We’ve been told that…
GOD SAYS WE MUST
BEG GOD’S FORGIVENESS

EDITOR’S NOTE: I am excited to be able to use this space on the Internet as a place in which we can join together to ignite a worldwide exploration of some of the most revolutionary theological ideas to come along in a long time.

The ideas I intend to use this space for in the immediate future are the ideas found in GOD’S MESSAGE TO THE WORLD: You’ve Got Me All Wrong.  I believe this new book (published last October by Rainbow Ridge Books) places before our species some of the most important “What if” questions that could be contemplated by contemporary society.

The questions are important because they invite us to ponder some of the most self-damaging ideas about God ever embraced by our species.  For example, the statement that…God’s forgiveness is required for us to get into heaven.

Having used the criterion described in the last installment here (namely, that God decides what is “right” and “wrong”) as a measure of whether an action or choice is right or wrong, but not wanting to admit that they have used it—and, worse yet, having no idea of what they are actually trying to do during their time upon the earth—many human beings are understandably worried about how God will judge them in light of what they are certain is a long list of transgressions.

Billions of humans find comfort, however, in the assurance of many religions that God will forgive even the worst offenses. A notable notion in the Jewish tradition is teshuva: the ability to repent and be forgiven by God. In Catholic doctrine, we are told about the sacrament of Confession. Other religions, as well, teach that God will forgive us.

Under certain conditions.

The trick is to know what the conditions are . . . and then, of course, to meet them.

Humans have turned to religion to tell them what those conditions are, yet what makes this tricky is that the conditions appear to shift from religion to religion. It has therefore become a matter of extreme importance and no little urgency to billions of people that they discover and belong to the right religion.

A mistake here could be monumentally hellish.

Now comes The Great What If . . .

What if God will never forgive us for anything? What if God considers the whole concept of forgiveness unnecessary?

Would it make a difference? Does it matter? In the overall scheme of things, would it have any significant impact in our planetary experience?

Yes. Of course it would. Forgiveness is one of the lynchpins of all faith traditions—and thus, of the moral code of most of human society. If forgiveness is out of place in human affairs (to say nothing of the affairs of God), then how can human beings ever expect to evolve beyond resentment and revenge?

Still, for all the emphasis placed by religion on forgiveness as a tool of healing and restoration, such evolutionary advancement has not been grandly evidenced. Indeed, in some respects our species seems to have devolved, not evolved. Resentment and revenge seem to mar the collective human experience today more than ever. Often, in fact, they dominate it.

Day after day, week after week, month after month the world’s headlines are filled with stories of war, revolt, violent government crackdowns, individual hate crimes, shocking mass murders, jealous rages, vengeful lawsuits, vitriolic politics, hurtful break-ups, heartless cruelty, rancorous outbursts, and bitter behavior.

It seems clear that simple forgiveness is not stemming the tide. Something else, something more powerful, is going to be needed to halt the growing use of violence as a tool in the resolution of grievances and the curbing of the apparently insatiable human appetite for retribution.

Yet how can we be expected to rein in our desire for retribution and revenge when we are surrounded by religions whose very creed declares: Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord . . . ? Are we to restrain ourselves in ways that God Himself does not?

Would humanity’s penchant for holding resentment and seeking revenge change if we were told that God never forgives us for anything, because God sees no need for forgiveness—and if it was explained why?

I think the answer to that question is obvious.

God has been telling us from the very beginning, and it is becoming more clear to us every day, that humanity’s Ancient Cultural Story about forgiveness is simply inaccurate.

It is okay now to remove this ancient teaching from our current story, and to stop telling this to ourselves and to our children.

As we explore what has been revealed about this, we begin to see several previous elements of the total narrative offered on these pages creating a logic line that helps us to understand why God would send humanity the five-word message on the cover of this book: “You’ve got me all wrong.”

We are invited now to notice that while forgiveness can be a wonderful tool during the time that one is residing at normally experienced human levels of consciousness, it can actually be an obstacle to one’s spiritual development.

As soon as one wishes to rise above the most commonly experienced human levels of consciousness to a place of higher consciousness or grander awareness, the idea of “forgiveness” as a tool of growth and healing falls away almost at once. “Understanding” becomes the most effective and powerful tool.

God has told us: Understanding replaces forgiveness in the mind of the Master.

Our soul knows—and it has reminded us here—that we are each an Aspect and an Individuation of Divinity. Because this is true, our soul cannot be, and has never been, hurt, damaged, or injured in any way. So, we never have to forgive anyone for anything, as each experience in our life has done nothing but move us forward on our soul’s evolutionary journey. Thus, every experience is a cause for gratitude and celebration.

And there is another reason that forgiveness is unnecessary.

Since we are all collaborators in the producing of our outward experience, none of us can be a victim, in the spiritual sense, in the story we are collectively co-creating. It may seem, in the human sense, that we are, but as our mind embraces the wisdom of our soul, we realize that we are no more the victim of our particular crucifixion than Christ was of his.

In the moment that we accept that we are, each of us, individuated expressions of The Divine, we realize as well that nothing can happen to us, and that everything must be happening through us.

We see that the whole of our experience on the earth is being co-created by the lot of us, in a collaborative process that serves the agenda of the Whole through the expression and the experience of its individuated parts.

We understand fully, as did Christ, why anything and everything has happened in our lives, out of our total comprehension of Who We Are, where we are, and why we are here on the earth, experiencing the realm of physicality.

We suddenly know the reason that others have entered our lives in particular ways—ways that we formerly might never have forgiven—because now we are no longer “looking through a glass darkly,” but observing with the eyes of the soul.

We know, at last, the soul’s logic and the heavenly purpose in co-creating all that has occurred, is occurring, and ever will be occurring in our lives.

To make this clear: our lifetime will provide us with the experiences, events, people, situations, and circumstances ideally and collaboratively created for us by us as pathways to self-realization.

In the moment that the mind embraces the soul’s knowing, we will see with startling, stunning clarity that all that has happened—every.single.thing.—has happened not always with our conscious collaborative agreement, but always at our mutual spiritual behest, in order that we might collectively create and encounter conditions allowing us to announce and declare, express and fulfill, experience and become Who We Really Are.

It is in these moments that God is “made flesh, and dwells among us.”

There is even a third reason that forgiveness is out of place in the experience of those who understand—a reason to which we alluded earlier.

I asked before and I ask again: When that sweet little one knocks over the milk reaching in eagerness for the chocolate cake, or when that older brother tries to “cheat” his younger sibling out of an equal share of the cake, do we subject them to endless punishment? Of course not. We understand that children are just exactly that—children, incapable of fully comprehending their actions (or, often, even controlling them).

Once again, so that you will not forget: This is how God understands our minds, and it is how we are all invited to understand each other. Not just the children among us, but all of God’s children, whatever their age.

Many people continue to insist that God is simply not forgiving of certain transgressions, and it is based on this intractability that we justify our own. Yet Is God not at least as compassionate and understanding with us as we are of our children? And does an eternal God, existing across billions and billions of years, not understand that human beings, with a history that covers not half a breath in the life of the cosmos, truly are children of the universe?

Surely, even if there is a need for divine justice in Heaven (as many religions insist), God would take this into account as God calls us to account, no? Even human courts of law declare a person “innocent” by reason of diminished capacity. Is this too high a standard for our God?

So now we ask, with regard to forgiveness: Could it really be possible that we’ve simply gotten God all wrong?

What if it is true that there is nothing in the first instance that our species is “supposed” to do or not do, no matter what its “age” in the universe? What if it is true that God is an all powerful being—in fact, the Source of all power—who needs and requires nothing from human beings?

What if the last thing God needs is to seek some sort of retribution or impose some sort of punishment?

What if God desires only for us to be totally happy, fully expressed, and abundantly joyful in the experience of life?

And what if God understands that, given our immaturity as a species, we are going to do things along the way that we are going to label mistakes—some of them, egregious mistakes?

Or, to put it simply: Could it be that God is at least as kind and caring, compassionate and loving, generous and understanding as our own grandparents?

Perhaps it would serve us all to hold this as our truth: Understanding replaces forgiveness in the mind of the master.

The new spiritual outlook of our awakening species invites us to ask: What if we were not children of a Lesser God, but, in fact, children of the Most Gracious, Wonderful, Wise, Generous, and Unconditionally Loving God of our imagining?

This is the truth of it. This is the Ultimate Reality. Everything else is a story we have made up. God’s forgiveness is not necessary, because God understands all of us—and all of our behaviors—perfectly. And God sees each of us and each of our behaviors as manifestations and demonstrations of life’s evolutionary process.

There is nothing to forgive when a full understanding replaces a limited awareness of the process of evolution itself, and when that understanding arises from the deep comprehension that the unity of all life evolving in every form is the ultimate expression of divinity.

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NEALE RESPONDS TO KRISTEN COMMENTS…

NOTE: Please forgive me for placing this here, but the software here apparently will not allow me to post a response that i just wrote to “Kristen” underneath her Comment below. So I am putting my response to Kristen here, and invite anyone reading this to find her Comment below, first, then read this reply…

Dear Kristen…I have a bit more time now, so would like to “dialogue” with you here on the messages you have kindly taken the time to send to me. I will publish here, again, your recent comment to me, with replies from me along the way, so that we can have a kind of on-screen “conversation.”

Here we go! …

KRISTEN: Thank you for replying Neale, and for understanding I am not being vindictive.

NEALE: You are very welcome. No one who honestly and sincerely expresses their point of view here, without rancor, will be, or has ever been, considered by me to be vindictive.

KRISTEN: I am grateful to you, and for you, that you choose to point these matters out, primarily that YOU cannot confirm you channel the one we all identify as God.

NEALE: That is a kind thing to say, and I would like to elaborate a bit on that point, Kristen. Not only have I made it very clear that I did and do not “channel” God, I have been equally clear that every human being on the face of the earth has a “direct line” to God. That is, all of us are having a conversation with God every day of our lives. We are simply calling it something else. God is talking to all of us, in a hundred different ways across a thousand moments during all the years of our life. So, yes, I can confirm unequivocally that I do not “channel” the one we all identify as God. What I do is called “inspired writing.” It is the same process by which Mozart was inspired to create his music, Michelangelo was inspired to produce his art, Shakespeare was inspired to write his extraordinarily insightful plays, and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Was inspired to say to the world “I have a dream today,” igniting a shift in consciousness among millions of people. No, I am not a “channel” for God.

KRISTEN: I saw you say this on Oprah many years ago, so I have always known that, as you did with Matt (Lauer on the Today Show), but feel your followers need a reminder of this, especially your new ‘groupies’.

NEALE: Thank you for the suggestion, Kristen, and rest assured that I will continue to let people know that I am not in any way claiming to be a person who “channels” the one that we call God, but rather, that I feel inspired by God to share what I have shared with the world.

KRISTEN: Look at the titles of your books, and the clear implications in here that you ARE speaking with the one we identify as God, and the chosen God of our countries, our Governments and National Anthems…oops you are American… yours is all about ego! Couldn’t resist, sorry, you are an odd bunch!

NEALE: Ha! I enjoy your humor, Kristen! But on a serious note, let me say this: I do believe that I am––to use your words ––“speaking with the one we identify as God.” There is not a single doubt or question in my mind that I am speaking with God. I do this in many ways. Through prayer. Through meditation. Through quiet contemplation. All of us on this planet are speaking
with God everyday of our lives. We are simply calling it something else. This is because we have been culturalizd away from daring to claim that we are having a direct conversation with God. People who say they have been talking to God are called blasphemers, apostates, heretics, and worse. They have been told that they are delusional. They have been told that they are crazy. Yet there is nothing delusional or crazy about God’s greatest promised to humanity: “I am with you always, even unto the end of time.” Nor is there anything delusional or crazy about people who say they have been inspired by God to think, say, or do a particular thing. This is exactly what I have claimed has occurred in my life. Nothing more, and nothing less.

