A Voice in the Wilderness
WAS EINSTEIN RIGHT ABOUT ENERGIES
THAT CREATE AND SOLVE PROBLEMS?

Somewhere along the way we have to ask ourselves: Was Einstein on to something when he said that you can’t solve a problem by using the same energy that created it?

Can you bring an end to violence with violence? Can you bring an end to war with war? Can you bring an end to someone else’s anger with anger of your own?

There is a delicate balance here that begs to be struck. To sit back and do nothing after the witnessing of abject cruelty and rampant violence — even though it may not involve or affect you directly — may simply not be tolerable to the mind of a person of conscience.

If you saw a woman being attacked in an alley as you happened by, would you keep on walking, reasoning that it doesn’t involve you or affect you, and therefore you should do nothing?

Likewise, if you saw men, women, children and even babies suffering cruel and agonizing deaths after being attacked with chemical weapons, would you look the other way, saying that it doesn’t involve you or affect you, and therefore you should do nothing? Or would you risk getting involved — and involving others who are even less affected than anyone, being third-party removed — in the name of what feels “right” to you at the depth of your being?

There is a delicate balance here that begs to be struck. This is precisely the balance that U.S. President Donald Trump is trying to find in response to events in Syria.

Is it our job to “police the world,” making sure that its leaders do what we think is right and just and good, even if it could cost some of our own their lives?, people in the United States are asking today. Is it our place to let the rest of the world sort itself out without our intervention at any level that involves force, so long as the violence is not inflicted on us?

This appears to be the question of the moment in the minds of many. Yet the posing of that question in that way suggests that all this is what is often called a “Zero Sum Game” — or a proposition in which one participant’s gain exactly equals another participant’s loss, producing a balanced outcome.

The challenge here is that there is more than one way to produce such a balance, where the pendulum rests squarely in the middle, or the scales hang evenly, or the seesaw winds up perfectly level. To produce such a balance, one would have to use equal force, for sure, but would it have to be identical force?

In the case of nations, some would argue that economic force could be as impactful as physical force. Yet if one participant’s economic condition is buttressed and supported by a third party, the second participant’s use of economic force could wind up having no effect whatsoever. (The same could be said about physical force, for exactly the same reason.)

How, then, does one’s intervention stop from becoming meaningless? Or worse yet, harmful to oneself?

This is what keeps occupants of the Lincoln Bedroom in the White House up all night. It is what turns the hair of Presidents noticeably grey noticeably quickly after taking office. It is why being the Chief of State of any nation in the world can be an endlessly thankless job.

What is the spiritual solution to the world’s dilemmas? Is there even a good one to be considered? This is a question that I am asked a lot these days. It is a question I ask myself a lot. And that brings me back to Einstein. Was he right?

I’d like to put the question you to, here — and the specific issue of what, if any, an effective response, spiritual or otherwise, might be to the use of chemical weapons in Syria — before I offer my own observation.

I shall read your comments below with great interest.

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  • Victor Lopez Rossi

    We’ve talked about this very same issue before. Syria, 2013, etc.

    A lot of wisdom and fair observations at those times.

    Some conclusions, as I remember:

    – Only true or accurate observations about what is happening can heal or solution ill things.

    – Denial is not the way of awareness.

    – Rampant violence can not solve rampant violence.

    – The USA has NOT to be the policemen of the world. Less, if they’ve acted so many times as the delinquent.

    – UN or an actual, democratic UNION of countries with equal rights, voice, and vote, is the way for resolutions that could be applicated to any leader of the world that act as a bully. (That’s not the case by now. As CWG book 2 stated, the UN is absolutely unefficient.

    – Of course, it is to be observed that in recent issues (50 years ago until now) countries such EEUU or others that attack others don’t do it by ‘good will’, or trying to stop violence or ‘evil’. Just the contrary, they act JUST by their self economical and geopolitical interest, and the rest are just excuses. Deluded or false alledgments for making interventions or attacks, and of course, more violence and war arises from that. Irak, Vietnam, Chile, Iran, Nicaragua, Panama, Yugoslavia, Palestine, Somalia, Lybia, Afghanisthan, El Salvador, Grenada, Y emen……. …….. ……. you name it. Failure in observing this is the first reason in why this continues.

    – Corporate media is puppet of global corporate interests. They don’t serve truth’s agenda but ‘the ones in charge’s agenda.

    – As Neale said once, paraphrasing: “the trouble of the world is that the very few who rule it, are really very few but they are organized and have a common agenda, meanwhile the vast majorities that could change things, are NOT organized NOR have a common agenda”. And I’d add, from CWG2: ” [talking about people with beliefs in ‘free market’ and stablishment ‘truths’] “they are terribly mistaken and don’t understand nothing about what happens in the world”.

    – “We Are All One” is the main cultural meme that would have to inspire every rule, law, agreement, negotiation, or conflict resolution efforts. But the majority of the world still believes in: “the strongest: the ones with the biggest gun, win and take it all”. So, we still live in this primitive concept. We’d have to change that, but education, media, religion, and politics are absolutely formed in “the winner takes it all” vision. Very hard work to do.

    – Never give up HOPE.

    Well, that’s what I can recall by now.

    EInstein was right in my oppinion, but almost anybody believes him… So, here we are again, new US Presidente, the very same politics.

    Help us God! (God is ALL of humanity and beyond).

  • Sam

    Surprisingly, the answer is easy. There is never anything wrong going on. A wrong decision or action does not exist. We are here, on Earth, to put our hand in the bee’s nest, and from there on evolve, as a law of nature. We can not, whatever we do, miss out. Some will intervene. Others will not. Some are meditating no matter what. Some reach “enlightenment”, making their way home, and won’t help out. Nothing is wrong. Hitler went to heaven… Death is a better place… Any suffering, regardless whom, or how bad, is something inside which you need to resolve yourself… As a human, this is very hard words to put down. But I also know, from another point of view, it is the truth.

    • There is never anything wrong going on? A wrong decision or action does not exist? We are here on Earth to put our hand in every bee’s nest 🙂 ? 🙂 I don’t know about those. Doesn’t a honey bee have one honey, so to speak? Okay back to the point? I just. have a hard time agreeing with those lines. Also, I want to overcome death. .I want to experience it so much, havingt come close on a couple f occassions. .actually there at least three near deaths almost jumped in a bottomless pit, brain tumor, car hitting head, too, so yeah. not my year. At any rate, I believe we cannot discuss Neale’s topic if we truly believe nothing is ever wrong going on anywhere. Relaltively speaking, we ain’t in heaven I guess that’s the problem Sorry to disagree, but I can’t help it. What are we here for, but to engage in debate 🙂

      • Kirsten

        Dont apologise for sanity and the truth. Its backwards!!!!
        Xx

        • Rainbow Shell

          wouldn’t think of it 🙂 xxoo

      • Sam

        You have a very high vibration, Rainbow. I love it 🙂 And I don’t mind disagreements. Especially not on these issues. It’s not more easy for me than for anyone else. But christ was crucified for a reason (if that story holds water). The real truth is often painful. Do not stop being you 🙂

        • Rainbow Shell

          🙂 hmmm I’m working onthe vibe and it is up and down, so to speak. At any rate, what can I add to that. . there seems to be a deep comment I cannot grasp the extent just yet . .. .I’m working on it. ..Christ died on a cross…and it does hold water..so wow you got me once again 🙂

    • Victor Lopez Rossi

      When your baby gets killed by a bomb or by a madman with a gun, we’ll see…

      • Sam

        Any action I choose to pursue, or anybody, is right. There is no other way to find out, “learn”, and evolve.

        • mewabe

          How many times must you repeat or witness the same event before learning from it and evolving past it? How many thousands of years must humanity keep on shedding its own blood before no longer having an appetite for it, or for hatred, or greed, or persecution, and everything else that makes life rather challenging for so many?

          We can learn the hard way, or the easy way. The hard way is usually chosen by the unintelligent. It is not wrong to be unintelligent, but it gets old after a while.

          • Sam

            Well said. Sometimes it must go to the absolute worst, it seems, before it can turn for the better. (Like the atrocities of the Nazis and the shock it gave the world). Just heartbreaking.

          • mewabe

            I agree, it is sad.

    • mewabe

      Hitler did not go to heaven, because heaven is not a place. It is a state of mind, a dimension of consciousness. Hitler, as everyone else, did not go anywhere…he found himself “residing” in his own state of consciousness, until he (hopefully) healed his own suffering and evolved, as we all must.

      Physical death doesn’t equal enlightenment or spiritual liberation…and the spirit world is no more “heaven” or “hell” than the physical. Wherever you are, there you find your own state of consciousness. If it is fearful, you experience fear…If it is hateful, you experience hate…If it is loving, you experience love, regardless of whether you are in the physical or spiritual dimension.

      • Kirsten

        Perfect reply Mewbob. One would assume Hitler was in a Hell state of consciousness.

        And Sam, your reply would be insulting and hurtful to many. The word wrong exists because good people observed the actions of others, the opposite of right or just (neutral) and came up with a word to define those things as. Same as the word evil…people needed a word to define the intolerable acts they observed in others, like intentionally causing suffering.
        The only place wrong and evil dont exist is an Eden, a step up from a Heavenly state of mind, where the individuals are unaware of wrong or evil, because it cannot access them, so they are oblivious to it as a concept. Like all animals and children should be. The word innocent refers to this…those who have no concepts of wrong…righteous people.
        Dont be brainwashed into thinking words, and their meanings dont exist!!
        Take care,
        K

        • mewabe

          Thanks Kirsten…I will frame it and hang it on the wall.
          Yes we have been given a conscience…to do something with it, such as knowing right from wrong. There is always a spiritual price to be paid for taking a life without cause, even an animal life…the price is, we go down the ladder rather than up, towards ignorance rather than enlightenment, and fear and separation rather than love and unity.
          It’s not a matter of divine rewards of punishments, but of “vibrations”, of spiritual energy and resonance. We attracts what we are.

          • Kirsten

            Yes, you should frame it!! Along with your wallmart diplomas.
            Even better idea… go onto vistaprint website where everyone gets business cards from. You can order logo pens, tshirts etc. You can have tshirts with MEWABE SPIRITUAL CONSULTANCY..occasionally right, once perfect, for your follower groupies.
            Cant get cooler than that, unless of course, you get coffee cups too!
            Xx

            PS re conscience. Did you know righteous people are oblivious to wrong, so dont really have a conscience, they dont need one?. They can only become aware of wrong in observing others. Then generally think wtf??? No concepts of cheating, arguing, stealing, deception, abuse, ugliness, drinking too much, turning a blind eye etc but are real fighters when they encounter wrong or evil.

          • mewabe

            Right and wrong are judgments that are useful to people who need a code of conduct. We need such a code when we have no understanding or knowledge of true love. Love is the ultimate and highest law, and we need no other when we understand its meaning. When we don’t, we need judgment (from our own conscience).
            Thus Spoke Zarathustra aka mewablob
            PS: don’t make fun of my Walmart diplomas, you hurt my feelings…

          • Sam

            If you say there is a need for such a code, you’re right, because there is no wrong. Pursue your idea, use it, for how long it takes, and change it if/when you find a better one. That is the scientific way. A “failed” experiment is right, as all necessary for the process of finding out.

          • mewabe

            What I say does not matter…none of what anyone writes here or says anywhere else matters. It’s what we do that matters.

            But since we are playing with words and ideas here, let’s play. I personally have no need for rules, codes, laws and judgments. I never have. But I understand that many people have such a need, which is why we have laws and the means to enforce them, because such people’s actions are not always inspired by love, to say the least.

          • Sam

            “What I say does not matter…none of what anyone writes here or says anywhere else matters. It’s what we do that matters.”

            I am sure the power of the pen has an influence too, and especially for the one writing/talking.

            “But I understand that many people have such a need, which is why we have laws and the means to enforce them, because such people’s actions are not always inspired by love, to say the least.

            Of course. The current method, in lack of something better. We are really learning it well. And why we can improve it to the next level, and with time scrap it altogether. Whatever we do, and repeat, is from not knowing better, until we, from discontent, and the urge for better, finally do.

          • mewabe

            It is a very slow process…it shouldn’t be, but there are so many stragglers, and even so many who now want to go backward! Patience has to be the ultimate virtue…

          • Kirsten

            Tshirt arrived, thanks. I love the Mewtrump logo as well. Score getting Walmart as your sponsor.
            Something very odd is going on in here, Neales moderating, post I put up re 2012 and peace has gone. That was pro Neale, very odd.
            Later Fessorpro Wabeme,
            Kbobinskistein

          • Sam

            “Yes we have been given a conscience…to do something with it, such as knowing right from wrong.”

            Then why the misery in the world?

          • mewabe

            What kind of misery are you referring to? Mental, physical, emotional, all of the above?

          • Sam

            The kind to occur without the guidance of the conscience.

          • mewabe

            Unconditional love should be the first and only guide…our conscience is the default guide, that comes into use when love is not well understood or suppressed.
            The bottom line is always love…its absence, distortion or acknowledgement. Our conscience can only take us so far, dealing with concepts of “right” and “wrong”, which are limited judgments and lead to doing “right” out of guilt rather than love, as do religious rules.
            Rules and concepts of “right” and “wrong” can be useful as guidance for the unevolved. But they quickly become an obstacle to evolution.

          • Sam

            I kinda like this explanation 🙂

      • Sam

        Who says heaven isn’t a state of mind?

        • mewabe

          To state, as Neale did, that “Hitler went to Heaven” seems to imply, correct me if I am wrong, that Hitler went to heaven after leaving his physical body.

          Neale wrote this to make a point…that there is no judgment after death. I agree that there is no judgment. But it also implies that physical death means enlightenment (reaching an heavenly state of mind). That’s completely inaccurate, and that’s why it is misleading if you take his point literally.

          Physical death would not provide a magic ticket for Hitler to “go” to a heavenly state of mind. Death is not enlightenment. Your consciousness will not change upon your death…you will remain who you are until you evolve. You will be in a different environment, easier to deal with in many ways, but you will still be you, with your beliefs, your personality, your desires, your wounds and fears, and your limitations.

          • Sam

            “I agree that there is no judgment. But it also implies that physical death means enlightenment (reaching an heavenly state of mind). That’s completely inaccurate, and that’s why it is misleading if you take his point literally.”

            I find your point misleading. Full enlightenment is a given. Death is a process of unlearning your limitations, and again be your full and absolute self. And then decide, knowing everything, what you will do next.

            “You will be in a different environment, easier to deal with in many ways, but you will still be you, with your beliefs, your personality, your desires, your wounds and fears, and your limitations.”

            This is the absolute first moment after death. You soon move on to higher levels. It only takes some time getting used to.

          • mewabe

            We will have to agree to disagree.

            If full enlightenment was a given after death, people would not carry negative “baggage” (unresolved issues, fears or terrors etc) from one life to another, they would be born each time with a clean slate.

          • Sam

            Earth, and a body, is another dimension, and somewhat like putting on a suit. Only then you get the old feeling back. Full enlightenment is essential for the making of informed choices, to understand where you been, in the context to where go next.

          • mewabe

            If you automatically gained full enlightenment after death, you wouldn’t need to go anywhere after that, especially not come back to as dense and difficult a dimension as that of the earth!
            That’s precisely what is taught in the east, in the Vedanta philosophy, in yoga and others disciplines…enlightenment is pursued so as to not have a need or desire to come back and repeat the same endless cycles of birth and death.

          • Sam

            “If you automatically gained full enlightenment after death, you wouldn’t need to go anywhere after that, especially not come back to as dense and difficult a dimension as that of the earth!”

            If you take away free will, then you are here by force? And not the need to go anywhere? How nice, but not for an endless eternity 🙂 And exactly why the “difficult dimension” was created. “Can’t live with it, can’t live without it”. You come back for more.

            “That’s precisely what is taught in the east, in the Vedanta philosophy, in yoga and others disciplines…enlightenment is pursued so as to not have a need to come back and repeat the same endless cycles of birth and death.”

            Life in the old days was really tough. This notion fitted right in. You never need to come back, but you do by choice. Also because each lifetime usually gets a little better, and you have progress. You will go far, like HEB’s, and way beyond. But the universe will collapse, and start over. And so will you — by choice. The road is the goal — an endless circle.

          • mewabe

            We disagree on those points….

    • Awareness

      Indeed Hitler went to heaven (no one is going to hell) 🙂

      “Now I am going to repeat something I said in Book 1, and I know that it was very, very difficult for some to grasp, to understand.

      Hitler went to heaven.”

      “First, he could not have gone to hell because hell does not exist. Therefore, there is only one place left to which he could have gone. But that begs the question. The real issue is whether Hitler’s actions were “wrong.” Yet I have said over and over again that there is no “right” or “wrong” in the universe. A thing is not intrinsically right or wrong. A thing simply is”- “Conversations with God” book 2 by Neale Donald Walsh 🙂

      “There is no such thing as “getting to heaven.” There is only a knowing that you are already there. There is an accepting, an understanding, not a working for or a striving.

      You cannot go to where you already are. To do that, you would have to leave where you are, and that would defeat the whole purpose of the journey. The irony is that most people think they have to leave where they are to get to where they want to be. And so they leave heaven in order to get to heaven—and go through hell.

      Enlightenment is understanding that there is nowhere to go, nothing to do, and nobody you have to be except exactly who you’re being right now. You are on a journey to nowhere.

      Heaven—as you call it—is nowhere. Let’s just put some space between the w and the h in that word and you’ll see that heaven is now… here.” – “Conversations with God” book 1 by Neale Donald Walsch 🙂

      With the understanding that “Heaven” is a “state of being” 🙂

      “Heaven is not an actual place, but a State of Being. ‘The other side’ is not a location in the cosmos, it is an expression of the cosmos. It is a way of being. It is ‘being in heaven’ through the process of self-expression–which is the expression of Divinity Itself, in, as, and through the Self.” – “Home with God” by Neale Donald Walsch 🙂

      Bless ALL 🙂

      • Sam

        And who in hell can interpret all that? 🙂 No, I wasn’t swearing 🙂

        I like to get to the point of things, and to simplify. So, what it says is:
        It’s great to be alive! It’s heaven!

        Complicated is for intellectuals 🙂

        • Awareness

          The Law of Gratitude is Given 😀
          Bless ALL 🙂

      • Rainbow Shell

        I love all the quotes. I think they are true. I am still trying to understand how Hitler got pure but I am sure that God has a method for purifying the body, mind, and soul so that the only remainder is pure essence . Using the whole being that he is. . .he/she/it whatever we call it God is pure consciousness/goldenest light so there is a dividing energy that expresses the dim energy from a plane of existence that holds malcontent energy or energy with intention of malcontent for many.

        That there is a distinction between an HEB’s, highly evolved positive energy and energy on earth that is creating chaotic events like Syria’s chemical weaponry against human or any brutal killing anywhere, we have to ask how one can say that there is no right or wrong. If God said in the latest book that God has preference and certain desires, we surely don’t think God desires the killing off of human.

        But, thank you for the quotes. I appreciate rereading them.

        • God has no preferences.

          • Rainbow Shell

            In the new book, he said to Neale that he had desire. I don’t have my kindle book open or I would quote it. in between 5 and 7 somewhere. .I’ll try to find it. I am taking the word “preference” as the synonym for desire. If one has a desire, one has a preference, right?

          • Charles

            God lives in want of nothing. Anything God wants, God can have. Yet God does have desires. It is Devine desire that powers the universe. CWG 4 second paragraph page 12.

          • Rainbow Shell

            thank you :)) I couldn’t locate it. .you saved me :)) my cords blow out of the wall usually. . .no lie..I have to buy a new kindle cord. they pop out for no good reason. wow God is pure desire. Where would we be without it :))

          • Charles

            Where would we be without God? Talking about a different entity, or the same entity by another name.

          • Rainbow Shell

            there are many versions that go by the same name. .it’s a pyramid scheme, i guess :))

  • mewabe

    Violence begins when there is a quest for power. Whether in the animal kingdom or the human world, when dominance is sought, violence erupts.

    We will end violence when we no longer strive for dominant power, it is as simple as that, whether in the prison yard or between or within nations.

    We will no longer strive for dominant power when we are no longer fearful.

    We will no longer be fearful when we no longer feel separate from everything and everyone else.

    And we will no longer feel separate when we no longer believe or think we are. Period.

    The suffering that we see in the world is the creation of fear, which is the direct product of the thought and experience of separation. Look at it this way: the mightiest weapons are the voice of the greatest fear. The most powerful military on earth is the obvious expression and creation of a most frightened population, of the most frightened minds, of the most deluded minds, deluded by the thought of separation.

    • Victor Lopez Rossi

      I’d like to highlight this:

      ” Naivety is as dangerous as ignorance, and often originates from it, or from a desire to use denial as a buffer against despair.To
      believe in the good intentions of the authorities no matter what
      (regardless of evidence to the contrary) usually originates from a
      relatively authoritarian upbringing (not infrequently religious). I have
      noticed such a tendency in Neale, surprisingly (to grant the
      authorities good intentions regardless).”

      I don’t think Neale is naive nor out of data. I think he knows well.

      Well, why do sometimes he speaks as such? You’ll have to ask him… 😉

      • mewabe

        Perhaps he strives not to alienate his audience politically. Or else he thinks giving people in authority the benefit of the doubt is a spiritual approach. My gut feeling is that he is relatively conservative, middle of the road on many topics. In any case, denial is never helpful…to heal a cancer, we first have to acknowledge that it is taking place.

        • Charles

          Not being political, what exactly is conservative or middle of the road? Is this another way to say more accepting or not as quick to anger? Middle of the road meaning highly willing to look at both sides? Politicians seem to have their own language.

          • mewabe

            Criticism does not imply anger, but the ability to discern truth from falsehood. Criticism is a mental, not an emotional process. Politically, middle of the road means “establishment”…respect for the “authorities” and the status quo, while perhaps wishing for some minor changes and progress on some limited social issues. That’s where many Democrats stand.
            Conservatives (the rightwing) are usually authoritarians and reactionary, but some of the left is getting increasingly authoritarian and intolerant as well. Authoritarianism is spreading rapidly…
            I do not know Neale, but I am always surprised at his willingness to believe the lies of the mainstream media and of government. That was my point…everything is rather irrelevant.

          • Charles

            The point was not important, I actually just wanted to understand the words better. Thank you.

  • Charles

    We have been welcomed to feel and think about many different things here. Do we try to help the girl being attacked? Of course. Likewise, if I saw men, women, children and even babies suffering cruel and agonizing deaths after being attacked with chemical weapons, would I look the other way, saying that it doesn’t involve me or affect me, and therefore I should do nothing? Or would I risk getting involved? If possible I would be of assistance to the victims. I may urge others to do the same.

    In the case of ordering bombs in Syria, my immediate response is to say no, I would not bomb anyone or anything. There is a delicate balance here that begs to be struck. A delicate response that cannot be responded to by one person alone. There are times when war can and cannot be avoided and there are rules in our world for this very problem, below is a brief description.

    What is a ‘just cause’?……..
    …There must be a just cause for the war. War must be waged only in response to certain, grave and lasting damage inflicted by an aggressor.
    …The motive for war must be advancement of good or avoidance of evil.
    …The ultimate objective of war must be to bring peace.
    …Revenge, revolt, a desire to harm, dominate, or exploit and similar things are not justification for war.
    …Every possible means of peacefully settling the conflict must be exhausted first.
    …There must be serious prospects of success; bloodshed without hope of victory cannot be justified.
    …The war must be declared by a legitimate authority. Private individuals or groups should seek redress of their rights through their governments, not by acts of war.
    …The war must not cause greater evil than the evil to be eliminated.
    …Non-combatants (civilians) must not be intentionally harmed.
    …Prisoners and conquered peoples must be treated justly.

    I cannot disagree with the above. If wars must be waged then they must. I am still reading awaken the species. There’s always a chance the world could awaken and we would not need to be faced with such questions. Be it chemical warfare or bombs or bullets or rocks. Whether a person is an adult male, female, child or baby, I am saddened by the needless violence. We have the ability to give equal amounts of everything to everyone. There’s no need to have wars if people would just wake up to that.

  • It isn’t our job to police dog other nations. We can intervene on behalf of the victims, but only if we have ten to twenty other nations as a back up. Who are we if we don’t come together and sit down at the table and attempt conversation first. Is it okay to come out and beat the drum of another nation without any other members in the band? We need more in a band than just one nation banging on a spoon when there are many other spoons to bang a tune of peace offering to the other supposed enemy nation. It really must be something of peace rather than fear that we model to the rest of the world. If we can’t come together and support each other as a united front of nations and at least sit down at a table to discuss viable options, then what are we as civilzation? Civilized countries speak softly and carry a big stick. .how does it go? We need to walk softly and carry no stick, in my view.. We have to be united as a world against a terroristic world threat. It takes more than one to convince the rest of the world that this is necessary. Without the rest of the world’s support, there will be more late nights at the Lincoln bedroom in the future. In my view, rather than stay up all night in the Lincoln bedroom worrying, I suggest the leaders get together, have meetings, maybe ome dinner together, some pasta, a few glasses of wine, even a martini or two. Seriously, it doesn’t hurt to join together and discuss with people relaxed rather than hair afray and eyes aglaze with stern indignation and fear. I am not being facetious. I really believe when we play together, we share ideas. We can’t ruffle our feathers, like peacocks, and assume the world will respond favorably. Response is one thing and reaction is quite another.

    Truly, perhaps, it’s too late, but maybe not. I mean, we can band together and call for many nations such as the United Nations to sit together and talk. What do the United Nations do anyway? Has there been a meeting amongst at least ten or twenty, nations, or is this only one nation’s decision. We need this to be a joint held meeting and a joint decision. It shouldn’t weigh on just one president–to act or not act. To be the iron fist that hammers down the gamut that unleashes the energy that ignites a blast into a plume, a mushroom of indescribable, inutterable devastation–WW III. Having many foreign leaders talk it over first and weigh the pros and cons. .discussing what can be done asking questions like is it economically feasible even? We already send our business overseas; medical care system, social security and on and on are skyrocketed. We have our share of impoverished people here. Can US afford to be police dog for any country other than itself in an act of self defense?.

    Force should be last choice. , always and I don’t even like the word force except in defense, it could be necessary, i guess. If someone is having a field day at my door, I might use self defence and certainly a country is given support by many if they sit down at a table and first agree on things. We put too much pressure on our one nation to act, to save the world, and all of that. It isn’t our job to do this alone. This breeds animosity in other nations. Not good foreign policy, in my view. I think, we have a new president and we need to give it more time before we jump to a war trigger button.

  • Stephen mills

    I believe the most powerful countries in our world have to disarm at the same time .What kind of message would that send to the world ? Sending out a different or opposing energy as Einstein suggested !!

    Imagine they just decided to scrap all weapons and not build anymore.A collective effort to not use violence and persue killing ,a decision based on ENOUGH of the waste of life ,on the observation that it’s not WORKING to create a world we all say we want to live in.

    I know this is a pipe dream but the major powers that are perputrating the most violence are at the same time being complicit in orchestrating wars then washing their hands of any wrong doing . My country for example the UK sells billions of £’s of weapons, military hardware to any regime that wants it ..Saudi Arabia who are using it to wipe out an entire country Yemen.Over 20 million people require food aid as 90% of the food is imported ….guess what they bombed the ports to restrict food access using bombs made in the UK. No wonder Scotland wants independance from England to decide on its own future a nuclear free and peaceful country .

    We need to find out the truth about the chemical weapons used possibly Sarin manufactured some say in the UK . Those who ordered the use of this have to immediately arrested and put on trial as crimes against humanity.However so many terrible things are going on the courts would be full and many would be politicians and people in authority who we have trusted ?

    CAAT (Campaing Against Arms Trade ) is an organisation in Scotland that are are shining the light of truth on what’s going on in the desire for profits from war which causes strife and suffering . The profiteers claim it’s just business as usual and are doing this for the economy and to support jobs.

  • Victor Lopez Rossi

    My comment was deleted???

    • Victor Lopez Rossi

      It was the first comment in this post.

      • mewabe

        I never saw it…things have been happening lately. A bug?

        • Victor Lopez Rossi

          Maybe that it was for connectivity issues…

          I copy it here again:

          We’ve talked about this very same issue before. Syria, 2013, etc.

          A lot of wisdom and fair observations at those times.

          Some conclusions, as I remember:

          – Only true or accurate observations about what is happening can heal or solution ill things.

          – Denial is not the way of awareness.

          – Rampant violence can not solve rampant violence.

          – The USA has NOT to be the policemen of the world. Less, if they’ve acted so many times as the delinquent.


          UN or an actual, democratic UNION of countries with equal rights,
          voice, and vote, is the way for resolutions that could be applicated to
          any leader of the world that act as a bully. (That’s not the case by
          now. As CWG book 2 stated, the UN is absolutely unefficient.


          Of course, it is to be observed that in recent issues (50 years ago
          until now) countries such EEUU or others that attack others don’t do it
          by ‘good will’, or trying to stop violence or ‘evil’. Just the contrary,
          they act JUST by their self economical and geopolitical interest, and
          the rest are just excuses. Deluded or false alledgments for making
          interventions or attacks, and of course, more violence and war arises
          from that. Irak, Vietnam, Chile, Iran, Nicaragua, Panama, Yugoslavia,
          Palestine, Somalia, Lybia, Afghanisthan, El Salvador, Grenada, Y
          emen……. …….. ……. you name it. Failure in observing this is
          the first reason in why this continues.

          – Corporate media is puppet of global corporate interests. They don’t serve truth’s agenda but ‘the ones in charge’s agenda.


          As Neale said once, paraphrasing: “the trouble of the world is that the
          very few who rule it, are really very few but they are organized and
          have a common agenda, meanwhile the vast majorities that could change
          things, are NOT organized NOR have a common agenda”. And I’d add, from
          CWG2: ” [talking about people with beliefs in ‘free market’ and
          stablishment ‘truths’] “they are terribly mistaken and don’t understand
          nothing about what happens in the world”.

          – “We Are
          All One” is the main cultural meme that would have to inspire every
          rule, law, agreement, negotiation, or conflict resolution efforts. But
          the majority of the world still believes in: “the strongest: the ones
          with the biggest gun, win and take it all”. So, we still live in this
          primitive concept. We’d have to change that, but education, media,
          religion, and politics are absolutely formed in “the winner takes it
          all” vision. Very hard work to do.

          – Never give up HOPE.

          Well, that’s what I can recall by now.

          EInstein
          was right in my oppinion, but almost anybody believes him… So, here
          we are again, new US Presidente, the very same politics.

          Help us God! (God is ALL of humanity and beyond).

          • mewabe

            I agree…history keeps repeating itself over and over again. And very few seem to even be aware of it! They think that everything they see and hear is new…”a new crisis”…”a new conflict”…all of these things are so old they should have been buried long ago! Everything we do, think and believe is obsolete. Our global civilization is dying…and it needs to die, to be replaced by something completely different.

      • mewabe

        Here we go again, your comment vanished once more. Let’s call it the vanishing comment.
        (“Awaiting moderation”…for what? Was it undercooked?)

        • Victor Lopez Rossi

          I don’t understand neither… :-/

  • Spiritual_Annie

    I’ve been in spiritual action since the news hit of the chemical weapons attack. It has triggered many thoughts, feelings and actions.

    First, there is whether what we hear as the news is true, not that there was an attack, but who was behind it. Unfortunately, one can no longer take the “news” as fact without bias. I have heard that it was Syria’s government that used the nerve agent. I have heard it was his opposition, in order to “create” a reason for more U.S. involvement. I have heard it was a cooperative effort to keep the money flowing in a long-term war. I have heard that it was Russia without the condoning of the Syrian government. Take your pick. Until more is known, we cannot be certain who it is that’s responsible for using chemical warfare.

    Second, there is the huge geo-political game of war that’s been ongoing now for centuries. In this instance, who are the real players? The money behind the war is as important as the actual soldiers. I feel the soldiers, and parts of the government, are all pawns in a much larger game: how to make the rich even richer.

    The scenarios Neale has put before us all have one thing in common: they are all opportunities for us to choose who to be in relation to them. In each case, I would choose unconditional love and compassion. Always.

    From that position, I would unconditionally love and feel compassion for all involved. I would act from love by trying to intervene on behalf of a woman being attacked because that’s what I believe love would do. I have, in fact, done so in the past. I have also acted from love when it comes to the chemical attack by first going inside through meditation to send love to all parties involved, including those who engaged in chemical warfare. I believe their view of the world is limited, and I pray for them to have clearer insight into what it is they think, say and do. I’ve been staying away from social media, but in this case I am going to speak up when I have the right words to say. They haven’t come to me yet, but they will.

    I certainly believe this is a time for the U.S. to decide who it is we choose to be. Many believe this was a purposeful attack far beyond the borders of Syria; that it is one more step in destabilizing the region in order for Israel to have enough support to retake all of Jerusalem, rebuild the temple, and bring on Armageddon. The U.S. has played a major role in establishing and legitimizing Israel, I believe for this purpose. We are, in the majority, a Christian nation. Many might not make that connection, but I believe those in power behind the powers that be understand it.

    I have also been signing as many petitions against war as I possibly can, as well as keeping in touch with World Without War and other peace-oriented organizations. I write my congressmen nearly daily, advising caution and love (though in political language). I attend Evolutionary Church (nondenominational, run by the Center for Integral Wisdom) nearly every week, where we pray as a group and as individuals. I allow myself to feel the pain of those suffering in their grief for as long as I can, then make sure I take breaks for my own emotional health.

    What the U.S might coose to do in the long term is still to be seen. The bombing of the airport was a knee-jerk reaction to prove that the U.S. has military strength and isn’t afraid to use it. But this wasn’t an attack against the U.S. In my view, it was an attack against everyone. As all is One, we are all affected by what each of us does. That means we can all affect the outcome. I know many in the spiritual communities who are gathering to meditate, pray, and put our loving energy into the situation.

    It all begins and ends with each of us. The actions we take as individuals affect the whole. I stand with love, and I will not change in the face of violence.

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • Victor Lopez Rossi

      Love, Compassion. Yes, I agree.

      Also Awareness, Consciousness, Truth.

      All part of the very same ONE.

    • Victor Lopez Rossi

      About awareness in this topic, I observe that it is the very same script used in many countries, included Syria, just some years ago: a false attack flag, used for stablishing hegemonic power. In this case, USA, NATO and its allies. Just like in Irak, Afghanistan, Lybia, Yemen, Vietnam… you name it.

      So, in the very first place, if we are not capable of just observing just what it is happening, and who does what, we can’t heal nor solve things.

      If you see the woman or child raped, ok you can pray for the child, woman, and even the rapist, but if you can’t see who the rapist is, or if he is disguised to see as your husband for example, and your husband is shot by police and the press, so everybody believes your husband is the rapist, and the true rapist is free, nothing will stop him from raping again.

      Perhaps meditation or prayer makes that the rapist gets an instant enlightment, it could be, but sincerely, I think that won’t work too much.

      Awareness, truth, and actions based in truths is what will make us free.

      Not delusion nor denial.

      Blessings…

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Victor,

        I don’t pray and meditate for “instant enlightenment” for others, but to send the love that is so obviously needed for someone to kill others with chemical weapons. I pray for clarity for all involved so that the appropriate people are held responsible, if that’s what we choose. I pray for temperament in my own thoughts, words, and actions. I pray for the strength to feel my feelings fully, but to not have them rule me. I don’t believe any of these actions are ineffective, or unnecessary.

        Many can imagine the awful deaths. Can you imagine yourself as the bomber who, following orders, maybe not even having known his plane was filled with chemical weapons, hearing about the pain and suffering of small children caused by what they did? Can you imagine the soldiers who outfitted that plane with chemical weapons hearing the same? Do you believe that they’re unaffected? I pray that they are not. I know that they are human, capable of feelings, and I believe it’s our seeing ourselves as the other that may save us.

        Once again, I see that it’s separation that’s the underlying cause. The moment we determine there is an “us” and a “them,” we make “them” as somehow less—less deserving, less human, and much easier to let starve or kill.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Victor Lopez Rossi

          I deeply respect what you’ve said, Annie. I just would like to understand a little further.

          You say that you don’t pray for the instant enlightment of others -a little joke by my part-, but you do pray that soldiers get affected by their actions or bombers don’t get unaffected, etc.

          I find little difference here, if we look at it. You’d be praying for someone doing something that wouldn’t do in the very first place.

          Soldiers are trained for just killing for the ‘good’ reasons. Or bombing, etc., for ‘good’ reasons. God, motherland, orders, superiors that know better, etc. And of course, if you believe you’re bombing and destroying who you’ve been told is killing babies with chemicals, you as a soldier, will be very ‘glad’ in killing them…

          So, what I notice here is that there is no too much coherence between intentions and means for a result.

          In other terms, Gandhi, or Mandela, or Martin Luther King, didn’t just pray or held spiritual truths. They did something, organized people, organized themselves, presented facts in undeniable ways, confronted who they had to confront -without seeing them as the ‘enemy’-, denounced lies, half truths, manipulations, and all kind of violence from ‘those in charge’.

          I return to my analogy: if you see a rapist trying to rape your daughter, or a neighbour’s daughter, ok, you’re one with the rapist, but ALSO you’ll do something to stop him. Or not?? But if you can’t, because hi escaped after commiting his crime (or won’t you call it a crime?), yes you can pray for you, for the girls, and for the rapist also, but ALSO, you’d try to know who he is, identify him, and to prevent that he could rape again. You’d try to put in jail, and put an end to other such horrible events. Or not?

          But for doing all that, you would have to see the truth. Someone could say that the rapist is your husband, or your brother. And they’re not. But if the rapist has enough power he could implicate any other person. Is that too strange in this world?

          So, the first thing is to find the truth. And after that, to act according to that truth.

          Yes, help us God, for deciding and creating the most enlightened answer or guide for all that.

          But just praying is not enough.

          My oppinion.

          Blessings…

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Victor,

            Truth was the very first thing I mentioned in my original post, if you noticed. It takes time for investigation, fact checking, witness statements.

            If I were to see one human being harming another, I would (and have) physically intervened, but not with more violence. Ive placed myself in between people fighting violently. Gandhi, Mandela and Martin Luther King, Jr. spent a lot of time in solitude, prayer and meditation. I believe it’s what gave them the strength and insight to do what they did. How else do you think they were inspired?

            I’m sure soldiers are brainwashed as to the justifications for their actions. So are we. What I pray for is that they understand the law of cause and effect, and their effect in particular. I send them energetic love because I don’t believe any soldier is completely unaffected by what they do. I base that on the experience of our own soldiers, including an ex who literally did kill women and children in Vietnam.

            I didn’t say I don’t or won’t act. I do, and I am. (BTW, I consider prayer and meditation as actions.) I have my congressmen’s fax numbers and send letters electronically nearly every day. Signed, and with my address, email and phone number. My strongest voice is through writing, but I haven’t quite found the words yet for social media.

            Action doesn’t always mean military action as a response. Violence is a choice. It’s not mine.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            I fully agree with you, Annie.

            If you notice, I have written almost the same as you, just with other words.

            For example, I said, “In other terms, Gandhi, or Mandela, or Martin Luther King, didn’t just pray or held spiritual truths”. In other words, I agree with you that they achieved their inspirations for action, via spiritual means.

            I don’t mean in any way, that violence is the way of action. By the contrary, I’ve written in this very thread, that violence can not heal violence.

            Thank you very much for your inspiring thoughts,

            Blessings.

    • Victor Lopez Rossi

      About this specific topic, I was able to find this article, from 2013. Exactly the same script. Obama failed in achieving a direct intervention. He just could support ISIS/DAESH, as Hillary Clinton and others aknowledged.

      Now, whith a brand new administration, things can start the very same again. Delusion, denial, and forgetfullness, besides the ‘don’t-see-nothing-as-negative-don’t-be-judgeful’ New-Age by-pass thing, will facilitate everything…

      August 27, 2013

      Another Western War Crime In The Making

      by Paul Craig Roberts

      Washington and its British and French puppet governments are poised
      to yet again reveal their criminality. The image of the West as War
      Criminal is not a propaganda image created by the West’s enemies, but
      the portrait that the West has painted of itself.

      The UK Independent reports that over this past week-end Obama,
      Cameron, and Hollande agreed to launch cruise missile attacks against
      the Syrian government within two weeks despite the lack of any
      authorization from the UN and despite the absence of any evidence in
      behalf of Washington’s claim that the Syrian government has used
      chemical weapons against the Washington-backed “rebels”, largely US
      supported external forces, seeking to overthrow the Syrian government.

      Indeed, one reason for the rush to war is to prevent the UN
      inspection that Washington knows would disprove its claim and possibly
      implicate Washington in the false flag attack by the “rebels,” who
      assembled a large number of children into one area to be chemically
      murdered with the blame pinned by Washington on the Syrian government.

      Another reason
      for the rush to war is that Cameron, the UK prime minister, wants to
      get the war going before the British parliament can block him for
      providing cover for Obama’s war crimes the way that Tony Blair provided
      cover for George W. Bush, for which Blair was duly rewarded. What does
      Cameron care about Syrian lives when he can leave office into the
      waiting arms of a $50 million fortune.

      The Syrian government, knowing that it is not responsible for the
      chemical weapons incident, has agreed for the UN to send in chemical
      inspectors to determine the substance used and the method of delivery.
      However, Washington has declared that it is “too late” for UN inspectors
      and that Washington accepts the self-serving claim of the al Qaeda affiliated “rebels” that the Syrian government attacked civilians with chemical weapons.

      In an attempt to prevent the UN chemical inspectors who arrived on the scene from doing their work, the inspectors were fired upon
      by snipers in “rebel” held territory and forced off site, although a
      later report from RT says the inspectors have returned to the site to
      conduct their inspection.

      The corrupt British government has declared that Syria can be
      attacked without UN authorization, just as Serbia and Libya were
      militarily attacked without UN authorization.

      In other words, the Western democracies have already established
      precedents for violating international law. “International law? We don’t
      need no stinking international law!” The West knows only one rule:
      Might is Right. As long as the West has the Might, the West has the
      Right.

      In a response to the news report that the US, UK, and France are
      preparing to attack Syria, the Russian Foreign Minister, Lavrov, said
      that such unilateral action is a “severe violation of international
      law,” and that the violation was not only a legal one but also an
      ethical and moral violation. Lavrov referred to the lies and deception
      used by the West to justify its grave violations of international law in
      military attacks on Serbia, Iraq, and Libya and how the US government
      used preemptive moves to undermine every hope for peaceful settlements
      in Iraq, Libya, and Syria.

      Once again Washington has preempted any hope of peaceful settlement.
      By announcing the forthcoming attack, the US destroyed any incentive for
      the “rebels” to participate in the peace talks with the Syrian
      government. On the verge of these talks taking place, the “rebels” now
      have no incentive to participate as the West’s military is coming to
      their aid.

      In his press conference Lavrov spoke of how the ruling parties in the
      US, UK, and France stir up emotions among poorly informed people that,
      once aroused, have to be satisfied by war. This, of course, is the way
      the US manipulated the public in order to attack Afghanistan and Iraq.
      But the American public is tired of the wars, the goal of which is never
      made clear, and has grown suspicious of the government’s justifications
      for more wars.

      A Reuters/Ipsos poll finds
      that “Americans strongly oppose U.S. intervention in Syria’s civil war
      and believe Washington should stay out of the conflict even if reports
      that Syria’s government used deadly chemicals to attack civilians are
      confirmed.” However, Obama could not care less that only 9 percent of
      the public supports his warmongering. As former president Jimmy Carter
      recently stated,
      “America has no functioning democracy.” It has a police state in which
      the executive branch has placed itself above all law and the
      Constitution.

      This police state is now going to commit yet another Nazi-style war
      crime of unprovoked aggression. At Nuremberg the Nazis were sentenced to
      death for precisely the identical actions being committed by Obama,
      Cameron, and Hollande. The West is banking on might, not right, to keep
      it out of the criminal dock.

      The US, UK, and French governments have not explained why it matters
      whether people in the wars initiated by the West are killed by
      explosives made of depleted uranium or with chemical agents or any other
      weapon. It was obvious from the beginning that Obama was setting up the
      Syrian government for attack. Obama demonized chemical weapons–but not
      nuclear “bunker busters” that the US might use on Iran. Then Obama drew a
      red line, saying that the use of chemical weapons by the Syrians was
      such a great crime that the West would be obliged to attack Syria.
      Washington’s UK puppets, William Hague and Cameron, have just repeated
      this nonsensical claim. The final step in the frame-up was to orchestrate a chemical incident and blame the Syrian government.

      What is the West’s real agenda? This is the unasked and unanswered
      question. Clearly, the US, UK, and French governments, which have
      displayed continuously their support for dictatorial regimes that serve
      their purposes, are not the least disturbed by dictatorships. They brand
      Assad a dictator as a means of demonizing him for the ill-informed
      Western masses. But Washington, UK, and France support any number of
      dictatorial regimes, such as the ones in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and now
      the military dictatorship in Egypt that is ruthlessly killing Egyptians
      without any Western government speaking of invading Egypt for “killing
      its own people.”

      Clearly also, the forthcoming Western attack on Syria has nothing
      whatsoever to do with bringing “freedom and democracy” to Syria any more
      than freedom and democracy were reasons for the attacks on Iraq and
      Libya, neither of which gained any “freedom and democracy.”

      The Western attack on Syria is unrelated to human rights, justice or
      any of the high sounding causes with which the West cloaks its
      criminality.

      The Western media, and least of all the American presstitutes, never
      ask Obama, Cameron, or Hollande what the real agenda is. It is difficult
      to believe than any reporter is sufficiently stupid or gullible to
      believe that the agenda is bringing “freedom and democracy” to Syria or
      punishing Assad for allegedly using chemical weapons against murderous
      thugs trying to overthrow the Syrian government.

      Of course, the question wouldn’t be answered if asked. But the act of
      asking it would help make the public aware that more is afoot than
      meets the eye. Originally, the excuse for Washington’s wars was to keep
      Americans safe from terrorists. Now Washington is endeavoring to turn
      Syria over to jihad terrorists by helping them to overthrow the secular,
      non-terrorist Assad government. What is the agenda behind Washington’s
      support of terrorism?

      Perhaps the purpose of the wars is to radicalize Muslims and,
      thereby, destabilize Russia and even China. Russia has large populations
      of Muslims and is bordered by Muslim countries. Even China has some
      Muslim population. As radicalization spreads strife into the only two
      countries capable of being an obstacle to Washington’s world hegemony,
      Western media propaganda and the large number of US financed NGOs,
      posing as “human rights” organizations, can be counted on by Washington
      to demonize the Russian and Chinese governments for harsh measures
      against “rebels.”

      Another advantage of the radicalization of Muslims is that it leaves
      former Muslim countries in long-term turmoil or civil wars, as is
      currently the case in Iraq and Libya, thus removing any organized state
      power from obstructing Israeli purposes.

      Secretary of State John Kerry is working the phones using bribes and
      threats to build acceptance, if not support, for Washington’s war
      crime-in-the-making against Syria.

      Washington is driving the world closer to nuclear war than it ever
      was even in the most dangerous periods of the Cold War. When Washington
      finishes with Syria, the next target is Iran. Russia and China will no
      longer be able to fool themselves that there is any system of
      international law or restraint on Western criminality. Western
      aggression is already forcing both countries to develop their strategic
      nuclear forces and to curtail the Western-financed NGOs that pose as
      “human rights organizations,” but in reality comprise a fifth column
      that Washington can use to destroy the legitimacy of the Russian and
      Chinese governments.

      Russia and China have been extremely careless in their dealings with
      the United States. Essentially, the Russian political opposition is
      financed by Washington. Even the Chinese government is being undermined.
      When a US corporation opens a company in China, it creates a Chinese
      board on which are put relatives of the local political authorities.
      These boards create a conduit for payments that influence the decisions
      and loyalties of local and regional party members. The US has penetrated
      Chinese universities and intellectual attitudes. The Rockefeller
      University is active in China as is Rockefeller philanthropy. Dissenting
      voices are being created that are arrayed against the Chinese
      government. Demands for “liberalization” can resurrect regional and
      ethnic differences and undermine the cohesiveness of the national
      government.

      Once Russia and China realize that they are riven with American fifth
      columns, isolated diplomatically, and outgunned militarily, nuclear
      weapons become the only guarantor of their sovereignty. This suggests
      that nuclear war is likely to terminate humanity well before humanity
      succumbs to global warming or rising national debts.

      Update:

      The war criminals in Washington and other Western capitals are
      determined to maintain their lie that the Syrian government used
      chemical weapons. Having failed in efforts to intimidate the UN
      chemical inspectors in Syria, Washington has demanded that UN Secretary
      General Ban Ki-moon withdraw the chemical weapons inspectors before they
      can assess the evidence and make their report. The UN Secretary
      General stood up to the Washington war criminals and rejected their demand.

      The US and UK governments have revealed none of the “conclusive
      evidence” they claim to have that the Syrian government used chemical
      weapons. Listening to their voices, observing their body language, and
      looking into their eyes, it is completely obvious that John Kerry and
      his British and German puppets are lying through their teeth. This is a
      far more shameful situation than the massive lies that former Secretary
      of State Colin Powell told the UN about Iraqi weapons of mass
      destruction. Colin Powell claims that he was deceived by the White
      House and did not know that he was lying. Kerry and the British,
      French, and German puppets know full well that they are lying.

      The face that the West presents to the world is the brazen face of a liar.

      Paul Craig Roberts is a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. His latest book The Failure of Laissez-Faire Capitalism. Roberts’ How the Economy Was Lost is now available from CounterPunch in electronic format.

      • mewabe

        Thanks for posting this victor!

  • Charles

    “A delicate response that cannot be responded to by one person alone.”
    We cannot achieve anything worthwhile alone unless our only goal is to change ourselves. “The only thing we can change is ourselves” is not totally true. Every time we share a thought or create an action we take a risk of changing somebody elses view of the world or maybe themselves. Paying attention to others is how we have become who we are, changing our thoughts based on someone elses opinions and actions. A worthwhile conversation cannot be had alone. Many conversations in this place are conversations with another to try and tweak the way a person is thinking about something, to change the way a person is thinking spiritually. Anti-CWG, Pro-CWG, God exists, god doesn’t exist, life after death, energy after death, awareness after death, anything after death, no death at all. Facts are facts, theories are facts, beliefs are facts, everything we know is a fact, we are people trying to make sense of it all and that’s a fact. Prove it!

    We all agree that there is something going perfectly wrong in our world in the midst of a life where nothing is wrong or right and everything is happening perfectly because it just does. I am not in a spirit state, I am in a physical state, arguing with a trilogy of mind, body and soul. I have found no perfection in that argument, only a need for conversation and actions that “I” view as correct. I do not view war as correct. I am not insulted by a chemical attack any more than any other means of needless killing.

    The world is arguing which way is best to kill another human and not arguing that the killing itself is wrong. There is something wrong with that!!

    • mewabe

      Yes, there is apparently a correct, civilized way to blow people to pieces (including women, children and babies), such as with drones and cluster bombs, or to vaporize them as with nuclear weapons…or kill them slowly and horribly, as with white phosphorus…or deform their babies and children, as with depleted uranium. But poison gas is a no no…that’s very naughty. That is not civilized!

      Torture however is civilized, because we civilized people say so. And so is the death penalty, this glorified form of revenge in which we, civilized people, engage as well.

      And polluting the environment with deadly chemicals that kill people and animals slowly (more or less) is civilized as well, I almost forgot.

      • Victor Lopez Rossi

        Oh Mewabe!

        Why are you so judgmental, negative, lier, biased, and sarcastic?

        You’re not a spiritual man, surely.

        Why don’t you see that all you’ve mentioned is perfect, good, and beautiful?

        Why are you so judgmental with whom ” blow people to pieces (including women and children), such as with
        drones and cluster bombs, or to vaporize them with nuclear weapons…or
        kill them slowly and horribly, with white phosphorus…or deform their
        babies and children, with depleted uranium”, etc…? Don’t you see that you’re impulsing an ‘us vs. them’ mindset?? Man! See the perfection! There’s nothing bad nor evil in all this.

        Ahh! Just except in what corporate press says. That is bad, very bad indeed!

        If corporate press says that Al Assad bombed his own people with chemicals killing babies and women, that is bad, very bad!, and we better do ‘something’ about it… Something as bombing them with ‘humanitarian bombs’ two days after corporate press said what they said. Just because we say so.

        No matter that corporate press and his owners lied before with similar alledgments: Irak, Afghanistan, Lybia. No, those were simple, innocent mistakes. But mistakes that were very good in the long term! because we terminated Saddam Hussein and gave back democracy and freedom to those countries! Praise the Lord!

        So be spiritual, man! Don’t see as truth nothing of what you say. That’s just illusion.

        Al Assad bombing babies, oh!, that’s not an illusion at all, that’s the pure truth! And if we bomb him and many die from ‘collateral damage’, so be it!, those souls agreed to die for it. All is good.

        Except what WE say IS bad.

        • mewabe

          Ha ha…yes, I am the devil (everybody else is God, I like to be different)…for refusing to go where the propagandized populace is told to go, straight to supporting another “righteous” war!
          Can you believe the mainstream media bovine excrement comments about Trump’s actions?
          “Beautiful”
          “Decisive”
          “There’s a new sheriff in town”
          “Bold”
          “Presidential”
          I don’t watch television or any of the corporate media, because I do not want to regurgitate my meals. Do you have access to TYT on the internet? You might like it…

          • Rainbow Shell

            lol I think God is part devil :))

          • mewabe

            I can live with that! 🙂

          • Rainbow Shell

            me, too :))

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Thanks for the head’s up on TYT. It’s on YouTube.

          • Kirsten

            Hahahaha.
            You evil monster.
            Xx

  • According to CwG book 4 The biggest distinction between our current world & that of HEB’s (Highly Evolved Beings) is there is absolutely no violence of any kind. None.

    • Rainbow Shell

      IT’s interesting that you say this, Marko. This is something I am trying to understand, too. In the new book, Neale asked about the Invitation and God began talking about HEB’s being near us on our level to help and he said that they engage in our physical realm, sending thoughts and interacting and my point is how do they avoid engagement with the violence as they help us. . is it an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth or something else and they are invisible or what. .I wonder how they do what they do to help in this physical realm avoid violence and catastrophe hmmm

      • My understanding is, that they engage most by inspiring thoughts to us. They can put it out into the collective unconsciousness/consciousness & when we are receptive, we pick up the radio signals so to speak.

        • Patrick Gannon

          Neale referred to Einstein in his column, and Einstein contributed to our understanding of particle physics and how forces and particles work in our natural world.

          Until these HEBs explain how they manage to affect the particles in our heads – which would be required to provide “inspiring thoughts,” then this can be nothing but woo. The brain is not a radio receiver, so to speak, or we would know that by now. We know what it takes to manipulate particles in order to fire synapses and generate thoughts. There are no such fields. This is woo. Quantum mechanics deals in probabilities, and as I understand it, QM tells us that the probability of these woo forces existing is about the same as having a pink polka dotted dinosaur manifesting in your living room this evening. Don’t wait up.

          The idea is so outrageous, and having nothing to support it, that the one making the claim must provide the evidence, or they should not be taken seriously.

          • Then don’t take him so seriously……… 🙂

          • Patrick Gannon

            I don’t, though it’s clear others do.

            I’m unsure as to whether he’s a scoundrel who found an interesting way to make a career for himself, or simply deluded. His success leads me to think he believes in his conversations with himself, and belief is contagious. It’s easier to sell something you believe in. For me to sell this HEB stuff, I’d have to have some evidence, and would ask God for some. I haven’t read the book – did he ask his god for evidence?

