Worldwide Discussion:
SANITY RETURNS TO THE STATE OF WASHINGTON AS GOVERNMENT
STOPS KILLING PEOPLE

Noticing that its application is “inconsistent and unequal,” Jay Inslee has decided to oppose the death penalty.

Mr. Inslee is not the first person to come to this conclusion. Indeed, people have been pointing this out for many years. He is also not the first person to decide that he opposes the death penalty because of it. But he is the first person to come to this conclusion and to reach this decision who happens to be the governor of one of the United States.

As a result, that State — Washington — has, effective February 11, stopped using its governing authority to kill people in an execution chamber…at least for the next three years. By executive order, Mr. Inslee has imposed a moratorium on carrying out the death penalty as long as he is in office. His current term expires in 1016.

Why would anybody in the United States — particularly anybody in a position of political power whose ability to hold onto that power depends upon the approval of voters — oppose the death penalty, which has been an American institution for so many years?

“There are too many flaws in the system,” Mr. Inslee is quoted in media reports as saying, adding that when the ultimate decision is death “there is too much at stake to accept an imperfect system.”

Um….uh….do you think?

The mystery is not why one courageous person would risk his political future by doing what is obviously right — but why every governor in the nation is not doing the same thing.

The State of Texas, for instance, reportedly leads the nation in putting people to death — and by some accounts and appearances the largest number of that state’s residents seem to be proud of that. “Texas justice,” some have been known to call it.

Yet not only justice, but “equal justice under the law” is the primary responsibility of any government, Washington’s governor asserts, then adds that in death penalty cases he is “not convinced equal justice is being served.”

Mr. Inslee is quoted in press accounts as observing that the use of the death penalty in his state has been so unequally applied that it was even “sometimes dependent on the budget of the county where the crime occurred.”

That kind of disparity is, of course, unconscionable, and Mr. Inslee has realized this. Fortunately, there is no other state in America where the death penalty is or has ever been unequally applied.

Um….well….maybe it has…but just once in a while, just now and then…so what does it matter? Well, it doesn’t seem to matter, as few governors or state legislatures in the United States have done what Mr. Inslee has just done, which is to simply announce: that’s enough. No more state-sponsored killing on my watch.

While 32 states in the U.S. still authorize the death penalty, Maryland became the most recent state, prior to Washington, to end executions when it repealed its death penalty law outright in 2013.

Two years earlier Gov. John Kitzhaber put a moratorium on all executions in Oregon. And eight years prior to that, in 2003, Illinois Gov. George Ryan commuted all death penalties to life sentences.

But, as noted above, many states in America still kill people as a means of punishment — and they do not always do it mercifully.

Much news was made just a few weeks ago when the State of Ohio was widely accused of having badly botched the execution of a man convicted of murder named Dennis McGuire by using a lethal injection made up of a combination of chemicals that had never been tried before.

According to one journalist who witnessed the execution, the condemned man “struggled, made guttural noises, gasped for air and choked” before succumbing to a new, two-drug execution method.

In an online story about the execution, the Guardian newspaper news article said “Eyewitnesses in the death chamber reported that it took up to 26 minutes for McGuire to die, making it the longest execution in Ohio in modern times.“

The Guardian story went on to say that “the prisoner was seen to be gasping for air for up to 14 minutes in a procedure that one observer, Lawrence Hummer, described in the Guardian as horrendous and inhumane.”

Some medical experts had warned the state that the “death cocktail” would cause slow oxygen starvation, resulting in not just death for the criminal, but prolonged suffering, amounting to cruel and unusual punishment.

The state refused to listen to those opinions, or to the appeal of the criminal to at least postpone the execution until the injection had been tried on animals. It went ahead with the procedure, and the result, as described above, made headlines around the world.

At least one family member of the person the criminal had murdered appeared by press accounts to be not particularly concerned with reports of Mr. McGuire’s alleged suffering, reportedly saying to the media that the person Mr. McGuire was convicted of killing was also not spared suffering.

The spiritual question raised by all of this, of course, is whether the highest or grandest spiritual value to which humanity can aspire in cases such as this is “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.”

Billions of humans embrace this notion of justice — many, if not most, of them declaring that it is a concise articulation of God’s Law. God, these believers declare, imposes just this kind of justice on all human beings at the moment of their death.

In your belief system, is this true? And where do you stand on the death penalty, regardless of what you believe about God?

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  • The death penalty.

    It’s an imperfect punishment within an imperfect system within an imperfect society.

    If it’s done in a condemnatory energy as opposed to humane & compassionate energy, that is a energy signal that expands outward toward the collective society. It effects those family members the most it would seem & on from there.

    I think we realize, that as we evolve & advance more, we will see much less of this kind of mentality.

    It’s interesting to me that in the talk circuit media world both public radio & tv, cable, commercial & alternative & internet shows, talking about what would a more advanced civilization or society do is very rare. I acknowledge there are exceptions of course, but probably not many.

    When you start to hear those questions more, I’m guessing society is transitioning more toward that advancing spiritual renaissance we are visualizing & moving toward.

  • Dragos Oroitor

    Any kind of punishment is INEFFICIENT!Was and is for ALLWAYS! My God is unconditional LOVE! ♥ 🙂

  • Dragos Oroitor

    Thank YOU Neale, for oppening this very IMPORTANT SUBJECT! ♥

  • Blake

    Neale,

    It’s interesting that you bring up the death penalty no wonder as you said in “The
    Storm before the Calm” that this material is dangerous stuff with people
    holding on to their old stories around crime, punishment and God.

    When I had this conversation with a Muslim friend of mine he
    couldn’t let go of his feeling that punishment for crimes against God should
    not go scot-free; that the fabric of society would fall into
    self-will-run-riot. He was told that humans are born inherently evil and
    without the death penalty everyone would kill everyone else.

    The danger of Conversations with God (CWG) there is no punishment after death, nor any punishment for any karmic debt whatsoever. This is hard for people to hear mainly I feel because many people enjoy violence against perpetrators for the need to get even. It’s obvious that this is true for the Man that was the family of the victim, he seemed happy for the outcome to the man suffering before his death.

    CWG also states that there are no victims and no perpetrators and according to your book “The Little Soul and the Sun” the perpetrator is innocent and had agreed to end the life of the victim so that the victim could enjoy a way of being it decided to experience as CWG said, no one does anything inappropriate, given the model of the world.

    I wonder how each soul that experiences capital punishment
    no matter what side they be on, touches one another in the final account?

    Blessings

    • What you need to consider Blake is that there is a “consequence” to all our actions. Be they consequences of current law & the vibrational consequence of the Law of Attraction & the energy out put. We do not escape consequences.

      Another thing that you are not considering is that person who seems to play the victim be it a starving child or a criminal etc. is that their role may be for you to help prevent them from experiencing more of what they are experiencing. They did not come to die, but to help you save them so they don’t have to die or starve etc.

      Further, it can be dangerous to assume what another soul’s agenda is, when we often don’t know our own let alone others.

      However, that said, Neale has developed a technique called the soul logic process. That allows a person to decide for themselves though proper guidance of this technique to find out what the soul reason for a particular experience may be.

      • Michael L

        Sorry could I ask a question please, Marko.

        Could you explain what ,
        “They did not come to die, but to help you save them so they don’t have to die or starve etc.” Means?
        What kind of consciousness we would need to understand we were saving them.

        I thought no thing dies without it’s consent in some way conscious or unconsciously? Can I make that judgement, or just be Who I Am giving love to the victim and the perpetrator, without expectation of results?

