A voice in the wilderness
STEPS 2 & 3 IN HAVING YOUR OWN
CONVERSATION WITH GOD

As I said in the first entry in this series of articles, I have been asked many times how people can have a conversation with God of their own, and so I have looked at my own experience carefully, and I have come up with a sort of informal Seven Step Process to help people do this.

I have already explained that the first step is to admit to the possibility that such a thing can take place, that people can actually have conversations with God; to simply accept at last that these things are not only possible, but that they are occurring right now, and have always occurred, in the experience of humanity.

In order to hold this as a possibility, one would have to hold as a possibility the existence of a God at all. So I call Step One: Possibility.

Moving now to the second step…we are invited to include ourselves in the circle of those beings we consider worthy of having such experiences.

For instance, we already know that people have had conversations with God. Moses said he did, and many believe him, Mohammed said did, and many believe him, the Buddha said he did, and many believe him, Joseph Smith said he did, and many believe him. These beings and others had some kind of personal revelation that made them feel touched by the hand of God.

Jesus said he talked to God and went so far as to say that he and his Father were One. Many believe him. Krishna, likewise, was said to be God made Man. This is the ultimate in “talking to God.” This is when the “talker” and the “talkee” become One. This is when the one conversing and the one being conversed with are One And The Same.

So we already acknowledge that some people have had these kinds of experiences. Then why couldn’t we?

Well, because often we think that those others who have been mentioned are somehow better then we are. They’re more holy or they’re more wise or they’re more pure or they’re something that we are not. Yet the fact is that they are nothing we are not. So the second step of the process leading to our own conversation with God is to acknowledge our own worthiness—that I am just as worthy to be spoken to by God as anyone else.

So I call Step Two: Worthiness.

The third step in the process is to move to a place of willingness to receive such communications—and that must manifest itself in behaviors that demonstrate willingness.

For instance, I set aside a few minutes each day for quiet contemplation. I don’t keep running my life as if I don’t have time to do that. I demonstrate a willingness to receive such communications from God by preserving and arranging for sufficient time for that to occur, and by creating environmental conditions that allow it to occur.

In my own case, I arise in the morning and I try very hard to spend some quiet time thinking and writing before I do anything else. Some mornings I get up early as 4:30 and some mornings it might be closer to 5:30 or 6:30, but it’s almost always before or as the sun comes up. And I set aside that time for myself, to be quiet. Maybe I do some writing, perhaps I do some reading, or I might do some in-place meditating.

(One doesn’t have to go to a special room or a particular location and sit down and light a candle or put on some special music to meditate. That’s a nice thing to do, but that’s not required. One can meditate anywhere. Right where you are when you decide to meditate, you can do that. Lying in bed just after you awaken. Standing in the kitchen while the coffee is brewing. Sitting in your favorite armchair.

And meditation does not have to take a certain amount of time or look a certain way. It can take just a quick few moments, and look like gentle observation, or thinking—but thinking from the level of Soul, not the level of Mind. This is really not thinking at all, but quiet contemplation…just being “still” in your mind.

It is written: “Be still, and know that I am God.”

Whatever it looks like to you, work ten minutes of this into your daily routine and you’ll be surprised at how easy it is to “find time to meditate.”

With me, it’s not the same every day. But I do give myself time every morning to be alone with my soul, and most people do not do that. If I miss that time in the morning…if life just will not allow that on a certain day, then I make sure that I find some time during that day to just STOP—just stop for a moment—and give myself even just ten seconds of peace.

This is what I call “Stopping Meditation.”

It’s when you just stop everything you are doing, just for 10-Blessed-Seconds, and do nothing. Say nothing, Think nothing. Just BE.

This “stopping” can occur, you can make this happen, at any time. While walking down the street. While doing the dishes. While standing in the shower.

What I described just now is unusual, I’m sad to say. Most people live their whole lives, and maybe they give their Mind a rest once or twice a month. They get inspired, read a book—“I’ll try it”—but after three days the rest period is over and they get back to “regular life.”

Yet if this becomes a regular part of “regular life,” if you set aside a time to commune with your soul every day, after a very few days you’ll find that you’re having the “conversations with God” that you’ve asked about. For God talks in the spaces between our thoughts, not during our thoughts.

Or better yet, I should say that God talks all the time, but we can hear God better in the spaces between our thoughts. And between our actions, Yes?

So I call Step Three: Willingness.

Just be willing to hear God—and demonstrate that by giving yourself some holy moments each day to just listen.

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  • Jethro

    Worthiness…. Not only are we worthy of such a conversation, it’s impossible to stop these conversations. We need not feel worthy to have the conversation, we need to feel worthy to realize it’s happening. If you don’t believe your having a conversation with God, you have given God a different name to suit your own beliefs. If you have given the voice another name, your having a conversation with…..

    Willingness… The conversation never stops. It’s always there, you must be willing to stop and listen and this may at times require you meditate, or tune out the world, or just stop and listen for a second. To form a decision of any kind is usually a casual conversation with God. I have heard it said that people forgot to talk to God about something, not true, they just didn’t “listen” to God, they listened to personal desire.

    Creating confusion about this seems to be the goal, maybe to keep people in charge and important. Maybe to defend something. It doesn’t really matter what title we give it, the conversation is the conversation and we can call it whatever we wish, but it will never go away. Call it what you wish but the only important thing is why your having the conversation to begin with. Your giving yourself the ability to give the greatest grandest expression of who you really are.

    “Simply accept at last that “a conversation with God” is not only possible, but that “conversations with God” are occurring right now, and have always occurred, in the experience of humanity.”

  • Spiritual_Annie

    Step 1 was, for me, easy.

    It looked to me like Step 2 was going to be fairly easy, too… Until I started to reply. And I kept tripping over one word: worthy.

    I’ve lived my life in such a way that it felt like there was a constant feedback loop of how unworthy I am. And I think a lot of us are. I’m not talking about being unworthy of having a conversation with God. That wasn’t even on the list. I’m talking about being unworthy of being noticed. Of being loved. Of being taught. Of making an A instead of a B. Of going to college. Of getting a job. Of getting a pay raise or a promotion. Of moving to a better neighborhood. Of getting a nicer vehicle. Of… Well, of living life to its fullest.

    I’ll leave out the ways in which my own particular family made me feel unworthy. I’ll even leave out the religious attitudes about being unworthy. What I think is a common struggle for all of us is all the way in which our societies tell us we’re unworthy. Even our friends and closest, most intimate relationships can give us a message that we’re unworthy.

    It happens all the time, even though it’s not always said out loud. A friend breaks a trust, giving us the message that we’re not worth their loyalty. A loving partner relationship ends badly (do they ever really end well?), and we get the message that we’re unworthy of love. I worked in a field that had been dominated by men, and I was told to go back to “my kitchen” quite regularly (and more rudely than that).

    Some of us get it a bit more than others. Women are generally seen as less worthy than men, whites are generally seen as more worthy than nonwhites (at least here in the USA), heterosexuals are generally seen as more worthy than anyone in the LGBTQ communities, someone with a job is seen as more worthy as someone unemployed or disabled (regardless of the circumstances)… It’s a pretty long list. It’s amazing to me that, by the time any of us reach the age of 25 we feel we’re worthy of ANYthing, much less a conversation with God.

    Fortunately, I’ve had conversations with God all my life, so my feeling of unworthiness didn’t really bleed over into that area of my life. But when I started to write that as my reply, it just didn’t sit well with me because of all of the other ways I’ve accepted someone else’s definition of whether or not I’m worthy. I don’t do that anymore. Well, I do when I’m depressed, but that just doesn’t happen nearly as much as it used to.

    So, that’s my long answer to Step 2 about being worthy to have a conversation with God.

    Step 3, Willingness, is much easier for me. Habits aren’t as hard to develop as we make them out to be, if we believe the outcome is to our benefit. I remember the Senior Pastor at a church I used to attend saying it takes six weeks for something to feel “normal” (which is why he changed the order of service every month–we were a mixed bag, so he didn’t want the service to become “too Catholic” or “too Evangelical” or “too” whatever). If I know it’s to my benefit, I can generally hang onto a new behavior for six weeks until it feels more normal to me.

    For those who are willing, but who have a difficult time with new habits, there are all kinds of helpful apps out there. Some include guided meditations, others are gentle alarms reminding that it’s time to take a break.

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • Jethro

      There is only one person in the universe who can deem us unworthy. it’s our “selfs”. Unworthy is an illusion. Don’t pay attention to it. Nobody is unworthy!

      Don’t trip this up by calling yourself Nobody. That’s incorrect too.

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Awww… You caught it before I could (sarcastically) even reply. As soon as I read, “Nobody is unworthy!” my warped sense of humor already went there in my head.

        Guess that was my itty bitty conversation with God this morning. Me talking to myself expressing as God, and God expressing as Jethro replying, before I could even type a sentence.

        Man, you’re good! (That’s for the both of y’all.)

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Jethro

          Consider yourself scolded… “WE” ARE GOOD!! Include yourself in that and whoever else should post here, or take a breath… or receive nourishment from the sun and soil… or, or, or exist. We’re all great actually!

          I got so excited I peed a little…

        • Kristen

          Haha.
          Completely off topic for a change.
          Scary day here, the start of learning to hold my breath for two months. My 24yr old daughter has just got on a plane to travel across the world with a friend, a week in London then a long Contiki tour through Europe…just as crazies strike London!
          Aaaaaggggghhhhh!!!!
          Xx

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Kirsten,

            Everything I’ve thought of saying sounds trite and I just can’t joke about it, so I’ll just say you and they are being immersed in love sent by me and I’m sure many others, and I’m honored you shared your fear here.

            Breathe!

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Kristen

            Thanks Annie.
            Its so sad that the world is too scary to travel now. Kiwis (New Zealanders) and Israelis are huge on doing an OE, travelling the world before they settle down, almost like a ritual.
            Fingers and toes crossed, and Ill listen to the song Breathe!
            Take care,
            Xx

          • babybleustardust

            hey kiwi,

            don’t worry. She’ll be fine. Of course, moms never stop worrying but trust in God and all is well.

            Love,
            M

          • Kristen

            Thanks Michelle. Faith and trust wont work with this one, I dont know Gods plans for her, but do know if anyone so much as touches her shoulder, WW3 will start!
            The Moms army of the world….the toughest of all!
            Take care,
            K
            Xx

          • babybleustardust

            Amen on that one. I am one big Army when it comes to my kid 😉 Moms unite. WWIIIIIIIIIIII and then some :)

            You, too :)
            M

          • Kristen

            Amen, Halleujah and even a few Hail Marys to that.
            Xx

          • babybleustardust

            Hallelujah is a glory kind of thing :) and Hail Mary to Mother Mary everywhere there is a Mother Mary and she is everywhere <3

  • babybleustardust

    God speaks to everyone, but not everyone knows this fundamental part of our nature. It is our nature. It is part of who we are. We came this way. We just didn’t know it. Looking back, God spoke to me long before I knew we could speak in dialogue as in letters moving my hand across a page. There were signs. As a little girl, I saw an orange ball of light, and I would watch it. It happened when I would close my eyes. It had a circle of orange umber glow in the middle. Now, I think it is probably how God and I communed, but then there were other signs too magical but nonetheless real to me. Santa Claus exists in lightstreams of quarks moving for a little girl looking out a window pane. Did I believe? Yes, I did. It is real, Virginia. God is real and alive and at every breakfast table created as love, no matter what you believe. God is movement as us. Do we create as love? Do we create as one? Do we create in unison a divine mix focusing on true marriages of true minds of oneness? We can speak as many or one. As we move through this time and this space, we create movement through digit, bit, mind space, Mind space and beyond. God is Unseen and Seen, so as we lift others to a greater awareness of who they really are God is smiling. Happy Afternoon to All <3

  • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

    “Listening to God means listening to ourselves.” NDW “What God Said” book.

    Further on page 326 “Call everything a conversation with God, and see what God is saying to you.”

    “Choose to have a specific conversation with God, and then watch for it. Observe closely what and where life is sending you.”

    I invite my soul to talk to me & guide me in any number of issues. I’ve yet to get any straight forward answers, but I’m in the practice of asking & listening without requiring instant feed back, but allow any forms that come to me to be part of all of the answer. I do prefer to have a part of my inner self or my soul commune with me in dialogue form and that may or may not happen. In the mean time it’s the practice and invitation that I’m focusing on.

    Interesting while asking my ancestors for guidance on my coloring book promotion in recent weeks, I got an answer unexpectedly from a psychic tarot reader friend. There was no prompting, she just said “Oh by the way your mother is hanging around” & so I asked and got a message that way.

    I have the meditation down, my life is a form of meditation, I have the positive self talk down at least 85 % or more. I take time just to “be” and I practice states of being that I choose & call forth.

    So it’s a matter of not just listening, but paying attention.

    • babybleustardust

      Hi Marko,

      That is amazing. I think we open in increments, preferably gradually, because it can be frightening if it is so fast that we can’t comprehend parapsychology or paranormal or whatever it is called but psychic phenomena is how I began to open to a dialogue format. That is for sure. My family had always been psychic per se on my grandma’s side. It was called the “third eye” and the “thirty third” generation by everybody. My grandma, who meditated before it was cool, would go in a state, half dream, half awake, and once she screamed because her son was about to hit a tree as he was driving in a nearby town. It was late in the middle of the night, and he a teenager, and he was asleep at the wheel in real time and heard her voice, “Miiiiiiike, wake up!!” He swerved just in time. That is weird, but there are more stories. She once told my grandpa not to ride a plane home. It was small plane with just two driving and she told my grandpa “do not get on that plane.” My grandpa listened, but the other went on and the plane crashed. All on board died. So, when I began to open, I was at a yard sale and the lady walked up to me and began “reading me.” At the time, I was looking at antique jewelry and was a little not wanting to be read, but the lady said, “Spirit comes around you as a bird.” I freaked a little but she continued reading me and telling me about loved ones and at any rate, that night in the hotel, I had strange dreams and I think as we open, we become energized to a certain frequency and some drive at it, the love energy. I couldn’t sleep because of the howling like figures I was dreaming, so I stayed up. Why am I telling you? I think raising our frequency to a level where only love reaches is the way. The dream stopped but the wierdness began all in that weekend of the yardsale. Wow I was interested in paranormal and began reading my grandma’s encyclopedia brittanica. Oh my god. What a great set. Anyway, it’s late and here I am drinking coffee reading about ectoplasm and anything I could, psychic or whathave you. Suddenly, I had pen in hand as I was reading to take notes. Suddenly, my hand moved, the one with the pen in it and wrote the date coming up in that week. I was like “I did not write that. I wasn’t thinking of that. What the hell?” The date proved prolific in that I had a wreck that day on the day I was scheduled to drive a thousand miles towards home. The wreck is where it got even wierder. Oh my god. A car. It wasn’t a car. It was a big tank jeep/something from another land kind of car with no windows. It was dark. At any rate, the light turned green. I was exhausted. New baby and all and suddenly his tank/car/plane stopped with the light green. I was already moving in my car and banged into him. I was petrified but pulled over. He got out. The car was totalled. My son was in the backseat with no thing wrong. He slept through it. It was a gentle car crash but managed to total the front end. The man got out and wow what a gorgeous hunk. He looked like the lead flutist of Wuaukiquna and that is a true statement. I was like wow :) married but not dead. :) He said, gently as Godhimself and he said, “Is the baby okay?” I said yes. Of course, he was in my hands and he smiled and I smiled and suddenly a sparrow flew from the sky and landed on his shoulder. Spirit talking? yea. It was like the lady at the recent yardsale predicted so I am standing there with mouth wide open and he is looking at me like I’ll never forget it. It was a faraway look. The policeman came and I said, “Look at that bird on his shoulder.” The policeman said, “Damn. That’s like out of the movie Birds.” After the report was done, he looked at me, got in his car and the bird was on his shoulder and I am just standing with my mouth still open and he looked so faraway yet there, smiling back at me as he drove off. Wow okay. It was wierd and got even wierder with the birds. Once back at my grandma’s, a bird got into my bedroom from outside. It just kept happening. At my sister’s, I was debating on moving and went outside and hundreds of birds started swirling around me, literally swirling. It was a sign. We get signs before the big one when we are wow Anyhoo, I can’t believe I am typin this but your post reminded me of my own experience. So, tell me how you created the coloring book. I want to do it too. I looked on amazon. Is it listed there?

      Love,
      M

      • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

        WoW! what a story! Thanks for the share. I can’t promote myself on this site, as it’s Neale’s and he rightly doesn’t like people piggy backing on his own sites.

        But if you click on my love/infinity profile you can get more info.

        Magically, -M

        • babybleustardust

          Thank you! I’ll go there now 😉 I appreciate your share, too :))) Magically and wonderfully magical,

          M

          • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

            I don’t think it’s appropriate for me to go into any of the site or book here, but you can go there & contact me where we can privately talk.

          • babybleustardust

            oh I forgot. I’ll do that. Love to you :)

        • babybleustardust

          Very cool design. I have not seen any coloring book like it. None have that thomas bentonn /salvidore dali look 😉 Marko color my world :) your website is pretty cool. I love the picture. Is that a rust colored heart rock in the middle? It looks like one. I collect them.

          Love you,
          M

  • Jean

    ‘Stopping Meditation’ is very hard in our modern society. In our information society, we get distracted very easily and feel bored if our mind doesn’t have a constant flow of new information. We can see it very clearly with the addiction to smartphones. More and more people can’t for a few minutes detach themselves from their smartphones. We must feel connected to the entire world all the time, but we are less and less connected to our environment and to the present moment.
    Meditation is of course very fashionable as the mainstream media talk often about its good sides, but very few people practice on a regular basis. As we live in consumer society and there are a lot of different practices available, people try all the time new practices and never follow seriously one path.

    • Jethro

      I meditated while leaning on an outdoor deep fryer stored in my garage the other day. If people have a hard time meditating, they’re trying too hard and expecting too much. If I were to get into the lotus position, an ambulance would eventually be called and I would be labeled a masochist.

      • Spiritual_Annie

        A true master. It’s meditating wherever we find ourselves, that’s the trick. For reasons shared prior, most of my meditation is now done laying down. But I have also meditated for moments when Biscuit’s engaged in finding the right spot to do his business (there’s a lot of pacing involved, so I lean on a tree), or stuck in line at the grocery, or staring at a blade of grass at the bus stop. No altar, incense or candle necessary. A practice of setting aside what’s become for me a Holy way to start the day is great, but meditating wherever is cool, too.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Jethro

          Annie, have I ever said your a sweetheart? You boost me up with every post! Never forget that every word that builds me up is applicable to yourself. No person is less or more. The more awesome I become, the more awesome we all become… isn’t that awesome!? Thank you. I was just thinking about the last time I laid down without sleeping… can’t remember. That could be a sad story.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            A sadder one might be trying to remember the last time one laid down and did more than get an hour or two… all night long. Sleep disorders suck.

            At the moment, I needed that truth, so thank you, wise one.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            I go through a lot of melatonin, staying asleep is not a problem, getting there can take.. an act of god. Just the way I’m wired I guess. When I was a problem drinker I lost my license and worked in a factory, every other shift was nights. My sleeping problems were less after that but still there.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I think mine comes from hypervigilence for my own safety, starting as just a babe until I got into therapy in my early 30’s. Didn’t find out about it until I was tested for sleep apnea in my 40’s. They had me back for a second sleep study because of some “irregularities,” this time hooked up to an EEG.

            I have what’s called Alpha Wave Intrusion, which just basically means whenever I hit that wonderful place of restorative sleep called REM, alpha waves (like when we’re awake and aware) pop in multiple times hourly. I wake so briefly that I most often don’t know it, but still spend my nights going up and down through the stages that it’s not all that restful. Then every couple of weeks or so, when I feel like I’m going to start walking into walls, I crash for 24-48 hours. All I do then is sleep, eat, hydrate, “hit the head,” and back to sleep.

            I don’t fall asleep well, either. My head just won’t be quiet. Yeah, melatonin, and diphenhydramine (the stuff that’s in Benadryl), and what meds I’m on weighted to make me drowsy at bedtime. No caffeine past noon, and no meals just before bed. And guided imagery, and relaxation techniques (at least my body rests). And a whole routine around bedtime. When all else fails, the movie “Pitch Perfect” almost always knocks me out. It’s not that I don’t like it, because I do. It’s that it was the only movie I had downloaded when we were homeless, so I turned it on every night so Christie and I wouldn’t have to hear the night’s noises and it gave our brains something to focus on.

            Sleep deprivation is no laughing matter. That’s why it’s common as a torture technique. But I do OK. I’m used to it. I used to be angry about it, but let that go. Why be tired and angry? Actually, I let most anger go. It was about others more than me, and when I came to a larger understanding about my life, I saw that clearly I was only harming myself with it’s energy. I can still go there to visit, but don’t stay long at all anymore.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            Sounds like my wife, she gets her best sleep in the last hour always saying she was awake all night. I tried to get her on a c-pap but she wouldn’t do it. She defiantly has sleep apnea. I wonder sometimes if she will take another breath.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            That’s scary. I had a mild case, until I dropped weight. Stopped my snoring, too. And her apnea mixed with your fears probably isn’t helping with your own sleep. Blessings for her, as well.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            Annie has all these mental health and brain issues, but we’re supposed to trust her subjective experiences? (Hey if Annie can talk about me while blocking me, I can play too). Being in “in between” sleep states is when thoughts can bypass System 2 thinking, the part that assigns reality checks, and these thoughts may get laid down and interpreted as being more real than reality. What Annie is doing here, from my perspective, is presenting information about why her subjective experiences are even more open to question, than other people who do not experience such abnormalities or mental health issues. I have no idea whether her “conditions” contributes to her subjective experiences, but her symptoms certainly seem like they could contribute. What happens during an NDE or OBE:

            “The brain, in conditions conducive to such phenomena occurring, is prey to chaos. Physiological and pharmacological mechanisms are completely disturbed, exacerbated or, conversely, diminished. Certain studies have put forward a physiological explanation for certain components of NDE, such as Out-of-Body Experiences, which could be explained by dysfunctions of the temporo-parietal lobe. In this context the study published in PLOS ONE suggests that these same mechanisms could also could also ‘create’ a perception – which would thus be processed by the individual as coming from the exterior – of reality. In a kind of way their brain is lying to them, like in a hallucination. These events being particularly surprising and especially important from an emotional and personal perspective, the conditions are ripe for the memory of this event being extremely detailed, precise and durable.” University of Liège. “Memories of near death experiences: More real than reality?.” ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 27 March 2013.

          • Kristen

            My favourite movies. Pitch Perfect. But hey, I love Snakes On A Plane and the Final Destination moves…no accounting for taste!! Even Sharknado was hilarious.
            Xx

          • Spiritual_Annie

            You’re either well-rounded, or weird. I vote for weird, as I don’t want to be the only off-beat one. I’m into the Underworld series, myself. And Marvel movies, too. Thor is a hunk and a half! Although I’ve always had a thing for Anthony Hopkins, who plays Odin Olfather.

          • Kristen

            Weirds good…which is actually well rounded….allowing ones self to express and experience the 100 main human traits…all mixed together makes weird.
            Anthony Hopkins scares me. I like anyone on the hot radar..tan, toned, good hair and teeth…personalities go out the window, the hot factor overrides everything. I like thoroughbreds, male bodies and faces are like any other mammal, plant or lifeform, if it looks good and is a thorougbred as it was intended to be then it meets the grade to me visually. And like any other animals as well, if it doesnt look good then Im not touching it. Incredibly superficial with anything, my standards are way above what they should be!
            Certainly makes dating difficult, I punch way above my weight and know it.
            Thor..yip.
            Xx

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I like that—I’m well-rounded weird! Although I also like eccentric.

            What, did you first see Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs? The first time I started watching that (at my sister’s insistence), I made it to the point where Hannibal Lecter suggested “tit-for-tat” when I found myself screaming, “NO! Don’t let him in your head! You’ll never get him out!” So my sister turned it off.

            I think he’s his most dashing in The Mask of Zorro, though my favorite Zorro movie is with George Hamilton in dual roles in Zorro, the Gay Blade. When Mama passed, I totally lost it at the funeral home the first night. So, the second night, my sister took me to the movies and that’s what we saw. Laughed our butts off. We both needed it.

            I’m sure you must think George Hamilton was a hunk. 😀

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

  • Bishop Hollywood

    There’s nothing like waking up early in the morning and taking a few minutes to meditate. It totally relaxes you and help you deal with situations that may develop throughout​ the day, with a different way or point of view. We have to continually exercise not just our body, but our mind and spirit as well. Be blessed everyone

  • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

    I’ve not had 2 way conversations with God like Neale has, but I do get inspirations, not always in answer to my inquires, but this came recently.

    “Horrible-ness cannot exist without unresolved pain that has not been confronted or healed.”

    • babybleustardust

      Wow that’s a conversation alright :) amen :)

    • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

      Here’s a few more Markoisms just for fun.

      “How big of a barcode do you think you need to scan the Milky way?”

      “Big DEAL! You own a couple of planets—whoop-tee-doo! My cousin owns a few galaxies, and my uncle is putting in a bid on the entire Universe!”

      “Earth is a floating pebble on the cosmic beach of the Universe, a molecule inside the body of God.”

      • Jethro

        Earth is a floating pebble on the cosmic beach…. That explains the flood! :-)

        • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

          Ha, ah yes, but the cosmic beach I’m referring too is the galaxy/universe itself. :-)

          • Jethro

            Wonderful quote Marko. My reply was to create a smile… maybe even a little laughter. 😉

          • Spiritual_Annie

            It did. 😀

          • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

            Oh, I got that! :-)

    • Jethro

      What sound would you have to hear to believe you had a two way conversation with God?

      • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

        Good question Jethro. I’m talking about something where I’m getting replies back that are not from my normal in my head self talk, but somewhere else deeper, that is distinct, from it, but not separate.

        • Jethro

          The voice is always there. How you choose to hear it or define it is up to you… but it’s there every moment.

          • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

            I think I hear part of it, some of the time, but not more of it more of the time. :-)

        • Stephen mills

          The soul voice is the Highest form of love you can imagine .

    • Jethro

      “Listening to God means listening to ourselves” …..2 way conversation with God?

    • Spiritual_Annie

      I heard a good one loud and clear at Evolutionary Church on Saturday: “Love explodes our shame.” Marc Gafni was talking about how unworthy feelings can almost always be traced back to shame that gets covered up and fester’s with time. If, however, we recognize the underlying shame, we can literally love who we were then and know the message was wrong, exploding our shame with Love.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

  • Spiritual_Annie

    Sorry to have been MIA. Have had a few rough days. But I’ve been keeping up on notifications.

    Seems Sam has taken on Patrick in the previous column. I wish him luck, but I blocked Patrick for a reason: he denigrates people, not just their beliefs and experiences and ideas. Good luck, Sam, but please don’t let him put you in a bad space. His twisting of ideas and jumping of subjects and arguing the same thing over and over are about him, not you.

    Marko, you have some incredible insights (conversations with God, in my book). Thanks for sharing so much here.

    Jethro, as always, you put things so straight forward that the truth is easily discerned. I’m glad you’re still here.

    Michelle, I love your tangents and flights into things that give me new perspectives. Keep on, sistah!

    Kirsten, still sending love. Know that all will be well, and it will. (I know, it’s a Mama thing. But do your best to worry as little as possible.)

    Not leaving anyone out intentionally, so if I missed ya, please don’t take it to heart. Miss and​ love y’all!

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • Jethro

      I was Patrick a few years ago. He means no harm, just sharing himself. I could be wrong but, Annie, he respects you deep down. Given the position I was in a few weeks ago I’d have to say I’m enjoying Sam’ comments to Patrick, but don’t think for a second Patrick is not enjoying it too. I’m happy to be here. Thank you.

      Love and Blessings Always

      • Spiritual_Annie

        I’m not so sure that Patrick means no harm. He knows (or says he does) what it’s like to have one’s beliefs attacked by another, whose relentless badgering and need to control the conversation based on theories (he says proofs) he holds just as strongly as any “fundangelical” (as he calls them).

        Damage can be done, rather than him saving us from our “misguided beliefs,” which if he’s half as smart as he pretends to be, he knows won’t win anyone over. Where his logic might possibly start to work, his personality kills whatever inquiry one might have.

        I can honestly say that whether Patrick respects me isn’t something I think about. It’s bad enough having to read him nearly verbatim even though I have him blocked because everyone quotes him. He’s still controlling the conversation, which I believe (based on the evidence) is his true goal. I long for all to have their say, but that doesn’t mean we can’t choose to ignore them. With Patrick, that may be the only choice he leaves us with because engaging with him suits his purpose.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Patrick Gannon

          I mean a lot of harm. If possible, I would disassemble Neale’s and ever other religion’s imaginary, invisible gods that live in the sky. You bet. I don’t know about my “soul’s agenda” but I know about mine.

          Annie says I refer to “proofs” but I would need to see an example of that. I say again and again that science never “proves” anything. I work hard to avoid that word in most cases. Annie, as usual, is intent on misrepresenting me, apparently because I ignite her cognitive dissonance.

          Annie focuses excessively in this post on how I am controlling the conversation. So what? Is she upset because I took that role away from her? Blocking me isn’t going to fix that! That’s the childish approach – “if you don’t play by my rules, I’m going to take the ball and go home.” Boo hoo.

          What always happens with Annie, as in this instance, is that the conversation is directed away from the topic, to personalities. It’s a common tactic of fundagelicals who can’t face the hard questions.

          • Jethro

            Annie is doing just fine, so are you. The one thing none of us will ever screw up is being who we are in any given moment, which is guaranteed to change in any given moment. A gift that all living things have is the ability to accept anyone any way they wish to show up. It’s a tough lesson to learn but very very possible!!! We do not need to shun that which is different. Embrace it. Learn to enjoy it. The person you hate today may be the person who saves you tomorrow.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I am doing quite well, for now, thank you. I’m very much me, most of the time. 😉

            I’ve chosen not to feed into Patrick’s reason for being here, especially when it can cause harm, to myself and others. Any response feeds into it, so I’ve chosen not to.

          • Jethro

            Armor baby, armor! I found I can only be harmed by that which I allow. I’m reading a page, it’s all just words.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            It took two years of intensive therapy to get my d*mned armor off. I’ll not put it back on for the likes of Patrick.

          • Jethro

            Are you sure that wasn’t the dismantling of a wall? I had one of those too, now it’s just armor, put it on take it off. Comfortable fit. No problems.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            No, it was armor. Layers and layers of it, some soldered together, some rusty, but definitely armor. I took it off one layer at a time, which is why it took so long. I didn’t know then that I could blow it up from the inside, but I might have blown myself to bits. Or maybe I could’ve used a ginormous can opener, but then there’s all those worms to deal with all at once.

            No, layers were good, because I came out ready to make different choices. Like not wearing armor, but living instead with an unguarded heart. Doesn’t mean I don’t take care of me, I just do it differently now.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            I was some else the other day, as soon as I got back the other person left. Intimidation at its best!

      • Sam

        “just sharing himself.”

        And that a lot. With you, he is the true and normal average joe. And wonderful, if that’s been the whole story. But it’s not. He is posting things here not at all written by himself, not even by a long shot. Let me exemplify.

        First the normal Pat, from two days ago, to me:

        “Again – hilarious. Sorry for not responding right away. I tend to stay away from the computer on the weekends. Virtual Patrick1 has to cut the grass, while Virtual Patrick2 washes the truck, and Virtual Patrick3 barbeques on the grill, and Virtual Patrick 4 washes his girlfriend’s car, etc. I had to program a lot of virtual copies of myself this past weekend, and I still didn’t have time to come in here and read your post. I am so sorry. Please forgive my lapse. I hope my delayed response wasn’t too painful for you.”

        Then only one hour later he supposedly wrote this as well, also to me:

        “I really don’t see much in this post to debate. We’ve each stated our positions. I’ve placed my reliance in consensus science, demonstrated by compelling objective evidence from countless experiments and observations, while others place their reliance in pseudo-science that relies only on subjective data. I know too much about how unreliable the subjective brain can be, so I’m going where critical thinking directs me.”

        This is not Pat for one second. He: “don’t see much in this post to debate.” Lol, when does the old bulldog ever give in? And: “We’ve each stated our positions.” Lol, such phrasings do not exist in Pat’s vocabulary, not even in his dreams. And so on, and so forth. Two examples, side by side, posted just one hour apart. Easy for anybody to compare, and come to the only conclusion possible. This is not the same person.

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Well, now, I suppose we could give him the benefit of the doubt.

          He could have Dissociative Identity Disorder, or what used to be called having multiple personalities. It’s caused by severe trauma, usually in childhood. Or it could possibly be Borderline Personality Disorder, which my niece has. It’s commonly evidenced by the need to be the center of attention, whether good or bad. But what he reminds me of is Narcissistic Personality Disorder, where one is the center of everything or one acts like a 10 year old. (Trump is a classic case.) But, without more personal information, it can’t be said for sure.

          He does seem to have a thing for unicorns, at least with me…

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          (Good HTML, BTW 😉 )

          • Sam

            Yeah, there is really something different with Pat, as other blogs have noticed as well. Multiple personalities could be one explanation, and me confronting him be a good thing—to have him make bridges :)
            But the switch between personalities should then be even more noticeable, for this to be the case. And the capacity in question, for one person only, is not realistic. So no, this is really a joint operation which includes several people. Maybe a school project, of some sort, or Pat finding some atheist-sponsor, for the purpose to talk some sense into folks like us, using somewhat qualified personnel (he does love money, and always on the lookout for an opportunity). But who knows.
            In any case, it’s not like I’m guessing. I know when I am talking with different people. There will never be a moment where I be in doubt, on this account :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’ll bet you $10,000 that I am who I say I am, and I alone am responsible for what is posted under this account.

            You should have stuck with multiple personalities – that would have been more subjective. You chose an option that can be objectively confirmed, so please find me on Facebook, send me a message, I’ll give you my address; you can show up here with $10,000 and watch me do my thing. And leave without the cash…

          • Sam

            Oh my, you are even more “limited” than average joe. Where did they find you all? :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            OK, so you won’t take the wager, and you won’t produce the evidence, thus you lose the game. I enjoyed playing, but it seems to have nowhere else to go.

          • Sam

            Yep, you seem lost :)

          • Kristen

            Damn…Im lost. Patrick just said ‘Iam who I say I am’.
            Those are lots of small works for Patrick…..Zzzzz, puts me to sleep BUT perhaps thats another persona…a Sam Sam green eggs and ham form of speech??? Hes trying to morph into you. Or Dr Seuss.
            K

          • Sam

            “Damn…Im lost. Patrick just said ‘Iam who I say I am’.”

            Of course, Patrick, the old bulldog, is himself. Those others are not. Not grumpy joe, the fundamentalist (he is “a child”), nor sophisticated joe, presented in the second quote of the two examples put side by side. Check it out :)

            “Hes trying to morph into you”

            Great, one more! Let’s call him morphy joe :)

          • Kristen

            Hey ya,
            What I said probably would make sense if Id typed the word ‘words’ rather than works!!
            Ie those are lots of small WORDS for Patrick!! Using your Sam Sam I am Dr Seuss words! Duh!
            Yip I read that about the two examples..I laughed, standard eye for an eye karma, he accused Jethro of similar a few threads ago. Except sane people dont put up a bet of ten grand to prove a point, the rest of us work hard to make a buck.
            You should have told him to pay your airfares and accommodation to go hang out watching him bbq grill and clean the car, free holiday, then not paid up if youre wrong….he would have no legal case!! Dont you live in Europe somewhere?
            As I said to Mewabe ages ago, anyone with strong opinions and fanatics are boring, and exhausting, no matter their beliefs. Born again science freaks are as boring as born again Christians, CwGers etc. Its rather torturous to even read what they write, let alone being trapped in a room with them. Hell has many faces!!. When you truly believe in something and know it to be the truth, you have no need to argue or really talk about it, other than casually with like minded people.
            Sad thing is, he was devout in Christianity, throwing God in the trash rather than working out the truth from that halfway point…not cool to throw things away completely, its virtually impossible to get them back when you realise you had something of value…which he will one day.
            Im typing this to you not him because I know he hates people ‘talking behind his back’….Isnt the name of the game dissing what anyone else thinks??
            Take care,
            K

          • Sam

            “Except sane people dont put up a bet of ten grand to prove a point, the rest of us work hard to make a buck.”

            Ice cold joe is not sane, for sure. It’s like there was no brain at all.

            “You should have told him to pay your airfares and accommodation to go hang out watching him bbq grill and clean the car, free holiday, then not paid up if youre wrong.”

            Jovial joe could put up a live feed of himself, as a start. For this world champion, be a breeze.

            “As I said to Mewabe ages ago, anyone with strong opinions and fanatics are boring and exhausting,”

            And none more than ice cold joe. But then he suddenly becomes someone else, completely. Which is somewhat intriguing.

            “When you truly believe in something and know it to be the truth, you have no need to argue or really talk about it, other than casually with like minded people.”

            True. I am done long time ago, on the basics. And if I should say something like, “on any mission making the world a better place, there is a mental picture of something wrong going on, which is the very reason for this happening in the first place”. And all you have is dead silence. No takers. Too deep, or far out. Better than to have it all sorted out in a book, for whoever gets it, whenever.

            “Sad thing is, he was devout in Christianity, throwing God in the trash rather than working out the truth from that halfway point…”

            “Christianity” has done many things wrong over a long period of time, and why they now find themselves in a pickle. I use to say: pluck out the best and run :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            Again, so spiritual of this woman, to ponder and propose psychological conditions of a person whose posts she has blocked. UnSpiritual Annie, tries to talk the talk of spirituality, but she certainly doesn’t walk it. If she is an example of what we are to get from Neale’s books, then that’s quite disappointing, because there’s nothing spiritual in her attacks on me, particularly given that she’s blocked me and is only responding to posts of others responding to me! How ethical is that? Her highest version/highest vision thing is floating in the gutter. What this sounds like, is actually a self-diagnosis.

            I’m sorry to disappoint, but I’ve had no childhood trauma aside from the psychological child abuse that Catholic indoctrination imposes on millions of children, as yet incapable of critical thinking. I’ve recovered quite a bit from that “trauma.”

            Yeah, I like to be the center of attention sometimes. So does Annie, so does Neale, so does Jethro, so do most all of us who contribute on a regular basis. So what? I don’t act like a 10 year old, initiating discussions about someone’s mental health after blocking their responses. What could be more childish than that? But hey, if it’s OK for Annie, it’s OK for me to comment on her mental states, right?

        • Patrick Gannon

          Hmm. So how do I prove that I wrote both of those comments? Actually I don’t have to. Sam, you are making the claim, so you have to prove that two different people posted that. You hold the burden of proof. Aside from the fact that the first post is intended to be humorous, and the second was me bailing out of a useless debate going nowhere, the language looks pretty much the same.

