CONGRESSMAN SAID THERE’S NEVER
MEDICAL REASON FOR ABORTION

The GOP is in trouble again. Republican Congressmen Joe Walsh, representing Illinois’ 8th District, declared last Thursday night that there is never a single instance when there is a medical necessity to use abortion to save a woman’s life.

The congressman’s remark came in a televised debate against his Democrat opponent, Tammy Duckworth, and was reported by writers Bob Secter and Deborah L. Shelton in a copyrighted stored in the Chicago Tribune.

The Tribune article was picked up and widely distributed by the Washington Bureau of McClatchy News Service and can be found here.

Asked about the statement after the debate, Mr. Walsh stood by his assertion in his response to reporters. “With modern technology and science, you can’t find one instance” in which an abortion would be needed to save the life of a mother, the Republican said.

The Tribune story said that “medical experts sought to refute Walsh’s initial claim,” the newspaper reporting that “The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists said 600 women die annually in the U.S. from pregnancy and child-birth related causes.”

By the day after the debate, Mr. Walsh was retreating from his first remarks made both during the debate and afterward, the Tribune story said. “Those comments had created a firestorm,” the Tribune article said, and the paper reported that Mr. Walsh, who the newspaper described as “a tea party icon,” was “in damage control mode.”

“At a hastily-called news conference, the rookie congressman backed off that sweeping assertion, slightly, acknowledging ‘very rare circumstances’ where life-saving abortions might be required,” the Tribune story said.

The Chicago newspaper continued its report by quoting Dr. Erika Levi, an obstetrician-gynecologist at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. The Tribune story said that, according to Dr. Levi, life-threatening medical conditions that can lead to terminating a pregnancy include infections of the uterus or the amniotic sac surrounding the fetus, some heart conditions, and pre-eclampsia, a rapid rise in blood pressure that occurs during pregnancy and in the period right afterward.

“All of these conditions can occur throughout the pregnancy,” the Tribune quoted Dr. Levi as continuing. “If these conditions occur prior to viability (of the fetus) then, at that point, abortion can become the only option to save the life of the mother.”

The Tribune story also quoted Dr. David Grimes, a clinical professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine, who, the paper said, “added others to the list, including complications of diabetes, pulmonary hypertension, and cancer, which he said sometimes can require termination of the pregnancy before treatment can proceed. Cases severe enough to require abortions are rare, Grimes said, adding that he nonetheless sees several a year.”

The paper said that “Grimes took issue with anti-abortion politicians, Walsh included, who view ‘women as some kind of Tupperware container that holds the fetus for nine months’.”

“I am flabbergasted that he is that out of touch with science,” the Tribune quoted Walsh’s opponent, Ms. Duckworth, as saying. The Democrat supports abortion rights, the paper said.

Rep. Walsh’s comments drew rapid comparison with the now widely repeated statements by Republican Congressman Todd Akin of Missouri, who is in a race against Democratic incumbent Claire McCaskill for a seat in the United States Senate. Mr. Akin, like Mr. Walsh a staunch opponent of abortion, proclaimed that a woman’s body would automatically stop her from becoming pregnant in a case of “legitimate rape.” The statement outraged both men and women inside and outside the political arena, and caused Akin to immediately lose funding and support.

The ongoing statements from both Republicans, and other members of the GOP across the nation, on the abortion issue have led to stern words of protest from women across America, and have caused considerable trouble with the female voting block for GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney. Mr. Romney has sought to distance himself from extremists within his party by announcing repeatedly that his own opposition to abortion includes exceptions in the case of rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother.

GOP Congressman Walsh’s first statement that modern medical science has completely eliminated the last-case scenario, and his follow-up retreat that such a circumstance was, in fact, possible, but would be “very rare,” could be bringing a bit of election angst to Romney campaign headquarters, and to that of other Republican candidates for lower public office throughout the nation.

The issue has become a political hot potato in the 2012 campaign season, as both citizens and their political leaders struggle to find a place for government, if any, in the highly personal circumstance of a woman facing the question of whether to have an abortion. There are those who argue that the decision is a matter of women’s rights, while others declare that abortion is akin to murder and should be made illegal in all cases by the government.

