Have you ever seen anyone die, right in front of your face? If so, what was your experience of that?

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  • diane

    Oui, j’ai accompagné ma maman je l’ai vue partir,j’ai vécu une expérience profonde elle est devenue lumineuse et j’ai sentie sa présence invisible et des larmes ont coulé sur mon visage, je l’ai laissé partir avec amour.

    ***ENGLISH TRANSLATION:

    Yes, I accompanied my mom I saw from, I had a profound experience it became light and I felt his invisible presence and tears ran down my face, I let go with love.

  • Penny (Oregon)

    Yes, twice and yet each was a totally different experience.

    The first time was very traumatic, I was on my way to work and witnessed an 80 year old lady get hit by a truck (moving van type). Even though I didn’t know the lady personally I was so disturbed by this I was unable to function for weeks and had to seek counseling help. This was very early on in my spiritual path and I hadn’t even begun to explore the details of death…..so to me it was a very sad, traumatizing and tragic thing.

    The next time was roughly 10 years later when my grandfather died. I was not expecting him to die when I went for my visit but I knew he was not feeling well. As time went by (hours not days) I began to see and feel that the end was coming and sooner than anyone thought. I was able to care for him and be there with him right up until he took his last breath. This experience was beautiful to me, I felt and still am so greatful that I was there. It was a great privilege to me to be there for someones last moments of human life.

    The path of my spirituality has helped me tremendously in my views of death. I have come even farther the passing of my grandfather and it will be interesting to see how I choose to feel in the future witnessing of passing of loved ones and stragers alike.

  • Laura Pringle

    Wow, thanks, Penny and Diane! Good to read your stories, and they are encouraging.
    I, too had the privilege of being there for my father-in-law’s passing, and it was very touching and revealing.

    He had been suffering for a while with cancer, and really wanted to die. His son was begging him to fight it, to hang on. He was refusing liquids and trying to hasten his death, and I supported his will to do that, although I didn’t assist him.

    His son walked out of the room, and I was alone with him. I held his hand and laid my head on his chest, listening to his chest rattle with each breath. I could tell his time was close. I sighed, and said aloud, quietly, “Please God, just take him.”

    At that moment, he sighed, and I felt a sense of peace wash over me. My eyes were closed, but the sensation was unmistakable. It made me smile, it was so serene. I opened my eyes, and he was gone. But since then, the sense of peace about his passing has never left me. What a wonderful experience.

    A few days after this, I found out I was pregnant with our middle son, Evan.
    He had a personality quite similar to his grandpa, too, it turned out! Headstrong, and liked to take risks. He passed away at age 15 in July 2011, in a bad car accident.

    This really jarred me, and I was so sad that I never got to say goodbye or be present for his passing. But I have the ultimate faith that he has gone to somewhere beautiful, and has suffered not a wink. I miss him, but I feel he is not truly gone, just in another realm, having another existence. Being there for his grandpa’s passing has helped me tremendously in accepting my son’s passing.

  • Kristen

    Yes. My dear father-in-law, after a falling out with him caused by his wife. Having not seen him for a year, and no-one realizing how ill he was with cancer until he was hospitalized. Most the family were there, except me as I was in the middle of a messy divorce with his son, but I spontaneously decided to visit just in time. He briefly woke from a semi-coma and acknowledged I and two others had arrived, and as I was still in the doorway he looked up into the corner of the room, semi smiled, sighed and was gone. Sadly his last son to arrive from Australia was still at the airport. Guess he couldn’t hold on another hour?! A very peaceful death.

    Also my mothers partner was in a hospice for 2 days respite care with a brain tumour, but slipped into a coma for his last 4 days. Horrid watching an otherwise healthy 45yr old go through lungs and heart having shut down before his body can pass. 3 days of constant nose fluid wiping, sweating, semi seizures etc. But that’s what family are for. He chose to pass the very second that we all left the room for the only 2 minutes. I would also choose this. He had been in and out of his body during the coma, I could tell when he was there, I proved it to family by asking him to send strawberries out of season, and within a half hour some old friends arrived with my mothers favourite choc dipped strawberries that they had an ‘urge’ to bring. Funnily enough already arranged before I requested him to arrange this.

    Funny story, in a sad thread, but working in a rest home many years ago I spend 15mins talking to a dozing patient whilst fluffing around with clothes, cleaning etc (always dozing but half listened), so was a bit embarassed when the head nurse came in to tell me the family had arrived to take her to the funeral home. Oopsy!!!

  • Erin/IAm

    I have had no experience of humans passing in my arms…though I have been ‘touched’ as they have moved along. On the ‘other’ hand, I have been utterly blessed to have held many a furred & feathered in their last breaths of life here. I cannot imagine much difference of experience.

    Gratitude overwhelmed sadness in each ‘event’, thusfar.

    Blessed be, Beloveds. Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again. <3

  • Lloyd

    I have watch many humans pass out of the physical body. Some I held in my arms looking into their face, other just holding their hands or sitting by the bedside, but in the end moments there was always a peace within their eyes. One had been shot and was choking on their own blood, others in a car accident, and several with sickness lying in a hospital, but there was always a place before death where the pain was gone and acceptance of their own state of being settled upon them in a peaceful manner.

    As I held them I felt their Energy lift out of their body, and the weight of their physical flesh became limp and it seemed heavier. Death is not to be feared, it is just another step in our existence, as our Energy returns to Source and continues with the total flow from which it came.

    So our grief at anothers death of the physical is more about our own loss than it is about the individual passing. I have asked that upon my passing that those that care for me gather to celebrate the moments we shared and not to shed any tears, but sing songs and laugh and move forward sharing Love for their own life adventures. I wish to be cremated and my ashes scattered upon the ocean some where some place, it doesn’t really matter. Life is a journey which I mean to live fully in Love for as long as I can, but the Love energy which I am will always remain flowing forth and what more could I possibly desire. Namaste’
    Butch

  • Inger Lise

    Well, it is always an exception from the rule.
    And this is not my story, but a close friend of mine since the schooldays. We are still living close by each others just 15 minutes of the driving from each others place of living.
    She is a twin, and three more twins as siblings(8 siblings all together), her mom got cancer at the age of 47 years old by the time when the friend as a teenager watching her mom died. The friend of mine and her twin-sister sitting by the bedside at the hospital, and she told me afterwards of it is the worst experience of to have had in her whole life(it is still a trauma in her mind no matter of what am telling her); because her mom fought against death until her last breath, kicking with her legs in the bed, and her last words whispering: I will NOT die, I WILL NOT die ! And it is quite reasonable since she left behind 8 fatherless children. The youngest among the pairs of twins at the age of 6 and 8 years old.
    But as the little ones were left behind alone, of they were taken good care of by the one grandmother still alive back then, and other friendly(and good) neighbours.
    It is not the same as of nowadays of course. Thus another “time” back in the 1960thies.

  • Laura Pringle

    Wow, Inger Lise, what a story! Thanks for sharing it. A different perspective, for sure. Can’t imagine what that must have been like for those present. Unsettling, and dramatic, to say the least. My heart goes out to them. But they sure knew she didn’t want to leave them behind…

    A few months before witnessing my father-in-law’s death, I lost both my parents to cancer, this was when I was in my mid 20’s. My mother passed at age 49 from lung cancer, and her suffering was so drawn-out and painful… for her, and also for my sisters and I, that we actually wished she would die, near the end, when we knew she couldn’t beat it.

    She waited til we were gone to make her transition, and I was so disappointed to have missed it. I don’t understand why I couldn’t have had that wonderful, peaceful experience with her passing, it would’ve saved me much depression and heartache… C’est la Vie…

  • mewabe

    As we live, so do we die…in love and peace or in fear, in gratitude or in anger and resentment…

    I don’t want to go into personal details, but a close family member of mine is presently slowly dying of cancer, and it is not peaceful so far, as the person unfortunately never chose peace in her life.

    It is tragic to see someone go without peace in their heart, although I know (psychically) this person is going to a very good “place” (dimension) and will finally find peace and complete understanding on the other side.

    Yes, we cry for ourselves ultimately, for what we miss but also for what we missed, for what remained unfulfilled, incomplete, unsaid, undone, for what was not and could not be, because of our limitations.

    We cry because we understand that so much pain, in a person’s life, was so unnecessary, and that peace happiness was just on the other side of the doorway, with only a slight shift of consciousness.

    Death seems to represent the ultimate end of all opportunities for and with another, at least in this realm and this specific life, unless we can establish a psychic communication, which is easier and more common than we think, even if it has to come in dreams.

    Life is like a garden, that we tend to and for which we have plans…death usually comes before the garden is finished, and sometimes before it is even started…and it is painful to see another person’s dreams remain stillborn.

    It is a wake up call…not to waste another day, another moment, as life is so very short!

  • Inger Lise

    Thank you Laura. Certainly of you have had the own share with death and suffering as well. But one way or the other, as life is eternal, of us to have become wiser for each time of the reincarnational(I do believe in the reincarnation of some sorts)self(selves?) in of to have the experiences in the earth because of to learn. Each time a soul deciding of to enter a body for a reason.

    And mewabe, you are a wise man.

    Erin have experienced the nice happening of a new beginning, and knowing it !

    But since am in the mood of to sitate all of the quotes sent by the retired U.S. Navy friend of mine today….hence giving you another one(he loves of to send me bunches of the proverbs, and I am enjoying it):”If you must play, decide on three things at the start: the rules of the game, the stakes, and the quitting time—” Chinese proverb.
    Much wisdom in it.

  • mewabe

    Thanks Inger…I like the proverb (:

  • Angie

    Having spent the best part of 40 years nursing and caring for people in different settings, ive been with dozens of people young and old as they have passed on. ive looked upon it as my privelidge to have be with them as they commence their journey back to Source. Many were very frightened and needed comfort and needed to be held close given reassurance and permission to let go of their earthly ties. Others had no fear and saw their loved ones come to meet them on their journey home. At the actual moments when their souls left I have always felt Gods warmth and love in my heart, great peace and joy for the departed.

  • Inger Lise

    Yes, it is manyfolds of the experiences. And the Nurses are Angels.

    F.inst. To be a witness of all the “uneccessary” (and painful) deaths at wars, and youngsters to be totally disabled afterwards. Thou, one might wonders….because it IS those who is able of “to come out of it” as much wiser human beings afterwards.
    In Norway very few of the jews survived the Holocaust, the few who came back started(after many years) of to tell the youngsters about it, and they told of when (as the years have passed by)of they have managed of to FORGIVE all of it. But they told of to have learned of it is dependent upon the INDIVIDUAL growth.

  • Philip Reilly

    I work as a clinical nurse leader and have been privileged to have been present when, mainly elderly people have passed away. I say privileged because it’s a sacred moment and most nurses I work with have said exactly the same. We try to make the lead up as comfortable as possible, so there’s no pain.
    One minute there’s a living, breathing person in front of you, the next they’ve gone. What is left is a husk, a body, nothing more. One of the first things I notice is the eyes, they’re suddenly dull, no sparkle. You can almost see the moment of release, when the spirit leaves the body.

  • Ellen Santolucito

    Yes, I have. It was my father. He was in the hospital and dying of multimyeloma. We knew he was leaving as the numbers on the machines that determine respiration and blood pressure continued to go down. His breath continued to be more and more shallow. A tear fell from his eye and then the other eye as I recited the Our Father and told him that it was okay to go, to let his Spirit be at peace. He soon stopped breathing and the machines confirmed that he was, in fact, gone. I felt his Spirit leave and an overwhelming sense of peace in that hospital room. I knew that his Spirit was indeed at peace.

