Worldwide Discussion: The People Join In
WE ARE ALL COMPLICIT IN CREATING
HUMANITY’S VICIOUS CIRCLE

A gentleman has posted on the Neale Donald Walsch Facebook page a series of reactions to my last headline story at this online newspaper, and I should like to respond to him here.

I do so with eagerness and joy, because this is what The Global Conversation is all about. I believe it is conversations just such as these that can begin to generate a global movement toward changing many undesirable aspects of our global experience.

The gentleman posting on Facebook is named Martin Brower, and he writes:

“It’s hard to believe the junk you people believe, not a shred of proof, logic, reason, or accountability. It’s the hippie movement, ‘if it feels good just do it’. I would suggest reading some history. Society has been way worse sexually, violence was way worse, morality was way worse. There will always be a person that wakes up in pissed mood and is not mentally stable and no laws will stop it.”

To this I responded:
Right. Movies, video games, television has no effect on society whatsoever. That’s why sponsors may $5 million for a 60-second ad on the Super Bowl…because messages have no effect.

Right.

Mr. Brower then later posted:
“While it makes you and others feel good about shifting blame it resides in the consumer, stop driving your car, grow your own food, don’t use electricity, exercise and then you will sleep well.

“NOBODY has a gun to the head of anyone that smokes. Those companies would disappear as soon as their cash flow was gone if PEOPLE would stop buying them. McDonald’s would sell salads only if people wanted them. Until you start taking responsibility for your own actions you will always be in bondage.”

Here now is my further response to Mr. Brower:
My Dear Martin…Now you have echoed the whole point of the article I wrote. Yes, that is what I had hoped to convey. Of course it is not the “fault” of the tobacco companies, or the gun manufacturers, or the makers of violence-laden movies or video games. It is the mass public that consumes these products and the displays, in some sad cases, the behaviors they generate, and only when the mass public ceases to desire these products will the human species release itself from its bondage. Thank you for putting it more succinctly, and more verbally clear, than I managed to do.

Yet there seems to me to be no question that this is a circle. That is, one thing affects the other. And there also seems to me to be no question that, for instance, the creators of ugly, violent images influence the minds of millions of human beings — some of them, very young — and help to produce the mindset that generates a taste and a hunger for more of the same. And so the vicious circle completes itself.

Take smoking, for instance. This is as good an example as any. When smoking was high on humanity’s list of self-destructive behaviors, my observation was that television commercials played a major role in its increasing popularity. Messages like images of the “Marlboro Man” (who, ironically, died of cancer) made it seem manly and macho to smoke, and jingles such as “Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should,” and Pall Mall’s famous tag line — “Wherever particular people congregate” — helped convince an addiction-prone public that smoking was a very cool thing to do. (There was even a brand of cigarettes called Kools!)

When smoking commercials were finally banned from U.S. television, and movie makers agreed to remove depictions of magnetically attractive, charismatic people lighting up and inhaling cigarette after cigarette on camera, smoking in the United States went down (speaking of statistics).

So there seems to me to be no question, Martin, that mass media affects mass tastes, mass desires, and mass hungers…and mass hungers and mass desires produce the incentive for the makers of products and services that feed those hungers to continue to do so — and to hope to increase them. It is, as I said, a vicious circle. Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? That is an elegantly frustrating question. But there seems to be NO question that if you remove one, the other will disappear.

Yet so long as the makers of video games and the producers of movies and the creators of television programs (to use just a few of the examples cited in my article) refuse to accept responsibility for the role they are playing in keeping this circle intact — so long as they insist that THEIR activities are having no impact whatsoever on OURS, and that they play no role in CREATING our tastes and desires, as opposed to simply serving them — the chicken will produce the egg, which will produce the chicken, which will produce the egg, and the collaboration will continue.

I think the point of my article, Martin, was to describe the collaboration. And then to arouse sufficient awakening to cause sufficient interest in creating sufficient backlash to generate sufficient desire to pop the bubble of our illusion that one thing has nothing to do with the other.

I have enjoyed our discussion on this, Martin, and I thank you for your very articulate observation, as noted above.

Perhaps together we can cause an awakening — or (to speak more accurately), add energy to one that is already occurring.

Sending best thoughts…Neale.

==========================
AND ON THAT THOUGHT…Allow me to switch now to an exchange I’ve had right here in the Comments Section on this page with a Global Conversation reader who posts as “Mewabe.”

Mewabe was responding to an earlier entry from reader Christopher Toft, who wrote: “I have been flirting with the Humanity’s team website, trying to wrap my head around the concept. It’s weirdly confusing to me. I feel like ‘How can we have a humanity’s team?’ what does this mean? I don’t understand the idea. The idea feels fuzzy to me, difficult to comprehend. I expect it to be an evangelical organization, trying to ‘convert’ people to ‘Nealism’ and of course it’s not. It something more complex and integral (To borrow Ken Wilber’s phrase) than that, that I don’t understand yet.”

Mewabe replied, in part:
“I do not believe that there is one solution, one magic formula, one person who has it all figured out…I think change will take teamwork, and many different approaches, all complementary.

“I have never been ‘converted’ to anything…because I know who I am. I resonate with bits and pieces of things here and there, but cannot ever espouse another person’s worldview as if it was my own, because it is not and cannot be. This is why I have a natural resistance to all religions, all ideologies, all spiritual movements and all forms of group thinking, because I have and always had my own thoughts.”

Now, here is my entry in that portion of the ongoing discussion here…
My sweet friend, Mewabe…There seems to me to be just the slightest contradiction in terms in what I see you so eloquently expressing. On the one hand you say: “I know nothing about Humanity’s Team, but I focus my efforts elsewhere. At any rate, I do not believe that there is one solution, one magic formula, one person who has it all figured out…”, then you add…”I have a natural resistance to all religions, all ideologies, all spiritual movements and all forms of group thinking, because I have and always had my own thoughts.”

Then, on the other hand you say: “I think change will take teamwork, and many different approaches, all complementary.”

This seems to be exactly the opposite energy of your statements just above. For how is “teamwork” possible if nobody joins the team? How will “many different approaches, all complementary” be created, much less undertaken, if every human being resists “all ideologies, all spiritual movements and all forms of group thinking”?

Doesn’t a football team gather in a huddle to engage in “group thinking” to determine what the next play should be? Hasn’t all truly forward-movement-generating human activity been the result of some sort of human collaboration, not unlike the Evolution Revolution invited and suggested by Humanity’s Team?

If we resist the exhortations of others to join together in spiritually revolutionary movements — and do so on principle because it feels that resistance to such collaboration is resistance to GroupThink — do we not in the same stroke eliminate any possibility of overcoming and changing what humanity’s unconscious collaboration has already produced?

Is Conscious Collaboration not far more beneficial than Unconscious Collaboration? If the fulfillment of our highest human desires is our highest human goal, does not a Collective Effort to achieve a Collective Goal better generate that Collective Experience?

The point I was hoping to make in my article above is that right now, humanity’s Collective Experience is not being driven by humanity’s Collective Goal, but rather, by the Collective Goal of smaller sub-sections of humanity which, while working assiduously to produce particular outcomes, is denying any role in creating them.

Lovingly submitted to our Collective here, for discussion…

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  • Christopher Toft

    Good point. What say you Mewabe?

    • mewabe

      Hey Christopher, I wrote a response to Neale’s comment, but as I suspected it, I wasted my time.

      I have observed, through the months that I have participated in this so-called conversation, that Neale is single-minded in his approach, and has a very narrow focus regarding the way he seeks to present his message. This is not really a conversation, as he routinely uses people’s comments to serve the point he seeks to make.

      I understand why he does it, but I feel like I am wasting my time here, not getting anywhere, not getting through. Most, including me, including Neale, are repeating the same thing over and over, and not hearing each other in any way. And more importantly, I believe the time for talking, for preaching to the choir, is long past, I am more interested in action, in getting things done, in implementing change. The world is in a crisis and we need to do something about it, we all know what the crisis is about, we all kind of understand who is nuts and who is relatively sane, and what the problems are. Now is the time to roll up our sleeves!

      I do not see the point of participating here any longer…I would get more results talking to cactus in the middle of the Sonora desert.

  • Anonamo

    I will never agree with the notion that video games or violent media directly make people violent. I will agree that they can be a factor, but not THE cause of the violence. The true reason violence exists in our world is because people don’t understand the concept that we are all one. All other dysfunction is a symptom of this.

    Violence in a gaming context is not bad or evil for the mere reason, as god said in CwG there is nothing right or wrong, just what works. Therefore, violence in the absence of hate and spiritual disconnectedness is merely a medium for entertainment, just like any other.

    • Anonamo

      Thanks for your responses. I might not be able to get this point across
      perfectly if you haven’t had the same kind of experiences as me. But,
      like I said, to a gamer who is in tune, violence does not represent (or
      at least does not have to represent) the type of negativity humans
      create. Look at it this way…

      A man can walk into a bank and
      deposit 500 dollars to support his family. Or he can deposit the money
      in order to fund terrorism. In the same way, a man can play a video
      game that depicts violence without ever even conceiving of the notion of
      harming someone in real life. Or he can play it, look at the violence,
      and be inspired to be a terrorist. The 500 dollars in this case
      represents the neutral idea of violence, which can be used in any way a
      person wants.

      There’s a known psychological phenomenon that when a
      person experiences two things at the same time, he will, in his memory,
      always associate those two things together. So say a powerful
      experience happens to someone on a day in which the scent of fresh cut
      grass is in the air. Whenever he smells fresh cut grass, he is likely
      to be taken back that memory.

      Violence is much the same way
      because whenever it occurs in our world as an interaction between
      people, the immediate effect is pain, horror, and all kinds of trauma. A
      gamer who is in tune* (and that point is VERY important) does not see
      the horror in violence because he is not coming from an energetically
      corrupt place in his spirit. He only sees it as a fun gaming mechanism.
      At the same time, he recognizes that he should always stand against
      real word instances of people trying to ruin the world with violence.
      Thanks for your response, Neale. I have always believed in your work and have made your teachings a central part of my life.

      The
      reasons your meditations have revealed something else is because you
      have analyzed this issue from the standpoint which is supported by the
      energy that dictates human horror and suffering. I, however, am
      analyzing violence from the perspective of it being a thing that does
      not create pain or suffering. That is why we both get agreement from
      god on this issue (if it harms none, do as you will). And that’s why we
      are both right.

      I can see a totally advanced society in which
      violent video games and media do exist, but this is a society which
      teaches its young what actual love is at an early age and that we are
      all one. I have been around ultra-violent games since the age of 8. I
      used to play Mortal Kombat with my brother, among other ulta-violent
      games. However, in my case, I was raised by a mother and father who
      instilled in me a sense of being loved and what true love is.

      Those
      that are influenced by violence are those that are either in a mind
      altered state, in which case anything can affect you, or they were
      neglected and abused growing up. In the presence of the right
      teachings, violence becomes just another thing.

      • Christopher Toft

        ” The 500 dollars in this case represents the neutral idea of violence, which can be used in any way a
        person wants.”

        “I, however, am analyzing violence from the perspective of it being a thing that does not create pain or suffering.”

        Hello Anonamo, I would like to contribute my own thoughts On violence. I am genuinely perplexed by the notion of violence that does not cause pain & suffering. I find myself in agreement with Neale about violence: Violence is by definition an act that causes pain and suffering, because it is an act that hurts both the perpetrator and the recipient of it.

        In the case of videogames, even though no physical “other” is being hurt, the person playing the game is indeed being hurt, because they are cultivating thoughts of an other that needs to be dominated, subdued or outright destroyed in order for the player to “win” and feel whole and complete. A highly unstable fear based form of gratification because in the real world violence creates resentment on the “other side”. This is how wars, slavery, inequality and countless other destructive phenomena continue. Destructive emotions create destructive outward circumstances.

        • Anonamo

          Well, I’m sorry to say you have the exact wrong idea about violence in regards* to what I believe. I have played ultra violent games my entire life and experience regular times of deep, powerful communion with god, experiences which no one can judge or assume to be one thing or another. My meditations have told me that it is my perspective on violence that makes it a harmless thing.

          Violence in the context of video games is just a silly, cartoony thing and does not have to represent a desire, in a real life context, to dominate or control anyone. There are some who may use them that way (as an outlet to attenuate urges they regularly act on actually), but these are individuals who don’t know themselves. If I listen to pop music, this does not represent my desire to be a pop icon, with all the fame and lavishness that brings. I play video games but the idea of harming someone to me is abhorrent.

          What I’m getting at here is that there are different forms of happiness that are all positive, yet operate at different wavelengths of sensation. Taking pleasure in violence,as I have tried to illustrate it, is a lower wavelength that is not bright and happy, but dark and slow. It is also not evil and does create harm.