  • Awareness

    Thank you Neale Donald Walsch for bringing this up again 🙂

    There is indeed a spiritual solution to Syria and every other thing 🙂

    I remember 4 years ago I made the following comment in response to your article (dated August 27, 2013) titled “HUMANITY: THE IMPOTENT SPECIES“:

    I wrote “I hear you Neale Donald Walsch and I am sure GOD (GREAT SPIRIT!) has heard you too 🙂 Thank you for bringing this up 🙂

    Bless ALL :)”

    I am responding again 🙂

    It is important for all not to jump to any conclusions in reaction to any event 🙂 All sides must seek to know first with integrity 🙂

    And a reminder:

    “Every conclusion you come to about the Illusion is, there­fore, based on the Illusion. And so, every conclusion is an il­lusion.
    Let this be your new insight and your constant reminder:
    Every conclusion is an illusion.” – “Communion with God” by Neale Donald Walsch 🙂

    The spiritual “solution” brings us back to the approach you took the last time in your article titled “IT IS TIME NOW TO PRAY. ALL TOGETHER AND FOR THE SAME THING.” (dated August 31, 2013). Below is an excerpt of the approach you took and it worked 🙂

    “Members of the vast spiritual communities that are spread across our planet are asking today: What can we do? In the face of the possibility of this latest and seemingly never-ending use of violence in the name of bringing an end to violence, what can we do?

    The answer is that we now have to use, intently and with passionate and mighty focus, the most powerful force in the Universe — a force more powerful, even, than all the missiles and all the bombs and all the chemical weapons in all the arsenals of all the military establishments of all the governments of the world.
    Prayer.

    Prayer is intentioned Thought, and Thought is one of the Three Tools of Creation given to us by our Creator. Those tools are: Thought, Word, and Deed. Of these, Thought is the most powerful, because Thought is the least physical. Therefore it is the least dense, and thus the most far reaching, permeating all physical bodies, barriers and constructions.

    I believe the prayer of the day should be that Congress votes against a military intervention — even a limited, air-power-only intervention — by the United States. The reasons for my belief are found in the lengthier commentary in the news article to the lower left of this website’s Home Page, under the column title Interpreting Conversations with God.

    I hope you will read that article at once, and then I hope you will join me and Marianne Williamson in the Global Collective Prayer Initiative, Monday, September 2, at 16:00 GMT (that is 9 a.m. Pacific Time). We will pray solidly and intentionally for ten minutes that the U.S. will not launch air strikes on Syria, and that the larger Syrian conflict may end, at last, with peace and harmony prevailing.” – Neale Donald Walsch 🙂

    Why not again?

    🙂

    And here is the evidence that this approach works according to the following quote from Dr. John Hagelin’s website permanentpeace(dot)org:

    What’s the Evidence?

    The power of peace-creating groups to decrease warfare and terrorism has been tested repeatedly. The results produced by temporary peace-creating groups (lasting weeks or months) have been consistently positive—with nearly immediate reductions in war deaths averaging better than 70%. In addition, the one peace-creating assembly that lasted for several years was accompanied by a history-transforming wave of peace around the world. Most of these studies have been carefully scrutinized by independent scholars, then accepted for publication in mainstream academic journals.

    Reduced warfare in Lebanon: During days of high attendance at a group of peace-creating experts in Jerusalem, war deaths in neighboring Lebanon decreased by 76%. Increases in attendance at the peace-creating group also correlated strongly with reduced crime, traffic accidents, and fires, and with improved economic indicators.

    Replication on warfare in Lebanon: During seven different peace-creating assemblies—in a two-year study of the nearly continuous fighting in Lebanon during the mid-1980s—war deaths decreased by an average of 71%. Some of these assemblies were large (7-8,000 peace-creating experts) and distant (as far away as Fairfield, Iowa, USA)—indicating that the peace-creating effect can radiate worldwide.

    Reduced worldwide terrorism: During the three largest peace-creating assemblies ever held in the West, statistics provided by the Rand Corporation showed a 72% reduction in worldwide terrorism.

    Wave of global peace: During the one large peace-creating assembly (8,000 experts) that continued for several years (1988-90), major conflicts in the world all came to an end—including the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, a seven-year war between Iran and Iraq that had killed millions, and, most notably and unexpectedly, the Soviet-American Cold War that had threatened the world with nuclear annihilation for forty years.

    Scientific acceptance: Time after time, independent scholars have judged this research to be sound. These scholars have been impressed because the findings have been often repeated, based on open public data that other researchers can check, with strong correlations between peace-creating attendance and reduced social violence, lead-lag analysis supporting a causal interpretation, and alternate possible explanations ruled out.” – permanentpeace(dot)org 🙂

    “Today we urgently need a new, more fundamental approach to peace that can neutralize the very basis of terrorism and war.” – John Hagelin, PhD, President, Global Union of Scientists for Peace 🙂

    “I think this research evidence on a new approach to peace, and the theory that informs it, deserve the most serious consideration by academics, policy makers and concerned citizens alike.” – David Edwards, PhD, Professor of Government, University of Texas (Austin) 🙂

    “In the studies that I have examined on [peace-creating groups], I can find no methodological flaws, and the findings have been consistent across a large number of replications. As unlikely as the premise may sound, I think we have to take these studies seriously.” – Ted Robert Gurr, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Government and Politics University of Maryland 🙂

    “I have been following the research on peace-creating groups as it has developed over the last twenty years. There is now a strong and consistent body of evidence showing that this innovative approach provides a simple and cost-effective solution to many of the social problems we face today. In my view, this research is so strong that it demands action from those responsible for government policy.” – Huw Dixon, Ph.D. Professor of Economics, York University, England

    “The glory of Transcendental Consciousness can be experienced directly and recognized as the ultimate reality. The mind can be led systematically to the subtlest limit of relative experience and then, transcending this subtlest experience of the excited states of creation, it can reach the field of the ultimate, absolute, unmanifest state of least excitation—the unified field of all the laws of nature.” – Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Founder Transcendental Meditation program

    The stuff of the world is mind-stuff.” – Sir Arthur Eddington, First physicist to verify Einstein’s general theory of relativity 🙂

    Bless ALL 🙂

  • Charles

    I have taken small clips from most who posted (sorry if i missed you) below to form a message that makes sense to me anyway. While it could be tweaked to make it flow better, untouched just seems more fun. Some may enjoy it, it’s entirely random and in order of newest post at the bottom older at the top…

    As a human, this is very hard words to put down. But I also know, from another point of view, it is the truth.

    The suffering that we see in the world is the creation of fear, which is the direct product of the thought and experience of separation.

    There’s always a chance the world could awaken and we would not need to be faced with such questions.

    A collective effort to not use violence and persue killing ,a decision based on ENOUGH of the waste of life ,on the observation that it’s not WORKING to create a world we all say we want to live in.

    Awareness, truth, and actions based in truths is what will make us free.

    The biggest distinction between our current world & that of HEB’s (Highly Evolved Beings) is there is absolutely no violence of any kind. None.

    In each case, I would choose unconditional love and compassion. Always.

    “A delicate response that cannot be responded to by one person alone.”

    “IT IS TIME NOW TO PRAY. ALL TOGETHER AND FOR THE SAME THING.”

    • Rainbow Shell

      cool! I would add a line cuz you missed me 🙂 right after “Awareness, truth, and actions based in truths is what will make us free.” like this:

      Truth. . Eternal Truth is different from the relative truths used to create random violence and killings of any kind. Every faction expressing violence thinks they act in a version of what is “true” for them, but is it really Eternally True. What we need to pray for is an Eternal Truth that expresses through all praying.

      • Charles

        The whole purpose was to show even the slightest of messages when everyone’s thoughts are combined. Can you imagine what the energy of prayer must sound like if we could hear it? Adding our thoughts after the fact doesn’t have the same effect. I could not find your post that responded to Neales post above. It wasn’t easy to keep it all organized going up and down and reading too. The longest posts are usually the thoughts of people responding to Neales topic.

        • Rainbow Shell

          It just seemed like fun, like a renga. .a poem where everybody adds a line and I just added one 🙂

          • Charles

            And it was wonderful.

          • Rainbow Shell

            you’re welcome :))

    • Rainbow Shell

      I forgot to mention my favorite part of your post. .the prayer part. everyone here could pray as they read and then see if we can lift light to syria and all love from t..well..call me spidey-t or spidey-b and I’ll link my line of light to ya and all here for the light from here to the core of the earth where I prayed today with a powerful golden bee energy damn it was powerful for me anyhoo. I could see the light at the core of the earth radiate outward. ..it kinda got stuck at a certain level and I got a message to stop right away. .it was happening too fast. .prayer is weird. it’s got to be timed just right. I’m all for focused prayer. We did it before. I was on that call when was it 2011 or 2012. It was Powerful with a capital. .all caps for emphasis… .

      • Charles

        The prayer part belongs to awareness. Be careful with that nuclear prayer stuff, sounds like you almost exploded the earth with a golden bee bomb! It got stuck at a layer of rock in the earth untouched by fracking. Direct it towards the ring of fire next time, it penetrates deep and the energy will flow out better for you. Again be very careful. That area is already plagued with earthquakes. All caps for sure…POWERFUL!

        • Rainbow Shell

          is fracking the same as a fractal? what is it exactly?

          • Charles

            You sound awesomely blessed! I love being in some earthquakes. Living next to a railroad track is a lot like having many mini earthquakes, like being on drugs without the drugs.

          • Rainbow Shell

            I am 🙂 there is a blessing in a curve of every golden arcing track, especially the kind that steam engines full ahead without ricocheting needles and spoons or mini earthquakes through parks next to all railroad tracks.

          • Charles

            I have yet to witness the ricocheting of any items, But a steam engine did pass by full steam ahead and blew its horn all the way through the area. I think the spoons and needles are scarce enough that they remain in the hands of those who don’t feel earthquakes mini or many. As scarce as they are there seems to be too many. No parks, yet it’s funny when a train passes the whole town parks.

          • Rainbow Shell

            i used to live next to tracks in college. .the park behind my house had a festering of needles I found one day next to playground..used to paint and draw there, always loved the hot sun beaming there but couldn’t stick to that town…sound of the train passing through always too loud

          • Charles

            The other side of the tracks is traditionally run down here. The train isn’t as bad as it’s horn which should be against the law. I do actually enjoy the gentle shaking. I’m looking forward to paying all of this off, selling it and moving out of town. I prefer neighbors I can’t see from my driveway. The town supports me well as I have many customers but I’d still rather be… out there. Some think I already am.

          • Rainbow Shell

            The other side of the tracks are usually that way everywhere, aren’t they. I don’t mind the horn as long as it’s Sunday. Used to live in a old house near the tracks. There was a nice sepia colored mold stain on the ceiling. . looked just like a Daumier painting lol old claw bathtub in the backyard. you get the picture. .college days. whew at any rate, i’m out there, too, and no customers to boot 🙂

          • Charles

            Sounds wonderful! I don’t mind the horn as long as it’s not am or pm. Mold stains add character anyway and like snowflakes, each one is different!! Clawfoot tubs are going from 300 to 3000 depending on the person selling it. they do add a little to a bathroom… or a backyard.

          • Rainbow Shell

            that class act bathtub in backyard added character and made for some good black and white photography. The horn is nice if it’s not right in my backyard, so to speak

          • Charles

            As for the other side of the tracks everywhere, No. People here on the other side of the tracks say that the other side of the tracks look pretty good.

          • Rainbow Shell

            it’s always that way on the other side of town.. tracks are always looking greener on the other side of the track

          • Charles

            It’s funny isn’t it? We are always looking somewhere else and deciding that it’s better than where we are. I’ve heard the grass is greenest over the septic tank. There is a lot of truth in that. Regardless of the color of the grass or the weeds the same soil is there waiting for us to make it what we wish. The grass can be green wherever we are, if we choose to care enough to make it green… or greener.

          • Rainbow Shell

            of course, it’s always green where we are if we learn to tip toe through the marshland where the greenest grass grows…don’t step on a septic tank..those things leak and oooh marshland is always green and growing over the septic tank though I prefer not having to look at them. would rather not have them at all and just water the grass myself. It’s much prettier 🙂

  • From Dennis Kucinich
    There has been a rush to judgment over the origin of the chemical weapon attack in Idlib, Syria. Conclusions were drawn with no investigation, no gathering of evidence, no forensics, no independent international inquiry, only charges followed by military action. It is extraordinary that when anyone so much as asks for an investigation they are attacked politically. When a verdict is arrived at without facts how can we be sure?

    Consider what happened in Ghouta, Syria in 2013. A chemical weapon attack killed nearly 1,000 people. The finger was pointed immediately at the Assad government. But an on-the-ground, at- the-site investigation revealed something quite different.

    Reese Ehrlich, in his 2014 work, “Inside Syria,” writes: “. . . if UN inspector Sellstrom, as well as professors from MIT and Tesla Labs, are correct on the rocket trajectory, the rockets were fired from areas very near to or under rebel control.”

    Since the world may be moving close to a wider war precipitated by the gas attack at Idlib, it would behoove world leaders to investigate the source of the attack. That is, if facts even matter in the current environment.

    • mewabe

      Right on. Bull’s eye!
      Facts do not matter because the agenda of “regime change” in Syria was formulated almost 2 decades ago. Next will be Iran, and a “terrible event” will ever be lied about, caused or exploited to drive the American public into a proper emotional frenzy of blood lust to justify an aggression against that nation, which has also been on the same Neocon imperialist list for “regime change” for just as long.

      • I do think there is responsible mainstream media coverage & have seen it & witnessed it. That said, they certainly went for the Iraq war & that was horrible.

        • mewabe

          Responsible mainstream media coverage is as rare as Big Foot sightings…but it might exist…the exception that confirms the rule!

      • Victor Lopez Rossi

        And please don’t forget South AMERICA also…

        Venezuela specially is under this very kind of media attacks, particularly now. Bolivia, Ecuador, and others too.

        Please don’t forget that Venezuela has the largest certified oil reserves in the world. And has policies that differs deeply from Washington and the global mainstream.

        A very good candidate for false flags attacks, economic hit men, and etc.

    • Victor Lopez Rossi

      I’m very glad that this oppinion was permitted here.

      I quoted something very similar but its current state is still “Hold on, this is waiting to be approved by The Global conversation”

  • Sam

    This quote (thank you, Awareness):
    “Enlightenment is understanding that there is nowhere to go, nothing to do, and nobody you have to be except exactly who you’re being right now. You are on a journey to nowhere.”

    It can look a little cruel. About Syria, etc., the enlightened one couldn’t care less. Doing nothing whatsoever—not even a give it a thought—seem to be preferred. And I wonder if there is something with the human dimension that will create negativity no matter what, just by participating. If we all go together and pray/meditate for peace, in Syria, then what is the underlying thought? Of course, that something bad is going on. So, this is what the universe is picking up from us: Something bad is going on, something bad is going on, something bad is going on. And so, we are the ones who create that something bad is going on. I am not sure that we, as humans, can ever stop creating exactly what we want to stop. In a physical world this seems to be irrevocably linked together.

    • Charles

      Hi Sam, I get your point I think. Humanity would like to stop war from happening. Humanity is saddened by acts of war and the majority of humanity would agree, even those in charge of the attacks. What action or thought could stop that which we call bad from occurring in the future? I’m trying to not sound insulting but are you suggesting humanity quit thinking about all that we see as bad regardless of what is going on all around us,to ignore that which we call bad, and that by doing so the bad will go away on it’s own? Or will humanity just become accepting of such acts as that in Syria by changing its thought about it?

      • Sam

        “What action or thought could stop that which we call bad from occurring in the future?”

        We have to let go, and have peace with it, no matter what, or we become an amplifier for bad, thinking about it, making it crystal clear and real.

        But, unless living in a closed off cave, with no distractions, I’ll say it’s impossible. We can’t help ourselves having motions, act on them, and have consequences. And, I think it’s supposed to be like that, in the making of a road to walk, making yourself acquainted with a lot of experience.

        For progress, there are no wrong turns, experience leads to wisdom — eventually.

        • mewabe

          Rather than doing nothing, in any challenging situation I think we can choose to have peace with it, and rather than acting on emotions (mostly stirred up by the lies of the hysterical mainstream media, without which we would not know what is happening on the other side of the globe), we can act from that inner space of peace.

          Acting on emotions such as anger or fear usually gets us in trouble…the peaceful warrior is a person who lets go of the outcome but still does what needs being done, from peace and love rather than inner emotional turmoil.

          • Sam

            Action and peace are opposites. One can’t act in peace.

          • mewabe

            Do you actually believe this? Then you haven’t reached peace! Peace comes from the mind…action is calm, clear, simple and decisive when coming from a peaceful mind.

          • Sam

            Peace is motionless. Something other than that, and you are fooling yourself.

          • mewabe

            immobility and peace are two different things. But then I see what we disagree again, and I don’t want to get into a debate…whatever works for you!

          • Sam

            “immobility and peace are two different things.”

            Still, one can’t act from that inner space of peace. It’s a contradiction.

          • mewabe

            Peace does not mean immobility but an absence of conflict. Conflicts arise in the mind…a peaceful mind, a non-conflicted mind, is not a dead (immobile) mind.

            First example: I was once literally grabbed by a powerful wave while surfing in Redondo Beach and dragged away from the shore to the bottom for quite a while, tossed like a cork at the bottom, before being thrown back towards the surface…quite a lot of action. Where was my mind? completely at peace…without fear whatsoever. I did not resist or struggle, and because my mind was calm and peaceful and I went with it, I didn’t get hurt or even out of breath. I did not get a “rush” out of it either…I was calm throughout.

            Second example: I was once hiking (I never carry any sort of weapon or spray or anything with me while hiking) in a dense forest in Oregon, and met a mother black bear with two cubs, from behind a large tree…they were very close, about 20 feet. Every hiker’s nightmare, so they say. The two cubs immediately climbed the nearest trees, while the mother stood on her back legs looking and sounding very confrontational. A lot of action…Where was my mind? Completely at peace. I sat down on the ground, sideways in order not to look at her directly while she was still acting and sounding upset, and began sending them reassuring thoughts, such as that they had nothing to fear from me (I also softly sung a Native American song that had to do with bears…). Within a few minutes, the mother was clam, the two cubs came down, and they went on their way.

            I have also calmed down a mountain lion on another occasion, as well as a charging doberman…and I also calmed down a carjacker in LA…I was driving a porsche at the time (I can’t believe it either!) and he definitively wanted it…I did not respond to his threats and his weapon but looked straight at him and remained totally calm…because I have a peaceful mind and heart. Whether my body is in motion or not makes no differences…no inner conflict, a sense of unity and kinship with all life and love are the keys to peace and fearlessness!

          • Rainbow Shell

            wow :)) I love the bear story. .I can see you singing to the bears in the forest. the bear, a mother bear and her cubs are a pack, and the mother is very cautious about her baby. It is cool that you were able to sing to them and ease the tension ;)) now sing to syria :))

          • mewabe

            Thanks, I’ll try :))

          • Rainbow Shell

            I’ll try, too :)) with a little adele in the background or my favorite yeha noha. ..that always works :))

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Wonderful, mewabe, my friend!

            I have also calmed animals with my inner peace, but most often the human kind. The younger, the more easily it’s done, but I’m also adept at stopping drunks from getting into fistfights.

            I managed to not be gang raped after being lured to a dorm room when I was much younger. How? I calmly insulted the strongest until he kicked me out. It was the first time it felt like calm descended on me and surrounded me rather than dissociating or freaking out or having to seek it first. (I had already been meditating for a few years.)

            My best friend used to call me when she was upset. She told me she didn’t even need to talk about why she was upset. It was the mere sound of my voice that calmed her, she said. I believe it was the loving energy I feel towards her (yes, even now after she’s passed over).

            Inner peace and unconditional love are vibrations that can be felt, and have an effect.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • mewabe

            Thanks Annie…you are amazing and have achieved so much on your healing journey! I hope you are working on your book, it will be an inspiration for many…

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Unfortunately, I have had to spend my time with other matters. But it’s growing into something more that hasn’t quite taken shape in my brain yet. More hands-on help along with the inspiration. 😉

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Sam

            “Peace does not mean immobility but an absence of conflict.”

            Peace has the effect immobility, or it isn’t peace. Any movement needs motivation, and peace has none. Peace are either way, but in the middle resting, not moving.

            “Conflicts arise in the mind…a peaceful mind, a non-conflicted mind, is not a dead (immobile) mind.”

            Conflicts comes from motions. What you attached to thoughts. Thoughts without attachments is peace. Far from dead.

            “First example: I was once literally grabbed by a powerful wave while surfing in Redondo Beach and dragged away from the shore to the bottom for quite a while, tossed like a cork at the bottom, before being thrown back towards the surface…quite a lot of action. Where was my mind? completely at peace…without fear whatsoever. I did not resist or struggle, and because my mind was calm and peaceful and I went with it, I didn’t get hurt or even out of breath. I did not get a “rush” out of it either…I was calm throughout.”

            And many stories like it. You go beside yourself, or outside yourself, so to speak, and let things go as they may, and have peace. I’ve been there myself. What should be the disagreement?

          • mewabe

            Again, movement does not mean an absence of peace. Motion does not mean conflict. Conflict comes from resistance (mind resistance). Without resistance, there is no conflict, and there is peace.

            You need to look into Taoism to understand what I mean.

          • Sam

            “Again, movement does not mean an absence of peace.”

            Peace has no motivation—exactly the opposite—it can’t move anything, and shouldn’t, or else you won’t have peace.

            “Motion does not mean conflict.”

            Motion does not mean conflict, but conflict comes from motions. I hope you see the difference.

            “Conflict comes from resistance (mind resistance). Without resistance, there is no conflict, and there is peace.”

            Well, yes, and with other words, just let go.

          • mewabe

            “Peace has no motivation.”

            Do you have a belief in some sort of divine source or something of that nature, a creative source?

            If you do, would you say that one of the characteristics of this source’s ultimate nature is absolute, perfect peace?

            And yet this source created the universe, if this is something you believe. Would you say it had no motivation in such a creation? That it could not or should not move anything, or else it was not at peace?

            Would you say that this source, by whatever name you know it, is no longer at peace because it is now the ultimate cause behind all movements, all life, all motions?

            Again, we disagree…but I am at peace with that.

          • Sam

            You say God and peace is the same thing? I say God, as you and me, can choose to be at peace or not. Well, we humans need a little more practice, I reckon 🙂

            “Again, we disagree…but I am at peace with that.”

            Somewhat 😉

          • mewabe

            Completely!
            On another note, where are you located on the planet? Just curious…

          • Sam

            Haha, “I reckon”? 🙂
            I am from, and live in Scandinavia. My girlfriend, well, a lil on and off, lives in Florida. A loooong distance relationship. I pick up some words 🙂 Btw, she is a Trump fan and very stubborn. Kill me now 🙂

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Sam,

            I have to disagree. First, I don’t think one must be sitting motionless in the lotus position emptying one’s mind of thoughts to be at peace. I feel peaceful watching a sunset as I walk down the street. I feel peaceful watching a newborn child. I feel peaceful while doing chores around the house.

            After I meditate, that inner peace stays with me afterwards, for varying amounts of time. But, while it lasts, everything I do is action from that peace, whether it’s taking out the trash or paying the bills or talking with a friend or posting here. I’m acting from peace for as long as that peace lasts, and when it stops, I do what I can to regain it.

            Yes, emotions move us. They can also be understood and accepted, not allowing them to rule our actions. And who’s ruled out feeling peaceful as an emotion that can also move us? I haven’t.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Sam

            “First, I don’t think one must be sitting motionless in the lotus position emptying one’s mind of thoughts to be at peace. I feel peaceful watching a sunset as I walk down the street. I feel peaceful watching a newborn child. I feel peaceful while doing chores around the house.”

            Good for you, and of course.

            “After I meditate, that inner peace stays with me afterwards, for varying amounts of time. But, while it lasts, everything I do is action from that peace, whether it’s taking out the trash or paying the bills or talking with a friend or posting here. I’m acting from peace for as long as that peace lasts, and when it stops, I do what I can to regain it.”

            Yes, I think even assassins make use of this technique. It can be effective.

            “Yes, emotions move us. They can also be understood and accepted, not allowing them to rule our actions.”

            All actions are from either love or fear; emotions.

            “And who’s ruled out feeling peaceful as an emotion that can also move us? I haven’t.”

            I do.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            You never feel peaceful? Feelings=Emotions.

          • Sam

            Good question. It’s an expression which for me isn’t quite true. I am peaceful, is how I would express it. Free from emotions/commotions.

          • Rainbow Shell

            the body at peace is motionless, but is the mind at peace motionless? I’m thinking of meditating. .in those moments of peace, my mind is not completely still…there are moments of peace where I leave the body during meditation but the mind is somewhere else in motion, at least for me

          • Sam

            Thoughts are not moving, only changing. What moves you are feelings.

          • Rainbow Shell

            change is motion, isn’t it?

          • Sam

            In the physical world, change has the illusion motion.

          • Rainbow Shell

            I don’t get it. If something is changing in a physical world, it is in motion isn’t it. If not, why not. please elaborate

          • Rainbow Shell

            what’s the velocity of a thought in motion, depends upon how many are of the light countering how many from how many differing sources that aren’t, so it is sometimes feeling like it is not moving but it is

          • Sam

            Too complicated for me 🙂

          • Rainbow Shell

            well, reread it. maybe it’s better maybe worse. .it’s a thought 😉

          • Rainbow Shell

            there you go. . we have to let go of dwelling on the consequence and act. spot on it 🙂

          • mewabe

            Thanks Rainbow…:)

        • Charles

          “We have to let go, and have peace with it, no matter what, or we become an amplifier for bad, thinking about it, making it crystal clear and real.”

          Ok, we let it go and have peace with it, but it’s there, it exists. What do the people who are there experiencing it needing to do with their thoughts about it? Is empathy not correct when we think of those people or even sympathy? Most of earth says that’s what we do when we care.

          “But, unless living in a closed off cave, with no distractions, I’ll say it’s impossible. We can’t help ourselves having motions, act on them, and have consequences. And, I think it’s supposed to be like that, in the making of a road to walk, making yourself acquainted with a lot of experience.”

          I almost agree, we have these human bodies to tend with, but I think your on the right track, I mean choosing how we think about it, which in turns creates the action we take. There is certainly a better action than a shipload of bombs being sent to “any” location.

          “For progress, there are no wrong turns, experience leads to wisdom — eventually.”

          I would like to believe that experience leads to wisdom, it actually does, but the amount of violence seen in our world is as old as humans. Wisdom is outdone by fear and greed, they keep it going. It will take quite a widespread change in the way people think to stop it.

          • Sam

            “Is empathy not correct when we think of those people or even sympathy? Most of earth says that’s what we do when we care.”

            Empathy is something human, and an important stepping stone for self-development and what impact this has on the world — in my view. But, in the state of enlightenment, or God, it seems they are beyond something of the sort. Because, as it can seem, even empathy has some darkness in the background you will be carrying on to as well; still feeding the phantom you want to beat, in some degree. And for our human dimension I think this is unavoidable. It’s linked irrevocably together. Only as enlightened you be all shining pure, all the way a flipped tile, as one piece in the mosaics of the world.

            From what you wrote: good points 🙂

    • Rainbow Shell

      I get your point that when we are so focused on bringing light to a negative situation that there is a possible downside of creating more energy around it, but the situation that has no contradicting wavelength goes on and on. It doesn’t get level without a countering force of positive light energy focused at it. If we are aware, we have thought around anything we are aware. It is impossible to not think,or is it? I mean we can act from a high level of being, but that sometimes requiring action without too much thought on negative consequences for our little body here, such as running into a burning building to save a child. I think that point was brought up in the new book.

      • Sam

        “I get your point that when we are so focused on bringing light to a negative situation that there is a possible downside of creating more energy around it”

        What I think, is that the “possible downside” is always there, and why progress is very slow. Why make an effort, and a change towards good, unless you think there is something bad? The underlying thought is that bad exist. It’s like we are chanting it every day, pumping it out there, almost overloading the atmosphere, making it the most real thing we know. Bad is something *we* keep alive. And to make less of it, is almost impossible, when we are feeding the phantom we fight at the same time, and especially then.

        “I mean we can act from a high level of being, but that sometimes requiring action without too much thought on negative consequences for our little body here, such as running into a burning building to save a child.”

        Why would we want to save someone from death, unless we think that death is something bad?

        • Rainbow Shell

          “Why make an effort, and a change towards good, unless you think there is something bad?”

          The universe does not exist in a static state if we are alive at all. Life is change. If we are moving, we are either going upwards and in a positive spin or downwards in a negative spin, so take your pick but I always said to do nothing is still doing something, the consequences of which may be worse than positive action in a conscious state of knowing we are moving.

          “Why would we want to save someone from death, unless we think that death is something bad?”

          Too much thinking man. Just you’re putting too much thought in it. If my kid were in a burning building, there is no thiought. I’m in. Forget it. No thought to it. If you came home from work one day and saw that your house caught fire and your kid still trapped inside, would you say “ah better get the lemonade out. It’s just death. .a part of life. .nothing bad?” I doubt it.

          • Sam

            “Too much thinking man. Just you’re putting too much thought in it. If my kid were in a burning building, there is no thiought. I’m in. Forget it. No thought to it. If you came home from work one day and saw that your house caught fire and your kid still trapped inside, would you say “ah better get the lemonade out. It’s just death. .a part of life. .nothing bad?” I doubt it.”

            I doubt it too, and not my point either 🙂 Even if all automatic, I think the reaction must include an awareness of something bad happening, or else we wouldn’t dive into it. And as a human, I say thank god. But from another point of view, there is never anything bad happening for real, it’s all an illusion, for the sake of experience alone. Don’t crucify me 🙂

          • Rainbow Shell

            glad to hear you’re part human 🙂 yeah…we’re all working on a dream as the bruce springstein song goes :))

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Sam,

      I don’t know that someone who’s enlightened “couldn’t care less” about violence. Enlightenment, in my mind, isn’t a dissociation from love, but rather immersion in and expression of being love itself. I believe an awakened person (or one on their way to being awakened) would therefore feel, think, speak and act as love towards all parties involved. This is much different from dissociation.

      The quote, if I remember right, has most often been used to explain there are no requirements being placed on us by God. There is nowhere we have to go, nothing we have to do and no one we have to be in order to gain God’s love. There is also nowhere we can go, nothing we can do, and nothing we can be to cause God to stop loving us unconditionally.

      I also believe that the sponsoring thought in this situation can be love for all concerned with Syria. That statement of preference doesn’t contain the overriding of what’s seen as “bad.” Improving a situation doesn’t mean judging what is as “bad,” but rather simply states that the situation can be improved. Sending energy to all those involved states we’re not picking sides.

      Those are my thoughts on it…

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

  • Patrick Gannon

    While Neale specifically addressed the issue of chemical weapons, that’s just a symptom that has little to do with the core problem, to my way of thinking. I think the solution is to have a global conversation. How about that! This is how I think it has to start:

    A large group of influential Jews, including politicians, Rabbis, scientists, bankers, athletes, media stars, journalists, archaeologists, musicians, etc. sign a treatise in which they acknowledge and call upon their fellow Jews to acknowledge that there is no justification for holding to the idea that the Jews are the “chosen people” or that they were granted a “promised land.”

    We know beyond reasonable doubt today that the early bible is myth, much derived from earlier pagan religions (Yahweh was a god of war, for example). We know that there was no six day creation, no two-person DNA bottleneck, no global flood and most important for the Jewish signers to this document – no mass Exodus from Egypt and no conquest of Canaan. Israel’s leading archaeologists came to this conclusion some time ago, and they were given access to fully research the possibility of these events in the places they were supposed to have happened. Nothing. Not a shard of pottery, a wagon wheel, a spear tip, a sword – nothing. 1 – 3 million people would have left something. They came to the conclusion that it was a myth; one with powerful stories to tell, but purely mythical from a historical standpoint.

    If a large group of very influential Jews admitted this, it might force the discussion we have to have, because all the Abrahamic religions are based on these same things. No six day creation, no literal Adam and his original sin, no global flood, no Exodus and no conquest – what else do the Abrahamic gods rest upon besides pagan mythology? The major religions have to have this discussion in an open and very public way. The Jews started this mess, they are the perfect candidates to start the global conversation we have to have if we are to resolve it.

    This doesn’t mean they have to pack up and leave. The UN gave them their land, not some imaginary, invisible being that lives in the sky. But we have to have the conversation, if we’re ever to have any hope of peace between these highly destructive Abrahamic religions, including all the sects they spawned. Ultimately the war in Syria is driven by one sect of Muslims vs. another. All of them are killing each other over a god whose foundation has washed away. We have to have this discussion in my view. Einstein says energy is never lost, but it can be redirected. This is a new direction.

    Regarding the current event, I’m withholding judgment. I’m unconvinced that enough facts were in place to justify that flashy response in such a short time. We had enough evidence to blow up the airport it was delivered from, but not the shop where it was manufactured, so what did we accomplish from a practical standpoint? What I did notice though, is that the issue of the 260 some odd people we apparently “accidently” killed in Mosul has dropped out of the news as well as brain drivel talk of how many people were at the inauguration, how many people voted illegally, how Obama wiretapped Trump Tower, etc.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Patrick,

      First, let me say that I have waited an hour or so since first reading your comment. This is not a knee-jerk reaction, but I will admit that I am still a bit emotional about some of what you wrote.

      “The Jews started this?” Really? They asked for the wholesale slaughter of villages, the pogroms, the mass executions in their own homelands that drove their need to have land upon which they could live their lives without the powers-that-be burning them out of their homes (I’m talking pre-world wars)? They asked ships laden with their people to be turned away from “civilized” countries when they fled the Russians, Nazis and others who wanted them exterminated in WWII?

      The problem didn’t start with the Jewish people. It started with the first group of people who decided another group of people were unacceptable because they were unique, setting up an “us” versus “them” separation that allowed humans to treat other humans inhumanely. It started when the first human separated him/herself from the rest of creation, or Divinity.

      Geopolitics didn’t start with the Balfour Declaration, and the Western Wall is no figment of the imagination.

      And where do Americans, who slaughtered nearly an entire nation of Native Americans to steal their land, get off telling anyone else that they don’t have a right to their own homeland?

      I’ll stop now. I think you understand where it is I’m coming from.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Patrick Gannon

        Surely you can’t be so obtuse, Annie. I was quite clearly referring to the start of the Abrahamic religions and all the pain and damage they have given us over the millennia – some of which you mentioned. Yes, they started it. They took a pagan war god and turned him into the one and only god, and the rest is history. They antagonize the people, their neighbors whom they are ancestrally related to, and they say that they wiped out their ancestors in a genocidal war ordered by their god, that they are the “chosen people” and that they are entitled to the “promised land.” Yes they started this. They started the Abrahamic religions.

        Our society is based on the Abrahamic religion they started. You can try and twist me into any demon you like, but you cannot escape that fact. It is what it is. They started it, and they are in the perfect position to start the discussion that may finally end it. It’s all make believe. It’s time to be adults. Don’t throw that holocaust crap at me. You know that’s not what I’m talking about. You’re smarter than that, and you’re intentionally trying to denigrate me. I can take the gloves off again…

        • Kirsten

          ‘They’ never recruited you or anyone to their family God!! That was your decision, just as it is for every Christian and Muslim.
          My french Jewish ancestors were forced to Catholicism in England, while those in their communities were killed like animals for being Jewish. The protestant movement was all that saved them, with many Jews taking the opportunity to colonise and resettle in New Zealand, although my family personally didnt return to practising Judaism. But we do have a hatred of Catholicism, flowing through my blood. Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years, often by Christians.
          K

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Patrick,

          I may have three sides, but that doesn’t mean I’m obtuse. I know you were talking about the start of the Abrahamic religions. I am human, though, and I’m tired of people scapegoating the Jewish people.

          It was also a test to see if you would even acknowledge or comment on the rest of my reply, which stated, in part:

          “The problem didn’t start with the Jewish people. It started with the first group of people who decided another group of people were unacceptable because they were unique, setting up an ‘us’ versus ‘them’ separation that allowed humans to treat other humans inhumanely. It started when the first human separated him/herself from the rest of creation, or Divinity.”

          As I expected, you ignored this part of my reply, as well as my mentioning Americans believe they have the right to decide the fate of others.

          Do you really believe that before the Abrahamic religions there was no war? Surely you can’t be that obtuse. Before Constantine, Rome was waging war everywhere, trying to conquer the world. Then there was Genghis Khan in Asia. And the Egyptians. And the Ottoman Empire. And the British Empire. Religion isn’t necessary for war.

          I don’t believe war is part of human nature, or even if it were that we don’t have the choice to not use it. Humanity’s ability to see others as so different we delude ourselves into believing we have the right to take their lives started war. Humanity’s choice to see itself as separate from and yet somehow special in creation started us on the path. No religion, Abrahamic or otherwise, needed.

          BTW, you can’t both deny and use the Torah. Saying that “they say that they wiped out their ancestors in a genocidal war ordered by their god” really just doesn’t work.

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            Come on Annie, you tried to turn me into a racist.

            Our current problems do not trace back to the pagan religions that Judaism emerged from. The Israelites encoded their myths in books that prevailed, while the others did not. That makes them the source. They did away with the proliferation of pagan gods, and chose the war god, Yahweh to be their one and only god. They wrote the book that all the other Abrahamic religions are ultimately based on. They invented the myth of the mass Exodus and conquest of Canaan, which are two of the primary pillars for their pagan god. It’s time to admit it.

            The woo stuff about early humans separating themselves from divinity is not part of the discussion in my view. It’s nonsense. We evolved from animals to humans; there was no “separation” from the divine. It was a very slow and gradual evolution taking millions of years, culminating in a small pool of several tens of thousands of early primates 100 – 200,000 years ago who began to evolve higher intellect, greater self-aware consciousness, an ability to use tools and fire, and the ability to talk. Which of these evolutionary advances was the separation from divinity? Leaning to talk I would imagine!

            Did I say that there was no war before the development of the Abrahamic religions? Please quote where I said that.

            Mankind clearly evolved a need for violence. So do many other animals. It’s in our DNA. Those who fought and won, passed on their genes, and the others did not. Why we are the way we are, is pretty obvious, but we did evolve intellect and a higher sense of self-aware consciousness along the way, so we are in a position to modify our path if we choose to do so. We developed contraception in order to modify the path to destructive overpopulation that our evolved sex drive gave us. We can overcome our religions and issues with race and prejudice if we choose to. We need to decide to do this – not imaginary HEBs. Of course that gives us an out. If we screw it all up, we can always blame it on the HEBs who failed to help us come up with solutions. OK, you don’t like my solution – please present one of your own that does not include separation from divine woo, but includes concrete steps we can take to work towards peace in the region and elsewhere.

            Yes, I can both deny and use the Torah or any part of the bible. I can use it to illustrate how ridiculous it is, and I can deny that it describes the history of our origins and the origins of the people who wrote it (fake Exodus and Conquest) in any historically accurate way. It’s a book of myths, and needs to be accepted as such. Once that is acknowledged, then we can look at how to move forward.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Patrick,

            Get real. Where did I try to “turn (you) into a racist?” Proof, please. (If I have to provide it, then so do you.)

            Hmmm… How is it that there was already a “war God” for the Jewish people to turn into a monotheistic God? Could it be that war was already prevalent?

            Now, let’s get really real. People aren’t going to give up their religions on someone else’s say-so. (And, being Jewish is being part of a race of people—an ethnicity—not just membership in a religion.) Even with archaeological and other scientific proofs that parts of the Torah, Bible and Q’ran aren’t literally true, religious belief is a personal choice. If the most respected elders of all the world’s religions were to declare that their religions are based on (at best) half-truths and should be abandoned doesn’t mean the people themselves will do so. To think they would is, I believe, naive.

            Why not just leave religious and spiritual choice out of it altogether? Since it’s personal, let it be and use another approach.

            I prefer the idea of building rather than deconstructing. I would like to see the powers-that-be of all of the world’s nations (the elite, the politicians, and the religious and spiritual leaders) come together to have a truly global conversation. I would prefer to approach it from a point of building on commonalities rather than differences. We could start with:

            We all have a right to life by virtue of having been born, so killing of all kinds should stop.

            We all need to breathe, so it’s in our best interest to not destroy the air with noxious chemicals and nuclear mushroom clouds.

            We all need to eat, so it’s in our best interest to not deplete the soil with harmful chemicals, or destroy it with land mines, or cause fissures with underground nuclear weapons testing.

            We all need shelter, so it’s in our best interest to not destroy buildings with bombs.

            We all need water, so it’s in our best interest to not pollute our rivers and oceans with the waste of war.

            Those are ideas human beings can get behind. Not just one religion or another (Abrahamic or not). Not just one sect or another. There could be global inspection teams to ensure no one is acting against our best interests. (I’d prefer the honor system, myself.) Then we could move on to other matters in the interest of humanity, like global warming, petroleum pollution, etc.

            Prejudice:

            Noun
            an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

            any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.

            unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding an ethnic, racial, social, or religious group.

            such attitudes considered collectively: The war against prejudice is never-ending.
            damage or injury; detriment: a law that operated to the prejudice of the majority.

            Verb (used with object), prejudiced, prejudicing.
            to affect with a prejudice, either favorable or unfavorable: His honesty and sincerity prejudiced us in his favor.

            Idioms
            Without prejudice, Law. without dismissing, damaging, or otherwise affecting a legal interest or demand.

            Are you prejudiced? You tell me. Do you think your stance against religion, in all its forms, is prejudicial? I can see where some might accuse you of that, using the “detrimental” definition. People who aren’t as vocal or confrontational as you might be injured by the way you phrase some things. I don’t see you that way, though. I just see you as stubborn as a Missouri mule.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            Very important dialog here.

            Thanks Annie and Patrick.

            I think Patrick has a very important point in common with Neale: we have to trascend coercitive, sectarian, fundamentalist religion. Undoubtedly, for doing that, humanity will have to reject the most part of the Bible, Quran, and other religious texts, as just, primitive texts. Just as CWG proposes.

            Have you read “The New Revelations”, or “God’s Message to the World”, Annie?

            The point is not abandoning or destroying all religions, or all of it, but transforming their dysfunctional dogma, and embracing Oneness spirituality. That is in the very core of every religion. But for doing that, we’ll have to aknowledge that VERY MUCH in religion and its ‘sacred books’ just don’t work.

            I agree with Patrick that our culture has a BIG cornerstone from Abrahamic Religion. a HUGE part. Also from greek-roman culture, etc., but jewish-crhristian culture is a deep root.

            Of course that has to be changed, transformed.

            Our separation culture didn’t originate from Abrahamic religions. It came from before, of course. But abrahamic religion sealed it almost ‘forever’. In our cultural inheritance.

            Yes, a very hard work to do, but it can be done.

            Because our real essence is Oneness, and we can’t deny our very essence forever.

            Blessings…

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Victor,

            I’ve read all the books, but it’s been a while and I don’t have them to refer to anymore since losing my possessions when homeless.

            Neale doesn’t propose abolishing religion, but suggests that they shed their rigid dogma and return to their Spiritual cores. In doing this, they can then become adaptable, changing with the times. Otherwise, they stagnate.

            Religious texts have both things that are beneficial and things that are not. The same goes for religions. I can’t see throwing it all out, disregarding the parts that are beneficial, like love and charity and prayer and community.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            Yes, that’s what I’ve said, if you didn’t notice.

            Blessings

    • Charles

      Patrick my friend, If we could just get people to stop being so prejudice, they could keep the Gods they desire to have so badly. I’m not willing to dump all of this on a race of people though.

      This is how I think it has to start: A large group of people, including politicians, Rabbis, scientists, bankers, athletes, media stars, journalists, archaeologists, musicians, etc. sign a treatise in which they acknowledge and call upon their fellow people to acknowledge that there is no justification for holding to the idea that any people should be homeless or hungry given the amount of buildings being torn down that could be fixed or the amount of food being thrown away daily because they could be sued if a person chokes on it. Being born on this planet should be a guarantee that we would never go hungry and every person will have a small piece of “promised land.”

      Just a thought…

      • Patrick Gannon

        Jethro disappears and Charles appears, and the writing style is very similar. Interesting.

        Well Jethro/Charles or whoever you are, I said nothing about a race of people. I said nothing about racism or prejudice. I spoke of a religion. They cannot keep the god they desire to have so badly if they want peace. If we all want peace, then the gods must be reckoned with and called out on the carpet for their bad behavior. All of the Abrahamic gods need to be called to the carpet, but the Jews started it. They should go first and set the example.

        The Jews started the Abrahamic religions, and they are all based on myths. It’s time to admit that, and since they started it, they are in the best position to bring about the discussion we all need to have.

        • Charles

          If I must be called by a fictitious name any further make it “the artist formerly known as Jethro” I never kept my real name a secret, just got tired of having real conversations with a fake name. I had a feeling you would call it, Patrick my friend…

          The only thing I said about prejudice is, If the prejudice would stop, many of the problems would go away. You were not accused. The Jews may be responsible for the book, or was it Constantine? Anyway, The entire world to this point has played a fair part in creating hatred against differences.

          And it didn’t even require a religion in most cases, but religion wasn’t helping anything.

          • Kirsten

            Haha. Cept no one calls you Charles in real life either!!!
            Cyclone due to hit tomorrow, after three floods already in a month as we talked about. Weve never had a cyclone before, but its rained all day anyway. You’re the drain guy..plan Z works well! Hire a concrete cutter, cut a trench path out of the driveway and 20cm deep, and give the neighbours a new waterfall garden feature!! Theyre Chinese and I havnt seen them once in 3 years so wont know, its no where near their house!!!!
            When we were talking about it, go on to Stuff NZ website and scroll down latest info on cyclone cook. Theres a pic of a house with waterfall features down steps, thats what we had, although not that extreme but exact same front yard design!! Not good for climate change!!
            Take care,
            K

          • Charles

            Hello Kirsten, Charles is my legal name, the one on my birth certificate, my real name. The next time I close the account it will be final.
            I looked at the site but didn’t find the picture. A trench sounds like the right answer, If you can’t stop the water from coming in help it leave. Hopefully rerouting occurs as well. I’m wishing for the best for ya.

          • Kirsten

            Hi ya,
            I know, re names. Kirsten is on my birth cert as well but Ive never been called it that I know of, Ive been Kirsty since a baby…stuck with a baby or pole dancers name forever! When you close a discus account all your posts are deleted, leaving threads of people talking to themself. Dont do that.
            Break in rain now before it all starts at lunchtime. Yay.
            You take care,
            K

          • Charles

            Lol, leave people talking to themselves, I have already used those post to remember what I was talking about. You put a new dimension of humor in there… thank you…. and sorry. I just realized your a victim. Ouch. I hope you make it through without damage!
            You take care too,
            C

          • Kirsten

            You’re American…Ill acknowledge your apology the American way..you hurt my feeling (yes I have one somewhere, just one), so my lawyer will be in touch to email you his bank details, in South Africa somewhere, via his Readers Digest bank account for compensation.
            Although I much prefer our Kiwi way…unless we are severly abused our attitude is to eat some concrete and toughen up. Or tell people to ring Dr Give A Sh.t.. Different attitudes in a country where you cant sue people other than the government for real compensation, each dollar accounted for. Oh, and proven defamation where you can prove financial loss but thats near impossible. The victim attitude just doesnt form, theres no gain so we bypass that and just deal with it. We’re so laid back that our Prime Minister, a Catholic maths teaching farmer with 6 kids just made worldwide news for putting tinned spaghetti on pizza for his tribe of kids. Yes, we actually do that but usually on burger buns not pizza base! Scandal and about as exciting as it gets. Now that would unite the world snd bring world peace. A huge spaghetti pizza day, comfort food for everyone. My solution!
            My cyclone hasnt arrived yet, but an island an hour ferry trip away is getting a battering.
            Im not a victim, I just get water in my house!!!
            K

          • Charles

            Concrete it is! Belch!!! I feel better! I know my lungs are full of the dust. Self inflicted does not equal victim. Still hoping for no water in your house!!!!

          • Patrick Gannon

            A handful of authors wrote the Old Testament religion of the Jews. Constantine came in much later, as he pulled together early Christians who selected the “proto-orthodox” view of Christianity, which later became the Catholic Church. Competing views were declared heretical and stamped out – using the same justification as is found in the Jewish scriptures.

            The issue I raised has nothing to do with race and prejudice – other than to the extent that the Abrahamic religions endorse those things. The issue I raised, was the admission, by those whose ancestors started it, that the religion of their ancestors is strictly mythical and can not have any bearing on current world events. We have to leave religion out of our differences, and in so doing, I suspect we will end many of our differences – particularly in the middle east. That’s my hypothesis. Feel free to debate it, but don’t pull racism and discrimination into the discussion, please. That’s not what it’s about.

          • Charles

            At what point did I pull racism into it? The word “Prejudice”?

          • Charles

            I’ll give you benefit of doubt, Note here I am not speaking of racism. I’m talking about more than one group of people coming together and admitting that there is something not beneficial to humanity in their way of thinking. Not just the Jews. All people and all ideas of all religious views.

            Prejudices are not only localized to race.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Sorry, I think I mentally combined your comment with some others that seemed to be accusing me of this. No you did not mention racism, but you mentioned prejudice, and of course that is often associated with racism.

            What’s interesting is that nobody has told me why this is a bad idea yet.

          • Charles

            No apology needed, I knew there had to be a misunderstanding and wanted to know you understand. Thank you.

            It’s not necessarily a bad Idea but there are too many Gods left over when that one dissipates. Which is why I stated, “I’m talking about more than one group of people coming together and admitting that there is something not beneficial to humanity in their way of thinking. Not just the Jews. All people and all ideas of all religious views.” I would much rather see all people come together to decide.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Why am I having so much trouble being understood?

            I’m only suggesting that the Jews be the ones to start the conversation, since they were the ones that started the bloody Abrahamic religions in the first place. They are also the ones using imaginary gods to assert a claim to a piece of land in the middle east. They have that land because of the UN, and not because of any imaginary gods. If they would just admit that, it could start the “global discussion” we all need to have.

            How would you go about starting this or some other discussion?

            I think I am beginning to understand some of the objections. If we acknowledge the non-existence of the Abrahamic gods, what gods are next on the chopping block? Neale’s god is certainly primed to be decapitated by science.

          • mewabe

            You have a problem being understood because your proposition has little to do with the conflicts and wars that are going on right now.
            Your agenda is to question the existence of what people call “God”. Nothing wrong with that, but it has nothing to do with why people persecute, oppress and kill each other. Religion is not the cause, it is just a tool used to work people into a frenzy of blood lust, and it is the ultimate justification.

            But the cause is elsewhere.

          • Charles

            I understand you Bubba, I had to go to work I’ll get back at you later

          • Charles

            “Why am I having so much trouble being understood?”

            Because your only desire seems to be the removal of God, absolutely nothing else. Removing Gods will not cure everything, It might change an excuse for bad behavior but it won’t stop the bad behavior.

            “I think I am beginning to understand some of the objections. If we acknowledge the non-existence of the Abrahamic gods, what gods are next on the chopping block? Neale’s god is certainly primed to be decapitated by science.”

            In this one statement you have developed a conspiracy theory against everyone because Neale’s God might be in danger. You appear to blame every problem in the world on some God. Neale can make any correction to what I say here because I don’t know what Neale actually believes. Neale’s conversation is with his voice of reason. I was trying to get that across last week when I asked you, “who do you think Neale is talking to?”. You said himself, but you continue to say his God. You wouldn’t listen to me at the time, you went on about no Gods.

            Actually you said, “Why would god tell me he doesn’t exist, and tell Neale he does? Why would such a god have any credibility, and why would he set up one or the other to be wrong? Sounds pretty evil to me.
            No gods are telling me they don’t exist. The output of the scientific process has come to that conclusion.”

            You were stuck on me saying God exists rather than me telling you no God was involved. Why would I tell “You” of all people here that God was actually talking to you?

            How would I start the conversation? One person at a time, with a touch of acceptance and kindness for another persons thoughts!! I’ve already started the conversation…

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Many of us have. 🙂

          • Patrick Gannon

            Sure, I would like to see the removal of gods and a turn to rational thought, logic and critical thinking. I think that would be good for us, but the subject was the middle east. Neale asked for our solutions – in particular the chemical attacks – but as I said, that’s just a symptom. The solution is to start the conversation in a meaningful way. You talking to another person to start a global discussion is very Kumbaya sounding, but will be completely ineffectual, right? That kind of thing has been happening for decades with no discernable results. What is needed is for someone – in my view, a large group of influential Jews – to take responsibility, to proclaim that Israel, while controlling their land by virtue of the UN giving it to them, does not hold it as “chosen people” and it is not their “promised land” and the reason for this is because the events in question that put this notion in place never happened. All I’m suggesting is some truth for a change.

            Muslims will be delighted with the abandonment of the “chosen people/promised land” concept, but they will be chagrined at the acknowledgment that their own god has no foundation either. It should make for an interesting discussion if we can just get it started.

            Frankly I was a bit astounded at the opposition to this idea, here on this site. I thought people here would want to jump into that new conversation and replace the Abrahamic god with their NAG (New Age God). I would certainly debate against that got, but everyone should get a seat at the table. Call it a conspiracy theory if you like, but I can’t really understand the strong objections I’m facing here to this idea. I thought the whole idea of this forum was a “global conversation” and I’m being castigated for trying to put one in place. I certainly understand the objection from Jews, Christians and Muslims who all stand to lose, but New Age stands to gain if the Abrahamic gods fall. However science will play a role in the conversation and New Age will not fare well in that discussion.

          • Charles

            Patrick, when I logged in here the first time, I didn’t know new age from jack. You seem to keep putting the problem on Gods just like a christian makes God responsible for miracles. Gods are not the problem. Peoples thoughts about them are the problem. Ugly people are not the problem, it’s peoples thoughts about them, fat people are not the problem, it’s peoples thoughts about them. Rednecks are not the problem, it’s peoples thoughts about them. Jews are not the problem, it’s peoples thoughts about them.

            I was driving into another state the other day, I looked on my GPS and seen a dotted line. I commented to my wife that I seen no dotted line in the middle of the river, we laughed a little, we were bored. Then i said there is no evidence that we moved into another state except the sign. We had only moved into another state based on peoples thoughts about them, otherwise, it was one state was exactly like the other one. Borders are borders because of peoples thoughts about them.

            Here’s a starting question… What created so many borders and why do we need them. I don’t think it had anything to do with economics.

          • Sam

            “Here’s a starting question… What created so many borders and why do we need them. I don’t think it had anything to do with economics.”

            Borders are like laws and rules. A sharp warning of mistrust. “I live here, my turf, my body, don’t violate it, or else”.

          • Charles

            Agreed… A sharp warning of mistrust. We have an idea that nobody can be trusted. So we confine ourselves to a location to protect the very ideas that keep us separated.

            I’m wondering what we can do to remove that distrust. Why do we keep protecting that?

          • Patrick Gannon

            Borders don’t always have to deal with mistrust. Borders, like fences can help make good neighbors. We have little mistrust of Canada, and most of us have little mistrust of Mexico, and surely there are nations in Europe whose borders do not represent mistrust. I would like to see those borders open, so we can walk over them, just as we can hop the fence or go through the gate to visit neighbors, but I’m not convinced borders are necessarily bad.

            There have been some who have argued that many of the borders in the mid-east are unnatural as they split up religious sects that would have normally been together, and thus created friction by having majority/minority sects in different countries. The ruling party and it’s god dictate the rules and prosecute those whose god suggests something else. Better borders might have reduced violence in the middle east, by more carefully dividing these mutually exclusive religions, but we are where we are, and I haven’t heard a better idea about how to kick off a discussion that hits at the heart of the matter.

          • Charles

            “Better borders might have reduced violence in the middle east,”

            A better thought process from the humans that created the borders would eliminate the need for them… acceptance maybe that not everyone is the same.

          • Patrick Gannon

            When people are killing each other over them, then gods ARE the problem. Yes, it is people’s thoughts about gods that are the problem so making those people face the fact that the evidence says the foundation for their gods has eroded. That is the process of changing people’s thoughts about gods, or at least the Abrahamic gods. I’m calling for enlightenment, that’s all.

            Why do borders exist? All sorts of reason, including geographical landmarks that divide regions, but religions also play a key role. The border in Ireland, for example, divided religious sects, just as many borders in the middle east do the same. Some borders do have to do with economics. Why do you think we have a border with Mexico? That border is also reinforced by some amount of racism, but probably not so much religion, as in the middle east.