  • Michele

    My daughter died a violent death inside me. I was 9 months pregnant and she wrapped up in the cord from her waist to her ankles. In the days before her death she kicked so hard, I could place a toy on my belly and she could kick it off! We thought we had a super strong healthy baby, and couldn’t wait to see her! When she died, I felt her just drop to the bottom of my uterus, and knew the moment it happened that she was dead. She didn’t move for several hours before I went to the emergency room to hear the horrific truth. She had died. The ultrasound showed no heart beat, and the look on the technicians face was one of remorse and fear. The doctor told me to go home and wrap my mind around it before I gave birth to her 3 days later. I was mortified! After I delivered her, I held her body. Her little lifeless wrapping. She wasn’t there. She left that moment in the livingroom 3 days before. Even so, when I held her body there in the hospital that afternoon, I felt love. I still have no idea why she came and went the way she did. I miss her.
    xo, Michele

  • John McCleery

    I saw my father die. It was a hot July evening and he was in the last stages of life. His breathing was spotty, his eyes were closed, and the feeding tube was stuck down his throat. he was unconscious, but his face looked as if he was deep in thought as if contemplating what to do next. As the family slowly went to bed, my niece Melissa and I stayed awake. At some point, She noticed his feet were pure white and that the color of his skin was slowly receding, like a tide rushing back to its source. Then we noticed his fingers were also being drained of their color as was his neck. it was as if the essence of who he was/is was lifting itself from his body. His breathing increased and got louder until the final rattle of the death gasp was expunged from his lungs. Melissa and I cried and held each other tightly. We didn’t speak. it was as if our words would interrupt the sanctity of what was occurring before us. We just silently cried holding each other. Then a great feeling of peace filled the room. And it seemed as if the light of the full moon outside called to us. We went outside and stood on the front yard basking in that glorious light, feeling protected, deeply loved, and the knowing that Grandpa was finally at peace. It was THE most intimate moment I’ve ever had with my father and the end of a long, complicated relationship, but the beginning of something wonderful.

  • Jaye Miller

    I was with my grandmother when she passed. I idolized her and was extremely angry that she was dying earlier than she would have if the proper care had been available when she needed it. My only consolation was that my child remains unsafe when I’m not with him and so far ‘the system’ has not responded appropriately when I have requested help. The great grandmother he didn’t get a chance to get to know better in this life could now watch my son more often than she would have been able to otherwise. I still don’t always agree that ‘things happen for a reason’ when children suffer or are deliberately kept from what they need most so that others may benefit at their expense. As the monitor begin to flatline over the last bed my grandmother would occupy here, her now being able to watch over my son when I couldn’t was and remains of some comfort.

  • mewabe

    I wanted to bring up a question, an issue, in another thread, but it is too late so I will post it here, since it also has to do with death, albeit animal death.

    The question is about the Christian idea of a gentle, loving, merciful God.

    I will try to keep it simple…

    I watched a couple of videos on youtube, that many would not watch…but I decided long ago not to avert my eyes, to look at almost everything so as to learn about life in all its aspects.

    The videos were about hyenas, and wild African dogs. The brutality and violence in them was so extreme and grotesque as to make me feel traumatized and demoralized about this planet and about life in general, for the rest of the evening.

    Although I love nature (especially the wilderness) with all my heart and soul and feel that all life is one, the events I witnessed in the videos made me question, for a moment, whether humanity actually belongs here, on this earth, with an innate sensitivity and compassion that seem out of place.

    The preys were torn and eaten alive and died very very slowly (hyenas and wild dogs do not kill their preys), they were totally healthy, and one of them was just about to give birth…so you can imagine the shocking carnage.

    Yes, these same predators are capable of displaying great affection and loyalty to their own species, to their mates and offspring.

    So nature is extremely polarized….everything goes…from amazing tenderness to extreme, merciless, bloody brutality. And animals do not grow or learn from such polarity, because it is in their constant nature to either be prey or predator, to eat a prey or to be eaten.

    And our job is not to police the wilderness, as civilization has attempted to do, causing great harm in the process, but to live in harmony with it and with all forms of life.

    So how does the mercy, the love, the compassion of the Christian God fits into this natural creation?

    Or are such attributes only meant for humanity? Are we God’s “special children”, while all else can go to hell?

    I have my own answers…but I would like to know how those Christians who think of God as EXCLUSIVELY loving can reconcile the actions of such creatures as hyenas violently jerking a yet unborn calf out a a wildebeest, brutally ripping her insides in the process, eating the calf and then the wildebeest alive, progressively digging into her abdomen with their teeth while she screams in pain for 15 minutes?

    Where is the compassion, the divine love, the mercy in such divine creation?

    Please…do not say that animals are lower forms of life that live in ignorance…or that they do not experience fear and physical pain as we do…or that all I need is to shift my perception. Pain is pain, brutality is brutality, whether it happens to an animal or a human.

    I am not questioning animal predators, who do not know better, I am questioning the concept of an exclusively loving God…who created the extremely brutal predator.

    This concept of an exclusively loving God (“God is love”), which is rooted in Christianity, appears to me to be faulty because incomplete.

    And again, animal do not learn from such polarity…they are programed to repeat the same behavior indefinitely, predators are not about to “evolve” and become gentle and compassionate vegetarians.

    Would love to get your comments…

  • Inger Lise

    That`s a nutcracker for sure.
    It is a possibiliy of the human souls are not meant to be inhabitants of the earth in the first place(of us not meant to be interfering with the nature from the very beginning)….Well, then we are back to very first physical creation, and asking ourselves of what went all wrong, eventually of to have “forced” ourselves within the human body(created by each one of us). And thereafter of to “face-the-consequenses.” The matter of cause and effect, which only to be excisting in the Third Dimensional World, or else not.

    Peculiar enough but the Seth Books by Jane Roberts telling otherwise.
    Everything will be a matter of the Creativity of/by-the Consciousness is it told. And the Creation will be boundless.
    Adding more “possibilities” to it as well, since time “Is a state of Mind.”

    Then death-belief will “Be Formed” by the MASS-Consciousness, yet individual.
    Since the beginning of time Death have been seen as “the transformation,” one way or the other.
    It is only in the western world of us have learned of to be “disconnected” when peoples are dying, and to be convinced of to have “lost” somebody.
    Both the Tibetean book of The Dead, as the Egyptian Book of the Dead, telling of “the phases” of us to go through……The Kabbalah telling of the same.

    OBE`s will be well known nowadays. And it is many books about it.

  • Will Richardson

    I watched my friend Patty slip away from her earthly bonds after a lengthy bout of cancer (actually three different cancers over several years). I felt honored and privileged to be able to watch her peacefully let go and begin her new life in what many term as heaven.
    It was sad for her friends to watch her leave, knowing that we would not have patty to talk to, go to movies with, work together and oh so many other ways that Patty found to interact with her many many friends.
    It was a joy to realize that Patty no longer had to ‘fight’ cancer and other earthly troubles. It was so peaceful that I envied her.
    I know she is here with me as I write this and comes to me whenever I think of her. And I miss her here in form and cherish the time I did have with her.
    Thank you Patty for the experience of YOU and for the demonstration of how to let go.

  • Davette

    Several, I work in a hospital. And every time it has been a great blessing and honor to witness the end of a cycle and the beginning of another.

  • *lisa*

    Mewabe- I’ve missed our conversations, been distracted my many things these past weeks.

    As physical human beings, we too are also programmed to repeat the same behaviors repetively. Clearly as is discussed in the thread about rejection. Although we somewhere along the acquired a consciouness that pushes toward change. It’s hard to say that animals such as hyenas will never evolve to the point of being compassionate toward one they used to hunt…

    Homo antecessor, one of our earliest known links in europe…how about that cannibalism, huh? For the most part, we humans have evolved to be empathetic about the other human you’re about to hack up and put in a pot.

    I have a question. If we did in fact physically evolve over the period of millions of years, from four to two legs, from unconscious to conscious, from merely existing, to problem solvers and creators . . . Were we (the soul) inhabiting those primitive bodies way back then?

    And if not, at what point did we (the soul) decide that the time was ripe to do that? It’s all a very strange and interesting story.

  • Carol Bass

    Yes, my dear brother-in-law. He was 53 and I was 43. I was holding his hand when he took his last breath. It was a strange feeling to see life end with one last breath. There he was one minute struggling to breath in a coma and the next minute here no more. Where did he go? What was it like? Did he feel anything? Very eerie and sureal. Did he know we were there around him?
    I also walked in my father’s hospital room to check on him and the very moment my sister and I walked in we wittnessed his chest rise and fall and not rise again….once again wittnessing the end of life. I think it changes you forever as you have been present at a very intimate time in a human’s life. Then you go on wondering why God chose you to be there. Especially if you have a wierd mind like mine…..always questioning and never sure of any answers. Alas….I will never know until I myself take my last breath.

  • Kristen

    Erin/iam – sorry I think I have the name wrong. Yes, I agree with you about pets. My heart got ripped out having to get my 13year old irish wolfhound eauthanised, at home, in her bed, knowing I had no choice after 3 weeks of palliative care as she was within hours of seizures and heart failure, but 3 years later I still feel like a cold blooded murderer. I will never have another dog, I never want to heal as I like my scar – it is a part of me and who I am, and has shaped me and taught me so much, and I still can’t wash her bedding. As horrible as this sounds when losing a pet is so superficial compared on children, I do not think I could possible grieve or miss my children more than I did with my dog, so I think you are right about your experience. Cats dying I can handle – just!

  • Inger Lise

    Kristen, you are almost like the husband of mine. The family of ours once of have had four dogs(but not at the same time), four cats, four goats, and 40 sheeps in running a small farm out at an Island. The farm was an inheritance by the husbands family.
    I was borned and raised in a city, thou the father of mine was raised on a farm, and we had a cabin in the mountains, but no animals in the childhood of mine.
    I have always loved animals(but am much more FLEGMATIC minded about death), but not all of them, as it is different “personalities” among the animals as well. It is told of the animals will “be shaped” by the owners, but it is not always true.
    I`ll guess it is the same among “the wild” animals as well.

    `lisa`….as of to have studied the E.C.material….according to the Edgar Cayce Readings…..is it “groupings of souls,” and the differently “Groupings” entering different “evolutionary” cycles in the Solar System of the Earth.
    Therefore astrology.
    Edgar Cayce telling of “the sojourns” done by us. But the readings also telling of it is US who have created the planets and the stars, and therefore of us not “to be ruled” by them(the planets and the stars), but of us “to read” the charactheristics in the interpretation of it, the birth-carts etc.etc.(of the astrology) related to each one of us.
    So, there it is once more, it seems to be related to the Free Will somehow, and the reason WHY of us to be here.

  • *lisa*

    Hi Inger –

    I have also read much Edgar Cayce, although many years ago, to include his Story of the Soul. Which does discuss his readings about pre ‘human’ beings and the soul’s role in creating and inhabiting them. I may have to dig that back out. It seemed very far fetched at the time, that we were the creators and inhabitants of bodies that are now considered only to be mythical monsters. A part of the experiment of creating the perfection of the human body.

    The first book I read was There Is A River, his biography and it was fascinating to learn about how simply he paid attention to his gift and how accepted he was in the medical community as far as his diagnosis and treatment of disease. I live within a days drive of Virginia Beach, Virginia and it is a goal of mine to one day visit his A.R.E building (Association of Research and Enlightenment), which houses his archives.

  • *lisa*

    Kristen – I have also experienced something similar.

    My grandfather, 87 years old, had a written directive that he did not want life prolonging measures, ie. tube feeding, fluids, etc. He had always been sort of a medical miracle but eventually the body does wear out. It was a Sunday when the hospital called the whole family in to discuss this. He was fully conscious and aware of the situation, his body was failing him, his mind was not. That day was the last day he received any food or water.

    Each day he slipped closer to leaving us, there was always one of us at his side to comfort him. By Friday he was in a full coma, yet I don’t believe unconscious, as his body did react to us coming in and out of the room. The whole family was there that day, to include his daughter that had not been there all week. After she stood by his side and talked to him, we were all out of the room for not more than a minute. The first time he’d been alone all week. And when we walked out, so did he.

    I did not feel sad for him, although I would miss him terribly. He was a huge part of who I have turned out to be. One of the things I learned from that experience was that the strength of our love and energy was keeping him here, in the room with us. Only when we left briefly, could he make a break for it. It gave me so much to think about since then.

