The question of the hour
ARE HUMANS CAPABLE OF
CHANGING BASIC BEHAVIORS?

Changing our idea about ourselves, changing our way of being in the world, is a big order. But is it impossible?

A reader here posting as “Raphael” makes some interesting observations regarding the North Korean/U.S. standoff. Among them: “Men appear to love war, women appear to admire men who love war, and new generations are always born who, knowing nothing about war, think it is the most exciting and glorious game that there is to be played. The principle source of conflict between individuals or nations is, in my view, a drive to dominate, which seems to be deeply ingrained in all mammals. There cannot be any peace when individuals compete furiously to get on top of one another to determine who will be boss, who will be the alpha male or female, who will have authority and power over others…that’s basically what it comes down to, and it is not very intelligent.”

This leaves us wondering. Can anything be done about this seemingly “ingrained” human behavior? My answer is yes. We are more capable now than ever before of considering, embracing, and sharing ideas and understandings that would have been completely out of reach for our species just a few generations ago, given our our then-limited mental capacities and technological capabilities. But humanity’s collective mind is more mature now, and our technologies have expanded. We carry knowledge of the world in the palm of our hand, and we spread ideas around the world with the touch of a screen.

All we need to do now is change the ideas that we spread. All we need to do today is place into the global slipstream a new and spectacularly beneficial (and therefore, spectacularly attractive) meme for all of humanity to consider.

A “meme” is defined as an element of a culture or system of behavior that is passed from one individual to another by nongenetic means, especially imitation. So what we are talking about here is transforming society by nongenetic means.

If we are not content with waiting for new and more beneficial behaviors to be passed from one generation to the next through the agonizingly slow process of mutation or adaptation, we can now opt for the blindingly fast process of imitation.

That’s where you and I can come in. If enough of us agree to be exemplars, models, embodiments for the rest of humanity of how all of humanity can experience itself peacefully if it chooses to, we could change the world in less than a generation.

What this would take, of course, is leadership. True leadership is not saying “follow me.” True leadership is saying, “I’ll go first.” We would have to be first to put aside our tribalism and our need to be “right” at any cost. We would have to embrace a spiritual understanding that we are not separate from each other at all, but emerge from the same essence and return to the same eternality; that we are part of a never-ending and ever unified energy flow, much as a wave is part of the ocean, rising, expressing, and flowing back to its source.

If enough of us at the grass roots level demonstrated such behaviors, our world leaders sooner or later would follow suit, because they know they need the support of those who follow them to stay in power. So the key question for us on this day is simple: What behaviors are we cheering on, and what behaviors are we displaying, encouraging others to imitate?

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  • cloutierfamily

    You are that global spiritual leader, and you have publicly now said those very things. Thank you. Peace to the world, love to everyone. No more war…ever.

  • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

    Thank you for posting this, I feel like I’ve time traveled back to the 1950’s 60’s where the kids were told put their heads under the desk in case of a nuclear war.

    This is serious stuff!,– a crazy leader in North Korea, a hell hole place on planet earth if ever there was one. Add to that our current straight out of a Rod Serling Twilight Zone show, president often acting like a spoiled 5 year old Trump and scary as hell too for many of us.

    As I recall book 4 talks about protection from other nefarious alien races from harming earth. Further it states that the collective will not allow earth to be destroyed as the collective does not want to extinct itself.

    Now, if you please, my guess is, that we as a collective not only do not want to go extinct, but do not desire to live in a waste land of nuclear and ecological disaster.

    I can’t imagine our collective will would want that on any level. Yet can an individual or a few individuals in great power override the collective will?

    We could have destroyed ourselves decades ago with nuclear war and many will say that the deterrent of that was ironically caused by the fear of what could happened and thus not using those weapons.

    Your thoughts Neale?

    And by the way, you, Marianne Williamson, Deepak Chopra, Eckhart Tolle and others should get together & do the television thing. As you have stated. Leaders say, I’ll go first.
    Don’t wait for the others.

  • Roger Jimlad

    On BBC Radio 4 this morning, during the five minute religious slot, I heard a leading Christian churchman say that “there is a significant and unbridgeable gap between man and God”.
    I also saw a twitter post from a US “pastor” that said “the Bible gives [the President] all the moral authority he needs to use force to take out an evil-doer like Kim Jong Un”.

    Humanity is stuck in a very dangerous paradigm and it could end us all.

  • Stephen mills

    “What hurts you so badly that you have to hurt each other in order to heal it ”

    Great question comes from one of my favourite of Neales books The New Revelations !

    North Korea has been isolated from Western Culture for a long time .The leaders of that country are perceiving a threat to them from in this case the USA .And these threats are mounting up .

    The chapter from this book is 15 ; pages 160-164 helps us all understand a way in which dsagreements can be healed .

    Another powerful message from this chapter is .” All attack is seen by the attacker as a defence . Understanding this is the basis of all healing.

  • Sam

    In my view, spiritual leaders, of some stature, are soon a thing of the past, and why this phenomenon slowly is fading out. The guiding beacon is not about the few anymore, on the outside, but about to flourish among the many, from inside. For this to happen, in the final phase, big towers, with big shadows, have to step back.

  • Raphael

    I am not certain that the question “What hurts you so badly that you have to hurt each other in order to heal it”, which is a great question to ask to many people who hurt someone, would apply in this case.

    Again, you will notice that it is not women who are engaging in this tiresome “bellicose chest-thumping, finger-wagging, and threat-making” exercise that is placing the world in danger, but men.

    This is not to say that there is something fundamentally wrong with us men…but that there is something very wrong with what we are taught to believe masculinity is or should be, which is mainly dominance.

    I won’t say anymore, I will just let you think about it and let you draw your own conclusions.

  • Jethro

    “If I were a global spiritual leader I would take the global stage and make such statements immediately — this day, and not a minute later.”
    I’m assuming this has been posted on Facebook, It has been posted here, It will show up Saturday morning in “the weekly bulletin” pretty soon. Why not go that extra step and televise?
    Neale, the only thing that stops you from being a global spiritual leader is your own thoughts about it… but you know that already.

  • Craig

    Neale what is the difference between the human body and body of Christ? Is working together to subdue the earth not the purpose of trusting in the Maker?
    The only time political leaders will listen is when they have to personally and physically lead their country into battle. Doing that from a comfort chair is not leading it is pushing…

    • Raphael

      Leaders in the distant past did just that, they led the charge on the battlefield, and it did not stop them. It certainly did not stop Custer…only bullets and arrows stopped him. Men appear to love war, women appear to admire men who love war, and new generations are always born who, knowing nothing about war, think it is the most exciting and glorious game that there is to be played.

      The principle source of conflict between individuals or nations is, in my view, a drive to dominate, which seems to be deeply ingrained in all mammals. There cannot be any peace when individuals compete furiously to get on top of one another to determine who will be boss, who will be the alpha male or female, who will have authority and power over others…that’s basically what it comes down to, and it is not very intelligent.

      Now we have contests to determine what will essentially be the “alpha” nation, the hyper power, the super dominant heavy weight who will claim authority and power over the whole world. It seems that the United States is a strong and very determined contender…this is not very intelligent either.

      • Craig

        True Raphael.
        How do we change it?

        • Raphael

          Change has to come from within…it comes from a desire to change…desire has to be there…and often, a desire to change does not come until there is real, unbearable discomfort with a given situation.

          In other words, humanity might have to experience serious difficulties before wanting and asking for real, significant change. This represents the slow learning way, the hard way…it might be the way humanity chooses….we will see.

          • Craig

            Thanks Raphael
            I think change or a desire to change can also occur when motivation or support to be better or how to add value is accepted as a possibility.
            Your definition is how most individuals do react. Is it not more valuable to create the desire before the worst is experienced?

          • Raphael

            Of course it is (better to create the desire before the worst is experienced). But this takes wisdom and a healthy, positive attitude…and I am not certain that the majority of humanity is there yet.

          • Craig

            Just what Patrick and I referred to in the earlier block. Then the school system should teach individuals these soft skills. Teaching them a changing syllabus to fit into science advancement will not help… Proper life skill schooling may then be the next great step needed to advance society…

      • Sam

        Any choice and it’s seen as the best decision in that moment. Including those acts of domination. Choices made from not finding something better. Actually and for real doing the best they can.
        Domination is still in play, but we have softened. Most men in the western world now believe in equality between the genders. Great progress compared to not that many years ago. Things are ergo moving forward. And why Neale’s 16 items is just a matter of time.
        How smart depends on the heart; where the focus must be to make real change.

      • Stephen mills

        Your understanding that alpha males appear to love war and that our leaders take us to war makes sense to me.

        Here’s something from Riane Eisler’s book The Chalice and The Blade that you might find interesting.

        In his book Wealth and Poverty (George Gilder) ,hailed by President Reagan as one of the most important works on capitalism since Adam Smith’s The Wealth of Nations ,Gilder specifically extols what he terms “the males superior aggression” as the greatest of all social and economic values .

        That combined with aficionados of Ayn Rand’s novel Atlus Shrugged in the current administration you can see why we are where we are. Its all very silly really, very sad in fact ! All not necessary !

        • Raphael

          Very true…

          In his books “beyond good and evil” and “The genealogy of morals”, Friedrich Nietzsche encourages men to be crueler and more evil…more selfish and individualistic…He complains that morality is a weapon used by the weak to limit the strong…He calls on a “will to power”…

          Nietzsche: “A high civilization is a pyramid; it can stand only upon a broad base; its prerequisite is a strongly and soundly consolidated mediocrity.” (my comment: the elite has taken us there today…at the bottom).

          “What is good? All that increases the feeling of power, the will to power, power itself, in man. What is bad? All that comes from weakness.”

          According to Nietzsche, honor is pagan, Roman, feudal, aristocratic; conscience is Jewish, Christian, bourgeois, democratic…and according to him conscience is the enemy of all that is good (my comment: the elite is taking us back to feudal times, with a quasi aristocratic elite controlling the world).

          Interestingly, this barbarian Nietzsche ideology matches that of the rightwing, of Ann Rand (“greed is good” “selfishness is good”), as well as that of the Nazis (white power) and of satanists (worshipping power and exploiting and eradicating the “weak” according to “natural law”).

          This should give us an idea of where we are…

          • Stephen mills

            There’s a great article over at Alternet by Thom Hartmann about the GOP’s support of white supremists and Nazism .

          • Raphael

            Thanks I will check it out!

    • Patrick Gannon

      “…what is the difference between the human body and body of Christ?”

      What is the body of Christ? What does that mean?

      It can mean Jesus’ so-called spiritual body represented by bread and wine, or the body of a real person, or it can refer to the Church.

      Humans have a real body made of real particles. Jesus was probably mostly or completely mythological, so his body was made of synapses firing in the minds of the people who invented him – like the author of Mark. If Jesus was a real person, then his body was just like ours. There is no such thing as a spiritual body, or if there is, it has no place in our natural world. It cannot affect us in any way, since it can’t interact with the particles of our world.

      The spiritual body – the Catholic transubstantiation violates the laws of physics – it’s pure nonsense and always has been. And of course the human body is not the same as a loosely defined organization referred to as the “church.”

      So, I guess, the answer is…. the human body is real. The body of Christ is a myth.

      “Is working together to subdue the earth not the purpose of trusting in the Maker?”

      What Maker? (LOL, we’ve had this discussion).

      • Craig

        Christ has many different understandings depending on who you ask. For me Christ represents the words of God (for you the words that bring harmony to civilization) taking on flesh, in other words applying this humanity science principle. Please not a church as that creates the idea that good will is only possible if one gathers to praise and worship…
        Rather something like a group of people working towards making these principles a reality for others… For example, People assisting others to achieve their full potential.
        The human body Neale refers to sounds as if he is implying such a gathering of individuals. I doubt in Neale was referring to my 120kg bulk or your lesser bulk.

        • Patrick Gannon

          Yes, the word has many different understandings, which makes it a poor word to try and communicate with – just like the word “God.” Neale likes to claim that his “movement” is not a religion, but in using the word “God” (Conversations with God), he irretrievably made it a religion, because of the meaning that the word God has for so many people.

          I don’t think words like “god” and “christ” are useful, as they always lead to different understandings and definitions which pull people apart, rather than giving them something to agree with.

          • Craig

            Would it then be fair in a modern era to rather refer to these terms as life principles or norms, which shape and improve peoples relationships and interactions??

          • Patrick Gannon

            I see these terms (“god,”christ”) dividing and separating people. I see it every day. How is “god” a life principle? To me the word refers to a mythical being whose book describes him as a rather human tyrant. Sexism, slavery and genocide don’t shape and improve people’s relationships and interactions! The word “christ” reminds me that before Jesus was invented, there was no such concept as eternal torture. These words give me bad vibes, and I think that’s true for others, as well as a wide variety of other vibes that come along with these divisive words.

            I try to avoid the PC on weekends, with inconsistent success. I always have more projects, than time to do them on weekends, but if I come into my office to handle some work, I may end up making a few posts.

          • Craig

            Well, what did God and Jesus do to you personally to get you so up in “arms” against them?
            Remember that what the records reveal may just explain how each generation was dealt with according to their own unique culture, not our western Greek influenced mindset…

          • Patrick Gannon

            Well, nothing of course. How do imaginary, invisible beings that live in the sky do anything personally to anyone?

            Now, what the religions that insist on the existence of these imaginary beings have done is a different story entirely.

            All we have to tell us about the Abrahamic gods are the ancient texts that do not paint an accurate picture of history, and that glorify vicious, evil gods. Without those texts, those gods don’t exist, and the texts have all been debunked. Isn’t it time we recognize that!

          • Craig

            Well said.
            Think back when you were a 6 year old. Your dad was the strongest, best and most brutal man alive, he could conquer anyone or overcome everything. That is what you are reading of in ancient scripts people’s views of how they encountered the power of their God. Was in factual or imaginary or a way of speech we will never truly now.
            For us today maybe we should place these scripts in line with mystical concepts to explain things people did not understand. And placing this in context with love, compassion, care etc. Again I believe I will be a brutal beast should my family be threatened, I will kill without second thought. So would 90% individuals living only for their close family. I have seen how 7 year olds stab intruders multiple times to defend their injured parents. That my friend is the message you may be reading of concerning the ability of the Abrahamic God as you refer to it. The record of their discovery path of finding the truth. The Israelites were soft gentle people in relation to the Egyptians and Romans of the time.
            Which changed when life principles were introduced. The Mosaic laws… Forget the cultural influenced sacrificial scripts and focus on the relationship forming ones. I trust you too may find them meaningful. That is my view.
            I was not there, I can only verify certain facts, the rest I take with a pinch no tablespoon of salt.
            And yes the followers way of dealing with others are horrific and brutal. Yet today when we drop a bomb on a camp how different are we…
            I think this is the message being shared. For things to change Tao said back 3000 plus years ago. We must change they way think about them.
            It is taking us a lifetime to come to that attitude. As you said before. We are promoting the wrong things, creating the wrong impressions in our children. This culture has not changed since biblical times and I think this may be what Neale is hinting towards.
            Evolving as humans means we need to think better, be better and do better every time we face something new. That is the only healthy competition we can have. Against ourselves or else we will keep chasing other people’s goals aspirations and views.
            May our life wisdom guide us while our knowledge empowers us.

          • Patrick Gannon

            “Was in factual or imaginary or a way of speech we will never truly now.”

            Of course we know. We know it was not factual. I’ve pointed this out before, and am happy to do so again. The existence of the Abrahamic gods is based on 5 pillars – if you can come up with anything else upon which he is based, please let me know. We know today beyond any reasonable doubt that there was 1) no six day creation, 2) no two-person DNA bottleneck, 3) no global flood, 4) no mass Exodus from Egypt, and 5) no conquest of Canaan by Israelites. With all of these non factual, and imaginary things understood beyond reasonable doubt, what else could the Abrahamic god(s) be based on? What else is there? That’s where he comes from. He’s debunked. Isn’t it time we admitted this? There may or may not be gods, but the Abrahamic gods are toast.

            “The Israelites were soft gentle people in relation to the Egyptians and Romans of the time.”

            Not sure that’s true. Does that include stoning adulterers to death? Killing people for making loans and charging interest? Failing to be a virgin on your wedding night? None of these people were soft and gentle, else they would not have survived in a difficult environment. They were brutal people who lived in a brutal world, and invented a brutal god(s) to try and explain it.

            Now if you want to argue that the early Jews and later Christians -and even for a short time, the Muslims, contributed to western civilization, law, literature, philosophy, etc., then I certainly agree with that. But this is all the work of men. Why is that so difficult to accept? We accept that Zeus was mythical, and there is no more evidence for Yahweh than there is for Zeus. Hades (translated as “Hell”) is in the New Testament, and Hades was brother to Zeus and Poseidon, so if Hades is real, then so are Zeus and Poseidon!

            Religion is about tribalism. Strength in numbers. Common beliefs to draw people together, and support us versus them. It once served a useful purpose, and without the beliefs, the organizations known as churches that help people, are still useful social constructs; but it’s time to release the fear we have of these imaginary beings. Even CwG is a tribe for those believing in NAG (New Age God), and it created yet another degree of separation because it too is based on an imaginary, invisible being.

            “I think this is the message being shared. For things to change Tao said back 3000 plus years ago. We must change they way think about them.”

            Agree. That’s correct. We have to start thinking about things in terms of what can be supported by compelling, objective evidence, and stop wasting our time on imaginary, invisible beings who live in the sky, divide us into tribes, and pit us against each other.

            “This culture has not changed since biblical times and I think this may be what Neale is hinting towards.”

            Oh, I can’t agree with that. I think we’ve made tremendous strides. Slavery, genocide, sexism, racism, discrimination against the disabled, murder of innocents, and even homophobia are all becoming unacceptable. We have overcome much of the horror of biblical times, though the tribalism part that divides us lives on, and is at time substituted by nationalism which does the same thing.

            “Evolving as humans means we need to think better, be better and do better every time we face something new.”

            With emphasis on the “think better” part. We have two thinking systems, and the one that ties us to our tribal traits, is part of that fast-thinking, reactive way of thinking, rather than the second, slow, deliberative, cognitive way of thinking that we often neglect. There’s an expression that we should go with our gut instinct, and in cases of danger, that’s absolutely correct. In almost all other instances though, it’s detrimental, because we jump to a decision instead of putting time and energy into actually studying it.

            We agree in large part on how to move forward; we disagree in that you still want to invoke that which divides us – your imaginary, invisible being that lives in the sky! Why do we need him? He’s bad news…

          • Craig

            To differ is good.

            Thank you well concluded let’s go to the next blog…

  • Patrick Gannon

    Interesting article and a welcome change of pace from the prior depressing series.

    A bit of trivia, for those who may not know, but Richard Dawkins, notable atheist and evolutionary biologist is the one who coined the term “meme.” The concept encountered a lot of opposition early on, but has now become fairly well accepted as accurately describing how ideas/memes have contributed to top-down social evolution as bottom-up biological evolution has stalled. Daniel Dennett, (also an atheist) a notable philosopher recently expounded on the idea, explaining how top-down social evolution complemented bottom-up biological evolution.

    This article is noticeably missing any woo. Perhaps an “awakening” is occurring! (grin).

    I agree with the call to leadership. I’ve put forth my own suggestion in the past here, to great criticism, but I’ll put it out again, as I’ve received some positive responses in other quarters… I posted this recently in our local paper in response to an editorial about the middle east.

    “You get a large number of secular, humanist, free-thinking Jews to come together and sign a treatise that they present on a global stage. You get Nobel prize winners, scientists, authors, bankers, businessmen, sports stars, movie stars, the most prominent secular Jewish people possible, and you have them present a treatise that states in part, that they reject, and call upon fellow Jews to reject, any notion that the Israelites are “chosen people” or that they have any divine right to a “promised land.”

    This should not be taken to infer that Israel should leave the land that the UN, and not Yahweh gave them, but the treatise should call upon the government of Israel and all Jews to reject this mythology as any sort of justification for Israel.

    Many Muslims hate the idea of a “chosen people” and a “promised land” so they might look favorably on this development, but then the second part of the treatise kicks in as these prominent people lay out their reasoning for abrogating their connection to the primitive myth. The treatise would go step by step, describing the crumbled pillars for the existence of the Abrahamic gods: 1) No six day creation, 2) No two-person DNA bottleneck, 3) No global flood, 4) No mass Exodus from Egypt, and 5) No conquest of Canaan. All these things are known to be true beyond reasonable doubt by most scholars these days. Without these five pillars, what remains to support the existence of the Abrahamic gods?