          • Sam

            I say all the evidence speaks for itself. But everyone must, of course, come to their own conclusion. I will only pop in to remind us once in a while. As it’s only fair. You are not “all that” :)

          • Jethro

            I’m all that… and a bag of chips!! I say that will moving my head like its separate from my shoulders, you’ve seen it I’m sure.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            You absolutely are All That. And That. And That over there…

            My God! You’re everywhere and everything! (Pun intended. Humor is often useful.)

          • Jethro

            Your all that yourself Annie.
            Humor can save a life… you described my everywhere-ness like a fart in a small car… with the heater on. God didn’t have to give us those moments, or the need for sleep! How much more time would we have if we didn’t need to sleep and look for bathrooms?

          • Spiritual_Annie

            ROFLMAO! So you’re the secret-farter-in-the-car culprit! I guess that’s what’s meant by Rauch, loosely translated to Holy Wind.

          • Jethro

            It’s rarely a secret… no shame.

          • Patrick Gannon

            No, no, no. You started this game. You insist that there is more than one of me. You’ve presented two pieces of texts that you claim come from two different people. How do you plan to go about proving your claim?

          • Sam

            Ah, the fundamentalist is back, playing the objective judge, as usual. One more head on the frankenstein monster. Did you say something? I don’t think so :)

          • Sam

            “No, no, no.”

            So, today the jovial average-joe was gone, and in his place, we got grumpy joe, the fundamentalist.
            Grumpy joe was the first Patrick I had a short conversation with when first coming to this blog. And where I, at one instance, said to him: “No, no, no” (and his reply was: “yes, yes, yes”). And as we see, he is now playing this back to me, as what he recall, from our last and only conversation from earlier. Not before again being the exact same grumpy fundamentalist, just like back then, he would “remember”, of course, as those others playing Patrick as well is not him.
            One more piece of evidence in the pile. Picking the frankenstein monster apart as we go :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            Grumpy!? Grumpy? I wish you could see the big smile on my face as I spar with you in this silly game of yours. I could have walked away, but I’m having fun with it. You want to see grumpy? You should hang out on the Catholic blog. I can be downright mean and nasty at times, there. Here, I only give in attitude, what I get in attitude.

            You haven’t provided any evidence for anything, and as with some of your other posts, I am having difficulty deciphering this one; given what appears to be grammatical issues.

            How can I be a fundamentalist? This is the definition: “a person who believes in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture in a religion.” What strict literal interpretation of what scripture in what religion, do you refer to? Now, here’s a suggestion for you. If you arbitrarily capitalize the word “Fundamentalist,” then like Neale, you can completely change the meaning of the word to whatever you want.

            How does this work by the way? What are the logistics? I have a bunch of Patrick’s in my office waiting their turn at the keyboard? Or I sign out and let another Patrick sign in? How does each Patrick know when it is his turn to post? This forum doesn’t seem to show who is online at any given time, so how would Patrick2 know that Patrick1 is not on the forum so that he can take over?

          • Sam

            All in good time, dear “Frankenstein”. How you argue is like from a “newborn”. Quite frankly, it doesn’t interest me. I need more meat on the bone to make the effort. You being a group of people playing a game, is more intriguing. Let’s see if I can bring it all down. I have a couple of years to spare. Could be fun :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            Meat on the bone? Where’s yours? I challenged you to a $10,000 wager. You’ve produced no evidence for multiple copies of me. As the lady on the old commercial used to say, “Where’s the beef?” You have as much evidence as Neale does.

        • Spiritual_Annie

          You left out having to have the last word. Which I presume is why it looks like he replied to me, below, even though I have him blocked.

          • Patrick Gannon

            You speak ill of a person and then block them so you can’t see their response. You are so spiritual, Annie. Your highest version/highest vision leaves much to be desired.

        • Jethro

          I don’t find it intimidating in the least. Confusing sometimes, but my comprehension has a little left to be desired most times. If I’m speaking to AI that’s ok, I’m impressed by level of communication.

          I’ve learned a lot about my own beliefs while trying to defend it. Excellent exercise.

          • Sam

            I somewhat agree. But it’s not fair: Many against the one, coming across as a bottomless authority. You can trick people like that, making them feel inferior, having them surrender to whatever. And just because you, Jethro, are strong, doesn’t mean everyone is. All authorities need to be brought down somewhat, for others to find some fresh air. And none more than this frankenstein-thing, calling itself Patrick Gannon.

        • Kristen

          Girlfriend????? Really????
          Thats the bit that has me stumped..biarchy mood!!

    • Kristen

      Rough few days? Is all ok now?
      Daughters texting daily as ordered to. In 3 days shes navigated the London underground, been to Ripleys, British museum, Maddam Tussards, London Dungeon, London Eye, M&M World, Choccywoccydoodah cafe and big ben.
      No terrorists so far thank goodness, but Ill feel so much better on Saturday when shes on a Contiki bus for 6 weeks. Although her first week in France is probably as nerve wracking! I just wont think about it.
      Then her dream after her tour….the Titanic museum and Ireland. Im sure the Titanic museum isnt a target!
      Take care Annie,
      Xx

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Better, at any rate. It’s been raining here for days and days, and is to continue for days and days. Weather fronts moving through increase my pain.

        I’m glad you’re hearing from your daughter regularly. Sounds like a grand tour! I’ve never been out of the States, but traveling isn’t really my thing. Did my share of bus riding the year I went to college in Iowa, a 12-hour ride each way. Did my share of flying when I lived in California and Mama was in Missouri. I guess my butt’s planted here until we go underwater—I live on a peninsula on a peninsula—right next to a bay—in Florida, so when sea levels rise, we’re one of the first to know.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Kristen

          Michelle can visit, she’s a dolphin today!

  • Patrick Gannon

    1. Possibility – given the total lack of compelling, objective evidence, the possibilities are far, far greater, that there are no gods or afterlives. Yes, there is a possibility that unicorns exist, but it’s such a small possibility that it makes no sense spending any time on it. The possibility for gods and afterlives is about the same as for unicorns – actually unicorns may be more likely to have actually existed for a brief time. Maybe we’ll find fossil remains some day. We won’t find any compelling, objective evidence for gods though, will we?

    “we already know that people have had conversations with God. Moses said he did, and many believe him, ”

    NO, we do not “already know that people have had conversations with God.” We know people have claimed this – Jim Jones, Charlie Manson, Marshall Applewhite, etc. What we know, beyond reasonable doubt is that there was no mass Exodus from Egypt as described in the bible and hence no Moses. Just because people believe that these people have had a conversation with some imaginary, invisible being that lives in the sky, certainly does not mean it actually happened. Joseph Smith – how could Neale use that terrible example? Smith was a known fraud, for crying out loud. That’s his evidence? Joseph Smith? The man who claimed Jews moved to America in 500 BC, yet not a shred of Jewish DNA is found in native Americans? The man who claimed a huge battle was fought between dark and light skinned people in America using horses that were not introduced till the 1600s, and steel weapons that had never existed in America until about the same time, and for which zero evidence exists in the archaeological record. The man who said that people of dark skin were cursed by God? That was the communication Smith had with God. Come on Neale, you can do better than that!

    Like any religious leader, Neale is starting with an unproven conclusion. He wants to teach us about the care and feeding of unicorns, without having established that unicorns exist.

    2. Worthiness – I don’t understand this title or heading. What follows in this section is excellent advice regarding mindfulness and meditation. No gods required. This is all stuff that is good for our brains, good for our consciousness. Is “god” being defined as the state in which we stop our System 2 thinking so as to experience a different state of consciousness? God or no god, if you learn to meditate, we can learn to take greater control of the hamster on the spinning wheel in our brains. This has nothing to do with being “worthy.” It has to do with self-control and self discipline.

    3. Willingness – we shall see where that takes us. Being willing to believe in things for which there is absolutely no compelling, objective evidence should be off the table.

    • Jethro

      The unicorns remains are laying under the missing links bones.

      • Patrick Gannon

        Right next to the remains of gods and afterlives.

        • Jethro

          If Gods and afterlife had bones we’d have physical proof. Truth is they’re both stored in a lightning bolt and those are dangerous to dig in!

    • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

      “NO, we do not “already know that people have had conversations with
      God.” We know people have claimed this – Jim Jones, Charlie Manson,
      Marshall Applewhite, etc” Those might be more accurately called highly distorted conversations with God.

      If there is no God & we are just having conversation with ourselves, so be it. CwG as well as other spiritual disciplines conclude more or less this

      Sufi proverb:

      “I searched for God and only found myself, I searched for myself and only found God.”

      Meaning there is no difference. Save what Neale calls portion, we are a smaller portion, God is the larger portion. I personally think we purposefully incarnate in this smaller portion form to see/experience the vastness & wonder of the ourselves as the Universe, which is simply a larger part of us looking back at us.

      If you believe in intuition (which I think you do based on past talks here) that is the part of us that is psychic, which is very subjective, and can vary depending on our openness & current state of mind. It’s in this highly subjective state that NDE & afterlife experiences are experienced. To conclude it’s all in the mind only, is true. All experience is in the mind, even though it includes the body & it’s nebulous invisible brother the soul. Call him James Brown.

      CwG says of physical life that it’s all subjective. There is no objective truth. Thus we can conclude that even the afterlife is an illusion & subjective, as all life is physical even the hereafter according to CwG material. The afterlife being a different form than the physical we now experience.

      Unicorns do exist Pat, we simply have their ugly fat brother the Rhino on this planet! 😉

      Did Moses, Jesus, Bozo the clown really exist? Possibly, but only ET’s who have holographic proof of that time period will really convince some of us. Or, some future historical as yet found archeological discoveries. What matters to me personally, is less of the idea of whether say Jesus lived or not, but what was left, or purported to be said by him (which is disputable given early church editing & omissions) and can we use it. The church did omit the belief in reincarnation since it empowered the people to come back & get them later on.

      I can appreciate the logic you are coming from & it suits you well. But I don’t feel that anything I or others say here is really going to convince you to change your perspective. Perhaps I’m just slightly more amusing to you. :-)

      So while I think you really do have an honest inquiry to these cosmic ontological existential matters, here and elsewhere in the internet blog world,–I’m not sure what else you are getting from us or this? Or why you stick around? I’m not sure. What is your purpose here & what keeps you coming back? Entertainment perhaps?

      • Patrick Gannon

        Bozo existed. I used to watch him as a little kid! There is compelling, objective evidence for him! Moses almost certainly did not. Jesus – hard to say… the odds are against it… certainly not as depicted, but there may have been an itinerant preacher who ticked off the Romans and got himself (permanently) killed. I think he was a mythical figure, but we have insufficient evidence to say definitively one way or the other.

        I appreciate your perspective, but I think Neale insists on a real deity. My primary goal is to try and convince people to challenge their beliefs, by providing evidence and information that disputes those beliefs. I don’t think lying to ourselves is healthy, and that’s what you do when you tell your brain to believe something for which it has no evidence.

        Why do I stick around? Why not? The job’s not done. If Neale were to pen an article saying that he is retiring, that he manifested the whole thing out of his imagination, and thank everyone for their financial contributions to his well-being, then I’d be done. I could praise and admire him as a clever scoundrel, and chuckle over the fools who parted with their money (myself included) to his benefit. I will continue to badger the Catholic Church which unlike Neale’s organization, worships an evil god. The RCC is in trouble. Attendance is plummeting and what we’ve learned from DNA debunks the Church’s belief in original sin, and without that, there’s no justification for the existence of the Church. They know that – and they are trying to bury it and hide it behind other distractions like whether divorced Catholics who remarry, should be permitted to take Communion.

        Yeah, entertainment is part of it too. I enjoy matching wits. I enjoy the debate. My dad was a great debater. We used to go at it all the time. When he was no longer able to do so because of dementia, that told me that I needed to keep my mind sharp and active, which he didn’t do for reasons I won’t go into here. Part of the reason for being here is to stay frosty, stay active, keep learning, keep debating, keep questioning, keep answering, keep on keeping on. What else is there to do? I enjoy it. Why should I stop?

        Why do you stick around? Why does anyone? Why am I the only one asked this question? Again and again and again….

        • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

          You get this question more probably because you seem a bit relentless in your challenges. I’ve seen others come and go who challenged as well, they too have taken a delight in getting some people worked up. I’d rather inspire, but I do know the game you are playing & I think you hope to eventually, or, at least here and there hit some really sweet spots, that bring you some reasonable satisfaction.

          It will be interesting to see how long you stay. At some point you accept the theory & how it works or doesn’t in your life, or even part of it. Otherwise I think you will eventually tire of being here, but, we will see.

          I on the other hand, study the CwG writings on pretty much a daily basis. So I’m here as an enthusiastic student.

          I’ve been on Neale’s blogs since the beginning, like 18 years or so. I’ve watched and seen a lot of changes & advancements.

          I’ve pretty much said all I can say to you without repeating what I’ve already said before.

          Good luck in your endeavors. I do think you are sincere in your efforts here. Perhaps I’ll weigh in on a few things with you here and there, but I doubt I will give you anything real satisfying, so doubt it will be helpful either. That’s okay, that’s just where it’s at.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Thanks for sharing, Marko. You’ve got me beat. I read the first three books in 2009. I started with the “Conversations Movement” back in 2012. That’s when this idea floated that we enthusiasts should spread the CwG movement through personal contacts with media, stars, politicians, sportspeople, etc. but that was all canceled in favor of the standard New Age business model with DVDs and retreats and programs, and books, etc. Several of us were disappointed to discover that it was really all about money, and I think this startled some of the involved insiders at the time, who bailed out afterwards.

            I can’t say I “study” CwG as I did in the old days, but I search through it from time to time, and now, the more closely I read it, the less sense it makes to me. Of course I also made the mistake of learning enough real science to understand that there is a tremendous burden of proof on Neale for any gods and afterlives.

            Please understand that there are some things of great value, in his works, just as there are in any religious work. This particular article about mindfulness and meditation can be very helpful. On the other hand, caution is needed. I’ve been reading articles recently about people having very bad experiences meditating. Lots of people are getting into it, without really knowing what they are doing, and some are having bad meditation “trips.” I’ve never had anything like that happen to me, but we’re playing with people’s brains here.

            However mindfulness is a powerful and useful personal tool, when you need to pull yourself together in a hurry, and clear your mind of the crap so you can think clearly, logically and critically, so I certainly endorse it, as do the Marines and the Navy Seals. But no gods are required. I don’t know if you read “Stealing Fire.” All this consciousness stuff is great – but it’s not other-worldly, and that’s what I object to, when someone like Neale takes advantage of widespread scientific illiteracy, in order to fill his wallet. So, I’m going to share stuff that actually has evidence behind it. Neale can’t claim that with regard to his god.

          • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

            I hear you bro. I think you are actually doing what Neale suggests. Take from CwG what works for you & if other stuff does not, leave it. So congrats on using the material in a way that suits you and your logic.

            Use the practical mindful, psychological stuff etc. and leave the ethereal esoterics to others.

            ” That’s when this idea floated that we enthusiasts should spread the CwG
            movement through personal contacts with media, stars, politicians,
            sportspeople, etc. but that was all canceled in favor of the standard
            New Age business model with DVDs and retreats and programs, and books,
            etc. Several of us were disappointed to discover that it was really all
            about money, and I think this startled some of the involved insiders at
            the time, who bailed out afterwards.”

            Having been with Neale personally & with many others who are even closer to him, this sentiment has never come up.

            Some years ago I had lunch with his former personal secretary who is still much involved with his work and she told me that he gave most of his money away. That of course was her personal opinion.

          • Sam

            “she told me that he gave most of his money away”

            That’s how I imagined it.

        • Jethro

          “Why am I the only one asked this question? Again and again and again”…. Because you are viewed as someone who hates what this site stands for. It is viewed in the same manner as stepping in a large pile of dung and standing there even though you are aware of it and claim to not like the dung. It was hard for me to understand at first but figured out you enjoy the debate. A debate cannot be held between two people who agree, You have to be in a crowed of people who disagree if your gonna play the game. Nobody really understands you yet, even after all this time.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Jethro,

            Oh, my! An early morning image of dung heaps. Oddly, that’s got me smiling.

            I think you hit the nail on the head—Patrick is here because he enjoys it. I’d take it even further and say he’s addicted, since he apparently posts arguments on other blogs as well, or so he’s said.

            I won’t call it “debating,” though. That has rules, and he regularly breaks them. (One of my sibs was on the Debate Team for three years and I was enlisted to rip apart his weak points, so I’m familiar with the rules of civil debate.) He becomes judgmental and makes assumptions about personalities (or, at least he did with me, though he accused me of doing that very thing when I defended myself). Whenever I’d confront him with his own ideas, reworded but with the same meaning, he’d revert to calling it a “straw man” tactic when it wasn’t. And I believe he’s still angry about feeling he was taken in by a charlatan as that’s how he often has referred to Neale, so it’s personal. None of those things belongs in debate, though they’re common in arguments.

            I can tell by other people’s comments that he’s in attack mode against me because I’ve stopped playing his game. That just tells me he’s showing his true nature. By disengaging, I’ve taken away part of what he desires—to argue, be the center of attention, and be in control of the conversation. His reaction was predictable. I’d even bet good money he’s implied I’m not playing fair by commenting about him while I have him blocked, but when he’s the topic at hand, I certainly have the right to express my own opinion. (How long did it take for him to call me “Unspiritual Annie,” another of his tactics?)

            I will continue to stay disengaged as I’ve already given him more than a second chance. And I will continue to say a prayer for him every time I see “This user is blocked.”

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Patrick Gannon

            “I will continue to stay disengaged.” WHAT! What the heck is she talking about? Post after post after post about me, and she claims she is “disengaged”????? What a riot! Somebody send her a dictionary so she can look up “disengaged.” To be “disengaged” is to be emotionally detached. Does any rational person here think Annie is emotionally detached?

            What crap – I have not initiated any posts to Annie, only responded to her rants. She apparently wants to spend more time talking about me than anything else. She never misses an opportunity to criticize me. If she wants it to stop, then she can stop making post after post after post about me! You’d think she had a crush on me, she’s so fixated on me.

          • Gross Prophet

            Yeah…we can all see. You display no sign of psychopathy, whatsoever…/s

          • Patrick Gannon

            Well, I certainly don’t “hate” what this site stands for. It’s supposed to stand for a global conversation, and I don’t think anyone here has spoken of the advantages of that more than myself. Recall, that I want to start a global conversation about the five pillars of the Abrahamic religions that have washed away, leaving those religions debunked. There’s no “hate” involved in participating in this site. I am concerned that so many people are led astray by people like Neale who enrich themselves by promoting beliefs that have no evidence.

            There are fundagelicals who show up here every once in a while. They go on about how Neale is a spawn of Satan for not following the bible literally, but they never last long – after all, they have no more evidence than Neale does. I, on the other hand, support things that have libraries and labs full of compelling, objective evidence, so it is not so easy to chase me away. Instead of running out of material, the evidence for my side continues to mount. Why would I walk away, when science is winning? The more I am challenged, the more I try to learn more.

            I prefer to think of myself as the person who takes up the pitchfork and picks up the dung, slinging it off to the manure pile on the side, and replacing it with clean straw, only for unfounded beliefs and faith, to crap all over it again.

            Yes, I do enjoy the debate. I guess it’s kind of cool that I’m an enigma. I’m OK with that. Never wanted to be just another member of a crowd. Go big or go home!

    • babybleustardust

      Patrick, if it is true that “there is a total lack of compelling, objective evidence, the possibilities are far, far greater, that there are no gods or afterlives,” then why does the majority of the world believe in both a god of some sort and an afterlife? huh? Just answer that one, okay :) I’m sticking on my horse and it can be purple and pink and gold and silver with a touch of blue and a pink bow on his head. He’s quantum, man, and if an atom blinks, it’s done. Species are born with a thought and evolution is a revolution. What we do is say what we don’t need and what the world needs is a god not a not-god but a quantum belief is still a belief in a god because god is quantum, so you believe in quantum energy. Therefore you believe. I guess I can’t call you pagan, Patrick, after all :) .

      • Patrick Gannon

        I have a soft spot for Pagans. I am FB friends with a pagan gal in Scotland. We used to participate in a blog about god. Back then, I was pitching CwG with great evangelistic zeal.

        As to why we believe in gods and souls, most researchers think it gave us an evolutionary advantage. There are several lines of thought on the subject and I’m not sure I can do it justice but I’ll try.

        Some suggest that it’s the result of bottom-up Darwinian evolution. There was an evolutionary advantage in creating these traits or preferences for gods and religions. They gave us a way to cope with out growing understanding (that animals do not seem to have) that we are food for worms, i.e. we’re gonna die. It was a way to explain the unknown, a way to be drawn together in tribes for mutual safety and success, a way to identify us versus them. Others think that the evolution was more top down, and point to a term originated by Richard Dawkins called “memes.” Memes are ideas, concepts, short stories, that like biological entities, take on a life of their own and evolve and change and mutate as they are passed down from generation to generation. Words, in this sense are memes. With the invention of language, Daniel Dennett a leading researcher on the subject, suggests that our minds are the result of top down meme evolution in addition to bottom up, biological evolution. To try and create the chain of logic he uses to arrive at this idea is more than I can put into a post here, but his argument is very compelling.

        Religion and gods in this sense, are memes. They are ideas that took root and they changed, mutated, evolved, and became ingrained in our societies. As it turns out, there are some, very few, isolated tribes that do not have belief in gods and souls, and that would support the top-down evolutionary idea; in other words it wasn’t the result of biological evolution, but something that evolved as part of society, a word meme that referred to a concept that caught on, reproduced and persisted. Like biological organisms it might be imagined that memes also reproduce, as did the Catholic Church, with countless offspring, being produced; and like biological organisms, the religion/god meme may have a limited life as well.

        The short answer is that we’re still working on the question (no, Sam, by “we” I don’t mean me personally), but the articles I’m reading indicate that other researchers think Dennett’s ideas make a lot of sense; and after all, he’s aggregating what the whole field of study is learning. Biological evolution normally happens quite slowly, but our minds apparently developed very quickly – something that has been puzzling – and this appears to have been linked to the word meme. It influenced natural selection, but at a faster rate since it was driven top down.

        Go back 50,000 years and you’re going to prefer to mate with someone else who can talk, and the trait is passed on. Those with brains that make word memes operate better reproduce at greater rates than their peers, so they pass on their genes, speeding up the process. Whatever biological advantage made the brain capable of it in the first place, the exercise of speech then advanced the evoluiton of the mind and even the brain, by making that trait more desirable; so it developed quickly. That’s the theory as I understand it. It’s a theory that does not have the weight of evidence behind it that something like the core theory of physics, has though. It’s a work in progress.

        Hope that helps.

        • Sam

          “The short answer is that we’re still working on the question (no, Sam, by “we” I don’t mean me personally)”

          Well, you are pretty high on yourself, I am not sure :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            “..you are pretty high on yourself..”

            If true, would that be so bad? If so, why? I wonder if a lot of issues people have are because deep down, they really don’t like themselves….

          • Sam

            And you are sure you’re not on something? :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            I exercise my fifth amendment right not to incriminate myself.

            Actually, at the moment, no. I’m generally looking for my friend Jack this time of day, but I have karate class to teach tonight. I get to beat up a bunch of little kids twice a week! How cool is that! Jack has to wait till I get back.

            We had a test for a bunch of white belts last week, and we always ask the kids their names, ages, stuff like that, and why they took karate. Usually it’s because their parents make them. I turned to the parents in the stands and told them they should join karate with their kids, like I did. I explain that it’s the only place you’re allowed to hit your kids in public! I received an enthusiastic response! I left unsaid, that the day comes, after they advance in rank, when the kids are hitting the parents in public! I still tell my son I can take him, but I’m in no hurry to try to prove that! Uh oh, I’m rambling – because I’m putting off dealing with a business issue.

            As for other substances – see the first line again. LOL

          • Patrick Gannon

            Here I am having senseless conversations with you – doing exactly what I criticized Jethro for. I’m having fun, but might have to let this go.

          • Sam

            And hello there, jovial joe, old bulldog. Your brain is pretty slow, compared to grumpy joe, the fundamentalist. But on the other side, he is just “a child”, having no depth or baggage. Have a good watch. I am turning in :)

          • Kristen

            Mmmmmmm interesting. Interesting info and take on a lot of things…why the heck would anyone want to hurt a kid, let alone theirs?
            Now drinking comes up….wow! Looking for your friend Jack???? Whats with the LOL about drugs and drinking?
            And you dont like personal stuff or attacks in here?

          • Patrick Gannon

            Surely you can’t have misunderstood the humor? I live in Bible Belt territory and people do whip/spank their kids. They know they can’t do it in public or they will be in trouble. I’m chiding them. In karate class however, the JOKE is that they can hit their kids and get away with it. We call it sparring, and the hitting is very light, or it is quickly stopped. We only hit from the waist to the top of the chest. Nothing to the back, nothing to the knees, etc., nothing to the head. We take scared, intimidated, kids (and women) teach them basics and get them sparring – no pads, just personal control. I wear myself out dancing around the kids and teasing them about how they can’t hit the old man. They go from being afraid to hit me, to chasing me around and trying their best to do so. It’s a blast. Always, some kid is asking, “Do we get to spar today?”

            The kids pick it up pretty quickly with an instructor who can get them out of the shell, but you get moms who are too scared to hit, because they’ve been told all their lives to be demure, subservient, etc. They push the arm out, with nothing behind it. It sometimes takes a while, but those of us who have been doing this for a long time can take a hit, and to get them started, we encourage them to hit us harder than under normal sparring circumstances. Boy, the change on the women’s faces as they experience the pleasure of punching a guy in the stomach hard! Each shot a little harder and each smile a little wider. Some of them become quite proficient. It’s really fun to watch parent/child sparring. We’re sitting on the sideline, “Come on Tommy! Imagine your dad just took away your cellphone!” Now siblings sparring each other sometimes has to be more carefully monitored!

            You’re right – I let Sam suck me into a nonsensical debate, but you guys blather on about nonsensical stuff, so I figured I was overdue to waste data bits myself. Yes, I look for my friend Jack in the evening, but on weekends, my gal pal Margarita sometimes joins me in the evening. Every once in a while, though very rarely, my other gal pal Bloody Mary will show up for breakfast. I don’t know what any of this has to do with personal attacks. Nobody has insulted anyone else in this exchange.

          • Kristen

            Haha…you forgot that everything I say is said with a smile!!!
            Nice to see you felt a need to explain yourself and speak normally without a boring text book though..Another round to me.
            Blathering is good, general normal conversation.
            Cider and sparkling Rose here, plus Heineken as beer choice, but I hardly drink, maybe once a month if that. Cheap date, three drinks and Im trying not to heave! My bodies never been able to take much alcohol.
            Take care,
            K

          • babybleustardust

            Heineken is good. Samuel Adams comes in handy and a scottish lager Wow stiff one. Actually, my personal favorite is corona with lime and salt. mmmm I used to never drink but divorce allows me to have one. I went twenty years without a drink and now I can take two with a smile. Anymore and I am likely dancing not with a shade but viva le moment a little too much :) I can’t hold any whiskey. Oh god. Never would I do whiskey. In college, it was martini with green olives. Wow but not now. I am light headed with two coronas once a month or so.

          • Sam

            “Nice to see you felt a need to explain yourself and speak normally without a boring text book though..”

            True. Normal Joe is okay. But then someone has it switched to syco-mode, putting in 1200 words, time and energy, on quoting rules(!) (on a spiritual blog!), totally running people over, relentlessly attacking. That is no human, but a thing, having all kinds of information easily at hand, and therefore easy to do. Yuck :)

          • Kristen

            Yeah I l know. I said in here years ago, to Mewabe, that Ill only talk to people with personality and showing it, refusing to speak when people are robotic or speaking like a brainwashed clone vomiting out facts or quotes. Thats what boring text books are for, not people. Been there, done that, the boring books are demoted to collecting dust! Its scary when people dont show personality and somehow speak online different to how they would in real life and Im sheer stubborn when it comes to finding the person behind the “it”, mask, bullcrock, facts especially in real life.
            “That is no human, but a thing”‘….ref quote Sam on CwG Global Conversation, June 2017, I wouldnt want to get sued for plaigarism, what a douche!, yip…I ignore ‘it’, puts me to sleep, or redirect the conversation to human beings being human…then Normal Joe suddenly reappears. Funny that, there seems to be a stop button on the “it”, and its chit chat! Patrick has said he’s in here conducting a social experiment, just turn it around on him and make him speak as a person. Although how a science geek can present a true result based on this is beyond me…sounds like made up science. Especially since the word social in that context means ‘relating to human society or organised, or informal gathering (Collins NZ dictionary, 175 years of dictionary publishing publishing, page 771, again, so I dont get sued). No other definition fits the so called unscientific experiment.
            SINCE HE/IT HAS BEEN OPEN ABOUT THAT, ALTHOUGH PROBABLY ONLY TO ME, YOU SHOULD ASK FOR A COPY OF THE DETAILS AND ENSURE YOU ARE GIVING CONSENT BUT ITS NOT AN EXPERIMENT AT ALL, THERE IS MORE THAN ONE DEVIANCE, THEREFORE SUE FOR THE TEN GRAND HE HAS SPARE! haha.

            Even if a real experiment, legal and had a point, his professional opinion, therefore hypothesis, is that no matter what he does or says people will react exactly as he predicts (from an IT guy!). Well, hes forgotten the one factor about human reactions, and Universal Laws…THAT EVERY ACTION HAS A REACTION, AND THE REACTOR OWNS THEIR OWN REACTION, ITS SOMETHING THE INSTIGATOR CANNOT CONTROL, ESPECIALLY LONG TERM. ie If a sexual abuser gets the reaction 40 years later of someone cutting off his balls, then tough shirte. Thats how Karma works, it can bite you in the bum at anytime, in any form and anywhere, IF based on reactions.

            Ask “it” about shoes, or anything irrelevant, but ever so important in human lives, and the “it” dies a sudden death. Yahoo!
            I do hope your BFF Patrick, and his “it” buddy note that I’ve put all your references in speechmarks, and the source of it!
            Take care,
            K

          • babybleustardust

            Bible belt. Spare the rod and spoil the child never sunk into this southern belle. Never would I spank. I never believed in it ever. I wonder why any would feel the need to do this? Spanking is not normal, not that I was normal as a kid but I know I never deserved the “spankings” i got.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Define normal. Normal for who or what? Animals in the wild will cuff their cubs to teach them something to save their lives. I’m one of those who thinks a quick smack on the butt of the kid who almost jumped out of your hands and ran across the street into traffic is worth any future angst or mental anguish – if it serves to save the kid’s life in the future. Remember, we are animals. We survived because some of those animal traits kept us alive.

            Now, I know what’s next. Pat the child abuser. Sigh.

          • babybleustardust

            I am not saying that but I am that who did not spank at all and that scenario happened to me and I jumped in front of the car to get my kid. Would do it again and again and again all over again without a spank. Not saying you’re an abuser, just different strokes for different folks 😉

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I never spanked my boys. Not even a swat on the well-padded diaper. David’s punishment, as he was eight years older than Brandon, was barring him from his electronics. He had an Atari game system and a Tandy PC. Man, he’d sulk! I always found with little ones that a sharp or loud calling of their name or just “NO!” stopped them in their tracks so they wouldn’t get hurt, then I’d follow with an explanation at their level of understanding. (I had lots and lots and lots of practice with my many nieces and nephews, being the go-to babysitter.)

            Sometimes it was letting them do something that was harder. Brandon falling on his butt when he was learning to walk. David riding his bike to school. Those kinds of things were more nerve wracking for me. Or when Brandon got a miniaturized and motorized Big Foot truck. Yikes!

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Sam

            “Not saying you’re an abuser, just different strokes for different folks ;)”

            Violent behavior towards children. Indifference, smile, and a wink. Sad. I take your wings back.

          • Sam

            “Now, I know what’s next. Pat the child abuser.”

            Here I live you are by law. And regardless any laws too, in my view.

          • babybleustardust

            Patrick, I can’t believe that you teach karate. Here is why. You said some of you woo goddesses try growing legs on a paraplegic. I thought you were in a wheelchair or something because of the war. I thought you were a vet or something. See how we dream and don’t know diddly squat. Here you teach karate. What degree? In my life, I am one known as the Black Jack Kid. Nevermind, I am a mama that doesn’t give a rip about the color of my belt. If somebody came at my kid, I whip out memory and whoa whoa whoa black jack mama swings with all she’s got and it’s a pink belt lined with blue baby blue. HeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeYaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah and that’s the loudest HeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeYaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah you’ll ever see, hear, taste, think in your moving and grooving quantum scientific brain. boomshakalaka nothing but something. Here is my fortune that just came in. One is for my black daddy jack cat who said this is my fortune. They gave me two cookies. This is his and I got that message apriori before opening my fortune cookie his fortune cookie. Here’s his quantum Guy in the apple of my eye the big tree in the orchard. Hold on. It says “Let there be magic in your smile and firmness in your handshake.” Me? I smile but I never give a big handshake. Here is my fortune: “Go after what you want. There is no time like the present.” That’s me. I’m taking it as a premonition. I’m going after aaah I don’t know something. I’m going after something. Guy is something. He must be something to put up with me :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            Hmm. I don’t know where you got the idea I was in a wheelchair. I have commented on the inability of prayer, or the “law” of attraction or anything else, to ever heal an amputee, but that’s about it. I’ve mentioned several times that I run two or three evenings a week, and read (listen to) audible books while I run. Something always hurts at my age, but you gotta keep moving.

            I’m not a Vet. My draft number was “16” back in 1973 when the Vietnam War was winding down and the draft ended. With that number, I was absolutely going to be drafted. My dad was military, and my son is military – I came of age when the military was downsizing.

            I’ve been doing karate for about 20 years, I guess. I had stopped but took it up again when my son got old enough. I always joked that it was so I could hit him in public, and we did have a lot of fun sparring. I still spar with him if he comes home on leave and comes to class with me – but I’m a bit more careful now, not to make him mad! I keep telling him I can still take him (but I don’t particularly want to test that!).

          • babybleustardust

            That’s good. I wouldn’t test any kid called black jack. I am a black daddy jack and no kid is aiming higher than his daddy never. Every kid can win against the daddy jack. Why? Because kids are you kidding about kids or not? Kids are always smarter than their parents.

          • babybleustardust

            Don’t ask me that question. Don’t even think of it. I smile for nothing. Seriously, people see me and say “what are you on. I want some.” I am contagious, deliously happy on nothing but nothing. something is nothing. seriously, something is nothing. Why? because to have something is to have nothing. It’s magic. We’re here but not. To speak of nothing is to speak of something, and to speak of something is to speak of no thing :0)

          • babybleustardust

            Awwww Patrick. We really love you. Now everybody get off paga Patrick. He needs to go to confession and say a few hail Marys. In the name of the Father, the Mother and the HOly Ghost. Say your prayers man or count those beads. I’m going to New Orleans after the Mexican cavern but that is in spring when I wear my beads my damn self oh well. I better go to confession. Whew divorce has a way of making one tell endless streams of nothing. It’s probably my new belly button ring green emrald crystal. Okay. It’s magic. I confess I am the pink ribbon of the Green Man :) Look it up in Scotland. Who said they are going to Scotland? I went Rosland Chapel 1988 touched the Green Man myself whew what a man wow wee

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I’m jealous! That’s one of the places I would be willing to travel to, is Rosalind Chapel, just because it’s such an oddity. I hear they had to close it to tourists after Dan Brown’s book went Hollywood. Too much damage being done.

            Oh, the nostalgia! I don’t often think about all the posessions I’ve lost, but I do wish I still had my first rosary, only because I worked so hard to earn it from my Granny. I was so young that it was made out of seed beads—the itty bitty ones—and was still in its original snap-shut clutch that said “My First Rosary” on it in gold lettering. Had my great grandmother’s worn out one, too, since I was named after her. Don’t miss the forced praying, though. Spontaneous suits me much better.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

        • babybleustardust

          Patrick, I know this response is worthy. I’m going to come back, of course, after I google a few of your references, and I will quote something because as an english teacher, I know that I can use block quotes perfectly in aligntment with MLA standard format according the Modern Literature Association, but here is what I want to comment on for now. Go back 50,000 years and find a mate who can speak a meme? or not. When was fire started? I want that guy, the fire starting. Who needs words man with a fire starting king. I am a queen fire fire fire I’m rambling on here. Time for a chinese cookie soon. Neale must make a post soon before we turn into another 555 thread blog. I’ll be back. Love you anyhoo. Don’t tell your girlfriend not. Tell her I love her for putting up with you :)

    • Patrick Gannon

      I doubt many noticed that I like Neale’s Point #2, though I don’t care for the name “Worthiness” or see the connection to imaginary, invisible gods that live in the sky (grin). I stumbled across this video that I saw a while back, and for your friends who have no idea what meditation is all about, or how to do it, this is a really good, quick, short video of how to meditate. Google “youtube how to train your monkey mind” This is a great expansion of Neale’s 10-second meditation suggestion.

      • babybleustardust

        monkey mind is for monkeys and so are bananas. I hate bananas. Will eat them if I need to but seriously I like berries much more. At any rate, give us the short version of what this “expert” does differently. There are so many ways to meditate that no one can create a perfect one for any one :) I am perfect when I just close my eyes and see into the deep. It gets ramped up. All I got to do is look up into the forehead region and dreaaaaaam dream dream when I want to be at peace. Hold on. I am smoking and drinking coke zero woo baby woo

        • Patrick Gannon

          He does nothing different – basic breath focus – but the way he teaches it, is amusing and easily interpreted by those who don’t know what meditation is all about. It’s a quick, short video – well worth the watch.

          • babybleustardust

            oh yeah. You’re right. I forgot all about the breath focus. That gets really intense. Sometimes before my wreck. It’s been awhile since I’ve been that laid back but I could do like my grandma and play dead. It was like I wasn’t breathing. Just pure stillness. Whew that was bliss but my God told me kriya how do you spell it? yoga is good and that book taught about breathing too. I might take that up. Who knows. I might take up karate. I need a white belt to go on top of my pink one. I might need a black belt before it is ovrer :) I know a very good shihan and damn he is a hunk too :) oh well. I love martial arts.

  • Spiritual_Annie

    This just struck me, after years of experiencing it:

    “…I should say that God talks all the time, but we can hear God better in the spaces between our thoughts.”

    YES! Thank you, Neale, for you’ve solved a conundrum for me.