          In real life, you cannot commit acts of real violence without causing someone true harm and pain. So I’d never advocate for that unless you were some type of highly evolved being who has a degree of body control which turns the sensations caused by violence into something totally non-painful. But that’s an esoteric concept I probably shouldn’t even get into here.

          The notion that I have somehow been harming myself by playing the violent games I do is totally laughable because, like I said, the perspective I take on it transmutes those energies into harmless ones. People cannot disassociate violence from fear, pain, and negativity… so that’s the REAL problem. If you (I mean anyone) can’t or won’t even attempt to do this, then don’t even try to understand where I’m coming from. We will be comparing apples and oranges for a very long time, and will never get to a point of agreement as we’d be coming from to totally different places.

          But in my meditations, and I KNOW some will think I haven’t been communing with god when I say this, I have come to know a side of God that is very dark, but not negative or evil at all. This is a form of positive experience that takes a different, more “serious”, for lack of a better word, approach to feeling good.

          I can’t redact anything I’ve said because my guidance won’t let me… and this is the same guidance that has gotten me through some of the most difficult times in my life. Take that for what you will, and I don’t expect anyone to understand this. Suffice it to say that it’s a very high level spiritual exploration you only encounter after dedicating one hundred percent of your time to knowing the divine. By this I mean you will only be introduced to this concept after you commit to a persistent meditation and always have one eye 100 percent on God, not just both eyes 10 percent of the time.

          • Anonamo

            Just to clarify my stance on this one point right here…

            “I
            am genuinely perplexed by the notion of violence that does not cause
            pain & suffering. I find myself in agreement with Neale about
            violence: Violence is by definition an act that causes pain and
            suffering, because it is an act that hurts both the perpetrator and the
            recipient of it.”

            It is my perspective and intentions that makes the violence I speak of harmless and not bad. Violence is a neutral thing, whether you realize it or not. If a man stabs someone out of hatred, that’s bad. But if a man stabs someone as a martial artist using protective gear to ensure no one is hurt, that is NOT bad; this guy is just trying to have fun.

            The latter is the kind of violence I advocate and the type I choose* to see in video games… Beyond this last analogy, I can’t make my position any more clear than this.

          • Christopher Toft

            “But if a man stabs someone as a martial artist using protective gear to ensure no one is hurt, that is NOT bad; this guy is just trying to have fun.”
            Okay so where is the fun? What makes it fun? Could you please explain this to me?

          • Anonamo

            In regards to the violence, it is just an appealing* mechanism of the competition, and yes, I know I’ve already seen that. Stick with me though, because I may be going off on an small, but important tangent.

            There’s a problem whenever I try to explain myself, because I see it all through the lens of a person who does not judge the value of a soul based on personal abilities, wealth, or ANYTHING bound in the physical realm. The way many people perceive worth on Earth would be the perfect example of everything you find wrong with the human experience because many of them would indeed, even in a “friendly competitive setting”, be very egotistical and prone to negativity if things didn’t go a certain way. That is, if they didn’t “win”.

            So basically, everything I’ve been saying so far comes from a certain perspective that, to my knowledge, is practically nonexistent on this planet. This perspective would never degrade or praise a certain individual AS A SOUL because of how much “skill” or “wealth” they had. Instead, they would praise their skills themselves as an achievement that has no bearing on their worth as a person (since all souls are totally equal).

            If I entered a martial arts competition in this theoretical, highly evolved world, I would approach each person and not judge the value of their soul at all. Instead, I would congratulate them on their achievements, but not value them more than the person that either sucks at martial arts or doesn’t care about them at all. Let’s compare this stance to our society, then…

            Many people would enter a competition in order to prove their worth to the world, and therefore being good at violence proves something to certain people whom they need to please/impress in order to ensure a good self-esteem. In this regard, you are right and violence is wrong because these people are basing their self-worth on their skills and not something innate an all-loving creator gave them.

            The reason why violent competition is fun from my perspective is because I don’t use it as a mechanism to judge my self-worth. Even violence in gaming, when not much actual competition is going on, has its value because I’m not using it to simulate the degradation of another being. I say this despite the fact that some people may believe this notion is wrong and that violence is objectively wrong no matter what. All the grandiose violence you can create in a virtual realm is just silly because its so unrealistic and no one is harmed.

            On a side note, to their credit, many video games DO give you a choice on how to approach conflicts these days. You can play certain games without ever killing a single person, so there is a rather large market out their for games which emphasize the ability to choose the diplomatic approach. But that’s just a side point to what I was saying before…

            Everything I just said is a certain approach to answering your question. But on the most basic level, combat sports are fun because they are an adrenaline rush you can’t get from other experiences. An evolved person wouldn’t enter a violent competition to cause someone pain and suffering; they do so because being strong and alacritous in their physical bodies appeals to them.

            These people know exactly how to deal with pain, and even if it does get bad, it is NOT the same thing as the atrocities that are committed in warfare. Instead, the idea that high degrees of pain may exist are a tradeoff that the two souls agree to before they initiate any kind of fight. Talk to an MMAer or read/watch an interview with one if you really want to know the psychology of this in depth.

            I hope this answers your question.

          • Christopher Toft

            Hi Anonamo,

            “The way many people perceive worth on Earth would be the perfect example of everything you find wrong with the human experience because many of them would indeed, even in a “friendly competitive setting”, be very egotistical and prone to negativity if things didn’t go a certain way. That is, if they didn’t “win”.

            “I am trying to understand where you’re coming from. Are you saying the fun of violence is in the taking part?AS A SOUL because of how much “skill” or “wealth” they had. Instead, they would praise their skills themselves as an achievement that has no bearing on their worth as a person (since all souls are totally equal).”

            How do we express the worth and dignity of all beings if “To the victor go the spoils?

            “Many people would enter a competition in order to prove their worth to the world, and therefore being good at violence proves something to certain people whom they need to please/impress in order to ensure a good self-esteem. In this regard, you are right and violence is wrong because these people are basing their self-worth on their skills and not something innate an all-loving creator gave them.”

            Okay, so in the absence of needing to please & impress people, why would anyone need martial arts skills(Except in extreme situations where an enraged person who will not be reasoned with is attacking you or others).

            “I say this despite the fact that some people may believe this notion is wrong and that violence is objectively wrong no matter what.”

            I want to be clear and say that violence is absolutely wrong. My above example illustrates that in rare cases, it may be a sad necessity.

            “On a side note, to their credit, many video games DO give you a choice on how to approach conflicts these days. You can play certain games without ever killing a single person, so there is a rather large market out their for games which emphasize the ability to choose the diplomatic approach. But that’s just a side point to what I was saying before…”

            Yes there was an interesting article in the Observer yesterday about ethical gaming and conflict resolution.

            “But on the most basic level, combat sports are fun because they are an adrenaline rush you can’t get from other experiences.”

            Skiing? Motor racing? Other extreme sports?

          • Anonamo

            My point is that martial arts in the way I’m talking about is NOT used for warfare! It’s not even used for self-defense! In a highly evolved society, it wouldn’t even be considered in such a way. It would be used as a part of a game, or as a way for a person to make their bodies stronger, just because they like having a strong, quick body. Therefore “Martial Arts” as I define it has NOTHING to do with human warfare whatsoever, and by extension, human suffering. I can’t make myself more clear than that.

            And there’s nothing wrong with a winner-takes-all mentality when we agree that winning doesn’t make anyone a superior soul. The loser would not feel inferior or bad about themselves in any way because they have chosen to embrace the attitude of non-attachment. Therefore a winner does not alienate the loser or any way harm them by the act of winning.

            Also, the act of losing wouldn’t mean anything in a society in which all people are ensured their basic dignity since they would not have to rely on winning anything just to survive. Also, I’ve heard combat sports referred to as extreme sports, which is why I called them that.

          • Christopher Toft

            Hello again, you said:

            “It would be used as a part of a game, or as a way for a person to make their bodies stronger, just because they like having a strong, quick body. Therefore “Martial Arts” as I define it has NOTHING to do with human warfare whatsoever, and by extension, human suffering. I can’t make myself more clear than that.”

            I still don’t understand why a game or making your body strong and quick ,or seeking adrenaline rush should have any connection to causing physical harm or receiving physical harm from an opponent? Why is the mutual infliction of pain a necessity in achieving the ends you describe?

          • Christopher Toft

            Perhaps there is an element of friendly competition in our conversation;)

          • Anonamo

            “I still don’t understand why a game or making your body strong and quick
            ,or seeking adrenaline rush should have any connection to causing
            physical harm or receiving physical harm from an opponent? Why is the
            mutual infliction of pain a necessity in achieving the ends you
            describe?”

            I’ve been saying that inflicting pain on someone is not the goal of the type of violence I’m speaking of. The goal is to overcome the opponent. However, for those that really value the idea of becoming a better fighter (for all the good feelings that brings them) it’s an acceptable risk that it may occur. Those that fight in martial arts matches have a REALLY high resistance to pain, and therefore between the two fighters in the ring, the thing that puts them out of the fight normally isn’t the pain itself, but instead just being knocked out/exhausted.

            If the pain was that big of an issue, the people involved would probably rethink their decision to be fighters. Essentially, if you have two people that are fighting each other just for sport, they are not doing it because they hate each other. They find value in a thing that others simply cannot.

            Basically, if there is no hatred involved, the sport of fighting is okay because it is not a thing which leads to the ending of life and civilization as we know it. Hatred compels people to act in ways which ends life and causes karma. Two people enjoy learning how to fight are simply enjoying a sport that some may not understand.

            Also, lets not forget that we all must learn what pain is to know pleasure. Martial arts, in the absence of hatred, is the perfect way to do this.

            I’ve also gotta say, and this may lead into another discussion altogether, that I’ve learned recently that the opposite of Love is NOT Hatred. It’s Apathy. Hatred is a “third polarity” and a calculated risk that god took when he made beings with full free will.

            Think about that for a second because I may have just dropped one of the biggest spiritual bomb shells of all time…

            The opposite of Love is NOT Hatred.
            The opposite of Love is Apathy.

            Think about it. Loving someone means you care about them deeply.

            What’s the opposite of caring about someone?

            Not caring about them.

            The reason why hatred is a calculated risk and not a necessary agent of polarization is because it ends life, and when it remains unfettered, would do EVERYTHING to prevent it from coming back in the ways the divine would desire.

          • Christopher Toft

            Hi Anonamo,
            Thanks for your response,
            “I’ve been saying that inflicting pain on someone is not the goal of the type of violence I’m speaking of. The goal is to overcome the opponent”.

            Again if we are talking about the joys of excelling, if inflicting pain is not the goal, why inflict it? What’s wrong with tennis? A game of risk?;) To my mind if the goal is to overcoming the opponent then the violence seems to serve no purpose.

            “Those that fight in martial arts matches have a REALLY high resistance to pain, and therefore between the two fighters in the ring, the thing that puts them out of the fight normally isn’t the pain itself, but instead just being knocked out/exhausted.”

            I think humans feel pain for a reason. I think it’s our body’s way of saying “Don’t do that, you’re damaging yourself”. Having a high resistance to pain strikes me as being a form of denial. Having a high resistance to not thinking about the dangers of smoking & lighting up a cigarette isn’t healthy either.

            “Basically, if there is no hatred involved, the sport of fighting is okay because it is not a thing which leads to the ending of life and civilization as we know it. Hatred compels people to act in ways which ends life and causes karma. Two people enjoy learning how to fight are simply enjoying a sport that some may not understand.”

            Can people inflict pain upon another living being without hatred? Yeah I think so. But why would anyone want to put themselves through the pain of hurting someone they love for no discernible reason? (Because the infliction of pain is simply unnecessary and utterly senseless and meaningless in my view) .

            “Also, lets not forget that we all must learn what pain is to know pleasure. Martial arts, in the absence of hatred, is the perfect way to do this”.

            People learn what pain is when they fall over in the playground.

            “I’ve also gotta say, and this may lead into another discussion altogether, that I’ve learned recently that the opposite of Love is NOT Hatred. It’s Apathy. Hatred is a “third polarity” and a calculated risk that god took when he made beings with full free will.”

            CWG says that the opposite of love is fear and I agree with this. To me hatred and apathy are both forms of fear.

            “What’s the opposite of caring about someone?”

            Hatred and apathy both express this I think.

            “The reason why hatred is a calculated risk and not a necessary agent of polarization is because it ends life, and when it remains unfettered, would do EVERYTHING to prevent it from coming back in the ways the divine would desire.”
            I see it as a aspect of reality that emerges when people and other phenomena are not fully comprehended. In politics for example many left wingers hate right wingers and vice-versa, because we all have a tendency to assume we know that this means right wingers are against same sex marriage and pornography and left wingers are automatically pro porn and same sex marriage. Personally I am pro same sex marriage and anti porn which confuses some people because they then make these assumptions about my “ideology” and move into hate.
            I appreciate our on going dialogue.

