Worldwide Discussion:
IS POPE FRANCIS A ‘MARXIST’
OR IS HE RIGHT ABOUT OUR WORLD?

Is the Pope right? Is it time for the whole world to take stock of who we are as a people, what we set as our priorities, how we determine our most important values, and when enough is enough of consumerism and the seemingly endless push for Bigger/Better/More?

Or is Pope Francis the one who needs to take stock, and stop filling the air with his criticisms of humanity’s behaviors and tendencies?

U.S. talk show host Rush Limbaugh appears to think the latter. Reacting to the Pontiff’s latest news-making statements criticizing certain aspects of today’s capitalism, Mr. Limbaugh described the Pope’s observations as “pure Marxism.”
What has the radio host upset is the widely-reported document written by the head of the Roman Catholic Church that “poses a fierce challenge to the status quo,” in the words of a Jesuit priest and author, Father James Martin, as quoted in a CNN news story.

Released on Nov. 26, the document has received worldwide attention — as it was intended to, having been composed by Pope Francis explicitly for distribution to all of the Catholic faithful and all official members of the church family in every parish and diocese across the planet. It also has received worldwide acclaim from politically liberal Catholics everywhere, and not so nice responses from those of a more conservative bent.

“How can it be,” the Pope asked in the document, “that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points?”

Last May the Pontiff received global news coverage when he said that in recent times the Catholic Church has grown too “obsessed” (to use his own word) with being ecclesiastically correct (my words for the spiritual version of being “politically correct”), focusing on social issues such as gay marriage, abortion, and contraception, while refusing to look at, much less battle against, the idea of so-called trickle-down economics and the world of inequality it produces.

So who is right? Has the Pope gone too far? Or is the Holy Father simply  “telling it like it is” to a global horde not used to being so publicly scolded for its behaviors?

The communication — officially known in Latin as Evangelli Gaudium (The Joy of the Gospel) — is a 95-page sweeping call for reform within the Roman Catholic Church regarding its mission and method of outreach, but it contained some sharp comments about the larger world outside the church and its economic inequalities.

The “idolatry of money” has created “inequality that spawns violence,” and could, the Pope warned, produce a “new tyranny.”  Francis also had some harsh words for those “trickle-down economics” — a phrase most contemporarily associated with the late U.S. President Ronald Reagan, who preferred to use the words “supply-side economics” to describe a system of tax cuts and other monetary perks to businesses, on the theory that the economic benefit would trickle down to people at the lower end of the economic scale.

The press began to call this idea “Reaganomics,” though the economic model has not been limited in its application to the United States. The Pope made it very clear he believes the idea “expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power.”

“Meanwhile,” he added, “the excluded are still waiting.”

“Sad” and “unbelievable” is how Mr. Limbaugh described the Pope’s comments. “It’s sad because this Pope makes it very clear he doesn’t know what he’s talking about when it comes to capitalism and socialism and so forth,” the conservative talk show host declared.

Is Mr. Limbaugh right? Is what the Pope is saying “pure Marxism?” Does a policy of  “trickle-down economics” create disparity and huge gaps between the rich and the poor, or do the benefits experienced by the rich indeed trickle down to the poor?

According to Lauren McCauley, staff writer for the website Common Deams, the answer to the second part of that question is no.

Ms. McCauley wrote a report published on that website last April in which she said, “The great wealth divide in the United States has only become more exacerbated since the recession, as national policies have buoyed only the wealthiest Americans while the remainder have been left adrift.”

Her report, headlined Wealthy Thrive and Poorest Dive as Surge in US Inequality Continues, said that according to a new analysis of Census Bureau data published by the Pew Research Center, since the economy officially emerged from the recession in mid-2009, “the wealthiest 7 percent of households saw soaring gains of an estimated $5.6 trillion, while the remaining 93 percent—111 million households—saw their overall wealth fall by an estimated $0.6 trillion.”

“It has been a very good recovery for those at the upper end of the wealth distribution,” Ms. McCauley quoted Mr. Paul Taylor, executive vice president of the Pew Research Center and co-author of the report, as saying. “But,” Mr. Taylor added, “there has been no recovery for the lower 93, which is nearly everybody.”

Indeed, statistics easily available show that over 20% of U.S. income now goes to the richest 1% of Americans. That figure was just 7% in 1980.

Paul Buchheit is a college teacher, an active member of US Uncut Chicago, founder and developer of social justice and educational websites (UsAgainstGreed.org, PayUpNow.org, RappingHistory.org), and the editor and main author of American Wars: Illusions and Realities (Clarity Press). Mr. Buchheit has compiled these statistics:

Based on 1980 dollars and IRS data, this is how U.S. income has been redistributed since that time:

  • Incomes for the top 1% have gone from $148,000 to $450,000
  • Incomes for the next 9% have gone from $46,000 to $50,000
  • Incomes for the next 40% have gone from $17,500 to $15,000
  • Incomes for the bottom 50% have gone from $5,400 to $3,750

So there you have it. Mr. Limbaugh may find the comments by Pope Francis regarding trickle-down economics “unbelievable,” but are they? Or is what Pope Francis has called the world out on something that the wealthiest people simply don’t want to believe?

What do you believe…? Your comments and observations are invited below.

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  • Bob Coletti

    Oh, boy. Here we go again Neale. This type of “discussion” is pointless as both sides will dig in and we will gain nothing. Let’s stop looking for ways to disagree and start finding common ground to come together on, like respect for ALL, love ALWAYS and acceptance of differing thoughts. Divide and conquer like Caesar and today’s politicans OR CWG philosophy of no right and wrong, all one and coming together as a commUNITY

    • NealeDonaldWalsch

      CWG does indeed say that “there is no such thing as Right or Wrong.” It also says: “There is only what works, and what does not work, given what it is you are trying to do.”

      To offer an observation about what works and what does not work is not about failing to look for common ground, Bob, but just the opposite. It is the first step in finding</i< common ground. One has to uncover and express differing points of view in order to find a point of view in the middle. Living like an ostrich with one's head it the sand — the old "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" routine — positively guarantees that evil will continue.

      You can take the approach that you feel most comfortable in, Bob, but for me, if I hear a train coming down the tracks, I am going say something about it while my car is at the crossroad — whether or not someone else in the car disagrees and says that I'm just hearing things. Disagreement should not preclude discussion, but, in fact, encourage it.

      So I disagree with you here, Bob. But if I looked only for ways in which we agreed, I could not even have placed my comment here.

      Hmmmm….

      • Bob Coletti

        Brother Neale, what does not work, imho, is lawyers. They cannot exist if people work together for solutions. They have studied the “rule book”, and created enough rules to ensure THEIR success as well as our constant disputes. The TLA is the biggest lobby in the US, and many of the peoples “representatives” are their brethren. Want to solve world issues… Simplify laws do all can understand and eliminate the legal “profession.” Our economy is held at gunpoint by regulators and manipulators. But economy is NOT OUR GOAL, is it Neale? Being happy is. Can’t fix the world. Can only fix myself and shine the light.

        • Bob Coletti

          As far as the ostrich, dude… I’ve been observing the ostriches my entire life. I don’t walk blindly, but i cannot fight against any thing. I must yield and allow the flow of love energy. To find fault with any other, for any reason, just seems plain contrary to all i have learned about God and His love. Pushing against causes more, no?

          • Awareness

            “What you resist persists. What you look at disappears” – “Conversations with God” 🙂

          • mewabe

            You cannot fight against anything?
            So…should someone come come to your house with the intent to burn it down, you would let it happen?
            Would you yield to a man who rapes your daughter?

            To be spiritual is not to be a sheep headed for slaughter…this was the mistake the Jews made during world war 2…and they learned from their mistake, that never again would they yield to persecutors.

            New age teachings are as dangerous as ANY OTHER DOGMA, because they TOTALLY OVERSIMPLIFY reality when given without context or taken out of context.

            “What you resist persists”…okay, that is true in some cases, but the EXACT OPPOSITE is equally true in other circumstances….”what you ALLOW persists”.

            For example, allow termites to take over your house, and soon you have no house. And looking at termites is not enough to make them disappear.

            Neither is looking at a predatory economic system enough to make it disappear.

          • Awareness

            Again the interpretation of “What you resist persists. What you look at disappears” brings up the following reminder:

            “Words are the least reliable purveyor of truth.” – “Conversations with God” 🙂

            From my view resistance can also come in the area if thought 🙂
            I feel that the following quote from Eckhart Tolle interprets “What you resist persists. What you look at disappears” in the way it was intended:

            “Non-resistance is vital because as long as you are in resistance to the present moment, you will be trapped in the little egoic will. The egoic will needs to subside – that’s surrender to the present moment, and surrender to what is. When you align yourself with what is internally, it looks at first almost like a position of weakness, and it can be misinterpreted as something that prevents you from taking effective action. But the acceptance of what is, is totally compatible with responding to whatever the present moment requires. Whatever wants to be created, manifested, done, at this moment – to be aligned with that, you need to first accept whatever form this moment takes.”

