Do you believe that Hurricane Sandy is God’s punishment for the wicked ways of America, and that God is systematically destroying America? If you do, what is the basis of your belief? If not, what do you think could cause someone else to believe this?

Please Note: The mission of The Global Conversation website is to generate an ongoing sharing of thoughts, ideas, and opinions at this internet location in an interchange that we hope will produce an ongoing and expanding conversation ultimately generating wider benefit for our world. For this reason, links that draw people away from this site will be removed from our Comments Section, a process which may delay publication of your post. If you wish to include in your Comment the point of view of someone other than yourself, please feel free to report those views in full (and even reprint them) here.
Click here to acknowledge and remove this note:
  • Craig Wesson

    Hurricane Sandy is in no way God’s punishment. The superstorm was a natural phenomenon. These types of terrible phenomena are most likely the result of the global warming crisis, given added strength by people’s collective thoughts. God has no need nor reason to destroy. Period. God is love.
    I think someone else could come to believe this when they hear it from the doomsday preachers and their own judging and guilt-based egos. When enough people believe such a God exists, it gives their collective thoughts a lot of power and adds to the strength of other’s thoughts. This creates an increasing cycle where more people come to believe in the jealous, judgmental God and the strength of those convictions become stronger, and so on. I believe this energy could make the storms worse overall.

  • mewabe

    God does not punish, we do…we judge and hurt each other AND ALL OF THE CREATION all the time, it should be obvious, but denial is strong in humanity…if it was not, we could no longer do what we do so well, create hell on earth.

    Why do people believe in such rubbish as a punishing God? Christians believe that Jesus died (was sacrificed) to pay for the “sins” of humanity. They think that those who do not accept this still have a debt to pay. But more importantly, this is a convenient and powerful form of denial.

    When the earth ecological systems collapse, those who pushed dominion, who pushed for the conquest, control and exploitation of the natural environment by all possible means, will blame non believers and the devil for these collapses, instead of taking responsibility.

  • Buzz

    Hello Craig Wesson,
    God does not punish, but God does kill and destroy. Some of us judge these events as punishment. God is life, all the stages of life not just the part you like. Life includes death and rebirth, the waxing and waning of the seasons, the days and the lunar cycles. It’s all part of God’s beautiful illusion of creation. It is God being God through God as God for God.

    Mewabe,
    Many excellent points as always. I really like the articulation of your post this time. If ever a moment existed to apply this axiom, this is it: Well said my friend!
    However I have noticed over the years that religions are willing and able to adapt doctrine to keep people attending their institution, and the Christian ones have been preaching forgiveness so long that if they simply ask they’ll receive forgiveness from almost everyone who was once Christian and most other people too. Yes they have made many mistakes an continue to today, but who doesn’t? We’re all human after all.
    This will ofcourse be delayed until they realise as some churches have already that blaming non-believers will incite hate crimes and spread animosity and resentment around both church goers and their communities as they compete for title of “most faithful believer Ned Flanders”.
    Change is slow, but it never stops, and every now and then (with increasing frequency) a Sandy or Katrina or 9/11 or Aceh or Fukushima comes along to remind us of that. These things are not bad, just surprising, unexpected, shocking and very different from what we dreamed and wanted and prayed for.

  • mewabe

    New York mayor Bloomberg is backing President Barack Obama for re-election, saying the incumbent Democrat will bring leadership that is critically needed to fight climate change after the East Coast devastation wrought by Superstorm Sandy.

    Good to know one politician in America (or perhaps half a dozen, to be fair) actually understands what is going on with climate change, while the American Taliban claims God is punishing the sinners…

  • mewabe

    I forgot to answer the question “what do you think could cause someone else to believe this?”

    It’s rather easy…dying brain cells.

    That’s what believing does…believing implies that one no longer has to think about whatever s/he believes. The more beliefs, the less thinking, and the more the mind closes, not welcoming input that could challenges such beliefs, even when this input is something like….reality.

    What is the difference between psychosis and religious beliefs such as the one that tells that God punishes sinners by unleashing such storms?
    A psychotic might think that the storm has been caused by aliens…really, there is no difference.

  • mewabe

    Thanks Buzz (:

  • Kristen

    Strange question from one whom doesn’t believe in a punishing God. I do, and based on the prophecies, not just biblical, it may well be so. Prophecies state ‘they will do jobs not approved by the Job God’, ‘they will not be allowed to build their cities’, ‘God will destroy those whom those destroy the earth’ etc…the list does on. Note He of Lawlessness = He of Freewill!!! Having studied for many years all the Universal Laws, hundreds of them, via Kaballah via a Tree of Life teacher, intuition, alchemy, the real God, prophecies etc, there is a system above all that governs all of existance which is now very close to earth so we can expect to see a lot of changes, for the worst for most people as we are being reverted to the simplicity of the 70’s, including monetary and Karma via symbology (see a dream interpretation book to translate everything going on down to even your own underwear!). This system is where all the masters are teaching from and the changes they have been trying to make incl Jesus etc, which is now being automated. As prophecised by Di Vinci, that the one (satan) who fights laws will be enshrouded by them, even Satan is working for the System of Governance, knowing his options if he doesn’t, and being shrewd is very handy to outsmart the smart. I want publish these laws if I can work out a safe way to, and maintaining my privacy, as we really need to know exactly what we are bound by and what we are in for, and very few have been released publically.Trust me, it’s much easier to keep your nose clean and be righteous when you understand what is going on and the laws you are bound by. Neale – are you interested in buying these for your publication??