    The treatise might go on a bit further to point out that the core theory –
    standard model of physics has illustrated, again beyond reasonable doubt, that there are no magical god, soul, consciousness, or other forces that have any impact whatsoever on the particles that make up our natural world. If these forces exist, they don’t matter here. They are moot.

    The idea, of course, is to start the discussion the world needs to have. The discussion about religion. Until we do this, the region will continue to tread water, waiting for the great white shark of war to pull them under.

    Crazy idea? Perhaps, but none of the old ideas seem to be working.”

    As it turned out, I had a few “likes” and only one person who objected enough to respond to me. He said I was asking too much of the Jews and not enough of the Muslims. In light of Neale’s article I would respond… “What this would take, of course, is leadership. True leadership is not saying “follow me.” True leadership is saying, “I’ll go first.” “

    • Kristen

      I assume that you support what you stand for, and dont support anything Jewish! The entire western world probably, the very foundations of your life, it would actually be fun to watch you, and other Jewish haters try, Im sure all my relatives and ancestors would have a good laugh as well! Or are you like Muslims, the ones you say hate Jews or the concept behind it…..whole they sit in Levis, using google on Dell computers!
      Give it a go, there are good websites with company/brand names to boycott or forsake because of your personal beliefs, I use them to know who to support. Warning…you may need to go back to living in the bush.
      Just for starters Sears, Kmart, Levis, Benneton, Home Depot, U-haul, most insurance companies and banks, Disney, Pixar, most movie studios, Google, Chrysler, Intel, Oracle, most sports teams, Dell, Absolut, Jim Beam, most TV channels etc.
      People are such hipocrates, they want the goods and lifestyle, born out of Scriptures, and to eat a piece of the God blessings pie that He gives to hard working Israelites and Jewish people, including the US dollar, and the very concept of Law, yet speak as you do. Or is it just something in Jewish and Israelites brains that make them so incredibly successful that the entire West, including America, is built on their foundations, and that for a minority group they keep huge proportions of the world employed, probably including you.
      I’m out of here, because your racial attitude and lack of understanding, and refusal to understand, that some people do experience God in their lives, with faith and facts proven to them time and time again, daily even, is exhausting, and incredibly offensive to myself, my relatives, ancestors, life in general, and most of all, God.
      I waited a couple of days before replying to this, the rage and complete hatred I felt was insane, something Ive never felt before, and was a scary insight into how some Muslims must feel, uncontrollable rage toward some, really sad. I guess that rage must be from my brain, right? Although how it got there is beyond me, I dont even have the capability for anger normally.
      Anyway, enjoy the new life, a Jewish, God and Israelite free one in the bush somewhere.
      Take care,
      K

      • Patrick Gannon

        I’m not a Jewish hater, but nice spin, Kristen. Rather than deal with the issue I raised – that of a number of prominent Jewish secularists disavowing, not their ancestry, heritage, traditions or innumerable accomplishments – but the idea that they are “chosen people” granted a “promised land” by an imaginary, invisible being who lives in the sky, instead you accuse me of bigotry. Pathetic response, indicating you have no comprehension of what I’m proposing. I have so much respect for these people and what they have accomplished that I think they may be the only ones who have the leadership Neale described, that is required to start us on a path to civility. It seems you would prefer that people continue to kill each other in the name of your vicious (and fortunately imaginary) god, rather than even consider solutions to start a conversation.

        If you are out of here, because of a post, then you are illustrating that you are not one of those prominent Jews who might be willing to help start a global conversation. Indeed you would rather stifle the conversation, or walk away from it altogether. To any clear-thinking person, it should be self-evident that I am not a Jew hater or a bigot, but my post angered you so much, that the problem must be something else – and that I assume is having your cherished beliefs challenged – that you are indeed a “chosen” one and you are deserving by birth of a “promised land” and because I have challenged that belief, you have responded with rage. Well, sorry Kristen, but you aren’t a “chosen” one, any more than anyone else. Deal with it. If you deal with it by leaving the conversation – consider what that says about how interested you really are in solving any problems.

        Tell me why the idea won’t work. Point out the flaws. Suggest improvements or alterations, but calling me a Jew-hater and a bigot illustrates who the real hater is.

        If I am offending your god -the god of the bible, then boo-hoo. If an all-powerful being is so easily offended by a mere human then he’s a putz to begin with. As for your rage and hatred – neither of which I possess, I suggest you see a counselor. Yes your rage came from your brain. Where else would it have come from? Your feet?

        • Kristen

          Really? You see it like that?
          Ive said many a time that I acknowledge everyone equally, everyone and everything is but a grain of sand, and never have I implied I feel chosen or anything.
          I just note that one God chose be to the God of one family, that then became Israelites, some Jewish, some not PLUS people in their households, that then became Muslims, His people as well, and He and others blessed both families thousand of years ago. Which is clearly evident through Jewish and Israelite families, as I pointed out. Especially Moses blessing asking God to thwart the enemies of Levites when He is pleased with the work of their hands.
          Jews, refers to the religion of Israelites, which you clearly hate. The religion, not the people. The people are called Israelites, as scripture constantly refers to them. Judaism and the Jewish religion are just a part of them, the part you clearly hate.

          We see this all so very differently.
          I see it for what it is. One man who lost his faith, and for his own personal reasons is on a personal crusade to encourage others to throw theirs away, including clearly wanting those whom God has proven Himself to for generation after generation, thousands of years as their family God, to renounce God. Including constant letters to churches and the like, suggesting they throw away their positive relationship with God. And is so angry about God, the Church, or something, that he has turned to science to fill what is commonly referred to as the ‘God Hole’, a hole left in peoples lives. Which if that guy wasnt so offensive in the way he goes about it, dismissing that others do have a real relationship with God, or a different God, then it would be really sad, as well as him dismissing personal experiences.
          Its always sad when someone ends up smack bang on the Tree of Knowledge, a puppet of the Serpant, just waiting to strike when he/it can. Its not like we werent all warned. But Im out of symathy sorry, Im human. God may still have some for you though, there is always hope. I hear born again Evangelist churches can have great music, always a good thing.
          Take care,
          K

          BTW putz is a Jewish word! A stupid worthless timewaster who engages in unproductive activities. Really? You think God is a putz? Nice. Get praying kid.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Of all the Abrahamic religions, I am least hostile to Judaism – the religion. I am quite capable of separating the religion from the people who exercise it. I understand that most believers are wracked with fear of their god.

            You suggested that your god has shown himself – but that’s nonsense. There is absolutely no compelling, objective evidence for Yahweh or any other god, and you know it. Your religion is based on mythology. We know today beyond any reasonable doubt that there was no six day creation, no two-person DNA bottleneck, no global flood, no Moses or mass Exodus from Egypt and no conquest of Canaan. I am reading a book about Moses now, and it’s even worse than I thought. The Moses stories were apparently written many hundreds of years after this mythical man was said to have lived. These things are well known by even most religious scholars. Your god is a myth, a vicious cruel myth that has brought us millenia of violence, hatred, separation, etc. Look at your reaction… I challenged your beliefs and you struck out at me with “rage” to use your own words. This is what the Abrahamic religions do.

            You can go ahead and accuse me of whatever you like, but I have selected the path of enlightenment, rather than fear and worship of vicious, imaginary beings that live in the sky, and I’m quite comfortable with it, and if you don’t like what I have to say, you have the option of skipping it.

            You’ve failed to comment on the merits of my idea, choosing like so many other believers do when their beliefs are challenged, to turn your wrath to the messenger. It’s a shame that so many believers are incapable of actually commenting on the topic at hand, rather than doing what their religious beliefs tell them to do: ATTACK the one who challenges them. Not just attack, but according to your sacred texts – KILL. That’s what your religion calls for. Must suck that you can’t get away will killing non-believers these days!

            As for prayer, I’ll take it up when I see an amputee pray back a missing limb. Your god either hates amputees, or is incapable of healing them. Yeah – he’s an imaginary putz all right.

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Kirsten,

        Are you sure your real name isn’t Deborah? Y’know, like the prophetess (though I know you’ve learned about dream interpretation and I know the diff), warrior, layer-down-of-the-law one I’ve read about… Just kidding. Hope you’re feeling more balanced, and I hope you don’t leave us.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Kristen

          I wish…then blasphme would be punishable, and respect still in place!
          Xx

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Patrick,

      Personally, while I acknowledge that yours is at least a different approach, I think the general response would be, “Who cares what they think?” and would just get lost in the noise of the Middle East debates. I can see where people of faith will continue to have faith, regardless of any such declaration. Muslims and others in the Middle East may care about those two particular phrases, but I don’t think it would start much of a conversation. There are already too many other issues involved–money, oil, politics… I think it would be a whimper in a storm.

      • Patrick Gannon

        Thank you for your critique of the idea, rather than my person. I fear that you are correct, nevertheless, as you point out, it is a different idea, and nothing else has worked. It is in keeping with Neale’s call for real leadership.

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Neale did call for leadership, but his definition of a leader is one who says “I’ll go first” rather than “follow me.”

          As I see it, saying “I’ll go first” is about living as we believe, even into uncharted territory where we don’t have all the information or all the details, and doing it in such a way that it draws attention and inspires others to join us on the journey. The one who says “follow me” might have an incredible plan to promote action, but no one wants to follow them, as they may not necessarily live the same beliefs or inspire others, or walk with everyone else rather than ahead of their followers.

          What I’ve said in my original comment for this column suggests individual and possibly group action in a variety of ways, tailored to who we are, with suggestions on ways to be that more openly, or even to publicly be who we really are. That’s my way of saying, “I’d love for you to join me on a journey. I know one path, and I’m glad to share it, but here are some others that might also get us to where we now need to go.”

          Do you understand the difference?

          • Sam

            I think maybe you came in a little late for this column and didn’t see Neale changing it quite a bit? And I am not sure if Patrick has noticed that the version he is referring to is no longer there.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Sam,

            The column above looks the same as when I first read it. Was it significantly different? Any reason for the changes? Do you think that’s why Patrick and I are seeing things differently (because, well… we see a lot of things differently, so that’s certainly not new)? I’m confused… again.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Sam

            I would say significantly different and to something significantly better. We are all human. I think Neale was a little upset over the escalation of the North Korean situation, and therefore called for the global spiritual leaders to speak up, and show some leadership. Well, as I recall it at least. Then I guess he thought about it, and incorporated things being said here, and rather elaborated on that. Brilliantly so, and a nice gesture I thought. For example, the “follow me” vs “I’ll go first” was Patrick’s words picked up by Neale. If my memory serves me right that is. I am guilty in skimming through things, so I won’t say anything for sure, in detail :)
            Patrick should wake up and read this as well. And recognize that you haven’t read the first version he most likely is referring to (“real leadership”).

          • Patrick Gannon

            Interesting. I can’t trust my memory to confirm with any confidence that the article was edited, but it does “feel” a little different from when I first read it, but that often happens on a second or third reading of something. However, I’m pretty confident that Neale was first to confirm that real leaders go first, with a “follow me” attitude.

            As Sam points out, we need global leadership. We can and should all “participate” but I’m not sure we should inflate our egos by referring to ourselves as “real leaders” for simply doing what any decent human being would do. It’s along the same lines as giving kids “participation” awards, unintentionally demeaning the value of those who really performed and showed real leadership.

            In his previous column, Neale said an “awakened species” does not compete. Well, that’s what “real leadership” is all about. It’s about competing for hearts and minds.

          • Sam

            “Interesting. I can’t trust my memory to confirm with any confidence that the article was edited, but it does “feel” a little different from when I first read it”

            Feel a little different? And I thought you had this superhero memory. What’s wrong with you? It’s like your left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing, grrrr :)
            Neale quoting Raphael on top, is quite a change already. Like 130 words that first wasn’t there. No need for feelings, it’s as obvious as the nose on your face. “Slapping my forehead” :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            The comment referencing Raphael was there when I first read it. I may not have seen an earlier version, if there was one. If there are any changes since I first read it, they are subtle.

          • Sam

            If there was one, an earlier version? There is no doubt about that, Patrick. The quote put in was written by Raphael the 10th, and Neale published his column the 9th. You see how there must have been an earlier version? In fact, your first post here was only 2 hours after the one Raphael posted, that got quoted by Neale. Which means I very much doubt you didn’t see the first version as well. I think you must suffer from serious amnesia, or maybe it was your girlfriend writing in your name? But ok, whatever, Patrick :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’m quite confident in my memory that the reference to Raphael’s material was in place when I read the new article. To me, the end of the article seems slightly different. Perhaps I viewed the article shortly after Neale edited it. For whatever reason, I don’t get notifications of new articles, and have to check from time to time, to see if there’s a new article. I was responding to someone in the past article, and clicked “headline” to see if there was a new article – there was, and I responded to it. I liked it much better than the last article. What possible motive would I have for lying? Why does it concern you so much?

            I’m pretty sure Annie and I both read the same article.

          • Sam

            I agree that we should keep this conversation going until Neale steps in with the facts regarding when exactly the new version was published. Do you also agree that I, and everyone, can call you a liar, if the new version was published after your first post, and therefore had to see the first version you then was responding to? Why does it concern me? Because I think I am right, as something just a matter of facts. If I am wrong, it’s okay too. But thus far, the logic and the odds, tell me otherwise. Over to you :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            You can call me whatever you want. I don’t give flying fart what you think. Everytime I respond to one of your posts I regret it. Done with you.

          • Raphael

            You too? I learned my lesson a few weeks ago. It is best to ignore some individuals …

          • Sam

            “You too? I learned my lesson a few weeks ago. It is best to ignore some individuals …”

            Well, yes, facing reality can be tough. Better go hide sometimes. I don’t blame you :)

          • Kristen

            OMG, for once Im with you on this one.

          • Sam

            Really? Well, ok :)

          • Sam

            The facts are the facts, Patrick. Nothing to be afraid of :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            Yeah I understand the difference. A group of people willing to take the dangerous step of placing their reputations, and perhaps even their lives on the line is real leadership, the other is pretend leadership.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I see. Well…

            I think that living as the Divinely human being that I am, openly and honestly in a world currently filled with such vitriol and testosterone that it can be dangerous to be different, is being bold.

            And I think using technology to share and discuss ideas openly and honestly–via publishing, podcasts, YouTube, social media, the next and newest app, the next and newest platform–is both bold and innovative.

            I use that technology for publishing what I write, which is akin to “coming out of the closet” because it places me outside of my safety zone and my comfort zone, and it does put my reputation at stake because it’s my name that’s attached to my content.

            And, finally, any day I exist as the Divinely human being that I truly am, I know someone already wants me dead because of my sexual orientation, my gender bending, and my full suport of my LGBTQ “kin.” If you think marching in the second largest Pride parade in the U.S., in front of local and national news cameras, doesn’t put a person’s reputation, livelihood and life on the line, then you haven’t been paying attention.

            I guess I must meet your standards for “real leadership.”

          • Patrick Gannon

            Sorry, but I don’t see publishing on the internet in various forums as being “bold.” I do it almost every day, and I do so in forums where I am often unwelcome, and sometimes personally attacked with rather vicious personal insults (particularly in a Catholic forum) because of my views. I dropped out of Muslim forums after having my life threatened twice. I don’t consider myself particularly innovative or bold, just another human being expressing my opinions and thoughts. Nothing special – a participant, not a leader.

            Marching in a demonstration, while admirable if the cause is just, (and in your case I agree that it is), is not leadership – it’s participation. Neale called for real leadership – that’s well above and beyond what we do, when we’re speaking in terms of solving societal problems. We may have influence, as Neale does, but leadership to solve global problems is not something we can take credit for.

            So, no, I’m sorry but I would not describe these activities as “real leadership,” but certainly as useful participation.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Please allow me to clarify by going into more detail I left out earlier as I was trying to be succinct.

            First, we (or at least I) was discussing the qualities of leadership, addressing the “I’ll go first” compared to the “follow me” leadership styles. I was not specifically discussing “leadership to solve global problems.”

            I am a writer. I don’t just comment in forums and on blogs. I publish on Medium, and have written for other digital mags and platforms, as well as having had my own blogs and websites (and am working on a new one), all under my legal name, which puts my personal reputation on the line. The purpose of my writing is to first express myself, but almost always in a way that inspires and helps others. I do that because it is who I am, but also now on purpose because I believe in building people up as opposed to tearing them down. I consider that to be a leadership quality.

            My articles cover the topics of Spirituality, politics, public culture, civil rights, and the government. The comments I’ve received have run the entire spectrum from positive feedback to insults to threats. I’ve had trolls follow me from one blog to another, just to continue to threaten me. I’ve been stalked online to the point where I stopped using my legal name, but I’m going back to it.

            [BTW, I don’t think being threatened is a sign of leadership, nor is agitation. I don’t understand why you repeatedly include such things, as if they are a badge of honor. I mention my experiences here because you’ve mentioned yours as if they’re unique. They’re not.]

            Marching in a demonstration is very different from leading a group in a Pride parade. First, I marched as part of my church, where I was it’s committee chair for the entire event (Pride isn’t just a parade). Second, I marched in the parade at the head of our church’s group, being one of only six holding our banner that said, “God is OUT and PROUD.” Third, I did so in front of media cameras knowing I was not out at work, and my job was not protected by civil rights laws as government agencies often are exempt from the laws they pass for others. It was considered a “political” event, for which I could be fired for merely attending, much less help organize and lead.

            It’s apparent that we have different definitions of leadership. I think leadership involves inspiring others, and being ethical, and being a magnet that attracts people, and helping provide a clear vision and mission that the whole group has invested in, and being creative and innovative, and putting out fires to help keep the group together, and getting to know each member and their skills and abilities in order to know how they can best contribute, and investing who I am in what I believe. These are the traits that worked for me as the Administrator of a 150 member church, and as a Civil Engineering Tech Supervisor. I do believe both of those were specifically leadership positions.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I did not say being threatened is a sign of leadership. I only gave it as an example because that seemed to be what you were implying. I referred to being a participant, not a leader.

            I wish I had not mentioned it, as I have no desire to share as much of my personal life, trials and tribulations as you do. I don’t find it at all inspiring, but perhaps some do.

            We’re back to personalities and off subject as usual, so I think I’m done here.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I think talking about leadership is absolutely “on subject.” And the one comment I made about you, personally, I put in brackets and provided an explanation.

            The entire rest of my comment was about clarifying my experiences with leadership because you wrote them off as merely “participating,” which I do more than. I wasn’t sharing about any “trials and tribulations,” and don’t understand why you see it that way when I was clear about the topic. I think you have a negative bias about anything personal I share.

            You certainly have the right to share as little or as much of your personal life as you see fit, just as everyone else here does. And I have the right to not take anything you say about leadership seriously as I’ve not heard you share that you’ve experienced being a leader yourself.

          • Patrick Gannon

            ” I’ve not heard you share that you’ve experienced being a leader yourself.”

            Sorry, I didn’t realize we were competing to see who was the best leader. I’ll pass.

            We have different ideas about what leadership entails. One characteristic I look for in a leader is a reluctance to tout one’s accomplishments. Usually when I do it, I wish I hadn’t.

            The ‘trials and tribulations’ comment was general, and not specific to this thread. Perhaps I do have a negative bias about the personal things you share. When it comes to all those stories of yours, I sure would like an opportunity to hear the other side… speaking ill of people, bosses, even family, who aren’t available to defend themselves, is not something I consider to be leadership – but to each his/her own.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I wasn’t competing. I was explaining. I don’t understand why you take everything I say in my replies to you as competition. That’s not my intent at all.

            Sharing that one has experience relevant to the topic being discussed isn’t “tout[ing] one’s accomplishments,” but rather providing evidence that one has actual experience and therefore isn’t just making speculative comments from the sidelines. I place more credence on the opinions and thoughts shared by those who have actually experienced what they’re talking about. Most people do.

            “Perhaps I do have a negative bias about the personal things you share. When it comes to all those stories of yours, I sure would like an opportunity to hear the other side… speaking ill of people, bosses, even family, who aren’t available to defend themselves, is not something I consider to be leadership – but to each his/her own.”