            “If you are stuck in the mud somewhere, you don’t say, “Okay, I am in the mud, I have to accept it, and here I am – I’m not taking any action because I have to accept what is”. This moment is already always as it is, and there’s nothing you can do about that. That’s what you accept. Then, action that arises has a different energy to it. The will that flows into what you do is no longer egoic. When you have not accepted this moment, the will goes against the Universe – that is what the ego does. It is negative, it fights something that it says shouldn’t be there. If you use negativity, you are trapped in ego. The “little will” has to subside for the more powerful will to flow through and deal with the situation. It creates, it is not isolated from the totality. It is one with the totality. When that operates, another word for that universal will is intelligence. It’s only when you look at a situation, completely accept the is-ness of this moment, and then of course action may be required.

            Once the opening is there, through acceptance, the next step that you take will be much more powerful. There’s a Buddhist term “right action”, that can only arise out of the right state of Consciousness. You have to get out of the ego first before you can have right action. The Buddha was talking about that which flows from the awakened state of consciousness. To surrender the little will is to say ‘yes’ to the present moment. It’s not a big thing, just say yes to what is – because it already is anyway. Why complain about something that is? It’s insane, but normal.

            To give up the egoic will, all you have to do is not complain about what is. Be aligned with the isness – people, situations, whatever – this is already as it is. It’s the inevitability of is. Become friendly with what is, and you become intelligent for the first time.

            With the simple act of surrender to the inevitability of the present moment, another energy comes. You could call that universal will, you could call that intelligence, you could call that the creative solution to whatever the so-called “problem” is. You could call that power coming in, that is greater than the limited power of your mind. Or it may use your mind, and suddenly you say the right thing, if that’s what the situation requires. Suddenly the words come – where do the words come from? You don’t know what you’re going to say next. They come from a deeper level because that intelligence uses the mind.

            You and the Universe become one, and as such it creates through you as this form. That’s the beauty of it. When the unmanifested flows into this world, it assumes form. Most thoughts that people have in the unawakened state are repetitive old thoughts, conditioned thinking, conditioned by the past. All you can rely on then is what you have accumulated in the past, you deal with things through conditioned thinking. When the simple act of surrender opens your mind, it can then be used as an instrument. Then, a thought may come in that is original and fresh and new. That is the birth of form. The birth of thought creates the birth of form. The Universe uses you as a vehicle or a channel through which to create. You are one. It can use your mind, and become thought, words, physical things. That’s the way in which the mind can actually be a helpful tool – alignment with the greater Intelligence, the One Consciousness.

            It all starts with the present moment, and your relationship with the present moment. Friend or enemy? Are you allowing it, or are you fighting it, resisting it? That’s the end of ego – because the ego needs resistance. The ego survives through complaining, it survives through denying, or wanting something else.

            The present moment is the teacher. Work with that – that’s all you need, really. That’s the end of the “little will”, which isn’t all that powerful anyway. Whatever it creates, creates more problems.

            It seems so simple, and it is simple. And yet, because of the many thousands of years of habit-patterns, often people tell me “It’s so difficult to be in the present moment and allow it to be”. Of course, the opposite is true. Life becomes difficult if you don’t. What you accept is the form of this moment. No more. Then, see what’s needed. You are not truly intelligent until that happens.

            Sometimes holding that space of simple Presence activates other factors that then come in, seemingly, from the outside to change the situation. You have activated the intelligence of the totality. It’s not necessarily coming through this form. That is why people speak of synchronistic things happening, suddenly a helpful factor comes in, suddenly the right person appears, the right thing happens. Almost miraculous when you don’t know that it’s natural, it seems like a miracle at first because most humans are not used to that.

            When you hold Presence, sometimes the change may not happen through your action. There are many situations where action at this moment is not possible. Sometimes there’s nothing you can do, however you can continue to be present. Then, a greater intelligence is activated. Very often you will find change happening in the situation.

            This greater intelligence is not the conceptual intelligence that you can measure with IQ tests. It is non-conceptual intelligence. Conceptual intelligence is the ability to retain information, analyze, compare, and so forth. It’s a tiny fragment of what intelligence is. There is a vastness of non-conceptual intelligence. Our destiny is to be in that way, so that our whole life is to become a work of art. Not just be confined to that state of consciousness when you do your creative work. Any creative thing has a spark, an aliveness, a quality, a newness, a freshness. You connect with non-conceptual intelligence in the alert Stillness within. Everybody has that, as their essence. That is true intelligence. To what extent you are connected with that could not possibly be measured through any IQ test. Ultimately, you cannot measure creativity.” – Eckhart Tolle 🙂

            Bless ALL 🙂

          • mewabe

            In the words of Lao Tzu, from Ch’u Ta Kao:

            “Man when living is soft and tender; when dead, he is hard and tough.
            All animals and plants are tender and fragile; when dead, they become withered and dry.
            Therefore it is said: the hard and tough are part of death; the soft and yielding are part of life.
            This is the reason why soldiers when they are too tough cannot carry the day; the tree when it is too tough will break.
            The position of the strong and great is low, and the position of the weak and tender is high.”

            Or…as said centuries later: ” The meek shall inherit the earth”.

            Lao Tzu, Ch’u Ta Kao:

            “The highest good is like water. Water is beneficent to all things but does not contend. It stays in lowly places which others despise. Therefore it is near Tao.”

            “He who knows the masculine and yet keeps to the feminine (meaning yielding) will become a channel drawing all the world towards it; being a channel for the world, he will not be severed from the eternal virtue (meaning Tao).
            And then he can return again to the state of infancy” (meaning spontaneity).

            Non resistance is the TAOIST principle upon which all martial arts are based…using the energy of an adversary to defeat him, thus beautifully demonstrating, in a very visible and practical manner, that all aggression is aggression against the self, all fear is fear of the self, and all resistance is resistance against the self (that is to say an aspect of the self that has been rejected and that needs to be reintegrated with the self).

            As far as the present, it is simple because THERE IS NOTHING ELSE. The past is a memory and the future is a thought. Therefore, the less we live in our mind, the more we live in our soul, in our true nature (Tao), the more we are immersed in the present, here (infinity) and now (eternity).

            Have you read Krishnamurti? I recommend him…especially The First and Last Freedom.

          • Awareness

            No (I will read up on him thanks), but I just read the following great quote from KFA (Krishnamurti Foundation of America) website 😉

            “The core of Krishnamurti’s teaching is contained in the statement he made in 1929 when he said ‘Truth is a pathless land’. Man cannot come to it through any organisation, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, not through any philosophical knowledge or psychological technique. He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection. Man has built in himself images as a fence of security – religious, political, personal. These manifest as symbols, ideas, beliefs. The burden of these images dominates man’s thinking, his relationships and his daily life. These images are the causes of our problems for they divide man from man. His perception of life is shaped by the concepts already established in his mind. The content of his consciousness is his entire existence. This content is common to all humanity. The individuality is the name, the form and superficial culture he acquires from tradition and environment. The uniqueness of man does not lie in the superficial but in complete freedom from the content of his consciousness, which is common to all mankind. So he is not an individual.

            Freedom is not a reaction; freedom is not a choice. It is man’s
            pretence that because he has choice he is free. Freedom is pure
            observation without direction, without fear of punishment and reward. Freedom is without motive; freedom is not at the end of the evolution of man but lies in the first step of his existence. In observation one begins to discover the lack of freedom. Freedom is found in the choiceless awareness of our daily existence.

            Thought is time. Thought is born of experience, of knowledge, which are inseparable from time. Time is the psychological enemy of man. Our action is based on knowledge and therefore time, so man is always a slave to the past.

            When man becomes aware of the movement of his own consciousness he will see the division between the thinker and the thought, the observer and the observed, the experiencer and the experience. He will discover that this division is an illusion. Then only is there pure observation which is insight without any shadow of the past . This timeless insight brings about a deep radical mutation in the mind. Total negation is the essence of the positive. When there is negation of all those things which are not love – desire, pleasure – then love is, with its compassion and intelligence.” – Krishnamurti, London, October 21, 1980 🙂

            The Law of Gratitude is Given 🙂

          • mewabe

            Krishamurti raised important questions and invited people to think deeper on the nature of reality. It is worth reading. However he inherited a thinking tradition, from India, which defined desire as being a problem (so does Buddhism). I disagree with this in part, but it would take too long to explain why. Succintely, pleasure and desire are not problems, anymore than physical life is a problem. The problem is to attempt to grasp and hold these things…to fear their end…to not accept that all is temporary…and to think that the temporary, the ephemeral is unreal…to seek the eternal while believing that the eternal is static and never changing.

            The eternal can only be found in the present moment, and the present moment is forever in a state of flux…that’s the paradox. So to be in sink with the present moment, one must not grab and hold on to anything, but flow with life, as does water. This is what Taoism calls returning to the supreme identity (the Tao…meaning nature, spontaneity, the state of the child).

            This is the exact opposite of what most people on a spiritual path seek, as they want to hold on to a theology, to solid beliefs, to a set system of thoughts, to make sense of the world around them. Doing so, they erect mental walls that prevent them from being what they truly are…which is simply life, here and now, in spontaneous movement and in harmony with all life that is also in movement, in flux.

            Another recommendation, two books by Alan Watts, two real gems:
            “The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are”
            “Nature, Man and Woman”
            First published in the 60’s but still in print.