  • Buzz

    Wow. Seal clap for Mewabe. That’s two in a row. You’re answer of dying brain cells is dead on. This guy’s on fire.
    Personally I would’ve used a different word to belief, like worship or blind faith or devotion. Nevertheless the point was clear and well made.

  • Erin/IAm

    ‘Fight’ climate change…LOL! Oh, yeah, let’s break out the guns on this one!:D
    Funny. I sooo like the “dying brain cell” thingy…LOL, louder…it’s perfect!

    No, “God” is not destroying anything…We’re doing that quite well without any ‘help from above’.

    The notion is quite convenient, though…a perfect fear tool…serving fear-lovers everywhere just fine, for centuries. Let their “Rapture” ensue…some Angels need to go Home, anyway. They are already ‘saved’, right? So why would they be so concerned of stormy weathers toward their ends?

    LOL, still!:)

  • mewabe

    Erin, the “fight climate change” comment was taken from a headline on the internet…you are right, wrong approach, our culture always has an antagonistic approach to everything (fight cancer, the war on drugs, etc).

    Words are very revealing of a mind set, thanks for noticing, I glanced over it and did not pay attention…

    We only thing we need to “fight” is not climate change but ourselves (who are causing it), and to do this we need not fight but change from the inside out and the outside in.

    Yes let all love-fearers and fear-lovers go home, wherever that is, far far away!

  • Kristen

    Mewabe, my perception of the word believe differs greatly from yours. I would believe in something when I was 99% sure of it to be the truth, as close as I could get to knowing it to be truth without full evidence. Beliefs are different, they can be faith based, fairy tales, rituals etc. Could I ever believe in Jesus as a savior, ie be a Christian, no. Could I believe in consequences for actions, punishing Gods etc, yes. A belief, nor what we believe in doesn’t make it the truth, it is merely our own opinion based on perception, that is the facts available to us. Best to avoid any without a lot of research and accumulation of facts, what we believe in and beliefs can be very damaging and deceptive. I believe in the truth, what ever the truth may be, whether I’m aware of it or not. Easy philosophy to have, any bypasses deception etc. Climate change is being manipulated from above and their contempories on earth, earths ‘enduring’ status with the biblical God’s laws in place is defined by us having four seasons (in Genesis), and the bible later states Gods laws will be in place whilst the earth ‘endures’. Climate change is working to take away this legal definition of the four season status, through reincarnation primarily with money to travel etc with, so the evils/aliens on other realms can fight over earth. It’s horrible that we are all subjected to these games over land! Good will always in over evil, they are wasting their time. Again, God will destroy those who destroy the earth!! And money makers may well be at the top of the list.

  • mewabe

    Thank you Kristen for your comment, but I have to admit that I do not really understand what you mean, and I do not want to make any assumptions, thinking I “get” something if I do not, which could only lead to some form of miscommunication and then to frustration on your part.

    I can only address this, about beliefs:

    Personally, I live with as few beliefs as possible, first because I like mystery (I am more of a mystic in my approach to spirituality, I do not care about universal laws, rules, spiritual principles, “secrets”, I do not need to define, organize and box the universe or the divine within neat little categories, I do not seek “mastery” or “special powers” as do so many, I only like personal insights that come from a direct communion with the divine mystery, which is food for the soul), secondly because I need to keep my mind open, knowing that the universe is infinite, and that the wisdom that can be gained is also infinite.

    I know that when we think we got it all figured out, we have only taken a half-step on our journey, and the more we know, the more we realize how little we know, because what is to be known is truly without end.

    This is why those who know do not speak, and those who speak do not know, to paraphrase Lao Tzu (because real spiritual knowledge, or rather direct knowing, is way beyond words, beyond all concepts, and it is way beyond this world in its present stage of evolution).

  • Ma Moore

    That would be absurd to believe that “God” is punishing the East Coast with hurricane Sandy. some one would believe that if they truly didnt have a clue and were so uninformed to be really stupid. Like on the scale of if a black cat crosses in front of you it is bad luck.

  • Kristen

    There are many gods. The biblical YWHW God is one, the CWG God is another, all overseen by, and a part of the Source, as is our soul source. To know or believe the CWG God is not a punishing God is one thing, to think you/we are in a position the believe that there are no other punishing Gods is a different story. The biblical YWHW God is a punishing God, every teaching in existance other than CWG teachings clearly define consequences for actions/punishments/karma. I am not a God obviously, therefore even if I wanted there to be an existance of no punishments or punishing Gods (other than by self), which would be my worst nightmare, I could not make this a reality short of killing every punishing God.This is where believing becomes dangerous, complacency is dangerous, and to mislead people into thinking there are no punishing Gods etc is even more so to yourself for Karma determines we will suffer for the suffering we have caused, both directly and indirectly. For this reason I have to believe in punishments and consequences. To state those who know do not speak is probably insulting to your God, Neale and all teachers on this planet. Obviously you are reading and learning from them speaking out, as we all are. A master has reached a level in his/her speciality where they are able to teach. Without teachers, we/you would have nothing other then the bliss of ignorance, you should be grateful to them for sharing their wisdom and learnings. My personal stance is neither spiritual or religious, but an accumulation of all I am aware of to be the truth, which combined together are defined as laws, which then branch off into many smaller aspects of the whole, regarding which some of the teaching/learning outcomes are religious and spiritual. Neither is entire on its own, just a small part of it. Like the popular Law of Attraction is one of many laws, supposed to be in conjunction with many others, spirituality is a small part of a huge thing.