        • My point Michael was instead of assuming that a persons spiritual agenda on a soul or agreement level is to let them suffer, die or starve that maybe the agreement is to help them out of their predicament not allow it to continue. That’s their gift to you/us etc.

          • Michael L

            So Marko,
            Lets see if I have this “correct”. I would let them follow their path unless they came in contact with me and then I could “Saved” them for my/our betterment. Unless they really did want to die or suffer as their journey. Hmm…….That’s a lot of assuming.
            Why not just observe what is happening right then and there and make my action a loving one, and let the chips fall where the souls will take it. Without assuming anything, one way or another.
            Unless I’m clairvoyant and know the results ahead of time.

            Thank you for clarifying this subject for me.
            Blessings,
            Michael

          • Yes you can do that.

            There is a lot of assuming with spiritual concepts. The Little Soul & the sun story assume that a type of sacred contract for forgiveness was made. Thus, we project that type or similar concept to others. I’m merely expanding on that. That the reason for their particular experience is in part to help us by helping them. That may be both on a collective & individual level.

      • Blake

        I can’t get past the idea that it is all an illusion, a game we are all playing. I Find it difficult to accept that people would rather believe the illusion so that they can experience consequences rather than say, “Here try this on for a second. See how it feels, good , bad, indifferent?”

        Blessings

        • It’s way more than an illusion or game, it is life. And the illusions are very purposeful. As we evolve we learn to use the illusions, not to be used by them.

          We realize Blake, that as we awake, we see we don’t have to have the negatives as we have them now. They are there for contrasts, but we awake to decide we can also have contrasts of good, great, wonderful etc. Further, we have signed on to this experience I believe, to grow out of the negativity into much less negativity, to none if we choose. We start this as individuals, than groups, than the collective.

          The game analogy is apt for those who understand & are growing in their spiritual understanding & advancement. To those less aware it is less useful & perhaps even dangerous to their current understandings & inappropriate to use this idea for those not ready. That’s of course, my feeling on the matter.

          Instead, I’d start simply by saying life offers us choice & decisions that we can use & misuse & guide those to use their life as a positive influence for themselves & others.

          Hope this helps.

  • Erin

    I like the logic rising…Always nice to See.

    The penalty thing. It would be nice if We did not categorize by vertical prioritizing, first off…sort of like playing Family Feud.
    There is harm to one/One, or there is not. All other creatures upon this globe measure their participation as this, why should Human be different? If one is deemed as dangerous to their lot, it is either sent away from the safety of the Society or killed…Immediately. ‘This way’ seems to work well in maintaining quality of Life & balance…but then, humans are not so astute with the balance thing, nor good managers of quality in much of anything these days…Obviously.

    Would not ‘spirituality’ See no death? Rather, acknowledgement of an askewity, & a relative solution toward the Whole moving in a different direction? This would not be for revenge or ill-will, simply a process of wiser maintenance using constantly evolving understanding as such opportunities arise.

    In moving from one way of being to another, there seems to be a ‘correction time’…No one wants to be the director of operations, the cleaner-upper, or part of the waste management crew during such time, but they are jobs that need done for the process to keep going. We do not seem to find difficulty in doing this of other species, or cultures, who have done no harm…just with those that do? Would one not call This an askewity that could use correcting?

    I have no faith or trust in present judicial ways…Full of holes…Loopholes. True Justice would find no use of these…mpo, of course.

  • Carina Aduddell

    The people that justify the death penalty by saying it’s what God would want are certainly not praising the same God I am. It’s not enough that we keep people caged like animals? Yes they’ve done horrible things..but does that justify the action for the government to do something horrible to them? What about treating others the way you want to be treated? If I make a mistake..I would hope others would be willing and able to forgive me for any harm I may have caused them. I would like think many would agree if they were in the same situation.

  • mewabe

    Most of society is theater…everyone playing a part that has very little to do with who s/he is and what reality is. It is all smoke and mirror, while society dances madly to the consistent drumming of fearful beliefs.

    Obviously, the death penalty has nothing to do with deterrence, although that is its official justification. It has everything to do with revenge, pay back, punishment. Why else would a victim’s family want to see an execution?

    Texas justice…Judge Roy Bean style…hang them high and ask questions later.
    “If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell.”
    Sheridan

    We no longer burn alive, dismember and disembowel people on the public square, so we have evolved a little. But I think God went for a very long nap, and just before falling asleep he said: “Humans, wake me up when you have made some substantial progress, I don’t need to see these little baby step every century or so.” I am not God but I feel the same way. I would rather watch wallpaper peel, there would be more action.

  • Awareness

    Personally I don’t believe in judgement and punishment. I don’t believe in the death penalty 🙂

    And the following remembrances come to mind:

    2nd Remembrance: “YOU are the cause of your own death. This is always true, NO MATTER WHERE, or HOW, you die.”

    11th Remembrance: “The timing and the circumstances of death are ALWAYS perfect.”

    3rd Remembrance: “You cannot die against your will.” – “Home with God” by Neale Donald Walsch 🙂

    Bless ALL 🙂

  • mewabe

    By the way I love the headline…right on the mark!
    If the mainstream press had integrity and courage, that’s the kind of headlines we would see…

  • In all things be they political, ethical, spiritual, medical, scientific, religious or otherwise, always, as this prime directive question ask:

    “What would a highly evolved society do?”

    Let that be the leading prime directive question for all talk shows, news media etc. What would happen if this was the focus question held in the minds of the world?

    • Gina

      Yes. First it has to be the prime directive purpose of the world to be highly evolved.

    • mewabe

      Asking the question “What would a highly evolved society do?” implies that the person asking is not evolved, and has to question himself or herself before taking action.

      It is the same as asking “What would love do?” Hmmm…okay, if a person does not know what love would do, then, perhaps, rather than asking the question and attempting to mimic love, that person might want to think about OPENING his or her heart and FEEL and BE love.

      The same thing with evolution…we cannot “guess” what evolution would look like and try to mimic that if we are not evolved, and even if we could, the mimicry would by definition be phony, kind of like political correctness is. So rather than asking what an evolved society would do, perhaps we should start by defining what evolution is, and then work individually and collectively to get there.

      And the problem is….that evolution means different things to different people. As far as I can tell, most of humanity is under the illusion of having pursued a form of evolution throughout history…from living in caves to using electronic gadgets, from superstition to science, from burning people alive for religious reasons to…burying people alive for homosexuality because of religious reasons (okay that’s a very bad example of “evolution” I admit).

      Love is often taken out of spiritual formulas of evolution…people speak of “higher consciousness” and other mystical, nebulous concepts, when all that is really needed for a human to be “evolved”, meaning to be what s/he should be, is for the heart to open up completely, for the soul to awaken, and for the heart and soul to be well connected to the mind, and the body to follow. It’s not that complicated, it’s not mysterious.

      That’s the meaning of the cross within a circle, which is the same as the four directions within a circle. The circle represents unification as well as the oneness of the whole universe that, like a circle, is without beginning or end, and the cross or four directions represent heart/mind/body/spirit. This the oldest spiritual symbol throughout all original indigenous cultures.

      The center of the cross is the divine Self, the “Christ” within all of us, and the connection to the divine Self is thru love (the awakened “Sacred Heart”). Again, even Christian myths and symbology are very clear when looked at with open eyes rather than through literal interpretation and rigid religious dogma.

      Most animals are more evolved than we are precisely because they can LOVE. That’s why we like them so much, and why we wish we were like them, capable of unconditional love as they are.

