Why do you think it has been so difficult for women to achieve equal status with men, even after thousands of years of humanity looking at this issue?

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  • mewabe

    The first cause would be brutality, violence, intimidation…this is how men have ruled over women, and still do in too many cases.

    Another cause is economic dependence.

    Another would be children, which also cause dependence.

    Religions defined women to be unequal…defining God to be male, etc…

    So the question is, what are men afraid of? That’s the core issue…what do they think they will loose if no longer keeping women down?

    Here we have to go deeper into the definitions of masculinity and femininity, most of which are totally artificial (cultural) and irrelevant, except for basic reproductive functions.

    It seems many men feel threatened when a woman’s actions cause their rigid definition of masculinity, of masculine roles, to become questionable.

    This is why, in my opinion, women will never be liberated from these form of oppression as long as men are not liberated, or do not liberate themselves, from obsolete gender roles and definitions.

    Both men and women need this form of liberation, so they can simply define themselves as being human, and while understanding that whether they have a vagina or a penis is only relevant in the bedroom and NOWHERE ELSE!

  • Judy

    I believe it stems from fear of the female by whatever men are in ‘control’.

  • Prachii

    Women are not unequal to men in any way. Men and women are simply different. Women in major parts of the world today still feel the barrier because they allow it to be important. There is a psychological reason behind this. They are conditioned by culture and society from the beginning to think along those lines. However, until and unless they do not collectively raise awareness and give prior importance to understanding themselves as individuals, they can never really feel equal. This requires breaking the pattern of society and raising societal consciousness towards the change. This can only happen when women move away from conformism and listen to their own consciousness for decision making. Until then there will only be examples around and not big change. For anything to become a living truth it has to be accepted unconditionally and for women to feel so, they have to accept themselves unconditionally as equal beings too.

  • mewabe

    Again we should not dismiss the fact their women’s (and girl’s) lives are threatened, whenever they attempt to claim their just place in society, in many parts of the world. Men have ruled over women through no less than TERROR in many cultures.

    Even in the US military, one in three women has been raped by fellow soldiers. Makes you wonder who the enemy actually is, doesn’t it?

    To make a difference check out
    http://www.care.org

  • mewabe

    So it would appear that it could all boil down to animal dominance…gender definitions being perhaps based on this kind of animal instinct. Although not all animal species have dominant males and submissive females, some have the opposite, some have equality.

    But for some reason, human males chose dominance…and still have not given up on it, attempting to dominate everything in sight still, and still obsessed with power.

    Even among some Native American tribes, having “the heart of a woman” was the greatest insult toward another male…when it should have been the greatest compliment!

    And here we can see that the problem is all encompassing, because it also means that most patriarchal cultures regard love to be inferior to power…love is the “preoccupation of the weak” (female or feminized), power the “pursuit of the strong” (male).

    We are not out of this mess yet! But to get quicker resolution, we have to connect the dots, see the bigger picture.

  • mewabe

    “When the power of love overcomes the love of power..the world will know peace”

    Jimi Hendrix

    Perhaps then, and only then, will women (and all beings) be liberated from the oppression caused by the pathology of dominant power.

  • rabbit

    It’s easier for to believe you are “right” than it is to listen. Since people have been taught women are lesser, conditioned by parents and society- isn’t it easier to dismiss what a woman might say? Especially if it’s scary when she seems to understand more? It takes strength to embody notions that are out of the norm. In the CWG material I think it’s mentioned to consider god as an equal. I wonder what might take place if a man considers himself possible to be equal to god-then considers a woman to be equal to him.
    Through a union which god saw fit in “designing” when creating humans the truth of it’s nature would surely be a good thing.

  • Kat

    Answer – one word > Religion

  • kat kenner

    I believe fear and fear of loss of change/loss of control are at play in this question. I was in an abusive marraige and subsequent bitter custody battle and during the last court hearing/trial, my ex-husband lost it on teh stand and verbally attacked me in court in front of the judge he was trying to convince that he was not volitile.
    It was on a a plane at 30,000 feet that I wondered what would make anyone act like that. Immediately my thought was “FEAR”. I realized down to my bones that for our entire marriage I had been stronger, smarter, more successful and in general, more well liked then my husband, and everytime I would acheive something good he would find reasons to attack either the achievement or me both emotionally and physically.
    He was threatened by me. I was never in competition with him, he only felt I was. Maybe throughout humanity, men have felt threatened by women and feel if we have genuine equality that they might not be needed or as successful when in fact the opposite can be true. We can make eachother so much more successful and strong as a people if we honor the others perspectives and challenges and boost each other up rather then tear one another down.

  • mewabe

    Kat I think that what you are describing is typical…and I think it goes to the very core of how men define their masculinity, or gender role (what I mean is that it goes beyond simple personal competitiveness).

    This is what must change…how men define themselves. Because as long as they feel that they must lead, that they must be the stronger partner, that they must make more money etc etc they will be threatened by women’s successes, and will do all they can to keep women down, so as to protect their male identity, which is a false identity as anyone should know by now.

    Unfortunately we still have a long way to go in this respect, but the world conditions will never improve as long as women are not freed from the tyranny of male insecurities. As long as men do not know who they really are, they will prevent women from expressing who they really are as well.