Mr. Romney has flatly declared that if elected he will push to eliminate all funding for Planned Parenthood, and has indicated as well that he would appoint pro-life justices to the U.S. Supreme Court. Such a move, observers say, would no doubt tip the delicate judicial balance that has kept intake the Roe v Wade decision, which is the landmark Supreme Court case which struck down many state laws restricting abortion.

Women, and those men who support women’s right to an abortion and their right to make that decision without government interference, fear that should Mr. Romney be elected president, Roe v Wade will be overturned with his appointees in place.

Looking at how the New Spirituality might be overlaid on this issue, it is noted that Conversations with God says that freedom is a perfect description of the nature of Divinity. In a perfect society of highly evolved beings, CWG says, there would be no laws of any kind, and all behavior would be regulated individually by each member of such a society, automatically and without requirement bringing them into harmony with, and awareness of, the highest good of all concerned.

The question for our Earthly society in the 21st Century becomes: To what degree is humanity ready and able to live with such freedom? Business owners, for instance, want freedom from government regulation, while at the same time many of them want government to regulate what a woman may legally decide about her own body. Human society is still trying to work out the contradictions.

And your thoughts?

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  • karen

    Why the big fuss on whether he said this or not, or whether it is true? The statement caused a strong reaction because the inference is clear: he is against abortion. He might do better by simply stating his position clearly rather than clouding things with meaningless statements. Dying from childbirth is much less likely to occur today. This is not the basis for most abortions anyhow and we all know it. Get to the real issue, make a choice on the matter, and let us preserve our right to be able to make choices , period.

  • CMD

    In that scenario, my freedom would include not paying, in any way shape or form, for the killing of the unborn. Then it is no longer my business, it’s between the woman and her Creator. But as long as my taxes are paying for it, I have a right to sound off about it.
    I am working diligently to establish ‘other choices’ for girls/women, so that they will have the option to go through the pregnancy, have the baby, and not be immediately forced to make a life changing decision as to whether or not they want to adopt it out.
    Many women working with me on this – who are extremely supportive of the idea – have themselves had abortions. That decision, years later, continues to ache in their hearts. They tell me they wish the options I’m proposing would have been available for them at their time of crisis.
    I’m in prayer about it.

  • Frank

    Freedom IS contradictory in how it is realized by it’s participants. The role of government is to provide a safe arena in which to experience it. Abortion is a highly charged issue. Opposite views are justifiable depending on one’s perspective. Government’s role, at this time, is to allow the debate. Public funds should not be involved. Freedom requires responsibility for your choices. Having a child is the parents responsibility. Not having one should also be. The need for legislation only points out the need for enlightenment.

    Love Always

    FSP

  • mewabe

    It should be noted that Republicans always talk about freedom and small government, and no government interference with individual rights, except when it comes to abortion, contraception, gay marriages, and of course the creation of the largest controlling bureaucracy in decades under GW Bush, Homeland Security.

  • Carol Skelton

    It bothers me that some of people who don’t want you to take their guns away that are used to kill do not want a woman to be able to choose to have an abortion?!? I guess they believe that others can’t be trusted but they should be trusted. I guess they believe only they should have the right to choose.

  • Gabriella

    I agree with CWG. No individual or state should be given the power to regulate what is right and good for another individual’s health care. All procedures performed by a medical team in a hospital are done with the patient’s consent. At this present time, the state and the courts have no authority over medical decisions. Do we want to change that?

  • mewabe

    I cannot understand the objection Republicans have against paying to “kill for the unborn” in the form of abortions, when they seem to have absolutely no objection supporting the killing of children in distant lands in the form of sanctions (such the sanctions against Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of children under Clinton) or paying for war (has anyone seen pictures of the effects of depleted uranium on newly born Iraqi children? Not pretty…)

  • mewabe

    The argument that abortion should be solely a woman’s financial responsibility, and not paid for by anyone else in the form of taxes, is hypocritical at its core…because it completely disregards the fact that poor women, who are the most at risk, would be left without the necessary resources when in need.

    If Republicans had not invited the Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians to come on board in order to get more vote, they might not be in this mess…sounding more and more like a new American Taliban…

    Have you heard of Arthur Jones, a Republican candidate back in February in Illinois, who organizes neo-Nazi events in honor of Hitler’s birthday, saying that the holocaust never happened?…

    Have you heard Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, a tea party activist who has appeared several times on Fox News, and founder of an organization where Sean Hannity serves as an advisory board member, saying in a sermon recently posted to YouTube that America’s greatest mistake was allowing women the right to vote, adding that back in “the good old days, men knew that women are crazy and they knew how to deal with them.”