      In my world, that’s what evolution means, and it is within IMMEDIATE reach, right at the very center of our own hearts. Love is the ultimate source of knowledge, of intelligence, of healing and of problem solving.

      Yet, for some reasons which have to do with a widespread inability to truly love, to truly open’s one heart completely, most of humanity thinks love is not enough…that there has to be more to it than that. That is because most of humanity does not really know love…most of people’s heart is well guarded, well defended, closed.. and only partially open to a few under strict conditions.

      That is not love…that is commerce, an agreement, a contract. We are where we are because humanity does not trust itself, it does not trust what it is…an expression of love.

      • Gina

        Asking the question engages the mind and invites the invisible faculties to come to our aid. Nothing wrong with by asking the question we acknowledge we are not highly evolved. Highly evolved is limitless and make it as you go anyway. It’s not phony and it’s not mimicry, it’s asking and receiving. While emphasizing the importance of the heart of the matter don’t underestimate the mind and its ability to summon source energies and soul faculties. I don’t think the society is burying the homosexual alive in an attempt to be highly evolved. They have not studied or researched on the subject or have the desire and are just following tradition. If anyone is not following their heart the problem is in the mind . They don’t have the mind to look at what’s true in the heart and listen to that. A problem can only be solved at the level it exists. So I think asking questions is a good way of getting answers and challenging stagnant systems as well as warding off of those people who want to talk about the Bible.

        • I share & agree with much of what you say here.

        • mewabe

          I did not mean to say that people kill homosexuals in an attempt to be evolved, even though they believe that following their religious dogma leads them to a higher place. But I was sarcastic…

          My point is that anyone who TRULY FEELS would not be able to kill, to execute another human being. Anyone whose heart is OPEN, and who consequently and spontaneously has compassion, empathy, sensitivity, would not be ABLE to carry or to support such an act REGARDLESS OF BELIEFS.

          So the problem, as I see it, is not so much about beliefs systems as it is about an INABILITY FOR HUMANITY TO FEEL COMPLETELY, to have an open heart, as it should.

          What do we try to protect children from some harsh realities such as adult brutality and violence? BECAUSE, HAVING AN OPEN, SENSITIVE, FEELING HEART, THEY ARE KNOWN TO BE VULNERABLE. As compared to a FEELING CHILD, most adults are like battleships, made of TOUGH, reinforced material that lets nothing get through.

          And this, in my eyes, is the problem…not the mind, not thoughts, not beliefs, but a closed heart, a dead heart of stone. NO BELIEFS, no matter how destructive, misleading, COULD TRUMP OR MISLEAD AN OPEN, FEELING, VULNERABLE, LIVING HEART.

          And it is precisely because most people do not feel enough that they think love is not enough, that the answer has to be in the mind.

          • Gina

            Yes, that’s what I was saying too. The heart’s way is the way. Adult minds are hardened war veterans and extremely reluctant to open their heart and remain vulnerable. It’s because they were trained to never be off guard. Because loving is losing. This needs reverse training and asking a question what would love do now can be the key that starts the engine.

          • mewabe

            Thanks, yes we agree…the power of love is not well known, yet it is the greatest power in the universe. Whenever I look at a personal or world problem, I can see love has not been allowed its voice to be heard and felt…

      • My point was this question or related ones is, that it is missing from much of the dialog we hear today. Yes much like “What would love do?”

        If we had questions like this we may have people complain that “All we do is talk about what an evolved society would do & we still can’t make up our minds.”

        That’s a complaint I’d prefer to hear, that would still mean we are working & playing to better our situation. It would focus things more & get us closer to the heart of what we desire. It may even force us to think more clearly on what it is we desire for society.

      • flojones

        The core of every man is love. A love so huge so beautiful so overwhelmming that it falls in love with anything that enters its awareness. The desire of this love is to give love as much as possible to express and experience what it is. And this love which is God is a magic wand, The magic wand we’ve all dreamed to have in our hands and use at will.
        Inside a man the first thing that love is aware of is the mind. It weren’t a problem (if there is one) if we didn’t learn our children that ouside of them the world is dangerous, incontrolable and can’t be loved. So love is inconsciously and almost exclusively focus on the mind namely the fearful ego.
        Love says yes to anything that goes through the mind because it loves the mind, it can’t help it, it’s its nature to love. So it creates what it is asked by the mind. Behind any creation there is love as a creator and as a feeling. But we can’t be aware of the feeling if we don’t expect to feel it. What people don’t realize yet is that when they create suffering it is because they love it but are still uncouscious of it. If they didn’t love their suffering they wouldn’t create and experience it. It would be impossible.
        However the problem (if there is one) is not to love suffering, being a victim, powerlessness, superiority, insecurity, unhappiness, despondancy, ignorance, separatness, fear, pride, anger, poverty, the problem (if there is one) is that people denie and can’t admit that they really love suffering, being a victim, powerlessness, superiority, insecurity, unhappiness, despondancy, ignorance, separatness, fear, pride, anger, poverty.
        Only the acceptance and feeling of our love for our own suffering is healing and then enable us to focus our freed love where we choose.
        Blessings

  • mewabe

    Here is an unrelated and probably very annoying comment (my specialty):

    Having a few minutes to spare, I recently read through the different categories, different authors and articles on this site. I hadn’t done this in a long time…

    Some of the authors seem to have their own mind, their own thoughts, their own logic, individual expressions, and to come to their own conclusions.

    Others (i will not name anyone) quote a passage from one of Neale’s book in every paragraph, in almost every sentence. Strangely, they remind me of how Christians quote the Bible…perhaps because many of them are former or reformed Christians, and they have kept the habit of referring to authority to find their way in life. At any rate they come across, I am sorry to say, as if they did not have the ability to think for themselves.

    This may sound like a harsh criticism, but it is so obvious to me that I cannot not express it…

    I can only speak for myself, but if I was someone who teachers, and let’s say I taught spirituality, and found or heard people quoting me at every turn, I would most likely say to them:
    “I truly appreciate the fact that I was able to communicate and share something with you, and your admiration for what I wrote or said greatly humbles me, but please, do not follow me in any way, because that is the surest way for you to get lost…find your own path, your own way, your own words, your own thoughts, your own expression, as my greatest desire is not to create clones of myself, perfect little followers who repeat everything I say, but to empower people to manifest and express their unique being…so after you have read or heard everything I had to say, chew on it, digest it, and then expel it completely, and find and express your own unique truth, as none of us are alike, or meant to be.”

    The same if I taught art, or music, or writing. Having perfect followers can be very flattering and perhaps even quite inebriating to a teacher, but it is a false, illusory approach, as it does not empower others but makes them mentally, emotionally and psychologically dependent while stunting their growth.

    One of the difference between the true spiritual path and the religious path is that the first is a personal, individual undertaking, requiring being a trailblazer and your own authority, while the second is a group proposition that only demands that you be the obedient follower of a person of authority or of an authoritative text that can so easily and quickly morph from theology into dogma, not necessarily by the will of the author, but because of the attitude and needs of the followers themselves.

    • Michael L

      Hi Mewabe,
      What in a human experience, is a person’s ability to be thinking for them selves?

      You gave 2 examples, one person using words from some books they have read, and the other from books they have read. I don’t see the difference as to who they are. Now what they do with all that collected experience is up for debate. Each isn’t a monotone by the words they use. It’s just what they have accumulated up until now!!! That’s one reason why we converse to measure Who We Are.

      • mewabe

        When you think with your soul, you think for yourself, as the soul is unique and has its own unique language and expression, its own vision, its own song and dance.