  • javier cervera

    There is another question here, Who rises men and woman? Mainly the mothers… so it is there where new education and awareness is needed, by doing this a new ground for an equal status can be archived, Blessings javier

  • Buzz

    It seems Mewabe is very passionate about this subject. I liked the response by Kat, and am able expand on it scientifically.
    Men and women are fundamentally different. I don’t mean just genitals. I’m talking about brain chemistry, which is responsible for behaviour at least in part. Nature and nurture. Neurologically, men have significantly higher levels of testosterone, and much less estrogen(sp?). These hormones can be traced back to before cave man days, when men would fight each other and compete with each other for who could return with the largest kill of meat. The woman or women partnered with the man who returned with the most food would live happier, healthier lives, and parent more children. This family dynamic continued from ape man times till only a few thousand years ago. Behaviour patterns are deeply entrenched in our psyche. This is why women feel jealous toward another women who has a more attractive mate. This is why man feels responsible for the safety of his mate, and the source of livelihood for the family, why he expects her to perform the functions of home and parenting. There is so much more built into our behaviour that comes from our ancestral lifestyle that I’m not mentioning.
    Our mission, you women need to hear this too, is to evolve and adapt beyond our old behaviour patterns just as WECCE by NDW asks. One way is to follow my example and move toward androgeny. Another is not to punish people for not understanding why their biology and behavioural patterns want then to behave one way when you ask them to behave different. In fact many people may think you’re the crazy one, whether they be male or female. It should be expected for us to take many many generations to alter our patterns, and that’s if we’re all working together. It will need to be trained out of newborn babies for 100+ years.

  • Your XL ansy sah

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  • Phoenix

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  • Buzz

    Wow! Everyone take a chill pill (metaphorically). Phoenix: please hold off on the tactical team of mercenaries hired to take out Your XL ansy sah. Thank you for defending me but it’s not necessary. I can handle what you consider to be abusive.
    Historically, when a tribe was threatened, the individuals put aside their petty differences and cooperated for the benefit of all. At first, some refused to believe the threat was real, and continued playing competitive games to impress women and hoard resources. Later, when the threat was more obvious, that person had become attached to all they had gained and refused to surrender it for the common good. That individual was typically either killed or banished into exile, without their possessions. This is now known as a mutiny, revolt, revolution or political upheaval. This has been penned into both the US constitution and declaration of independence: if something isn’t working, those with the ability to act have the responsibility to act (paraphrased). This all comes from our old cultural story. But why are people punished simply for not understanding?

    I think you may be onto something crucial Your XL ansy Sah. Can you tell us more about these resistance patterns to natural gender roles? We’re all here to gain understanding, to increase our awareness, to approach this rationally for everyone’s benefit as we watch the storm brewing around us. We see corporations crumbling into bankruptcy while the CEO runs to a non extradition country with pockets full of other people’s money. A similar thing seems to be happening with some local governments, some government organisations and departments, and some of the national governments of other countries. Sometimes the resistant persons are caught and publicly humiliated or worse. Their only mistake was ignorance. OK there was probably a lot of emotion there too, like fear mostly. Do they deserve death? Imprisonment? I don’t think so.

    What would you do if you got your hands on one of the Saudi Arabian suicide pilots that hijacked planes on 9/11, and you could do anything you wanted in a room with no cameras or witnesses while visiting Guantanamo Bay, Cuba? Would you be human? Would your answer be different if they were extremely abusive toward you, really passionately trying to get you to hate him as much as he hates you? Remember this forum is anonymous. Please be honest.

  • mewabe

    Suggested reading on the topic of the differences between male and female psyche (you will be very surprised, as it goes against what most think):

    THE NATURE OF THE PSYCHE
    Jane Roberts

    My own opinion: men and women do not come from different planets, as a popular and very unimaginative book, which is nothing but a compilation of cliches, suggests. It is true that each gender has developed roles and has identified with these roles for thousands of years (the hunter/warrior male and the nurturing female).

    But roles are changing…we are no longer hunting mammoths for dinner…time to develop new identities that are less fear and power based, and more UNIVERSALLY grounded in love.

  • mewabe

    Another point:

    No matter what we do in life, we need not identify with our very limited roles…
    Just as actors do not get confused to the point of totally becoming who they play after the act, but after leaving the stage remember who they are, if we were to all remember WHO WE ARE, social roles and functions would be understood to be just that, and not to define our true identity.

    THE SOUL IS NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE, OR IT IS BOTH. If we were to remember our soul, to dwell within our soul, we would not be so pathologically attached to the small self, to the ego-consciousness that defines itself through its actions within a cultural and social framework that does not necessarily reflect the soul’s reality.

    OUR SOUL’S ONLY NEED IS FREEDOM, of BEING and of EXPRESSION. Let’s look at our lives, our roles, our choices of identity, our gender’s definitions, and understand that ALL THAT OPPOSES FREEDOM OPPOSES THE SOUL.

    Consequently, it could be say that ALL THE OPPRESSES WOMEN OPPOSES HUMANITY’S SOUL. And men loose a great deal in the process as well…even though many are too blinded by delusions of power and control to understand it. But they cannot be fulfilled and free when women are not fulfilled and free. We can only BE together, in balance and complementarity.

    Why am I passionate about this? HOW COULD ANYONE NOT BE is the real question.

  • Your XL ansy sah

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  • mewabe

    Just so that you know I am male XL, but the difference is that I understand that hormones do not control who we are…who we are goes way beyond body chemistry.