          • Patrick Gannon

            No, it’s not just the Jews, and I didn’t meant to insinuate that, but they started it, (the Abrahamic religions), so it makes sense to me that they should be the first to step up to the plate and acknowledge that it’s all based on mythology. Ideally, this would be followed by similar actions by Christians and Muslims, and the brouhaha to follow would surely start a “global conversation” that might help get us headed in a new direction.

            Nuclear mushroom clouds work too, but not to try this, or something similar, first, seems like a poor choice to me.

        • Charles

          In defense of all Gods everywhere, It’s the people causing all the fighting and arguing. No gods needed. No Gods Involved and you know that because no gods exist… Right? If we remove Gods it would be race, If we remove race it would be traditions or borders or language or fashion, Removing God is not in itself the cure for war or even bad behavior.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Sorry, Jethro/Charles, but that strikes me as a defeatist attitude. No guts, no glory.

            What are they fighting and arguing about in the middle east? Religion and gods, right?

            It sounds like you are saying we should not remove one problem because it leaves others behind. So we should do nothing? We should let the situation continue to fester until it breaks out to full scale regional war that pulls us all into it? We shouldn’t try?

            It’s like having a car with a flat tire and an empty gas tank. It makes no sense to fix the tire because you’ll still have an empty gas tank? No. You fix the tire, then you go find some gas for the gas tank. If ration and logic works to mitigate the religious problem, then the same tools can be used to mitigate any race problem – but race is a bigger issue in our minds here than it is over there. In that area of the world, they have always had a larger mix of different people’s and races, given that it’s the crossroads between east and west.

            Maybe my idea is not the best one, but I haven’t seen any other proposals. Kumbaya and woo nonsense isn’t going to cut it. Maybe these HEBs are putting “inspiring thoughts” into my head (to use Marko’s phrase), and they are telling me to spread the word, that if we’re going to seriously change our circumstances we have to start with what’s broken. just because that won’t solve everything, doesn’t mean we don’t want to solve anything, does it?

            Many of the Muslims fighting each other are the same race, so they will have to fight over property and water and other “real” things that at least make sense; but what sense does it make to continue killing each other over imaginary beings? The Abrahamic lunacy started by the ancient Jews has to be resolved if we’re going to move on.

          • Charles

            There is more than a belief in God or a disbelief, at work here. Mewabe is saying it better than I am. Remove God and the fighting will continue. What do we remove next? The discussion is finding the core problems, not the excuses used to create one problem.

          • Patrick Gannon

            We know the core problem. People are killing each other over imaginary gods. Maybe people will keep killing each other, or maybe after a couple decades of serious discussion, the fighting will abate.

            What I’m hearing is “So what. It’s too hard. Nothing can be done about it.” In that case the “nuclear option” is probably next up on the agenda. Do you have a better idea?

          • mewabe

            Patrick, people are not just killing each other, they are oppressing and persecuting each other! The common denominator are a quest for dominant power, control and to establish authority. This is universal. Religion fuels it because it offers the greatest possible justification…but so do ideologies, and almost anything humans can come up with to validate their animal instincts. Religion is a tool of dominance and a validation for authority…but it is not their cause. Why not go at the cause?

          • Rainbow Shell

            “I am not sure how we can cure authoritarianism, but we need to at least become aware that it is a universal problem and the cuase of most of our conflicts.”

            I can’t help but notice we have more men in politics universally speaking than women. ..maybe put me in charge. ..cat fights not welcome but let’s just put more women in charge. What do you say guys? ARe you really willing to move over and see what happens if women rule the world?

          • mewabe

            I totally agree and have mentioned this often. Interestingly, it is a taboo subject here. There is never any response…I am glad you mentioned it!
            However the social structures of the world need to change. Have you noticed what changes when a women heads a corporation or the EPA? Absolutely nothing, because the hierarchical and exploitative structures of the corporation or of these institutions demand that she serves the patriarchy (or else she is out).

          • Rainbow Shell

            If I could save time in a bottle and I could make wishes come true, I would act like an heb and if I were the leader of the world, the first thing I would do is to spend a day with all leaders of every country in one room and I would pass out a box and have them write out a list of things they wish most for and then we would read each other’s list. They would write down everything they feel they need most. Then I would ask all the leaders of all the countries if they have a lot of any one thing on another country’s list of needs and then we would start sharing, and we would have to share something and all would begin to be a little more loving. there would be wine and dance, enough to go around and then we would dance again and write a second list of things we can do without and that woiuld be like war and famine or animosity or judgment against themselves and then we would share again and speak about results that come from war and famine and animosity and judgment and show pictures of war (like when you’re getting your driver’s license how they show effects of car wrecks and on and on) and then effects of judgmental ones against others and more pictures of war and after effects. .did war ever change a thing for the better? Look at history. No. No. No. it never changed a thing, so maybe we would discuss an alternative to killing and then try to give each other more freedom to be without animosity and judgment from across the globe and then we would share each other’s culture and share recipes and I’m not facetious. .I am real.. .but, if you were to attack my kid, I don’t leave out the possibility of my reaching for another kind of trigger. ..I’m not going to lie, so just cuz I’m a woman doesn’t mean I’m weak like that. .think of me as a gladiator who prefers soft gentle rain carving the earth. . .

          • mewabe

            I like it… you have my vote!

          • Rainbow Shell

            thanks, mewabe 🙂 I’m running 🙂 I’ll let you know when I get to where I’m going :)) let’s just write to mr. president :))

          • Rainbow Shell

            hmmm what do we do about the corporate mentality? that’s going to take a double cafe au’ lait 🙂 I’ll have to think on it, and I’ll be back. ..

          • Patrick Gannon

            But what is at the root of this issue regarding women’s second class status in our society? Religion. Abrahamic religion.

          • Kirsten

            Ffs, change the record. God tells men to be good husbands, obviously the story with Eve as an example indicated women can make decisions, Deborah was a judge, Rebekah basically ran Israel, God said women can get a higher education.
            Abrahamic religions may be at the root of your personal problems, but not the worlds.
            If you want to say something just say it…say Mohammad or Muslims, leave scripture out of it. Grow some balls, go onto a Muslim site and have your say on their culture, but its not of God!
            That one was a rotten tomato in the food fight you wanted. Beware…….I might find coconuts!!

          • Patrick Gannon

            I don’t accept the proposition. Europe threw off the religious blanket that had been smothering it since the Iron Age, and most of the European governments could not be described as “authoritarian” in my view.

            If you want women to have a greater role, and I’m all for that, then you’ve got to address the Abrahamic religions which all insist that women are second class citizens.

          • mewabe

            Authoritarianism is never far off…much of Europe is currently moving to the right politically, and towards authoritarianism, towards neofascism in some instances.
            Even in Europe, you still have hierarchical social structures that are patriarchal in nature. That’s a form of authoritarianism. After the loss of religious influence, much of England’s and other European governments took their clues from the Greek philosophers (Aristotle, etc) who regarded women as being basically irrelevant. That’s another form of male authoritarianism…same old problem.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Yup, and that’s because religion in the form of Muslim immigrants is changing the landscape. It’s a visceral reaction to a violent religion, in my view.

          • Rainbow Shell

            I did offer a concrete solution and dance and wine are included and did I mention food, good food? that always gets men, doesn’t it?

            Seriously, how do we address women as second class citizens across the globe? hmmm let me think on it. .i’ll be back…I have to make coffee 🙂

          • Patrick Gannon

            OK. I’m listening. Tell me how you would address this problem.

            I’ve provided a concrete, proposal to address the Syrian situation as well as the rest of the middle east violence that is centered on religious beliefs. You disagree that this is the problem. OK. How would you go about removing authoritarianism from our genetic makeup?

          • mewabe

            The solution is starring us in the face, but we are so conditioned to accept the status quo that most do not even understand what the problem is.

            First of all, I would make it a widespread understanding that the problem of authoritarianism exists. Check out the book I previously mentioned. It should be read by everyone…Secondly, I would invite women into the conversation. Our world is completely out of balance because of the ultra competitiveness of men, and their tendency to seek to dominate and take control by force.

            Women need to re-balance the world with more cooperation, more compassion and tolerance, and a more gentle and loving approach to life. They would need to change the social structures of the world, which are currently hierarchical and outdated, to create cooperative, equalitarian social structures that emphasize these feminine qualities.

          • Patrick Gannon

            HOW would you make it ” a widespread understanding that the problem of authoritarianism exists”? How are you going to “make” this happen?

            I proposed a way that is quite feasible, in which the problem of religion (which in my view leads to the authoritarianism you detest) can be brought to the forefront of a global conversation. You have not presented any such solution. It would require an authoritarian figure to “MAKE” it a widespread understanding, wouldn’t it? Your choice of words was authoritarian! How are you going to force people to come to this understanding? Are you going to “force” everyone to read your book? In that case, I get to force everyone to read “The Big Picture” by Sean Carroll. I have no idea how I would “make” that happen, but perhaps you have an idea for how to “make” us all read your book…. ???

            I already invited women to the conversation. I want them to be included in the many notable Jews that I propose initiate this conversation. Women have suffered disproportionately because of the Abrahamic religions. Of course they should participate, and take a very active role.

            What you provided was a Kumbaya solution in my view – not a real solution. Try again… Neale wants to know how we should address the use of chemical weapons in Syria. You can start with that, but I think the larger problem is self-evident, and I propose getting to the heart of the matter. I’ve proposed a way to do that. I’m still waiting for your plan.

          • mewabe

            Whatever you say…you are the boss and you decide what is correct and what is not. Gather your followers and change the world!

          • Patrick Gannon

            I espouse and voice this view whenever I can, in various blogs, including our local newspaper.

            Neale asked for solutions. As best I can tell, I’m the only one who has offered up one.

            Agree that this blog is probably not what Neale had in mind. He’s a Kumbaya guy, not really into solving problems using concrete practical methods (unless it brings in revenue).

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Neale spells out the “Five Steps to Peace.” They are:

            1. Acknowledge that some of our old beliefs about God and Life are no longer working.

            2. Acknowledge that there may be something we don’t understand about God or Life, the understanding of which would change everything.

            3. Be willing for a new understanding about God and Life to come forth, and allow this understanding to produce a new way of life on Earth.

            4. Be courageous enough to explore and examine this new understanding and if it aligns with our inner knowing, enlarge our belief system to incude it.

            5. Live our lives as demonstrations of our highest beliefs, rather than denials of them.

            (From The New Revelations, page 14.)

            Specifically addressing Syria, all could come to the table and discuss these steps to peace. Not all would agree, but it’s a conversation.

            And, BTW, Neale continues to put forth these five steps, as do others, without any monetary consideration.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            Neale gets no monetary consideration for selling his books? Seriously? I find that rather unlikely.

            Neale put forward these five steps 15 years ago in his New Revelations book. What progress has been made in implementing them? What changes have they brought forth? What global or even regional conversations have been sparked as a result of them? How are you going to shake the world up enough to start his conversation? Has the situation improved since he proposed them?

            These ideas, however are one reason I would have expected New Age to like my idea. Neale has railed against the legacy religions right from the start. One might expect that he, and other New Age folks would welcome the questioning of the legacy religions that I propose, given that it provides an opportunity to pitch his feminine god, as a replacement.

            The problem, of course is that the group of people who I suggest be the ones to initiate such a discussion, are going to be rational, critically thinking, pro-science types, and his god will not be given a free pass. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who recognize that their legacy gods are myths, but who still, like yourself, hold to some nebulous consciousness god. I have no confidence that your god exists, but at least it’s a lot better than the Abrahamic gods who are violent and evil. You seem to be making every attempt possible to keep these violent gods in place.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            One doesn’t have to buy Neale’s book in order to have access to these Five Steps to Peace. First, they’re provided here, by me, for anyone to copy. Second, they’re one of the things that volunteers in one of his free organizations (to which he donates financially) leave in public places and share on social media on what’s called “Awakening Day” on the 12th of every month. Neale will gain no monetary income from them being copied here, or from printed copies left by the volunteers, or from social media feeds.

            There’s no way to track how many conversations have begun as a result of people reading them from those sources. The volunteer organization leaves these, among other things, in places where they will be noticed—park benches, sign posts, bulletin boards, etc. Some of the volunteers even paint rocks with the word “peace” as a paperweight so they don’t become litter.

            I have also personally mailed these to local churches, synagogues and mosques, with a cover letter, and emailed them to people on my contacts lists and places like the archdiocese, the Vatican, my legislative representatives and other organizations I’ve looked up online or in the Yellow Pages.

            I don’t see a problem with what you call “legacy gods,” or rather their related religions, if they are willing to evolve and change, focusing on their Spiritual centers rather than staying attached to their sacred texts as literalists. Some are already doing so, although they aren’t mainstream. Others may be willing to do so, and some will not.

            I’m not “making every attempt to keep these violent gods in place,” but rather encouraging the religious institutions to which they’re attached to evolve and change.

            It’s certainly an alternative to your Pie-in-the-Sky Kill Religion plan.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Rainbow Shell

            we’re trying to save the world here. Neale is busy writing books…why doesn’t he chime in his two cents 🙂

          • Kirsten

            Neale is too busy cutting down trees for his books, climate change is sooooo much fun for the wealthy. Lots of $$$$$ to be made.

          • Rainbow Shell

            Well, I got mine on audible at amazon for free and I then bought a kindle version so I don’t keep anyone up late with neale’s voice in my ear 🙂

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Not everything in the Torah has been debunked by science, only parts. Others have not. Patrick just speaks as if it’s all been proven wrong.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • mewabe

            Patrick has an agenda and found a new controversial angle to bring attention to his personal crusade. His determination to impose his views on others is quasi religious, which is not surprising coming from a reformed Catholic. But t gets old…

          • Patrick Gannon

            How am I imposing my views? What authoritarian power do I have in place to do that? Please tell me, because I’ll use it if I can!

            If it’s getting old, why does the discussion continue? I’m actually OK with this. I want to hear challenges to the proposal, but everybody wants to go after me, instead of my idea, a typical symptom of cognitive dissonance.

            You were the first to offer up a half-hearted objection to the idea. I addressed it, and you let it drop. The results of this discussion are affirming for me that I’m on the right track. If I knew enough influential Jews to write and propose this idea to, I would do it, because nobody here has given me a good reason for why it shouldn’t be tried. I see cowardice, apathy and defeatism in most of the responses so far. It’s too hard, so we shouldn’t try anything? We should instead have little Kumbaya sessions in cities on the other side of the world and this will solve the problem of people killing themselves over their gods in the middle east? That’s the only alternative I’ve heard so far.

          • mewabe

            You have an obsessive need to be right and prove everyone wrong, have you noticed that about yourself? In order to do this, you use any bogus argument, such as that the current conflicts in the Middle East are caused by religion. That is false. I have no sympathy for any religion, but don’t tell me that the US invaded Iraq and created the mess we are in in the name of religion, or that we are trying to oust Assad in the name of religion.

            The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not about religion either…but about territory.

            If you want to be taken seriously, you need to stop framing your argument so poorly. We know you want to erase the idea of God from as many people’s minds as you can, that’s the bottom line…why is that so important to you? How is this idea affecting your life? Are you trying to convince yourself in the end?

          • Patrick Gannon

            Yes, I will suggest that we invaded Iraq in part because of religion. George W Bush expressed the opinion that he hoped to usher in the return of Jeebus.

            Yes the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is about territory – territory that the Jews claim as their god’s “chosen people.” That’s not about religion?

            I’m not here to debate what’s important to me. I simply put forward a proposal to spark a global conversation. You don’t like it, but have nothing to offer in it’s place. As best I can tell, we’re done her.e

          • Patrick Gannon

            No I have not!

            I have been explicit in stating the things that have been debunked (and I appreciate your acknowledgement of that!), but you are starting to straw man me again. I NEVER said “everything in the Torah has been debunked by science,” did I? Quote please….

            There was probably a King David, an early temple, and there is a historical basis for some of the other leaders and events in the book. What I said has been debunked, on more than one occasion here is:

            1. There was no six day creation. I assume you accept that.

            2. There was no two-person DNA bottleneck. This is a new finding that has emerged in the last couple decades as we’ve enormously grown our knowledge of DNA and how it is passed on. This is primarily of concern to Catholics, who can’t have original sin if there was no literal Adam.

            3. There was no global flood. I assume you accept this obvious truth.

            4. There was no mass Exodus from Egypt. Sure there were workers who returned home, and maybe a small group had a vision following the consumption of magic mushrooms – I have no idea if there was some legendary event that started the idea of a mass Exodus – but we know beyond reasonable doubt that this did not happen. Fundagelicals will agree that there is no evidence, but they will always respond, that a lack of evidence doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. While logically, this statement is true – hard to prove a negative – it’s an extremely weak argument. Just because there’s no evidence that the moon isn’t full of green cheese, doesn’t mean that it’s not full of green cheese. Who is going to accept that line of argument?

            5. Similarly there was no conquest of Canaan by these 2-3 million Israelites. Israeli archaeologists with full access to the places this genocide was supposed to have taken place, have found only evidence for Persian invasions.

            Aside from that, what else in the Torah did I say was debunked?

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I said specifically, “speaks as if.” I carefully phrased it, knowing you would come after me for it if I got it wrong.

            You do, as a point of fact, speak as if scientific discoveries will make the entire Torah moot, thus ending Judaism. There’s more to the Torah than just the six day creation, the Garden of Eden, the floor, and the Exodus.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            Yes, but those are the pillars upon which the Abrahamic god is based. I’ve read the bible several times. There are no other significant pillars for the existence of Yahweh besides these that I can find.

            You’re playing word games… I never made any mention whatsoever that the rest of the Torah had been proven wrong. You don’t want to debate my idea, you’re back to wanting to debate my person. I’m not going to sit still while you attempt to misrepresent me.

            ” Patrick just speaks as if it’s all been proven wrong.” No I have not. That’s a lie.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I missed something. What is a “day” when the space-time fabric is rapidly expanding, starting to form clusters of dust that then turn into the stars and galaxies and planets? I can’t agree or disagree with a “six day creation” unless I understand what a “day” is in a rapidly expanding universe.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            The word in the bible is “yom” and it can mean:

            1) a period of light; 2) a period of 24 hours; 3) a general, vague time; 4) a point of time; 5) a year.

            Google it yourself: Does Genesis chapter 1 mean literal 24-hour days. The answer is essentially, yes it does.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            “The issue I raised, was the admission, by those whose ancestors started it, that the religion of their ancestors is strictly mythical and can not have any bearing on current world events.”

            Kinda kills your declaration that it’s not about the entire religion instead of what you’ve laid out as the “pillars” of the religion.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            Where did this quote come from? I can’t find it in the preceding text, so I can’t tell, first of all, whether you took it out of context. I appreciate your level of nitpicking, though. It reminds me to be aware of what I’m writing – which can slip a bit when slamming through a bunch of responses in a hurry.

            Of course it’s about the whole religion. The traditions and cultures can seek out ways to survive and even prosper, while acknowledging the mythical underpinnings to the religion. With the pillars gone, the religions as we know them must change or go away. I don’t see them going away any time soon, but their influence in politics and other social decisions must change. Their effects on us are deleterious as Neale has made abundantly clear. All I’m doing that he hasn’t done, is propose a way to shake things up and get the conversation started.

            In like fashion, I call upon Neale and his other New Age buds to put their reputations on the line and organize a large-scale consciousness experiment to provide objective evidence for their beliefs. They will never do that though – they already know it won’t work.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Patrick, I didn’t go looking for a comment from you so that I could quote you. I merely ran across it while trying to see if I missed reading any comments to which I hadn’t replied, or wanted to reply, and remembered your adamant reply to my comment here. If I see it again, I’ll let you know where it is.

            Neale has developed at least two global not-for-profit organizations, that I’m aware of, to promote the ideas gifted during his Conversations with God experience. I’m fairly certain one of them gained enough signatures on a declaration of our Oneness to present it to the UN. (They were very close when I landed in the hospital, which began my homelessnes, and I’ve had other things that have needed my attention.) Neale also donates to those organizations a portion of his profits. He’s also made available one of his books free on this site, and has begun sharing his newest book free on his Facebook account.

            So, you’re absolutely right. All you’ve done is make a proposal, and I think I remember you saying you’ve signed some petitions and written letters to the editor.

            You seem to believe that the subjective experiences that thousands of people have had can be made to happen on demand, which I’ve explained before isn’t necessarily true. In fact, under the duress of being placed in a scientific experiment, they may be less likely to occur. It’s been my experience that they are always spontaneous.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            Those experiences are ALWAYS subjective. We can’t trust subjective experiences to relay valid information.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Patrick,

            Now, there’s an appropriate time for you to use “I” instead of “we.” You’ve made it abundantly clear that you don’t or won’t trust subjective experiences to relay valid information. I can, and do. Others can, and do, as well.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I’m confused. First you propose an experiment about subjective experiences, then you say that subjective experiences can’t be trusted.

            You may not trust subjective experiences, but I do, as do others. It’s been proven to me, time and time again, that the experiences I have are real and contain information and knowledge that is real. I’ve briefly mentioned some of those experiences here. It would take too long a comment to write one out that would provide the detail that would help you understand why I trust my experiences. And I know it would be written off by you, anyway, based on your last reply.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            I assume by “experiment,” you refer to the suggestion I have made several times in the past that a consciousness experiment be set up on the web utilizing a large number of people who would focus all their consciousness energy on an “objective” goal – to stop a clock, significantly affect the output of a random number generator, or something similar, overseen by unbiased scientists. That would not be a subjective experiment. Like the previous prayer experiments that attempted similar things – like the outcome of heart surgery patients who were prayed for by large numbers of people, conducted by the Templeton Foundation, I would similarly expect a consciousness experiment to yield no significant results; but it would be an objective experiment.

            I stand by my statement – we can’t trust subjective experiences. The brain seeks patterns, and outputs things that aren’t real, quite frequently.

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Patrick,
            Thank you for your reply. I love and agree with what you say. Also small results can be statistically valid but small as a consequence of the experimental limitations. e.g. results you mention are similar to those that found aspirin effective. Also, non-believers in such experiments drastically reduce positive telepathetic influence – as one should expect.
            I now realise (the hard way here), that any conversation such as we are having now is likely to be trashed by the moderator – as rightly it is off target. My fault sorry! So I must stop here,
            Hope you like my book.
            God Bless,
            Bruce

          • Spiritual_Annie

            “I propose getting to the heart of the matter. I’ve proposed a way to do that.”

            No, what you’ve proposed is the lopping off of one branch of a tree that is rooted in millennia of growth, hoping the tree will die. The tree of Spirituality will continue to grow regardless.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            I agree. Authoritarianism and separatism are the problems.

            And I also agree that religion fuels them.

            So, I think that a good thing to do is to trascend authoritarian, separatist, hegemonical religions. At least as a strategy. A very important one, I think.

            Of course, other aspects of the trouble would have to be addressed also.

          • Charles

            People are killing each other over imaginary gods… And what else? Just Gods? That’s it? Really? imaginary Gods? It’s going to be too hard if we actually think the only reason humans are killing each other is because of Gods.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’ve already addressed this. The topic is Syria and the mid-east. I think acknowledging the non-existence of these gods will benefit all mankind, but the challenge from Neale was to address the middle east situation. It is there that people are killing each other over imaginary gods – not in the Walmart parking lot over a case of beer. Enough with the straw man arguments.. I did not say that the only reason humans are killing each other is because of Gods. I never said that. Stop putting words in my mouth like that. It’s unethical debating.

          • Charles

            If Gods are not responsible for all the killing, who is and why?

          • Patrick Gannon

            That’s a different topic. We’re talking about the mid-east. Humans evolved traits that allow them to survive, and being willing and able to kill other humans was a trait that allowed some genes to survive, while those killed did not pass on their less violent traits. Religions, like politicians, leverage that ingrained, evolved trait, for their own purposes.

          • Charles

            Yes it is a different topic, i keep bringing it up because its that human thing I am talking about and you keep insisting that a belief in Gods are the problem. I think that Gods are just an excuse. Neale used Syria as an example but we know Syria is just the point of an entire needle.

          • Charles

            The topic is actually…

            Was Einstein on to something when he said that you can’t solve a problem by using the same energy that created it?

            Can an attack be removed with an attack? We don’t have to go far to study that one! And don’t mistake that as a comment about you.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Neale said: “I’d like to put the question you to, here — and the specific issue of what, if any, an effective response, spiritual or otherwise, might be to the use of chemical weapons in Syria — before I offer my own observation.”

            I expanded on his question because the chemical attack is just a symptom of a greater problem – I doubt many would disagree with that.

            As for Einstein, in my original post I said, “” We have to have this discussion in my view. Einstein says energy is never lost, but it can be redirected. This is a new direction.”

            I’m happy to go down that road though. The energy that created the Abrahamic religions was derived from fear of the unknown, ignorance about the natural world they lived in, and hope that this is not all there is. The new energy is truth, that these religions are based on myth. The new energy is knowledge of the way our natural world works, and understanding that the biblical events upon which the Abrahamic gods are based, has washed out to sea.

            We still have the issue of hope, and hope is OK. It’s faith that is the problem. It’s pretending to know things you don’t know that is the problem.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            “It’s pretending to know things you don’t know that is the problem.”

            Maybe it’s just the opposite—pretending we don’t know what we really do know. That every human being has a right to life by virtue of having been born, and no one has the right to take the life of another. That most of our universe consists of space, whether the space in atoms or the universe, and that science knows what it knows from a small percentage of that space, or rather the matter in it. (I’ll leave out all the “woo” and “Kumbaya” just for your sake.)

            (And I thought you were going to work on using “we” instead of “you.”)

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            Old habits, and in any case, I wasn’t speaking of “you” in particular, but “you” as in the group of believers who pretend to know things they don’t know.

            What we “know” are things we have objective evidence for. We “know” more than most people think we know. Science has to do a better job of educating people about our current state of knowledge. This, I suspect, is what concerns you about my idea. It gives science, logic, reason and critical thinking, a seat at the table, and that’s bad for any and all gods, including Neales. I know you disagree. We’ll have to leave it there.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Scientific knowledge doesn’t concern me whatsoever, so long as there’s a caveat that there is much that science has yet to discover. I understand that you have invested in the theory that subquantum discoveries will prove we’re unaffected by the energies at that level. I’m not convincted to that, but rather believe there are other possibilities—energies that affect us in ways yet to be discovered as technology continues to develop, allowing science to look more deeply at both inner space and outer space.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I was just reminding you that you indicated you were going to try to use “we.” I didn’t take it as meaning me, personally. You thanked me at the time. I’ll not do it again.

            I agree that the public at large knows far less than scientists do about all the things for which there is objective evidence. Science could do much better at helping spread news of their discoveries, in layman’s terms especially, as some scientific publications are often hypertechnical. I would guess that some know less than the five year’s worth of science I took in High School.

            I personally happen to like science, logic, reason and critical thinking. I also like inspiration, creativity, being empathic, believing in possibilities, and my own personal understandings of who I am and what Divinity is.

            Speaking for myself, I know more than those things for which there’s objective evidence. You just don’t accept that these are things I know, dismissing them entirely. So, your suspicion is incorrect.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

    • Mateia Andrei (A true friend)

      “All of them are killing each other over a god whose foundation has washed away.” Even if they acknowledge that their God would be fake do you think that acknowledgement would be a reason for them to stop what they are doing?
      They obviously have ulterior motives and those reasons would fill in the void that the crumbling of they religion had created.

      • Patrick Gannon

        Like Charles/Jethro, you seem to share a defeatist attitude. What do you propose?

        Yes, I think it’s probable that violence would trend down. That’s what happened in Europe as they became increasingly secular. That’s what happens everywhere that religion gets pushed to the side.

        Certainly the tyrants who rule them use religion to oppress their own people if they are not of the ‘favored’ sect at the time. Removing religion as an excuse to prop up their power could lead to better governments. Remember that in Muslim countries, religion and politics are intertwined; they are one and the same. Iran is ruled by a religionist, for example. If his religion is debunked, on what basis does he maintain that cruel and despotic rule?

        • Mateia Andrei (A true friend)

          Religious zealots will deny evidence using the most insane reasons possible. I find it unlikely that your scenario would ever happen unless tomorrow evening a space saucer lands at the UN headquarters and a ET pops from it and claims that there is no God. Again highly unlikely but even if your scenario would unfold the despots would always find a way. Just look at “modern religions” like Scientology.
          The human mind is truly a wonder.

          • Patrick Gannon

            So you’re of the school that it makes no sense to try? We should adopt a defeatist attitude?

            John Kennedy said, when speaking of going to the moon, “We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.”

            That’s human spirit. That’s what we need to be about if we are to survive. We have to do it because it is hard. Or we can tap out and launch Armageddon; it’s a viable solution to solve the problem in the middle east, but we may not be around to enjoy it!

          • Mateia Andrei (A true friend)

            I am actually pretty sure old religion has it’s last days numbered by natural selection.

          • Patrick Gannon

            So do I. Given this, why wouldn’t it make sense to jump start that process by opening the global conversation as I’ve proposed?

          • Mateia Andrei (A true friend)

            How do you plan to persuade people?

          • Patrick Gannon

            Read my original post that started this discussion. I suggested that an influential group of prominent Jews lay out the evidence that debunks their right to be referred to as “chosen people” who were granted a “promised land.”

            The idea is to just start the discussion on a global scale. Muslims will react positively to the acknowledgement that there are no chosen people or promised land. The conversation will get more difficult when it gets to the debunking of their own Abrahamic god since he rests on the same foundation.

            The idea is to start the conversation and see where it goes, hopefully with lots of input from science as well as all others with a vested interest. The use of evidence is how I would go about it, but there may be other methods that work better.

          • Mateia Andrei (A true friend)

            Yeah I was refering to how do you get “I suggested that an influential group of prominent Jews lay out the evidence that debunks their right to be referred to as “chosen people” who were granted a “promised land.” <– HERE

      • Rainbow Shell

        good point. What do you think are these ulterior motives or reasons that would fill in the void?

    • mewabe

      First, let’s assume that the basic problem of religion is, beside being based on old myths, a sort of authoritarianism which leads to dogmatism, intolerance, and persecution of those who refuse to submit or are different. All of which eventually leads to conflicts and frequently war.

      For the sake of progressing further in the discussion, I will assume that you agree with this premise.

      My question to you is: do you think that religion is the cause of such authoritarianism? That’s what Neale seems to think…Or do you believe that authoritarianism is a human trait that uses religion as a validation for its full expression?

      I personally think authoritarianism is a human trait that precedes all religions. Religions are simply used to legitimize such authoritarianism…what better justification than a boss in heaven who grants you the mandate to rule the earth by brutal force if necessary?

      However authoritarianism is also found under atheist political regimes such as communism, and at all levels and in all spheres of society. It is currently spreading everywhere rapidly, like a virus, the reason being (I think) that in times of greater global uncertainty, people seek the reassuring qualities of strong dogmas and ideologies and the presence of strong, “law and order” types of institutions and leaders.

      I have already mentioned this book elsewhere here, but you might be interested. It is called “The Authoritarians”, by Bob Altemeyer, a retired psychology professor. He uses the scientific method of social study. The book is free in pdf form…and it will give you great insights as to why you cannot get through fundamentalist types, of any religion! It will also help you understand (or confirm what you already know) what is currently happening in the world today, and in America (by “authoritarians”, the author means both followers and leaders, and examines and studies both).

      • Patrick Gannon

        I think our attraction to religion is an evolved trait, as is a drive for some to become authoritarian. I don’t think religion “causes” authoritarianism, I think it is utilized by those people for their own purposes. That’s why I suggest taking that tool out of their arsenal.

        You have to be careful in referring to “atheist political regimes,” because these are ideological political regimes that in many ways are just like religions, only with worship given to the state or leader. Nobody ever kills in the name of atheism, do they? Isn’t it also true that the more secular a country or region is, the less violent that it is?

        Again, in the comments to my suggestion, I get the feeling that the consensus is that we should do nothing because nothing can work. It strikes me as very defeatist and un-human. We make things work. That’s what humans do. We figure things out. It’s in our DNA to learn and discover; and we are smart enough to figure out how to solve this if we don’t quit before we start – which disturbingly seems to be the general trend in this thread!

        Nuclear war is certainly an option on the table. Is that a better option than starting a global conversation about our religions and what they are doing to us?

        • Rainbow Shell

          I love your last line. I agree religion is used more often than not as a defense to strike at another group of people in the name of God, for God’s sake and none of it makes common sense, does it? The truth is God is unconditional love somehow but we can just use the name love and call it pure and call ourselves atheists but truthfully I don’t think we can even say “nobody ever kills in the name of atheism” because some atheists can be extremely opionated..it’s a crap shoot. We’re all what we are and need to, as you say, have a global conversation :))

          • Patrick Gannon

            Being extremely opinionated does not necessarily result in killing others. Please list a few of the killings in the name of atheism that have occurred in recent decades…. I don’t know of any.

          • Rainbow Shell

            yea but do you believe in love and its power and magic?

          • Patrick Gannon

            I think that love is a condition that results from a particular mix of hormones and chemicals in our brains that produces a certain effect that we find pleasing, and which acts as a social lubricant to form relationships.

            This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, however.

          • Rainbow Shell

            lubricant or not, the world needs more of it 🙂 it is very on point of the subject

          • Patrick Gannon

            I meant by “subject” the proposal I put forth to start a global conversation that addresses the proven mythicism of the Abrahamic religions. Love has nothing to do with that. It’s a matter of science, and archaeology, and geology, and physics and cosmology and evolution, and so on.

          • Rainbow Shell

            and love is all of that and more (ie matter of science, and archaeology, and geology, and physics and cosmology and evolution. ..you nailed it 🙂 )

          • Charles

            And history and stories handed down from parent to child and so on and so on… which was handed down in the name of love.

          • Rainbow Shell

            um Hitler was supposedly anti-religious, so there isoh so big an example for ya

          • Patrick Gannon

            Hitler was a Catholic. Nazi belts all said “God is with us” in German. The myth that Hitler was not religious is fully debunked. He had some issues with the Catholic Church, but he understood and used some of the things they used, in order to control the sheeple.

            Hitler never claimed to kill in the name of atheism.

          • Rainbow Shell

            oh wikapedia said he was anti-religious, not that wikapedia is great but I am no historian per se. At any rate, the most strong held opinionated ones amongst us tend to be the least likely to look at opposing points of view and that does not a round world make 🙂

          • Patrick Gannon

            I would suggest that it is those who hold the strongest beliefs who are least likely to look at opposing points of view. As an opinionated person myself, I have to understand the other viewpoint(s) if I am to debate against them successfully. Because I prefer to “think that” instead of “believe in,” it makes it much easier to look at opposing views. That’s how I got where I am. I started off as an indoctrinated Catholic, just like Neale. If I had not challenged my beliefs, I’d still be in fear of their evil god.

            The problem we have as a society, and this is discussed in many psych papers these days because it’s a big problem, is that people holding strong beliefs, when faced with contrary evidence, will suffer cognitive dissonance before challenging those beliefs. The consensus seems to be that people have to see contrary evidence for a couple years before they will begin to let it seep in. We’re trying to understand this condition; because it’s hard to depend on society to make rational decisions if a large portion of the population is suffering cognitive dissonance, which manifests as angst, anxiety, fear, hostility – everything we see around us. Almost all of it is tied to our favorite Abrahamic god. We’re being faced with the news of his demise, and we don’t want to accept that. Some jump to a new god like Neale’s god, and become equally tied to their new beliefs, but most seem to hunker down and deal with the cognitive dissonance as best they can; but bit by bit, till there’s a critical turning point, the truth will prevail. All I’m suggesting is that we kick-start that critical turning point, and move it to a global scale…

          • Rainbow Shell

            alright, you claim to be willing to look at opposing views. Here is one. I think we can become a peaceful world and still allow any religion to exist. …it’s not like you can force that change in belief system by denouncing all Abrahamic religion anyhoo. ..the reason I say it is okay is religion doesn’t kill, it’s the false radical nterpretation of the religion that kills and we can interpret anything in any way but even atheism can be interpreted falsely as a diehart excuse to kill. .it’s the tendency to react rather than respond to the other and all that is needed is critical thinking skills and willingness to address the concerns of the opposing side. . .other than anger management for all leaders, especially men who have a lot of hammerdown testosterone, which I love on certain occassions, I think we should do what I said and share.. .okay. ..and that is love. .like I said love is what the world needs now and more of it and no woo to it it is real .

          • Patrick Gannon

            My last post apparently crashed the system and it wouldn’t load, so this will be short. I wish you were right, but these religions are mutually exclusive. Each teaches that only it has the true pipeloine to god. The only way to fix that is to show that all of them are bogus – and that’s because they are. There is overwhelming evidence that they are wrong.

            How in the world can atheism, which is simply defined as “a lack of belief in personal gods” be interpreted as a “diehart excuse to kill?”

            I’m all in favor of critical thinking skills. How do you think we determined that these religions were bogus in the first place?

            How are you going to force “anger management” on leaders without being authoritarian in the first place?

          • Rainbow Shell

            there can be a radical “theoist”, a radical anti-theoist”, a radical “atheist,” a radical “anti-atheist,” a radical big mac lover, a radical anti big mac lover. .I mean the list goes on. .anyone can be a radical anything about anything radical even. It does not matter what the subject is…anyone can be a diehart radical about it. Take it or leave it, that’s my point. You can’t expect to solve the world’s crisis by simply taking always and forever mankind’s love of God or religion or whathave you. Freedom is free will and free choice.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            How are you going to force the Jewish leaders to accept science over their faith and ancestry?

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’m not suggesting we “force” anyone to do anything. I only suggest that we kick off the conversation in a big splashy way with lots of very prominent and influential people involved in admitting the truth. Let it go from there, where it will.

            Nobody “forced” leaders to let women vote and have (mostly) equal rights. Nobody “forced” leaders to talk about rights for the disabled and LGBTs. It all starts with a discussion, but you have to get the discussion up to the level of the leaders who are using those ancient beliefs to justify their killing of each other.

            If you look at the statistics, you’ll find that the general public holds a belief in god, at a higher level than most Jews. Jews are famous for being well educated, and educated people are going to struggle with the blatant nonsense in the bible. It’s not just the Jews. Muslim leaders are going to have to talk about this as well, in order to make progress. Having the Jews admit that they have on divine claims is a start that I think they would welcome. As mentioned before, with that boon, they will also have to face the reality that the foundation that washed out the Jewish god, also wipes out the Islam and Christian Abrahamic gods.

            The Christian church of course will also chime in, since their god will be washed away as well; but they are in deep trouble anyway, given the DNA discoveries that debunk original sin. I participate in Catholic blogs, and various authors are starting to beat around the bush, talking about the challenges that they have no response to – like the scientific data. It’s going to get interesting in the decade ahead.

            Nobody said it would be easy. Nobody said it would happen quickly – I figure a couple generations at least. Or we can do nothing and wait for the radioactive fallout.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            OK, what prominent Jewish leaders, etc., are willing to do so, especially in Israel, since it’s about the middle-east? Do you know of any? Are there prominent Jewish archaeologists who would agree?

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Rainbow Shell

            in my view, we can get cognitive dissonance when we finally meet God lol

          • Charles

            I must suggest the science of psychology. Now the funny part is, when we go to send an addicted person on a new track of thought, we suggest a higher power. The trick is we don’t suggest God! Just something higher than the self. I know of one person who selected a tree. it represented life to this person. A tree. Not god. I often wonder if that person ever moved on to mother earth, and then a God.

          • Kirsten

            Psychology is from the word psyche, meaning of the soul. Soul is the old word for The Sun, which represents The Source, where our souls are from.

            Haha, nice try.

          • Charles

            I’m doing my best here! keep up the critiquing, how else shall i develop a higher understanding? Thank you.

          • Charles

            as stated above… A popular image of the Nazis is that they were fundamentally anti-Christian while devout Christians were anti-Nazi. The truth is that German Christians supported the Nazis because they believed that Adolf Hitler was a gift to the German people from God.
            Hitler frequently referenced God and Christianity both in public and private. The Nazi Party Program explicitly endorsed and promoted Christianity in the party platform. Millions of Christians in Germany not only enthusiastically supported and endorsed Hitler and the Nazis but did so on the basis of common Christian beliefs and attitudes. Hitler Was Not an Atheist…

          • Charles

            A popular image of the Nazis is that they were fundamentally anti-Christian while devout Christians were anti-Nazi. The truth is that German Christians supported the Nazis because they believed that Adolf Hitler was a gift to the German people from God.
            Hitler frequently referenced God and Christianity both in public and private. The Nazi Party Program explicitly endorsed and promoted Christianity in the party platform. Millions of Christians in Germany not only enthusiastically supported and endorsed Hitler and the Nazis but did so on the basis of common Christian beliefs and attitudes. Hitler Was Not an Atheist…

          • Patrick Gannon

            Agreed.

          • Rainbow Shell

            once again it’s the interpretation or the interpreter who needs checking, not necessarily Christianity itself. Hitler’s perceptions of Christianity are what is at issue not the faith itself. He was pretty damn skewed, don’t you think, guys, so his ideas about it are not trustworthy 🙂

          • Charles

            None, probably. How can that be? After all, millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments — and those governments were both secular and atheistic. So weren’t all of those people killed because of atheism — even in the name of atheism and secularism? No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn’t a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’m not sure what this is in response to, but we are in complete agreement on this point.

          • Charles

            In response to, “Being extremely opinionated does not necessarily result in killing others. Please list a few of the killings in the name of atheism that have occurred in recent decades…. I don’t know of any.”

            Meaning that nobody ever said they killed somebody in the name of atheism. Many have killed in the name of God.

          • Kirsten

            Erm….90% of murders are non religion based, generally domestic or gang related. Or do you have a way to put them against religion somehow? Perhaps Baptists in those odd length skirts are driving society nuts, like you! The general society is far more dangerous than any religions…your views are giving you dementia.
            Hope you had a nice lunch with your son!! Id better go and pray, havnt clocked in for an hour, God might be missing me!
            K

          • Patrick Gannon

            We aren’t talking about murders. Neale’s column was about Syria and the middle east. They are killing each other over there because they belong to different religious sects. They believe in slightly different imaginary gods. While we’re on the subject though, why is it that prisons have fewer atheists as a percentage of the total population?

        • Rainbow Shell

          Patrick, one more question. How do you propose “we take that (ie Religion) tool out of their arsenal” without becoming a dictator ourselves?

          • Patrick Gannon

            Through a global conversation. I wasn’t proposing that we literally force anyone to do anything. I am proposing a “global conversation,” what this forum is supposed to be about, only for real. A large scale global conversation centered around the acknowledgement that the Abrahamic religions are debunked. What might come of that discussion?

          • Rainbow Shell

            well, the people who are proponents of the Abrahamic religions might be offended, claiming they are not debunked and then it might turn into a festering food fight…i don’t know…but it’s true. It doesn’t hurt to try :))

          • Patrick Gannon

            Of course they will be offended. Of course there will be a festering food fight (but recall that many food fights end up in laughter and camaraderie). It’s a food fight we need to have. The Abrahamic religions have been fully debunked. The Bronze and Iron Ages have passed. It’s time to let them go.

            It’s wishful thinking to suggest that we can stop war in the middle east without addressing the core problem – which is clearly the Abrahamic religions.

            I’m always open to a better idea. I haven’t seen any here yet.

          • Charles

            You speak the truth but I must say that it takes two opposing parties to fight!

          • Kirsten

            I’ll sign up for a team. Team Isrealites and Jews, with an apparent mythological God, and no ancestors since apparently the scripture stories are all made up.
            I’ll take eggs in the food fight. Patrick wont even see us there since my team doesnt exist in his world, but that egg on his face will sure make a point.
            I do believe I just won a round in the food fight of words, the only weapon here.
            K

          • Charles

            Hey you food fighting trouble maker you… Is that a spiritual egg? or just a no see’um like the mosquito? HMMM…Can you boil a spiritual Egg? Spiritual deviled eggs, I don’t know. A one a food fight of words once but it was face to face. Never yell fabulous with a mouth full of crackers.

          • Kirsten

            Cosmic eggs…they represemt cosmic chaos and consciousness.
            Guess I won the food fight!! Perfect win on Easter Egg weekend.
            That advice about fabulous is the best advice ever, you should convert to Buddhism, its that profound!
            My best would be to never have a thickshake when you have chronic morning sickness. Puking cold milk out your nose is just gross. Or perhaps its all food fight training!

          • Charles

            You win. I’ll go with that! I never related the egg with Easter… I must be getting old. Buddhism… My mother came to visit me in jail and said I look terrible in orange. That is a Buddhist thing, right? I’m out now and like the food better, setting on a toilet without an audience is nice too. puking cold milk from your nose can be a serious talent!! I think its training, gotta be, part of the whole predetermined life thing. Gotta be prepared!!

            I’m learning to search some of what I think is just your humor. Cosmic egg… Whowouldathunk.

          • Kirsten

            Humour is never just humour, nothing is just anything….our tboughts are of the soul, so everything we write is!!!
            You sound like a guy who would look good in orange…now thats a gift!!

          • mewabe

            Heads being chopped off?

          • Rainbow Shell

            it’s like in Alice in Wonderland movie where the queen says “Off with your head: I couldn’t help it. i love that movie 🙂

          • mewabe

            Everyone does 🙂

          • Rainbow Shell

            I like it almost as much as elf cuz smiling is my favorite 🙂

          • Charles

            I sense that about you! have you met Kirsten? She smiles a lot in her messages like you do.

          • Rainbow Shell

            yea she’s funny. I like to read her posts ;))

          • Charles

            I do.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’m not sure what you are referring to with this Mewabe. My comment about a chopping block is further down in the thread. I said, “I think I am beginning to understand some of the objections. If we acknowledge the non-existence of the Abrahamic gods, what gods are next on the chopping block? Neale’s god is certainly primed to be decapitated by science.”

            Yes, the heads of the gods need to be chopped off. It shouldn’t hurt them much since they don’t exist.

            Oh, wait. You’re suggesting that if we have this conversation I’m proposing, that heads may end up being chopped off. Well sure, but they are being chopped off anyway, and will continue to be so until it is understood that this chopping off of heads is in the name of imaginary gods.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            “Neale’s god is certainly primed to be decapitated by science.”

            You can’t know that. You can’t predict what discoveries will be made in the future. Unless, of course, you’re psychic.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            Neale’s god has already been decapitated, he just doesn’t know it yet. We’ve discussed this. There are no god, soul, consciousness, Essential Essence, Divine, ONEness or other energies or forces that affect the particles in our natural world.

            What blows my mind, is intelligent, educated people willing to accept a “guru” with no particular training or education, over the word of physicists, mathematicians and other brilliant scientists who have determined how the particles in our material world work. The “guru” who makes a nice living selling his woo, has absolutely no objective evidence whatsoever, while the scientists have libraries full of such evidence.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Yes, we’ve discussed this. And again, in my opinion based on my experiences and those of thousands of others, there is a Divine Energy underlying all of creation and there are Souls. I can’t say with certainty that those, or consciousness or our Oneness, don’t affect us in ways science has yet to discover. There is that possibility.

            I don’t see Neale as a “guru” by any means, nor even a Master. He regularly admits he hasn’t yet fully integrated all of what was gifted to him (and to us, through him) in his Conversations with God experience. I see him as a messenger, which is how he self-describes. (You, on the other hand, are sounding much like the “fundangelicals” you have derided here on more than one occasion.)

            Not everyone places their entire worldview on only those things for which there has been objective evidence thus far discovered as you do. It doesn’t mean that we lack intelligence or education. It simply means we may believe in, or have had personal knowledge of, those thousands of subjective experiences. And, in the realm of possibilities.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            “I think I am beginning to understand some of the objections.”

            Patrick, I don’t think you understood any of the objections. At all.

          • Kirsten

            Im global, and conversing. How about my idea that everyone honours their National Anthems etc, and force a worldwide mass conversion to Judaism or Muslim? With thy shalt not kill, thy shalt not steal etc enforced. Executions in abundance, I especially like the bits in scripture about no cross dressing, it would be fun!!!!
            Or doesnt my vote count because I believe in God, aling with over 50% of this planet whom CHOOSE religion for their own personal reasons.
            K
            Xx

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’m not sure I understand where you are being sincere and where you are being sarcastic. Yes, over 50% of the population believes in imaginary, invisible beings that live in the sky. I’m sorry, Kirsten, but your god has had his foundation washed out. It’s time we start discussing that reality.

            There was no six day creation. Most people agree with this now. There was no two-person DNA bottleneck, no literal Adam and Eve. The DNA evidence confirms that we evolved from a pool of early humans numbering in a few tens of thousands. Even the Catholic Church is trying to figure out how to deal with this, as it kills original sin. There was no global flood. Surely educated people are all aware of this today. There was no mass Exodus from Egypt as described in the bible. Leading Jewish archaeologists have confirmed this themselves. They had access to places other archaeologists couldn’t get to for a long time, and similarly they have confirmed that there is no evidence for a conquest of Canaan by Israelites, although Persians sacked the place and did leave evidence.

            These are the foundation pillars for the Abrahamic gods, and they have washed out. What else is the first Abrahamic god based on, other than the pagan gods from whence he came? You can research all this yourself, and if you give it honest effort, you really won’t have much choice but to accept it or intentionally and willfully reject the evidence. That’s where cognitive dissonance kicks in

            This conversation I propose is going to be very painful, and full of anger. The Abrahamic gods came from a pagan god of war according to many religious historians, so I guess that’s to be expected. It will be an ugly conversation, but we need to have it, if we’re to mature as a species and it may be necessary if we are to save ourselves. I can think of no other hope for the mid-east, other than to change minds, over time, about religion.

            Of course I am open to other suggestions for how to start the conversation, which believers very much wish to avoid, but we need to grow up and have that conversation.

            The Catholics are my next choice because the DNA evidence debunks original sin, without which the Church has no reason to exist. However that still leaves Islam. Better to face the music, go to the foundation, and illustrate that it’s been washed out, and to have this announced by influential Jews whose ancestors started it all. That, I think, would be a very poetic way to change the future for those bold enough to do so, and it washes out the foundation for all three Abrahamic religions at the same time.

            Finally, I’m not sure that a lot of people who refer to themselves as Jews, Christians or Muslims really believe the dogma and doctrine. I think many are traditionalists who enjoy the traditions but don’t really believe. I think they will be more open about expressing their lack of belief if they are given an example to follow. The traditions are wonderful, and there’s no reason to stop many of them, but killing each other over imaginary gods needs to stop, and the best way to do that, I think, is to admit that they don’t exist. As mentioned elsewhere, this is not a short term project, but the sooner we start it the better.

          • Kirsten

            “Its time to start discussing that reality”…..haha, you are so wrong.
            But I’m not discussing it with you, its time to watch paint dry…sorry you are just too damn boring for my threshold.
            So glad you cant tell when Im sincere or scarcastic!!! You know I always speak or type with a smile, you work it out if its important to you.
            Xx

        • mewabe

          Don’t say “our attraction to religion”, I always found religions repulsive (I know I might be the exception rather than the rule).

          When I say atheist, It’s just a description of these communist dictatorships, not a criticism of atheism. My point is precisely that people will fill the gap left by an absence of religion and build authoritarian systems based on an equally rigid and intolerant ideology, because authoritarianism is a universal human trait.

          I have already commented about taking action. I disagree with you on the conclusion that Syria is at fault, but that’s almost beside the point…whoever is at fault in this particular case, it’s the same old human power struggle repeating itself indefinitely. Interestingly, Syria is a secular nation, as was Libya before we also opened it up for ISIS and other religious extremists….Our dictator friends in Saudi Arabia however are religious maniacs. Iraq was also a secular nation…it seems that we are expert at taking down all the walls that kept the religious barbarians at bay in the Middle East.

          When you say “nobody kills in the name of atheism”, you are not quite correct. The Chinese specifically targeted Buddhist nuns and monks during the invasion of Tibet, and killed them specifically because they represented something communism had stated was a poison: religious beliefs. The Soviet Union persecuted and imprisoned many Siberian Indigenous people, specifically the shamans of the Nenet and other tribes, because of their religious beliefs.

          Again, the greater problem is neither religion not atheism, neither dogma nor ideology, but authoritarianism, in my opinion. Humans will use any justification to establish their authority and dominance, gather obedient and loyal followers, and oppress or destroy other groups.

          Perhaps we do need to study authoritarianism a little further, it seems to be a widespread mental illness.

          • Patrick Gannon

            By “our attraction to religion,” I meant the human species as a whole. It’s a social construct that pulls a clan together and gives them something to center their lives on, and when it first emerged, it was the only option to explain the natural world.

            You said, ” I disagree with you on the conclusion that Syria is at fault…” I don’t recall saying that Syria was at fault. I recall saying that we acted quickly, perhaps before all the facts were in. I also pointed out that this event clouded other things that had been in the news previously, including the 200+ people we apparently killed by accident in Mosul.

            I would argue that the Chinese and Soviets did not kill in the “name of atheism” but rather in the name of their own ideology.

            This is all interesting, but why won’t my idea work? Why shouldn’t we start the “global discussion” that this very forum is named after, and why aren’t the Jews the most obvious ones to kick it off? We can Kumbaya in this site all day long and nothing will ever come of it. Bolder steps are required.

          • mewabe

            I have nothing against your idea…I think that humanity needs to start communicating in meaningful ways about many different topics.

            Abrahamic religions are definitively poison, in my view. Whoever starts the conversation does not really matter, but all 3 of these religions need to be at the table and challenged. At this particular point in history however, Christians and Jews have stopped killing non believers…the only ones left back in the 14th century are fundamentalist Muslims, however politically incorrect this statement might be.

            My question to you then is, how do you get these people to abandon their authoritarian streaks? Have you spoken to an evangelist lately?…To an orthodox Jew or a Wahhabi Muslim? Once again, I am pointing you back to the problem of authoritarianism, which you appear to be dismissing as “interesting”…but not really important enough to discuss.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Once again, I will point out that religion is a tool used by authoritarians. What sort of global conversation is going to lead to authoritarians deciding to become regular Joe’s?

            Pulling the religious rug out from underneath them may destabilize them, and remove the tool they use to get their clans to kill people in other clans. If people decide to stop killing each other because they acknowledge the non-existence of their imaginary gods, doesn’t it follow that they will be less likely to be so easily manipulated?

          • mewabe

            Have you ever heard the joke about the drug addict who goes to see an hypnotist to get rid of this drug problem?
            It works, but then he start drinking. He goes to see the hypnotist again, who cures him again. But then he start overworking. More hypnosis…and he becomes a chain smoker. More hypnosis, and he start gambling.
            At last, in despair, he wants to be completely cured of all of his problems. He goes to see a different hypnotist…who cures him. He then become a sex addict and lives happily ever after.

            Getting rid of religion will do about the same. It will not cure humanity of its authoritarianism, of it intolerance, of its fanaticism. It will simply remove one of it primary tool, to be quickly replaced by another.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Got it. The problem is too hard, so we should wait for Armageddon and let the Abrahamists win.

            NO! We are humans. We solve problems. We can do this. We managed to live with the fact that the earth is not flat and we aren’t the center of the universe. We can come to grips with the fact that our primary religions are entirely bogus, and we can put that behind us in a generation or two and move on.

            Or, as noted above, we can just let Armageddon show up and kiss our butts goodby. That’s always a valid option, but it’s not human character to give up so easily.

            So far, in this discussion I started, the answer seems to be that we should sit around and sing Kumbaya until the whole thing blows up, because it’s too hard to do anything about and anything we try to do is futile. What we need to acknowledge, it seems, is not that our core beliefs regarding the Abrahamic gods are misplaced, but that we are losers, destined to fail.

            You may be right, but failing to expend the effort to try, speaks badly of us as an evolved species.

          • mewabe

            You are the one who keeps saying that addressing authoritarianism is too hard. Admit that your real agenda is to get rid of all beliefs in what people call “God”. that’s your crusade…not to actually cure humanity of its real problems, but to get rid of all religions. I am all for eliminating religions, but that’s only a delaying tactic.