    While all this was going on, my 14 yr old fat cat pal April was also declining, having seizures and such. Exactly one week later, I came home from evening shift and stayed up with her all night as she howled every five minutes through a seizure until the vet opened. I drove her down and as we got into the parking lot, she died in my arms. And I cried like I have never cried before. I was so heartbroken. She had been the constant companion through so much in my life and losing her in my arms meant just as much as losing my grandfather. People might say that’s crazy, but she was equally as important in my life.

  • Marko

    Mewabe, what most people don’t know is that animals that are prey can leave their bodies quickly and avoid the pain.

    Check out the writings of Penelope Smith & look into the magazine Species Link.
    http://www.animaltalk.net/species_link.htm

    This is the area of animal communication which is a bit of a underground area as far as many in mainstream & even spiritual communities are concerned.

    However it’s very spiritual & sacred community as far as animals & all life is concerned.

    Cheers,
    -Marko

  • Inger Lise

    Marko, you have certainly been unto several interesting web-sites !

    And lisa, how very interresting of you to have studied the E.C. Readings as well. I have thought many a time when of to do the study of the readings among the A.R.E. peoples….of how much of to have learned by it ! It gave me sooo much in return about the understanding of life!
    I have found many a time of either it “resonates” within you, or it does not.
    All of the peoples there are highly “educated” in every way. Praises to them of to have met. It is the Edgar Cayce study groupings online, as well as the small group-gatherings all over Europe too.
    It is one of my whises as well(even it is said to be all right of to be where we are “right now”)of to visit the Headquarters of the A.R.E. in Virginia Beach. You are lucky of to live close by it.
    In fact, ACIM is very close to the teachings of Cayce`s.

    The books by Neale as well, but the differencies of both ACIM and E.C. in comparisons with Neale`s(thou to me it seems to be a matter of the interpretations only)of to have The Christ-Consciousness…The Man Jesus, who became The Christ as “the forerunner” for all of us. The soul of Jesus as the first MAN(and of Him went through many incarnations as well, before of to become The Christ)….but as The Man/The Son of Man, became “The Son of God.” Back to The Original Source. And if not of to recall it all wrong, of us to be CREATED by Him. But Jesus(called by the name in the bibles, the same soul-group have had many other names)was the first “reason” of to make the perfect human body.
    We have discussed these matters once before. What the main reason of the story will be of Death do not excist originally….whether it is the animals or the Mankind. Simply put; “of us to overcome death”, and the fear/pain, of death.

    HA!! It have taken “the time” and several incarnation cycles(it is told to be the parallel worlds). It is said of us to have ended an 26.000 years cycle by 2012. All of us today have participated in it.

  • John

    Yes I have. I live in South Africa and worked as a taxi driver for a chain of restaurants a couple of years ago. As part of my job I had to pick up one of the hotel’s security guards in the township(ghetto/slums).

    As I sat waiting for the security guard to show up I saw a man walking across the field towards me. It was late at night and rather dark. I could see that he was struggling to walk. At first I thought he was drunk. When he was just across the street from me(about 10 meters) he collapsed.

    I jumped out of the car to go and help him, but before I could even cross the street the police had already showed up. They checked him for a pulse but he was already dead. Turns out he was stabbed in a bar fight.

    I remember thinking that he was probably just trying to make it to where I was parked in the street to ask me for help. It was rather unsettling to witness a dying man take the last few steps of his life. I sometimes wonder if I could have done something to help him. Realistically I know that nothing could have saved him, but I still sometimes think about it.

  • mewabe

    Lisa, I am not sure about the concept of evolution as it is currently presented…I have no beliefs regarding this, only questions. I am not even sure that animals are less evolved than we are…certainly they have many very specialized, amazing abilities that we lack, they are intelligent, and have far less problems than we do, perhaps due to the fact that they do not have such a complex neocortex as we do. They are simply different, moving in their own spheres of consciousness, being who and what they are and finding fulfillment in this…perhaps until they get bored with it and decide to change the game, at which point wildebeests will chew up on heynas ha ha…(I am secretly rooting for the wildebeests so far, until they in turn become predators).

    If there is a problem with this natural creation, it may be this: with must we all eat each other? Why can’t we all live on fresh air and clean water? This business of spending so much time, energy and resources to provide food is becoming old, isn’t it?

    Marko, I am not sure about this assertion that animals leave their bodies quickly…I am sceptical, the jury is still out on this as far as I am concerned.
    Certainly, the screams of a prey that is being slowly eaten alive, struggles to the very end and takes at least 15 minutes to die seem to attest to the contrary, and I am very leery of any statement (and there are many by scientists, by psychics and by spiritual teachers) whose only purpose seem to appease our concerns about suffering and reassure us that all is perfect under the sun, so we can remain undisturbed by the pain we see.
    Even humans go into shock under intense trauma, but that does not mean that there is a complete absence of pain.

    My point was that what we call God (or by any other name) is not just love…it is not exclusively love…it is everything…it is life and death, health and disease, clement weather and tornado, growth and decay, prey and predator, suffering and bliss, love and hate or love and fear, the divine creates, contains and experiences all of this within its infinite and eternal being, and infinitely more than we don’t even know about, yet.

    The idea that God is love exclusively is what routinely causes mainstream Judeo-Christians to loose it (to be angry at God and loose their faith) when disaster strikes them personally, seemingly without justification (as when “bad things happen to good people”).

    And so this intense break in faith, in my opinion, reveals the total inadequacy of such belief, not to mention that looking at the creation made such belief irreconcilable with the natural world in the first place, which is why Judeo-Christians conceptually separated the natural creation from God (Eden, the original sin, the “fall”) and subsequently called the wilderness “the abode of the devil”, because that’s the only way they could make their belief work logically (if God is all love and nothing but, he can’t be responsible for the savage aspects of the natural world, it must be our and the devil’s fault, we “sinned” and caused this mess, which is a punishment from God…because although he is all love, he is a very strict daddy).

  • Inger Lise

    He, He, Mewabe.

    This is reminding me of the popular song-hit by Tina Turner:”…what`s Love Got To do with it….” etc.(if not to recall it all wrong that is).

  • Kristen

    Having tried to hand rear many rescued baby birds, some with success, more with failure, I know when they are close to death or not going to make it, and will just hold them, with my other hand gently on top and ask my teacher, Gabriel, God or whomever is closest to allow them to pass if they feel it is time. I will then feel my top hand gently vibrate like a large hand with strong gentle energy is covering mine, distracting me, then 5 seconds later the little one has passed. I know how blessed I am to have this access. I would accidently torture the poor things trying to make them live.

    Mewabe – I have just challenged you in another post, sorry to do so again! Just as humans can leave their body before the time of death, and often do in times of rape or severe trauma (hence suppressed or very vague memories), wild animals as a personality also cease to exist prior to death. They just find somewhere safe and sheltered, go on a hunger and water strike and starve their body to death when they know they are beyond repair. You should ask for a ‘wise old man or shaman teacher’ who will teach you about these things if you are hungry to learn.

    *Lisa* – my father also had this, his dog passed in his arms in the vet reception. I was wrong about cats too, my sons cat is the most beautiful spirit in the world, he kisses us all goodnight, plays fetch, chirps at birds, wakes at night for cuddles around our faces, lifts his food up to his mouth with his front poor, has never once put his tail down and is so cute. Dammit, that one will destroy me when he goes, luckily he’s only just two.

    With my dog, obviously I prayed my little heart out that she would just pass in her sleep, or for a dog whisperer guide to help her and decide what was best as I couldn’t put her down without her clearly knowing how much she was/is loved and that I was doing it to stop her suffering but would do anything for each extra day, God & my teacher would not respond and she didn’t pass. Eventually an Angel, Gabriel I think, communicated a thought to me in tears, that God had heard me, and couldn’t help me as He loves me too much to break my heart or make that call for me, because He would allow my dog to suffer so I could have an extra day, either way I would hate Him so He had to step back. And also read me the footprints in the sand poem, which I know in Kabbalah they ask you to fill in the God words yourself when you get to one set of footprints. He used the words ‘because I love you so much, and know how complex and strong you are, I am allowing you to see this process through alone, but I will be back’. He also explained that domesticated and loved pets absorb their owners energy, thus creating a full soul from what would otherwise be a lifeforce, which is why dogs are like their owners. The downside of this is that they lose their natural death wish when suffering, and while generally still maintaining a natural hunger and water strike, they will not choose to pass, and often have to be collected when their body dies as a human generally does. I went beyond all my deadlines of when she can’t get out to the toilet, when she needs help to get out, when she needs help to stand up and pee, when she pees her bed, when her eyes are tired, when shes had no water for 3 days etc. Luckily the vet had told me how horrific her death would be if she fought, and had said when she is so dehydrated she cannot close her eyes properly I had no choice. Thats the legal limit for not allowing a pet to suffer. And I am glad. And still the damn dog is alert and wagging her tail and putting her arm (front leg) around us when we lay beside her when 3/4 dead. Luckily she passed after two syringes of heavy sedative, not the 3, then the 3 of murder drugs the vet thought she’d need. And God was right, to dig a hole in a large planter box and bury her right beside the house (awkward moment lifting 42kg of dead dog a mtr off the ground), was part of what I had to do. I do wish she’d died in her sleep though. And she stayed for 3-4 days, until I had to get her collected for her sake. Crazy hearing barks and feeling a dog ghost jump on your bed, and the cats watching her when you just buried her. She still visits sometimes, and strangely we have a cat ghost at the moment. Not mine, but it likes my room much to the disgust of my living cats.I think they can detect my portal to the Source so mistake us for the white light
    or whatever.

    Sorry to waffle on, but Marko and Mewabe there is a lot more to learn from experience than textbooks and the internet.

    NB – loving the universe/God right now even when it’s a lose/lose situation. Thanks to climate change, we are having a perfect summer. And as sucky as natural fires are, in Christchurch last week a bush fire destroyed a caged laying hen farm, with 18,000 in one barn. Garden centre next door wasn’t touched. When a fire is so fierce there isn’t even time to save anything I hope it was so quick the birds didn’t even notice.

  • mewabe

    Kristen, I do know that animals find a way to die in peace, as do many natural people (indigenous people), when the time of death approaches.

    “They just find somewhere safe and sheltered, go on a hunger and water strike and starve their body to death when they know they are beyond repair.”

    This is not at all what I was talking about.

    I was talking about a healthy prey being eaten alive by hyenas or wild dogs, and dying slowly while enduring great physical pain.

    And the point, once again, was…how does this picture fit with the Judeo-Christian concept of an exclusively loving God?

    It does not. That why Judeo-Christians conceptually had to separate Creator and creation, and to declare the creation to have “fallen” in to make sense of their belief.

  • mewabe

    I meant to write: “and to declare the creation to have “fallen” in order to make sense of their belief.”

    However Kristen…whatever works for you is good for you…and whatever works for me is good for me as well. I feel no need to challenge your beliefs or your thoughts in any way, only to clarify mine, so that if you disagree with me, you do so based on an accurate understanding of what I wrote, not on misunderstanding.

    That’s what communication is all about…

    Fair enough?

    I am glad to know you try to save birds, it show a good heart…I have rescued many critters, including an owl who became my friend.

  • Inger Lise

    What I have come to realize is of no death exists.

    Recalling once upon a time when the neighbours dog was taken to the vet because of to have got cancer. The neighbour never told us, since the dog was very close to the youngest son of mine(age 7 years old at the time). Exactly the very same morning of the neighbour went to the vet, and the dog died there, of to hear the “footsteps” of the dog went into the front-door of ours(the big Alsatian-dog of 7 years old, at the very same age as the youngest son), the dog managed of to open up the door by herself, and further went upstairs, came into the kitchen door where of me to stand with my back to the door doing the dish wash. I never turned around of to look, because of to be used to the dog of to do it each morning. And without of to turn around of to have a look at her….. told “Geisha”(the name of the dog), of Rune(the name of the son), had gone to school, so she was a bit too late of to follow him.
    And then of to hear the footsteps of the dog down the stairs and to vanish.

    First THEN of me to react ….because a deep sorrow fell upon me without to know the reason of WHY, and all of a sudden felt of to cry.
    In the afternoon the neighbour came of to tell me of Geisha died during the operation. I had to tell the son very carefully about it when he came home from the school.
    Since then of Rune have never forgotten “Geisha,” his companion and friend. Even of us to have had dogs by our own afterwards.