    We should not confuse the physical brain and the mind, or the physical body and the soul. And you speak of tribes, but look at the animal kingdom: male dominance is far from being universal, and it is not unavoidable.

    What we call civilized society has taught people that resolving conflicts by smashing the head of an an adversary is no longer the thing to do, although you would say that hormones dictated this behavior. Although we still strangely do this in the case of war against other nations, it is no longer an accepted behavior among citizens of a same nation, and we more or less have it under control.

    Similarly, we can learn that keeping women behind and below in order to feel like proud male peacocks is no longer serving anyone if it ever did. It should not be so difficult to grasp this simple concept, and to behave accordingly. If we can figure how to travel in space, we should be able to restore the balance between female and male, in a foundation of freedom and equality.

    As a matter of fact I can predict that if we don’t, we will destroy all life on earth, because disrespecting women goes hand in hand with disrespecting all life, including the natural environment (or “mother earth”). Most people do not connect these dots, except Native Americans and other Indigenous people who understand balance.

    Since you assumed to speak for all men, I need to tell you that you are mistaken in this assumption. You do not speak for me. But you, and those who think similarly, may be missing a very important point: keeping women unhappy is not in your best interest as a male either, if you really seek a true, mutually fulfilling relationship on all level (even at the sexual level), rather than perpetuating these forms of dominance and oppression, which only produce very shallow relationships.

  • Buzz

    Mewabe: the time scale is hundreds of thousands of years, not just a few millennia. The rest I agree with though, even if you come across as angry at the world and everyone here for our past history and it’s incompatibility with modern society.
    Mr XL donkey droppings: this is a public anonymous forum. You couldn’t shut me up if you tried. I’m behind a LV casino grade firewall. Better than military. And I have a highly destructive spike program ready for any hackers to try me. Everyone else needn’t worry, defensive measures only.
    Your logic is slightly flawed. Religion is the practice of ritualizing spiritual practice. If psychoneuroimmunology can be adapted to alter brain chemistry, and implemented through idealistic spiritual practice to suppress testosterone production in the hypothalamus, it wouldn’t necessarily lead to more female traits, just less aggressive and dominating tendencies. Men would still be assertive, analytical, logical and possess natural leadership traits like oration and rhetoric. Everyone wins. Consider how this plays out in The Palestine Prophesy by James Redfield, around the 4th and 5th insights I think. Also available in film format. Please consider.

  • Your XL ansy sah

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  • mewabe

    XL, I do not have a position within the feminist movement, anymore than you have a position within the male chauvinist porcine community…let’s keep old labels out of this.

    I was speaking of what we generally agree are “civilized” nations, not third world nations that, culturally, may still in the dark ages. In a civilized nation, hacking your neighbor to pieces for any reason is no longer the norm, even though you would argue that male hormones would be the culprit, and that hundreds of thousands of such behavior should make change nearly impossible. However we did change in regard to this specific problem.

    Whether conditional love can be achieved or not has nothing to do with gender equality. But I do feel very sorry for you if you do not think a balanced, mutually fulfilling relationship can be achieved between a woman and a man.

    Buzz, I am not angry towards anyone, I just get straight to the point…I see no need to speak in flowery language about atrocious situations.

    I have said enough, I have stated my opinion, I have no desire to engage any further in a debate. Thank you for sharing your ideas…

  • mewabe

    I meant to write: hundreds of thousands of years of such behavior should make change nearly impossible.

  • Your XL ansy sah

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  • Buzz

    Plz don’t leave Mewabe,
    This is a place for conversation, as in dialectic. If everybody thought the same way we’d get tired of talking to each other. Neale set this place up for a meeting of minds. Nothing will be achieved if you and others leave as soon as you realise somebody has a different opinion. Shock horror, we are diverse. Who could’ve guessed?

    Plz come back.

  • mewabe

    Thanks Buzz I am back but I have to work on deadlines, so very quickly:

    I am not betraying myself or my “kind” XL…my kind does not look at gender equality as an ideological or political issue, but a spiritual and human issue. We should even have this debate in the 21th century.

    But let me ask you XL: what do you think you will loose if honoring a woman as an equal? What will you loose if a woman leads? What will you loose if a woman is more successful than you? What is it about the traditional male role that you think you cannot let go without feeling less?

    Are you afraid of being no longer needed by a woman? Or are you under pressure from other males, and thinking that anything that even remotely resemble respecting women will make you look “gay”?

  • Your XL ansy sah

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  • Your XL ansy sah

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  • Buzz

    OMG I’m beginning to see your point of view Your XL ancy sah, and I’ve gotta say I don’t know how to respond to the second part (you forgot to insert the number 2). The first part is all fear, as in paranoid and completely irrational. The second part is a foreign concept, and I need time to consider it carefully. Thanks

  • mewabe

    XL, women do not just feel victimized, they are victimized. From rapes to beatings to killings, on one end of the spectrum, to being kept out of social roles traditionally reserved for men, being considered less capable, be denied education opportunities, voting rights, etc.

    Your comment contains many cliches about women using “manipulation” to get their way, etc…I cannot address these points. These are not valid arguments.

    No one has to loose anything in equality, that’s what equality implies. But you did answer my question, you are expressing the fact that you fear that men will be living under women’s rules. You appear to look at the situation as being a competition for dominance, and you think women want to dominate you.