          • Awareness

            Thank you I will read those books 🙂 I also wondered about what Krishnamurti said about desire and pleasure, but I considered that he may be looking at it from a certain view (as you know words are subject to interpretation). Consider for example the following quote from “Conversatons with God”:

            “The world is filled with essentially two kinds of people: those who give you things you want, and those who fix things. In a sense, even those who simply give you things you want—the butchers, the bakers, the candlestick makers—are also fixers. For to have a desire for something is often to have a need for it. That is why addicts are said to need a fix. BE CAFEFUL, therefore, that desire not become addiction” 🙂

            And desire can serve life when seeking “truth”, for example “Conversations with God” says:

            “What do you think brought you to this material? How does it come to pass that you are holding it in your hands? Do you think I know not what I am doing?

            There are no coincidences in the universe.

            I have heard the crying of your heart. I have seen the searching of your soul. I know how deeply you have DESIREd the Truth. In pain have you called out for it, and in joy. Unendingly have you beseeched Me. Show Myself. Explain Myself. Reveal Myself.

            I am doing so here, in terms so plain, you cannot misunderstand. In language so simple, you cannot he confused. In vocabulary so common, you cannot get lost in the verbiage.” 🙂

            GOD (GREAT SPIRIT! GREAT CREATOR!) is beautiful 🙂

            Bless ALL 🙂

          • Melissa S

            Thank you for posting this! Awful doesn’t even begin to describe this past year of my life. A week ago, I wrote a message to myself on my white board about ‘less resistance’. Your excerpt was perfect to illuminate all the details of what I had identified as the way I am ‘helping’ to keep these endless problems coming. I first learned this in 1989–but somewhere along the way, I forgot to live what I know. Thank you.

          • Awareness

            I am extremely pleased that you found this useful 🙂 The Law of Gratitude is Given 🙂

            Bless ALL 🙂

        • mewabe

          I agree, lawyers are a symptom of the sickness of our social systems…that seem to aim for the total control and enslavement of the individual by invisible legal chains.

          Laws grow every year to the point that you can be certain that we are all unknowingly breaking a Federal, State, County or City law or regulation at this very moment, as even lawyers cannot keep up with their legislator kins. Bureaucrats appear to have nothing better to do than imagine ever more perverted ways to make our lives increasingly difficult. Is there a secretly sadistic aspect to this? One could easily be tempted to believe so…as there is frequently a correlation between power and sadism.

          But we CAN fix the world, when we know HOW. The problem is that most of humanity does not know how.

          It would however be simple…BE HUMAN, in other words fully understand and practice what BEING HUMAN means! This means going back to our origins…which is consciousness.

  • Louise van der Wees

    The Pope has a right to express his opinion – so does Mr. Limbaugh. However, I find it kind of wry that this comes from the Pope (unless he is going to follow up his statement with some drastic action from the Vatican) – since the Vatican is the richest single investor that exists. So it would be good to see the Vatican dividing and sharing its money, selling its treasures and putting that money to good use – words can be cheap (no matter how intelligent and correct they are) -actions would be interesting

    • mewabe

      The Vatican, as do all elite organizations and people, uses its money to wield power, indeed contributing to the sickness the Pope condemns…funny how very few people have caught that one! Thanks for doing so…

      • Victor

        My comment above was originally here:

        I wrote a comment about this, but for some reason, my PC didn´t published it and was erased.

        Resumed briefly:

        Yes, we know indeed the hipocrisy of Catholic Church, and more about what is related to luxury, profits, and economic wealth.

        But anyway, two thumbs up for the Pope in this subject.

        He simply has brought a topic into high visibility due to his role as
        head of the Catholic Church. And man! in the terms he has brought it,
        not a little thing!

        He must be about to be crucified for this, he,he…

        And it´s not a bad thing that this topic is brought into view,
        because, it is so, so obvious that an economic system that produces and
        perpetuates that ´those who have´ have more, and ´those who don´t have,
        have less, is not in the best interest of all; that precisely it becomes
        not so obvious for millions of people in the planet, due to the
        satanization campaigns of vilification as ´reds´. ´communists´.
        ´marxists´, etc., of anybody that dares to talk and promote some kind of
        common good for all…

        So, Francis, I´m not a catholic and I don´t agree with any
        power-driven religion -virtually, all-, but in this, I give you my both
        thumbs up…

        • mewabe

          The traveling comment…ha ha…going around the page, finding its most comfortable spot, its original place at last! Aaaaaah…

          Yes, the Pope said something that seems to indicate an awakening of some sort of religious conscience and a bit of stiffening of the previously jello-like spinal column. Hallelujah!

          But, isn’t it totally absurd that everyone gasps or claps at what some old man in a position of authority, who dresses funny and has a funny hat, says, when most anyone around the street corner has said the same thing for other a century?

          Isn’t it odd that humanity still pays attention to such leaders and still revers any kind of leadership and authority?

          How long will people remain children, waiting for a daddy in a funny costume to think and speak for them?

          Why even pay attention to such nonsense? Don’t we have better things to do, such as actually changing the world?

  • Melissa S

    I believe that both perspectives are accurate. The Pope has called it exactly like it is, and people taking offense at hearing the truth should aim their attention on that truth they don’t like, not on the messenger who spoke it.

    Meanwhile, the Rush Limbaughs of the world can accurately say that trickle down economics have absolutely delivered what they promise. A synonym for “trickle” is drip, and this perfectly describes how our country’s wealth is being spread. Those who have the ability to turn on the faucet can fill their glass to overflowing immediately and as often as they like. They don’t have to care or even notice how much water is wasted in the process of filling their glass. After all, the water they waste is what’s going to “trickle down” so others can have a drink too. Those without access to the faucet and who need a drink of water to survive get to hold their glass out and HOPE they collect enough drops to survive. I suggest that, the next time Rush is thirsty, he go hold a glass under a faucet with a slow drip–a trickle–and attempt to quench his thirst in this way. If the trickle method is so wonderful, he’ll have no complaints about using the method to quench his thirst and will deem it a wonderful way to get a drink every time he needs one, multiple times a day.

    • mewabe

      In your example Rush Limbaugh not only should place his glass under a leaky faucet, but, to be more realistic and accurate, under one that delivers water that contains pathogens and pollution from industry, as most of the poor people of the world do.

      • Victor

        I wrote a comment about this, but for some reason, my PC didn´t published it and was erased.

        Resumed briefly:

        Yes, we know indeed the hipocrisy of Catholic Church, and more about what is related to luxury, profits, and economic wealth.

        But anyway, two thumbs up for the Pope in this subject.

        He simply has brought a topic into high visibility due to his role as head of the Catholic Church. And man! in the terms he has brought it, not a little thing!

        He must be about to be crucified for this, he,he…

        And it´s not a bad thing that this topic is brought into view, because, it is so, so obvious that an economic system that produces and perpetuates that ´those who have´ have more, and ´those who don´t have, have less, is not in the best interest of all, that precisely it becomes not so obvious for millions of people in the planet, due to the satanization campaigns of vilification as ´reds´. ´communists´. ´marxists´, etc., of anybody that dares to talk and promote some kind of common good for all…

        So, Francis, I´m not a catholic and I don´t agree with any power-driven religion -virtually, all-, but in this, I give you my both thumbs up…

        • mewabe

          I have read that this Pope once worked as a bouncer…perhaps he can bounce the profit-makers as well as the war-makers out the door?

          • Victor

            Hope so…

            Now he only can do two things, in general: or he continues rocking the boat as he´s started to do…

            Or just repents for it, he,he…

  • Andreina Villar-Woodworth

    I’m not sure. I lean towards the Pope since I dislike Limbaugh and find him extremely sensationalist. It’s not the message as much as the messenger in this case. Anyhow, I don’t think our system as it is works. Left and right in extreme have shown to be an utter failure, therefore we haven’t figured out how to live together inclusively, and in peace. As long as we base our system in power, it will possibly not work. We have to reinvent the way we live and interact as a society. Our priorities are way too meaningless.

    • NealeDonaldWalsch

      I agree, my friend. My book The Only Thing That Matters makes the point that what most human beings do not understand is that they are after the “wrong stuff.” Their priorities have little, if anything, to do with the reason we, as sentient beings, are on the Earth. Humanity’s priorities are, to use your very well chosen word, “meaningless.” I agree. Profoundly.

      • Andreina Villar-Woodworth

        Wow thanks Neale! I’ve been told I’m looking too far ahead when I’ve said that in the past. The thing is that if something doesn’t work you need to change it. Thank you again for your reply it means a lot more than you think. Have a good day!

  • Namaste

    “My Kingdom is not of this world.”

  • Stephen mills

    When the wealth gap get,s this extreme it can only end one way ? We have seen this cyclical effect before in1929 when the wealth gap was similar to what we have today .The system plays out to it,s logical conclusion,s .

    But I think this time the outcomes could be alot worse folks ! Is there no end to greed ? When will we put restrictions or limits on wealth when we know that this could lead to the breakdown of society or rather it is leading to the breakdown of society when is enough enough ?

    The true treasure,s are in our heart,s .

    • Michael L

      Stephen,
      Love has no limits. When we get away from the separateness we are feeling now. Wealth will flow freely.

      • Stephen mills

        I agree but much work has to be done to get there !

        So until we do a geo political solution will have to be put in place until we naturally do what is in the highest interest of all.Some rules and limits have to be built into the system to stop it from rotting even further !

        People do love but most have a narrow definition of this to their close family or small community.Set the rules so all of us are included until we evolve to the point that we do and be this naturally .