        When you think with your mind, you think from conditioning. Some of that is unconscious, automatic. But when people willingly and consciously seek knoweldge outside of themselves, and place authority in something other than their own soul (which is sovereign and complete in being and in expression), they then betray themselves…without understanding what they are doing, because, again, of a social conditioning that takes the power and the sovereignty of the soul out of the individual to replace that with obedience, with placing the power outside of the individual, into an institution, a book, a leader, a religion or ideology, any authority but the self.

        • Michael L

          Well you could have said that first you know!!!!!

          • mewabe

            Yes I understand…I am not perfect, thank God…I am only human, and not perfect in my expressions…I don’t use linear thinking…more like going in circles, by associations 🙂

    • Gina

      I can be said to come from Christianity and read the Bible a lot, but could never quote anything in it in a meaningful way. That’s because I could not relate to it in a meaningful way. I’m kind of passive and introverted by nature, and in school was a don’t break any rules, don’t like school, don’t dislike school, carry your bag and get by type of nobody. I wasn’t force fed anything in a religious way or any other way, and I don’t try to fit in in any way, I don’t know why I didn’t grow to be a bit of a trailblazer. That doesn’t make me an obedient follower, though. If anyone is using someone’s words in a book it can be because they strongly resonate with it and aren’t diligent enough to invent new expressions. I felt this explicitly and implicitly critical point from you a lot, not that it was specifically directed towards me. People can think for themselves and speak similarly for consensus reasons. That’s how organized religion have the power of organization. Thinking similarly and speaking in one voice. We–people who seem to obediently follow Neale –get that. You don’t have to keep driving the point into people’s head and over time it has been portraying you as a very critical and cynical person not unlike someone religiously dogmatic. Different in content but same in attitude.

      • mewabe

        Different personalities are attracted to different things. I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong in being a follower, if that’s what fits a personality temporarily, and if it is a conscious choice. However when it comes from conditioning, it may not be the best way. It works for organized religions however, as you point out, and as I pointed out as well.

        But who needs another religion?

        Christians do have a tendency to look for a shepherd…but so do many others, including those who follow a political ideology, or who seek enlightenment from a guru or good old Indian wisdom from a plastic medicine man.

        Spirituality is another matter, and has nothing to do with the pursuit of consensus, or group thinking (a contradiction in terms) as it is an individual pursuit. And that is what I was addressing. It seems to me that Neale may have unwittingly cornered himself in a paradoxical position, a place of contradiction, creating a new theology and cosmology and a new God for people to follow while telling them to listen to their own inner truth.

        Spirituality is about the spirit…it is about the awakening of the spirit. The spirit is all knowing. Each one of us has, within, all the answers to all of the questions we can possibly imagine. We have our own answers, our own truths. Unlike what they told us in school, we did not come into this life as a blank slate. We already have our own unique insights and ways to uncover our own knowledge.

        The role of the true teacher, in my opinion, is not to give students “one size fits all” predigested answers, but to ask the questions that will trigger the awakening of this part of the self that knows, within each of us, the answers. That’s the empowering method…that’s how Native Americans taught their children, and each child was strongly encouraged to find his or her own vision, his or her own song or expression.

        This is not cynicism…this is an important point when it comes to actual spirituality. Of course, for the religious seeker, that’s not an important matter.

        Yes, I am critical, of everything…I never stop using critical thinking. There is so little of it being used out there that it is actually mind blowing. I look at things from all angles, including upside down and inside out, and particularly scrutinize anything that begins to smell like dogma (for example, the New Age is full of new dogma).

        Criticism and dogmatism are not compatible…I am not selling anyone any “truth”, any method, any new theology, any new God, any discipline, any dogma. I invite people to question everything at all times, and find their own answers. That’s not a dogma, it’s called using your mental faculties.

        I personally do not relate to any spiritual school or method or discipline, as all of them are limited precisely by the fact that they do not allow the part of the soul that already knows, that is sovereign, to trust and express itself in a unique way, but demand an obedient following to such school, or method or discipline, or theology.

        I have the same criticism towards gurus, and all who give people answers rather than give them questions, which would allow them to have their own insights, using their own intuition and their own inner knowledge.

        When you follow a path that has been carved by another, you fail to develop the spiritual faculties that would awaken you to your true self, to your all knowing soul, which is at once your path and your actual goal. And so there is the contradiction, and the knot that ties all who follow another or who follow a preexisting way, or discipline, or theology, or method.

        • Gina

          Quoting someone is not following them. If anyone truly listened to religion or new age they wouldn’t star worship particular individuals in it. Seeking without can lead you within, as the larger part of new age encourages you to go within. There are few totally original methods that you can invent and call your own. Meditation, for example, is called many other names and differ in detail, but is as old as time and is a prerequisite to accessing beyond the conscious mind. Because it is a well established method and I don’t wanna follow the beaten track should I reinvent it, rename it? Asking a critical question is great. What’s the point of repeating the same thing over and over in this particular space? Personally I feel falsely accused, insulted and stupid by someone hammering at a point that I am going following a guru. Or are you jealous of Neale?? Why not go to all the places where a group of people are following a leader and tell them to follow their heart? It is very easy to drop out of establishments and declare yourself your own person, independent thinker. It doesn’t make you independent arranging a hippie lifestyle and preaching to others to be free of dogma. Often it takes a greater person follow through a set course of behavior work within the establishment to achieve mastery and effect change. Society rewards those with a college degree with better paying jobs for their ability to persevere, follow through, get along and work within the system. It is easy to have the attitude, ‘ you can’t fire me, I quit,’ but that doesn’t solve anything. It doesn’t place you in control quitting before getting fired and you will probably encounter the same problem and come to the same point of contention with just the faces changed. I experienced this first hand. Until you personally spiritually solve the problem quitting is just so self defeating. Often poeople you deem as sheeple have more inner strength and independence than those seemingly on their own. Cause they stayed, crashed and burned, and resurrected, the challenge freelancers avoided and never overcame.

          • mewabe

            Gina, I am truly sorry if you feel personally attacked, as I did not mean to do that. But I must have done something to make you feel this way, so for that I am sorry. Yet you may have jumped to conclusion and disregarded the finer points I was trying to make regarding the all knowing inner spirit or soul, the only guide we really need.

            I am not a hippie, as that again would be belonging to a group…and I have never belonged to any group or joined any form of collective thought.

            Meditation is not a prerequisite to accessing beyond the conscious mind…you can use dreams, creativity, automatic writing, any number of things, dreams and creativity being the most unique and individual.

            That is my point…the soul is not only all knowing, it is extremely supple and flexible, and absolutely free, and does not travel well within a path that is carved in stone. The mind on the other hand loves the security of rigidity.

            Now since you asked me if I was jealous of Neale, I suppose I should answer: Oh yes! (I am just kidding). No, I respect Neale enormously, but I wouldn’t want to be him or to be in his position, anymore than he would want to be me or in my position…I am very happy being myself, and I am sure he is very happy being himself.

            The way I see it, Neale is totally himself…I am not sure the people who follow everything he says word for word know how to be themselves, however. That was my point, as you seem to know by now.

            As far as society rewarding people who work within the system, who comply, who conform, I do not see this as a sign of personal success. Circus animals are also rewarded when they behave according to the demands of their trainers. Is that success?

            But you are right, why should I be here? I definitively do not belong to this group anymore than I belong to any other group, by choice. I find dialogues about spirituality interesting, but I have a hard time tolerating followers, of anything, whether it is a fashion trend, a TV sitcom, or a way of thinking. I am always on the quest for original thinkers, to have a dialogue with them, not with their fans or imitators.