    No one has to dominate in a spiritual world. A spiritual world is not founded on dominant power but on a cooperation based on respect and equality. Both genders have something valuable to contribute, but in equality and cooperation, not in inequality and competition.

    It may take a while to get there, but it will greatly speed things up if we all start considering new possibilities, rather than hanging on to an obsolete paradigm. Could you possibly look at this and think that equality has merit? Why would you want to defend a Neanderthal lifestyle?

  • Buzz

    Sorry XL. I’m with Mewabe on this. Its not about keeping the game fair, and who’s rules the game is played by. The entire win-lose paradigm is archaic. Its about throwing out the old game and most of the old rules. It’s about applying the Covey Habits of interdependency, and the CwG teachings, like from book 3 about HEBs.
    We are all one, there’s enough, and there’s nothing we have to do!

  • Your XL ansy sah

    (The Global Conversation invites and values the contributions of anyone who feels moved to express thoughts and opinions, share observations, and engage in meaningful dialogue on our website. If you feel you need to do so anonymously, we respect that. However, posting under multiple user names in an effort to mislead others about who is doing the posting undermines the authenticity of our relationship with each other on this site, and inhibits a mutually beneficial exchange. The editing department of this newspaper will therefore promptly remove all posts that are designed to intentionally misinform or deceive whenever they are discovered. If you observe such deception, please inform us with a note to Lisa@TheGlobalConversation.com)

  • Buzz

    Cmon guys,
    This is hardly fair on me and other people with a strong sense of empathy.

    This is so Damn confusing I’m back on the fence again, except this time with a headache.

    You’re both advocating mitigation, and we can’t have it both ways.

    Mewabe is trying to mitigate the abusive behaviour people commit, mostly men abusing women.

    Your XL ansy sah is advocating mitigation of the sense of urgency that feminists feel toward efforts to alter behaviour, claiming the added stress of trying to force positive change is actually damaging us, and perhaps even delaying the evolutionary process.

    Time on this fence is starting to hurt my backside. Any suggestions?

  • Your XL ansy sah

    (The Global Conversation invites and values the contributions of anyone who feels moved to express thoughts and opinions, share observations, and engage in meaningful dialogue on our website. If you feel you need to do so anonymously, we respect that. However, posting under multiple user names in an effort to mislead others about who is doing the posting undermines the authenticity of our relationship with each other on this site, and inhibits a mutually beneficial exchange. The editing department of this newspaper will therefore promptly remove all posts that are designed to intentionally misinform or deceive whenever they are discovered. If you observe such deception, please inform us with a note to Lisa@TheGlobalConversation.com)

  • Buzz

    How curious,
    It occurs to me that stereotypical men can’t be happy with either of the two paradigms you guys propose. Explains why I’m on the fence…  

    If we resist our biologically natural impulses and be cooperative and nurturing, we get stressed out by acting unnaturally.  

    If we resist modern civilization’s urgency to adapt instinctive behaviour, we are ostracized as chauvanistic, or worse as criminals, unsafe to participate in human interactivity.  

    It seems to me the reason for this conflict originates in the common factor that both strategies are resistance based, and are therefore counter intuitive applications of The Law Of Attraction.

    There must be a third option!

  • mewabe

    The markedly different gender characteristics that we can see expressed in barbie dolls and GI joes, and that some people try to strangely emulate, becoming grotesque caricatures of femininity and masculinity, are nothing more than cultural artifacts. They are not physiological, not dictated by nature, but by society’s evolution.

    Women are perfectly capable of being aggressive, and men are perfectly capable of being nurturing. The fact that men are stronger for example would mean very little in a physical fight, as women, being generally lighter, are faster. You may not know that the first forms of martial art in the orient were initiated, created by women.

    Apart from reproduction, differences in gender behaviors are choices, not dictated by nature. These choices were made by humanity at a time when mammoths were on the menu. And even then, women were probably quite capable of fighting and hunting. Native American women fought fiercely in battle when their camp was attacked by an enemy tribe, and Native American men thought nothing of killing them in self defense.

    Any choice can be changed. The idea that you would be going against nature is not based on facts, it is part of cultural myths upon which the idea of exaggerated differences between men and women is based. Mostly, the resistance originates not from actual psychological differences, but from having acquired an artificial identity and clinging to it.

    Men like you, XL, resist change not because nature won’t let you change but because anything that questions your artificial male identity makes you feel very insecure. You would not feel so insecure if you could see yourself primarily as a human being and a spiritual being who happens to be male. You may then see that you have a lot more in common with women, and women have a lot more in common with your gender, than cultural myths make you believe.

    The equality of genders can be argued against, just as someone could argue against the existence of gravity…pretending it does not exist. Equality between women and men is a given, it is a fact that no amount of denial can suppress, except through physical threats and oppression.

    IT IS PRECISELY BECAUSE EQUALITY BETWEEN WOMEN AND MEN IS AN IRREFUTABLE FACT THAT THE ONLY WAY IT CAN BE DENIED IS THROUGH THREATS, VIOLENCE AND OPPRESSION. Think about this for a while. The truth is irrepressible, like sunlight, it can only be denied through an effort, through a struggle to suppress, to oppress, and in the case of women it has historically been done through violence.