    You can’t make this stuff up…

  • mewabe

    Here I am copying part of a comment that I posted on the previous thread, because while abortion is an important issue, I think this one might be even more important:

    It appears that Romney is ready to declare war on Iran, and that the majority of the American public supports this (how can this be? This is apparently beyond my limited comprehension).

    Here again the American public might be the victim of its own ignorance of history….Iran is nor Iraq…it will not roll over and die, but will fight a bloody war that the US has no chance to win, unless using nuclear weapons.

    Do we want another world war? Vote Republican if you do, they will deliver!

    The concept of endless war came from Bush, Karl Rove, the neo- conservatives, and the openly imperialist ideology of the Project for a New American Century.

    Check their website: http://www.newamericancentury.org/

    Romney’s foreign policy team is jammed-packed with neo-conservatives who have the exact same hawkish, pro war ideology.

    So are you upset because Obama did not fulfill his promise of bringing the troops home? Then go ahead and vote for Romney, who you can be sure will fulfill his promise of declaring war on Iran, and will take the world into total chaos.

    The Christian fundamentalists will be delighted, thinking this will accelerate the second coming!

  • mewabe

    About freedom, can it actually be realized without evolution? Does a lack of freedom prevent actual evolution, or is a lack of evolution preventing freedom?

    For example, when an industry opposes regulations because it wants to be able to dump toxic waste in the waterways, is this an enlightened approach to freedom?

    In such a scenario, isn’t the “freedom” of this industry impeding on the freedom of nearby residents to have clean, unpolluted waterways?

    An extremely competitive (as opposed to cooperative) social system seems to oppose freedom, if not in principle, in practicality, when survival is the operational mode, and winning justifies any means.

  • Michael L

    So we go from abortion to war,

    Makes no difference really, because there are no jobs in this shrinking economic climate. We have to come together, cooperatively or though pain.

    So if you have any uplifting words please try to use them to promote a stone cold killer (Obama). This confuses my mind. He keeps killing innocent people all the time. I find no solace in voting for him. He is creating more grief around the world.

    (As opposed to President George W. Bush, whose policies and decisions never resulted in the death of a single innocent person. — NDW)

    As for a woman’s right to have the government pay for her abortion,,,,,Nope.

    My decision, that I have to live with, but also the energy I give with my thoughts are,,,,we take care of all the humans that are born, because we are a compassionate people and they are us, not because we can’t plan for the total births in our world society and have to stop the flow of evolution.

    (Really? we “take care of all the humans that are born?” Even the 47% of Americans who want nothing but a handout, and will never be convinced to take responsibility for themselves? Even the poor, the homeless, the downtrodden? Goodness, what a great idea. Sounds like the Democratic Party platform to me! ;o) — NDW)

    If we want to put money anywhere it could be for human education, that promotes one family of “man”.

    (Wow, agreed. AGREED! The New Revelations says exactly that, Michael! It says that the key to our future is education, education, EDUCATION.)

    It is cost effective to kill life, But is that really how we want to live as humans?

    (Not unless we use the electric chair to kill them. In that case, most conservatives say it’s alright. — NDW)

  • Michael L

    CMD,

    Keep up the intended prayer, I will too.

  • mewabe

    Michael, Romney will not create more grief around the world when attacking Iran (who by the way hasn’t attacked us…isn’t such aggression illegal)?

    Of course not, I just heard he was going to bomb Iran with stink bombs…nothing to be concerned about.

    And no matter what happens, it is all part of “God’s plan” isn’t it Michael?

    So let’s all cheer together when the Republican bombs start falling on Iran, the noise and the explosions are all part of God’s beautiful chorus underlying humanity’s evolutionary process…

    I was lost, but now I see Michael, thank you…

    Oh yeah, hallelujah, how sweet is the smell of burnt flesh (white phosphorous) when it is all part of God’s plan!

  • Michael L

    mewabe,

    Thank you for your opinion.
    God’s plan is the same what ever we do, It’s just sometimes we take a longer road. Actually every path we take with freewill goes to the same place.