    People have asked me periodically what it is I am thinking about when I drift off during just an everyday conversation. I can’t give them an answer because I don’t remember thinking about anything in particular. I’m not daydreaming, nor do I find most conversations unpleasant enough to leave (exception here, noted). Those who’ve known me a while just let me be because, if no one brings me back to the here and now, I will end up blurting out something completely unrelated to the topic that solves a problem (mine or theirs), or they find profoundly wise.

    I do believe that I’m listening, just not to the conversation in the room.

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

      Fascinating.

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Yeah, one more weirdness solved. But it now makes sense as I don’t remember thinking about whatever it is that I end up blurting out. I’ve noticed that pattern in some of my meditation. I keep paper and pen at the ready, just in case I hear something I want to remember. There’s the same veil between the Source and whatever it is that I hear that happens with both. I’m actively working on lifting that veil in meditation in the desire for a direct connection, or at least enough memory for context. It always applies somewhere, sometimes farther down the road or for someone I find myself listening to. I’ll get there. 😀

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

    • Patrick Gannon

      My dad used to do this and it got worse as his dementia increased.

    • Jethro

      Oh my. Annie I do that too… bad news, everyone says I’m getting old. I’m going with your way of thinking. Hidden conversations with God… I like it.

      • Spiritual_Annie

        If age were the issue, I wouldn’t have had it happening since I was a teenager (at least). And, like most “God things,” it has a particular “feel” about it, like my premonitions do. It was just sitting in front of my nose and I didn’t see it for what it was. One of those “duh!” moments, y’know?

        • Jethro

          Me too, I lost a bit when I gave in to relieving emotional pains with alcohol. I disconnected myself you might say. I’ve been waking up/reconnecting though, very slowly.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I do understand. I was a problem drinker myself. When I went into therapy, I also joined an open AA meeting. I explained I was about to embark on dealing with my crap and knew I’d have the urge to run inside a bottle, but didn’t want to give myself permission to do so, and asked for their support.

            Of course, many assumed I was alcoholic but in denial until they got to know me. When they started asking me to speak, I was suddenly popular. Not only did I talk about why I drank, but how I walked right up to that line and peered over it, then quit just before I crossed it. I was the one that gave them permission to talk about emotional drinking and their own issues, the one that got away, and the one who’d say out loud that I was taking the whole “higher power” thing on faith.

            I’ve come a long way since then.

            Reconnecting slowly is perfectly OK. Baby steps are way better than standing still.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            I introduced myself as an alcoholic for several years. Turns out I wasn’t. But I went through a lot of rehab and eventually became a counselor. Plumbing pays better. but I learned a lot about myself.

  • Sam

    Ah, new day, new opportunities :)
    I would guess “Patrick Gannon” has quite a lot of spare time today as well (like nothing else to do).
    Yesterday I pointed him to this new column. He ran as fast as his frankenstein-legs could carry him. And now look, at all the “damage”. If this was a person, counting as one, we are talking some kind of disorder, an obsession. He really felt late for something, to always be the ever-present counterpart, in relentless length and no matter how nasty.
    But what explains it, is this being a team on a job, a task, or a mission (operating on several blogs).
    There you have it, one more piece of evidence in the pile :)

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Having him blocked, I’ve made it a point to say a little prayer for Patrick whenever I see “This user is blocked.” (He’s the only person I’ve ever felt a need to block on Disqus.) I was kept pretty darn busy praying yesterday. And chuckling because every time you refer to him as “Frankenstein,” I get a flashback of Gene Wilder in Young Frankenstein screaming, “It’s Franken-steen!”

      • Sam

        Lol, yes, I very much remember. What a good memory :)

        • Spiritual_Annie

          I love Mel Brooks’ movies. Blazing Saddles was our class’s movie my Senior year. (Yes, I’m that old!) Madeline Kahn was hilarious in both, especially when she sang. 😂

          Trivia question (bonus if you get both right): What did Madeline Kahn sing in each of those two movies?

          • Sam

            Damn, I even saw a documentary about “Blazing Saddles” not that many months ago, bringing back good memories, but what did she sing… Hmm, I am sure I could google it, but I be fair, and say I don’t remember, grrrr. Wasn’t she a pretty bad singer? :)

          • Spiritual_Annie

            In real life, she’s an incredible singer, but when she played the stage floozie Lilly von Schtupp in Blazing Saddles they had her sing “I’m So Tired” horribly, and with an awful German accent.

            She sang only briefly in Young Frankenstein as the fiancee of Dr. Frankenstein. “Oh, sweet mystery of life, at last I’ve found you!” When she slept with his “creation.” Which Terri Garr also sang later. 😀

          • babybleustardust

            I did not really finish Blazing Saddles. Does this make me a pagan, too :) I thought it was stupid as heck. Anyhoo, I do love Young Frankenstein. That was good, especially the singing :)

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I liked it when the horses would kick and whinny at the mere mention of the housekeeper’s name (which I can’t recall at the mo’).

            Aww, man! The ending of Blazing Saddles was funny as heck. You missed the best part. Yeah, it’s slapstick humor, but I was 17.

            I won’t even get into how many times I saw The Rocky Horror Picture Show, or who I went dressed as. 😂

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • babybleustardust

            oh god. Rocky Horror. I forgot about that one. Went to the really cool theater always. Chandeliers and marble, mirrors everywhere, balcony a renovated thing. The cool artsy picture shows. All the literarys there. How about Brother Where art thou? That was funny as heck. One I saw when I was in high school at the cool theater was the hobbit, but also Firestarter. Anybody see that one? I actually left that one before it began. Now I would sit right through it, just to see the ending. Opening scene was a bit much at that time, even for my high school bo. Of course, he always hunted Arrowheads and me following him in dirt field. We saw hobbit, his favorite. I was too good for that, to be really truthful. I was what my husband always called me “Hoity Toity.” You’re such a hoity toity. He always called me “Dory,” too, which means boat, not dingy but not cruiseship either, which is my natural bend :) My nickname for him? Mo. Why? Because of his haircut. poor guy. I was mean a little. Who calls anybody mo? But, he liked it then. I also called him my “hubcap” and my “rock.” What a rock, rock of gibralter never. Anyhoo, he is sweet to me now. go figure :)

          • Spiritual_Annie

            We had The Rocky Horror Picture Show at an older but updated theater, until Walgreens bought the building and converted it. Then it moved to the oldest theater in town, with chandeliers and red velvet and gold accents. Faithfully and lovingly restored, it became an historical landmark. They showed the movie faithfully every Saturday at midnight for years, but then it went to once a month. I wasn’t in town for the final showing, but Mama sent me all the press clippings. It was a freebie, and they hooked up speakers in the lobby and outside, guessing the crowd would be huge. It was. Dancing in the streets!

            O Brother, Where Art Thou is a gas! Never saw Firestarter, but read all of Tolkein’s “middle earth” books. Was afraid the movie wouldn’t do it justice. Don’t like it when a really good book gets poorly translated into a film. Then all I can focus on is what’s left out or new characters consolidating several from the book. An eidetic memory can ruin a movie made from a book I’ve read.

            One of my all-time faves is The Shawshank Redemption. I think that’s one of the first movies I loved Morgan Freeman in.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • babybleustardust

            Wow an eidetic memory. I had to look that one up. It is apparently a rare phenomenon, yet not as rare as what I witness with my memory that actualizes on literal rocks. I know from being in literature that the imagination is much grander than the real movie version. We usually add our own personal talent of creative bends to the mix when we read a grand book. I agree. My readings of great works of art are always better than a hollywood version.

            I have something where I can visualize a scene like a movie but then it actualizes as scrolls of numbers and letters, greek and hebrew, for example on a rock that I find, like literal numbers and letters. It’s kind of freaky to witness in physical life. Don’t know but I am sure it is rare and inexexplicable, just as a photographic memory is rare.

            Loved the Shawshank and Morgan Freeman. I met his double at a goodwill looking at a painting. Wow

            take care,

            M

          • Spiritual_Annie

            There are both blessings and curses to having an eidetic memory, which isn’t as strong as it used to be. It was great in school, especially after I learned to color-code my class notes. I could flip through my notebooks in my mind while taking tests. But, like most kids I just wanted to be normal, so I tried to hide it. I’d take a few notes in class, then at home I’d write out detailed diagrams and notes in my “real” notebooks. It was the lecture classes that I had to really pay attention in and hope they’d at least write major points on the board.

            Wow, seeing numbers and letters—I haven’t heard of that. It must be kinda freaky. Do you look up their meanings, or do you recognize them when you see them? I don’t know Greek or Hebrew except just a few characters. I studied numerology for a bit, but found it wasn’t all that accurate when applied personally, like astrology. Runes, on the other hand, were spot on for me. But that’s more an exchange of energy. More like tarot cards.

            Hope you’re having a wonder-filled flight today!

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • babybleustardust

            It is freaky. I am a bit of an alchemist. I have made a few rocks by hand. ONce from a plastic bead no less. I am not lying either. My favorite rock I made is from two cigarette butts, no less. I made two of those. Some of the letters are recognizably significant, like my birdthday on a rock, my loved one’s birthday on a rock or 333 222 444 555 I have seen all kinds of combinations such as these. LOts of things happen when we begin to se greek and hebrew scrolled on rocks that I create by tossing them. Did this a lot still carry my cigarette rocks to this day :) Have a good night 😉 weird but wonderful is what I call it 😉

          • Gross Prophet

            ‘…they’re always coming, und going, und going, und coming…and always too soon.’

            First time I saw Blazing Saddles, I was 17, had lived a sheltered life — and I don’t think I stopped laughing through the whole movie.

            ‘Anybody need more beans?’

          • Spiritual_Annie

            LOL… There are SO many good one-liners and scenes that still crack me up.

            “Candy Gram for Mongo! Candy Gram for Mongo!”

            “Yeah, but I shoot with this one…”

            The toll gate in the middle of nowhere…

            “Are we awake?” “I’m not sure. Are we… black?”

            How everyone in town has the last name of Johnson… including Howard, the Innkeeper…

            Crashing through the tribute to Hollywood musicals, with a young Dom DeLuise…

            Yeah, it was all silly, but as a teen, it was a riot.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

    • babybleustardust

      Alright, we are coming close to defining Patrick–a machine, a pagan machine. He’s a robot :) which explains his profession IT oh dear God. I am sure he is smiling. He is programmed that way. (grin)

      • Sam

        He has a machine like capacity, 4000 words each day, not rambling, from tending two blogs not his own. And have a life too? Whew :)

        • babybleustardust

          two blogs. damn I’ve got three plus facebook and a wingmaking room for study. That makes five. No wonder he’s got me beat with 4,000 words wow I better catch up. Those are angel numbers. I’m going for 4444 just to win. :)

    • Patrick Gannon

      Hmm. What makes more sense? Engaging in spirited philosophical debate or counting how many words another participant types?

      I probably typed twice that in business emails, and aside from an occasional post based on an ongoing feud with a priest who is upset that he’s having no luck pulling me back into the Church, there’s little going on there.

      Interesting info though. Yes, I was happy to hear of the new column. Somebody has to play the role of the loyal opposition. I’m happy to be of service.

      • Sam

        “Hmm. What makes more sense? Engaging in spirited philosophical debate or counting how many words another participant types?”

        Oh, I can do both. Don’t worry about it :)

        “I probably typed twice that in business emails, and aside from an occasional post based on an ongoing feud with a priest who is upset that he’s having no luck pulling me back into the Church, there’s little going on there.
        Interesting info though. Yes, I was happy to hear of the new column. Somebody has to play the role of the loyal opposition. I’m happy to be of service.”

        Hmm. Is this what you meant by spirited philosophical debate? Damn, and I just told babybleustardust that you didn’t ramble. My bad :)

        • Patrick Gannon

          You told her I don’t ramble? Well, that was a mistake! I’ve never claimed that I don’t ramble! I’m reminded of it frequently. Don’t get me started!

          Hey, we’re having a spirited philosophical debate – the same one we always have here. You believe something for which you have absolutely no compelling, objective evidence, yet claiming it to be true, and I’m insisting that you support your claim with said evidence. Just as in a discussion about Neale’s god, we have beliefs vs. evidence, with beliefs, as always, coming up short.

          • Sam

            “I’m reminded of it frequently. Don’t get me started!”

            I rather kill myself. Honestly :)

      • babybleustardust

        poor priest. Did you have a patron saint. Did you get baptized? I was and my saint was Luke, because I am wierd like that. I love Luke and Song of Solomon. Wow what a book. I was reading this today. Poetry. Wow it is pure poetry. Gazelles and frankensence and myrrh heck. How do you spell that. Okay. I am working my way through the bible and wingmaker materials simultaneously. Talk about quantum leap of word. Wow It’s fun. So Song of Solomon is a marriage of what a young man who refers to a young woman as treasure, a gazelle, but the word “treasure’ has biblical meaning of the word sister. Why is the biblical term for “treasure” sister? Wowwee that monad is sure spinning cycle after cycle looking not for a God particle but a lost Goddess particle. No wonder he’s messed up. He needs his True Mind. A sister, a brother, a wife, husband, mother, father God and Goddess. Which is he/she/it as a seed. what is the one seed that sprouted forth all life. Is it gendered at all? How it can it be life if it is androgyny. Alright, talk to you later. See if you can ramble as grand as me. I’ve got the crown that’ll spin you upside down and inside out and all around again and again on that account 😉

        • Jethro

          “See if you can ramble as grand as me. I’ve got the crown that’ll spin you upside down and inside out and all around again and again on that account” – (babybleustardust) Patrick feels I should do this as to not commit plagiarism.

          You are most certainly the queen the a king couldn’t touch in this area. Keep up the awesome work!!

          • babybleustardust

            Thanks for the crown. My smile is not upside down :) Now, I can get serious but so far we are trying to hold a conversation with God and Patrick doesn’t believe and he wants to tango with our converso. I am needing a taco myself. or mexican cafe au lait, okay :)

          • babybleustardust

            my feelings are hurt. plagiarize all you want. So far, nothing but nothing is new under the sun but I am here to prove that theory wrong, el capaso el speako no mexicano I guess I better start learning how to speak Spanish or Mexican Indian. I can’t wait to ride horse down the Mayan Cavern whew wee

  • Jethro

    Patrick has made the news as an imposter poster. The master debater, the arguer of arguers. The aggravation of the aggravated. A pain in the butt.

    Each and everyone of us has disagreed with Someone at sometime or another. we call another wrong or try to point out our personal thoughts, maybe just tweak the thoughts of another…a little. We as humans don’t like to believe we are wrong about something, so when someone calls us wrong or doesn’t agree, we defend ourselves to the fullest extent. We are not wrong because anybody says so, in turn, Patrick is not wrong just because somebody says so. He disagrees with some and some disagree back and vice versa.

    I’m not defending Patrick, or several Patricks, I’m pointing out a new way of thought for those who are upset by him, a new perspective. He’s a human being, even if he is several humans, it’s still a human typing. There is nothing you can do to change that. What any of us can do is change our own thoughts about him or anyone we choose to be angry with.

    One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself (positive or directive form).
    One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated (negative or prohibitive form).
    What you wish upon others, you wish upon yourself (empathic or responsive form).
    The Golden Rule differs from the maxim of reciprocity captured in do ut des—”I give so that you will give in return”—and is rather a unilateral moral commitment to the well-being of the other without the expectation of anything in return.
    The concept occurs in some form in nearly every religion and ethical tradition. It can also be explained from the perspectives of psychology, philosophy, sociology, human evolution, and economics. Psychologically, it involves a person empathizing with others. Philosophically, it involves a person perceiving their neighbor also as “I” or “self”. Sociologically, ‘love your neighbor as yourself’ is applicable between individuals, between groups, and also between individuals and groups. In evolution, “reciprocal altruism”, is seen as a distinctive advance in the capacity of human groups to survive and reproduce, as their exceptional brains demanded exceptionally long child-hoods and on-going provision and protection even beyond that of the immediate family. In economics, Richard Swift, referring to ideas from David Graeber, suggests that “without some kind of reciprocity society would no longer be able to exist.”

    How much time will we spend calling someone wrong while expecting that nobody will call us wrong? A conversation with God or did I just teach myself yet another lesson in humility?

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Jethro,

      I get where you’re coming from. I really do. I’m even into turning the other cheek and giving people the clothes off my back and loving my enemies, because it just feels right to me because All is One.

      However (I’m sure you saw that coming), after one turns the other cheek again and again, one has the right to love someone unconditionally—from a distance. One has the right to not be a doormat or an emotional punching bag. I had to learn that because I thought I was supposed to let anyone treat me any way they liked. I now know better.

      I feel I had two choices: block Patrick so he couldn’t pull me back in yet again (he knows what buttons to push, and does so intentionally), or leave. I decided I will not be driven from this site by a materialistic science zealot.

      This is one of the places I come to share myself fully and openly with many here that I consider to be more than mere acquaintances, whether or not we agree, which we sometimes don’t. But I don’t get called “wrong” by them, nor do I feel a need to say I’m “right.” There need be no winners or losers, no one who’s right or wrong, no one attacking or being attacked.

      We are all unique individuations of Divinity, so we have unique relationships with it—even the choice not to. But differences don’t have to mean divisions, and disagreements don’t have to become about who’s “wrong.” We’re all “right,” because what we’re expressing is right for us, personally.

      I’ve been speaking my own truth about the subject at hand. It may be no one else’s truth, and that’s OK. But it is my truth.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Jethro

        Annie, I’m not speaking to any individuals. I had a thought of my own and shared it. I went on a tangent with A True Friend and learned something about myself in the process. There is not a right way or a wrong way unless we decide to change ourselves because that’s what we see in ourselves. I make a choice to have a conversation with someone everytime I post to someone or respond. It’s my choice to invite further comment. I still have the choice to ignore everything beyond that. In Patricks shoes, Ignore what is said or don’t. He may continue to defend himself for entertainment or not. when He gets bored he will leave it alone.

        You are doing that which you must, as is Sam, as is Patrick… It’s ok. Could I have thought for myself my thoughts without this interaction? We have been blessed with an argument.

        • Patrick Gannon

          I wonder what Neale thinks about you all deciding to talk about me, instead of his ideas….

          You know, for a change – and with the exception of the god woo – his post on meditation and mindfulness very good, very useful, and supported by a lot of evidence. It’s “real” enough that the Marines, Navy Seals and some top end corporations are instituting these techniques to great advantage.

          Let’s see…. Sam will think this was written by PatProgram ver. 3.2a

          • Jethro

            It kind of matters what other people think even if we say it doesn’t. I would imagine he’s thinking the same thing as he was thinking when people got off on a tangent about me changing my name. Your presentations are going to tic somebody off now and then, I’m sure you understand that. If you’re going to saddle the horse, may as well ride it.

          • Patrick Gannon

            And I do!

          • Jethro

            Can’t argue that. I use to love the rodeo, I think I just outgrew it…. The real rodeo.

          • Kristen

            Sadist…rodeos are for sadists!
            Not ok!!!!!!!!?

          • Jethro

            Yeah, rodeos seem quite useless, don’t forget the masochists, full of those too.

          • babybleustardust

            kiwi, what is wrong with a rodeo. I wouldn’t mind being in one 😉

          • Kristen

            Me too, but its based on causing the suffering of animals, and thats never ok for entertainment.

          • Kristen

            But damn, cowboys are hot.

          • babybleustardust

            oh. I don’t kick ’em. I hug ’em. That horse that got mad and bucked me onto a tractor was ridden bareback all day. We went by the river. We had fun. He was just cranky but he loves me. He is not suffering just because I made him dance a little. My stepdad had to chase him down because he took off down ninevah all the way home. Wow what a speedy horse. Twin tornadoes about blew him away. My stepdad. Whew Have a good one.

          • Kristen

            I meant organised rodeos.
            When I had a rib xray a few years ago the radiologist asked what happened for so many old cracked ribs in my back, all healed but obvious.
            Ooops..got thrown from a horse onto my back on a concrete road as a teenager. Badly winded and in pain for weeks, but to me not bad enough to mention it to Mum, she’d make me see a doctor and be a drama queen.
            I can just remember being in bed as much as possible with electric blanket on and a sheepskin rug in my bed as I couldnt get comfortable, for weeks.
            Probably shoulda told Mum, that was one heck of a fall.
            Time before that on a horse i didnt see a tree branch, got one hell of a knock, cut and fall.
            She doesnt know about a disclocated knee or many of my childhood war wounds, but I did tell her when a car knocked me off my bike. I kind of had to when a day later I realised the graze on my knee was actually a 2cm deep gaping hole, and about 5cm round. She nearly fainted!
            I had some great childhood war wounds, still do.
            Xx

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I have adventurous wounds, too. The worst looking one is down the back of my right calf. I was jumping over the chain link fence in our yard when my sneaker slipped. Freaked out Mama, and that was hard to do! I forget how many stitches. Bled like crazy, though. Mama had to get me to leave it alone on the way to the emergency room because it was the first deep wound I could see, and I was fascinated. She wasn’t. Drove like a bat out of hell when she usually drove like an old lady.

            I hate getting x-rays, or CT’s, or MRI’s, or actually any test. Find out nearly half the time bones were broken or I had scars that led to some extremely awkward conversations with doctors. I mean, what do you say when the doc walks in and asks when your nose was broken? “Uh, gee, doc… Must’ve been when I was seven and my father beat me half to death.” (And that wasn’t the most awkward one.)

            I did fracture my wrist getting thrown off a horse. Never ride double with a single saddle. If you do, make sure you’re the one in front. Now, that one Mama had fun with. I’d been vacationing with family friends we’d known for years. I didn’t think it was that bad, and we’d iced it and put an ace bandage on it. My friend’s mom kept apologizing, and I told Mama that. She wanted x-rays just to be sure, and darned if I didn’t have a hairline fracture. Put me in a full forearm cast. When we got home, Mama said I should go visit my friend, and ask her mom for their lawyer’s and insurance info as a gag. Talk about freaking out! She got on the phone immediately, and Mama let her in on the joke. They laughed about it for years. That’s my Mama. Rather laugh than cry.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Kristen

            Ouch….the cut. I bet your friend was peeing herself, hilarious.
            Yip, wounds are fascinatingm the human body is. Mmmmmm,,,, now where did i hide that body I play autopsies on?

          • babybleustardust

            I have a few war scars, too many to mention. Once I was riding my bike in the middle of the high way, just a little girl on my blue looked like dorothy’s bike or was that witch. No dorothy has a bike with a basket and carried her dog. That’s what I did. I carried my dog who I named Puddles. She was solid black. Poor girl. Dumb big dog got her pregnant. Had to have a funeral for her. Died in labor. Lucky I didn’t get run over because my handle bars broke while I was in the middle riding the yellow line not holding on to any bars. The dog wasn’t in the basket then. But look no hands is what I did. You know. Had to be cool or it wasn’t me.

            My nearby became a real hit last year with a car, but prior to that I had a few close calls with cars. Once I was circling my grandma’s driveway and suddenly me? I lost control or the wheel did. At any rate, I fell and hoity toity here was so humiliated that I lied on the asphalt driveway. The bike was on me and I couldn’t believe I fell, so I sat there, began looking at clouds and trees. Suddenly a stranger pulled up. “Are you okay?” i scared him half to death. After that, I didn’t play drama in my real life ever. I was listening to the radio then to “The Night Chicago died. na na na na na brother what a fight it really was. Brother what a night it really was” and “Band on the run.” Also, “Good bye Michelle it’s hard to die. We had joy. We had fun. We had seasons in the sun. Good bye my love it’s hard to die.” Anyhoo, let’s see what else.

            Oh yea. a couple of times with a knife. I am that who loves watermelon. Okay I am a southerner. Nothing like a cold watermelon. Here I am in charge slicing the watermelon for everyone. What am I? four? with a big butcher knife sitting on grandpa’s grill. Oh god. Elvis’ house next door. Literally, I mean and suddenly the blade went into my thumb. Under my thumb da da da anyhoo, several stiches. That’s all. Oh yea. Same house. Sun was shining but the radio on in my hands I am singing and dancing and the dj said “There is a tornado coming in your area. Please seek shelter immediately,” and I began to alert the entire neighborhood. Suddenly, I am tripped by the long hall way and my grandma again rushing me to the er frantic just a few stiches in my chin chinny chin chin. Next up was let’s see. I am 25. Just broken up with tim. Back at grandma’s living like batchelorettes except for my uncle, who we babied. I am a good cook and made a homeade mushroom omelette with real butter, my favorite. Collelge still. Dear god. On my way out, i picked up a knife to cut his butter and damn who actually slices butter with a knife aimed at your thumb. Me. okay. 3 stitches is all I needed.

            Too many others to mention and I am here, just here. Have a good one 😉

          • Kristen

            Watermelon…the only food I can say I actually like. Yum. Actually, perhaps garlic and cheese grilled on toast, and sushi sometimes, but if Im not craving sushi it makes me heave. Smoked salmon with avocado, red capsicum and cream cheese sushi…white girl sushi!
            You sound like my close friend, she lives across the road from me on our little cul d sac, we moved there at the same time 14 years ago. Shes so accident prone, if theres a patch of mud, she finds it and falls over, her parents call her Becka the Wrecker, shes a walking disaster. Tjeres no way she’d be allowed to cut watermelon, and shes nearly 40.
            Im not accident prone thankfully, but I do wounds in style!! Or else its just pointless. Did break my ankle about 5 years ago, I was so impressed, my bruise was 18x12cm, hugely swollen, I was texting photos to friends and measuring it, it was impressive. Im still incerdibly proud. Opened the garage door and a heavy decking timber go cart fell on me. I was so impressed and fascinated I didnt go to the Dr or theyd cover my cool bruise with a cast, then a loser moonboot so I just wore UGG boots every. Went to the Dr after two weeks when it still looked like a swollen football, but it was healing well, crack right up my bone. Im not wearing a lamearse moonboot for anyone, hot pink light cast maybe, but moonboots? Sooooooo uncool!!
            The hilarious thing was for months my entire foot was purple and looked bruised, just gravity so all the bruise blood just pools in your foot. Dr told me he would prescribe hirodoid cream to make blood reabsorb, I freaked out, I thought he said hemmoroid cream so had to tell everyone what he said. What a dork!!
            Xx

          • babybleustardust

            I am not really accident prone per se :) I do stupid stuff like skating with a makeshift roller skate down a literal 2×4. Yeah. It looked like fun and yet 9 cervical spinal x rays later taught me quantum jump is easier. That and falling two years in a row on new years’ eve while skating at the exact same location. Decided to give up skating except in an alternate reality.where I am queen ice skater. It looks like so much fun, so graceful. Actually, dad’s nickname for me was always “grace.” He said my feet were bigger than my body when I was little and he thought I was going to be tall like him and yet they’re a size 7 and I am nothing like that never again do I give a rip. I like being 5’3 always except for my 5’2 1/2 side. Actually, I think it’s growing or evening out because I refuse to wear clunky tennis shoes though PT people keep getting on me “Those are not working. You need to wear shoes that are practical.” Not me. No. I am wearing black leather lace up gladiators always. They called these “Jesus’ shoes” and they’re cool not that myne grey minnetonkas and brown ones aren’t practical. The grey ones are like UGGs, comfortable but more practical looking. My grandma wouldn’t be caught dead in them or in my artsy birkenstocks. Whew I prefer lace ups now and leather tight with a heel. Won’t be caught dead in practical, just not me. They finally got over my tea cup here which is pure platinum and porcelain, handed down by my grandma Anyhoo, where were we. Damn never heard of that hemorroid cream stuff. What the heck is it. I once had a smiley bruise. It was just 2×2 cm, went away. LIterally it smiled. And, that’s about it for war scar. Why dad called me grace is well, it’s better than what he called my half brother which is retard. Dad. He feels guilty but truthfully he loved me. He calls me knucklehead and hard head. Why? because I am stubborn like him. Oh well. I digress too much. I am . .let’s see. Nothing’s fallen on me yet, save for that humungous car. I am a living miracle man. I can’t complain about war scars. I am getting ready to renovate New Mexico. They even have a miss rodeo show every year. It’s called New Mexico Rodeo show pagent. I’m too old but alternate realities man are here for me to live. The Hopi have to welcome the new kachina, the blue star is on the way and I am gonna ride a horse through that territory. I can’t wait. Alright, I’m drinking coffee gotta go. No pastries good here so it just isn’t good unless it’s homemade. I loved my own homeade cinnamon buns and chocolate eclairs mmmm bye Xx

          • babybleustardust

            I have a few war scars, too many to mention. Once I was riding my bike in the middle of the high way, just a little girl on my blue looked like dorothy’s bike. dorothy has a bike with a basket and carried her dog toto. That’s what I did. I carried my dog who I named Puddles all around. She was solid black. Poor girl. Dumb big dog got her pregnant. Had to have a funeral for her. Died in labor. Lucky I didn’t get run over but puddles wasn’t in the basket then. my handle bars broke while I was in the middle of the road riding the yellow line not holding on to any bars, just flying in the wind. look no hands is what I did. You know. Had to be cool or it wasn’t me. suddenly i am lying in the middle of the road with 5 oclock traffic. no scars but that was that.

            My nearby became a real hit last year with a real car hitting my entire right body. Prior to this I had a few close calls with cars. Once I was circling my grandma’s driveway and suddenly me? I lost control as i was speeding around the bend, barely missed a car parked of course At any rate, I fell and hoity toity here was so humiliated that I lied on the asphalt driveway in disbelief that i could fall ever. I thought I could fly on wheels. The bike was on me and I couldn’t believe I fell, so I sat there, began looking at clouds and trees. Suddenly a stranger pulled up. “Are you okay?” i scared him half to death. He thought I was dead or something. After that, my aunt drove up and over a loading dock. Couldn’t drive with her. Stupid negel.

            Other than that, I had a few belly flops and head torn apart when I head locked with the boys playing football :) at that time I was listening to “The Night Chicago died. na na na na na brother what a fight it really was. Brother what a night it really was” and “Band on the run.” “Good bye Michelle it’s hard to die. We had joy. We had fun. We had seasons in the sun. Good bye my love it’s hard to die.” I still love these songs. Billy don’t be a hero. Don’t be a fool with your life. blah blah blah Anyhoo, let’s see what else.

            Oh yea. a couple of times with a knife. I am that who loves watermelon. Okay I am a southerner. Nothing like a cold watermelon. Here I am in charge slicing the watermelon for everyone. kids only of course. What am I? four? with a big butcher knife sitting on grandpa’s built in brick grill. Oh god. Elvis’ house next door. Literally, I mean and suddenly the blade went into my thumb. Under my thumb da da da anyhoo, several stiches. That’s all. Oh yea. Same house. Sun was shining but the radio on in my hands I am singing and dancing and the dj says, “There is a tornado coming in your area. Please seek shelter immediately,” and I began to alert the entire household and neighborhood, screaming in fear—TORNADO is COMING!!! EVERYBODY TORNADO IS COMING!!!” Hey kansas ain’t seen nothing like a good ol’ southern twin tornado. Suddenly, I am tripped by the long hall way just skirting the bend and my grandma again rushing me to the er frantic out of her mind but just a few stiches in my chin chin chinny chin chin. It went away thank god. It was actually under the chin. No one could see it. Nothing like my sister who well, we were racing in the same house back and forth to the brick fireplace and the couch. She fell and got a big cut on her forehead, started passing out. Thank God for grandma who rushed her to the hospital. It’s a wonder my grandma survived. Of course, she had a maid–Annie. Good ol’ Annie. She could make the spiciest spagetti in Memphis. Nothing like it ever. Mmmm Next up was let’s see. I am 25. Just broken up with tim. Back at grandma’s living like batchelorettes except for my uncle, who we babied. I am a good cook and made a homeade mushroom omelette with real butter, my favorite. College still. Dear god. On my way out, i picked up a knife to cut his butter and damn who actually slices butter with a knife aimed at your thumb. Me. okay. 3 stitches is all I needed.

            Too many others to mention and I am here, just here. war scars and all and no visible scars. Have a good one 😉

          • babybleustardust

            ride ’em cowboy. Don’t let ’em throw you down. You’re the fastest cowboy in town :)

          • babybleustardust

            That horse bucked lol I once rode one and it really bucked. Of course, I had no saddle. It was me bareback and he was dancing and praying, literally. I was teaching him to pray with his front paws and he bucked the frig out of me onto a tractor and flew on high. Anyhoo, it matters. What idea, Patrick, should we talk about that you won’t buck :0) I’m just going to ride you bareback and teach you to dance and pray :) you better not buck me or I don’t know. Can a pagan dance :)

          • Jethro

            Pull high on the rains, settles ’em right down… Most of the time.

          • babybleustardust

            I’ll remember that next time I’m on a riding trail. I might be on one soon. I am travelling to New Mexico soon. Greg Braden is taking a tour of a canyon I just have to be at in October Wow Thanks for the tip :)

          • Sam

            Oh no, you are grumpy joe, all right :)

          • babybleustardust

            Hey Pagan, Patrick :) Please define “God woo” or is it lower case “god woo”? How do you woo a God or a god anyhoo? What about the Marines and Navy Seals. I’m a dolphin, man, and I would ride a unicorn but I prefer horses colorful, gold and silver with a touch of blue. Don’t know about the horn in the middle. I like plain horse that flys. I’m learning to fly by Tom Petty yeah yeah but I got wings and coming down is the hardest thing. So don’t get down, Patrick. Don’t let them steal your crown. Youre the crown of the Pagans. There you go :) I am kidding. Are you happy with your crown today :) You’re irreligious so you should be. Hi have a grand day anyhoo :)

          • Spiritual_Annie

            woo:
            wo͞o
            verb: woo; 3rd person present: woos; past tense: wooed; past participle: wooed; gerund or present participle: wooing

            try to gain the love of (someone, typically a woman), especially with a view to marriage.
            “he wooed her with quotes from Shakespeare”

            synonyms: romantically pursue, pursue, chase (after); More
            dated: court, pay court to, romance, seek the hand of, set one’s cap for/at, make love to
            “Richard wooed Joan all through their college years”

            seek the favor, support, or custom of.
            “pop stars are being wooed by film companies eager to sign them up”

            synonyms: seek, pursue, curry favor with, try to win, try to attract, try to cultivate
            “the party wooed voters with promises”
            (Google)
            _____________
            Well, lookee there! All along, he’s been trying to gain God’s love!

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • babybleustardust

            here is my definition to shakespeare. I am updoing shakespeare, literally. To be or not to be his idea of beauty is always in question. actually he has a poem that is so funny and always a favorite where he woos something not like the sun.

            Sonnet 130.

            “My mistress’ eyes are nothing like the sun
            coral is far more red than her lips red;
            if snow be white, why then her breasts are dun
            If hairs be wires, why then black wires grow on her head;
            I have seen roses damasked, red and white
            But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
            And in some perfumes is there more delight
            Than in the breath from my mistress reeks.
            I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
            that music hath a far more pleasing sound
            I grant I never saw a goddess go
            My mistress when she walks treads on the ground
            And yet by heaven I think my love as rare
            As any she belied with false compare.”

            by William Shakespeare

            Did I quote that right, Patrick? I don’t have my MLA book handy :)

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Jethro,

          I wasn’t taking it personally, as if you were writing about me or my actions. Not at all. I was merely replying to what you wrote, and my own thoughts and feelings.

          We all make choices about what to share, or not, and what to read, or not, and what to reply to, or not. I love most of the interaction here, and I’ve learned and grown from it.

          Everything’s a blessing, if one chooses to see it that way. 😀

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          • Jethro

            I didn’t think you did actually but wanted to make sure didn’t.

            Everything’s a blessing, if one chooses to see it that way…. SO TRUE!!

            I didn’t put quotations or give you credit… sorry. LSHMSFOAIDMT.

          • Jethro

            LSHMSFOAIDMT
            Laughing so hard my sombrero fell of and I dropped my taco…

          • Spiritual_Annie

            No worries. I don’t need quotations or credit when it’s there in plain view, in the post you’re replying to. I’m guessing from your side of the conversation that you’ve been called out on your (googled) attribution. I understood it.

            Sombrero? Maybe we should start calling you Jethrito. ROFLMAOAPIMP*

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

            *Rolling On Floor Laughing My *** Off, Almost Peed In My Pants

          • Jethro

            *Rolling On Floor Laughing My *** Off, Almost Peed In My Pants… That one belongs to my sister, and she always did pee her pants. My wife came up with another That deserves a giggle. SUISMSATMT = So Upset I Stomped My Sombrero And Threw My Taco.

      • Patrick Gannon

        Two choices – block me or leave. How about a third choice? How about some self control and discipline? If she lets me push her buttons, then is that my fault or her own? CwG would suggest that is her problem, not mine. If it feels better for her to blame me for her own weaknesses, that’s fine. Why does she spend so much time talking about me, even though she’s blocked me? Does anyone else find that odd?

    • Patrick Gannon

      ” A pain in the butt.” LOL. Mission accomplished!

      Jethro, I’ve told you that some of your posts appear to have been written by someone else. This comment is an example of where your post appears in part, to have largely been written by someone else. And it was – you pulled it from Wikipedia, and didn’t put quotes in the right place or acknowledge the correct source. This is why I thought you were someone else, several articles ago. The style and grammar changes to something more polished, and it seemed like it was being written by someone else – and it was. Buddy, to be honest, you need to put quotes around everything you cut/paste and acknowledge the source. You should have put quote marks starting at “One should treat others….” and ending quotes at …able to exist.”” (add a second quote mark). You plagiarized this entire thing without giving proper credit, right? Saying “(googled)” is insufficient. You must give credit to the source, or you are plagiarizing.

      Sam – where are you? It appears that Jethro is also more than one person! He’s also Mr. Wikipedia, and who knows who else! (grin)

      • Jethro

        What are you the grammar police. Pain in the butt! It’s only plagiarism if I try to take credit for it, I did not. i’m actually a little bit of everybody. Nothing anatomically grotesque though.

        • Patrick Gannon

          You passed it off as your own. You didn’t give credit to the source. Just saying you googled it, is insufficient. You copied material from another source and did not give proper credit. I could say I googled Neale’s copy of CwG in pdf format on the web, and then cut/paste a whole passage without giving him credit and that would be plagiarism, and he wouldn’t be happy about it.

          Don’t make excuses – just start giving proper credit. Do the right thing.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Would it be proper for me to drop something like this here, without giving attribution to the source? Suppose we’re discussing consciousness and I write this….

            In the five hundred years since the Reformation we’re experiencing another revolution in understanding how our nervous systems interact with our environment thanks to the expanding field of neuroscience. Impatient animals we are, some expect that all questions regarding biology not already answered must not exist, leaving the possibility of a ghost inside the machine wide open. Cognitive science is a relatively young discipline, however, and the progress made with the means at hand is already astounding.