          • Gina

            I admire you and Neale for striking out on your own early on in life and being active and passionate. Differing voices enlarge the scope of a conversation… wait, think I read it somewhere. Who am I to say you should or shouldn’t be here. Could it be that one’s state of originality is at different levels regarding different areas? For example, master chefs identify themselves with their creativity in culinary art their originality in this regard. Even in this case there are no truly original dishes and everything is a reconstruction. They might not care about fashion much and copy someone else in dress code. I am like that. I don’t care about clothes, go clothes shopping and just grab anything nearest. If a camel coat happened to be upfront because it’s the latest I would grab it and others would think I’m following latest fashion. When indeed i don’t have much interest in fashion. In other areas I pursue originality- some crafts, cooking, sewing, writing(on my field if expertise), drawing… not everyone is spiritually original and well versed and they don’t want to be. With all due respect I still feel a large part of your criticism is undue and gratuitous. Anyway I don’t have to go on defensively like this. I don’t see myself as a circus animal by doing well within an establishment and being less than original in spiritual authorship. I view it as just that- doing well in an establishment and perhaps imitating a little in other areas than my primary source of identification as a creative being.

          • mewabe

            Thank you Gina, you are very kind…Yes, I was a little harsh…I am always passionate about things, it can be good and bad. I think it’s in my blood…

            But I was not criticizing anyone who posts comments here (at least not this time)…I had just read an article by one of the contributing authors, in the “categories” section. And this person came across, by using Neale’s exact phrasing in every paragraph and almost every sentence, as a “minister” of “Neale’s Church” rather than as a free thinking individual. It was a bit too much for me…

            I don’t think that such is Neale’s intention or teaching.

            Anyway I do react to this sort of thing rather strongly, as you were able to tell. It comes from a certain amount of anger towards religion, Christianity in particular, even though I do not have a Christian background and never set foot in a church or read one line of the Bible.

          • Kristen

            Narcissist! You aren’t superior to others with different, yet just as strong views and beliefs, and nor are Native Americans. Each race and sub-race is made different, as it every individual.

          • mewabe

            I do not remember saying or inferring that I was superior to anyone, and you are not raising or maintaining the level of the dialogue by attempting to get personal.

            It seems that my attitude or thoughts offend you…and so you strike back because feeling personally attacked. But if you were really sure, really confident about your own choices and path, you would not feel threatened by anything or anyone in any way. Unprovoked attacks merely serve to reveal a lack of self confidence.

            So my advice is for you to look within and see why you feel attacked or threatened by me, as I did not attack you, because it is a part of you that most likely needs healing, and I am saying this in the most compassionate way (remember Kristen, we are all wounded in one way or another).

          • Kristen

            No, again I’m not offended. Spirituality is being open to and understanding others beliefs which I do, and I constantly get the impression that you do not. I am merely trying to point out that there are many paths, religions, sub-species, Gods and deities. Some more informed or superior in some aspects, some in others but you cannot single out that the only one that is most compatible with you as an individual is the most superior and diss most others and people who differ from you. If you look back on many of your threads you will read how I and some others read YOU. You have said several times that you think anyone different to you or Native Americans are stupid, misinformed, primitive etc. That is all I am commenting on. Sorry if it reads otherwise.

            You are completely wrong about me in writing above, I have such faith and convictions that I have no issues in that aspect. You are very misinformed if you believe new agey information about people feeling threatened, needing healing etc if they are confident enough to call a spade a spade and point out to someone that they are being an arssse; sometimes people need to hear it. My only intention in here when I bring up my path or Kabbalah is to point out that God is the God of Law and the Universal punisher so for people to be careful even if they don’t believe it, and that we are all on the Tree of Life which is in every religion and old culture on Earth. Commonalities to us all, not differences.

          • mewabe

            Kristen, I do want to get into a pointless argument, but read your comment again, and you will see your contradictions.

            To resume and make it clear for you I quote:
            “I am merely trying to point out that there are many paths, religions, sub-species, Gods and deities. Some more informed or superior in some aspects, some in others but you cannot single out that the only one that is most compatible with you as an individual is the most superior and diss most others and people who differ from you.”

            Then add:
            “…to point out that God is the God of Law and the Universal punisher so for people to be careful even if they don’t believe it, and that we are all on the Tree of Life which is in every religion and old culture on Earth.”

            So you tell me that I should not believe that my way is the only way (and I do not believe this, it is the only way for me, others have the liberty to do as they please), while you state that your God is the true and only true God, the God of law and “punisher”, and that people who do not believe this or pay attention will suffer the consequences.

            You are saying that I should not criticize others for their ways, while you criticize those who believe differently than you do or who act in a way you disapprove (“call a spade a spade and point out to someone that they are being an arssse; sometimes people need to hear it”), including Neale above, going as far as telling him what to do on his own site, which is a little arrogant, wouldn’t you say?

            I really wish you all the best in your journey Kristen, and do not wish to engage in a war of words with you, or anyone else for that matter. You have the freedom not to read my comments if you do not like them. Have an ice-cream instead, and stay happy.

          • Gina

            Mewabe, that’s a great idea; instead of feeling riled up about someone criticizing or hijacking a thread I can go to the beach or eat ice cream instead! This is the great functional benefit of the brand of 24/7 critical thinking that you do– you actually get to apply what you know.

          • mewabe

            Yes, or you may want to try to figure out why you feel personally attacked or criticized when no one attacks or criticizes you personally, but this would require more effort.

          • Gina

            I worked and was able to scrape meager evidence as to why. So far the conclusion is that I lack a feeling sense of everything and can’t tell truth and falsity at a deeper level. I am relying on a broken lie detector for important investigations.

          • mewabe

            You could find a used lie detector in good condition on ebay…and then there is always 1800psychics. I heard Tibetan oracles are good but they charge an arm and a leg of lamb…

      • Kristen

        Hi Gina – how are you? Reading this part of the thread as an observer – YOU GO GIRL!!!! Your responses are beautifully put and explained, and at this point you are the perfect person in here to engage in this sub-thread with Mewabe.