    I will admit I come from a different ideological base, but I never see it anymore as me vs. them. that just holds one of us as a victim.
    Not even the thought they are doing it to me, but I am doing to to myself.

    As a co creator of this all, we can’t keep opposing each other in thought,which is creative. We just hold this same energy you see right now, in place. That’s why CWG says that the answer is a spiritual one not political, or economical, or Governmental.

    I get it you don’t want wars anymore, well neither do I. So at least we agree on one thing. But picking one over the other will not get you to no more wars. The world is the same who ever gets elected. and conflicts will happen, until they don’t.

  • Michael L

    Thank you Neale,

    (As opposed to President George W. Bush, whose policies and decisions never resulted in the death of a single innocent person. — NDW)

    Are you bringing to the conversation that I must now vote for George W. Bush?

    Is he now on the ballot for a 3rd time?

    No, but a man who is thought by many to be even more of a Hawk is. His name is Mitt Romney, with a running mate named Paul Ryan. And by the sounds they are making, they will have us in a war with Iran within 10 months if they are elected.

    But that isn’t even the point. The point is that you call Obama a man who has killed innocent people, instead of saying that “American foreign policy, whether under George Bush OR Barack Obama, is what is killing innocent people.” I brought up George Bush to show you how imbalanced and demonizing of Mr. Obama your remark was, instead of pointing to the real problem: The way the American military-industrial complex, and American foreign policy, sees the world. And that foreign policy is based in no small measure on economic interests, not on a CWG concept such as “We Are All One.” Demonizing Mr. Obama, as if he were the singular and sole problem, instead of calling into question the Entire Cultural Story that has caused BOTH Democratic AND Republican presidents to kill innocent people, is what I was pointing out. Obviously

  • mewabe

    In my opinion Michael conflicts do not happen, we let them happen, as we let everything else that is also destructive happen…Anything can, and could, change overnight, by making a decision to change it. But then we have to change ourselves.

    Indeed Michael, people should focus on what they have in common, rather than what seems to separate them. Our humanity is what we all have in common, and should always come first in all matters. But some people in the world are so attached to their ideas, their concepts, their beliefs, they give them priority over everything else, and kill and die for them…that’s insanity.

    Imagine getting to the “other side”, and realizing…ooops, I died for the wrong idea (or religion, ideology, etc)!

    What do we all want, a better world?…If this is what we truly want, then we should stop fighting about which way is the best to achieve it, because that’s quite a contradiction…creating hell on earth while fighting about which is the best version of heaven on earth!

    Yet it seems to be what humanity has done for centuries.

  • Ronald Moore

    We are truly far from the ideal world of CWG right now and we have a long journey yet till we are there. We are free to make or own decisions with the knowledge that those have consequences. This subject would not be so difficult if it was anything but babies. Aren’t we supposed to be more compassionate towards the most defenseless of us all? It becomes more murkier when you see that the vast majority of these procedures have absolutely nothing to do with the safety of the pregnant woman. There is no easy answer, I certainly as a man don’t have the answer. What might help us is that we just be honest about this and stop all the lies. The truth will set us free and yes sometimes the truth hurts.

  • Neale Donald Walsch

    Dear Ronald Moore…Now we are getting somewhere. You have said, “It becomes murkier when you see that the vast majority of these procedures have absolutely nothing to do with the safety of the pregnant woman.”

    I agree. I think we can all agree, on both sides of this question, that the statistics clearly show this.

    Ronald, you have also said: “There is no easy answer, I certainly as a man don’t have the answer. What might help us is that we just be honest about this and stop all the lies. The truth will set us free and yes sometimes the truth hurts.”

    I agree again. There IS no “easy answer.” But we might start with a “truth that hurts.” If we come from a new and larger understanding of Life, and what is really “so” about Life, we might find many of our internal conflicts disappearing.

    CWG has been contending for nearly two decades now that the problem facing humanity is a spiritual problem. There is something that we don’t understand about God and about Life, the understanding of which would change everything. Let’s start there…

    One thing we don’t understand about Life is that it is eternal. Your Soul always was, is now, and always will be. It has been, and will be, forever, and even forever more. It has lived many so-called “lives,” or physical incarnations. This is true of the Souls of all living beings.