          • Christopher Toft

            I would like to clarify my intentions in regard to our conversation Anonamo. My intention is to look at our differing perspectives and for us to learn something valuable from our interactions. My intention is definitely not to dominate, control or squash your point of view, but rather to stimulate thought and reflection for both of us. I wish nothing but happiness and peace for you.

          • Anonamo

            I know it’s been awhile since this conversation started, but I was browsing some of my old posts and decided I should elaborate more on my perspective about pain.

            Basically, when someone is involved in a martial arts tournament (since that’s the last analogy we used), their enjoyment of it occurs because they have decided that such a thing is valuable to them. Pain, although it is indeed a thing which tells the body “don’t do that”, is also within the control of the consciousness that experiences it.

            A person can condition themselves, through any number of techniques, to dampen the effect pain has on their bodies. They can also toughen themselves physically to the point where their bodies don’t take the kind of damage it normally would when certain degrees of force are exerted against it.

            Under these circumstances, pain is not something that is so bad to the point that a person will do anything at all to terminate it immediately. It is more of a minor nuisance, but one that will still serve to slow you down…

          • Guest

            Anonamo, I can only agree with you that we see violence in very different ways and I can only say “I disagree”.

        • NealeDonaldWalsch

          I agree with my friend Christopher here, Anonamo. I find it amazing that any person could find a game that requires the complete and violent destruction of another to be “entertaining.” We’ll set aside for the moment the fact that in recent years the level of graphic depiction in these games — heads blowing off, blood gushing from bodies, exec. — and simply focus on the central question: Since when does any advanced society find “fun” or “thrills” in any kind of “game” or activity in which killing and maiming is the pathway to victory? To say nothing of games in which the NUMBER of opponents that are killed is what ups the score…

          It may or may not be true that for people “in tune,” violent images have no effect on the mind…but how do you determine at the point of sale which buyer fall into the category of folks who are “in tune”? Shall we put a label on each product? “WARNING: Not appropriate for children or adults who are not products of a loving family and a caring environment.”

          Further, I have observed that even people who are “in tune” with the finer ideas about life and the finer aspects of behavior can see their behavior influenced and even modified by repeated exposure to certain images.

          No matter how mature and sacred a person may be around their sexuality, for instance, no one will ever convince me that the increasingly explicit sexual content of advertisements and entertainments has not increased the objectification of women in today’s society.

          Go Daddy did not create the GoDaddy Girls because it did not think it would increase male use of its flagship product. It understood perfectly well that virtually naked, writhing women would create a certain response and attract a particular audience. To suggest that exposing the mind to particular images repeatedly has no effect whatsoever on the mind is, in my opinion, a specious argument.

          But let me be clear. I am not saying that it is not possible for a person to play extremely explicitly violent video games and nevertheless refuse in “real life” to ever personally engage in inflicting violence upon another. I am certain, in fact, that this IS possible. The question is not whether such a thing is possible, but whether the “enjoyment” of such violent games in the culture makes it increasingly more probable that violence will be seen as a not-inappropriate response to particular situations.

          The challenge, as I see it, is that increasingly violent games, movies, television programs and even comic books, for heaven sake, tends to have a normalizing and an immunizing effect on a society as a whole, desensitizing its members — and particularly the impressionable young — to the “not okayness” of using violence to solve their problems.

          I believe statistics will show, for example, that there have been more random acts of violence committed by 8 and 9-year-olds (to say nothing of 15 and 16-year-olds) over the past 20 years than ever before.

          To use a reverse example, the incidents of smoking in the U.S. was much higher, both among adults and young adults, 30 years ago than it is today. The noticeable reduction in smoking occurred simultaneously with the elimination of cigarette advertising on television and the voluntary removal by producers and directors of cigarette smoking in most movies.

          Coincidence?

          I don’t think so.

          What a culture normalizes, and especially what a culture considers “entertainment”, tends to reflect what a culture demonstrates — and vice-versa.

          • Anonamo

            You’re absolutely right, Neale, in one sense. In regards to a society of not very evolved beings, it isn’t right to normalize violence since most of the people in it can’t properly contextualize it. So in regards to the planet Earth itself, you are right about this matter as a whole. However, if the right type of spiritual base was present and widespread, this would all be a total non-issue.

            For me, I will accept violent media and process it the right way. I will also do everything I can to get us to a point where we understand ourselves well enough to not enact these things in real life. But there comes a point, after shouting out the most true spiritual doctrines in the world for the longest time, that embracing these concepts comes down to an individual choice and personal responsibility. I can’t make people see things a certain way, but this is another classic thing spiritualists regularly explore.

            Therefore, i won’t sweat it when people are still acting out one of the “lower highest notions” of who they are. They’ll come back to themselves eventually. This Earth is such a smorgasboard of different people that you can’t satisfy everyone… In the end we can only do the best we can and hope for the best.

          • mewabe

            The question that needs to be asked, beside any effect the enjoyment of virtual violence may have on anyone, is: WHY WOULD ANYONE WHO PROFESSES TO BE EVOLVED ENJOY GRAPHIC VIOLENCE?

            What is fun about blowing people up and seeing blood flow in virtual reality?

            Honestly? Would virtual gang rape be fun as well? If not, why not? Why stop anywhere, since it can all be properly processed, according to you, by so-called evolved individuals?

            Would Gandhi or Buddha have enjoyed these graphically violent video games?

            Another point that is missed: this is the perfect training for the military. Push a button in a safe room somewhere on a military base and blow people apart thousands of miles away…WOW!…Great hit!….SWEET!

  • Awareness

    “The original plan was for us to observe all of the patterns of perfection in the Causal Body of God, and then through our unique perception and our unique ways of thinking and feeling, we would create previously unknown expressions of Divinity. This would expand the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth and teach us to be cocreators with our Father-Mother God. Unfortunately, when we fell into the paralyzing grip of separation and duality and developed our fear-based human egos everything changed. From that point on, instead of creating Heaven on Earth we used our free will and our thoughts and feelings to create all manner of pain and suffering. With that tragic occurrence, our Body Elemental and the Elemental Beings associated with the earth, air, fire, water, and ether elements were forced to create gross mutations not only in Humanity’s physical, etheric, mental, and emotional bodies, but throughout the Nature Kingdom and the Bodies of Mother Earth as well. These mutations have manifested, and are manifesting now, as every conceivable form of pain and suffering on this Planet.

    Now let’s fast forward to this Cosmic Moment. We are in the midst of Ascending into the infinite perfection of the 5th-Dimensional New Earth. However, the ONLY way we are going to successfully Ascend into the patterns of perfection for the New Earth, and to create the physical bodies of vibrant health, eternal youth, and radiant beauty that all of the prophecies have told us we will abide in on the New Earth, is for Humanity and our Body Elementals to heal the schism between us and to begin cooperating on a conscious level. The fastest and most effective way of doing that is for ALL of us to transcend our human egos, and to begin functioning from the level of Christ Consciousness associated with our I AM Presence. Due to the miracles that have taken place since the birth of the New Earth on December 21 – 22, 2012, that shift of consciousness has already begun and will be much easier than you might imagine.

    During the month of April 2014, we are receiving an unprecedented influx of Light that will assist us in accomplishing our goals in what will seem like miraculous ways. As you read the following words, KNOW that you are powerful beyond our knowing and that this month Humanity is being presented with a life-transforming opportunity.” by Patricia Cota-Robles 🙂

    Bless ALL 🙂

    • Awareness

      “That this Awareness would agree that there is significance to this month of April. That the date April 15th has been suggested when something may happen, but this Awareness would rather say that April 15th is but the beginning of a new flow of energies that are ready to sweep in. Indeed this Awareness would ask that you individuals do not put such emphasis on one single day, anticipating something of great magnitude on that day, for if nothing occurs there may be great disappointment and anger that nothing happened even though so many have been predicting things.

      This Awareness would say of this day, of this day of April 15th that it will be the leading edge of a wave that is coming, a wave of consciousness that is ready to roll into the beaches and coasts of the nations and of humanity itself. But it is seen more like the leading edge of a tsunami.”

      “That this Awareness would also say of this period of time in this month of April that the greater energy will truly be available on the 20th of April and for several days thereafter.”

      “That the new times that are ready to sweep in will indeed sweep away many of the old ways and for many who cling to the old ways, this will be a great disaster, a great tragedy, a great challenge.”

      “Therefore this Awareness does indeed state that this month, especially from the 15th of April onward and in particular the 20th, 21st, 22nd, and 23rd of April, are intense times. That they will be experienced in exactly the way that you, the individual, needs to experience them; you the individual expression of the soul has planned it.”

      “Remember that it is so, remember that you will be well. That you can take measures to ensure that no matter what occurs around you or in the world itself that you are all right. That you can extend this understanding to your loved ones and friends and hold that they will be all right. That this will help if you are of a nature that is fearful of what might happen to family and friends, but with this there must also be the understanding and recognition that each is responsible for their own destiny. Each has their individual design and plan, the design and plan of the soul that has projected itself into this present timeline and these present timelines that are unfolding.

      Therefore in the times ahead, be aware that they are energies that have long been awaited, are energies that are not simply about death and destruction and the upheaval of all that has been in the sweeping away of what once was. They are the waves of change that you have so long awaited and so long wished for. Now is your chance to rise above these waves, to be observer to them, participating in the changes in consciousness but not being swept up in the madness, the chaos, the negativities that will be also released during these times.

      That this Awareness does indeed support that the times ahead are crucial, and rather than project negative energies to these events, that this Awareness would simply say: be ready, be prepared, have trust, have faith and know that all will be well.” by Cosmic Awareness (GREAT SPIRIT! GREAT AWARENESS!) 🙂

      Bless ALL 🙂

  • mewabe

    Yes Neale, there is a contradiction, I know…I will not try to justify or defend it, but
    perhaps I can clarify my position. It is more the outcome of a trait of character than of deliberate thought.

    I have a very strong, fierce need for independence, I always had it, perhaps it is a flaw, perhaps it is a quality, I believe that is it an integral part of being born an artist (generally artists follow their own paths and inspiration and manifest the uniqueness of their
    expression), but I understand that such a need may cause me to make statements and choices that are not necessarily rational when seen from another perspective.

    I totally relate to a Native American saying: “Do not walk ahead of me, do not walk behind me, walk beside me”. Similarly, I would never lead, and I would never follow. This is just a way of being, I do not mean to imply that it is a way of being better, although I probably come across as if I thought it were, which is not good I know.

    What I meant by teamwork was egalitarian collaboration, not working under any kind of leadership. I believe that people who have roughly similar visions can collaborate as independent thinkers and doers, their efforts coalescing in an organic way into a
    whole, global movement that is not hierarchical and that is constantly reinventing, recreating itself, rather than set in principles that are more of less strictly defined.

    I distrust group thinking because I have a tendency to doubt anything that all can agree on, as my immediate reaction is: let’s look at this upside down and sideways and inside-out before we all decide that this statement is ready to be written in stone for all eternity. I do this with my own thoughts, as the instant I decide that something is true for me, I see that the opposite is just as true and valuable.

    In other words I never cease to question everything. Does it make me a nihilist? Who knows…I relate best to the wind, always changing and always in movement.

    Some may think that functioning without leadership would be anarchy, and ineffective, much like the OWS movement that was critised for that. But that was part of their message, which is verydifficult for a world that is used to rules and hierarchy to comprehend and apply.

    But I would not and should not imply that this is a preferable way. I do not want to discourage people to join anything, such as Humanity’s Team. There is place for all different forms of transformative efforts in our world, and they all complement one
    another.

    Personally, I choose a more action-oriented, rather than a theology-oriented approach. I understand the need for having the support of a spiritual community, and for addressing crucial spiritual questions which appear to be the foundation of all we think and do, but this is not something I can do in a group, perhaps because I have such an intense personal aversion to all original religions and all that even vaguely resemble a religious assembly, even when it is not and is actually a spiritual assembly, when under a leadership or a teaching. I would never be a lamb, but forever will remain a wolf.

    It must be a flaw, but it is all mine 🙂

    • Christopher Toft

      Hi Mewabe,
      “But what I would see as real teamwork would be an effort to integrate all roughly similar spiritual, culturally progressive, and activist movements into a massive global movement, not one that would be under any kind of leadership or single theology, but loosely organized in the form of egalitarian collaboration.”

      I have a slightly fuzzy sense that this is exactly what humanity’s team does. I’m not sure, you’d have to ask Neale.