KRISTEN: A brief explanation at the top of this site would be great to clarify this, and then I wouldn’t get sent, via intuition, in here to discuss this every time you start a thread that is very Anti God as Judge, or attempts to discredit Him.

NEALE: Dear Kristen… I do not feel that I am “Anti God” in any sense of the words. In fact, quite to the contrary. I am FOR God! I am God’s biggest booster. I am God’s biggest fan. I said that I do not believe that God has a reason to, or will ever, judge us for anything. God is the supreme being, the Creator and the Source of all power in the universe. God cannot be hurt, damaged, injured, angered, frustrated, or affected negatively in any way whatsoever. Is for this reason that God has never judged, condemned, or punished anyone. And She never will. He simply bestows upon us His unconditional love. And She invites us to use the power that He has given us to collaboratively create the reality of our species.

KRISTEN: I literally feel a grab on my arm and see the words Neale in the air! And it’s damn annoying,but my job, I work for God. Please listen to what I have said and take it seriously, I am on the side of all people, and like you, do wish they would stop self-harming and stepping on landmines they have made for themselves.

NEALE: I am listening, Kristen, and I take seriously everything that anyone shares with me when they are coming from such a place of pure conviction and honest belief. I did not take you lightly, nor do I “write you off.” Rather, I am grateful for every contribution you make here, as it helps all of us to open our minds and engage in a dialogue that is more than a one sided exposition.

KRISTEN: As you are probably aware, I am an Israelite (as you are)…

NEALE: I am not sure what this means, Kristen.

KRISTEN: …and a Kabbalist. That is, I study and work with Law, and have been on the Tree ofLife to immortality journey, and I have done my Christ Consciousness papers in Universal Law. These papers are over 500 pages, and if you want to read it, I am happy to send you a copy based on trust (its the Rosetta Stone…my retirement fund…I know what it is worth, especially to the Freemasons).

NEALE: Thank you for this kind offer. I am going to respectfully decline your invitation to read it, as I wish to remain purely within my own experience as an author who puts writings into the world. I would never want to inadvertently use another person’s writings or turns of phrase in anything I am producing. But I hope that you will one day make these writings available to the world, as I believe that humanity benefits enormously from considering all serious discussion and points of view about God and Life, so that each of us may come to our own conclusions and awareness about Who We Are, Why We Are Here, and Who and What this Thing Called ‘God” is!

KRISTEN: This is where I function from, The Void, the Place of Law, and a position of Chaos overseen by The Source and all the Higher Powers. A brief glimpse at a Tree of Life website, or Wiki will explain this chaos a bit. Its called the Void, and it is sure extra chaotic at the moment.

NEALE: Thanks. I’ll take a look over there and see what I can find out.

KRISTEN: I think, but do not believe, we are very close to a judgment day, hence my warnings.

NEALE: This sentence seems to send two messages, so I am not clear what you are wishing to communicate here. You “think” something, but you do not “believe” it? In my own belief system, there is no such thing as Judgment Day. God has no reason to judge us for anything. As I described above, God cannot be hurt or damaged or frustrated or upset in any way. And in God’s eyes, we are like children. We would not punish our children with everlasting damnation, and neither will God do this to her children. He is much more kind, much more loving, and much more understanding than that.

KRISTEN: Many, including you, are breaching many Universal Laws, but the main ones I am concerned about for you are the ones that determine no one is to get between any true God and their followers…

NEALE: I have always made it clear been I do not wish to “get between” any person and the God in which they believe. In fact, conversations with God makes this very clear when it says: “Ours is not a better way, ours is merely another way.” I encourage people to simply compare what they have been told by others with what they feel deep inside of their heart. If the books I have written help them to do that, I am happy––whether they believe what I have written or not.

KRISTEN: …deceiving people into thinking there are are no consequences imposed on us by the Higher Powers, including God and a judge…

NEALE: I think the difference between you and me, Kristen, is that you think people can be deceived, and I have more faith in the intelligence of the people who are reading my books. I could not “deceive” them if I wanted to. They are way too smart for that. I believe they are capable of reading what I have written, considering what I have offered, and coming to their own conclusions about the truth that resides deep within them concerning God and concerning life. I certainly cannot restrain myself from sharing my own thoughts about these things for fear that I may “deceive” someone else. Even as you share what is true for you, openly and passionately, without fear that you may “deceive” someone else, so do I.

KRISTEN: …lying about God (any God), and misleading children into believing non-truths.

NEALE: Sharing a thought or an opinion about God that is different from the views of others is not the same as “lying” about God. As for “misleading children,” I would hope that all parents would exercise their own personal judgment about what they place before their children. If they belief in my material is “misleading,” they should not allow their children to have access to it. No author in the world could publish a book ever, anywhere, if they had to worry about children being misled by what they have written.

KRISTEN: God is a punishing God. It is unfair and deceptive to teach people otherwise, this can lead them to do things they otherwise wouldn’t, even when they know in their heart it is wrong (wrong is also defined Universally, as is evil).

NEALE: I know that you sincerely believe that God is a punishing God, so I see that we do not share the same understanding about our Deity. However, it is not “unfair” and “deceptive” to talk with people about a different kind of God. And my experience has been that people who do not believe in a punishing God do not do things that they would otherwise refrain from doing. My experience is quite to the contrary. People who do not believe in a punishing God tend to be kinder, gentler, less judgmental, more tolerant, and more unconditionally loving them people who hold rigid beliefs about a God who punishes us if we simply think––much less share with others––nontraditional ideas about the Higher Power of this universe. The universe is not a Dictatorship, nor is it a game of Domination.

KRISTEN: This is Satan’s main trick, done via the Mass Mind of Humanity, by normalizing ‘wrongs.’ Don’t play his stupid pathetic games in his 7,000 year tantrum.

NEALE: I would feel very served by you, Kristen, if you would explain to me who this being called Satan is. Is it a male? Is it a female? Is it a strange creature without gender? What gave it birth? From what source did this creature emerge? Where did the number 7,000 come from? Was that just “made up,” or is it a factual calculation? In your understanding, what is Satan trying to do? In your understanding, does God allow Satan to do whatever Satan wants? If so, why would God allow such a thing? I think all of our readers here would be wonderfully served if you would offer your response to these questions.

KRISTEN: By eating humble pie, what I would like to see is “I, Neale, acknowledge that I have been wrong, and that what I and my so called God state or believe in may well be wrong and incorrect information. It is not my place, nor anyone’s, to tear someone’s religion apart and attempt to question everything, and turn people away from their God, nor show such huge disrespect to God and the Higher Powers!”.

NEALE: Well, I cannot issue such a statement, but I can come close to it. How about this…? “I, Neale, acknowledge––as I have been doing for 20 years––I could be wrong about all that I have written regarding God. It could very well be incorrect information, and I will allow each person who encounters my writing to judge for themselves whether it resonates with their innermost truth. It is not my place, nor anyone’s, to tear someone’s religion apart, but I will never feel it is wrong to question everything, and I will never stop doing so. And I will never stop encouraging others to do so. It is never my hope, my intention, or my desire to turn anyone away from their God, but rather, to bring them closer to their God through the deep exploration of Humanity’s current understandings about our Deity. I am clear that even if a person totally and completely disagrees with what I have said about God, even that will have served the purpose of bringing them closer to God. There is no greater service that my writing could perform. The purpose of my writing is never to show disrespect to God, but just the opposite. And—blasphemy of blasphemies—I think that God understands this perfectly well.”

I note with interest, Kristen, that you keep referring to “God and the Higher Powers” as if they were not the same thing. Can you explain this to us?

KRISTEN: But that aside, anyone who has a basic understanding of psychology will be able to tell you that humble or even normal people, do not ‘give talks’ nor even consider the concept that people would want to pay to see them or hear them speak…

NEALE: I find this to be an interesting observation, Kristen, as even Jesus thought that it was quite okay to deliver his Sermon on the Mount, and to speak to people in groups large and small throughout his entire lifetime. And, as far as people paying to hear someone speak, the wonderful Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh speaks at workshops and events all over the world where the payment of an admission fee is required. So do many other teachers and messengers, theology professors, and others. You seem to think that if someone pays to hear another offer a talk, that this somehow invalidates the speaker and their message. I join 90% of the people in the world in disagreeing with this assessment.

KRISTEN: …and that the lengthening of a name to include a middle name or initial is an attempt to ‘make themself bigger’ much like driving a bigger car than others, having a bigger house or even going to the gym to bulk up to be bigger…

NEALE: In that case, the Rev. Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., the famous Catholic nun Francesca Xavier Cabrini, the late Gordon Bitner Hinckley (president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Mary Baker Eddy (founder of Christian Science), Bishop Rowan Douglas Williams (of the Anglican Church), Sathya Sai Baba, Chimoy Kumar Ghose, and many, many other spiritual teachers, messengers, and writers were likewise attempting to “make themselves bigger” by using a middle name. I don’t believe that for a minute, and it feels to me that your indictment is simplistic in the extreme.

KRISTEN: …actively seeking followers, students or groupies is self-serving and ego based, and communicating with them is a desire to retain them whilst using an exchange of money, selective information and treating them as special is a form of needing to keep your power position above the general population.

NEALE: I don’t know about groupies, but I do know that every organization from the Catholic Church to the National Organization for Women (NOW) and hundreds in between seek followers and students. So here again, Kristen, we have a massive oversimplification that seeks to tar and feather a person for simply sharing with others more than one at a time. But I have not actively sought what you call “followers”––in fact, I have discouraged anyone from allowing themselves to fall into that category. I have readers around the world, but I do not desire to have any “followers.” I happily acknowledge that many people around the world have self-identified as students of the CWG material, and I see nothing wrong with that. In fact, I encourage it. Any viewpoint that has intrigued millions of people across the globe should be studied carefully, it seems to me. It is important to know what people are talking about, and what is capturing their attention. And when thousands of people write letters to me and send me e-mails asking me to help them bettere understand the Conversations with God material, I do not take the position that I cannot respond to their requests for fear of being called “ego-based.” I want to gently suggest that your use of name-calling and labeling does not befit you.

KRISTEN: …as is creating a situation of co-dependency, and that anyone paying a professional to take their own photo is vain or ego based.

NEALE: there you go with name-calling and labeling again. There’s nothing at all unusual in publishers asking their authors for a professionally taken photograph to use on book jackets and in their media materials. The Pope, for Heaven sake, has had his picture taken by a professional photographer.

KRISTEN: I understanding many things are compensation for insecurities or people’s past where they have felt inadequate in a way they never want to again, BUT I’m sorry Neale, I would not put the word humble by your name.

NEALE: And I would never ask you to.

KRISTEN: I’ve studied psychology and reading people for many years. Ha-ha…nice try though! When I see you flying coach, without taggers on, or doing talks and appearances and being Neale the person rather than Neale Donald Walsch, I might believe you. Humble is normal.

NEALE: As it happens, I fly by myself to most of my speaking engagements. Once in a while my wonderful wife accompanies me, but if she’s not with me, I fly alone. There are no “taggers on,” as anyone who has ever met me on an airplane would tell you. You are correct in assuming that I do not fly coach on flights of more than two hours. Those who sponsor my appearances around the world are kind enough to offer me the comfort of Business Class seats on longer flights, and I am grateful to except their generosity and the comfort that it brings me at age 72, when I take speaking tours that have me on airplanes every third day for anywhere from 3 to 6 weeks running. I don’t feel I need to apologize for that and I am sorry that you feel that it is somehow inappropriate.