            While the mechanisms of consciousness are not fully understood, one thing researchers agree on is that consciousness is body dependent. No body, no mind, and therefore not even a conception of a soul. It might be, as Daniel Dennett and others suggest, that consciousness is not created by a singular system in the brain or body, but rather is emergent: it arises from a series of small processes joining together in a unique fashion to create a larger phenomenon. This is born out in the numerous neurological diseases humans suffer, in which one link in the chain being thrown off creates its own unique circumstances.

            Whether or not the entire chain will be discovered is unknown. Yet explaining consciousness and feeling consciousness are separate phenomena, just as the way your brain contemplates itself is not a purely rational endeavor but unfolds over time through a series of physical sensations and intuitions.

            Now suppose I pick up the conversation, no quotes around the material above, and continue to discuss the nature of consciousness. Would I be plagiarising the author if I did not claim to have originated the content? You may recall Bruce the author dude – that’s what he did, and he tried to say that since he didn’t claim it as his own (and he stole from a famous astronaut!), that it wasn’t plagiarism. No. That’s unethical. That’s getting caught doing something wrong and trying to make an excuse for it. Is it only plagiarism, if you claim it’s your own? Aren’t you indirectly claiming it as your own through a failure to properly quote and source it? Sorry to be so adamant on this, but people deserve credit for their own work, even a source like Wikipedia.

            In this case, there should be a quote beginning with “In the five hundred…. and a closing quote at …sensations and intuitions.” The source is “Why Do Humans Still Believe in Souls?” Derek Beres, Big Think, May 4, 2017

            Derek’s writing style is not identical to my own, but I think I could have passed it off as my own if I had simply avoided quotes and not mentioned the source. I could have said I (googled) it. Would that have been the right thing to do? I certainly would have felt guilty about it.

            How can we have a useful global conversation if we can’t be honest? I’m direct, probably overly so, but it’s who I am, however, you can count on me not to intentionally lie. Which brings up a joke.

            What’s the difference between a used car salesperson and an IT (Information Tech) salesperson? Answer: The used car salesperson knows when they are lying!

            I walked out of a sales call with a new System Engineer one day after giving my usual spiel to a client, and on the way across the parking lot, he said, “You know it doesn’t really work like that, right?” I was astounded! It turned out I wasn’t too far off, but I had some detail wrong. So I know I can be wrong, and I’ll admit it when I am – but I’m not going to quote other people’s work without acknowledgment, and I would encourage everyone to do the same, and I’ll call you out on it when I see it. Yup – I’m a pain in the butt! Sorry Jethro.

          • Sam

            “How can we have a useful global conversation if we can’t be honest?”

            So tell me, 1) how many people are posting under this name you use “Patrick Gannon”? 2) Or/and how many people are working on what get posted under this name you use? 3) Is anything posted under this name you use,“Patrick Gannon”, the result of software working independently in any degree?

            I will hold anything and everything against you :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            You tell me. You made the claim. Where’s your evidence?

            You will “hold anything and everything against me”?

            Hmm is there any chance that “Sam” is short for Samantha, or something like that, and that you’re a beautiful, buxom redhead?

          • Sam

            Ok, “Honest Patrick”, I will give you one more chance to answer the questions properly. Or else it will be a never ending story, for why you won’t. And be on top of this blog all the time. So, just be done with it :)

          • Patrick Gannon

            “So tell me, 1) how many people are posting under this name you use “Patrick Gannon”? 2) Or/and how many people are working on what get posted under this name you use? 3) Is anything posted under this name you use,“Patrick Gannon”, the result of software working independently in any degree?”

            1. One. Me.
            2. One. Me.
            3. No. Unless you refer to the biological software in my brain.

            If you could prove otherwise, you’d have accepted my wager.

            I guess I can assume by your response that you aren’t Samantha the beautiful buxom redhead. Bummer.

          • Sam

            “1. One. Me.
            2. One. Me.
            3. No. Unless you refer to the biological software in my brain.”

            Ok. So noted and on record :)

            “I guess I can assume by your response that you aren’t Samantha the beautiful buxom redhead. Bummer.”

            Now Patrick, you can way better than this. Get some sleep :)

          • babybleustardust

            Sam has blonde hair, dummy, and so do I thanks to dye :0)

          • Kristen

            Mines red. But Im not Sam.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Mine’s purple, believe it or not. Actually, dark brown with deep purple undertones and violet highlights. Did it on a dare from Christie and liked it. She likes it, too. Told me so, from the Everywhereness.

          • Kristen

            Cool. Dares are good, forced confidence. Keep it purple.
            Mines been dyed reddy for probably 25 years. I think naturally its boring brown now or a bit gingery, was a sandy blond kid though and two kids are still blond.
            Actually, correction, probably getting grey now. I wont look.

          • babybleustardust

            I love purple and turquoise. I might blue before noon tomorrow. when I put this latest dye on it turned from ginger to blonde in a few minutes. no telling what it might be tomorrow when I sit in the sunlight :)

          • babybleustardust

            red’s oool. I used to put henna on myne and I liked it but as a kid I was blonde blonde so I sit in the sun with lemon, real lemon. It makes it blonde :)

          • Sam

            Almost right. This golden shine thing, it’s my halo :)

          • babybleustardust

            angels always angle a shiny halo near myne :) that’s why my hair turns golden in the sun. the dye i use on my hair is organic no chemicals or peroxide and is always all natural. shine away angel halo :)

          • Kristen

            Marko has the sandy blondy gingery hair, he had a pic up.

          • babybleustardust

            I know. Marko is gingery. Actually mine is more of a gingery caramely strawberry mix, a one of a kind, kind of like beyonce but the sun makes it lighter naturally. Last summer it was blonde blonde because I sat outside in the sun a lot :)

          • Jethro

            Patrick I expect you to be a pain in the butt. Your only a pain in mine if I allow it and in return. You have stated your desire to challenge and I accept that… I have fun with that.
            I get what your saying and You are correct, to a point. I didn’t give good source information but I did not pass it off as my own, I did not sign my name, fake or otherwise to it and had anybody given me praise or otherwise I would have stated it wasn’t mine.
            A certain part of my job is sales, but I don’t call it that because I’m not pushing anything, I give options for reasons of cost, and I’m honest about the benefits of each or the lack of. I quit a job that paid more than I like to think about because they wanted me to lie.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I know you didn’t intentionally set out to steal someone else’s content, and I understand how you believe you didn’t. I know you meant no harm and that you had no intention to defraud. That wasn’t the point.

            Consider a couple things – 1) I suspect Neale would lean towards my side in this discussion. He was caught plagiarizing a poem or short story or something years ago, and I’m sure he understands how important it is to properly source your content if it’s not your own. He gave all the same excuses. He didn’t mean it, it wasn’t intentional, he couldn’t remember where he first heard it, etc. etc. He learned a lesson that I bet he never forgot. You aren’t a world class author (that I know of) so that may not be so critical to you, but it is part of 2) your reputation. Several people have commented on your pearls of wisdom here. I have not, and am not interested in fact-checking those pearls, but there’s a question now… were they all truly yours? Surely so, but you’ve created doubt (with my help in pointing it out, of course). This is another reason to keep it squeaky clean and do it right. It’s good for you.

            You mentioned sales – my profession. All we have is our reputation. We have to maintain it if we are to be successful in the long term.

          • Jethro

            I’m aware of Neale’ misquote. I forgive him.

            Plagiarism is very much an issue as a substance abuse counselor. (or any profession relying on lectures). Especially when just getting started. If your going to memorize quotes and subjects, you better memorize the credits. I doubt very many things I have to say have never been said. I’ll have Annie check it out, she says she’s developed a list, then I’ll get back to you.

            “”I know you didn’t intentionally set out to steal someone else’s content, and I understand how you believe you didn’t. I know you meant no harm and that you had no intention to defraud.”” I know you know that and your being a pain in the butt (GRIN) I’ve been grinning about it most of the time. I believe you know I got the message the first time you wrote it. If it is found that I cannot be trusted by anyone then I will gladly click out of here. Feel free to check any of my statements against Google or a plagiarism finder. I’m giving information quite often and I seriously doubt Jethro will ever be convicted in a court of law as I’m not gaining any popularity or making money from my conversations hear. Now if anyone is going to use my words say in a book. Check it out, I may be untrustworthy!

            Aside from all that.. I never intend to commit plagiarism. I should probably learn how to spell it right first before I do it, spell correct has caught me every time on that one.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Makin’ a list, checkin’ it twice, gonna find out who’s naughty or nice…

            Maybe I shouldn’t use that. I haven’t googled it for proper attribution. 😉

            And you’d better not click outta here again. I’ll have to come find your butt to kick you in it!

          • Patrick Gannon

            With regard to copying Wikipedia content:

            “To re-distribute a text page in any form, provide credit to the authors either by including a) a hyperlink (where possible) or URL to the page or pages you are re-using, b) a hyperlink (where possible) or URL to an alternative, stable online copy which is freely accessible, which conforms with the license, and which provides credit to the authors in a manner equivalent to the credit given on this website, or c) a list of all authors. (Any list of authors may be filtered to exclude very small or irrelevant contributions.) This applies to text developed by the Wikipedia community. Text from external sources may attach additional attribution requirements to the work, which should be indicated on an article’s face or on its talk page. For example, a page may have a banner or other notation indicating that some or all of its content was originally published somewhere else. Where such notations are visible in the page itself, they should generally be preserved by re-users.”

            Source: Wikipedia: Reusing Wikipedia content

          • Kristen

            My God you’re boring.
            Are you actually like this in real life?

          • Patrick Gannon

            Yeah, so boring that people feel compelled to respond to me. I don’t understand it either.

          • Kristen

            Wow. Not really responding, and definately not combelled, just reading and chatting, bypassing the boring bits! Just pointing out an observation.
            Haha.
            But surely you cant be this boring in real life, with boring info?. Not humanly possible. Rhetorical.
            K

          • Sam

            So boring that it gets interesting how it is humanly possible :)

          • Kristen

            Cheers

          • Jethro

            Wow now that was nuclear, I’m with Kristen, that’s boring.. as I am fighting to not agree with you. Fine, you got me. I’ve got that whole Fred Sanford act going on too. hand over heart, falling stumbling back into my chair. Time to sulk. I’ll be over it by morning.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Fred Sanford! Yikes, that’s an oldie but a goodie, for mindless fun. Redd Foxx lived in St. Louis, where I’m from. He was a real pain in the butt, in person. Did you watch Chico and the Man, too? The Jefferson’s? All in the Family?

            My temporary roomie was watching the Beverly Hillbillies on YouTube yesterday. Thought of you. 😀

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            Yes, all the above, and Starskie and hutch, Welcome back carter too. Of course, the Beverly hillbillies, The Adams family, the Munsters, and Batman & robin. Get smart, mission impossible, Hogan’s heroes and Gilligan’s island. There was only 12 stations and silence between shows and commercials. TV stations signed off for the night and the color bar was time for bed on the weekends.

            hadn’t thought about that for a long time.
            Love and Blessings Always

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I remember when we got our first color TV, but we were like the last on the block to get one. I saw JFK’s funeral in black-and-white. 12 stations? We had six. And we had to cross the room to change channels. And, always at some point, we’d get out the tin foil for the tops of the rabbit ears.

            You left out F-Troop and McHale’s Navy. And there was the Dick van Dyke show, and Lost in Space, and My Favorite Martian. Red Skelton used to appear on the Ed Sullivan show regularly.

            Yikes, I’m old! When the heck did that happen?!??

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • babybleustardust

            damn. We always had three, including the fishing channel at 5 am, which wierdo here up at the crack of dawn always by five am. couldn’t stand to watch fishing too hoity toity to put a hook on a worm, a baby worm no. I don’t squish ’em. I don’t eat ’em. I don’t touch ’em :) so instead of fishing show here I am reading Streetcar Named Desire at 5 am, just to be hoity toity. My grandpa said I looked like mae west of all things but he knew I was big lips and well anyhoo smart. I impressed him one morning. Iva that girl is something. She is smart. Look at her at ten reading Tennesee Williams. She’s going to be something. He made red eye gravy, country ham and coffee mmmmm I love my grandpa. What a guy. Died at 52. Taught me how to blow my nose just before he died while taking me sledding Whew Can’t take the country out of the millionaire :) Rip Grandpa I am with you always hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I went to college in Iowa. One of the first things on the morning news was the Hog Report rather than the stock exchange.

          • babybleustardust

            lol if there’s one thing more boring than sitting all day with a fishing pole it’s watching someone fish. Actually, I kind of like fishing and just meditating but then what to do with the fish? Never could I eat it if I look at its eye so I throw it back, injured. It’s a crap shoot man. I like eating salmon but not fishing so much.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            You could always just skip putting bait on the hook, and not move it around much. Me, I like catching them, but gotta have somebody else do the gory stuff. But I’ll cook them once they’re cleaned.

            I never have understood catch-and-release. Why give the poor fish an injury if you’re gonna throw it right back in the water?

            At the last job I had, a bunch of the guys were into hunting and fishing. Every year there was an (unofficial—I worked for the gov’t) fish fry, and also an (unofficial) venison BBQ. Some of the guys even made their own sausage. Being German, sausage is a major food group. 😀

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • babybleustardust

            I am not a catch and release now. That was old life. I don’t try to catch them. I am more into communing in nature than capturing and releasing it. I don’t want to capture nature at all. I know. It’s really not about the worm, though when younger my boyfriend avid fisherman Canadian bound always put the worm on for me. I tended to sit in the canoe and get the thing caught in a tree hanging over our heads lol My ex is german. He loved sausage. I personally am mediteranean food lover and greek salad is more me. I love fishing but not really. It isn’t so much that but looking at them and then stabbing them with a hook is a turn off and then throwing them in a bucket, looking at them. Dear God. I can’t look at their eyes.. I once told a chef “I can’t eat tuna because I don’t want to eat a thing with eyes.” More and more I am not wanting meat these days.

            Love to you,
            M

          • Jethro

            My favorite Martian! Omg! My favorite show! Along with family Affair with Buffy and Jody. Gentle Ben. We had creature feature, Sesame Street and the electric company. Scooby doo, loony tunes, speed buggy, woody woodpecker, droopy, the original Mickey Mouse club w/Annette F., Popeye, and Tom slick… and Godzilla. The dark wasn’t afraid of chuck Norris yet, but night of the living dead was the scariest movie ever produced. The mummy, warewolf, and Dracula were on top. To you remember the claymation children’s show, monster party?

            Talk about the good ol’ days….
            I figured out I was old at 40, about ten years ago, it was weird, not scary. I had to admit I was balding and gray hair is everywhere. Mostly in my skunk striped goat-tee. It’s kinda cool actually!

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I figured out I was old when I hit 52, and realized I was older than my Mama when she passed. It’s really weird to live longer than a parent at only 52. Most of the women in my family live into their 80’s or 90’s, which might mean I still have another 25 or 30 years to go.

            I started getting silver hairs here and there when I was in my 30’s, but it’s not really noticeable. In fact, I’d prefer them because my brown hair is baby fine and straight, while the silvers are thick and wavy. I’d even be tempted to grow it long again. But for practical reasons, I keep it short. And for fun, I think I’m going to keep the hints of purple undertones. Keeps people guessing.

            Tom Slick! Omigawd. I was a Johnny Quest fan. But I did love Batman with all the *POW!* and *BLAM!* graphics. I remember Romper Room, where she’d look through her magic mirror and “see” her audience. Ahhh… Annette Funicello. Beach Party movies were my preference over monster movies. I saw The Fog once and had nightmares long after.

          • Jethro

            Johnny freakin quest.. and Hadji. shouldn’t forget bandit. I joke about the mirror all the time pointing out idiots to my wife. I know shame on me but I have to do it sometimes… especially in Walmart at the first of the month. Me watching the beach movies was my mothers doing. Pretty good too. Ive seen every monster movie ever produced until Friday the 13 appeared with 30 remakes and it became a fad. I quit those and concentrated on Merlin and king Arthur. Anything with a sword. It lead to a kitchen knife collection lol. only the best. in my opinion…

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I love the Merlin myths! Did you watch the more recent series on BBC? A young Merlin, quite the change from the usual. He’s Arthur’s man servant and hiding his magic until the last couple of episodes. Silly me, already knowing the ending, still sniffled a bit.

            Oh, how could I have forgotten Bandit? Of course, we skipped many of the animals, like talking horses and the pig on Green Acres, not to mention all the cartoon ones like Top Cat, the whole Warner Bros gang with Bugs Bunny, the whole Disney gang with Mickey and Minnie.

          • Jethro

            Everything gets a little choppy from the early 80’s on.

          • babybleustardust

            It’s not a movie but a literature that i love with King Arthur and the magic sword. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Arthur began there with Guinevere as a legend made up as heaven. What a great work!

          • babybleustardust

            Where did you and Annie live to get 12 and 6 channels. I always had 3 or five but never 6. Didn’t get 12 until the internet cable and all. Now heck I can see saudia arabia from my messenger wall on facebook, speaking of which I better check that wall. Take care, all :)

          • Jethro

            Well, I grew up in Bakersfield California. When we had cable, we had 12 channels. Otherwise we had 3, NBC, CBS, ABC. We were close enough to Los Angeles to get ktla if memory serves me. It’s rare that memory serves me so…

          • babybleustardust

            3 is all i remember and I am always rare. Memory is rare. The air is rare and misty indeed as rare Whew what an air of mist Goodnight. Sleep tight. I’m off to slumber land :)

          • Jethro

            :-)… goodnight.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I grew up in St. Louis. We had the three major networks, PBS, and two locals, one of which you had to have a special round antenna to get. We never had cable or satellite.

          • Jethro

            Yup, I’m over it.

          • babybleustardust

            Patrick,

            I know that blogging and internet chat is more lax and lenient on authors than let’s say a writer who speaks on a juried paper, juried by a panel of editors who know the subject well, so get over your bad self and be a little lenient on us. Did I get Shakespeare right below? I hope Shakespeare doesn’t mind if I left out a comma on blogdom land. It’s not like I am asking. I am printing his fifth best bed here on blog land. HIs wife got his second best bed. Hmmm nobody knows what that means still. It’s a quandary. maybe a divine dichotomy.

          • Patrick Gannon

            One would anticipate on a forum about spirituality, that ‘doing the right thing’ would be the greatest version/highest vision thing. Is it wrong to download music that you haven’t paid for in violation of copyright laws? People do it all the time. Does that make it right?

            Everyone talks here about changing themselves in order to change the world – Kumbaya and all that – but I suggest we do that by granting credit owed to sources copied, and I’m my old “bad self.” Well so be it. Maybe I’m sensitive to it because I’ve had content stolen; maybe I had it drummed into my head when I was in school that you don’t plagiarize other people’s work. Maybe I’ve seen other people lampooned and verbally destroyed on other blogs for using content without attribution. Policing each other can be an effective way to keep standards up.

          • babybleustardust

            Patrick, I apologize for saying “bad self.” I was teasing ad shouldn’t have been. I realize the importance of plagiarism. As a teacher, that’s big to teach. People do it for different reasons, some intentional and some not, but I am not here to judge. I just wanted to point out that with the invention of internet, there is a lot of leeway due to the casual and sometimes flippant jocular mannerisms. I won’t say a word about it anymore. Have agood day to all :)

          • Jethro

            pla·gia·rism ; the practice of taking someone else’s work or ideas and passing them off as one’s own. My source was google, I didn’t pass it off as my own. That’s about as right as your gonna get. If you are concerned enough, you know how to copy and paste my post back to a search engine and do your own search to find out if my source was credible enough for you. Nobody else seems to mind. You knew exactly what part was mine and what part I copied from Google. You must have taken some insult from my post this morning to be throwing such a fit and spending so much thought on my post. Few people care so much about me my friend.

          • Patrick Gannon

            You took someone else’s work and idea and passed it off as your own.

            This has nothing to do with any prior post. It has to do with doing the right thing. I’m amazed you won’t admit that you’re should properly quote and source material you take from others.

            Google is not the “source.” Google is how you found the source. You did not acknowledge the source. You plagiarized the source.

            It’s not a question of caring about you, it’s a question of self-policing and using peer pressure to keep us all honest. That others don’t mind is not the point. You love Neale’s messages, so tell me, is taking someone else’s work without quoting and sourcing, the grandest version of the greatest vision you hold of yourself?

          • Jethro

            the grandest version of the greatest vision I hold of myself. I was good with my post. I maintain, I did not claim it as my own.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I care a great deal about you! And I understood what parts of your post was yours and what was googled. We’re not in college, writing theses. I think your attribution was fine for posting a comment on a blog. I mean, are we all supposed to start putting sources for our dictionary definitions, too?

            You just keep being you and doing what you do because it’s you and we love you for you.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            Thank you Annie! Oh I won’t change anything. Patrick and I will surely have this conversation again:-) But he did present Wikipedia rules of credit. I have to recognize that. That’s the right thing to do. But change? it happens, but not likely in that manner.

            Love and Blessings Always

      • Sam

        Yeah, a painful grin there from grumpy joe :)

  • babybleustardust

    Hi everybody :)

    What’s the conversation of the day? Myne is I’m learning to fly. How about God is learning how to fly as a Goddess on high hi :) Hey Patrick, rock on with your pagan self. Let’s see what is a pagan? Well, I googled it. A pagan, other than a heathen, which is kind of mean, is irreligious, ungodly, idolatrous or ungodly idolotrous. I don’t know. I am just messing with you. You can add this to 3.22 verse, Patrick :) Love to All. I’m learning to fly. Oh yes. Here is the final definition of pagan, Patrick. “A person holding beliefs other than than the world’s main beliefs :) :) :)

    • Sam

      Sorry, babybleustardust, grumpy joe is on duty today, and he doesn’t understand you, as you know :)

      • babybleustardust

        I am not to understand, as you know :) grumpy joe what does he know :) he needs to . . .what did he say or didn’t he say. I haven’t scrolled yet. see ya :t)

        • Sam

          “I am not to understand, as you know :)”

          I understand your soul, and it checks out on top of the scale :)

          • babybleustardust

            Thank you, Sam. My soul is always at the top of all scales. Now for the rest of me :) is that a compliment or not. Mind, Body, Soul all in all in me is at the top. This I know for the bible tells me so. Little ones ah heck. Lelt it go. Thanks for the smile :)

          • Sam

            “Thank you, Sam. My soul is always at the top of all scales. Now for the rest of me :)”

            Oh my, girls :) Give them a compliment, and at once they want ten more. Whew, I am just a man :)

          • babybleustardust

            Good for you that I love men. Don’t take this wrong but I do. I am all woman, literally. Feminine Goddess here prefers moving and grooving as only feminine. God says I am all life but I prefer exchanging with only women not but only real men. I am not printing this to ask you out. This is something i am seriously working on at a hi soul level. I am all feminine and God has got to get over it. It may be at the highest Soul that I am androgynous. Am still trying to work it out. Please don’t think I am trying to pick you up. This is real. I am only feminine at a high juncture, a converging bottleneck point of high soul level just get over it Guy.:) hi HU it’s why I had to create a new galaxy not but a damn universe but I get it. I did seem to need a compliment. That’s alright. I am a little bigger than all tht but I did smile when I read your post. Thanks :)

          • Sam

            Wow, don’t take me wrong, but you take the phrase “women are complicated” to a whole new level :) And me being just this simple guy and all. Hmm. “Looking at yea”. Okay, bump into you later :)

          • babybleustardust

            I know. That’s why I spend way too much time talking to the soul. I gotta get out of here and get some sunshine, maybe a beer :) catch ya later :)

          • Kristen

            Hahaha, please leave women out of this one!

          • Sam

            Not entirely! :)

          • babybleustardust

            from a to z I am complexly simple and not even going to apologize to any simple guy or simply complex one at that. 😉

          • Sam

            Cool. I got it. And nicely put :)

  • Kristen

    Howdy folks,
    Just trying to catch up on the sitcom. Hope I have this right so far.
    Neale wakes up at some UnGodly hour, and makes it a Godly hour.
    Michelle/Babybluestardust is a flying dolphin, preparing for a big horse trek whkle practising flying.
    Annie has constant rain and will be underwater soon. I hope Biscuit the dog has a raft.
    Patrick Gower likes people to dislike him, now teaches karate encouraging parents to kick their kids butts, looks for his friend Jack and has a girlfriend, and is possibly multiple people. Possibly Patrick from Spongebob Squarepants.
    Sam is still Sam Sam Sam I Am with green eggs and ham.
    Jethro is a plumbing counsellor, and just being Roy this week.
    Kristen (me) thinks cowboys are hot but hates rodeos.
    There are possibly some quiet observers, but no ghost moderator, it seems.
    Whats the next chapter?…definately an under the sea setting, with Annie and Michelle, possibly encountering Patrick and Spongebob and seahorses. Biscuit could save everyone?

    • babybleustardust

      alright. seahorse. That’s me. I had a shell collection from the time I was little with a real seahorse. and real coral reef, not reefer, but reef. Wow anyhoo, nice summary of the latest on as the global turns. I know Neale has approached 700,000 clicks and I have 500,000 plus two always on me and that makes 700,000 so here I am and here we all are but who is clicking on here but me. Neale. Time for a new post. Let’s wake him up everybody. We know what time he arises for meditative hour. shhh it’s around five sometimes four am. He’s going to kill me now but he loves me, I hope :) syanara elcondito I ride to New Mexico on a real horse or a flying golden eagle pure yellow. I quantum dreamed him up actually it was a triarch family a new species like never seen before and that’s what I’m riding on my horse always. spongebob always me. I am spongebob. nobody gets spongebob not even that nerdy squirrel what’s her face. alright. Goodbye. that’s the latest as the globe turns.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Actually, Biscuit’s a pretty good swimmer, but he is a miniature Schnauzer so he’d have to save us one by one. I used to be, but that was 40 years ago. Fortunately, I’m a natural floater, so I won’t need a raft. When I used to go on float trips down the river, everyone else was in their canoes or inner tubes while I floated alongside, just going with the flow. And I’ll bet I wake earlier than Neale, though I don’t take an hour for my Holy Connection. Usually about 30 minutes, then I journal. Always writing, I am.

      Michelle is always flying, and I enjoy her journeys. Puts a smile on my face every time. Sam and Jethro and you do, too. 😀

      Cowboys are hot! But I don’t care for rodeos, either. Or circuses or zoos or safaris.

      I’ll bet Jethro would make for one heck of a good counselor. Down to earth. Humble. Kind as he can be, but strong, too. I don’t think I’d want to get on his bad side.

      You left out quiet Magic Marko, who doesn’t say much, but when he does, he can be quite profound. He must be trying to get back to the alternate reality where Trump didn’t become President. Wish I were there.

      There are quiet observers because I get upvotes from them from time to time. I’m not sure they appreciate our flights of fancy, or maybe they’re laughing their butts off behind the scenes. I prefer to imagine the latter.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Kristen

        Oops, Im sure Marko’s traumatised, but not in the sitcom that Im aware. Welcome to an update suggestion if he is though.
        My morning holy communion involves dragging myself out of bed after pressing snooze 4x at 8.15, after a straight 8 hour sleep, quickly getting ready, feeding cats, grabbing a coffee from Wild Bean on the 5 min drive to work then opening my shop at 9. Then drinking that coffee and loving every sip, saykng thank God for good coffee! Days off differ a bit, I would sleep 12 hours if I didnt drag myself out of bed…bed is heaven. Warm, cosy, thick feather duvet and pillows, nothing like bed!
        Get a lilo, you just never do know, Biscuit can tow you if you get tired or too cold in the big flood!
        Yip….cowboys are hot!! Nothing like a hot cowboy.

      • babybleustardust

        Thanks for the smile :) I try to fly and sometimes land a little wildly. I am learning how to skirt the galaxies in live time remotely but OEB is different, and I am aiming high. I like to drive really fast per se and just love that I create new ships, new species everywhere I go. Sometimes in an altrnate world, but I love driving fast and looking at the stars twinkle. My god tells me to land that ship instead of driving all night. He said more and more not less so I am attempting to out of body somewhere soon. Oh god. I hope I don’t land in this alternate place. I am landing on Elohim too much fire fire fire in the plane I was in last night wow it is a bit much for heaven they say just yet:) Love to all here :)

    • babybleustardust

      :) accordingly I am here to update. First Patrick does not have the last name “Gower” It is Gallan isn’t it or something like that :) Me? I am definitely a mermaid who invented a new species to woo the captain. In fact, I shrunk, like Alice and Wonderland, the captain himself, so I get to be big mermaid and he is in my pocket in a bottle with a lable to heaven that says “Do not open before nothing like Christmas. It is do not open radioactive likely” I am kidding. The captain is really a merman in my envisionment and I am the sea captainette or something like Captainess like tEss. I am Tess. I read that book. Oh dear God. Alright. definitely I am the sea, the ocean itself and I am a spalash at least. I intend to intend to land my ship in heaven. EAt tuna or not :) I ate egg foo yong mmm anyhoo, love to all :)

      • Kristen

        Update done, thanks!!!

  • Sam

    Rise and shine :)
    Yesterday was interesting. And I was right, the frankenstein-thing did really have a lot of spare time, and nothing better to do, at all.
    How grumpy joe turned on Jethro, and then all the way (a long way) at the end there to throw in an out of place sorry, was pretty revealing. This is a classic psychopath behavior. Which also raise the question, if grumpy joe indeed is an AI. He is very good with references, now also pointing back at me, morphed in, just like Kristen suggested. Very program-like indeed.
    From now on, grumpy joe, the fundamentalist, also will be referred to as ice cold joe, the psychopath. As it fits just as well.
    But then we have jovial joe, the old bulldog, to smooth things over. He is human, in every sense, and not very hard to get along with (and will do anything for a buck). Ice cold joe and jovial joe should really be using different accounts. To block out ice cold joe, the psychopath, would be no loss to anyone.
    So, if this really is a company, or whatever, testing out an AI on us, there could be an aftermath, if this ever comes out. Quite sueable. Turning loose a vicious “dog” on people like that. Annie especially would have a good case.
    And btw, there is no use engaging ice cold joe in any real debate, being a one-way street anyway, no one actually home, only making a fool out of you.
    Well, we’ll see how it all turns out, and a lot of fun ahead of us :)

    • Kristen

      Rise and shine? Damn, I was just getting ready for bed, 10.47pm on Fri night here. Oh well, Ill stay up.
      The name Joe means God will add, please no!!!!!!
      Debate??? Havnt seen one yet, just that one way street.
      Making a fool out of us??? Nope, havnt seen that either.
      Normal Joe has openly said I remind him of a sister that he tries to provoke, but her beliefs are too strong for her to even get involved! Guess Im off the hook.
      But yes, if you are right, if I was Annie I would sue. In NZ cyber and text bullying are imprisionable crimes, and personal or psychological abuse, including cyber, is punishable just like sexual or physical abuse. People kill themselves over people being really mean, thats never ok. AND we’re a country that can’t sue. But I do like your karma.
      Comments, retaliation or tit for tat are one thing, but everyone knows the human nature limitations of acceptability…..except NoJoe.
      Take care,
      K

      • Sam

        “Normal Joe has openly said I remind him of a sister that he tries to provoke, but her beliefs are too strong for her to even get involved! Guess Im off the hook.”

        Normal Joe (jovial joe) is quite okay. But he is only treading water, keeping things going, patching things up, before and after ice cold joe, the psychopath machine :)

        • Kristen

          One Joe acknowledged or very clearly implied some form of substance abuse earlier when you talked about if someone was high or similar, then reiterated it to you in the last statement in that comment, just if you missed it. I think he told you whats going on.
          K

          • Sam

            I see. And certainly jovial joe. Ice cold joe is on something much stronger, though, in my view :)

      • Sam

        “But I do like your karma.”

        Well, thank you. And right back at yea :)

    • Patrick Gannon

      Sueable? I’ve already offered you $10,000 to prove your claim. I’m like James Randi who offered a million dollars to anyone who could provide a real ESP, miracle, paranormal, etc. event. Nobody ever won the prize, though many tried. You aren’t going to win the $10K either, are you, Sam?

      I’m not too happy about the term “psychopath.” If you want to insinuate that some AI is psychopathic and generating me, that’s fine, but if you are personally insinuating that about me, the person behind this keyboard, then you are insulting me and this conversation is over with. I stop when the personal insults get to that point. There’s no sense in it, after that.

      • Sam

        “Sueable? I’ve already offered you $10,000 to prove your claim. I’m like James Randi who offered a million dollars to anyone who could provide a real ESP, miracle, paranormal, etc. event. Nobody ever won the prize, though many tried. You aren’t going to win the $10K either, are you, Sam?”

        $10,000 won’t cut it, to settle things, when that time comes. $10,000? You are truly a child :)

        “I’m not too happy about the term “psychopath.” If you want to insinuate that some AI is psychopathic and generating me, that’s fine, but if you are personally insinuating that about me, the person behind this keyboard, then you are insulting me and this conversation is over with. I stop when the personal insults get to that point. There’s no sense in it, after that.”

        Hilarious. The bully drawing a line, so he won’t start to cry. Don’t be obtuse, “Patrick Gannon” :)

        • Patrick Gannon

          Have it your way. I’m done. Bye.

          • Sam

            You are far from gone from this blog. See yea around :)

    • Spiritual_Annie

      This came to me via Alan Cohen’s daily inspiration:

      In order for you to insult me, I would first have to value your opinion.
      ~Source unknown

  • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

    “Do not have a thought regarding anyone, do not say a word regarding anyone, and do not do a thing regarding anyone that would you not want thought, said or done regarding you.” CwG 4 P. 104.”

    • Sam

      Everyone does their thing, and from that, we evolve. No right or wrong. Attack, defense, peace, war, hate, or love. Whatever we pick, and it was pretty much exactly what we had to do at that point, from where we came, and to where we are going; up the hill.

    • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

      Life has nothing to do with what you are doing, and everything to do with what you are being. Be careful not to get caught in the “doingness” of your life. That is not what you are here for. You are a sacred soul, and you came here to the earth to Be something. And not just one thing, but many things. The wonderful thing is, you get to choose what that is. And you get to do that right now. Always Right Now. So what do you choose to Be right now? Happy? Content? Safe? Peace? Forgiving? Compassionate? Love? Go ahead, choose. As many as you wish! -NDW

      • Sam

        “Life has nothing to do with what you are doing, and everything to do with what you are being.”

        I agree.

        “Be careful not to get caught in the “doingness” of your life.”

        Well, there is never any real danger, though.

        “That is not what you are here for.”

        Okay, but this possibility, to have as a goal and thought, is still been created for us to choose if we want to, and pretty much as expected.

        “You are a sacred soul, and you came here to the earth to Be something. And not just one thing, but many things. The wonderful thing is, you get to choose what that is. And you get to do that right now. Always Right Now. So what do you choose to Be right now? Happy? Content? Safe? Peace? Forgiving? Compassionate? Love? Go ahead, choose. As many as you wish!”

        Very good. Think positive—I won’t mess with it :)

      • Kristen

        My life is about what I am doing. Every part of it is some extension of me, has relevance and is a part of my story.
        Today is washing, washing, washing and more washing. Boring, and irrelevant? Nope…it means that as a person I do all my adult kids washing so they always have clean clothes and are free to do what they would rather be doing.
        I a billion percent disagree with Neales statement. Boring chores, work and everything is a huge part of peoples lives, a true reflection of THEM BEING.

  • Sam

    NDW: “That is not what you are here for.”

    “Okay, but this possibility, to have as a goal and thought, is still been created for us to choose if we want to, and pretty much as expected.”

    What a clever guy, who said that? Oh, it was me. Lol. Yeah, I knew it all along. Babybleustardust taught me how to toot my own horn—it’s great :) But all funny businesseseseses aside (Kristen, don’t you start!). This is serious.

    And quite a contrast, as this gets me sad, for real.

    “That is not what I am here for”..?

    So, there is something obviously wrong with me then, that I am doing something seriously wrong? How stupid of me. I must be a moron. Even a sinner? This brings back all kinds of bad memories of self-blame, making oneself feel small. And not just me. The same sea of sorrow all over. Way more overwhelming and powerful than the punchline of thinking positive.

    Whatever, and it is what anyone is here for. No right, wrong, or any kind of chance. Ergo, blame free. And guess what? We don’t have to think positive anymore, it comes automatically.

    I know, I took it out of context, and so forth. But as it was bugging me, making me sad even, I had to get it out of my system. To NDW, peace and love, you are the best regardless.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Sam,

      You are here to BE someone, at which you cannot fail because you already ARE someone—a unique individuation of Divinity, without which Creation would be incomplete. I like the way Barbara Marx Hubbard puts it (paraphrasing): Each of our Unique Selves is an instrument, and together we create a Unique Self symphony. If any instrument were missing, the symphony wouldn’t sound so sweet.

      BTW: To sin, in its original context, means simply to “miss the mark,” kinda like in archery where you aim but don’t hit the bullseye. No guilt attached, just take aim again and be your best.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Sam

        Perfect, and wonderful! :)

        Sin. Aha, that one too. So many innocent words turned into monsters over the years.

        • Kristen

          Sam, read my above reply to Annie.
          Christians and their lies should be shot.
          Xx

    • babybleustardust

      I taught you to toot your own horn.:) If I did this, I am grateful. I always do this, because, like I tell my students,not that you’re a student, but my literal classroom students, if you aren’t being you, who are you being :) So always be yourself, your true SelfSoulSong, your sweet SelfSoulSong all day and all night long, or who you are being is not you at all and that isn’t fun ever. Now, I just don’t understand where is the sin in being you. Forgive me, but I am always feminine and never so reticent as perhaps I should be :0) but why you feel sin is way over my head. Like the linda ronstadt song It’s cold as ice. Over my head. Or is that Linda? I can’t remember. Oh well. Love you :)

      • Sam

        I think you felt self-blame too, once or twice in your life. Usually, something we “inherit” from the parents. Intentionally or not. What you say? :)

        • babybleustardust

          of course :) humanity is that but no need to feel it or be it. You’re not it. As you said, you can’t really fail at this mirage of alife. We’re everywhere as love. What you say to that one :)

          • Sam

            I say, at last, you’re talking my language, in every sense. I don’t think it will last long, though, which makes me treasure this moment even more. High-five! :)

          • babybleustardust

            Is it a language of the heart and soul or a mind? what language of a heart and soul doesn’t last? I don’t know. I’m going for the soul–whatever it might be :) high five’s and deuce’s wild whatever hand we play in life :)

          • Sam

            I understand your soul, as said before, the level you are at, but your mind cannot all the time keep up. Well, at least how it translates to me :)

          • babybleustardust

            Translations are faulty for many strands are dividing always in a lightworker at a high level. Perhaps it is your mind that can’t keep up. Sorry to disillusion but I am not here to meet a soul at a mind level.