    Ma Moore, I answered Neales question. He wanted to know why some could believe in Gods punishments, not to know that if I answer his question then you think I am stupid. The exact opposite. Informed, smart, both self learned and educated, and open minded. Why would one ask a question, if he felt those answering were stupid. You have a ways to go sunshine!!

  • Kat

    I read here more than I post, and Mewabe, we think a lot a like! 😉

    Neale asked: “…..If not, what do you think could cause someone else to believe this?” [that God’s punishing America]

    Well, I’d always wondered too why some on the “religious right” in our country (the US) were so ‘hard core’ and continuing to veer further right with each passing year. [and every election cycle also] I was also curious as to why they were gaining such ground and influence politically, especially with some of the far out beliefs they espouse….and just a few months ago I got my hands on several books that, between the 6 of them, “my lights came on.” A lot of the things I’d observed [politically & socially – with the rise of the religious right] over the last 30 years started to ‘make sense’….well, not to me, anyway – but I started seeing at least some of what was motivating these people belief-wise. There’s more to it than just “dying brain cells” Mewabe! LOL!! It is, for some, worse than you think! LOL!!

    And for me, after reading these books, it’s downright scary what some of these people really believe – and WHY. And that’s I what was looking to understand – the same thing Neale is asking here – WHAT is causing [some] of these people to believe what they do? And why? [Remember what (the now late) Jerry Falwell said after the 9/11 attacks?]

    And that’s what also in part motivated these authors – to go and find out for themselves why these people believe what they do, and how they’re gaining power in this country and what they plan to do with it.

    For anybody that may be interested…

    ‘What’s The Matter With Kansas?: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America’ by Thomas Frank [focuses mostly on why so many people (religious conservatives) vote against their own best economic interests]

    ‘Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism’ by Michelle Goldberg [focusing on the rise of Christian theocratic ideals/theocracy, dominionism, religious radicalism, etc.]

    ‘American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America’ by Chris Hedges. [And many believe it is a ‘war’ too, and they aim to win.]

    ‘The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power’ and ‘C Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy’ both by Jeff Sharlet
    [Jeff actually got inside this powerful group behind the National Prayer Breakfast. After reading ‘The Family’ I now understand what these religious folks [especially Congressman/religious leaders] mean now when they publicly mention (i.e. “dog whistle”) the term “family values” and just what ‘family’ some of them are really referring to; and honey – it ain’t yours.]

    These books will answer many questions, including Neale’s, on what’s causing [some of] these people to believe what they do and why.

    Some believe that the USofA was originally established/founded as the Kingdom of Christ on Earth, that we’ve drifted away from that, and that God is punishing us for it left and right. They believe that this country was founded as a Christian nation based on the Bible…[they preach that the separation of church and state is a myth]; the Christian Reconstructionist Movement is determined to do just that too – “reconstruct” the Christian Nation. [do a ‘net search on “Christian Reconstructionism” – it’s frightening what they believe] The Dominionist Movement believes and is determined that they are to have dominion over America and then the world. There’s others that believe democracy/voting is a sin and must be done away with. Some are looking to establish a theocracy – hence no more need for voting. And they mean business…many admit that they have to take the country back by stealth, one section at a time, one piece of legislation at a time.

    Mewabe mentioned ‘psychosis’….yeah, me thinks there’s some of that going on too with at least some of these folks, and then some. I also got a glimpse into the ‘psychology’ of some of these folks, i.e. where their head (mindset/worldview) is at…and oh yes, some are motivated by fear and anger, psychosis, childhood abuse, resentment, etc. {For more on that, consider ‘Republican Gomorrah’ by Max Blumenthal. Amazing how many Republicans & preachers condemn gays (publicly)- yet are (closeted) gays themselves. Oops! Remember the (Colorado) Pastor Ted scandal?}

    Remember this past summer when the Kansas pastor preached that the Government should kill/put to death gays? [A NC pastor brought this up before the Kansas pastor did.] After reading the aforementioned books, I understand now how serious some of these people are about statements like this. They really mean it.

    Erin brought up the “Rapture”….oh yeah, those folks have no concern for the environment, others, etc., either – they’re leaving soon anyway – so they think. The latest ‘scheduled’ rapture that failed to materialize was in May 2011. They’re still here… waiting again…to escape a world that they really can’t deal with or accept. (Remember what bestsellers the LaHaye/Jenkins “Left Behind” series was?)

    The answers to what these people believe and why are out there….and pay attention folks, because these people are gaining political power….

  • mewabe

    Thank you Kat, very interesting material…I call these people the American Taliban, but they are actually a lot worse. They would begin a new inquisition in a heart bit, and put to death all they condemn as “the enemies of Christ” without blinking an eye, thinking that they are doing God’s work…all environmentalists, feminists, gays, psychics and healers, new spirituality teachers, controversial writers and artists, probably all drug addicts, and anyone who does not convert.

    I agree with you, those people need to be taken seriously, because they are getting to be more and more influential, and their insane statements are now part of the “rational” political debate, when decades ago the public and the media might have just laughed them off as being nut cases…

    As the world approaches a global crisis, extremism is rising everywhere, a sign of global fear, of the people seeking to regain control. But no matter what anyone does, there is no stopping the new tide, the new consciousness, and a temporary loss of control that will force us all to put our house (the world) in order, to stop destroying the world and each other.