        At the moment the rules where set by the rich for the rich these economic royalist,s do not care about the poor or free education for everyone or equal oppertunity it,s all about power .

  • Contentttt

    It is all energy! Money holds an energy. The money energy has grown stronger and stronger as human’s turned from bartering and exchanging talents and abilities, to trading MONEY! MONEY has for many an intoxicating energy, like an addiction energy has for many people! The more money one has the more money one often feels they need to feel safe and secure! The poor want it and the rich want more of it!

    After all, how will any EMPIRE continue to exist without Money?

    The Catholic Empire is founded on money and wealth and power! Capitalism encourages the accumulation of money and we have observed, with money comes wealth and power.

    If the Catholic Empire is going to talk the talk…..then existing isolated behind their walls of gold will not work. If they are going to talk the talk, then they are going to have to change their ways also and walk the walk.

    Although I am not a Rush fan and find him quite humorous. At least he is being honest. Capitalism has given him his wealth and he is not interested in anything changing that would effect the flow of incoming wealth and his power over people through his money making syndicated gibberish radio program.

    When the Pope says to the worldwide catholic contingent, keep your money, we have enough, you need it worse than we do. Then the Pope will truly start walking the walk!!! Until then it is just Pope and Rush gibberish!

    So are you ready to share your wealth Neale, or do you like the power it gives to you that 99% of the people cannot relate too either??? How has the power of money changed you in the last 15 years NDW??? When are you going to write a book or hold a conference or seminar and offer the opportunity to everyone for free??

    When are you going to demonstrate to everyone the NDW Empire is not like the Catholic Empire and the Rush Limbaugh Empire?

    Until then….it is JUST TALK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing more…Nothing less!!!

    • Michael L

      Conetttt,
      Neale may come here to write about his altruistic ways. Which are many.

      But I write this to try to hear from you, why you attack so hard those that have security.
      Are you not one of them, if not why not?

      • Contentttt

        Michael L!
        I gave away everything I had. What I receive from the gifts I give, are gift given from other’s but never expected from others. I do not charge, I never have and I never will for the many ways I help others.

        I could have written 15 books or more in the last 15 years. But, if I write a book, then receive the benefits, was it only from My Self that the financial gain was realized? NO! What I have is a gift, it will always and in ALL ways be given as a gift!

        Until Neale was presented with the communication that lead to the CWG books would he have written those books! So is Neale is just regurgitating what was presented to him and now he acts like he is the expert? Is he not only just a messenger or the vessel through which the communication took place? Neale is now the CWG guru!!

        These books were channeled through him! He is only as wise as the information associated with the communication he put into writing!!

        97% of the books that are written are channeled energy of thought and words of expression from sources beyond the human body that sets claim to the information in the books. Music works the same way!

        I have virtually no money and have not for more than 13 years been living on the edge and the brink of being on the street like Neale was at one time!

        I don’t attack anyone! I question their ability to be honest with everyone! I own no home, have no dependable income and have had many times…..$0 in my billfold and to my name.

        When a person has a lot…giving a little is nothing!
        Like the woman in the Bible!
        She had two coins and she gave one away for the benefit of others.

        So when Neale gives away 50% or more of everything his has….then come talk to me!
        I encourage Neale to give it ALL away!
        But then he would have to be secure within his Self, like I AM, to ever make that choice! But he never will!! Why? Because he is far more popular now than he was before! Some people like the attention on THEIR terms!

        I do not worry, nor am I concerned for what might be!
        If it is to be, then I will learn from it!

        When you have given it all away to others as I have, then come talk to me Michael L!!!! When every day of your life is spent on the edge of an uncertain future….then come talk to me Michael L.

        Your assumption is I am like you and others whom embrace the CWG….but I AM Not!!

    • mewabe

      There is some truth in what you say…neither Mother Theresa nor Jesus charged for their services.

      When a person speaks of spirituality, others expect that person to be spiritual…that is often not the case.

      Teachers are very often people who can TALK but cannot DO. I learned this in art school….as my art teachers were not good enough artists, they taught instead.

      So take the teaching if you relate to it and DO as much as you can yourself…without wanting to attack the teacher, for s/he only a teacher, not a saint. Yet, granted, when a person ACTS “holy”, then s/he making himself, herself vulnerable to criticism…because talking and acting have nothing to do with BEING, and being is measured by its most direct and honest expressions, which are direct and simple actions.

      Hopefully most people will some day realize that they need no teachers, for our souls already know it all (being IT), and that’s all we need to listen and answer to.

      • Contentttt

        “Hopefully most people will some day realize that they need no teachers, for our souls already know it all (being IT), and that’s all we need to listen and answer to.”

        NICELY STATED MEWABE

        • mewabe

          Thank you Contentttt…

  • Awareness

    “The idea behind the statement “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” is not evil, it is beautiful. It is simply another way of saying you are your brother’s keeper. It is the implementation of this beautiful idea that can become ugly.

    Sharing must be a way of Life, not an edict imposed by government. Sharing should be voluntary, not forced.” – “Conversations with God” by Neale Donald Walsch 🙂

    Bless ALL 🙂

    • mewabe

      As it was among Native Americans, who chose as their “leaders” the most generous individuals, those who placed the interests of the people even before their own.
      Yes, being a leader does require, or should require, an extraordinary ability to LOVE. It does not mean that one should end up crucified, but that self-interest should not be the ruling factor in leadership.

    • Michael L

      I was watching a TV special where the pilgrims tried that idea.

      It almost killed them.
      It took individual ownership to get something to share at the first Thanksgiving.

      Since we all have a giving nature, what ever stops us from Giving slows down our loving nature. As we believe we are a family beyond just the biological, as we expand that giving, the inequality we see now, will fade away.

      Lets look for answers that bolster our giving then just taking.

      • mewabe

        Actually, what saved the first pilgrims were Native Americans…who taught them how to survive in this new wilderness, and gave them the corn, beans, pumpkins and many other things.

        However I cannot really agree with this idea “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need”, as “need” is not defined here, and neither is “ability”.

        It is perfectly natural for humans to tend towards a certain amount of laziness, and there is nothing wrong with it, as long as it is not at the detriment of others. If someone gives me all I need, I soon forget how to provide for myself.

        • NealeDonaldWalsch

          Actually, CWG suggests that people will not, in fact, become lazy and do nothing, in the majority. Rather, the majority of people, knowing that their basic needs are taken care of, will still contribute to society, but for another reason: As a means of self-expression, not as a requirement for self-survival. When survival and expression become confused, the quality of the contribution of most people drops precipitously.

          In countries with a GAI (Guaranteed Annual Income) under one kind of system or another, observation and studies have shown that productivity does not, in fact, go down, but rather, goes up. Peoples’ good feeling about their society goes up, and their willingness and determination not be a burden on that society increases as a natural consequence of their gratitude that there will at least be an income “floor” placed under them, beneath which they will not be allowed to fall. People also then do not “work out of worry,” but “work out of wonder.” There is joy in people’s labor again, because they recognize they are serving the common good of society and for themselves. A GAI for the U.S., by the way, was an idea supported by Richard Nixon, a Republican president.

          • mewabe

            Good points…excellent points.

            I once worked under a loose contract with a design firm that guaranteed me a certain income provided that I work exclusively for them…needless to say I worked way beyond the guaranteed income, and without the insecurity.

            But then I opted for total freedom, sacrificing security for greater achievements.

            Ultimately, no one should have to work beyond providing for essential needs…living more and working less should be the ideal (this coming from a chronic workaholic no less!)

            It is rather sad that in our current systems the only actual, practical freedom can only be obtained two ways: wealth (“financial freedom”) or total poverty (“dropping out”). For everyone else, life remains slavery, unless one can do what s/he truly loves…and even then, the necessity to continually cater to financial concerns can ruin the best party!

          • mewabe

            Yes, today’s conservative Republicans make Nixon look like a “socialist” (their own definition of “evil”).

            After all, under him, the very rich were taxed at a 70% rate!

          • mewabe

            Isn’t taxation presently not voluntary, and shouldn’t it be, even as it would be meant to support a GAI system?

            Yes, I agree with some of your ideas, and it is a shame that many seem presently unrealistic as what we call “the real world” is actually positioned, ideologically, to kill us and all life around us.

            How much more unrealistic, or impractical, are the current ideas and beliefs that have been proven not to work?

            Yet, some call, as an example, peace a dream and war a reality, when the actual fantasy or delusion is that which has repeatedly been demonstrated not to be feasible, which is war, and the only truly practical reality is peace.

            Aren’t human thoughts and beliefs totally upside down, inside out?

          • Awareness

            Yes GRATITUDE works very well 🙂

            Bless ALL 🙂

          • mewabe

            Yes, but I would hate to depend on a system towards which I would feel obligated to contribute…because it is guaranteeing me some form of government sponsored security.

            I would much prefer a VOLUNTARY social structure based on local communal work and on the local communal sharing of all resources, which would vastly reduce the needs for productivity and consumption by the way, meaning much less work, so that the quality of life would vastly improve for all.