      • mewabe

        Have you seen the website? It is not clear to me either. Apart from conferences and lectures and other activities by other spiritual “leaders”, I am not sure what Humanity Team does or organizes, and who it collaborates with. Perhaps it should be better explained, in more practical details rather than generalizations, before someone joins.

        • Christopher Toft

          Hey Mewabe, I figured out what was confusing about Humanity’s team! The name boggled my mind because I was thinking “But if you’re for everyone you’re against no-one, which sounds like nonsense”. Until you step out of either/or and realise that being for everyone & everything doesn’t mean condoning destructive behaviours and thinking. That’s exciting! I can get on board with that:)
          Now all I have to do is figure out how “Global oneness day” helps us in a practical way(Is it like gay pride??) and what practical action the group engages in.

          • Christopher Toft

            Neale is Humanity’s team sort of like the “real world” equivalent of the global conversation? A bunch of like minded people coming together to learn from each other and express oneness in their behaviour, in order to help others to sit up and take notice?

  • You can not stop me from expressing my own point-of-view Neale.

  • IF you really don’t want my comments, can I have back my 12 BUCKS?

  • I’m just a Private Individual and NOT an Organization, I’m sure that amount of money means more to me than it does to you.

  • I figured there is more to your Ideology than Capitalism, guess I was wrong.

  • Sorry to be so RUDE, but the person who marked me as SPAM really deserves it!

    • We I must say that I AM my Father’s Son and I’ve learned from him how to moderate my arguments with the VOICE.

  • I Always Profess my own Personal Truth as I see the World Today. If you can’t appreciate my sincerity, then I don’t really need you.

    • If you filter Comments Based on Keywords, you’re still restraining Human Rights and Freedoms by doing so.

      • It is not my intent to advertise a FOR PROFIT ORGANIZATION – I do not represent any such organized group, I only represent my own personal point-of-view.

  • HOPE YOU ENJOY THE REST OF YOUR MORTAL LIFE Because I’m sure there is gonna be an end to it.

    • NealeDonaldWalsch

      My dear Kenneth…I am unclear what has caused you such consternation. Can you tell me what has happened here to create such upset?

      • One of my comments was probably marked as SPAM automatically. However, as you can see, several comments I’ve made were not marked as SPAM, so I know you have not elected to moderate posts. I do not believe it’s your fault this happened, but you might be able to correct the situation, I’m not entirely sure how this works from your end.

        • NealeDonaldWalsch

          Well, Ken, there are only two things that will automatically cause an entry to be removed from the site: (a) certain words that may be considered obscene or deeply defamatory (racial epitaphs, for instance, or ugly gender slurs, etc.), and (b) links to other sites.

          There are two reasons for this. (1) This is a Family Friendly site, and we reserve the right to keep the ugliest kind of language off of its pages; (2) We wish to ensure that our readers here are not being taken to some unwelcome or unsavory site elsewhere.

          Our rationale for #1: We believe that people can and should be willing to disagree agreeably, and we do not feel we are limiting people’s ability to express their point of view by simply asking them to remain civil in their discourse.

          Our rationale for #2: Certain elements on the Internet spend all their time looking for websites that have drawn a substantial audience, then post links on those sites taking their readers to sales pages, promotional activities, or, worse yet, porn sites, hoping to capture a tiny percentage of audience with each such strategy. We would have to follow every link that is posted on this site to ensure that this does not happen — or, much easier administratively, prohibit the posting of links to other sites altogether in the public entries here. We have chosen to do the latter.

          Not everyone agrees with these policies, and we understand that. We have not, however, spent considerable time and resources creating a website that has attracted over 450,000 unique visitors in order to have our audience verbally assaulted, insulted, abused, or taken to other sites in which they may have no interest and by which they may even be offended. So we have made these decisions, and we trust that most of our visitors here will find it possible to live with them, even if they disagree.

          I have no idea why something you posted did not get entered here, but I can tell you that less than .05% of the entries posted here are automated out. By all means share here whatever ideas you may have. All of our readers are invited to do so. That’s why this is called “The Global Conversation”!

          Sending peace, joy, and every good thought…Neale.

          • However, my comment did not include any links.

          • My LOVE Will NEVER FAIL to be sent to you and yours, I make no exceptions, regardless of what they have done in the past. Our life and work in the World, does not Create the Personality behind it. It may only serve to reveal that personality to the World.

        • Gina

          Posts are filtered by the web site algorithm, just as on Facebook not all posts show up immediately in the news feed or at all. Certain posts you make visible to the public are delayed in showing up, esp the ones with a simple URL or video that would draw people away from Facebook. I notice that they appear at least 72 hours later. There is ‘Please Note’ under each entry on this site which, if you read an entry through to the end, you can’t avoid noticing. From what I gathered, people get really upset about their comments delayed thinking that someone sits there to read and filter each one, but people are not considerate enough to read the conditions or to wait until it becomes clear how this thing functions. I don’t understand why they are in such a rush to jump in with answers or start criticizing someone while they didn’t even finish reading the question??? Some thing to think about…

          • Gina you are very correct in making the ASSERTION that I do not IN FACT Understand how everything on the Internet Works. But it does not follow through to a conclusion that I’m overly impatient.

          • Gina

            It follows through to a conclusion that you have not read the note or even a couple previous headlines and comments, because I replied to the same inquiry just a couple pages ago. It is also clear that you did not wait until someone explains it to you or you understand it thoroughly, but started spamming the web site as you did. Someone is free to conclude that that is impatience or not. I didn’t say that.

          • AND Yet that spam was not filtered automatically.

          • A Sainer and more lengthy discourse on how on things really are in the world today, did get filtered.

          • Gina

            Now you understand how it works. I find it beneficial to expand that observing before speaking or acting to include other aspects of my life, as I doubt anyone would NOT, before signing important contracts such as sales or employment.

          • Well I probably need a little more practice at improving my Personal Habits. 🙂
            There is a Good Reason for Everything my Friend.

          • Only the very young at Heart are Willing to GIVE UP, in a fit of RAGE.

      • Please Just Call me Ken when addressing me. All my Best-Friends in Life have always called me that.

  • If we’ve never been able to examine the evidence, we should not make assumptions about it’s content, and thereby conclude that it is either appropriate or inappropriate. Over the course of my life I have oft been accused of Inappropriate Behavior, And I Really do not appreciate it.

    • Only a Real Human Being can do that job, I should never be made subject to automation and computer algorithms. IF we choose to delegate that responsibility to a machine we only cause grief. Therefor I feel that my feelings are appropriate to the situation.

  • And Of course we must LET this serve as my introduction to your Global Community. I can never go back and change the things that have been said.

  • We are killing our oceans by overfishing and millions of tons of plastic which is even worse than oil.

    If we eventually kill the ocean as we currently are, much of all life on this planet will eventually cease.

    We need our military & navy to fight to clean up our oceans. That’s what we can use our tax payer money for great good.

    I visualize that we & the world will find great solutions to our ocean killing pollution ways. That is one way I add positive energy & specific focused energy so that it attaches to other like minded energy & thus grows & expands.

    I’m certainly not opposed to creating a small collective here on this site that focuses on the solution not the problems we face & talk about so endlessly.

    We could set our own top 10 priorities of what we think our are most urgent problems & go from there. Any takers?

    • Stephen mills

      Hi Marko .

      I caught the local news this morning .It was about how the economy in the city of Aberdeen was booming due to the oil and Gas industries and how the people working in these sectors where spending there money buying more and more 4×4 cars and there are now more of these types of cars than in London.This was the good news !

      Can anyone tell me what,s wrong with this picture !

      Did the media forget about last weeks Ipcc report saying if Humanity did not reduce its use of Fossil fuels it,s game over for humans and there oil obsessed culture ? Plastic is a by product of oil ,in fact anything that you can make from hydro carbons you can make from a carbohydrate source such as HEMP .Now tell me why that is not news headlines !

      What the matter with us ?

      • mewabe

        “We are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore!”

        At times a little healthy anger could be helpful to get that proverbial butt off the proverbial couch.

        The next step is to support those who are already doing the work. This is what is lacking here. I would think that changing the world should entail a cooperative effort at all levels: at the level Neale proposes (examining old beliefs), at the level Marko proposes (visualizations and other efforts at the level of consciousness) and at the grass root, activist, practical level.

        That, specifically, would be real teamwork!

        Personally, I have always used all three ways throughout my life, in addition to a couple of other methods, including psychology and parapsychology.

        Why isn’t there a collaborative effort on all these levels, why does the effort to make the world a better place remain totally fragmented?

        • Stephen mills

          Just read about a battery that runs from sugar, 10 x the power of lithium and zero chemicals ! Google sugar powered battery .

          Just think of the potential zero pollution and zero waste nature does it best .They say it will be ready to go in three years .Now that’s what progress looks like using a natural abundant substance to run car batteries no more dirty polluting fossil fuel engines.

          I,am happy today this made me happy can you believe it some positive news it’s so unbelievable .

          • mewabe

            I just googled it…this is perfect!

            Here are some other good news, about the on-going research to run cars on water (through electrolysis to obtain hydrogen):

            “One group from Purdue University is hot on the trail. They’ve come up with a process to split hydrogen from water that requires little or no energy input. Adding water to a composite metal (alloy)
            made of aluminum and gallium separates water into its component
            molecules. The composite attracts oxygen, but not hydrogen, leaving the former element free and separated.
            The Purdue researchers are still developing the technology, and it may be awhile before you find it under your hood.”

            It’s all going in the right direction.

      • Thanks Stephen, I see a lot of positive stuff on hemp on Facebook & sustainability, I feel the time is more ripe for such thinkings & it’s only a manner of time. Facebook as I currently see it is the peoples media. We get to share the solutions & insights there.

        If I had one message to give it would be to visualize, meditate on the solutions, not the problems. To let that be the focus. At this point we focus too much on the problems & not the solutions.

        It can be a tough call, as even if we went all solar, wind, tidal wave etc. it is still taking carbon energy to create it. Still it does seem the better alternative.

        I tend to believe there’re alternative low cost pollution free energy sources that already exist but are bought up & hidden by deep pocket corporations & government.

        If that is true, the awakening of the collective will eventually force that info out, or some kid or organization will simply put out newer creative alternatives info free on the internet, for all to see & use.

    • mewabe

      How dare you talk about solutions when we are having such a good old time pointing out all that stinks about the world…party pooper!

      I would consider be part of the collective, but will all be able to agree on the methods? The easiest may be to not be so specific (it is very doubtful that the Pentagon would agree with cleaning up the oceans…they never volunteered to clean up oil spills). Living the methods open may work best, while concentrating on the goal (in this case clean and healthy oceans).

      Have you ever taken time to sit quietly in nature by yourself and ask the earth what it needs most from us? I have…and the surprising but very real response was…love!

      Everything else flows from love, including respect, gratitude, and solutions.

      • I hear you on the skepticism of the military. 🙂 I’m just throwing out possibilities & I like to think that all things are possible regardless of the doubtfulness of the mind.

        I wish we’d give the energy we do on the complaining of the problems to solutions.

        Solutions can be experimental, creative & changing as we grow & open up to more information as the mind shuts up & the love energy is allowed to flow. The mind is both friend & enemy. It is both the problem & solution.

        As I’ve mentioned b4 & most likely will again. I feel we have to Imagine & visualize what we desire first b4 we see it actually happen. The visualization is a first response so that the action energy can come forth however that looks & is inspired.

        I’m not sure even people here & more advancing spiritual thinkers have disciplined their minds enough to see & feel solutions as the dominant part of their thinking, but I feel I have to whatever degree I be & do. If the collective has this mindset as well, I can Imagine things moving more swiftly.

        People long for solutions, and I believe will get on board enthusiastically when they sense something will work & they can get behind it. If the government doesn’t get behind this, the people will have to lead & the gov. will have to follow.

        As for meditation, as much as I agree with the good that it gives most people, I’m not a regular meditator. I like to feel my life is a form of meditation & meditation is used by me when I simply need to be more quiet or use it as another method to hear solutions or insights from the Universal Source.

        That said, I do swim laps several times a week for ½ mile at a time & that is definitely a time for meditation & affirmations. As I think of it I do meditations before bed & when I get up as a way to start & end my day with little meditations through out the day, so I guess I do meditate, just not traditionally.

        As for meditating in nature. It’s walks mostly by Lake Michigan & the woods at beautiful parks or nature reserves. Have you heard of Michael Roads books “Talking with Nature?”

        God, nature, the angels etc are all worthy places to get insights, messages & solutions. It all comes form the same energy source. How well we allow that info to come in, with less interference without distorted filters makes all the difference.

        Love is the answer, we just need to utilize it on a larger creative collective level. As I like to say be solution oriented not problem centered. Live in the solution, not the problem.