  • mewabe

    I meant to write a heart beat…a bit of a heart beat…a biting heart…a heart bite…(:

  • Kristen

    So glad to not be in America!! Brainwashed extremists are dangerous, whatever their beliefs, and a belief in their own selves and over inflated egos, whilst hiding behind, and blaming God for their actions is scary. Remember Gods people are Isrealites, both Jewish and gentiles, christianity is not in the bible, and if they are not living similar to the Amish or Jewish communitys they are up to something dodgy. Jesus forbade wealth and a christian with money cannot make it into heaven, and they know it, so are using God and religion as an excuse for their own freewill based choices. They know the consequences since both jesus and God are judges and have said most will be sent to hell, and christianity is a signing of this contract! That they are prepared to risk so much makes their agenda so much more dangerous, but is nothing to do with God. Id be very wary of any clean shaven minister etc as it is forbidden, lucky their God is a punishing God huh?!

  • Marko

    Hurricane Sandy is neither God Approved nor God’s punishment, nor disapproved by God.

    It is however, God’s will.

    It’s all Gods will. That is all life. That is, if you agree with the CwG cosmology.

    God gave us free will. The ultimate gift that allows us the all of it to experience or not to experience.

    What is often never considered in this, is that with free will, with all that power & blessed freedom comes the responsibility & freedom to abuse it. That’s right. It includes the freedom to abuse it. In the sense that we abuse it in ways that may not be in our best interest.

    We can and do abuse our free will. That we do abuse our free will (example war & cruelty) or in whatever negative or terrible way we do is part of the freedom.

    We always are at choice to change, alter, redirect our free will. Even limit it. Limiting certain aspects of free will can ironically create more freedom.

    If we set limits on how much money people could have say 1 billion. That may be very limiting to multi billionaires, but it would give the possibility of billions of others on the planet to live in less poverty.

    Jesus said “The poor you will have always” That may be true. However, that does not mean we cannot change the definition of poor to meaning adequate food, housing, education & medical care for all in the future. As for the other toys like private jets, yachts, expensive art, that will be available to those who work & play for such luxuries.

    As for “what do you think could cause someone else to believe this?” Perhaps a better question is what could one do to give them a better alternative in a way that does not judge & condemn them as wrong or stupid? Libs love to call conservatives stupid which is not very nice, productive or convincing to the other side.

    Yet to offer an alternative way that is so convincing that it would be silly to argue against it may be far more beneficial & productive.

    Magically,
    -Marko

  • Joyce Derby

    Absolutely not! I don’t understand science but I do believe the chaos it brings is because people don’t pay attention to the weather patterns and are too busy to worry about preparing for hurricanes or anything else. They go through life with the attitude of ‘that happens to everyone else but not me’.

  • Chamuel

    God isn´t punishing any human on earth. God is love, and love can´t punish. God is everything that is, and that would mean god is punishing him(her)self and that would mean god isn´t love. How could God punish?

    Gaia is going through strong energeticly changes. These changes are necessary, that she can go back home, to where she came from.

    The Hurricane Sandy and other dramaticly changes on earth are cleansing old structures on Gaia and in the collective thoughtfield of the humans. There will allways be things we don´t understand as human beings. An sometimes it doesn´t really matters why things are happening. We have to keep our focus on to the light inside of us. This part in us, is not asking questions like this. This part knows that everything is right. One of the biggest gifts we can give is the trust, the faith, in god.

    In love, Chamuel

    (Sorry, i am German – my English isn´t the best! But my intention was good! :-))

  • Kristen

    Nicely put Marko, and thanks. The entire misconceptions are based on believing there is only one God. There are many, some punishing, some not, the CWG God is a relatively new God around earth which he/she even stated in one of the later books, after clearly implying he/she was the biblical God whom I’m sure Neale was praying to in the first place. My entire point, and what terrifys me for people, is that to believe in only one god, a non punishing one, is very dangerous and may encourage people to use their freewill in in way they would not choose if they believed in a punishing God as well as their own loving God. Biblical YWHW God is a very loving God too,in a fatherly/grandfatherly way, IF you are righteous and stay on the right side of him. I would not want to be on the wrong side of him, especially when it is stated ‘God will destroy those whom destroy the earth’. I am curious as to whether Neale & those high up in his organisations believe in other gods as existing, or just the CWG non punishing one. CWG God is just my personal way of identifying which god I am referring to. Joyce, as mentioned earlier you should take a look at a symbology book, ie a dream interpretation book, as everything is defined in this, and is our physical reality not just dreams, and is a quite simple way of reading life and understanding yourself. Just look up what you have and like, to understand yourself, or anything that happens. Many big things are being created because of mass minds and actions. This shows us how we are creating our own reality, and how thought, intent, behaviour and actions translate from ‘invisible’ to the physical. Storms mean a huge change in mass minds, creative power AND ANGER OF THE GODS etc, which ties in with some of the wants of followers in here, and disasters always create ‘headspace’ change for those involved anyway. I am sorry that my differing beliefs cannot be understood, but I cannot dismiss every teaching over the history of this planet in favour of the CWG God being the only one in existance, and cannot have faith without the concept of those above us tracking everything and punishing on our behalf when THEY feel they need to intervene. This doesn’t mean the storm has to be a Gods doing, but nothing can occur without it being created by us individually or collectively in some form, and that is Gods will. Do the crime, do the time! I was kinda liking being stupid, better than a fundamentalist or study geek (neither applies), but we only name call, dismiss and attack out of fear, and we only fear the unknown or what we don’t understand, or that which may change our own beliefs or comfort zone so to me it is a positive thing to be called names or dismissed. They read it!!