KRISTEN: I am really concerned for you,. You seem to have no idea of how hugely wrong your books and teachings are, like never seen before, and that the consequences are appropriately huge.

NEALE: It was George Bernard Shaw who offered the following observation: “All great truth begins as blasphemy.” I understand that you believe that my books are hugely wrong. It is also possible that they are not. I am willing to have them stand the test of time. And I see no injury in placing before the public books that simply question our prior assumptions about God, about life, about the purpose of our existence, and about each other. In fact, I think that such questioning is healthy, and is the sign of a species that is growing and expanding in it consciousness.

KRISTEN: It isn’t as simple as questioning things, Neale. Scripture teaches us to do exactly that. It is that you are publishing lies and destructive information, clearly implying it is from God, when it is all prophecised about as the one Christians call Satan/He of Lawlessness impersonating God, going blatantly against everything God states.

NEALE: I think what you mean to say is that my writing is going blatently against everything that someone ELSE says that God states. I find it intriguing to notice that everything we imagine that “God states” has been placed into the human experience by other human beings. What it is that makes the accuracy of those human beings go without question makes for an interesting discussion.

KRISTEN: I do just wish for you, that you would just call it quits, or I question if you are under duress to keep going. Consequences are far worse than any threats under duress could ever be.

NEALE: I am not under duress of any kind, Kristen, but I thank you for your concern. It would be instructive for me to know what these “consequences” that you continue to refer to might be. Would you be generous enough to enlighten me on this?

KRISTEN: The answer to your question regarding scriptures is much more complex. For me personally, I literally went through a few different ‘Bibles’, and wrote lists of yes that is God, no that is not God, or unsure. I was only able to do this last year, after many years studying, experience with God and knowing God… but all the Scriptures I quoted all indicate the same thing, and that is, many things in all the different books are not of God, but most are.

NEALE: interestingly, I have always said the same thing. In book after book, in speech after speech, I have made the statement that much of what our religions teach us, that much of what we find in humanity’s Holy Scriptures, is wonderfully beneficial, and no doubt has been inspired directly by God. It would be a mistake to assume that these Scriptures contain all there is to know about our Deity. The mistake that many human beings make is assuming that we now have all the answers about God and about life. This is like a child imagining that because he knows about addition and subtraction, he knows all there is to know about mathematics. Such an assumption would be shortsighted at least, and arrogant at worst. All I have done with my writing is to invite human beings to ask two simple questions: Is it possible that there is something we don’t fully understand about God and about Life, the understanding of which would change everything? Is it possible that there is something we do now know about ourselves and about who we are, the understanding of which would alter our lives forever for the better?

KRISTEN: In these quotes God is telling us that there are many untruths in Scriptures about Him, so to read and believe carefully. Examples are that I know God does not help those who help themselves as scripture states, but He does help those who serve Him like a normal employer, I know does pay staff their wages the day they work as in my 2nd job when I work for God I earn an extra $100 a day (but only like today when I work for Him…thanks Neale). I know God regrets making humans.

NEALE: Whoa. Hold it. I don’t know where you got that idea, but I believe that it is now you who are profoundly mistaken. God does not “regret” anything. God is incapable of making a “mistake.” Your suggestion that God regrets anything that God created infers that we are, indeed, “children of a lesser God.” I am sorry that you feel this way, and I would be fascinated to know where you got such an idea. Would you care to tell us?

KRISTEN: I know Abraham became the father of many nations, I know God still executes murderers, I know God HATES cross dressers, including females who dress butch…

NEALE: I must say that I am finding your views about God almost as interesting as some people find mine. I think the only thing I wonder is what makes you think that your ideas––some of which I find to be completely outlandish–––are any more accurate than my own.

KRISTEN…I know God executes sodomers, but is ok with gay in general, I know many curses and blessings in the OT are in place…

NEALE: I knew that if we talked long enough we would find at least one place where you at I agree about God. Conversations with God makes it clear that God is, as you put it, “okay with gay.” But what, pray tell, is “the OT”?

KRISTEN: I know God didn’t say every human thought is evil, nor husbands rule over their wives, nor that Rebekah had a hairy redhead baby, nor that He would have said to Moses “I have made you like God, to Pharoah,” as that goes against the Tree of Knowledge information in Genesis and lots of prophecies have not come true, including most of Yeshua’s.

I do think people will have to spend a lot of time under God, with no priests or churches involved in order to do this, but these papers on God are Tree of Life requirements and assignments when you are at that level. Again, Kabbalah.

Must trot…cats are hungry, sorry about the typos!

Take care,

K

Xx

NEALE: Thank you, Kristen, for your willingness to share your views and your understandings here. I observe that each of us–– all human beings––have our own thoughts, our own understandings, our own ideas, and our own beliefs about God. Conversations with God invites us to take no one’s word for
anything, but to go within and seek to find in the deepest part of us the truth that resonates at the heart of our being. We are invited to be our own authority in these matters––and I think that is very good advice, indeed.

I’ve enjoyed the dialogue, and hope you have too. Every good wish………Yours humbly, Neale.

 

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  • Kristen

    Hi Neale,
    We are children of the God you describe, however, as much as you do not want to believe it, He is also the Universal God of Law, Judge of all on Earth at any one time, the trainer and overseer of all Christs (whos role is to bring and enforce Law), and the one who determines if individuals are righteous enough to be immortal, rather than ending up in the Afterlife constantly reincarnated….which is a realm of the dead, and those not deemed righteous.
    We both know you channell the one identified as Satan, impersonating God, but I do wish you could get past the real God in His religious role, and see His other roles as well. No-one in existance has the authority, nor means, to override the consequential aspects of Karma, and it is one of Gods roles to ensure this does not happen. His job is to judge, without judgements and people overseeing this, we are all screwed. Imagine Earth without prisons, court systems, police and judges…that is a world without a punishing God and all those millions who work for Him. Forgiveness for some things is a blessing, but if you read scripture it is only for religious misdemeanours, everything else is punishable, and most of the punishable crimes are Universal for all realms. God was teaching Law, not making it up, the same as all Christs, Yshua, Buddha, Hindu Gods etc, it’s their job and role.
    One thing that is completely unforgiveable Neale, is to tell and spread lies about God. Your books are the epitome of this! Scripture is full of it as well, BUT with many warnings like if anyone says the are God or Yshua that is a sign they are not, that He of Lawlessness will exhault him-self over everything that is Gods, that prophecies that do not come true are not from God, if something that is said goes against what God has already said then it is not the truth, not to put words into God mouth, not to listen to false teachers of Law….the list goes on!
    What you are doing is incredibly dangerous Neale and followers, and it is a breach of Universal Law to deceive and mislead others. Get a life………surely this game isnt fun anymore! Your time is short Neale, to seek forgiveness, it may be too late as things ‘upstairs’ are very odd and in a chaotic state of rapid change. Informed choice, and a warning. I actually dont know if you and CwGers, especially those teaching children lies, actually have any idea what awaits you, and its not just God….you are breaching so many Universal Laws, especially those of respect, recognising higher dieties etc that its all actually incomprehensible what trouble you are all in. Try humble pie for a starter.
    Take care,
    Xx

    • NealeDonaldWalsch

      Thank you, Kristen, for your sincere and passionate telling
      of your truth about God and about my writings. You have suggested that I try a
      little “humble pie,” and all I can say to that is that I have tried very hard to be humble in everything that I have written and said about God. I’m going to take your advice and try even harder.

      I have hoped to never be arrogant or presumptuous as a result of the experience I have had, which I sincerely believe to be spiritually inspired. At the end of every talk I give any place in the world I always say, “I could be wrong about all of this.” All I have ever invited people to do is to read what I have had to offer and make their own decisions about it. I have said the exact same thing in the Conversations with God books themselves.

      One of those books actually says, “Do not believe a word that you find here.” My readers have been told to simply consider CWG to be some new ideas about God and about life. I have merely asked the question: “Is it possible that there is something we do not fully understand about God and about life, the understanding of which would change everything?” Then, I have offered
      some of the answers to that question that have come to me.

      Throughout the CWG writing I have invited my readers to go deep within to see if anything that I have had to say resonates with them. If anything I have offered violates their own innermost truth, I have told them to throw the books away immediately.

      Many years ago when I appeared on NBC’s Today Show I was asked by the host, Matt Lauer, if I ever had any doubts about what I claim to have been my experience, or about what I was putting into the world. I replied: “Yes. The day that I have no doubts is the day that I become dangerous. And, Matt, I have no intention of becoming dangerous.”

      I know that you say, Kristen, that what I am putting into the world IS “dangerous,” but all I have really wanted to do was to place before mankind the idea of a patient, caring, compassionate, forgiving, and unconditionally loving God. I believe that God would punish no one for anything, for the simple reason that God cannot be hurt or damaged in any way, has no reason to condemn anyone to everlasting damnation — and surely not for something as innocent as simply misunderstanding the largest mysteries of the universe.

      I am very sorry that you believe that the placing of the idea of an unconditionally loving God before the human race is a horrible violation of Universal Laws. I am
      equally sorry that you believe that “things ‘upstairs’ are very odd and in a chaotic state of rapid change” right now. I do not know exactly what you mean by the term “upstairs,” but I assume you’re referring to the Kingdom of God. If I am correct, I feel this is a very strange thing to say, because I cannot believe that God’s kingdom is ever in a “chaotic state.” I could, of course, be wrong about this. All I know is what I feel in my heart.

      Thank you for writing to me in such a sincere and wanting-to-be-helpful way. I hope that you will continue to seek to be helpful to me by assisting me in understanding exactly what Universal Laws I am now breaching by simply placing before humanity some alternative ideas about our beloved Deity.

      I cannot believe in a God who would punish me with everlasting damnation merely because I have dared to question what I have been told, and because I have invited a civil rights movement for the soul, freeing humanity at last from the oppression of its beliefs in a violent, angry, and vindictive God.

      You have indicated in your note that we should never place into the world anything that “goes against what God has already said.” Now the serious question that any serious student of theology must ask is this: “Who told us what God has said? What is the original source of this information?”

      If the answer is, Holy Scripture, then one must ask: “Who were the writers of these Scriptures? How do we know that they got everything exactly right? Are they not to be questioned? And which Scripture, exactly, are we to accept as infallible? Would it be the Qu’ran? The Bhagavad-gita? The Book of Mormon? The Old Testament? The New Testament? The Rig Veda? The Brahmanas? The Upanishads? The Mahabharta and the Ramayana? The Puranas? The Tao-te Ching? The Buddha-Dharma? The Dhammapada? The Pali Canon?

      Kristen, I ask these questions humbly and sincerely. Would you help us all by answering them to the best of your ability? Thank you so very much.

      Lovingly, Neale.