          • Sam

            Haha, as I said, it wouldn’t last long :) Hope you got that beer :)

          • babybleustardust

            Sam, what a quandary you appear to be. beer not needed. Thanks anyway :) not sure why the little mind (yours not myne) presumes not only that it met at my High Soul level, but that it knows my little mind and states “it can’t keep up.” You don’t appear to have met any high soul of myne. Those who do are a little kinder, I must say.. You might have met an imposter on the ride, but you’ll have take that ride up with your own mirror or contact Elohim yourself. That’s all I deal with at a high soul level. As far as a little mind goes, I can tell you straight up I don’t strive at an esp at any level other than God. Let me know when you reach that level. Many have tried that esp trip on me as some like to do with many. But, I have been ordered at a high call Soul Level to not meet like that. I don’t know. why you seem quixotic, but maybe you need the beer. Take care dear :) I might add that if there is something missing in a mirror, look in your own. :) for as the old saying goes, if there’s something wrong in life, look in the mirror. take care :)

          • Sam

            “High Soul level, but that it knows my little mind and states “it can’t keep up.””

            Like high from intoxication, and try to talk, making little sense, it’s the mind that can’t keep up. And for real too: The mind is smaller/dumber than the soul.
            Regardless type of high (if high enough), and the mind can’t keep up. Not your mind specifically, but by the law of nature. Don’t take it personally :)
            When you, in your own personal way, is high, any sensible interaction is made impossible. Because it’s too high, and beyond the capacity of your mind to be presented in a sensible way. As it would be for anyone, regardless. A phenomenon no one can bypass :)

          • babybleustardust

            “the mind is smaller/dumber than the soul”

            Not always.

            “Regardless type of high (if high enough), and the mind can’t keep up. Not your mind specifically, but by the law of nature. Dob’t take it personally.:)”

            I won’t take it personally unless you say it personally,and since you specifically addressed my mind, I took it personally. Nature has a way of resolving what is personal and what is naturally followed by Nature’s Law. :)

            As far as making it or not legible, that is for the High Soul. Call it Elohim :)

            Love to you :)

          • Sam

            “As far as making it or not legible, that is for the High Soul. Call it Elohim”

            Well, I think Elohim sometimes had a beer or two. But okay :)

          • babybleustardust

            yeah I know all about those beers and the spin the bottle and every other thing under the sun :)

    • Kristen

      Damn, I dont get to play. That makes me sad too, might even be what Im here for. Makes me feel like Im the kid left on the side when picking teams….or maybe a moron or sinner not allowed in Heaven. LOL.
      But I do have an important question though….is a businesseseseses where you have more than one business combined, are uber busy or just when morons or sinners have a stutter??? Im fine with being a moronic stuttering sinner.
      Yes…I recall the horn tooting thread! Hahahaha.
      Sorry, I know this is serious, but I read the last post from Michelle….when will you learn!!!!!!!!

      • Sam

        Haha. But businesseseseses? It’s when a business shoots up and act twice as big, in the state of battle, just like a cat, and making that weird sound too, just like the word. It’s all in the dictionary. Just ask Patrick, or his moron twin “it” :)

        I never learn. Too naive. This simple mind of mine. Grrrr. No task too huge :)

        • Kristen

          Aha….that secret conspiracy word, Ive heard about that. You must be CIA or something. Ive heard its never mentioned aloud, like the song Tribute To The Greatest Song In The World, just hints about it. Damn I love that song.
          Im not saying it aloud, I might spit or dribble, not cool, but I guess thats a part of secret words, there has to be a deterrant. I will write it in my dictionary though. With the refs in case Patrick ever sees it.
          Take care,
          K

          • Sam

            Funny you should speak of CIA, conspiracies, and secrets, just when I myself being diving into similar waters, for once. And now all sorted out and back to normal. But you have been on a little visit 😉

          • Kristen

            Yip, Ive visited a lot, but always kept my feet on the ground. Theres a great magazine, which is online as well, Uncensored…thats it’s name…haha, dad joke. Just in case you missed it ‘Uncensored..that’s “its” name’, just like your buddy, the “it”. IT it.
            Interesting, but I’m not sure who’s crazier, the people who contribute or those they write about. They talk so much about the conspiracy to create fear and make people paranoid, therefore submissive, yet they’re the ones so paranoid and fearful they write about it and try to open peoples eyes.
            I dont really believe in conspiracies at all, people do what they do publically, like trying to force vaccinations, chemtrails etc, so it cant really be conspiracies by default, its not secretive!
            Plus human nature is to only ever act where there is some form of personal gain, so if people want to govern or make $$$$$ then will do anything to attain that, whats new? Not conspiracies either. Ive yet to read about anything that I would define as a conspiracy. If I was a wealthy middle aged man Id probably be a Freemason or something, just for fun to make people paranoid I was up to something and fuel it…heck, Id just be there to laugh at overgrown boyscouts and for a free cookie!!
            Take care,
            K

        • babybleustardust

          Ahh I missed a thread. I know the word. It’s onomatapeia. However it is spelled. It means the word like tahootahoot toooohahoot your own whistle or crack pop crunch crackle and all that words that soundd like word but aren’t. When will you and Kristen or kirsten ever learn to be kind? bye

          • Sam

            What the… What is it now then? Women! :) Whatever it was, I’m sorry :)

          • babybleustardust

            nothing :) I thought you were asking about words that sounds like it is when you sound out the word. It’s called omonopeia I can’t spell it. That’s the meaning of that word like blot splat click clack. woosh swoosh tinkle quack buzz hiss splash. All of those are called onamonapia.

          • Sam

            I see :)

          • Kristen

            Im glad…Law of Attraction, see it works. Now Michelle has explained to you the language she often speaks in. Utopian Onamonapian. You asked, shes finally answered.
            You look at the ‘words’ she uses, and try to visualise what she is using her own words to explain. What she ‘sees’ dont have english words, so she makes them up or used a mix with ‘beyond Earth’ words, like myne, instead of mine. Look for the spelling changes she makes, then work out why. Using the word myne as an example, the change from the letter i to a y is easy…they are both words (I and WHY). Therefore what was hers, total ownership with the sub word I in it, is changed to the sub word WHY rather than I. Therefore in more advanced universal languages, where people may speak in code or tongues, she is a light worker, then it tells people like me, a translater, to ask WHY she is moving her ownership through the word MINE to something shared, yet still hers, as only one quarter, one letter, of the word has been altered or changed.
            Its all sub conscious and she possibly isnt aware of how it works as she just slips into it. Many beyond Earth dieties communicate visually with telepathic images that only good visualisers are able to translates, completely different to normal psychic images as they are often coded and take work to decipher. Or look at the properties of that image…her saying she was a dolphin refers to a caring psychic people liking person, aware of the dangers but still swimming in the sea of cosmic consciousness, and how she chose to feel that day, her mood! Unicorn means untouchable and just playing and obviously a lot more.

            Bet you wished you never asked now…why she often speaks in a way understandable to only her, or seemingly two weeks ago. I couldnt answer then as Michelle dismissed your question, but now shes explained it a little, I can go ahead!
            Ill get in trouble for this!!! Hahaha.

          • babybleustardust

            “what she sees dont have english words so she makes them up”

            The word “myne” is actually English. It is Old English. It is derived from german and the word “minnow.” I use it from time to time because Elohim uses it in my writing. It is a word that means “memory, thought, emotion, desire, feeling, affection, love.” This is why my books on True Twin use the term. Beyond Earth? Yea. Beyond beyond beyond that’/s where it came from. Chaucer.

          • Kristen

            Hi,
            The entire english language, and all languages are made up on the same basis, just as you do. Even one of the early CwG books stated the entity that channels to Neale struggles as there aren’t English words for what it wants to say.
            Yes, I know the word Myne, but also know how spontanious language works, incredibly complex, but fun.
            The word myne is one of the ‘secret’ words that give clues to the revered traits of the perfect human soul, which goes back to the ‘I’ changed to a ‘y or why’. You just told Sam the answer why you use it precisely…when mine becomes myne, a sharing word as it involves emotions received and given that include others. In Language Majic, a true Universal Law, we have downgraded ourselves as a species so it became a selfish word, differing to the original, so the spelling changed for common use, from a y to an i.
            Beyond Earth…..yip, where all language and the language gene came from.
            I just use the term beyond earth to define all and everything, its faster!!
            Take care,
            Xx

          • babybleustardust

            Hi,

            The words to say that come to any God to speak come naturally or not at all to some. I am that who call the code, read the code, interpret the code and break the code. I know all about the code being called throughout time immemorial, and even on this blog. Many read throughout all time and space. I read all languages and the actual imprint through all lettering in all time and space of every facet, including those at the shroud of turin itself. We live a living word of the souls moving through the lettering and thread and hair and tooth and anything through all life as first life or not. I am that who sees imprint on the code and that who strives to drive at devouring the energy through any meme, any anything that decries against the original intent of all living meme words living as Living Word. No. I know all about the “spontenaity” of words and their playful engagement throughout time and space, but my motive of intent far outweighs any who have malintent in any time and space. For the betterment of Christ is always my call, so I know the full meaning of the word myne. It is not merely about emotions. It is about a True Twin Heart and that is not a selfish heart, nor does it include emotions from others that include falsity. Why share falsity with any Christed Ones? These are sifted by me so I know every imprint in every leaf. It’s freaky to see a face in an actual leaf on a tree.

          • Kristen

            Hi ya. I agree with most.
            Hey, if you look online, google Uncensored magazine, there are two really good articles about the story of Adam and Eve, and Elohim. Im not sure if you use the word Elohim meaning the original Hebrew word as a plural, meaning Gods, rather than a singular God before Jehovah/YWHW split himself off as one God working alone. Sometimes I wonder if Y’shua is the incarnate of Adam, trying to reverse the tree incident. Not sure. But psychically I can tell theres something in there about red skin or red hair. Red hair is in my blood, which is why Ive dyed it red for probably 25years, it just feel right.
            Articles are in the lasest copy, and kind of how I view things, well sort of. I would be interested to hear your views if you have time or inclination to take a look.
            And hey, Sam is just a person, he has no ill intent and is just conversing in general, not being negative at all, hes said he likes you and this thread started with him complimenting you.
            Just read it all with a smile, like a face to face chat. Everyone is different.
            Smile.
            Xx

          • babybleustardust

            I am smiling and I am not here to say I am not, but don’t shine a negative angle at me that says I don’t work as light. What articles do you refer to? Can you give me the sum total of them here? I am referring to God. Elohim is a fragment as you mention, but he is always God in the highest. Elokim is the plural, which was referred to as being defied and done away with is my guide’s answer. There is one God of creation. That’s all I can say about Elohim.

          • babybleustardust

            I am referring to God from now on as just God. Elohim is God as we all can be. Elohim was and is God but his lines change day to day as some depart from the tree that blooded out just yesterday from an old dead tree from old bible times. We speak and know each other but God is a term I use from now on to refer to All Life.

          • Sam

            “Utopian Onamonapian. You asked, shes finally answered.
            You look at the ‘words’ she uses, and try to visualise what she is using her own words to explain. What she ‘sees’ dont have english words, so she makes them up or used a mix with ‘beyond Earth’ words, like myne, instead of mine. “

            Oh my, not my cup of tea, I’m afraid. Me and Michelle are opposite elements like that. I’m put on Earth to straighten things out. I very much appreciate when she makes sense to me though :)

          • babybleustardust

            Dear Sam,

            You certainly have a lot to learn about Earth. If you are just reading meme and now learning, you need to go back to square one. You don’t know me at all.

          • Sam

            Hmm, whatever that was :)

          • babybleustardust

            a Hmmm is for true bees that mix honey. I don’t mix with words like this:

            “me and Michelle are opposites. I am put on earth to straighten things out.”

            Sounds like, from your dream you posted about Patrick, you have a lot to work out. And, I am not here to judge. I am just noticing your vitriol at others, not inclusive am I in your idea that I am not here on Earth to “straighten things out.” Go jump up a level or ten million.

          • Sam

            Oops, this is a wasp nest, all right :)
            Like when I said the mind can’t keep up. It was just to point out to me a fact of life. Nothing remotely vitriol. How you take my good intentions is not my responsibility. Fact: You have your own made up language, which at its most “advanced” absolutely no one else understands. On an information wire that pretty much looks like a tangle, only causing problems for the best possible way of exchanging information. My natural state is to straighten out any tangle whenever I see one. From my view, your natural state is the opposite, having them made all the time in that capacity. So, there you have it :)

          • babybleustardust

            Sam, you don’t have a natural view of me but you have a view of your perception, which has no view of my Living Word. I don’t speak in a way you can access. Those here need to know there are those who know hahaha and hehehe and all that stuff is also a code that I do know all lines to and all lines from and I detangle the tangle that thinks you’re viewing my tangled web. Angels mingle to detangle and you are not hearing angelic music when you point fingers at those reflections that see so scary to you. Those are your reflections, not myne.

          • Sam

            Of which I am perfectly fine with :) I speak my mind, how I see it. And you speak yours. This is what we do here :)

          • Kristen

            Hahahahahahahaha.
            Just for the record, Im on Earth for physical etc as well, feet firmly on the ground. But not sent here, I was just born here cos my parents shagged and that baby got a new soul as Israelites bodies generally get new souls, not second hand ones, not reincarnated, this is my first life.
            These conversations are hilarious. Ill take the rap for this one, as well as the other one as well!

          • Sam

            “Ill take the rap for this one, as well as the other one as well!”

            Well, call it a break between life/lives 😉

          • babybleustardust

            agreed :) and as we work we sometimes disagree and that is just fine.

          • babybleustardust

            speaking of a wasp nest. Those are lines coming near the angelic being light. You might be viewing those negative aliens you thought you dreamed. Those aren’t myne. That’s your tangled web to weave out of existence. Wasps are real popouts for me. As are moths, ants and all kinds of animals like cats, dogs, people. I have seen all kinds of popouts, which means they pop in and out of planes they aren’t meant to be in. I break down those lines. Stop messing with fire you can’t handle.

          • Sam

            “Stop messing with fire you can’t handle.”

            Lol. I only solve puzzles. Pieces that fit together, making a bigger and clearer picture. I have no private dance with any of the pieces of a puzzle at all :)

          • babybleustardust

            From the dream you spoke of where you pointed at Patrick as the culprit, when it is your own consciousness travelling to where? it sounds like you have quite a big puzzle to work on.

          • Sam

            “babybleustardust
            From the dream you spoke of where you pointed at Patrick as the culprit, when it is your own consciousness travelling to where? it sounds like you have quite a big puzzle to work on.”

            No dream at all. Before sleep. A vision. Call it a state of meditation.

          • babybleustardust

            Sam, it’s still your view. A meditation is real or not, but it is still your dream to decode accurately. You are looking in a dark space using your contents and those are yours alone to decipher using your lens alone, not necessarily the lens through which All Life sees. It is those you think you see, but as God taught me in my first lesson Appearances are not always real.

          • Sam

            Dark space? :) You make me laugh again, babybleustardust :) You seem lost regarding your own experiences. But I am not :)

          • babybleustardust

            I would quote you from your post on the octopus that is “something else alright” though it is your travel dream. You dreamt it. It’s yours. That’s all I meant. You’re something else alright. You yourself said it is dark. I was only quoting what you said about your vision. My question now, since you spoke about it, is why do you think it is Patrick? Because Patrick is an atheist or agnostic or whatever and is scientific and logical and argumentative? Does that make it a conspiracy of the most treacherous kind known to mankind involving 9/11? Is this what you said. I recall this being what you said. If you said about that about me I might sue you for slander. Dear God. Talk about someone having a lawsuit. Why go there if to only point a finger at everyone else. Fix it. It’s why you’re there apparently.

          • Sam

            I don’t understand. Sorry :)

          • babybleustardust

            Not sure what you do not understand about common english. You made a strong allegation that patrick is involved somehow in 9/11 based on the fact that he is nitpicky or something, cares about quotes, argues a little too often. I don’t know but this doesn’t sound like a blogger of peace that you give here. i hope you find love and peace to give others in return for love :)

          • Sam

            “Not sure what you do not understand about common english.”

            Well, I do recognize when someone just wants to be in my face, having no other reason :) But then let’s talk about why you don’t mind little children (or older for that sake) to be treated with physical violence. Seems to me you struggle with compassion. Also, when regarding Anni. What do you say? :)

          • babybleustardust

            Regarding Annie? what do you mean?

          • Sam

            What do I mean? And you are not on something? I won’t tell. Try to find out for yourself, as the only one not knowing. Damn.

          • babybleustardust

            Sam, you’re right. I am the only one not knowing what you mean. Maybe Annie can tell me. I have no clue. You are viewing something definitely not me.

          • babybleustardust

            I am not in your face. You are in myne when you speak of my words to others like a gossip.

          • Sam

            Not only did you just admit it, but even gave it a reason :) You are acting like a child, throwing a fit, not getting your ice cream. Oh my.

          • babybleustardust

            I am no child asking for any ice cream from you. That is not my dream from you. You directly posted by my hand to God I AM my name. When you post to Michelle’s name, I respond. You spoke directly about me as if I didn’t read the writing on this blog. Speaking of which, this is supposedly a conversation with God wall. I might return later to see the next post by Neale. So far, this conversation has gone no where and is going no where, as far as I am concerned.

          • Sam

            “You directly posted by my hand to God I AM my name. When you post to Michelle’s name, I respond. You spoke directly about me as if I didn’t read the writing on this blog.”

            Even though still a bit far out from my standard, you at least try to explain me something. That is constructive. Something, in any case, to be appreciated. And how I am with you. To be in my face for the sake of being in my face is on the other hand destructive. Then the conversation will be about your lack of compassion, about this self-absorbed person, where personal high is all that matters—and nothing else.

            Btw gossip. You and Kristen did gossip about me (I don’t mind, Kristen) when I, at the time, was pretty much gone forever. And to the point where you said something like: “Wasn’t there a Sam on this blog?”. Which was the very line that brought me back, to confirm. So, blame yourself, Gossipgirl :)

          • babybleustardust

            Sam,

            I don’t take marching orders from you when I speak. You call me a “lack of compassion” if I respond to you when you are deliberately taking my words out of context and telling a lie as if I drew you to me some how? No. I did not. In that conversation, Kirsten, I think, so many were joking around about sitcoms and food fights, said I was Sam or confused me with you or insinuated I was attempting to confuse everyone by referring to me as Sam. God I Am called me Sam from Casablanca, from the book that was my favorite by Dr. Seuss, and from the show Bewitched, my favorite as a little girl. Never was I calling me you. I was really speaking a truth, a joke between God I AM and I. Why did I need to explain all of that and respond here? Because you called me here to say be compassionate and point out to you there is a need for you to discover why you are telling lies and taking my word out of context. Stop telling lies about me and then I will never post to you again.

          • Kristen

            Hi Michelle,
            Ive just seen this, its crazy. I thjnk I accidently started it explaining some of your language when Sam had previously been curious, and you dismissed his question as irrelevant, as well as possibly accidently dismissing him by saying ‘wasnt there a Sam on this blog?’ when you had spoken with him.
            Neither of you have ill intent, but this from a readers point of view is all clearly misunderstanding based, and as he said, you are speaking different languages and really not understanding eachother. You are difficult to understand sometimes, its a positive issue that Sam chose to try, and asked about things.
            There are so many people in the world that would just love strangers to want to talk to them or express curiosity about them, look at all the wierdos with fake facebook pages and their own blogs, just so people talk to them.
            Sam has nice energy, you know that, and this isnt like you at all, this isnt from a good place, I think the entire thing is misunderstandings. Sorry about my typos, this is really slow ton7ght and it wont let me go back and fix typos!
            Sorry to sound like Mom, but this isnt you Michelle, and Im confused, as well as concerned, but it may just be that you and Sam just clash and have zero in common.
            Xx

          • babybleustardust

            Kirsten,

            I am not happy with what I am seeing on the blog. No. You’re not my mom. No you’re not my Mom, You are a person I don’t know other than the blog here. That is all I know of Sam. At times, his energy feels good through his posts, but at other times he is in an attack mode and pointing a finger at me for merely saying in answer to I thought it was you who said something about my being called Sam of Casablanca by God I AM that it is an attempt to impersonate Sam of Green Eggs and Ham. Isn’t it crazy to go on. I don’t allow someone like Sam who is now accusing Patrick of being involved with 9/11 and what? He thinks he met me. He is crazy. No you’re concern for me dosn’t sound like you, Kirsten. You seemed lighthearted, which is why we engaged in all those silly sitcom chatters, isn’t it. I know all about the sitcom chatter mind and the score mind and all the aliens do too who witness this blog. I won’t be a party to Sam’s cyber bullying. I won’t ever meet Sam or anyone who is obviously feeling an energy field not Myne. Myne is a word that goes PREDAWN. That is my Word. I have to go.
            Talk to you later.

          • Kristen

            Im always concerned for you, you know that. You asked for my help over a year ago, but someone else took over going psycho, threatening me and making it clear that anyone who tries to help you will receive financial and other curses, reacting chronically when I tried with a protective pyramid around you, which was done by someone else not me, I just created it for them to take away and transfer to you. Which was taken down at your request as G… went completely pyscho. You stated you acknowledge Mother Mary as the motherhead, and Im sure that was passed on.
            You asked me not to try, or not to help, and Ive respected that, but that doesnt mean Im inhumane and unconcerned about you. You meaning Michelle the physical person, and no one or nothing else that you allow around you.
            Predawn is the word for Lucifer, the light of dawn, watch that one. And thats not an accusation, just what the word means in universal language, not a good choice of words.
            Just take care Michelle, you know this is all from a good place. I cant help, but I can be frustrated and care.
            Xx

          • Kristen

            Gossip? Nope, I would have just said Sam Sam green eggs and ham. I only talk about Patrick because he asked for a foodfight, BUT what on Earth is going on here. Ive just seen all of this, WTF??
            This is all crazy. I

          • Sam

            Crazy indeed. But then in a way good crazy. When turning on me, defending Patrick as well, she opened Pandora’s box, showing me exactly who she really is. Things seem to expose themselves easy around there, without me actually having to do much. I couldn’t be more pleased. Me and Michelle are all over, just like me and Patrick, as they are of the same kind; all fake. In an upcoming post, on top, I will spill the beans on Michelle, oh my, explaining Michelle’s role on this blog down to the very specifics. But first, some other business, and some good sleep. A lot of fun ahead of us, just like I said :)

          • babybleustardust

            I did not turn on you, Sam, nor did I defend Patrick. I don’t like being around cyberbullies. I don’t like bullies. I think you are accusing me directly of things you do not understand. You are witnessing a “vision.” I am not in your vision. Sorry. You got the wrong girl. I am aware of a negative HEB or alien species. It is watching the blog, but that is not me. I am not a party to anyone accusing me of such junk. You are crazy yourself to accuse anyone like me. I have actually been run over by a car by such fields of force. It is not a person. It is a field of force where they play. They target me because I AM I AM and I do work hard in bringing down these negative fields. That’s all I am saying ever. Please stop bullying me, and if it’s not a bully then why are you talking about me as if I am not here to respond to your accusations. I don’t like exchanging these dialogues, but if you attempt to bully me again, I will report this to Neale myself as this is not a place to engage in notes on experiences with ancient races of aliens. I don’t think Neale would like it.

          • Kristen

            Be careful. But youre right, there are so many gifted or psychic people in here thats ‘majic’ has kicked in. Quite rare to see, with everyone affected by it and in a role in some form, interesting, but people were warned when it all started with discussions about honesty and true identities. Like a veil lifting.
            Xxx

          • babybleustardust

            Who said I didn’t mind children being treated with violence. What are you on? You sure are not reading my view accurately. I actually worked ten long years for Justice for Children. YOu need to back off. I worked legal work for Justice that went all the way to the State Supreme Court. Do get your mind together.

          • Sam

            “Who said I didn’t mind children being treated with violence.”

            You did.

            Babybleustardust: “Not saying you’re an abuser, just different strokes for different folks ;)”

            You don’t mind at all. Even throwing in a smile and a wink. Disappointing.

          • babybleustardust

            Sam, that was a post to Patrick about him. You took my quote way out of context. I clearly stated I am against spanking. Never did I say I ever believed in child abuse. He was talking about corporal punishment in his own house. I personally never would condone that behavior. Wow what a contorted view. You don’t read the rest of what I said. You are way out of line here and way out of context. Personally, please stop posting to me at all. I came here to read about Conversations With God and not this shmuck kind of chatter.

          • babybleustardust

            I am not laughing, Sam. I am seriously saying you take everything to the lowest level of existence. You took a colloquial speech and turned it into a private dance? No one asked for a private dance with any puzzle piece, not my puzzle. Just to be clear with you. Wouldn’t want you to misinterpret any kind of lettering.

          • Sam

            It’s like you wrote nothing at all here, Michelle. It makes no sense to me.

  • Kristen

    Mmmmmmmmmmm Ive been schmoderated, the serious few including about sins, which was important. Clearly manual.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Is that why you tell Sam to refer to a reply to me, which I can’t find? I got a little confused about that and was going to ask, but then I saw this.

      • Kristen

        Yip. It was about the scripture difference between sins and crimes. I think there are about 15 sins listed, and are forgiveable and a part of religion only. Laws differ and are punishable and are for all. Was quite long but I cant retype it as its late, eyes are drooping and a cat is clawing me like they do before sleep so can hardly type….arm is trapped!!!
        Take care,
        K
        Xx

        • Spiritual_Annie

          I didn’t even get a notification on that one. I just checked.

  • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

    It just occurred to me that CwG book 4 “Awaken the Species” is not about awakening the species.

    It’s about awakening the individual more and, from that individuals expanded awakening, do they influence, model, example more to awaken others. From there, perhaps small groups emerge & perhaps later still larger groups, until it’s a natural process that the world collective will value awakening more, over being asleep.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Marko,

      Precisely put. That’s how I see it “dovetailing” with the previous books. I also see it as an extension of the Five Levels of Truth Telling, the last being to tell the truth to everyone all the time. We need to live it and, when asked, share it. Or if we’re on social media, share it to start more conversations.

      I’m encouraged that it says many of us are already awakened but don’t recognize it, so it’s a matter of moving from intellectualizing to living it. We can move from our internal beliefs and private practice to becoming magnets in our spheres of influence when others see how we express our grandest version of the greatest vision ever we hold about who we are. Who we all are.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

        I would agree!

  • Sam

    What I am about to tell you, is more fantastic than any fantasy could ever dream up. And therefore true. This revelation is not even remotely close to anything else I ever dealt with in my entire life. Something that normally couldn’t be further away from my everyday life and the direction of my mind. But there you are. This is something else all right. And it’s enormous. A gigantic “octopus” underground, of the darkest dark. Underground, both literally and figuratively.
    I’ve been a “zombie” for days, completely leaving my body, in search for the answer to this mystery on this blog. And from only grasping bits and pieces in the beginning, suddenly everything came to me last night. All the pieces, from all directions, floating together to the center, perfectly connecting, making out one crystal clear picture. A true moment of eureka, and my body all “electrified”. But what a dark picture it was. Very dark.
    This one piece, especially was bugging me for days, like knocking on my window, so to speak, for absolutely no reason at all, or so I thought. It irritated the life out of me, as I saw it as just interference and noise. I was like: “Get away from me!” But to my big surprise, it joined in with the overall picture, as it all came together yesterday. This disturbing piece, bugging me for days, is from 9/11.
    Every time going in depth and behind the scenes on “Project Patrick Gannon”, this disturbing piece was always there, on the side. So, in the end, I went with it, following it straight down into the ground to a vast underground facility. The headquarter of an organization of the darkest dark. This organization is in direct contact with bad aliens, on a daily basis, with the agenda to manipulate how the world develops.
    “Project Patrick Gannon”, is a stake out of Neale’s place. To monitor and to sabotage. Because of Neale being under the influence of good aliens. Their arch enemy. He is dangerous. And here they are, putting up a fight, in every way they can. And to do so in force, bringing a team: “Project Patrick Gannon”. With the use of advanced software and alien technology.

    This is the fight between good aliens “service to others” VS. the bad aliens “service to themselves”. Where the bad aliens join up with humans of the same mind. Those being selfish and egocentric. Which describes Patrick-everything-for-a-buck perfectly. But also when it comes to the overall philosophy, like we see defending even minor things like quotes fanatically and fiercely. It’s all about ownership and self-glory. And oneself put forward and up before anything and anyone else. They look down on others and want to rule us. Very much in line with the philosophy of Ayn Rand. No, I haven’t read anything from Neale’s last book (other than what’s being quoted here), but I would think it says similar things.
    Not in a million years I ever thought I be posting such a post. As my life only revolves around the research of spiritual truths. But this felt like destiny, actually, to have it out there, to make us aware.
    “Project Patrick Gannon” is one little tip of the coldest iceberg in the universe. Someone should melt it down.

    • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

      The answer is simple. Stop engaging him & move on.

      • Sam

        Yes. If everyone would.

        • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

          Well that’s their decision to make. For you, I’d suggest not engaging him anymore, and be done with it.

          I’m okay with engaging with him, but I’ve made most of my points to him & don’t know that I can add any more to him with out being repetitious.

          • Sam

            “For you I’d suggest not engaging him anymore.”

            Oh, my engagement with Patrick, and he with me, is pretty much over. Haven’t you paid attention? But I stay somewhat flexible. Static is never a good life situation or strategy. But thanks anyway :)

          • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

            No, have not paid a lot of attention, some yes, but mostly I don’t bother with unless it’s relevant to the topic of the blog, not personalities.

          • Sam

            Yep, I figured as much. Just like the captain of the ship. Solid and loyal, and steady as she goes. No nonsense. Which we need, and to be admired 99.99 % of the time. But sometimes there really is an iceberg straight ahead. Just saying :)
            But no worries. I said my piece. All sorted out, the final explanation put forward, and back to main course :)

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Sam,

      In CWG Book 4, there are references to two different kinds of what we would call “aliens.” There are those that exist within our physical universe on other planets, and there are those referred to as “interdimensional” beings who exist in dimensions or realities most of us cannot (yet) access.

      In both instances, there are said to be some who are interested in what happens here on our small blue planet. Like all civilizations, there are varieties. Some advanced civilizations have no propensity for violence and some do. The HEB’s that have been referred to in his books who are desiring to assist in our evolution are interdimensional beings who used to physically visit us, but the visitations caused such strong reactions that they no longer do so. They do, however, send thought energies our way.

      I used to watch the series Ancient Aliens with some interest but also with some skepticism, trying to find what rings true for me. I do believe that, as it’s said in Carl Sagan’s Contact, if there aren’t other intelligent life forms in our universe, that’s an awful lot of wasted space. On the show, there were episodes of UFO’s coming from outer space, USO’s that suddenly fly out of deep waters, and ancient Native stories of subterranean beings.

      Anything’s possible. I’m not a conspiracy theory buff, but was a fan of The X Files, and your experience is in line with their plotline of certain influential ​people cooperating with aliens. It might just be science fiction, but previous science fiction has become now everyday fact—things like telecommunicators (cell phones), lasers and phasers, for example.

      I don’t have the patience or the desire to stand up against Patrick’s nearly cut-and-paste repeated arguments that only objective evidence should be considered, that there’s no objective evidence for God and therefore no reason to believe in God, that subjective experiences can’t be trusted even with commonalities amongst many, that what he calls “Neale’s New Age God” needs to be done away with as much as the Abrahamic God’s, ad nauseum, much less his insulting characterizations of people of faith and people here.

      If you ​have the wherewithal to keep taking him on, more power to you. I will interject here and there to your posts as I always have, and wish you the best.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Patrick Gannon

        I’m not going to buy the book, so can someone tell me: Does Neale provide any evidence at all for these aliens (or HEBs)? Annie says she is skeptical when it comes to “Ancient Aliens” but she doesn’t seem very skeptical when it comes to Neale’s account. AA at least tries to incorporate evidence, though the convolution they need to go through reminds one of a Catholic theologian attempting to explain the trinity at times.

        I’ll agree that aliens are more likely than gods though….

        • Kristen

          Hi. Do you have any comments on what Sam had to say above? Just curious.
          K

          • Patrick Gannon

            No. It was all in good fun until Sam turned to personal insults. That’s the OFF switch for me.

          • Kristen

            Fun for you…..making it clear you dont believe a word anyone says, and discounting the experiences of others as a load of crock, lies, dementia, brain deception, mental health disorders, hallucinations, figments of their imagination etc is personal….YOU are the one that gets personal all the time, so you cant control peoples reactions. What YOU say are personal insults, you just cant see it, because you cant see past your own personal wall of science and the physical…your attitude is blocking everything else.
            Whats wrong with just saying ‘your experience differs to mine or what my personal beliefs are, for I only believe in proven science’ and leave it at that. You dont seem to understand what you do to people, not me, but clearly others. To tell people you basically think theh are lying about their own experiences is just you being mean, it serves no other purpose, and for your sake I certainly hope you dont do it in real life or face to face.
            Do unto others as you would have them do unto you….of course you would expect people to get personal, talk about you and be mean. Stock standard karma buddy! And Im doing it deliberately, you deserve it, once done, the entire situation is gone!
            Xx

          • Patrick Gannon

            I never said anyone lied about their subjective experiences. I said they have very little value as evidence.

          • Kristen

            They have 100% evidence, its been proven to them and something they have experienced…including God!!!!!!!
            You use every possible word other than the word lie.
            Its ok though, put out shite and youll get it back.
            Again, I win, you’re speaking as a normal person rather than a boring robot.
            And dont bother saying I havnt won, there is nothing to win….save time because you started a food fight so every hit counts, no matter what or where Im trying to hit, or what I use to throw.
            Haha, whats the score…me 20, you 0.

          • Patrick Gannon

            They have 100% evidence for themselves, but that evidence is practically useless for any independent evaluation of these phenomenon. If they don’t like me saying that – tough. Not my problem.

            You are saying “they” so I assume you don’t believe in NDE’s, OBEs, and other paranormal experiences, or do you? The only difference between us, is that I say so. It’s called a “global conversation.” I’m conversing. What value is your testimony suggesting that they believe their experiences are 100% true, when I’m pretty sure that you agree with me that these experiences are delusions. What experiences of yours have I challenged? I don’t recall that you’ve ever shared any of these psi experiences. Why aren’t you on my side in questioning them?

            If you think you’re winning some game, then good for you! Go buy yourself a brownie and celebrate.

          • Kristen

            I believe in the truth, no matter what it is. And that includes NDEs, OBEs and paranormal experiences, Ive experienced a lot. Also seen ‘ghosts’ and heard them including one yelling in my ear that was as clear as a person speaking physically, yet no one else heard. It was at a haunted house thing that a friend and I went to for fun. It was caught on tape heard later by the paranormal investigators, and hilarious, because he yelled ‘they dont know what theyre talking about’. I also heard footsteps upstairs, like a physical person that I assumed it was, until they said no one was up there, and others only heard it on the recording. It was actually a paranormal sceptics evening. Ive had a child spirit in my house, that I saw running, so clear I thought it was my son, and wondered why he ran from the ringing phone not answering it.
            I could have also been a medium, I could hear ‘guides’ and used to see images before things happened. Like my son with his arm in a cast a week before he broke it.
            Thats all a life I chose not to have, I prefer to be more a physical life and dont like or want any spirits or anything around me, they can influence a lot. God also forbids mediumship anyway, so you cant have that life, and God at the same time. People are kidding themselves if they think they can have both.
            But if they werent proven to me, I would still believe others when they speak of them, especially such high numbers.
            Take care,
            K

            Ill have that brownie now thanks, is the foodfight off?

          • Patrick Gannon

            Thank you again, for the on-topic response. You said you believe in the truth, no matter what it is; but how do we define truth? It’s such a slippery subject. Truth is defined as the quality or state of being true, or that which is in accordance with fact or reality – which implies compelling objective evidence, right? Otherwise how do we know for sure, if something is in accordance with fact and reality?

            The only “truth” we can all rely on, in my view, is the one that is supported by objective evidence. Subjective evidence does not meet the standard for determining that something is definitely true – and may suggest the opposite.

            I read a bi-monthly magazine called Skeptic, and they regularly check out these ghost things, and regularly debunk them – most are out and out frauds; others end up having natural explanations for them. If you only seek evidence that supports what you believe, you never see the evidence that debunks it. Using that term “debunk” in search terms, can yield a lot of really good information and is a good practice to get into, especially about things you believe. When someone presents an argument or idea I’m inclined to accept as true, I search with the “debunk” term and from time to time, what seems to be legitimate ends up being garbage or an outright scam. There’s a lot of pseudo-science out there that sounds really convincing till you dive into it.

            The question for any of the ghost people or anyone else who believes in miracles or the interactions of immaterial beings in our material world is – how does that happen? How does something immaterial affect the material world? The question has been asked for centuries – and the answer, as it turns out, is that the immaterial does not affect the material world, and if the immaterial exists, it is moot. It does not matter, and cannot participate here without breaking every single law of physics and overturning every single experiment ever run that supports the Standard Theory. Quantum field theory tells us the odds that all those experiments and the odds that the core theory is wrong, are exceptionally low – back to that likelihood of a pink polka-dotted dinosaur manifesting in your living room at 11PM this evening. QM says it could happen – but it also says – don’t wait up.

            You’re not going to believe the scientists who have confirmed this with decades of observation, experimentation and overwhelming objective evidence, right? Instead you are going to believe the subjective experiences of people like Annie? If Annie and a handful of other people say they experienced OBEs they must be true? What do you mean by “high numbers”? As a percentage of the population, these numbers are pretty low. You do know that we can manually manifest OBEs now, by stimulating the right part of the brain… it’s a brain thing, not a soul thing. To learn more, search out this article: “livescience out-of-body-illusion” You said you believe in the truth….

            You started off your post saying that “I believe in the truth, no matter what it is” but you finish by saying “But if they werent (sic) proven to me, I would still believe others when they speak of them, especially such high numbers.”

            Therein lies the gulf between us. I don’t trust my own subjective experiences, so why would I trust other people’s subjective experiences, and why should you or anyone else? If these paranormal events were real, we’d have amassed more than enough objective information to confirm them by now. Why isn’t the burden of proof on those who make the claims, when their claims fly in the face of everything we know to be “truth” about our natural world?

          • Patrick Gannon

            If you’re going to go off on a rampage, get your facts straight. I have never discounted the experience of others as “lies.” I have certainly questioned the reliability of subjective experiences and will continue to do so. These are all well-documented issues.

            I try very hard to avoid personal insults, but if one is insulted because I question their beliefs, that is their problem, not mine. If one feels insulted because their beliefs are questioned, it probably means those beliefs should be pulled out and examined closely.

            Why should I stop responding to the claims of others? I will stop responding to the claims of psi woo, NDEs, OBEs, and other subjective claims, when they are no longer claimed. If others are able to make those claims in this forum, then clearly, in a “global conversation” I, or anyone else, is on stable grounds in questioning those claims. Neale has never attempted to edit content here. If you don’t like it, all you have to do is skip my posts.