  • Buzz

    Love thy neighbour, and forgive them their tresspasses against us, even if they are a scheming extremist religious fundamentalists and automatic weapons stockpilers seeking to control the world. Don’t let the behaviour of others define you. Act by example and lead the way in how you want your world to look. If there is someone doing something you don’t agree with, don’t bother trying to change them because that’s impossible. Instead change your judgement about them, perhaps like a parent(s) looks at their child who has thrown his meal on the floor.

  • Britta

    Wir sollten aufhören die Welt mit Teppichen zu bedecken, sondern uns endlich mal die Schuhe anziehen !!!

  • Sally Wynn

    Really? God really feels some need to punish people? I think not. Punishment breeds punishment; wickedness breeds wickedness; hate breeds hate. Love breeds love; goodness breeds goodness; healing breeds healing. God would sow, water and fertilize the seeds God wants to grow.

  • Jennifer

    I do not believe hurricane Sandy or any other natural disaster that has occurred throughout the world is God punishing anyone. I do believe the planet is a living organism and it is responding to the united energy emitted from each human being. I believe most of us on the planet, are working at jobs we don’t like or, feel like we could be doing something different. Are we really here to work, spend no time with family and friends and then die? I believe there is more to life and it is about sharing love and joyful moments. Probelm is, most of us don’t know how to get out of the cycle we’re in. Maybe we don’t know what’d we’d like to do on a daily basis for “work” but, know that the life we’re living seems “wrong”.

  • Kat

    Yes, Mewabe, there are extremist elements in the fundamentalist religious right in this country that do believe that every jot and tittle in the Bible is to be taken literally (Biblical literalists). The most ‘hard core’ of these is the Christian Reconstructionists. (R J Rushdoony* is considered to be the ‘father’ of this movement.) This particular sect believes that this country should revolve around ALL of the laws laid out in the old testament, which includes a lot of stoning people to death (for adultery, blasphemy, stoning disobedient children, gays, etc.) I forget in which of those books I mentioned above that I read it in, but yes, some of these extremists have made comments that unfortunately, millions (of Americans) will have to die once they succeed in taking this country back for God. (per scripture). If they don’t convert, submit and obey, they’ll be killed as scripture dictates.

    [* per Rushdoony’s “The Institutes of Biblical Law”, people guilty of the following crimes would be put to death: homosexuality, incest, rape, kidnapping, women lying about their virginity, bestiality, witchcraft, idolatry, apostasy, adultery, blasphemy, false prophesying, bearing false witness. There goes the neighborhood. He also stated that: “Christianity and democracy are inevitably enemies.” BTW – there’s not much difference between Reconstructionists and Dominionists – both are seeking to turn the USofA into a theocracy, and they’ve been making headway politically, inch by inch, over the past 30+ years.]

    The Dominionists movement believes that only Christians, like themselves, have the right to rule the people of the earth. (per scripture) [Sarah Palin, for one, has Dominionist leanings. You can see a video of her at a church in Wasilla, AK being blessed and protected from every form of witchcraft and Satan too. Whatever…]

    Both of these groups believe that the one and only true form of Government is the government of Jesus Christ, which of course since Jesus isn’t here, they’ll administer it for him according to their interpretation of the Bible.

    After reading all of these books back-to-back, I understand now why so many of these people are so anti-government – our current form of government (Constitutional Republic) is the “wrong” one – i.e. Jesus and his people [them] aren’t totally running it…yet. There’s no need to vote either – the Bible is all you need, and you don’t get to vote on what the Bible says. To them, the current secular democratic society must go. To them, this country is to be run by church leaders/elders, and all laws in this country are to be overseen and administered by judges enforcing Biblical law only. There goes chunks of the Constitution, the CFR, the Bill of Rights, etc. In one of those books it was mentioned that someone made a comment once about taking out “liberal” judges in this country, basically insinuating that even if that means killing them.

    [You and I aren’t the only ones Mewabe that refer to these folks as the ‘American Taliban’ – many do.]

    YES – these people DO need to be taken seriously, and that’s part of what’s motivated these authors to examine these movements and write about them; they’re trying to wake people up as to just how much political ground these people are gaining and what their intentions are for this country – and you and me and others. They’re steadily infiltrating political offices at the local, state, and federal levels, and their aim is to impose a Biblical worldview and laws on society and bring order to this ‘chaos’.

    Yes, Mewabe, fear is on the rise in many quarters, and that’s part of what’s motivating some on the far religious right – in a nutshell, they’re frightened by the world as it currently is. You’re right – they seek to gain control of a world that to them is out of control. This is another thing I came to understand about these extremists after reading these books. To some of them, the world is just a scary place to be – there’s too much diversity (of people, thoughts, beliefs, religions, cultures, lifestyles, etc.), and disorder and chaos – and they can’t deal with it or accept it. This is why some a) can’t wait to be “raptured” out of it, or b) why some are eager for WWIII to break out, or c) why some believe that the only way to bring order to chaos [and get everything under control] is to have EVERYBODY believe, live, walk and talk one way and one way only – the [Christian] Biblical way.