      • Kristen

        Thank you for replying Neale, and for understanding I am not being vindictive. I am grateful to you, and for you, that you choose to point these matters out, primarily that YOU cannot confirm you channel the one we all identify as God. I saw you say this on Oprah many years ago so I have always known that, as you did with Matt, but feel your followers need a reminder of this, especially your new ‘groupies’…look at the titles of your books, and the clear implications in here that you ARE speaking with the one we identify as God, and the chosen God of our countries, our Governments and National Anthems…oops you are American…yours is all about ego! Couldn’t resist, sorry, you are an odd bunch!
        A brief explaination at the top of this site would be great to clarify this, and then I wouldn’t get sent, via intuition, in here to discuss this everytime you start a thread that is very Anti God as Judge, or attempts to discredit Him. I literally feel a grab on my arm and see the words Neale in the air! And its damn annoying, but my job, I work for God.
        Please listen to what I have said and take it seriously, I am on the side of all people, and like you, do wish they would stop self harming and stepping on landmines they have made for themselves.
        As you are probably aware, I am an Israelite (as you are), and a Kabbalist..,that is, I study and work with Law, and have been on the Tree of Life to immortality journey, and I have done my Christ Consciousness papers in Universal Law. These papers are over 500 pages, and if you want to read it, I am happy to send you a copy based on trust (its the Rosetta Stone…my retirement fund…I know what is is worth especially to the Freemasons). This is where I function from, The Void, the Place of Law, and a position of Chaos overseen by The Source and all the Higher Powers. A brief glimpse at a Tree of Life website, or Wiki will explain this chaos a bit. Its called the Void, and it is sure extra chaotic at the moment. I think, but do not believe, we are very close to a judgement day, hence my warnings.
        Many, including you, are breaching many Universal Laws, but the main ones I am concerned about for you are the ones that determine no one is to get between any true God and their followers, deceiving people into thinking there are are no consequences imposed on us by the Higher Powers including God and a judge, lying about God (any God), and misleading children into believing non truths. God is a punishing God, it is unfair and deceptive to teach people otherwise, this can lead them to do things they otherwise wouldn’t, even when they know in their heart is is wrong (wrong is also defined Universally, as is evil). This is Satans main trick, done via the Mass Mind of Humanity by normalising ‘wrongs’, don’t play his stupid pathetic games in his 7000 year tantrum.

        By eating humble pie, what I would like to see is “I, Neale, acknowledge that I have been wrong, and that what I and my so called God state or believe in may well be wrong and incorrect information, it is not my place, nor anyones, to tear someones religion apart and attempt to question everything, and turn people away from their God, nor show such huge disrespect to God and the Higher Powers!”. I am really concerned for you, you seem to have no idea of how hugely wrong your books and teachings are, like never seen before, and that the consequences are appropriately huge. It isnt as simple as questioning things Neale, scripture teaches us to do exactly that, it is that you are publishing lies and destructive information, clearly implying it is from God, when it is all prophecised about as the one Christians call Satan/He of Lawlessness impersonating God, going blatantly against everything God states. I do just wish for you, that you would just call it quits, or I question if you are under duress to keep going. Consequences are far worse than any threats under duress could ever be.
        The answer to your question regarding scriptures is much more complex. For me personally, I literally went tnrough a few different ‘Bibles’, and wrote lists of yes that is God, no that is not God, or unsure. I was only able to do this last year, after many years studying, experience with God and knowing God…but all the Scriptures I quoted all indicate the same thing, and that is, many things in all the different books are not of God, but most are. In these quotes God is telling us that there are many untruths in Scriptures about Him so to read and believe carefully. Examples are that I know God does not help those who help themselves as scripture states but He does help those who serve Him like a normal employer, I know does pay staff their wages the day they work as in my 2nd job when I work for God I earn an extra $100 a day (but only like today when I work for Him..,thanks Neale), I know God regrets making humans, I know Abraham became the father of many nations, I know God still executes murderers, I know God HATES cross dressers including females who dress butch, I jnow God executes sodomers but is ok with gay in general, I know many curses and blessings in the OT are in place, I know God didnt say every human thought is evil, nor husbands rule over their wives, nor that Rebekah had a hairy redhead baby, nor that He would have said to Moses”I have made you like God, to Pharoah” as that goes against the Tree of Knowledge information in Genesis and lots of prophecies have not come true, including most of Yshuas. I do think people will have to spend a lot of time under God, with no priests or churches involved in order to to this, but these papers on God are Tree of Life requirements and assignments when you are at that level. Again, Kabbalah.
        Must trot…cats are hungry, sorry about the typos!
        Take care,
        K
        Xx

        • NealeDonaldWalsch

          Thank you for your reply, Kristen. I appreciate your taking the time to offer me your thoughts even more extensively. I have some things on my schedule this morning, so cannot take the time I would like to respond, but with your indulgence, I will wait until I have a longer moment this day or tomorrow for sure, to offer my own thoughts on yours, and we shall see if we cannot come to a place of mutual love for each other as humans, and mutual respect for each other’s beliefs and point of view.

          I appreciate you for having the courage to work for God in the way that you have felt called. Regardless of our differing beliefs, I have a personal point of reference of how challenging this can be. If there is nothing else that I say that you can agree with, allow me at least to thank you for your dedication and your work.

          I’ll be back here with more later. I believe all of my readers will benefit from hearing what you have to say.

          Blessings………neale.

          • Kristen

            Thanks Neale…yes, conversation, especially with differing views is much more interesting and beneficial to all than the same views expressed in different ways.
            My personal view towards people is that as long as they are opposed to suffering, then we are on the same page no matter the differences or methods.
            Have a good day, although it’s your evening.
            Xx (Thats a Kabbalic blessing symbol, representing one from God on the forehead, and another from the sender meaning love or “I come in peace”). One of those Laws in our human downloads that good people do to children and pets! A mini Universal Law! : )

        • DANiEL JACKSoN

          Kristen,

          May I interject a couple of things here?

          I read your (lengthy) statement and and the one thing that truly stands out is that you are very passionate about what you are stating. One who so passionate about a subject, generally speaking, may not ‘allow’ themselves to ‘believe’ that there may be another way of interpreting those ‘messages’ from God.

          I’ve read most of Neale’s books and have found them very interesting, yet, generally speaking, those books I read just validated what I already perceived as ‘truth’ of my own understandings of (what is commonly called) God.

          I read CWG once (vols. 1-3) and other books that augmented these three books, however as I attempted to re-read those (3) books I found that what is already known does not have to be repeated constantly, so I placed them back in my library and haven’t read them since (about a year now, give or take). I have found that meditation is my personal choice of receiving information. I have studied psychology and human behavior, awhile back, and found that ‘reading a book’ (no matter which book) is a subconscious process due to the fact that it takes a lot of imagination and visualization to create the images that the author is ‘trying’ to express. That is, it takes more ‘brainpower’ to read a phrase then it would take to ‘see’ it as a video. Hence, if ‘we’ continue to ‘read’ a book over and over again then it will eventually become a part of the subconscious mind. You made a statement that you have studied psychology (yourself) so you may understand that attempting to ‘remove’ something from the subconscious mind is very difficult (to accomplish).

          My point being, that ‘reading’ any book (or books) may not be the ‘best’ way to receive certain information, if that book is read and re-read and translated by others (and so on) but not using One’s own ‘mind’ to come up with One’s own ‘point-of-view’ is not the ‘Genius’ way to extrapolate information and allow it (that information) to become ‘part’ of One’s own essence.

          However, I must admit that I am more inclined to believe Neale’s conceptions much more then your conceptions Aren’t ‘we’ as a product of God (all loving) a little ‘tired’ of hearing about God’s Hate and Judgements? I know I am.

          Simply stated, How CAN a GOD Hate? A God is called God because ‘we’ cannot truly understand the processes of that which ‘we’ call God. Hate IS a Fear (essence) and to believe that God ‘Fears’ anything only makes God more Humanlike and God can never become like ‘us’ Kristen (thank Goodness), not in the sense as ‘we’ express ourselves, that is.

          Your statement that God Hates (crossdressers, etc) really turned my stomach for I have come to know God as a most Loving, Compassionate, Gentle and Wise God.

          It has taken ‘me’ over 40 years of meditation to come to this conclusion. I haven’t allowed ‘others’ to persuade ‘me’ to think otherwise. I have come to understand (know) God as a most Loving God and God has a great Sense of Humor too. To allow yourself (or anyone else) to ‘Fear’ God is a travesty (in my opinion). I cannot allow ‘you’ (or anyone else) to cause God to be Feared. I Love God, I Love Jesus, I Love Master Buddha, I Love all Masters and Teachers, and I Love YOU, for you are my precious Sister. We may have different ‘points-of-view’ but that doesn’t suggest that ‘we’ are not of the same family, the Human Family.

          I personally bless you for your passionate ways and only suggest that you may have to ‘relax’ a little more in your (rigid) philosophy, this may allow ‘you’ to understand that there may, just may be more ways to conceive God than can be imagined.

          There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

          • Kristen

            Hi Daniel,
            Yes, you may interject! Neale asked me to clarify a few things more in depth, as I did. I completely agree with you about learning, true Kabbalah actually forbids learning from books, you must think and learn for yourself…Einstein used this method. I am not religious at all, my journey into all of this started with Law studies, out of curiosity, to find out how humans differ from other primates, the mind/soul/thinking process and if there was a Judgement Day, what was this based on. This is just where I ended up. I read scripture from a Law perspective, staying out of Gods religion and the relationship between Him and His religious followers. I did not know I was an Israelite, that God was really the God of one small family…mine so therefore me, and that this was a path God chose for me, ending up working for Him (the lost sheep of Israel being rounded uo, and Gods mansion has many rooms…both scriptures I can confirm are true). My theological studies were well into my studies…after the New Age, CwG, the Afterlife, mediumship, healing, all other religions, Universal Laws etc, and I read, and still do read, scripture with no brainwashing, no preconceived ideas, no Christianity background and study through either Rabbis or the Hebrew University in Israel now. You have assumed….a nono for anyone with psychological training, tap on the hand..,you yourself had a preconceived assumption based in what you have inputted into your brain that I was religious. Haha.
            My entire point in here, and with Neale is that neither he, nor anyone else should be putting words into Gods mouth, nor implying the one he communicates with is God, when it clearly isnt and 80% of Neales books are the exact opposite to scripture.
            It is not my place to question Gods views, he expresses them very clearly in scripture including about men are not to dress in a womans clothing, nor a woman in mans, and that men are not to make love to a man as they would a woman (sodomy). Everyone, including God, are entitled to their opinions, just as you are, and I will not question nor judge God for His. I am a humble human that wholey respects the powers that be above, without their input, most of which is still manual, we would be hairless primates. If you have a problem with their views I suggest you discuss it with them. If you really want to have it out, try The Source…he can not withstand anything below his/its idea of beauty and perfection (or at least halfway between normal and perfection). He will not acknowledge disfigurements, females over a US size 6 (I actually think a 2 but I will be nice…if I get above a size 2 personally I know The Source will ignore me), no make up if people need it, mess, bad smells, dirty shoes, ugly animals etc. Go for it, good luck fighting a losing battle, but you may think its fun.
            I am very blessed to have been taken on my journey, God, The Source, Angels, Christs etc are my family, all of which have very strong opinions, are authorised judges and punishers and very tough, I do not need to kid myself that God is nice 24/7, that they differ from how they are and that they should change just because some people cannot handle the fact that we are all judged and face consequences. And very blessed to have reached a position where I can access and feel them. Even if 6 billion people were brainwashed into thinking there were no judgements it would not change a thing, get over it and be righteous and right your own wrongs them you have nothing to worry about do you?! Im not a baby that needs God as a surrogate daddy or grandpa, I like God as a grump that laughs at me and whom I drive nuts, that is our relationship BUT I always get things I want and He is on my side, pushes me because He believes in me and my potential…..and is my boss! Iam an independant strong human as we are meant to be and don’t need suggogate daddy love or to believe lies about God to make me feel better? Are you??
            All said with a smile, as everything I type is.
            Xx

          • DANiEL JACKSoN

            Wonderfully said Kristen, I love your honesty and determination.

            I, too, do not require a Daddy God but it’s nice when GrandDaddy (as I sometimes call ‘him’) comes in a just has a wonderful ‘chat’ now and then just to prove that God is as Wonderful as God can be imagined. I have, in the past, been a ‘buttererupper’ when it came to God but that has passed too. I find God a truly wonderful Deity and as you expressed, I once said that God ‘is my God’, yet to believe God is ‘my anything’ is assuming that God can be possessed. Most unlikely, of course.