            Seriously?!?? You believe that I use the sharing of my personal history as an opportunity to “speak ill of people?” Wow, are you way off base.

            I share what I do because I’m hoping to add to the conversation; because there are issues I believe need to be discussed openly and honestly to help change the social stigmas attached to them; because I’ve been told time and again (and now believe) that I inspire people; and because I’m an authentic individual. Period. Anything else you read into it is on you, not me.

  • Raphael

    Can humanity truly live without an enemy? Can it unite and understand its common interests and its reality of non-separation without uniting against something else?

    You probably all have heard the saying “You and I against the world”. Or the latest “United we stand” (meaning we stand against something). Or “A united people cannot be defeated” (by an adversary). This is a very common worldview…it appears that no matter how wide our “tribe” becomes, as wide as a nation or even a group of nations, people still need to face an adversary in order to feel unity and cohesion.

    This is I think a question that cannot be so easily answered, if you take some time to think about it. In theory, humanity should be able to live in peace. Nothing, actually, should be easier and more effortless than peace. It should be as easy as breathing. But can it be?

    Paraphrasing and tweaking a sentence from the book The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot (without loosing the general meaning): are humans mature enough or do they have enough control over their emotions, attitudes and beliefs to be able to deal with the monsters their psyches would create for themselves in a peaceful world that is freed from difficulties and suffering?

    What would they do with their own negativity, which religious people project outside of themselves and personify with the myth of a devil or of demons?

    This difficulty with owning, resolving and releasing inner negativity is something every spiritual seeker must face, sooner or later…and many have great difficulties with it. It is sometimes called “The dark journey of the soul”, and for good reasons. Joseph Campbell called it “The hero’s journey”. Could all of humanity come to term with this?

    Or would they keep on needing an enemy, an adversary, and “evil” outside entity onto which to project their own inner demons, their primal fears, and which they could still blame for their unhappiness and suffering?

    Do you know what would be the fastest way to absolutely terrify a person? It would be to take away all of the outer “sources” of their suffering instantly….because they then, still feeling miserable and unhappy, would have to come to the very difficult and frightening realization that the actual source of their suffering is within them, as is the door to their liberation.

    Could all of humanity do this?

    • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

      Very interesting question. I would say for me, it may happen when a majority wake uP.

      As for me, I’m trying to re frame and visualize that we have a wise government, wise people, wise society. That’s challenging to do, but it’s what I believe is the start up energy to bring it about. It will take more than just my engaging in this but it’s a start in the right direction.

      In order for things to change I practice seeing things as I’d like, not as they are to instigate the change I desire. This does not mean I ignore what is going on, it means I’m working, playing visualizing a better vision to take hold.

    • Sam

      I think this question is easily answered. Can humanity truly live without an enemy? Yes.

      “are humans mature enough or do they have enough control over their emotions, attitudes and beliefs to be able to deal with the monsters their psyches would create for themselves in a peaceful world that is freed from difficulties and suffering?”

      Difficulties are not an enemy, but a friend. “Love your enemies”. If humans aren’t mature enough, they will be. It’s a process.

      “What would they do with their own negativity, which religious people project outside of themselves and personify with the myth of a devil or of demons?”

      They grow out of it, of course.

      “Could all of humanity do this in the short time we have before we destroy everything?”

      Absolutely. There is no end to second chances. By stumbling, we learn how to walk.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Raphael,

      I think you make an interesting point. (Well, more than one.) Living in fear of what is inside oneself and being unwilling to take that “dark journey” is what drives some people to create “others” or “enemies” to take the focus off of themselves.

      My question is, where did the fear of knowing oneself come from? How did human beings reach the point where we have less fear about annihilation than we do about introspection? (That’s an honest inquiry, not just a rhetorical question.)

      At some point, we decided that introspection was not a good thing. That to know ourselves was bad. Maybe part of it came from the “original sin” or “fallen man” stories. Maybe part of it came from the guilt-driven catholicism that led Christianity. I’m really not sure, and I’ve been trying to figure it out.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Raphael

        Very good question Annie!….Very well put too…I will get back to you on this (I worked all night and need to sleep a bit). Later…

      • Raphael

        I am back…Yes I totally agree with you, most people would rather kill or die (annihilation) needlessly than look within and own and heal their own inner demons.

        I think that as for everything there are many reasons. Many people are not self aware, they are not in touch with themselves, and they genuinely believe that the problems are outside of them and that they are total victims. Even people who do therapy poorly end up thinking that therapy consists of blaming someone, rather than feeling and healing one’s own pain.

        Another reason might be religious and have to do with the concept of “sin” and also of a “devil”…who is said to be lurking everywhere, so that inner voice that attempts to guide you towards self-knowledge might not be your own after all, according to this dogma!

        There is also the psychiatric establishment, particularly the Freudians, who believe that great danger lurks within the unconscious and that it is best to keep one’s psychological defenses very strong, because according to them it would be a great mistake to open Pandora’s box.

        And then there is the simple fact that self-knowledge, self introspection and acknowledging, feeling and releasing one’s own pain, one’s own trauma, exploring one’s own devastated emotional landscape takes tremendous honesty and courage, and that most people would rather overwork, drink, take illegal drugs, pop an opioid or pursue any other compulsive means of becoming numb than feel anything uncomfortable at all.

        • Jethro

          Best Answer: “they genuinely believe that the problems are outside of them and that they are total victims.”

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Raphael,

          I’m sure you’re right—that there are many, and sometimes multiple, reasons to avoid introspection. I’ve happened upon a therapist who wanted to play the blame game when I was much younger. I was, at that point in my life, quite willing to go there. But other than releasing some anger, I didn’t gain much else. She didn’t last long because we soon ran out of people to blame (none of them being me).

          I remember (I think correctly) a line from some prose I wrote about a turning point I reached just before entering the therapy I was ready for:

          I had been screaming,
          “It’s not my fault! They did this to me!
          I’m not responsible for what it’s done to me!”
          Suddenly a sword of truth sliced through my words,
          Rearranging them, and I finally understood:
          “It’s not my fault they did this to me. I’m not responsible for it.
          But, I am responsible for how I allow it to affect me now.”

          I hadn’t thought about the devilish angle. Maybe that’s because I was told I was the devil’s spawn. For me, before I gave up on Catholicism, I was certain I would end up in Hell, damned for eternity because I hated rather than honored my father. I wanted him dead, and in Catholicism a thought is as bad as the deed itself, so I was convicted in and by my own mind. I’m grateful for having gotten away from all that.

          Yeah, unfortunately I also ran into a couple of Freudians along the way. Sickos, if you ask me. They wanted to delve into what I’d been through—incest, torture and brainwashing—and try to fit it into Freud’s obsession with sex within the framework of the father-daughter relationship. They saw incest as sex, where what it truly is has nothing at all to do with sex. It’s about power and violence and control. I understood that before my very first session—ever. One session with each was enough.

          I agree that it takes honesty and courage to explore our innermost thoughts and heal our innermost woundedness. I guess I just always assumed there was a better “me” that would show up on the other side of therapy that would have a less challenging life. But, I was wrong. I instead learned that I have never been anything less than the innocent I was at birth and didn’t need to be a “better” me. I needed someone to point that out to me, because I felt very much less than—less than who others expected me to be, less than a dutiful daughter to either of my parents, less than everyone else in my childhood home, sometimes even less than human. Yet, there I was, all along, hidden amongst the muck and mire. And I found I was even more than what I thought I’d been, not in spite of but because of what I’d experienced. Imagine that. ;o)

          We have become, at least in large part, a society of avoidance, haven’t we? Avoiding the inconveniences of nature in favor of our favorite armchair; avoiding responsibility for our government’s actions even though it’s we who voted our legislators into office, or haven’t voted them out; avoiding reality by conveniently being brain-snatched by the latest psychodrama on the TV; avoiding each other out in public by staying glued to our smartphones; avoiding emotional pain (the kind from a wound) by taking a pill our doctor tells us will work for our “condition,” when the only “condition” we have is “Reality Avoidance,” which I don’t believe is in the DSM-V. (That’s not to say that there aren’t mental health issues where the symptoms can be greatly relieved with medications. I’m on some that do that for me.)

          I’m just wondering out loud now… Is there a way to quickly snap out of “Reality Avoidance” in order to hasten a Spiritual awakening? I mean, besides the utter devastation of the planet that’s supporting our physical lives or the threat of nuclear warfare that could kill billions, because those obviously aren’t working. I reached a “bottom” where I knew if I didn’t change, I would die. Does everyone have to reach that kind of a “bottom” in their own personal lives, or do you think there’s anything else that might work on a larger scale, or more quickly?

          I suppose I still don’t understand the place people are in who would rather die than heal. When it came to my own “change or die” clarity, my survival instincts kicked in and I knew I wanted to live. Not to exist or survive, but to live and thrive. Even not being convinced it was possisble for me to do that, I still tried.

          I guess it’s a combo platter. Inheriting a bit of our parent’s quirks, we set out to “fit in” rather than to be our outstanding selves. It starts in childhood, especially in the public schools that kill most of our sense of individuality and quash our creativity. “Fitting in” at work is important, too, so we keep our social lives separate from our work lives, just to be safe. We learn to wear different masks to face the different areas in our lives, not even considering that to not wear a mask is the goal. To be ourselves, wherever we find ourselves, in whatever situation.

          I’m rambling… And coming to no conclusions other than what I shared in my original post. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          • Kristen

            Hi Annie,
            Something interesting I read years ago online. It was about the dark side of reincarnation, with one person idetifying that ‘demons or evil entities’ reincarnated here know exactly who and what they are, and that their favourite job of choice is psychiatry and chkldhood regression for victims of abuse. SHE said they push and push to hear the worst stories of abuse, especially sexual, its porn for them. Then finished her long thread stating people would never visit a therapist again if they knew how they talked and laughed about it all, sharing stories.
            How sick is that?..Id love to think she was talking crock, but unfortunately it does seem to fit a pattern in SOME psychiatry. They like hypnosis as well apparently.
            Sickos! No other word for it.
            xx

  • Jethro

    Our holy books state that something bad will happen. We are constantly being told these are the end times. We live with the expectation that world war 3 will occur at any given second, we are told that it will include war, unrest, evil, just before we are swept up by the hand of God, as long as we were good little boys and girls. The entity known as the devil will be set free to rule the earth. Holy books say to be prepared, and even the followers of the holy books will not be spared the discomfort of this time, which has created fear across the globe of what has been promised in said books for said followers. That fear is causing people to prepare for a war, to be hyper vigilant to any world action which is considered a sign, to gather necessary materials and knowledge to survive that which “might” happen, and most likely “will happen” because it’s accepted that it will.

    Only 3 things can be done to prepare for such an event. 1. Collecting food and necessities required for the human body to survive. 2. Collecting weapons and preparing to kill other human beings in defense. For some, to kill those who have collected needs and take their stuff. 3. Do nothing at all. Each one of these preparations involves thoughts that require taking the lives of other human beings. Even those who do nothing say they will defend what little they have if necessary even if that includes killing.
    A lot of people are collecting weapons, more than they can possibly carry if they would need to travel. With what could only be considered a hobby at the moment, collecting weapons still carries the thought that those weapons will be used to harm others. A very poor mentality for those who claim to be God fearing Christians, and I have heard many stories from many people fearing the government who hold the same idea. Forcing themselves daily to think about the possibility of killing another human. This same poor mentality creates a cheering section for the poor behaviors of our governments who is looking for cheers. It is this poor mentality, created by man, with instructions from our holy books, that is worth mentioning as a cause for why our world is thinking about each other on a global level the way it is. Our governments go to war because they have prepared to do so.

    Fear of war is the cause for preparation for war and being prepared to kill is the reason we do it. A shocking amount of people on earth (our neighbors) are preparing to have to kill their neighbors! When humans feel prepared for something, it’s inevitable that at some point, some will say, “ok, I’m ready, let’s do this!”

    I’m not perfect by any means, but I remind people I talk to who collect weapons for defense, when talking about these promised times, that the purpose is not to kill, but to live and help others live. If preparing for government collapse or the coming of your deity, prepare to preserve life, not take it. Learn to cook, not kill. Learn what the earth has to offer and nurture it, not destroy it. Then understand most of all what you can offer, it is the purpose of life… isn’t it? To offer ourselves to living?

    • Stephen mills

      Is this really how most American think Jethro ? Seriously ! or is it just the evangelical Christian right that make up what % of the population ? I read recently that a high percentage of Americans think that organised religion is one of the main problems that they faced in living harmoniously .

      Nationalism is another feature of separateness and human induced suffering . The right to bare arms must be annulled ..unless of course you still want to live in the wild west with Calvinism .

      • Raphael

        American culture is rather toxic at the moment, having been damaged by the likes of Alex Jones and other popular extremists (they are popular in rural America).
        In the place where I live (not much longer hopefully), I never heard gunfire in 17 years…now people (including neighbors) are shooting their guns day and night (illegally).
        Rural America is where the support for Trump and his extremist policies originate, and don’t underestimate the power of the evangelicals, who are currently represented by Mike Pence at the highest government level. The Christian right is now very militant, and politically more involved than ever before.
        All of these people are extremist and dangerous…paranoid and hysterical. It is as though mental illness has spread over the land…and the only safe place is the Indian reservation ha ha…

        • Kristen

          Hey,
          Are you personally concerned about any so called WWIII, attacks on America, nuclear arms being used anywhere…or anything at all? Other than America starting another false war, Iran this time.
          You’re the one that seems to do tbe reasearch, just curious.
          xx

          • Raphael

            I am not personally concerned about anything because I was given a vision about the future…I know what will happen, if the vision is correct, and I believe it is, because of its source, which is a very “high” source (an entity that was never incarnated).

            I haven’t looked or asked about details…such as wars, global environmental disasters, economic collapses, etc…because it will be a mix anyway, many different events as opposed to just one thing.

            There is one thing I can tel you for certain: at first wars will continue…but environmental disasters will be so devastating globally at some point that all nations will literally go bankrupt dealing with them and will no longer be able to wage any wars, for lack of funds and resources.

            My vision is not something anyone here or anywhere else would want to hear about, because it would frighten most people to death…it will be as dark as you can imagine and beyond, and there will not be a single person that will feel safe or untouched by the coming challenges. It will essentially amount to a global disintegration of our world, on every level. Even those believers who have “faith” will loose their faith. The hopelessness and despair will at some point be global and as near absolute as you can possibly get without spiritual annihilation…

            On the other side of this very intense global drama, however, there will be an incredible transformation, you could call it instant global enlightenment…and a renewed world. A “divine” world, so to speak…with a lot of spiritual light (some would call it “christ consciousness”…but global). Possibly in a new, lighter dimension? As I said I do not have the details, only the blueprint and meaning of these events. I am not interested in details, only in meaning. There are many other things I could say, but this is not the place, there are too many interferences, and this vision is not up for pointless debate with certain individuals who choose to keep their noses at ground level.

            Everything that happens in the physical world is an experience in consciousness. Once we remember this we need not panic…everything is a “mind trip”, something we create mentally and manifest physically as experience, individually or collectively or both.

            The experiences are what matters…according to my understanding the physical is just feedback. It is great feedback, it can be beautiful, but it is not the only form of feedback that exists in the universe.

            I hope I did not scare you…the timeframe for all of this to happen is half a circle…whatever this represents, symbolically (starting in 1994, the year of my vision).

            Sweet dreams ha ha ha…

          • Sam

            “I know what will happen, if the vision is correct, and I believe it is, because of its source, which is a very “high” source”.

            The next future is always in the balance, and not something determined. A vision of “doom”, no matter the source, can only be a warning, regarding one possibility and outcome. Not in any way meant to be embraced, and turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy, but exactly the opposite, to make sure it never happens.

            “everything is a “mind trip”, something we create mentally and manifest physically as experience” […] “The experiences are what matters…according to my understanding the physical is just feedback.”

            Quite right :)

          • Kristen

            Howdy,
            I think the same, not scared at all, we need a ‘start over’.
            Its all just catalysts, we generally mistake catalysts for the ‘real thing’, and thats all prophecised about.
            Working with Kabbalah, symbology and prophecies, ALL prophecies, they all tell the same story. Even Y’shuas/Jesus prophecies start huge changes with quakes and wars within countries. Unfortunately people know this and are trying to bring things on manually, via reincarnation paths, presumably not consciously.
            Half circle works with it all being catalysts, just half of what will happen.
            The climate change story in scripture is interesting.
            Genesis in the beginning states ‘while the Earth endures there will be four seasons. Cold, hot, a season for planting and a season for sowing’. Then humans were given all the plants and animals, ownership. Then it states ‘Earth will always be in human hands’. Later in scripture it again uses the same word endurance stating ‘while the Earth endures Gods Laws will be in place’. So many think climate change is deliberate to oust God. Not bringing religion into it, just interesting.
            Im over climate change already!!
            Better do some work, make some $$$$ to hoard a stash!!
            Xx

          • Jethro

            Kristen, Maybe you can help with dream interpretation. I have not been remembering dreams I’ve had for some time, but I have had two that I remember and really stand out… woke me up.
            A few months ago, I dreamed I was witnessing missile strikes in the distance and they kept getting closer, debris began falling from the sky. I woke up after getting everyone under a carport.
            Last night, I dreamed I was looking at a twister with other small twisters around it and I didn’t feel threatened. Then people started falling from the sky around it, then they began dropping all around, once again leaving us running for cover. It was graphic compound fractures and broken bodies lying on the ground. Both times I was in the suburbs of a highly populated place. Strange because I live in a place of several small communities. I know you have studied dreams so I’m asking you.

          • Kristen

            Hi ya,
            Both can be deeply personal, or general, anything from the sky can be both as they will represent a personal message for you, or an awareness or fear of things going on in the world in general. Anything coming down on you will always mean ‘something from above’. Symbology is real in our lives 24/7 not just dreams, its how our lives are manages from above so you can actually look up anything at all in your life that you have, want or hate, especially things we are given. Just being a plumber has huge symbolic meaning. Looking things up is a great psychology or counselling tool, and it will never lie. Best website is ‘dream moods’ and best books are Pamela J Ball. Physical things in our lives are 100% accurate to look up, whereas dreams can be a message, something subconscious, from our brains or something we are picking up in the atmosphere. A clue is if you see youself 3rd person with no emotions its a message, if you ‘are or feel like you’ its from you. The messages or ones from above will often portray you behaving or speaking a bit different to how you would, ‘dream weavers’ get things wrong a lot!

            Missiles are always one of the few things that we cant control, so will always mean that…often just a sign of stress as things keep getting ‘fired at you’. So as a group of people it means something beyond their control, and all you personally can do is try to partiall protect them with something with not much more use than an umbrella, but the point is that you are trying, seeing you need to be the protector in that circumstance. It could just be from your brain, an extension of thinking and writing in here about war etc, and a realisation you can only do so much.

            Twisters/tornadoes are huge emotion, outbursts, anger, lashing out, feeling overwhelmed (I looked that up), but those emotions are out of control and destructive. They could all represent people in your life, but I would guess are something from above, like you chats about preppers. People falling is theyve lost control, social and emotional structures falling apart, with the population representing the depths of it…suburbs mean the general ‘normal’ population, isolated from cities which mean insane destruction, and rural that means manageble destruction. Limbs also mean social structures, bones generally do, and our strength. Legs are a journey, what people are doing or where they are heading, so broken legs is ‘stopping you in your tracks, bringing you down to your knees, feeling like you’ve been kneecapped’ etc. If you were there and unscathed you were probably putting in the effort to be able to stay strong and will come out of whatever it is unscathed. Arms give and receive. Breakages will often also mean there is a weakness in plans or society so its incredibly easy to destroy…especially family groups. It could all be about your daughters family, or could be similar to what Raphael talks about below. Or broken bodies can be multiple deaths which wont be personal, dreams just show battered bodies instead of dead ones so as to not frighten people, but a broken battered body from above is judgements, and a ‘hiding’, perhaps from Mother Nature.
            There is a prophesy in scripture stating ‘its time to destroy those whom destroy the Earth’ that has to refer to climate change (see what I said to Raphael below), so it could be about that.
            The point from both is for you to be prepared for anything to be fired at you, and what you are heading into wont be pretty, but if shown through a dream, then there is always a bit of peace of mind that those above are aware of it, and with you, or that you are aware of it on some level so can work with it until it just has to happen eventually.
            Take care,
            xx

          • Jethro

            Kristen, Thanks for the reply.