    Marko brought up how some Libs call conservatives stupid*, and about giving people a better alternative way…..well, Michelle Goldberg touches on this somewhat in her book; that these religious extremists have some serious concerns/needs/fears/issues that could stand to be addressed politically and socially. Let’s not ignore them, let’s see if we can help them out of their extremist views and show them another way. It’s gonna be tough to get some to budge though – they’re convinced that a 2,000 year old book (the Bible) contains all the info you’ll ever need to know.

    [* You gotta admit that folks like Todd “legitimate rape” Akin, or Richard “pregnancy-from-rape-a-gift-from-God” Mourdock don’t help them look real ‘smart’ sometimes.]

    Personally, I don’t view these people as stupid so much as I do ignorant; Akin is obviously ignorant as to female biological functions. Obviously.

    I don’t really care what others believe, never have – they’re free and entitled to believe whatever they want to….what concerns me is when they seek to force others to live according to their beliefs, and being willing and able to even kill them for not doing so. I’m not up to being killed simply because I’m not a virgin, ya know? [Have you noticed that throughout history men don’t seem to have to prove their virginity?]

    That’s what I agree with you about Mewabe – especially after reading these books and hearing from these people’s own mouths what some of them truly believe – that they would be doing “God’s work” implementing these extremists views and policies on everybody else in the name of Jesus. This is why some would have no qualms about killing those they deem sinners – because God says to in the Bible! [That’s why the guy that stood trial for murdering an abortion doctor [in 2009] honestly thought that he shouldn’t even be tried for murder.]

    I also almost passed out when I read that when G W Bush was president, he told then French President Jacques Chirac (as justification for the war in Iraq) that based on his (born again Christian Methodist) beliefs that “Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East…”, and that “this confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase His people’s enemies.” Chirac allegedly hung up the phone, and asked his staff if they knew what he (GWB) was talking about (“God and Magog”?), and then intructed his staff to “Find out.” I bet he did. [reference – see Kurt Eichenwald’s “500 Days: Secrets and Lies in the Terror Wars”.]

    Yes, it ‘scares’ me to think of what these types can, have, and will do in power in the name of Jesus. How many have and will be murdered in the name of God? And the rest of us best be paying close attention, because these extremists are gaining ground at the local, state and federal levels.

    Well, it’s Election Day here in the US, and I’m heading out to the voting booth…

    Peace everyone….

  • Michael L.

    Thanks Kat for the other side.

    One question,
    What if Jesus spoke to each believer, which isn’t beyond our comprehensions. As we believe in channeling,
    That would save you from the fundamentalist that you Fear.

    I do believe that, that, it can happen and why I don’t have that fear you do.

  • mewabe

    Michael,

    The only problem is that if Jesus spoke directly to these fundamentalists, they would think it is the devil speaking!

    Why? Because no matter how gently he spoke, he would have to try to somehow present a more expanded point of view to them, and anything that is not in sync with their literal (and rather obtuse) interpretation of the old testament would scare the fundamentalists to death…they would call him the anti-Christ in no time, and the irony would be lost on them!

    Michael, perhaps you do not really understand the power of delusions…these types of delusions (such as these fundamentalist beliefs) have caused religious authorities to unleashed long periods of extreme oppression and of brutal and cruel persecution on populations in the past, and the fact they they are gaining in strength should be a cause for real concern, in my opinion.

    Thanks Kat for being concerned and very well informed about this…and for spreading the information!

    Nevertheless I do believe that there is a power greater than these emergence of religious extremism…the world is changing, a new consciousness is rising, and it is scaring those who refuse the change, and they seek to hold on and return to the distant past.

    These movements are like hiccups, symptoms of a blockage of energy, of resistance to change…they are actually akin to the last intense tremors of a dying creature…all of this garbage (yes Marko it is garbage, something that needs to be discarded and recycled into the ether into more positive energy) will be swept away in this new tide of consciousness, that is already manifesting itself.

    I do not believe this change will happen this year as do others, but it is already here and will keep coming in waves over the next few years or decades.

  • Kristen

    I long for everything to change, which hopefully law, consequences and punishments will do, and for earths status to be that of an Eden, ie where no wrong (generally defined as causing suffering) is permitted, with huge dire consequences if wrong is done. And if that means living under the biblical Gods rules in order to stop peodophiles, animal & child abusers, sickos, sexual predators, greed, destruction etc, them I am prepared to sacrifice some of my freedom in for everyones wellbeing. And I don’t want to do the things God forbids anyway. I’m happy to be a wife who gets to sew and embroider clothes to sell, and use my profits to buy land etc as He instructs, I’m very much over working to support 4 teenagers. Universal law will govern us soon anyway. One thing I would never do is partake in the manmade religion of christianity (the bible forbids listening to man in regard to religions anyway), but Judaism as a non Jew isn’t too bad – I’d miss free range bacon though! We need those above to punish on our behalf, to forsake this is to say you support peodophiles and the like. Evil needs to be stopped and punished, not to have their hands held and understood. As a first lifer person/soul (non reincarnated) therefore not from the afterlife and the CWG Gods domain, I have nothing to re-member and have full freewill with no outstanding karma, so being completely free and non brainwashed has allowed me a much different education and objectivity. And the biblical YWHW has been very good to me, as have his staff working as teachers on the tree of life, as has the Job God, and as has the system of laws that govern all of existance. Closed minds close doors, open minds open doors, truth seeking leads to the truth, disbelief leads to a state of disbelief, brainwashing leads to brainwashing etc – the list could go on forever. All I can say is please be aware that some Gods do punish, and they will, whether you believe it or not, want it or not, so don’t make dangerous mistakes.