    The key spiritual question here then becomes: Is this true also of the Soul of a fetus? If it is, then the question of “murder” is off the table in the abortion issue. And, for that matter, in all human affairs. The question in all human affairs becomes: What is the purpose of the Tri-Part Being that we call humans (Body/Mind/Spirit) coming into physical form in any particular lifetime? Does the Soul get only one lifetime to complete its purpose? Does it get any finite number of lifetimes? Or does it get an endless number of lifetimes, an infinite number, using All of Eternity to experience what it was designed by God to experience?

    And what, pray tell, is that?

    These are the difficult questions that true spiritual investigation must explore. And these questions confound the Mind, because the Mind is working with extraordinarily limited data—and inaccurate limited data at that: The inaccurate data given to us by human religions. Well intentioned religions, let us make it clear, but religions whose understanding is just as limited as that of human individuals. The problem: we are dealing here with incomplete data.

    Human religions would have us believe, for instance, that the Soul lives One Lifetime, and that is that. This places the question of abortion—and all human interaction, for that matter—within an extraordinarily limited context. Is it okay to end the Singular Life of A Soul using the death penalty, but not okay to do so using abortion? And what, exactly, makes one action perfectly okay, while another is not?

    Ah!, we say…because we have found the criminal “guilty,” while the fetus is “innocent.” So WE get to “play God” and decide (and we’d better be Right in every case about this) who is “guilty” and who is not. But in terms of a fetus we know for certain that it is innocent, and should therefore be granted physical life under every circumstance, without question.

    Yet when we discuss things at this level, we are not talking about the level of Soul. We are talking about the level of physical being. The Soul of the criminal may or may not be “guilty.” We say that is up to God to decide. It is not ours to judge. God will make that judgment. Some people have killed others with what they felt was “good reason”. So we let God be the judge. We only kill those who WE think we have “good reason” to kill. If THEY thought THAT had “good reason” to kill, and if we don’t agree, we kill them for that. But we can only deal with the physical, and we have to let God deal with the spiritual. We’ll deal with the bodily issues and let God deal with the Soul-level issues.

    Yet if that gives us the “right” to terminate the life of a cellular physical mass that call call a fully grown adult — through the death penalty, for instance (to speak nothing of what we call our “justified” wars) — why would it not give a woman the “right” to terminate the life of a cellular physical mass the size of a small coin, that we call a fetus?

    In both cases, are not the spiritual matters the purview of God? Yes, but we have that question of Guilt and Innocence once again. But have we not said here that many innocent people have been killed in wars that some humans felt were nevertheless justified? And have not innocent people been killed using the death penalty that some people felt was nevertheless justified? Could not both have been “mistakes”?

    You see, the whole of human affairs becomes very complicated when we consider its complexities within the context of what we imagine ourselves to know about Life Itself. Yet what if there was something we do not KNOW about God and about Life, the knowing of which would change everything? What is life was eternal, and you could not “terminate” the “life” of any Soul, no matter how hard you tried? And what if there was no such place as “hell,” and that even Hitler went to heaven — as Conversations with God says? What if there is more to this whole process of Life on Earth than meets the eye? What if we are trying to put a puzzle together with half the pieces missing?

    NOW we are talking. Care to have THAT discussion?

    If so, head over to QUESTION OF THE WEEK on this newspaper’s Home Page. That is where, each week, we will explore the Larger Questions of Life as they apply to the Smaller Experiences of Life in our daily encounters. Love and best thoughts…NDW

  • Trisha

    The thing is miscarriages and abortions are the same. Just one is a conscious decision and one is unconscious. It’s just words we put on it to make it okay or not okay with us.

    Secondly, our bodies wouldn’t know that oh, this is a real rape, abort, abort! That’s insanity.

    And last, the abortion issue is human’s fear at its highest. We would all be amazed at the women we all know who have had to face that decision. God does not judge us and understands the complexity, humans should get a grip and wake up another’s decision is not for them to decide.

  • Michael L

    As I was answering mewabe who can take care of them selves.

    (Demonizing Obama, as if he were the singular and sole problem, instead of calling into question the Entire Cultural Story that has caused BOTH Democratic AND Republican presidents to kill innocent people, is what I was pointing out. Obviously.)

    Demonizing Mitt Romney as the singular and sole problem……………………….. by mewabe,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Thank you for enlarging the conversation.