  • Buzz

    Hello Mewabe,
    I have done some study into this subject in the past. I remember no empirical studies showing brain chemistry and DNA memory have no influence on gender roles.

    Your entire last post is based entirely on the first paragraph: ” The markedly different gender characteristics … are not physiological, not dictated by nature, but by society’s evolution.” Can you please provide a scientific or medical website reference to support this statement?

    Is it possible gender roles are a combination of nature and nurture, biological and cultural?

  • mewabe

    Buzz, the problem with science is in its exclusively materialistic approach. For example, science postulates that consciousness is the product of the physical brain. According to science the physical brain came first, and created consciousness.

    My version of reality is the opposite, and closer to far eastern spiritual traditions: consciousness is the root and the ground of the physical world. The physical body is an expression and three dimensional manifestation of consciousness or the soul. The soul makes the decisions, not the physical. For example, we decide when, where, how to be born, we decide when and how to die, at the soul level.

    Consequently, the way I see it, if some differences exist in the wiring of the physical brain between women and men, these differences came as physical adaptations to decisions undertaken by the collective human psyche. It was a choice, not an obligation dictated by the physical.

    However some choose to live as if the physical ruled their lives and all life, as if they had no soul freedom or soul power. In their world, restrictions abound. It is a matter of choice, I prefer freedom and creativity.

  • mewabe

    Buzz, you may be interested by the book The Nature of the Psyche by Jane Roberts…it is a small book, a fast read, very interesting in my opinion.

  • Buzz

    You’ve made reference to that book before, but neglected to explain the reason for the recommendation. At this point in our conversation I’m not prepared to pay for information that would take me into a bookshop to attain, with questionable accuracy, that I can easily get instantly and free online.

  • Buzz

    You seem to have very little faith in the same scientific sceptical attitudes that first challenged the church’s power over the minds of people, and the same empirical medical understanding that knows that strokes and heart attacks are both caused by blood clots.

    So perhaps 200 millennia of repeatedly making similar choices has created biological reinforcements of those choices like instincts and hormones. And perhaps resistance of these bio feedback feelings does create additional psychological stress. Can you accept the possibility there is something you don’t know, the knowing of which could change everything? I know for sure this conversation has put everything I thought I knew into question, yet for some reason both you guys seem to get agitated when confronted with information that seems impossible to your view of reality. How will you behave when forced to choose between your beliefs and your life?

  • Your XL ansy sah

    (The Global Conversation invites and values the contributions of anyone who feels moved to express thoughts and opinions, share observations, and engage in meaningful dialogue on our website. If you feel you need to do so anonymously, we respect that. However, posting under multiple user names in an effort to mislead others about who is doing the posting undermines the authenticity of our relationship with each other on this site, and inhibits a mutually beneficial exchange. The editing department of this newspaper will therefore promptly remove all posts that are designed to intentionally misinform or deceive whenever they are discovered. If you observe such deception, please inform us with a note to Lisa@TheGlobalConversation.com)

  • Your XL ansy sah

    (The Global Conversation invites and values the contributions of anyone who feels moved to express thoughts and opinions, share observations, and engage in meaningful dialogue on our website. If you feel you need to do so anonymously, we respect that. However, posting under multiple user names in an effort to mislead others about who is doing the posting undermines the authenticity of our relationship with each other on this site, and inhibits a mutually beneficial exchange. The editing department of this newspaper will therefore promptly remove all posts that are designed to intentionally misinform or deceive whenever they are discovered. If you observe such deception, please inform us with a note to Lisa@TheGlobalConversation.com)

  • mewabe

    I find it surprising that no woman is participating here, although women may have much more interesting things to say about this topic.

    Buzz, I do not get agitated, I just express myself directly and without artifice…and what is “information” but a subjective interpretation of reality?
    A fly, a bat, and a human get different kinds of information about their environment…they may as well live in three different worlds.

    People make choices…my choice to live at the soul level fits my life perfectly, like a glove.

    It was necessary for science to question religious dogma, but science went too far into materialism, dismissing all spirituality. In other words it threw the baby out with the bathwater, creating a very limited version of reality, one in which we are all “products” (of the environment, ruled by our hormones, love is nothing but a chemical reaction in the brain, etc etc) and have almost no individual power.

  • mewabe

    XL, respect is not earned, anymore than love.
    When you understand the divinity of all beings, you know that respect is unconditional.