      • Jethro

        Did I say Americans or even most of Americans… I was referring to some people I have talked to, who are Americans to the best of my knowledge, I’m in America so it stands to reason. No not every American, I don’t know that many people, but you can surf the net for prepper sites and find out where they are located. I’d say it’s common across the globe to prepare for dangerous times if it’s believed dangerous time are coming, but….
        “Survivalism is a primarily American movement of individuals or groups (called survivalists or preppers) who are actively preparing for emergencies, including possible disruptions in social or political order, on scales from local to international. Survivalists often acquire emergency medical and self-defense training, stockpile food and water, prepare to become self-sufficient, and build structures (e.g., survival retreats or underground shelters) that may help them survive a catastrophe.” -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivalism
        I’m afraid I don’t have any experience outside of the American border, but I see Raphael has posted his experience and I trust that to be true. I also believe Americans are very smug, not all, but that’s my general thought. As Raphael states, people have gone insane. I almost joined them. When I talk to people in there homes, they are normal everyday people who are worried, just worried. Add to that an imaginary toughness and it gets to be a laughable conversation. Laughter and pity occurs in the car. “Some” Christians or any religious extremist can hinder peace, the very peace they preach should be the desire of all humans. It’s why I have moved away from it. I’m tired of listening to the hatred. American culture is not the only toxic culture at the moment, I’ve watched the news. I’ll add that some of the people I have mentioned above are very kind hearted loving people. They are just afraid of all the negative information they are receiving. I also live in rural America, people are making fun of and complaining about trump as much as our friends and family in California, about 5 to 7 hours south from Raphael. Trump is not a popular person in my rural area.

        I am American, but I have chosen to just be human. It doesn’t matter to me where someone is from, I will respect every human as a human until that respect has been torn away. I have repaired homes for every nationality in America and enjoyed the company of those who didn’t even speak my language, it created frustration and laughter and friendship. Humans are humans regardless and there are kind and unkind humans and really that’s the only two kinds of human. A persons origin has nothing to do with it, just their experiences. Acceptance creates acceptance. I am sure I’m not the only person in America that understands that.

        Firearms… I have nothing against people owning guns anywhere in the world. they can be useful tools, not just killing. In the wild west, cowboys used guns as noise makers mostly. Blanks would have worked well. But it’s not just Americans who have used guns for killing. You wouldn’t hand a straight razor to a six month old, you don’t put a gun in the hands of an idiot. The difference is, you can see that a person is six months old at a glance, it could take time to recognize who the idiots are. The problem is by the time we find out who the idiots are, the damage is done.
        Just go backwards in time and you will see how many other weapons that will need to be removed as well. Do we allow bows and arrows? swords? Spears? I could say cars are too violent to be kept as well. Remove weapons and cars…. idiots will be walking around looking for a fist fight. The only way I will support removal of guns is if the governments are willing to give theirs up too. I realized years ago I would never shoot another human being, I put away the gun I carried and ultimately sold them all, that was 20+ years ago. I recently inherited a few that have sentimental value going back nearly 100 years. But bartering material is all they may be at some point.

    • Raphael

      American culture is unique…uniquely rooted in fear. I have lived in 3 different countries, long enough to become a citizen in each one, so I have a different perspective than most Americans. There is something very neurotic and unstable about America…probably rooted in its violent and dishonorable past.

      • Jethro

        Americans are ignorant to the reality of actually being as tough as they think they are. Most are apt to live in a fantasy world. And that’s not just the rural people. I live in a rural area and your information does not match my experience. Yes there are some real backwards country f… folks here, but most of them have been smart enough to see he’s an ego driven narcissistic idiot, we are about as rural as it gets too.

        • Raphael

          All US Presidents are little more than puppets. They are a distraction…
          Regarding North Korea, China offered to negotiate between North Korea and the US. These were the terms: the US and South Korea would end their military exercises near the northern border, and North Korea would end its nuclear weapons program. Guess who refused the deal? President Obama. Trump is following the same agenda…he is just more blatant and “in your face” about it, being a bit less sophisticated (to say the least).

        • Raphael

          Where I live, it is 50/50, for and against Trump.

          The problem with politics is that people are very tribal…they shut down all critical thinking and become loyal to their “team” and their “leader” no matter what. Both the so-called left (actually center-right) and the right act this way. That’s why there cannot be any political resolution, as decisions are no longer based on reason but on blind loyalty.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Many, many moons ago, I lived in Sonoma County for about five years. When it was rural. Loved the nature, but everyone there was “escaping” from populated areas so not very friendly. Give the ocean and the cliffs and the redwoods and the mountains my love… I miss them!

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Raphael

            Thanks Annie, yes Sonoma county is just south of where I am…it’s very touristic now, and expensive.

  • Spiritual_Annie

    It’s been my experience that changing my own idea about myself and changing my own way of being in the world is not the Herculean challenge it’s made out to be. I’ve also found it to be personally freeing. And the changes I’ve been through have led me to understand that one can change any behavior, even if it’s ingrained or evolved into us, because we have the ability to assess whether it serves us or not, then determine what changes, if any, will serve us better.

    Think about how many times we’ve all changed in our lives, even after becoming adults. Anyone who has started a new living arrangement with someone has probably had to change some of their thoughts, words and actions to adjust to their housemate. Anyone who has started a new job has likely had to change some of their thoughts, words and actions to adjust to their new working environment. Anyone who has moved from one area to another has presumably had to change their thoughts, words and actions to adjust to their new community.

    Life is a process involving constant change. We are actually quite adept at changing. Even things that are truly difficult, like traumatic childhoods or being involved in war or having a loved one pass over or questioning our core values, aren’t impossible because we know how to change. What’s different here, in this column, is that we’re only being asked to change two things: change the ideas that we spread, and change the way that we spread them.

    It’s easy to share on Social Media that little Suzie had her fifth birthday. It’s a little harder to share that we’re not doing as well as we’d like. And it’s harder still to share what it is we believe in our hearts and souls about ourselves, humanity and the future. But I think when we think about it, we make it out in our minds to be harder than it is to actually do. A lot of times, all it takes is a deep breath, and then just doing it.

    How do we change how we spread ideas? Maybe after we share about little Suzie’s birthday party, we share what it means to us to have a family, and how grateful we are for our own. Maybe, while talking with a friend, we can explain why we never use plastic bags at the grocery store. Maybe while with a group of buddies and the subject of politics comes up, we make sure that our own focus in the conversation is on how to achieve peace, or how we can “love thy neighbor” by supporting programs that help care for those who can’t care for themselves.

    Maybe, because the ideas are so important to us, we do something entirely new. There are so many ways we can spread ideas with technology. We can start to write a blog. We can write articles that are published on platforms like Medium. We can start sharing our ideas on our Facebook pages. We can comment more often, rather than just “liking” or “retweeting” something. When we comment, we can raise the bar of the conversation by not taunting or insulting, but by explaining our position.

    Written media certainly isn’t the only option. Anyone can make a podcast, or start a YouTube channel. Anyone can set up a Facebook group or page, inviting people to listen to a live stream event, discussing it during or afterwards. Technology provides so many different, creative ways for us to express ourselves. Or if you don’t want to start something up yourself, there are plenty of organizations one can join who support your ideas.

    Local action can also have a lot of meaning. Again, there may be groups to join who support your ideas. If not, we can choose to start one. Or we can, if we believe it’s in the interest of all, support local companies and farmers when we’re able. We can get involved in local politics, ensuring that we play our part in expressing our beliefs, not just in the political system, but it’s purpose. And, most locally, we can change how we are in our families. We can teach our children the ideas of cooperation, peace, nonviolence and unconditional love.

    I think, from having been here for a while now, there are several of us who have been “going first” for some time. What I hope, by doing my own part in my own “sphere of influence,” is that I’ll inspire more people to do it. To think, say and be who they are, authentically, publicly, and often.

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

  • Raphael

    I thought this should be shared, from JVP:

    GETTING ORGANIZED IN THE WAKE OF CHARLOTTESVILLE
    14 AUGUST 2017 PRESS RELEASE

    Jewish Voice for Peace stands unequivocally and emphatically against the white supremacy, antisemitism and fascism on display in Charlottesville this weekend. We join the voices of mourning for Heather Heyer, who was murdered by one of the white supremacist marchers, and for the full recovery of all those injured and traumatized by Saturday’s events.

    The events in Charlottesville this weekend showed us the violence of white supremacy at its most visceral and blatant. We must work to ensure that our sadness and outrage at what happened in Charlottesville this weekend fuels us to continue the work to fight the less visible of its violent manifestations that harm communities of color everyday.

    White supremacy has been ever-present in the history of the United States. The overt pronouncements of antisemitism, nazism, and anti-Black racism at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville were an appalling display of the dangerous ideologies emboldened by the Trump presidency. The response of the local and federal government–from the police who allowed armed and avowed white supremacists to march unimpeded, to the President of the United States, who equated those fighting white supremacy with those promoting it–remind us that we must always rely on our people and our movements to ensure safety for all people. We must confront and challenge state-sponsored and state-tolerated violence at every turn. We must get organized.

    We honor and are grateful for all those who stood up so bravely against the attempt to terrorize Black people, Jews, and communities of color in Charlottesville. As a multiracial Jewish organization, we are more committed today than ever to help build the numbers of people standing up and fighting back. We will keep fighting antisemitism, white supremacy and Islamophobia. We will show up for each other wherever we need to be.

    To those in our community who are feeling fear we say to you: you are not alone. We are with you, we are here for you. We have each other and need each other.

    To those in our community who are feeling despair, we say to you: We are so much bigger, so much stronger, so much more ready and able to build the just world we need.

    To those in our community who feel rage, we say to you: let this lead you into the streets, into your power, into communities that will swell with love, commitment, resiliency, and a vision of a world redeemed.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Love the response to the violence, the failures of police, and the wholly inadequate responses from the government. Thanks for posting it as it’s inspirational.

      When the neo-nazis applied for a permit to hold a rally in the St.Louis County seat of the City of Clayton, both the city and the county tried hard to find a reason not to issue the permit, but felt that it would be discriminatory not to. So, they got their permit and held their rally. But, they were outsmarted by the county. Instead of counter-protesting and confrontation, the County Council declared the following day “Unity Day” and held a ridiculously larger and more peaceful rally, which also got much more media attention.

      I prefer that kind of counteraction to confrontation. But, if it must happen that a counter-protest is called for, I think the Angels who counter-protested the homophobic Fred Phelps and his church (famous for showing up at the funerals of gays with “God Hates Fags” signs) did it very well. The Angels made very large wings from bedsheets that blocked the view of the protesters, and stood facing the protesters, smiling and not arguing.

      What made it so successful was that, part of being in the Angel network, one agreed to no verbal or physical confrontations or violence. We took a friendly, open stance, understanding that we would be taunted, but agreed we would only respond with kindness. Of course, we could have argued about bible verses and gotten angry at the taunts. It was a decision made beforehand about who we chose to be in the face of an ugly protest. And, after the mourners were inside, the protesters would get bored and would sometimes strike up real, meaningful converstions. I even showed one where our bathroom was once when she needed it–after she got up the courage to ask.

      I’m not sure how to translate either of those experiences to the kinds of actions going on lately. With Clayton, someone started thinking “outside the box” when the permit was filed for, because Unity Day was hugely advertised and attended. (It became an annual celebration.) There was a lot of lead time. But back then, the neo-nazis weren’t carrying weapons, either. The Angels were well-organized in advance, keeping tabs on Fred Phelps and so knew when he’d be where, and the top of the telephone chain would make the first call as soon as they knew he was coming to town. Being organized and committing to nonviolence is a start. Opposition rallies are an option to avoid confrontation. But I’m not sure some want to avoid a confrontation, and I’m not sure what to do about that. And parts of our society is egging it on, and I’m not sure what to do about that, either.

      As for the proposed law: Wow. Legalizing murder. I mean, I could “feel threatened” by a protester who’s 6’6″ and bulked up while he’s just standing there. Do I get to murder him with my vehicle just because he’s holding a protest sign?

      When did “feeling threatened” become equal to actually being threatened? When did it change from someone performing a criminal act to someone “feeling” like a potential victim?

      And, that’s just one more in the “plus” column for those who’d like to outlaw any protests at all.

      Dark, indeed.

      These are the reasons I’ve been focusing on local politics, with some exceptions. Laws like these–discriminatory, outlandish, ignorant–are passed on a city, county or state-wide basis all over the country. Once one passes, unchallenged by the courts, they spread like wildfire.

      This is just one more reason why it’s so important when one courageous person–a trans teen who wants to use their gender identity bathroom, a woman sexually harassed by a celebrity, the terrified mother of black teen boys old enough to drive, an Elder of a Native American tribe fighting to protect their water–speaks out, because it can spark a movement.

      Anyone can be that spark. You can. I can. Anyone here can. But to do so, one has to step out of the shadows and speak out. I do, even though I’m an introvert with anxiety from PTSD.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Raphael

        Texas and Florida are also passing such bills…to immunize drivers who run over protesters, while the police is cheering (The New Mexico police union chief posted a Facebook meme “All Lives Splatter”, “nobody cares about your protest” with a cartoon of a vehicle hitting people and throwing them in the air…)

        • Spiritual_Annie

          I’m happy to report that, as of 5/7/17, both the Florida House and Senate versions of the bill died in committee.

          If you’re not aware, there’s an app called Countable that will keep track of what your zip code’s federal Rep and Senator is up to, will let you know every time they vote (if you opt in), and specific bills and issues can be “liked” so you get any news there is about them in Congress. For each bill or issue, the tap of a button lets you write to them on Social Media or send a letter by fax.

          For state legislative stuff, there’s an app for that, too. I haven’t downloaded it yet, but have used the web version. It does pretty much the same thing as Countable, but for your state Rep and Senator, bills and issues. The org’s name is Open States, and I’m sure it’s searchable in the app store.

          (Remember when we used to get newsprint all over our hands from actually reading the news?)

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          • Raphael

            Thanks for the info Annie! Very useful!

    • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

      If no protestors showed up, that would deflate white supremacists energy. To show up is to engage them. To let them yell to each other is their right. They can’t promote their message unless there is someone there to listen. Don’t give them that opportunity.

      It amazes me that people get so riled up, and add to the hatred energy when they should stay home and not engage them in this fashion.

      • Raphael

        From a Charlottesville ER nurse (By SquireForYou, Alternet):

        “It doesn’t help either that our community isn’t out from under the specter of the Nazis who visited us- there are vigils across the country for Charlottesville, but our own vigil was canceled because of a credible threat by white supremacists to invade it and take it over.

        Those of you who read my diaries here pre-rally know I had pushed for people to ignore the Nazis who invaded our community. They were here because we were a huge target for them; ranked the “happiest city in the United States”. Outspoken against the President and his policies. Very progressive…

        And ever since I became intimately acquainted with the “alt-right”…I knew what their goal was, plain and simple: terrorism. And terrorists don’t attack folks who are already afraid. They don’t attack anyone who isn’t a threat to them. Which made our community the perfect target for them- and since they were gathering from across the country, in numbers they would unlikely be able to easily come up with again, I had an awful feeling that violence would ensue.”

        When white supremacists, Nazis and others hate groups threaten a peaceful vigil, it goes beyond the scope of “counter protesting”. It actually indicates that these fringe groups are becoming dangerously emboldened and empowered by an extremist rightwing administration. This is a very dangerous trend which, to many observers, reminds them of Germany in the 1930’s.

        • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

          Certainly troubling, but we now have 24/7 communication and unless the military sides with them I’m less concerned. If they come to Milwaukee ever again, I’ll make my message known.

          By the way, policies and government, whether local and beyond are influenced by social media. Foxconn a huge billion dollar business is trying to set up in Wisconsin, the media was all open arms and filled with mellifluous accolades & celebration. This was what the media said at first, but social media and the democrats criticized the move as being dangerous for our environment and that Foxconn set up in other areas with disastrous results.

          Republicans are trying to ram shod this fast into action. The dems God bless them and social media has forced the media to show the other side and now it may be halted. But the republican majority may still try and pass it.

      • Patrick Gannon

        I agree. The best result would have been if nobody showed up to listen to them.

    • Jethro

      White Supremacist. Where’s the supremacy? Freedom of hate an American right? Sex is an American right but it’s against the law to go into public alone or as a crowd and have sex. Hatred and sex belong in the same place, someplace private, where nobody else can witness it.

      • Kristen

        Until they invented the internet!!!
        Xx

        • Jethro

          There are many things expressed and available to the publics eyes that don’t belong. The world has grown to accept things that shouldn’t even be known, let alone accepted. Children shouldn’t have to learn to deal with these confusing things that most adults can’t handle either. The radio was actually the first offender just telling some stories in the name of entertainment, then television put pictures to those stories, then the internet providing the worst side of everything. It’s no wonder everyone seems angry and on some drug. Freedom is a wonderful thing for sure, but some information shouldn’t be so free. Freedom of speech was demanded so that we could speak out about poor leadership. Poor leadership has allowed diseased thought to spread and continues to do so in the name of freedom.
          Sexual desire has spun out of control in the name of freedom to the point that laws had to be made to keep it concealed and out of the public eye, yet we see it and hear about it through public television, radio, and worse of all the internet. Hatred cannot be stopped I guess, but it needs to be limited in its advertisement. We would think common sense would allow for deciding these things but its all about “Rights”. It’s the right of the majority to demand some things be kept out of the reach of our children, and that should not mean having to do without something, like internet, television, or radio. So if its someone’s right to hear and view those damaging words and images, it should be our right to keep it from being seen without special permissions. It should require names and addresses as pass words. Gun manufacturers have been sued because someone got shot, tobacco companies sued because someone died from there product and so on, why are we not suing the origin of some of the diseased thoughts we witness daily… like racial hate organizations and porn sights for the crimes related to their exposure. Too Much Information!!!

          As I fall off of my high horse, where would the censorship stop. There’s just not enough common sense left in the world to make good decisions. Maybe censorship would eliminate radio, TV, and internet and the problem would solve itself in that way. People would go back to policing their own towns, talking to each other, and common sense would be restored. There’s no solution that won’t be argued by someone. There’s isn’t enough morality.

          • Patrick Gannon

            “As I fall off of my high horse, where would the censorship stop. ”

            Finally, the right question! You had me worried. I’m glad you came to your senses. With censorship, the cure is always worse than the disease.

            I think there’s another way to look at all this. We’re having a conversation that we pushed underground for quite some time. It’s probably a good thing that the issue has been dragged into the light of day to be debated and discussed. It’s healthy.

            The problem goes back quite a ways. Back in the day, in the south, there were rich white people and there were poor white and black people. There was no middle class. For poor whites, they could take refuge in feeling that “at least they weren’t black” (they would have used a different word). Over time, they’ve seen America’s attention turn to helping to integrate and help black people, and rightfully or not, they feel left behind. They suffered too, and like any group that suffers, they are looking for a scapegoat. They have an inferiority complex with regard to intellectual, middle and upper class white America, thus blacks, Jews and other select scapegoats give them a way to feel superior to someone, anyone… It’s actually pretty sad.

          • Kristen

            Really?
            New Zealand has never had a ‘class system’, women were voting, we had free education and healthcare from almost the beginning. And from the beginning Maori were given equal rights as ‘us’, no slavery or anything.
            Thats an odd concept for me to even process, inferiority and superiority. Perhaps thats why Americans seem to be obsessed with college etc. We just have high school, then University for those who need a degree, no college. I have had someone mention that South African Indians here are incredibly pushy and dominant because they are sort of left out in South Africa, or not really liked…perhaps thats the same thing.