            Have I been rough on Annie? Yes, I have; but always in response to her going off on me first. Annie is upset that I don’t accept her psi experiences; yet Annie is not a good candidate to be taken seriously for such things, by her own admission. She tells everyone who comes here her sad sob story about child abuse, physical and mental health problems, sleep problems, and then suggests that her experiences should be taken seriously. I don’t take my own subjective experiences seriously, and I have none of those issues; so why would I take her experiences more seriously than my own; and why should anyone else? She’s not a good subject to be taken seriously when it comes to all this psi stuff. Marko and Mewabe are more believable, and I don’t trust their subjective experiences either. They don’t appear to be insulted; or if they are, they’ve managed to deal with it in a more adult fashion.

            I imagine that you refer to Annie when you talk about me hurting her. If in fact, my criticism of her subjective experiences “hurts” her, then she’s making my point for me. If that’s true, then I suggest she may have issues that disqualify her subjective experiences from serious contemplation – and if that hurts her feelings or your feelings, then deal with it. I’m not insulting anyone, not calling anyone a pathological liar or a psychopath, as I’ve been called on several occasions here. Obviously I wouldn’t talk about any of this personal stuff – her mental/physical health issues, but Annie is adamant about putting her story on the table for all to see and do with as they will. If a new person shows up and contributes on this forum, it’s only a matter of time before Annie will spill her sad story again. I’ve been here long enough to see this pattern. I’m sorry for her sad case, but it doesn’t endow her subjective experiences with any more credibility – indeed the opposite strikes me as true. I won’t accuse her of any more mental or physical health issues than what she parades here for all to see.

            I’ll reiterate that I have never told anyone here (to the best of my memory), that they were lying about any particular subjective experience. Why would I? Do people lie about having OBE’s? Maybe so; it hadn’t occurred to me. I’m more inclined to think the subject had some sort of mental experience that wasn’t real, rather than to suspect they made it all up – but since you mention it, that’s possible. However, if you are going to make the claim that I have said other people on this forum lied about their subjective experiences, then you need to dig through miles of archives to find evidence for that, because I have no such recollection and it wouldn’t be my default response. Yes, I question the veracity of those claims – I know too much about the brain to accept subjective evidence as very useful evidence. That does not mean that I think these people are lying about their experiences. if it’s “mean” to tell them that I give their subjective experiences little or no credibility, that’s tough. Deal with it. The science is on my side. I don’t Kumbaya.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Wow! You go, girl!

        • Jethro

          No, but you know that. All spirituality exists somewhere between the ears and a view inches above. It reminds me of Peter pan, “Second star to the right and straight on ’til morning.”…. I love that one!

      • Sam

        “If you ​have the wherewithal to keep taking him on, more power to you. I will interject here and there to your posts as I always have, and wish you the best.”

        I wouldn’t leave you alone with that thing. That would be heartless.
        At the moment they have tuned “Pat” all the way down to pouting mode. They are evaluating the situation. Lying somewhat low for a while. They are exposed, but won’t give up just like that. Too much time and money spent already. A shred of hope is all they need to keep it going.
        “Pat” was strong on copyrights. Just as expected, as being part of their job here, to defend and promote the selfish point of view, always.
        “Pat” had, so happens, a long conversation with a priest laying around, about Pascal’s wager. He pasted it in under your post on the matter. Only 1600 words! Hand on heart, after two lines and I, was asleep. I swear to you, like killing-yourself-boring :)
        But this is the selfish bunch; they are not that very deep or advanced, but altogether primitive. When quality is beyond their means, obviously, they think quantity would weigh up for it. They don’t understand better, those poor bastards. And just how they think regarding arms too, as a show of strength, when in fact it only reveals them as scared little babies shitting their pants. But, of course, beyond their capacity to grasp. Primitive and selfish is the same thing.

        • Spiritual_Annie

          I’m not surprised at what I gleaned from Jethro’s side of the conversation that Patrick got on him about attribution. He is a stickler for details and what he sees as proper.

          1600 words? Wow. And it was a reposting of an argument with a priest he’d already written? I must have picked up on that energetically, having actually said “nearly cut-and-paste” in my reply to you. Apparently some of it’s actual cut-and-paste.

          You’re not alone, either. I’m still here, I’ve just made the decision to change the way I interact (or don’t) with him. It’s about setting healthy boundaries for myself, not an indication of his somehow being right or my backing off of supporting those who oppose him.

          Personally, I’m enjoying my reading here much more now.

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          • Sam

            “Apparently some of it’s actual cut-and-paste.”

            Very much so. That’s how they operate. A vast database and software that reorganize, putting lines of general human feelings in between. Then the operator looks it over, have it personalized with a few more words, usually at the end, and off it goes.
            Any post of theirs, of some length, is put together in this way. Also being what people on other blogs has noticed.

    • Kristen

      Life is crazy huh?? Remember I said I will only speak with people personally, not when they speak like a robot or machine!!!!!!!!!! There have been quite a few in here, two ‘aliens’ most the time, plus often govt officials obverving as this site and Neale used to be incredibly anti government. One ‘non human’ in here sometimes speaks as a good guy, Im just glad they dont see me as a threat, they can be incredibly dangerous.
      Good on you for following your instincts rather than brushing it off.
      This is our life now…everyones life, and the internet is dangerous…’evil’ aliens are almost powered by electricity, they need to be around electronics a lot, the internet sustains them and is shocking, many many ‘good’ pages are the opposite, often with a dark background and white print, lots of religious etc sites have them. I have them all blocked at home, the kiddy block for religion, new age etc.
      Take care Sam Sam I Am

      • Sam

        Thank you for telling, Kristen. I’ve been kinda waiting for you to do so. I know you have the ability to sense things too.

        • Kristen

          Ive been a target before, on Neales old ‘book club’ The Spirit Forge, computer viruses etc and they blatantly lied about who were moderators, plus were prolific hackers and ‘snoops’.
          I actually think its all pointless but theres obviously a lot more to it than you and I would ever want to know, just ignore them, and him, let fools be fools.

          • Sam

            “I dont know the agenda though, or the point. Its a bit like a chase…Neales God is deceptive in implying its the same God as scripture, its definately not, so everything CwG is already misleading and lie based, then ones like Patricks It target Neales sites….another carriage on the train against the scripture God. So I dont actually see Neale as one of the good guys at all. Especially his lies telling people there are no consequences from above. Thats evil!”

            Bit like a chase? I wouldn’t say that. It’s easily explained. Well, how I see it anyway. You have a personal hang-up there I see, which brings out the temper :) Don’t bite my head off, ok? :) But that indicates something very subjective, something regarding very specifically you.
            One specific thorn is often the cause of such a view. And if it was to be “surgically” removed, the view would change. Well, again, how I see it anyway :)

          • Kristen

            Hey…it was all said with a smile…no issues or agenda, Im well over that, wouldnt be in here if I had issues! Lifes too short for issues. Ive told Neale that. I just think its dangerous and mean to tell people there are no consequences or judgements, no matter who tells people that.
            And zero temper unless someone tried to harm my kids.
            Xx

  • Spiritual_Annie

    I have been “off” in my mood today, but it didn’t strike me as to why until I read my midday news update. I probably saw reference to it yesterday, but ignored it.

    Today is the anniversary of the shooting at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando. In honor of those who passed over and those who loved them, and to honor my commitment to tell the truth to everyone about everything (which I recently referred to in a comment), I felt drawn here to say that this anniversary deeply saddens me.

    As a bisexual woman, I walk through this life knowing that there are people who would prefer to see me dead than in a relationship with another woman, regardless of what love we feel for each other. One of my exes is a female-to-male transman, and I know there are people who would prefer to see him dead than enter a man’s bathroom.

    It also strikes me that, during Pride Month and near the anniversary of the Orlando massacre, our President spoke at a religious gathering where he personally praised two men who are actively anti-gay, one of whom still promotes conversion therapy, which is nothing less than torture.

    So, I have this to say: Sexual orientation and gender identity are part of who we really are when we are born into this life. They’re not mental illnesses or birth defects of which we need to be cured. We are part of the vivid spectrum of humanity, in all its glorious expressions of Divinity.

    All we want are the same inalienable and legal rights and protections afforded anyone else. All we long for is the acceptance by family, friends and society, who can look beyond orientation and gender to see us as the fully human and Divine beings we truly are.

    All we want is for there to never have to be another Stonewall, or another Orlando.

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • Kristen

      Hi Annie,
      I’ll admit Im a trans phobe seriously, a phobia I have, as with any form of cross dressing, even a guy in a dress as a joke or with make up on. I seriously either have to fight back vomit, fight back flying into a rage or having a panic attack. I even struggle seeing females dressing masculine.
      It took me years to work out why, as it feels so mean and isn’t my business what people do. I finally worked out that lots of things freak me out…its my brain. With high functioning autism things are either black or white, if grey I have to work it out and sort it so I can move on mentally. My brain tells me girls are girls and look like girls, and boys are boys and look like boys, I cant process anything inbetween.
      Moving stumps freak me out…because its a thing on a body that should have other parts attached, yet Im fine with stumps until they move. My brain just cant ‘get it’ and my instincts are to run. Cant handle masks, balaclavas, those bald cats, hedgehogs with lost quills, elephant trunks, over flexible ‘rubber’ people, obese bodies where i can see rolls (extra body parts) and a lot! Its all visually like a foreign language that my brain completely rejects because conflicting information is already well and truly programmed in.
      Just telling you this because although its not my business, and are well aware orientations etc are not a choice, that there are possibly a lot of people like me that personally react for whatever reason, although wouldnt be mean, its kind of how we are made, just as others are made different as well.
      Take care,
      K

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Kirsten,

        I don’t have a problem with people who have reactions like yours, or even people who react because they’re encountering something new to them. I see it as akin to a child who stares or has questions they blurt out because they’re curious or don’t understand. It’s those who pass moral judgements, especially without informing themselves, that I take issue with.

        My ex wouldn’t ​be mistaken for a female anymore, and in fact his birth certificate and license have been changed to male, but he’s farther along in transitioning.

        I appreciate your honesty. We are all unique, and our reactions reflect that uniqueness.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Kristen

          No one would know my reactions, I dont stare or treat anyone any different, I just freak out internally.
          Xx

  • Spiritual_Annie

    I was going through my morning readings and found this interesting bit in an article written by Beth Singlar of the Faraday Institute for Science and Religion, published in Aeon’s online magazine:

    Blaise Pascal, the 17th-century French mathematician and theologian, proposed that, since we cannot know of the creator’s existence through human reason, we can only take a bet. If we choose to believe, and if God does in fact exist, then we receive eternal happiness, and a mere nothing if we are wrong. By contrast, if we choose to not believe, then we risk eternal damnation if God does in fact exist – and again, only nothingness if we are correct and he does not. So weighing the respective possibilities of eternal torment against eternal salvation, the best course of action is to act as if God is real, and either receive his blessings or nothing at all.

    Just food for thought…

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • Patrick Gannon

      I posted this response to a priest, just a few days ago, in response to his assertion of Pascal’s ridiculous wager. Some of this response will not be pertinent here as its specific to Catholicism, but the main points apply. Pascal’s wager most certainly does not apply to the New Age god and he would be appalled at any attempt to use it to prove any god but the Christian god. Further I fail to see any applicability here, given that Neale says his god told him that there is no such thing as eternal torment. Is Annie suggesting that eternal torment is real? Here’s my response to the priest:

      “Let’s talk about your Pascal Wager argument. You mention a 50/50 shot at success for a medication to save my friend. We don’t get anything like that with religion. Researchers have identified at least 3000 global gods and religions, and that doesn’t include the thousands of offspring from many of them, including the Catholic Church which has generated more offspring than a field full of rabbits going at it with all the gusto they can muster! We have a 1/3000 shot just for the major gods, not a 50/50 shot. There is exactly the same evidence for all of those gods – ZERO. Any one of them, one not included in the 3000, or none at all, might be the reality, and choosing the wrong one may result in the same punishment as choosing none at all; which might actually be rewarded, if one is supposed to use the tools one of the gods gave us. There are many more ways to choose the wrong god.
      .
      Pascal’s Wager is about total self-interest, maximizing personal gains. People are willing to hurt other people in order to maximize their self-interest, if they believe that this god wants them to do so. It implies that people who are completely evil, can be rewarded for believing the right thing. As you know, if you’ve ever actually read the entire bible, Yahweh commands his people to do all sorts of evil things – genocide, slavery, rape, etc. Surely it can be argued that it would be more moral to endure eternal punishment, than to obey a god’s command to hurt other people.
      .
      What about children who die before having to make this choice – what happens to them? In the Catholic Church, as long as they are baptized they go to heaven, right? (If they aren’t baptized, then they go to Hell – which confirms that the Catholic god is evil to begin with). If they go to heaven, then isn’t the prudent thing, to kill your children while they are young in order to ensure that they go to heaven? Isn’t that the most important thing one can do for one’s children to ensure their salvation?
      .
      Obviously if Yahweh-Jesus is willing to punish people for all eternity simply for failing to believe the right thing, this being cannot be “good” as we understand that word. Since no particular god has a monopoly on goodness, there’s no reason to assume that Yahweh-Jesus is the correct god. Indeed being in Hell might be preferable to being at the beck and call of an evil god!
      .
      As mentioned above, there are thousands of gods and religions and no more evidence for the Christian god than any other god. In fact, the Christian god insists that we only worship him, while other gods, are not so demanding. It might be better to worship all those other gods just a little bit, rather than worship just one god, a lot. That would certainly improve your odds that you selected the right god. Without any compelling, objective evidence for any of these gods, there is no way to know which one to select, so better to select as many as you can to improve your chances, and these other gods are not going to punish you for worshipping more than just one god.
      .
      Next we have the problem of a soul. There is, of course, no evidence for this, and for it to exist and to have the ability to affect the particles in our natural world, which it would have to do in order for “miracles” to occur, would mean that everything we have learned about physics is wrong, and every experiment ever performed somehow produced incorrect results. A 100 years ago, we couldn’t have said this with confidence, but today, we are very confident of this. But can an immaterial soul be hurt in Hell?
      .
      I confess to being unsure of the whole mechanics of heaven and hell. We have a soul – but it is a physical body that is to be tortured, right? Yet the physical body is being consumed by worms, or gone back to the elements following cremation. So Yahweh-Jesus has to give us a new body, specifically so he can torture it? So we can feel pain? Is that the way it works? And you think I should worship this god?
      .
      The real problem though is belief. I cannot turn a switch and suddenly say, “I believe in Marc Solomon’s god.” I know too much to just “change my mind,” no matter how much I might want to. Oh, I could say the words – is that enough – but presumably your god would know I’m lying. Most non-believers are stuck. They can’t just turn a switch and believe. I can’t just wake up one morning and say, “I believe in unicorns – pink polka-dotted unicorns, and I believe this with my heart, my soul and my mind.” That’s not any more possible than waking up and believing in your god.
      .
      How do we know heaven will be any better? After a few million years, the joy of heaven or the pain of Hell will eventually become, “Meh,” just another day in eternity.
      .
      Is your god an egomaniac? Pascal’s wager assumes your god will be impressed by people who believe things just to avoid Hell. What does an all-powerful god gain from such an allegiance from puny humans? It would be like having allegiance from ants to a human god, wouldn’t it? Isn’t your god at least as distant from me, as I am from ants? I have no egotistical need for the ants to worship me, but your god it seems, is very insecure and requires such allegiance.
      .
      How do we know that your god isn’t perverse, and wouldn’t just damn us to Hell for his own amusement? What do we have to ensure that doesn’t happen – that he isn’t just playing games with us, pulling our strings, hardening hearts, etc. (as he does in the bible). What if it turns out there are more than one god? Don’t you run the risk of antagonizing several other gods, by worshipping just one of them?
      .
      What if your god changes his mind? What if we believe the right thing, he lets us in, then says, “SNAP! Joke’s on you. Off to the burner you go!” How do we know he won’t do this? In the OT, he’s incredibly capricious.
      .
      What if your god is the one who inspired the Parable of the Talents, and he punishes those who bury their talents in the garden (talents such as intelligence, logic, critical thinking, skepticism, etc.). This is probably one of the strongest arguments for me. If there is a god, and if this god is good, then this god is going to want us to use the tools we evolved. I go along with Michael Shermer in saying to some god, if there turns out to be one: ”Lord, I did the best I could with the tools you granted me. You gave me a brain to think skeptically and I used it accordingly. You gave me the capacity to reason and I applied it to all claims, including that of your existence. You gave me a moral sense and I felt the pangs of guilt and the joys of pride for the bad and good things I chose to do. I tried to do unto others as I would have them do unto me, and although I fell far short of this ideal far too many times, I tried to apply your foundational principle whenever I could. Whatever the nature of your immortal and infinite spiritual essence actually is, as a mortal finite corporeal being I cannot possibly fathom it despite my best efforts, and so do with me what you will.”
      —Michael Shermer
      .
      I think I’ve pretty completely disassembled your Pascal Wager argument, and there’s much more if we are to get really esoteric. We can dig into Bayesian probabilities, etc., but I can’t see where Pascal’s wager offers any help at all.
      So which Hell am I going to? Where is it? And how will I experience pain?”

      I ask him that last question at the end of every post because he refuses to address the question of why the Church translated four very different words to the pagan word “Hell.”

      Pascal’s wager is pretty easily debunked, and there are some YouTube videos that do a much better job of it than I did. But again, the question… why bring up a Christian concept that involves an eternal torment in a forum about a god who has no such concept? Annie said she was raised Catholic, and it’s hard to get those neural paths wiped clean so they can be overwritten, as I am well aware. Are there some vestiges remaining…. and I’d address these points specifically to her, but as we know, she’s childishly blocked me, so I have to refer to her in third person.

      • Kristen

        Wow…..you just said ‘we have a soul’. Thats a turn around. Baby steps I guess.

        • Spiritual_Annie

          He did?!?? *passes out in shock*

          • Kristen

            I know…just when I was already in shock he has a girlfriend.
            I now believe in miracles.
            Xx

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Yeah, I chuckled at your reaction when I read it, about the girlfriend.

            So, Patrick’s made a believer out of you? Oh, he’ll hate hearing that one! 😉

          • Kristen

            Heck, he inspires me to be a Catholic….and thats my idea of hell!
            Maybe hes mastered reverse psychology….actually a Priest trying to drive us to church just to get away.
            Haha.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Are you enjoying your gossip? It’s so spiritual.

          • Kristen

            Hahaha, Ive told you how boring those long threads are.
            Gossip….nope. Just common old karma.
            Spiritual…nope, Ive never said that. I dont do new age stuff, dont meditate etc. Im a physical person more than anything.
            Xx

        • Patrick Gannon

          I did not say we have a soul. Why would you say that? Why would you intentionally misrepresent what I said? Don’t you abide by Jewish law: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour”

          I said, “Next we have the problem of a soul. There is, of course, no evidence for this, and for it to exist and to have the ability to affect the particles in our natural world, which it would have to do in order for “miracles” to occur, would mean that everything we have learned about physics is wrong, and every experiment ever performed somehow produced incorrect results.”

          I went on to speak of a hypothetical soul – the one that Annie’s post suggests will go to Hell if I don’t believe in the Christian God by taking Pascal’s Wager. I still can’t believe she posted that here, given that it is heretical to the New Spirituality religion she practices.

          • Kristen

            Your sentence states “we have a soul..but it is a physical body or something’ or similar.
            Hell is a state of mind, for which generally changes to our physical life are the catalysts for….most religions speak of it, and state the things that will result in this as a consequence. I havnt read what Annie said, but I think its great to inform anyone that its a real thing, nothing to do with Christians.
            Its in every teaching there is, even CwG and new age stuff. How often do people state ‘their life is hell, thats their idea of hell, they feel like shite, they are despondant, depressed when its not a brain depression etc.
            Its always a good thing to warn people and speak the truth, it happens constantly.

          • Patrick Gannon

            If you read my full post, you know I was speaking hypothetically and argumentatively to the priest.

          • Kristen

            Thats not your way or game…your way is to take things out of context and interpret things however you want. Your hands typed the words….own it!!
            Its too boring for me to read, Im at work, its not bedtime thanks, I need to stay awake.
            Remember you asked for a food fight a month or so ago, and I accepted the challenge. Pettiness, rotten eggs etc are all acceptable weapons.
            You’re so easy to beat.

          • Patrick Gannon

            i’m curious. Do you think Annie posted this so that people would talk about Pascal’s wager, or so they would talk about me?

            Can you provide an example of me taking something out of context and interpreting it as I want? Allow me to point out that, that is exactly what you did.

            You said my post was too boring to read, so you jumped to the conclusion that I was speaking literally after glancing at one sentence? Then you boldly accused me of believing something that I’ve made a point of repeatedly questioning in this forum, so that you could try to make me look bad, when an actual reading of my post would make it quite clear that I was speaking hypothetically about Church dogma. I absolutely do own that! You are the one taking a word out of context and misrepresenting it. That’s rather irresponsible, and completely unspiritual in my book. If you are unable to see that I was speaking hypothetically about the Catholic Church’s dogma on the soul, then once again I have overestimated an individual on this site.

            I am very open to spirited discussion and debate; but why can’t it be about the topic? I’m more popular than God here!!! I posted a rather thorough response to Annie’s “food for thought” (not sure what her motivation was, given that I would expect Pascal’s wager to be heretical in this forum). Jethro stuck to the subject, but you predictably turned me into the subject again, without commenting on Annie’s post or mine. Surely you must have an opinion.

            You are of Jewish roots, right? You don’t believe in Pascal’s Christian god or his Christian Hell, right? Do you believe we should believe in his god, as we have nothing to lose if we do so, and everything to lose if we don’t? That’s his proposal. I would find that hard to imagine, as you’ve indicated on several occasions here that Neale does not worship the right god, but has been taken in by a lesser god from among the hierarchy of gods and archons living in the firmament. Is that more or less correct?

            In your case we have at least three gods that come into consideration here. Neale’s god – which you clearly reject, the Christian god (Yahweh-Jesus), which you also reject, and your own god – the Soul God or whatever you call him. Pascal’s wager specifically applies to the Christian god and Pascal said there was a 50/50 chance he existed. It’s simple. If god exists and you believe, it’s all good. If his god doesn’t exist and you believe, you’ve lost nothing (except a lot of time bowing and scraping in church). On the other hand, if you don’t believe and his god exists, then off to the burners with you. If you don’t believe and he doesn’t exist, no loss. The best option, Pascal argues, is to choose to believe in god as you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Notwithstanding that belief is not something one can arbitrarily decide to choose, the logic breaks down as soon as we bring other gods into the mix. As we can see here, without even taking the Muslim, Hindu, Aztec and thousands of other gods into consideration, we have at best a 33 .3% chance of selecting the right god.

            Now Pascal would argue that you should pick the Christian god because Neale’s god does not have a Hell, and your god – well, probably not; some Jews think when you’re dead, you’re dead forever, and others think there will be a renewed garden paradise at the end of time, for those who did OK – though I never understood how anything could exist after the end of time, but we’ll leave that for another day. In any event, choosing the Christian god in this case means that one is picking their god out of fear of punishment, rather than from any feeling of love – and a god chosen out of fear, is probably one best avoided, given that god is defined as love by many religions – even if he’s the most unloving being imaginable! At least that’s my take. What’s yours? Can you talk about something other than me, or are you incapable of that kind of discussion? You’ve certainly managed to write vociferously and rather ferociously against Neale and his god a time or two here, How does Pascal’s wager apply to your god? Is it safer to believe in him, than not? Is he a punishing god? I suspect that you are on my side when it comes to Pascal’s wager – am I right? Ask Annie what her motivation was in posting this absurdity.

          • Jethro

            Your discussion with Kristen aside… Your description of “which god” is something I have wondered about since I learned of different religions and denominations. Who’s really going to heaven or hell. No sufficient explanation has ever been given. Every conversation I’ve ever had reverts back to choosing the side of safety. Believing in a certain God only to stay out of hell. I have never seen any joy or common sense in this approach.

            Do we not kill someone because we understand it’s wrong, or do we resist murdering someone because we are afraid of going to prison? Same difference to me. If we do not understand murder is wrong, we have learned nothing and there is definite room for growth. If you believe in a God just to stay out of hell, there is no purpose to believe, leaving much room for growth. Spend life with your own purpose, getting your own understanding. Unless of course your the type who follows people over the cliff only because they decided to go over the edge.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Great thoughts, Jethro. We are pretty confident from the archaeological record, that humans managed to live together without organized religions until the last few thousand years.

            What some researchers propose is that as communities grew, the ability of everyone to keep tabs on everyone else began to fall apart and an “authority” was needed to make sure the rules that everyone agreed on (because they were evolved traits), were carried out by a central authority – a god or gods, as represented by self-interested clergy. Religion didn’t play a huge role in human affairs till about 3000 years ago. Until then, humans got along just fine without it, and I think we’re finally starting to outgrow it. Religion is dying – almost dead – in Europe, particularly northern Europe, and there has not been any sort of drop in morality or human decency as a result. What we do see, is a new influx of religion (Muslims) and with it, the hostility and contention that the Abrahamic religions always seem to foster.

            I have friends who say that if they weren’t afraid of Hell, they would go out and do bad things. I think that’s nonsense and that they are deluding themselves out of fear, but if it was true, it would mean that they are basically bad people. I know they aren’t bad people, and wouldn’t go out and start killing folks if they came to understand that their belief in their god had no substance. When I dropped religion, I did not suddenly develop a desire to go out and murder, rape and rob, just because I no longer feared going to Hell. As a percentage of prison populations, atheists are lower than believers, so fear of Hell isn’t what prevents people from doing “bad” things.

            (I will confess that when I read the book and watched the movie “Angels and Demons” that I wished that antimatter bomb would destroy the Vatican! I would have given the book a different ending!) LOL

          • Jethro

            The threat of hell doesn’t ACTUALLY keep anyone from doing anything. At worst it’s what other people might think that stops them. Same reason we don’t throw our hand inside our pants for a good down deep butt scratchin’ while in public. For some, what other people think is the reason they even claim a belief in any particular God. Gotta stay with the status quo. There is a human aspect to all beliefs in any God of any religion. I agree that humans created a version of God to create control of the masses and it worked for a long time. Our current laws have destroyed the ability to keep that “God” control working, not to mention the rise in communication that has advertised and sold new spiritual beliefs that also have people looking beyond Christianity in America. People are not a God thing. God is a people thing and people keep changing God to benefit human consumption. The bible is written in such a way that anything can be made just or unjust with just the slightest change in perception. The rules of God are the product of what all humans agree to be Good and Bad. If we today go against God, we go to prison first, If we don’t go to prison we spend time with guilt and if we die with that guilt we go to hell. Enter the confessional. Anyway, here we are. As I stated a few conversations ago… God is our conscience and the common something. (give me something better than common something, please). Per the new book that Neale wrote, a feeling of wrong doing or right doing could be an interruption of an HEB giving us a message. The HEB, that which is in ourselves. We are the highly Evolved Beings that Neale discusses. In the same manor,
            We are the God as well. Between the ears, a few inches above. We are, therefore we are. We are the great we are. We is… Ebonics? We is the thought that is… Ebonics for sure. I am what am and that’s all that I am… Popeye.

            (All I need to do is drive to the next town to start having fantasies of guided missiles mounted to the front AND rear of my vehicle that at the very least can blow out tires. of course an EMP device has come to mind a few times as well. Actually wishing to kill, NO. removing there ability to be on the road, oh yes!)

          • Patrick Gannon

            I know people who are terrified of Hell. They think that’s what keeps them from doing bad things – even things that they know others will never know about, so I’m not sure that the threat of Hell has no effect, but it did not change my behavior when I lost that threat of Hell, so that’s a difficult point to understand. I didn’t continue to refrain from breaking laws because of Hell, I simply feel no compunction to go out and do those things, and would punish those who do. We don’t need Hell. We’re mostly good, and have become much less violent over the centuries.

            There is a cultural aspect to gods and religions – I’m not so convinced that it’s a human thing. Modern humans got along just fine without gods and religion for tens of thousands of years. When populations got to a certain point, religions seem to have arisen as a result of culture and society, more so than individual biological genetics, and certainly not as the result of any real gods.

            I get what you’re trying to do in redefining god as the thing that resides behind our eyeballs – but I don’t know if that’s helpful or not. Conscience is God. Life is God. All is God, Yahweh is God, Allah is God – it goes on and on forever. How many definitions can there be? People are always redefining god – that’s clearly what Neale does. He invents a new god, and with it a new religion, though he refuses to acknowledge that. You add yet another definition. God has become a useless word. It has no exact meaning any longer. You almost have to write an essay explaining what you mean by the word “god” before you can launch into a discussion about it.

            No ebonics. Please – no ebonics. (American black English regarded as a language in its own right rather than as a dialect of standard English.) To unite the world we need fewer languages, not more.

            As for the automobile rocket launcher – perhaps we should start a business…. I’m a decent sales rep – there’s a huge market, we could get rich!

          • Jethro

            Yes, If I use myself as an example there was a lot of fear of hell and it didn’t always stop me because of that whole human thing, but I was certainly in search of forgiveness from God. Now if I harm someone, their forgiveness is important. If I find I’m in the wrong that is. Hell was originally an idea given to the people not to fear, but for people to believe another would be judged and punished, therefore we wouldn’t have to have vengeance here on earth. A peace keeping idea so to speak. Why harm yourself with vengeance if an offender was going to hell for wrong doing. We would have to live with the memory of being harmful to someone otherwise. But some stubborn folks decided they couldn’t wait for that and sent the offenders to hell or so they believed.

            I’m not redefining God, I’m searching for the origin of the human idea of God, or how to at least explain (if only to myself) my perspective of God as I was taught to understand God.

            My children spoke a lot of ebonics sounding phrases as children. I’m not prejudice but I have my opinions about ebonics. my father grew up speaking “ebonics” and that’s all I will say about it. I made a little fun about it. “To unite the world we need fewer languages, not more.”… Agreed!

            The rocket launcher is already on helicopters with retinal guidance. The military would cancel out the patent. Then there’s that part where it gets used on me some day while in a moment of confusion which occurs more often as I get older. Maybe I should just learn to calm down when traffic doesn’t do what I think it should… yeah right!! I’ll just keep yelling at my windshield and die poor until further notice.

          • Patrick Gannon

            You suggestion of how Hell evolved, makes sense. I think Christians don’t really believe in either heaven or Hell. If they believed in heaven they wouldn’t spend every last cent they have trying to stay alive one more day. If they believed in Hell, they wouldn’t feel the need to exercise vengeance and retribution on those they deem to be sinners.

            I think the origin of the idea for god was simply to put a face, an anthropomorphic face, on the unknown, so as to have an explanation for all the things they didn’t know then, but which of course, we know today. Then one tribe’s god became a little different from another tribe’s god, and the structure began to build from there.

            I’m not prejudiced either, but if I was in human resources, I would hire people who can speak proper English to the company’s clients. You can’t really annoy a customer if you speak proper English, but you certainly face the possibility of doing so if your employee speaks Ebonics, so why take the chance? Speaking Ebonics is a way of reducing your job prospects. Why would any intelligent person do that?

            As for the rocket launcher, there are some females in my life who would mount that on their vehicles in a heartbeat! As for me, I learned mindfulness meditation, and seldom get bent out of shape in traffic these days, like I used to.

          • Jethro

            We are in agreement yet again. Your statement about Christians also makes sense. “If they believed in heaven they wouldn’t spend every last cent they have trying to stay alive one more day. If they believed in Hell, they wouldn’t feel the need to exercise vengeance and retribution on those they deem to be sinners.” I’m going to work that into a conversation out here in my three dimensional space one way or another. Might even mention it to a preacher. somebody needs to spread that message to the congregation. If your going to believe in God, Believe in God right and there’s no need to worry about the right God. Too many people hording vengeance when vengeance isn’t theirs to have. The Bible tells them that. Oh wait, eye for an eye and all that other crap. Nevermind.

            I’m sure God was a simple idea in the beginning, but the smart folks seen how they could manipulate the tribe with God and politics were born.

            I can’t help it… Ebonics is a strange desire to hang on to early American uneducated English. A now backwoods type of speech that is only practiced in America among the poor folks who can’t get past… the past. When folks of European decent speak their uneducated backwoods English, we call them rednecks or simply backwards country folk. There is no title for it but ignorant.

            Mindfulness meditation… I’m working on it. My wife helps me to recognize my need to calm down by reminding me to… SHUT-UP!! In so many words. She’s good for and to me.

          • Patrick Gannon

            An eye for an eye was actually a huge step up in the evolution of the Law as recounted in Genesis. Prior to that, a man could kill your donkey, or steal your plow and you could kill him. The eye for an eye provision sounds cruel, but what it really calls for is “proportionate justice.” The penalty should fit the crime.

            This is the problem with the Christian Hell. Yahweh gives us this command saying the punishment should fit the crime and then Jesus comes along as his alter ego and says, “Nope. Even though these mere, puny humans live but a handful of decades, we’re going to torture them for millions and billions and trillions of endless years.” Proportionate justice is out the window, and Jesus, in his Yahweh-Jesus persona becomes the most evil god of all time.

            What’s interesting is that prior to the “good news” of Jesus, in the OT, everyone good and bad alike, went to Sheol where they were just dead. Some believed at the end of time they would be wakened and judged, with the good rewarded by a new garden paradise (how that happens after the end of time is not explained), and those who fail the test are simply destroyed. Yahweh, prior to Jesus, simply wakes you up from Sheol, judges you, then destroys you. Christians don’t understand how unbelievably evil Yahweh-Jesus is, in his Jesus persona – if we are to take the words of Christian clergy that Jesus meant a real Hell when he spoke metaphorically about Gehenna, the Jerusalem town dump!

            Mindfulness (from my perspective) is all about the breath. Focus on nothing but breath whenever you feel your blood pressure rising. The trick is to catch it as early as possible. Even a couple deep breaths you pay close attention to can help.

          • Jethro

            I was making fun, and expressing disappointment, in the fact that you can justify anything with scriptures when taken out of context… or not. The NT is more psychological where the OT was mostly physical. NT will punish your thoughts, not just your acts. Which makes good sense! We must be thinking about something to act on it. Change the way you think and you change the way you act. Sounds like some weird stuff I heard in rehab. Hmmm.

            It was the idea of not being able to escape the clutches of hell that had me questioning the religion I was raised in. The message I got was, I’m human therefore I’m doomed to hell. I was told there is only one unforgivable sin which was giving up god. So I decided suicide was forgivable. But that is giving up on life therefore giving up on God. So, is suicide the only unforgivable sin? I accept that I don’t know many things about it, but I was taught by the ignorant, so no surprise. I will figure it out and when I do, I’m telling everyone if I can. For now, God is the people who says god is….

            The town dump… another way of saying forgotten. So we won’t have a funeral where people say good things and hold wonderful memories of us. So far, that’s what I’m figuring out hell is. No good memories of you after death.

            I’ve taught breathing exercises to clients and use it as well. I forget now and then. I am actually reminded by my wife that I’m getting upset over something I have no control. She really is good to and for me, all humor aside. New lessons for old problems learned daily. Still trying to recover from being a Christian! No humor there either. It’s a process to move away from that kind of brainwashing. Always angry and judgmental like a good Christian should be. Something to think about as I move out the door for work… later.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Again, areas of agreement. We are learning that we need to re-wire our brains in order to change how we think. A great book I mentioned here earlier is “Stealing Fire” which is all about this subject.

            Suicide – as a Catholic believer, I wanted to kill myself but was afraid to. As a non-believer, I no longer wanted to kill myself, but was no longer afraid to. Weird, hun? I fully intend to take myself out of the ballgame when and if the time comes that I want to do so. I wish I lived in a state where it was possible to get assistance… At the moment, I have no short term plans to stop being a pest!

            I wonder if Neale’s writing ever leads people to suicide. It removes the fear of punishment if you buy into it; and people want to be free of that fear, so it’s easy to buy into. If you kill yourself as a Christian they send you to eternal torment. If you kill yourself as a New Ager, they send you back as a reincarnated person, punished for interrupting your soul’s agenda! Hmmm… Maybe that is Hell!

            Gehenna was one of four words the Church translated to the pagan word “Hell” when the bible was translated to English. Sheol, Gehenna, Hades and Tartarus, four very different words, were all translated to the German pagan word “Hel” which referred to a northern Europe underworld – probably of Nordic vintage. The character of Jesus referred to Gehenna 11 times. It was the ultimate insult at that time for a Jew to be thrown into the dump, rather than be afforded a decent burial. If you recall gospel passages about the “twisting worm” envision smoke drifting like a twisting worm from the burning dump. Some have suggested that the “gnashing of teeth” refers to wild animals going after the remains of the daily sacrifices which would have been thrown in the dump, but it turns out that the “gnashing of teeth” passages almost always occur when Jesus is talking to clergy. It was probably an expression pertinent to clergy at the time that we’ve lost. Jesus was clearly speaking metaphorically, but the Church made it literal, and the psychological child abuse continues to this day.

            I’ve mentioned these words before, but it never hurts to repeat. Sheol is found in the OT, and everyone good and bad went there. The word “sheol” means either “grave,” “pit,” or simply “dead,” depending on the context of the sentence. It was not a place of punishment. Gehenna, I just mentioned, was the Jerusalem town dump, closed long ago. Hades is next, and it’s clearly pagan, given that Hades is the brother of Zeus and Poseidon. Just as Gehenna was referred to metaphorically for Jews, Hades was referred to metaphorically for Greeks and Romans – but again, the Church made it literal, and embraced the visions provided by Dante’s “Inferno” and Milton’s “Paradise Lost” and countless medieval paintings of humans being roasted in flames. Tartarus is the bottom layer of Hades, which according to some passages is reserved for Satan and his buddies.

            I’ve always wondered, why, if Yahweh-Jesus and heaven are so bloody wonderful, why did Satan and his buds bail out? It never made any sense to me. Until I read the bible that is – and found out Yahweh wasn’t so wonderful after all!

            “Still trying to recover from being a Christian! No humor there either” Truer words were never said! I call myself a Recovering Catholic. I think it’s like alcoholism – you are never truly cured. You just learn how to think differently. You rewire your brain. That may be one reason I got into so much reading – to rewire my brain and replace the crap, or relegate it to brain files that are no longer accessed. Put that stuff in the “Trash Bin” so to speak.

          • Jethro

            A pest… I’m beginning to think I will take over where you leave off.