            Once again, Authoritarianism is the real cause, religion is a tool among many other tools. We can solve problems? Why would authoritarianism be the only problem we cannot solve?

          • Patrick Gannon

            When did I say addressing authoritarianism is too hard? Quote please?

            I disagree that it’s the core problem, but I don’t think I said anything about it being too hard. I was being sarcastic with those who see any sort of practical response to the issues at hand, as too hard.

            I’ll ask again – what’s your plan? How are you going to spark a revolution to remove authoritarian traits from the human genome? We can easily debunk the Abrahamic religions, but how would we go about debunking authoritarianism? It’s part of our genetic makeup. I understand that you disagree, and that’s fine – but once again, Neale asked for solutions. I provided one. Nobody else has. The consensus seems to be that it’s too bloody hard to try anything. The tire is flat, and the gas tank is empty, so it makes no sense to fix the flat tire? NO. You fix the flat and then push the car to the gas station and fill it up. You have to start somewhere. I provided a starting point. What’s your practical starting point that could generate global awareness, in the same way my plan proposes to do?

          • mewabe

            How are you going to get Orthodox Jews, Wahhabi Muslims and Evangelists to the table, to admit that their religions are all based on myths? I am waiting…

          • Patrick Gannon

            I thought I had been pretty clear about that. By starting the conversation on a global stage in a big way, with a big splash. All hades will break lose, but that’s the idea. We have to do something big on a big scale. In my view.

            I don’t care if I come across as arrogant – I take lessons! I care about the idea I proposed. You are the first to actually take a stab at it, so I thank you for that.

            The first thing it would do is let all the millions who already know this, but won’t come out of their religious closets, that it’s OK to do so now.

            I would like to go into more detail, but my son is in from out of town and I’m going to lunch.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Let me try this again. My last post gave an error message saying Disqus couldn’t load it.

            As I mentioned, I’m only suggesting a way to kick-start the conversation. It’s unrealistic to expect immediate results. If the discussion started tomorrow, I wouldn’t see results in my lifetime, and my son probably not in his either, but the generation after that probably will. When I grew up atheists and gay people could go to jail. Now atheists openly challenge the hitherto unchallengeable Abrahamic religions and gay people can marry. That was an incredibly short period of time. It’s not inconceivable with our growing access to internet, that in another half dozen decades, religion will have fallen out of favor, just like smoking cigarettes, another bad habit we really cut into in a short period of time.

            I haven’t seen any practical proposals to begin to eliminate authoritarianism, which seems to be the alternative to my suggestion, so I’m not sure what it is that I’ve dismissed.

            Is my plan naive? Perhaps so, but that doesn’t mean it won’t work, and in any event, every idea is designed to spark new ideas, better ideas, but none have been put forward here yet. You can’t use authoritarianism to eliminate authoritarianism, can you? Isn’t that like going to war to end war? I’m talking about starting a global conversation. I’m amazed that people on a New Age site would object so strongly to an admission that the Abrahamic gods are mythical. Hmm. Perhaps there are a lot more deeply held legacy religious beliefs lingering below the surface than I would have expected. Mewabe, I thought you’d like the idea. I’m frankly a bit stunned by your opposition.

          • Rainbow Shell

            that’s why I like my idea of having a box where leaders put their lists of needs and things they don’t want up for all to see, and the idea of making everyone share what they have a lot of with all, especially with those who have less. If extremists and authoritarians believe there is something to be gained, at least they will show up to the meeting, and that’s a start, then we can pour the wine,once people have shared.

          • Patrick Gannon

            How do you go about “making everyone share what they have a lot of with all” without being authoritarian in the first place?

          • Rainbow Shell

            they will want to share because I would also have them prioritize these lists. They would have to say what they need or want most, and then the country that has a lot of that would do the same and we would compare lists and see who has a lot of which thing to share and then share. All would have a vested interest in sharing because all would get what they want most. I would make sure that everyone walks away from the table with the thing that they desire most.

          • Patrick Gannon

            “…because I wold also have them…”

            This plan only works if YOU have authoritarian power in order to make it happen. Isn’t that like making war to end war?

            I’m looking for practical suggestions. Barring some kind of unimaginable event, you are never going to be in a position to “make” world leaders to anything, HEBs or no HEBs, right?

            Neale asked for solutions. I assume he wanted something that was at least remotely practical. How is your solution practical?

          • Rainbow Shell

            In the beginning man gave names to all of the animals and I named it in the beginning of my post…”If I am the leader of the world this is what i would do. ..”

            If it works, it works. How do y ou kknow but President Trump might be listening?

          • Patrick Gannon

            Like I said, I think Neale was looking for practical suggestions.

          • Rainbow Shell

            what’s not practical about all the world sharing all the world’s most highly held as value commodities? This is practical. In truth, placing a ban on all religions is Highly impractical, as you cannot dictate what a person chooses to believe in the privacy of his/her/its own mind, as long as those holding said religious beliefs do not harm another. How is your plan practical is the real deal question?

          • Patrick Gannon

            Explain how you would put that into motion.

            I never proposed a ban on all religions. Why do people always put words in my mouth that I never said? All I have proposed is a way to kick start a discussion about the Abrahamic religions, that begins with the premise that the Jews are not “chosen people” nor were they given a “promised land” because the Abrahamic gods cannot be supported based on the information we have today. I don’t propose banning religions. They need to die out on their own as a result of the eventual understanding that they are simply bogus and that they do far more harm than good. All I’m proposing is a conversation. I really don’t understand all the objections to that, particularly from Neale’s site where those legacy religions have been bashed and battered for years by Neale himself.

            Such an announcement, I think, would generate all sorts of discussion – or it may fall flat with no notice whatsoever – but if it gets the notice I would hope for, then it could start the discussion. It most certainly won’t be a Kumbaya discussion. It will be a long, hard, bitter discussion, but just as we started the discussion about LGBTs a while back, in time, people’s minds change. Someone had to suggest we talk about slavery. Someone had to suggest we talk about women’s rights. Someone had to talk about discrimination against the disabled. Someone has to start the discussion about religion. I’ve suggested a way to start that conversation. Please tell me how you anticipate starting your plan.

          • Rainbow Shell

            I didn’t claim tohave a plan to place into motion my plan. I just claim to have a plan worth putting in motion. Your plan is bog down forever with nothing in it but dead bugs because no one is about to die their love of God. I’m sorry. Religion is as long and old as life itself. You can’t die God or the love of God, no matter how aggressively you sp out your belief. If we start a conversation, we have to allow others to express, don’t we? Expressing means out of the equation with aggressive talk.

          • Charles

            “I never proposed a ban on all religions.”

            For real dude? You wish to banish all gods. Isn’t that the core of all religions?

          • Patrick Gannon

            I wish to start a discussion acknowledging what we now know – that the Abrahamic gods are debunked. The issue was Syria and the middle east. They are killing each other over Abrahamic gods. The Jews started the Abrahamic religions. They are in the best position to open the discussion that hopefully will lead to an understanding that it is futile to continue killing each other over imaginary beings who live in the sky.

            That does not mean I want to banish the gods. I want them to die a natural death, as we come to realize they never existed.

          • Charles

            I can see the “banishing” of certain Ideas about God, but Gods are cemented in. Though, you would get rid of Abrahamic gods. How? what would be the magic word for say, the pope?

          • Patrick Gannon

            Start the discussion. Lay out the evidence and discuss it The evidence debunking he Abrahamic gods is extensive, but poorly communicated. I don’t know what they teach now, but when I was a kid we were taught that the Exodus was a historical event. Back then the evidence was not so clear – today that would be a lie, a complete misrepresentation. We need to get influential people (Jews in my opinion, for reasons previously stated) to lay out the evidence as part of their treatise, announce it to the world, make copies of it available everywhere, and let the floodgates open.

            This discussion takes place every day in scholarly circles. The discussion needs to be moved to the public sphere.

          • Charles

            The religion does not belong to the Jews though. invented by maybe but not belong. every redneck from Maine to… oh make a guess it’ll be correct, has adopted the belief. I don’t think anything stated by the Jews will help. as a matter of fact it would help the persecution of the Jews to make such a statement.

          • Patrick Gannon

            There is a danger, yes that an admission by the Jews that they are not chosen people given a promised land, would lead to more persecution, but I don’t think so. Muslims abhor the fact that Jews refer to themselves in this way. Acknowledging that this is not a valid position would be a positive move from their perspective. The problem is that in debunking their own god, they also debunk the Muslim god. So it will be a mixed message, but the conversation will be fun.

          • Charles

            Now that’s an interesting point.

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            Great dialog here.

            I think Patrick has a very important point in common with Neale: we have to trascend coercitive, sectarian, fundamentalist religion. Undoubtedly, for doing that, humanity will have to reject the most part of the Bible, Quran, and other religious texts, as just, primitive texts. Just as CWG proposes.

            Have you read “The New Revelations”, or “God’s Message to the World”, friends? They talk about this.

            The point is not abandoning or destroying all religions, or all of it, but transforming their dysfunctional dogma, and embracing Oneness spirituality. That is in the very core of every religion. But for doing that, we’ll have to aknowledge that VERY MUCH in religion and its ‘sacred books’ just don’t work.

            I agree with Patrick that our culture has a BIG cornerstone from Abrahamic Religion. a HUGE part. Also from greek-roman culture, etc., but jewish-crhristian culture is a deep root.

            It manifests NOT ONLY as religious dogma, but ALSO as cognitive, emotional, cultural background THAT APPARENTLY nothing has to do with religion. It’s like the ‘culturesphere’ that we breath since we’re born.

            Of course that has to be changed, transformed.

            Our separation, authoritarian culture didn’t originate from Abrahamic religions. It came from before, of course. But abrahamic religion sealed it almost ‘forever’. In our cultural inheritance.

            Yes, a very hard work to do, but it can be done.

            Because our real essence is Oneness, and we can’t deny our very essence forever.

            Blessings…

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            I think a clue could be founded here:

            As Mewabe said, now Christians don’t kill jews and crhistians don’t kill amongst them. Or not so much as centuries before. Christians just kill muslims now. A little advance! (bad joke).

            How did we get this? How we get not killing jews or other christians for their beliefs? We’d have to research History to know.

            One conclusion would be: they used PART of their core religious beliefs for that.

            So, I think that we could use part of religion for debunking part of religion. Do I get understood?

            Another idea:

            Part of religion HAS debunked part of religious mithology. Many JEWS and CHRISTIANS, DO KNOW, that the Bible and religious beliefs are mitholoy, and nothing has to do with Love, Harmony, Peace, or other human values. So, we could work with these people that have debunked religious myths, but keep what they believe is the essence of religion: Love, Fraternity, Peace, Respect, Freedom, etc.

            These religious people have advanced a lot ALREADY, in having global of diverse conversations usually named ECUMENISM.

            I think Ecumenism could be an excellent tool for achieving what you’re proposing, Patrick.

            Again, spiritual beliefs I think NEVER will be destroyed or abandoned, but yes, I think that we can trascend the authoritarian, sectarian, fundamentalist, and coercitive anti-values of religion.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Thank you for chiming in, Victor. I think the reason Christians and Jews don’t kill each other, is primarily because Christians got tired of killing other Christians. Religious wars of Christian vs Christian raged across Europe for at least 5 – 6 centuries. Coincidentally, Islam is about 5 – 6 centuries behind Christianity and they haven’t killed each other long enough to get tired of it yet.

            What made America truly great to the Europeans was that we were the first western country to adopt a government that was not tied to any particular religion. That was very unique and different. We had a civil war over slavery, but we never had a religious war, such as the many that Europe experienced for centuries. It worked. Of course since then, and particularly now, there are certain religionists who would very much like to drag us back to those centuries, and they must be resisted.

            Jews have always been in the minority, so mostly they were killed rather than killers, and given the mythology of the Conquest of Canaan, they weren’t even killers back then, even though they worshipped a war god. But they started the religion, and they are in the best position to start the conversation that could lead to less strife over time, if they admit they are not “chosen people” and they have no “promised land.’ The Muslims are going to like that. What they won’t like is the acknowledgement that the loss of the Jewish god, also means the loss of the Muslim god since they all rest on the same foundation – but it’s a starting point to talk.

            The New Age folks, along with Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, scientists, etc. will all have a place at the table, but the focus, in my view, should be on the mythicism of the Abrahamic religions.

            The only ONEness we have evidence for is the allegorical oneness of being part of the same universe, made of the same particles, the same star dust. The idea that consciousness, souls, gods, and so forth continue to exist after we die is, like the Abrahamic foundation, slowly being eroded, but admittedly it is not as far along. Spirituality will likely to continue as a human condition, but gods are not required to bring it about.

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            I think that it goes far beyond of “christians got tired…” We’d have to make accurate historical studies.

            Authoritarianism and separatism are the problems, of course, supported and commanded for authoritarian, primitive, sectarian, fundamentalist religion and their ‘sacred books’.

            I think that if you take away authoritarianism, sectarism, fundamentalism from religions, they perfectly could continue.

            I have no trouble if somenoe wants to worship a god, a stone, a star, or a piece of wood.

            The trouble is when that someone wants to impose their beliefs to others by violence, manipulation, or social constraints. That leads to war and more violence.

            And when cutural memes, expresed in political, economical, social, etc., views have emerged from religious beliefs, it is a major problem.

            Which is just our case.

            Greetings.

          • Kirsten

            You dont KNOW the Abrahamic God/s dont exist…you THINK that, because thats what you want to believe and actively seek out opposing information for personal reasons. Science doesnt work like that, it requires objectivity and acceptance. Scientists are cavemen stuck on the Tree of Knowledge, boring creatures! They still think our personalities are in our brains and we are nothing but physical matter. You are walking a backwards journey, watch out, you might fall off since you’ll be a flat Earther soon.
            Change your name to Fred Flintstone!! Haha.
            : )

          • Charles

            I like Fred, he reminds me of John Goodman…. or is the other way around? Anyway, how did the rain treat you today? kindly I hope!!

          • Rainbow Shell

            I like Fred, too but I am more like Pebbles :))

          • Kirsten

            I just want the girls cool dresses.
            You cant be Fred, he’s a Freemason. You’ll get Patrick started on that. He’ll try to ban themm and their false God and non existant King Solomans temple, although they basically own the Western world, the US dollar and started education for all, and the libraries he must so love.
            Fred has to be banned, he worships a false God!!!

          • Patrick Gannon

            Yes I think that with a high degree of confidence because we have more than sufficient evidence to confirm these points, but you’re turning to personal insults…. evidence of cognitive dissonance. You are also demonstrating a lack of knowledge regarding the current state of scientific research and knowledge. Unfortunately this is a rampant problem for which scientists themselves are partially to blame. My global conversation idea kicked off by your fellow Jews – and who know this – is intended to help with that problem as well.

          • Kirsten

            But youve said before you like to antagonise, doing it to me deliberately a,though you know you cant, and that you cant be insulted.
            Haha, round to me. Pkaying your game to get the exact reaction i predicted…sound familiar???????

          • Patrick Gannon

            Have I made any personal insults?

          • Kirsten

            I said you cant insult me. But as a general rule, to dismiss the truths and experience of others, including history, as a load of crock would be insulting to people. As would saying their God doesnt exist, and their Jewish ancestors are liars and are at the helm of the worlds problems.
            As Ive said, you wanted a food fight, and Im giving you one. Your way. At a very low level of dismissing your beliefs as rubbish. Isnt that the point?
            Take care,
            K

          • Patrick Gannon

            Well if we didn’t dismiss other people’s “load of crock” we would still be living in caves. It’s frankly, not my problem if you feel insulted because I talk about the religion that your ancestors started. I DID NOT SAY that the Jews are at the helm of the world’s problems. I said that the religion that they started, and not so much Judaism as the more evil sects that it spawned, are at the helm of many of the world’s problems, and in particular in the middle east.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            “Someone has to start the discussion about religion.”

            Actually, they don’t. The conversation could have its basis in the refugee crisis, territorial disputes, concern about authoritarianism leading us closer to nuclear war, the financial burden on countries to sustain wars and the reconstruction when it’s over… or even over the benefits of peace, our common suffering because of war, the toll on civilians because of war, or any number of other topics.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            We fundamentally disagree. We’ve tried to talk about all those things, but they ignore what’s at the core, at the bottom of it all, and that is, in my opinion, the belief in violent gods that don’t exist. You acknowledge that these gods don’t exist, but it seems to me that you assume these people are incapable of learning and accepting things that are true. I’m more optimistic.

            You’ve gone on and on about what an uproar my suggestion would cause – but that’s the whole idea. Kumbaya has not worked, and in my view never will. Humans need to be shaken up once in a while. See Galileo, Bruno, etc.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            We have tried to talk about “all those things?” When? Where? Who participated? I must have missed it. (And you’re ignoring that I left it open-ended with, “or any number of other topics.” I had not yet retrieved Neale’s Five Steps to Peace from my cloud storage, which to my knowledge hasn’t been discussed by global leaders.)

            I do not “acknowledge that these gods don’t exist.” Who’s the Straw Man, now? I have been very clear, I think, that I don’t personally believe in Yaweh, the Christian God or Allah as they are presented in their respective sacred texts, parts of which archaeology and science have disproven. I think it’s entirely possible that they have been mistakenly recorded by fallible human beings, misunderstood, or misrepresented by those who have something to gain.

            Yes, we disagree—about what the core issue is. I’m leaning much more towards mewabe’s suggestion that it’s authoritarianism, combined with territorialism.

            I’d have no reason to sing “Kumbaya,” BTW, as the very next words are “my Lord,” and I don’t personally believe in the Lord God.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            “All those things” are the things you mentioned in your prior post, “refugee crisis, territorial disputes, concern about authoritarianism leading us closer to nuclear war, the financial burden on countries to sustain wars and the reconstruction when it’s over… or even over the benefits of peace, our common suffering because of war, the toll on civilians because of war, or any number of other topics.”

            The world has been talking about “all these things” and more, for decade after decade, and ignored the core problem, which in my view, is religion. To some extent, at least, I anticipate that Neale would agree.

            I have offered up a proposal to shake things up and get the conversation started about the core problem, rather than the symptoms, but you’re concerned that people will have their feelings hurt. I think that’s justified; you apparently don’t. We’re at an impasse. No sense in going further.

            You are now “fine-tuning” your concept of the Abrahamic gods, adding caveats that I don’t recall being mentioned before. You didn’t talk about “presentation” in this thread until quite recently. Either Abraham was told that his people would be “chosen people” to be given a “promised land” or he was not (primarily because Abraham himself is almost surely a mythical person). It’s that simple. Admitting the truth, that there was no such meeting with Yahweh, there was no such promise, and on top of that the foundational pillars for Yahweh have washed away, is nothing more than stating the truth. I have more trust in truth providing the best path, I suppose, than others do.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            You’re right—there’s no point in going any further. If a conversation can’t evolve and include different ways to express, then it’s dead. Not to mention your making assumptions and being dismissive.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I’m not “concerned that people will have their feelings hurt.” I’m concerned that the reaction to it would be violent, and your intention to kill religion might lead to more war.

            “No sense in going further,” and then you go further. I’ve been clear that there may be misunderstandings or misreadings or manipulations about God from the start of my participation here. My words have evolved and refined, but my core concept has not changed.

          • Kirsten

            Hi,
            This is already being partially done, I think under UN. A decision was made that countries like New Zealand where I live, that have an abundance of water, would be official food producers, us mainly dairy and meat, for the rest of the world to save their precious water. We are even oumpung water from the ground for export, at a huge price, it was on the news last night. Consent granted to pump water from a world heritage park straight out to boats. Chiba and India were designated as big ‘factories’ to prevent pollution elsewhere, including being do called recycling centres for the world, when most rubbish sits on barges. Same deals with oil. We are currently being ‘raped’ by American companies fracking off shore, gas reserves seem to be the latest now we have ceased mining copious amounts of coal to ship to China. Indonesia and smaller islands are being ‘raped’ to provide the world with sand, especially for Singapore who need it as they extend their land mass with reclaimed land.
            Its all happening, its called globalisation, and all officialised with agreements based on natural resources and the work force. With most these agreements arranged without our knowledge, they have also had to create an environment at high levels where there is a lot more acceptance of different races and religions. Its the middle class that make issues, often seeing them where there is none.
            Take care,
            K

          • Rainbow Shell

            Well, I think this is a good idea that we share what we have an abundance of. I don’t know about expleting the commodity completely, and I don’t think a country after sharing its valuable resource ought to have to continue doing so if that is endangering its resource in any way. I also think we should give new resources to countries so that they can devise more ways for producing often and more for themselves in the future .

            take care,
            M

          • Charles

            You can’t use “M” chelle, you have to use “R” or “S” or “RS” for it to make sense. See why I’m using my real name?

          • Rainbow Shell

            lol I forgot that I’m in gnito 🙂 that rainbow god in my pic is a drawing I did. Picture doesn’t do him justice 🙂

          • Charles

            It does only the justice you believe it does, be a little more proud of the time you put into it. I haven’t seen it and I’m proud of it. Man I hope it’s not a stick person!!!! LOL.

          • Rainbow Shell

            lI didn’t put that much time in it :)) He’s not a stick person lol He’s a firegod from a dream. ..I’m a working ona dream. .. I have a green one that is better but I can’t put him up yet. waiting on my new computer :))

          • Charles

            When the time is right….

          • Rainbow Shell

            timing is everything :)) I’m getting ready to check on the earth zone, maybe blast some bee energy :)) what is fracking again :)) is it bad if I blow some gold somewhere in the earth’s core lol

          • Charles

            Unload the gold wherever you wish, I hope I experience the outcome. I’ll let you know but it must come to me in a dream that I’ll never remember. I hate that! Bedtime for me. Nite

          • Rainbow Shell

            some I remember and some I just close my eyes and they roll but I’m drinking coffee now so I’m up for a bit. The gold is coming. .now I don’t want to explode anything. .weren’t you the one steering me clear of bonzaing the earth’s mantle ;))) I’ll just send it love with my honey b and be done. g’night

          • Spiritual_Annie

            There are local ones in a lot of the larger cities. I sat on such a committee back when I was Admin of a church. We all went to meetings with open minds and hearts. I loved it, and it taught me a lot.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • mewabe

            This is what is most needed…

          • Patrick Gannon

            I look forward to a plan for how you are going to start these discussions in Damascus, Jerusalem, Tehran, Baghdad, Cairo, etc.

            Maybe if a large group of influential people acknowledged that they are not “chosen people” who were given a “promised land” you could start these sessions in the places they need to occur. However, if you have another suggestion, I’m all ears.

          • mewabe

            No Patrick, I am looking forward to your plan for how you are going to draw Wahhabi Muslims, Evangelists and Orthodox Jews into YOUR conversation, and get them all to think that they are all mistaken and that there is no God.
            As far as Israel, you seem to have a bone to pick about that. Now please tell us WHERE the Jewish people, who were persecuted for many centuries by non-Jews, are supposed to live?
            And do you realize that as an American you are living on stolen Indigenous land, that was stolen in the name of Manifest Destiny, a doctrine totally founded on Christianity? Do you see the hypocrisy?

          • Patrick Gannon

            I don’t know if we’re talking past each other, or I’m really that difficult to understand, or you’re being intentionally obtuse. My plan is to start the conversation with a global splash. It will be hard, it will take a long time, but what is the harm in starting the conversation in this way?

            You and others have a liberal knee-jerk response in your minds that I have a problem with the Jews. If someone mentions Jews he must be an anti-semite. That seems to be the gut reaction and then the brain shuts down and can’t see beyond that. My problem is, once again, with the RELIGION that they started.

            I have not proposed that the Jews need to leave their land, and have said that here repeatedly. They were given the land by the UN, not by their god. I don’t propose kicking them out, and never even insinuated that. Can I buy another STRAW MAN?

            Yes, I realize that the US was taken as a result of the RELIGION that the Jews started!!!! If they had not named Yahweh as their monotheist god, there would be no Christianity to rape the undeveloped world. Without Yahweh, there is nothing for Jesus to save us from. He is moot. I don’t see how Christianity could have come into existence without the invention of Judaism first, but I’m open to how that might have occurred. Christianity and Islam are both outgrowths of Judaism. Do you somehow deny this? If so, you would be the first.

          • mewabe

            So would you get rid of science because if science hadn’t looked into the composition of matter and discovered the atom, Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have never occurred?
            Don’t tell me that you do not see that you are using the exact same logic and conclusion about the Jews staring their religion and the conflicts happening in the Middle East because of it.

            I am sure that in your mind in makes sense, but it really doesn’t. You need to come up with a better argument and a better plan to rid the planet of the God concept, as that is your quasi religious crusade.

  • mewabe

    Interesting debate going on…with little agreement.

    Why is it that much of humanity thinks that differences equal conflicts, and that we all have to agree in order to get along?

    We have already discovered, many of us, that we do not all have to look or act alike in order to “tolerate” each other, with the lessening of racist and sexist attitudes.

    Why do we think that we all must have the same outlook and beliefs, or non-beliefs, in order to have peace?

    Everyone is attempting to impose their ways on others…Except Jews, interestingly, and I mention this because Patrick thinks Jews started it all. When was the last time a Jew knocked on your door to discuss your salvation and conversion to Judaism???? Are Jews competing with American Evangelicals in Africa or in the Brazilian rainforest to gain converts? Are Jews setting up Sharia law courts In Europe and America?

    The more intelligent and educated a person is, the less authoritarian they will tend to be, and the more tolerant. Jewish people have a tendency to have more humanitarian views (they allied themselves with the civil rights movement for example), and to be less authoritarian, accordingly (who was the last Jewish dictator?)

    As a side note about the Middle East, I also want to remind everyone that Israel is literally surrounded by enemies, who from its creation as a state swore that they would drive the Jews back to the sea on a trail of blood. Who is the highly intolerant and dangerous party in this situation?

    The problem might be, and I only invite you to consider the possibility, authoritarianism, which seems to originate from ignorance, from a lack of proper education, and perhaps even a lack of intelligence. By education I do not mean learning to become a cog in the machine, a specialized professional robot as in America, where for example you meet lawyers who can’t spell and have zero knowledge about history…I mean a well rounded education that emphasizes creativity, imagination and critical thinking.

    There is absolutely no reason why we should all have to think alike in order to get along and have peace. Diversity, creativity and multiplicity are the very essence of life, of nature, of the universe itself!

    Uniformity on the other hand is the wet dream of all authoritarians, who come in all forms and shapes, and can even be found on this blog.

    • Kirsten

      Perfect.
      You’re on a roll Professor, and thank you. Thank you fron my Jewish ancestors who cant defend false accusations against them. Accusations only made up, along with the myth that God created Christianity, because it serves the purpose of others when unable to express themselves alone. When you need an army, but cant round one up…whats plan B? Create false enemies and hope others will believe you.
      Passivity is the strongest means to override dominance, when dictators and controllers realise the only person interested in their ways, is themselves, they will soon tire of attempting to control the person in the mirror. And lose their own need for control when realising that what they seek from others will still not serve their needs.
      No dictator or authoritarian wants control or to be in their own ideal world alone. But ultimately, thats the only world they can get. A world of wet dreams!
      Take care,
      K

      • mewabe

        You are welcome KIrsten…hey I might have Jewish blood myself, from Northeastern Spain (Catalonia…I have a lot of mixed blood). I long suspected I did…

        You are right about letting the controllers control an empty space. Among Native Americans, if a “chief” began to have Napoleonic tendencies, the whole camp would silently move away in the middle of the night, and he would find himself waking up alone on the prairies in the morning. I like the subtle humor in this.

        We can’t move like this anymore (although I like and support the current California Independence campaign, to separate from the US), but we can refuse to participate. Passive non compliance.

        Another strategy…I wrote this a while ago:

        How do you overcome that which is obsessed with the ideas of might, of achieving near absolute supremacy, dominance and control?

        You do not resist but grant it such power, until it becomes so burdened under its weight that it collapses from within.

        (I think that it is what might be currently happening to America, a nation that has forgotten the lessons of the Roman Empire).

        Take care!
        Fopressor

        • Kirsten

          Hi ya Mewabearwhisperer,
          Israelite bloodlines! Yes you do, I can tell Israelites a mile off. I think well less than a quarter are Jewish now, and lots of Jews arent Israelites.
          Most are mongrels, but its in our blood and spirit. Scripture states that. But many do carry the ‘pretty gene’, slimmer builds with cheekbones and a smaller chin. Plus a generally straight nose and higher eyebrows. Brown wavy hear is a thing too. We are born fighters and cannot tolerate injustice. Scripture states we are all tested for righteousness and justice, and certainly are. Thats what a cross represents. Don’t tell Patrick though…he asked for a food fight, Im giving him one but if he hears that about you, he might fire moldy bread at ya!!
          I have an amazing peaceful surfing story as well. Much cooler than yours, of course. I was surfing in Hawaii when I was 9 and fell off. My sister called my name, so I turned to her, and bam, she surfed straight into my face and broke my nose.
          Complete peace, no fear, just like you.
          Oh hang on, mine was possibly that I had no time to feel anything, then was in pain shock.
          And I have a drowning one too. Drowned in a barrel thing of roof lead paint when I was 1. Mum couldnt find me for ages, then obviously freaked to find me dead. Her screams bought a neighbour 3 houses away, a cop who had just done a cpr course, it was a new thing then. He did it, then the ambos did for ages, and I finally puked. Freaky to have been dead. Even freakier to have few long term effects of lead poisoning. Other than my 5 arms, 12 toes and the brain capacity of a baboon, with butt and body hair to match. I think my unfortunate looking head and missing parts are probably genetic.
          Have a good Easter weekend, I know you’ll be in to it!!
          Take care,
          Kirstinasugarhangoverstate.

          • mewabe

            Good description…mongrel, slim, straight nose, wavy brown hair, all that. Damn you are good, when did you fly your drone around, I never saw it?
            Face surfing takes some practice…you shouldn’t have given up so easily.
            Drowning in paint? So you wanted to be an artist?…how was your near death experience? Did you see a big light at the end of the tunnel (or is that the last thing a deer sees on a highway?)
            I once had a near birth experience…I saw the light at the end of the tunnel and though “no way, I ain’t leaving this place, you can’t make me, it’s too crazy out there”.
            Hey I am burning the midnight oil on another deadline, and I was listening to poetry on Youtube (yup!)…I will share this one, inspiration for everyone…
            Take care, Happy Mid April!
            Mewannagotosleepzzzzzz…

            Roll the Dice
            by Charles Bukowski

            if you’re going to try, go all the
            way.
            otherwise, don’t even start.

            if you’re going to try, go all the
            way.
            this could mean losing girlfriends,
            wives, relatives, jobs and
            maybe your mind.

            go all the way.
            it could mean not eating for 3 or 4 days.
            it could mean freezing on a
            park bench.
            it could mean jail,
            it could mean derision,
            mockery,
            isolation.
            isolation is the gift,
            all the others are a test of your
            endurance, of
            how much you really want to
            do it.
            and you’ll do it
            despite rejection and the worst odds
            and it will be better than
            anything else
            you can imagine.

            if you’re going to try,
            go all the way.
            there is no other feeling like
            that.
            you will be alone with the gods
            and the nights will flame with
            fire.

            do it, do it, do it.
            do it.

            all the way
            all the way.

            you will ride life straight to
            perfect laughter, its
            the only good fight
            there is.

          • Kirsten

            Howdy Mehadsleepihope,
            Re the other bit..thats great. Followed by by the poem Devil Went Down To Georgia. The one you sent should be a song, I hate poetry BUT believe that song lyrics are the cream of the crop with poetry.
            I listen to music all day everyday…drums the rhythm of life, harmonies people working together to create perfection and allowing the kne shom is best to naturally take the lead role etc.
            Listen to a Kiwi song One Day by Op Shop, youtube it with lyrics. Beautiful, as well as the lyrics alone. A similar story to the poem I think.
            Sorry, I have no drone, and know nothing about you other than what youve said in here, although remember your Native American guide said something as a thought that I assumed was a name, that you said was close to where you life, and instinctly there is an adult daughter or daughter figure and an angel name, that could be yours. Thats it. Although I dont quite believe all your deadlines are for artwork for cereal boxes and things!!!!
            Never had a nde that I recall, but I think Id respond the same as you. What I know is my comfort zone for now, even if my physical body died I think I would choose mortality, the thought of having to shift elsewhere, knowing no one, in a strange land without knowing how it works with just the clothes on my back is far too daunting to comprehend. Obviously not the travelling or backpacking type!!! All I know is going from home, to holiday at other ‘white man’ places in hotels! No interest in other cultures or worlds, I like my boring world!
            Take care, and Happy Jesus Day. Haha.
            K

          • mewabe

            I took out the poem because I did not know anything about this author, but read that he had Nazi sympathies…although he was supposed to be Jewish. Anyway, too much confusion!
            It’s better on Youtube, in audio with music in the background, than in the written form. The guy who reads it has a deep Leonard Cohen type of voice and diction, perfect.

            Yes the song (with lyrics) One Day is beautiful…

            I can’t live without music either…except when I am in the outdoor.

            There was a daughter figure, in truth a step granddaughter but she was like a daughter and very close to me (her actual father was a prick). Now part of my ex family…everyone went their own way. Anyway I was able to help and support her emotionally and psychologically while she was going through a very rough time…her life turned out good…And my real name means, in Hebrew, God Heals, or God’s Healer…of course, what else.

            I have been a kind of a rolling stone most of my life, living in 3 different country, always ready for a new horizon. I have left some good and bad things behind…ran away from my childhood, towards the rising sun, never ever thinking about the future. Leaving friends was difficult…but I am a nomad by nature. Now I am slowing down a bit…although there is another move coming, I am not sure how big.

            For certain, I am never coming back to this world. Being an Israelite as you say, am I a first timer or a repeated offender in the flesh? I never felt I belonged here…not my world at all, although I love nature, but nature is everywhere. Yet I seem to have memories…from other dimensions? I have a very strong affinity with the Pleiades, and felt it way before it became fashionable in new age circles. I don’t even like to mention now. But I can always find them in a dark sky, although they are hard to see, I am drawn to them, something resonates. Most Native Americans mention them as well…

            Take care,
            Happy TGIF day!

          • Rainbow Shell

            hey mewabe Pleiades. .I have been them at times, too very erudite and capable of moving energy through many planes upwards.

            take care. I’m gone for a bit ;))

          • Kirsten

            You’re leaving personal information up here?????
            I cant say about first lifer/reincarnated, but all Israelites HAVE to break through all barriers and get back to an Eden, (above Heaven states), and if they dont, wont or cant, then are reincarnated with no option but to succeed. An Israelites failure to kick butt is taken personally by God.
            Ta for confirming I was right about a real name, and one of my favourites, unfortunately you’ve completely killed it. Screw you!!!!! War paint is on again remember!! Just go by Barry, Kevin or Roger please, leave cool names alone.
            All Israelites are a square peg in a round hole, or round peg in a square hole, life her just doesnt work. Everyone else is just too odd!!!!!
            Take care,
            Kirstatworkanditsboring

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Very well said, my friend!

      • mewabe

        Thanks Annie!

    • Charles

      Mewabe, there are times when you are able to say what I thinking much better than I could. Until you start talking politics, If I was more political I might understand better and find that we agree there as well… Great post!!!

      • mewabe

        Thanks Charles (formerly Jethro)!
        Maweba (formerly Mewabe)

        • Charles

          Your Welcome, Artist currently known as Mewabe.

          The artist formally known as Jethro.

    • Sam

      “Why is it that much of humanity thinks that differences equal conflicts”

      Maybe because different species in nature kill each other. Also, different forces, found in anything, have something of a fight going on. Why does water have to kill fire, can’t they just get along?

      “and that we all have to agree in order to get along?”

      How do I get along with my trump-fan-girlfriend? Only by doing it to a non-topic 🙂
      Any other suggestions? Anyone? I am all ears 🙂

      “Why do we think that we have to all have the same outlook and beliefs, or non-beliefs, in order to have peace?”

      Some years of marriage would tell yea 😉

      “Diversity and multiplicity are the very essence of life, of nature, of the universe itself!”

      Right on, and thank god. Star Trek would be so very boring otherwise 🙂

      • Charles

        I may be exposing myself as a nerd but Star trek addressed many of humanities problems. Thank you Gene Roddenberry.

        • Sam

          Exactly my thought too 🙂

      • mewabe

        So what’s your conclusion Sam, that we all have to think alike to have peace, or that we have no choice but to keep persecuting and killing each other because in your mind differences equal conflicts?

        • Sam

          “So what’s your conclusion Sam, that we all have to think alike to have peace, or that we have no choice but to keep persecuting and killing each other because in your mind differences equal conflicts?”

          I think maybe, first of all, that those big questions in the world, starts at home. How to make relationship work up close, like marriage, family, neighbor, friends. How can we solve anything anywhere, if not at home first?

          I think to express our differences is to make those differences come alive. And with, “express our differences”, I mean disagreement. If I didn’t disagree with you, I only be your copy. And who needs that? 🙂

          To disagree is the whole point, what makes everyone stand out as unique. Peace is not what we want, but high motions, like running a roller coaster, and bursting out, “wooohooo I feel alive! This is Heaven!” And why we do Earth in the first place. Why do you debate — debate, and debate? What other reason can there be, but that you love it? You feel alive, you are in a fight, having your ups and downs of excitement. And maybe, later on, you will think back at this experience as your finest moments, when you stood there in the wind battling things out.

          Yes, we need to think alike to have peace, but peace is not what we want (it’s dull). Our journey starts out in the animal kingdom — at each other’s throat — but as we evolve, something we will move away from. For the creation of a smooth running society (peaceful), it is true that many must come to the same conclusion. Which, of course, is a given, as we are all one, after all.

          • mewabe

            Funny that you would think that peace is dull…but then of course you think peace is death (an absence of motion).

            I do not think that peace is dull, but very alive and vibrant.

            As far as disagreeing…that’s good and productive as long as we don’t do it for the principle of it or to be “right” and prove others “wrong” but because we actually have real ideas that we want to share.

            And no, I do not think that we need to think alike to have peace, not when we are mature adults, although much of the world seems to believe so, so I am not surprised that you do.

            Anyway, I am done debating here, I have had my fill of this totally unproductive activity and waste of time, in which I should never have indulged, especially not with Patrick, who is more driven to prove himself “right”and everyone else “wrong” than anyone else here, including you 🙂

          • Sam

            “Funny that you would think that peace is dull…but then of course you think peace is death (an absence of motion).”

            Do you think so? Peace is motionless, but far from death (as in nothing going on). What a conundrum 🙂

            “I do not think that peace is dull, but very alive and vibrant.”

            And you will have your battery charged. Pure energy. Peace is very good indeed, because motions/life-on-earth takes its toll. In this contrast, it’s a real treat. But without this contrast, you wouldn’t notice a thing. Boring.

            “As far as disagreeing…that’s good and productive as long as we don’t do it for the principle of it or to be “right” and prove others “wrong” but because we actually have real ide as that we want to share.”

            As a human, this is all good and productive thoughts. But from another angle, and to follow things to the very bottom, it seems that disagreement is put in place for the sake of battle, giving you the dance of your life, never to feel more alive. Battle is the key thing happening with all sides of life on earth, and with, and in, all physical things.

            “And no, I do not think that we need to think alike to have peace, not when we are mature adults, although much of the world seems to believe so, so I am not surprised that you do.”

            We need to agree — think alike — about basic traffic rules, or we have chaos. The same goes for a well working and peaceful society.

            “Anyway, I am done debating here, I have had my fill of this totally unproductive activity and waste of time, in which have should never have indulged!”

            You don’t even have to tell me 🙂

        • Sam

          “Come on man, that’s lame…”Why does water have to kill fire, why can’t they get along?””

          Lame? To show you a basic principle in everything? Come on 🙂

          “So now we are not even animals, we are below that, we are elements like water or fire, that lack a brain to think?”

          Basic principles, like for example “all matter is made of atoms”, doesn’t mean you are lacking a brain, I hope 🙂

          “So what’s your conclusion Sam, that we all have to think alike to have peace, or that we have no choice but to keep persecuting and killing each other because in your mind differences equal conflicts?”

          I think maybe, first of all, that those big questions in the world, starts at home. How to make relationship work up close, like marriage, family, neighbor, friends. How can we solve anything anywhere, if not at home first?

          I think to express our differences is to make those differences come alive. And with, “express our differences”, I mean disagreement. If I didn’t disagree with you, I only be your copy. And who needs that? 🙂

          To disagree is the whole point, what makes everyone stand out as unique. Peace is not what we want, but high motions, like running a roller coaster, and bursting out, “wooohooo I feel alive! This is Heaven!” And why we do Earth in the first place. Why do you debate — debate, and debate? What other reason can there be, but that you love it? You feel alive, you are in a fight, having your ups and downs of excitement. And maybe, later on, you will think back at this experience as your finest moments, when you stood there in the wind battling things out.

          Yes, we need to think alike to have peace, but peace is not what we want (it’s dull). Our journey starts out in the animal kingdom — at each other’s throat — but as we evolve, something we will move away from. For the creation of a smooth running society (peaceful), it is true that many must come to the same conclusion. Which, of course, is a given, as we are all one, after all.

          “I understand that it seems to be in your personality to be argumentative and competitive, but at least try to come up with better arguments!”

          Seems a little desperate, purely attacking me the person, what about a good night’s sleep? 🙂

    • Patrick Gannon

      “Patrick thinks Jews started it all.”

      You are intentionally misrepresenting my position, it seems to me, Mewabe, and that’s unusual coming from you. I said that the Jews started the Abrahamic religions. PERIOD. You are grasping one quote, that I have clarified repeatedly, when I said “The Jews started it all.” Clearly and repeatedly I have said I was referring to the Abrahamic religions. Please stop misrepresenting me. Are you Jewish? Is that why you are antagonized? We usually align more closely. If you are Jewish, your people started the religion. You are not “chosen people” by Yahweh, and you have no “promised land” as claimed by the mythical Abraham, and I’m quite confident that you know that.

      We have people knocking on our doors, and proselytizing and competing with other sects, because they grew out of the RELIGION THAT THE JEWS STARTED. If they had not started Judaism, there would have been no Catholicism, which probably means there would have been no Holocaust. Hitler may have chosen some other scapegoat, but after centuries of first Christians and later Muslims denigrating and attacking Jews, they were the best candidate, with which to distract his countrymen.

      Why is Israel surrounded by enemies who want to drive them away? Could it be that those surrounding them are from another ABRAHAMIC religion, which like Judaism says that only it is the one true religion? Could it be that they have a very hard time dealing with the Jewish claim that they are CHOSEN PEOPLE, and they live on their PROMISED LAND? What if the Jews admitted that was all bogus, as it is? Muslims would like that, wouldn’t’ they? As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, they wouldn’t like the acknowledgement that the foundation for their own god has eroded, but at least it would be a starting point. The Jews started the Abrahamic religion; this is undeniable. Please stop misrepresenting my position.

      • mewabe

        To blame the Jews for the misdeeds of Catholics and Hitler is like blaming science (“well, science started it by looking into the atom”) for the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It’s quite a stretch, to say the least, and you know it Patrick…

        • Patrick Gannon

          I did not blame the Jews for the misdeeds of Catholicism. I simply pointed out that Catholicism arose from Judaism and if there had been no Judaism, there would have been no Catholicism. If there had been no Judaism, Hitler likely would have had to find another scapegoat.

          What is up with the straw man attacks? And from you? You’re usually fair and unbiased, but I’ve struck a nerve. What is it? Why are you so hostile to admitting that these religions are without basis? I did not expect that from you.

          • mewabe

            Hey Patrick, you are a reformed Catholic, correct? Reformed by science. But you sound like a reformed drunk…are you trying to beat religion and God out of others or out of yourself?
            I have no love for any religion, I have made this clear many times, but your obsession is almost pathological, and your crusade is quasi religious. I am pointing these things out because you need feedback, and we all know you can take blunt criticism just as much as you can dish it out.
            You found a controversial angle to bring new attention to your agenda…but it doesn’t hold water…the current conflicts in the Middle East are not about religion. They started with territory. And Jews are not the intolerant and authoritarian party in religious conflicts…they are not the ones attempting to impose their religion on the world, they are not proclaiming that they want Judaism to rule the world.

          • Patrick Gannon

            “And Jews are not the intolerant and authoritarian party in religious conflicts…they are not the ones attempting to impose their religion on the world, they are not proclaiming that they want Judaism to rule the world.”

            Show me where I said that the Jews were attempting to impose their religion on the world. Where did I say that? You have joined Miss Annie’s school of Straw Man Debate – putting words into my mouth, again and again, that I did not say.

            I’ll say it again… It’s the RELIGION that they started. It is at the core of most of the fighting in the mid-east. Sunni vs Shia vs Sufis vs Baha’is and Ahmadiyyas vs various sects of Judaism, and Christianity – all fighting over their gods. What is wrong with addressing the thing that they are all fighting over, particularly when we know these gods aren’t real?

            Yes, much of the violence started over property – property the Jews claimed that they as the “chosen people” were entitled to as their “promised land,” but this position is bogus, and what harm can come from admitting that? What discussion might it spark? Muslims hate that the Jews refer to themselves as “chosen people.” How can admitting that this designation holds no water, not be attractive to them? But then they have to face the reality that their own god is built on that same foundation.

            I am a recovering Catholic. I have no idea what a “reformed” Catholic means, and yes, just like Neale, my upbringing has an impact on who I am – once the synapses fire, the brain is wired, and I was duly indoctrinated. You never completely get over that garbage. I don’t know what that has to do with proposing a global conversation about the veracity of the religions that people use as excuses to kill each other.

            When blunt criticism means personal insults, then the discussion has become fruitless. If there are blunt criticisms of my idea that stand up to scrutiny that’s a different thing altogether, but I’ve heard much more about myself, and much less about my idea in this conversation. Why won’t my idea work? You took one stab at it – try another angle. Illustrate that it’s unworkable and I’ll take that to heart. Why else would I subject myself to so much abuse if I didn’t want honest feedback over the idea?

          • mewabe

            I will post it again since you don’t seem to be able to read clearly:
            the current conflicts in the Middle East are not about religion. They started long ago with territory (Israel-Palestine).
            We are not trying to oust Assad in the name of Christianity, anymore than we invaded Iraq and created this whole mess in the name of religion, or applauded the killing of Muammar Gaddafi in the name of religion.
            Frame your argument better if you want to be taken seriously.

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            Yes, but of course, it must be remembered that George W. Bush told that he started war on Iraq because God commanded him so…

          • mewabe

            Yes, but that is not the reason why he did it. Bush was a fool and a tool of the Neocons. The Neocons had proposed it way before Bush…regime change in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Iran. That’s an imperialistic agenda of American world dominance…not a religious agenda.

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            Of course…

            Supported and feeded as you know, by the israeli lobbies in USA and everywhere… Of course, supporting the interests of zionist Israel…

            Everything is mixed at its foundation.

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            I mean: religious beliefs and politics, economics, geopolitics are all mixed… Really entangled.

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            Hey! I forgot to mention: supported and feeded not only by very powerful zionist lobbies, but ALSO for fundamentalist christian lobbies and agendas…

            And of course the fundamentalist christian leagues such as the ‘south biblical belt’, etc.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            He was also royally PO’d that Saddam Hussein put a mural of the elder President Bush at the entrance to one of his palaces. Any of Hussein’s loyalists who did not spit on it while walking on it were reported to Hussein.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • mewabe

            So if there had been no science, there would have been no Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That’s logical, ain’t it? Is your conclusion that there should be no science? You are using the same logic and conclusion about Judaism.

          • Patrick Gannon

            You’re comparing apples and oranges.

            Science had nothing to do with the decision to drop the atomic bombs. That was a political decision that religion surely played a role in. Blowing up non-Christians like the Japanese, was surely a simpler decision than blowing up German Christians. I can’t help but think if the war had dragged on longer, the President would have really agonized over killing other Christians, but I suspect the amount of agonized decision making over killing non-caucasians who weren’t Christian, was much less.

          • mewabe

            I guess you never heard of the bombing of Dresden, and of how Germany was so totally demolished by the allied forces that a Marshall plan was necessary to help build it back up from ashes, as well as Japan?
            And no I am not making a comparison, I am showing you how your logic and conclusion about Judaism are faulty.

      • Victor Lopez Rossi

        What’s happening here???????

        Again, my comment is “waiting for approval”!!!

        I didn’t use hard language, nor use quotes, nor put links, nor other things that I know are not permitted here…

        What’s happening?

        It’s the fourst time that this occurs in this topic with one of my commentaries…!!!

        • Victor Lopez Rossi

          Might it be that I mentioned the term “zionism”. Is that the problem?

          Would it be a problem mentioning zionism here?

          • Patrick Gannon

            How many tabs or windows do you have open? I find that if I have a bunch of tabs open from responding to notices from email, that I run into problems. If I close all the windows or tabs except the one I’m responding to, I get better results.

            It’s a lousy blog platform. It’s almost impossible to keep track of a thread when it gets drawn out with multiple respondents.

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            No, that’s not the problem.

            I have just one window open.

          • Kirsten

            Sometimes people get censored, I often do. Neale denies it.
            K

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            I copied the censored comment in other place. I’ll put it here, to see what happens…:

            And there’s another very BIG issue here: ZIONISM.

            ZIonism is the core reason for middle east troubles.

            UN created Israel nation due to the efforts of zionism to come back to their ‘promised land’. So, they stole palestinian territories for doing that, and ok, that started real conflict. Bloody conflict. Of course, Israel was surrounded by ‘enemies’. Of course, the ‘enemies’ created for
            whom their land was stolen in the first place. And after that, the
            borders fixed by UN have been violated again and again leaving almost no land at all for palestinians.

            Zionism is an authoritarian, racist, supremacist, and violent faction of judaism. Not all judaism is
            zionist. The trouble is that it RULES in Israel.

            Zionism of course arised from religion. From abrahamic religion. From biblical myths.

            Though zionism is not ONLY about religion. It has wide consequences in geopolitical issues. And it is the cause of part of the bloodshed in middle east.

            By the other hand, we have the israeli lobbie in USA.
            A lobbie for economics, policies and war, very, very influential in
            politics. It is not about religion but their conceptions arised from
            abrahamic religion: the chosen people, the promised land, the god’s people, etc.

            A very important point to be noticed: not all jews
            are zionist. Nor all jews share the vision of israeli lobbies. For
            example, Noam Chomsky, etc.

            There are the anti-zionist jews for example, that claim for palestinian rights.

      • Victor Lopez Rossi

        I replied to this comment writing about the zionist problem. That arises precisely from abrahamic religion. A big issue, if you think about Israel, israeli lobbies in USA, etc.

        But it seems that somebody doesn’t like this comment. It has been censored again. Fourth time that it occurs here with one of my comments.

        And by the way, I only mentioned zionism in my last comment. Just once.

        Let’s see if this comment shows up…

      • mewabe

        Patrick, what did the Jews start? Do you actually believe that they are responsible for the birth of Christianity and Islam, and the bad actions these two religions subsequently inspired?

        You have a son…would you be held responsible if he killed someone?

        The fact that the Jews created Judaism does not make them responsible for the current conflict in Syria. To believe that if they repudiated their religious beliefs the conflicts in the Middle East would cease or decrease in intensity is naive beyond belief.

        Again Patrick, you have an agenda which you clearly stated many times…which is not just to get rid of religions or of detrimental religious beliefs, but to get rid of all beliefs in a divine source. I am really curious as to what is truly driving you, psychologically. Again I think your brain has been wired for dogma by your Catholic upbringing, you have simply replaced the catholic dogma with the New Age dogma, which was then replaced with the atheist dogma.

        You are proselytizing atheism with the same fanaticism as any believer. What is it in you that causes you to be unable to accept and respect other people’s worldview, as long as they do not try to convert you? You sound as zealous as a Jehovah witness!

        The only problem I see with religion is when people try to convert others, of force others to convert. Otherwise, I do not see a problem…beliefs evolve naturally, lessons are learnt, and people choose what they want to believe. Most people pick and choose a few aspects of their religious teachings that they resonate with and leave the rest.

        Again, only authoritarians have strict dogmatic beliefs and attempt to impose them on others. Authoritarianism is a psychological problem…a people problem, not a problem of beliefs.

        • Patrick Gannon

          I can’t make myself understood, apparently. Their religion spawned Christianity and Judaism, but that’s neither here nor there. The issue is – how do we get the conversation started on a global scale? Kumbaya conversations aren’t going to do it. Let’s do away with Jews alone and have a conglomeration of Christians, Jews and Muslims who announce the same thing I proposed earlier – that the foundation has washed away, and present the evidence for that, and suggest that there is no divine right to land or any chosen people; and then let the chips fall where they may. The idea is to generate an uproar. Based on what happened here, it looks like that would work. It could very well start the conversation. Look how much ink was spilled at the very suggestion!!!

          You can believe whatever you want about me, that’s of little consequence. I’m interested in finding a way to get the world to have the discussion it needs to have.

          Have you noticed that nobody here has actually tried to refute the reasons I’ve given for why the foundation has washed away? The objections are all knee-jerk reactions when the word “Jew” is used, such that I must be a racist, and that I have an agenda to get rid of religion. So what if I do have an agenda. This is a specific idea designed to try and spark a global conversation. Obviously you and several others think it’s a lousy idea. OK. I got that. Your vote has been processed. You can let it go now.

  • Charles

    Thank you Mewabe! For me this is the biggest question.

    “”””Why is it that much of humanity thinks that differences equal conflicts, and that we all have to agree in order to get along?”””

    What happened to that time when we were politely curious about something? Beliefs are not contagious, we have to want to believe to contract beliefs.

    What can we possibly do or say that will bring the understanding that every person is different without opening our mouths and why must we be the same while thinking or talking? It’s a people problem, not a God problem.

    • Patrick Gannon

      I disagree. I think beliefs are contagious. I am in sales. When I believe in the product I am selling, I am far more successful than when I do not.

      We don’t all have to agree; I don’t think anyone has proposed that here. Certainly not me. We need to face up to facts though. The sun does not go around the earth. The stars are not holes poked in the firmament. There was no six day creation, no two-person DNA bottleneck, no global flood, no mass Exodus and no conquest of Canaan. These things aren’t beliefs, other than in a debunked primitive book of myths. We know these things with a very high degree of certainty. Facts and truth deserve a place at the table. We can’t ignore them forever.

      The problem in the middle east – again going back to the origin of my proposal in response to Neale’s request for solutions, is indeed a god problem, in my view. They are killing each other over religion; over imaginary invisible beings that live in the sky. It’s idiotic, and we need to start the discussion to end it. Can you propose a better way than the one I’ve proposed to start the discussion, or are you of the camp that says it’s not a solvable problem, so let’s just let them continue to hate and kill each other over their imaginary gods until it affects the rest of us with nuclear dust?

      • Charles

        I am in sales myself, which is why I’m always waiting for the catch, or why does somebody show interest in something or after learning I’m a plumber why does somebody say they wish to be friends. We don’t need to sell anything if we shut up long enough to let people tell us what they need and meet that need.

        I told you in another post what I think and you keep redirecting. Why ask the question?

      • mewabe

        Beliefs are contagious? That sounds like a very unscientific statement. Do you have access to social studies that proves it? Or is it just your belief?

        • Kirsten

          Never caught it either.
          K

      • Charles

        I’m sorry to hear of your loss my friend. Whether it was time or not.

        No, we don’t have to agree. The sun does not go around the earth. The stars are not holes poked in the firmament. There was no six day creation, no two-person DNA bottleneck, no global flood, no mass Exodus and no conquest of Canaan. These things aren’t beliefs, other than in a debunked primitive book of myths. We know these things with a very high degree of certainty. Facts and truth deserve a place at the table. We can’t ignore them forever. If you are looking for another to agree with that, Ok. So now we both agree on that. There are things in holy books that aren’t true, I already knew that. I still have a problem with the tower of Babel which hasn’t been proven one way or the other. Maybe the Jews never had a promised land, they are there now, and aside from the Bible nobody states they are the chosen people “that I know of”.