        • mewabe

          Thanks Marko…I do not meditate either…I just contemplate, I let myself go into the alpha and theta states spontaneously, when I am in the natural world. It just happens. I always did that, even as a teenager. I also do this while painting and creating.

          I had not heard of the Michael Roads book, but I might read it. I have also always conversed with nature, and got potent messages from diverse sources, verifiable, unmistakably accurate messages. I also routinely experience the very real response a plant gives when we feel and express our gratitude for its gifts. I guess all of this happens at what some call the esp level…for me it is just a direct contact at the level of consciousness.
          I have always believed everything had its own form of consciousness, while also being connected to the source and part of the all.

          Even though I write a lot about problems here, I am very much solution oriented, I believe every problem has at least one, if not many solutions. This is how I live my life…I love resolving problems, and fast. I have also used visualization since I was about 12 years old (I don’t remember where I got the idea…I don’t think anyone knew about it at the time). I used it for school, such as before a test, etc. and it always worked. I never told my parents or anyone else, I did not think anyone would understand. I simply visualized myself passing a test successfully…by “”dreaming” it in my mind, consciously going through every step. By the time I was done, I knew it was in the bag.

          I knew many things when I was very young…later in life I forgot to practice some of them, or got lazy.

          • Great stuff! I have at times communicated with domestic animals plants etc. but it’s a skill I have not honed,…. but food is a great excuse for gratitude, so I’m with you there.

            I do use animal communicators to check on our cats & know they understand me quite well when I talk with them.

            I’m pretty much a urban person who loves nature & prefers sunny weather, even though I live in Wisconsin.

            I blog & share my wisdom on a few sites & even Facebook now which to me is the peoples media.

            I’m slowly getting rid of clutter which is difficult if you are a creative person & like to collect stuff.

            There is a lot of horrible stuff in our world, more than we probably realize. Yet it’s along side of really beautiful stuff as well.

            I feel we are on the verge of a breakthrough of a new spiritual renaissance & things may possibly get worse even way worse before they settle into a more peaceful harmonious collective decision. Yet it doesn’t have to happen that way, we will see.

            Who knows really? So like you & others I visualize & influence as best I can a new state of beingness, for me & the world.

          • Kristen

            Marko – completely off the subject here but I would appreciate your input on something about animal communicators as you mentioned.

            My pregnant cat ( not my fault) disappeared overnight and a very good cat communicator accidently tuned into our other cat who was with me at the time. She asked him about the other, and told him to get her home etc. She did turn up an hour later and all is well BUT my lovely boy cat who was very playful, toned and actively happy and loving seemed to change overnight. Hes still lovely but seemed to lose a lot of his personality, permanently looks confused and has seriously grown 5cm in length and height and put on 3kg. On just a raw meat, tuna and pet milk diet he has always been on. He grew HUGE at three years old. Have you ever experienced anything like this after communication with pets or heard of it?? I joke someone stole his soul and replaced it with another – joking I hope. Or it could just be from his best friend getting up the duff then being separated quite a bit whilst she had the kitten (now 5 months old and still nursing – pathetic wuss – I sure get odd pets).

            And yes I agree with you that cats understand very well when we talk to them, mine have always understood a lot more than key words and seem to completely understand simple English as a human baby can at a year old.

            De cluttering for creative people and collectors. Yup, it’s hard. Everything has such potential in out eyes. If you look up the things you collect in a dream interpretation book or online you will see the traits or future potential you have in abundance. Collections represent abundance. And it is nothing to do with hoarding or craziness, collecting is a compliment from The Source and Universe for having well over average in certain traits. IF you want me to define them for you just put them in here and I can (my major in Psychology was this kind of stuff). I have vintage bottles, wine glasses, white candles, antique tools, medical supplies (suitcase full), glass bottles, fabric & material, books, oil lamps, antique miniatures, music manuscripts, different beers and drinks, probably food, white crockery and probably linen and bedding too. Thank God I understand it and restrict myself to one metre long shelf for any collection other than fabric and bedding. Which is a room!! And I don’t sew!!

          • Since you already used a communicator I’d suggest a vet. I’m sure many pet owners er, pet care takers experience strange stuff with their animals at times including myself.

            As for clutter er collectibles & interpretation. I tend to come from the philosophy of world wide known dream psychologist Gayle Delaney who steers people to understand their own personal dream symbols. Not dream interpretation books.

            The reason would be if you are attacked by a German shepherd dog as a kid your interpretation of such a dog in a dream will be much different than someone who was saved by one.

            Thus we create our own personal symbols be they dreams or collectibles. Like CwG they have only the meaning we give them.

          • Kristen

            Cats fine medically, it was purely a question from the use of a communicator experience and if you had noticed changes after they communicate with your pets.

            I agree regarding personal interpretation of dreams, however I am not talking of dreams, our physical lives are governed by The Source ‘telling’ us to love/like/be neutral/dislike/hate things as a way of ensuring good people have and want the good stuff, and those less desirable to The Source/Aliens/Evil etc have horrid stuff in their lives. This is completely standardised and universal, with the definitions of these objects/clothes etc found in stardard symbolism/dream interpretation books. They apply more to our physical lives than dreams.

            Happy Easter.

  • Therese

    “Those that are influenced by violence are those that are either in a mind
    altered state, in which case anything can affect you, or they were neglected and abused growing up.” (One of you said that! I have lost track of who in my reading!)

    There are many who believe that a huge portion of our children ARE neglected. Why? Because of the same influences Neale speaks of in his post. We were caused (by good marketing) to believe that who we are is defined by something outside of ourselves. This caused us to want all of the “things” that we were told would fill us, all of the “stuff” that would reinforce our validation from the outside in. People would look up to us if we had the big house. Admire us if we have the cool car and the latest fashion. We became addicted to these things to the point where we eventually had to have two people working to proved the approval we craved.

    But what of the children who once had a parent at home to guide them? Who once had a parent, actually sitting with them while they watched television or played the video game, and switched the channel when something came on that would be upsetting or misunderstood? What happens to a child who has no one to put into context what they see when their primary “babysitter” is electronic, or a person who has no emotional connection?

    What happens is a child, a teenager and an adult who takes the images and messages of the violence they see and translates that into real life. Why? Because science has shown that even simulated violence creates exactly the same chemical reactions in the brain and the body as does real violence. Science has also shown that even hearing about a loving act creates almost exactly the same emotional/physical/mental reaction as actually DOing the loving thing. Our human bodies and minds don’t know how to distinguish. If this is the case, then even playing these games with the clear knowing they are fantasy, is still creating all of those tense, negative chemically induced reactions in your body…and harming it.

    So, until and unless we ARE more advanced as a society, I think it is fair to say that it is better to go to the root of the problem, as Neale suggests, than to do the esoteric word dance. We DO have a problem, as a world culture. We DO have a planet which, for a myriad of reasons (not to mention parents who have died in wars, are imprisoned or died of starvation etc.) is the result of child abuse and neglect.

    • Anonamo

      “If this is the case, then even playing these games with the clear
      knowing they are fantasy, is still creating all of those tense, negative
      chemically induced reactions in your body…and harming it.”

      NO. In regards to my experience, absolutely and unequivocally NO. I’m sorry, but anyone who argues these points are on a TOTALLY different level than I am (not a “lower” one, just a different one). I have NEVER experienced ANY involuntary changes in myself, regardless of all the hardcore violence I have exposed myself to on a regular basis. Don’t even begin to try and judge my experience (and maybe you aren’t, that’s a general remark), because if there has been any intense negativity I have experienced, the cause had been entirely different. GOD has screamed this at me in so many ways, in my physical life as well as my nonphysical one. I can’t even begin to describe the kinds of concrete, tangible synchronicities I’ve gotten in these regards.

      The idea that playing violent video games, from the place I come from (this invalidates your argument)*, is harming me is DOWNRIGHT offensive to me, and I can barely contain myself as I type these words. There is a part of me that just wants to SCREAM at the top of my lungs, that EVERYTHING I have heard in my most deepest, nonjudgmental meditations has reinforced all that I know. So if I’m wrong, I’ve been guided by Satan himself, and if he is able to do this, then we’re all doomed.

      It is not what you say, it is how you say. In the same way, it is not what you do, it is how you mean it that counts. THAT’S ALL I’VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY. YES. Violence affects an undeveloped spirit badly. But I have, since LITERALLY about the age of 8 or 9 sought to know god as he tells me he is. I have never once sought to impose my ideas of God, on God. He tells me all the things I’ve known in these regards and I respond to those messages accordingly.

      I don’t expect anyone to understand this concept that LITERALLY nothing is wrong if it comes from the right energy center. Violence is meaningless in the absences of perspective. It is only when awareness gets involved that it becomes colored with the palette of the soul’s awareness. That can be a positive or a negative palette.

      EVERYONE has free will at all times, no matter what you think. Some people can be affected depending on their level of advancement, but no matter what, there comes a time, when the TV is turned off, that anyone can choose to change their mind. And simply put, in regards to violence, people seek to answer the question about its nature through the limited MIND and not the SOUL, which has unlimited resources at its disposal.

      This is NOT A MATTER OF HELPLESS SOULS BEING TOSSED ABOUT IN A STORM OF VIOLENT MEDIA THAT THEY CANNOT PROPERLY UNDERSTAND. It is a matter, to an important degree*, of certain souls choosing not to or failing to understand these things on the right level.

      I must admit, this post I’m responding to has touched a nerve*. Seriously, it did. Because my experience has conclusively proven that while outside conditions can have a transient effect on a person, ultimately the way a person is affected by something is determined by the previous choices they have made that determined who they are up to that point.

      Therefore when anyone tries to make excuses for their state of being by saying “they’re harming themselves whether they know it our not and it’s chemically proven” have not yet reached the level of spiritual responsibility that governs a society that is not outright INSANE like the Earth’s.

      I was raised to not be overly competitive, and (as I chose to explore it) appreciate the darker side of God’s psyche. Therefore I take pleasure in the things SO many people will TOTALLY misinterpet as the cancer that is killing our society. In essence, I wanted to know… Does God have a dark side? The answer I got is YES He does, but it’s not the kind of darkness that people of this Earth know, darkness that is equated to evil/horror. Instead, the Darkness of God is a state of being that is simply a different color, not an evil one.

      So go ahead and misinterpret the heck out of this message. There are many who simply will not understand where I’m coming from, but I felt compelled to try and articulate my point. Regardless, the warmness that I feel as I type these words reinforces what I know. Or else I would never click “Post”… Take all that for what you will.

      • mewabe

        The question that needs to be asked, beside any effect the enjoyment
        of virtual violence may have on anyone, is: WHY WOULD ANYONE WHO
        PROFESSES TO BE EVOLVED OR EVEN NORMAL ENJOY GRAPHIC VIOLENCE?

        What is fun about blowing people up and seeing blood flow in virtual reality?

        Honestly?
        Would virtual gang rape be fun as well? If not, why not? Why stop
        anywhere, since it can all be properly processed, according to you, by
        so-called evolved individuals?

        Would Gandhi or Buddha have enjoyed these graphically violent video games?

        Another
        point that is missed: this is the perfect training for the military.
        Push a button in a safe room somewhere on a military base and blow
        people apart thousands of miles away…WOW!…Great hit!….SWEET!

        • Anonamo

          The idea of killing someone in real life is totally abhorrent. The idea of killing a virtual person can be enjoyable. Do you like donuts? Maybe you do. Do I like playing violent games? Absolutely. You can eat donuts in a way that totally destroys your body. Someone can play games in way that inspires them to terrorism. Violent games/media to the audience here on this site are an acquired taste that no one here is willing to acquire or even consider that they exist that way (or maybe I’m assuming too much on that last point).

          You can do ANYTHING the wrong way and have it harm your soul, and that “anything” can be just as detrimental as the act of violence. Also, there are no victims or villains on this Earth, so with all due respect, don’t put this on me about games being the perfect training for the military. Everyone has their ability to choose what they want in their lives, and if it seems like they HAVE NO ability to do so, that they’re a total victim, you are essentially implying that there’s a problem with that soul’s choices or with the way* God made the universe. Don’t judge the path of another soul, although I’m not assuming you are.

          “WHY WOULD ANYONE WHO PROFESSES TO BE EVOLVED OR EVEN MINIMALLY WELL ADJUSTED ENJOY GRAPHIC VIOLENCE?”

          Simply put, it’s just something that CAN be enjoyed by a person of evolved consciousness. And ultimately, in a certain sense, nothing in this universe even MATTERS. All value is totally invested, which is why a woman will leave her infant in the summer heat but take her yap dog into the store with her in her purse. I enjoy violence in games just because I CAN, and since my guidance doesn’t have a problem with it, I do. And that’s sacred, the ability to choose whatever I want in my life.