            Glad you acknowledge there is a societal ‘disease’, that should have been nipped in the bud in the 80s when we saw it all coming. If only adults then had made a stand, starting with many musicians on MTV, and censorship laws that worked, being overturned in the name of freedom!
            Take care,
            k

          • Jethro

            “As I fall off of my high horse, where would the censorship stop. ”
            It’s funny my friend, I was thinking of you as I wrote that!! I’m not ignorant. I just have wishes. We all wish for the hatred to stop. All of us in this space anyway,

            The problem goes back quite a ways because hatred goes back quite a ways. Color of skin makes no person more or less human. America and its great melting pot has not figured that out. Not everyone anyways. Your probably right though, poor white people don’t feel they get as much and that causes jealousy. Everyone wants something for nothing. Black people who have nothing blame the white people for not giving them anything. it’s a vicious circle. I have been on top and then on bottom and I’m on top again. It has to do with how I think. Success depends on how we think about it. Not about how much money we have. As a business owner, you know that.

            Is everyone here self employed?

          • Kristen

            Yip, I am.

          • Jethro

            Yeah I know. Being a service provider means having many bosses too. I do get a little pleasure knowing I can fire the boss, and if the boss does fire me, I have another boss on the schedule lol. Freedom should never be the goal of any business owner… though, it would be nice at times.

          • Kristen

            Heck, Ive given myself 100 written warnings, wear jeans and ugg boots to work when its too cold to dress properly, waste time on here when I should be working and pinch cash out of the til, and still cant get the damn sack!

          • Jethro

            I know!!! I keep threatening myself with several days off without pay for a poor attitude. But NOOOO! I do have an addiction for stopping at thrift/antique shops a little too much. little bits of freedom Lol. I have been known to wear flip-flops on occasion.

          • Jethro

            Neale has posted a new conversation that I hope you reply to.

          • Raphael

            I have been self employed except for 3 short years after art school. Can’t even imagine having a boss…it’s against my religion.

          • Kristen

            Exactly, but I personally think the internet is the worst, it gives a platform for hate, porn and everything else. I still cant believe that in this world with so many rules and laws, its completely unmonitered, no rules or laws at all. The world was a better place when their true colours were kept private, rather than having a platform to show the world how ugly they are on the inside, and basically do whatever they want.
            Im just glad my kids are older now, I couldnt raise kids in the world now, Id need to take them somewhere safe and keep the world hidden from them, probably homeschooling….a parents hell. And thats really sad that the world has become unsuitable for kids.
            xx

          • Raphael

            This is actually a time period when everything is meant to come out to the surface. No more hidden stuff…hidden stuff cannot be healed.
            The world, all of humanity is having a global healing crisis…like a fever, from many infected wounds. The pus oozing from such wounds is very unpleasant, but the wounds are meant to be opened, to be made to bleed, in order to be cleansed and to heal. That’s the way of nature…
            The question is, will humanity choose to heal, or will it keep on relishing the on going feverish drama of infected, gangrenous wounds?

          • Kristen

            I understand that, and appreciate seeing peoples true colours, as scary as it is, but there are still children in this world, and animals, that should never be exposed to the pus filled ugly wounds os adults, or teens with no self respect for that matter, they are becoming the worst now.
            I dont think there will be any form of healing, most find it easier to close their eyes or put a pillow over their heads and pretend the world isnt as ugly as it is. I personally think the one thing that would bring on huge changes is a crazy virus pandemic, one of movie proportions, where the wealthy have to fight for food and meds like the poor do, people realise how unimportant their jobs are, learn the value of rubbish collectors, cant get gas so learn to depend on neighbours, workplaces are on shutdown including tv stations, there may be no electricity etc.
            Addicts will go completely nuts, and either detox or kill themselves, and entire societies will have to regroup and re kickstart themselves, as residents, doing it their way and all pitching in.
            Not implying its a good thing, just the only way I could see people changing, forced to.
            xx

          • Raphael

            I unfortunately agree…most of humanity does not have the wisdom or intelligence to change willingly. The catalysts will have to be a global, terrible crisis.

          • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

            “I think a year with just radio, no internet, social media or TV would change the world hugely.”

            Yikes you never heard of conservative talk radio in America? It’s why Trump is in the Whore house er I mean White House got in.

            But I do love radio I do listen Slacker radio (internet) and I do listen to NPR National Public radio.

          • Kristen

            Oops, I didnt think that one through, but at least teens and people in their 20s wouldnt be able to be so nasty, theyre a whole new ballgame coming through, perhaps an Asbergers pandemic coming through! Online anyway.
            I just listen to music, The Hits NZ, one we’re allowed to play in a ‘public place’…. my shop.
            I thought White House referred to the straight jackets in the asylum. Ours is called the Beehive, stinging people financially at every chance, about all they do!
            Take care,
            K

      • Raphael

        I am not sure whether it is healthier and safer for a culture to suppress or openly express hate, as long as hate remains (I wrote hate, not violence…violence shouldn’t be allowed).

        I would rather know who the sick people are, and what they think, than have them lurking in the shadows.

        • Jethro

          I’m with you in that frame of mind (sick people), but I really feel a need to let children be children. I wish that my kids were shocked at hate and violence period, not just shocked that some types of hate and violence are occurring close to home. Shocked at hatred altogether, not just certain kinds of hatred and the actions of the haters. Not considering that any part was normal because they seen the reports all their lives. None of it is right or normal. It was created and passed on like a belief in Santa Clause.
          (grunt)… Santa Clouse Good… Racial hatred Bad!

          I was a child of the 70’s, I remember there was one “black” family on our street (the first street of many). I didn’t see a black family. Two kids my age there were my friends, the grown-up white people were a little upset with me at times telling me I shouldn’t be hanging around with them. We shouldn’t be friends. Thank goodness my parents were not any of those grown ups. Turns out my father was raised in a “black” neighborhood and didn’t see color either. A Native American that spoke Ebonics lol. Everyone thought he was Mexican. We laugh a lot about his younger days stories. My mother was the daughter of Christian bigots but she was not diseased as my grandparents were. Still very much a non denominational Christian though. I can’t change everything!

          • Raphael

            One of my friends, a Pomo Indian, was raised in Oakland in a black neighborhood…to this day he is more black than Indian!

            Hatred however is not always directed towards people who are very different. The Catholics hated the Protestants, some tribal people in Africa fight and kill each other, and here conservatives and liberals hate each other. Hate is a very strange disease…difficult for me to understand.

            Some might say hate comes from fear…perhaps, but that would be fear of oneself, for what people hate most in others is what they abhor and reject and refuse to own about themselves. The adversary is always a perfect mirror…and this is the hardest lesson!

          • Sam

            “Hate is a very strange disease…difficult for me to understand.”

            Oh, I thought you understood it very well, by now. How you regularly lash out at society. It’s certainly not love. Be honest with yourself :)

    • Patrick Gannon

      “Did you know that North Dakota, North Carolina (and other Republican states) are trying to pass laws that would make it legal to run over a protester with your car, if you feel “threatened”….”

      Disagree. If protesters come after me and mine in my vehicle, with bats and bricks to break our windows and drag us out to be beat to bloody pulps, you can bet that I will stand on that accelerator and I don’t care what color, creed, religion or cause they may support. If there really is such a thing as a right, certainly “self defense” would fall under that umbrella. Such laws are not really required. We already have the right to self defense, but sometimes it helps to specify the conditions under which it becomes self defense.

      • Raphael

        With such barbaric, unAmerican, uncivilized laws, wholly supported by rightwing extremists of all stripes including Nazis, you can only expect the level of violence to increase, as some protesters will arm themselves with guns to stop someone from running over them and protect the innocent.

        You might have noticed that a vehicle is not a precise killing machine. Even if actually attacked and acting in panic or “self-defense”, a driver wouldn’t be able to target his attackers…he or she would hit and run over people who simply happen to be in the way. A protest is chaotic, and people are everywhere. Some might be violent, others are not, and people are all mixed.

        Some violent individuals in protests are actually agents provocateurs; undercover cops who are there to incite violence. This is not a conspiracy theory, it has actually been proven, and it is a very old police strategy. The facts that these are French words should tell you that this tactic has been used in Europe as well for decades.

        As far as being threatened, that’s a very, very blurry area that even the police has repeatedly used as an excuse in multiple instances of illegitimate shootings of unarmed and unthreatening people. All they need to say is that they “felt threatened”, and their all powerful, corrupt unions protect them from any semblance of accountability.

        Endorsing police murders with the “feeling threatened” excuse is a very dangerous example to give to all of the other reactionaries, fascists and extremist right wingers who are itching to “bag” themselves a liberal the way some Americans still dream of killing a Native American, Hispanic or black individual.

        I find such laws repugnant. Fortunately, there are still decent Americans left in this country, they haven’t all left and gone to Europe, Canada or South America, and many of these laws are defeated.

        • Patrick Gannon

          People have an innate right to self defense. If one surrounds him/herself with violent people attacking vehicles and those in them, that person is responsible for whatever happens to them when the attacked person(s) exercises self defense. No tears for them here. If you are with a group of people attacking vehicles/passengers, you have a responsibility to desist and leave – otherwise you are a participant and whatever happens to you is too bad. You made a bad choice. You and I would never find ourselves in this position, but of course there are those who will be egging on the violence as bystanders, and collateral damage is to be expected and not grieved.

          The law is pretty clear that you or other innocents have to be in imminent risk of death or severe bodily injury, which is clearly the case when a bunch of goons are taking baseball bats to your car windows. If it’s a case of being beaten to death – or worse yet, a loved one being beaten to death, versus running over the murderous thugs committing the violence, the choice is clear and legal.

          • Raphael

            Beware of important nuances, Patrick, before you rush to support such criminal rightwing legislations.

            From The Intercept August 14 article
            BACKED BY POLICE UNIONS, LEGISLATORS STAND BY LAWS TO PROTECT DRIVERS WHO KILL PROTESTER:

            “In Texas, state Rep. Pat Fallon introduced a bill to limit the liability of motorists responsible for hitting individuals who are “blocking traffic in a public right-of-way while participating in a protest or demonstration.”

            Did you catch the important nuance? This bill does not mention self defense or threat, but BLOCKING traffic. None of these proposed legislations mention threats, only blocking traffic, on any street or roadway.

            These proposed legislations are nothing less than monstrous.

            And in case anyone still wonder where the police stands on all of this, here is an answer…they stand side by side with white supremacist, the KKK and Nazis (oh what a surprise!):

            In Massachusetts, a police officer cheered on Heyer’s death over the weekend, posting on Facebook, “Hahahaha love this, maybe people shouldn’t block road ways.”

            And on YouTube and other platforms frequented by far-right voices, many have celebrated the effort to crack down on protests that block traffic. Donut Operator, a former police officer and YouTube personality known for posting “Blue Lives Matter” videos in support of law enforcement, has published videos in support of the laws designed to limit the liability of motorists. In one such video in support of the North Carolina legislation, Donut Operator ends his monologue with a gleeful compilation of cars plowing through crowds of demonstrators.

            I hope you understand the different between being actually threatened and merely being annoyed by protesters who block traffic (or wanting to hurt or kill protesters with whom one disagrees). These laws would specifically and clearly protect the latter. This is why they are being opposed.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Yes, of course I understand the distinction. I do not favor permitting people in vehicles to run down protesters simply because they are blocking a public thoroughfare. I have not followed these laws, and would not support running over someone unless it was in self defense. I think the protesters who block public roads should be arrested. We had an incident in my town, protesters blocking the freeway after Hillary lost. Of those arrested, 3/4 had not even voted!

            I might make an exception. If emergency vehicles are being blocked by protesters, driving through them slowly should be permitted, and if feet get run over in the process – tough.

          • Raphael

            Glad to know you make the distinction! As far as ambulances or firetrucks, I think protesters should let them go through, and I think that most would, it would be criminal not to…

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Raphael,

          I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, in these times, there are instigators at nearly every peaceful protest who aren’t associated with the protest organizers. They’re there to purposefully tarnish the reputation of those organizers and protesters by attaching violence to the event. There are also just thugs who like violence.

          The organizers are not responsible for the actions of these instigators and thugs, and have no authority over them. Law enforcement does have authority, but tend to assume that the instigators and thugs are part of the event’s group.

          If someone were to hit me with their vehicle at any protest, I would not only press for criminal charges, but would file a civil suit for medical bills, along with damages for pain and suffering.

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

  • Kristen

    True leadership is ‘lead with me’, we are all equal, and should never exault one person to any status above others…which is what both Neales definitions do. I disagree with both.
    A true leader is humble and leads because they are driven to, stepping up WITH the people when they need a hand. The best leaders are all humble people stepping up as they have the means to, in whatever capacity, for no reason other than they know they can get somewhere, showing the people their way. WITH the people, not one step ahead unless they are holding the hands of those less brave. The only way they should be singled out is when they personally have the means to talk, or negotiate, with individuals, just as a police hostage negotiator would.

    Ive said it before in here years ago, and putting North Korea aside, for any problems between the Middle East and Western Worlds, I think Cat Stevens/Yusef would be the one person on this planet able to build a bridge, with his foot in both worlds. Both sides like and respect him. Although would America respect a Britain whom is a practising Muslim as someone who could be one of those leaders WITH the people, both groups?
    I think the fact that over half this planet are either Jewish, Muslin or Christian has to be taken into count, rather than ignoring this fact, or speaking of matters that go against their religious beliefs. Work WITH it, like any other facts, rather than against. Allah/Jehovah/Yahweh/God is the common ground. That huge majority group needs unity, and people understanding their vows, rather than attempting to ignore this aspect of peoples souls and spirits, for many its in their blood. Why should anyone else, some in here, get to decide that some people need a full blood transfusion replaced with something YOU personally prefer? When you Neale, and others, are saying religion therefore peoples heritage and ways, should be disgarded for a so called ‘better or different’ way, in my view is akin to telling indigenous people to ditch their ways, gay or other people to ‘straighten up’ etc.
    No one even close to being a leader in any form would even think like that, its as unspiritual as one can get. A leader would work WITH how people are, differences and all, including their religions, rather than trying to change people to how YOU want them to be.
    For me personally…would I want to be how Neale would want me to be, without the religious God of my ancestors, and with behaviours more alien than humanlike? Or how Patrick would prefer me to be, a boring scientific clone with only brain function and no soul? No thanks…..and I dont think the world would either. None of us, both options pushed in here are non human behaviours, we are neither alien bores or scientific bores.

    Everyone should stop trying to change people into their personal opinion, and see this planet as one of huge diversity, learning to understand differences, rather than the very primitive caveman mentality of wanting them to suit you more. People with that mentality, often so called spiritual leaders, are as far from leadership as one can…they should just be a farmer with a flock to suit.
    No one will get anywhere until people stop trying to change others, and accept differences THEN work with that, especially the 50% or more majority, all like minded individuals.

    xx

    BTW women dont love men who love war. We love men whom are well groomed, disciplined, committed, have pride, self respect, bigger bodies than us, look healthy and with good tone and physique. Whom we know will step up if someone breaks into the house, or fight off someone harming someone smaller them, just as a female, many animals and children will when they can. Thats what we see in military guys….the masculine male strengths…visual only, its how we are made, drawn to the strong protector with pride and good genetics. This is no reflection at all on war, violence or wanting them to be that way, its purely visual. The classic ‘hero’, a brain program. No different to what honest males will say….that they are ‘programmed’ toward females who look a certain way, generally 4 inches shorter and slimmer than them, with a pretty face, longer hair and a good bum with waist narrower than hips. Classic Hollywood.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Kirsten,

      If I have, in any way, insulted you, your people, or your ancestors, I apologize. Nothing I’ve said here was written with that intent. I believe that Spirituality used to be at the core of many religions, but it’s been my experience that isn’t as true today as it used to be. I see Spirituality as something an individual can have within or without organized religion, much the way one can be a Buddhist and still belong to a traditional religion or not.

      But, that comes from my own perspective, which included sounding out the appropriate syllables in a Latin mass with no understanding of their meaning, and watching my mother continuing to attend and lead the choir in a church she believed had already condemned her to Hell for a mortal sin she’d committed years earlier while under duress.

      I see leadership as a trait few know they have until they’re called upon to use it. I never saw myself as a leader before I was literally given the mantle, per the bylaws of the church I belonged to at the time, when the Senior Pastor resigned. I didn’t like then, nor do I like now, getting up in front of a large group of people to speak or chair a meeting. But I did it, and I did it in a way that people started to look to me to be the calm in a storm. I didn’t even realize that was happening until I had it pointed out to me. Instead of being just the Administrator of the church, people saw me as a Spiritual leader. Looking back, I think it came from setting aside my own ego and always seeking consensus after quiet contemplation.

      That, and I stood up to the bullies who wanted me to lead without consensus, doing only what they saw as “right” for the church as a whole. They wanted me to use the power given me per the bylaws unilaterally, signing a legal contract for a new building (we were renting) without even consulting the body of the church. They wanted me to voice my own personal opinion (or theirs) over and above that of the body of the church, essentially “leading” them in a direction they may not have wanted to go. They wanted me to invest the money from the sale of our previous building in the highest-yielding options without first understanding the ethical values of the companies in which we’d hold stock.

      I still don’t see myself as a “leader” in the way that word is used today. I have no desire to force or manipulate anyone. If Trump is a “leader,” I am not. I’m simply the incarnation of a Divinely created Soul who finds herself often in the position of helping others. I try to do so in a way that strengthens their lost dignity and lost sense of self, usually by walking their journey with them so that they aren’t walking alone.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Kristen

        Hi Annie,
        No not at all.
        I call the investments you talk about as ‘clean money’, clean money is good money, like you, I dont want any part of ‘dirty money’. In fact when I found out where banks, including my Jewish one, invest OUR money I took mine out of the bank, Id rather earn zero interest and not allow them use of my savings to invest, not that its a big amount, than be any part of dirty money.
        Public speaking…yip, one of those things we have to conquer. I write speeches for people, Ive found getting people to say what they have to say off the top of their heads, recording it, then writing around that works best. Backwards speech writing, they say their piece before the speech is even written. I just did a fun one for a retiring music and english teacher, really funny. I did it based on me knowing as a person he would have a lot to say, but as a sensible teacher, very little. So I took the angle saying I was the speech writer trying to write for him, then wrote all the deep lovel dovey stuff, based around songs, that he would never say, then ended it with ‘so Mr ….. is impossible to write for, perhaps I should quit now and he can write his own boring teacher speech, something like hes loved his 40 years here, but its time to move on, so thanks, and have great lives”. He found it hilarious and did read out all the crock I wrote that he’d never say.
        I think the main problem with religion is no one takes it seriously, all Christianity focusses on is Jesus and immortality, they dont even read the OT, no idea about the rules, coupled with anyone who wants to have a church, just starting one, like its a hobby. I think Priests and Ministers should be chosen by God, and guided by Him, teaching the truth, and nothing more.
        You’re a leader, by my interpretation of leader.
        Need to serve customers!
        xx

        • Patrick Gannon

          How exactly are we to know which Priests and Ministers are chosen by God? Anyone can claim that – just as Neale does; and you don’t believe it when he says it, do you?

          • Kristen

            When people truly feel the calling rather than it just being a job. Theyd know the difference, and do if you ask them, Rabbis generally feel ‘called’.
            Of course Neale was called, and communicates with someone somewhere, classic channelling, just not the Biblical God as the early books claim or imply. Claimed by the chaneller, not Neale, until I think book 4 when it states its in fact a new God…3 books after deceiving Neale into thinking its the Biblical God.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I understand being “called” (from inside one’s own consciousness) to assist others, but being “called” by gods for which no evidence exists is self-deception.

    • Patrick Gannon

      “I think the fact that over half this planet are either Jewish, Muslin or Christian has to be taken into count…”

      Common misconception. The Abrahamic religions represent about 1/3 of the world religions.

      “No one will get anywhere until people stop trying to change others, and accept differences THEN work with that, especially the 50% or more majority, all like minded individuals.”

      This is referred to as the “tyranny of the majority.” It is why most of us live in countries with republic, rather than democratic governments. When majority rules, tyranny results. If the majority wants slavery, there can be no stopping it. Most of us here live in countries, that fortunately respect the rule of law, rather than tyranny of the majority.

      And it’s an open forum that truly respects freedom of expression. Neale is to be applauded for that.

    • Raphael

      I think Neale is simply offering ideas, and explaining why he thinks such ideas might be beneficial. All philosophers have done this throughout history. But he is not hitting people on the head to force them to convert and adopt his theology.

      The fact that he states that his ideas came from “God” is controversial, but it is also paradoxical, as it obviously imply ultimate and absolute authority (rather than mere opinions) while he claims no authority. This is probably what people question the most, and which might be confusing, but I think he is nudging people to abandon the notion that God is a commander-in-chief (lord, king, boss, etc). Whether one agrees or not I won’t go there, I am simply stating what I think he is doing.