    There and then of to have understood of death do not exists.
    Geisha came to take “a farewell.”

    I have also witnessed an old auntie of to have died very peacefully, she KNEW on forehand, fully conscious about it, when she died of the old age. Nothing “fuss” with her.
    But on both sides of the family of mine there have been “psychics.”
    The mother of mine have had the capability of “to read” people at the first sight, but without of telling anybody otherwise of to keep it in the familiy.

    I have never had the same “sense” as the mother of mine.
    Dreams and clearaudience have been “the sixth sense” on my behalf.

  • Jules

    Yes, I have watched the last breath leave my grandfather. One long exhale then nothing. He was 94, frail and his body was wearing out. We knew it was just a matter of time. We were at my uncles house, it was a Sunday and we were having a family dinner. Grandpa wanted to lay down so we made room on the couch. He closed his eyes and while he slept, he let out his last breath.

  • Terri Lynn

    Yes. My experience was one of helplessness. To witness the body of another human being not being able to function is difficult to see and also enlightening at the same time because when life leaves the body it is vividly clear that a living person is much more than just a body.

  • Laura Pringle

    mewabe,

    I was hoping someone would embrace your query with more fervor, and offer more input. That wild animal footage you saw sounds quite disturbing and horrific, and it sure is food for thought about the nature of God, and why things are as they are.

    I don’t believe God is all “GOOD” stuff, love, fairies and ribbons either. I also don’t think God “cares” about us in the way we would like to think, (as in, how we care about those we love.) We project so much of what we idealize onto God, and I just don’t think that’s realistic. As you point out, wild animals can behave quite horrifically, and man did not make that so, God did!

    I have my own conversations with God on a pretty regular basis, and I was told this, in a recent inquiry:

    (You are evolving by leaps and bounds as can be shown by the simple fact that you ARE willing to listen to what others have to say, and you ARE sharing your stories in a kind, caring way that can help others to see another perspective.

    There ARE no answers, not in the way you think, because life is a series of random/creative happenings/moments which aren’t premeditated. There are things which are extremely UNfair, and karma doesn’t always come around in a lifetime, so many people have no faith in it. This is wise. Karma is simply the end-result of decisions and actions, and quite frequently, much time passes between the two.

    If you were to ask for advice, which you haven’t– I’d advise you of this: don’t have ANY expectations of outcomes. NONE whatsoever. You may hope, aspire to succeed at something, whatever, but ULTIMATELY, you have NO control over your surroundings. I know this is a disappointment, because humans fantasize about controlling their situations, and having special powers. I know you all secretly wish you had God’s power, but you don’t. Only I do, and you are but a pawn in my monumentally huge game of which you really have NO SAY.

    This saddens you, but really, it should gladden your heart. It takes responsibility away from you. You ARE ignorant, in every moment of your life in the flesh, you are ignorant of true reality, and all that is around you. I never, ever, blame you for this ignorance, nor should I, since it is my design that you exist this way. Yet, each moment, you have the capability to shut off your MIND, and meditate into your soul and reconnect with my light. WHEN you do this, peace and love enfold you, and all the stress and worry of what you don’t understand just washes away. I STRONGLY recommend this, because it makes this existence SO much better… Amen. )

    So, that was a recent message which came to me as I was crying and wondering why the hell I am even here in the flesh.

    I think God is the full spectrum of good, evil, everything in between, and all we can really do is accept that we are very limited, yet somehow, very powerful at the same time.

  • Inger Lise

    Well, do not know if it is “the proper thing” of to do on this web-site, but I`ll recommend the Seth-Material(and the rest of “the Seth-“books). It`ll blow your mind off the hook. All of what you have thought and of have believed before….forget it ! Voila….(I do not speak spanish).

  • Frank Morfi

    I strongly believe that everyone that dies returns to God. I feel sadness because of the physical separation from the person who has moved on, but no overwhelming feeling that I causes me grief.
    The following is something I wrote to my son in a book I wrote entitles “Conversations with my Child’ an open dialogue, from heart to heart” which I have not yet published.

    I start the page by saying to him:
    I’d like to share something brief with you regarding death.

    ETERNITY REIGNS

    To speak of death is something most people avoid and prefer not to discuss; in fact, it’s not an easy subject to address and a lot of people are afraid to even talk about it.

    But, it’s important that we understand that separation from our loved ones is only temporary; it does not last.

    Love never dies, son. It’s impossible to do away with love. Love is Eternal.

    WE ARE ALL A PART OF ETERNITY; IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO SEPARATE US FROM HER.

    That which is now, will continue to be.

    Death is only a transient visitor in our physical bodies. When it decides to dwell in our body, we abandon it and return home. There will come a time when we will meet again.

    No, my son, we never ever have to fear death. Death is only a return trip home, and God is our destination.

  • Frank Morfi

    I’d like to have a conversation with you Neale’ just to interchange some thoughts. How can I go about establishing it?

  • mewabe

    Inger, I did read the Seth material in the 90’s, all of it, and I thought it was very interesting…as with anything else, I don’t agree with absolutely everything, but most of it is mind blowing, she goes very deep into stuff (more than most) and I can relate to most of it.

    There are some gems in these books, such as “the present is your point of power”, “you create your own reality” (this has been adopted by many subsequent spiritual teachers but I think she initiated it, and she explains it at great length, both in term of the person and at the mass consciousness level), etc…

    I particularly like the way Jane Roberts emphasizes connection, unity, oneness…much of this resonates with the Native American worldview at the deeper level, which is interesting as her grandfather was Native American and had a strong connection to the natural world.

  • mewabe

    Thank you Laura…I knew this was a sticky point to approach for most, so I was not expecting much of a response, as many people here have a Judeo-Christian background and haven’t shed too much of their conditioning.

    As, for example, the idea that God is a destination…that’s very Judeo-Christian. The truth as I see it is that the divine is not a destination, it is all around us and within us, and the only reason why most do not see and experience such a truth is that they give the divine a very limited definition and then discard most of life as not being imbued with such divine qualities because not meeting these specific expectations.

    The definition, as you mentioned and I agree, is that God is “good” (in OUR terms). We indeed have expectations of God, we want “him” to be our daddy, unconditionally loving, understanding, infinitely patient and protective, and having our very best interest at heart.

    Then a hurricane hits and kills people and destroys a town, and we wonder what that was all about, and we pray and dream about going “home” with “daddy”, where there are no hurricanes (and no bugs or viruses, no mean people, no taxes, not of anything we define as undesirable…but there is an endless supply of soft elevator music and chocolate ice-cream, or streets paved with gold for the wealth-oriented).

    That basically resumes the Christian perspective…which is why I cannot relate to most people here, on this website, only a few, such as you and others, who are not afraid of looking and thinking further, past old or new dogma, even when it is uncomfortable, unsettling.

    Yes, I agree, the divine is everything…and perhaps we must look at it this way: the divine cannot be caught and kept within the perimeters of our judgements about good and evil…these judgements are so small, so narrow, and so self serving.

    In the case of the hyenas and wildebeest, what is “evil” for the wildebeest is “good” for the hyenas. Good and evil are extremely relative terms…and the divine cannot abide by OUR expectations, because it is more than all of that, infinitely more that we can presently understand, and yes abandoning the idea of control may very well be the first step toward true understanding, perhaps even towards enlightenment.

    Indeed when we stop fearing, we stop having the urge to control, it works like magic, and we release so much of our thoughts and energy towards greater and more fulfilling pursuits (more fulfilling than the struggle to control, whether we attempt to control our thoughts, our feelings or our lives, or the nature of God).

  • Inger Lise

    Mewabe you are a good friend.
    Actually of me too began of study the Seth Books back in the 1990thies, but have newly picked them up again. It is quite remarkable of to be re-reading “old” books, and oftentimes of to have felt of not to have understood them properly the first time around when of to have read them. I do believe in of what Jane is telling, but sometimes as of others telling as well, of it is a matter of the inner Experience when of to read that counts. “Seth” always telling of it is dependent upon the reader of to do the discernment in every way.

    And always love the way of you explaining the things.
    ince the childhood of to have felt strong bonds with the nature(deeply bounded to the nature). I was very lucky of to have had parents who brought us siblings up to be nature lovers.
    Wonders of you to have read the book of Chief Seattles Speach to the Congress?
    I have tried of to find it in the book shelters of mine but as it is a rather “thin” book is it hard of to find it(it is more as a thick pamphlet). I`ll try again tomorrow as it is late evening “over here.”

  • mewabe

    Thank you Inger, you are a friend too…
    I particularly liked “Unknown Reality” 1 and 2, “The Nature of Personal Reality”, and “The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events”…
    Yes I know about Chief Seattle Speech…it fell on deaf ears in North America, as most of what Native Americans have said for the past 500 years.

    Here is a YouTube link…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=mMLVXgSgCyM

    “At the end of this life, we look forward to our journey”, a Native American perspective on life and death, the earth, and the unity of all life.

    The song at the end of this short video is a Lakota (Sioux) Woman Honoring Song…
    Translation:
    Women of the Earth
    Use your heart, mind, body and spirit
    From you, generations are born and learn
    The People look to you for guidance.

    And here is what America has done to the original people, what they call Native Americans, here is what America has reduced them to:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPf__SCS69U

    This is totally off topic, but since you brought up Chief Seattle…

  • mewabe

    I posted a comment that is awaiting approval because it has 2 videos links, but I wanted to thank you Inger, in the meantime.

  • Inger Lise

    Thank you as well Mewabe.
    I have found the small book, but it is translated into norwegian.
    The title of it is:”We are a part of the Earth.”

    But inside of the cover is it told of to be many outlets of the Chief SEATHL SPEACH.
    In the one of I have got, is it telling of to be a copy based upon the text used in the american documentary movie: “Home.” Further is it told of the original speach was held in 1854, not to the american president Pierce, but to the Governor Stevens, who had become the new emissary of the indian affairs in Washington.
    One of the attendees took thorough notes of the speach, and these notes have made the foundation for all later versions of the speach.

  • Inger Lise

    I`ll be looking up the link of you to have given US. Thanks a lot.

    In my mind nothing will be “off” the topic…..don`t you agree?
    Everything which comes to us out of spontaneity have reason and a meaning.

    It seems (for us of to realize)… the fact….ALL OF US to be the natives in the earth.

    Heartily.
    P.S. I`ll believe mostly all of the norwegians knowing at the surface an amount(at least on the surface according to the books about it), how the indians have been treated throughout the centuries. The emigrants from scandinavia have been a part of it as well.
    Even here in Scandinavia of us to have a population up in the northren territories called “Samer”……or the Samic peoples(but their outlook will be the very same as the rest of us thou)…..very peculiar.

    Okay, back to ETERNITY and the transformation of DEATH.

  • Inger Lise

    P.S. Mewabe? I have wanted to tell of you to have given me more than you are aware of….All of a sudden have realized much more “of The Personal Reality”, and of The Mass-Consciousness.
    And the translation of the song is beautiful, thank you very much indeed.

  • mewabe

    Yes Inger, we are all native of the earth…we are earth people. Most, especially today, do not know this though, and act as if they were strangers, feeling no connection to the life around them.

    I suspect that this state of mind does not change when they pass on, when they die, and that they remain disconnected and disoriented for a short time (or a long time) while in spirit form. After all, life is life, whether in spirit or in the physical, and when a person does not feel connected, s/he is essentially lost.

    The connection to the earth, to life, is a spiritual connection…it is done at the soul level. That’s what Native Americans knew, and what Indo-Europeans have forgotten through the centuries, and still do not remember (most of them)

    I have heard of the Sami…some Native Americans visited them, and were surprised at the similarities…all Indigenous people have similar worldviews and ties to the earth.

    So I think it is very important to connect spiritually while we are here…after all there is nothing like the present, and it is the only way (in the present moment) eternity can be found.

    Those who expect instant enlightenment or to be automatically transported to some heavenly realm (“reunited with God”) after physical death will be sorely disappointed…heaven is HERE NOW or it is nowhere to be found…and HERE NOW means here now, not after death. The divine presence knows no time, it can only be known in the eternal present, wherever we are.