          • Awareness

            I agree with setting up a voluntary and completely VISIBLE (no secrets) system that serves all LIFE 🙂

          • Contentttt

            On this I am totally aligned with you Neale! When a person enjoys what they are doing, they are and can BE creators within the DOing! When a person says…..”What I do allows my creative juices to flow and I enjoy it immensely!” Then the Human Being and the Human Doing are discovering a balanced present moment experience.

            When work is about survival, then the DOing is 100% and the BEing is looking to get out of there as soon as possible! Except, when the DOing is so financially rewarding, that a person will sacrifice their BEing, to fulfill the DOing, so that it is not an issue of survival financially.

            Yet, because the money is so compelling, an individual will often sacrifice their SELF for more money and then Money becomes the God they worship!

            This is why I say……”There is not just one God….their are thousands!” The question then becomes……”How can anyone ever make the statement their is only ONE true God?” Why?
            Because it is NOT about what we conceptually believe…..it is about what we demonstrate through our actions and choices is true for each of us! Because it is not what is true outside of each one of us, it is what is true within each one of us!!!!!

            Before GAI can work, the power of money over, within and through ALL on this planet must first take place. GAI can only work, when work is not about work, or money, or survival, but as a simple, yet profound expression of our SELF and our BEing in each moment!

            Kind or like an egg! If the egg is the idea, the egg is laid, then only in an incubator where the egg is warmed and nurtured can it hatch and grow. GAI BEing the egg, cannot hatch when the harsh environment around, within and through people that currently exist on Earth does not support it. Right now it is to cold on Earth for GAI to become so!

            This is why killing and war is so rampant on Earth! The incubator energy around people, within and flowing through people supports this ghastly act.

            Often the question is asked….WHY?
            The SIMPLEST of ALL answers is……”Because the incubator energy either does or does not support (You fill in the rest)!”

            Have you ever questioned or wondered why there are such strong storms and destruction?
            The BIG PICTURE IS……the atmospheric layers around Earth are not homogeneously balanced! Conflict on Earth is supported by conflict in the sky’s. Conflict in the sky’s is supported by conflict on Earth! Self perpetuating incubation oriented environment of chaos.

            On a larger BIG PICTURE scope, either the incubator energy has to change, or human’s have to change first! The one will support the other! If human’s cannot accomplish it….then as is taking place, the atmospheric incubator energy will change!

            The result is a war of energy that has been taking unfolding and coming head to head in the unseen realms!
            Just like looking in the mirror! Is the person in the mirror the person you choose to BE? The Universe just has a LOT BIGGER MIRROR!!!!

            “”””””””IT IS ALL ABOUT ENERGY….ENERGY…..ENERGY”””””!!!!!
            There is nothing else!!! 🙂 Change the energy….you change the experience!!!! 🙂

          • Michael L

            Or could a stepping stone to that, be a flat tax.
            Then everyone has skin in the game.
            That would be a start.

    • Victor

      Book 2.

      Very important to say, because, many, many people have read book 1, but numbers fall astoundingly in terms of book 2.

      And many people drop book 2, when they start to see that it is ´too political´…

      • Awareness

        The copy of “Conversations with God” I have comes as one complete volume (Books 1, 2 and 3 together). So I tend to experience “Conversations with God” as One Book. Although I have seen “Conversations with God” sold in book shops as separate copies of 1, 2 and 3. I ordered mine over the internet 🙂

        Bless ALL 🙂

  • mewabe

    Words are used as ideological weapons by those few whose intent is to retain power and control.

    Limbaugh is a perfect example, but he is not the only one. According to many, anything that could potentially benefit the PEOPLE while limiting the power and control of the FEW is called Marxism…in this instance, the word Marxism is used as would be a bullet, as is the word “evil” by the religious-minded, to DESTROY an idea without DISCUSSING it, as if Karl Marx was the devil himself, the ENEMY.

    We don’t converse with enemies, we bomb them into oblivion…with physical or ideological bombs, or both.

    Some Americans call Native American cultures “communist” cultures, because the Native people shared the land and had give-away ceremonies…which the ideologically brain-washed calls “wealth redistribution”, although it was voluntary. This clearly indicates the degree to which the ideologically-controlled mind can distort reality….to a degree of total absurdity.

    What the Pope is saying is nothing new…ironically, this is the same Pope that earlier played a crucial role in chastising, under his previous boss, South and Central American priests who espoused liberation theology, and who sided with the people against their exploiters and oppressors. Perhaps he is attempting to redeem himself.

    As fear and insecurity increase throughout the world, so does greed…at all levels, at the basic level of the mindless consumerism of junk by the hapless masses, and at the level of obscene profits for the elite. Greed is rooted in fear, which itself has for origin a disconnection from the real self (what could be described as the divine self, the soul, the “higher consciousness”, and our fundamental HUMANITY).

    The less we ARE, the more we want to HAVE. That’s the basic equation around which our insane world revolves.

    Am I “judgmental”?…No, no more than a doctor who looks at a growth and discover that it is cancer. I know the pathology, I have always known it…it is called “civilization”. I also know that it is a temporary condition.

    • darrelf

      your posts on this topic, rarely have I read such pure clarity, such logic. It’s music it’s love. wonderful.

      • mewabe

        Thank you darrelf…

        • darrelf

          I saw you mention Krishnamurti’s take on desire and pleasure, if you are interested I would love to dialogue on that, it may give me a new perspective to view from as I find I see it similar to him and would be interested to see how you see it. This may not be the right forum though

    • Contentttt

      Mewabe, you stated that Native American leaders led with love or from a place of love of and for their people. (paraphrasing)

      I believe they lead from a place of clarity and practicality! Insightful and intuitive senses aligned with the land, the animals, the weather, and then made their choices for the overall benefit of all. Now you can call this love, if you would like, but for me Love is like a big black sack. If one chooses from the Love Sack, then they are hypothetically choosing from Love!

      (Potential conversation) It is like someone saying to another “I love you”! Well, then why do you love me? I don’t know, I just do! What do you love about me? Everything! When I leave my dirty socks on the floor? Well, no! How much do you love me? A lot! Well, how much is a lot? Why does it matter? Are you just saying you love me because I like to hear it? Yes sometimes!

      I am NOT a big proponent of the Everything Comes from Love Sack….”I love you” statements! BE specific!

      mewabe you stated: “As it was among Native Americans, who chose as their “leaders” the most generous individuals, those who placed the interests of the people even before their own.Yes, being a leader does require, or should require, an extraordinary ability to LOVE.”

      The words “GOD AND LOVE” for me are just a big black sack! It holds a lot, but you really can’t see what is really in it! Actually a leader never has to place the interests of the people before their own. (That is my contention)

      A TRULY GREAT LEADER will never see a difference between their own Self and those they lead! When One is choosing for the whole…then the whole is ONE! When One (leader Self) chooses for the One (follower Selves) honoring and valuing every other (follower Self) One…as it’s Own Self, the One is always choosing for the One, the One (Self) is always the ONE, and the ONE (ALL) is always whole as the One or ONE!

      Also generally the Leader chose the next leader! The people trusted their leader to choose accordingly. It has more to do with insight, clarity, impartiality, intuitiveness, honesty, sincerity, strength of conviction and determination and resolve! But also it was bloodline too! A son(s) of a Native American leader was immediately immersed in OJT (On the Job Training) from day one. (Also, not quite sure why you threw the term generous in there either, it like totally does not fit!)

      Did I get of topic a little? Maybe! I like a lot of what you write mewabe! You often sound like me! BUT sometimes, you sound like everyone else! That’s when cold shivers run through my body! EEcckkk!

      🙂 Okay…your turn!!!

      • mewabe

        Here is what I meant by saying that a Native American leader had to put the interests of the people before his own…

        Among the Lakota (known as Sioux) specifically, here is a well known historical case illustrating this point:
        Among these people, a woman could divorce a man overnight, and choose another husband if she so pleased. It so happened that Tashunka Witko (Crazy Horse) had been made a “Shirt Wearer” (meaning a leader) among his people. His responsibility was to the people, and he was now said to be belonging to them, his life was no longer his own. That was the Lakota way.

        But he fell in love with a married woman, and she fell in love with him. She decided to leave her husband, and they decided to be together. The husband wasn’t happy, tried to kill Crazy Horse, shot him in the face and missed. This kind of action was a major transgression within a tribe…murders were unknown or extremely rare, so the tribe did not take it lightly.

        The elders (council) got together and talked. They made the decision that Crazy Horse had caused a problem but PUTTING HIS OWN INTERESTS (his love for the woman) ahead of those of the people, and they stripped him of his responsibility as an official leader, as a Shirt Wearer.

        That’s how severe the demands were for a Lakota leader. Being a leader was not just about having extraordinary qualities…but about being of service to the people regardless of personal cost, and if that could not be handled, then being honest enough to step down as a leader and let someone else do the job.

        I want to mention here that Native American leaders had no authority over their people whatsoever. SO LEADERSHIP WAS NEVER ABOUT POWER, unlike among Euro-Americans. That’s a very important distinction. They were counselors…advisers, CHOSEN, not “running for office”, and respected for their courage, generosity, humility and wisdom, observed by elders FROM CHILDHOOD. That they had no authority drove the authoritarian “white eyes” (the US government) crazy when dealing with the tribes.

        As for as love, I did not mean it in the contemporary, nebulous, fuzzy, feel good new age sense. I meant that a Native American leader would have given his life for his people, and often did. That kind of love…simple, direct, practical, generous, honorable.