          You people who keep on deeply questioning this may not have gotten to the point where you realize that anything can be done with a good or bad intent. If free will is not infringed upon, and if it harms none, do as you will. Violent depictions against fake people do not reflect any desire to cause real harm.

          Also, I do profess to be very evolved actually, and am as well adjusted as I possibly can be. You may disagree, though it doesn’t seem like you posed your above question with that tone.

          I want to end with my own question and a challenge… Is anyone here going to even ATTEMPT to see where I’m coming from, like truly? I know your posts make it seem like you are, but are you TRULY setting aside all your judgments on this matter?

          I challenge everyone here to meditate on this. Ask your inner self the true nature of violence, as it knows the concept at the truest level, and state to it that you will not consider your own views on the matter for a brief time; you are ONLY asking a question. Then come back to me and tell me what you learned.

          If you won’t even consider doing this, then you’ve got something to learn about the concepts of neutrality and nonjudgment.

          As to your idea about being desensitized to violence, see my post about the psychological phenomenon which binds emotions to certain activities or events. It’s further down, I believe. I will offer this, though.

          I believe that people are naturally adverse to violence because they know that violent acts are being committed for all the wrong reasons and in all the wrong ways. When I talk about violence being okay, I mean the kind that harms no one and causes no infringement whatsoever.

          So in regards to the way it exists on Earth as a statement of negativity, you guys are totally right. However, if you apply those same terms of violence being wrong to the argument I am trying to make which it seems, regardless how clear I’ve made myself, you are doing, then you are totally wrong.

          • mewabe

            I do not enjoy donuts or anything that could harm me physically, not that I am trying to be perfect, but I have no need to ingest poison.

            My question to you was not about values but self-knowledge.

            If I enjoyed watching bloody horror movies, I would ask myself why.

            If I felt that it was fun to blow people and things up in virtual reality, I would ask myself why, because I would question this fantasy, and what it is in my own consciousness or in my psychological make up that enjoys this. Could it be about some buried, unconscious, unresolved anger or rage? About a need to experience power?

            Shouldn’t unresolved issues be healed and resolved, rather than acted out in fantasies, if one seeks liberation?

            I noticed that you did not address my comment about desensitization.

            For me, violence is UNNECESSARY. That’s a response from my deepest inner self. There is neither rage nor fear there but peace, so there is no need for violence.

            I do not fear violence, I do not hate violence, I do not judge it, I understand it for what it is: the expression of powerlessness.

          • Anonamo

            Okay, fair enough. I see violence (when no one is harmed) as an art form. In fact, there’s some author who said a very similar thing, that violence is the art form of the cinema. Google that quote, if you like.

            I don’t have any unresolved rage. Believe me, I’ve checked. However, you are appraising violence as “powerlessness” which means you see at is a thing related to a person’s personal growth. I am appraising violence as a silly, senseless joke.

            If you understood gamer culture, you’d know exactly what I mean. And about being desensitized, yes it is totally wrong in one sense, but not in the other. In the sense you mean it, in which you see a violent act and are not triggered by it emotionally at all, that’s bad.

            However, everyone eventually gets to a point where they will see a violent story in the media and not have an immediate, intensely sorrowful reaction. That does NOT mean that they don’t empathize with the other’s suffering. It only means that it no longer serves them to get depressed about the unfortunate circumstances of our world.

            (I gotta point out here really quick that about this next point, I am assuming evolved conditions, conditions that do not reflect the Earth at large. But for those who try to know themselves, this next point is important..)

            So I’ve addressed desensitization in one sense. For a gamer, we are not desensitzed to real world violence because we KNOW that’s bad and wrong. As for what we do in video games, that’s just something you can learn to enjoy, or totally reject. Since people of an evolved consciousness don’t use games as a mechanism to cultivate real, sadistic negativity, the standard concept of desensitization doesn’t really apply here.

            Also, why is gushing blood and gore so disturbing? A surgeon will tell you that blood and guts don’t disturb him.

            The reason why blood and guts in the context of human violence is automatically bad is because it is often times associated with hatred, rage, or, most importantly of all, intense pain. Blood and guts are just mechanisms that power the human body, nothing more. The real enemy here is the hatred that causes people to want to harm others, not violence.

            Blood and guts, to a gamer, are not disturbing because we are not hateful people and do not play games to cultivate hatred.

          • mewabe

            Anything can be called an art form, including torture. The ancient Chinese who practiced the torture of a thousand cuts no doubt put some artistry into their acts.

            When you state that you are appraising violence to be a silly, senseless joke, it may be where we differ…I tend to avoid senselessness, meaninglessness. If something has no meaning for me, I have no need for it. If it does have a meaning, I seek to understand what the meaning is.

            Read the book “Four Arguments For The Elimination Of Television”, by Jerry Menders, a successful advertising executive, if you wish to do so, as it applies to video games as well.

            “The idea that all technologies are “neutral,” benign instruments that can be used well or badly, is thrown open to profound doubt.”

            You will find, in this book, some pertinent facts about how the brain actually works, and how a deeper part of the brain cannot differentiate between fiction and reality when absorbing images.

            You think that your neo-cortex is in control, and it probably is, as it is its function. But a deeper, more primitive part of your brain is affected, whether you recognize it or not.

          • Anonamo

            Sure, okay. But some scientific evidence doesn’t take into account how god affects your brain and eliminates negative effects when he agrees with what you’re doing. I know, that’s a bold statement, but I still felt like I should say it.

            Yet again, I think we are appraising this on two different levels, though. I try not to go too deep with “finding a meaning” in everything. Sometimes I do things just for the simple enjoyment of it, something that is just as valid as finding deeper meanings in things.

            When I said that I find violence to be a silly, senseless joke, this doesn’t mean that I’m rotting my mind on it. It’s just that some things don’t NEED a deeper meaning, in my view… and they can still be wholesome.

          • mewabe

            Thank you for taking part in this interesting exchange.

            We seem to be worlds apart in our beliefs. I do not see the divine as being a personalized figure who either agrees or disagrees with what I do.

            The only agreement I personally need is with my own heart and soul.

            Obviously you feel like you can handle what you are doing…but such is not necessarily the case for others, especially very young children who are, it cannot be argued, impressionable, absorbing the world and information and trying to make sense of it, often without guidance or much support as parents use video games, as well as television, as baby sitters to essentially not have to be bothered being parents.

            Yet….

            …there is something that has been missed here: old fashioned cartoons were also EXTREMELY violent. They might not have been graphically violent, but the violence and brutality never ended, and it made young children laugh.

            So in a way, the video game violence, that you see as being a senseless joke, is just a step above the old cartoons.

          • Therese

            Wow! I watched this dialog unfold with no opportunity to participate. I must admit that I believe much the same things as mewabe, so I would merely be redundant in saying most anything.

            I will however note that mewabe did bring the discussion, in his last post, back to my original point, and that is what influence these games, and advertising, and television/movies have had on unguided children.

            Ananamo, you took what I considered to be the smallest point of my post, the one that seemed to you to be directed only to you, and went off in that vein. To me, the thrust of my post was to point out the larger truth, and indeed agree with you comment about abused and neglected children.

            Now, from the noticing, where do we go from here? How do we begin to change this? Yes, it can be changed. In the past mewabe has suggested eliminating television. Any other suggestions anyone?

          • mewabe

            I grew up without television (none whatsoever), and I am very grateful my parents made that decision (along with their decision to not have me start school before I was 6 years old, no preschool and kindergarten). Instead of watching television I read, and used my imagination and creativity, and when young played outside, spend much time in nature. I must add that both of my parents worked at home.

            As the pressure from a completely insane world culture keeps increasing, it becomes ever harder for parents to resist the onslaught as well as peer pressure from other children. I am not sure what the solution may be, expect perhaps home schooling and more outdoor activities.

            Unfortunately many parents (most?) are not qualified to be parents, lacking the skills because not having being adequately parented themselves.

            There are so many things that are wrong on so many levels, yet I believe human consciousness will sort it out and find its way through confusion. Many young children today are starting to display amazing qualities (rejecting violence and prejudice, for example).

            All extreme situations act as a catalyst to cause an opposite reaction, or said another way, all extreme “yin” changes into “yang”, and vice-versa.

          • Anonamo

            You could try to criminalize making violent material available to children who are known to be at risk. Government programs could be started to try and figure out which kids might be at risk. But before you did any of that, you would need to have research done that would conclusively prove, as I’m sure it would, that abused and neglected kids are indeed affected to whatever degree by violent media.

            If you can prove that giving certain kids access to violent media is a form of abuse, it would be easier to criminalize the act of letting them consume it. Then you’d need to also figure out how much violent media affects children who are not abused and neglected, and also how much affected kids that are raised in a sloppy way are, but not necessarily abused. I’m pretty certain that if you instill in a kid at an early age a concept of what reality is, though, it takes root powerfully in the subconscious mind and that acts as a kind of automatic filter to help them make those judgments.

          • Therese

            You could. But I would rather involve government in a different way. How about paying people in proportion to the profit of the company? This to allow one parent to stay home and give guidance to the child, who might then be able to make a conscious choice as to why they do, or do not, wish to play the game or doing anything in their lives. Or, how about everyone getting behind organizations that teach non-judgmental parenting so that we actually create parents who can give said guidance?

            Just as with most anything, if you are forced to not do something you do not of necessity believe or understand why a thing is not good for you. But…if it is your own choosing, that is a different story. We must teach children and adults, how to choose in a way that works.

          • Michael L

            Hi Therese,
            How do you pay folks in a failing or a Co. that hits a bad stretch. Nothing? Just a question in you next step in societies evolution.

          • Therese

            Well, Michael, the thought that springs to mind is that if we live in a world that has already guaranteed basic needs (food, shelter, medicine) then the “failure” of a company will not have the same kind of impact it does now.

            However, since that is not the case now, perhaps a step towards actually making life secure is to have every company (and every employee?) contribute a percentage of gross profits towards a “failure” fund. This fund would be unassailable by the company. This would be akin to what unions have in their strike fund, and would be distributed only in the event of failure or dramatic downturns. If the fund gets too large, it might work like a co-op and send out refunds to the companies and contributing employees.

            I haven’t really thought about such a thing before, Michael, but that’s what came to me when I did.

          • Kristen

            Hi ya,
            know this discussion is over, but I’ve just read it in brief.

            Anonamo, I understand where you are coming from. I do not believe exposure to things that are not of a persons nature will make a difference. I am 100% opposed to suffering in any form, yet I love horrors and thriller movies, as does my Barbie daughter. I have allowed my sons to play violent computer games as long as they are not R18 from the age of 13. BUT I will never allow anything that has any nudity, sex scenes, tits showing etc – to me this is a much worse influence on anyone.

            My kids are sane, calm, intelligent and happy, as you sound; people will always want to blame anyone and everything for their faults and those of their kids, but never accept that they are just how they are irrelevant of the games. Anyone with a brain can differentiate between games and reality. In previous generations, and in the USA in modern times, young males are joining the military to go off to war killing real people, this has never changed over time.

            I like Barbie and G.I. Goe – don’t diss them!!

          • Anonamo

            Quick question, though. How is nudity and sex worse than violence? Believing this seems like a double standard if we agree that nothing is wrong when it comes from the right intentions, namely ones that are not focused on causing any kind of suffering.

            In my meditations, I have come to realize that sex is, by its ACTUAL nature, no more “wrong” or destructive than the act of eating. As soon as people’s opinions get involved, though, THAT is when it becomes wrong.

            Pleasure in general is not wrong whatsoever if it is done in a way that does not harm. Our society is obssessed with making pleasure seem wrong, but somehow suffering that NOBODY can appreciate (the physical sensations don’t allow it) is suppossed to be “good”. This is one of the most evil things to ever to be born of human existence. And at a certain level, I really mean EVIL. If there ever was true evil, it is this, that pleasure is wrong and suffering is a required path to god.

            If you actually sat down and examined the bias you have against sex/nudity from a place and nonjudgment, you will find that this bias is founded not in the facts of the natural realm, but rather the opinions of other people who were never spiritually aware. At least, that’s what I’ve learned in my meditations.

          • Kristen

            Nothing wrong with sex, sexuality and pleasure at all – it is wrong to expose children to sexual images and over exposed bodies until age 18 when they are adults themselves.

            So you are then OK raising kids in a world if everyone is walking around naked, both with bodies as an art form but also in a sexualised way?????????????????

            The Biblical God has never been anti sex. He stated if you have sex before marriage you SHOULD get married, and never said bodies are to be fully covered up. When Angels met with and ‘impregnated’ Abrahams wife Sarai she was wearing a sunfrock with her chest and thighs visible. Yes, Christians are full of crock, but over the years they have dumped a hell of a lot of lies on God (Biblical God, not Neales God who is different). Which is why 99.99% of them are mortal and will not fare well on their Judgement Day.