        So now back to Syria….. You say they are…., “They are killing each other over religion; over imaginary invisible beings that live in the sky. It’s idiotic, and we need to start the discussion to end it.”

        “How did the war in Syria begin?
        Long before the conflict began, many Syrians complained about high unemployment, widespread corruption, a lack of political freedom and state repression under President Bashar al-Assad, who succeeded his father, Hafez, in 2000.
        In March 2011, pro-democracy demonstrations inspired by the Arab Spring erupted in the southern city of Deraa. The government’s use of deadly force to crush the dissent soon triggered nationwide protests demanding the president’s resignation.
        Anti-government protesters on the streets of the Syrian city of Deraa on 23 March 2011 As the unrest spread, the crackdown intensified. Opposition supporters began to take up arms, first to defend themselves and later to expel security forces from their local areas. Mr Assad vowed to crush “foreign-backed terrorism” and restore state control. The city of Homs, dubbed “the capital of the revolution” suffered widespread destruction
        The violence rapidly escalated and the country descended into civil war as hundreds of rebel brigades were formed to battle government forces for control of the country.”

        The biggest ethnic/religious group in Syria are the Sunni Muslim Arabs. Shia Islam is the second big sect of after Sunni Islam, to which about 12% of Syrians adhere to. The majority of these followers are Alawites, as is President Assad. Although the Alawites are a minority in the country, they have held control over almost all aspects of the government since 1971
        The Druze are followers of an 10th century off-shoot of Shia Islam. The Kurds are also Sunni Muslims. Turkmen have positioned themselves against Assad and ISIS. Assyrians are Christians

        So now we know how the war started, which religions are involved and I’m still wondering how its going to stop if Judaism and/or Abrahamic religions step up to deny themselves.

        Given what started the war, I’d say treat everyone like human beings and THAT war will end. But there are other wars and starving people and homelessness. if Judaism and/or Abrahamic religions step up to deny themselves, how is any of that going to change?

        I have to conclude that there is a multitude of bad ideas being implemented that is behind most of these problems that are not related to a Jewish religion. Don’t you think we would do better to change the way we are thinking about humans….Without the kumbaya.

    • mewabe

      I agree Charles, it’s a people problem. Humans have to evolve past their tribalism, and transcend the “in-group” versus “out-group” mentality. Otherwise we are no better than a bunch of gang members.

      • Charles

        Thank you Mewabe, I knew somebody out there must have understood that.

        • Spiritual_Annie

          I got it, too. 😀

          • Charles

            Thanks Annie!

  • Victor Lopez Rossi

    What’s happening here???????

    Again, my comment is “waiting for approval”!!!

    I didn’t use hard, vitriolic, or hateful language, nor use quotes, nor put links, nor other things that I know are not permitted here…

    What’s happening?

    It’s the fourst time that this occurs in this topic with one of my commentaries…!!!

  • Victor Lopez Rossi

    I think a clue could be founded here:

    As Mewabe said, now
    Christians don’t kill jews and crhistians don’t kill amongst them. Or
    not so much as centuries before. Christians just kill muslims now. A
    little advance! (bad joke).

    How did we get this? How we got to the
    point of not killing jews or other christians for their beliefs? We’d
    have to research History to know.

    One conclusion would be: they used PART of their core religious beliefs for that.

    So, I think that we could use part of religion for debunking part of religion. Do I get understood?

    Another idea:

    Part of religion HAS debunked part of religious mithology. Many JEWS and
    CHRISTIANS, DO KNOW, that the Bible and religious beliefs are mitholoy,
    and nothing have to do with Love, Harmony, Peace, or other constructive
    human values. So, we could work with these people that have debunked
    religious myths, but keep what they believe is the essence of religion:
    Love, Fraternity, Peace, Respect, Freedom, etc.

    These religious people have advanced a lot ALREADY, in having a kind of global and
    diverse conversations usually known as ECUMENISM.

    I think Ecumenism could be an excellent tool for achieving what you’re proposing, Patrick.

    Again, spiritual beliefs I think NEVER will be destroyed or abandoned, but
    yes, I think that we can trascend the authoritarian, sectarian,
    fundamentalist, and coercitive anti-values of religion.

    Everything towards secular societies and states. That are well informed about the
    dangers of sectarian religion and educate their peoples in that and
    respect for cultural diversity. In a new scale and depth.

  • Victor Lopez Rossi

    Authoritarianism and separatism are the problems, of course, supported and commanded for authoritarian, primitive, sectarian, fundamentalist religion and their
    ‘sacred books’.

    I think that if we contribute to take away authoritarianism, sectarism, fundamentalism from religions, they perfectly could continue.

    And if we help to highlight the visions or seed of Oneness in all religions and spiritual paths, and starting to found new ground for sharing life together as ONE human family we’ll be doing the rest.

    I have no trouble if somenoe wants to worship a god, a stone, a star, an animal, or a piece of wood.

    The trouble is when that someone wants to impose their beliefs to others by
    violence, manipulation, or social constraints. That leads to war and
    more violence.

    And when cutural memes, expresed in political, economical, social, etc., views have emerged from religious beliefs, it is a major problem.

    Which is just our case.

    Oneness spirituality and secular societies enlightened by respect of cultural diversity is the solution. Diversity of Unity and Unity of Diversity integrated in all our social structures.

    Blessings

  • Patrick Gannon

    Ladies and gentlemen, I have enjoyed what I intended as a discussion, but which turned into a debate that attempts to shift the discussion from issues to personalities. I have to take your leave though. My dad died recently and I have to prepare to go out of town to the funeral and have arrangements to make, so I can’t stay here and defend my position to the few who want to debate the position rather than me personally. The Straw Men have once again been set free, and various attempts have been made to attack my person rather than my ideas. That’s fine. I come away from the debate, encouraged that my idea encountered no reasonable opposition. If anyone has suggestions for an influential Jewish group who might be interested in kicking off such a project, please let me know.

    Hopefully I can jump back into it in a few days. I look forward to Neale’s “observation” or plan to address the use of chemical bombs in Syria, and hopefully he will have some comments relating to the larger picture.

    • Victor Lopez Rossi

      I’d suggest rabbi Michael Lerner site, “Tikkun”… You could find support for your ideas there…

      • Patrick Gannon

        Interesting… Thanks.

    • Mateia Andrei (A true friend)

      I’m sorry that you have such a hard time Patrick. Guess will have to postpone this chat.

    • Victor Lopez Rossi

      And please receive my condolences for your father’s departure. Peace for you and your family…

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Patrick,

      I did propose an alternative, but you missed it. I’m​sending love and light your way over the next few days as you deal with your father’s passing over.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Patrick Gannon

        No, I didn’t miss it; I just saw nothing to respond to.

        It doesn’t provide a mechanism to kick off that discussion, in the same way my proposal does – but if you can come up with a way to gain the attention of those leaders in order to start that conversation, I’m interested in hearing more. We already have the UN, which ostensibly has a charter to do what you have proposed, but I don’t see that making much progress.

        I don’t think it’s naive to think that people will discard their religion – it’s already happening. The fastest growing “religious” group is the “Nones.” Think in longer terms – in decades or generations, rather than in months or years.

        Thank you for your thoughts, but I have to point out that you have no way to actually send love and light through space to me. My father’s passing is a blessed relief, so there is little sadness to deal with after years of debilitating medical issues.

        Seriously though, I do need to walk away from this for a while to take care of some open issues.

        • Spiritual_Annie

          “Nothing to respond to?” Because it doesn’t align with your desire to kill religion?

          The mechanism is obviously an invitation to the table to discuss these basic human rights, and an agreement thereto by those who concur.

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            Tell me how you are going to put that in place.

            What I would do, what I probably will do now, following the success of my idea to generate conversation well above and beyond my expectations, is to begin contacting Jewish organizations that might be in a position to implement the plan I’ve proposed. Obviously I will have to see if there is any interest, but there are many Jewish atheists, and many in influential, public positions whose voices would be listened to, if I can find the right people to buy into the idea. If they submitted the treatise I’ve suggested on the world stage – perhaps get it read at the UN – I think there’s a good chance the discussion would start.

            Now you tell me how you are going to start yours. Neale isn’t going to spearhead something like this. Who do you go after? And invite them to do what? How does your plan get implemented? How many people will it reach?

            How many people have said, over and over again for endless years, that we all need to sit down at the table and discuss this, and time and again, nothing is done. If my idea worked, it could spark a global discussion – the very thing this forum is supposed to be about.

    • Rainbow Shell

      Well, the Straw Man doesn’t ever last long, so don’t worry people usually see through him eventually. At any rate, I’m sorry to hear about your dad.

      Safe journeying!

      M

    • Kirsten

      Patrick..obviously sorry about your father.
      No one has attempted to take a discussion to personality issues. People will respond how they respond, you are well aware that you deliberately antagonise and ignore or dismiss everyone elses experiences, truths and views, because scientists cant prove it to you.
      For the record, I support eye for an eye. You asked for a food fight, I have given you one the last two days…playing your game, your way, by your rules. Dismissing your views as crock or dismissing those whom form your views as irrelevant, as you do to mine and others!! You got what you asked for, a food fight! And now suddenly its ‘mean’ and a personal attack?? You reap what you sow sometimes. Listen to the song Perfect Day.
      Anyway take care,
      K, with a smile as always.

      • Patrick Gannon

        Go back and look at the posts, and see how many deal with the actual idea I raised and how many are directed to questioning my goals, agenda and character.

        It was misfortunate that I mentioned my little experiment with you, but clearly I’m not the only one playing games here. I enjoy a good food fight.

        • Charles

          Morning Patrick, I sent you a post lastnight and tried to write it out in such a way that you would accept it as a debate and not an insulting derailment of your suggestion. It was seen as spam so Im working on getting it posted.

        • Kirsten

          Misfortunate that you mentioned your experiment with me…..haha, Ive made it clear Im studing psychology, you’re a fun ‘hypothetical’ case study!!!
          But, games should be open, and played with more than one player.

  • Spiritual_Annie

    NOTE: I am reposting part of an earlier comment here because Patrick has apparently missed it, repeatedly saying that no one else has come up with a proposal.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Now, let’s get really real. People aren’t going to give up their religions on someone else’s say-so. (And, being Jewish is being part of a race of people—an ethnicity—not just membership in a religion.) Even with archaeological and other scientific proofs that parts of the Torah, Bible and Q’ran aren’t literally true, religious belief is a personal choice. If the most respected elders of all the world’s religions were to declare that their religions are based on (at best) half-truths and should be abandoned doesn’t mean the people themselves will do so. To think they would is, I believe, naive.

    Why not just leave religious and spiritual choice out of it altogether? Since it’s personal, let it be and use another approach.

    I prefer the idea of building rather than deconstructing. I would like to see the powers-that-be of all of the world’s nations (the elite, the politicians, and the religious and spiritual leaders) come together to have a truly global conversation. I would prefer to approach it from a point of building on commonalities rather than differences. We could start with:

    We all have a right to life by virtue of having been born, so killing of all kinds should stop.

    We all need to breathe, so it’s in our best interest to not destroy the air with noxious chemicals and nuclear mushroom clouds.

    We all need to eat, so it’s in our best interest to not deplete the soil with harmful chemicals, or destroy it with land mines, or cause fissures with underground nuclear weapons testing.

    We all need shelter, so it’s in our best interest to not destroy buildings with bombs.

    We all need water, so it’s in our best interest to not pollute our rivers and oceans with the waste of war.

    Those are ideas human beings can get behind. Not just one religion or another (Abrahamic or not). Not just one sect or another. There could be global inspection teams to ensure no one is acting against our best interests. (I’d prefer the honor system, myself.) Then we could move on to other matters in the interest of humanity, like global warming, petroleum pollution, etc.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • Patrick Gannon

      I can’t find the post I wanted to directly respond to and don’t have time to search for it, so I’ll put it here.

      I’ve been attacked for proposing that a distinguished panel of Jews, disavow that Israel has any divine right as “chosen people” to a “promised land.” Antagonism to this idea has been pretty fierce, so I have to ask…

      Does this mean that you DO agree that Israel does in fact have divine right to this land? Do you believe that Yahweh granted this “promised land” to his “chosen people” as it says in the bible?

      Or is it that you don’t want anyone to admit this out loud? It’s like “don’t ask, don’t tell.”

      • Kirsten

        I believe it. Ffs, its one small piece of land, the Israelite family. Your obsession is unhealthy, move on.
        K

        • Patrick Gannon

          I knew you would believe it; which is why I anticipated that you would be one of the few to object. I was stunned at the opposition to the idea. Many who have claimed here, over and over again, that the legacy religions have caused all sorts of problems, now hypocritically decry the idea that a group of people coming from that religion would publicly admit that they are not “chosen people” and have no divine right to a “promised land.” I’m absolutely flabbergasted at the hypocrisy.

          • mewabe

            I did not see anyone here writing that they believed the Jewish people had a Divine right to the land. If someone specifically wrote that, quote it. Otherwise you are using the straw man attack you so often denounce.

            The Jews however have a historical right to the land of Israel. It is their land.

            Quote from U.S. Senator James Inhofe:

            “The first reason that Israel has the right to the land is because of all of the archeological evidence. All the archeological evidence supports it. Every time there is a dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the fact that Israelis have had a presence there for 3,000 years. The coins, the cities, the pottery, the culture — there are other people, groups that are there, but there is no mistaking the fact that Israelis have been present in that land for 3,000 years. It predates any claims that other peoples in the region may have.
            The ancient Philistines are extinct. Many other ancient peoples are extinct. They do not have the unbroken line to this date that the Israelis have. Even the Egyptians of today are not racial Egyptians of 2,000, 3,000 years ago. They are primarily an Arab people. The land is called Egypt, but they are not the same racial and ethnic stock as the old Egyptians of the ancient world.
            The Israelis are in fact descended from the original Israelites.

            The second proof of Israel’s right to the land is the historic right. History supports it totally and completely. We know there has been an Israel up until the time of the Roman Empire. The Romans conquered the land. Israel had no homeland, although Jews were allowed to live there. They were driven from the land in two dispersions: One in 70 A.D. and the other in 135 A.D. But there was always a Jewish presence in the land.”

          • Patrick Gannon

            I have not once suggested that the Jews should give up their land. I have only suggested that they start a conversation by acknowledging in a large and public way by influential members of their clan, that they have no divine right to the land as “chosen people” and a “promised land.” I have repeatedly pointed out that they were granted the land by the UN and not their god. I concur with the reasons the UN did it. I have not once suggested that they leave.

            Muslims abhor the concept that Jews are “chosen people.” It drives them crazy. What sort of conversation might start if an influential group of Jews simply admitted this, and provided their reasons for doing so?

            Maybe the idea is futile, but nobody has convinced me of that.

            By the way, Kirsten said, right above this that she believes it. She apparently believes Yahweh literally spoke with Abraham, and divinely selected the “chosen people” and designated their “promised land.” Consequently it is logical to assume that she must believe that at least some of the five pillars are still in place – six day creation, DNA bottleneck, global flood, Exodus and Conquest. She may take the entire thing literally. I expected that. I didn’t expect so much opposition from you, but there seemed to be no other option given your strong opposition to the idea, unless you too thought it was all via divine intervention. If a bunch of Jews want to admit the truth, what’s the problem?

      • Spiritual_Annie

        I believe that Israel has a legal right, as a country, to the land the UN agreed to because Jewish people were being systematically exterminated worldwide.

        Should it have been those particular lands? I’m not sure. The Temple and other parts of the Torah indicate it was once their land but it was lost in war. There’s been no other land where the Jewish people had ancestral history, so in that way it makes sense, but to be surrounded by enemies meant there would always be conflict. An inelegant solution, but where else could the Jewish people claim rights to land for their own country? Nowhere I know of.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Patrick Gannon

          You didn’t answer the question. Do the Jewish people have a divine right, to their “promised land” as “chosen people” selected and guided by a literal Yahweh? Yes or no?

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Since my experiences with Divinity aren’t usually through personification in any form and don’t believe much of the Torah is to be taken literally, it would be pretty ridiculous for me to say I believe Yaweh “granted” the land to the ancient Israelites. But it’s not my opinion that matters. It’s the experiences and beliefs of the Jewish people, both ancient and contemporary, that does.

            Why are you so doggedly persistent at trying to pin me down to a yes or no answer? I had already given you my opinion, and you’ve read my beliefs here often enough to have known how I experience Divinity. What’s the purpose of pushing me to answer again?

            BTW, I think (with a high degree of probability based on my experiences with people over my lifetime) that it takes a pretty cold person to turn a heartfelt, compassionate expression of condolences into yet another debate. It just proves to me that you enjoy debating much more than you do in having a real interaction with real people.

            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            So, if you agree that the Torah is not to be taken literally, and a bunch of influential Jews want to admit that – what the heck is the problem?

            Sorry about my dismissal of your condolences – that was the stress talking…

            I do enjoy interaction with real people, but I’m not sure how many people on this forum are “real people.” I’m one of the very few who uses his real name.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Read it again, Patrick. I said much of the Torah, not the whole thing, and that it’s not my opinion that matters.

            The problem, as I see it, is setting up just one group of people who are already under attack from all sides (literally​ and figuratively) to do your bidding in bringing down religion. It would make them even more of a target, from within for those who would agree to do it. Why not all three religions? Why just Judaism?

            And you didn’t answer my question.

            Thank you for the apology. And my real name is Ann, but I go by Annie. I don’t use my last name because one of my ex partners has stalked me online, bothering a friend of mine as recently as six months ago. Since he’s a convicted murderer who threatened to kill me if I ever left, I’d prefer he not find me.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            Right, it’s not your opinion that matters. The opinions that would matter would be those influential Jews who agreed with the idea and elected to implement it. I challenged you to tell me how you would implement what I’ve referred to as a Kumbaya plan, but the same challenge applies to me. I have looked at the publication Victor referred me to, and I need to look further. They are close, but maybe not quite what I’m looking for. Of course if there are insufficient persons who are influential enough to make the effort worthwhile in order to put this in action, the idea is moot for now. I’m not exactly a community organizer, so if the idea has merit (I’ve never heard anyone else suggest anything like it), then I could try to get the idea to someone who could validate it and get it in the hands of someone who could begin to organize it.

            I suspect that right now there aren’t enough who would participate. I think there are a lot of non-believers in the closet, and probably more so on the Jewish side, because they are generally well educated. On the other hand, because of who they are they are closely tied to their traditions and culture and as persecuted people, just like LGBTs, it takes a certain amount of courage to come out of the closet.

            It should be possible to get a large, influential group of Atheists, Christians and a handful of Muslims to try something like this, but it would mean so much more coming from the people who have been persecuted in large part, for insisting that they are “chosen people” with a “promised land.” I’d think at some point they would want to walk those words back and try to start healing old wounds.

            Sorry, what question didn’t I answer? Was it, why I was trying to pin you down? Because if you said you believed in a literal interpretation, as Kirsten apparently does, then the discussion is over. On the other hand, if you acknowledge that Yahweh did not say and do these things for Abraham, then I have to ask, what’s wrong with saying that, declaring it, acknowledging it? It’s the truth. When is it ever wrong to fail to acknowledge the truth? There were no “chosen people” and there was no “promised land.” I’m under the impression that you agree with that, which means we have grounds to continue talk about the feasibility or impact of the idea. Aside from a question about the word for “day” you haven’t objected to the other pillars having washed out (creation, DNA, flood, Exodus, Conquest). All objections seem to center around the idea of freeing Jews from the bonds that tie them to words that have contributed to their persecution for centuries… chosen people, promised land. Don’t jump to Mewabe’s conclusion that I’m suggesting throwing them off their land. Think of it as a cry: “Please stop hating us. We acknowledge that we are not divinely chosen people, and ask that you forgive any implication that we were better than anyone else as a result. The Muslims would love that. Of course, the reason they come to this conclusion is that the foundation washed out – so that too will enter into the discussion; but what a statement to the Muslim world: “We’re sorry. We didn’t mean to imply we are better than you. We thought the Abrahamic god was real. He’s not. Let’s talk about it.”

            ………………..
            I keep telling myself I don’t have time for this, yet keep finding time for just one more response.. I hate to not respond to people who take the time to post a question or comment, but you guys should get a little break from me. Count your blessings! Get some good weather in NE FL for me!

          • Spiritual_Annie

            “The opinions that would matter would be those influential Jews who agreed with the idea and elected to implement it.”

            I think more opinions than that would matter. The opinions of all those who practice Judaism would matter. The opinions of the Israeli government would matter. The opinions of all the people of Israel would matter.

            “I challenged you to tell me how you would implement what I’ve referred to as a Kumbaya plan…”

            OK, then I’ll refer to yours as the “Pie-in-the-Sky Kill Religion” plan.

            “We’re sorry. We didn’t mean to imply we are better than you. We thought the Abrahamic god was real. He’s not. Let’s talk about it.”

            Seriously? You think that any Muslim would want to start talks based on a denial of their God? Muslims call their God Allah, but it’s still the God of Abraham, and the original Muslims considered themselves to be the descendants of his son, Ishmael. Why would they want to come to the table to talk when the statement denies Allah, and nearly denies their own ancestral lineage?

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            It’s not intended as a gentle proposition, but rather a much more blunt and forceful proposition. Big changes require big moves. The idea here is a big move. Of course people will be ticked off – that’s the whole idea… get them talking, yelling, cussing, but ultimately communicating.

            The world went through a big change with Galileo, that affected the Church and all of Europe in a highly significant way. We people, and our world were not the center of everything – and that changed everything.

            I suppose you could make the argument that these people are just too stupid, too ingrained, too indoctrinated, to ever consider changing, but I don’t buy that. The Arab world in the 10th and 11th century was the center of technical, scientific and social progress until a famous Inman said math was the work of the devil, and they have never recovered from that. It’s time to start the recovery.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            And who’s to say that coming out with a denial of Allah, the fundamentalist Muslims wouldn’t just nuke Israel over it? Who’s to say that it wouldn’t cause more violence instead of arguing and debate?

            FYI, the appropriate title is Imam, or Caliphate, depending on whether they are in charge of a community or are descendants of Muhammad.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            Jews and Christians already deny Allah. Any Muslim country that tried to nuke Israel would cease to exist.

            Thanks for correcting my spelling.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            The Jewish people and Christians may deny that God is Allah, that Muhammad was a prophet, and Islam is the “wrong” religion, but it is the God of Abraham in all three religions as experienced by three different Messengers. Do you really think that intelligent Muslims and Christians won’t be able to discern that the statement you want “influential” or “prominent” Jewish people to put out will also lead to undermining their respective religions?

            So you’re willing to risk even more violence, including nuclear war, , to further your own agenda?

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            I don’t see it that way. Intelligent, and particularly “educated” people know these gods don’t exist. The whole idea is to get these intelligent and educated people out of the closet, so to speak. Of course they will discern that the goal is to undermine the Abrahamic religions. You don’t believe in the Abrahamic gods, but you seem to assume other people are too stupid to realize they don’t exist. That strikes me as a bit patronizing and condescending.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            You’re entitled to see it any way you choose. Each of us is.

            However, let me make this perfectly clear for you. I am an intelligent and educated individual. I don’t know that “these gods” don’t exist, even though it’s been proven to my satisfaction that portions of any sacred text may not be literally true. I don’t dismiss that God may exist but have been misread or misinterpreted by the fallible human beings who wrote the texts, some of which were codified from earlier oral traditions, or been perverted by human beings in the religions to which they’re attached for other than Spiritual gain.

            I certainly don’t think “other people are too stupid to realize they don’t exist.” I merely allow each individual their right to decide for themselves.

            For someone who complains about personal attacks, you’ve certainly made it personal right here. So, who’s the one being “patronizing and condescending,” not to mention hypocritical? Or should I assume you’ve run out of logical arguments or are suffering some form of cognitive dissonance, like you do with others?

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            In order for people “to decide for themselves” they need the opportunity to hear the other side of the story.

            This discussion has become futile, and I have family issues to attend to. Yes, your attitude – to me – appears to be condescending and patronizing. It seems to me that you feel that any change that challenges others beliefs, which might hurt their feelings, should be avoided. I guess we should have let the sun continue to orbit the earth.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I agree that it’s now become futile, with your last reply, as you​made it personal a few replies back and continued to do so.

          • Rainbow Shell

            Just because you use your real name doesn’t mean you’re necessarily real, does it? At any rate, let me know if the weather was good in FL. I might be moving there soon 🙂

    • Rainbow Shell

      I agree, Annie. We need to take care of the world’s needs and forget the methods for solving aggressive backwoods behavior that we’ve been relying upon ie. the tendency to simply bomb rather than resolve with peaceful means problems for everyone. I think sometimes destruction of an old method is necessary and it can be had by deconstruction of old ideas that don’t sustain life. It is necessary to deconstruct our ancient belief that violence sustains life in order to rebuild the playing field and perpetuate our species.

      Actually, what we need is a total detonation of the method called aggression first, think second. We don’t need to build and keep on building that kind of heaping world of dead soldiers and soldiers who need rehabilitation just to survive the trauma of senseless war. The deconstriction of our most strongly held beliefs about how to handle a dangerous situation is what we need. We need to build from a new idea like peace, love, compassion, understanding, wisdom, faith, patience but when there is a bomb in the air, we have to deconstruct the thing coming right at us and rebuild again. That is what I fear most if we don’t find a better way sooner rather than later.

    • Patrick Gannon

      ‘ I would like to see the powers-that-be of all of the world’s nations (the elite, the politicians, and the religious and spiritual leaders) come together to have a truly global conversation.”

      That’s just not going to happen unless there is some pivotal event that brings them to the table. That’s the purpose behind my idea.

      • Spiritual_Annie

        You don’t think that the use of chemical weapons to kill civilians, the continuous battles against IS (including the recent use of the MOAB in Afghanistan), the referendum in Turkey being voted on today that would give their President nearly unlimited and unchecked power, the deterioration of US-Russian diplomatic relationships, the heightened tensions between the US and North Korea, the development of nuclear weapons by North Korea, Iran, Pakistan and India, and the election of an unstable, narcissistic sexual assault perpetrator in the US whose tweets have eroded diplomatic relationships isn’t “pivotal” enough? (Not to mention the statistics Neale mentions about starving children, lack of sanitation, lack of access to clean water and electricity.)

        I think anyone willing to sign your declaration wouldn’t be people practicing Judaism, whether or not they self-identify as Jewish. They wouldn’t be considered such by the Jewish people at large or by Israelis, and would therefore have no authority, so Muslims in power would not give it or them any credence. Therefore, the conversation would probably not occur. Your plan would, therefore, have no effect on the on the war in Syria. Fatal flaw.

        The world is doused in gasoline and you want to light a match for your own personal agenda with your Pie-in-the-Sky Kill Religion plan.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Patrick Gannon

          You’ve missed the point. Any Jews willing to deny their religion are already agnostics or atheists. They may practice as cultural Jews, but the idea is to get a large collection of intelligent, educated, notable and influential Jews who acknowledge that their religion is based on myths and to share that understanding with the rest of the world.

          The whole idea is a big splash to start a conversation. Yes, the whole world is doused in gasoline, and I want to start a conversation. You want to sing Kumbaya.

          • Rainbow Shell

            hey 🙂 Kumbaya my lord is a grand song. but not for every angel eye. ..I like Pretty Little Angel Eyes with the Firebirds, another grand song 🙂 anyhoo, my point is to each his or her own :))))) We make a splash but not with gasoline. ..how about some motor oil to rev it up. . . . .I’m just kiddi n g and that spells oh so merrily marily :))))) I’m back to my not so facetious, and not so obsequies self, you see. ..alright, let’s make a grand point here. ….here it is, why bother about myth. …. I mean literature is to be consumed and there is always a bit of truth based upon myth. …..to be continued later 🙂 xx00

          • Spiritual_Annie

            No, I haven’t missed the point. If they’re willing to acknowledge that Judaism is based on myths, then it’s not “their religion.” They may be Jewish by ancestry, but aren’t practicing Judaism.

            Why would anyone who is practicing Judaism give these “intelligent, educated, notable and influential” Jewish people any credence over their Faith, knowing that they’ve already abandoned Judaism? Muslims, on the other hand, could latch onto it as another reason to kill Israelis. Christians may very well not want to risk even the slightest possibility that it might be used as an excuse for other nations in the middle east to overtake Israel, because that would ruin the chances of the temple being rebuilt and ushering in the “second coming.” Spiritual people have a tendency to allow others their own choices, unless those choices are being imposed upon them.

            That leaves you with other agnostics and atheists.

            And it’s not “Kumbaya,” it’s a playlist of “Give Peace a Chance,” “All You Need is Love,” and “Imagine,” among others. Actually, a pretty long playlist.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

  • Rainbow Shell

    The US has dropped a bomb on Afghanistan today targeting caves where there is claim that Isis dwells. I am saddened and shocked that we have decided to act so rapidly without a backup plan of action to try first, in order to foster good will toward mankind. What the hell are we going to do after the life force of this action if Isis really decides to retaliate but not in a remote landscape but in a crow’s nest of a backyard. I think there has to be a better way than to press the button. I had a dream sort of last night. I dreamed of a moon, so beautiful, so golden and pink, and I created it with my mind, and then I put a sun there and then a second sun rotating about the moon. It was love and so real I could touch it, but then I found out it had to be detonated…too much, too soon, too fast for love. Is that what we’ve come to? We can’t envision peace and love for all without throwing bomb of fear?

    • Victor Lopez Rossi

      This is the real drama, Rainbow:

      Poll: Voters back Syria airstrikes

      Nearly two-thirds of voters, 66 percent, support last week’s airstrikes
      on a Syrian air field, the poll shows. That includes 35 percent who
      strongly support the strikes, and 31 percent who somewhat support them.
      Only 24 percent oppose the strikes, and 10 percent don’t have an
      opinion.

      I guess that very similar numbers will be around this “super bomb”…

      • mewabe

        The mainstream media manufactures consent. All we need is a few horrible pictures to stir public emotions, a few groundless accusations, stenographer-journalists who do not investigate anything but repeat what the government and Pentagon tells them, and of course in the case of Afghanistan a brand new toy-weapon that the military boys-men are chomping at the bit to use and test on a real life battlefield.

        • Rainbow Shell

          The media definitely sways public, sometimes for the worse. We have to be on our toes, so to speak, in order to sift what is true forlove. I think that bomb had been around for awhile, so why do we even desire to collelct and manufacture things that kill human. Isn’t this a barbaric way to perpetuate our species? I don’t know man but earth is not just redoable forever, or we are silly to imagine it so.

          • Kirsten

            Hi ya,
            This is a tricky one for me, and where Neales books and views are incredibly contradictory. I stay out of all worldly affairs, and discussions for one reason…reincarnation. I am a first lifer, a new soul, never reincarnated, just a baby. Israelites are not reincarnated in general, so we have no pre determined paths, and just have to wing it, knowing everyone else does. And hope like hell that the peopke we chose to befriend didnt choose a reincarnation path to be an addict, get terminal cancer, marry a peodophile etc. Its actually quite scary 24/7 as we dont have guides from the afterlife like others do, so have to stay in a ‘small’ life, and ‘listen’ instinctively very carefully to avoid getting caught up in the paths of others…that driver in front of me could have arranged a heart attack at the wheel, and the one behind me arranged an insurance scam to write off car and get a new one, or time off work while guides arrange a new job. With me, the innocent bystander in the middle of them. Or even worse, my kids. Im incredibly over protective, all are still at home full or part time although between 24 and 19 and all paid well and working (2 builders and a nurse). A huge eye opener was when my daughter was at school, and 7 people drowned at school camp (google Elim Christian College drown). Thankfully she was a year below them, but what if she was there and caught in it it as well? Her good friends brother was the pe teacher that drowned, so its likely that would be her group. Seven funerals in a week is an experience no one should have to go through. Needless to say she didnt go on her senior camp, Divine Intervention that her BMI was too low, so wasnt allowed, after I ‘ordered God’ to ensure she didnt go.
            BUT the point is, with everything I could read about reincarnation, including early CWG books, they all state that nothing can happen that people havnt prearranged, and have given consent for everything, even choosing their own time, place and means of death. Everything is basically carved in stone, and the follow on of changes would have a huge ripple effect, and are near impossible. Every job, home, relationship, bundle of cash, vacation and act, including prize and lottery wins, are all pre arranged, and rigged.
            Therefore Neale, and anyone, will only be able to change what they were going to change anyway. Who am I, or we, to question what paths individuals chose, especially death based ones? Or to attempt to override their own choices and what they truly wanted before reincarnating here? Not to mention it being a waste of time. Even votes are pointless.
            If someone has arranged to press a button and wipe out this planet, then everyone involved has already pledged their support via reincarnation. Except me and the animals.
            Yes, most paths are sick in the head, choosing to suffer is unnecessary and plain stupid, but we cant change it. Its already underway.
            Take care,
            K

          • Rainbow Shell

            Well, I’m not much into reincarnation myself. I believe it exists, but I don’t believe I have that deal. I am aware that my twin has had many pastlives but not me. I’m a baby, too. He has to contend with a lot because of that fact. I have been in a few car accidents that were prearranged, so to speak. One was thankfullly a blessing because my twin showed up with a sparrow on his shoulder, literally at the scene. He actually set the wreck up so Iwould not have a wreck down the road. He said it was difficult to not leave me because he went to a new awareness where he had to exist in order to deplete fields that don’t play nicely near me. I don’t get it all but there it is. Anyway,, I’m glad to hear you’re kids are okay. I ordered a laptop and it just came in with brand new headphones, so I am getting ready to zone out there with meteors and stars so to speak with some yeha noha music, my favorite thing in the world.

            goodnight,
            M

          • Kirsten

            Hi,
            I like your honesty. We can only gauge truth, depth and honesty in others when they include themselves in the picture.
            Yes, with twins often one is a new soul, formed from the twin one, the story of Adam and Eve. Sparrows are the sign for a new soul, basic, simple and ‘just there’. A blank canvas. I completely understand what he is talking about, Ive had to have an Angel guard at many times, everytime Ive left the house because of those fields. They cannot withstand innocence or first lifers, and decicate their lives to hunting us down to attack. You name it, Ive had it, and won everytime. New souls have a different aura, we are easily spotted, you are lucky to have him, but he also would have chosen to ‘make’ you, so will have protection obligations. Dont look in to it, stay innocent. This site is watched by those your twin protects you from, dont use terms like yeha noha, or be too cute, they know the traits of those who can attain the goal of the perfect soul (a rainbow), therefore immortality.
            Tell him from me, a huge thank you for committing to you….from an Ariel, he will understand, and tell him that pyramids work well as does you wearing white knitted, crochet etc clothing, the ‘fields’ cant withstand that either.
            Glad your laptop arrived, enjoy it.
            Enjoy the music….Ill pass on that, Im a 70s freak myself with music.
            K

          • Rainbow Shell

            crochet is my favorite. Blue fuzzies and white always my favorite. At any rate, he tells me about those who are watching and otherwise. No worries there. I am fairly aware I am aware of who is who. Thanks for the guidance. I’ll keep that in mind but he takes care of me. We do communicate quite a bit through dreamtime and through written word and in many ways, so I’m aware of how it’s been. His lives are many, and he is very protective, almost too protective for my tastes sometimes,which was why I sped off in a spaceship that he said okay go, so I went and then he came running back and quite frankly said what in the hell have you done. I said I’m creating something without your awareness and he said nothing. He watched and I told him to get out. I know that’s unusual but I’m sick of him sometimes because he gets so anxious if I decide to get too creative and I’m sick of it.. His protection is very valued but I’m tired of all of his ways At any rate, I likely will deplelte these personal posts soon, so don’t be offended, okay? 🙂

          • Kirsten

            Michelle?????? That had Giaon harassing her????
            I wear crochet clothes a lot, the symbology is a repellent.
            If you are that Michelle, take care and stay well. Brother knows best.
            Xx

          • Rainbow Shell

            Thanks for the advice. I know best for me, too :)) He’s not my brother. He’s my twin :)) There is no depleting him. We are the same heart. It speaks in the soul song like a sparrow.

            Take care,
            M

          • Kirsten

            Hi,
            Your other post seems to have fallen off….not a physical twin as well? Sorry, I missed that.
            Ive chosen to remain a mirror twin, an Eve, because its who I am, and my life alone, although Im clearly on a path as a helper to them. I have no idea at all who it is, all I know is its in my ‘knowing’. I only acknowledge God, no one else, and have never asked whom it is. I could guess a Daniel, Michael, Joshua, Gabriel, Adam, Jericho or James, but they are all common old Hebrew/Israelite names so there could be thousands, or it could also subconcsiously be a list of my favourite guys names as well.
            Take care,
            K

          • Rainbow Shell

            ha been physical but has to deplete too many to stay physical in one lane…not time yet, he says. He gets mad and extremely double standard like when I play eve, not his thing he says, so I put on my war paint astral of course kinda like marilyn but not prettier if you can imagine that blue eyed and war paint all over me and he closes down all rooms when I put that suit on lol He is my brother, sister, mother, father, twin and every every. we are the same heart. I created him. He created me. We are creator and created simultaneously so can’t stick a label on it. He prefers to call me “All of Me” now. not even a true twin. .been overdone so damn many times. He is just calling me him and that’s good enough. gotta run. didn’t mean for this link to run into a link on remote view and all that good stuff. It’s time to get back to Neale’s topic 🙂

          • mewabe

            I am already on to that…Wuauquikuna is one of my favorite! Thanks for the tip!
            Have you heard Ananau? Give it a try! Youtube…
            Also, enter this-“Mongolian Music Healing Soul Spirit Song”-on youtube and enjoy!!!! Very very beautiful!!
            Have you ever heard Kitaro? You might like…not Indian, Japanese (new age).

            And from another place…(I like to travel in sounds): Stellamara – Nida (Sephardic Jew, in Portuguese…I love it)

            Ecuador is a place where I might move…or else go back to Canada, but it’s cold.

          • Rainbow Shell

            oh my god. I’m listening to Ananau this very second :)) that’s so weird. I read your post and am now listening to another and another indian song, but damn I’m moving to Equador after hearing and watching Wuauquikuna dance. Wow Wee thanks for the tips :))

          • mewabe

            Let me know what you think of the Mongolian Music Healing Soul Spirit Song on Youtube…I find if incredibly beautiful and moving…music could truly heal the world and bring all of the people together at the heart/soul level…regardless of beliefs, color, etc…

          • Rainbow Shell

            I can’t stop my dancing music :)) Indio Irlandes Wuauquikuna hahahahaha wow it’s my song for life :)))) i’ll check it out soon. i’m sure it’s myne, too :)))

          • mewabe

            I started my day with the Mongolian song, and then went on to Ananua…Indio Irlandes Wuauquikuna is great too 🙂

          • Rainbow Shell

            I heard Ananua and they’re all grand. I am still on the Wuauquikuna though can’t stop that one 🙂 woooooooooooooooooooo ok we need to begin a real live peace prayer for tthe world adn that’s myne. join and anyone reading can join in just listen at your leidsure 🙂

          • Rainbow Shell

            Thank you, Mewabe. I will, but the Indio Irlandes by Wuauquikuna is my song of the day and I don’t know when I’ll have time to check out Mongolian Music, but I will. .it’s just wow if ever there was a god look it is Wuauquikuna, the flute player, except there is two in the band at least and I prefer well just look at him and you’ll know the one I look for as a dream god. anyoho, I’ve been dreamin too much lately. I’ve got to get back to more important stuff. Looks like we are in for a wild ride with North Korea and that is now needing my twin and myself off blogging for a bit. Wow Wow Wow I’m loving the Mongolian Music Healing Sou Spirit Song oooooh it’s reminding me of my all time favorite Tom Kenyon whew and I’m off Thank you :)))

          • mewabe

            Yes Tom Kenyon is great! I am glad you like the Mongolian song….:)

          • Rainbow Shell

            yes, I love the music. What in the world are we doing about North Korea and US? it’s getting tense. ..I don’t know but it’s called nuclear here on the news and isn’t that just an end to something. ..I just don’t like how the world is spinning. time for a prayer session, I think. wtf Neale? It’s Easter man. .perfect timing dear Neale. .we should gather here like 2013. time for a post for all out prayer here if ever we needed it we need it now, okay?

          • Mysie (Watson) McJannet

            I’m hearing you,,,,just thought I’d ‘Show Up’ here to let you know that

          • Rainbow Shell

            We are loud on Wuauquikuna Indio Irlandes :))) sending LOTS OF GOLD TO ya :)))) I’m on it all day and night. .starting my own prayer for peace everywhere woooooooooooooooooooooooooo

      • Rainbow Shell

        I know I oppose them. Who did that poll, Victor? I am surprised if so many desire such a strong force without something tried first. I don’t know but there has to be a better solution, and I don’t know what it is really, other than let more women in on this decision.

        • Victor Lopez Rossi

          I’d give you the link, Rainbow, but it would be censored by this site.

          But you can make a search with the title.

          • Rainbow Shell

            Thanks, Victor. Whew what a scary world we’ve created. Just looking at pictures of the MOAB whew wow that was in my dream. I hate to have nightmare dreams. Thanks for the statistic.

      • Kirsten

        I read somewhere that there are only three years in history where America are not engaged in some form of war. You are a war country, its your ‘thing’.
        K

        • mewabe

          The only thing not “made in China” in America are our weapons…that;s about the only industry we have left. America and war are synonymous, this is an aggressive empire, that is crumbling from within as all empires are destined to do (you should see the giant potholes on the roads in my neighborhood!…You have to negotiate your way around them…but then America seems to love potholes…especially those created by missiles in other nations!)

          • Kirsten

            Yeah I know…I hear the Bush and Hussein families are the main shareholders in the missile factory.
            Could be wrong, one of those random things you read over the years.

          • mewabe

            The war industry stocks go through the roof after each missile strike…it expands the meaning of “making a killing”!

          • Stephen mills

            The cost of developing one intercontinental ballistic missile could feed 50 million children ,build 160,000 schools ,and open 340,00 health centres .Even the cost of a single new nuclear submarine is equal to the annual education budget of twenty-three developing countries in a world where 120 million children have no school they can go to and 11 million babies die before their first birthday .

            A passage from Riane Eisler’s book The Chalice and The Blade.

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            A magnificent book.

            A must-read for everybody, everywhere, I think…

            Greetings!

          • mewabe

            A great book! I am glad you are mentioning it here!

    • Kirsten

      Hi.
      I assume you know this, but the moon represents female principles, feminine traits, understanding, justice, and patience balanced with productive emotions. Pink is love (there was a real rare pink moon last week) and golden is calmed happiness. Suns represent light, comfort, warmth, love, balance, The Source of all souls, beauty, perfection and banishment of ghings that do not meet these traits. Unfortunately it was telling you the principles of the sun….destruction and ‘non peace’ are required to banish everything negative, then the sun and moon can work in harmony and unison again.
      Our world is completely lost as a whole. All the little things we hardly notice have unbalanced us, we need a reset. The little things like females dressing masculine and butch, guys losing their masculine side, loss of manners, dignity, pride, respect, beauty, fun non crass humour, gentleness in females, gentle parenting skills, enjoyment in the sun rather than hiding from it as negative people always do, marriages being about things other than love etc. Wars etc are the result of this, we are on a crooked tilt and what must happen will happen.
      K

      • Rainbow Shell

        Hi
        Feminine and masculine traits are debatable, so to speak. I am very feminine, lace, pink, and blue, baby blue, are my favorite, but then there is green emerald and I don’t want to stereotype but I certainly appreciate your interpretation. My so called dream was actually a remote view that got a little heated between myself and my twin. We sort of split and he got madder than heck. I began imagining a creation in the galaxy where I was travelling and he came back and wow was he mad, had to detonate it completely he said and that’s all I know. He wasn’t actually gone but we pretended to be separated. It’s been a wild ride being his twin. He said I am the only heart like me/him and it’s been more challenging being him. Sometimes I want to split but that’s not possible. It is strange how I spontaneously began remote viewing. I mean I have had a few. Once, I saw one of Neale’s good freinds at Neale’s desk and I wasn’t trying to remote view ..it just happened and Neale was at his desk..anyway, I left. .it kind of scared me, but remote view seems to be something I can do now. That was at least 2009 or so. At any rate, the dream part is really a remote view sort of because it became a creation, too, and that is why my twin was mad. He said it’s not time and he said that this is my personal space. But, the area is still alive. It’s just being cleared of debris and such. Anyway, this is a gift and I like viewing other countries. It’s fascinating where one travels. Wow wee I’ve seen a lot in several weeks. I’ve seen war zones even, nuclear power plants, spaceships galore. personally I like flying lol

        take care,
        M

        • Kirsten

          Im sure you would mean indigo, or cornflower blue, not baby blue!!
          Same traits, but love leather and lace together, and Im in an avocado green phase. Always sorbet tones.
          Ive remote viewed once, freaked me out! Is you brother living or passed?
          K

          • Rainbow Shell

            don’t be reading me man. Not cool 🙂 he’s alive as far as I know. why?

          • Kirsten

            Im not reading you…definately not cool, I can only scan names and may see a picture. Nothing with you at all. Charles is good at reading people though. Its just that people who like pink with lace would steer toward cornflower blue, it has a touch of pink. Im a cake decorator, I work with colour. And I traded information, as I always do when people disclose something personal, to be fair!
            I wondered about your brother because your wording perhaps indicated he could have passed, I couldnt quite tell.
            Yip, twins are different when soul twins. I have a soul twin somewhere, I can feel it, most new souls are formed from someone now.
            The twin ‘making’ the new soul, generally a male making a female, often struggles. There is generally always a link you cant break, but you become a mirror to them. In you he will see how he would have been as a female, born in modern times and without past life baggage. You are the mirror to his soul. Not many are allowed to do it, they have to be deemed good breeding stock.
            Its done now as the stocks of new souls are very low, called sparrows, The Source no longer makes them, its the only way for the human race to continue other tjan reincarnation. In the Dead Sea Scrolls Jesus/Yshua carved sparrows that came to life. Obviously the story about this, which makes me assume he ‘bred’ on Earth either physically or as a soul maker.
            Take care,
            K

          • Rainbow Shell

            `I know about mirrors. He toldme I came agreeing to be a mirror and that I was not supposed to “wake” to who I am because it wasn’t time on earth. I did though which made him work very hard because of that fact. After I awoke to who I really am as his twin, he began to have to divide energy, depletle forced winds, conquer more dark energy that literally looks like tornado wind. I take pictures and it’s amazingly vivid to see the enrgy swirling after my car, for instance. Buildings, food, just every every has energy that he literally has to deplete because I am chased. woo woo woo not fun. At any rate, I am not a mirror. He wanted me to stay a mirror, but that did not happen. A mirror is a soul that agrees to be a witness only but he came to me and I knew and then we didn’t stop so we knew and knew we knew and on and on but I am not a mirror. I am him. He is me. The heart of us is one. It’s a divine True Twin, not a counterpart, which is literally a counterpart, as in the counter besdie me lol the enrgy there is oh so palpably yuk coming from y and sp and oooooh not good it’s just ok to be me. I am not going into detail because I am on a wild adventure and now know it. Thanks for the chat.

            Take care.

            M

          • Rainbow Shell

            yea that post disappeared. it’s just I’m not a mirror of his soul. I am his soul. We are the same soul, literally, so that’s all i had to say. I was supposed to act like a mirror and witness this life, my first one, but I woke up to all of me. It’s been more challenging for him because of that fact. Mirrors are old life that act but not the true mind in it. I am his mind body and soul over all of him/me and that’s all i know.

          • Rainbow Shell

            no I’m baby blue :)) but I’m all colors of the rainbow.

      • mewabe

        Great comment, I like and agree! I am especially struck by the general loss of human dignity being totally accepted by the masses, who are increasingly treated like cattle and find it normal.
        This to me represents a huge sign of a complete loss of spiritual values.

        • Kirsten

          Thank you kind Sir.
          I’ll frame it.
          PS…are brackets like a whisper??
          Xx

          • mewabe

            Yes that was a whisper…we are in church, behave yourself now!
            Hey I posted a music recommendation for Rainbow…a Sephardic (I think) tune in Portuguese, I love it: Stellamara – Nida (Youtube, a group from San Francisco)) Might not be your kind of music…I have eclectic taste!

          • Kirsten

            I’ll give it a listen. My taste is odd, anything that meets the highest standards for what it is…with good drums essential, and sheer talent.

          • mewabe

            Same here…and this is a high standard group!

          • Kirsten

            Hey, I just realised something , and this is really mean.
            Patrick has headed off to his fathers funeral. His father is catholic. Thats a 2 hour boring requim mass…Church Easter Weekend too.
            Poor guy…it must be torture.
            I wont laugh at the irony.

          • mewabe

            No wonder he is cranky.
            Did you follow our exchange? I got sucked into it…usually I avoid that but I was sleep deprived and tired. Patrick is truly relentless, and a wall.

          • Kirsten

            It was needed. What you said was true…fanatics are exhausting, no matter the beliefs. I read it after he said he was running away, to see if someone other than me was pushing his limits.
            I was mean too…he wanted a food fight, I played.

          • mewabe

            Fanatics are exhausting…so true! I would rather deal with a mother bear.

          • Kirsten

            Id rather deal with you, and thats tragic.
            Hahaha.
            We have been too nice lately, standards are slipping!!!

          • mewabe

            Yeah I noticed…all this sugar is making my teeth ache 🙂
            (oh no…a smile…horror).

          • Kirsten

            Youll have to be Mewannabeabutterfly…not cool!!!

          • mewabe

            I guess after my battle scars with Patrick I needed some TLC…thank you…tomorrow I’ll be wearing war paint again. Actually I just posted a new comment on top of the blog about men and war…sure to be controversial.

          • Kirsten

            Hi,
            I thought that was a post about Freud and his penis obsession. Damn, I read it all wrong!!!!
            Hey, I have a book that I was ‘led’ to get a couple of years ago but Ive never read it, Im all studied out, brain is full.
            But I will pass the same message I ‘felt’ on to you. Read it with an intuitive mind and something, a name, will jump out at you and be a puzzle piece. Patrick, If you’re reading this I think you should read it too.
            Anglia Judaica, A History of the Jews in England by D’Blossiers Tovey LL.D. Its a modern reprint of a 1738 book by Elizabeth Pearl, history from Jewish records from 1066 to 1738, which would cover the war between England and Spain.
            I bought it 2nd hand, jumped out at me. There is a bookmark, card of a Revd Canon in Coventry, England on p80, with a pic of a tomb. Ive just had a quick look and the author is quite funny, you’ll like him, seems very sarcastic.
            “I think the least I can do in return is to let him know my own theory-even though I know it is incorrect since it differs from his. Not only that, my objections are so obvious that if they really were objections, I’m sure he would have noticed them himself”. Global Conversation hundreds of years ago!!!
            Take care,
            K

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’m not running away from anything. I wanted a break from this discussion to address personal matters, but I’m still here. I don’t run. (Well actually I do, about 3 times a week).

          • Kirsten

            Patrick, Ive put a book recommendation to Mewabe a few comments down, I think you’ll like it as well. The facts but also the author..written in 1738.
            Take care,
            K

          • Patrick Gannon

            ” Patrick is truly relentless,”

            Why thank you! More success is attributable to perseverance than inspiration. If that’s meant as an insult, it’s not one to me!

            Disagree that I am a wall. If that was true, I never would have left my first belief system.

            Is it spiritual to talk about people in this way?

            Do you believe that Yahweh visited Abraham and told him he and his offspring were the “chosen people” and that we would give them a “promised land”? You have vehemently defended the Jews and this myth – so apparently it’s not a myth to you. You actually believe in the Abrahamic god – or one of them – despite all your protestations otherwise. I knew there was a good chance Kirsten would believe this myth, but I did not expect it from you.

            If you do not take this myth literally, then what in the world is wrong with admitting that it’s a myth, by people who might be in a position to spark a meaningful discussion about religion and the harm it does to the middle east in particular?

          • mewabe

            I am defending the Jewish people…not the myth. I have however no problem with religions or any belief unless the people who hold them try to impose them on others. And of the 3 Abrahamic religions, Judaism is the only one that believers do not attempt to impose on the world. On the other hand, Islam is “meant to rule the world” according to the majority of Muslim believers….and with an iron fist, apparently, according to some. A lot more dangerous in my opinion.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Can’t you see that in debunking the “chosen people/promised land” myth, one is also debunking the foundation for ALL the Abrahamic religions? I completely agree with you regarding Islam. It is the only religion that approaches the evil of fundamental Christianity, and surpasses it in several respects including what you have mentioned.

            By acknowledging that there was no divine intervention, the blanket is pulled out from underneath Islam and Christianity as well – and that’s the ultimate goal. Get past the mythology, and there’s a lot I like about Judaism. They developed a concept of Law, that we use to this day. The book of Genesis is much more about the development of laws for civilized living than anything else. In a treatise, as I’ve suggested, things like this could be pointed out.

            Since the Jews started the religions that became a handful of Islamic sects, and thousands of Christian sects, why shouldn’t they pull the rug out from underneath those religions which essentially bastardized their own? This could well be construed as the proportionate justice that Kirsten approves of: “an eye for an eye.” Why not let the Jews get even? Sure it means they have to acknowledge that their own religion is based on myth, but their religion is more cultural than dogmatic anyway. That declaration doesn’t do as much to undermine their religion as it does to undermine Christianity and Islam.

          • Victor Lopez Rossi

            I think there is a real trouble with some beliefs around jews.

            A very BIG issue here: ZIONISM.

            ZIonism is the core reason for middle east troubles.

            UN created Israel nation due to the efforts of zionism to come back to their ‘promised land’. So, they stole palestinian territories for doing that, and ok, that started real conflict. Bloody conflict. Of course, Israel was surrounded by ‘enemies’. Of course, the ‘enemies’ created for whom their land was stolen in the first place. And after that, the borders fixed by UN have been violated again and again leaving almost no land at all for palestinians.

            Zionism is an authoritarian, racist, supremacist, and violent faction of judaism. Not all judaism is zionist. The trouble is that it RULES in Israel.

            Zionism of course arised from religion. From abrahamic religion. From biblical myths.

            Though zionism is not ONLY about religion. It has wide consequences in geopolitical issues. And it is the cause of part of the bloodshed in middle east.

            By the other hand, we have the israeli lobbie in USA.
            A lobbie for economics, policies and war, very, very influential in
            politics. It is not about religion but their conceptions arised from
            abrahamic religion: the chosen people, the promised land, the god’s people, ‘ethics’ of dominion, etc.

            A very important point to be noticed: not all jews
            are zionist. Nor all jews share the vision of israeli lobbies. For
            example, Noam Chomsky, etc.

            There are the anti-zionist jews for example, that claim for palestinian rights.

          • Rainbow Shell

            hey Victor 🙂

            I don’t know much about Zionism. You said “Though zionism is not ONLY about religion. It has wide consequences in geopolitical issues. And it is the cause of part of the bloodshed in middle east.” What is it exactly, and how has the geopolitical issues impacted the middle east? I am just curious.

            thanks 🙂

          • Patrick Gannon

            Not going to Easter mass. Funeral mass will be short and on a weekday.

            Nice of you to talk about someone as though they aren’t there.

          • Kirsten

            Oh good, anyone going to a Catholic funeral has my sympathies, remember to send a memo saying it needs to be short!
            I am well aware you may read anything I put up, food fight remember! If I was a backstabber I would have edited my posts to remove stuff, basic logic there!
            Take care,
            K

          • Rainbow Shell

            no backstabbing just because people choose to edit or delete. Heck we’re writers. no basic logic needed, just common sense.:)

          • Kirsten

            Im in an odd phase…I Write Sins Not Tragedies has to be the current favourite, plus Tiny Dancer and Bright Eyes song off all things. Plus Black Dog. Love the riff and drums in Black Betty and I need a version of Whiter Shade of Pale with someone playing the intro on water glasses then the original put on youtube for me. And Stairway to Heaven with a pan flute, then acoustic.
            Must be having a breakdown!

          • mewabe

            Hey black Dog and Black Betty are great!…classics. As well as Stairway to Heaven…etc
            One of my favorite, partly for the lyrics, is Another Brick In The Wall (Pink Floyd). It makes me want to break things (just kidding).