    If we do not learn to fully immerse our BEING in the here and now, we won’t be able to do so later on either (such as after death) and will still be lost within the confines of our mind, of concepts of past and future, and blind to the present divine reality.

    Sorry, I did not mean to rant or preach…these are just some thing I know about death, that contradict what is believed by so many here, on this site.

    Thank you Inger…

  • mewabe

    About my above comment, to clarify, I did not mean to imply that if someone is not spiritually fully immersed in the here and now he or she will be lost forever on the other side…what I meant to say is that Heaven is within…and the most direct “path” to the divine is here and now, wherever we are, in spirit or in flesh.

    Dying is simply a passage into another dimension, another birth. In this new dimension, as in the present one, we have opportunities to find our way back to the divine or to get confused and lost, as we do here, depending on choice and focus, and on the nature of our beliefs.

    False beliefs, illusions, delusions do not automatically evaporate after death…we need to make a choice to change, before death or after, and to understand.

    Upon death there is no automatic reunion with God anymore than there is here, there is only a passage into a lighter dimension, where the consequences of our thoughts, beliefs and actions are more rapid, and at times immediate, while consequences take much more time to manifest on this earthly realm.

    And so a person who believes in judgement and in guilt, who believes in hell and the devil and demons, will experience such things (“believe and you will see”) as long as s/he keep believing in such things, and in his/her own guilt. Obviously such experiences are experiences in consciousness, creations of our own psyches.

  • Amy

    I did bare witness to transition (death). It was all and it was nothing. The experiencing put every other experience in perspective.

  • Inger Lise

    Mewabe, it is soooo very true of what you are telling(at least for me that is, cannot be speaking for the others), and much of what you are telling also will b e confirmed in the Edgar Cayce Readings(if not all of it).

    When of to have participated within “the study-groups” among the Edgar Cayce friends, of us discussing of E.C. was brought up within “the Bible-belt of Kentucky”, and his only “book of to read” was the Bible in the early childhood and in the youth.
    E.C. told of to have had the experiences with “the Nature-Spirits” from the early childhood, and of him of to be communicating with “the Nature Spirits” all the way.

    It is for all of us “to see” within, if only “to be awakened.”

    And sitates a reading by E.C., “The Universe is only an atom in the universe of worlds.”

    Amy? It is YOUR experience, that`s the clue.

  • Inger Lise

    P.S. …..a correction: The EARTH is only an atom in the universe of worlds.”

  • doug

    Yes, in April 2005 I was with my dear mum-in-law when she passed from this world. I remember walking onto the intensive care ward and, even though I knew what the outcome was going to be for her- as she had bravely chosen to refuse all further medical interventions- I still found it a shock to hear the nurse say to me, “She is going to die tonight.”

    I sat with her right to the end. I recall holding her hand for ages, just talking to her occasionally. After a couple of hours I saw a mental image of what we in England call a “Yorkshire pudding”- a batter pudding- which is something she was always very good at making for us, and her cooking was excellent. I said to her, “Jean, thank you for all you have done for us in our lives.” Shortly afterwards, the air around me became very cold, icy cold, and I felt a vibrant energy all around me. I am sure it was an angel come to collect her. I prayed and wished her peace and told her, “I love you Jean.” At that moment she left her body.

    I will never forget the beautiful, peaceful look on her face at the moment she passed over. She had been a kind, loving lady but had not really been peaceful for many years, due to her many long-term physical ailments. But that night she just looked so peaceful. It was wonderful, and a true privilege to share her final moments on this Earth.

  • mewabe

    Thank you Inger…
    I just had an interesting experience about death, about a person that was close to me.

    She passed away, and felt herself “stuck” in a rather unpleasant “area” (dimension of consciousness and projection), and psychically asked me for help. She was in a kind of a psychic “bubble”, isolated and apprehensive, anxious.

    I was able to help her get “unstuck”, liberated…through a simple process I intuitively developed that included a prayer. It was extremely effective and powerful, almost too powerful for her (energetically like a lightening bolt piercing through and opening dimensions).

    Because I have done this, psychically, many times (even with a mass murder who found himself in an extremely unpleasant, horrid state of consciousness), I just want to say this to anyone who may be interested, and who has an open mind: be very careful about what you believe, because beliefs take forms almost immediately on the other side, and create your reality as a perfect reflection of your state on consciousness.

    Be particularly extremely careful of any beliefs in your own guilt. Resolve such issues before death if you can. And try to release all thought concerning the existence of evil or hell.

    This is more important than you can presently comprehend…it is crucial.

    Dannion Brinkley mentioned, about his third (I think, if I remember correctly) near-death experience, seeing many people on the other side being “stuck” just as I described it. He actually saw multitudes in this state of uncomfortable psychic isolation…

    Guilt is almost always the thing that causes this illusion of a psychic isolation from the divine source…a belief in one’s own guilt. And self-generated guilt, acknowledged or not, conscious or unconscious, is extremely widespread.

    This is what must be remembered: even illusions take forms on the other side. All beliefs, all thoughts are projected and immediately create what appears to be our surroundings in spirit form.

    Self-guilt is a mental process, it is a thought. The way out of it is through the heart, the only doorway, through feeling, through understanding that all comes from love (even the most atrocious actions) and returns to love, if the threads of all thoughts and actions are followed all the way to their origin and the suffering that caused more suffering is understood…with divine support, with keeping the divine presence in mind, as the divine can only see us as we truly are, without any blemish, in complete, unconditional innocence.

  • Inger Lise

    It is remarkable accurate of what I have learned too Mewabe. You have a way of expressing the matters which is clearly put.
    And I have been to a conference where Dannion Brinkley telling of the NDE`s of him to have experienced. Love IS all that matters, and it is the love “that passes understanding.” When the heart “speaks”….never try of to analyze it, (is it told), just follow the intuitive heart.

    It is another good book about the same by Howard Storm. Howard Storm also told of to experience “hell” at first in his own NDE. But it is because of “the state of mind” of us to be in when living and when of passing over to the other side. It is therefore of importance of to resolve most of “the miseries”(at least of to TRY it)before death, or “passing over to the other side”, as of have learned of to articulate death, by the E.C. studies.
    The OWN heart first that is.

  • mewabe

    I could not agree more, Inger…indeed deep personal issues (anger, fear, guilt, hopelessness etc) need to be resolved before death if possible…and yes, the path, the way, the doorway is through the heart.

    Love is light, knowledge, understanding, life, being, energy, power and freedom…all that the nations and humanity attempt to reach or achieve by using absolutely everything except love!

    This love is absolutely free of judgment…yet each one of us knows when we are off track (we have an internal compass called our conscience), while believing in separation for example, which leads to fear and apparent selfishness (what is selfishness? It is not a sin, it is not a crime…it simply means stopping the flow of love, holding in the energy, it means a disconnection from the natural universal patterns of energy exchanges. The selfish, fearful person only deprives himself, she cannot hurt anyone but herself).

    The greatest betrayal of all is spiritual self-betrayal…to betray the divine within. Fear can lead to this, and ultimately engenders immense guilt. The way back is, indeed and always, through the doorway of love.

  • Inger Lise

    Mewabe, you are a blessing. Do not know how “old” you are in this life-time around, but surely of it has been “a long run” of to come to the same understanding for myself(at the age of 67 years old).

    BUT it is remarkable MANY youngsters nowadays who seems to have aquired the same “understanding” in a very early age.
    F.inst.once of to have “met” online (in one of the E.C. study groupings) a young girl of the age 13……THIRTEEN years old……from Bangladesh originally, but who lived in INDONESIA now. She never told us participants of her original age before of “to have learned” each others to be aquinted in the group-connection of the Internet-online course. AND she wrote fluently english, not as of I am doing. We(the rest of the group), became totally flabbergast all of us, as the rest of the participants were “eldery” of course. The young girl told of living amongst the muslims only, but she had an eldery brother who have thought in the same way as she did, and he was “the protection” and the companion of hers in the same “thinking.”

    Sometimes the world will be felt “as The Magical Approach,”
    indeed !

  • mewabe

    Thank you Inger, you are very kind…

    I only read one book of Edgar Cayce, that had to do with the earth…most of what I understand or feel has come from actual life experience. I have had visions and dreams, psychic experiences, and I always followed, from the time I was very young, what some call a spiritual path (my quest was and is for truth, no matter how difficult the path, I was willing).

    I always felt that humans did not live their truth. So I followed my own way, that had to do with a very strong and unique spiritual connection to nature, to the divine creation. I followed no known religion or spiritual teaching but my own intuitive way…and I still do, and encourage everyone to do likewise, as all the answers to all our questions or needs are within you, and all are unique.

    I had at some point the equivalent of a near death experience…except I was fully conscience and alive…I felt the power of love and light all around me and in me…I saw a radiant inner spiritual light in all things, and a love so powerful coming from some beings (from the “other side”) it was almost unbearable. I felt no weight, I was weightless. I experienced spiraling energies, like a vortex, descending upon me, enveloping me and “transporting” me into a spiritual dimension.

    This spontaneous experience lasted 3 months, and I actually thought I was going to leave this earth, and wanted to, as I saw and felt so much beauty beyond anything that can be described (even colors that we do not experience in this world).

    I was very opened, during that time, to the “other side”, and saw people, and heard them, and felt their feelings. I saw people I had known and loved in other lives, and was made to remember. And I was shown some unpleasant experiences I had in some lives, and their connection to this life.

    I was blessed beyond anything I could imagine, and I want to put my story out somehow, to inspire others, to remind them than there is more to life than we think, and that love is the common thread, the energy that connects past, present and future and all life.

    I no longer believe, I know beyond the shadow of any doubt. That’s why I am no longer concerned with beliefs…

  • Inger Lise

    Absolutely agree with you as usual Mewabe, the dear friend of the earth and the heavenly realms(which is manifested here and now..)

    Many a time have thought of the words “of us to BE the surroundings.”
    ….Recalling of somebody once told:” Look around you and watch WHO you are…” But truly GETTING IT, took quite a while of to grasp for me.

    It is a process to many.

  • mewabe

    Thank you Inger, yes there is really no separation between us and everything else, all life. There is distinction, but no separation….

  • Marko

    “Marko, I am not sure about this assertion that animals leave their bodies quickly…I am sceptical, the jury is still out on this as far as I am concerned. Certainly, the screams of a prey that is being slowly eaten alive, struggles to the very end and takes at least 15 minutes to die seem to attest to the contrary, and I am very leery of any statement (and there are many by scientists, by psychics and by spiritual teachers) whose only purpose seem to appease our concerns about suffering and reassure us that all is perfect under the sun, so we can remain undisturbed by the pain we see.
    Even humans go into shock under intense trauma, but that does not mean that there is a complete absence of pain.”

    The jury is not still out on this Mewabe, but most people are unaware of the animal communication community. Even most people in the spiritual community are not aware of this.

    Bodies can still writhe in pain when the animals is still out of the body.

    This does not mean animals don’t suffer pain, they certainly can & do. Also you & others are putting a lot of your own projected human judgment around this subject. Understandably but you have the smaller picture.

    Animals understand the game of life they are in & know what’s up, more so than we do. Some animals allow pain in medical experiments & have soul groups that do this even at great peril & their own suffering. How noble is that! Does that mean we should allow it to continue. Well the best way is to ask the animals themselves. Let me give you an example.

    I took a workshop with world renowned animal communicator and author Penelope Smith some years back. I remember her telling me that when she was at the Findhorn Foundation a story about asking animals if they could be eaten. In this case it was goats and the answer that the goats gave varied from animal to animal.

    Some said “No” others said “Not now but later.” Some said “Yes & would be honored to give their lives to people who were so respectful to the animals wishes. This is hard for many to hear & understand as they have such human judgements around this as some of the posts above have indicated.

    Rabbits are very revered in the animal kingdom because they give their lives up more easily than others. A black widow spider eats the male so that the young ones get the full essence of the father in them. These may be unacceptable answers to you and others. But things like this are the alternative voices that animals have & sometime people like you and others are not aware of.