      As far as women loving or admiring men who love war, look at human history…not to mention mothers who express pride that their son is a US marine, when in reality heir son is fighting and killing or getting maimed not to “protect” their mother or sister or wife or girlfriend or “freedom and democracy” but to protect the military-industrial complex in distant lands and against nations that never attacked the US.

      Perhaps some women need to transcend their biological programming and look at military guys for what they truly are: mindless puppets of the military industrial complex. Furthermore there is nothing particularly manly about being obedient and obeying orders, and being under other men in the chain of command. I would actually call this extremely unmanly! Those who want to “serve” should become waiters!

      • Kristen

        I agree completely about the military, hence trying to show its visual only, theres no way I promote war or people as killing machine puppets. Im honest about what we see visually.
        I always wanted my boys to join the military, I think teen boys need that discipline and hard physical training rather than let loose in a society of drunken idiots and skanks sniffing around them, BUT changed my mind when NZ joined America in its wars. The headspace is different in a country with no enemies, not the case now that we have an arrangement with America and Australia, the ANZAC treatie as the 3 ‘spying’ nations. If Australia support America, then we do too.
        Before that our Army just did disaster clean up, were extras on Lord Of The Rings, our Navy serves helping the Pacific Islands and guards our waters to keep Japanese commercial fishermen etc out. Those things would be good moral chices for my boys, war…whole different ballgame, no way, unless its protecting NZ. Both are builders, trades the Army would use, although more the Navy as it rebuilds the Pacific Islands after their constant storms.
        I used to go out with an Army Firefighter!

        Re Neale ‘changing the face of God’…erm, scriptures forbid that, the books shouldnt be called Conversations With God! Other than that anyone SHOULD help with new ideas and useful information, which he does, thats a good thing.
        Take care,
        xx

        • Raphael

          Yes, I agree about war but I think you are missing my other point about the military. Only airheads and wimps need to have someone yell at them to acquire “discipline”, and there is no merit in doing anything because you are forced to do it. That’s not discipline, that’s training, like one trains a dog. There is a difference. Discipline must be self originated to be real, it must come from will power. That’s the Native American way anyway…that’s the way of all free people (are there any left in this world?) That’s how you become strong, not just physically but mentally…not but being yelled at or forced to do something but through self motivation.

          I went into the army, drafted. When the anal orifice drill sergeant in charge yelled at me to do 50 push-ups, I did 150, and then told him to take a hike. Then when he told me to do 100, I did 170 (which I used to do every day 3 times a day way before being drafted). Basic training was a breeze for me, like being with a bunch of boy scouts. I was disciplined and “buffed” way before having to deal with this nonsense. I was actually in less of a good shape after the army because of a lack of sleep…like with all cults, one of the strategies of the military to brainwash their recruits into obedience is sleep deprivation.

          Because I already knew who I was, spiritually speaking, I didn’t accept the absurd notion that I was to be treated as an underling by anyone, or that the government owned my body, my mind and my time. I never obeyed any order…not one. I felt sorry for the others, most of whom were all sheep, compliant and obedient to a nauseating degree. But I made some good friends in the guardhouse, where I spent most of my time, among them an anarchist!

          • Kristen

            My reply ‘fell off’, hopefully you got it, not typing it again!
            Xx

          • Raphael

            No, didn’t get it, but that explains the noise outside. I will check the backyard. It’s a shame though, a brand new reply, unused…

          • Kristen

            Yip, under a pile of crap. I was basically saying I agree with you, my reference is to self discipline, rather than military orders.
            Anyway, Ive just browsed through this thread….my God! The testosterone flying! Assuming its dominant male traits to need to be right, have the last say, argue for the sake of it, bicker, assume youve ‘won’ when others no longer discuss what you want to etc. Ive never seen it before.
            Is it just like my dad is bigger than your dad?
            Xx

          • Raphael

            It’s this month…something about a lunar and solar eclipse, as well as Mercury retrograde in Leo (a fiery sign), don’t ask me, I heard it through the grapevine, I am not into this stuff but we are supposed to see some fireworks in this time period. If not North Korea, then it will be all of us…right here right now! Ha ha…bring it one by dad is big foot, and he has more hair than your dad.

          • Kristen

            My dads 6 foot 4, for real, and bald as something bald…maybe just a bald thing! You can win the dad stakes, I dont think I can beat bigfoot.
            But you should see my mother, she makes my dad look like a dwarf, and her beard, that I inherited, tucks into her pants. With her boobs! But I bet her monobrow kicks your dads one anyday, she rests her can of beer on it.
            xx

          • Raphael

            Could your mom wrap her beard around your dad’s bold head in the winter, to keep him warm (and close)?…
            Since you brought up motherhood, I used to keep my books lined up on my mother’s rear end…it made a nice shelf. Have you noticed these kinds of protrusions? I have seen other people in the family use it as a little table to have dinner. Very useful. At parties people could put their empty glasses on it. Try to beat that!
            I hope your mom doesn’t trip on her boobs and fall…on your dad’s bold head. That would be tragic, given her height and bulk.

          • Kristen

            Haha, even more tragic since my parents have been divorced for over 30 years, hes on his 4th wife I think! Hes a player that think hes hot, mums a city dweller and widowed.
            I use my own beard as a scarf in winter, guys with odd fetishes flock to me. Yip, mums tripped over her boobs several times. Often when taking the rubbish out, unfortunately.
            My friend has one of those bums like your mother, try full glasses next time. Protrusions can be rather handy. My aunties on my mum and dads side, theyre actually siblings, use their bellies for all sorts, including putting the beach umbrella in their bellybutton when sunbathing, now thats handy!

          • Raphael

            He is on his 4th wife right now? You didn’t have to get so graphic!
            Anyway belly buttons are great…as secret pockets to keep stuff. I pack a gun in mine (in keeping with the testosterone theme).

            Tell your mom, before she breaks her hip…she could wrap them boobs over her shoulders and around her neck, like your beard.
            That should really turn some guys on.

          • Kristen

            Eeeeewwwwwww, gross. Parents and kids dont do anything past kiss, thats each generations rule.
            Im boring, I just store my belly button fluff collection in mine, plus a spare tic tac or two.
            Mum has it mastered now, she uses masking tape and just tapes one boob to each knee, extra padding when she trips over her beard!
            No need to share your fetishes in here…really!

          • Raphael

            Too bad. I was going to go into toenails next, but we already covered it.
            I gotta get some sleep now (worked late)…every night I have to use masking tape to fold my giant ears…otherwise they hang on each side of the bed and my cat thinks they are raccoons, what with the hair and all.

          • Kristen

            It will be mid afternoon there….haha.
            Dishes time here, 11pm, when I do my chores, yuck!
            I have the same ear problem, except i just wear my Walmart Wheres Wally hat to bed, they just fit in.
            My cat thinks my hairy legs are scratching posts, could be the solid scabs, they are rather like bark.
            Toenails….um, no comment! You can dream about them!
            Have a good sleep…humans arent generally nocturnal BTW! You bigfoot aliens never read the memos!
            Have a good sleep.
            xx

          • Raphael

            I am already asleep…dreaming about toenails and Walmart.
            Have a good evening, don’t break any dishes with your webbed hands.

    • Sam

      “True leadership is ‘lead with me’, we are all equal,”

      Lead with me, seems to be very much about “me”, and from someone getting my ears sore. Big yawn.

      “and should never exault one person to any status above others…which is what both Neales definitions do.”

      Then you must stop your idolizing of Jews and Indians; everyone is equal.

      “A true leader is humble and leads because they are driven to, stepping up WITH the people when they need a hand.”

      A drive to lead sounds like power hungry. To offer a hand is quite enough, I think.

      “The best leaders are all humble people stepping up as they have the means to, in whatever capacity, for no reason other than they know they can get somewhere, showing the people their way”

      Sounds like a besserwisser with a big ego, playing humble.

      “WITH the people, not one step ahead unless they are holding the hands of those less brave”

      Hmm, those less brave is one step ahead?

      “The only way they should be singled out is when they personally have the means to talk, or negotiate, with individuals, just as a police hostage negotiator would.”

      Maybe if they are good at other things too? But be careful, you don’t like role models 😉

      “for any problems between the Middle East and Western Worlds”

      Is mainly because the Middle East has many basic unsolved problems on their own.

      “I think Cat Stevens/Yusef would be the one person on this planet able to build a bridge, with his foot in both worlds.”

      The one person to lead? Not my cup of tea. The goal is “anarchy”.

      “I think the fact that over half this planet are either Jewish, Muslin or Christian has to be taken into count, rather than ignoring this fact, or speaking of matters that go against their religious beliefs. Work WITH it, like any other facts, rather than against.”

      This goes deeper than religion. For example, freedom of speech. If religion is misused as the excuse, or not, either way, we have to point out the disagreement; basic human rights.

      “Allah/Jehovah/Yahweh/God is the common ground.”

      Then we are f-ed :) Common ground should be simple everyday truths about caring.

      “rather than attempting to ignore this aspect of peoples souls and spirits, for many its in their blood”

      Fanatics? If the imagination is more important than basic caring, the blood is toxic.

      “Why should anyone else, some in here, get to decide that some people need a full blood transfusion replaced with something YOU personally prefer?”

      It’s not about deciding, but speaking one’s mind, and the conscience to not go along with actions one finds damaging. In such an exchange of views, the better one will eventually prevail. How progress is made.

      “When you Neale, and others, are saying religion therefore peoples heritage and ways, should be disgarded for a so called ‘better or different’ way, in my view is akin to telling indigenous people to ditch their ways, gay or other people to ‘straighten up’ etc.”

      This is actually well put. Because it describes how “anyone” would feel when challenged on their beliefs hold as absolute truth. But the challenge is necessary, in case the “absolute truth” was something to improve on after all. It’s in this clash of different view things move forward.

      “No one even close to being a leader in any form would even think like that, its as unspiritual as one can get.”

      You only say that because of your belief, which you can’t imagine being wrong, being challenged. In my view, you are not at peace with your belief, as some people can be, but feel threatened. No offense :)

      “A leader would work WITH how people are, differences and all, including their religions, rather than trying to change people to how YOU want them to be.”

      It’s just thinking out loud, for christs sake. One person’s view of things. Calm down :)

      “For me personally…” […] “No thanks…..and I dont think the world would either.”

      I think the priesthood in old Egypt, or old Rome, etc., said the same thing. You are only a child of your time, as every child ever born. Soon every religion known today is gone. I guarantee you. The future waits for no one.

      • Kristen

        Boy, someones nitpicking today!
        I am completely calm btw, looking for solutions like everyone else, working WITH the way people are, not against.
        I actually like being wrong, thats a complete misinterpretation about me, an assumption. Education, science and almost everything is on the basis of frequently being wrong….how can someone want to be right if they cant acknowledge when they are wrong? That defies logic. Your concept refers to delusions, people kidding themselves they are correct, when they aren’t! Not me at all.
        As for idolising Jews and Indians? WTF? Ive never mentioned Indians or India, nor Hinduism? Or do you mean Native Americans? Nope, I dont know much about them, you’ve made that comment up completely! That would be Raphael who would speak of their ways, not me. Jews…I rarely speak of Jews, I dont actually like the word. Ive studied under a Rabbi, and as an Israelite will speak of Israelites, and have acknowledged the success of Jewish people through their blessings in here, but rarely speak of them as well.
        I dont exault anyone above anyone else.
        Where do you get this information from? Make it up because youre incredibly argumentative at the moment?
        K

        • Sam

          “I am completely calm btw, looking for solutions like everyone else, working WITH the way people are, not against.”

          Your post wasn’t that much “with Neale”, now was it?
          How people are? You mean how you see them, or?

          “I actually like being wrong, thats a complete misinterpretation about me, an assumption.”

          Ok, ok, calm down 😉 I think you may have a lot to look forward to, of what you like 😉

          “How can someone want to be right if they cant acknowledge when they are wrong?”

          Well, some say that the “wrong” is what makes you find “right”. So then how can wrong be wrong just helping out? It’s not about being right (or wrong), but the satisfaction of discovering a better version.

          “Your concept refers to delusions, people kidding themselves they are correct, when they aren’t! Not me at all.”

          Good to hear :) But wouldn’t people that kidding themselves say the same exact thing?

          “As for idolising Jews and Indians? WTF? Ive never mentioned Indians or India, nor Hinduism? Or do you mean Native Americans? Nope, I dont know much about them, you’ve made that comment up completely!”

          I don’t think it’s entirely made up. You did say “few people are worthy of Earth”. If those few include the natives/the native way, I don’t think my assumption is that far-fetched.

          “Jews…I rarely speak of Jews, I dont actually like the word.”

          Hmm, I can’t recall you using another word. Like just now regarding the storm of “jewish haters”. Or are jews and jewish quite different?

          “and have acknowledged the success of Jewish people through their blessings in here” […] “I dont exault anyone above anyone else.”

          I believe you don’t want to.

          “Where do you get this information from?”

          As I see it, everyone has some kind of role model they exalt, to one degree or another. For you, I would suggest this being the jewish way. And if not, then something else. Because I see it as something universal. If you deny it, you will have a pretty tough sell, regarding me—I would think you be kidding yourself.

          You say you change your position if realizing being “wrong”, which is easy to believe regarding the trivial, but I very much doubt you would change anything of the fundamental, in your life, like your ancestor’s God. Am I right?

          • Kristen

            Im actually a Kabbalist, not religious at all. I dont practice any religion nor do I worship God although God is in my blood and the diety I an under, with a good relationship.

            As for a previous comment, actually several where you like to say you THINK I fear my beliefs being wrong, or similar comments, no way. My beliefs are proven to be constantly, only one thing could even dent my faith, and that would be God Himself. Although that would defy logic…why would He prove Hkmsrlf to be daily and spend years building faith, trust and the truth, and put be on a Kabbalic path, an incredibly hard one that involved ten years of studies, including many University papers, to then throw our relationship away????

            Yet again, I dont exalt Jewish people, but I was pointing out that their clear successes are due to the Israelite blessings, explaining why they would never turn from God, its in Israelites and many Muslkms blood, and God has blessed their families for generation after generation, its best to work WITH that rather than constantly having solutions to everything that involves wanting them to give all of that up.
            As for few being worthy of Earth….I didnt name any groups, why would people who constantly abuse and destroy something be worthy of it.

            Whats with your attitude? You get so personal and form assumptions so easily, rather than rationally discussing matters or reading what people say with an open mind, often misinterpreting matters. A lot. And like to consistantly tell people they are wrong, no matter the discussion, have the last say and tend to tell people they will get a rude awakening or similar.
            Is this some personal vendetta or something? Perhaps because I laughed and told Patrick I agreed with him on a silly matter below? Or is there a roster of whom you nitpick with, one person at a time?
            Its all just wierd!
            Do you like not getting along with people? Is that your game, just wanting to argue? In most forums, including in here, most people just get along, as with real life. Everyone here is so different, yet generally get along as normal people, and discuss rather than argue.
            Just say what the agenda is, or why the attitude? Or are you just a common old troll? Or one of those reincarnated aliens you spoke of, so a bit different? Or is it Asbergers, which is fine, lots of people do?
            Theres definately something going on with you.
            Just be honest, we are all just people.

          • Raphael

            Hey Kristen, say Hi to Sagemode for me (Sam’s alias)…It’s morning in the Netherlands, he is up and rearing to go!
            Seriously, if you read his posts carefully, you might come to think as I do that a mild form of mental illness is lurking below the surface…the contradictions come from a form of disassociation…my advice: don’t waste your time and wean him off gently but firmly.

          • Kristen

            Yeah I know, Ive asked him honestly. In the ‘incident’ you missed, there was a lot more going on, thats why Ive been trying as patiently as I can, and tried to talk him through coming out of an incredibly dark place. Crazy paranoia and all sorts.
            Yip I saw those posts, and he was on here not long ago. Knew he was in Europe but not where.
            Good afternoon nap, and dreams about toenails and beards?
            Hope it wasnt the two together?
            Xx

          • Raphael

            Yes, it was toenails embedded in a long flowing beard that was crawling on the floor in Walmart. Very nice dream…

          • Kristen

            Wow….hot!!!! Could be my husband you saw in a prophesy. Was he wearing a pink iced dunkin donut with the beard threaded through the hole?
            Read the very top of the thread! Both Sam and Sagemode are on, not talking to eachother! I passed on hi from you. Haha.
            Im staying on for a bit to see Sams reply to me! Biarch!!
            Xx

          • Raphael

            This thread is getting long, I am out of breath going up and down!
            I was glad to be able to set Trump straight though…regarding matters of national importance.

            Yes it was your future hubby…he was riding an ostrich as well, so apparently he is Australian. Is that bad? You have been warned!

            I am working on a packaging illustration, will be on and off for the next hour.

            Wear a helmet when you communicate with Sam/Sagemode, he is an angry little bugger.

          • Kristen

            Ill put on my armour…my Walmart Wheres Wally beanie, it works for everything.
            Yip Trump reads this, glad he got the memo. Finally!!
            Australian….NNNNNNOOOOO WWWWWAAAAAYYYY. Cant stand the accent.
            And no its not the same as a Kiwi one, huge differences like Canada and New York. Maybe I can just cut his tongue out, should do the trick.
            xx

          • Raphael

            Weird thing about accents and how they develop…California is just flat…no accent. Perfect for Hollywood.
            Don’t put the word tongue and trick in the same sentence, this is a family friendly site!
            I am sorta familiar with the Kiwi accent…charming if I can say so meself (no that would be Irish).

          • Kristen

            Kiwi accents can be dreadful, the ones with no diction are shocking, but I guess thats the case in any country. Not quite as bad as Englandish (new word) people saying ‘innit’. Trash accents!
            Meself is Piratian isnt it?
            California has an accent, Irish is the closest to true English now, everyone has an accent in English.
            Tongue tricks…..LOL, and I never LOL, someone reading that will freak!

            Ill pass on a other post to you, or vaguely. About digging your own grave when your judgements and paranoias get the better of you.
            FFS…again, you’re already dead, just a ghost.
            xx

          • Raphael

            “Innit” is very Native American (they love scalping the English language and then hanging it on a pole outside the tipi).

            I don’t hear the California accent, I am so used to it…Meself, me car, me house, that’s all British…and weird if you axe me (now that’s pure redneck/hillbilly).

            I gotta go to me grave and lay in me coffin now, I haveta sleep…I had me quota of fresh blood for the night, having massacred the Queens’ English to me heart’s content.

            Sam is entertaining…I wonder if he tweets, like the Donald.

          • Kristen

            Sagemode just died. The pic was creepy, a scary vibe.

          • Raphael

            He is just another ghost…he comes and goes quickly. Boo!

          • Kristen

            Apparently Im a troll!!!!
            Damn, you could have told me sooner.
            How did I miss that? Do Walmart have the costume?

          • Sam

            “Hey Kristen, say Hi to Sagemode for me (Sam’s alias)…It’s morning in the Netherlands, he is up and rearing to go!
            Seriously, if you read his posts carefully, you might come to think as I do that a mild form of mental illness is lurking below the surface…the contradictions come from a form of disassociation…my advice: don’t waste your time and wean him off gently but firmly.”

            Sam’s alias? Out digging your own grave I see, as a figure of speech, when your paranoia and harsh judgments get the better of you, for all to see. Well, we are all human :)

          • Kristen

            Sam, Raphael has you blocked, he cant see any of your posts at all.

          • Sam

            “Im actually a Kabbalist, not religious at all. I dont practice any religion nor do I worship God although God is in my blood and the diety I an under, with a good relationship.”

            Because that you seem to be in opposition to the God Neale speak of, I can’t help think that your God is pretty much just fiction. Because, for me, the God Neale speaks of makes sense.

            Hard to take? Losing your mind? Attacking me with whatever, no matter how ridiculous? Sure, just some honest questions and concerns, and then at the same time making the hardest effort to ridicule me talking to Raphael. Talk about weird. Talking about making yourself unbelievable. Just like your Kabbalah concept no one understands. Or are there anyone? It’s just a big mess, isn’t it? Just another circus? Just bits and pieces of something indeterminate? Well, we’ll see! :)

            “My beliefs are proven to me constantly, only one thing could even dent my faith, and that would be God Himself.”