  • Buzz

    Mewabe, Kat, and most especially Kristen,
    So many people harbouring so much fear here. ACIM repeatedly and expressively states, in the largest, boldest text that could fit on the page:

    “Nothing real can be harmed. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God.”

    This was written by psychiatrist Dr Helen Schucman. It means there is nothing to fear. Your perceived threat is an illusion. You are safe. Be calm and at peace.

    ACIM is the original text that I believe started the modern spiritual awareness. CWG, most of the stuff from Hay House Publishing, and the latest understandings of The Law Of Attraction all began, or were born from people who understood ACIM.

  • LarryS

    By the look of the election results we have a long way to go to get collective conscientious going in the right direction, if it can even work in this country now!!

  • Ange

    I believe that Hurricane Sandy is the out-picturing of the imbalances that man has created with Mother Nature. It is not God, itself, but rather the Law working as it was created to…to bring life back into balance.
    I do not believe that God uses storm, disease, or anything else to “punish” humans. God simply created Laws and it is up to the human race to decide for itself how it acts within the Law.

  • Victoria M. Reynolds

    The Unconditionally Loving Energy, The Infinite Intelligence, Source Energy many call God, does not destroy. It is Creator… it creates. All things are in the creation process beginning with a seed and moving through its life cycles until it wilts and returns to replant itself as new life. Our planet also moves through Her own life cycles and we are simply in Her path. We are part of Her growth and expansion process. God is not punishing us. Rather we are experiencing all that it means to be human. We are experiencing opportunities to extend compassion and understanding rather than blame and anger.

  • Jerry MacDonald

    God makes no judgement in this matter nor does He/She dictate that will on any society. It is not God that is destroying America; it is its people.

  • Nita

    The God, Source that is the God of Love would never ever ever punish anyone.

    I do believe the basis of such nonsense is those who preach of a vengeful God and believe in sin, punishment, hate, and all of the negative vibrations of the world. Now, where do most of these folks get there date? Preachers who do not come from the seat of love. People with big ego’s. Those who see only one direction and that is theirs.

    I think some people are gonna be really really mad when they get to “heaven” and find out God lets everybody in.

  • Tia Robinson

    That event, like many such events, is an announcement that something is out of order. It is a natural consequence of climate change, which is, along with other “signs”, a natural consequence of some things humans have affected and effected with ill thought out actions. It isn’t punishment. but I keep having this idea of a cartoon in which the earth personified is asking “Can youz5ua hear me now?” over and over.

  • mewabe

    Thanks Tia, yes the voice of the earth needs to be heard, and its power felt…to make us finally understand that we can’t keep trashing and destroying our own home (humanity is hard of hearing and a little slow on the uptake, when it comes to its relationship with nature, with what sustains its physical life).

    Buzz, denouncing the fundamentalists and other extremists, and being fully aware of their agenda has nothing to do with spreading or experiencing fear…it’s kind of like when you are driving fast in the mountains and a sign tells you there is a sharp turn coming up right next to a cliff, you slow down and pay attention…or if you are hiking and something tells you to look down, and there is a rattlesnake sunning itself in your path, right in front of you…you don’t feel fear, but you don’t step on it either.

    Its’ not about fear but awareness. As I explained in my latest comment, these movements represent the last desperate efforts of a segment of humanity that fears change, and resists and wants to go back to the 12th century…they won’t succeed, but in their struggles they can cause some disruption and some temporary pain, and become a political nightmare for a time…they already have.

    At the same time,because of the laws of polarity, they serve a great purpose: they make us clearly understand what we do not want…we do not want an American Taliban. So these clowns do have a role to play.