            Neale’ writing says hell is of our own creation. The Bible tells us hell is a place in which we are forgotten if we don’t live a life where we please ourselves and others aka God. Bring the two together, our own guilt is hell. Of coarse, Neale’ version says that all by itself. Dante says we burn or other such things at different levels and then, actually in the Bible, The lake of fire. If we have a residual energy, I guess anything is possible, but the dead ain’t talking. Disclaimer… Depending on who you talk to.

            The translations you mention I have figured to be the truth. King James WAS a king and wanted to retain control. The catholic church also wanted to retain political control. There are many times I wish I had learned to read Hebrew. I found a bookshelf of biblical writings, written in Hebrew of course, in an old furniture store owned by a Jewish family. The business was nearly a hundred years old if not more. I still have a set of blue prints from there for a house that may have been built in 1916. Full plumbing plan right down to the cistern. 3 bathrooms here, in 1916, was a rich mans house. Very Rich.

            I don’t understand why after so many years in church, my mother was a PK and My grand parents being so adamant about the gospel facts, that I keep finding so much more than I was told. And everyone wonders why I question the faith. It’s really not changing anything, I have known they were full of crap for some time, but I don’t doubt if I looked all this up I would find even more reason to doubt.

            “I’ve mentioned these words before, but it never hurts to repeat.” your understanding Neale a little bit here aren’t you? Sorry, had to say it, I’m sure Neale will get a giggle from it. (Grin… no I laughed). But at least Sheol is a word I’ve heard before. but not in church. Didn’t the romans have a major influence if not the author of the original catholic bible with Constantine being the organizer of the canonization of the Bible.

            “If Yahweh-Jesus and heaven are so bloody wonderful, why did Satan and his buds bail out?” Why would there be competition in heaven? The most perfect place ever. Why is there someone in charge making rules? There’ll be no sadness no sorrow no troubles I’ll see, There will be peace in the valley for me. Gehenna = “Valley of Hinnom”?… too many inconsistencies!! Which Valley? So where is the perfection if heaven is at war too?

            I was taught by the religion to doubt the religion. No common sense in the preachers words.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Was your mother indoctrinated as a child? That’s the usual explanation.

            “your understanding Neale a little bit here aren’t you?” Sorry, I don’t follow you. Sure I agree that there’s no such thing as Hell, but that’s because I also think there’s no such thing as gods or afterlives, given the complete lack of evidence for either. Besides Neale does believe in a Hell of sorts. He believes the soul will return to earth again and again, subjecting another human consciousness to one Hell after the other, in its goal to achieve its agenda. You know what I say to that soul and it’s agenda? (Of course I realize there is no such thing).

            The bible was not really finalized until the advent of the printing press. Up till that time, it was continuously changing. The official canon was argued pretty much up to that time, and changes continued to be made (described by Bart Ehrman in his books). Yes, the Romans did play a huge role in bringing the Orthodox (later the Catholics) to a position of power, over competing sects such as Gnostic, Ebionites, Marcionites and others who had different views of Jesus and Christianity. Without interference by Rome, any one of those other sects might have risen to dominance, or the whole thing might have died out like so many other religions. Once Rome put the stamp of approval on it, that pretty much settled who was going to win, and from Rome’s perspective it was a win/win. Now they could add the fear of god to the fear of the emperor, in order to control the sheeple.

            Yes, Gehenna was the Jerusalem town dump in the valley of Hinnom. I refer to the dump rather than the valley, because that’s what the character of Jesus was talking about.

          • Jethro

            I’ll look my post over tonight if I remember, it was a grouping of unorganized thoughts and responses as I was cooking dinner, planning a shelving project already in the process in my kitchen, being pulled away to watch cute kittens, puppies, and children on Facebook that my wife felt needed to be seen by me. Busy night.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            [That book’s getting longer…]

            You could use “supraconscious,” which is where we come from a place of understanding and experience Oneness.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            Lol, What did you find notable in this one? Supraconscious… I’ll give it some thought. I’ll look it up… Close! I’m looking for a word that describes the common thought of all humanity that the describes the best thoughts of humanity. Like, don’t steal, kill, sleep around or with married people, the thoughts that everyone describes as good or bad and agrees on given average sanity.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I think I understand what it is you’re looking for, but don’t have a word for it. I’ve heard them called “core values” before, but that doesn’t really cover a common source. How they connect us.

          • Jethro

            Well, some people call it God. The thoughts of all humanity that most of humanity agrees upon at any given moment in time.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Whaddya think I found… A plumber making a butt scratching reference!😂

          • Jethro

            Services from a crack team of plumbers.

          • Kristen

            Hi, Ill read that and answer properly tonight when not at work.
            But sorry if I made it confusing. I acknowledge there are lots of Gods, scripture never denies that, original scriptures have what is now known as Elohim, multiple Gods, at the beginning, even the words ‘I will create man in OUR image’ speaks of Gods as a plural.
            I acknowledge Jehovah/YWHW/the Biblical/Jewish God as my God, He is the God of my ancestors, as an Israelite, plus the recognised God of the Western World. What I reject is when Christians lie, alter or make stuff up to suit themselves. I dont put words into Gods mouth…therefore I do not know if he acknowledges Christianity, Jesus was on a mission to round up the lost sheep of Israel, anything past that is heresay and I cant comment on that.
            Neales God is a God of the Afterlife and reincarnation, where there are multiple Gods. One book states “I am a new God” therefore acknowledging that is is a different God. So I have problems with the clear implucations, and the titles of the books, very clearly imp,ying Neales works are from Jehovah, when they are not. And my other problem is telling people there are no consequences or judgements, thats dangerous, and in my view, just downright mean.
            As for my opinion on Genesis, the Adam and Eve story, there are good articles in an online magazine called Uncensored, that sort of explain my understandings.
            Scrputure makes it clear that God is incredibly tough, and mean at times, to try to teach people how to avoud consequences, He is a God of Law, and the God of Christs, Law is His thing.
            If you read Revelation, it doesnt actually say He is the punisher, it talks about “he who is ancient in years, “the one on the white throne” etc, and in final jusgements is is on the other side of the ‘Pearly Gates’, not on the judgement side. I read it all differently, that He is well aware of consequences, and what The Universe etc define as wrong, the rules of who can re enter Eden etc, so was making us aware of these things. I cannot say if He is a punishing God or not, other the very end of Revelation says He will curse people who alter that chapter. I know scripture is full of threats, but Im not sure if they are true or not. Since God states ‘thy shalt not lie’, it would be out of character to make empty threats. I dont form opinions outside of my personal experience and what is published WHEN I can push the Christian alterations to one side, and ignore them.
            I have no religious background, so I first read the Bible as an ‘outsider’ alone, so tended to see all the ongoing threads, storylines and think I understand it objectively. BEFORE I knew I was an Israelite, that realisation came years later, maybe ten years ago.
            Take care,
            K

          • Jethro

            Kristen, what books in the bible do you claim… if any? I love you dearly and don’t wish to insult, I do wish to understand though.

          • Kristen

            Hi. I just try to only ‘listen’ to what I can tell is of God, or a clear story with a strong message, but going by how scripture tells you to read it, plus the Bible Codes. Each story is important, in a different way.
            I go by things like scripture stating if something differs to what God has already said, then to dismiss it for it is not of God. Plus that prophesies are only of God if they come true…clearly indicating that prophets were receiving false information from elsewhere. I even dismiss Jesus teaching forgiveness and to turn the other cheek…he later became a high priest, priests are the police force, and their vows in scripture state they MUST stop any crimes from happening if aware of it, or God may punish them just as the criminal will be punished BUT do acknowledge he wasnt yet a priest when he stated that. Also people are told not to worship Jesus or any other person, to not listen to any man who preaches matters of God that differ to what God states (yet Catholics listen to popes who say priests cant marry, when God said they should marry….go figure!!!!
            Plus take heed of the warnings about false teachers, those who say they know God but do not.
            Gods religion is Gods religion, and between Him and each parishioner, no one else, and Jesus told people to never get between a person and God, nor for anyone to sign a contract with God they are not prepared to keep…thats where Christians are stupid, they dont take it seriously and have no idea what theyve even signed.
            My main stance is that I studied from a Law perspective, not a parishioner. Literally writing pages and pages of the Laws so see what I ended up with.
            Take care,
            Xx

          • Jethro

            Jesus did not wish to be worshipped I believe. He offered a teaching. That’s all. Jesus had a mission be it true or false but Jesus was here to set an example. Jesus fed many with what most thought was little, we can do that, Jesus knew that, but we didn’t get the message properly. I don’t know why!! We have the ability to leave nobody hungry!!! Jesus was right, we can do what he did!!!!

            You have talked about a guide. setting on the edge of your bed. You see an Indian dude, like from India or an American Indian dude? I have been experiencing my bed covers being pulled down on me like I’m vacuum wrapped sometimes and touched several times through the night. I was afraid at first but not so much anymore. Help me with your understanding of this. I have seen nothing.

            God did not leave in 77′ we changed our mind of God about the same time… Actually around 67′. either way, God will never leave, only our idea of God.

          • Kristen

            Hi. I agree about Jesus….yet Christians often glorify him, and Mary, over God.
            By guide, in general they are assigned to peollem to guide you in the right direction for you, although many are just your dead grandpa.
            Yes I have seen a Native American on my bed….did i tell you that?. I nearly died walking in to my room, scary crap, but the message was i was to come in this site, maybe 5 years ago, and find someone to tell them to call their guide please, and could I please help getting that male to ‘female principles’ and humanisation, to chill them out, for their guide. Took about a year to realise it was Mewabe, and I told him this, he knew i was in here at his guides request, his Guide is near a Christ level, where my main teacher works.
            Things that happen at night carry a different meaning to daytime, which is why night showers sedate, yet morning ones give energy.
            Bed means privacy and a relaxex state, where you should have complete privacy, so anyone near you then should be quite high up. But as a precaution visualise a huge white cross, the cross of protection, in your room, or burn sage.
            Bed covers pulled down mean exposure, and seeing you, or you yourself, raw and without your personal levels of protective comfort, telling you they know something you are hiding, so to express it and allow people to see that raw part of you….as you are doing in here. Prods or touches are common, I often get a hard prod in my foot when my mind wanders too much in that pre sleep state, waking me instantly, to focus on what I should be. Look at the strength of the tough and that will tell you a gentle female or strong male energy, then look up that body part online under dream interpretation to translate the message. Like a gentle touch over your liver would mean a caring female telling you that you need to focus on sorting good from evil so you arent contaninated by anyone negative. Listen to Sam.
            That vacuum wrap feeling is a type of protection, Enclosing your own energy close to your own body, often like a tight beanie on your head. Its when your energy wanders a bit much, or you are glowing so evil become aware of you. If they are around, ask if they can please do that fat body one for you, thats really crazy. You feel almost weightless but wrapped in layers and layers of something, feeling really fat, even your tongue feels swollen. Apparently its done with dying people as you dont even feel against the mattress, therefore no pain.
            If looking into it that way doesnt make sense, then its not of good, good all have the same handbook, so may just be an attention seeking spirit.
            Tell it that its dead, and not welcome in your life or home, so to fork off, and visualise a white laser beam thing up as high as you possibly can, then aloud in you own mind say ‘I call on the Emergency Light Warriors please, to urgently remove an unwanted being from my life and home, and keep it away from me and mine forever’. They will be there within 30 seconds, many are Christs, and as a piscies, they will know how to make you aware of them, often like an almost electrical feeling on your face, a tugging behind your left eyebrow, and once you put the call out, just be quiet and still, they will possibly speak to you telepathically with thought, just to let you know its done.
            Make sure you ask for Emergency Light Warriors NOT a lightworker, two different things, if anything not of good is in your bedroom you need top soldiers not cowboys who piss around playing nice or tinkerbell.
            Xx

          • Jethro

            I am a cowboy, so no goofing around. Not that I mess with cows, figure of speech. I’ve had numbing of cheaks. No nonsense. I speak to god to remove the feeling of outsiders. Gone in seconds. Why was I contactacted? That’s my question. I’m of no importance.

          • Kristen

            Nearly everyone has guides, and when you reach a certain level they will make themselves known.
            Often waking you at night…the sign for Awakening, they try to keep you informed of a change in direction. Look up body parts touched.
            As far as evil or ‘beings’ go, anyone of good is of interest and importance to them. Its a compliment in a screwed up way.

          • Jethro

            I don’t feel threatened in the least. Anyone of good?…. well that’s up for debate. I’m human. I look forward to the bother, so maybe you are correct. Thank you.

          • Kristen

            Good, so probably a guide, just trying saying aloud ‘if you are my guide, here in my best interests, please let me know in a clear way’. Thats when you may feel like cat jumping on your bed, or sometimes tingly lips, like a funny lip balm, thats the calling card of Guides working under the Jesus juristiction, or a song you constantly wake up to, or its on when you get in the car, especially if you see a pattern of being delayed, timing is everything.
            My guides song is One Day….about conquering frontiers, for a 90s song, boy I hear it a lot, every time I get peed off with God.
            Another calling card, of those working for the Scripture God, is that you will imagine God has bright blue eyes, and Jesus with brown eyes. There are lots of things in place to determine stuff BUT if a guide or anyone ever identifies by name, they are not of good, its forbidden due to groupies etc, but they may show you a calling card. For years I had a funny old man guide, and always saw doves, I could see him doing their funny mating dance and for some reason he thought he was hot and muscley, when really really old.
            It was only when he was well gone that I stumbled upon the name Moses meaning dove, and scripture states his body and eyesight stayed that of a young man. He gave me clues to find out later BUT imagine at the time, if he said he was Moses I wouldnt believe a word of it and tell him to fork off, assuming it was an impersonator. OR others would be in awe and not act normally, or publish confidential info or be subjected to ridicule, as there are thousands of impersonators, especially Michaels!
            Take care,
            Xx

          • Jethro

            I’ve never heard a recognizable voice, a shout on occasion somewhere between awake and asleep. We have four cats, so if I feel a cat jump on the bed, there’s usually always a cat lol. I’ve never suspected anything good or bad either way, but never felt in danger either. Just the covers being pressed down and on occasion a touch which I’ve excused as a muscle spasm. my upper body feels tingly and numb-ish and I’ve excused that as a reaction to the moment. Freaky feeling.
            As for being delayed, all I have to do is get in my car and back out onto the street. Yesterday I was going to another town, a big truck pulled out and was going a bit slow as I left town, I finally got around and in no time was behind an older person doing the same speed as the truck, I got around that and, you guessed it, a small truck pulled out and I was stuck. I was cussing and laughing at the same time. We finally got around the mess on a two lane and all those people appeared to have sped up. Sometimes I think my patience is actually being tested. This is not an isolated event. But at the end of almost every day, My timeline is as planned for the most part.

            I can’t figure out what your saying here, “OR others would be in awe and not act normally, or publish confidential info or be subjected to ridicule, as there are thousands of impersonators, especially Michaels!” What are you talking about?

          • Jethro

            May I call you Kirsty? It’s not a pole dancers name! It’s a wonderful name. My Name is Charles and I invite you to use it.

          • Kristen

            Thanks Roy..haha.
            I dont answer to anything other than Kirsty, its all I know, and have been open about it being my name in here, when chatting personally, go for it.

          • Jethro

            Roy works, it’s what everyone calls me daily. Charles is the legal name.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Thank you for that ‘on topic’ response. As I understand it, the Jews had three primary gods in the early days – Baal, Asherah and Yahweh. Yahweh was the god of war, but eventually became the only god. You are correct that the OT supports multiple gods. The command says roughly, ‘you shall have no gods before me’ – it doesn’t say there are no other gods, only that you should worship this one. Few Christians understand that – and probably few Jews as well. (I just read the books of Enoch which describe in part, some of these hosts of gods, angels or archons in the 10 heavens. I thought that John was on some sort of acid trip when he wrote The Revelation, and now I think he got that stuff from Enoch!)

            What you didn’t respond to though, was whether one should take Pascal’s wager. In your case, instead of the Christian god, whom I refer to as Yahweh-Jesus since they are supposed to be one and the same, your version of Pascal’s wager would say that we should choose to worship Yahweh as the safest choice. Would you agree with that? If one chooses the Christian version, or the New Spirituality version or Hindu, Muslim or Aztec version of god instead, will they be punished for eternity by Yahweh? I don’t think most Jews believe that, and most would suggest that Pascal’s wager is stupid, but I’m not sure. Obviously we have no more evidence for your god than any other. Does Pascal’s wager make sense if we adjust it to apply to your god instead of the Christian god? I vote no.

            I love your description of Yahweh being tough and mean (what you accuse me of!). This brought to mind the book of Amos, whose theme is: The beatings will continue until morale improves! Yeah, that Yahweh is a real motivator!

          • Kristen

            Hi. Im at work, about to open so have to be quick.
            Tbe judgements in Revelation are actually the top line of the Kabbalic Tree Of Life, the female principles/undestanding Binah position is represented by Pearls that at some point become the Pearly Gates, the middle under The Source is represented by the Sun, but is a humanising position where all the gems in the walls represent human trait requirements, like a final ‘human nature’ training ground, which is where I’m based, then some will move on to Gods chokmah position for a Heavenly life. Note that ghere God dwells, with the properties of love and joy. What scripture fails to mention is that this is just one version of it. These things are Universal, Hinduism, Native American cultures, Buddism and most others speak, or used to speak, of the same tree and ending.
            Therefore it wont make a difference who or what people worship, the size of Gods Heaven on Earth is in scripture, and I think the lost dead see scrolls speak more of it. There may well end up 20 of these places on Earth.
            BUT they exclude non believers…you simply cant get that far in the human journey without believing in ‘them’ etc, as you wont be able to get to the Binah position with understanding. I guess its like a trade, the Gods will simply think ‘why should I work my butt off helping that person the have a great happy life when they cannot believe I even exist’. Remember back in Genesis, humans are created in their image, and in all publications they clearly express human behaviours and traits…like impatience and tempers. In the end, these negative traits are gone in everyone, replaced by those of ghd gems in the Revelation walls/under The Source on the tree.
            So Pascals wager is irrelevant, it doesnt matter if people worship God or not, its all just the ending about the human journey. Other than Heavens on Earth, there are also Eden options and a lot more, Eden for true humans by definition, where they show they are the perfect himan soul, by definition of how we were meant to be.

            I havd to laugh….you are still displaying that brainwashed Christian trait of thing one mans prophesy, is the be all and end all. Thats just a small part of the picture. I think because they changed scriptures to say God created Earth…..not the case. Ditch the Christian perspective on it all.
            Hope this explains it a bit better,
            K

          • Patrick Gannon

            I think I told you that I’m reading a book called “The Other Bible” and it includes texts from the Dead Sea Scrolls, Egyptian Library, Nag Hammadi, and so on. It also includes the Kabbalah, but I haven’t gotten to that yet.

            I don’t understand the reference to The Revelation, given that is a completely Christian text having nothing to do with Judaism and rejected by Judaism, just like the rest of the NT.

            ” I guess its like a trade, the Gods will simply think ‘why should I work my butt off helping that person the have a great happy life when they cannot believe I even exist’.” So these “gods” are not all-powerful? That they are “working their butts off” implies labor, something that saps their strength. They can have their feelings hurt, by mere mortals? Poor things. My heart goes out to them. Buck up, gods! At least you are in agreement with Neale – it is better to believe the wrong thing than to believe nothing at all. I disagree. I think lying to ourselves is not healthy.

            ” Remember back in Genesis, humans are created in their image, ” No, no, no. We can’t go there. Humans evolved; there is absolutely no evidence that they were “created.” That is one of the fallen pillars that previously supported the foundation for Yahweh and the other gods.

            Sorry, I can’t follow all of your note in order to comment on it. “ghd gems”? What is that? A typo, surely; but I can’t figure out what you were trying to say. And I don’t get your last paragraph at all. Who changed the scriptures? Christians didn’t change the OT; it was well established in both Hebrew and Greek (albeit with translation errors in Greek). Obviously I don’t put any credence in prophesies, particularly Jesus – as it looks less and less likely that he ever existed in the first place. More scholars are moving to that viewpoint.

          • Kristen

            The final section in Revelation, 21&22 is the top line in the void on tne KabbalicTree Of Life, and the dead sea scrolls reiterate it. The section before that was put in later presumably by Christians.
            Yes it was a type..tablet! The gems….the properties of the walls in revelation are the final human traits that have to be restored.
            If you want to see how I view you or understand my take, read the Timothy scriptures, and look at how you would have thought about ‘you’ now, when you were devout. I cant be an enabler sorry.
            Xx

          • Patrick Gannon

            “look at how you would have thought about ‘you’ now, when you were devout.”

            Oh, if only someone had presented me with the ideas and information that I have now, when I was much younger. How much less fearful my life would have been. What you see as a curse, would have contributed to a much earlier salvation for me!

            As for The Revelation, I’ve never done acid, but I suspect that’s what the author was on, when he wrote it. I’ve read some other “Revelations” from “The Other Bible” that I told you about – ancient texts both Jewish and Christian that described revelations that were every bit as fantastic and hallucinogenic as the book in the NT. It appears to have been a typical writing style for that sort of text in those days.

            The NT is put together in such a way as to tell a story. The four gospels come first and they paint a picture of Jesus; then we get Acts and Paul spreading the word, then we hear from some apostles by way of forged epistles, and the whole thing is summed up in the end by The Revelation. When you read the NT in chronological order, the whole flavor changes and you see the new religion developing. Paul is actually the first author, writing mostly in the 50’s AD. Then there is nothing till about 70AD when we get Mark’s gospel. The thing is, Paul knows nothing whatsoever about Jesus’ genealogy, virgin birth, family, baptism, disciples, ministry, miracles or sermons. All Paul knows is the crucifixion and he only knows this through personal revelations (delusionary visions), and scripture – meaning Jewish scripture; including texts that did not make it into the bible.

            Mark invents the character of Jesus, Matthew and Luke embellish him, and John changes the character to turn him from Messiah to god. Acts is largely fictional, Revelation shows up somewhere in the middle, and then you have all the other epistles ending with 2 Peter who would have been long dead by the year 120 AD when it is thought to have been written. The Revelation is clearly written about the hated Roman Empire, which Jesus obviously did not defeat.

            As for the Kabbalah, I still haven’t read it yet – I have a ways to go, but you certainly have me curious.

          • Kristen

            Hey…I missed your first question, about Annie. No idea, I just read things in here lightly. I wouldnt think that about people, I see with innocent eyes so unless people are blatant, I would miss any manipulation or anything.
            But from what I know about Annie, I wouldnt think so at all and havnt seen that anywhere at all. People just talk about what is at the forefront in their minds so when in here, if people are annoyed with you, they may naturally talk about you, not even realising they are doing it. You chose to stand out with boring long threads, people notice ‘different’.
            But from what I know about human nature, we are a reactive species so no one is really predictable.

            I believe in God because He has proven his presence to me, and I know ‘wants’ me. Im of use, not a waste of space, and represent my Israelite family as a member, by standing up and speaking up. I do not choose God out of fear, or err on the side of caution, its my personal choice, in my blood, and what is within my. Im compatible with God, not threatened, manipulated, bullied or in fear of consequences.
            I dont view Israelites, or anyone, as superior to any other group, and dont define us as the chosen ones or anything, its just biological, one God chose to be the God of one couple, then family, anf thousands of years on, Im just a random offspring. But being an Isrealite is different, I think from in scripture where God states He will imprint his Laws in the hearts and minds of Israelites….the new or second covenance. The scriptures that state we will ‘know’ God ourselve rather than via neighbours or needing to be taught are true but its impossible to explain. I dont have to question anything, or make decisions, its all kind of in me already, like a computer program. Lots of things that only made sense to me when I read scripture, finally an aha moment, where my odd ways were explained. Little things like a drive to lose baby weight fast and never getting overweight, needing to ensure I have long hair, a hatred of synthetic fabrics, being a red eat meater, unable to wear purple, hating religious statues….hundreds of random things that are all in scripture. I know this will sound odd to you, but its all I know.
            I wouldnt be able to get into the headspace of a non Israelite, or even process Pascals wager, for me things like that arent on the radar. Likewise for ‘choosing the Christian God’. I dont have a choice of Gods, I was born with one, and as I typed earlier, I dont know if God supports or acknowledges Christianity..scripture forbids me putting words into Gods mouth, so I cant even talk about that, I have absolutely no opinion on it. But I would like to think he does, considering half this planet are his groupies and pay him a heck of a lot of money. BUT I have yet to see anything in churches that I could definately say are the hand of God…but I can only base that on my personal experience, he may be different with Christians to Israelites. Our kids would never die, we would never be raped etc, we are protected from that. I suspect a lot that peolle put against God, good and bad, are actually guides of reincarnated souls. Jesus said God is a God of the living, not the dead, so Im not sure if He would be involved in the lives of reincarnated people, Christian or not.
            Neales God is a God of the afterlife and reincarnation, good or bad, which is why CwG feels just as ‘homely’ and familiar for many people, as God/Jehovah does to me, and Hinduism is to Hindus, and Buddhism to buddhists. Muslims are the ones that have me completely confused! As does Mohammad, who apparently recieved teachings from Gabriel.
            Like you, or what I interpret from you, I do think that Christian beliefs are based on brainwashing and whats drummed into them, the truths as well as the untruths, rather than feeling God in their spirit, therefore becoming false teachers, and often deceptive.
            I define Christianity as a huge man made cult.
            Re punishments…I covered that earlier, there are lots of punishments mentioned, but not necessarily God as the punisher if you look closely. I dont know the answer to that. At yhe end of Revelation Jesus has the Books Of Life, they are Universal books, in the and like Santas good/naughty lists…that define who are righteous people so able to eat from the Tree of Life to be immortal. Thats a Universal thing, and no corruption is permitted, so God may have a say, or may not.
            Also note that Heaven and Hell are mental states, if you look up sulphur, fire etc in a dream interpretation book, youll understand it. I have no idea where the concept of a physical place come from, I guess someone made that up and people believed them. BUT the physical can be catalysts for an Eden, Heaven and Hell states, so where a lot of people are in a certain state THEY could change that physical area.
            A long answer….but you asked…like science, God and religion, as well as human nature, take lots of words to explain.
            MY words though.
            Take care,
            K

          • Patrick Gannon

            Once again, thank you for an on-topic conversation. Basically, I will take from your post, that you do not buy into Pascal’s Wager, nor would I expect you to since it’s a Christian thing.

            As for Hell being a place, the Jewish “Hell” was Sheol (not a place of punishment), and first it was thought to be in the firmament, above the earth, but I think later it was moved below the earth along with the Christian Hell, when it turned out that the stars weren’t just holes poked in the firmament!

            How do you address the fact that the five pillars that support the Abrahamic god(s) have washed away? Yahweh is introduced and described to us in the bible through five specific actions explained in some detail in Genesis. 1) We know today that there was no six day creation. Only YECs (young earth creationists) deny this today. 2) We have learned recently that there was no two-person DNA bottleneck. That means no Adam and Eve, no Fall from Grace (this affects Catholicism and Christianity more than Judaism), 3) There was no global flood. Duh. 4) There was no mass Exodus from Egypt. After extensive searching, archaeologists and historians have given up the search as fruitless. Israeli archaeologists in particular had access to excavate sites that other people didn’t have, and the country’s leading experts say it didn’t happen in any way as written in the book. 5) Finally, there was no conquest of Canaan – a given if there was no mass Exodus. We know that the Persians tore up Canaan, but the Israelites never did. Without these pillars – what remains to support Yahweh’s existence? The only thing we have to introduce us to him is debunked scripture; so why do people still believe in him? (Mostly it’s because they don’t know about these five pillars being destroyed).

            What’s happening on a global scale is a massive paradigm change – how we get our information is dramatically changing. In the old days, it was one-to-many distribution. You got all your information from an authoritative source, your parents, your teachers, your church, your government. With that architecture, it was easy to control the flow of information and the Church did a magnificent job of stifling information so that you only heard what they wanted you to hear. Today, our information flow is changing from one-to-many to many-to-many. Look for this to have a dramatic effect on our culture and society over the next decades… Your synagogue is not going to tell you about the five pillars, but in a many-to-many communications and information system, you now have the ability to know that and can confirm it from other sources.

          • Kristen

            I know of tbe five pillars, but God now makes his presence known in individuals lives when he wants to. And a rabbi told me about them.
            We are now in a place near the end of Revelation, where there are thrones, the four legs and seat of thrones has replaced pillars, thrones mean legal governance with four leg foundations, and a seat.
            I have no information from my parents, a church, my government or otherwise, my parents are probably athiests, Im not sure.
            I dont need anything to prove Yahwehs existance, thats what Ive tried to explain, that you seem to be dismissing, as per usual. Israelites are different, Ive tried to explain how, I would never have to question that at all and cand comprehend people having to.
            It doesnt matter to me if the scripture stories are true or not, they are all in there for a reason, many parables, nothing to do with me needing them to be true in order to prove Gods existance…He does that loud and clear.
            K

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’m confused. If you follow Jewish scripture, that means you have no use for The Revelation. That’s a purely Christian text. As for the five pillars for the foundation of Yahweh – that’s my own invention.

            Yes, I am dismissing the existence of Yahweh, given that his foundation has washed away. There is nothing left of the individual described in the bible, once those pillars wash away. You’re insisting. I’m dismissing. I at least, have the benefit of evidence on my side.

            One of the reasons I’m here is to try and understand why people believe things for which there is no evidence. You say it doesn’t matter to you if these stories are true – but if they aren’t true – and they aren’t – then what basis is there for the character of Yahweh?

          • Kristen

            There were 5 Gods in the OT. 2 Timothy 2: 14 and 23.

          • Patrick Gannon

            “There were 5 Gods in the OT.”

            Actually a couple more: Yahweh, Asherah (Ashtoreth), Baal, Chemosh, Dagon, a large number of Egyptian gods, Marduk (Babylonian), Milcom, and of course the Golden Calf was worshipped as a god.

            I have always been struck by that story of the golden calf. Moses goes up Mt. Sinai to commune with Yahweh, and in his absence, his brother Aaron arranges for the Israelites to construct a golden calf and they all worship it. You can claim these people were your ancestors, but if it was me, I wouldn’t brag about having ancestors who worshipped a piece of metal. Anyway, Moses returns and says Yahweh really has his panties in a wad over this, and orders the Israelites to turn brother against brother and kill each other – so they do. I forget the number, a few thousand are killed. He then “punishes” (?) Aaron for his evil misdeed by making him the the chief of the priests. I guess he saw real potential in him!

            Of course the other interesting tidbit about this story is that Mt. Sinai was meticulously searched for archaeological remains and nothing was turned up. There were supposed to be 600,000 fighting men, plus women, children, foreigners and their flocks. Most people estimate 1 – 3 million people. And they didn’t leave a single shard of pottery, a single spear or arrow tip, not a shield, not a wagon wheel – not a single thing. Leading Jewish archaeologists concluded that the story is a myth, and all but a handful of fundagelicals and orthodox Jews agree.

            As for Timothy; a) I’m once again surprised that someone who claims to worship the Judeo side of Judeo-Christianity, continues to refer to Christian texts. b) Timothy is a forgery. This is well accepted. There’s a more polite name for it (Pseudepigrapha) when you write in the name of another; as in this case Tim pretends to be Paul; but at the core, it’s forgery. The Tims were written long after Paul’s death. b) Free thinking women don’t generally care for Tim. Paul had no problem with women in the church, despite a passage entered long after the fact, completely out of context in which Paul says he doesn’t allow women to talk in church (mere paragraphs away from when he has them doing exactly that!). Tim instructs women to keep their heads covered and their mouths shut. He’s no friend to women. At the time of Paul – 50s AD, women played a role in the new religion, but by the time of the Tims in the early 100s AD, women had been severely demoted by the new church c) I completely disagree with Tim, as does everyone who participates here, including yourself, given that we are all quarreling at times about words. What is the use of a global conversation if one is not to argue about words? Of course it has value. Tim is an idiot. This epistle was written as the Catholic Church was being developed and establishing itself as the sole source of telling others how to live their lives. The passage talks about quarreling against god, but it really means, don’t quarrel with the Catholic Church. d) as for “foolish and stupid arguments” who is to decide that? I would suggest that it is a foolish and stupid argument to proclaim that someone contributing here is an AI, but what the heck – it’s a global conversation.

            Since you are leaving, I’ll simply point out that you didn’t refute anything I said on your way out… Thanks for the chat.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Kirsten,

            You’ve no idea how much I appreciate it when you explain who you are, what you believe and why, and how you see other’s perspectives. It’s like a combination of fresh breeze in your honesty wrapped up in an education shining colors I’ve not experienced before. Thank you so much for that!

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Kristen

            Thank Annie…human beings, being human.
            Xx

    • Jethro

      Interesting… I thought my grandparents came up with that one. Better to err on the side of God. I had asked when I was 8 or 9 if there was proof that God existed. I’m surprised I didn’t get slapped in the mouth. My grandmother (the calm one) simply said “No”. And explained after some silence, It would be better to follow the laws of God and live good than to live life for the devil and go to hell if we find that God exists after death. But of course, there are all those other Gods Patrick mentioned. I was aware of that then and couldn’t figure out how one God was better than the other. Most important though… How could so many people be damned to hell if nobody knew for sure? Why was I willing to see “EVERYONE” in the heaven I was promised and God was going send the majority of them to hell? Why was I thinking that animals would go to heaven and told they would not due to the fact that the animals were there to serve our needs.

      Before I crawl under any house, I spray the opening for poisonous spiders. Then I watch all the bugs that I didn’t even know were there, crawl around and die. I even smash a few. More than once I’ve wondered how important my life is compared to those insects. Each life is important and serves a purpose. Why is my life and purpose anymore important than the spiders? Does any form of life wish to do anything more than sustain their own life as they were genetically designed to do? I’m always pretty sure that if an insect had a can of human spray, they would use it every-time I approached a crawl space. Or worse, what if all living things had the ability to kill humans for getting into things that bug nature? OUCH! We are no better than cockroaches to nature I would imagine, just as aggravating, more invasive and more destructive. Funny thing is, the cockroach doesn’t know and we are very aware of our trespasses. The earth and all life on it is here to serve us…. ridiculous!! And we are the ones promised a heaven…

      • Patrick Gannon

        We are far more aggravating, invasive and destructive than cockroaches to our planet. They have been here much longer than us, and will be here long after we’re gone.

        • Jethro

          Amen

        • Kristen

          Hey…in this battle with Sam, Im just letting you know that I looked at the cover page on your fb. A week or so ago you told someone in here to find you on fb, it was the same pic. I didnt snoop further, but he’s clearly mirroring you in here, even getting his ref about you and 9/11 from your pic on fb.
          Just letting you know, apologies I snooped, I have to be a detective to get to the bottom of this.
          K

          • Patrick Gannon

            You have no reason to apologize for viewing a publicly available FB profile. Most of my stuff is public. I have little to hide. I don’t get the reference to 9/11, as I haven’t caught up with all the posts this weekend, while I was out doing chores. I don’t recall any references to 9/11 on my FB page, but it’s possible there are posts on the subject from some time in the past. I look up people’s FB pages from time to time, and have no guilt in doing so.

            There’s no battle with Sam from my perspective. He started with personal insults, and that was the end of the game for me. If his posts are directed to, or about, me, I skip them, just like I do with GPs insults.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I am just now seeing all the posts related to whatever it was that Sam posted – it seems he deleted them. As Jethro knows, I find this to be quite aggravating. Trying to recreate the content of a thread when the most pertinent parts are missing, is frustrating – but it did not look like a discussion I would have wanted to participate in, so no loss.

            I never thought he seriously considered the idea that I was a program or more than one person – I thought he was just messing with me, and I was willing to match wits and play the game until he turned to personal insults. If he really thought or really thinks that…. Nah..

            He apparently managed to get some people at each other’s throats, which is interesting… Usually the only throat up for grabs is my own!

          • Kristen

            We were all a lot worse than just a program…but he has acknowledged what happened and has manned up.

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Jethro,

        Oh, there you go again. My questions weren’t about the proof of God, but they were about my friends going to hell. I already was convinced I was. In the twisted theology of the catholic church, a thought was as bad as the deed. If my father hadn’t already told me I was evil, I would have known I was anyway, condemned for wishing him dead.

        I’ve wondered, about the lives we end without much thought. Living in a trailer park with a lot of turnover, I’ve dealt with waves of infestations as the cockroaches and spiders and termites simply jump from one trailer to the next. I’m covered in bites at the moment as I’m applying my pet friendly kill-em-all pesticide once again. They get pissed off and bite.

        Maybe cockroaches and spiders and termites go to heaven. I know my cats and dogs have had Souls I expect to greet me when it’s my time. Where’s the line? Plants have lives, too.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Jethro

          Your post had me recalling a conversation about proof of god and did God exist. She was honest and said no proof but it would be best to live as though God existed just in case God did exist, living on the side of believing in hell to keep from going there. that’s what it boils down to. The bug part was me just sharing some thoughts. Its always good to know another person has the same thoughts on occasion. All life is important, right? we should be teaching our kids this stuff. existing with not killing to avoid them.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Yep. It’s what the children learn, or are allowed to express, that’s important. It’s the strongest influence we have, our bonds with children. Yes, we can change only ourselves, but we can teach, too.

  • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

    Talking to your soul or inner self. I’d mentioned awhile back about a footnote in a book on near death experiences that mentioned people talking with a wise, calm, part of themselves like their soul.

    I did not find that book or footnote quote. But I did just read how people can access this soul or inner self. Here is how it’s done.

    You learn to lucid dream. When you know you are awake in the dream, simply talk and say out loud the question you’d like answered. According to the article, the dream will answer you most of the time. It may be a voice, a message on a wall. 9 out of 10 times these encounters of the self is not personified, but you will feel as if there is a consciousness behind the dream itself. The inner you, the unconscious, your soul etc. Sounds very exciting! So there is another way to access your soul, inner self. You don’t have to necessarily have to lucid dream to get there, this is just one way and it sounded pretty cool so I’m just following up on it.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Marko,

      I highly recommend lucid dreaming to anyone who wants to make a connection that’s infused with an embracing energy of Love, pure Divinity, for the experience—an experience that may or may not work for anyone else, but who knows? Lucid dreaming has many uses, and my experience doesn’t negate anyone else’s ​experience. I go from a meditative state to this expanse of indescribable proportions compared to what we think we are and even beyond what we call our Soul, or our “portion,” as we imagine that to be. And it’s all Love.

      I haven’t tried using it to answer a question. I’m curious to see what happens. That’s if I sleep.

      I did three things in one day that I usually separate by at least a day for recuperation and it had maximum impact because my body reacts to weather fronts and idiot doctors, both of which I was dealing with already, so I tend to drift in and out—a common reaction to high level chronic pain over an extended period of time. Sometimes the mind insists on relief, and it won’t be denied. Just putting it out there.