        • Contentttt

          Over many many years the evolution of the Native American culture evolved.

          Native American’s have been on the lands of North American for over 3 thousand years!!!
          So the time frame you were referring to was in the last 150-200-500 years?
          Much has changed my friend!
          Now you identify specifically the Native people’s you were referring too! But your first general statement was of ALL Native American’s!!
          There are Native American Nations that have died out over the many years.
          Like the Sincasta and the Mocanna!
          How far back were you going?

      • mewabe

        I don’t know where you got your information on Native American culture, but yes, the 4 qualities of a Lakota leader were courage, generosity, wisdom and humility.

        There are many kinds of Native American cultures, and they all vary…you may be referring to another one. Blood lines did not matter among the plain tribes…and a leader was not chosen by another leader but by a council of elders. Among the Great Lakes people, the Haudenosaunee or “Iroquois”, leaders were chosen by a council of elder women (known as the “Grandmothers”) who, like men council, had the power to strip a person of the responsibility of leadership.

        After the tribes were subdued, during the reservation period, the US government picked PUPPET chiefs that they bribed with certain rewards (big houses, etc), who had NOTHING to do with traditional chiefs, who claimed authority over the people (falsely granted to them by the US government), and who indeed transferred their leadership through bloodlines, against tradition. These may be the ones you are referring to.

  • Teresa

    After arguing with my father for much of my life I realized that I had to explain to him that ours was not a political difference but a philosophical difference about what humanity is. If you believe that we are all separate then a conservative view makes sense. If you believe that we are all connected then the suffering of others becomes your suffering, and leads to a feeling of responsibility to make sure that everyone has their basic needs met. I understand why conservatives feel the way they do, and if I could turn a blind eye to my belief that we are all connected, then I might feel the same.

  • Victor

    Yes, we know indeed the hipocrisy of Catholic Church, and more about what is related to luxury, profits, and economic wealth.

    But anyway, two thumbs up for the Pope in this subject.

    He simply has brought a topic into high visibility due to his role as
    head of the Catholic Church. And man! in the terms he has brought it,
    not a little thing!

    He must be about to be crucified for this, he,he…

    And it´s not a bad thing that this topic is brought into view,
    because, it is so, so obvious that an economic system that produces and
    perpetuates that ´those who have´ have more, and ´those who don´t have,
    have less, is not in the best interest of all; that precisely it becomes
    not so obvious for millions of people in the planet, due to the
    satanization campaigns of vilification as ´reds´. ´communists´.
    ´marxists´, etc., of anybody that dares to talk and promote some kind of
    common good for all…

    So, Francis, I´m not a catholic and I don´t agree with any
    power-driven religion -virtually, all-, but in this, I give you my both
    thumbs up…!

    • mewabe

      The traveling comment…ha ha…going around the page, finding its most comfortable spot, its original place at last! Aaaaaah…

      Yes, the Pope said something that seems to indicate an awakening of
      some sort of religious conscience and a bit of stiffening of a
      previously jello-like spinal column. Hallelujah!

      But, isn’t it totally absurd that everyone gasps or claps at what
      some old man in a position of authority, who dresses funny and has a
      funny hat, says, when many around the street corner have said the same
      thing for other a century?

      Isn’t it odd that humanity still pays attention to such leaders and still revers any kind of leadership and authority?

      How long will people remain children, waiting for a daddy in a funny costume to think and speak for them?

      Why even pay attention to such nonsense? Don’t we have better things to do, such as actually changing the world?

      Do I hate authority? No, I merely find it to be an absurdity, as
      unnecessary as dominant power and control. I believe in absolute
      equality, living neither under nor above anything or anybody. Is that
      anarchy? In my world it is called being born free and sovereign, as is
      ALL LIFE in its NATURAL, WILD, UNCIVILIZED STATE.

      My soul is not civilized, and never will be.

      I do not respect a Pope any more than I respect a street sweeper.
      Now
      THAT is a revolutionary notion even revolutionaries cannot embrace in
      practical terms, as they believe in leadership and consequently in some
      sort of hierarchy, in a chain of command.

      The movement OWS wasn’t not understood by the mainstream-minded precisely because it rejected the idea of leadership! Did it “achieve” anything? Not within the mainstream context and according to mainstream values, at its object was to reject such context and values and spontaneously express a new way of being.

      It was art as much as it was revolution…art is what all true revolutions must be.

  • Michael

    I believe that this forum would be waaaaaaay more awesome if their was a whole lot more contrast. Bring on some people that don’t see eye to eye.

    • mewabe

      I don’t often see eye to eye…but many shy from such conversations than do something other than agree. Disagreement is greatly feared as it is often confused with the questioning of one’s identity, as most identify completely with their own “set in concrete” thoughts and beliefs, although any reasonable person would understand that a mind that never changes is AS GOOD AS DEAD.

      I identify with my ability to think, not with my present thoughts that soon will be past and replaced with new ones.

      • Michael

        Productive would be the least of it. If Neale set his CWG work aside so that more people would actually hear what he says. Even re-writing the CWG books under a different title and never use the word GOD. I quote him all the time and people marvel, until they figure out that the words come from a book called conversations with God. Then it’s overrrrrrrr for most if not all of them. How bout it Neale?

        • mewabe

          I agree, the word God is totally unnecessary. It could be replaced with life, as God actually is life…”Conversations with Life”.

          But the word God is highly charged with a religious baggage that even turns me off greatly, as I am not a Christian and never have been. Imagine if someone wrote “Conversations with Allah”…would it have universal appeal?

          Furthermore, “Conversations with God” implies a certain amount of AUTHORITY…as in, if God said that, it HAS to be true, it can’t be contested IN ANY WAY, as God knows better than any lowly human who merely has opinions rather than knowledge. That is another total turn off for me, to be honest, and it comes across as somewhat arrogant.

          It would have been much more appropriate and realistic for Neale to have chosen this title: “Conversations with my God”…or: “The God of Neale”, as with the existing book “The God of Jane” (Jane Roberts who channeled the Seth material and was very careful not to fall into religiosity and to claim a new theology, the opposite of Neale).

          • Michael

            Nor am I. It took an unbelievable amount of strength for me to even consider looking at a book with that word in the title. In fact it actually took a mysterious “voice” to speak to me, for me to even pick it up. I wish more people would hear those absolutely beautiful words. I recommended book 1 to a guy on facebook with over 1 million followers who calls himself God, he’s a comedian though, and he’s actually quite funny. I wish he would read it and share those words and concepts with his followers. 🙂

          • mewabe

            Neale’s own Christian background may have limited the diffusion of his message to those who have a Christian, and more generally a religious, background.

            The expansion of the narrow Christian or religious mind was a critical necessity…but now, Neale could indeed change his format and language to reach all people, including non believer and people who neither seek nor claim spirituality (it is possible when one understands that all life is divine, and the divine is life…labels then become unnecessary, all that matters is BEING).

          • Michael

            I bet ya the new pope has read his stuff. I think I’d risk calling that necessary or the closest thing to it. I’m off to bed. Instead of namaste I say this, dimhdiy.

          • mewabe

            Perhaps, although as he himself stated his stuff is not new…he simple framed it in a way that was much more accessible to the masses.

            Most people for example have never heard of Krishnamurti, or Alan Watts, or Sri Aurobindo, or even the Seth material, and many cannot digest A Course in Miracles…

            Yes, many heads “hurt” when more than 20 words are put together, and this condition is spreading and getting worse by the day. Politicians know this, of course, which is why they specialize in sound bites and oversimplified statements, and almost no one sees that they talk down to their audience in a rather revolting manner, except perhaps such an intellectual as Norm Chomsky, whose eyes and ears are OPEN!

            Some even think that one needs to be an intellectual to read Consumer Digest…and sadly I am not exaggerating, this is a real life example.

            Einstein did say that human stupidity was the closest thing to matching infinity…I am paraphrasing. It may seem unkind, but so is stupidity in its devastating consequences.

          • Contentttt

            How about “A Conversation With Your Expansive Self”.

            Actually it is not multiple conversations…..it is one continuous conversation! I talk to My Self everyday! Why…..because I AM the only one who truly understands Me and what it means to BE Me! Why would I ever talk to someone else about me, looking for answers, I realize I dole the answers out to My Self, when they hold the grandest potential and value.

            Kind of like an encyclopedia! Who sits down and reads every book from A to Z? Nobody!!! But when it is necessary, the information is there to reference. So it is with referencing what has value for each one of us, kind of like an interactive complimentary Expansive Self, when it is appropriate, the awareness, clarity and insight is there, as long as we are open and free flowing to receive it!

            As far as Neale is concerned. Well, he is a product of the CWG original conversation! He uses it, he quotes it, he lives it, he teaches from it, he discusses it, he breathes it, he is a product of it, he is CWG! To leave out the name God would be a major undertaking! For those that are God oriented they like it.

            I have understood for some time now, but have never ever shared it with anyone. Neale and the CWG books are a low to mid level energy bridge. To bridge the lost and confused of the God followers and present a different interpretation on some of the identical material contained in the Bible. To give a potential 2nd option to what is being taught by the traditional Bible/God promoters and interpreter’s!