        I have one problem – your comment about school and being a ‘get by no-body’. Few enjoy school – I left at 15 but luckily with the qualifications I needed unless going to University, in the mid 80’s the world was out oyster with or without University, everyone got a job in their chosen field – me it was being a superficial Travel Agent bimbo. I was normal at school – we didn’t have a strong ‘cool or beauty’ based school system as American TV wasn’t dominant yet, we were all quite normal BUT I had lots of different friends. My main weekend social and lunchtime group of mainly coolish hottish boys older than us, part-time job work friends, a Jehovah Witness, a Mormon, a Jewish guy, girl guides and childhood buddies – most probably acquaintences more than friends but the person at school I now wish I’d been good friends with was my year nerd/no-body who appeared to have no friends other than her older brother – tall and skinny (like me), fuzzy hair, buck teeth and wanted to be a vet. I remember in gym she slipped over and broke her tail bone and I was the only one not to laugh at her and to get the teacher, I remember talking to her like anyone else and her being kind of mortified at engaging in idle chit chat, I remember phoning her in tears at night when I didn’t even know her well when my pregnant cat got run over to ask if I should try to somehow save the kittens (she said no) and her telling my friends why I was off school crying for two days, but most of all I remember how every lunchtime she was studying in the library at a table with other geeks – heads buried in books not really talking. Us cooler people just pretended to need a book on wet days so the nerdy moniters would let us in. Long story but the point of it is that as a semi cool kid with semi cool friends and a busy social life I kind of wanted to be friends with such an interesting, animal loving person. Now I look back and think what inner strength, confidence, pride and personality the library nerds like Kim were, how warm they were every lunchtime when we froze, how they always had other people around without even trying or having to form bonds, what interesting conversations they must have had whilst we were talking clothes and boys (assuming they spoke). I am now jealous of the ‘nobodys’ at school, and wish I had had the balls to be a part of their group, or non-group. I may have even been able to make them laugh, if I believe in miracles. I have an odd memory for people – I absorb information about people and even from kindergarten I can still tell you the names of siblings, where everyone lived, what they were good and bad at, whos’ mum was fat/skinny/beautiful/ugly/young/old BUT now I am old (haha), trust me – the nobodys are the most interesting people on this planet. They/you have as many experiences as others, just different and not in the public eye. And without the ‘nobodys’ this world would be the same as a world without commercial food farmers – everyone except the nobodys and the farmers would be dead for they are the cogs in life that keep the wheels turning for those who are too lazy/poor/disabled/selfish/old/young/stupid/intelligent etc to do much for themselves. The reasons, brain function, spiritual manifestion of sub-conscious into physical aspects of life that makes people not interesting in fashion and the ‘norms’ (to me) is hugely interesting – you have no idea what drives the way you are and how interesting it all is to study, and how strong both the psyche-ology (deliberate ways into our souls from above) and man made psychology is. What you perceive to be boring or nothing are some of the most interesting things to study, and are dominant aspects in the most interesting people. I don’t think you will understand or even believe this. I can only liken it to a person who wears barefeet rather than shoes like everyone else – anyone with half a brain can see they are much more interesting and have more going on upstairs than everyone else – it is the same with anything minimal or lacking. Nuns are fascinating people to study. And here they are so old they let me ask them dumb irrelevant questions to shut me up! I grew up living opposite a Catholic school so used to ‘snoop’ a lot.

        NB – I love camel coats!!!!!!!!!!!! And inner confidence is portrayed publically as introversion, extroversion is a disability. AND we are all meant to be partially passive – I am very passive and non-dominant in real life – the need to dominant others is also a disability, just as rejection of our natural sense of passivity is a brain disability, called Narcissism. My word of the week.

        Take care.
        K

        • mewabe

          “…rejection of our natural sense of passivity is a brain disability, called Narcissism.”

          That’s a new one for me.

          That would make America a narcissist nation for rebelling actively against England, the French narcissist for rebelling against royalty, Gandhi narcissist for opposing the British Empire, Lincoln narcissist for fighting against slavery, the civil rights movement narcissist for rejecting segregation in the American south, women narcissist for fighting to have the right to vote and gain other forms of equality under the law, and many nations narcissist for actively fighting Hitler.

          Yes, it seems that psychologically healthy people would have never engaged in these activities, and would have remained partially passive as they were meant to be.

          Here is a little secret: the choice in life is not between passivity and obedience or aggression and dominance. There is a third option…mostly ignored by humanity, granted: independence….to neither lead nor follow, but get out of the way of the herds.

          Most animals, following the natural and the pecking order, are either passive and submissive or aggressive and dominant. Human beings can learn independence when they choose to no longer follow the animalistic behavioral model, the alpha and omega model, which is very primitive.

          • Kristen

            Passivity is very different to submission, and extremely different to the passions to fight any cause, although all are human traits. It is one part of our human make up, to be balanced amongst all the other desired aspects. Passivity is understanding when others are above us in some aspects, learning when to back down and walk away, being in a relaxed state, allowing intuition which you will understand, knowing we are a part of something bigger than ourselves rather than just ourself, accepting defeat gracefully etc. It also includes gentle passion, subtle wavelengths and flows, love and care for others, respecting others and other calming positive aspects. Passivity is compatible with all other aspects – with dominance it allows us to lead or dominate when necessary in a gently subtle manner, with aggression it forms positive passion and motivation of oneself rather than aggression directed toward others, with obedience it bring law abiding people living as a happy community, positive parenting without violence or raised voices.

            Narcissists are medically lacking in these human aspects defined as passivity as their brains differ from others, although all are different.

            I don’t want to sound mean again, but your interpretation of what I said gives this reader the appearance that you are being a bit pessimistic and turning a positive, fact based and truthful comment into a negative point to be argued just for the sake of it.

        • Gina

          Hi, Kristen. Thank you. The story is beautiful. I wasn’t a buck teethed nerd type of girl with a pure heart. Just like I described, I was outwardly a nebulous, timid person. I wasn’t friendless and disliked either. If for no other reason than others think I am impressionable and teachable for my meek, docile look so to recruit into their cause. Guys were attracted to me for the prim air- what they imagined a chaste, modest woman to be, or some such thing. Until they discover how incredibly edgy, sharp tongued and stubborn I am! So the movie is more Lady Gaga’s Alejandro music video than Ugly Betty. The archetypal nun who is afraid of her sexual identity who only acts out her famme fatal fantasies in imagination! Hahaha. Sounds so narcissistic of me……but seriously I think this is one project I am here to accomplish– to combine the nun and Marilyn inside and recreate myself as an integral human being capable of love and compassion.

          • Kristen

            Hi Gina.I know you didn’t mean you were a Kim kind of girl at school, and don’t think anyone would interpret your words that way, but I used Kim as an example to point out that I do not think anyone can go through the school system as an unnoticed nobody – lots of people notice everyone and remember you even if you may have never spoken to them. I was very normal at school too, I just happened to have hottish male friends, but us girls were ‘normal’ and non descript. Mind you the 80’s were not kind to anyone – we alternated between each singers odd fashion influence with our blue eyeshadow, permed hair and roller skates. I’m just grateful the cool guy in my group was into Roxy Music and other mellow groups, God knows where the other leaders would have taken us!!!! And grateful that females don’t reach their looks peak until at least 25 so the teen years are irrelevant. Guys are an odd bunch, and it always astounds me how much more they see in a female than just their visible ‘beauty’, I think the world completely underestimates the male mating process. This is so noticable as you get older and note the guys that check you out or ask you out. Oddly enough my mid 30’s seemed to be the stage of guys around 7 years younger, perhaps this was the free energy I displayed after freeing myself from a narcissistic husband 12 years older (puke). Great fun, hot bodies and a huge confidence boost but I’d never marry younger.

            I understand it’s hard to have the different parts of you separated, life does this sometimes, and we also do it to ourselves for valid reasons. At the time! I think you should have a little holiday/vacation at the beach somewhere in Summer by yourself or with just one friend, buy new holiday clothes there that are Marilyn style (2nd hand if you’ll never wear them again), have a few drinks and let the other you loose for a few days, and nights. It’s not like hot horny guys are never available on holiday! Oops – I never claimed to be a good influence. (as my 21 year old daughter is now just allowed to date – I sent her to a very small private Christian School to keep her a nun as long as possible – hypocrite). Then when you get home hopefully both the ‘yous’ will combine, and Marilyn will alter the Nana Nuns clothes to suit both. You may even end up gothic (my fav look is the goth bride, but not for me).

            Enjoy your GOAL.

          • Gina

            Thank you! This sounds so cliché, but you are cool. I will be madly enjoying the journey with the added tips on styling. 🙂

          • Kristen

            Thanks. Ah, cool. Love that word. I love every word as they all have a huge paragraph after them! I assume you know that cool is purely the outwardly visible factors of those with good healthy self esteem, who are completely comfortable and dressed accordingly to every situation they are in?! A chameleon. And this often means gaining access to ‘behind the scenes’ or being very observant at every new place or situation so you understand it enough to know you are there because you belong there. And no-one is superior or inferior to you, those who feel superior only do so due to their own insecurities or negative over inflated illusionary ego, and those who feel inferior only do so as they are lacking a bit in self esteem and believe what others drum into them. Both groups wrongly think that money is a part of a class system, and inadvertantly promote this from both ends.