    You seem to be really stuck in the old paradigm…

  • Buzz

    I find it surprising how few people there are using any part of the CwG portal network. We should be thankful there are no women here. As naturally expressive and emotional beings assubject like this could send a woman into blind rage at anyone that questions their nature logically. As always, there are exceptions.
    Do you realise Mewabe that when you put caps lock on for a sentence you are indicating to readers you are yelling, deliberately and aggressively. Look up writing etiquette standards with Google if you want to know more. By that standard you’ve screamed at everyone who reads this a few posts ago regarding violence.
    Science did not go too far into materialism. Science by definition seeks empirical data for accuracy and reliability purposes. Spirituality is more fluidic and adaptive to popular understanding. Things are just now starting to come together in areas like quantum physics and theoretical physics, which are based on math rather than traditional scientific observation. Therefore, while all observations and scientific methods are subjective relative to the absolute knowing of God, it is much harder to argue against gravity than Santa Clause. Your argument about which came first, consciousness or physical brain, has not been decided or proven either way by modern science as far as I know. Do you have any website references to support this claim? What modern medicine does understand very well is the human body: that is the subject it defines itself by. Hospitals and doctors all over this planet use this scholarly information as reliably as the scalpel in hand, operating under one oath: First, do no harm. It’s a few pages long, but that’s the core point. So we’ve been studying ourselves and each other since time began, and we trust them with our lives. They’ve earned the right to say that male hormones make people aggressive, etc, and I respect their opinion. Will you consider accepting that hormones contribute to cultural influences in nudging people into gender roles, that these hormones are biological and natural, and that resisting the urge to behave according to hormonal impulses can be extremely difficult for many people? Still don’t agree? Ask yourself, ever tried talking rationally and logically to a woman going through a bad case of PMS, or either gender experiencing extreme lust and horniness (not just toward you, infact your observational skills and memory might be clearer of a friend lusting after someone attractive walking past)? Brain chemistry does influence priorities, options, choices and values. If you want even more evidence, buy HRT drugs (testosterone) and experiment on yourself.

  • Buzz

    Remember, I said it was a combination of nature and nurture in the first few sentences of my first post in this thread. Cultural stories have played a part, yes. Hormones are significantly involved too!!!

  • Your XL ansy sah

    (The Global Conversation invites and values the contributions of anyone who feels moved to express thoughts and opinions, share observations, and engage in meaningful dialogue on our website. If you feel you need to do so anonymously, we respect that. However, posting under multiple user names in an effort to mislead others about who is doing the posting undermines the authenticity of our relationship with each other on this site, and inhibits a mutually beneficial exchange. The editing department of this newspaper will therefore promptly remove all posts that are designed to intentionally misinform or deceive whenever they are discovered. If you observe such deception, please inform us with a note to Lisa@TheGlobalConversation.com)

  • Your XL ansy sah

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  • Buzz

    Yay. I get to be post # 50. Oh how shallow we can be LOL

  • mewabe

    Are you trying to win a debate or are you exchanging ideas?

    I have no interest in the first, and I have already express enough on this topic…Our understandings of reality are obviously very different, and we could go on forever pointing out how different they are in so many ways.

    To simplify, I believe the power of consciousness is greater than the power of hormones…and old men, whose hormone productions are way down, are just as sexist or even more so than young men in some cultures…so the hormone excuse doesn’t fly. It is all about beliefs, a choice of beliefs, not hormones.

    You both have strange views on women…I can’t relate to your views.

    XL, when did I say that I had no respect for you? If I had no respect for you, you would have known it, it would have been expressed very directly and succinctly. No…I think you are witty, and quick. You are both intelligent…It’s been fun.

    Okay, I did not realize I was “yelling”…from now on I will no longer use capital letters. I only did it for clarity’s sake, to underline points that seemed important to me.

    Funny how perception works…

  • Your XL ansy sah

    (The Global Conversation invites and values the contributions of anyone who feels moved to express thoughts and opinions, share observations, and engage in meaningful dialogue on our website. If you feel you need to do so anonymously, we respect that. However, posting under multiple user names in an effort to mislead others about who is doing the posting undermines the authenticity of our relationship with each other on this site, and inhibits a mutually beneficial exchange. The editing department of this newspaper will therefore promptly remove all posts that are designed to intentionally misinform or deceive whenever they are discovered. If you observe such deception, please inform us with a note to Lisa@TheGlobalConversation.com)

  • Buzz

    Thx Your XL ansy sah. Nice to have my manners noticed.

    Mewabe,
    As far as I’m concerned we’re still in dialectic. I have demonstrated willingness to consider alternative views. You seem stubborn, obviously fostering an opinion that we are debating.. I have noticed for quite some time now your tendency to preach without listening. Clearly you would prefer to terminate this exchange and return to your status quo comfort zone.

    Cya round
    PS this thread is about to be terminated by moderator soon anyway, so no guilt trip. Just my appreciation and gratitude for participation by all. 🙂

  • Judy

    The posts from Mewabe, Buzz, and Your XL ansy sah all have some valid points. Maybe we just change our perspective to that of the woman balancing the man as opposed to being equal to? We all have many attributes that we bring to the table.

  • Jae

    The only reason there isn’t equality or equal opportunity for all people is because all humans do not see themselves in others. Instead they see themselves as separate. If everyone saw themselves as part of the human family and realized that we are all one, they would love one another and wouldn’t oppress ANYONE. At the core of this is the fact that the majority of humans haven’t awakened spiritually and realized their true selves and this oneness.

  • Brian Steere

    The neglect of and disregard for the honoring of Life as the root of our personal and relational culture allows every kind of false or faithless thinking to enter and grow in our mind. With every loveless wish, a false promise of personal power becomes the forgetting of the power that is truly shared.

    Our status or worth then becomes a matter of contest rather than revealed in true relationship and shared purpose. And relationships become a means to get from rather than awaken through.

    The perspective that one views with, delivers the results that are experienced.
    Such perspectives are largely invisible, in that we do not realize our mind and culture is creating the ‘world as we experience it’.

    The desire to achieve can indicate tares and wheat, for the desire to know and be known truly, is the Purpose of Being Itself – for such is the nature of love. In this desire we stand in and join with the Movement of Being – even if apparently outnumbered. But in reactive and vengeful search for justice, our personal status becomes justified and identified in victimhood, which gives its power to the aspects of its mind which it disowns and projects upon the world – and sees in others.