    I’m not here to convince you, but offering an alternative voice that’s not heard in the mainstream. People have huge charged issues on animals & vegetarianism & I’ve looked deep into these issues and found information from the animals points of view as well as the people who revere & talk to the animals, (which can vary from animal to animal).

    I offer this to some of the posts above which I just saw today on this issue. Hopefully it helps expand the narrow charge judgmental opinions so many have. The open mindedness of people here make it possible to consider some of these alternative viewpoints.

    Magical blessings,
    -Marko

  • mewabe

    Marko, I am totally aware, and have been for quite a while, of the existence of “animal communicators”.

    And I know that all psychics only hear or get what their consciousness allows them to get, as we all do. They do not have access to “The Truth”, but to what their own psyche filters. Likewise, we are all filters, and only see and hear what we allows ourselves to.

    So there is no absolute truth when it comes to animal communication results, anymore than with anything else.

    Until I see an animal willingly walking to the person or the predator who will put it down, I will not believe that animals willingly “give” their lives.

    I find it particularly offensive when an “animal communicator” states that some animals give their lives for laboratory experiments.

    It is offensive because it smacks of a human attempting to validate human cruelty (some of these experiments are totally unnecessary and downright sadistic, and only done to keep getting funding) in order to appease human conscience.

    To validate human sadism and cruelty while packaging the message in pseudo-spiritual terms is in my opinion very cowardly. It is the exercise of denial pushed to the limit of decency.

    But my point, which you missed, was about excruciating pain, not about death.

    I know that there is cooperation in the natural world between prey and predator…otherwise the zebra would adapt and grow claws and fangs to fight the lion, according to evolution.

    Animals feel physical pain, probably even more so than we do, as their senses are so much more developed than ours. When a hyena eats a live prey through the abdomen, there is intense and lasting pain.

    And my main point which you also missed was to demonstrate that the divine encompasses much more than what we believe…it is not all angelic gentleness.

    The divine reality encompasses life and death, pleasure and pain, health and illness, clement weather and hurricanes, etc, and yes, we can agree on this, none of it should be judged in the natural world, whether in positive or negative terms, because all judgment are limited projections.

    However, there is such a thing as human compassion, which appears to be completely absent among “animal communicators” who validate laboratory experiments.

    Such exercises in sadism are not part of the natural way, there are not a part of the natural creation. They are a human aberration, a human pathology thinly disguised as science, and they are not necessary.

  • mewabe

    Let me try to explain a little better, Marko…

    The religious person who says that God is love, mercy, compassion EXCLUSIVELY cannot reconcile some of the brutal, seemingly cruel and merciless aspects of the wilderness with such a limited vision.

    That’s why religious people said, particularly in the 19th century, “the wilderness is the abode of the devil”.

    That’s why the Bible talks about the “fall”. Because in the Heavenly version of an exclusively merciful and loving God, the lion and the lamb sleep side by side and are great friends.

    And the “animal communicators” whom you quote do the same thing: denying the cruelty and brutality that exists in the wilds, stating that animals leave their bodies in trauma, etc, in other word saying that it is all “good”, there is no or very little suffering.

    Because to see such suffering is to question the Judeo-Christian concept of an exclusively merciful God…it is to look at a much more expanded divine reality…one that suggests that God is not just love, it is everything…it is ALL LIFE, and all life means just that: pain and pleasure, love and fear, life and death, and so much more than we can even imagine at this point.

    But when scientists or “animal communicators” make such an outrageous and ridiculous, self-serving (in human terms) statement as “animals do not feel pain”, the army feels empowered to experiment on animals, causing them horrible wounds and trauma in order to train its medics…for example, cutting their limbs with tree trimmers.

  • Marko

    “So there is no absolute truth when it comes to animal communication results, anymore than with anything else.”

    Agreed, but when a sincere AC (Animal communicators)& sincere person come together in helping the human to understand the animals perspective, I believe it brings more clarity & healing. I’ve seen it myself in my own experience.

    “I find it particularly offensive when an “animal communicator” states that some animals give their lives for laboratory experiments.”

    It’s the animals perspective not the communicators & it’s not the norm, but it has happened, that animals give themselves in that way. & as I said it varies from animal to animal. I also gave the example of what happens when you ask an animal about being eaten. We got various answers. I know this is not acceptable to your common sense & it’s not the case for all animals.

    “But my point, which you missed, was about excruciating pain, not about death.”

    Yes & like all pain, it’s temporary & is not the whole of a life.

    Some cats prefer to be feral having a very hard life compared to the cushy life of a standard house cat. It’s not all the black & white. What AC find out is that animals perspectives often surprise & shatter previous notions we have about them. Answers that they never would have imagined.

    “And the “animal communicators” whom you quote do the same thing: denying the cruelty and brutality that exists in the wilds, stating that animals leave their bodies in trauma, etc, in other word saying that it is all “good”, there is no or very little suffering.”

    There is no denying the brutality. I said that animals get the game & understand it more than we do. I know many who have communicated about horrible deaths of even domesticated animals & there are many levels and layers. A larger picture emerges. Many echo ideas in Home With God though what was revealed happen way before HWG came out.

    “And my main point which you also missed was to demonstrate that the divine encompasses much more than what we believe…it is not all angelic gentleness.”

    No, it’s not & part of that is, that this will change by the elevating consciousness of humans. We play a larger part in shaping the future of this.

    “However, there is such a thing as human compassion, which appears to be completely absent among “animal communicators” who validate laboratory experiments.”

    AC do not validate laboratory experiments. But they can be surprised that their are other perspectives than just the cruelty aspect of which we are all familiar with. I can see now that I should have put that part of it in a larger context to make it more understandable but the statement is still true though not necessarily common.

    If you were a reader of Species Link & related material, done some the workshops (like I have) you’d have a very different perspective. I’m giving an alternative view which you may find unacceptable & that’s fine.

    I do totally get the outrage of experiments & that is why I looked into this alternative communication which is really normal but lost.

    AC’s have a very high ethical oath that they sign to be listed in Species Link,– these are very spiritual people. Now while I’m not here to convince you out of your own personal beliefs, I’m okay to correct or add to some misconceptions you have & that we all have when an alternative perspective is not known.

    Before the globalconversations.com went to the newspaper direction & was focused on Neale’s book the Storm before the Calm I addressed this in the areas where people talked about animal cruelty & eating meat. I found that many people are so entrenched in their rigid beliefs & prejudices, that this often, (not always) gets in the way of meaningful dialog. I’ve done this before showing a differ perspective just as CwG shows a differ perspective, that heretofore was not known.

    We are all free to make up our own mind on this.

    Magically,
    -Marko

  • Scott

    Hello Mewabe, Marko & everyone else here at TGC

    After reading the posts I thought it might be interesting to point out that PAIN is not the same thing as SUFFERING.

    Pain is a physical sensation, suffering is a judgment about the experience. Some people actually LIKE pain. Otherwise there would be no one out there selling their sevices with whips to willing customers, which of course there are.

    Athletes are often told to “Learn to love the pain” by their teamates & coches & indeed the pain they feel on the battle field of their choice is confermation of their successes.

    There are also people that can disappear pain at will & others that have a very high tolerance to pain to the point of it not being considered to be suffering at all.

    Perhaps animals have a very different experience of what pain is than we can imagine. They might be connected to the universe in such a way that allows them to have a totally different experience of what we call pain.

    I am not trying to make a case for cruelty. I detest any kind of direct cruelty of any kind, I only wish to make the point that there is much more to be aware of than we are at the moment. That at another level our existance is experienced as the illusion that it is & no real harm is ever done. Nothing has ever died & all life is eternal & only changes form.

    Got to go, check back later

    Love first always & in all ways

    Scott

  • Marko

    Well step on a cat’s tail & you will have the answer. 🙂

    Some animals will tell you when they are in great pain whether or not they want to be put down. Some will live with the pain to be with you, others are ready to go. It’s all individual.

    Magically,
    -Marko

  • mewabe

    I understand Marko and you have a right to your own truth, I simply do not agree, and it is not out of ignorance, misconception, limitation or projection. As I mentioned, I have been well aware of the findings of “animal communicators” for quite some time.

    I question all things from everyone without exception, and do not accept other people’s “findings” or “teachings” simply because they seem “qualified” (such as being “very spiritual”…according to whose standards?)

    I only follow my own truth.

    That potentially makes me a black sheep in many a circle of followers.

    And my own truth is as far from the “mainstream” as can be imagined.

    To call my truth a misconception or a mere opinion or belief is in itself a mistake, which you are free to make, but which is a limited perception that may come from a need to be “right”.

    I do not reduce your own truth to a “misconception” or “misunderstanding”…I accept it as being different.

    I choose to follow the path of compassion, and to reduce or end suffering wherever it exists. It is not a religion, it is my own heart speaking.

    I accept the wilderness and natural laws and would not intervene between a predator and a prey, but I do not accept the needless sadistic laboratory experiments people impose on animals, neither do I accept the horrid way animals are treated in the meat industry (such as factory farms), without care and without any form of the most basic respect or appreciation, ALL IN THE NAME OF FASTER AND GREATER PROFITS and nothing more.

    When industries reduce everything to a marketable commodity, even sentient beings such as animals, when they put a dollar sign on everything and are exclusively concerned with faster and cheaper production, they literally desecrate life, they take the heart and soul out of life, and by doing so people diminish their own, by trashing life they trash their own and take the Spirit out of their own life.

    This, humans have done with all nature, and we can see the outcome all around us as well as in humanity, with widespread mental illness and addictions.

    It is humanity’s loss, in the end. As you wrote, animals will not suffer long, relatively speaking. But humanity will, because of its lack of love, appreciation and respect for life.

    The meaning of anything is in the intention. Torturing animal for profits (such as in factory farms) is not a spiritual endeavor and produces nothing that could remotely be seen as spiritual.

  • mewabe

    “Perhaps animals have a very different experience of what pain is than we can imagine. They might be connected to the universe in such a way that allows them to have a totally different experience of what we call pain.”

    Thank you for your input, Scott…but the words “perhaps” in your paragraph makes my point very clearly: indeed, we do not know…as long as we do not know for certain, why not err on the safe, compassionate side and refrain from causing what could be excruciating pain?

    To exercise cruelty upon animals because they “might” not feel pain as badly as we do, or perhaps not at all, or perhaps differently according to individuals, seems to me to be an extremely ruthless and non spiritual approach to life.

    Will an “animal communicator” stand at the gate of each slaughterhouse asking each individual animal whether it is ready to “give” its life on this particular day? If not, then we are taking animals’ lives against their will.
    There is no way out of this fact.

    Will an “animal communicator” stand at the door of each laboratory and ask each animal whether it is willing to be tortured in grotesque, sadistic experiments? If not, we are torturing animals against their will. Let’s face it.

    The way I define suffering, in the human experience, is as follow: chronic pain, pain (whether emotional or physical) that cannot be resolved and released.

    For example, emotionally speaking, the neurotic is not consciously in pain, but the neurotic is suffering, precisely because s/he does not feel and release his or her emotional pain.

    Speaking of a cat’s tail Marko, I doubt very much that you could find a single cat that tolerates having its tail stepped on…just as I doubt that you could find a single cat that would choose to have its head opened and electrodes put in its brain for weeks on end while its open wound festers and putrefies, and it becomes blind from the damage and finally dies in agony alone in its cage.

    We can try to rationalize such abominations as long as we want, but until a human volunteers to take the place of a laboratory animal, I will not believe in voluntary torture.

  • mewabe

    Scott, when you say that no harm is ever done…I understand this point of view.
    Ultimately, nothing ever dies.

    But again, intention is everything. The person who tortures an animal (or a human being) ultimately only causes temporary pain to his victim…but every act that is as a denial of love (such as cruelty, sadism) takes “something” out of the soul of the perpetrator.

    Such a thing is not a divine punishment…it is a universal law. The further we go from love, which includes compassion, the smaller we become. Not forever…as love always welcomes us back. But as long as we stay away from love, we remain small in Heart and Spirit.

    This may be one of humanity’s current problems.