  • Sander Viergevert

    I changed my live, all my (destructive, money-lust) behaviors. Because of the CWG books (and other personal live alterations) absolutely changed my consciousness, and how live, God and all works. What the meaning is and who I am. So if a great number of people like me is gonna changes their complete consciousness, (like I did in only 3,5 year), then the world will completely change. By the way, I like to being created small happy communities, see: Transition Network organisation, find it on google.

  • Blake

    When you want others
    to be upright, you must be upright first; when you want to inspire change, you
    must change your heart first. Thus, if you can recognize your mistakes and
    correct them, that is a good deed! When you can change yourself, then you can
    guide and influence others.

    Blessings

  • Anonamo

    I wanna say something now that may seem a bit off topic, but is also very important. It is in regards to polarity and what enables us to experience certain states of being. I actually already said this is in a thread below, so I’m only mostly copying and pasting what I said down there.

    I’ve learned recently that the opposite of love is NOT hatred. It’s Apathy. Hatred is a “third polarity” and a calculated
    risk that god took when he made us beings with full free will.

    Think about that for a second because I may have just dropped one of the biggest spiritual-knowledge bomb shells of all time…

    The opposite of Love is NOT Hatred.
    The opposite of Love is Apathy.

    Think about it. Loving someone means you care about them deeply.

    What’s the opposite of caring about someone?

    Not caring about them.

    The
    reason why hatred is a calculated risk and not a necessary agent of
    polarization is because it ends life, and when it remains unfettered,
    would do EVERYTHING to prevent it from coming back.

    • mewabe

      Indifference kills the world. A song was written about it in Europe in the 70’s…

      • Anonamo

        People will learn when they finally want to learn and for some, that time will only come when what they’re doing becomes too painful to continue doing.

        The reason I made my original post, though, is that I’ve come to thinking that demonstrating hate is not a recognition that you have failed to love, but rather you have failed to understand how the process of life works in general. I believe it goes like this:

        The opposite of Hate is Serenity
        The opposite of Apathy is Love

        Demonstrating hate shows that you don’t know how life works at all while demonstrating apathy gives you a context in which to experience love. The reason why is that apathy is not outright destructive. If I see a homeless man on the street and do nothing to help him, I have only allowed him to continue to express himself until he decides to seize his own personal powerful.

        This apathy on my part does not harm anyone but it also does not help anyone. However, if I were to hate that man and try to destroy him because I hated homeless people, that halts the expression of life outright and does not allow me to know love at all in the future. Instead, I simply have to go back to square one and learn how the technical systems of the universe works, systems that have nothing to do with morality.

        So demonstrating hatred is a technical failure, not a moral one. If I were serene, that is, demonstrating a general state of being divine, I could be apathetic and still be okay on a soul level. The destruction wrought by hate causes whole cycles to be repeated, cycles that could have lead to the final goal the divine seeks. Sometimes things take longer than they have to only because God allows us a very high degree of free will.

        So indifference can kill, but it is not the same as hatred, which is a dedicated, specific effort to destroy because you feed off of the wrong energies.

        • mewabe

          Okay, but I don’t relate to your thought process.

          Interestingly, failed relationships often evolve from love to hatred to ultimate indifference.

          Hatred can come from many different sources, but I see it as a failure first to accept, understand and love oneself, and projecting that on the outside world, on others. For example rejection, or judgment, can cause pain and then hatred, but isn’t it because a person has first judged and rejected herself or himself, and the rejection or judgment by another triggers that original wound, that original self-betrayal?

          We all use words and concept to try to make sense of the world, and I do that as well. But I come from a place of feeling first, not from my head. My thoughts originate in my heart experience. I do not relate well to pure conceptual exercises, to what I see as a form of left brain intellectual gymnastic…but we are all different, and all have something to contribute. I did not mean to challenge your original post…

          I have no clue and no interest in knowing what God “wants” or “seeks”. I only need to know what the divine is, and that is life. And the “purpose” of life is life. I don’t think in linear terms, in going from A to Z. Goals can be achieved in human society, but in my own form of spirituality, the “starting point”, the “journey” and the “goal” are all to BE, here, in the infinite, and now, in the eternal, and from that, life radiates in all directions at once.

  • mewabe

    Here is a simple thought (too simple for comfort?):

    If the only problem in our world is the nature of our beliefs (I do recognize it as a serious problem, but is it the CORE problem, the cause of all suffering?), why is it that the women who have the same archaic beliefs as men (a belief in a judging and punishing God) do not engage in the same violent and abusive acts?

    Hasn’t anyone noticed that every time there is a mass shooting for example, the shooter is male?

    Could it be that there is ALSO a very serious problem with male identity, with what culture defines as male? ((aggression, dominant power, fierce individualism, etc).

    That’s a hot topic, to be approached with caution…only by the brave at heart.

    • Christopher Toft

      “why is it that the women who have the same archaic beliefs as men (a belief in a judging and punishing God) do not engage in the same violent and abusive acts, or at least not to the same extent?”

      Maybe because they’re taught that woman are nice and non violent victims of the evil patriarchal conspiracy?

      “Hasn’t anyone noticed that every time there is a mass shooting for example, the shooter is male? People look at these shootings and conclude that there are too many easily available guns, or that the contributing factors are drug use or psychotropic medications, violent medias, etc…all of these things are obvious problems, but aren’t they still missing the MAIN pathology that is staring them in the face?”

      True. It’s okay for men to express violence as it’s somehow “masculine”(Whatever that means).Mewabe do you consider the main pathology to be some kind of evil men thing?

      “Could it be that there is ALSO a very serious problem with male identity, with what culture BELIEVES and defines as male?…such as aggression, dominant power, and more damaging perhaps than anything else, emotional suppression and constipation, or the chronic suppression of feeling and sensitivity (you know, men don’t cry and all that senseless crap)?”
      Absolutely agree. But this is not “let’s blame men” it’s to quote Monty Python’s holy Grail “Ah! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!” (Humanity’s collective psyche.)

      • mewabe

        You might enjoy reading a book called The Nature Of The Psyche by Jane Roberts.

        I know you were sarcastic but I don’t think that there is a “patriarchal conspiracy”. The patriarchy has ruled the world for centuries with the complicity and approval of women. It means that women have willingly given up a part of their power, and the outcome has been imbalance. The cause of this seems to be fear. All intense efforts at achieving unreasonable dominant power and control (the kinds that are oppressive) have fear for original. Love liberates and frees, while fear, when dictating long term behavior, imprisons (see the example of how governments are now taking away our liberties to “protect” us against the ghost of terrorism, in the name of fear).

        There is no “evil men thing”, there are cultural beliefs when it comes to gender roles. The most ridiculous lead to gender caricatures such as barbie and GI joe. Beyond ridiculous physical appearances, and more problematic, are the beliefs that define extremely different gender characteristics and that form, through conditioning, different mindset and responses, to the point when even seemingly rational people start thinking that men come from Mars and women from Venus and cannot communicate properly, and write books about it!

        How is all of this relating to violence? It all goes back to feeling (my favorite subject, and still the most ignored in the world, except perhaps by poets). People who cannot process their feelings correctly occasionally become disturbed, and can start acting out their pain or fears or rage, becoming abusive, cruel, violent.

        When boys, and later men, are not allowed to be naturally sensitive and feeling but must put on a show to look “tough” to get society’s approval, their learn to suppress their emotions and feelings, and essentially become time bombs.

        Then when society approves of ritualized violence and brutality because it has decided that such behaviors are gloriously masculine under certain conditions that profit society, outlets are created for such chronic insanity, as in wars, when the most barbaric actions are either overlooked (“stuff happens, this is war”) or rewarded.

        It would be a mistake to think that a cultural role actually reflects the nature of the psyche. A cultural role is a choice, not intrinsically male or female. Toughness, the suppression of feelings, a lack of sensitivity are no more masculine than courage is unfeminine.

        All feelings are meant to be expressed when they arise, by all genders. Until we learn and apply this, humanity will remain profoundly screwed up, and unable to understand and trust itself, for the more feelings are suppressed, the more they become a threat to the individual and to society.

        • Christopher Toft

          Mewabe, I have a tendency to feel a bit defensive on this topic, as I grew up in a family that was “Matriarchal” in essence, with a strong undercurrent of misandry, so please forgive me if I jumped on you:)

          “There is no “evil men thing”, there are cultural beliefs when it comes to gender roles. The most ridiculous lead to gender caricatures such as barbie and GI joe. Beyond ridiculous physical appearances, and more problematic, are the beliefs that define extremely different gender characteristics and that form, through conditioning, different mindsets and learnt responses, to the point when people start thinking that it is as though men came from Mars and women from Venus!”

          Indeed.

          “When boys, and later men, are not allowed to be naturally sensitive and feeling but must put on a show of looking “tough” to get society’s approval, they learn to suppress their true emotions and feelings, having been told that all feelings except anger and lust are “feminine”, and they essentially become time bombs.

          Really, think about what this does to a person’s mind.”

          Yes exactly.

          “It would be a mistake to think that a cultural role actually reflects the nature of the psyche. A cultural role is a choice, a facade, a put on, not intrinsically male or female. Toughness, the general suppression of all feelings but anger and lust, a lack of sensitivity are no more masculine than courage is unfeminine.

          We fool no one but ourselves

          All feelings are meant to be expressed when they arise, by all genders. Let boys cry, let girls express anger, whenever they need to! Until we learn and apply this, humanity will remain profoundly screwed up, and unable to understand and trust itself, for the more feelings are suppressed, the more they become a threat to the individual and to society.”
          We are obviously in agreement. As I said, I have a tendency to react with “Oh here we go again, women are wonderful and men are evil! What’s that got to do with the overall problem of fear and denial”. But you are correct to point it out, It certainly is a huge part of our human problems.

          • mewabe

            Thank you Christopher, and yes, some women can become extremely controlling and dominant as well…it is no more healthy when they do it than when men do it.
            The way I see it, it all comes from fear (it’s one thing to try to get a handle on one’s own life, but attempting to dominate and control others is in a totally different category, and I see it as a sickness).

          • Christopher Toft

            I remember back in 2000 watching with horror and sheer “rabbit in the headlights” fear as a woman pulled a knife on another woman and threatened to stab her. It seems to have increasingly become an issue for both sexes.

          • mewabe

            There is a gender identity crisis across the board, and it is good, because it causes the implosion of unrealistic beliefs. But some women think that, in order to prove themselves to be equal to men and to gain some form of respect (why they would feel compelled to prove their obvious equality is beyond me), they have to act tough, unfeeling, dominant, and at times even violent.

            That, in my view, is the ultimate screw up…men haven’t been allowed or encouraged by culture to feel and to be sensitive, so the way a woman will prove her worth is by acting as do men who haven’t been allowed to be feeling and sensitive? That’s messed up!

          • Christopher Toft

            Yeah that’s my thinking about the incident in 2000. It’s “gender identity chaos” manifesting as violence.

    • Kristen

      Happy Easter Mewabe.
      Just to provoke, no reply please!!!!!!!!!!

      • mewabe

        What’s Easter, are you celebrating the existence of chocolate bunnies?

        • Kristen

          Easter Monday nite – LOL. The Easter Bunny and I do not get along! If I go overseas and hide all is well. stayed home this year so yet another chocolate hell – son in hospital with a bad staph infection Fri AM til 3pm Sunday, picks up his car after $750 engine repairs them plays ‘boys being boys’ and writes it off in a headon with his mate ‘somehow’ that I don’t even want to know about at 4pm. Thank God for insurance….hopefully! Migrane from chocolate. Rained all weekend so nothing planned got done and we got absolutely pelted with mud at Easter speedway and demo derby on our family tradition!! And having to close on a Friday and everyone leaves town as it is the start of school holidays is obviously a huge loss for a cake shop! Thank God it’s over for another year.

          So no, I don’t celebrate chocolate bunnies, I celebrate when Easter is over.

  • Kristen

    Hi Kenneth,
    You do not have to answer this, I am merely curious about people. Are you in the mind set or knowledge that you are consciously a non human species currently on Earth? If so do you care to identify yourself in this way?

  • Kristen

    WOW, this is a crazy thread. Are we still on Earth??? I feel I have been teleported to some weird no mans land.

    A very simple thought – has it ever occurred to anyone that most people are actually happy with who and how they are and do not want to change, it is merely others that want them to change creating the illusion. A classic CwG train of thought I think. Perhaps just my perception?! IF people wanted to stop polluting they would, if they wanted to stop travelling and reduce their carbon footprint they would, if they wanted to help end the suffering of others they would, if they wanted to be nicer they would. Everyone is living as they WANT to, which differs greatly from how others want them to. This is not right, possibly not even wrong, merely the cold hard truth.