            I do, however, understand that there is a process that ‘we’ all (have) to accomplish to ‘reach’ higher levels of understanding and spirituality. It doesn’t matter what ‘we’ may believe is the process it will (eventually) be achieved no matter how hard ‘we’ try not too.

            I appreciate your reply and have found ‘your’ statement of a higher spirituality than expected, which pleases me greatly.

            Keep up with ‘your’ (good) work and possibly there will eventually be a more comfortable meeting of minds regarding whatever ‘we’ perceive what God truly (may) be. It actually doesn’t matter much, for One can believe God is a ‘tin can’ and another God is a ‘rainbow’, or of such things. The only significant thing is that THERE IS A GOD and no matter how God is perceived that just may ‘be’ what God is (to each of us).

            I cannot disagree with your logic and I will not allow myself to accept that which you have expressed (wholly) but there is much that is said (by you) that makes perfect sense.

            I just came up with an idea… Perhaps, just Perhaps…God is different to each and everyone of ‘us’ and how ‘we’ perceive God IS what God may be to ‘each’ of us. This being said, then perhaps there is a Heaven that is exactly ‘how we’ imagine it to be. Just perhaps there is actually much ‘more’ to God than can be explained in any ONES’ conceptions. Perhaps ‘we’ are all correct in our beliefs and no ONE is wrong. Perhaps God is expressed in a variety of ways to each singularity (us) as which ‘we’ imagine God to be. Just perhaps there is no right way or wrong way to understand who and what God truly IS…??? I just allowed ‘myself’ to expand just a little bit more than I was a moment ago through ‘your’ statement.

            Much thanks for your reply,

            I would generally make a statement at closing as…

            GOD BLESS YOU but that only assumes that God hasn’t blessed you which I believe God already has…so in closing

            GODSPEED, Kristen, Gods speed.

          • Kristen

            Hi,
            Thank you. Now I feel really mean about my other reply, about arrogance etc…I dont think I will read your reply in case you took it personally, rather than of me speaking of human arrogance in general! Its so hard to get across that Neales God, and the Biblical God are two completely different entities. Yes, psychological avoidance of a situation in not reading it…but hey, shows I have a conscience and honestly express normal human behavior…right? Haha.
            Xx

          • DANiEL JACKSoN

            No, do not ‘feel’ mean about anything you say, my friend. It is ‘your’ truth and that all that (truly) matters. I appreciate that you were concerned about ‘my feelings’ but I do not get offended by truthful expressions.

            I do, however, love your conceptions (or truths), it is most enlightening to ‘see’ someone who is not afraid of those expressions no matter what ‘others’ may think.

            Above all things, be truthful to thine own self (it is said) and you, apparently, do not have anything to ‘hide’. Wonderful!

            I can understand what you are ‘saying’ about reincarnates ‘sucking up’ to God, haven’t we all (at one time or another?)

            I have and probably still do, perhaps in a lesser way, seek approval (from God) or ‘our’ Highest Expression which only provides ‘me’ with validations, nothing more than a ‘selfish act’ agreed, but who said being ‘selfish’ is not a good thing? I believe that One has to take care of themselves (first) for there ‘is’ no other that can or will provide (us) with this desired experience.

            keeping short at this point and time and thank you for your reply.
            Ciao

          • Kristen

            Hi,
            Yes selfish is not a negative thing, its a constant balance between ourself and all others. Unfortunately we generally lose because of parenting and work. Society, via the mass mind tries to brainwash us into thinking so many normal or neutral words are negative…especially the word NO. God, Yshua, most teachings including CwG all try to teach us honesty, are all tough to be kind and to say NO, and not to bully others. We are so far from that basic two letter concept its nuts. Every adukt should be big and ugly enough to take care of themselves, we need to, kids, animals, the elderly and disabled are dependant on us, people need to grow up and man up, starting with being a bit more selfish. People personify everything as a means to manipulate others, a shrewd deliberate form of dominance. I have it every day, I am a cake decorator…just today a customer tried to manipulate me into doing what she wanted (a figurine of her grandaughter in her flight attendants uniform), my 1000th reason finally made her accept a big fat no, but it finally took “I dont liking making figurines, Sept is a busy month, so as a self employed person I can be selective what I do, so I am not doing it because I dont want to”! Surely, “I am sorry but I am not doing any figurines or 3d cakes in Sept would be enough. 90% of people would cave and be selfless, ending up being miserable, just so a stranger can get what they want. Since when is $20 worth me being peed off for a week and doing something for that one $20hr I dont want to do, probably at 10pm too! Its all really sad, society likes sheep, so the goats can get full freewill at the sheeps expense (yes, sheeps is a plural now, Ill get the dictionary changed).
            In Kabbalah, you have to break free from the mass mind before a teacher is even assigned to you, and completely blank your mind and brain to any influence, including self-psych and brain tricks…because the first step is truth seeking and self analysis. Not trying to convert you, its all automated, everyone in here will be at this position already.
            Take care, nice chatting.
            Xx

          • Kristen

            Hi again,
            Can I just put this all in perspective with a parable, unfortunately I have to bring mysekf in to it (I hate attention).
            Many people own their own businesses, which they have spend many years developing, God and the higher powers are no different. And they also ‘own’ many words…The Source owns the words beauty, perfection, balance, joy, controls tears etc, God owns the word marriage, Law, religion, Christ etc. They made up the concept and everything behind their own businesses, concepts and words, just as some on Earth do. Even CwG teaches you shoukd respect the views of others, and should never tey to force anyone to do anything they want to do. In trying to change God just because your views differ, you are expressing sheer arrogance.
            My parable would be that as a Kabbalist who has done the Tree of Life journey, and my Law/Christ qualifications, I can work from a big building where God as a relugious God and Universal God of Law and Judge of all, The Source, Creator, much Higher Powers, Christs, Priests all have top floor offices. I can work up there and access them whenever I want, but prefer my physical lifeon the ground floor. I have a desk…I often get a call to come into work. Neale is in the same position, but he takes and publishes dictation and is his Gods only spokesperson. I litterally got a call from ‘upstairs’ in Dec to come in here and get Neale to stop telling lies about God, and to stop his 21 Dec 2012 Peace campaign. Which I did. Its all as simple as them asking a receptionist to go into the building next door and talk to Neale and get him to understand consequences. I am still trying, its my job, and I am paid like any other parttime job. Thats all it is. I am one receptionist/messenger trying to get through to Neale, and you all. When you question me about God, diss Himor His ways, I am just going to say that I support tne higher powers, I generally agree with them, I understand what they are all about and a part of my little job is to warn my fellow humans not to tell or spread lies about them. That is why I say if you have any oroblems with God, scripture, Law, judgements and the way they do THEIR jobs and the words they own, then get praying and ring them yourself to express your views. But will warn you, they will just think you are an arrogant fool, question why you fear judgement and consequences which The Source will already know as he/it is The All Seeing Eye, and put you in the ‘mortal’ list. This arrogance to question, and even judge them, is 10x worse than bowling up to any huge business owners and designers here and looking like a fool thinking you know better than them…would you tell Donald Trump how to build, The Federal Bank how to make money, the CEO of BMW how to build cars, Da Vinci how to draw etc.
            Im not being mean, and it all makes me smile, I know my bosses and humans very well and our arrogance is appalling. Lucky they all have great senses of humour, except Yshua, and so will just laugh and pat you in the head saying silly little child, he has so much to learn.

            Again, said with a smile, and sorry about the typos, Im on a tablet and editing is a pain. You will understand the psychology behind that…its just not important enough for me to spend time doing something I dont want to do!
            Take care,
            Xx

  • mewabe

    Hasn’t humanity had this conversation (below) for centuries now?

    The problem with this conversation is that each person claims some sort of authority on these matters. This is not just people having a normal dialogue based on thoughts…it is about whose divine revelation is more authentic and whose divine authority is greater and more valid. Has this exchange ever gotten anyone anywhere?

    When we feel the need to stand on the shoulder of a giant to make our massage look bigger than life, when we need to claim the highest authority in the known and unknown universe in order to add weight to our ideas, doesn’t this reveal an ultimate lack of confidence in our own thinking process?

    This, regrettably, short-circuits all possibilities of having a normal dialogue, as the person claiming the authority of revelations obviously implies that all other ideas are mere opinions. After all and in spite of all claims to the contrary as is often stated here (such as “ours is just another way”), who in their right mind could argue with God?

    • Kristen

      Party pooper!! You kind of missed the point that this is a God website!
      Im outa fried bread btw.

      Xx

      • mewabe

        Hey Kristen, for some odd and rather unexplainable reason, my replied to you has been suppressed (censored) even though there was no foul language (or foul odor), no links to websites or other pesky distractions, and no quote from anyone, only my own (unwelcome?) thoughts.

        I am not sure how anyone could rationally justify suppressing my response to you. If this is done automatically through some sort of program, then it is not working too well.

        It must be of these occasions when a person has to say “the ways of the Lord are mysterious”.

        I give up…I am wasting to much time here anyway.
        Take care and enjoy the fried bread (coming up).

        • Kristen

          Nothings odd in this world, in fact I dont even think theres such a word! Maybe you had foul breath, go clean your teeth!!! Im surprised Im not censored, or banned, at the mo…maybe you are by vague association. Maybe its the CIA spies??!!
          Will await the bread, do hope it has the yum blue mold, much nicer than the other varieties. Maybe the good bacterial properties will cure my winteritis. Or a Sun Dance may be in order. As in, I get on a plane to somewhere hot, and sunbathe with Sangria in ginger beer with lemon juice…..then do that lovely burning feet dance you do when you run barefoot on hot sand. It’ll do!
          Take care,
          Xx

          • mewabe

            Winteritis? Prepare for El Nino, he is about to throw a major tantrum worldwide…after the drought and fires here in California, the mud slides!
            I do this kind of sundance everyday here…walking barefoot on a deck, in 105 degrees temperature. My feet are suffering from extreme toohotitis.

            Censorship? I doubt it, perhaps it’s a program malfunction. Either way, it’s a welcome reminder that’s I do not belong here 🙂
            Vaya con Dios as they say in Norway…

          • Kristen

            Kai Ora bro (as they say in NZ),
            Yup Mrs El Ninos gonna be the biarch of all biarches, must be a female right?. Just a tip…theres a new invention just out for hot decks, called jandals/thongs…you may want to google it.
            Ka pai tamariki ma,
            Aroha xx

          • Kristen

            Job done, mission accomplished…..Im outa here.
            You take care, and love to all your little critters, and watch that El Nino biarch. Nice chatting and arguing over the years….oops, debating and expressing differing opinions.
            Thanks for the fried bread, arrived today, we just had Mongolian food so Ill have it for supper. Yum.
            Take care,
            K
            Xx

          • mewabe

            Hey won’t you miss the moldy fried bread? It’s okay I got you on automated delivery. Some wasna to go with that? (pemmican, dried meat, fat and crushed berries)…
            Take care,
            walk in beauty
            Aroha

          • Kristen

            Yes I will miss the bread so that would be great…unsure about the fat, but its your recipe not mine, so you know what you are doing….well, um, erm, gulp….yup, Ill stick with that since the extra flavour in the mold should work. Its called food in America isnt it?
            Xx

  • DANiEL JACKSoN

    Neal, wonderful to be here with you and all others at this sight.

    May I make a couple of statements here…

    To ‘believe’ that God could possibly ‘judge’ us for anything ‘we’ may experience would, truly, deem God as no greater than one of ‘our’ highest teachers, in fact, that ‘teacher’ may, in fact, be greater than God if (that teacher) chose to express ‘forgiveness’ to everyone without discrimination. Is it possible that ‘we’ have allowed God, the ultimate expression of love, to be less than ‘we’ can be? It would seem that ‘we’ have created God in our ‘own’ image and ‘we’ refuse to believe that ‘we’ cannot be created in the image of God (our Father/Mother). How can ‘we’ allow ‘ourselves’ to be ‘fearful’ of a God who not only loves us all UNCONDITIONALLY but INFINITELY as well.