    That’s how I see it anyway…

  • Marko

    My point was that cats feel pain & just step on their tail & you will find out. Obvious.

    As for the rest of your last 2 posts, I’ve said my piece & I do not feel I speak for all AC but from my personal experience & my experience with working with them for over 20 years.

    You (in my opinion) are still judging what animals do or don’t want & there can be a soul level that they are on that goes beyond the human reasoning, the same way tragedies on the human scale can’t be explained by the mind alone. If the mind knew it would have painful experiences ahead of time (that is coming to the human experience) it would do all it could to prevent it & yet we have consensual amnesia. Can not this be the same for animals?

    So there are decisions are made on a soul level. No one argues here about the brutality of animals & the desire to stop it. That’s obvious stuff to any compassionate person.

    What people don’t realize is there’s more than meets the eye here & in-spite of your saying you know a lot about this side of communication, your responses tells me you have some blind spots.

    So we agree to disagree & leave in peace knowing that all is perfect. Life is perfect including our desire to change it. When life sucks it sucks perfectly. It’s all perfect.

    Finally:

    My 3 step personal “transitional” proposal for animals & factory farms.

    1) Kill humanely (happening more & more)

    2)Tell them (the animals) what’s going on even though they don’t have a choice in the matter but now at least know what’s going on, to do so as compassionately as possible. (requires a belief in being able to communicate with animals.)

    3)Give them a choice & abide by their choice.
    (This is more advanced & we are not there yet at this stage, but this is where we evolve enough to allow animal choice over profit.) This is what happened with the Native Indians where animals allowed themselves to die or be killed as a result of the Indians love of the animals sacred spirit & giving great thanks for giving up their lives.

    At some point there may be a globalconversations.com talk on this issue Mewabe & we can continue it then. I respect your beliefs & honor them. We are more in agreement than non agreement.

    Magically,
    -Marko

  • mewabe

    “Some animals allow pain in medical experiments & have soul groups that do this even at great peril & their own suffering.”

    “No one argues here about the brutality of animals & the desire to stop it. That’s obvious stuff to any compassionate person.”

    Jane Robert first proposed the idea of the “soul groups” of animals. Others have jumped on this idea and its implications.

    I never wrote that I wanted to stop the occasional brutality of animals…they do their own things according to their own nature, and are also capable of great displays of affection and loyalty among each other.

    I definitively stated that a compassionate person would in no way rationalize laboratory experiments. Not in scientific terms, not in AC terms.

    For me to state that laboratory experiments are unacceptable according to my own standards is not having a “blind spot”, but you are free to believe and to state so, accepting your own judgment.

    I am also very familiar with the way Native Americans communicated with and related to animal nations, respected them, thanked them…but it is not necessarily the ultimate solution either.

    All humans rationalize their actions, particularly when killing or causing pain, whether in war or any other way, such as in all forms of exploitations, for example in the exploitation of animals. If they did not, life on this planet might be unbearable, at least in our present conditions, because of our limited beliefs (such as the primitive belief that we need animal protein).

  • Scott

    Hello again my friends

    From the level of Normal Human Awareness, which is where most people I have met operate from, the acts of killing, cruelty & fear based behavior are seen as horrific events that create much suffering, both physical & emotional.

    But we exist on many other levels than the one we perceive useing NHA. We are eternal beings & it is only the lack of awareness of this that suffering becomes so powerful.

    Knowing we are eternal & that nothing ever dies or leaves this life without contributing to the leaving process is a great comfort to me but I understand not all people are aware to the point where they can accept or appreciate this idea.

    Useing NHA as a persective from which to view reality is like looking at a grain of sand in an endless desert & saying “This grain of sand that I see is all there is”.

    I have found that becoming “Aware” of a larger reality allows me to express more Love than ever before & I seem to create less pain & suffering for others as well as myself.

    A by product of a larger view of reality it would seem to me fosters greater compassion & less of the things we don’t wish to observe in this life. Such as killing & cruelty.

    The more “Aware” we become the more we see Love as the answer. The more “Aware” we are of our connection to the land, the people, the animals & everthing else, compassion becomes our natural response.

    The “problem” is not that some people want to eat meat or that they think it is OK to act in a barbaric way to get what they want. The “problem” is that they are operating from the limited persective of Normal Human Awareness & when that changes we will see the kind of world that we can all admire.

    Love always & in all ways

    Scott

  • Scott

    Oh & by the way,

    I compeletly agree with you Mewabe, the only real authority comes from within the heart, the conduit to divinity.

    As the CwG material often says “To get in touch with your Soul, you have to be out of your mind!”

    Namaste my friend

  • mewabe

    I understand what you call greater awareness Scott…I call it being fully conscious, as opposed to being unconscious or semi-conscious, which is the level from which some people operate, which is okay, as we will all get to our spiritual destination sooner or later, and as no one stands above another no matter where s/he is on his or her path…keeping in mind that we will always all be different, unique, no matter how enlightened.

    Thank God, nothing would be worse than spiritual clones, and the divine saw to it that we will never be!

    But becoming “aware” of a greater reality is not enough if one wishes to end unnecessary pain or killing, for example. One has to “walk his talk”, otherwise, as Neale mentions in another post, he or she will be all noise and no substance.

    No one can or should force the world to go in one direction or another…but we must all act according to our own conscience. Compassion is love in action, and does demand action, ideally not to oppose, but to affirm.

    Yet temporary opposition is at times necessary to end something that is undesirable. For example, some people opposed the military using live animals for the training of its medics, and a law was passed to end this unnecessary practice, which was understood to be cruel. That is love in action, compassion.

    I would not dismiss such compassion as coming from “normal human awareness”, I would describe it as coming from our higher conscience.

    Even if we understand that nothing dies or leaves without contribution, and even if we think/believe that animals understand this even better than we do…these understandings do not give us license to inflict pain on helpless animals, or to stand by and do nothing, which is the same as condoning such practices.

    Such action as ending the military training on live animals may or may not change the world, it may seem very pedestrian and insignificant, it may appear limited as opposed to enouncing spiritual profundities from the mountain top as we all like to do from time to time, but every step in the right direction matters, and affects those who take it, and those who witness it.

    Love finds its voices in the smallest of actions…it takes a lot of words and complex concepts to deny love, compassion, to rationalize cruelty. It only takes tiny, every day simple actions to affirm them. I would not dismiss them as coming from a lack of understanding or greater awareness.

    For me to attempt to end abuse wherever I see it does not come from a tragic worldview…I do not believe in the power of fear, cruelty or hate. I know there is no death. I see the “greater perspective”…but it does not stop me from becoming involved in the “normal” sphere of awareness.

    I, for example, would not walk by a wounded, bleeding child and let her bleed to death, rationalizing that she won’t die anyway as I know the soul is eternal, and that she will be “happier with God”, or happier out of this world with all its trials and tribulations. I would try to save her. This may be what you call “normal human awareness”.

    Even though I do not live within the human tragedy, I do not get involved with the “illusion”, I act in ways that are in accordance with my own humanity, with love and compassion, and with my own spiritual knowing.

    Why would I act differently towards animals? Or towards the entire natural world, towards all life? Why would I remain silent witnessing the unnecessary destruction of an old-growth forest for example, or the desecration and trashing of the entire earth for profit and power? Why would the literal killing of the oceans leave me indifferent?

    Again, my worldview is not tragic…I know that humanity will get where it needs to go, one way or the other, on this earth or elsewhere. But my love for life, for All Life, for this divine creation, will not allow me to stand by and watch humanity destroy itself and all that stands in its path.

    You may suspect that it is a similar kind of love that drives Neale to, in a very different way, go on spreading his messages. Without such love and compassion, he could retire and listen to music all day, and have no concern for anyone but himself and those he love who are his entourage.

    He could rationalize that all is perfect as it is, and that he needs not intervene in any way whatsoever, because there is no death, suffering is an illusion, and even what seems to be tragedy or destruction has its place in the greater scheme of things.

    That choice in my opinion would not be the higher spiritual choice. It may also come from a “greater awareness” , but it would be a wasted awareness, wasted because bearing no fruits but for himself and those around him. And these fruits would be bitter, for we only receive as much as we give.

  • mewabe

    Thanks Scott, I have been out of my mind for quite a while now ha ha…

  • Scott

    Thought you might like that one!

    I’m not suggesting that we should stand by & do nothing & wait for the next reality. My point is the more awareness we have now of the greater reality that we are all a part of will sponser a greater level of Love & Compassion everywhere.

    Normal human awareness is neither good or bad it is simply a persective that limits our view of the world & how we can operate within it. We all act from our own point of view & most people are trying to “Do the right thing”. As “Awareness” grows “Walking the walk” becomes automatic, it’s not possible to genuinely adopt a new persective & return to previous behavior. Sometimes it’s 2 steps forward & 1 back but the benifits of evolving are ongoing & cannot be avoided as the process develops.

    In short: The more “Aware” we are the less destructive our behaviors become.

    You are a wonderful example of this & I know that your own development is having an impact that goes beyond what you can see aroud you.

    Keep up the good work. The world needs all the help it can get!

    Namaste Scott

  • Scott

    To expand on my previous comment,

    Because we are all connected in a Divine Matrix of existance, everything you think, say & do has an effect on the whole. Even if we can’t see the effect it is still taking place. That is why it is important to BE Love & express that Love in the form of compassion for all that is. Including the “ones” we see as “evil” or not worth our Love. Probably especially those that we would like to label as unworthy, need our Love the most.

    I’m not sure there are “Higher spiritual choices”. I think there are just choices & the consequences of those choices & then the opportunity create change if we don’t wish to repeat the previous result. And the process of life continues.

    We are literally creating the universe with every thought, every action we take & it inspires me to come here to witness & interact with enlightened Souls like you & all the others who come here. It gives me great hope for the future of humankind & I thank all of you for being here.

    What a great place to hang out!

    Namaste Scott

  • mewabe

    Thank you Scott…

    We can, again, only really hurt ourselves…slow our own development. The outer human world we have all created over time is a perfect reflection of our inner world, of our state of consciousness.

    This human world is currently an illusion because our state of consciousness has long been a delusion…we have, most or all of humanity, been as under a trance, self-hypnotised by our erroneous beliefs.

    But many are awakening here and elsewhere…thank you Scott and Marko and many others for being awakened and spreading good thoughts.

  • mewabe

    Thanks again Scott…I see no one and nothing as “evil”…or even as bad or unworthy.

    Some-perhaps many-people are temporary asleep, mostly because of their own unconscious and unresolved pain, which deadens them, and causes them various degrees of insensitivity to life.

    I would, ultimately and in spiritual terms, have more concern for the abuser than for the abused, more concern for the person who exercises cruelty towards an animal for example than for the animal.

    The victim, if emotionally healthy, can recover. If dead, the victim will move on, presumably. The abuser, being so damaged as to be experiencing a compulsion to inflict abuse, is more stuck, and needs more help.

    As far as higher spiritual choices, we can use other words that do not imply judgment, but the end result is the same…listening to our inner voice, to our soul, acting upon our inner knowing.

    Ultimately, we all know…we all have that inner voice, that inner knowing. We are all connected this way, to some source of knowledge (we can call it God, Life, the Source). Some just do not listen…they resist and reject the truth of their own soul, doing instead what society, culture and the world dictate they should do…and in doing so, they seek strength in numbers…they seek outer validation, they prefer mass delusions, which are merely temporary and futile attempts to run away from this inner truth.

    There is no escape from the truth of the soul…there is no escape from love, or from the divine…only temporary illusions of denial, which cause suffering and appear to validate the madness of our world, our fears, our wars, our perfect human dramas.

  • Kristen

    I havn’t time to read most of these posts – deck to rebuilt but…

    Mewabe – I’m an Israelite, definately not Christian, but I cannot fathom How they come up with their concepts of God/Creator as an all loving God. He Himself acknowledges He is a jealous God, and ordered animal sacrifices, but I have to assume He is a huge animal lover since He said you must look after any lame horse etc even if it is your enemies etc. But the stonings????????? Sheer sadism. I have a great relationship with Him, because both I and He have worked at it, and I have had to earn His respect and love, and worked my butt off (as you clearly have) to get myself to a position I want to be in with Him, above illiterate sheeples (Christians). But of more relevance, I do not believe Creator and the Biblical God are the same identity. Older bibles identity Creator, then introduce God later. Like any other God in the history of this planet, He has just had more staying power than the rest. Through language and teaching literacy. My intuitive understanding is that Creator is the creator of all physical, and The Source of all ‘invisible’.