            Sure, there are more things in heaven and earth, but do you have some specifics too? Spell it out. Something that contradicts the God in CwG.

            “Although that would defy logic…why would He prove Himself to me daily and spend years building faith, trust and the truth, and put me on a Kabbalic path, an incredibly hard one that involved ten years of studies, including many University papers, to then throw our relationship away????”

            Regardless work, or hobby, and it’s equal to anything else. Like mountain climbing, or selling shoes. God says, yes, keep going, to anything you like. The relationship is regardless there, regardless activity—if you want it to be. Everything is up to you. God has no other will than what you want in that moment.

            “Yet again, I dont exalt Jewish people, but I was pointing out that their clear successes are due to the Israelite blessings, explaining why they would never turn from God”

            Well, there are some Jewish atheists, even though controversial.

            “God has blessed their families for generation after generation”

            Just an expression from having good results. God doesn’t bless anyone more than the other.

            “its best to work WITH that rather than constantly having solutions to everything that involves wanting them to give all of that up.”

            They have a good system of support, which really is worthwhile keeping. But the belief in the old God is declining. Because they too understand the absurdity.

            “As for few being worthy of Earth….I didnt name any groups, why would people who constantly abuse and destroy something be worthy of it?”

            Don’t get me started! :) For me, that statement is infamous already, as nothing worse one could have said, even though I understand you didn’t mean it that way. Such statements are first base to genocide.

            “Whats with your attitude? You get so personal and form assumptions so easily”

            I couldn’t disagree more. Where do you get it from? Mirroring?

            “rather than rationally discussing matters or reading what people say with an open mind, often misinterpreting matters. A lot.”

            That would be my words to you. And if I really had, before you, I guess you wouldn’t like that either; your own exact words. There is no person on this site making more personalized circus than you, don’t you agree? And even proud of it?

            “And like to consistantly tell people they are wrong, no matter the discussion”

            Well, when having a different view, that is often the interpretation. But actually I don’t mind, I have only this urge, sometimes, to tell my side of things.

            “have the last say”

            I would think “the last say” to be like 50/50 if counting. I guess you are mirroring again.

            “and tend to tell people they will get a rude awakening or similar.”

            “Rude awakening” was specifically regarding you, wasn’t it? Well, yes, it could happen, if you realized that 10 years of hard work wasn’t that accurate or important. Better keep a lid on the possibility?

            “Is this some personal vendetta or something?”

            You ask me? Lol. That’s funny. You and Raphael seems pretty busy :)

            “Perhaps because I laughed and told Patrick I agreed with him on a silly matter below? “

            Nope, I was at the time already halfway through writing my first post to you here. And I don’t think it had, in any way, a different tone than your post I was responding to. Do you?

            “Or is there a roster of whom you nitpick with, one person at a time? Its all just wierd!”

            Well, with less of your assumptions, I think you would do just fine.

            “Do you like not getting along with people? Is that your game, just wanting to argue?”

            Well, I am not here to socialize. My girlfriend wouldn’t allow it anyway. Half native, half middle east (of the first Christians, ergo somewhat Jewish). She says she takes my scalp. I couldn’t dare that :)

            “In most forums, including in here, most people just get along, as with real life.”

            Oh, you have your falling outs too. And then things get better again, doesn’t it? Even Patrick and Annie, who could imagine? And if it hadn’t been for you, I bet me and Raphael be okay again by now. Because the first little spark of anger died pretty fast, not that much said. All quiet. But then you stepped in. Couldn’t get enough. Running back and forth, egging things on, making us both say quite a bit more. Yeah, I don’t think you be called in by the UN to any peace mission anytime soon, lol. The circus, on the other hand…

            “Just say what the agenda is, or why the attitude?”

            Funny :) Turn around and find the mirror.

            “Or are you just a common old troll?”

            Coming from the circus clown? Should I take you seriously? :)

            “Or one of those reincarnated aliens you spoke of, so a bit different?”

            Why did “she we don’t use the name of” get angry at you?

            “Or is it Asbergers, which is fine, lots of people do?”

            Nope. Nothing. What about you? Any diagnoses?

            “Theres definately something going on with you. Just be honest, we are all just people.”

            Ah, from shooting blind, you actually hit something. Honesty is the key, together with straight to the core. I know, a terrible crime :)

          • Kristen

            Im at work, so need to be quick.
            Just re Raphael…if you notice I passed on what you said to him since he has you blocked so couldnt see it….if you are writing to someone I assume you want them to read it. He asked who told him to get a life, so I said it was you! Didnt you know he blocked you so cant read your posts? Read his threads again…I reply to what he has said. He told me to say Hi to Sagemode, so I did!
            That throws your entire theory that Im just trying to egg you both on and cause a rift! Why would I want to do that? Why egg anyone on to argue or fall out? Especially when that person has you blocked anyway? Read the post under this…..he advised me on you! Even without him seeing your posts, I assume he can just guess what you’re saying.

            Yip, I like circuses! Life should be a circus, lots of different people and lots of laughter. Human beings being human.

            What does ‘she we dont use the name of’ get angry mean? You mean M? Who asked us not to use her name so I stopped? Well because I mentioned a term she used sounded dodgy although she didnt mean it that way so may want to change her wording and didnt understand what I meant, but it was too late, you had already seen it and had a laugh with the term she used, as I thought someone may. Then the entire thing went nuts.

            Thank you for answering my trying to understand you, all rational questions.
            And in like…nope, no mental health illnesses, odd agenda or any diagnosis here either.

            Have a good weekend,
            K

          • Sam

            “Just re Raphael…if you notice I passed on what you said to him since he has you blocked so couldnt see it….”

            Don’t you know what blocking means? Why not respect it?

            “if you are writing to someone I assume you want them to read it.”

            I don’t mind. Give it a rest.

            “He asked who told him to get a life, so I said it was you!”

            How could he asked that if you didn’t tell him first?

            “Didnt you know he blocked you so cant read your posts?”

            Don’t you know how to respect it?

            “He told me to say Hi to Sagemode, so I did!”

            Why you telling me?

            “That throws your entire theory that Im just trying to egg you both on and cause a rift!”

            What you try I have no idea, like most of the time, but the effect is obviously the opposite of getting along. Are you really that blind?

            “Why would I want to do that?”

            Then why don’t yea stop?

            “Why egg anyone on to argue or fall out?”

            Exactly. Stop it.

            “Especially when that person has you blocked anyway?”

            Aha, maybe a light bulb over your head? Give it a rest.

            “Read the post under this…..he advised me on you!”

            Get out of here—really? :)

            “Even without him seeing your posts, I assume he can just guess what you’re saying.”

            I guess so—what else could it be… :)

            “Yip, I like circuses! Life should be a circus, lots of different people and lots of laughter.”

            Also on your expense, constantly ridiculing you, big laugh, everything about you and what you stand for—both between people about you and in your face? If you say yes, it’s pretty much what will happen, to see if you really mean it.

            “Then the entire thing went nuts”

            Ah, yes, that’s true. When thinking about it, she got upset with you more than once.

            “Thank you for answering my trying to understand you, all rational questions.”

            Looking forward to some real talk about Kabbalah vs CwG :)

            “Have a good weekend”

            F… me, is it the weekend already? Have to run! :)

          • Kristen

            Kabbalah is easy to learn about, just google it. The Tree of Life journey. Its just a journey, not a religion, about going back through ‘life’, saying no to the Tree of Knowledge (Freemasons, governments, academics plus wrong doing like knowingly harming others and the planet), to then be able to eat from the Tree of Life. The tree of knowledge is the game of Snakes n Ladders, the Game of Life, Monopoly etc, all games, whereas the Tree of Life is just wanting a simple life, happily ever after, as couples around friends and family, like Fairytales are based on. The main focus in on friendships, relationships between males and females and happiness. Music, fashion, fiction, litttle kids, pets, laughter etc are on the Tree of Life. Its about choices on what journey you choose. If on the Tree of Knowledge, the very end of Revelation in the bible is about a final choice to get off and choose the Tree of Life BUT its hard for males, especially academics and serious people as its about love, laughter, happiness, beauty, humour, equality, simplicity, creative thinking as physical creativity almost like self suffiency (for females sewing, baking, design etc, males art, woodwork, music etc).
            On the Tree of Life journey, people need to refind that inner child again, and just learn to laugh and enjoy people and life and be a natural fun human, without text books and boredom, you need to be able to entertain yourself. Its like pretending you are back in Eden and how lives would be, without cities, money, rulers etc. Thats the link that Raphael sees in Native American culture, and is also evident in Jewish Kibbutz, lives based on Tree of Life lives, like many other cultures were before ‘white man culture’, science and academia took over. This doesnt imply superiority, just differences, and both groups just want to live happily, they respect females a lot, lives revolve around the kids and there is a lot of music, humour and general banter. Thats why he and I just banter and talk crock, that you see as a circus or perhaps find odd, its just how we are as people, my best friend is as well, actually all my close friends. I was raised in a funny family, my dad could be a stand up comedian, with young cool parents, Im the youngest, born when Mum and Dad were just 23 and almost 22.
            I think many communes try that as well, although unfortunately they end up as cults with a sicko religious leader, there for the wrong reasons.

            The bible is about how God is with people with Tree of Knowledge lives, a grump. When people make the Tree of Life choices, forsaking that, God dwells with love and joy, again as per the end of Revelation.

            Re wanting to discuss Kabbalah vs CwG…not possible. There are many Gods, Neales CwG God is a God of the Afterlife, the books acknowledge it, talking about reincarnation and it being Neales chosen path a lot. Ive never said otherwise, just a different thing under a different God. The same as Hinduism and other Gods. All Gods are under The Source anyway, so it doesnt really matter at all. As Ive made clear, my issue is the clear implications that its the same God as scripture, when its clearly not.

            If replying, theres no need to copy every sentence and do a response to it, thats wierd, it looks like nitpicking word by word. You asked me to explain Kabbalah or what I stand for, and I have, as simply as possible.

            Take care,
            K

          • Sam

            It’s a paradox Kabbalah being knowledge. But the inner child indeed, as then cannot have enemies. Like me (well, besides having a touch of temper now and then.) As told from the very start, I am naive. And your question of Asperger’s quite fair, as it is the same form of straightforward honesty. You and Raphael bound easily because of common “enemies”, and not from the child part specifically, which wouldn’t have any.

            I am the first one to acknowledge that the very old message of “love your enemies”, and such, is hard to live by, but I am very much surprised, that after several thousand years, and even on a spiritual blog, of all places, that people yet doesn’t even have it as a goal, but exactly the opposite, very loudly and proudly throws this suggestion out the window. Not yet even coming one step closer to anything.

            “The bible is about how God is with people with Tree of Knowledge lives, a grump. When people make the Tree of Life choices, forsaking that, God dwells with love and joy, again as per the end of Revelation.”

            Okay, a journey and not a religion. Just another book at the library to read and put back.

            “Re wanting to discuss Kabbalah vs CwG…not possible. There are many Gods, Neales CwG God is a God of the Afterlife, the books acknowledge it, talking about reincarnation and it being Neales chosen path a lot.”

            Even so, if only talking about the content, of the two, and the statements made, nothing that is of clear disagreement with each other?

            “All Gods are under The Source anyway, so it doesnt really matter at all. As Ive made clear, my issue is the clear implications that its the same God as scripture, when its clearly not.”

            I think maybe The Source is what’s been called God in CwG. But what do you mean by The Source?

            “If replying, theres no need to copy every sentence and do a response to it, thats wierd,”

            No need as a rule. It varies, what I find suitable according to the situation.

            “You asked me to explain Kabbalah or what I stand for, and I have, as simply as possible.”

            And thank you :) So then, what do you find helpful regarding Kabbalah you don’t find in CwG?

          • Kristen

            Last question…its just my journey, and what God chose for me. I was a Kabbalist for many years before I had even read about it, instinctively. So to me Kabbalah is just the word and written descriptions about what I already was, just in my blood I guess.

            And just for the record, I dont believe in love thy enemy, Jesus is entitled to his opinions. I will try to help them get out of their screwed up situation, but my ‘enemy’ is anyone who knowingly and deliberately causes suffering to another. Love is an emotion, or defines the actions of caring for someone. Nope, I dont love those who cause suffering, I support eye for an eye, and Karma. Another of Jesus teachings, ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you’. Karma is a Universal Law, no one is exempt so its deceptive to even say they are forgiven so are ‘good to go’. Thats a lie, its better for them that they face consequences asap, then its over. I would force those who have race horses to run whipped round and round tracks for year after year, keep caged hen farmers in cages in a dark barn for years, let evil ‘monsters’ loose on peodophiles etc, have all wife and child beaters be beaten within an inch of their life etc. The point of Karmic consequences is so people learn never to do it again…….do you think they would if Karma hit them properly, or eye for an eye? Nope….even the most sadistic of all can relate so something when its done to themselves. Then after consequences, the therapy and rebuilding can start….thats what a lot of reincarnation paths are all about. Karma, this is a Karmic Earth cycle, or will be soon.

            Yes, Neales ‘God’, refers to The Source when he mentions a higher God. Thats easy to Google, type in The Source Tree Of Life. Its The Source of all souls and ‘invisible matter’.

            Re Kabbalah being knowledge, yes the very word means ‘the knowledge’ and yes, its a paradox and very complicated to work out, BECAUSE it is about Eden and both trees, even published information gets them confused, the key is the Tree of Knowledge are the ones with The Abyss (hell) at the top, Tree of Life has The Void (heaven) at the top. Its about getting off one tree that we are all generally born on, the normal life journey, and getting onto the other.

            Take care,
            K

          • Sam

            “And just for the record, I dont believe in love thy enemy, Jesus is entitled to his opinions. I will try to help them get out of their screwed up situation, but my ‘enemy’ is anyone who knowingly and deliberately causes suffering to another.”

            This had me remember this approach someone had for solution to solve the psychopath problem, with the contention that this irreversible condition was something one could detect from the age of 8. And simply then kill them, 8-year-old children. What is your thought?

            “Love is an emotion, or defines the actions of caring for someone. Nope, I dont love those who cause suffering, I support eye for an eye, and Karma.”

            As we all are humans, to cause suffering will happen. To not love them still, is not to love or forgive oneself, firmly stuck in the notion oneself being bad, coming into a vicious circle of acting out, towards a problem all the time being inside, and will not heal itself before forgiveness and love is given regardless.

            “Karma is a Universal Law, no one is exempt so its deceptive to even say they are forgiven so are ‘good to go’.”

            A system and process leading to universal love as the only answer.

            “Thats a lie, its better for them that they face consequences asap, then its over.”

            This is you acting out from the pain inside, causing suffering to others, which your subconscious will pick up as yourself being bad, hurting yourself, and a circle of no end.

            “The point of Karmic consequences is so people learn never to do it again.”

            I know. When you stop, is just a matter of time; being the good news.

            “Yes, Neales ‘God’, refers to The Source when he mentions a higher God. Thats easy to Google, type in The Source Tree Of Life. Its The Source of all souls and ‘invisible matter’.”

            Being a Kabbalist, I thought you be more enthusiastic. You explaining it with your own words and understanding also being part of the point.

            “the key is the Tree of Knowledge are the ones with The Abyss (hell) at the top, Tree of Life has The Void (heaven) at the top. Its about getting off one tree that we are all generally born on, the normal life journey, and getting onto the other.”

            Yes, thank you, I understand that part, and like it. The journey, the process, the road. But did you know the road is the goal?

          • Kristen

            I dont really go into Kabbalah much, nor with enthusiasm, as its dangerous, a hard path, and one all alone, you need to be quite isolated, I wouldnt recommend anyone switch to it so dont push it. Its best done if God or someone above guides you through it unknowingly, so much information on Earth is wrong, and people end up on the wrong tree. Ill answer questions but thats about it…..its also Jakobs Ladder in scripture. It can only be done if people are intuitive and listen to instincts as it sort of works with just knowing or ‘feeling’ what assignments you need to do.

            Re kids…I like to believe that good parenting can make everyone a good person, and brains reprogrammed when people are children. Im possibly more inclined to think psycopathic behaviour is due to reincarnation. I cant even kill an injured bird that really needs to be put down to stop its suffering, so would never support that. Love and good parenting should work…problem is, psychopaths generally dont come from nurturing homes. Yes we all sometimes accidently cause suffering BUT I failed to say I meant to cause suffering knowingly and deliberately…thats when Karma applies. My ommission of that changed the context a bit.

            Sam, I have no suffering inside, and dont harm others. Ive never been abused, came from a happy home, and Im a happy person with good relationships with my entire family and everyone I know. My kids are all happy as well. Im a normal person, I actually dont know why you think Im ‘screwed up’ and being mean to you!

            Take care,
            K

          • Sam

            “Re kids…I like to believe that good parenting can make everyone a good person, and brains reprogrammed when people are children.”

            Not that much make, but let, I think. Let the children continue to be good persons.

            “Yes we all sometimes accidently cause suffering BUT I failed to say I meant to cause suffering knowingly and deliberately…thats when Karma applies. My ommission of that changed the context a bit.”

            Karma, how I see it, is more a law of nature. Discoveries made from the feedback of cause and effect. “Accidentally” or not.

            “Sam, I have no suffering inside, and dont harm others. Ive never been abused, came from a happy home, and Im a happy person with good relationshi ps with my entire family and everyone I know.”

            Amazing. No offense, but everyone carries with them some pain around. To be in denial, can even mean a lot, and/or really bad, as a self-defense mechanism when unbearable to face. But still manifesting itself through actions. Erratic behavior. Good cop/bad cop. Not even realizing it themselves.

            “I actually dont know why you think Im ‘screwed up’ and being mean to you!”

            Not more screwed up than the rest of us, in different ways. Being very human. And to talk about things, without turning it into a circus, may help.

          • Patrick Gannon

            You, Raphael and others might want to google this article which might bear some relationship to the subject and person in question… There are a number of us who might go at it with some enthusiasm but only a couple people here who meet a certain profile…..

            bigthink who-are-internet-trolls-psychologists-build-a-profile

          • Kristen

            Hi,
            Thanks Patrick.
            Yip I know, I was told when all the ‘stirring’ began months ago that they and I would have stuff to discuss, now they are apparently my age, seem to read everything I type, mirror etc. Smiley faces everywhere are classic as well…a smirk! As is trying to position as ‘the good guy’.
            But at the roots of every troll is a deep psychological problem, so they still need people to try to see them as a person….IF the mask is ever lifted! Im studying with interest, its sad.
            Many have been in here, not many last long! Other ghan you😈. Many sites are a troll magnet, in here I think its because everyone is so different with differing beliefs, all strangers, so its easy to find targets and study everyone. We’re all open books, easy to look at. You were especially, remember in the ‘incident’, it took me an entire 5 minutes to find that info on you was from your open facebook page, a twin towers photo. Sooooo glad I dont have facebook. The stirring with ‘M’ crossed the line though, still bringing it up and pointing me as the bad guy….they are incredibly good and experienced, Id rather be the target than Annie or anyone else, so redirected them to me, I tested, actually saying ‘target me’ if you need a punching bag, they know Im psychoanalysing. And baiting.
            Trolls are never sharks, just a jellyfish, they show their weak spots and jugular….often!
            K

          • Patrick Gannon

            I don’t try to hide anything in particular – but I don’t recall what “twin towers photo” you are referring to. And, sorry, but I don’t follow the discussion from the ‘M’ text onwards.

            I agree that there are reasons people do things – reasons why their brains are wired as they are – we just don’t know enough yet, about how to address these issues, but we’re making progress.