    I had a conversation with God (one day) and I muster up the courage to ask (Him/Her) a question that I would find interesting. The question was “God, if there was anything that you may regret what would it be”? Of course God simply replied “I have NEVER had any regrets nor could I ever express that which you ask”. I had to reply that if there was a possibility of such a ‘feeling’, just for conversation’s sake, what might it be? God answered and replied “Just for conversation’s sake I would have to say, the one thing I may consider a regret would be that my Children are Afraid of Me”. I must admit that I would never conceive this as a possible regret to God, but I makes perfect sense that this one thing may be the ultimate ‘slap-in-the-face’ to God. ‘We’ have been taught by many (if not every) religious teachers (and leaders) that God is a Jealous and Vengeful God, yet I’ve come to ‘understand’ God as the most Loving and Gentle God ‘we’ all have prayed for in ‘our’ most deepest and secret place. God loves each and everyone of ‘us’ as much as God loves ‘itself’, for the truth is that ‘we’ are God expressed and God cannot, not Love ‘us’ for ‘we’ are that expression of God.

    God cannot LOVE in a selective way, that is, God does not and cannot LOVE in a limited expression for God can ONLY LOVE fully and unconditionally. The ONLY CONSTANT in an ever changing Universe is GOD’S LOVE which CAN NOT be expressed in any limited way. God love each and everyone (of us) equally. If ‘we’ were to believe that God loves Jesus more than ‘us’ then you don’t really understand God.

    Example…

    A MAN COMES BEFORE GOD…

    A Man come before God and says “My Dear Father God, do you not know that I love you fervently?” God replies and says “Of course my precious Child, do you not know that I have never stopped loving you?” The Man says “I have always believed it so”. The Man hesitates for a moment and says to God “My Divine Father, I would steal your Thunder, do you have any objections?” God laughs and says “My precious Child, do you know how long it’s been since I’ve longed to hear those words?” The Man says “then you have no objection?” God laughingly says “Of course not my Dear One, please be my guest, take my thunder and be the ruller of the Heavens and the Earth”. The Man reacts with over joyfulness and glee and says “Thank you, thank you so very much…then for a moment the Man pauses and asks God “My Divine Father, if I take your thunder then what would become of you?” God smiles and says “Well, my Child I then will become you, either way, there is no difference”.

  • Leon Jackson

    Another great topic up for discussion. In my opinion I think that God knows what we are going to do before we do or say. So with that being said what is their possibly to forgive us for. God loves us unconditionally and we as a society keep trying to restrict God’s love to certain conditions and criteria in order to obtain it and there’s nothing that we have to do to obtain it cause we already have it and always will. I mean let’s think about it, the bible clearly says in the book of Genesis that we are made in the image and likeness of God. So if God was really a unforgiving God as some may think, then when we make a mistake or sin, then God would not be forgiving himself cause we are him in the flesh. I respect everyone’s opinion and this is just my own opinion. But I think it’s time for us as a people to use our own minds based on the inspiration of God that’s already within each and everyone one of us. Get to know and have a personal relationship with God for your individual self and not based on someone else’s experience or relationship with God.

  • mewabe

    Heated debates have been raging for centuries, often complemented by actual persecutions and massacres, regarding whose God is the true God, whose scripture should be followed and how it should be interpreted. Today the debate continue between the proponents of a New Age spirituality, a new theology or cosmology, and the staunch guardians of traditional religion. One of the on going topics is whether right and wrong actually exist, or whether these concepts should be revised or possibly abandoned.

    How about following one’s conscience? Religion defines conscience as follow: “A conscience is all about having God’s standard in our heart to guide us in how we conduct ourselves”. That’s rather vague and presupposes the idea that one has been taught what “God’s standards” are.

    But a conscience, even cleared of any religious influence, does make us understand “right” from “wrong” through feelings of compassion and empathy. We know, when we follow our inner guidance, our true feelings, that it is ‘wrong” to willfully hurt another in any way, for example. There is no getting around it, if we are honest with ourselves and in touch with our fundamental humanity.

    When we follow the journey of the heart, of feeling and empathy, when we listen to our conscience, we know that there is potentially a “price” to pay for purposefully hurting another…there are consequences…but this “price”, the way I understand it, is not a punishment from anyone or any God for having broken some divine law or commandment. It is something we choose.

    Let me try to explain: when we don’t have enough feeling or empathy to stop ourselves from hurting others as an example, it means that our heart is not completely open. The “price” to open it, perhaps in a next life, is an ordeal, and often a very challenging and painful one that some describe as karmic, that we choose because we know, at a higher level, that we need to have whatever is keeping our heart closed broken down, we need to have our heart forced open, like ramming a closed door. Because this opening requires force, it is dramatic and intense, and hurts greatly. But it is necessary if one wants to achieve some sort of growth.

    This choice is formulated at a higher level of consciousness, not at the day to day level. No one consciously chooses to have difficulties in their lives. The soul does because it has a greater understanding.

    Those who have the key to this door, who open their heart willingly through love, do not need to go through such ordeals. But many choose a path of difficulties and very slow learning through pain and tough challenges, because the access to their heart is blocked. When it is, they cannot fully express their own inner divine nature and remain incomplete, unfulfilled.

    The way I see it, it is all about completely opening the heart, and aligning the heart, mind, body and spirit or soul in perfect unity and harmony with the physical universe and with the Source (this is represented by the ancient symbol of a cross within a circle also found in Native American culture as “the four directions”…the four directions are the heart, mind, body and spirit..the circle is the universe…the center is the One Source). It’s not impossible to achieve this unity when we follow our inner guidance and remain true to it no matter what, and when we live the truth that we are not separate but one with all life (“all my relations” in the Lakota culture).

    When we make the two (all polarity) one, we return to the Center (the Source) that is One. This is not an abstract concept but a living and very practical truth. That’s what the joining of hands in prayer or meditation means, yet everyone has forgotten this meaning. It is also the meaning of the Sacred Pipe with its “male” and “female” parts joined together. Speaking of male and female, that’s what would in theory make sexual union sacred. It is also another meaning of the cross within a circle. The cross from this perspective represents the union and perfect balance of polarity. The center of this ancient symbolic design is the One Source. It is where the heart should dwell, where it becomes alive and filled with power.

    It is easy, from this perspective to understand the symbolic imagery of Christianity, with the “Sacred Heart” of the Christ shinning in the center of the cross, representing his union with the Center (the Source, the Divine). But as Native Americans say, Christians remember the cross but forgot the circle…they forgot the spiritual union with the universe. They even forgot the meaning of the cross (the union of “opposites” or of polarities, and the integration of heart, mind, body and spirit).

    • DANiEL JACKSoN

      a most wonderful explanation of Divine Process. I agree with your statement and truthfully, it (that which has been stated) does follows my personal philosophy, yet it excels in many other ways that I (personally) have not ‘looked’ at as closely as you have. I, for one, appreciate this comment and have allowed myself to ‘expand’ (on your words) a bit more in which may be called the Divine Processes which has allowed ‘me’ to expand (myself) just a tad more than before I read this (wonderful) explanation. Thank you!

      I, personally, profess that I am not of any organized religion, nor do I endorse or disapprove of such ‘rigid’ beliefs and philosophies, it is entirely ‘up’ to that individual to “make up their own mind” to which they desire to recognize as ‘their’ truths or beliefs and/or philosophies. I, however, in my (personal) belief system may fall into a ‘category’ that is, currently, unknown to me (at this time). I do not chose to be categorized as ‘this or that’ for which that I sincerely ‘believe’ to be (my) truth works for ‘me’ (perfectly) yet ‘it’ may not work for another. Hence, my resistance to those who would ‘preach the word of God’ for who truly understands God and the Divine Process of which is called God?

      If ‘someone’ stands on a ‘soapbox’ and expresses “thou art a sinner” then tries to convert those to that one’s belief shows (truly) little respect for those who would listen. nor has that person taken inventory of their self for what is a ‘sin’ anyway?

      sin…

      [ sin ]

      NOUN

      noun: sin · plural noun: sins

      an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law:

      “a sin in the eyes of God”

      synonyms: immoral act · wrong · wrongdoing · act of evil/wickedness ·

      transgression · crime · offense · misdeed · misdemeanor · trespass · wickedness · wrongdoing · wrong · evil · evildoing · sinfulness · immorality · iniquity · vice · crime

      More

      antonyms: virtue

      an act regarded as a serious or regrettable fault, offense, or omission:

      “he committed the unforgivable sin of refusing to give interviews”

      synonyms: scandal · crime · disgrace · outrage

      VERB

      verb: sin · third person present: sins · past tense: sinned · past participle: sinned · present participle: sinning

      commit a sin:

      “I sinned and brought shame down on us”

      synonyms: commit a sin · commit an offense · transgress · do wrong

      Yet, even though, this may be the dictionary’s definition of ‘sin’ this may not be an accurate definition.

      It is said that the true definition of ‘sin’ is “to fall short of one’s goals”, now this makes perfect sense to me. Falling ‘short’ of one’s goals may be construed as the ultimate ‘sin’ if one understands what the ‘goal’ truly is. Jesus that which is called the Christ (christ = child or son of God) showed ‘us’ what ‘sin’ truly was/is, and what was He showing us? Not too many can truly ‘see’ what was the (true) process of that gentle and loving soul. We generally understand that Jesus died on the Cross (for our sins) and was resurrected shortly afterwards (about 3 days, so it is written). Yet the death and resurrection was to ‘show’ us, through example, what He (Jesus) was attempting to produce in this demonstration.

      Can you or anyone ‘guess’ what the (true) purpose of this demonstration was?

      • mewabe

        Thank you Daniel for your interesting response…

        I am not sure that what has been presented to us regarding Yeshua (Lesus in Latin, “Jesus”) is actually accurate. An enlightened person called Yeshua might have existed, but his life became a myth and very distorted. For one thing, those who created Christianity compromised the story or myth in order to draw large pagan populations to convert…they consequently had to include, as a key component, the idea of humanity’s guilt (“original sin”) and of redemption through blood sacrifice (the crucifixion), because that’s what humans had done for thousands of years (sacrificing virgins or animals to their deities). They had to appeal to this fearful need for atonement on the part of humanity.

        This need itself was rooted in a fear of inexplicable natural events, such as drought, destructive storms, floods, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, epidemics, which were all interpreted by primitive and ignorant people as a punishment from a deity for having transgressed some law. So if they were no laws written in the skies or on the mountains, they had to create their own laws and put them on tablets in the form of commandments from their God. Then they could “explain” disaster, and “reason” that their God was angry because someone had broken the law. Then this person could be stoned to death, and everything would return to normal.

        It was the same primitive “reasoning” a lunatic like Jerry Falwell used, who said 9/11 was caused by God’s wrath towards gays (in other words America had to be punished for its “sins”).

        Furthermore, very similar myths or stories as that of Yeshua had been told by diverse cultures for centuries…the death and resurrection idea, which is a very old idea, might have been rooted in earth religions concepts having to do with the regeneration of nature.

        The goal behind the creation of such a religion was to unite populations…pagan populations, tribes. That’s how the Holy Roman Empire came into existence…for unification. It was a strategic tool of mass control, nothing more. What the sword had began, religion would finish.

        However all myths have meanings. Even fairy tales have meanings. But meanings, or insights, come differently to every individual. There are also multiple meanings to every story or myth.

        • DANiEL JACKSoN

          Thank you for your response mewabe. I do enjoy your explanations and statements and I agree with you on basically everything you stated.