    Status can be like wealth. If we agree to define wealth in material terms alone, then we can identify with poverty and feel victim amidst a great abundance of Life.

    As a man or woman thinketh in their heart – so are they. To wake up to the power of this is to awaken to a joined or communioned being – whose nature is of a unified perspective and whose willingness is to see the presence of love in others (and the world) and to be the presence of love for others (and for the world).

    The attempt to substitute for love with personal power has both feminine and masculine liability! And the wreckage of the attempt to use power or love as coercive intent has reflected a breakdown of heart and mind.

    The willingness to extend a presently felt movement of relational honesty that arises only from being undefended to our own awareness -which is beyond our control – is the extension of trust and the foundation of true sanity. Such a quality guides and supports more than an equality of status, it reveals a oneness of Source, nature and condition.

    The attempt to think ‘answers’ is only helpful if it brings us to a greater honesty of listening beyond thinking. For the thinking of a self-strategic protection has become disconnected from Truth and is merely expressing fear – whether with force or with guile.

    Thousands of years might ripen the insanely complex deceptions of the mind to bring its foundations up to the surface to be reevaluated instead of hidden.

    Why is it so difficult to question or inquire as to the true nature of the experience of a human life and world? Because the distractions of the human experience are compelling, complex and designed to keep unwanted awareness at bay!

    Now I might have asked the question the other way round; ” why has it been so difficult for men to achieve equal status with women? – etc”.
    Because there is in the feminine, that capacity to yield and embrace, that the masculine is lost without. For the power of extension is not independent except in fantasy. Unless we yield to Life, then the Movement of the Qualities of Life will not be embodied in our thought or relationships.

    To see the Life in each other takes a real willingness to disinvest of the games of power that we are all unconsciously inheritors and co-creators of.

    Any attempt to fix the problem in terms of the problem will tend to reinforce the reality of the problem. Ultimately the problem is always a failure of communication; first within ourselves and then reflecting in our relationships and world.

    To be restored to full communication is to be restored to a shared innocence and creativity of being that harmonizes without using power. This is a practical guidance within the entangled and complex web of conditioning and triggers that so easily shuts down any real communication from even beginning.

    We are called to be still of our own thinking and listen in trust and desire for the movement of awareness that rises beneath the machinations of a mind of defense.

    In Peace
    Brian

  • mewabe

    It looks like humanity may have a few thousand more years to go! As this pace, animals will soon be more evolved than we are.

  • Buzz

    Actually there are many species of animal alive today that behave more cooperatively and rationally than humans, use a higher percentage of their brain matter on average (most necessarily smarter, just more evolved), and accept their competitive nature without getting neurotic and emotional about fairness. Some examples of these animals that have surpassed us are the squid/ octopus family, the dolphin / porpoise / seal family, the crow / raven family, the bonobo / oranutan family, the parrot / cockatoo family, and before you say it these organisms have shown some indications of emotion through otherwise unnecessary actions and expressions.

  • Buzz

    I really like this new guy Brian Steere. Very clever and well articulated rational points. I reckon I might even pay to see him go toe to toe with Your XL ansy sah, if such a show down were available.

  • Annette

    NO NO NO NO NO..CAN I BE ANY CLEARER NO

  • Your XL ansy sah

    (The Global Conversation invites and values the contributions of anyone who feels moved to express thoughts and opinions, share observations, and engage in meaningful dialogue on our website. If you feel you need to do so anonymously, we respect that. However, posting under multiple user names in an effort to mislead others about who is doing the posting undermines the authenticity of our relationship with each other on this site, and inhibits a mutually beneficial exchange. The editing department of this newspaper will therefore promptly remove all posts that are designed to intentionally misinform or deceive whenever they are discovered. If you observe such deception, please inform us with a note to Lisa@TheGlobalConversation.com)

  • Buzz

    I can’t prove it. Neither can NDW. In fact he has stated in many of his publications that personal wealth and personal power are important and necessary in the New Cultural Story. Neither he nor I advocate communism, or to make any aspect of human existence an absolute truth like those on here talking about unconditional love / respect.

    Thing is … I still don’t have a realistic third option. How can we hope to balance women seeking equal status and opportunity with men progressively losing all the characteristics that define masculinity, most significantly our healthy ego identification of being physically stronger than women and our hormonal instinct to display our physical superiority?

    If displaying male strength is abusive to women, then restricting men’s right to display physical superiority is an abuse on men, and efforts to make physical strength seem undesirable and/or irrelevant will result in more dramatic demonstrations by men trying to prove otherwise.

    Finally, stereotypical women are hormonally attracted to men who show their physical strength, and most like things a little rough occasionally. Some like it a lot more than rough more than occasionally.

    I support The New Cultural Story, and some of the ideas proposed by the Feminist Movement, but it is doomed to fail while supported and run by vigilante attitudes looking for equality, and end to abuse and other fairy tale outcomes from the book of impossible dreams.

  • Buzz

    What if we used a different word with less social stigma attached, and is more accurate to its definition. Old Cultural Story terms like gender equality (impossible), women’s rights (sexist),,, and mutual respect (the closest accurate concept we have, but never caught on) haven’t worked.
    User Judy mentioned things could be balanced instead of equal. What if we together coined the popular use of “balanced gender esteem”, or do you think it would fizzle faster than mutual respect did for being too politically correct? And what’s the problem with being PC anyway?