  • Frank

    Neale, This quote from your post:

    “Yet if that gives us the “right” to terminate the life of a cellular physical mass that call call a fully grown adult — through the death penalty, for instance (to speak nothing of what we call our “justified” wars) — why would it not give a woman the “right” to terminate the life of a cellular physical mass the size of a small coin, that we call a fetus?”

    makes me ask – “Why are you terminating your pregnancy?” Certainly the size of the vessel is not relevant – adult or fetus – but in each example an experience is ended. And if we support the idea that in the eternal paradigm it doesn’t matter, then how long before we start killing each other for a pair of shoes or a coat – wait, that’s already happening…

    I guess my question is do we, or don’t we value life in this short lived existence? And doesn’t that answer color our existence here drastically?

    Love Always

    FSP

  • Carla

    Dear all,

    I am not from the USA , but that does not mean i cant mingle in these subjects, just because ; America wants to be a world leader or at least be the example and lead the western world.
    And as much as I dont liked it at certain times, they are .
    Now in your comments and what you post all the time , is that America is the country of the FREE !!!!!!
    Also of free religion !!!!
    Then how is it possible that certain groups are aloud to make GOD enter the discussion when it suits them .
    Free means in my opinion that a person is free to choose what he prefers, not even Neale is not aloud to speak about certain issues according to some on fb , that sounds really free to me too.
    Not allowing that is truly false , then why is a politician ( more of them ) allowed and free to talk about any subject he wants to , even matters of the religion but not Neale.
    You say you learned a lot from Neale through his books , but now he cannot speak his mind.
    You know it is truly funny that your republicans talk about not wanting to hand out birth-control for women , but fail to see that this also helps against or makes less abortion necessary.
    Someone that even dares to say that you cant get pregnant by being raped ….is believed by you ? really ?????????
    And believe that war is a solution to all your problems on financial matters?
    Didn’t you learn that ,your war in Irak cost you way more , then taking care of the poor in your country?
    Why do you fail to see , that its that war and the people that started it ( on false pretenses even ) that made this whole recession happen?
    These wars are only good for the weapon factories and their financial partners.
    Your freedom never was in threat from the people of Irak , heck I have friends here in my country , that had to flee from Irak just because when they where asked to help by the government of the USA to help get to Saddam, and then the USA left. They had to run , and some years later Bush and his companions spend billions to do the same , and not only money but how many lives did it cost to. still does even .
    And the only ones that got rich of that , because that was the true reason for the war, well you should track those down. Spend more time researching that all instead of trying to sell us a wanna be president , who lies all the time and in his own words DOES NOT CARE FOR THOSE PEOPLE , meaning people like you and I , all except the materialistic 1 % .
    I got frustrated each time i see a post come by that says a military died They honor him for fighting for his country and also use freedom in the same sentence. But then when i watch the men whom came back injured physically or mentally from that same place , they are suddenly the poor and 47% that want a hand out ……. ……
    The 47% are also your elderly that helped build your country, the ones that cant work because they are ill, the less fortunate whom I believe where all your ancestors when they came to your country to try and get a better life.
    Yes I am so sorry Neale that I post my frustration on here, I am trying to understand all the time what people do or believe but now they even silence a man that talks from his heart and is wise in many life matters and questions .
    No one should be shut down from talking in the land if the free , I mean in the whole world.
    Why cant they listen to what you have to say and then make up their mind !!
    That is the normal procedure if you are FREE.
    Sorry but i cant understand why so many Americans have trouble with abortion, because that should be the concern of each human and his god or consciousness and not of his neighbor or fellow human being. That is true freedom!
    I could go on and on about this but i will stop
    What truly bothers me Neale , is that you cannot speak freely, what are they afraid of ?
    Why is it that a wanna be president can say and do anything he pleases , lie cheat and even threaten people and countries , and also talk about religion, and they still got his back and you are suppose to be quiet on fb ?
    Sorry guys you always talk about communism and socialism being bad , but its starting to look more and more that the republicans in your country are lead by some real fascistic men and you are being ignorant about it.
    Again sorry Neale as much as I will respect your decision not to talk about the topic on your own fb page , I saw and had to react

    Please people thousands years of war or otherwise fighting have never ever brought humans anything but sorrow , what makes you think it will work out this time ?