    I don’t think trying to convince people they WANT to change has been very successful to date, which is why I am pro law and consequences including person carbon footprint ‘rations’, the illegalisation of many ‘non foods’ as Mewabe would word it, banning all coal mining, anything that causes animal suffering, executing peodophiles and torturers, letting addicts kill themselves etc. I’m almost at the point where I think we need a full dictatorship communist world!!!

    • Christopher Toft

      Kristen, What is more helpful: To discuss with others what is in our best interests and try to come to an agreement or to force people to do what they believe is not in their best interests though the use of laws?

      • Kristen

        In an ideal world, yes. But my ideal world means people are like me and want similar things, including no crime, executions, evil abolished and very strict Laws in place to ensure our home can once again become an Eden where there is no evil and no suffering permitted. Other ideal world is completely different, a CwG world would make me suicidal, that is one of my worst nightmares and I can see how the world has changed in this direction in a negative way over the past ten years. Neales God states that “Children are sexual beings”, “there is no right and wrong” etc. It is very sad that some people have no internal knowledge of the differences between right and wrong that most do. I believe the definition of this is narcissism, evil, psychopaths etc. And one who believes children are sexual beings is surely a peodophile?????

        You could ask a million different people what they feel is in theirs and the best interests of others, and how they want the world to be and you will get a million different answers. The only common denominator will be each wants freedom, but based on their perception of freedom.

        This was my point. Most people are how they want to be, I do not think trying to retrain people will make a difference. I am not concerned at all about Laws telling people what is and is not in their best interests. Law is not for that purpose. Law is to TEACH people what is and isn’t in the best interests of all or the majority and punish those who go against these Laws for they are harming or endangering others. I am all for the legalisation of cannabis but could never vote for it as I am concerned for animals, children, road users and families of the few who will become addicts. The users are not my concern, their victims are. In a sane world where people know or are taught the differences between right and wrong via LAW and consequences, there would then no longer be a need for Law once people were compliant and grew a brain.

        If you want to drive 200km and hour – go for it, your life, your car, your choice. But Law says this is not permitted on roads as it endangers others so you must do it on private property. Law is not in place to act in Law breakers best interests nor tell people what they can and cannot do in their private homes, it is in place to protect everyone else from others.

        Sorry if I have worded the same thing in three different ways, I do not know you well enough to gauge your reading literacy and understanding skills, in here many only hear what they want to hear and kind of miss the point a lot. Which I do think is a form of brainwashing, possibly from birth and the American school system, but also from Neale. CwG states there are always other sides to the story, so when CwGers especially dismiss any other sides it screams brainwashing and cult to me!!

        Happy Easter – I would love a Law that would force someone to come up with a cure for Staph Bacteria rather than hospital IV antibiotics and golfball sized holes being cut out of a kid for the 6th time in a year!!! Lovely Easter Friday gift!!

        • Christopher Toft

          “In an ideal world, yes. But my ideal world means people are like me and
          want similar things, including no crime, executions, evil abolished and
          very strict Laws in place to ensure our home can once again become an
          Eden where there is no evil and no suffering permitted.”

          Fair enough. So who decides what evil is?

          Neale’s God states that “Children are sexual beings”, “there is no right
          and wrong” etc. It is very sad that some people have no internal
          knowledge of the differences between right and wrong that most do. I
          believe the definition of this is narcissism, evil, psychopaths etc. And
          one who believes children are sexual beings is surely a pedophile?????”

          Kirsten,when I was 9 or ten I recall vividly getting erections and strong sexual feelings. I would state honestly that I was a sexual being, an immature sexual being and certainly not physically and emotionally ready for adult sexual relationships, but nevertheless, a sexual being.

          “You could ask a million different people what they feel is in theirs and
          the best interests of others, and how they want the world to be and you
          will get a million different answers. The only common denominator will
          be each wants freedom, but based on their perception of freedom.”

          Yes. As I see it, the irony is that the reason you get a million different answers is precisely because we are confused and muddled by ten million different ideas about “good” and “evil”. How can we know what is kind if others insist on telling us, instead of letting us simply empathise and demonstrate kindness?

          “Law is to TEACH people what is
          and isn’t in the best interests of all or the majority and punish those
          who go against these Laws for they are harming or endangering others.”

          What is to stop the abuse of these laws?Can these “laws fit all contexts? Does execution really “teach” anyone anything except that violence can solve all our problems?

          “If you want to drive 200km and hour – go for it, your life, your car,
          your choice. But Law says this is not permitted on roads as it endangers
          others so you must do it on private property. Law is not in place to
          act in Law breakers best interests nor tell people what they can and
          cannot do in their private homes, it is in place to protect everyone
          else from others.”

          True. But there is a thing that is more effective than Law. It’s called consequences. If you drive at 200kph you obviously greatly increase your chances of killing or maiming yourself and others. Isn’t this “Law” enough?

          Thanks for your kind reply. Sorry my own is so late. Haven’t checked this page lately!

          • Kristen

            Hi Christopher,
            I have no problem at all with the truth. I understand what you are saying about being a boy at age 9 or 10, I had read this about boys a few times including in all the info the kids have bought home from school on ‘sex ed and changing bodies’, but as a mum of two boys (16 and 19) I choose not to even think about it. and I don’t think any boy would want their mum to either. My understanding is that these ‘boy things’ can start happening 3 years before puberty, so I would guess you were an early bloomer?? My family are all late bloomers (puberty not starting til 15 thank God), but a relative has told me he was in sexual relationships from the age of 12. Eek! From the female perspective I do not think female bodies are sexual at all until in physical relationships with guys. In spite of creepy movie makers trying to convince the world that we are all in our underwear having pillow fights at age 13!! I do understand what you are meanings, my problem with the CwG message of children being sexual beings is the harm this would cause if peodophiles read this, which no doubt thousands have, and then assumed it was acceptable in God’s view to sexually abuse children. Remember children are defined as age two and over. A sexual being is very different to a physical body responding in the way it is meant to in preparation for being an adult, without the freewill based or intended response of the victim of abuse. I understand this is a huge issue for many sexually abused boys, and creates much confusion. No sane God or anyone in a position of authority would say such a stupid comment. Imagine if your President announced in his official capacity that “the American government would like for formally announce that children are sexual beings”. Good cause for assassination, and imagine the trauma to victims of abuse this would cause. Of course the peodophiles would love it. See why I am so opposed to this stupid comment?? Especially since so many choose to believe Neales God is the Biblical God.

            I am very pro consequences, they are a part of Universal Law and Natural Law but prevention is better than cure which is where Legal Law comes into play. No, it is not acceptable for someone to drive at 200kmph, because of the suffering they can cause to others. Or maiming others as you put it. When most people have no conscience, or even if they do, how is guilt enough of a consequence when innocent others may be left grieving, a tetraplegic, with their life in tatters etc. My idiot (normal) son has just written off his car, two weeks after getting his license back (in NZ there are silly overly strict rules for under 21’s – no alcohol at all driving, no passengers for 18 months and you lose license for three months for any three minor offenses including going through orange lights! – teens are easy targets and money makers for police here who have nothing better to do than meet their financial quotas at generally $200 per offence). The consequences for him are that he has hopefully learned that yes dont be idiots on private land or you can have a head on with a mate and he has no car until insurance comes through. Consequences for me – I have no car until his insurance comes through as him using mine is better than taking him to work at 7am when I can just walk, I have to deal with a horrid ex daily ranting and raving, his fathers insurance now goes up 20% for everything, his next car will have to be insured under my name as he won’t be able to get insurance now, Its been hours of paperwork and stress etc……………Or would you call this consequences for bad parenting and me not raising a nerd as his father does???
            Natural consequences are not enough, I can only imagine what trouble boys especially would get into with no speed limits, no rules etc – they’d probably all be dead. But then yet again the consequences would be on the parents in the form of grief, funeral expenses, lost dreams etc.

            Karma defines “You will suffer for the suffering you have caused, scripture states eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth”, surely it is better to have Law in place first as a prevention method and consequences PRIOR to really bad things happening or people having to learn the really really hard way.

            Evil is defined Universally. If people are intuitive and on the Tree of Life to Immortality you can literally download these Laws. Wrong is also clearly defined. The committee who makes these decisions are The Source, God in His role as the Universal God of Law (separate from His religions), Creator, someone I cannot identify but I could call The Highest Of The Most High I guess, Christs from each realm and I think three representatives from each species. You asked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People have been ‘downloading’ these Laws forever and they are at the core of our own legal systems on Earth. This does not mean every Law here is recognised Universally – probably 50/50. Police and Military officials are the same as everyone else, Karma still applies when they are harassing people etc, as does the enforcement of non recognised Laws. The official definition of evil is “an individual that knowingly causes the suffering of others, whether intentionally, blatantly or discreetly and is not personally affected in a negative way upon realising this suffering has been caused”. An evil act is obviously a list of the things that evil people would do. The only exemption is working for Karma, Law, Consequences or sometimes in the role of a caregiver of those who cannot care for themselves (kids, animals, disabled people) where it is in the best interests of those in their care such as medical treatment, grounding or time out etc. The Source recognises Evil as an act that causes the tears of another since tears are the overflow of a soul that is beyond it’s maximum limits permitted. Basically if you intentionally make someone cry, it’s probably evil you are carrying out.

            Everyone is judged upon death or judgement day based on the official Laws, which most religions teach as the roles of the Christs is to spread Law on earth as Buddha, Y’shua and many others all did so to not believe in Law is silly and dangerous, all will still be judged.

            Probably not best to ask me questions, or say it’s rhetorical, or you will get an answer you probably don’t want!

          • Christopher Toft

            “I do understand what you are meanings, my problem with the CwG message of children being sexual beings is the harm this would cause if peodophiles read this, which no doubt thousands have, and then assumed it was acceptable in God’s view to sexually abuse children”

            I understand your point and yes, I think you’re probably right, paedophiles would read that and think it meant the sex with children is “okay”. Personally, I don’t imagine a high percentage of paedophiles reading CWG and lets face it they would probably watch sesame street and think it meant that it’s okay to rape children. Paedophiles are messed up, they see what they want to see! I imagine most (relatively!) sane people like myself would read CWG and interpret the “children are sexual beings” thing as I did.

            I take your point about consequences having negative effects on others, besides themselves. I have a fairly Buddhist outlook and I had an interesting and somewhat painful experience yesterday. I’ve been struggling with smoking for awhile and yesterday I froze up in a job interview. This was because I was saying to myself “I am strong and abundant” and at the same time my smoking implied helplessness & powerlessness. My mind couldn’t reconcile the conflicting ideas so that why I went into fear. After the interview the full impact of smoking hit me-I wasn’t just hurting my body, I was explicitly stating I was powerless every time I lit up. And then there’s the effect on others, I could normalise and encourage smoking in others, and the effect on the environment etc. I felt such strong and genuine remorse, I won’t be smoking again because I don’t want to be a source of destructiveness.. The point I’m trying to make is that every act creates positive and negative effects all around us, it doesn’t just affect us as individuals. Legal laws can be useful but karma should be the grounds that these laws are based around.

            “Evil is defined Universally. If people are intuitive and on the Tree of Life to Immortality you can literally download these Laws. Wrong is also clearly defined.”
            Fair enough:) Personally I have come to understand ethics as being less to do with laws of behaviour and more about practicing compassion and not acting on negative emotions and mind states. If an act feels angry, fearful, cruel, jealous or whatever don’t do it. If your actions are coming from kindness, love, creativity and abundance do them! I honestly think laws just confuse our natural kindness and empathy and replace them with fear.
            I like your humour and playfulness!

          • Kristen

            In agreeance with you there old chum. Fair enough – LOL when I read that, how British!!!, my English neighbour is driving me nuts deliberately at the moment saying fairy nuff to everything. Most Laws from above are ‘downloaded’ into us, and what should be natural behaviours, very few are dictatorial, more Laws of definition like the ones defining matters as evil etc.

            Re peodophiles – well if word got out Neales God wrote that comment (I know what he probably meant – just the dumbest thing every published in the history of this planet) then I guess CwG would have a whole new following, just as Catholicism did once they started orphanages and word got out they harboured secrets. And peodophiles!!!!

            You think sane people read CwG? (cashing in on you knowing I would be taking the piss or that may start a whole new war or thread).

            Good luck with the job hunting, and deepest sympathies on your serious first world problem – smoking!! Plant extra trees to offset the carbon footprint, one can only try!

          • Christopher Toft

            “You think sane people read CwG? (cashing in on you knowing I would be
            taking the piss or that may start a whole new war or thread).”

            I said relatively!

          • Kristen

            Good point. Sorry bout that!