    I don’t necessarily support the concept of existance at all, and although a meat eater, if I was Creator, I would not have animals and people on the same realm unless it is one of good/positive/love interactions only with no suffering at all.

    We don’t have owls here, so I have never seen one, but it is such a blessing and compliment when wild animals/birds befriend us. They are so much more intuitive and instinctive than we are,

  • thomas martin

    workingin the care field i have seen many people die and the way i always felt was that thay had learned their lesson here and it was time to soul journery home back to the god light where they had come from many say thay are not afriad of death but that in its self is fear based

  • Inger Lise

    Kristen? The matter about good and evil have interrested me lately. I have learned ONE thing(mewabe have mentioned it once as well)of we will have to do our own discernments. It is always a matter of “the experiences” to us.

    I have two very interresting books by Emanuel Swedenborg. As you`ll know of him lived in the 17th century, borned in Sweden. Back then EVERYTHING, more or less, was based upon religion.
    And Swedenborg expressing himself “more or less” in the biblical terms, but that is the way of the peoples expressing themselves back then.
    Above all Swedenborg was a Scientist of proffession, he did a lot of good things, FAR ABOVE the main-stream “media” in those days.

    He was the man of SCIENCE, and he reformed the mining industry, the new technologies and mechanics in the minings, as well as the betterment for the ordinary peoples. He was in the opposition of the mainstream of the days.

    The titles of the two books:”Conversations with Angels,” what Swedenborg heard in Heaven,” and a sitate by Swedenborg on the frontcover: People are born to become Angels.”

    And the other book is titled: Debates with Devils, what Swedenborg Heard in Hell. And on the frontcover another sitate by Swedenborg.”The malice of evil spirits cannot harm those protected by the Lord.”
    I`m trying of to put myself “back unto the time” when of they lived. How they have thought and lived, because of they lived “in another world,” within totally other circumstances than ours nowadays.

    Scott? The Community of Findhorn in Scotland will be well-known in Norway, I have several friends who have been there.
    And Eileen Caddy,the founder of Findhorn, have had “communications”(channelling is it also called)all the way with God.
    Which she calls “the still small voice from within”, from a source she calls the God within.
    I`m sure of Scott knowing it of course, as of him mentioned Findhorn in the first place.
    btw:Please, do you live in England?

  • Scott

    Hi Inger

    I’m in Brisbane, Australia & I don’t know anything about “Findhorn”.

    Kristen, many things have been printed in books that are proclaimed to be “Gods Words”, not all of them are true.

    I do not believe that God is jealous or vengeful or punishing. My beliefs about God come from within, not from books that were concieved by other people.

    So I am curious, why can’t you believe in a God that is all loving? Is this something you simply know, or is a particular book your reference? And if it is because of a particular book, why that book?

    Mewabe, You are right, everthing we need to know is already within.
    all we have to do is listen, tune in to the Divine Matrix that connects all things & we will remember who we really are.

    Namaste Scott

  • Inger Lise

    Thank you Scott. I have heard the americans of to call the Australians as “Aussies” and the land “down under”….whatever that is meant to be(smiles)?

    As I am “seeing it”…..of Heaven and Earth will be the very same. The one mirrors the other.
    Edgar Cayce said; “there is a very close relationship between the sleep state and the death state……sleep is the shadow of, that intermission in earth`s experience of, that state we called death…”

    Supposingly therefore many expressing themselves “as dreamers.” The world a dream within a dream.
    Hmm, well, me too.

  • Sharon

    I have been blessed to see many people die. That sounds awful but death is often a beautiful miracle being played out. I work in a nursing home and have sat with many people as they were dying. I have also sat with both parents and a brother. I have seen many miraculous events play out. Until I started this line of work and witnessed miracles first hand I was agnostic. Many people have described the beautiful scenes and visions of loved ones they are witness to. I have seen people with Dementia become lucid, peaceful and able to communicate verbally (a skill long before lost). Each time as the soul leaves the body I have felt the presence of a love so pure I do not have adequate words to express it. It is an honor to be a part of the transition process.

  • Laura Pringle

    Wow, Sharon, thanks for sharing such a wonderful, comforting message that I consider quite valuable. After reading your piece, I remembered the original focus of this article. 🙂 This is quite possibly my favorite response thus far, in that it’s succinct, simple, yet it says so much. I hope you will write more detailed descriptions of what you’ve experienced in a memoir or something. I would read it.:)

  • Jason Montgomery

    I saw a car crash in which I’m pretty sure somone must have died. Being witness to it made me appreciate being alive a little more passionately. However, I want to share a story about a similarevent, about my best friend. We will call him Hank since that’s what he enjoyed being called. He was a 6’6″ tall Irish American, a creative genius full of piss and vinegar for most of his life. When he was about 23 years old, he was diagnosed with cancer. I have strong intuition, so it didn’t suprise me much since as I just said, he was full of piss and vinegar. Anyway, he was also charismatic and a wonderful soul so his disease affected a whole community. He fought the cancer for about two years, making great strides in his maturity- the pinnacle of which was an internment working an old folks home where he changed their soiled diapers among other humbling tasks. On one particular Sunday, after not having seen him for a few weeks, he had a habit of disappearing when he wanted to party and pretend he was the old Hank you see, I was having a Fantasy Football barbeque and he showed up. He was waif thin and lacked much energy, but he honored his friends by agreeing to join our league and he wasn’t about to miss draft day.

    Towards the end of the night, when most of our friends had started to leave, he told me about his most recent trip to the doctors. Apparently, a previous bone marrow transplant had not worked his magic and the doctor wanted him to find another donor. As Hank explained, the process is excruciating for both donor and himself and even if he foundna matching candidate, he was only given a twenty-fice percent chance for it to have any affect. Something about the way he was watching told me he wanted the pain to stop, but he wanted permission to die.

    He’d been my best friend since third grade, so although I knew I would miss him until my own death, I told him what he needed to hear: “Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.” It was simultaneously one of the hardest and most fulfilling things I’ve ever had to say. My brain sometimes tells me I shouldn’t have given my permission for him to die, but what kind of friend would do such a selfish thing?

    At his funeral, the priest had the audacity to comment about his life in quite the judmental way. The readings and the sermon focused on his son, born out of wedlock, and his wiod ways. After the priest was done leveraging Hanks death to make the congregation feel shameful, they let two prechosen friends speak. Though the speakers were mutual friends and did their best, they didnt say much besides missing and loving their dear friend. I walked up ro the pulpit by the altar uninvited. I said, ” I didn’t come here today to say goodbye to Hank. I came to say thank you. Thank you for all you taught us and continue to teach us from your example. I’ll see you on the other side.”

    While many present were praying and hoping he would make it to heaven, I wanted to remind everyone why they missed him in the first place.

    So, while I didn’t see him die, I gave him permission to comtinue his journey two days before he passed, and it may be one of the most important gifts I ever gave anyone.

  • Jill Kuhn

    My Father died on New Years Day 2002. It was one of the most profound moments of my life.

    My Father was the most wonderful, kind, loving and spiritual man I have ever known. All that I have learned about spirituality, love, and kindness came from this wonderful kind loving soul who touched so many others.

    My Dad had been diagnosed with stage four lung cancer 11 months earlier at the age of 63. Sadly and painfully it had spread to his bones and we knew that his chances of survival were not good. However we proceeded with the typical cancer treatments of radiation and chemotherapy, all that did was debilitate my Dad to a shell of his former self.

    As the holidays approached we knew his time was limited, my Dad must have made a personal decision to stay alive though the holidays for us (his family). As his condition worsened he kept asking us “is it New Years Day yet?” We would answer truthfully and say no Dad it’s not New Year’s Day yet. Now my father was a very spiritual man, however he seemed very afraid to let go. I’m can only imagine what a scary thing it is for the human brain to conceptualize where you are going once you let go of this life. We tried to reassure him it was okay to let go, however he still struggled and at some points he was actually fighting it. This was very difficult to watch.

    Our close-knit family was all there with him, my brother and 2 sisters and our Mother. My Mother is a nurse who also studies alternative medicine. My Mom and the hospice nurses had given him several drugs to try to get him to settle down but to no avail, he was extremely agitated. We all knew this was his time but he just couldn’t let go. During this agitated state he kept asking us who the “2 guys” in the room were. Being from a spiritual family and having read many books about near death experiences we assumed they were angels here to help him with the transition, we told him that they were here for him and that he should go with them. This still did not settle him.

    Finally my Mom decided to give him a homeopathic remedy Aconite. The Aconite worked quickly and he was finally able to settle him down. His fear was still palpable, so my Mother (his soul mate) sat down next to him on the hospital bed that was in our family room, she knew she had to help him transition, that he was not able to make this journey alone. I sat on the foot of the bed and my siblings were close by as well. He reached out and put his hand inside of my Mother’s shirt, so that he could feel her skin, he was touching her heart. She quietly reassured him that it was okay to let go, that his beloved parents would be waiting to greet him, that there was nothing to fear. She thanked him for having been such a wonderful husband, father. She told him not to worry about us that he had given us so many powerful lessons and that we would make him proud. She spoke of their love and commitment to each other and how they had planned to take this journey together, but that it was his time to go first. She then recited the 23rd Psalm to him.

    During this time as I sat on the edge of the bed, I was there in the moment but I was also experiencing a very realistic daydream simultaneously. It seems odd but I was completely present at the edge of the bed and heard every word my Mother spoke to my Dad and yet I was also completely present in the daydream as well. In my daydream I was a young child of about 10 or 12. My parents were much younger as well in their mid thirties and were totally healthy and vibrant. It was a beautiful spring day and my parents were standing on the back porch of our home watching me and my siblings play in a rock garden that my Father had built. I could see them standing together side by side watching us, both of them had beautiful serene smiles on their faces, I could actually fell their love for one another and their love for us. I was also able to literally feel the beautiful warm spring breeze touching my face and I could feel the breeze touching their faces as well. It was so beautiful and profound…and so very real! That part of the daydream ended there and then it continued to another area. The time was now present my Father was his current age, but very healthy. He had on his favorite pajamas, and no shoes. He was walking in our backyard away from the house but towards what had once been his beloved vegetable garden. At that point I watched him turn around and look towards the house, he had a beautiful smile on his face, he put his hand on his hip and looked back at our home and family with such love and serenity, I knew all was well! I will have this vivid beautiful memory of my Father etched in my mind forever, and then the dream was over.

    My Father’s breathing slowed at this point, we watched and waited wondering if each breath would be his last. When the last breath did come our family felt both relieved and heartbroken. We had just lost the most amazing man he was truly our family’s rock. It was New Years Day he had accomplished his task of making it though the holidays always putting others needs before his own.

    We all still miss him tremendously, however his beautiful Spirit lives on in all of us. Thank you for allowing me to share my story!

  • Sharon

    Thank you Laura. I have thought of writing these expreiences.

  • Laura Pringle

    Jill, that is such a touching story. Thanks so much for gifting us with it. <3

    You didn't theorize that what you experienced were his last moments' visions, you left that part up to us. By verbalizing this experience so amazingly, you've memorialized it, giving it so much more meaning. Now, by your sharing it, this cherished memory has reached the consciousness of so many more people, and the love and sweetness is magnified. 🙂

    This site is awesome! :))))))) <3 ((((hugs))))

  • Jim Clark

    Yes twice & both times I felt the rising of the sole above there body. The first time I actually looked for it. I never saw it but I felt it. The second time I just looked up & said — SEE U ON THE OTHER SIDE — Two days latter I was walking the dog outside & looked up & saw where 2 jets had crossed & left a perfect, hugh cross high in the sky with their vapor trail. I still have the picture on my phone & in face bk if you would like to see it, it’s awsome !!!