  • Buzz

    FYI this thread has about 24 hours to live

  • mewabe

    XL, we can all see how the patriarchs who have led the world so far have been so logical and rational…spoiling the bed in which they lay (Polluting, poisoning the global environment), cutting the very tree branch upon which they sit (exhausting natural resources), and allocating endless, vast financial resources and great scientific talent to ever more destruction (endless wars, endless new weapons development and manufacturing in order to wage more endless wars).

    Yes, we can all see how male competition is so preferable to female cooperation…especially if the plan is for humanity to totally self destruct!

    If that’s male rationality, I will take what you call female irrationality any day or night, thank you!

    As for the more personal parts of your comment, you are so transparent and predicable XL…you are actually very amusing.

  • LittleMissUppity

    The simple answer to the question is ‘reproduction.’

    The state of pregnancy is one of high physical risk. The state of potential pregnancy is as well. They invite threats of death by various routes including physical force (human and animal), disease, bleeding out, and other medical complications.

    Maybe we can make (more enlightened) decisions about how to behave AROUND it. Maybe we can make comments about the decisions historical cultures and present societies have made around it. But the base of it all is female fertility.

  • If status is determined by society, it will not be equal – even if a
    densely applied system of rules is called upon to enforce it – because
    one doesn’t need force for what is already true. The attempt to make
    true in opposition to untruth must render both meaningless.

    True worth has to be uncovered or revealed as inherent to our very being – regardless of anything about us.

    Cultural
    rigidities arise from losing the meaning in which forms or ideas
    originally arise and identifying with them as an assertion of a personal
    self interest.

    I would expect a more meaningful exchange to
    occur by considering and feeling the feminine and masculine qualities of
    life – which are at root expressions of an indivisible wholeness –
    rather than gender and cultural issues – which are complex and often
    emotionally charged (and I include the emotionally cut off as itself an
    emotional strategy).

    The regeneration and healing of society
    comes from the healing and regeneration of our minds. The
    identifications and narratives that we dramatize may seem certainties to
    us, from which we feel to act out from as is self evident, but these
    all mesh together as a sort of game of avoidance.

    So it is that
    there is a sort of overlay or virtual reality of self image and relative
    status in which guilt is projected or displaced outside the seemingly
    private mind. This is not Life – but it is what passes muster as life in
    all who are confused about their essential and shared worth.

    Honouring
    Life is different from using or exploiting life. Honouring another with
    our honest presence is an expression of integrity that we do not make
    or earn – but which calls us to become true-hearted.

    But until
    the addictions of a self gratifying exploitation of relationships wear
    out, there is no one listening to the heart’s wisdom – which is simply
    available to the calm trust and desire to listen.

    The attempt to
    resolve our personal and cultural issues ‘out there’ perpetuates them.
    When we open to a greater perspective, it extends to our world of itself
    and in its own way. The attempt to make Life fit our whim is an
    arrogance and a folly.

    The saying, ‘God is no respecter of persons’ could be said; ‘Life is no respecter of status’.
    Seeking
    the outer as a mask cannot fill the hole. Be the qualities of Life by
    refusing to cultivate or deal in the qualities that undermine it. I mean
    – start where we are – in our now.

    The manipulative mind is
    artful in getting one to rise to the bait of reaction – AND of
    displacing the guilt onto scapegoats. It is a mask and not true
    presence.

    You are Life – what more could you be?
    In a sense of
    incompleteness we seek to add to ourselves – but have we deeply and
    truly checked in beneath all these thoughts that essentially run our
    lives in our own name?

    Without true desire for sanity and health
    of wholeness of being – the ‘war’ continues; the innocence is sacrificed
    to ignorance in which loving to hate, and hating to love, enslaves us
    both women and men in a failure to communicate Life.

  • Hello. I just came by when checking a bookmark – and wrote a comment that is of course the same thing expressed slightly differently to 6mnths ago.

    I feel all the comments serve a willingness to listen – which is a feminine quality. From a true listening can come a speaking that is more of a witness than an opinion, more of a sharing in willingness and desire to learn than a presumption to know or to teach anyone else anything – and such a movement is a going forth and multiplying of what is conceived. The trust and courage to embody or express such a movement being a masculine quality. We all have both and yet often have disconnect between ‘head and heart’.

    The ‘showdown’ is the entertainment derived from the dynamic of conflict. One doesn’t have to make war to nurture it! The competitive engagement can be brought into an honouring rather than an identification with ‘winning and losing’.

    “Give your best game and honour your ‘opponent’. Shine the spirit instead of trying to be special. This embraces the forms in a way that transcends the ego. However, there is a saying that the way to ‘win’ is to not enter the game in the first place.

    If we identify our own shadow then we can only have gratitude for the one who brought us the opportunity for a deeper integration – because without them, it would stay locked out and sabotaging or haunting our life unrecognised.

    It is good to become free of hate – but it is not easy when it is hidden in the world and seemingly so justified. Judgement is a very dangerous engagement, because it cuts the one who wields it, always. Thus we hold pain to our heart and call it love. Yet sacrifice love to the call for vengeance in the name of justice.