            Gaining behind the scenes access is why so many ‘cool’ people have worked in the hospitality industry – they get behind closed doors, converse with a range of different people learning from them all and have free access to the venues that the cool people are paying to be in. A good self esteem ‘learning’ is to observe the unwritten dress code for anywhere, and just put it on and never think negative things like you feel uncomfortable, like a drag queen in heels, over exposed, like you are overdressed etc and never never never express this to those you are with as the Universe hears it. And be comfortable enough anywhere to take off painful heels and just carry them like a cool person would. Book 5 star accommodation, cheaply by bypassing Saturday nights and booking well in advance when they will generally include a buffet breakfast and discount heavily, and the different behaviours will come based on the surroundings. Nice clothes to check in, bikini and shorts only ok in the corridors and at the pool, niceish clothes whenever you are in reception and a decent label shoes if in relaxed gear as people do look etc. Hiding from situations like this is a huge part of what suppresses people and creates discomfort, which is very hard to break through once people are past their mid 30s. Equally so at a farm, at the beach, a formal occasion, work etc. Be comfortable with yourself as a cool confident person everywhere you go, and if you aren’t then fake it until you are. And getting drunk, taking drugs, being a skank, etc are not cool.

            Sexy tip from a friend who had short hair for many years (I’ve had long for ages) – when she grew her hair she said that the feeling of longish hair on your exposed back in summer feels sexy and made her want to flick her hair around and preen to the boys. I don’t notice this, but apparently it’s on some list she found of what makes females feel sexy. Sun on an exposed tummy was one too – can’t remember the rest.

            Enjoy your journey and a vacation if you do it, and be safe. Really, really safe. Its a dangerous world out there. Enough mothering – sorry it’s a habit as a mum of teenagers.

          • Kristen

            Actually Gina, this may be a bit out of line but I’ve decided to share this girl stuff on the basis of your last sentence, so I believe you honestly want to work on something and aren’t too shy to express it. Change is really hard, especially when those close to you can see it and will comment which can be embarassing. Earlier on you indicated you were ‘unadorned’, including in your clothing choices, rarely wearing girly clothes and dresses. I am unsure if you realise exactly how much our clothing affects our lives, and especially our interactions with the opposite gender. Whether we realise it or not, everyone sub consciously analyses the clothing of others, as much as faces, bodies and hair. Bonus for females is that males are UBER sensitive and reactive to female clothing choices. A simple way of understanding this is to look at every item you own or when you are dressed each time and ask yourself “what will the males think of this outfit?”. All males. Young children are very receptive to The Sources honest ways, and older men will always want their teenage/adult daughters to dress so that at a formal occasion they are so proud that it brings a tear to their eye. They form opinions based on a quick glance whilst females are more critical and take in quality, right tones, fabric, how it suits bodies etc. See it from the male eye, it’s much easier.

            The whole world will treat you accordingly to how you are dressed everytime. It’s easier to use myself as examples with this, I’m very humble for the record but self examples are faster and easier to learn from. I remember years ago my sister and I got gifted tickets to Cirque du Soliel and I wore zebra print jeans with heels and a plain t-shirt. Just normal for an upmarket circus. At the end a couple of hot guys came to the bar and bought us bubbly, and one commented on my great jeans then invited us backstage to the VIP after party, that everyone else bought tickets to for $300 to be socialites. Unfortunately the jeans got biffed a few years later when a drunk male gay friend asked me why I had worn fu-k me jeans to a gay party and had I switched camps? Erm, no. Or a few years ago on New Years Eve at the local bar I decided to hide my unwaxed legs (oops) and wore huge loose black pants that I cut the lining off to boxer shorts length so the legs were sheer black. With heels and a cute top. Bowl me over – I got so many comments from guys and hit on so much in a bar full of girls ten years younger with their boobs and vjjs hanging out of dresses I would define as a scrap of fabric. Or at a recent vineyard concert a friend who wore jeans and a t-shirt, (while the rest of us dressed up a bit more but me just in a very loose floaty ankle length maxi dress sun frock with a demin jacket and hair up in a high bun), pointed out that at the bar and cafe I got served immediately and my order was up before those who ordered before me AND the bar lady poured our bubbly into glasses and put on a tray for me. My friend just got ignored then handed their bottle and three glasses by the same bar staff. My daughter and step daughter who looked perfect for the informal twilight function both commented on how nice everyone was, and friendly with so many strangers smiling and saying hello. Others did not have the same experience or would think the very same people being lovely to the girls were snobs who ignored them. Sorry to bring me into it so much, but it cannot be ingrained into people how much clothes influence others and how they relate to us, how friendly we look, guys can tell if we are approachable, kids can tell if we are nice, people can tell if we are comfortable and in our comfort zone. My smart Nana taught us these things from a young age, and also to only ever show chest, tummy or legs at once unless at the beach. At 92 she still works from home as a dressmaker as she has done for the past 70 years, and clothes are her love and joy, a passion she passed onto us for which I am grateful. Thinking back our Barbie dolls had as many clothes as we did, they even had matching bra and underwear sets for modesty! My parents were young and very stylish when they had us, so superficially and pathetically, clothes are in the blood and one of my passions!!

            Hope this helps, if not, I don’t mind sounding like a dork talking about themselves!!! Thats conversation for you!

      • Kristen

        PS – this is after my comment below. Michael L feels like the most interesting person in here if you want interesting conversation. And he comes across as boring possibly. And also another hiding observer also called Michael would have really interesting things to say if he comes out of his turtle shell.

  • Kristen

    Neale – you can delete this if you like when you or your moderators have read it. I havn’t beeen for a bit and wasn’t going to again until I heard the news today that somewhere in America a photographer is in deep shite for refusing to photograph a gay wedding as it is against his religious beliefs. I expected this to be your new headline topic as you are due a one sided (unless I’m in here) Biblical God and religion bashing session in your repeat loop of limited topics, all worded slightly differently around new headlines.

    Can you please refrain from doing this as I really cannot be bothered putting God’s side across like a broken record while reading people bashing Him BUT if you do discuss that headline can you please point out that God (biblical God not your impersonator God) refers to sodomy as being punishable and detestable, worded as do not make love to a man as you would a woman, and He only instructed Jewish/Israelite Priests to execute homosexuals engaging in this when they were living in Jewish communities in Israel – worded as “living amonsgt you”. As a high up Kabbalist that can access Gods views, He does not care if people are gay or not, it is illegal to obstruct love without valid reason BUT He and many high up are opposed to many sexual acts, biblically defined as “immoral sexual acts” This is a family show, I will not list them unless asked, but I am happy to. Argue with them personally through prayer, not others on Earth who respect them enough to understand those above are allowed views too and a part of any religion to respect your God’s view above forming your own WHERE religion and beliefs are involved! Which would include gay marriage as a concept as the word marriage is a Biblical/Religious word that the mainstream world adopted from Genesis.

    But in saying that, surely any business owner has the right to run their business how they choose to, but with the usual hypocritical anti government stance you and your followers have, I can no double predict that your double standards will yet again become “we hate Governments controlling us but when anyone does things that are against our own beliefs then we want governments to control those other people and make laws telling them they cannot do what us CwG’ers and minority groups do not want them to do because we are the only ones with any rights”. Is that a CwG quote?? It should be one, its one of the main principles in here.