          However, you said that Jerry Falwell is a lunatic, I must interject here and say that Mr. Falwell is not (actually) a ‘lunatic’ for He is a man of religious power who ‘believes’ (he) is truly the ‘word’ of God and in this (possibly delusional) state, he can only respond to ‘us’ in (extremely) ‘limited’ remarks as a child would if a child saw something, let’s say, in the sky that was unexplainable but this child has to explain to others and says…”mama, dada, googoo” and ‘we’ say…”oh my god, he knows what he is talking about…it IS mama, dada, googoo” and ‘we’ bow before this great spiritual leader and go around quoting what ‘he’ says to others…”mama,dada,googoo” is the way to believe and if you don’t believe this then Father is going to get angry. Or something to that effect. I hope you understand that I am not defending this ‘person’, he truly doesn’t understand what he says, and that is dangerous.

          According to ‘Mother Nature’…it is not nice to ridicule others. Yet, according to my stomach…”I think I’m gonna puke”.

          Isn’t it a travesty for ‘our’ (so called) religious leaders, to make statements that are absolutely idiotic, yet they ‘get-away-with-it” because ‘they’ speak for/from God.

          just for conversation sake…

          I often think, if God was not so forgiving then ‘who’ would be the first to be punished? I would hope that the ‘Fear Mongers’ would be the first. Selling ‘fear’ for the sake of financial gain in the name of God, how sad it is. It all comes down to the Almighty Buck, doesn’t it? If a church is to survive then a church must preach ‘fear’ so the congregation pays ‘tiding’ to prevent a ‘vengeful’ God from sending ‘them’ to a ‘Hellish’ place.

          Yeshua bin Yosef, was a real person, in my beliefs anyway. He was/is a Master and according to some books, was still active in healing the sick and teaching in the Far East at the end of the 19th Century. Can I prove this, of course not but it was written by Western Scientists that these actions were observed and documented. Which I (like) to believe if true.

          However, it is late and I’m getting sleepy, so goodnight.

          • mewabe

            “If a church is to survive then a church must preach ‘fear’ so the congregation pays ‘tiding’ to prevent a ‘vengeful’ God from sending ‘them’ to a ‘Hellish’ place.”

            Yes, exactly…and that remains me of organized crime being paid “protection” money. I may be the only one seeing similarities, but it’s obvious to me, Different players, same principle, particularly when we remember that for a very long time the Church also used sadistic violence and physical terror to keep people in line (I visited some cathedrals in Europe, and seen their torture chambers).

            My own thought: if Yeshua came back today, he would be killed again, and not by atheists or “liberals”, but by the very “Christians” whose fundamentalism and fanatical extremism would cause them to call him an unwelcome troublemaker and of course a blasphemer.

          • DANiEL JACKSoN

            Interesting conception, my friend.

            I must agree with your statements for I personally don’t see anything that may be construed as inaccurate. In fact, perhaps a bit too accurate (for some) to even conceive to be true.

            You made a statement that I find interesting regarding Yeshua coming back as the Christ and being persecuted as a blasphemer and impostor. Unfortunately, this statement ‘is’ fearfully accurate. That is, probably, why Yeshua (Jesus) chooses to do (his) work in more secluded places where the populace requires essentials instead of resources (as ‘we’ have come to deem ‘important’).

            Most ‘starry eyed’ religious followers would certainly disagree for they only ‘see’ what their religious leaders ‘tell’ them to see. Isn’t is a most unfortunate circumstance that allows ‘our’ (most) gullible brothers and sisters to be lead like cattle to the grave? If someone asked ‘them’ a question they would naturally quote a phrase from a ‘book’ and say ‘this is the truth’, yet [much] of what has been written is ‘truly’ true? In fact, it doesn’t matter if what is written is true or not, what (truly) matters is that ‘we’ question ‘it’ and find out what works for ‘us’ without guidance by those who would discourage ‘us’ from thinking for ourselves.

  • Patrick Gannon

    The post asks ‘what if there is nothing for which we need to beg forgiveness from God’? The simple response is, ‘what if there is no God?’ In either case, the result seems to be the same… Presupposing a god does not prove there is one. What if we’re simply the product of evolution?

  • Kristen

    Hi Neale,
    A little out of context, since you had specifically asked me to explain things a bit more in depth, but the whole of my past two years in here to to try to get you to acknowledge that the one you communicate with is nothing to do with the one we identify as God…the Biblical God. The one you commune with is a completely different entity who impersonates Him. The one that biblical scriptures identify as He of Lawlessness, and Christians call Satan (I do not, I call all evil entities and people losers or just it).
    BUT you started saying “please forgive me for placing this in here”….erm, sure Neale, very humble but you do not need my forgiveness, nor anyones and I am even sure God will forgive you too! Im sure its listed with the 23 sins in the OT!
    I am just grateful that I have made my point, your view differ, but all I can ask is that you have process my point, addressed it in here and have clarified to your readers that you completly acknowledge you cannot say you books are the words or teachings of the true God. You have no idea how grateful I am to you for addressing this, a weight off my shoulders, and I can move on from being in here.
    Re the psychological discussion, Neale, you bought up humble, and I responded from a purely psychological teaching aspect, which I fully agree with. Quite out of context, but thats OK, I will assume we have differing understandings of the word humble, but I do apologise for my comment about flying etc…it was a generalisation but misworded as a personal comment so I understand your reaction. You should not have stooped to my level explaining. And I fly business class too sometimes, and stay in 5 star accommodation, so it was a dumb example of the difference between humble and ego! And I have taggers on and groupies sometimes when I travel…..oh hang on, sorry….they are the kids. Oops!
    How can you not know what an Israelite is Neale? The entire story of God and humans in Scripture is of God as the God of one family…Israelites. Offspring of Abraham and Sarahs son. Even the final scriptures in Revelation have God referring to us as “my people Israel”.
    OT is the old testament, I understand you engaged in biblical studies earlier in your life, and now dedicate your life to serving ‘God’, so I am actually almost in shock that you appear to not have fully read and understand scripture??? Consequences and judgements are all in there, we are now in Revelation. The last 4 books in the Christian bible explain a lot, often starting with “woe to you…”.

    You had previously asked how I ‘know’ some of Gods views, I clarified for you how I can try to work out correct and incorrect information in scripture, it was out of context or without you showing how you asked my to explain it, makes me sound like a bit of a dork, but hey, thats ok, I can do dork…there are a lot worse things out there to be! In context we were discussing how scripture forbids lying about God and tells us not to put words in His mouth, so at your request I was trying to explain how I personally try to sort truth from lies, and have to depend on knowing God now. Again, remembering that the God over you is an Afterlife God, and nothing to do with the one I call God or the Biblical God. All those matters starting with ‘I know….’ were random examples of this.
    When you and I are under completely different Gods, there are so many things we would never agree upon, whilst we both support our own God, but as I said earlier, as long as people are opposed to suffering in any capacity, we are on the same side. To me, that is where the entire race is divided into 3 groups…suffering causers, those who dont care, and those who fight against it and care.
    Anyway, its late, I just saw this in here so thought I would clarify a couple of things, and thank you for your time and for addressing my point after a few years of bringing it up. Thats all I wanted, thank you.
    Take care Neale
    Xx

    • Patricia Hayward

      whoa Kristen-Love is patient, kind, not rude, self-seeking, angry, proud, boastful, envious, counting wrongs. (from 1 Corinthians 13:4-5) Everything boils down to Love. Love is the bottom line. Love is God. If you want to quote the scripture, “God is Love.” 1 John 4:8

      • Kristen

        Hi, yes I agree, but I have had to be harsh and forthright to make a point. Especially when the latest book is ‘You have me all wrong’. In comments in the bottom of this thread Neale stated he wanted to address what I have to say as he felt his readers may benefit from it, so I have.
        Its ok, in real life I am a kind, gentle, funny person.
        Scripture also states to love God, and fear God…yes God is love, but it is conditional. It also states God will test righteous peoples strength and depth of a sense of justice combined with righteousness (this is the meaning of a white cross), and that God will be harsh on those He cares about like a tough father. We can never just quote God with one scripture especially when so many readers in here have not read the Bible, my Rabbi teaches that each quote should be accompanied by at least 3 more on the same subject matter, for truth and clarity. This is also the way of Kabbalah teachings.
        Take care,
        K

        • Patricia Hayward

          You say above, “Scripture also states to love God, and fear God…yes God is love, but it is conditional.” Kristen, God’s love is not conditional. “For God so loved the world (the world, Kristen) that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever (whosoever Kristen) believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. I did use one scripture, 1 John 4:8, “God is Love,” because it is simple and pretty hard to misunderstand. You (and/or your Rabbi and “the way of the Kabbalah teachings”) need or require at least 3 more scriptures “on the same subject matter for truth and clarity.” Ephesians 3:19 Paul in his prayer to the Ephesians in Ephesians 3:14-21 “And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge” and 1 John 4:7 “Let us love one another for love is of God, and everyone who loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not, knoweth not God;” and 2 Thessalonians 3:5, Romans 5:5, Ephesians 2:4-6 “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together in heavenly places” There is nothing we can do Kristen to change God. God is perfect. We can not earn Love (God). We can not deserve Love (God). “There is none righteous, no not one” Kristen, you, me, Neale. Romans 3:10 All that we can do is believe! “Only believe.” Mark 5:36 There are many more scriptures that I have found. So now I’ll say it again. I will quote myself this time from my replying to your conversation with Neale: “Love is the bottom line. “God is Love” 1 John 4:8″ and now you have “at least 3 more (scripture references) on the subject matter, for truth and clarity.” I invite you to now reread my initial reply. Se if you can understand the point that was being made then, before you decided that it was n’t good enough with only “God is Love” being quoted from our Bible. We (you and I) can learn so much more if we would talk less and listen more. That goes for prayer as well: talk less, and listen more. I love you. Love.

          • Kristen

            Hi,
            Thanks. I do not want to change God, I love how the real God is (not Neales impersonator), whether he is being a grump ‘yelling’ at people as He often is in scripture, enforcing consequences and punishing, being tough, or being loving. That is why He identifies as “I AM”. We should never try to change God, nor allow ourselves to deviate from the truths on how God is, which is why I feel the CwG teachings are dangerous and misleading, and scripture forbids putting words into Gods mouth.
            Glad you know your scriptures! “Gods word is a mighty sword”.
            Take care, I am done in here, mission accomplished.
            K
            Xx

          • Patricia Hayward

            Thank you. I now have a pet name for Spirit, Lovey Dovey. We love it! It feels intimate. Life is perception and choice. I Am Christian and I Am also done here now.

          • Kristen

            I, yup ‘done in here’ is good. Im cancelling Disqus now so wont get reply alerts, but as a Christian you should know that Neales God is He of Lawlessness as prophecised, and 666 (which means peace…thats the mark to avoid).
            Take care,
            Xx

          • Patrick Gannon

            What does any of this “scripture” have to do with reality? Paul predicted Jesus’ imminent return – he was wrong. Paul said sin came to the world through one man, Adam. He was wrong; Jesus failed to tell him about evolution – there was no Adam. Jesus himself said he would return while some still living were extant. He was wrong. You quote “Paul” in Ephesians, but historians know Paul almost certainly didn’t write that; as he’d been dead for perhaps 40 years when it was written by someone else writing in his name – today we call it forgery. You quote from John, which was written about 60 years after Jesus dies, and the author describes a very different Jesus from the other three gospels – and he disagrees with the other gospels on some very important points. This is all stuff written by humans, based on oral traditions passed along for decades. All of it is suspect.

            You quote biblical scripture in the same way Neale quotes CwG as scripture, and indeed there is much disagreement between the two sets of scripture – hence Neale’s book suggesting that the bible and other old scripture got it all wrong, but what both share is the need to “believe” something that others tell you to believe.