          • Kirsten

            Yip Another Brick In The Wall is great…Ill watch it now, a good lullaby. Movie was very odd though…or maybe at 16 and not stoned, I just didnt get it!!

          • mewabe

            I saw it too but don’t even remember…I don’t think I got it either.

          • Rainbow Shell

            love all of those. I saw Pink Floyd twice. What a lazer show wow comfortably numb and my favorite, if I can pick one, is “Mother”. ..Mother, do you think they’ll drop the bomb has to be the line that makes me cry to hear it, especially now in this war zone climate.

  • mewabe

    Dr Sigmund Freud:
    The US military just dropped the largest phallic symbol in their possession on Afghanistan. And the mainstream media seems to get a hard on, as do many Americans, when really big missiles shoot into the sky and land on other people lands. Any comments? Could the medium be the message?

  • Patrick Gannon

    Charles, I received an email post of yours that discussed how the Syrian war started and who the religious players were. I can’t find it here, so I don’t know if it was posted. You asked a question I have answered repeatedly: “and I’m still wondering how its going to stop if Judaism and/or Abrahamic religions step up to deny themselves.” My answer is, once again, to create an event, such as I’ve described in which the world is more or less forced to respond to in a global conversation.

    That’s it. Just start a conversation. Others have recommended the same thing, but have failed to present a means that is more likely to gain global attention and do any real good, than the method I propose. Sitting in cities in countries that are not directly affected, having Kumbaya interreligious sessions has never produced any significant long term results that I am aware of. If we’re going to have a conversation, I think we need to do it with a splash, and get everyone involved. The level of discussion that this idea of mine created here, seems to indicate that this technique is workable. Victor provided a publication that I need to review a little more carefully, and I may well contact them, if they look like a candidate to run with such a project. I am greatly encouraged by the level of discussion this idea sparked, even if it was all hostile. Words are better than nukes, in my view.

    Now on a different subject, and I really don’t have time for all this right now, but who the heck are you Charles/Jethro/Neale/Sam/TomDick&Harry? I have been criticized for conducting my own little experiments here, but what experiment are you conducting, and who are you? Sometimes you sound a lot like Neale. Sometimes you sound like Sam and it’s as if you’re talking to yourself in order to generate a discussion, then you ease out, seemingly turning yourself(?) in the persona of Sam, over to Mewabe or Marko for example. The Sam persona is a bit different, but it’s interesting that Sam came on the picture at about the same time as Jethro and Charles. Sometimes you sound like a plumber, and sometimes you sound like a well educated man who knows a lot more than he pretends to know. Who are you, and why should you have any credibility given that you have intentionally deceived people here? I have deceived no one. Who I am and where I stand on certain issues is pretty clear. Who you are is a complete mystery. You are playing some role here for Neale, or you are a Neale persona, aren’t you? You flirt with all the girls, you kiss up to the regulars, you try to avoid taking positions, but you’ll agree with me in one post, and disagree in another. Sometimes your questions are good, like you’re trying to draw out ideas, other times, you’re standing in line with those opposed. Who are you? What is your game? What are you up to? What do you hope to accomplish? Like Neale’s sad story, how much of your sad story should we buy into? Right now, I don’t buy any of it. I don’t think you’ve been a drunk or been to jail. I think that’s just one of your persona’s. Given your admitted deception, why should any of us believe a word you say?

    Come out, come out, whoever you are…

    • Sam

      “The Sam persona is a bit different”

      Quite a bit, actually — like a person entirely on my own 🙂 It’s a full time job 🙂

      • mewabe

        I can relate. I am that I am. Now let’s add some more fuel to the paranoid fire: where is my time machine? I am still waiting.

        • Sam

          Yep, most people can, being themselves is quite enough.

        • Kirsten

          Wtf is going on in here???? Im missing something completely. If you read below, apologies about your name although Ive never said it. I had no idea anyone would be interested in peoples names. I forgot to say you are actually a Bob, see if anyone can work that one out!!!!!
          I had no idea we were a part of a conspiracy or underground wierd thing?!
          Lol.

          • Rainbow Shell

            who is bob? is mewabe bob? now, he is incognito so not cool if you are telling on him okay? lol

          • Kirsten

            Who is Bob…haha, thats the ultimate mystery of life?
            The name means boy of Robert or something. A true incognito name with zero meaning.

          • Rainbow Shell

            lol

          • mewabe

            No worries, there is no conspiracy in my mind…no need for apologies whatsoever, you never brought up anything that would require apologies of any kind about my name, or about me. You already know my name…Mewablobinovitchyimustscratch

            I missed all the fun about Charles, the comments are all deleted. What happened? This is truly turning into a sitcom…thank God!

          • Rainbow Shell

            I don’t know what happened to Charlie baby. .I asked about teflon. ..I hope I didn’t irritate him. maybe he’ll be back. People come and go. .all waiting on snow..ya know. .santa to come in with his post..It’s almost easter, neale .time to bring your shining wisdom ;).

          • mewabe

            I think we might have scared Neale from his own site…you know, like a doctor is afraid of stepping into the psyc ward!

          • Rainbow Shell

            I hope not 🙂 this old world need s him :)))

          • Kirsten

            Victory….does that make us Trolls? Ive personally been being silly because Neale said he would ‘read it with interest’.
            Haha, Id love to see his face.

          • Rainbow Shell

            :O)

          • Kirsten

            Hahaha. I wont quote the boring you, head up your own bum about 5 years ago who said that people should keep a distance on the internet, and never be friendly, and only spouted boring facts. Boring Professor Mewbob!
            Now you want the goss! Ive put something to Shell up the top. Both lost the plot, and bought others in to it, someone somehow thinking that you actually have a different name to above, and I think actually believe people here are some afterworld hierachy or something. No idea really. Im just a troll. I think.
            Yip, I do hope the characters to continue with the sit com site. Im sure Neale loves it, about as much as Marko would. (If Neale hasnt died of course).
            Whats the next episode….set in North Korea or my concert in Syria? U can direct, you like deadlines, but there is a lot from this episode to work with.
            Xx

          • Rainbow Shell

            no sitcom to me here. I am off the sitcom site. no professor to me either lol I divorced that one. No ginger to me, and I’m tired of being a nerd, so I am just me and that’s good enough for God and me. This world of meaningless is done, and for Neale’s sake, I am not participating 🙂

        • Rainbow Shell

          I am that I am, mewabe I am just me what the heck. It’s good enough. I’m still singing to indian music ;))

          • mewabe

            I am just what the heck…
            Mewabewhatheheck

          • Rainbow Shell

            this is code word of the day 😉 I say it so much people are saying back at me :0) I have heard it three times already today 🙂

    • Charles

      I am who I am Patrick, at this time I am no more than a space in this forum with a name like everyone else. Everything I have said I am, I am.

      I have wondered on occasion if you were Neale being anti Neale, So I understand your doubt.

      You are baffled by my ability to accept either side of the coin. I would not call my myself very educated but I have thoughts and I share them.

      People are not wrong, people have beliefs, Beliefs are true to the believer. I have no reason to attack for those beliefs. I am willing in most cases to give everyone there beliefs because those beliefs are as fluid as water, they will change. I am forgiving and accepting of people. This doesn’t mean I don’t have negative thoughts about some ideas being presented. I believe if we wish to make a change we should be the change we wish to see. I am being that without perfection. Everyone who shows up here is wonderful for each other, You yourself create a bit of thought, A way of thinking is what it’s all about isn’t it?

      What change would you like to see in the world?

    • Charles

      “and I’m still wondering how its going to stop if Judaism and/or Abrahamic religions step up to deny themselves.”
      My answer is, once again, to create an event, such as I’ve described in which the world is more or less forced to respond to in a global conversation.”

      Everyone here has responded, You will get the same response on a global scale.

      • Patrick Gannon

        “You will get the same response on a global scale.”

        YES, YES, YES!!! And that’s exactly what we need. I’ve said repeatedly that it will be a difficult, brutal, long term conversation, but so was turning away from “don’t ask, don’t tell,” and that’s the situation we have now.

        If you really think that such a declaration or treatise, as I’ve suggested here, would engage the globe in the kind of conversation we’re having right here, then you are on my side. You are confirming the viability of my idea. You are telling me exactly what I want to hear.

        Thank you, whoever you are….

        • Charles

          Why say, YES, YES, YES!!! about that and tell everyone who joined in NO NO NO!!!? It would create the same conversation as the one you have experienced and you sound as thou your not pleased with the outcome. Theoretically you would just be insulted on a global scale.

          Patrick I’m sure this is easily cleared up but I’m a little confused.

          It doesn’t matter who I am, the conversation will be the same. I don’t understand why it would be important to anyone but myself… The keeper of the name.

          • Kirsten

            Dont play games, Patrick is fair in asking whom he is talking to. Some dont care, other feel it is deception and makes people untrustworthy.
            Just tell him who you are, really.
            K

          • Patrick Gannon

            If a large committee or group of influential people, as I’ve suggested, were to make a detailed statement acknowledging the lack of divine intervention or any status as “chosen people” granted a “promised land,” one of two things could happen.

            The most likely, is what usually happens – a Kumbaya response, or no response at all, just mild interest or complete dismissal or something along those lines.

            The second thing that could happen is that all hades would break loose and the screaming would begin. Muslims would happily agree and acknowledge that indeed the Jews aren’t chosen people, but would protest at the idea the foundation for their god too had washed away. The same for Christian foundation washing away as well. But the discussion would be off and running, just like it was here. What more could one ask for than to gain the attention of many people on a global basis about one of the largest problems facing us. The best possible outcome would be a raucous, loud and spirited conversation blasting social media and the news.

            Nobody is going to insult me as a result of this. I’m not an influential Jew. My name isn’t going to be on that list, but if I was Jewish and was influential, indeed I would sign up.

            Hope that explains it. I’m going to have less and less time to respond. I didn’t expect to still be at it.

          • Rainbow Shell

            Hey I am part Jewish, actually mystic russian jew. Godbey. Ivan was his name and never would I sign that document that ssays we need to deplete belief in God. We do need to deplete fear and the mindset that says “my way is better,” or “there is only one way” to anything but as far as taking to task a whole religious sect and calling it the culprit, I think that is a gross overstatement and not going to do much as far as solve the world’s crisis.

          • Charles

            I don’t expect you to keep up with it all… take the time you need and I’m not effected.
            Now… ask any question you like as long as its not tooo personal, All i did was change my name… that’s it. I gave you, of all people, the biggest clue. I have no reason to hide, Jethro was my game name for Geocaching. I decided to be rid of it.

    • Kirsten

      Hey Patrick,
      I don’t think Sam is anything to do with Charles BUT….I’m a girl, there is no way he has flirted with me at all….your idea of flirting must be incredibly odd. If I’m defined as a regular, then I would not say he has ever kissed up to me either. I dont like IF you’ve put me in either of those catagories.
      All I would question is why anyone married is online so much especially in the evenings.
      Anything like this online is about encountering strangers…the stranger the better. Who cares what people say, if they have psychological isssues that means they choose different personas in different, or the same sites, or lead them to lie, then so be it, thats the internet for you. Each person online is well aware of that. Everyone has heard of the TV show Catfish, and is aware the person they speak to could be a crazy murderer in jail. Just ignore what you dont want to talk about. Ive never discussed alcoholism, jail or anything Charles/Jethro says. I understand that to you personally it may seem like someone is deceiving you though. As Jethro, when I discussed names, he did say his given name was Charles but people in real life call him something else I cant remember…a short name. Ie, it was in here a couple of weeks ago that Jethros name is Charles before he changed it. One thing I will tell you is that he is very psychic, or has a drone, and definately smarter in that aspect than he lets on. If you ‘feel’ not to trust him, that could be why. I challenged him to try to read psychically since I am completely blocked never for one second thinking he would, but he was able to be 100% accurate, and get through my protection barrier, even knowing it was one of love and joy (the strongest protection possible). People can fake being psychic, but they cannot fake knowing what peoples psychic protection is made from, most ‘plumbers’ would not even know that psychic protection is all different. Play detectives if you have the time…he uses the word slacks for trousers…who says that? People over 60. He has a 30 year son but is just 49 with no mention of teenage marriage etc. He drank too much at a bbq last week, and home brews, but is a former alcoholic? Works with wife Vickie…is she a plumber too?
      It doesnt matter though…no one is here trying to make friends or date!!!!!
      What I am aware of though, is that someone in here is working for Neale and its not Marko, you, me, Rainbow Shell or Mewabe. But in Jethos defense, when my posts have been censored he has reposted them up in his reply, especially anti CwG ones that Neale doesnt want up so that would be odd. But his comment asking how he gets his new book autographed was incredibly odd, and random.
      Sites like this do attract ‘different’ people, all forums do, as do religions and the new age mumbo jumbo…you know that.
      Take care,
      K

      PS… I have to ask…is your dads funeral a Requim Mass?? If so you have my sympathies!! Xx

      • Patrick Gannon

        Re Requiem Mass – not that I know of… I don’t want to go at all, but will do so out of respect for my dad.

      • Charles

        Where do I start? Short name that I’ve gone by since birth… Roy, it’s not on my birth certificate. I’m with my high school sweetheart Vickie and not looking for a date. We work together, she helps me because I needed a helper and her job in an office full of women sucked. I fell 12 to 15 ft from a dam onto a big rock under the water and hurt my heels and back and find it hard to bend over sometimes, or even walk some days. Because of the size of the towns around here I do more than plumbing, I also do bathroom remodels and home repairs. I have a 25 year old son and a 30 year old daughter who was born when I was 18.

        Kirsten, I’m not playing games, You called on me to describe you and I did based on what I knew about you in your writing, no psychic connection.

        Would anyone like to know anything else?

        • Rainbow Shell

          madame sistwah i don’t need you. I am a ouijii lol no I don’t need a ouijii. It’s a joke, okay? I’m not a devil. I am an angel with dusty wings 🙂

          • Charles

            I was an angel with one wing in the fire… I’m being accused of smoldering again.

          • Rainbow Shell

            a wing in a fire maybe you need to let go of a smoldering pan uh oh : what kind of pan are you using, surely not teflon it’s poison 🙂 i’m dancing again really wheelchair gone baby gone 🙂 and guess what my hands are fire dancing in yellow flame

          • Charles

            My non sticks are green pan ceramic, I have a couple multi ply stainless but the majority are cast iron. I love them all. Whoops, I have a couple vintage copper

          • Rainbow Shell

            non sticks never stick man. .real chef here only uses the best 🙂 all clad 🙂

          • Charles

            Non of my stuff sticks, it’s all about love for the food. I also love my pans… a lot!!

          • Rainbow Shell

            a lot 🙂 a lot 🙂 anyhoo, it’s not supposed to stick so keep on keeping on xxoo

        • Kirsten

          Haha,
          I was siding with you, and adding to Patricks confusion. Saying you didnt flirt or kiss up!!! Thats made up or paranoid crock! He started a food fight, Im more than happy to confuse him even more, its his game.
          So you did fake psychic though…thought so, other than the protection barrier.
          I know what you do for a job, and not accusing people of games. Im the one that really doesnt care who people are, and I knew names before this came up.
          Take care,
          K

          • Charles

            I didn’t fake anything, you called it psychic, If i was right it was by chance. No I’ve never intended to flirt or kiss up, he’s just pissed and calling me out. Not good with change maybe. If I said I was an alcoholic it was habit, I was a self medicating binge drinker. After addressing the anxiety/panic issue everything’s good. still anxious at times which is the difference he may notice. I go stupid some days, but I try. Everyone of us are who we are and that’s ok by me. Awesome group of people! Maybe Vickie is right, I’m on here too much…

          • Kirsten

            Internet is crazyville…..this is a normal cross section!!
            Im just glad for you that you havnt flirted or kissed up…if so, you would be really really crap at both!!
            Haha

          • Charles

            Kirsten or whatever your name is:). Your pretty awesome… not flirting or kissing up still. Thank you.

          • Kirsten

            Thank you.
            My given name is Kirsten, I go by Kirsty, and have been Kristen in here but was honest saying I changed my name.
            And I havnt told one lie in here…I don’t lie. I believe in Judgement Day, actually Ive had it. Liars can not get into a Heaven state, and I needed to conquer that stage (hence the song One Day…conquering last frontiers so cant know the future, so cant commit to anything), to get to an Eden state where people are free to be themselves, the tests are passed and life is just for living!!
            I have too much at stake to screw up now, but am under the Juristiction of Lord Almighty now, whom punishes those who deny justice to the innocent so will always side with the victim or underdog, a Piscies trait anyway, as you know!!
            Thats my honest journey, and why I am here. To screen Neales deception to ensure people are well aware his god, is not the God of scripture.
            Which Neale knows.
            But other peoples games are fun, especially kicking their butts in their own games.
            Take care,
            K
            Xx (I put that in for Patrick….in Kabbalah and Judaism its a double kiss on a forehead, the seal of God and a blessing, that closes the brow chakra of the Illuminati, the third eye and new age movements. Thats where xx started as a sign off…not flirting or kissing up at all….Hahaha).

          • Charles

            I know your name, michelle, and possibly the archangel mewabe’s real name per what all of you want us to know, and it doesn’t matter. Yes Neale knows, I think this all became bigger than originally thought. Some very interesting psychology which I’m sure you’ve caught onto by now…I can’t be the only one! Have a conversation with your voice of reason and call it God. Bang! Best seller. Makes some great points though, even with interdimentional beings it sends the same message. Reaches a new audience too. I’m not against it given the vibes I get at most everywhere I go. The world could use a different message with all the crap going on, and like you said, America… well it’s America. What do you do?

          • Rainbow Shell

            hey you wrote to kirsten or kristen or kerstin heck I can’t spell it. .you called her michelle. rainbow here. I am michelle not kirsten. you’ll need to repost if you want a better answer 🙂

          • Charles

            Misunderstanding, I know her name and yours and I think I know mewabes real name. It was poor wording.

          • Rainbow Shell

            so were you meaning to writ to her or to me because I am writing a book, but maybe she is writing her own book, too ) anyhoo, thanks for the feedback if that was meant for me. I don’t reveal too many personal things here today 😉 I took my posts down cuz it’s personal i’m a teacher by trade. too bad my ex wasn’t a plumber 🙂

          • Charles

            Yes my post was to Kirsten. Sorry if it misdirected. I posted about nonstick pans to you.

          • Rainbow Shell

            that’s alright. truthfully, i am just playing. I have got to get off this blog. wish we would get back to topic xxoo

          • Rainbow Shell

            lol thanks for the pertinent post on nonstick pans :)) who are you working for again? inofomercial? nevermind. I asked you about teflon 🙂 it is pertinent. It flakes and it’s poison to ya. I am a big environmental activist and have seen the woo woo consequences of teflon flakes. My mom is terrible with them. Oh my god. You should see her pans. she keeps ’em in the strangest places flaking and leaves oh heaven knows. I’m gone.whew

          • Kirsten

            Hahaha, now Im Michelle…thats Rainbow Shell. Now you must be Patrick thinking I have two disqus accounts and talk to myself. Can you even do that??
            Is this a bi polar group and I missed something?
            Re Mewabe..he has said he goes by Mewabe as doesnt want stuff on line against his real name for professional reasons. I felt a name, that I havnt mentioned at all other than a hint, to tell him I had seen a name, just to be honest as I would hate people snooping. He just confirmed the meaning of his name. Leave him out of this. All names have a meaning, half are associated with God. Mine means the same as Lisa, plus all derived from Christ. Michelle is from Michael…an archangel name!!
            So therefore I must be Jesus reincarnated, and Rainbow Shell and Mewabe must be archangels…I dont know. You can be Fred Flintstone, and Jed from the Beverly Hillbillies since plumbers may dig in the ground and its a redneck name like Jethro. And Rainbow Shell wants to be Pebbles remember, so Pebbles has to be an Archangel, or am I still Michelle?
            But the big question is…..who is Patrick? Spongebobs friend? Or is he you, and you/he made this conversation up because someone was on to you? Or are all the males actually Neale, and all the females actually Pebbles, travelling here in Matais time machine that he asked Neale to build. Then who is Bambam?
            But you and Rainbow Shell compared wings, so therefore you must be an Archangel as well….so are you Mewabe?
            Heck, we need an Alice just so we can all sing Who The Fork Is Alice? Vickie can be Alice. If she reads this crazy thread she will wonder if shes in Wonderland. But that goes back to Patrick, he wears a hat in his profile pic, so may be trying to confuse all like the Mad Hatter.
            Sams obviously out of a Dr Seuss book, he eats green eggs and ham. So cant be an archangel, because ham would be banned. But it does make perfect sense, green eggs and angels at Eastertime. Maybe Michelle the zarchangel, is pebbles because she has chocolate pebbles on her easter egg. Chocolate is a food of the Gods, afterall.
            Who’s Bruce?? Is he a chef bought in for the cooking pan info co mercial….do I get free steak knives? And will the green pan turn my eggs green like Sams?
            Im just glad Im at work and can see a business card…yip, Im boring old me, or so my cards tell me! Or did I steal them? Can’ t remember.
            K
            Xx

          • Charles

            I meant I know your name…. Michelle asked about it too. I don’t care one way or the other. But your on to something I think.

          • Charles

            oh

          • Kirsten

            I could never quite work out if I wanted to be Julie off The Love Boat, the bimbo from Gilligans Island or Daisy Duke when I grew up…you may be able to resolve that here. You and Patrick can rename everyone.
            But yes, I will acknowledge I speak Kabbalic, generally with songs. Just in case you want to develop a paranoia but I tested you, and you picked it up. There are 3 different languages being spoken in here!
            Haha.

          • Charles

            Did I pass the test? Now I’m paranoid that I failed!

          • Kirsten

            Yes you did, you spotted it. But I love paranoia, so Ill lie for once and say no.

          • Charles

            Well I’ve been accused of lying today. I appreciate the company.

          • Rainbow Shell

            I always loved the love boat but really I was always love american style with all those fireworks whew whew whew and gilligan’s island ..i was always stuck with maryan ya know the nerd I was too smart my aunt yp was always the bimbo never graduated you know anyhoo, she always had to be ginger, so that ship is sunk you know I have a better idea. why don’ t i just create a new character and draw her in my mind and then we’ll see which is the best catch you later xoxo

          • Kirsten

            Lol. I guess my life ambition was to be a bimbo! Too smart for that, and the tides out with nana knees now, but thats ok. Bimbos are fun.
            X

          • Rainbow Shell

            lol what a landslide. .it’ll bring you down. ..stevie nicks. i’m listening to it and gypsy wow . anyhoo, nana knees. titde is up and down on nana knees lol I’ll just be stevie and cinderella. .i’m actually listening to that song landslide and dreams my favorites. .ooh ooh

          • Kirsten

            One of my favourites. I love his facials, sheer love on the live youtube footage, but equally the beauty of the Dixie Chicks clip, the pregnant one. Its a beautiful song, something all mothers in their 40s should learn to appreciate. Yip, you wake up one day, put on shorts to head to the beach, then accidently look down and spot the nana knees. Then google clips of celebs your age to make sure they have them too!! Thanks Demi Moore. Then you listen to Affirmation by Savage Garden, just to check you arent in the catagory of beauty magazines promoting low self esteem, and make sure you can still do sit ups for the entire song lke you could 15 years ago. Then listen to Leather and Lace, do a quick wardrobe check to make sure no ‘over 45’s only ‘ or daggy jeans have managed to sneak in, and check you still wear heels. Check list done, you suck it up, then get on with life, vowing you will be ok as long as you never look at your boobs or bum, or eyebrows in case you find a grey eyebrow hair!! Then pop collegen pills with liquid vit C daily so at least you’re trying! Between coffees.
            Haha…ageing is great…not! Only old people say to age gracefully, theyve given up!

          • Rainbow Shell

            lol my ambition is to be a bimbo,/artist you know blonds always have more fun. I did a study on it once. They get preferential treatment. Doors are opened way quicker than they are for brunettes. I’m a brunette but have highlights 🙂 anyhoo, I am truly an artist with a good idea to undo America’s Warhol phase, well, let’s just say not bashing on Warhol but on the ideals Americans have created. .actually the whole world has certain ideals about women and heck this is a big problem . .if we weren’t placed on some kind of mantle or shelf then we might not be in trouble with trying to throw mighty fist around with chemical weapons and such, but you know it’s real that women are real and you know those pics of Maryln and cambell’s soup. Okay, so, I just thought of this so it’s still fuzzy in my mind, but I’m really going to paint it or something.. So, imagine a picture of the American dream ideal woman–Marylyn Monroe and then blast through it with another canvas and just tear the frig out of it. .bits of torn canvas peeled away, paint and all right through her painted lady lips lol and keep going in and in until you get to the core of the center of the composition which is another canvas with just a cross, a cross. .you know, it’s symbolic but one could put an indianthere insted .something sacred, just somethingg holy at the core of the thing we’re all trying to get to. .it’s like the sitcom seinfeld. .a life about nothing until you peel back the layers of the canvas and all the muck and truck of idealism. .ok so I’m a brunette. .i’m an indian and I am that I am 🙂 anyhoo, I’m still working on my art project plus the green man. i might change my avatar for easter 🙂 take care, xx

          • Kirsten

            Or paint Marilyn as she would be now…boobs and bum hitting her old lady knees!

          • Rainbow Shell

            it’s actually progressed. I’m going to paint me in it, and boobs are not hitting any old lady knees 🙂 of course, I have poetic license 🙂

          • Kirsten

            Haha, go for it. Im a stick figure!

          • Rainbow Shell

            not in my painting lol

          • Rainbow Shell

            no stick in it 🙂

          • Kirsten

            Its all I can draw!!! Lucky Im not doing a painting too!

          • Rainbow Shell

            I don’t draw sticks, but everyone has a gift for what they like drawing 🙂

          • Charles

            Kirsten, Quit freaking out…. no secrets have been told except my own which became a big deal.

          • Kirsten

            Freaking out…wtf?? Im on planet Earth and personally know no one in here, I have no secrets, sorry to be so boring.
            But it sounds like you do, or think you’ve uncovered something. Do tell!

          • Charles

            I’ve uncovered nothing, your message to mewabe sounded like you gave up his name or something. You do nothing of the sort.

          • Rainbow Shell

            if you speak to yourself, have two disque accounts and call yurself me but you’re really you, then you might need a doc but um speak for yourself. I have only one disque account with two surnames and I only call me me . I just prefer to be always incognito online. i mean who knows what or what is on topic crazytalk from flakes and cakes and teflon green. ..no. no. no. no for the record, I wouldn’t do teflon no commercial to me. I am real just not stupid xx

          • Kirsten

            Hi ya,
            I was teasing him for getting our names mixed up!
            Xx

          • Rainbow Shell

            I know. Teasing is for lil old ladies 🙂 we’re too hip for that lol leather and lace, my favorite, too

          • Rainbow Shell

            we’re turning into a sitcom here like Seinfeld, a postmodern rendition of life where we speak of nonsense, just to keekp it up, it’ snothing. we’re just spouting nothing and nothing is nothing. alrightso here is my deal. I’m Cinderella, literally, but no pumpkin to me, okay? I only want the coach to Venice preferably with tht hunkadunka godsinger from Q’uador Ezuador wowza he’s my prince. seriuosly, this is going to turn into another post I dcelete because I care but I am still wondering why we are not redirecting this global conversation and acting a little better. whew gotta go my coach is waiting

          • Kirsten

            Yes, it sure is a sitcom, and a hilarious one at that. One based around online names! Sprouting nothing is good…thats what conversation is.
            I think everyone has come up with something for Syria etc, no one needs to say that everyone with an ounce of sanity would ban chemical weapons, and many others.
            Neale said he would read this thread with interest before offering his own views, its his turn now.
            Although when he does read it ‘with interest’ Im sure he will end up back in hospital. The laughter at a really bad sitcom, or the horror at what has become of his serious site will do him in!
            Xx

          • Rainbow Shell

            It’s true we have come up with some brilliant ideas here 🙂 let’s see someone suggested a) ban on all spirituality lol b) throw a concert in syria with ..that was your idea dear god. .ok, I still say my think tank idea of the lists in the shoe box was never the best idea either but it sure beats those two lol and . .I think I well let’s just hope Neale comes up with something better than was einstein wrong or right. after all, he is the shining one with all the books and bucks. We need an answer or at least a prayer session, in my view. xx

          • Kirsten

            Hey…..Ive already bought tickets to go to my concert in Syria, flights were cheap! Have your shoe box ready, I’ll meet you there, it’ll be a really good concert. Haha.
            Neale will sell them a book and tell them to read nicely.

          • Rainbow Shell

            been there already. remotely, of course, and not sure they’re singing with the americans right at the moment. my shoebox has makeup in it, but only for me. pink flamingo lipstic off limits 🙂

          • Sam

            “Sams obviously out of a Dr Seuss book”

            Hey, that doesn’t fit my self-image — damn 🙂 No wonder they put you on an island in the middle of nowhere 🙂

          • Kirsten

            Haha, damn broken mirrors! But you did say ‘i am’ to Mewabe!!
            Exactly why I live on a island, quarantine. Rabies.

          • Rainbow Shell

            But, all mirrors are broken! Eve is fallen, but who wants to be a mirror anyway? I am I am. Happy Easter!

    • Rainbow Shell

      Kissing online is not doable, unless it is but bits are pretty much sealed from that sort of thing 🙂 At any rate, I persoana am ingcognito for a damn good reason. .id theft u know and that sort of thing. I’ve been a long time blogger and know the repercussions so take no offence at my “handle.” It reminds me of the ol’ cb radio days. My handle was “Stardust” and my mother/grandmother *she raised me, okay?) wqs “cactus blossom”. Now, if she can use a handle and I was just maybe 10 then so can I. It’s cool to use a handle.

    • Jethro

      “My answer is, once again, to create an event, such as I’ve described in which the world is more or less forced to respond to in a global conversation.”

      I think the key word here is “force”. Quit trying to “force” anything. I’m going to accept that the Global conversation is being had. The only thing you and I or anyone can do about it in action is to not be that which we don’t like. So don’t be a christian or a new age believer if you don’t want to, don’t try to force others to not be what/who they are. We may never find the answer to the worlds problems but we can find the answer to our own problems… if we want to. Isn’t that the goal?

    • Jethro

      Do I look more convincing now, my friend Patrick? Not a conductor of experiments? Or Sam, or Neale, or a pervert, or a kisser of tails? I’m not sure what to say about being a Plumber “OR” an educated man, Maybe a well educated Plumber, I’ll even accept uneducated plumber. It’s ok to believe or not believe in what I have said. I have expressed my thoughts based on many experiences and ideas I have had about many things. I have had many experiences and grew up trying to figure out who God really is, it’s why I’m here. Always honest though, You really should ask me things when you don’t understand, so that I may explain. Which admitted deception are you referring to by the way, I’m a little confused about that one.

      • Patrick Gannon

        I suspected that Charles was Jethro, called you out on it, and you admitted it – that was the deception. I don’t know who you are; you play both sides, sometimes telling me I’m completely correct and in the next post, jumping on Annie’s bandwagon.

        Yes, I enjoy the discourse. My goal is to act as a counterpoint to Neale. He needs to be challenged. He puts out his spiritual woo without a shred of objective evidence – and makes a living doing it. Someone needs to challenge him.

        I don’t know you, so there’s no way for me to dislike you, but I do dislike deceit. I dislike the way a serious topic is degraded by side discussions having nothing to do with the topic at hand.

        • Jethro

          I deceived nobody, I just didn’t announce anything. I gave you the biggest clue knowing you would recognize it and denied nothing. No deception. My posts were not probing or directed. I posted the same as I always have, in the same manner that I always have. Once again, no deception. As far as agreeing and disagreeing, I can see both sides of the coin, I argue with myself so nothing new. Your problem with me only seemed to appear after I changed my name…”that’s” a little deceitful don’t you think? I changed my name back to Jethro to eliminate the upset. I urge you to be a more forthcoming with your thoughts in the future. It will make the conversation a bit more interesting don’t you think?

          A serious topic… I posted a lengthy post worded more like the debate you appeared to want to have and you touched on it with a one sentence answer, but wrote a very lengthy reply about my name change, a name that shouldn’t be important to anyone but me. You have bragged about using your real name and chastised me for doing it. I’m not concerned about trolls or false names or those who post as Santa Claus, Why are you? The part that matters is the text under the name…Isn’t it?

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’m dealing with a funeral and other difficult family issues. I don’t have time for a lengthy response, and this blog has gone out of control, vying off in all sorts of directions having nothing to do with the original post or things I’m interested in discussing.

            The general consensus from the blog standard bearers is that my idea sucks. I got that, and the people who protest the loudest are the least likely to be swayed, so the exercise has become futile. I think I’m finished here until Neale puts up another post.

            You are upset because I did not respond to all your questions about my motivations. I’m not here to discuss my motivations; in this particular thread I was here to discuss an idea to shake up the world and start a real conversation. Nobody here seems to want to shake up the world, presumably because some people might have their feelings hurt.

            You gave me the “biggest clue…” That means you were deceiving us with your name. Why would you have to give “clues” unless you were being deceptive? You gave a mistaken impression – that’s deception; look up the meaning of the word. You come in as one person, delete all your posts, come in as another person, delete all your posts, strange man, strange… what is your motivation for such strange behavior? (Actually that’s a rhetorical question – I don’t care, please don’t bother to explain).

            In future threads I will respond to reasonable questions that you ask about any of my posts, but when it comes to this thread – unless someone says something truly worthy of additional discussion, I’m done till the next article.

          • Jethro

            Arguing never stopped an argument so I’ll let it go. Peace and best wishes to you and your family.

  • Rainbow Shell

    Sorry abut the digression off Neale’s topic. I didnt mean to go there. Te truth is I am getting ready to deplete them so thanks for the chat, Kirstin. .It’s just Neale doesn’t have a thread for the remote topic and that’s really not a go for us, too:)

    • Kirsten

      Michelle…I doubt anyone reads long threads and any off the topic stuff, no one is quite that wierd, this has hundreds of comments. Stay as Rainbow Shell, dont dump them all by cancelling your disqus account. This is your journey.
      Youve done amazingly well, Im soooooooooooooo proud of you.
      Xx

      • Rainbow Shell

        I’ve got three blogs to work on and I’ve been slacking on writing my book lol we’re working on Neale’s dream and he has gazillion dollars. I have to make a few 🙂

      • Spiritual_Annie

        I’m weird, and proud to be so!

        • Kirsten

          Hahahaha, you go girl…it would certainly read as a funny book. Cringe. Print it and put it in a time capsule to open in 20 years. A cross section of the human race in 2017…they’ll have a heart attack.
          Take care Annie, and I hope the Easter Bunny came.
          Xx

          • Rainbow Shell

            I hope the easter bunny brings everyone what they deserve, which is likely a rotten egg lol for clogging Neale’s blog. I am in no time capsule to open in 20 anything 🙂 Have a happy easter all 🙂

        • Bruce Scott-hill

          No you are not weird. As Neale has said “God only gives us Angels!” But i am proud you are proud – stay positive forever!

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Bruce,

            Thank you. Actually, I’ve reached an age where I can be called eccentric, and I rather like it that way. 😃

            I’ve got a history of being seen as different, which I see as a blessing. It gives me an opportunity to explain why, which has created some of the most special deep friendships in my life and opened the door for me to help others who’ve experienced abuse. That’s a great blessing, and one of my gifts and purposes.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Bruce,

            Thanks! Actually, I’m old enough now to be called “eccentric,” which I prefer anyway. 😉

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

  • Bruce Scott-hill

    Neale speaks of “Unity”, yet our reality (world) is the opposite. The solution Neale asks for is surely firstly to strive for that – the first step toward accepting the concept of Oneness. Perhaps with now a USA leader, the epitome of exclusiveness – is what mankind needs to learn the hard way to both abhor this, the denial of truth and insatiable greed. This might hopefully happen with Global warming – when eventually the whole world will convince the USA to “abandon putting USA first” and to care for all equally as an example to other Nations. Therefore, we need to do either nothing or collectively call out and shout from the roof tops against all others who put themselves first wherever they may be.

    • Sam

      “Neale speaks of “Unity”, yet our reality (world) is the opposite. The solution Neale asks for is surely firstly to strive for that – the first step toward accepting the concept of Oneness.”

      Oneness was before “big bang”, so to speak, and everything is moving back to it; an unstoppable force.

      “Perhaps with now a USA leader, the epitome of exclusiveness – is what mankind needs to learn the hard way to both abhor this, the denial of truth and insatiable greed.”

      History is full of old “failures” we learned from. And, yes, soon again, it will be crystal clear, for the next push forward. Some other outcome doesn’t exist, only as temporary detours.

      • Mateia Andrei (A true friend)

        “Oneness was before “big bang”, so to speak, and everything is moving back to it; an unstoppable force.” What if I don’t want too? Is God going to shove oneness down my throat?

        • Sam

          Yes.

          • Mateia Andrei (A true friend)

            Then he better be prepared to wait beyond infinity. Here is just some good food for your though. Either we obey the Abrahamic God or he sends us to hell. Either we wish to be one with everything or God shoves oneness done our throat. Do you see any parallels?

          • Sam

            The Abrahamic God is silly. A joke. The real God is yourself, at the highest stage. Only that you don’t remember it at the moment. To be one with God, is just to be yourself again. You never sign up as a human without this promise and contract. To “shove it down you throat” was your own demand and idea. To play a human is heavy, and nothing you want to do forever.

          • Mateia Andrei (A true friend)

            Speak for yourself. If this is my idea then as God I should just kill myself for being such a idiot.

          • Sam

            “Speak for yourself.”

            Speaking my mind like everyone else.

            “If this is my idea then I should kill myself for being such a idiot.”

            This is anger towards God — whomever or whatever it is. Few people haven’t been there, at one time or another, myself included. I can explain why, and how, things are, from what I find to be true, but I do not always defend it, as being a human too. The level of terror/hardship is too much, as I see it. The only consolation is that things will be better, and progress a law of nature.
            God is pure energy, and cannot be killed. This, therefore, eternal life, and static perfectness, are the reason for walking the Earth, that was created. Giving us drama, challenges, and purpose.

          • Mateia Andrei (A true friend)

            Then chose to be separate from the universe, God and everything else.
            I simply don’t chose any of you anymore or Gods idea of life. This won’t ever go away because unlike you my words don’t come from emotions they come from choice. I chose to be a separate thing from the all.

          • Sam

            “This won’t ever go away because unlike my words don’t come from emotions they come from choice. I chose to be a separate thing from the all.”

            A choice, one makes, have to be re-confirmed in every single moment to stay firm, or it will change, or simply disappear. Nothing changes more than choices, even in the form of promises. They are broken non-stop and all the time. This because of the incoming stream of new experiences and information changing the game (growing older/understanding more). Slightly, or, and especially over time, having things set in a completely new light.
            I say all choices from decision-making will be broken, or disappear, as not coming from a spontaneous heart/soul, which holds the only eternal truths. I think you will find out too.

          • Mateia Andrei (A true friend)

            Just as God has chosen to create and recreate this universe again and again so similar is my choice. Your are about to find out that some things that you though aren’t possible are actually possible.

          • Sam

            I understand you are dead set 🙂 But the human mind is way inferior to that of a God. Like holding just one little piece of the puzzle vs having it all. What you think is possible, is not. I say.

          • Mateia Andrei (A true friend)

            Let’s agree to disagree.

      • Bruce Scott-hill

        Thank you Sam for your reply. I guess inevitably we have made progress and as you say “learned from our old failures”. Can’t wait for your “…next push forward”. I agree it must happen. I just hope it doesn’t take too long such that many wonderful souls suffer. Hopefully a quick tipping point will be reached due to what Spiritual_ Annie say’s: “Trump is a contextual field against which we can appreciate who we really are. We cannot know our own Light without knowing darkness.” Difficult to believe this happened by accident and instead it is surely a blessing and gift by our God/creator for us all!

        • Sam

          “Difficult to believe this happened by accident”

          Trump is for sure no accident, but the culmination of all the little things (and big) we do “wrong” every day, that adds up to be a monster, if we are not able to see it in no other way. Exactly how Hitler came to power, and how we then finally learned something.
          Like a spiral (upward movement from some improvements) history in a circle repeating itself.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Trump is a contextual field against which we can appreciate who we really are. We cannot know our own Light without knowing darkness.

      • Bruce Scott-hill

        My earlier reply to you Spiritual_Annie was crazily deleted – yet it was very nice. I love what you said, and it sure adds to the discussion. God bless!

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Bruce,

          Thank you. Yes, the site seems to be acting up a bit. And it’s good to “see” you here! 😀

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

  • Kirsten

    This is one crazy thread!!!! Do we all need to choose a country or food item in Patricks food fight in the name of world peace?
    Your game, your rules Patrick. You started it, dont be a defeatest!
    I would personally suggest a huge concert in the middle east somewhere, a weekend one that US troops put on for everyone, live screens up everywhere, with songs the world knows, probably pre 80s before America started worshipping tit flashers etc as musical role models. Drink Coke, wear Levis and remind the world that Americans once had morals, which is why we used to like them. Cat Stevens could be the only person that could pull it off, one foot in the West, and the other Muslim, and hes touring this year. He is the only person on this planet that could build a bridge of Peace, and America need to face up to the fact that there is a reason they are deemed infidels…look the word up and try to understand the views of others. Anyone who fires anything during the concerts is just plain crazy, everyone loves music, and at the core, want to be happy. Those crazies who dont love music or fire weapons during a great concert weekend should then be executed……they have no soul!!!
    Until then….Patricks idea is great. Exchange all weapons for food and make all wars a food fight. Feed the poor in the process.
    Xx

  • mewabe

    486 comments!
    The best are, in my opinion, those that are light and funny. Humor is also a spiritual quality!

    • Rainbow Shell

      they do tend to look stuffy, a little overworked, tired, under the gun so to speak, when they pull the weapon trigger. we need more humor in office. That’s for sure.

      • Kirsten

        This is their humour Shell, narcissists, psychopaths etc have slightly different humour to us!

        • Rainbow Shell

          psychopaths never welcome. and, narcissists? well, too bad people can’t behave like my grandmum 🙂

    • Sam

      From the start of only villages, towards ever larger constellations, a world union is bound to happen sooner or later. An unstoppable evolution, driven forward by all the advantages learned from working together as a whole. And the biggest price, the elimination of all wars, and the industry rooting it on.

      • mewabe

        True, that seems to be the natural evolution. Hopefully it will happens without a blood bath, and without any coercion.

    • Kirsten

      501 comments, there were more yesterday, obviously some are gone. But if you use a Samsung tablet, the deleted ones show for a minute or so, including Sams long missing one, then it reformats to a normal thread.
      Right again Mewabe…you’re on a roll! This ‘nice’ has to stop. : )

      But….your conspiracy idea is all prophecised about. Thats what Christians define as Satan or 666. The anti-christ. Its about a one world government, ruling with peace for a few years until the true agenda is shown, with the mark of the anti-christ (christ meaning law, christ consciousness etc) being the mark of Solomon…his name means peace, so the peace sign..a game to turn God against people before judgement day, so God becomes the bad guy putting consequences in place. Just telling you in case you aren’t aware of it since I know you havn’t read scripture. There are about a dozen different prophecies that people would be able to see happening now if they looked. But thats not to say I believe in it, but they do.
      Back in Dec 2012, when people were hyped over the Mayan EOT prophecies, Neale was gearing to launch a huge worldwide Peace campaign. I told him it was too dangerous, in here, that Christians were looking for it, and he would endanger all his groupies and family by using the word peace, especially with him at the helm. Unsure if he listened but it didnt happen. In the end I had to be blunt and tell him they would assume he was anti christ…Solomons profile of love of females, a breeder, good looking back in his younger days.

      Are our leaders intelligent or stupid…..it doesnt matter, it gets down to freedom and money. Those with wealth have the freedom to generally do whatever they want. And they do. In this world money gives freedom so all we are seeing is the wealthy and those they enlist doing whatever they want, as they always have. Its a game, its all a game. Walmart is part of a game to turn the masses ugly and cause climate change, globalisation is a game, many are puppets for those in other realms. Its up to the masses…that I define as billions of little people, each looking at their life and say NO…I will not get fat, I will not go crazy, my son will not enlist, I will not be homeless, I will not drink the cheap booze you make, I will not buy music from bad influences etc. I dont see them as the masses…I see them as individuals, but the stupid ones, allowing others to play our strings and be in their games, while they just do whatever they want.
      We need to say NO, I will not become a boring clone gulled into to talking about things I cant change…I am human, I have potential, I laugh, I cry, I smile, I have fun, and I chat and converse normally, not the cloned boring robot you want me to be…because I am human, an intelligent person, and a part of this real world that is nothing but a game to you. And why? Because its MY world and MY life.
      No is the hardest word to say, and the word people hate hearing, and will try to convince you to change your no to a yes. Don’t be dumb…just say no.

      Easter Sunday sermon over, choose your own boring church song of the day. I’ll take People Are Strange, always a good Sunday song!! Psycho Killer might be on the playlist as well….just to make things awkward.
      Take care,
      K

    • Kirsten

      My reply was deleted, but the one world or govt concept is what the anti christ prophecies are all about, and start with peace.

      • mewabe

        I wonder why your reply was deleted…I did not have time to read the whole thing, I was going to go back to it to finish reading and then…POOF! it was gone.
        Things are getting weirder in America by the minute. We have a 10 years old in the White House (SAD!) who engages in tweeting feuds with just about anybody who challenges him and comes with with such intelligent arguments as “looser!”…and we have extremists going nuts in the street, beating each other up like hooligans. Time to emigrate. perhaps…

        • Kirsten

          People should be doing something good for others or the environment every day…thats called being human.
          Xx

          • mewabe

            Yes…there are many people in the world, but very few human beings.

          • Kirsten

            Hi Mewannabepaintingnotmeetingdeadlines,
            Exactly…and as you pointed out about this thread, before people deleted all their posts by cancelling disqus, or, I assume, setting up new accounts, its the general chit chat and the light posts that are start with humanity…people remembering we are all just people, the lost art of conversation, especially with neighbours and strangers in the street.
            Well…not quite your redneck neighbours with their drone and guns!!
            Nothing fried bread wont fix.
            Take care,
            Kirsttodochoresallday

            PS I actually like that 10 year old side of Trump, just a pity he has power and access to dangerous big boy toys. Its nice when politicians or anyone shows their human side! Especially publically, its the robots I cant stand, brainwashed!

          • mewabe

            True (mennabepainting)!
            And true too about being human…everyone is way too serious (including professor, my alter ego…who bores me to death).
            Native Americans have a great sense of humor, usually…I heard that the Dalai Lama likes Native Americans because they joke with him and don’t treat as if he were anything special (they don’t kiss his feet or whatever you are supposed to do in his “holy” presence).
            I think the whole world needs to lighten up right now…we need to take life more seriously, and our little egos far less seriously.
            Trump is refreshing in a way, being so unpolished…but yeah, having access to such weapons should not be allowed for a 10 years old. They might have to take away his tweeting account.
            Take care Kirstendingtochores,
            Mewannasleepforaweeknonstop

          • Kirsten

            Mewabeboringprofessor,
            Yip, the professor bored me to death as well!
            Kirstasaghostnow

          • Spiritual_Annie

            “Troll in Chief”… I may have to borrow that one! Is that CCO licensed? With or with out accreditation? And there oughtta be one of them there IT programmer types who could set it up so when he taps on “tweet,” it gets discarded instead of tweeted, only he doesn’t know it.

            Personally, I think he’s the largest predator drone America has created. (NK)*

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

            *NK=Not Kidding

        • Spiritual_Annie

          …And in proportion to the damage done (or as close as we can, without losing the jobs that pay the bills). That would keep us too busy to start WW3! 🙃

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

  • Victor Lopez Rossi

    With 488 comments at this point, this has became illegible…! What a maze!

    Waiting for Neale’s comments now, as he promised…

    He offered his own observations about all this,

    (In the meantime, North Korea – USA tension is upbringing………)

  • Kirsten

    OMG……Charles has ‘killed’ himself off. Thats sad….bullying is never OK. Provocation or reacting, yes…bullying no. We aren’t at high school.
    Charles, start a new Disqus, it’s a sitcom, the script reads just a tad odd with yours gone. And exactly why Rainbow Shell shouldn’t do it either.
    Take care Roy, I know you will check in to read up.
    K

    • Rainbow Shell

      Charles knows how to create a new disqus. No one bullied him. Why read anything into anything we said lol sitcom is meaningless. No need to imagine meaning in it. I might quit. I don’t know. Not sure I enjoy even the poetry channels I frequent. Energy is felt wow so Charles is free and said he was maybe going to quit and spend more time with his girl. .I think, unless I mixed him up with Sam.

      • Kirsten

        Yeah I know. He was offended at being accused of lying, or that he may be Neale playing games, plus wrongly assused of flirting and kissing up to people. Hes married, and its not ok to say things like that. Frivilous is one thing, especially in a sit com, but things like that cross the line.
        Dont mix him up with Sam, someone said he was Sam as well.
        But the other involved is very stressed, very stubborn and takes offense to people using false names, and changing names, even when he changed to his real name.
        Point is, the internet can be dangerous, tempers can flare and people may say and do things they wouldnt in real life.
        People here are real, with feelings and sometimes issues and others react accordingly, and when people assuse you of lying when you may be speaking the truth, could be hurtful.
        Someone else is the one I worry about though, not Charles, who goes by Roy in real life, and Jethro in Geotech so it was already his disqus name.
        I do hope that guy is ok in spite of getting what he deserved.

        • Rainbow Shell

          Oh well. Charles can handle himself, I am sure. It can be dangerous, and this is why I use a pseudonym. I’m off. Take care.

          • Kirsten

            Yip, you take care too. Leave your posts up, you’re in the sit com. Every sit com needs a frying pan!!
            Stay happy, and grounded,
            K
            Xx

          • Rainbow Shell

            no yip to me 🙂 I might. Don’t know yet. I am working on my book 🙂 can’t wait. Got my new laptop and ready to rock and roll with it. Grounded is for the birds, and that I am 🙂

    • Rainbow Shell

      Nope. I’m here if I need to be 🙂 GRRRRRRRRRRRR not on your life. I just think Neale didn’t like what he was viewing, okay? I will deplete any nonsense from here on out. We’re solving world crisis issues and we got off topic. I’m back, but Neale usually makes a post on Easter, and he hasn’t. He must not like the energy. I’ve been around his blog since 2007, so I know when he gets quiet. I’m staying quiet until further notice.

      • Kirsten

        Happy energy is good energy, no matter the cause, conversation or people. To think Neale would not like what he was viewing, when this has been a rare thread, entertaining rather than boring, would to go against Neales own beliefs and teachings….and all spiritual teachings for that matter. When Y’shua/Jesus told people to be like little children, he was teaching a Universal Law of the soul. A smiling soul is a good one.
        : )

        • Rainbow Shell

          I know but we got a little too happy 🙂 at any rate, I am never boring lol I am swirling the galaxies, so to speak, always. Have a grand day! Hopefully, Neale will come in so we don’t have to go on again about everything under the sun and beyond again 🙂

    • Spiritual_Annie

      I saw a post from a Jethro since then. I’m not sure if it’s the same one or not.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Kirsten

        Nice…thanks Annie. I hope so.
        Take care,
        K

    • Jethro

      The energy was transformed… again. Not killed. 🙂 While the conversation gets out of hand at times, each one of us are a student and a teacher. I hope my views benefit someone, some views certainly benefit me. I may slow down but I’m not so sure I’ll sign off permanently. Each person has something to offer and I do enjoy it. Thanks for the envite back.

  • Bruce Scott-hill

    The message is getting too complicated, so we need slogans. Like: “We need to put all countries and people first, not just America and Americans.” Also, perhaps: the three N’s: “Nurture others, Nurture ourselves and Nurture nature.

    • Kirsten

      I’d go for Stop Suffering…in every context, from abuse, regaining self respect to banning profitting from the suffering of others and animals, to activism and anti war. If it causes suffering, its just old fashioned wrong!!

      • Bruce Scott-hill

        Nice Kirsten! Go! Go! We have to shout from the rooftops!

    • Rainbow Shell

      Nurturing is all about Freedom. As we nurture others, we nurture ourselves. As we do unto others, we do unto ourselves.

      • Bruce Scott-hill

        Thank you for your reply Rainbow Shell. The dictionary meaning of nurture, is “caring and protecting”, so I love this word. Imagine the world if we did this to others everywhere and they did the same to us all. Most forget though the great truth you say – that: “As we nurture others we nurture ourselves”. So what we give, therefore we always get back! In my slogan I was wishing to create a triad. We do also have to take care of ourselves. Some don’t much at all e.g. those who drink excessively or take drugs.Some even work too hard and disregard their health.

        • Rainbow Shell

          I listen to music for my health. In fact, drink and drugs not even on my list of to do, except coffee of course and water. ..water water everywhere. At any rate, I am dreaming of a triad too. That’s why I mentioned some form of the word “Nurture” in my post 3 x: “Nurture(ing) is Freedom. As we nurture others, we nurture ourselves.” Silly, but true. Right now I am listening to Willie Nelson. ..”Always on my mind” wow wee whew Have a good day!

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Bruce,

      I like that you put others before ourselves. I’d even put nature before ourselves, as in something like “Nurture others, nurture nature, and you nurture yourself.” The last part can kinda be read two ways (I like wordplay).

      How about an about-face on “America for Americans” (which I’ve never personally liked): “Earth for Earthlings!” Or it could be reversed into “Earthlings for Earth!” I thought about the word global, but it has negativity attached to it from globalization leading to a New World Order.

      Just brainstorming. “Love internally, love externally, love exponentially” (internally first because that’s where it all starts)… “When peace is internal, peace is eternal”… “Love everything as if it is God”

      I also like “All is One” which is mewabe’s rewording of “We are all One”… “There is only one thing: Everything” (my rewording of the longer version)… and “Just who do you choose to be?” (a take on the confrontational “just who do you think you are?”).

      Oy! You and Rainbow Shell have got me going… in a good way. 😁

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Kirsten

        Hi Annie,
        One Universal Law, under the Laws of Progess and Language, is that when people reach a certain level, language ‘majic’ kicks in. Everything they say will work perfectly in all contexts of the words they choose…a different type of language, almost like a code, and its automatic. Scripture is written in this ‘code’, completely different when you read words differently. Its quite funny, as words revert to more simplified ones…the complexities within simplicity..the core of language.
        Like you seem to be experiencing now.
        Take care,
        K

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Kirsten,

          I like it when you share that kind of information because I’m not familiar with Israelite Laws and meanings from your unique perspective as a first lifer, so thank you for that. I’ve heard scripture contains code, but wasn’t sure what was really meant by that. I thought that was Kabbalah, which (as I understand it) is the mystical side of Judaism..

          I have always, it seems, been a writer. I’ve kept a journal since I was in the 7th grade. I aced all my creative writing courses, but didn’t fare so well with essays and reports.

          Then, one day I was journaling and I noticed I was writing one line at a time, with one thought per line. Prose! I’ve written reams of those as well, though now they’re in a landfill somewhere along with my journals because… well, that’s a long story.

          When I got online and started sharing parts of my history, I kept hearing from various people at different sites that I should write a book. I started sharing some of my prose in the last couple of groups I’d joined, and I kept hearing that I paint pictures with words. I am writing that book, but it’s in spurts. When I do have a go at it, it comes so easily that it flows. Then I’ll have to do something else, like walk the dog or answer the phone, and the flow is gone until the next time.

          I love language. I love to read, write, speak and play with words. I don’t always speak often, but I’m told I’m wise for my years… for the past few decades. I think it’s partly that, because I’m quiet, when I do speak it stands out.

          I do hope our Jethro is back!