    Love you all ,
    Lets try love and leave no one out !!!

  • mewabe

    Come on Michael, let’s be honest, if I had brought up America’s foreign policy, the military-industrial complex, wars in the name of US economic interests, etc, you would have probably called me hateful again, this time towards America (I did it before, and got a barrage of responses from people who were offended, thinking that I was saying that America was evil, even though I pointed out that all nations do the same, the cultural story is the same for all, America just happens to be more powerful and thus more noticeable these days).

    Let’s agree to disagree on politics and leave it at that. As long as we don’t change the greater paradigm, the cultural story, we are all spinning our wheels anyway.

  • Michael L.

    mewabe,

    Actually I used you as an example to Neale that he pick me to call out, for not making an over all comment about the military-industrial complex being the trouble.

    But he didn’t pick your comment which was like mine.
    I was just showing the other side, but he is pretty thin skinned on these topics.
    And didn’t call you out on making a demonetization.

    So we are still good. I’m backing away from showing the other side. As now I get bashed by Neale.
    It’s not worth it. People have made up there minds by now how they feel and will vote accordingly. I’m for picking up the pieces and creating something more functional then we have now.

  • Carla

    Dear Neale

    Was thinking that maybe this again was an old way of me coming to surface, the wanting to change things that come up in the old black and white thinking.
    I stepped right into it , and opened the way i did for a long time now and it never helped neither.
    Maybe i do not understand something yet about how to change it inside myself in these matters. If I am creating this all then I dont understand what I am doing yet.
    Maybe its an old fear or something like that and feeling the need to speak up this time, or maybe i am looking to much into my outside world and while seeing what is happening, what I am doing wrong. Feeling responsible and wanting to help making it all a better world this time for all.
    Sometimes I have a hard time with, to just let things happen, especially when they seem and feel so wrong. I know its all about free choice of me and of everyone in this lifetime and truly exiting moments even. But still a bit confused as you can see of how to handle and act.
    Because the feeling does come up when i would not do anything, as if i am a witness of something and just watch and let someone drown or …. so am struggling on this one still .
    A true master of his own soul , is he she able to just watch ? And is that also what unconditional love also means ?

    So as noticed am confused about this part still…………… ?

    In loving thoughts
    a Concerned world citizen

  • Erin/IAm

    “To what degree is humanity ready & able to live with such freedom?”

    Hmmm…Good question! After the initial chaos of removing all the regulatory warning labels & laws, I honestly believe that Stupidity would at least have the grand opportunity to sort itself out in such process…dropping the human population by about 40% within the first 3 yrs. The funeral industry will have a total blast with this!…but then, too, we would be ‘free’ to return to the backyard pyre celebrations, which I Am all for.

    How about the ‘nth’ degree? We may not actually be “ready” for Nature Life (She’s got her own ‘unwritten’ little rules), but if me & mine are, I’m sure there are many more as well…Why not? Can’t be worse than the daily trudge thru humanity’s BS of present…Let go of the rule books & those that ‘own’ them, & let the sorting begin…Mother Nature knows how to “Git ‘r Done!”:)

    Understand, tho, Dearests…Freedom for All, means just that…Freedom for All! If a 19 yo. wants to play with plutonium in his basement, he can…If your child is free to roam the neighborhood, someone else is going to feel free to take them…If hubby wants 3 more wives in his bedroom, he is free to advertise for such, & wife #1 is free to accept or decline participation…Works both ways, too!:) 500yo. trees can be felled at anyone’s desire…no hunting ‘seasons’, & humans can be ‘trophied’, too. Dogs & cats & alligators must be set ‘free’ as well. No bathroom…no problem…just squat & go! Hey, you wanted Freedom, Kids…Here it sooo is! No insurance needed, can’t ‘sue’ for bad consumer choices, no police to ‘come to the rescue’ of ‘domestic disputes’…no licenses required, no road warnings, no ‘protections’ from abuse…no regulations on what ‘stuff’ can be played with, nor on what or whom.

    Oh, indeed…an All-encompassing mess! But out of such chaos would rise an entirely new breed of human…in record time!

    Can ya tell I’m having fun with imagination with this one? heehee!

    “Freedom”…rolls off the tongue sooo easily…

    Good Journey!:)