            When will we get a prophet or messenger who tells us we need to question the very notion of belief itself? When will we admit to ourselves that we really don’t know and that to tell ourselves we do know, sets up internal discord in our brain and/or consciousness that affects how we live our lives? What if we admitted to ourselves that we just don’t know…. What if we admitted that what empirical evidence there is that does exist, seems to indicate that consciousness arises from the brain, and suggests that “free will” may be just an illusion? This may be right, or this may be wrong, but it can and will be tested. Neale’s God or Bible God cannot be tested or confirmed, only believed in – and to do so is to lie to ourselves. Doesn’t true progress begin when we stop lying to ourselves and hiding behind beliefs that contradict what we really know deep inside – that we are ignorant of this matter of god and the afterlife? It may or may not be so, but shouldn’t we start by admitting we don’t know and stop swallowing beliefs put forth by others (who usually benefit through finance or power).

    • NealeDonaldWalsch

      As I said in my reply, Kristen, I had addressed your point 20 years ago in my very first book, and numerous times in my other books over the years. So this is far, far from being the first time I have made my statements publicly. Thank you for your time and for noticing that I addressed this point from the beginning, and have been “bringing it up” myself for years. Sorry it took you so long to catch up to that fact. Glad you did at last. Sending every good thought………neale.

      • Kristen

        Thank you Neale for allowing me to have my say….I still think the very titles “Conversations with God”, and especially “You have me all wrong” are very misleading, especially when readers may not have read scripture to compare but I have gotten as far as I can on this.
        Again, thanks for addressing my point.
        Take care,
        K
        Xx

        • hempwise

          Your scripture is very young in the grand scheme of things ,Humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years .Possibly millions ?

          And your scripture was written in a different time and place .For me it’s not relevant in fact confusing and keeping billions in Bondage ,afraid and intolerant of each .

          Is the scripture useful to the indigenous people of our world who live sustainable or is it useful for a taker culture who assimilates all in its righteousness and justifies its dominator lifestyle .The interpretation are so wide and you see people here quoting passages from books that suit there preference .All the while the people of the planet are suffering they struggle to open there heart to the grandest truth and collectively empowering message that we are all one with each other and life /god source call it what you will !!.

          If we could actually remember this and come from this understanding life might actually work . So by transcending all the old stuff of god which gets to kill with impunity and is most extreme where Organized religion is said to have come from (middle east ).
          As today as there was yesteryear the same old killing goes on ,no one i see has a clue how to stop it or even mentions solutions so stuck in there old beliefs .They would rather die being right than live with the fact there old books are in fact misunderstandings and not functional for life to thrive and evolve .
          My 2 cents worth sorry to offend anyone .

          • Kristen

            I agree, and I am not religious and definately not a Christian…they are the epitome of only reading or quoting what suits them. I have pointed out scriotures that people may not want to hear, Patricia has pointed out lovel dovey ones. My point is that it is Gods religion, not anyone elses, so it is not for Neale or anyone else to be selective what they quote, to change Gods words to suit themselves, to question Gods own ‘business’ and especially not to mislead people into believing God is not a universal judge and imposes consequences. Thats all….put more bluntly, for people to stop lying.
            My view personally is that Gods religions would have been much better without the New Testament…including Yshua, as the apostles/groupies/evangelists words are latched onto by Christians, distorting the entire religion and allows people to latch onto whomever they want to, and distort it. Look at how Catholicism has latched onto Paul, the female hater, over the years. God said priests should be married, but the church chooses Pauls opinions over Gods word.
            I dont care what people believe, as long as it isnt blatant lies, not just about God, but everything.
            Xx

          • Patrick Gannon

            What if the very idea of God is a blatant lie? You won’t know till you die – if then. Chances are good that you’ll simply cease to exist and your particles will rejoin the cosmos as ONE.

          • Kristen

            Some of us know and can feel our relevant Gods, so zero chance of that. Considering 99% of people are reincarnated now, they have already spent considerable time in the Afterlife. You’ll see!!
            Xx

          • Patrick Gannon

            And how do I know that those of you who claim to “know and feel” your “relevant Gods” (interesting choice of terms) aren’t merely delusional? How do you know yourself that you aren’t delusional? Without empirical evidence, there is no way to be sure, is there?

          • Kristen

            Perhaps you could trust that we are generally sane intelligent people, who are not compulsive liars.
            Xx

          • Patrick Gannon

            Kristin you may NOT put words in my mouth. I did not call anyone a liar, compulsive or otherwise. Being delusional is different from knowingly lying, and I’m sure you know that. Delusional people believe what they are saying, they are not lying in the normal sense of the word. This technique of putting words in another person’s mouth so that you can denigrate them is one frequently used by believers and religionists and it’s certainly not a “highest vision” approach to debate.

            It is, in my opinion, highly improbable, but nevertheless possible, that people who claim knowledge (as opposed to belief) about god, the afterlife, psi effects, etc. indeed have said knowledge; however without evidence the default position of all others should be skepticism. To believe what you, or a fundy, or NDW or anyone else says we should believe without evidence – is to lie to ourselves.

            Please feel free to disagree with me, I enjoy the conversation; but do not put words in my mouth that I did not say.

          • Kristen

            Hi…not the intent..Im just exhausted at the mo so rushing. We cannot prove our own truths to you, but trust me, for many or most people they are real. I was previously a medium, could see spirits, have had an awake OBE, prayers answered immediately, had a ‘missing day’ and lots of truths and different realities. 12 years of them, at least something proven as reality to me every day. Even now my overseer will sit on my bed which feels like a cat jumping on then a very strong vibration like a strong crystal, or my invisible teacher will make my hand tingle to get my attention. (I have God, an overseer and a teacher in place of guides as I am not reincarnated, and often an invisible security guard with me).
            I would suggest you perhaps discuss it with Jewish people or Muslims as well as more new agey people like in here. Christians are a whole different ballgame as they are generally after immortality via Yshua so may just have blind faith, but I cannot imagine that the OT or strict followers like the Jewish and Muslims would be so devout without God proving Himself, and following proven truths and evidence, especially within family lines for thousands of years. There is a set of books, now out of orint, called Small Miracles which are full of normal peoples truths too, similar to tear jerking Chicken Soup For The Soul books but all of divine intervention (they aren’t Christian books….thatd be a turn off for me).
            My work in here is done, Im outa here.
            Take care,
            K
            Xx
            PS I have high functioning Autism…delusions are not an option, we think like scientists, its either black, white or bs, and are probably the most mistrusting people in existance BUT its an important part of human nature to believe that other peoples experiences are real, most have no reason to deceive themselves or others.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Thank you for your response, Kristin.

            I would primarily take issue with your last sentence: “… its an important part of human nature to believe that other peoples experiences are real, most have no reason to deceive themselves or others.”

            The history of humanity is one of deception. People deluded themselves into thinking the earth was the center of the universe, that there were countless pagan gods in countless societies, that creation myths were literally true, just like virgin births and physical resurrections, and because things that appeared to be normal (like the sun going around the earth) were not as they appeared. We still wrestle with this. Our intuition tells us the apple falls to the floor, but actually, it’s the curvature of space/time pushing up to the apple that describes gravity. How we believe gravity works is mostly a delusion, (and it’s looking more and more like free will is a delusion). It was when those beliefs were challenged that we began to learn about ourselves and to throw off the chains of societal and personal ignorance and delusion. We still have a long way to go.

            Well meaning people like Neale or even yourself and others acting individually or in other “new age” groups, want people to change beliefs to what they believe, in the belief that this will make things better. I think we have to start with an admission of ignorance, and find a way to look at possibilities without invoking belief, which continues to hide our ignorance and courage to admit it.

            The default position, I think, should be open minded skepticism. Look for evidence – and that means questioning one’s own beliefs and asking whether one might potentially be delusional, as well as questioning what others want you to believe (and question what’s in it for them, if you do accept their belief). Understand intellectually that without evidence, it’s always going to be believing, rather than knowing. If that evidence cannot be empirically shared with others, then it’s of some minor subjective, but very limited, value for others trying to find truth through open-minded skepticism.

            Those who profess to have psi experiences, such as OBE’s, or to be aware of spirit guides and the like – if there are so many people who can do this, why isn’t there a large repository of empirical evidence by now? Why aren’t there verified reports of people going out of body, visiting elsewhere, recording details and then having them confirmed? Why aren’t there more experiments to prove all this is valid? I’ve read books with compelling arguments, but there seems to be no real empirical evidence, otherwise I think we’d all know about it. It is absolutely valid to insist on this evidence when one is being told about these events; and without it, such subjective, personal experiences should contribute very little to the scales of evaluation and decision making. I’m very interested in the experiences you and others have professed here. Provide some real evidence and I’ll be your biggest cheerleader.

            When the Dr. Quantum video made the double-slit experiment famous and the New Agers jumped on all over quantum mechanics as if it explained their new god, an experiment was performed, I think by Dean Radin’s group, to see if psychics could affect the outcome, i.e. alter the probabilities, of a particle coming out one slit vs the other. They claimed “significant” results, but other researchers pointed out that the results were “lost in the noise.” In other words – it’s not significant at all. If it was significant, then why hasn’t it been tested again on a larger scale, with more finely tuned instruments? The technology is constantly and rapidly advancing. Instead, what we get are repeatable experiments indicating that the brain makes decisions well before the consciousness is aware of having made a decision… The weight on the scales is going in the other direction, just as it has for the myths of religion. New evidence never supports a 6 day creation or an Exodus from Egypt or a genocide in Canaan – none of that stuff happened. As I result, can’t take your Jewish story any more seriously than I can Neale’s story that “God” conversed with him. What I find interesting is that you apparently believe that Neale really had a conversation, it just wasn’t with the right “God.” Neither of you can prove yourself correct or the other wrong, so why should anyone believe either of you?

            If all this stuff is true, and I remain open minded on the subject, then why isn’t there real evidence by now? I “believed” it very much at one time, but the more research I do, the less convinced I become. Sometimes I hope it’s true, sometimes I hope its not, but all I know for sure is that I do not know – and without real empirical evidence, I think that’s true for all of us whether we admit it to ourselves and others, or not.

            I think you are correct that it is a part of human nature, (which really means evolutionary genetics), for humans to instinctively believe what others tell them. This could be an important evolutionary survival technique. If one doesn’t believe one’s parents and tribal mates when they yell, ‘watch out for the lion,’ then they are less likely to pass on their genes than another individual who is inclined to believe what he or she is told without question. Those conditions don’t exist, at least in more and more of the world, as they did in the past and the advantage of a “belief” gene (assuming this is eventually confirmed and identified), would no longer provide an evolutionary advantage, but indeed would make one susceptible to being taken advantage of. And of course, that’s exactly what happens with religious, patriotic, political, and other beliefs.

            Humans somehow evolved to a level that enables us to be the only species we know of that has the ability to intentionally modify its genetic path. Where we go from here will be interesting. We need to get some of us off this planet fast though if we are to have a “backup hard drive” for the human genome. Hard drives crash on a fairly regular basis – meaning extinction events occur on a fairly regular basis. Our species “hard drive” is operating without redundancy or backup and the hard drive will crash. It’s just a matter of time. Right now, we have to turn to technology and science and use our ability to alter our own evolutionary path by backing ourselves up and moving that backup off-planet. If we’re worth backing up, that is…

  • Patricia Hayward

    whoa! Kristen-Love is patient and kind, not rude, self seeking, angry, proud, boastful, envious, counting wrongs. (1 Corinthians 13:4-5) Everything all boils down to Love. Love is the bottom line. Love is God. If you want to quote scripture “God is Love.” 1 John 4:8