  • Kristen

    Buzz. I agree to some extent but prefer to confront issues and try to do my bit rather than to psychologically pretend they aren’t happening.
    Having studied universal laws, the Law of Attraction is one law of many that should be used and understood in conjunction with the hundreds of other laws in place. How do you explain to abducted & sexually abused children that their fear is not real. As adults we have a responsibility to fight for those whom can not. Individual spiritual quests are the ultimate form of selfishness, and those doing so have to continiously be reincarnated as they do not reach the required levels. One of which is to do your bit fighting evil and for justice. Buddists fail miserably. Read a tree of life diagram. All the Universal Laws and governing laws are openly stored in the void near the top, which can be accessed when you reach a certain level. These laws are in place, and will be getting stronger on earth, as much as the laws of gravity etc are in place. Natural consequences are a law, and a punishment, which the observant can notice. Guilt is one such example, if we do not look after our bodies and have self respect and pride we get fat and ill losing energy, looks and good bodies being another, bad parenting results in nightmare teens another example, drinking too much results in medical problems, addictions and lifestyle issues another, be late for work and you are in trouble another, peoples reactions to negative people another. Punishing Gods have put these in place in us and the universe, how can you not notice the link between doing wrong, and the byproducts that result upon you? This observation also helps to define what the Gods and higher realms in charge define as wrong. Ignoring law, consequences and punishments is a self destructive behaviour. I support a lot in the CWG books, a lot in the Bible, all universal laws, some manmade laws, I am not a fundamentalist, just aware and open minded. My foremost affiliations would be to the Job God as he took me on as a protege and is a neutral party (and punishing judge on call as all Gods are), and to the biblical YWHW God as I’m an israelite so have his download in my soul of righteousness and justice, and as he was the God of my ancestors and the country I live in long before I was born. Oh and that he’s worked his butt off for thousands of years for us, but as earths biggest land owner I guess he’s been paid for that work! He personally owns all chuches, church land, assets, religious schools etc.
    Kat – you should read the bible in context. Gods laws have always been for His chosen people, Israelites in Israel, primarily Jewish, and He uses the term ‘amongst you’ referring to stonings, stake burnings etc. As in these were the consequences of these actions in Israel or those living amongst groups of already settled Israelites. Their land, their rules, their God, just as I have the right to determine what can and cannot happen on my private land, and if my land becomes a country then my way becomes law. Like the middle eastern/Muslim countries.This is everyones right, look at the English monarchy. He even said they were not to consult mediums in surrounding towns, not to go and kill them. At no point did God ever tell them to punish outside of these juristictions. Witch hunts and the like were individuals freewill choice, harnessing their sadism using Gods name. Christianity is a manmade religion, ignore it and them. Also note God did not say to kill gay people, his term was ‘do not make love to a man as you would a woman’, ie sodomy. I’m sure God is smart enough to not all gay people engage in this!!
    Be aware though, that despite not believing (or fearing) in the concept of any punishing Gods, IF prophecies are all correct, and many are happening right now, then prophecies state that biblical YWHW God will come into full power over all of earth, do judgement day and punish. Not believing in this will not help, the Universe and those governing it know better than anyone here what we need, and its their call not yours. I cannot possibly fathom why you do not want the concept of punishing Gods to exist. There is so much information to study on this planet, at the end of the day there is one governing Source, and one core for everything, you should look at many different things to determine the truth and stop fearing that which you to not understand.
    NB – don’t be gullible enough to engage in the 666 sign of an evil ones name which is the peace sign if those prophecies happen, it is set up to deceive many and will. Remember the evil trinity come in peace and to make peace to gain followers prior to their destructive true plans are clear. In no way am I making implications about Neale here either, Mr 666 is not on earth and hopefully won’t be.

  • Susan

    I do not believe God is punishing America via Hurricane Sandy because God is not a Punisher. That is someone’s false, negative, and truly sad belief that any human being deserves to be punished, and for what? It’s unfortunate that some people have been brainwashed to think God is One of wrath and judgment, instead of a God of truth, love and nonjudgment. At the same time, i am thankful for these people because their ignorance has allowed this conversation to begin. We can now educate and hopefully enlighten those lost souls by providing them with the wisdom of who God really is and who They really are.

  • Kristen

    Your CWG God is not a punisher, other Gods are. Interesting that nature provides earth, the sun and seasons. The weather is always based on whom on earth is doing what, ie pollution etc. This is not to say New York cannot be the result of the wrath of Gods, but it does show that New York and other places affected by crazy weather are being affected by us/the residents of those places. If you don’t see blue skies on a regular basis you are probably going to be hit. The Gods and the universe have set this up as a self punishing system, which hopefully will correctly only target those intended, not innocent people and animals.
    Susan I understand what you mean about ignorance, but in the reverse about whom are the ignorant ones!!!!!!!! No discussion is productive if all the participants think the same, that is the origin of ignorance and brainwashing. Different opinions should open the mind, if it doesn’t, its probably a bit late. Anyway I have answered the original question several times, and my heads getting a bit sore from banging it against a brick wall, so I shall depart.

  • Buzz

    Kirsten,
    Your first sentence in response says “… I prefer to confront …” In my experience, you will find yourself in confrontation forever, until you choose differently.

    I hope you find the same peace of mind I’m looking for, as I too am regularly in confrontation, and I too have created elaborate justifications for my behaviour and attitude. You are NOT wrong or bad or evil, but neither are the people and ideas you are in confrontation with.

    “Nothing real can be harmed. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God.” -ACIM

  • Carole

    What if many of the storms happening all around the world are man created. Not by warming effect of the planet like they want us to believe?! What if someone want us to believe it is so. Then what. No body ever heard of Project HARP? It is completely located in the middle of nowhere and as security like you would not believe. They do not want the population to access the facility. What if a government uses it for depopulation?! Perfect mass destruction. Nobody to blame . Just the warming effect. Perfect cover up!

  • Lucia Ravn

    Jeg tror ikke at noen orkaner er Gud straff, hvis man isteden for at snakke med direkte med Gud snakker med orkanen dvs kobler seg til orkanens energi frekvens. Vil man få svar som følgende: At orkanen oppstår ud fra menneskers vred og misundelse – altså vår felles misnøje og misundelse, som når det bliver mange nok klager eller stor nok mengde misundelse så bliver den samlede mengde til en orkan.
    Når man først er på orkanen frekvens så er det faktisk mulig at hjelpe orkanen slik at den setter farten ned.
    Vi har altså kort sagt en opgave hver enklt med at udtrykke mere kjærlighet.
    for at minske antall orkaner og deres styrke.

    ***ENGLISH TRANSLATION:

    I do not think any hurricanes are God punishment, if instead of that talk directly with God talking with hurricane thats connects to the hurricane energy frequency. If you want to get answers to the following: That hurricane occurs ud from the wrath and envy of hands – that is our common misnøje and envy of contents, as when clamor enough people complain or large enough amount of envy clamor else so the total amount of a hurricane.
    Once one is on hurricane frequency so it is indeed possible that help the hurricane so that it sets the pace down.
    We are thus in short, a task that each Some people will udtrykke more love.
    that reduce the number of hurricanes and their strength.