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          • Kirsten

            Hi Annie,
            I am a Kabbalist…not deliberately, its just the word for what I had been for years without knowing, all instinctive though.
            Its not really secretive, its more that its the standard journey through life, that we arent really meant to know or it would have groupies and cheaters. You really are your own teacher. Einstein, da Vinci etc were all Kabbalists, its actually common but people dont know, I can spot it though.
            But you are right about language..it’s sheer majic, and the key to everything, a gift and an art to many. I love it as well.
            I write books for my my own entertainment, more fun to write what I want to read when I can never find it…now on about book 6 in a series, set in a Heaven on Earth…4000 pages in a year at bedtime rather than reading. But the majic flows, something catches me constantly that I didnt see coming like Im not the author although know I inadvertantly set the situation up to happen. In fiction its when characters take on a life of their own (I have a whole town), its like just watching them in my head and recording what they say and do now. I had to get the characters perfect, like Shonda Rimes with Greys Anatomy. Its fun when you cant deviate from the characters, like non fiction within fiction, the challenge and a great psychology assignment. Especially like a guy with one leg, having to find condidence to start a new relationship when hes on crutches (its in 1978) so cant hold hands etc. You learn so much writing, including seeing what is deep within your own soul. But writing is a part of the journey back to Eden, where the perfect human soul is a requirement, writing is kind of like exams without us knowing. As are sites like this…tests in free thinking, confidence etc.
            Youve mentioned “the long story”, a sad one, but understand your perspective on it now differs from me. Im an empath, so feel what you felt when you write things….and cry! As long as the landfill hasnt taken over your brain, then everything youve written will be stored in you somewhere.
            That book will do well, self publish it online. “Annies Song”. All language is music. Music is the language of the soul.
            Take care Annie.
            K
            Xx (Kabbalah double kiss on a forehead, as we all instinctively do to babies and pets. The seal of God).

            PS yes Jethro is back, he just posted me to say he was. Resurrected a day late!!

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Kirsten,

            I haven’t tried to write fiction in a long time. I used to write short stories that were filled with wordplay and symbolism. 4000 pages! Wow. I’m in awe.

            I like that you challenge yourself in your writing with your unique characters, and I imagine intermingling nonfictional characters would be even more of one.

            I’ve learned a lot about myself and even my own life when I’ve gone back to reread my journals. I’ll think that I wrote one thing only to find out I wrote something else, usually details I didn’t consciously pull up. Like, instead of “a very short distance” was written as “eight steps,” and I could mentally see where those eight footfalls landed. Fascinating thing, the mind, with all its levels and compartmentalization.

            No, mine’s going to be another autobiography. I’ve written it before, for a therapist, but this will be much longer as I’ve more than 20-some years to add to that one (if I still had it). Some might say my head’s full of rubbish, but I know there’s a lot of my history in it that will come out of its own accord. Might make for some interesting reading for me, too! 😉

            The kisses on the forehead are more appropriate than you may know. I was born with a birthmark on my forehead, which my father called “the mark of Cain” and used it to justify (in his mind, anyway) some of his actions, even though it was gone in a week.

            Write on, sistah!

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Kirsten

            Hi Annie,
            Glad the forehead is all healed, and now sealed!!!
            Justification…..excuses! The word just is a neutral state, a justice system is meant to do exactly that, try to neutralise things by punishing the perpetrator, as restoration for the victim. So I hate people ‘justifying’ their actions…a mental disorder definately, as you well know. Imagine being able to convince youself that you caused the suffering of another for a reason.
            Really screwed up!!
            Take care Annie,
            K
            Xx

          • stardust

            The mind is full of many levels and compartmentalization. It’s so true. How fun that the mind offers up 8 steps instead of 3. Have you ever heard that song give me three steps mister give me three steps towards the door. Lynerd Skynard. Wow that is me. Have a good day.

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Spiritual_Annie
            Just had to but in and add my voice to Kirsten, you must publish. You mention flow. This I have an affinity with – as I recently finished a book, much of which was written in this state of flow – to the extent (like Neale) that honestly don’t feel I was responsible for much of it. (My super-self upstairs must be a pretty good writer and seeker after truth). Anyway It is a science book, and it (not me) won a National 2016 book prize in the mind/body/spirit genre.
            This plus the fact that you have exceptional word skills, are an advanced entity, and are a master at word games, means I will line up to read it when you finish doodling with other things. Just joking, as mine took a mere 15 years to research and write! (Just as well we are all immortal!)
            God Bless
            Bruce

          • Kirsten

            Reaearch…aagh!! I think I know the weather for everyday just out of New York, every brand, every car, song, food item, medical issue and procedure etc from 1977 & 1978. Except I need Billy Joel to cancel his concert on Sat 16??? Dec 1978, I need the stadium for a concert, plus if you also know the guy from Talking Heads, I would love if he could show up, he was in NY that weekend. Haha.
            Good for supporting Annie, she has stories people need to hear.
            Take care,
            K

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Bruce,

            Congrats on the prize! Now we’ll all have to Google you. 😉

            I doodle a lot. I’ve been on disability for long enough that I’ve slowed waaaay down. I was a Type A perfectionist that held a supervisory job, helped run a church when I became the de facto Administrator after the Senior Pastor quit, and was in a challenging (in a good way) relationship when life as I knew it crumbled. Now I do well to walk my inherited dog four times a day, for his exercise and mine—1-12 blocks each way. I do what I can, and ask for help with the rest. When I’m on my “computer” (tablet), I switch from laying on one side to the other regularly. (Couldn’t sit at a desktop if I had one, anyway.)

            But I have a roof over my head, food in my belly, clothes to wear, indoor plumbing, fresh water, electricity, WiFi, glasses (so I can see beyond my nose), meds I need, a miniature Schnauzer who loves me and whom I adore… Life is a grand adventure, and I’m grateful for what I have and can still do.

            Thanks for the encouragement! 😀

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Spiritual _Annie,

            Love and Blessings Always to you, also!

            I am so sorry for your suffering, yet thrilled that you remain so positive plus give us all so often your gifts, messages and conversations. I love your: “I have …..a miniature Schnauzer who loves me and whom I adore… Life is a grand adventure, and I’m grateful for what I have and can still do.”

            I take our beautiful Birman cat for a walk every day whom I too adore. Recently I decided to up the anti a bit and give him unconditional love in return for his – by letting him lead me and do what he likes completely without reservation – unless he is in danger on an adjacent road. And guess what! our walks now are really, really magnificent, even spiritual and he even leads me home. I kid you not. I learn so much from him and I guess he does from myself. (Next I’m going to try this out on a Lion – just kidding!). As Neale has said (paraphrasing) “we can experience heaven anywhere” and I do.

            Love you to bits Annie (metaphorically of course). I treasure you and pray for your physical healing, a happy life and freedom from pain.(There I go again – triads are becoming a habit).

            God Bless,

            Bruce

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Bruce,

            I’m an animal person who has a special place for cats. The last one, Dude! (exclamation point included), was half Maine Coon. He weighed probably 35 pounds or so, and had the big, fat tail and long tufts of hair that are typical of the breed. So, I love first that you walk your cat, and second what you allowed it to evolve into. (I miss having a cat around!)

            I don’t often suffer, although I’m in pain. I’m currently jumping through the hoops required by my insurance that will lead to my seeing a neurosurgeon for my back. I have a trinity of problems in my low back—severe stenosis, three severely bulging disks, and arthritis (I just found out about about the last one). My preference is surgery, although I don’t expect too much relief in pain. I just think it’s to the point where the damage needs to stop progressing (and is finally severe enough that the surgery will be covered—last I asked, it wasn’t). I’ll get there, and then I’ll have even more to be grateful for!

            Biscuit, my dog, I met about a year and a half ago, when I moved to Florida. He was my best friend’s dog, and we hit it off very quickly. When my friend passed over, her family didn’t want him (thankfully!). She died without a will, so her family was the legal default. I know how blessed I am that they didn’t take him even out of spite because they didn’t like my friend dealing with her issues, or want her to change into a strong and independent woman, and they blamed me for it all, having never met me. I’m so glad in how she grew just in the time I knew her because she turned her whole life around. But I love Biscuit for himself, and we’re a good fit. He’s 10 now, and slowing down. I have him registered as a service dog, so wherever I go, he can, too.

            Getting sleepy, and I’m rambling, so I’m going to go. There was some drama outside last night, so I’m going to see if I can nap. Thanks so much for the feedback and encouragement. It touches me (in an Agape way).

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Kirsten

            Hi Annie,
            We need to house swap…although my sitcom life will probably drive you loopy…..in a good way. Sanity is so overrated!!
            The Universe must have a memo out above my house saying crazy cat woman lives here! We now have 5, thats crossed the line. Lastest is a persian ragdoll cross, so inbred and thick it sits and just stares, as beautiful as she is, too perfect to even look real. Too thick to even eat unless you put her food right in front of her. Shes microchipped, returned to owner, but she just comes back, generally taking two weeks to arrive, a human 15 minute walk, so we’ve given up. Other cats hate her..but she’s too thick to realise and has claimed the conservatory that they dont use. Pyscho as well, rubs for a pat, then five pats later the teeth sink in, right in! I dont even think she knows what a tree is for although the others play outside all day.
            Ill call you when we’re overrun with them, you run the cattery and Ill hide in your mobile home!!
            Great your dog can be a service dog. My dog was an irish wolfhound crossed with black lab, she lived to be 13, dying about 7 years ago now. Rather untrained but did eat her icecreams like a human beautifully and could skateboard…thought she was human. They are amazing companions, and best friends.
            Take care Annie,
            K

          • stardust

            hey K, it’s stardust here, my original aka many. Just leave it at that 🙂 5 cats! woah I can only say I have only loved one cat. I had a simese once. .had to get rid of him he was a nut. Actually, I would have kept him but he would pounce like a tiger, creep up on you.. At any rate, i actually loved Eddy. damn that cat was nutting but a streetwalking mutha friggin tabby, but wasn’t even my cat but acted like it. He would come knocking on my door every night, and I would feed him cream and he would curl up in my lap. whew what a cat. One night, I heard. oh my god. It sounded like something out of Psycho really it was a screech. I’ll never forget that sound. It scared the frig out of me. Eddy was at my door, as usual, late in the night. I was in bed, newlywed, and I heard the loudest yell like a human cry. scared me. I opened the door and poor eddy stood there with bruises all over him, actually it was blood and cuts all over his head. He came in and I fed him.. He had been in a fight. what a dum dum always wandering finally he settled down. anyhoo, I’ll never love another cat like that one, but I’m a dog lover mostly and any dog will do. They all love me 🙂

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Annie,

            Thanks for sharing all that with me, I appreciate that!
            I love that animals teach us so much with their unconditional love.. Also that you Annie love animals and yours (as all animals do) treasure you. Sharing unconditional love with our cat Reilly (OK you’ve got it, we give him the life of “Reilly”) teaches me so much very day. Would that I could leap around just like him with my unconditional love for him, as he on occasions almost trips me up with his love, such is his enthusiasm to express his love for me. Just as your Dogs do, and lick your face. Reilly occasionally licks my face. But do I lick his face myself – never. So what a stuffy lot we humans are!

            Love and Blessings Always to you, too!,
            Bruce

          • stardust

            I love animals, too. Mine lick me in the face a little too enthusiastically. It is unconditional love. what a dog world love world if all had a dog love like mine 🙂

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi stardust,

            I agree, animals teach us all how to love – like – unconditionally.

            “Would that we should all unconditionally love others like animals love us”.

            There you go another triad slogan (maybe a quadrid? I’m not sure if there is such a thing), so – Neale like, and fun!. Hope Neale likes these. Goodbye I’m off too for the day (not Goodnight – as it is still beautifully sunny in late afternoon here in Nelson, New Zealand).

            Love you stardust,God Bless

          • stardust

            A quadrid? Is that quadrantid as in a meteor shower 🙂 I don’t know but quad is a derivation of foursome like four insulated conductors twisted into two joker circuits 🙂 kind of like the dna molecule. I kind of like the meteor shower idea best but I am an angel and have circled around the golden arc. I viewed that last week in a meteor shower beyond time and space got thrown back, of course. That’s what I mean. Elohim Eloher lol 2 jokers in it wow a twosome circuit is like a deck of cards with the 2 jokers in it. we could play cards in a meteor shower and light the world like a rocket ship with the 2 jokers in it. saw that one today and Elohim laughed at my joke when I said dumdum straight to him and I called me eloher 🙂 hu nutting hi nutting lol that’s between me and elohim, too and I am not capping that for elohim just because be a cause of nutting elohim nutting but nutting he gets nada nada phew lol There’s always two in every deck 🙂

            At any rate, Neale funny? Heck yea. I used to laugh and laugh at his jokes and his little baby tantrums. I mean not a full out temper flare but let’s just say they were passionate ideas about his own idea, which is you know godly. I mean Christ was passionate. We could call it empassioned. That is the right word. is that a word. Oh well, shakespeare made up his own words, too. He was passionate about his ideas, so passionate. Speaking of ideas. Where is he. He has so many ideas 🙂 He was so endearing. When I first came to his blog on beliefnet in 2007, dear god. ok uh I looked up to the guru. Whew I hope he doesn’t mind but He was never married then. He was single. I must admit on national tv I had a crush on a guru 🙂 I am sure he has had many who had many crushes on him and he was not married then and damn I was but not feeling it I am beyond all of that now thank god so no offence but he is damn funny. In fact, you can’t have a conversation with Elohim or Eloher unless you are damn funny. Yes He’s funny the cat’s meow yayuh

          • Kirsten

            Hey….Im a kiwi, Howick in Dorkland…..dont hate me!!
            K

          • stardust

            hey kiwi. what is howick in dorkland? if you don’t mind me asking. strange words. I’m from all over. Are those actual locations 🙂

          • Kirsten

            Hi. My city is Auckland, but the rest of the country dont like us, we’re nicknamed Dorkland! City of Dorks.

          • Kirsten

            Hi Moonbeam (anticipating next weeks name!),
            Your post to me ‘fell off’.
            Trust me…..I dont choose to have 5 cats!!!!! Im just gullible and a good slave. Hope ‘your’ attacked one was ok. Right now the old one that I think has dementia is standing on the edge of a box staring at me….she”s nuts. In the weekend she jumped on the bench to pee in the cutlery drawer that was open. Wtf???? yes, we have a clean litter box and catdoor. Nuts! Must be doolalley!
            K

          • stardust

            oh god. don’t know why that fell off. Here is what i said. I had two cats, a siamese which was nuts. It used to leap like a tiger around the coffee table. Scratched us as it leapt in the air, so mum got rid of it. Had to get rid of him. I would have kept him. I had a neighborhood cat when I was a newleywed that used to come to my doorstep every night. One night he screeched like a howling. I can’t even explain it. He was what I nicknamed “bruiser.” His name was Eddy, but he loved me. That’s all the post said. Did you say your cat was named psycho or were you just calling the cat that lolThat was the joke. WTF are you talking about with all those ???? noone asked about your kitter box Nuts dootalley that up. What’s the score. I don’t care. All I know is anybody brave enough to hold down a house with five cats is actually I don’t know because I’m mostly a dog person so don’t get me wrong. I loved Eddy. my neighborhood cat who always showed up faithfully every night for cream. That one night scared me though. He had gotten in a fight and showed up with scratches and blood all over him, screetching and chasing him all around. He was the only cat I truthfully loved. Usually they suck your breath don’t they lol that’s an old wives tale my granny used to say. One jumped on her when she was a baby and sucked her breath. That’s what I always heard. I think some cats were in heat when Eddy leapt at my door that night.. My ex said they make that sound when they’re in heat. Eddy went off. That’s all I know. He was a tabby and a wandering thing, but he lives in my heart to this day. I don’t know what you’re talking about. Have a goodnight.

          • Kirsten

            Hi. It was in context in a pet conversation I was having with Annie….bored waiting to see what Neale has in mind, to save Syria!
            Xx

          • stardust

            Ha Moonbeam is also a good name. I’m a cancer so a moonchild works too lol

          • Jethro

            Hi Annie, I am back as Jethro again. The name change seemed to create an upset that I don’t understand, but I don’t understand many things. I made a correction in the name and I’ll be called Jethro from now on. Notes from those who urged me to sign back in made me smile. My identity is not the label in the upper left corner, it’s the lengthy text just below that. I will call myself whatever somebody needs to hear if it brings peace to even one person. Patrick and I will be talking when he returns I’m sure. He accused me of many things that I would like to understand a little better.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            Jethro

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Yay, Jethro!

            If we could post graphics in here, I’d post one of Snoopy (from the Peanuts cartoon), doing his happy dance! And confetti. Lots and lots of confetti.

            Seriously, I was sad to see you leave as yours is a kind and calm voice in what can get to be a stormy atmosphere. Welcome back.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            Annie you are awesome! Thank you for the support. I can picture snoopy dancing with the confetti so no need to post it anyway.

            I wanted to change to my legal name the first time, after i signed out this past weekend I struggled with coming back in. I needed a break maybe. It just became too much for some reason. I believe I tried with Patrick but he’s relentless. I wish I could claim to always be kind and calm but we are all human, your quite kind and calm yourself most of the time. although everyone can be provoked. Thanks again annie. the goal to be better is a fair goal i think, best wishes to all of us.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            Jethro

          • Spiritual_Annie

            There you go with those words of yours again. Another of those reasons you’d be missed so much! Simple truth filled with wisdom.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • stardust

            Confetti and Snoopy oh my favorite cartoon. I’m Peppermint Patty, of see I always did like Chuck the little red haired girl gets nuthing:. He’s my best friend 🙂

          • Kirsten

            Hi Roy!!
            What…you want him to explain why you are a really crap flirt and kisser upperer?..haha!!
            Glad it didnt get the better of you for too long!
            Take care,
            K

          • Jethro

            He and I talked below. Nothing will ever come of it. Patrick challenges anything and everything looking for truth. I’ll just wish him well and hope he finds it.

          • stardust

            Ha

          • stardust

            I wouldn’t trust talking to everyone else. Trust your own heart. It always knows the truth 🙂

      • Bruce Scott-hill

        Hi Spiritual_Annie,

        Love and Blessings to you – too!

        Wow! Do I like your: “NURTURE OTHERS, NURTURE NATURE, AND YOU NURTURE YOURSELF” No I don’t. I honestly don’t.

        Instead, I absolutely love it! Also love hugely your “Love internally, love externally, love exponentially.” To me the word, “exponentially”, also seems fired appropriately (and rightfully) with the strong passion of emphasis and intent! Interestingly, reflecting on your word “internally” – esoteric literature (e.g. “Seth”) says: “One cannot love another, if one does not love oneself. It is impossible”. Therefore it is also appropriate that you should say this first. Both of these in our “game”, are of course (as they should be) – triads. Some might say this is pedantic, but I have found words and their order are very important – particularly if one is striving to find (remember) fundamental truths.

        Another one based on “Kindness”. Firstly I see “kindness” as huge, as it is the action of “love” itself. I love that the Dalai Lama, said: My religion is kindness. So a possible triad based on yours above: “Show all creatures kindness, plus all life, and you will experience kindness yourself”.

        God bless,
        Bruce

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Bruce,

          Wow… You’ve got me blushing! (That’s rare.) When I wrote the one on love, I almost used “outrageously,” but I think that was habit from elsewhere (Barbara Marx Hubbard and Marc Gafni). Is the Seth you’re referring to the one Jane Roberts channeled? I haven’t read the books in years, but I really connected with some of the ideas presented.

          I hadn’t thought of kindness. Hmmm… I’m not sure, but something’s brewing. I like to think of being kind to our environment, as well. It’s not popping out of my brain quite yet.

          My two biggest ideas I express about life are unconditional love and compassion. I’ve been bouncing around those two… “Love unconditionally and you will be unconditionally loved” is one I came up with a while back, along with “Compassion is Love in Action.”

          If the one on kindness pulls itself together, I’ll be sure to post it.

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Spiritual_Annie,

            Love and Blessings to you Always, too.

            Yes I did refer to the “Seth” of Jane Roberts. I read many of the 10 books concerning “Seth” teachings first many years ago and gained my first introduction to the concept “that we create our own reality”, Little did I realise then that later in life I would write a research book where I vindicated this (and the paranormal) by using quantum physics and a fully “solid” science approach i.e.replicated scientific experiments. Regarding esoteric literature, have you read any of the books: “Ra – The Law of One”, They are available free on the internet in PDF format and comprise channelled teachings of a 5th “density” entity race?

            God Bless,
            Bruce

          • Rainbow Shell

            Hi Bruce, could you elaborate about replication and a fully “solid” science approqach using quantum. I am actually writing about this topic, too. I’m fascinated about replication especially.

          • Rainbow Shell

            Not all of the 5th dimension is ascended to a God Mind in mind, body, soul. The real deal is there are no more ascending ones on earth. Period. And, the really real deal is there are only those helping deplete 10th d. The 5th dimension is for the ascending ones but they are gone home if they are love. My guy is only here to deplete and he is oh so tired. Phew 10th dimension is for depleting only, I hear. 2 d is done. Mirror in no life. Mirror life is done i hear, too.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I found your book online, but can find little in the way of reviews, and none from skeptics. If you could really prove the vast majority of QM physicists wrong, and verify the existence of the paranormal, you wouldn’t be on this blog. You would be collecting your Nobel Prize. I’m going to guess that you focus on the so-called “observer effect” as the primary, if not sole basis for the contention that all is consciousness – however this concept has been almost fully discarded by QM physicists, aside from a few die-hards.

            Is that the basis of your argument – the observer effect?

          • stardust

            Patrick, I don’t doubt that you likely won’t regard this as a legitimate post because of my name stardust, and yet the way you doubt all that you read, you might consider adopting a handle for yourself. I mean, you’re giving Patrick Gannon a bad name, like doubting thomas or something 🙂 Of course, there is a bit of truth in it, don’t you think. I do have a point, the observer effect is real and quantum mechanics proves it. As a salesman, what is the basis of your argument? Are you qualified to make a valid point on quantum physics and the truth of it? I am not trying to be disrespectul and I don’t doubt that salesmen can be brilliant. I am just saying perhaps you don’t know everything about it, or do you have experience in quantum experience?

          • Patrick Gannon

            I see an email notice from “Stardust” which I suppose is you; however I cannot find that post here. What’s wrong with using your own name? Wouldn’t an author want to get their name out there?

            I am certainly not a physicist, but I follow the science and have a layman’s understanding. I know that the “observer effect” was a concept that came out of the double slit experiment – however in order to “observe” or “measure” the path of a particle, you have to throw photons or something at it. The idea of of “observer effect” has fallen out of favor. My upstairs does not cease to exist when I’m not observing it. The moon does not cease to exist if nobody is looking at it.

            QM is one of the most abused scientific concepts ever. The New Age gurus like Chopra realized consciousness is hard, and QM is hard, so they assume they must be related. After some public humiliation, Chopra seems to have dropped this line. However as I understand it, QM which is all about probabilities, tells us the probability that there are god, soul, or consciousness forces that affect the particles in our natural world is just about as close to zero as you can get. If they existed, we would have found them by now. We know all the properties of particles, and their “states” or “degrees of freedom” do not include happy/sad states, or anything that could remotely be tied to consciousness. (Recent source – The Big Picture by Sean Carroll).

          • Patrick Gannon

            Found some skeptical reviews on The Sensuous Curmudgeon that are in line with my expectations. You aren’t a particle physicist specializing in QM – you were in the same business I’m in, it looks like – datacom/networking/telecom. Get your book peer-reviewed and published in a prominent scientific journal, and I’ll be very interested. Till then send me a copy via telepathy. If it shows up in my brain – I promise I’ll buy a hard copy!

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Patrick
            Thanks for your reply but I am not really interested at this stage in bothering with the negativity black hole of peer review. In any case I now realise (the hard way here), that any conversation such as we are having now is likely to be trashed by the moderator – as rightly it is off target. My fault sorry! Hope you like my book.
            God Bless,
            Bruce

          • Patrick Gannon

            Thanks for your response. As I said, I’m happy to receive the book via telepathy, but not convinced that it would be worth spending the money to buy a copy, given that what I know (admittedly limited) about QM, does not support your proposal, and you do not seem to be inclined to discuss it further. The scientific process has served mankind better than anything that ever came before it, and produced the greatest advancements imaginable, including the ability for us to communicate in this fashion. A lack of willingness to submit your work to that process, does not enhance credibility or interest, other than in those who already believe what you have to offer. You are writing for an audience that does not need to be convinced.

            I don’t think your problems posting are related to a moderator. I could be wrong, but if anyone on this site espouses views that challenge Neale Donald Walsch it is me, and I seldom have problems posting. Certainly if one reads this entire blog post, very little of it has anything to do with the original article. I offered up a solution in regards to Neale’s request for our thoughts regarding the Syria connection, but was consistently shot down. I have my own idea as to why that might be.

            I think the posting problem may be a platform issue, or (and I’m guessing here), that there is a “safe” list of people whose posts don’t need to be reviewed because they’ve been here a long time and consistently abided by decency or appropriate behavior in their posts. It seems to be newcomers who experience the most problems, from my perspective. I think perhaps the platform has to “learn” you.

            I’m blunt here – I think Neale is a great businessman. Whether he believes his own BS or is a scoundrel, I don’t know, but I do know the man is fair. He lets me post here. We’ve tangled a couple times. We disagree significantly – but he’s fair. He does not block posts. I have been blocked on other sites like AnswersInGenesis. When he says this, I think he’s being truthful. I think it’s a factor of the platform, but there could be a moderator involved – I don’t know. Just offering my two cents.

            If discussions about music preferences and all sorts of other personal and completely unrelated subject matter can be tolerated in a blog about whether energy can be applied in different ways, per Einstein, then anything can be discussed, and I would be very surprised if your problems posting have anything to do with your topic.

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Patrick,

            Thank you for your time an effort in such a full response.

            You say, “……given that what I know (admittedly limited) about QM, does not support your proposal, and you do not seem to be inclined to discuss it further”.

            Patrick, truly I would love to discuss this further with you and at length, but fairly it is out of topic and both of us should remain on course while we are here. A second point is that no doubt you are very busy like myself. If you genuinely are interested in my book then I feel you will be led to read it, if not that’s OK – hurrah for free will.

            I also feel I should say that I spent 15 years researching my book, seeking only truth, and my book is the result of my researches. I absolutely love science – as the most reliable method of seeking understanding of the world around us. But I was shocked at what I soon found following two years study of QM did not align with my materialistic paragym at that time. The sheer weight of overwhelming scientific evidence eventually (and with great reluctance) changed my belief system. The result was I published my book and gained a New Zealand National Book Prize. I cannot possibly cover arguments here, as that would be impossible since it took a fairly large book to do so. But they are all in my book. If you don’t choose to spend $15.00 for a Kindle version, that is your prerogative, If you wait for a year or so it will be up on my website for nothing. So it is your choice!

            God Bless and Love you,
            Bruce

          • Patrick Gannon

            Nothing (unfortunately) is off topic here. You have to give me reason to read your book. The reviews say it’s all based on hard science. I need a preview or sample. My reading list is long and I haven’t seen anything to justify the time.

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Patrick,

            You say: “Nothing (unfortunately) is off topic here.” Thank you for that I didn’t know, but my take on that is great! However I do see merit in trying for us to largely stay on topic – otherwise this will end up like FaceBook.

            You say: “You have to give me reason to read your book”, No! I don’t, it is entirely your choice – as you well know and if you think about it you will see that you would insist on this for yourself. I would never wish you to do anything you wouldn’t want to. In fact I said earlier you should only read it if you felt led to it. In passing I have had a number who have tracked me down at home and said that my book had changed their lives.

            God Bless,

            Bruce

          • Patrick Gannon

            Sorry for my choice of words, but you are certainly not going out of your way to lead me to read your book. There isn’t enough information in any of the reviews I’ve read or that you have said here to convince me that you have some kind of hard science to offer. If you did, I would expect less hostility to peer review, and more willingness to put out a few tantalizing tidbits to increase interest. Like I said before, you seem to me, to be interested in convincing people who are already convinced, and most of them don’t know a thing about physics.

            You keep harping on your award, but come on man – it’s from an organization that supports this woo stuff. You look like a really nice guy in your pics, so I feel a little bad about picking on you, but as the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you’ve got some, I don’t understand why you are so shy about talking about it, and I don’t understand why there isn’t a hint of anything meaningful in any of the reviews I’ve managed to find.

            If we are both still on this forum a year from now, when you put it on your website, let me know and perhaps I will read it then – or if you get any good reviews from (real) scientists, let me know and I’ll buy it.

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Patrick,

            You say some nice things about me and thank you for that. But honestly I don’t know why you are banging on about whether you should read my book or not. As I have said before, this is your prerogative. I have even said virtually you shouldn’t, unless you feel led to it. The key point is that you are denying wanting to read it, but my point is that unless you read it, you cannot see the arguments (made largely by others not myself, some of whom are Nobel prize winners and Professors of physics). You are creating the stalemate not I. You are also being very scornful (which is not at all pleasant to be on the receiving end, and completely unnecessary – would you like it?). You are also asking an impossibility and being completely unfair – that I place all my arguments here, when I have already done so in my book and that took some 350 pages and 15 years of intensive research and writing. Frankly, I have neither the interest or time available to accommodate you on this, nor do I really care tuppence that you should read my book. But why the scorn. What have I done to deserve this, that you should wish to humiliate and ridicule me in front of others?

            Re peer review aspects, I have already covered this. There are even books written against its nonsense. I can give you references to some if you wish, (Due to this nonsense approach, it has even been said that many new genuine breakthroughs in science have to await the death of those wedded to their false paragym. Think, Dawkins). Think about this too – as the process itself actually impedes progress and discoveries, since those completely wedded to their narrow belief system will naturally not support any others.

            Jokingly. If my book is wrong (but it isn’t), then my followers will believe a different reality from you. We all then can be joyous in our false belief doing no one harm, but just in a different probabilistic simulated reality from those that don’t (until we each transition to our true reality, then some of our group will be surprised, but not all one hopes, nor me, just as those many who have experienced NDE’s have observed).

            God Bless,

            Bruce

          • Patrick Gannon

            I haven’t asked you to place all of your arguments here – just a taste.

            I can’t agree with your thoughts on peer review. Typically this means repeating the experiment or research someone else has conducted and checking to see if you get the same results. Scientists are extremely competitive, and love nothing better than to disprove the common wisdom. Peer review is a mandatory part of the scientific process, or there can be no confidence in the results that it yields.

            You know that NDE’s can be induced by drugs such as ketamine, right?

          • stardust

            I hope your book does well. I know peer reviewers can be harsh, especially when you are dealing with the top of the line, so good luck on Amazon. Kindles are fun. I have a gazillion. It’s more ike a quintillian. I might publish on kindle myself.

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi stardust,

            Great to meet you and thank you for your kind words. Please do publish. Kindle publishing is a breeze, but not Paperback, as one seriously confronts reasonable selling cost, governed by postage/distribution cost issues which I am currently addressing.

            God Bless and Love you,
            Bruce.

          • stardust

            Thanks 🙂 I’ll remember that one )

          • stardust

            Love you too :))

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Thanks stardust.

            Just a quick comment on peer reviewers. This methodology is surely strangling science, since by definition one’s work is reviewed only by those who share the same beliefs and therefore knowing only what they know, are resistant to new ideas and therefore have “entrenched” beliefs. I was like that once and almost vomited at the concept of “guides”, “Angels” etc.
            Essentially since peer review invariably involves judgement by materialistic scientists only, anyone who espouses belief in non-material science e.g, God, the paranormal etc. will never have their work accepted in this nonsense system which refuses to even consider full investigation of the unknown!

            Blessings and love stardust. and thank you for your support!

            Bruce
            .

          • stardust

            it’s so true. The old way of publishing seems a bit out of date with quantum living 🙂 I guess one needs to experience the love of the high guy above or high Elohim. Instead of Elohim, I’m going to call it Eloher 🙂 there has got to be a god somewhere here who catches my drift 🙂 goodnight 🙂

          • Patrick Gannon

            Peer review is the heart and soul of science. We’d have never had the incredible advances we’ve experienced without it. Pardon me, but this sounds like a “whine.”

            Science had to work very hard to overcome the obstinacy and control of the Church, and because it’s method worked, while the faith & belief method did not, they get to set the rules now. Faith and belief have not produced results in any way approaching the success of the scientific method.

            If scientists were able to overcome the faith community, then you need to do the same, or acknowledge that there will never be a market for your materials beyond the small number of people who already believe it.

            There’s a line in a Moody Blues song that I really like… “It’s easier to try, that to prove it can’t be done. ” You appear to be focused on proving it (peer review) can’t be done. If this is a book of hard science, why did you even bother if you won’t submit for peer review? That doesn’t do a lot for confidence and credibility…

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            I have replied re peer review elsewhere. Surely you realise that peer review does not apply to books, only scientific papers. So your criticism is simply invalid and inappropriate.Why go out of your way to always be critical. Surely it is best to check out facts first then raise issues if necessary in a respectful, caring way aimed at helping rather than abusing without any evidence whatsoever.

            God Bless

            Bruce

          • Patrick Gannon

            Peer review does apply to many books, particularly historical books, but yes, scientific peer review normally happens in journals. Normally the process is for a scientist to submit a paper for peer review, and then write the book afterwards.

            I see nothing disrespectful in my post. I ask tough questions. I do not feel that I have personally insulted you, only questioned your motivations.

            I have only asked you for a tidbit or two of evidence to justify reading your book, and you have been very reluctant to comply. It’s highly unusual to have an author who doesn’t want to talk about his own book.

            I go out of my way to be critical here on this forum, because someone has to. It’s a Kumbaya site where everyone mostly agrees. I spice things up and get people talking. I’ve never seen Kumbaya make a difference outside its small circle. Neale says we only suffer or have our feelings hurt, etc. if we allow it to be so. I think this is largely correct, so I don’t worry too much about whether people get their panties in a wad from time to time – that’s on each of us to deal with. I back out when the personal insults start, or when the discussion is redirected from the topic to me, because it’s easier to criticize me than to talk about the topic.

          • stardust

            Hi speaking of postage costs. I just got a load up. My statue of my highly torqued Indian statue just arrived. First one had to be detonated from here to Tennessee Wow At any rate, any God here can take a peek Hi and my moccassin here Ha

          • stardust

            also John of God crystal casa here HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII phew

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Patrick,
            Thank you for your comment. I now realise (the hard way here), that any conversation such as we are having now is likely to be trashed by the moderator – as rightly it is off target. My fault sorry!
            (So quickly. a few brief comments on your queries) Mostly what you say is correct re the QM observer effect, but who is to say that this is not correct?The QM probability that God etc. is vanishingly small is widely incorrect. I am also not Stardust and his post has probably now been deleted by the moderator. I have used esoteric literature e.g. “Seth” to check validity. I’m pretty immune to attack/trolls as I didn’t do the experiments covered in my book, but brilliant scientists did (Bless them all). I had better leave it at that and get back on track.
            Hope you like my book.
            God Bless,
            Bruce

          • Patrick Gannon

            Yeah, sorry for the confusion. People here have been changing their names and deleting their posts and coming back as new people – there’s no telling who is who.

          • Patrick Gannon

            You have used esoteric literature such as the “Seth Material” to validate scientific research? Is that supposed to add credibility?

            I can see why you aren’t interested in peer review. LOL.

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Patrick,

            I didn’t say “credibility”, you did. But I would say (from the rooftops) that it helps “validation”, as esoteric literature is the wisdom from the ancients – who have preceded us. Of these, channelled deep trance mediumistic “receivings” such as Jane Robert’s “Seth”, when compared with results from independently replicated scientific experiments, is an interesting “suggestion” of validation – no less, no more!

            Neale’s teachings are based on “receivings” similar to Jane Roberts “Seth” teachings. Esoteric wisdom claims all types of receivings are valid, but must be tested (it says this even in the Bible, see John), but in detail within the channelled teachings of St Stephen (the first Christian martyr which took 8 years – (check out the book written by the Rev. Michael Cocks on the internet if you wish).

            Most of my book was written in the same way as the books of Neale. Neale is a master, I am merely a novice. My book even explains how to do this – it is the same method unconsciously used by savants, also many of the worlds greatest scientists, who have achieved science breakthroughs e.g. DNA, periodic table, Archimedes etc – as covered in my book.This is why I claim my National Literary Prize was won by my book, not me!

            Just a gentle rebuke, Patrick, scorn does you no favors, nor make you as lovable as you really are, nor resonate with I am sure is your absolutely beautiful soul. Sorry, while there is no right or wrong – as Neale says, there is certainly wrongdoing – as ‘Seth” teaches. So we all and I, must call this out wherever it occurs!

            You are scorning my competence, academic qualifications and book – without even having read the first chapter, let alone the whole book. I have a BE (Elect) in communication technology and a lifetime experience in this, plus IT National system design, two years study of QM (have you?) plus a lifelong passionate belief in science – which if you read my book, you would realise that this is the ideal academic and lifelong qualification for writing my book as a researcher putting together mainly the work of others. My contribution is largely, a mere three chapters of my own. I also am fortunate that I am much older than you, and frankly (and kindly) therefore have had longer to accumulate knowledge (as far as time is concerned, than you).

            Also I am privileged to serve a divine cat whom I’m sure knows more than both of us!

            Regarding knowledge, I would have thought that you would know that the first chapter of any recent book can be read there on Amazon for free. And my book is no exception. If you look you will find in just the first chapter, I deal with a case for God, demolish rigid Darwinism (not adaption to one’s environment), and at the end of just the first chapter raise the overpowering quantum case for our immortality. Nowhere do I say proof – as no scientist either, would. I emphatically state yet again to you here, that my book makes its case for others to judge, with “solid science” (defined in my case) as – independent replicated experimental science work done by “others” not “me”. In addition where this is impossible (e.g. a black hole) probability analysis is used – again done by “others”, not “me” (I am not that clever). My role is simply as a passionate science researcher for truth, seeking this for myself over a lifetime, shocked at what I have discovered, and now wanting to pass this onto others.

            Finally, I would have thought that you would know that peer review (thank God!) only applies to scientific research papers, not books. Science books like my own (as with others) posted on Amazon suffer (hurrah!) a much wider “review” – but available to the whole world – and continuously for as long as the book is still there. Anyone can post reviews on Amazon for any book, and do – even the most entrenched materialistic scientists – so there is a form of peer review there (since you are so committed to this appalling approach) for my book.

            Btw. Non-material reality is a useful generic name to cover the subatomic realm where the quantum physics reigns supreme, but not entirely – as it weakly effects larger masses as well. It is ignored by most mainstream scientists as being rather or completely irrelevant, yet non-material reality attributes e.g.entanglement, quantum tunnelling etc and consciousness itself actually create matter. Just thought you might like to know!

            God Bless,
            Bruce

          • stardust

            Actually, I am not interested, as an author, in getting my name out there on Neale’s blog. I prefer to do my own bookline. In fact, I might start my own publishing company 🙂

          • Patrick Gannon

            I am so confused. Who are you? Are you Bruce? Are you the Rainbow person who disappeared? Why can’t people use their real names?

          • stardust

            I am sorry you feel confused, Patrick, but I am not here for you to learn details about. Really, I have already spoken here several times about my id theft and if I were you, who doesn’t seem to have much of a following here, I would consider adopting a pseudonym as well. I am not Bruce and not Kirsten as some confused ones assumed.

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Patrick,

            Just a quick reply to avoid the dreaded “moderator”. You said: “The idea of of “observer effect” has fallen out of favor.” With some yes, with others no. Unsurprisingly those who assert alternatives (without proof) have a problem with their belief system as they cannot accept non-physical reality, so they contrive possibilities that negate that – regardless. The fact too is that great strides have been made recently in QM research such that previous scepticism against quantum brain processing (for example) has been resolved. e.g. it was thought impossible that quantum brain processing could occur in a warm wet human brain. All along though, it was rather obvious that this was false – as cognition fails at high temperatures, typically only usually encountered in deserts i.e. it has to get really hot before one cannot add one plus one.This new breakthrough has even led to an understanding that Darwinian evolution is mainly false concerning the evolution of any “new” species or survival of the fittest, or we emerged from the sea etc. etc – and that instead brain interactive quantum processing with one’s environment is instead responsible for adaptive changes. Poor old Darwin was only a pigeon breeder and certainly did not, nor could be expected to understand quantum physics. Even plants use quantum processing to manufacture chlorophyll (food from sunlight! Fantastic!), so surely our brains could be expected to be a little more advanced than a leaf!.Another critical discovery was that collapse of the wave function only applies to dynamic states – which means that solids such as the moon are still there when you look at them – well at least as long as everyone keeps on believing and expecting its existence (as we individually and collectively create our existence, continuously). Sort of makes one think that the big guy upstairs i.e. our God/creator did all this, not chance! And since we are all One, we all did this Patrick, you have just forgotten.

            Must go.

            Blessings and Love
            Bruce

          • Patrick Gannon

            Bruce, one might as easily say that those who assert alternatives to the known properties of our natural world (without proof) have a problem with their belief system as they cannot accept a physical reality, so they contrive possibilities that negate that.

            The problem you have is that on the physical side there are countless experiments and evidence to support the core theory of physics, and nothing objective or compelling to support a non-physical reality or universal consciousness. It seems to me that the person without the evidence is the one relying on belief. There is probably better evidence for a simulated reality, than for one comprised of consciousness.

            What does the potential that QM plays a role in how the brain works have to do with a universal consciousness – after all, we are working to develop quantum computing, so it stands to reason that Penrose-Hameroff might have interesting ideas about how the human brain works. In what way does that provide evidence for a pantheistic, universal consciousness? Everything in our natural world is emergent, and it’s become more and more apparent that self-aware consciousness is an emergent quality, not an underlying fabric of our world. If you can prove otherwise, global acclaim awaits you…

            I had read that you also refuted Darwinism – once again, there is a Nobel prize waiting for you, if you can provide compelling objective evidence that overturns the accepted science. One has to be careful with terms here, because Darwin as an early discoverer of evolution did not get everything right, but evolution as a field of study has been confirmed with overwhelming evidence to such an extent that it can be treated as fact,

            Our brains as a whole, of course, are more advanced than a leaf, but at the particle level, it’s all the same. The particle components are the same and they are all guided by the same processes. There are only so many “degrees of freedom” or states, like spin and electrical charge that a particle can present, and there are no states or degrees of freedom that support or require the presence of outside forces acting on these particles in order for them to be affected. Scientists, based on extensive research and experimentation at particle colliders and so forth, have confirmed beyond reasonable doubt that are no properties of particles that require an unknown force in order to explain them. If you’ve located such forces, the Nobel awaits. We know of particles and forces so small that we can barely capture them – like neutrinos – which flow through us by the billions without affecting our particles. If we can identify such minute forces, surely we’d have identified any magical forces or other particles that can actually affect our particles. What QM tells us, via it’s probabilistic mechanism, is that if such forces existed, we’d have found them by now. Paranormal events require that particles be affected, whether in the brain, or in body tissue you are trying to heal, etc. Countless experiments have ruled out these magical forces. Unfortunately James Randi has retired and withdrawn his million dollar reward for anyone who can prove what you say you’ve proven, though many, many people tried and failed.

            As I understand it, you don’t have any background in physics and quantum mechanics in particular. Is that right? You have no degrees in this field? Degrees certainly aren’t necessary in order to come up with exciting new discoveries, but they are an indication of the level of knowledge, research and study that an individual has dedicated to their subject.

            Have you conducted any experiments that provide you with objective evidence for your non-physical reality? Research from the Noetic Institute, for example produces results that are always “in the noise.” They are not compelling, they are well within the range of error. There have been some very interesting results from time to time, but nothing that would be considered “compelling” by the scientific process, else they would have advanced through the process of peer review. My assumption or guess, is that you are an amateur scientist and have done some study of the topic, focusing on things that support what you already believe, and then you combined this into a book and sell it to people who also, already believe. Your awards that I could find, are not from any scientific committees, but from groups that already buy into what you are selling.

            Your reluctance to submit your “proof” that Darwinism is flawed and that QM proves consciousness is universal, is unfortunate, because the rules have changed, and your work is moot, unless you are willing to go down this path. Centuries ago, the religious/spiritual types set the guidelines, but the scientific process as a result of a continuous flow of new discoveries and truths, has changed the rules. If you want to play, you have to play by their rules now. They had to work hard to find evidence, repeat experiments, make observations, verify predictions, and document their findings and submit them for others to attempt to tear down, in order to overcome the old world of faith and religiosity. This process has led to the most amazing period of advancement in human history, far surpassing anything the religious/spiritual school gave us, and in the process, it has debunked that faith school of practically all of its credibility. Science had to work hard to overcome the superstition of the past, but they own the field now, and your reluctance to play by their rules – your fear that your project will go into the ‘black hole” of peer review, pretty much makes your work an unfortunate waste of time – aside from potentially selling books to people who already believe what you have to say – like the folks on this forum, where you are (with my help!) marketing your book! There are folks here who will accept what you have to say without any need to read it, but these same folks would not take the time to read books by scientists who derived their conclusions from a scientific process repeatedly proven to work and produce valid results. Doing so creates cognitive conflict, making people very uncomfortable because their closely held beliefs are being challenged. To avoid that discomfort, one must avoid the data. I’ve read plenty on both sides, and your side is not compelling to me, although I once believed in it very much.

            No it does not look to me like the Big Guy created all this. The universe is essentially messy. A Creator who knew what he was doing, surely could have done a better job. What we see around us is exactly what we would expect as a result of natural selection and a physical reality.

            I’m still confused by people changing names – I guess you are not “Stardust”? I appreciate that you use your own name.

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Patrick,

            Again! You say “The problem you have ……………”. Patrick I am probably old enough and ugly enough to be your father. So I will admonish you rightly and say that, that is not a proper thing to say to others as it shows disrespect. Have I shown disrespect to you?

            I deny I have a problem that I wish you to solve for me, as I haven’t asked you to do so. I have mentioned to you repeatably that this is not the venue to discuss my book/beliefs. It is also impossible as you continually say that you will not read it, so how can you criticise/attack something you refuse to read, and how can I discuss it with you since you refuse to read it!. I have no further time to give you on this matter and will not respond probably to you or anyone here anymore, simply for two reasons, the first is that I think our task on this assignment by Neale is now complete, the other is that I am extremely unhappy with the dreaded “moderator” (the darkside, must look like Darth Vader! I joke, instead it is probably bad IT programming, which could be rectified. Better still removed from this site completely). I personally think it unacceptable that postings should be summarily cancelled without reason, worse; some postings remain for days (mine now 3-4 days (forever? possibly) without moderation being finalised. With all Neales self confessed wealth, you would think he could afford fixing it in some way. If not I will not return – ever. I posted yesterday something that disappeared three times – hopeless. So Patrick I am not not brassed off with you, I Love your passion, your industry and you help everyone with your challenges and I think you a great guy, truly!. However, it would be also helpful if you would be a little kinder and gentler to others, than you are currently. And refrain from being so confrontational/critical and in an attack mode without cause.

            Love You.

            God Bless

            Bruce

          • Patrick Gannon

            Bruce, I utterly reject your spanking, and suggest that you are trying to take me out of context, in an attempt to shame me The full sentence was: “The problem you have is that on the physical side there are countless experiments and evidence to support the core theory of physics, and nothing objective or compelling to support a non-physical reality or universal consciousness.” Clearly the “problem” I was speaking of was the scientific problem – not any personal problem on your part. You made no attempt to respond or counter, and the subject is definitely pertinent to Neale’s forum. It’s what almost everyone here wants – proof that their belief in Neale’s god is validated.

            No, you are not old enough to be my father. You will not admonish me as an elder – though you may do so as a peer. I am perhaps a decade behind you, and see this as a discussion of peers.

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Patrick,
            Thank you for your reply. You need to search using Google and you will find my book on Amazon as a Kindle version there and a Paperback elswhere with three 5 star outstanding reviews. It does not deserve a Nobel prize as I only quoted the brilliant experimental work done by scientists certainly not myself. I am a science researcher/author, not an experimenter. In your words I am a “diehard”. If you think about it you will understand why “this concept has been almost fully discarded by QM physicists” i.e. it does not align with their belief system. I cannot really say more as much as i would like to I now realise (the hard way here), that any conversation such as we are having now is likely to be trashed by the moderator – as rightly it is off target and we need to remain on track. My fault sorry!
            Hope you like my book. I am in the process of arranging a cheaper copy of the paperback version on Amazon, so maybe you should wait a few weeks. Otherwise you could source the Kindle version now there.
            God Bless,
            Bruce

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Bruce,

            Jane Roberts and Seth are what first just opened me up, cracking through my mind and into expanding consciousness. My copies were well-worn and much scribbled upon. They affirmed some of my own experiences and thoughts, and inspired me to look more deeply into everything.

            I have not read any of that series. I’ll have to look them up and see if I have enough space to download. My reading list keeps getting longer! But that’s a good thing. And I want to read yours first. Your description has intrigued me.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Wish that I could send a summary of Seth teachings. He is my number one for esoteric teachings up until now, when I came across CwG books. Neales’ books to me as now a science researcher in the whole field of esoteric literature, are completely valid using comparative analysis. His have the advantage of being wonderfully simple and containing bucketfuls of fundamental truths. Suggest you ease off Seth (there is plenty in my book), his books are quite a difficult read Instead i suggest you read everything Neale has to offer. He is the dinkum oil, believe me! (otherwise i wouldn’t be here with you all!

            Love and Blessings,
            Bruce

          • Kirsten

            Hi Annie,
            Re love. You know what I’ve found, in life, and fiction…is that when we ditch society, and anything that feels awkward, we get back on track. I realised this when studying the word awkward, so created a book character who loves awkwardness to teach the others. Analysing everything awkward…first or early dates, some conversation etc, I realised that in following society we are often blocking love and human nature. Whats wrong with people in the same room, all doing their own thing or in own thoughts. Society calls it awkward silence so people all kind of turn autistic making awkward conversation….Whats wrong with not talking? I have one scene where a pair have crushes, and end up alone on a word break, too awkward to talk alone. Someone comes out saying they look like dorks, asking the girl if the wants company since its awkward. He replies saying no thanks, Im just enjoying the awkward silence, pretending she isnt there and pretending im interested in watching the birds, of course breaking the ice making them call him a dork…breaking the awkwardness, being a typical boy making girls laugh. And I realised people are probably meant to end up with friend or neighbours, getting to know one another in groups, not stupid early dates alone. Ive decided awkwardness is hilarious, watching going against himan nature, and fighting what they truly want. When I encouraged my fiction characters to love and laugh at awkwardness it became hilarious, the honesty underneath is so different, and people really just wanted to live together after a few weeks, rather than societys ways. A very odd thing…something that was blocking love, amongst other things, another huge word uncovered, and such an innocent sounding one as well.
            Thats my love of words, analysing many words, and their impact on people, obviously every word and saying is something people in the past observed. Ive made it a mission to remove every ‘negative’ word from their lives, manually, and gosh it changes everything.
            I wish society could do this, so the factors behind those words are no longer in peoples lives, replaced with more positive ones.
            Like in here…negative people call this off topic, positive people call it a sit com, some call their lives chaos or stressful, positive people will call it hilarious and nuts. Same things, different words based on the negative or positive headspace in general.
            But I also think the banishment of ‘negative’ words, then means kindness etc become normal, so no need to talk about them at all…the end result, a world closer to your own personal life….quieter, when spoken words are unnecessary a lot of the time.

            Take care,
            K
            Xx

      • stardust

        Oy? or Ahoy? did you get that ship in a good way, of course.

        • stardust

          stardust here aka rainbow shell. I’m back to my good old days in the sky 🙂 like spirit in the sky. .what a good song Happy days are here again 🙂

      • stardust

        Is that ship an Oy or Ahoy 🙂

  • Jethro

    When we cannot find the right words, we can look to another to say what we wish we could have. Dr Martin Luther King Jr. spoke words that will will remain effective until the world realizes that violence is not effective for bringing peace.

    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,
    begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy.
    Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.
    Through violence you may murder the liar,
    but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth.
    Through violence you may murder the hater,
    but you do not murder hate.
    In fact, violence merely increases hate.
    So it goes.
    Returning violence for violence multiplies violence,
    adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.
    Darkness cannot drive out darkness:
    only light can do that.
    Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    Darkness cannot drive out darkness;
    only light can do that.
    Hate cannot drive out hate;
    only love can do that.
    Hate multiplies hate,
    violence multiplies violence,
    and toughness multiplies toughness
    in a descending spiral of destruction….
    The chain reaction of evil —
    hate begetting hate,
    wars producing more wars —
    must be broken,
    or we shall be plunged
    into the dark abyss of annihilation.

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    • Bruce Scott-hill

      Hi Jethro, Thank you for that. Until now I was not fortunate enough to have previously read the truths above spoken by Dr Martin Luther King Jr. What a gift you have given us all in repeating them. Surely when anyone reads these words/truths it is impossible to contradict them, as they resonate within one’s soul. Thank you again! Would that these words be shouted from the rooftops!
      God bless! Jethro

      • Jethro

        Thank you for your kind words Bruce, our world isn’t only full of evil doers. There are many wonderful human beings expressing many wonderful ideas all around us. Let’s help them be heard.
        God Bless! Bruce

        • Bruce Scott-hill

          Hi Jethro,

          I totally agree. While Neale says he was advised that “God only sends us Angels”, not all currently wish us well in this lifetime. So if we wish to join action for change, we must surely concentrate on uniting with those who are a positive force for good and with wonderful ideas to assist this transition.
          God bless! Bruce

          • Jethro

            Hi Bruce, I was reading a post by Sam above. It’s true what he explains about those who first sign in getting bumped. I recently had one Bumped as spam, I believe it was the copy and pasting I did to debate with Patrick. Kirsten is outside of america and she gets bumped a lot without threats or abnormal comments. Theories include also it’s a problem with discus. While I would enjoy Neale’s input on his blog a little more often, it’s not required. I do get disappointed to see the same topic up for two weeks at a time though.
            Give it all time, it’ll work itself out… God Bless
            Jethro

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Jethro,
            Thank you so much for those comments. Really!!! I put my heart and soul into a recent large comment, only to have it still in limbo awaiting consideration/moderation whatever!. I cannot see it is off target but full on target, so I am bewildered and close to giving up. Hope it all works out though as you say, otherwise I have wasted a lot of my time.

            God Bless you Jethro – you are inspirational!
            Bruce

          • Sam

            In my case a limbo-post never comes through. I re-post, and it works (knock on wood).

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Sam,
            Thanks I think I might try that. Thanks so much for the suggestion.
            God Bless, Bruce

          • stardust

            posts are slow posting and sometimes neale clears his blogs by doing a maintenance check I guess. I don’t know but they kind of post slowly

          • stardust

            somebody help me with my headphones. knock on wood. I’m listening to delbert mcclinton it’s Dick 50 Acquired Taste Album and these headphones are going in and out phew I don’t know man this laptop has just about had it. My electronics um go quantum real quick. It’s literally true it’s one week old and already the most torqued mutha frig nevermind. It’s all in my book 🙂 delbert mcclinton, purple rain and prince that and everything including the kitchen sink so is my dinner and breakfast and my every every and don’t even ask about my native american spirit gold box cigarettes, and black leather and lace all gone quantum literally lol

          • Jethro

            No time is ever wasted on good thoughts. There was a time I copied or typed in the office program on long winded comments so I could repost if lost. I believe every post is important, arguments have become old but if thought provoking, it’s necessary and everything provokes thought. Some comments waiting moderation can be clicked on for viewing by everyone. I check them all the time. Deep breath, a couple foul words and moving on… keep up the awesome posts Bruce!
            God bless…

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Jethro,

            Thanks for the tip re comments awaiting moderation – I didn’t know. Also I am indebted to your support and encouragement as I was truly starting to despair.

            Would that this website would explain this under a simple heading like “Rules”. I know there is “Notes”: and a paucity of information there, also “Notes”: doesn’t really stand out, and I initially overlooked this – as no doubt have many others. Rightly for us all, words and constraints are critical, as we all wish to comply, if only we knew them and the system.