    PS – I am not anti-gay, not my business and I have gay friends, but respecting God is my business so I thought I’d get in before you trash Him as usual.

    • mewabe

      Kristen, now I understand: you seem to be angered by people who question or criticize your Bible and Biblical God as I do (yes, I would never read the Bible…call me close-minded!)

      There are some kernels of truth in most things, so there are some truths in the Bible, possibly, if one can look through the myths and see the deeper meanings and symbology.

      But I know that I am not descended from Adam and Eve, because my ancestors are not inbred. That’s an obvious example of how the Bible should never be taken literally.

      Again, I would encourage you to look at the part of your belief system that is on shaky foundations, because if you were absolutely sure and confident in your beliefs, you would not care at all that another criticizes or questions them.

      • Kristen

        Wrong again, stop assuming things in a pessimistic manner.

        As I made very clear, I don’t like LIES about my God. Or anyone for that matter, but when people talk about Him who have not read the bible properly, the lies start through misinformation. Thats all. I will defend anyone who cannot defend themself and I’m trying to nip this one in the bud before it all starts up again so I don’t have to be in here much longer trying to ensure Gods words are not misinterpreted.

        I like being inbred. I’m already a NZ mongrel and a mutant with green eyes so why not add inbred to the list. Makes me feel cooler than a sheep or a goat. The bible doesn’t deny it, every species is one but God forbade incest once we were well and truly underway, although Abraham and Sarah were half brother and sister after that time of the banning and God still blessed them and Angels visited so I guess the rules weren’t that strict!. If you were an Israelite with Gods spirit flowing through your blood you would understand and the Bible would be a form of ‘home’ for you; it is the story of my family tree, ancestors and their relationship with our God. What other families have that history recorded???? I read it as an insider, you read it as an outsider. My ‘belief’ system is in my blood, heart and soul, not external, not learned but felt, who I am not what I read, how I felt and was before I even read a bible or studied, and very very steady and firm, not one shake at all. My beliefs are me!

        Later.

        • mewabe

          So you are on a mission to ensure your God’s words are not misinterpreted? That’s a tall order Kristen…On how many fronts has your personal war expanded? And do you really think that you can dictate to Neale what he should or shouldn’t write on his own website? I though I was pushing the envelope a little, but you jump right across all boundaries!

          Do you know how angry and offensive you come across? Or is your belief in your God giving you the right, in your eyes, to lead a brutal front attack? Isn’t this called fanaticism? I thought I was a little too passionate, but I am mild compared to you Kristen…

          I am not sure what you call an Israelite, but I am not from the Middle East and have no physical or spiritual roots there if this is what you mean, and do not relate to Middle Eastern religions such as Christianity, Judaism or Islam.

          • Kristen

            I’m not angry at all, I’ve said that. I’m always calm other than with aliens in human bodies having a ‘human experience’. I can’t address everything, and it is pointless. But I do get that you think I’m coming across and angry and in war mode. Not at all.

            I agree with probably half of what you say, half of what Neale says and quite a lot of what CwG says from what I have read. When very different people believe the same things it is generally corrrect and from The Source, which we all are. I apologise that I come across so aggressive. I’m just tired I guess. I’m undertaking three new Tree of Life tasks this year, which are time consuming. Easy one is the ‘op (thrift) shop challenge’ where you are only allowed to purchase anything that is not food 2nd hand other than necessary gifts, 2nd is to undertake my Masters in Psyche-ology, and The Source challenge which is tiring as it entails getting every aspect of my life up to The Sources standards of perfection and beauty. Extra cleaning, redecorating, painting, time on hair and make up etc but the benefits are well worth it already as you receive perfection in exchange for your efforts especially with the Law of Synchronicity. I tend to throw myself in the deep end constantly, at least I’ll get to enjoy retirement with so many tasks already done though!

            An Israelite is just a biological descendant of the man Israel, the owner of the family farm named after him. And the family the bible is about, and the ones God refers to as His people.

            As mentioned several times, being in here was a job. My points to make (and yes I have been a broken record) were:

            -Neales God is not the Biblical God which he pointed out in maybe book 3 after impersonating for a couple of books. This is important because when Neales God states “I am not a punishing God” he is not lying, but it is important that people understand that this does not mean the Biblical God is no longer a punishing God. This is a piece of advice or a warning for people to be careful and not to mis-interpret Neales God’s statements as meaning there are no punishers. This is everyones best interests to be aware of. Neales God has a legitimate role as God of the Dead (Afterlife) and role as the Tempter on the Tree of Life, and is playing games to ensure the dead (reincarnated people) can not be immortal as he is a human hater. He is a deceptive double crosser, but people can believe what they want to and since he is a Christ I have had discussions with him and we actually get along and I can see the funny side of it all. Genius!!! And I have worked for him in here but I will not disclose with what comments other than he asked me to try to discourage Neales peace of the soul campaign in late 2012. I am not enemy of Neale, or his God. I am enemy of evil, aliens in human bodies and those who cause suffering. I do not care what anyone else does and I am pro freewill. I just wish people would use it more wisely.

            -Christ Consciousness is discussed in here a bit, so again I point out that people should be aware that Christ Consciousness is the understanding of the workings of the Universe- defined as Law. Again people need to be careful and not be a bible basher as the Biblical God is also the Universal God of Law (nothing to do with His religion), so if they are discussing Law or planning to study in the future to be aware who they will be studying under. This is why I point out He is the God of Law – not to exhault but to create awareness. All Christs are judges and punishers, which is why they study Law, again I have pointed this out so people are aware not to be complacent, and this is why all Christs in any religion will teach their people Law and how to avoid punishments, even Buddha.

            -CwG, Neale and this site teach and understand that there are two sides to every story. When people say things about the Biblical God that are not true I have presented His side, generally with the correct scripture like above so people do not believe what christians say when they have not read the bible. Christians have done God so much harm with their incorrect teachings rather than correct scripture. It was in this context that I posted the above comment to Neale as I can assume that will become a headline. I pointed out God’s side on the whole gay matter, so that when it comes up yet again hopefully Neale will balance it as I asked him to do, rather than believing Christians that God is a gay basher. I presented the other side in advance – in accordance with CwG teachings. I do not think this is out of line at all. How can we even understand or talk about the truth with only one side, and misunderstandings and misinterpretations?????

            Yes I have been defending God, but more importantly, I have been trying my best over the past 18 months to try to ‘warn’ people, and Neale, not to be complacent about God, or other Gods for that matter just because the one god discussed in here gives certain information. This is in their best interests to be aware of, obviously there is nothing in it for me other than hoping some will understand and to be a bit more careful and less complacent.

            I havn’t read any of your other 5 comments of last night, just a quick glance, but I apologise if you have taken offense that I told Gina she was doing really well in her debates with you. She is. You like debating and arguing, it exhausts me as I don’t think I have ever argued or debated in my real life other than telling exes to fork off. She is doing really well, credit where credit is due.

            You have pointed out a number of times that based on YOUR beliefs that I must somehow be threatened by your views, lacking in my own convictions of my own beliefs etc. This is completely wrong as I have pointed out, but I suspect that you do not believe me. All I can say is perhaps you have that the wrong way around since that is your belief?? If not, then at least you will know how it feels when people make this incorrect assumption about you.

            I am finished working in here now, hopefully I won’t get sent back in, and I know I have succeeded at many of the things I was asked to mention as I have been paid quite well. I have been open about working in here, and getting extra income when I do. It’s been roughly an extra $3000 in the past couple of months, so thank you for helping me get performance bonuses! Seriously!

            Take care.