            What do Bible toater’s do with the Bible? They quote it all the time! What does Neale do with CWG books? He quotes them all the time! They are two similar patterns. Bible toater’s cannot think for their own Self, they need the Bible to support their argument or belief’s and teachings!! Is Neale creating the same for his Self? Has he become a CWG toater?

            I actually LOVE it when Bible quoter’s come to my door to attempt to save me with their hand outs and Biblical quotations and fear based conversations for my soul. I even had one guy come inside and was so interested in what I was sharing with him, he did not want to leave! Other’s will often shut down the conversation, especially when they have a young impressionable quoter with them, and say….”We got to leave now!”.

            Neale is a gapper! Neale is a bridger and transitional teacher! But when CWG becomes a religion and a person stops on the transitional bridge and stands there and quote’s CWG all day long, they have stopped learning, evolving and moving forward, and have become CWG toater’s!

            Okay, Neale is caught in the CWG book energy pattern which began for him 15 year ago. This is why I will not write a book!

            Neale cannot escape the books! His name and identify are synominous with them. He will never be able to escape them, because he is energetically tied to them. The very respect and adoration he receives is because of the CWG books. Without the CWG books….he is still Nobody! He won’t change the material or end his connection to the books and walk away from them. His current life is totally based on them! The money he makes, the notoriety! He is worshiped by many, the question is……”Just how much does he like it ,and need it, and has he become dependent on it?” These are ALL valid questions! Can a person be truthful with and within their own Self to ask these highly enlightening questions honestly of their own Self?

            Is Neale creating a following that will continue to teach and promote the CWG books after he is dead and gone? Will he be revered even more when he is dead, like human’s do prophets, and saints? Is he creating an organization for the continuation of his CWG legacy? Has Neale become more important than the CWG books to his CWG followers and toater’s?

            I am not ripping on Neale….please do not misunderstand my intentions here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These are REAL Soul Searching questions! Neale may not feel his has a choice any longer, how could he ever let the CWG followers down! After all He Is Who He Is because of the books and follower’s!

            Kind of a double edge sword life Neale now lives. Your damned if you do and your damned if you don’t!

            And who said the price for fame was costly? Only each of us can know the cost of the choices made for us, by other’s who create directions for us!

            Back in 1999 I wrote in my journal:
            “MY LIFE IS NOT MINE TO LIVE UNTIL I AM FREE TO LIVE IT”!

            Some will understand this statement and other’s will not!
            “But I AM NOT Free, so it is NOT Mine Yet!”

            I AM

          • mewabe

            Good points Contentttt…Neale may have locked himself in an impasse, but I don’t want to analyze his life, as it is not my place and I do not know him. Only he can look at his life and answer his own questions if he so wishes. I can only look at his writings, not at the man.

            However, generally speaking, it is likely that all systematic thoughts stop a person’s growth. When you believe you have it all worked out, that you have all or most of the answers to life’s questions, you become a prisoner of your methods and beliefs.
            And when you state that God gave you these answers, the possibilities of changing your mind are nil, you have locked yourself in your own trap.

            Have you noticed that most spiritual teachers out there never say “I don’t know?” The pressure they get from their followers and from their own ego consciousness forces them, they believe, to come up with something! It is the same with psychics….no psychic who makes a living at it will ever say ” I don’t know”. That’s the downfall of making a living at teaching!

            The ultimate spiritual freedom, or LIBERATION, entails a liberation from ALL BELIEFS, FROM THE MIND ITSELF, not replacing one set of beliefs with another. Replacing limiting beliefs with more expanded beliefs is a practical undertaking meant to facilitate a better life…but it is a baby step that appeals to individuals who do not actually seek spiritual liberation or enlightenment, only some happiness in this life.

            Deep thinking is not the aim here…to deeply delve into the true nature of the Self is not the aim of most of humanity. Neale appeals to the masses because he gives them easy to understand, practical bites of wisdom they can use to better their lives without actually stretching their intellect or rocking their own boat too much. He is doing a great job and his role is important, because, let’s be honest, most people are still at the kindergarden level when it comes to matters of the Spirit and the Self, particularly those who grew up with a Bible. Their confusion is so vast that you need to start from the ground up.

            I am grateful for his work because he is indeed changing the world in his own way. He is a teacher for a specific group of people. I may sound arrogant here but I am not, I am honest. The person who spoke to me of his CWG books said that he felt it was revolutionary, but it blew his mind. BUT he had a Christian background, and that’s the whole point. I don’t, and rejected all organized religions very early in my life because of their false teachings, which I quickly knew to be false, and why.

            When I looked inside one of Neale’s book, I found nothing I had not already understood myself, except at a much deeper level. I felt he was stating the very obvious, skimming the surface without going deeper and without connecting very important dots.

            So what I am doing here?…Passing time. There is a fun aspect to it. My personal life is on hold at this time, but when it starts again, I won’t have time for any of it. But…it is important for me to state that I am very grateful for Neale’s open-mindedness and fairness in letting people who do not necessarily always agree with him contribute to this site. Very few places exist on the internet where such conversations can take place. His intentions are good and from what I can gather he is most probably a very good person. It is always easy to criticize a person, as none of us are perfect. I only question his writings and thoughts at times, not the person.

            As with any teacher or leader, I have more problems with followers than with those who lead…as in the saying “God save me from your followers”. I wonder if Neale ever fear that his teachings will be turned into dogmatic thought and a new religion, distorting what he was trying to express and achieve as all religions do, by some of his followers when he has moved on to a better neighborhood…

    • You may want to see a past discussion on this topic on this site.

      “Is agreement about God ‘boring’?”

      by Neale Donald Walsch from November 9, 2012

      • Michael

        Thanks Marko. I’m struggling to stay involved in this forum and I don’t understand why yet. I’m sure this Disqus interface could be designed differently also, thats def part of the issue for me.

  • Cheryl Rumnong

    The Pope, the head of the Catholic church, wields tremendous influence. For once we see a man of such influence talk about and personally live a truth that has been ignored. How and why should Pope Francis’ comments be unbelievable? Concern for the poor and uplifting them is the prime purpose of Christianity. At last a leader who walks the talk!

    • mewabe

      I thought the prime concern of Christianity was to “save soul” from the eternal “hell” all “sinners” are said to be destined to go…

  • Erin

    Hmmm…”Poses a fierce challenge to the status quo”…”telling it like it is”.
    What a fabulous compliment !!! Rock on with your ‘fierceness’, Dear Francis !!!

    Beyonce’ changed the define of ‘fierce’…not to only mean a savage, aggressive behavior, but rather a stature of confidence, & expressed beauty & strength, both inner & outer. I do like her rendition, and the fact that if one can alter the meaning of a simple word, One-ness can redefine anything.

    As for Mr. Limbaugh…He has yet to not make every hair stand on end & rub irritatingly into my clothes every time his voice is in hearing range. (Plug ears with fingers & LALALALALA until far, far away!) Non-sense, primitive thinking, loudly expressed, are man-peeps as this. Blessings to him, though…Many Angels are here to show us how NOT to Be, yes?

    What do I believe? Hmmm…good ?. I know that very shortly none of this stuff is going to matter one iota. Money will not buy Good Life here.
    Human economics isn’t going to stop rain or bring it on, nor is it going to buy one’s safety of the waters, fires, & winds brewing. One’s echelon status isn’t going to be a priority of Earth wobbles.
    Soon, All will be One…All on one plane…All striving for simple existence. All will have little choice but to work together, provide for each other, all pettiness aside so that skills & talents can be honed & taught with re-visions & Wisdoms.

    What do I believe? Perhaps that the window of opportunity to redefine Our beingness is in perfect process of shattering wide open. Believe it & you’ll See it, right? Sure hope so! 😀

    • Awareness

      Belief is important 🙂

      ““Your beliefs form reality. Your individual beliefs and your joint beliefs. Now the intensity of a belief is extremely important….” by SETH (GREAT SPIRIT! GREAT CREATOR!) 🙂

      Bless ALL 🙂

      • mewabe

        Wow a Set quote…that’s refreshing, thanks!

        My thoughts:
        Believe and you will SEE
        Love and you will KNOW.

        • Awareness

          The Law of Gratitude is Given 🙂

          • Contentttt

            So what happens when what you believed was so, you cannot remember any longer?

            What happens when you forgot what you believed was so and you don’t remember any longer?

            What happens when the awareness you experienced, you are no longer aware of any longer?

            What happens when the name you identified your Self by, you forgot, and you don’t remember your name any longer?

            The intensity of a belief is important, until the belief and the intensity of it are gone!

            There are trillions and trillions in the universes that once believed because they believed it was so, then it must be as they believe have it is!

            Do you think Alzheimer’s and Dementia are only disease’s associated with humanity? I encourage you to re-calibrate that thought! They are more afflictions of an individual’s conscious awareness of Self, than they are physical.

            Once individuals die after having Alzheimer’s and Dementia they do not immediate become aware when the physical body dies. In fact sometimes they are unable to return even to a point of being aware they even exist.

            Were you aware of that Awareness?

            Alzheimer’s and Dementia are not just energy diseases of this physical realm, but they also take their toll in the unseen spirit realm also! Once you forget, no matter what you believed so fiercely is then gone forever! I bet you were not aware of that were you??

          • Michael L

            One thought I have,
            Have you come back from the Dementia you speak off?
            Like say a near death experience?