          • Kristen

            Hi,
            Sorry the ‘M’ refers to someone targetted in all that crazy stuff about us being computer programs, aliens etc. It was someone in here that was accused of being an addict, really mean stuff. You were accused of being involved in a Twin Towers conspiracy somehow, but it was easy to see they got crock or ideas from clicking on your facebook, there was a big pic of twin towers on the front page, all I saw, and confirmation that they were ‘snooping’ into people. You had told someone the week earlier to look you up on facebook…they were mirroring, playing their troll games based on what we had all said the few weeks earlier, starting with the problems between you and Jethro, and me and M, then swooped in. I was already watching as I ‘felt’ something brewing. They even said they werent new to this, incredibly well experienced. But accidently got caught up in something bigger than them…..Karma!
            I note no apologies came forth, as a ‘normal’ personality type would.
            Anyway thats long over.
            I added to the above that trolls are classic common old Dark Tetrad personality types, the internet is their outlet. Although some appear to be goblins!
            Take care,
            K

          • Patrick Gannon

            Hmm. I went through my FB wall page going quite a ways back, and there is a post from a Catholic dude named Leo that I spar with on Catholic sites from time to time. He posted a story about the Twin Towers that he said proved his god existed, but it was nonsense, and I responded to that effect. I can’t think of any way that post could be used to insinuate any sort of involvement on my part. Not sure why I missed all this, but often when there is a bunch of back and forth talk about things that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, I skip over it.

          • Kristen

            No idea, all I did was click on it and saw the pic, using logic. I have no idea either. Its all long over.

          • Sam

            “But at the roots of every troll is a deep psychological problem, so they still need people to try to see them as a person….IF the mask is ever lifted! Im studying with interest, its sad.”

            You have my condolences. The Kristen-Circus that never ends. Circus = trolling.

            “Many sites are a troll magnet, in here I think its because everyone is so different with differing beliefs, all strangers, so its easy to find targets and study everyone.”

            And you study and you study; the circus must go on.

            “remember in the ‘incident’”

            And the ‘incident’ you are bringing back at every breath. Typical trolling, stirring things up the best you can. Circus non-stop.

            “The stirring with ‘M’ crossed the line though, still bringing it up and pointing me as the bad guy”

            Typical Kristen-trolling turning it around; constantly bringing the past back, and then blame someone else for it.

            “Id rather be the target than Annie or anyone else, so redirected them to me,”

            And the “good-guy” costume.

            “Trolls are never sharks, just a jellyfish, they show their weak spots and jugular….often! Just classic Dark Tetrad personality types.”

            Well, you looking into the mirror has at least told you something. You should stop this ridiculous circus of yours.

          • Kristen

            Haha…far from being a troll here, sorry to ruin your fun.
            BTW you bought up ‘M’, therefore the incident, not me.
            Having fun?

          • Sam

            “Haha…far from being a troll here, sorry to ruin your fun.
            BTW you bought up ‘M’, therefore the incident, not me.”

            You brought up the aliens to me, and the incident to Raphael, which would involve M getting angry at you. You really think anyone would believe that I first would bring back the incident I like to put behind me? No, my dear, that is, of course, your game, for everyone to see; stirring, stirring, stirring. Making this place into just one big circus. You don’t care.

            Oh, and, that’s right, you had it in for me already from the very start. Studying me, singled me out. Starting out with your childish name calling, “Sam green eggs and Ham”, over and over, like being straight back to junior high, to bully the newcomer. Never been prouder?

          • Kristen

            Erm…Sam, go back to then.
            That thread turned into a sit com and people said who they would be. I cant recall all the names but know Annie said she would be Pebbles from the Flintstones, someone said Tabitha from Bewitched, someone else from the Flintstones etc.
            I hadnt heard of you or seen anything you posted, but you wrote a post that I assume was a reply….which simply said “Sam I Am”.
            Therefore I said Sam must be Sam I Am green eggs and ham, from Dr Suess. I included you when we were coming up with silly names, I had no idea if you were male or female, and you did join in the conversation, and seemed in a fun mood from what I recall.
            Why on Earth would I pick on anyone, especially a newcomer. If you noticed, you would see that I generally say hi to newcomers if no one replies to them so they feel included. A couple of years ago someone wrote a post, then another saying she felt like she was talking to herself. Which was sad….I said hi to Jethro when he first came in, and will often reply to newbies.
            This is so distorted Sam.
            Wheres the logic in me being a troll in a site for 5 years or so?
            K

          • Sam

            “Erm…Sam, go back to then.”

            I, of course, did, before telling you just now.

            “That thread turned into a sit com and people said who they would be”

            People said? More like your spin on everyone else. Quite the circus, then too.

            “I hadnt heard of you or seen anything you posted, but you wrote a post that I assume was a reply….which simply said “Sam I Am”.”

            Yes, you saw me, and even responded. You knew me just enough, and so saying “Sams obviously out of a Dr Seuss book”. And you had your phrase you throw around quite a number of times, pretty much right up to this day. Stirring.

            “Why on Earth would I pick on anyone, especially a newcomer. If you noticed, you would see that I generally say hi to newcomers if no one replies to them so they feel included.”

            Oh, I remember your first “hi”, all right, to me, some pretty mean things about Neale. Which I then, as just arriving, found surprising, as this, after all, is Neale’s place. A shocker. But anyway.

          • Sam

            Well, I’ve been a little tough on you, Patrick, so I guess I had that one coming. I think it’s called revenge :) But you’ve been pretty tough yourself, especially against Annie, and Neale as well, and should be able to take it, and if not, change your ways. Me a troll? Haven’t we had some pretty normal conversations also? About the future, about basic income, telling you about Hans Rosling, and etc. Classic trolling? From being in a bad place, don’t lose your foothold too :)

  • Spiritual_Annie

    Are posts being deleted? I see some of mine are gone. Anyone else?

    • Jethro

      None of mine sweetness. I’ve seen no problem. How’s the book coming? Is my ignorant words going to be there? I will buy the book just for that lol.

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Jethro,

        The book moves at its own pace, in spurts. It’s all outlined in detail, and I write when it flows naturally. I’ve tried to write when it’s not flowing easily, but the writing isn’t “me” when I do that.

        Hun, I wouldn’t have much to write about if there weren’t special people who have a way of speaking truths that motivate and inspire me. Of course some of your words of down-to-earth wisdom will be in it. I still have my file of “Jethroisms” to look through whenever I need some inspiration myself. It’s in the same folder as my “mewabeisms,” along with some others. I have made progress on the website this month, getting the premium WordPress theme I wanted. I’m playing with that a bit, too.

        I’ve lost a bit of focus lately. I finally got the paperwork from the pain doc to get a neurosurgeon consult! But when I took it in to an already scheduled visit with my PCP, he was distracted by a summer cold I have, which it turns out is pneumonia. Go figure. I went from sniffles and stuff draining down my throat to pneumonia in three days. A common hazard when anyone spends most of their time laying down, but the first time I’ve gotten it. It’s clearing up fast, though.

        How’s your traveling wisdom-based home repair work going? Meeting interesting new people? Sharing your bits of wisdom along the way? Staying on your wife’s good side? You remind me of the old troubadours who used to travel to entertain, but hidden in their music were insights and messages for those ready to hear them.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Jethro

          Annie it’s useless to force such a thing, I struggle a great deal with just these short little posts here, let alone a writing, lengthy enough, to call a book. I can argue almost everyone of my own statements and often do, everything I say includes, “BUT”. Things with work have been fairly stressful because I try too hard to satisfy everyone’s needs, which is getting in the way of some peoples wants. Scheduling is becoming a nightmare. Due to finances I’m having to replace some acts of kindness with charges and it’s a little painful. People will always be more important than money to me but it’s getting harder and harder to prove it. Vickie keeps me in reality quite a bit and it looks like my prices are going up yet again. My labor charges are near half of the nations plumbers and I will more than likely be at 80/hr. before long if I can’t find suitable employees soon. Here is another cruel trick of life. I make my living by crawling under houses often and I’m getting increasingly claustrophobic lol. My physical pain levels have been on the rise, actually to a pain pill the other day which I’m very much against for myself. Like you been having a hard time focusing, but what’s all that focus worth anyway? Just roll with it as needed and see what happens sometimes. Focus is for perfection that doesn’t exist.
          Outside of my mind, everything is going awesome. I have been blessed with wonderful customers and take care of some of the elder ones who just need an extra hand at times. I enjoy the older folks. So many of them need somebody. You can see the pain in their eyes from being lonely and feeling helpless. If I can find employees, I will be visiting those older people regularly to check on them. I have been welcomed as a family member in this little town and a couple others too, as I’ve been told I’m the only one who will actually show up.

          I could certainly go on and on about how I have been blessed, but that phone is starting to ring again and the clock is moving fast. I’ll get back to you this evening. Not finished

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Jethro,

            It’s difficult to place a monetary value on helping others, isn’t it? I feel like what I do with my writing and websites is a ministry more than a job, so it feels weird to make money from it. It sounds like you see your work the same way in at least some cases.

            I love the elderly. They have so much to share because they’ve lived the history I’ve only read about. I can listen to their stories for hours. I, too, see how many are lonely and make a point of checking up on some of them here. I’ve found that the loneliness comes both from their simply having lost so many people because of their age, and their feeling like no one has time for them. It means so much to them when someone cares enough to make the time to listen, and I gain so much when I do.

            I have claustrophobia myself. There’s no way I’d voluntarily crawl under houses. Just remember to breathe deeply and calmly, and remind yourself how many times you’ve done it successfully. You have a whole history of successes that prove you’ll be OK. I know logic’s hard during anxiety, but if you can get there, I’ve found it helps a lot.

            I’m sorry to hear your pain has been higher. I don’t like pain meds, either, though I wouldn’t mind a little relief now and then. Here in FL, because so much of the oxycontin being prescribed ended up on the streets being sold, it’s difficult to get any pain meds, even from pain management docs. I haven’t been prescribed any at all since I moved here, but my cough syrup has codeine in it. I don’t know how much it’s doing for my cough, but it’s taken the edge off of some of my pain. And that’s probably part of my lack of focus.

            Don’t forget—you’re not just the recipient of blessings, but you are a blessing in those little towns.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            Its very tough for me to charge some folks, but this stuff costs me quite a bit and I need to recoup. Some folks I bump up the price for having to deal with them! that’s few and far between thankfully. Hard to get along with or not, they’re human and everyone has a fair reason, usually some kind of abuse. You would think abuse would teach people that abuse is wrong.
            It’s funny that you say to keep telling myself how many times I’ve been under houses and been ok. That’s exactly what I do. I was under a house once and cut a 4″ sewer pipe that was full of water, it filled the crawl space with used toilet water to the point that no light could come through and I had to swim out. Yuk!!! I smelled really pretty. The worst time I had with tight spaces was when an apartment owner tunneled under four slab floors to repair leaks, I agreed to insulate the pipes in preparation for a slurry to be pumped in. I found out later that I was the only plumber that even entertained the idea of doing it, I could have charged a few more thousand dollars and they would have used me.
            My joint pains vary depending on the strain I put myself under, It’s not bad all the time. I stepped off a 15ft concrete wall and hit a rock about a foot under the water a few years ago, I hit so hard my head bounced through my butt. Thankfully my head lost it’s pointy tapered look after a moment or two, but I was as purple as a grape (a purple grape not the green ones) from my mid back almost to my knees. My heals felt shattered but were not broken. I tip toed for three months and I still can’t wear my riding boots or thin soled shoes for long periods of time. Years of being a cowboy plumber has taken it’s toll as well. I believe I shouldn’t complain much about self inflicted wounds, just teach others “they not ought do that”.
            It’s a shame that doctors have abused their privileges so much that people who need medication can’t receive it. If you want to screw something up real bad, replace common sense with politics. Have you tried non narcotic pain relievers? I use to have addicts request them when possible. Might even leave you a little less blurry.
            Our blessings are given and received daily if we choose to recognize it. I am blessed to bless another. It’s a great circle to keep going around. Thanks for encouragement!

            Love and Blessings Always

          • Patrick Gannon

            “It’s a shame that doctors have abused their privileges so much that people who need medication can’t receive it.”

            Not sure this is the fault of the doctors. One can blame the drug companies for high prices – perhaps – they put a lot of investment into developing new drugs. Remember it was only a handful of decades ago, when the drugs weren’t even an option because they didn’t exist. We forget that it wasn’t that long ago when the average age was much lower than it is now.

            One can also blame the insurance companies, and of course the government for putting in place a system that rewards the insurance companies and drug companies for high prices, by subsidizing them. I have begun to lean to a single-payer system, as this would provide the leverage other countries use to negotiate better drug prices.

            I really don’t think doctors, as a class, are to be blamed for the high prices.

          • Jethro

            I wasn’t referring to prices of drugs, I was referring to those who don’t prescribe them due to liability issues because the public took notice to how prescriptions were being given out irresponsibly. I agree though that insurance companies are to blame for a dysfunctional medical system. I also think it’s strange that I have to set through a commercial on television for a product I have to get through a doctors appointment. Looking at a humira commercial as I type.
            I have people ask me about the “medications” they can use on their drains. Each commercial shows how wonderful these chemicals work but don’t tell us how damaging it is to the natural bacteria, or the materials that make up their drains. They advertise a lie about lye. They don’t show the scars on my hands from chemical burns, and they don’t say to warn the plumber when the product fails to perform, which is often. I hate that these chemicals and the false information about them, are available to the public. When people ask what is the best thing they can put down their drain when it plugs, I say, a drain cable. Call a plumber for the right one. I personally use three sizes.
            I’m sure doctors are feeling the same way when patients walk in and tell them which drug to prescribe and an insurance company is doing the same thing with medication AND treatment. Too many Chiefs?

          • Kristen

            Just as a matter of interest..we have a free public health/hospital system here including all meds prescribed by a hospital. All hospital treatment is free including surgery, chemo etc. GP visits are around $50, but are free for all kids, the govt pays gps. The govt subsidises 90% of meds, including all contraception, anything other than the really expensive ones that just a few need, so all our prescriptions are a $5 flat rate. Whether its a prescription for 200 condoms, codeine, asthma meds or heart meds…so all are $5 a month. Including flu vaccinations.
            When a high user, that I think is 12 items, the rest for that year are free. All tests are free as well, plus maternity care etc.
            So are we healthy? Nope! And people still complain!
            xx

          • Kristen

            Gosh…read my post to Patrick below re our health system. We have no probs getting any meds. A couple of years ago my son cracked a rib, and was going skiiing the next day. The doc prescribed him 200 panadol, 50 codeine and 50 iboprophen. Nuts. An 18 year old! Just from a GP.
            He only took the panadol, thats enough, the rest crushed and binned!
            I think that we have a huge weed, P, booze and other problem, that prescription meds just arent sold on the streets, everything else is probably too easy to get, Asian are at the top of tbe drug chain, and a drinking age of 18 doesnt help.. Huge problems with synthetic weed at the moment, lawn clippings laced with anything…its killing teenagers, just like party pills did before they became illegal in all forms.
            If you went to a normal GP here youd get all the injections you needed plus whatever meds, at $5 per prescription for a months supply.
            Hope you’re feeling better.
            xx

          • Jethro

            Neale has posted a new conversation I hope to see your reply soon.

          • Kristen

            Thanks Jethro, Ill reply to it later. Ill type…then walk for a bit, that one needs to be a respectful one where people just read and listen to others opinions, nothing debatable in opinions, thank goodness! Although it wont happen, we all clearly read completely differently…..Ill give that one to Patrick…brain differences!
            Take care,
            xx

          • Jethro

            “that one needs to be a respectful one where people just read and listen to others opinions”
            Yes it does, Knowing you would think that way makes me want to read your post. Arguments are invitations that can be declined. Judgements are of no true concern unless we choose it. Comprehension will be a desirable trait in that string, along with acceptance. Though I’m sure other conversations will gain momentum through the week. I’m looking forward to it.

        • Kristen

          Hi Annie,
          Try writing your non fiction third person like fiction…it just flows easier.

  • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

    Looks like a new topic but same date and thread is continuing?

    By the way since some posts seem to be deleted and I and others are not getting notices when someone responds to us, I took the liberty of jumping through a lot of hoops at Disqus (reminds me I had beautiful discus fish in the past.)

    Anywho, and I finally found an email address to tell them what’s going on. I’ll post when they eventually respond.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Marko,

      Thank you. I hadn’t yet been able to find a way to get in touch with Disqus.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

        Well lets see what they eventually say, I got a note right away but it said they get so many emails it may take awhile. But at least they responded. That’s good.

  • Raphael

    In reply to a post that instantly vanished, about the tyranny and threats of “moralizing everything” and political correctness (I won’t mention the name of the poster since he apparently deleted his post, but I am responding as his argument is very often heard from politically conservative quarters):

    You are making very broad generalizations and mentioning political correctness, but if you really want to make a point of have a conversation you need to be more specific.

    To my knowledge, political correctness hasn’t killed anyone.

    It appears that those who have to fear for their lives are those who oppose extreme rightwing, conservative agendas:

    from Sept. 12, 2001, to Dec. 31, 2016 there have been 85 attacks in the country by violent extremists resulting in 225 deaths. GAO reported citing data from the U.S. Extremist Crime Database.

    Of those 225 deaths:

    • 106 individuals were killed by far-right violent extremists in 62 separate incidents;

    • 119 individuals were killed by radical Islamist violent extremists in 23 separate incidents;

    (in case anyone is confused, radical Islamists are extremely conservative, ideologically).

    • Sam

      “It seems that Sam may have a new, perhaps temporary, name-or a new friend- Sagemode…”

      Yep, enemies and friends, that’s pretty much sums your life up. I’m sure you keep long lists. Get a life? :)

    • Kristen

      Haha, you just got told to get a life!!!!!!
      Did someone forget you’re just a ghost, of the now dead guy formerly known as Professor Mewabe?
      Just make sure Im on the enemies list.

      • Raphael

        Told by who, Donald Trump? I blocked both Sam and Sagemode…you know, too much excitement all at once can be detrimental to your health.

        What kind of life should I get? There is so much choice out there, does he have something specific in mind?

        Yes it is great being dead…I can walk through walls and inspect the electrical work and insulation, and dead bugs…quite thrilling!

        • Kristen

          Exactly why I dont block…people can still reply to you, you just cant see it. To me that defeats the purpose, especially with two certain people…they get the last say. And thats the game! So I pass things on sometimes.
          Sam quoted you saying he may have a new friend Sagemode, then “Yep, enemies and friends, that’s pretty much sums your life up. I’m sure you keep long lists. Get a life? :)”.
          No doubt you’ll be told what kind of life you should get! As long as it involves your lists of friends and ememies it should be fun!
          Excitement…whats that? I forgot! Is it a ghost thing?

          • Raphael

            Oh yes but since I want Sam/Sagemode to be happy in Troll land, I want him to have the last say…as long as I don’t have to see it.

            The child wants the last say…the adult says….okay!

          • Kristen

            Exactly.

        • Sam

          “By whom? I blocked both Sam and Sagemode…you know, too much poison all at once can be detrimental to your health.”

          Good to know it’s not specifically me; you are blocking “everybody”; sitting in a closet making up monsters. Not very healthy :)

  • Sam

    Sagemode wrote:
    “I think it’s sad that the world today is moving into the direction of moralizing everything you could or could ever not do to the point where behaviours, mindsets and opinions are now being policed to such an extent that you must fear for your life if you have any opinion at all.
    1984 is here and it is today called political correctness. People are cracking down on racism by being racist, are promoting equal opportunity by taking opportunity away, want to give voice to lesser privileged people by taking it away from those they consider more privileged, and so on, and so on.
    There is a form of revenge going on against the cultures that have dominated this world for the last couple of centuries and in this revenge the same acts are committed against those who once committed those acts themselves. But as with any rebellion, the rebels will soon usurp the throne and become the new dictators. Read Animal Farm again, people…
    Minds are closing down. I never expected or anticipated this.”

    • Kristen

      Why didnt you just reply to Sagemode?
      Is it you?
      If so, Raphael says Hi, asked me to pass it on.

  • Sam

    Sagemode wrote:
    “I don’t know what’s going on. Are all posts being moderated?”

    Yes, the same old problem. Everyone new gets brutally stopped by Disqus in the beginning, then to gradually let through. I think the administrator has to manually approve you, to speed up this process.

    • Sam

      Sagemode wrote:
      “Thanks. I don’t know why they first show up and later get hidden. That’s some really fishy algorithm. I am a programmer. I don’t like the current world.”

      Fishy algorithm is to say it mildly. There’s been no end to the speculations causing the erratic behavior. But then suddenly things seem normal again, and we forget all about for a while.
      I like your ability to see both sides. That is “double trouble” to sort out, and not for everybody. But what I believe is in need making a better world. It’s not humans vs monsters, but humans vs humans, and then have the understanding to throw away the “vs” and find the common ground.