            God Bless and Love,

            Bruce

          • stardust

            Are there “rules” and “notes” on this site. oh dear Neale with Notes and Rules that doesn’t sound like the Neale I know:) I didn’t know but maybe we shouldn’t be talking nonsense. .he has such a good sense of humor. I hope I didn’t break too many. I only said one cuss word and it really wasn’t a cuss word it was just this #$%^ and that was all. We did go on a little long about sitcom life and phewwee I’m sick of that talk. Had to change my name back to the original lol I am surprised he would have Rules and Notes. I mean I don’t post anything that isn’t extraordinarily extraordinary`usually 🙂 Goodnight all. I am off to read his book. Maybe we should read and talk about his new book again. Isn’t that what this article is all about. Take care all 🙂

    • Rainbow Shell

      So glad you posted this. I love him. I teach his letter from a birmingham jail. So many quotes that share truth with all love. Here is one to add to yours: It’s my all time favorite:

      “In a real sense, All Life is inter-related. All men are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be, and you can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. . .This is the inter-related structure of reality.”

      Here is another:

      “We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.”

      and of course:

      “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”

      Martin Luther King, Letter from a Birmingham Jail

      ta da and toodle loo to all. Have a goodnight all 🙂

      • Jethro

        Martin Luther King had plenty to say about peace. We can probably find many authors who gave messages of peace during times of unrest. We only need to search.
        Thanks for the additional texts Rainbow.

        • Rainbow Shell

          Those times of unrest are what Martin Luther King fought against. I would only emphasize MLK’s line that only “All Life is inter-related,” ie. there is a state of consciousness that is darkness visible,which we are witnessing on earth at the moment, and that this darkness is not a part of the whole inter-related heart, network of mutuality, single garment of destiny, unless all parts of the whole adding to the state of chaos and unrest gets their just reward. There was a darkness, in my view, that was divided from the utter being of light, the unspeakable brightess, who’s flaming sword was returned to Elohim in the middle of the night. Not everyone believes in darkness and light or Elohim, but I do, and in my view, that piece of the puzzle is a missing link that was placed at the right hand of Elohim in the middle of the night. I was told by my God, “you haven’t died enough for me, love.” But, that I am willing to do, though I feel as I have died a million and one already, but there is always a second that I am willing to die for to save the light from unrest and darkness visible. My sword, my word, is not a search. I handed that to Elohim. It’s his choice what he does with my gift to life. Love to alll here 🙂

          • Jethro

            I die a little every time I make a change, but I live little more, this has been most evident in the last ten years. before that, every time I died I died a little more. Dying can be adding to your death or creating a rebirth. We all experience it. Love is Life.

          • Rainbow Shell

            Hi Jethro 🙂 it was actually a very private conversation with my twin 🙂 he gets ballistic a little too much. When I say die, I am referring to overcoming death, as in Christ, but he meant he has been around a little too much. He is hopping, one hopping mutha friggin indian and I am not kidding. I put on a new dress, white lace, mini and my famous brown moccasins today. oh my god. He about called the fire department, literally. he’s a crazy nut and he cries to me in the middle of the night about his problems and I say what the heck do you want me to do? where do you want me to go? He just gets quiet and then I feel that damn heart and then I go ballistic. not really, usually I laugh and then I tell him have fun cuz I’m not in it and you’re heart ain’t in it if I’m not in it but damn you for buying me this new dress and telling me “you can’t wear it” lol God forbid if I even mention my new black leather oh my god not a midlife crisis but damn I don’t look bad people think I am 20 at any rate, I’m not even allowed to wear those ahem nuthing but nuthing he said black leather with ties rope strings whatever you call them up the sides all the way down and scroll down that leather and then oh my god in the rear end side phew nothing much but a nother string and in the front well another and he said “You can’t wear those except with me and I’m here in physicality coming to get you” and I am divorced so I’m hoping to meet my god this life and he is acting jealous and I said, “Look, are you really a god? jealous?” He said, “are you crazy. Im God. Noone gets my twine.” This is another personal post I will be deleting but he is acting jealous and I hate that so I’m really sure I better delete quick 🙂

          • Jethro

            I’m not sure what to say Rainbow, so I’m borrowing from Kirsten….Michelle, take care and stay well. Brother knows best. Stay in your physical body and allow no one or nothing near you that isn’t a physical person on Earth. Please. You know what can happen, your brother is doing his job, make it easy for him.

          • Rainbow Shell

            he is not a brother, love. It is God a twin heart like no other and he is now telling me that he is in physicality here for only me, so I’m out of here. Take care all 🙂

          • Jethro

            Take care.. stay well.

          • Rainbow Shell

            I’m around. Not going anywhere but Neale talks to his God, so do I. same way. I’ve spoken loudly on his messenger circle it happened to me just like it did to neale. My hand moved palpably and he wrote in a very cursive nice handwriting .my handwriting is like a doctor’s. actually i had an english teacher tell me “I give you a B next time do not handwrite. You piss your teacher off.” Wow it is bad so when my God and his energy moved through my hand and oh my god he actually did more than that. He actually drew an indian chief and I didn’t. Okay? that was a movement not mine. Words on pages so many thousands I cannot count move but my voice moves and I’m going on we’ve been together palpably for 20 years but can’t twin because he and I came to deplete old vipers sucking life force. He is a most desirable God and I dream him. He gets mad when I envision anything about me. Literally he is crazy jealous or something

          • Rainbow Shell

            btw, why do you and kirsten insist on assuming my twin is a brother and not in physicality? odd.He is telling me his mind is now clear of all fearbased entities. Energy is now clear. We speak as one now. Energy is quantum but it also depletes life forces. God is life force. All God Mind lives a breath here HIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii and I can go on with that breath Hu and that ought to do it. I’m gone baby gone.

          • Jethro

            That is odd isn’t it? I don’t know.

          • Rainbow Shell

            it’s alright 🙂 I just noticed it before coming from kirsten and it’s okay. I just don’t like lies. He is not a brother. He is actualy everything but in my highest heart he is my Twin and he calls it somehting so special now that he does not even refer to it as twin. It’s a highest True Twin, holiest Sacred Heart of God I Am. Hi and that’s my guy. and nobody gets him like that but me 🙂

          • Rainbow Shell

            also btw, neale speaks to a nonphysical entity not on earth, right? did you give him such a warning? I don’t get it.

          • Jethro

            You make a good point! I’m going to give that some thought. Might need to talk to Neale. Great point actually. Carry on.

          • Rainbow Shell

            talk to neale 🙂 he’s going to tell you I got a gazillion bucks it doesn’t matter what the frig anyone thinks. I hear yu guys chattering with Kirsten who writes through something and who else Spiritual Annie writes through something, okay? I am not here to speak as if I am wierd. You guys are weird but not admitting it. Neale says frig it. I make a mint on it, and so do i. Take care 🙂

          • Jethro

            Lol. Oh rainbow, I’m very weird! Very very weird. No doubt in my mind. Funny thing is I know I need the meds and won’t take them. Too groggy!!

  • Stephen mills

    Before Neale offers his own observation here we might all have all been annihilated by a thermo-nuclear war !!! I jest off course but the way North Korea’s leaders are talking and their continuing show of military hardware it reminds me of Hitler in the 30’s .

    Worrying times when you have as many power hungry males in reediness to unleash carnage across the planet .
    Don’t know what else to say really. The words in Jethro’s post below by Martin Luther King Jr are a timely reminder of a way of ending violence between nations .

    Thank you Jethro blessed are the peacemakers .

    • Jethro

      Thank you Stephen, I think it answers Neale’s question fairly well.

      “Can you bring an end to violence with violence? Can you bring an end to war with war? Can you bring an end to someone else’s anger with anger of your own?”

      Short answer No. Martin Luther King just seemed to say it better.

      • Sam

        “Can you bring an end to violence with violence? Can you bring an end to war with war? Can you bring an end to someone else’s anger with anger of your own?”

        True goals to reach for. But there are dilemmas. Like waging war against Nazis, and the need for violence, killing terrorists about to do terrible acts. To free ourselves from such actions, I think must be a gradual process, all the time pushing the limits for more decency, in the love and understanding for the “enemy”.

        • Jethro

          The whole point is to spread the message in hopes that “all” will get it and enjoy the idea of peace, If we keep it a secret from the Nazi bunch what good is it. We also want the terrorist to know and understand, the wife beaters, bullies, and the judgmental extremists. Anyone living in such fear that they must be violent to feel protected. Let’s try to recognize that any human with any label is still a human, just a human with the same wants and needs as every other human… Dilemmas, human, almost the same word. Love and understanding for the “enemy”, great start!!

          • Sam

            “The whole point is to spread the message in hopes that “all” will get it and enjoy the idea of peace,”

            Yes, it does strike a chord, and why we still remember and respond to it in a good way. Maybe those words should be placed somewhere, by law, to be seen every day. Somewhat like warnings on cigarette packs. Maybe have them engraved on all guns e.g.?

          • stardust

            what a great point!

          • Jethro

            A message for everyone to see daily, awesome idea. But, I would hope the message would be engraved in thoughts rather than engraving any weapons. Too many sticks and rocks to engrave. Hands kill too, Ouch!!!

          • Sam

            “But, I would hope the message would be engraved in thoughts rather than engraving any weapons.”

            If they were engraved in thoughts, no reminder was needed, of course. If they were engraved in thoughts, there be peace all over already.

            “Too many sticks and rocks to engrave. Hands kill too, Ouch!!!”

            Many things are not good for us, like sugar, but only tobacco has a warning. Guns are likewise a major killer. A law regarding all new guns having a certain inscription, couldn’t be more easy.

          • Jethro

            Your correct Sam, my point is no weapon nor food product either, is dangerous until the person in control of it decides how to use it and how much. I was a drunk for several years, the alcohol wasn’t killing me, I was using it to kill myself. A gun has never killed anyone, it was the person using it. Otherwise there would be guns on death row, not humans.

          • Sam

            And you’re correct too. The problem is that we forget to act smart, and with a heart.

          • Jethro

            I gave it a little thought, any time I can remember not being kind, I was angry and/or simply chose to not care. I didn’t forget anything for sure. Maybe there is something to remind us even in anger that caring should always prevail, or maybe we are all too human to consider there is a good answer for resolving all of the insane actions happening all around us. Is the conversation here useless maybe?

          • Sam

            “I gave it a little thought, any time I can remember not being kind, I was angry and/or simply chose to not care. I didn’t forget anything for sure.”

            So there was no remorse — still to this day?
            Remorse is the same thing as not acting smart/heart. And we learned something. Still, we often do it again, and repeatedly. We forgot what we learned already. We forgot that we actually know way better than to act like this. Sometimes a reminder is all it takes, preventing the s* hitting the fan.

          • Jethro

            True, but when I realized I could change things I began to, and am still making changes as I go. For years I accepted that it was how I was and change was not an option. So maybe a good message for awareness is, not only “can” we change for the better, it’s often necessary if we notice we should.

          • Sam

            It’s funny how we can decide to not change, when it’s absolutely impossible not to 🙂

          • Jethro

            Totally funny!

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Sam,

            Absolutely love your idea to spread the message, using our old standby we (mankind) are so good at – namely “words”. Sadly I guess we are not so great with telepathy – as least I’m not, but our cat is. So words, “everywhere we can think of using them” – (cigarette packets are great) but why not use electronic media too. One idea I’ve been toying with is why don’t we use some of these slogans on FaceBook. But also there is an immediate potential with a host of spiritual internet websites. Church ones too. I am currently compiling a list. Some I am using already to write articles demonstrating how science and in many cases esoteric literature e.g., “receivings” such as Neales CwG books does support – Oneness, God, Love and all the things we stand for. Ours is a universal message, and likely to be fully acceptable to such websites. So surely this is a good area to get Neales’ views first and then for all of us to press ahead as we individually can.

            If Neale likes this idea, perhaps he can give us guidelines, so none of us (including myself) breach his leadership and thoughts.

            What do we think about this???? Please?? I am privileged to be an advisor on a large spiritual/largely anglican church website and would love to start right away!

            God Bless and Love to you Sam, and y’all,

            Bruce

          • Sam

            Are you suggesting a joint operation, Bruce? You and me, armed to the teeth, fearlessly walking into enemy territory, to kick some ass and give them hell — oops, I mean a peace of heaven? 🙂

            I wish I had the energy, and the belief that I could make much difference being merely a foot soldier. My goals are a little higher, at least for the moment, specifically to see if I can make a difference with a book of my own. Explaining everything in plain words, and not many of them, easy to understand for all. Also, having a good rhythm, tickle your spine a little, along with some major aha-moments as well.

            I would need some assistance, though, with the English, and which questions to raise (questions doesn’t come easy to me, only the answers). So, that would be my counteroffer, Bruce, for any chance of a joint operation 🙂

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Sam,
            I was afraid someone would never ask, but you did. Thank you! Yep I’m a starter – just as you say:

            I was born in Australia, as were my parents and their parents before them. When my grandfathers fought in World War II, I suspect they did so at least partially in defence of a clearly understood set of Australian values (“PM signals tough new regime on citizenship”, April 20). These were the same values I was taught at home and at school.

            My memory of these values is that they would not have permitted locking children in detention centres. They did not extend to ruining our environment for the sake of short-term financial gain. They did not protect the rich and powerful while preying on the weak and vulnerable. I’m glad I won’t be required to sit a test on Australian values, because I no longer know what they are.

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Sam,

            I was afraid someone would never ask, but you did. Thank you! Yep I’m a starter – just as you say here, Sam:

            “Are you suggesting a joint operation, Bruce? You and me, armed to the teeth, fearlessly walking into enemy territory, to kick some ass and give them hell — oops, I mean a piece of heaven? 🙂

            Absolutely Sam, I really feel that one should be “armed to the teeth” but with the greatest weapons of all, namely unconditional love for all, but with kid gloves on so as not to hurt anyone. C’mon though Sam the offer as a “foot soldier” is what is needed, one person such as yourself is great, but as many foot soldiers as can be mustered would be better – but overwhelming numbers would be ideal. We all know that too many generals with few foot soldiers, will never win a battle, nor managers in commerce and few doers.

            No swords either, and ploughshares are a bit passé in today’s world. Instead of ploughshares though we need words. Slogans have limited use, articles in Newspapers or on websites are better. But the best of all are surely, “Books” – which is what you are offering. Wow!

            I can’t help but feel a wonderful example of this with Jesus. In the Bible that followed his teachings. As itt changed the world for the better. Prior to his teachings, the world comprised mostly savages, so we have come a long way. Notably Jesus was also a foot soldier like you, and fearless. There are many other examples of the power of words such as the great words we have read in this conversation written by Martin Luther King.

            More seriously, I would be honoured to help you Sam in any way I can for you to write your book. If you can sort out some way we could contact each other offline via e-mail without upsetting the moderator, just say the word and I am there.
            There was a good example this morning in the Sydney Morning Herald of how letters to the editor in major world newspapers could change governments. See below. This was the lead letter. Many such letters could I am sure change Governments. But I am sure an army of letter writers and inspired Newspaper columnists could change even the world by “calling out” wrongdoing and espousing the concept that: “All differences can be overcome by negotiations and by treating all completely fairly – as we are all One”. Aha! Another triad – won’t Neale be pleased.

            God Bless and Love you Sam – I look forward to hearing from you re your book

            The following is the Sydney Morning Herald Newspapers’ lead letter this morning.
            ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

            “I was born in Australia, as were my parents and their parents before them. When my grandfathers fought in World War II, I suspect they did so at least partially in defence of a clearly understood set of Australian values (“PM signals tough new regime on citizenship”, April 20). These were the same values I was taught at home and at school.”
            “My memory of these values is that they would not have permitted locking children in detention centres. They did not extend to ruining our environment for the sake of short-term financial gain. They did not protect the rich and powerful while preying on the weak and vulnerable. I’m glad I won’t be required to sit a test on Australian values, because I no longer know what they are.”

          • Sam

            Here is my mail address, Bruce: samnoha@mail.com

            And we take it from there 🙂

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Thanks Sam I’ll e-mail you soon. Love to help wherever I can!

            God bless,

            Bruce

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Sam,

            I was afraid someone would never ask, but you did. Thank you! Yep I’m a starter – just as you say here, Sam:
            “Are you suggesting a joint operation, Bruce? You and me, armed to the teeth, fearlessly walking into enemy territory, to kick some ass and give them hell — oops, I mean a piece of heaven? 🙂
            Absolutely Sam, I really feel that one should be “armed to the teeth” but with the greatest weapons of all, namely unconditional love for all, but with kid gloves on so as not to hurt anyone. C’mon though Sam the offer as a “foot soldier” is what is needed, one person such as yourself is great, but as many foot soldiers as can be mustered would be better – but overwhelming numbers would be ideal. We all know that too many generals with few foot soldiers, will never win a battle, nor managers in commerce and few doers.
            No swords either, and ploughshares are a bit passé in today’s world. Instead of ploughshares though we need words. Slogans have limited use, articles in Newspapers or on websites are better. But the best of all are surely, “Books” – which is what you are offering. Wow!
            I can’t help but feel a wonderful example of this with Jesus. In the Bible that followed his teachings. As itt changed the world for the better. Prior to his teachings, the world comprised mostly savages, so we have come a long way. Notably Jesus was also a foot soldier like you, and fearless. There are many other examples of the power of words such as the great words we have read in this conversation written by Martin Luther King.
            More seriously, I would be honoured to help you Sam in any way I can for you to write your book. If you can sort out some way we could contact each other offline via e-mail without upsetting the moderator, just say the word and I am there.
            There was a good example this morning in the Sydney Morning Herald of how letters to the editor in major world newspapers could change governments. See below. This was the lead letter. Many such letters could I am sure change Governments. But I am sure an army of letter writers and inspired Newspaper columnists could change even the world by “calling out” wrongdoing and espousing the concept that: “All differences can be overcome by negotiations and by treating all completely fairly – as we are all One”. Aha! Another triad – won’t Neale be pleased.

            God Bless and Love you Sam – I look forward to hearing from you re your book

            The following is the Sydney Morning Herald Newspapers’ lead letter this morning.
            ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

            “I was born in Australia, as were my parents and their parents before them. When my grandfathers fought in World War II, I suspect they did so at least partially in defence of a clearly understood set of Australian values (“PM signals tough new regime on citizenship”, April 20). These were the same values I was taught at home and at school.”

            “My memory of these values is that they would not have permitted locking children in detention centres. They did not extend to ruining our environment for the sake of short-term financial gain. They did not protect the rich and powerful while preying on the weak and vulnerable. I’m glad I won’t be required to sit a test on Australian values, because I no longer know what they are.”

          • stardust

            This is a very complex question for anyone here. You mention “receivings” and “Oneness.” Okay many speak of oneness on all these church, new age guru sites and others but lets just define it. A true definition is hard to come by. Does anyone have a true definition in their book? Okay, class. I’m playing teacher lol How do you define Oneness. Let that be the question of the day. 🙂

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi stardust,
            I wrote a full reply to you on this, about an hour ago, but it was trashed by the dreaded moderator/algorithms, sorry, I am determined to get it to you somehow. I’ve repeated it up the top, so will see if it stays there or disappears again falsely labelled as “spam” .
            Love and kindness to you stardust,
            God Bless
            Bruce

          • stardust

            Bruce, Myne was trashed too. I believe we are getting into some deep fractals and wow my awareness did a rapidtime expansion or is it birth pain contraction I don’t know but I am a new baby and fractals are amazing oh so amazing. I am a mathematician not just an English teacher and the sequence is updone always so I am at a loss as to why the most interesting expansive comments go into some fractal space of the wherever they go. Thanks for responding. Your post helped crack my hardest hit shell in all love 🙂

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Fantastic Jethro – as usual!

            If everyone called out “Bad Behavior” (Your words), alternatively – “wrong doing” (“Seth’s words”) – what a better world it would be. I am joyous when I see this happening and a lot of columnists are doing this now. As long as it is done kindly, and lovingly and with arguments to change behaviour for the better for all, (God! I pray that this may increase to a frenzy). Yet those who “call it out” – need no weapons, nor would hurt the innocent.

            “Imagine” a world where motorbike gangs were “called out” instantly for their bad behaviour, by “all” others – they would soon feel silly, and desist – as this is what they would most fear, as it is the opposite of what they want, namely – to be publically shamed continuously. Instead, their main purpose is to create fear in others, and parasitically enslave others to serve them and their parasitic lifestyle. “Imagine”, a world where anyone who even dared to think of war, were “called out for it”, and so on. So easy to improve the world for us all!. One could go on, an on, with these imagines –

            and so we “all” should.

            Like ‘Imagine”……?? “Imagine” ……?? Anyone wish to take this up here, and ‘Imagine” —- ( – thanks to John Lennon!).

            And Patrick I really am going – it is now lunchtime for me, and I was reviewing all posts before leaving – as i promised.

            Keep going Jethro and Spiritual_Annie – you are simply magificent!!!! you are both inspiring and now hitting your straps – over and over!!.

            God bless, Love you forever,

            Bruce

    • Of course the first thing in CwG book 4 that is answered about HEB’s is, there is absolutely no violence.

      Visualize, be & promote peace.

      I can see the military making a shift from war to helping heal the environment. The Trump pResidency is so much like a Twilight Zone episode that I’m hoping the craziness turns to Trump’s Spiritual Epiphany and he has a awakening.

      That sounds crazy of course & that’s why it may be possible, because we are living not in interesting times, but crazy times. Of all things that are possible, I’d entertain that possibility.

      • Jethro

        Nothing is crazy if it’s possible. It’s possible yet thought to be unlikely. Go with it, hope that love is the deciding factor.

    • Bruce Scott-hill

      Hi Stephen,

      Fully agree and thanks for the hurry up as perhaps it is just as well as we haven’t yet heard from Neale as we are still to address his last two questions i.e. “What is the spiritual solution to the world’s dilemmas? Is there even a good one to be considered? This is a question that I am asked a lot these days. It is a question I ask myself a lot. And that brings me back to Einstein. Was he right?
      I’d like to put the question you to, here — and the specific issue of what, if any, an effective response, spiritual or otherwise, might be to the use of chemical weapons in Syria — before I offer my own observation”.

      Maybe we have already got answers to most of the preceding questions posed by Neale within Jethros gift to us all of Martin Luther King Jrs. messages. Stephen, Marko, Jethro and Sam all choose Martin Luther King Jrs. last quote (provided by Jethro) as the best solution and so do I, i.e. this quote:

      “Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that”.

      So, we have a consensus of “love it is” Any other solutions on analysis, surely fall short of achieving a permanent solution to mitigate against any threat of (say) a chemical attack, or any such attack involving a weapon of mass destruction such as atomic, chemical or biological. A peace treaty is inadequate since all have a finite time of duration. What we need is one which will last forever! Only the concept of spreading the same unifying message of love by as many as we can muster such as:
      “Love God, Love oneself and Love one another – for we are all One”.

      This or a similar message to this) surely resonates with all souls, all peoples and all religions.

      As regards whether Einstein was right – Absolutely, as it is obvious that Love – which is God, and all that exists, far outweighs any energy of hate!

      Finally, we have had an enjoyable game of developing slogans – which could be used as tools we all could use to spread our message as far and as wide as we can. And to shout from the rooftops. These are a list of perhaps the best so far (in their order of appearance in the conversations),

      “Visualize, be and promote peace”.

      “Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly”.

      “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”

      “All parts of the whole adding to the state of chaos and unrest gets their just reward”.

      “We need to put all countries and people first, not just America and Americans.”

      “Equality for All”

      “Nurture others, nurture nature, and you nurture yourself.”

      “Love internally, love externally, love exponentially”

      “When peace is internal, peace is eternal”… “Love everything as if it is God”

      “All is One”

      “Show all creatures kindness, plus all life, and you will experience kindness yourself”

      “Love unconditionally and you will be unconditionally loved”

      “Compassion is Love in Action.”

      Hopefully this will collectively meet Neales’ multiple conversational assignments for us. Please add to this as you see fit and the slogans.

      I am interested in where this is going. I mean we have a mission and slogans, but the next step is that we cannot stop, since we feel we need to spread the word, everywhere in whatever method is best in order to achieve a tipping point, an early transition, and everlasting peace and joy for all.

      In this it would be nice to have Neales input and suggestions to move forward with an evolutionary change.

      Please what do you others think?

      God Bless to you all,
      Bruce Scott-Hill

      • Jethro

        “What is the spiritual solution to the world’s dilemmas? Is there even a good one to be considered?” Love. It’s love. Forgiveness and love, but love implies forgiveness. Love is the answer and the only answer.
        Fear is war, Love is not war. We wish for not war and Love can be the only answer.

        Thank you Bruce. Very impressive post, VERY impressive.
        God Bless

        • Bruce Scott-hill

          Hi Jethro,

          Thank you too Jethro for your kind words to me and God Bless.

          I Love that you say: “Fear is war, Love is not war. We wish for not war and Love can be the only answer.”

          God Bless,

          Bruce Scott-Hill

          • Kirsten

            Hi Bruce,
            I accidently replied to Sam when he was pasting a post of yours. Read above re posts removed or awaiting moderation.
            Take care,
            K

    • Jethro

      Your post disappeared….

      Stephen Mills

      So the problem we have is the blind leading us in a direction we say we do not want to go. The overall desire I believe is peace as you have stated above Jethro .
      The majority in most countries do not want war but many governments take us to war using false pretences and hidden agendas !
      So the way I see it we have given our power away ….we have exchanged it for something we want more than anything ? What can that be ?
      Safety , Security , Survival . We have , well some of us traded our power and responsibility so the actions of a few in positions of power can set the cultural agenda . You might not agree with this analysis but apathy and turning a blind eye to suffering is the norm in our world .We have given our power away its time to take it back.
      Give me liberty or give me death was a statement that the founding fathers made to rid themselves from the shackles of the British monarchy .They pledged their sacred honour to this .Against such courage ,oppressors have no power.
      So we have to reclaim our inherent power back the power that is ours to create what we want and not be told to how to live and what to do like servants to a destructive elitist few . We have to stop denying that we have the power and start believing we are the power.
      What is this power well its the power of the origin-all …Original Power that is divine.The world is been created by the beliefs of the humans who are in charge of our planet that is the main problemo ,not the individual beliefs expressed by the cool folks here.

      Jethro: Yes Stephen, I do agree.

  • Sam

    Bruce Scott-hill wrote:
    “I admit I am new to all this. But I’m sorry, we seem to have a rather zealous and unfair moderator here – where one waits on occasions forever for approval, and some postings are deleted without question and without explanation. If there are rules we surely deserve to know what they are. Otherwise this is unfair – as one person said in this conversation below (paraphrasing): “Injustice effects the justice of all – as we are all One”, In one conversation it was suggested “that external links” are unacceptable. Maybe so, but how do we know? Even in the most primitive society there are rules so that everyone knows.
    This is unfair and not what one should expect of CWG – it is a basic tenet of civilisation.
    And no, I am not “venting” – re Neale’s started his initial Conversations with God, but upset that myself and others should be treated like this. Sure doesn’t seem that our moderator is an advanced entity – from mine, or any point of view. We deserve better than this, and the rules – if there are any – actually explained so we can respect them and the moderator. Alternatively if there are none, then tell us all!
    I guess this will be deleted also – in which case I probably will leave never to return, as I sure can spend my time better trying to help others elsewhere, which would be a shame as i would like and am motivated to help. Long ago I promised God I would serve others and this is what I do and what i am here for. And no, I am not angry, but extremely saddened – believe me!”

    This happened to me as well, as first starting out here. Seems to me there is a spam filter calibrating “newborns”, making mistakes, before things settles down working. At least for me. When I occasionally get a post turned down (just once lately), all I need is to post it again.

    • stardust

      Hi Sam, I posted the line about injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere, and sorry but I was thinking of leaving and then came back but changed my handle back to my original Stardust. No. I know Rainbow Shell is kinda cool, too, but truthfully Michelle works, too, and I prefer to be incognito because of id theft, literally, so Neale is not actually moderating or I mean deleting my posts or anything. Fact is, I’m tired of blogging and getting ready to read his book on my kindle. I love that book, and can’t wait. I might listen to it on audible. Have a goodnight 🙂

  • Jethro

    I was reading a bit this morning and cut this from an article, I think it is worth sharing here. Concerning the state of our world affairs as they have been reported, how should we choose to think about it? Mind and body or mind an soul? I believe this has also been addressed in a CWG.

    “Worldly freedom is the power to change one’s experience. Spiritual freedom is the complementary power to change one’s relationship to it.
    So we must be clear about what we want. Do I want to have my way or protect myself in what I believe is the reality of this situation, or will I surrender to the unknown of what is? Is it enough to receive what is happening, observe it, be curious about it? Either I am rejecting this experience and conniving to get a different one, or I accept to meet this squarely as experience. A choice must be made between the desire for a different reality– which implies judgment, agitation, emotional charge, struggle, drama– and the desire for peace, which implies relaxing in the acceptance of what is. To accept experience, however, does not necessarily mean to accept the conditions in the world that give rise to it. It is not a formula for passivity. It simply means we are not compelled by our conditioning, but are free to act rather than merely react. It means we are not possessed or duped by the mind, but are at liberty to use it as an instrument for examining and acting, when appropriate, upon the world.” – Author Unknown

    • Patrick Gannon

      I know where this came from. It is a very short excerpt from a very long and detailed article that I can’t comment on in any detail until I can read enough to put this tiny excerpt in proper context and perspective. It appears to be a research article discussing what we know about consciousness and discusses it in excruciating detail. It looks fascinating, and when I catch up with work, I’m going to read it. It does not appear, based on my very quick review, to promote the concept of universal consciousness, but appears, again on a very quick review, to be based on emergence of consciousness from the brain.

      The passage that immediately precedes the section quoted above is pertinent, I think, and reads as follows:

      ” Spiritual freedom may be cultivated first by understanding clearly what it is. Worldly freedom is freedom of the ego. Spiritual liberation is freedom from the ego– that is, from identification with the body-mind and its needs. It is not a carte blanche (… la New Age) to pursue one’s desires– nor indulge one’s fears– based on more sophisticated perceptions of what is real and desirable or dangerous. On the contrary, it is liberation from the appetites and fears of the conditioned body-mind which fuel such perceptions. Interest in it does not usually arise until there has been some disillusionment with images and formulas for success– even spiritual success– and the cycle of desire/action/result/desire. There must be some realization that “needs” are inherently insatiable, action inherently limited, and results inherently disappointing. The longing for spiritual freedom does not often arise before there has been a loss of confidence in the strength of one’s perceptions and ideas of what is reality and where one is going within it. We do not usually question life until it fails us. Worldly freedom is the power to change one’s ….. ” pick up quote from post above.

      (THE RISE AND FALL OF REALITY(c) by Dan J. Bruiger)

      • Jethro

        The link will not post, but yes. Your in the right spot. I enjoyed the part I shared.

        • Jethro

          Anybody interested in reading the entire article can copy a few sentences and post in the search bar. ….27. The Concept of Spiritual Freedom is at the top of the page

        • Patrick Gannon

          Why then, did you say “Author Unknown”?

          • Jethro

            The page I was reading had no signature. It popped up during a search and I gave it a quick look and liked what I read and shared it. I did not really care who the author was anyway. I only even printed unknown author to let everyone know I was not the author. I copied a couple sentences from your post and searched to confirm that you were correct… You were correct. I wouldn’t know Dan J. Bruiger from Dan Smith.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Just wondered. It seemed odd. Generally “Author Unknown” implies that the author is unknown to everyone, not just you, so it struck me as odd. That’s all.

            Was the section that preceded it, that I added, included in the piece you quoted? I found this part especially poignant:

            “The longing for spiritual freedom does not often arise before there has been a loss of confidence in the strength of one’s perceptions and ideas of what is reality and where one is going within it. We do not usually question life until it fails us.”

            I think this is applicable to the idea that we start a global discussion about religion, that I have been promoting. Life has certainly failed them in Syria and many other places, and it is time to question ideas of what is reality and where one is going within it. Right now, the reality is people killing each other over mythical, violent Abrahamic gods for whom no foundation remains.

            I also like the part, “It means we are not possessed or duped by the mind, but are at liberty to use it as an instrument for examining and acting, when appropriate, upon the world.”

            I would submit that the time is appropriate to act on one of, if not the, most critical problem facing the middle east – the Abrahamic religions.

          • Jethro

            As far as the entire article goes, It was not my aim to promote anything or anyone. As I stated I merely posted something I liked without it being too lengthy and While I know now, the authors last name appeared in the search bar, I was not aware at the time. Nor was there a name at the base of the page where I looked. I guess I should of said, “I don’t care who the author is but can find out if really important to someone, it’s not important to me, I just like the part I posted”. Then again it was easier to note “author unknown” as I didn’t know the authors name, I was not the author, nor did I realize it would be an issue.

            You pasted the portion preceding the part I posted, but I had not included it in my post. If you are still trying to confirm that we posted from the same article, Yes. I confirmed it before responding the first time.

            I feel comfortable saying that religions when translated by those with power and agendas beyond their religion, begin using their religion to manipulate people into promoting their agenda through religion, they have most certainly created a “religious problem”. Kill Joe, God said so…. God says “Thall shall not kill”… There’s an obvious problem.

            I posted the listed reasons for the start of the Syrian war which sounded a lot like a civil war, not a holy war. Holy wars have been the topic in that area for as long as humans have been in the area. So the religious problem cannot be ignored. Ireland is still recovering from a war that was exclusively christian.
            But your question is what would happen if the founders of Abrahamic religions would just admit it was all made up.

            Could humans decide that there is nothing more to fight about without the confusing Abrahamic religions in place? What is your thought Patrick? How will it solve all the fighting? I just can’t see it as a cure all, a start maybe, but not a cure all.

          • Patrick Gannon

            No, I wasn’t trying to confirm that we pasted from the same article – I was curious if you had read the portion that preceded what you posted and what your thoughts were on it.

            I wasn’t looking for a cure-all with my proposal – only a way to kickstart the discussion. Religion isn’t the sole problem on our planet, but it’s a huge one, and we keep sweeping it under the carpet.

          • Jethro

            “The longing for spiritual freedom does not often arise before there has been a loss of confidence in the strength of one’s perceptions and ideas of what is reality and where one is going within it. We do not usually question life until it fails us.”

            Actually, I almost included it with the post, but it looked longer than it was.

            This is an important statement of course and only available to those in countries with the freedom to decide. How many of the poorest visions of anything have occurred through a need to redefine original beliefs to fit ones life rather than except it as proof of “no proof”? or in my case, having been forced to adapt to parental beliefs in which case I felt obligated to except some form of God, defined best as you say, the non-existing spirit in the sky. Forced to except it even though it made no sense in too many cases.
            Religious beliefs can be the strongest beliefs any of us will ever have. When those beliefs begin to crumble, the entire outlook on life begins to unravel and vice versa. In the statement above, spiritual freedom is the adopted cry of people who do not wish to adhere to the strict confines required to make it to heaven in organized religions but require themselves to hold onto something still. It’s easy to believe and it’s more than just likely, something went wrong. Some will even be agnostic or atheist depending on the depth of what may have been a negative life altering event.

            What is your thought on this question… Could humans decide that there is nothing more to fight about without the confusing Abrahamic religions in place?

          • Patrick Gannon

            Of course not. There will always be things to fight about, until we evolve or somehow utilize technology to change our basic nature through gene manipulation. Fighting is part of survival, and survivor pass their genes along and evolve, so struggle written into our code.

            However doesn’t it make more sense to fight over water, food, territory or other resources than to kill each other over imaginary beings that live in the sky? Wouldn’t removing those imaginary beings cut down on the killing? Currently those imaginary beings provide the basis for the political system as well as religious systems in Mid-East countries, as the two are tied together, one and the same. That needs to be separated as it is in the west, if they are to advance their societies. They can become tradition and cultural myths that continue to provide social advantages, but it’s time for the Abrahamic gods to start looking for the door.

          • Jethro

            It doesn’t make sense to fight over “any” imaginary problem. Including imaginary beings in the sky. We have no shortage of any product needed for survival to sustain every human being on earth even now with the population being so many. Food, clothing, shelter, and life partners most certainly life partners are easy to have anywhere in the world. While religions are a problem, I see the biggest problem being greed.
            I can see the benefits of removing God as you wish from the face of the earth. Although I prefer to say remove some of the ideas people have about God. People should be allowed to believe however they wish and given the freedom to live as they wish without laws that take away. Unless of course we have to deal with those who wish to bring harm to another.

            I removed most of my long winded rant… In the name of making life better we have put a restriction on everything which has brought us to this point. Laws for safety, laws for taxes, laws for building, laws for how to say things, laws for some of the stupidest things on earth. Laws for worshiping the local God whichever that may be, but no laws to feed the hungry, No laws to clothe the under-dressed, no laws to house the homeless, provide heating or cooling (which isn’t always necessary). Electricity, water, air, how about medical attention. I personally do not have the answers to all of these things of course but it would be easier for a large group of people to figure something out, I suggest humanity take a look, maybe the U.N. could look at “that” instead of who lives where.

            Maybe we can have a discussion on removing the leaders who feel its ok to treat entire countries like servants. Leaders who believe “they” are God. A global conversation that has people rising up against those who are creating fear of those on the other-side of the border. Stop them from using God as an excuse for all of it. By removing God from the equation we do remove that.

          • Jethro

            What I’ve been saying in most of my posts lately has to do with the abusive leaders we have in charge. A lot of them shouldn’t be in charge. They are though, and they spark fear beyond they’re own borders. so we make sure we vote in (those of us allowed to vote for leadership) people who seem tough enough to handle those tyrants. If we were to have the right leaders in power, power wouldn’t be an issue. Great leaders would be ready to serve the people under them and not see them as under. They would not fight with other countries or fear being attacked. In every band of the spectrum, someone is afraid they will lose a penny. I, as I said see the benefits of removing religions or at least separating religions from politics (which is impossible) but I would rather start a discussion that would be more over all beneficial to the world. We have no problem removing a murderer from the public, why keep war mongering leaders in power? We don’t have to even kill, just step up and say what we are saying here. The people of the world are tired of all the violence and neglect.

            I wrote this to go with the post below, a little confusion set in while thinking about how troubled our world is and has been. My ability to concentrate comes and goes…

  • stardust

    Hello all, just thought I”d share my chinese fortune cookie. I love getting those cookies not. I hate eating them lol but the fortunes are always pertinent. Here it is:

    “Every person is the creation of him or herself, the image of his own thinking or believing.”

    Isn’t that the most relevant fortune cookie message. It coincides with CWG so much I had to share. Have a good day 🙂

    • YoW! 🙂

      • stardust

        hey marko 🙂 I’ve been waiting on you 🙂 Yowza :P)

    • Bruce Scott-hill

      Hi stardust,

      Love your “”Every person is the creation of him or herself, the image of his own thinking or believing.” Very “Seth” like and wonderfully inspirational since it is a fundamental universal truth!!

      Blessings and Love,

      Bruce

      • stardust

        Thank you, Bruce 🙂 As a matter of fact, there is nothing like left over Chinese food and steamed rice, which I am having for lunch today, but truthfully I thought of something better to add to that fortune cookie. It goes like this:

        “Every person is the creation of him or herself, the image of his own thinking or believing, unless, he or she is thinking and believing she or he is something she or he isn’t.”

  • Hayat Faqeer

    I think we should study the mindset and traits of main war perpetrators in Syria [e.g. Russia]. Can we implement the science of number to change them and transform their views to leave on their own? Can we prevent pain by making chemical attack victims pass away in peace? What do you think?

  • Spiritual_Annie

    Hey, y’all,

    I was looking for inspiration on the web, and found these quotes about peace:

    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality… I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word.
    ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

    I call upon the scientific community in our country, those who gave us nuclear weapons, to turn their great talents now to the cause of mankind and world peace: to give us the means of rendering these nuclear weapons impotent and obsolete.
    ~Ronald Reagan

    There can be no peace in the world so long as a large proportion of the population lack the necessities of life and believe that a change of the political and economic system will make them available. World peace must be based on world plenty.
    ~John Boyd Orr

    That idea of peace and love toward humanity shouldn’t be nationalistic or denominational. It should be a chief concern for all mankind.
    ~Mos Def

    Mankind will never win lasting peace so long as men use their full resources only in tasks of war. While we are yet at peace, let us mobilize the potentialities, particularly the moral and spiritual potentialities, which we usually reserve for war.
    ~John Foster Dulles

    There are no military solutions – dialogue and diplomacy are the only guarantee of lasting peace.
    ~Martin McGuinness

    To achieve a lasting peace in the Middle East takes guts, not guns.
    ~Queen Rania of Jordan

    Just adding to the conversation…

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • Bruce Scott-hill

      Annie,

      These are beautiful and a gift to all of us. Thanks you for your time and energy in digging them out. I intend to use these just as they are in an article downstream on a website.

      Love and Blessings Always,to you too,

      Bruce

  • Bruce Scott-hill

    Hi All,
    I have heaved this in again – as was suggested – as below I have been waiting despairingly for moderation to be completed – it is now over two days, so I think it might never happen. You can see that the things I say are shocking (I’m being ironic), ‘cos clearly they are not, nor deserve such censorship or whatever.

    God Bless,
    Bruce

    Hi Stephen,

    Fully agree and thanks for the hurry up as perhaps it is just as well as we haven’t yet heard from Neale as we are still to address his last two questions i.e. “What is the spiritual solution to the world’s dilemmas? Is there even a good one to be considered? This is a question that I am asked a lot these days. It is a question I ask myself a lot. And that brings me back to Einstein. Was he right?
    I’d like to put the question you to, here — and the specific issue of what, if any, an effective response, spiritual or otherwise, might be to the use of chemical weapons in Syria — before I offer my own observation”.

    Maybe we have already got answers to most of the preceding questions posed by Neale within Jethros gift to us all of Martin Luther King Jrs. messages. Stephen, Marko, Jethro and Sam all choose Martin Luther King Jrs. last quote (provided by Jethro) as the best solution and so do I, i.e. this quote:

    “Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that”.

    So, we have a consensus of “love it is” Any other solutions on analysis, surely fall short of achieving a permanent solution to mitigate against any threat of (say) a chemical attack, or any such attack involving a weapon of mass destruction such as atomic, chemical or biological. A peace treaty is inadequate since all have a finite time of duration. What we need is one which will last forever! Only the concept of spreading the same unifying message of love by as many as we can muster such as:
    “Love God, Love oneself and Love one another – for we are all One”.

    This or a similar message to this) surely resonates with all souls, all peoples and all religions.

    As regards whether Einstein was right – Absolutely, as it is obvious that Love – which is God, and all that exists, far outweighs any energy of hate!

    Finally, we have had an enjoyable game of developing slogans – which could be used as tools we all could use to spread our message as far and as wide as we can. And to shout from the rooftops. These are a list of perhaps the best so far (in their order of appearance in the conversations),

    “Visualize, be and promote peace”.

    “Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly”.

    “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”

    “All parts of the whole adding to the state of chaos and unrest gets their just reward”.

    “We need to put all countries and people first, not just America and Americans.”

    “Equality for All”

    “Nurture others, nurture nature, and you nurture yourself.”

    “Love internally, love externally, love exponentially”

    “When peace is internal, peace is eternal”… “Love everything as if it is God”

    “All is One”

    “Show all creatures kindness, plus all life, and you will experience kindness yourself”

    “Love unconditionally and you will be unconditionally loved”

    “Compassion is Love in Action.”

    Hopefully this will collectively meet Neales’ multiple conversational assignments for us. Please add to this as you see fit and the slogans.

    I am interested in where this is going. I mean we have a mission and slogans, but the next step is that we cannot stop, since we feel we need to spread the word, everywhere in whatever method is best in order to achieve a tipping point, an early transition, and everlasting peace and joy for all.

    In this it would be nice to have Neales input and suggestions to move forward with an evolutionary change.

    Please what do you others think?

    God Bless to you all,
    Bruce Scott-Hill

  • Jethro

    I have been looking and looking and looking for a possible answer to the question above…

    “I’d like to put the question you to, here — and the specific issue of what, if any, an effective response, spiritual or otherwise, might be to the use of chemical weapons in Syria — before I offer my own observation.”

    It’s a question that pings back and forth between spiritual response and one of physical experiences. Both seem to disagree leaving myself with no answer to the immediate problem in Syria.

    “Every problem has a spiritual solution. The solution is found by expanding your awareness, moving beyond the limited vision of the problem. The process begins by recognizing what level of awareness you are working from, then letting your inner awareness express itself. Life flows from within itself, and the more you let go, the more your true self can express its desire to evolve. Once the process is under way, everything changes. Inner and outer worlds reflect each other without confusion or conflict. Because solutions now arise from the level of the soul, they meet no resistance. All your desires lead to the result that is best for you and for the evolutionary expansion of the universe.” – Deepak Chopra

    “Self select to be among those who commit to moving forward their own individual and personal evolution by embracing and demonstrating behaviors that serve to awaken the species to who and what human beings really are (Individuations of Divinity), and how that may be made manifest in our collective experience.” – Neale Donald Walsch

    Practice, Practice, Practice…..

  • Jethro

    I have been watching any documentaries I can find in other countries outside of the political arena and hatred is not dominant. I have determined this far that politics, laws, and leaders are the problem. The average human from any location on earth just wishes the violence would stop. The majority of all humans would not be fighting (it appears) if the leaders and controllers of our borders would just stop fearing some sort of losing position. The humans we call soldier is a human who kills because they have been instructed to do so. Give them a chance at peace and they will take it. All humans will I believe…

    Check out the Christmas Truce of 1914, World War I
    Christmas in 1914 in World War One. In that earlier conflict, thousands of British, French and German soldiers, exhausted by the unprecedented slaughter of the previous five months, left their trenches and met the enemy in No Man’s Land, exchanging gifts, food and stories.

    “The leaders, Determined to win”

    Generals on both sides, determined to prevent fraternization in future, saw to it that such activities would be severely punished and so there were no more Christmas truces the rest of that war or the next.

  • Sam

    Maybe get some other platform altogether, than Disqus. The problems are mounting up. Many posts are simply disappearing into thin air.

    • Bruce Scott-hill

      I sympathise, i have just learned that it is due possibly to a stupid algorithm which falsely identifies them instantly as “spam awaiting resolution” – which to me seems like never. (Why does this make me think of Trump? Joke!).

      Love and Blessings,
      Bruce

  • Spiritual_Annie

    These were much farther down in the discussion, but I think that they are important enough to repost them here:

    Neale spells out the “Five Steps to Peace.” They are:

    1. Acknowledge that some of our old beliefs about God and Life are no longer working.

    2. Acknowledge that there may be something we don’t understand about God or Life, the understanding of which would change everything.

    3. Be willing for a new understanding about God and Life to come forth, and allow this understanding to produce a new way of life on Earth.

    4. Be courageous enough to explore and examine this new understanding and if it aligns with our inner knowing, enlarge our belief system to incude it.

    5. Live our lives as demonstrations of our highest beliefs, rather than denials of them.

    (From The New Revelations, page 14.)

    Specifically addressing Syria, all could come to the table and discuss these steps to peace. Not all would agree, but it’s a conversation.

    And, BTW, Neale continues to put forth these five steps, as do others, without any monetary consideration.

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • Patrick Gannon

      I’ll bite….

      1. Acknowledge that some of our old beliefs about God and Life are no longer working.

      This is because the foundation for the Abrahamic gods, has been washed away, and the further existence of any non-Abrahamic gods cannot be supported based on our core theory of physics. And… are our beliefs in Neale’s god working? Based on the ever-rising discontent, it would seem not.

      2. Acknowledge that there may be something we don’t understand about God or Life, the understanding of which would change everything.

      What we don’t understand is that the Abrahamic gods, at least, do not have any remaining foundation to support them. Understanding this would clearly change everything. More difficult, because your god is more nebulous, but the pantheistic god is on the ropes and getting pummelled.

      3. 4. 5. Agree, Agree, Agree.

      So basically Neale and I agree – it’s just the methodology. He doesn’t want to get rid of beliefs, he wants to change them to his beliefs. As have all religions at all times throughout history!

      • Spiritual_Annie

        My own personal take on the Five Steps to Peace are:

        1. I think the evidence of events such as terrorism, the rising of the IS, the takeover by the Taliban in Afghanistan, the war in Syria, our ongoing issues with Russia, China and North Korea, and the decision that America had the right to start a preemptive war in Iraq are proof that Life, and some of the fundamentalist beliefs about and dogma around God, aren’t working.

        2. I acknowledge that there has been much that has been misunderstood about God, in part because of the fallible human beings who copied and translated the sacred texts of all religions, because human beings have accepted at face value what they hear from their respective families and Faiths, and the understandings about God have been manipulated by those who have something other than Spiritual gain as their motivation. Bringing just these misunderstandings into the light would, indeed, change everything, in addition to a new understanding that God = Love = Life and all creation is Divine and One.

        3. I have allowed a new understanding of Divinity to come forth. It has changed my life and, through me, the lives I’ve touched, and through them, the lives they touch, in an ever-widening sphere because all is One. I will continue to touch the lives of others, so the change continues, especially as Divinity reveals more and more of itself to me.

        4. I have examined my new understanding about Divinity and who I am in this life. My experiences have proven to me that my new understanding works for me, as it does for many others. I have turned my suffering into gratitude, chaos into opportunity, and fear into love. I have, therefore, already Incorporated my new understanding into all areas of my life (most of the time—I’m human).

        5. I do my best to live my life as a demonstration of the unconditional love and compassion I have experienced with Divinity (but, again, I’m human). I smile at strangers, pick up the trash while walking my dog, I speak with the homeless who have a gathering place nearby, I offer assistance to those in need (right now, a homeless friend is sharing my home and food so he can save up for his own place), I sign a lot of petitions for upholding truth and transparency, I write to my legislators nearly every day about peace and equality, I belong to four organizations that promote new ideas about Divinity and our relationship to it, and I celebrate my understanding each week in a new kind of gathering that’s not really church or temple or mosque, but welcomes all to respond to a world in outrageous pain with outrageous love. I have plans for the near future to use my life as an example of the extraordinary change it’s possible to make in one’s life when one believes Life is bigger than we imagine, Divinity can and will give us all what we need, and that gratitude for all things can change our lives​ very much for the better. And, of course, I contribute here.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

      • Spiritual_Annie

        (I deleted my comment as a reply here and moved it to directly reply to the Five Steps to Peace)

      • Bruce Scott-hill

        Patrick,

        Fully agree on all your comments regarding Abrahamic gods, given their teachings of hate and fear, we are truly well rid of them. Love that you agree with Neale, and understand fully and agree with anyone getting upset at someone “demanding” to change one’s beliefs – they haven’t the right. You though are concerned that Neale might wish to “change” your belief’s, but c’mon Patrick that’s absolutely OK. I’ll bet your mother and father wanted to change your belief’s when you were young. Lets please not talk about religions here, while they have done some good, they have also done monstrous harm with fearmongering and inclusiveness. As Neale says none of this is working and change is needed. Obviously though you have the choice to reject or otherwise his ideas and his methodology.

        God Bless

        Bruce

        • Patrick Gannon

          If you were to read the entire blog here, you would find that I have been castigated for a suggestion I made in response to Neale’s question about what we should do in regards to chemical weapons in Syria. Chemical weapons are just a symptom of the greater problem.

          I proposed that a group of highly influential Jews (primarily atheists, agnostics and perhaps some pantheistic types) in all sorts of occupations, sign a declaration or treatise, submitted to the world stage, affirming that they are not “chosen people” granted a “promised land” by a mythical god. This would have to be done in the right language, noting the long held traditions, culture and beliefs of all three Abrahamic religions, but pointing out that the foundation for these gods has washed away. There was no six day creation, no two-person DNA bottleneck, no global flood, no mass Exodus from Egypt and no conquest of Canaan. These things are known beyond reasonable doubt by scholars, but this information has not made it out to the general public in the way that it should. This should not be taken as a suggestion that they abandon the land granted, not by Yahweh, but by the UN.

          Some here object, I suppose because people will have their feelings hurt and get angry, but in order to spark any kind of real change (like Galileo) you have to upset the applecart. The consensus seems to be that while educated westerners are intelligent and educated enough to understand these things, those poor slobs in the mideast are incapable of understanding such things. As Lawrence Krauss, a notable physicist says, ” “The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance, but to overcome it.” We have several folks here anxious to validate ignorance, or so it seems to me.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            “Some here object, I suppose because people will have their feelings hurt and get angry, but in order to spark any kind of real change (like Galileo) you have to upset the applecart. The consensus seems to be that while educated westerners are intelligent and educated enough to understand these things, those poor slobs in the mideast are incapable of understanding such things. As Lawrence Krauss, a notable physicist says, ‘The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance, but to overcome it.’ We have several folks here anxious to validate ignorance, or so it seems to me.”

            While you haven’t mentioned any names, I have to remind you that, for my part of the conversation where you included some of these assumptions, I pointed out that my objections were not about “people will have their feelings hurt,” or “those poor slobs in the mideast are incapable of understanding such things.” I am concerned about the potential for increased violence (not “hurt feelings” but dead or injured human beings) and think any prominent Muslim or Christian (certainly not “poor slobs”!) will be smart enough to see your real goal of killing off religion entirely and have no motivation to have a conversation based on what you propose.

            I am not “anxious to validate ignorance,” but rather to help people return to the Spiritual cores of their religions, without the rigid dogma. I would like to see religions evolve, not kill them off.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Annie,
            As usual a fantastic reply. Why should one put up with dogma. “Love one another is just about all one needs”, so simple! We all though need to quit the “Slobs” since as we are all One, we are insulting ourselves! Instead call out wrongdoing for what it is with Love and compassion, without judgement.

            Love and Blessings Always,to you too, Annie,
            Bruce

          • Bruce Scott-hill

            Hi Patrick,

            Absolutely Love what all that you say re Jews (since plainly we are all equal i.e. All is one, including tribes, races, nations. Except you calling them “slobs” which is cruel. Particularly since I consider you are far more enlightened on this than they. Don’t think you have much of a show though in getting a declaration or treaty from them – ever!

            I guess though rather than upset them by mentioning their sense of inclusiveness – as neale would say, they are fully entitled to keep their beliefs, and when they see others downstream being wholly inclusive and benefiting from that, then their current belief might well seem to them silly and counterproductive – which it is.

            God Bless.
            Bruce

          • Patrick Gannon

            Re, the “slobs” comment – that was sarcasm. Those who know me, would be aware of that. That was my not so well-veiled way of saying that it seems to me there are others who see them as poor slobs. I’m the one who wants to help educate them.

            The idea is fleshed out in much more detail in this impossibly long blog, but the idea is that there are a lot of very famous Jewish people, a great many of whom are atheists, agnostics, and even New Age type of folks, who believe in a pantheistic god but not the Abrahamic god. If there were enough prominent Jewish names willing to come out of the closet and pen a treatise that they all sign and present on a global stage – say the UN – it might kick-start the conversation that we need to have.

            The treatise would start by acknowledging and honoring the deeply held beliefs, traditions and cultural practices of so many, but would then point out why the Abrahamic gods cannot be anything but myths (no six day creation, no two-person DNA bottleneck, no global flood, no mass Exodus from Egypt and no conquest of Canaan – without these pillars, what other foundation is there for the Abrahamic gods?)

            The treatise would acknowledge that the Jews were not “chosen people” selected by Yahweh, and they were not granted a “promised land.” Muslims detest these claims by Judaism, so they would likely react positively to that idea. On the other hand, the reason that these Jews are abandoning this claim is that the foundation for all of the Abrahamic gods has washed out. That means Muslims and Christians alike are affected. With any luck, the verbal $hit would hit the fan and we’d kick off the discussion we need to have. Some here expect this would result in the launch of nukes. I think that risk to be insignificant and acceptably low.

            New Age would want a seat at the table, to proclaim its pantheistic god as a replacement for Abraham, and science would have a seat at the table which would be problematic for New Age, not to mention the others – so it would be interesting. I think religion is something we must stop sweeping under the rug. We have to talk about it, and on a global basis.

            It’s not right, in my view, to assume that just because we’re educated and knowledgeable enough in the west to know these things and to change our society and lifestyle as a result (much as Europeans have done successfully until the recent import of Abrahamic believers which threatens to pull them back again), t