            The abundance of personal stories of NDE are all pretty much positive in nature.

          • Contentttt

            Please tell me how many Dementia patients are able to talk about a NDE? If they have one, the Dementia will steal from them the ability to share it!!
            Do you understand what dementia is??

            My ex-mother-in-law had it! One day my son who she had known for 19 years walked through the house and she asked him who he was, and if he was a neighbor?

          • Awareness

            If you forget, you still Exist 🙂 And if you exist you are Aware 🙂 You are Aware of what is 🙂

            Bless ALL 🙂

  • Awareness

    “In the days of the New Spirituality the economy will be transparent.”

    “There will be NO SECRETS, no under-the-table dealings, no “creative accounting.” Everybody will know everything about everyone. There will be no reason for secrets, no motivation, since you will come from oneness in everything you do to provide true wealth—-equal access for everyone to what is desired to live a good life, and a higher possibility of happiness for everyone as a result of that.

    With the purpose of the economy thus changed, and the definition of wealth in that way altered, the idea of keeping any piece of economic data from anybody else in order to produce economic gain will seem primitive, childish, and completely inappropriate.” – “TOMORROW’S GOD” by Neale Donald Walsch 🙂

    Bless ALL 🙂

  • Don Cool

    I was a student of A Course in Miracles long before I even heard of CwG. So far I have read all of Part 3 and part of Part 2. Most of what Neale Walsch writes in CwG I agree with, and most of the material is in agreement with A Course in Miracles, which Mr. Walsch mentions in Part 3. However, one aspect of ACIM, what I would consider the essential message, is that the material world is a total illusion and that suffering of any kind, including what we call “death” is not part of Reality. Further, if God were aware of our suffering, or death, or aware of any part of our world, that would automatically make it real, because God knows (or is) only Reality. That would make death real, for which there would be no escape. From what I have read of Cwg, God apparently is aware of everything that happens in this world, including all of our suffering. I don’t see how this can be reconciled.

    • “..one aspect of ACIM, what I would consider the essential message, is that
      the material world is a total illusion and that suffering of any kind,
      including what we call “death” is not part of Reality”

      ACIM in my view is great. However, it’s focus on reality as an illusion misses the point made in CwG that the illusions are made for us, to use in our favor. (See CwG book “Communion”) The fact that we abuse these illusions that appear real, (as that’s part of the game), is something we evolve out of.

      CwG makes the point that this world of the temporary or illusions, is very, meaningful, purposeful, useful & fun. Also a place to escape, not enjoy.

      ACIM also tends to see this world as illusions & an inferior place to the spiritual.

      CwG states further that we always have a body & that death is also a birth. We don’t die, we change form & so does the body.

      Magically,
      -Marko

    • NealeDonaldWalsch

      Marko (below) has it right regarding what CWG says on these things. Nice Marko. AND…there is more. CWG also agrees with ACIM in saying that suffering is not a reality, but is part of our “made up” story. CWG says the experience of suffering is not more than the result of a decision we have made that something that is happening should not be happening. Yet the occurrence of something that “shouldn’t be happening” in the world is impossible, given Who and What God Is. It would mean either than God (a) made a mistake, or (b) is totally out of control over what is occurring. Both notions directly contradict the very nature of Who and What God is.

      CWG also makes the point that death does not exist, but is merely “a process of re-identification.” (See HOME WITH GOD in a Life That Never Ends)

      On the third point, In my understanding God IS aware of all that is happening in our world, because God is in no way separate from it, nor from anything that exists, for all of Existence is Divinity, made manifest. The only way for God not to be aware of everything that happens in our world would be for God to be “other than,” or “separate from,” our world. This is the theological doctrine of Separation that is both inaccurate and terribly destructive to our world.

      The problem with a Separation Theology is that it produces a Separation Cosmology. That is, a way of looking at all of life that says that everything is separate from everything else.

      And a Separation Cosmology produces a Separation Psychology. That is, a psychological viewpoint that says that I am over here and you are over there.

      And a Separation Psychology produces a Separation Sociology. That
      is, a way of socializing with each other that encourages the entire human
      society to act as separate entities serving their own separate interests.

      And a Separation Sociology produces a Separation Pathology. That is, pathological behaviors of self-destruction, engaged in individually and collectively, and producing suffering, conflict, violence, and death by our own hands—as evidenced everywhere on our planet throughout human history.

      • Contentttt

        Neale You Stated:
        Yet the occurrence of something that “shouldn’t be happening” in the world is impossible, given Who and What God Is. It would mean either than God (a) made a mistake, or (b) is totally out of control over what is occurring. Both notions directly contradict the very nature of Who and What God is.

        Neale the more accurate statement would be for you is:
        Both notions directly contradict the very nature of Who and What (I/We Believe) God is.

        Again Neale if is it not absolutely confirmable, then it can only be a belief, not a statement of fact as you stated it above!!!

        You can only know what you know and it is from their your assumptions are made and belief’s then formed!

        A gazillion aligned assumptions does not make something so, it only means there are a gazillion aligned assumptions!

        Neale you stated:
        The only way for God not to be aware of everything that happens in our world would be for God to be “other than,” or “separate from,” our world. This is the theological doctrine of Separation that is both inaccurate and terribly destructive to our world.

        On this I agree with you! YET, it is possible for GOD or the GOD’s to BE “INDIFFERENT”! Is this not what the story of Jesus tells us? If Jesus was the Son, and Jesus said: “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?”
        Doesn’t that open the door for God’s being totally indifferent in any and all situations?

        I as Contentttt ask ALL of You! “AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT SEES THESE ACTS AND CHOICES IN THIS WAY”?
        Doesn’t anyone recognize how within the Bible it redirects away from the act, towards the explained explanation for the act! The explanations of the Bible are to redirect or to man’s attempt to understand an act that is beyond comprehension. Have you ever found your Self justifying what another did, to diminish the horribleness of the act?

        Take Off the Blinders People!
        Your assumption that God is perfect and only initiates acts of love and kindness are “Fools Gold”! The idea is pretty and shines, but not worth much!

    • Contentttt

      Once I read A Course In Miracles definition, description and explanation of “EGO”. It was so far off, I decided not read any more of the book!

      But hey, it was written in ACIM book, it must be correct! NOT!!!!

      • I like what CwG teaches. You take what rings true for you & if it doesn’t resonate, don’t use it. CwG does not require anyone to believe anything. It offers another alternative cosmology. Neale’s challenge to others is, if you can think of a better way to live, go for it, use that. Thus, in this way CwG prevents dogma from entering in.

        • Contentttt

          Well, that brings up another point Marko! Exactly how my thoughts that you experience in a day, can you honestly confirm began with you, that you were the source of the thought? So if you sit down to think of a better way to live, are you really thinking, or just encouraging the flow of thoughts through your conscious and unconscious mind?

          DOGMA = n. noun

          1. A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church.
          2. An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true.
          3. A principle or belief or a group of them.

          As long as God is a part of Conversations With God……..Dogma is unavoidable!!! You can tell your Self and other’s CWG prevents dogma from entering in! BUT you will be lying to your Self!!!!!

          • I see dogma as simply rigidity. CwG states there is no absolute truth. That’s as close to dogma as it gets in my view.

          • Contentttt

            So the God as the Creator, All inclusive, or however God has been understood to exist or how CWG presents it, is Absolutely Not True!!

            Thank You Marko!
            So CWG was not really a Conversation With God!
            Thank You!!

          • That’s not my perspective, I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. But if that works & plays for you, well carry on.

          • Contentttt

            If you do not understand……I can’t help you!

          • Awareness

            6th Remembrance: “You and God are one. There is no separation between you.” – “Home with God” by Neale Donald Walsch 🙂

            Since there is no separation, “Conversations with God” is simply a conversation with the SELF 🙂

            There is only ONE “entity” in the “room” having a conversation with itself from different points of view 🙂

            Bless ALL 🙂

  • Contentttt

    I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU NEALE DONALD WALSCH.

    I know as the book was written the questions were supposed to be coming from you and the answers from God.
    But was there any point in the process you recognized the questions were being feed to you?
    Do you ever sit back at any point and look at a question that just showed up for you and say to your Self, “Wow, that is a really good question”!

    Did you ever feel like the God Contingent was creating both the questions to answer and the answers too?

    I have experienced this process before through My Self, and Within My Self years ago! When the puppet and is fully directed by the puppeteer! (I see this as a communicative process initiated and controlled from the unseen realm and those in spirit). They do it all the time, I am just wondering if you recognized it taking place or were oblivious of it taking place!!

    I ask because your answer will allow me to understand just how consciously aware you were of everything that was going on or have come to be!

    If you would like to avoid answering this question I will understand! No answer will be a confirmation! Thank You in advance!!

    Contentttt

    • Awareness

      Since there is only ONE “entity” in the “room” having a conversation with itself, then the questions and answers are coming from the SELF. From the way I see it the questions and answers cannot come from anywhere else but the SELF 🙂

      “I have experienced this process before through My Self, and Within My Self years ago!” – Contentttt

      Are you still experiencing this “process” now? And if not, how can you be sure? Are you certain that the questions you raised above are coming from “you” or being “fed” to “you” as you indicated could be the case with Neale Donald Walsch 🙂 I am curious to know because this is a fascinating “twist” 🙂

      Bless ALL 🙂