      No narcotics or NSAIDS, just muscle relaxers and a med that doubles for treatment of peripheral neuropathy and a mood stabilizer. And psych meds that are supposed to relieve pain but don’t and lately aren’t doing anything for the depression or anxiety, either. I’m blessed by the presence of Biscuit and a friend sometimes sleeping in my living room.

      A distraction or, as Christie and I called it, “shiny thing!” when one of us would go off on a tangent, can be a healthy thing to do. Humor is a way to re-energize by providing both a relief valve and a break from going​ over the same things again and again. I’ve only recently started engaging in distractions here, but there are gems amongst the humor and distractions. I noticed that long before I jumped in.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

        Lucid dreaming may hold keys to freeing you from chronic pain, who knows? Ask your dreaming self.

        Years back I did a lot of lucid dreaming and now I’m re-entering that world again. I was quite taken by the ability of asking your dream, (not your dream characters) but the dream itself & get answers. Dream characters are really hard to talk to & get any straight answer. But never thought just to ask out loud to the dream itself. That fascinates me. The fact that others do this & got really profound helpful answers, means we can penetrate other layers of our conscious beingness, that we don’t take advantage of. How many layers of the dreaming self do we have?

        I’m sorry for your chronic pain. Look into what Neale says about pain verses suffering, visualize yourself free of it & if you can, look into the Beemer matt. And if you know someone who has one, use it. They are very expensive. 2 friends have them & they say it works miracles.

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Thanks, Marko. I’ll look into that. And most days I don’t suffer, I’ve just been having to jump through hoops required for me to prove I need what I do—surgery—and dealing with doctors who are incompetent in the process. Sometimes my patience wears thin. It’s been a while since I’ve had to play the game.

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

  • Sam

    This place is a “deadpool”, and Michelle not here for the right reasons. So, here we go.

    Michelle, Michelle (babybleustardust). How I got to know her, and why it’s over.
    She has been on my case since I came to this place. Pretty much at once, putting in some words of absurdity to me, and now and then from there on. Apparently all innocent and sweet. But also somewhat irritating, as we all know how absurdity can be. After all, this is a place of conversation, a two-way street. She is definitely high on something, in my view, something that she apparently needs.
    At other times, she is supposedly both a clear speaking English teacher and have this head for advanced science nor the less. This last “upgrade” she felt the need to explain to us (a dead giveaway), just before engaging Patrick on such subjects. Which, of course, had been out jogging, listening to a book. Lol. What an absurd scene. All the way staged from both sides. For the sake of having the information out, and to keep a conversation going. People are not getting paid for doing nothing.
    Michelle, when in the corner of absurdity, it’s a total fake. Only still, I can believe with the help of substances. So then, now we are coming to Michelle’s main purpose on this blog. Her big role is to make colorful language look ridiculous.
    Let me explain. I’ve been around, a lot. And if there is anything a nerd-atheist hate, it’s colorful language. Even just the one word with a double meaning and they go nuts, attacking it fiercely, as is totally messing up their calculations; line of argumentation. Colorful language will simply not fit inside a head that is square; a brain too primitive.
    So, that’s her job. And towards me especially. I like colorful language in the right dosage. But her job, as signed up for, is to regardless have it look ridiculous. To put it in extreme, to show and warn us all what it would be if we don’t stop that bullshit. No one would possibly want to be looney-michelle, now would we? Classic scare tactics.
    But a put on show. She is an English teacher after all, running two blogs. Think about it. Everything else is a fake. She gets paid. She is a selfish everything-for-a-buck person as well. Just like Patrick, the bulldog. And, of course, they work together and towards the same goal. To sabotage everything Neale Donald Walsch stands for, and instead put in place this primitive doctrine of selfishness. I know, they don’t grasp it all together either, just little helpers. More about that extra dollar, making those bills go away.

    I know, Marko :) But this is how I settle things and move on. Me and Michelle is done. And if she still wants to communicate, I will pretty much just laugh at her fakeness :)

    This place is pretty strange. Just a few months ago, sometimes down to only 15 comments. Yes, I backtracked it. And just when I stepped in, it rises to many hundred, booming. Still, not that many around. Not any fresh faces. It’s like a ghost town, with ghosts, scaring those actually alive out :) I can’t possibly imagine this is something Neale Donald Walsch wants. Anyway, two down :)

    • Kristen

      Mmmmmmm, I just logged in to add something to Patrick the person, that I was ‘reminded’ of in the shower, just as that popped up. Now Im unsure why I was meant to see it straight away. So Ill just react, neutral as always.

      Just a few points…Ive been chatting a lot lately, a lot is my general chatter with people, on my one woman mission to get people chatting normally, rather than about matters about humans and God, but with a strange disassociation from those matters as people. Not disputing what you said, but a lot is just me ‘humanising’ people with chatter, its what I do, Ive possibly led to a lot of the silly posts, works been quiet, so would account for high numbers! BUT if theres no human to bring out, theres no human there!

      I’ll also say that Michelle unfortunately has allowed ‘beings’ into her home, life, and access to her body to type…the dangerous side of mediumship, and had one very nasty one around her early last year, that felt like a crazy asian. She believes what they tell her I think, its all very classic and common. That nasty one tried to heap me with praise, calljng me a goddess and almost glorifying me when Michelle asked for my help, then turned on me as soon as I called its bluff and ordered it to stay away from her…and tried to curse me. Again, not disputing what you are saying, but defending her a bit as having a lot of external influence, and they hate me with a vengence. Those kinds of matters should be treated like a mental health illness or drug addiction, its sad and not necessarily the person speaking, as I tried to point out last night when things escalated…my instincts are possibly sympathy toward Michelle for being in a screwed up situation, where there really is no help. So its easier to relax and roll with it I guess, hallucinations and all. Or if you are right, I would say its possibly duress, minions are generally under duress I think. Just my opinion, youre the one whos looking into it all. But your noting about a general humour matter weeks ago being missed and taken seriously was interesting, it still is. Then saying they are ‘mirroring’ me was incredibly odd as well. A WTF…but I dont mind being the default for blame! Yes, she has said shes an english teacher, but hasnt said she works as one, Ive never thought she works outside of home, too much time online, just an assumption!
      This is all incredibly odd, I missed most of this, other than ‘feeling’ 3 non humans in here.. But can now see that it started with the schmoderator I think…for a couple of years most my serious posts, informative ones, have been deleted, that I always assumed was Neale. As soon as I mentioned it to Jethro, it started with everyone, and everything went nuts. Do you thinks thats a link, or just a fluke?

      Im an open book, go for it with me if you feel you should to get to the bottom of this….., process of elimination. Be open when ‘evil’ or aliens are around, then they are either non threatened as the cowards they are, or know its a waste of time as they cant conquer a human personality, humans have too much natural joy for them to withstand, thats what they try to ‘kill’…humour and fast banter are traits almost exclusive to humans, and they freaken hate it…jealousy!
      Take care Sam, and be careful, the underground can be a scary place, youre braver than me! Heck…I only knew you as a quiet person, that a few weeks ago said the words ‘Sam I Am’ so became Sam Sam Sam I Am, Green Eggs And Ham in the sitcom, but had little to say, other than the cyber ‘six’..hilarious! And remember that somewhere in all bodies is a real person, even if buried deep or locked away.
      I still cant see that they (whoever they are), would commit time to just be trolls sabotaging a website, thats such a lame agenda, surely there is something deeper than that?? That we probably dont want to know. Some could say that silliness and general chitchat is sabotaging this website…I suspect Marko would.
      K

      • Sam

        You wrote this just a little too fast, being this much, all polished (well, enough), to be just Kristen :)
        I wonder why you guys never learn anything. Primitive minds indeed :) Oh, I be careful, as you said. I be fine. But you guys is now in really deep sh*t. This snowball can quite easily roll all the way down into the black hole from where you came, right on top of your headquarter. Even be the very tipping point, for big events of change. Oh my, might as well have it self-detonate right now :)

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Wait a minute. If typing fast when one knows what one wants to say is being judged, then I’m in trouble. I once froze up a word processing system because I typed faster than its 200wpm limit. No robot, just dexterous with tons of practice. Learning piano probably helped​, with each hand doing its own thing, at least.

          But I’m no machine and no alien, being very human.

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          • Kristen

            Are you thinking WTF?????????? Am I an alien now? Boy, someone forgot to give me that memo, damn.
            Xx

          • Sam

            There is no human behind that post. Or I would know it. It’s just words put together. A summary. Pretty loco assembled, but still smooth, as in no human involved. The fast “typing” is far from it, but quite a lot more, saying Kristen is in on it too. I may have a post on it later, but now is not the time. I like Kristen when she turns up as a human, but the facts are the facts.

            So, that leaves you and Jethro.
            I only had one discussion with Jethro, and therefore too little to go on. But from that one time, I never felt more hate from anyone, ever. He really hates the likes of me, you know, my type. He keeps a distance because of it, or he would most certainly lose his cool. Can such a bottomless hate be enough to join a bad-guy-club? I don’t know. But to make a wild guess, I would say yes. Considering how strange everything else is on this blog, etc.

            So then, what about you, Annie? :) What on earth are you doing here? You don’t need to, you know. Neale has other and better places for you to join if you are such a fan. No Patrick around, and several more people to enjoy. This place is very empty, and a waste of time. In my book, it doesn’t add up. Jethro and Kristen to talk to, and who else? A little bit looney-michelle and Marko? You could do way better than this if you wanted to. Oh, and I know, you now would feel the need to explain yourself. But please don’t, I heard it before. It wouldn’t change my mind.

            So there we have it. This weird place of only a very few “ghosts” messing about endlessly, apparently for no good reason at all. But pretty effective, as it seems, to keep newcomers away. This place may need a thorough cleanup :)

          • Kristen

            Sam, seriously, stop now. You are the one now looking crazy, seriously, and Im worried about you, the source of your info is incorrect.
            Im human thanks.
            And yes I did read that in a few seconds, I was in here just finished a post to Annie and saw someone typing so waited to see who/what it was.
            Can you please tell me the times I have appeared as non human?

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Sam,

            I’m quite aware of other opportunities available to me, thank you. I participate elsewhere, related to Neale and CWG or not, related to Spirituality or not. I’m here for very simple reasons—I gain from reading Neale’s columns. I enjoy responding to them, sharing how I’ve been touched. I enjoy reading a variety of responses, just not repetitive or dismissive ones. I like seeing things from another’s perspective, like when Kirsten explains her beliefs, and I learn from it. I have fun with the humor and distractions.

            There it is, all laid out, simply put.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

        • Kristen

          Exactly, typed fast..and what Annie said below.

          I explained in the first sentence, I didnt know why I saw you your post straight away…I never log in here, I only look at reply emails and log in that way, so it was odd for me to even see it at all…so rolled with instincts. Unpolished!!!!!!!!

          But hey….dont get stroppy with me, I was just pointing out other information relevant to it, in Michelles defense, as I would do with anyone where I know other information from that person.
          No black hole, primitive mind, lack of learning, or headquarters etc here thanks. Im no part of anything, especially things like that. Im not sure how to take what you typed to me, and you know I type with a smile, but if there was any implication at all that Im a part of anything dodgy, aliens, black holes, primitive or anything youve spoken of, then Im sorry, I know thats not the truth therefore you would lose any credibility from my perspective…and respect.
          Typed a little too fast perhaps? A rash response?
          Take care,
          : )

      • Jethro

        “As soon as I mentioned it to Jethro, it started with everyone, and everything went nuts. Do you thinks thats a link, or just a fluke?”

        Kirsty, Neale confirmed it was no person here already. But please go ahead and try to clear this up. At best, it was coincidence. I found it as aggravating as everyone else. I’m still here and the problem has mostly stopped as far as I know.

        • Kristen

          Hey, not accusing you at all of anything.
          But Im apparently an alien computer programme, so what do I know??
          Xx

  • Sam

    Someone is desperate and putting all my posts on “pending”. Can you fix it, Neale?

    • Sam

      Oh, I think I fixed it myself. Never mind :)

  • Sam

    This is wildly interesting. Not :)
    Right now I am the only human in here. The rest is programming talking to each other.
    You’ve been duped for years Neale Donald Walsch, at this place.

    • Kristen

      Ok Sam……..right now I am forken pissed off like you will never freaken know, and thats almost impossible for me.
      I am as human as human can be…not even reincarnated.
      Youve now just outed yourself as a crazy….or something else.
      What happened to nice Sam Sam I Am, with green eggs and ham? Did you eat too many green eggs????
      I gave you credibility, which you have now thrown out the trash.
      Others may not ask for explanations…..but I am please.
      Xx

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Me, also. Confused more than angry, about how we are all… programs? C’mon, Sam. Kirsten’s obviously human. When it’s everybody but yourself, sometimes that indicates there’s something else going on.

        Kirsten asked, and said please… Me, too.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Kristen

          Thanks Annie…Im really curious. I get about Patricks long argumentative posts, and can see Michelle is ‘different’, but……????
          And how all this technology to create computerised personalities have just ended up in here…one little forum in this huge world.
          There would be so much money to be made from this, why aren’t we gazillionaires, or even famous as figments of the mind of a computer programming genius? We could be hired out for thousands in the Hollywood party circuit…we’re being ripped off big time.
          Maybe Sam is jealous and wants to hire us???

  • Spiritual_Annie

    Wow. I get busy for a couple of days, and… I can’t even describe what’s going on. I’m quite lost. WTF happened? Except for Jethro’s inquisitiveness, there seem to be misunderstandings just everywhere.

    How can I help?

    Apparently, there was some question about me. If someone let’s me know what it is, then maybe I can answer it.

    Is there some misunderstanding I can help clear up, maybe?

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • Kristen

      Yip…wtf??? I would love to have a computer or pet alien that thinks as fast ascI can…Id be rich.
      But I noticed it a couple of days ago as well, and tried to talk to both Michelle and Sam, like Mom…seeing where it started when Michelle was a bit offensive.
      I have no idea whats going on.
      But now we are apparently programming talking to eachother….what does your programme say to talk about next?
      The weather? Well, its 10.23am here in Auckland, cold and foggy, sun is trying to get through though. Hang on, I have a hologram fake customer I need to serve, Id better go and fake that, they want to give me fake computerised fake money?
      What really confused me, is why Patrick and Michelle are being paid, and Im not. Are you, or are you just a hologram or program?
      Im livid, but do have to laugh at the absurdity….does my computer generated personality get put in one of those robots in Japan hotels? Boy..the customers would never get to their rooms, but at least I can copyright and patent ME now, you should do the same.
      Xx

      • Spiritual_Annie

        ROFLMAO! Yeah. I’m a program. I’m known all my life for not fitting in and being unpredictable, so I have a hard time coming to the same conclusion, knowing that programs do exactly and precisely the same thing given the same circumstances. Not me. That brother that was on the Debate Team was also on the Chess Team, and he’d practice against me because I hadn’t studied all the Master’s games and was unpredictable. Heck, I’ve surprised myself several times.

        Let’s see. Nope, I’m still as broke as I usually am this time of the month, so I’m not getting paid, either. And when I pinch myself, I feel it physically, so I’m in my body, at least partly. Weather? Poor Biscuit, who hates any form of getting wet outside of swimming and walking through puddles while drinking, has had to do his business in the rain. Repeatedly. And very close to home because he doesn’t like the thunder. Christie told me this area is the lightning capital of the US. It’s ferocious, with lots of ground “hits.” And I live in a tin can. But I like the sound of the rain on the tin roof. And I own it. Another pinch.

        Here in the US, the term “fake” has become so distorted, and most people aren’t even aware how much we’ve lowered the bar in our politics when it comes to truth. We’re satisfied with anonymous sources (I am only if several are all saying the same thing), we’re happy that the president didn’t live-tweet during the Comey hearing, and we are exposed to ridiculousness like the cabinet meeting where they went around the table and kissed Trump’s behind. That’s “real?” Pfffffft…

        Better get back to my Trumpwatch. One never knows when or what the next thing will be.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Kristen

          Hgoierhrhfjgooenencbcjvkxhcj?
          For non programs, that translates as ‘how does a computer programme feed biscuit?’ My poor cats…who will feed them now? Or will they be demeaned to live in a computer as well? I think Ive gone awol as well, I do everything so last minute I drive myself nuts…no wonder Sam hasnt yet published his ‘evidence’ for me being a program, that apparently he hasn’t because he likes me sometimes?
          Im not letting this go, although I can laugh now, an hour later, because its just not ok. I have vows…..ond of which is with Lord Almighty, scripture states in Isaiah “woe to you who deny justice to the innocent”, something I strongly support, no matter who the ‘victim’ is/are. Ive put a pic of a work quote card, with human fingers in it for Sam, should give him peace of mind that Im a physical person at work. What an odd turn!
          Yip, Trumpwatch….he should have gone to North Korea on a one way ticket instead of Dennis Rodman last week. My program doesnt normally talk politics, so I might need an upgrade. Do you have the contact for our black hole spaceship headquarters? I think I sort of got dumped and they ran.
          Rain on a roof…nothing quite like it. I try to stay awake in heavy rain with curtains open, but dammit, I fall asleep. Or someone presses to off button. Party poopers.
          Take care Annie,
          K

          • Spiritual_Annie

            In your instance, where you’d have to try to understand American politics, I think that’s technically a downgrade. I did have that contact info, but someone stole my cell phone. Did you know that, with T-Mobile, you have to call by phone to replace a phone that’s been stolen? I’ve been dealing with that kind of “logic” the past couple of days.

            Here is a reprieve.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Kristen

            Wow..they gave you a phone? Damn, Im so peed off now, all I got was a stupid keyboard that I wear like a fanny pack then beam my thoughts to it and watch it appear on screen. Well, of course I then have to press the button to add a few typos, take out apostrophies so it looks like a lazy human, change words to NZ spelling like the word colour, search google for random things humans might say and make sure I dont lie….if you never lie you have so much less to remember.
            I do struggle with one thing though, you may be able to help with, as a female altered version…….why do I still buy tampons, and where do they go? I tend to just tie them to the fannypack I live in like Christmas Tree decs??? People do stare in my Sims game, but I didnt come with a manual.
            Xx

        • Jethro

          How many people wouldn’t have butts if we could actually laugh one off? Whether rolling on the floor or not. It would create a new clothing department I’ll bet.

          • Kristen

            In the computer dept at Walmart, Im a non human remember. Although still waiting to hear if Im an evil alien or a program.
            Xx

          • Jethro

            We are all AI if I read it right. Wonder what part of my computer would fall off if it could laugh its butt off? Everyone is under attack don’t give it another thought. I owe an apology to true friend, but don’t recall having any outburst with Sam. Nothing I remember anyway, I thought we ended our last conversation in agreement about something. Looks like we are all destined to be judged and summarized in the near future.

          • Kristen

            Yip, you all are now. First Patrick, then Michelle, then me although Annie and I are waiting for the explanation on me….and my pay…now the rest of you.
            BUT as funny as it seems on the surface, Sam actually believes it, and seems like a sane person. Therefore, like someone else in here, is receiving wrong information from some invisible force, and thats really scary for that person, they are still a person.
            Remember I told you about not trusting ‘invisibles’ and tell most to fork off this week…….see what happens when people are trusting and gullible? Two examples in one small website.
            Sam clearly believes that what he is seeing or told is the truth about us SOOOO whats the agenda of whomever is now deceiving Sam…so much he thinks they are more believable than the concept we are people typing. What would be the odds of any of us being programs…so small there wouldnt be a statistic, yet someone has convinced what seemed a normal sane man, that its the truth.
            See if from a counsellors perspective. What if Sam came to see you, saying this? Psychic psychology isn’t done on earth much, but its a huge problem. But Sam??????? Thats the wtf???????

          • Jethro

            I don’t find it funny at all. A counselor has no perspective of anything. A counselor helps a person to find their own truth, not give them one. A Psychiatrist is qualified to decide whether a person is a nut job or not. If a counselor suspects insanity, a referral will be made for psychiatric care and the person will then be diagnosed and hopefully treated. Also, trying to help someone that has not requested help is unethical, not to mention a computer site is no place for counseling. Though, I’ve heard of Skype being used as a long distance tool for certain clients.

            I don’t know if Sam believes his statements or is just entertained at the moment.

          • Kristen

            He must believe to type statements naming people.
            Not psychiatric help…its spiritual or psychic stuff, so much harder, lots end up diagnosed with medical problems, when its actually from an invisible external source, rather than from themselves.
            People just have no idea how dangerous associating with anyone or anything invisible is, you would be shocked.
            If a demon says theryre dead grandma, or an angel, and act like it, people believe them…the aftermath is horrific.
            Xx

          • Jethro

            He knows peoples names and he’s calling everyone out, by name. Not necessarily anything due to evil spirits getting to him.

            There is a reason why we are not supposed to communicate with spirits. I have no desire.

            Psychiatry only matured in the 70’s and still hasn’t entirely grown up. But they are learning. Somebody found out that patients respond better to kindness than torture, go figure. For some it’s a chemical imbalance, others are distortions created through trauma, others were just taught the wrong thing and believe through the path of reward and punishment. I don’t think too many spiritual cures have made it to the professional table yet. The help you refer to is practiced, but not learned in college. That may be incorrect… do Catholics go to college to learn exorcisms? I have no idea.

            You cannot argue with Sam at this point. You might coax a reason out of him but there is nothing you can do about it anymore than I can remove the “coincidence” of things going nuts after you revealed a problem, which then got worse. He’s on a mission.

          • Kristen

            I know…Im awaiting the next saga BUT he has said the schmoderator turned up when he did????? Im 100% sure the schmoderator was a manual person, and it ‘felt’ from Europe. Thats what Im perplexed about…wrong info through visions, well, thats probably normal, to insist its right isnt normal. Day or awake visiobs should be treated no different to dreams.
            But Im trying to see the point…..he seems to be doing everything he has complaints about. If one of us got too peed off we would leave…..driving people away. Putting that stuff on this site effectively sabotages it, and will drive people away, out of fear he could target them, believing any of it, or thinking he has the means to snoop at people.
            The very thing he thinks that we, as apparent aliens or computer programs, are trying to do…sabotage Neales site.
            Im too ‘detectivey’ to not try to understand. Understanding things is in my nature.
            Is he, in an odd way, saying he was the schmoderator, that hes a non human, and hes here to sabotage this site driving people away? Thats astounding psychology..many of us here have studied some form of psychology, I did lots of Kabbalah psychology papers.
            Or is he hinting at Scientology, but afraid to say it?
            Why say this week he used to be into conspiracy theories but now isnt, now reveal an apparent one?
            Why say all of this as a person hardly anyone knows very well, thats incredibly confident, and odd?
            As an atheist, why now say hes speaking out in support of Neale?
            Why has his english downgraded a bit this week?
            Why spend so much time on this, especially all patricks postings on other sites? This is a tiny site?
            Why now decide Im a computer or alien when I pointed out some things about Michelle and long threads were incorrect?
            Why say the long threads only started when he came in and spoke up? It was just chatter, a lot me as work was quiet. Does he think it was like the Trueman Show movie, that he all got an alert he was on his way so to quickly get chatting and pretend to be real?

            I love a good mystery, but this could swing either way. 5 ways. And will drive me nuts.
            It could be severe psychiatric paranoia or somehow hes convinced that people he was friendly with have morphed into ‘ITs’ which is a very severe disorder. Hes being deceived by an entity. He is asking for help but expressing whats happening to him as us doing it like a code or he’s behind a lot. Some of what he says may be true, but its him and others he knows. Or for some reason he hates Neale and is seeking revenge in sabotaging this site, someone really angry with Neale.
            The only option already dismissed, is that hes right. I tested him saying I was an open book, go for it to clear me…and his findings were that Im a computer programme or alien. Obviously wrong.

            Hopefully he gets the help he needs, or is uncowardly and explains himself. I hate cowards, especially male cowards.
            Xx

          • Jethro

            The problem in the programming did get worse during or shortly after our first conversation but existed well before, in small amounts and has cleared up for the most part. Few people log in here and are instantly speaking their truth, fitting in is more important. We get to meet the newest ideas of a person until they are comfortable to discuss old ideas. The amount of so called “off subject chatter” makes it hard to stay focused on specific ideals if someone is not accustomed to accepting a high frequency of colorful thoughts. To me, it’s God in action and something to study. Humans being humans. Isn’t that wonderful? Humans are God in action. Some may feel that if we are not talking about God, that God has left the building, believing somehow that God is a third party and removed rather than all parties and expressed. We are logged in here to express ourselves and learn something too. I mostly am trying to get another understanding. I most certainly did not expect “this” and became upset myself. I took it out on a true friend, I realized I needed to look at myself and my actions, not look at what a true friend was saying. I was speaking to a person not a computer screen. Sam is upset over something, he will ultimately leave, or learn something in this process and make a change. That change will either keep him around attacking or he will realize that this is a group of humans being humans and try to strengthen his thoughts that he entered with.

            In the beginning I entered this place Thinking Neale was above in his thoughts. Every morning I get a little uplifting note letting me know what got wants me to know. I’ve read the articles every Saturday morning, which are the ones above without the ability to give our thoughts, and was star struck when he began to communicate a few months ago. He was explaining things to people and sharing his thoughts. I made a statement about sales and “the hero” was not kind or understanding. Neale didn’t give me a little bit of wisdom, he gave attack in defense, I felt anger from him and the average human response. After that, everything I saw was defense. What is the purpose of living your life to give a message if your not going to set the example of the message your giving. Anyway, the point is, we are all human and not one person on this earth can maintain a Godly view at all times. Sam needs to complete his process. Continue to do what you do, try to get to the bottom of the mystery. Ultimately you will find a human being human.

          • Kristen

            Thats a good posting….and makes a point Ive tied to make…that we are humans, with deliberate human emotions, reactions, views, experiences and personalities. Sadly, attaining true human nature is a struggle for people, when people have lost the ability to speak freely, think fast for themselves without the need to just quote others (which should rather be translating the words of others into their own words then explaining in tbeir own words-this expresses the human trait of full understanding), cant partake in general conversation and speak of the world, humans and God in a detached manner, rather than including themselves…then they have a long way to go to even restore themselves to true human nature.

            Interesting what you wrote about Neale….but remember he is publishing channelled information he receives, the messenger…hopefully in his own life, away from the books and CwG Neale is still himself….as normal as we all should be. I dont see the books as Neale, hes just someone typing channelled information as many do…does that warrant worship, being idolised, groupies, exhaultion and being defined as a hero as you said…..nope. Would the true Neale ibspire people to be inspired..I assume so, but he rarely peeks out. I hope his true identy is Neale a human, rather than Neale of CwG books, or hes lost something incredibly valuable in the process….himself. No God should take YOU away in order to be their well paid slave, typing away, and logging in to websites you clearly have no interest in and dont even bother moderating, I have zero respect for Neale now, he is an appalling ‘host’ so probably shouldnt be here anyway. The messages in others are all automated at set intervals…perhaps Neale has become the programme? Haha. Sam can look into that…seeing if Neale responds will be priceless.

            “Fitting in is more important”?…I havnt thought about that. Fitting in to what? We are just random strangers, or strange randoms, talking on and off subject, but YES true human nature IS God in action in our lives. If we were meant to be boring robots we would have been made that way, children arent, therefore we arent. Children are made to chat, be honest, express themselves, laugh, play and have emotions….human nature.
            Yip, humans are interesting, and your post is why I studied psychology the Kabbalic way..psyche means of the soul, therefore generally studied true human nature how we are made, and matters bestowed on us and Earth, like the roots of addictions and what part of original human nature allows addictions when linked with a physical brain etc.
            Like you, people fascinate me, but its hard to be interested in anything if you cant actually see it!!
            I didnt see the exchange between you and Matai????, a true friend. But sometimes people just dont get along, and we should instinctively know it. I know Marko and I would clash, and there was one in here typing as Awareness that I just wanted to shake and tell to wake up and find his/her own opinions. A brainwashed zombie. Actually I felt absolute hatred to them, probly more the entity it quotes all the time and if face to face probably would have wanted to knock them out cold….we dont have to get on with everyone, nor like them, and True Friend was irritating asking for his time machine to rewind back to kindergarten (I asked, he explained).
            But as long as people are human beings, being human, it doesnt matter who we like and get on with….for many relearning human should be their top priority. Including Neale, rather than speaking with his books as a wall between himself and people. We cant understand God or anything around us if we dont understand ourselves first.
            Xx

          • Jethro

            The hero… he had great statements which were uplifting. Patrick and I have had this conversation, but I looked up to Neale for writing his books. I needed to read his thoughts to get out of a bad place I was in. I was not connected to reality anymore. Actually felt I had made a bad connection in one of the houses I lived in and it stuck. I found the power to move away from it or at least have power over it. I actually felt that my watchers had abandoned me but are back now, only different. Could be that I’m different. Anyway, my buddy Patrick as you say, gave the credit back to me. People may not agree with his belief but he’s a good man. I have found the good in all people here, even a true friend. All spirituality and religion is controversial. Can we have love in our hearts for all views? Yes. We can care for each person as the humans that they are whether believing in God, or unicorns, or thinking that everyone is an artificial intelligence with a vengeance for humans. I have been there. There was a time when I didn’t believe anyone was who they said they were unless face to face. So I was very self guarded. I have been treated with a great deal of respect hear for just being myself. What greater reward can anyone receive? Be the grandest greatest version of yourself and people will be the greatest grandest version of themselves in return. It’s an unwritten law that people follow unintentionally. It’s a natural human response. Do unto others and it shall be done unto you… most of the time.
            Fitting in… to all of this, that’s what. Everyone needs to be with like minded people at some point or another to keep there sanity. It’s another human trait. Confirmation. We need it. To know we are not alone even when surrounded by a crowd of people. It also helps us define who we are. All alone, we are what we think and that’s not always a good thing. We make friends with deflated balls and call them mr. Wilson without being stranded on an island.

            “Jethro is a plumbing counsellor, and just being Roy this week.” … hopefully every week. I was the Marlboro man for a few months once, people liked my hat and pointy boots I think. Course I smoked at the time and it was rare to see me without a cigarette hanging out of my mouth. Yuk!

          • Kristen

            Cheers Charles. : )
            Yip, we do change ‘watchers’, overseers, guides etc as we move forward, a bit like a chain gang.
            Fitting in…..thats called talking…and people talking to you first so you feel noticed as the first step. Although sometimes backfires since Neale has no staff in here. I chose to include Sam, just with a name in the sitcom names, since he was new, just to include him. Now look. Clearly I should have ignored him completely, lesson learned, its Neales job to make new people feel noticed in here, not mine. So many new people comment in here, no one replies to them, never heard from again. Something I feel Neales fans like Marko should do, meet and greet. Someone called Erin used to for a few years. As soon as she stopped, a pattern followed.
            Im actually thinking of experimenting…with silence. Just to see what happens. You and Patrick are speaking again, Annie chats with you and is now tolerating Patrick, and Marko speaks on topic. See how it goes. My bets are on you and Annie carrying the entire thread. Hopefully new people will step in, who may be silent observers. With what he has allowed to happen in here, Neale certainly needs to step up as a host and try to get new participants, from his huge fan base, or at least choose ‘discussable’ topics that hold peoples interest for more than one comment like he used to. There is so much going on in the world that people would want to discuss IF he wanted on topic discussions in here of course.. Zero respect for Neale and his staff right now, Im just glad I was never a fan! : )
            Xx

          • Jethro

            Cheers Kirsty,
            I consider this place a place of self discovery. Having a remark from the author now and then is nice but not required all the time. I don’t know actually who the fans are of Neale’ writing, Annie? maybe Michele? Myself, ah yes. Myself. Now there’s something I know the answer to. I am an admirer of the Ideas. Fanatic is too strong of a word. It was here I made a few self discoveries and that’s the point, the point of life even I believe. If you yourself enjoy the thought of kindness towards self and others, you are an admirer yourself. You made a discovery about yourself in here too, or you wouldn’t be here. You enjoy being here regardless of your lack of respect or not being a fan of Neale.

            Having discussions about world affairs is redundant. In this space we are to learn how to deal with our thoughts about world affairs, not to try and solve them. The point is to remove the anger and negativity generally attached to such topics. Things that most of us truly have no control over, yet we are angry and upset. For what purpose if we can not or will not do anything about it. Move on.

            More important lessons can be had, how to handle the small things that people avoid, by concentrating on world affairs. Those little things are the building blocks of the mind. The little things conduct how we handle the big things. Why try to build a house if you haven’t learned to drive a nail? You can drive a nail all by yourself, but building a house is best with several people to help and give an opinion, especially if some of those people have experience. It should be our goal to pass on our knowledge. In reality if we learn to build a house through trial and error we will learn with some wasted lumber. Lessons of life are not so easily recovered. Look at how many relationships are failing with children caught in the middle. A lot of courting should be done, without sex, to get to know if someone is a match. It’s a lost art. Today, we figure if the sex is good and we get along in short spurts, we’re good to go. Raising children, Yeah we are seriously missing something there. I enjoy an outspoken person with a strong will, but remove respect, add some rudeness, and a lack of general caring for anyone other than self and you have todays children… where I have lived anyway. But, I had an interesting thought the other day, I’m getting old. Older people tend to notice that more. So maybe nothing has changed. Experiencing a little deja vu. Maybe I’ve written that before. hmmm, rambling on.

            Anyway, what can we learn if we see the same thing day in and day out. Why travel the world if not for new experiences and understandings. So on topic isn’t always the best conversation. But, Are we not talking about life all the time, Do we believe in life? Do we communicate with life? Do we feel worthy to be alive or are we willing to live? I say we are on topic. I say Sam is on topic.

          • Kristen

            Hey, I just noticed this one as Im cleaning out my inbox, weekly chore!
            Neale had different headers, probably before your time, that had lots of people talking to eachother. A few about gun laws, legalising marijuana, some asking about peoples experiences with God first hand, another asking for details if anyone had been present when anyone died etc. Matters that encouraged the fine art of conversation together, he had lots of people feeling they were included as they were general topics that in some way could affect every persons life. I guess it encouraged people who would no generally be comfortable chatting with strangers like we are. Hes lost those people in here. Yip, any conversation, human to human, is on topic, but we are comfortable just chatting, many people online arent, they need a set topic for the confidence to be included. A personal door opened for them, rather than just a general open door with many different conversations going on, where it may appear everyone knows everyone else. Ive never once seen a newbie reply to a post saying “Hi Jethro, Im …….., then chat”.
            Which is sad when Neale apparently has a huge customer fanbase. Heck, when we even discuss music or movies, people dont just join in. Neale should start a thread on music, it has huge spiritual meaning, that might bring ‘observers’ out.
            Im the same age remember…yip, we’re getting old, and agree about relationships etc now as youve pointed out….as an old divorced cynic.
            Anyway, Im out of here, nice chatting and take care.
            Xx

          • Jethro

            This site is very concealed, I can’t remember how I found it actually. I had to look for it after years of reading the emails from Neale. There might be more people joining in here if it were easier to find. Every Saturday morning I get an email that posts the topics we see above, there is not a link to here from the place called “the bulletin”. They are clearly the same bulletin with a change in names if Neale has spoke to someone personally here. though the name Jethro showed up a few months ago when he recognized a post from myself. There would be more people here if it were easier to find or advertised. There is another site called CWG Connect. I have not been able to sign in due to a weird log in problem and I’m not creating a new email to get in. Being new in there I would just read a while, seeing what’s going on. If they are being human I’ll join in, if it’s all nice, nice, nice, with the belief that talking about negative things is wrong, I don’t belong. The world is negative through my eye’s. here is an excerpt from Neale;

            “If anything, things have gotten worse. Now I know there is a school of thought out there that we are not supposed to say anything about this. Shhhhh! Talking about it only aggravates the situation, increasing the negative energy! So speak only about positive things! That’s how the new New Age motto goes. But it is not “throwing around negative energy” to say that the train is coming and we might want to get off the tracks.”

            Nope, gotta talk about the bad, anger filled stuff too. How will we learn to deal with and even remove our thoughts if we don’t talk about the Elephant in the room. I hope those who have some deep seated fears and anger speak out and deal with it. Sam had a process he needed to go though, his path hit a thorn patch and he made it through. We all go through it. So is it chit chat or personal growth. Every conversation from those in here is a path to growth, Its a safe place.

            Humans are like a sine wave in constant movement having ups and downs. A person on the high side may find a problem with one on the low side or vice versa but it’s human and we cannot always be on the high side. So we learn to communicate and deal with each other, with acceptance, a lost art. Something I have received a lesson in here.

            I had no idea there was a new age thing because nothing is new. New Age… Old thoughts coming to light. The reason I am here is because I found a man who was saying what I thought, my own ideas at the time not discussed with anyone. I had no Idea how popular Neale was or how many books he had written. In 2009, I thought he was a new author. New Age… I disagree.
            Ok I’m done rambling.

            Kirsty, get your stuff put back together, get settled and we will talk to you later…
            Take care.
            RCJ

          • Jethro

            For the record, I have believed the shadorater to be a glitch in the programming from the start. Not a person at all.

          • Kristen

            Getting there, read my reply to him above, Ive remembered the trigger. Which unfortunately adds another element…..this is the same behaviour that Patrick expressed??????? I hope its just classic copycatting or a trigger, I really dont want to even think about anyone else in this.
            Ill get there, at least Ive cracked the game, but there could be a weird twist.
            Xx

    • Kristen

      Hi Annie,
      Just to let you know Im leaving. I was a few weeks ago but stayed to see what was up with posts being deleted.
      Im starting to get hugely peed off with someone and their false beliefs about me, not Sam, and am out of patience. But more than that, house is fixed after floods, rubbish skip is here, so I can get sorted and life out of messy chaos…finally! Yay.
      Take care Annie, keep writing, and stay happy!
      Let me know if you receive that check from the non existant aliens!
      Xx

      • Sam

        “Just to let you know Im leaving.”

        I for sure should do other things as well for awhile, this place gets really intense at times. But I’ll see how the dice roll. But you and me, Kristen, we are not finished. It doesn’t feel like it at least. So, catch you later, okay? :) I be waiting :)

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Kirsten,

        I’m sorry to see you go. I learned from you, and enjoyed the side trips and humor. Glad things are getting back to normal at home. Hope you stop in just to say​hello every once in a while.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Sam

          I turned “Totalt Patrick” on you, didn’t I? Sorry. Won’t happen again.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            No need to apologize for something over which you had no control. I was more concerned and confused than angry. It didn’t feel like you at all. I was at a loss of how to reach you, and I’m grateful Kirsten could.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

  • Sam

    Gooooood moooorning blog! Rise and shine :)

    A big day. D-day. The final explanation.

    Is it just me being paranoid? Well, it’s actually a fair question. If I was in someone else’s shoes, I would certainly take that into consideration. So please do. My conclusions, however, have nothing to do with fears or personal vendettas. Like, what should I ever have against Annie, personally? This is pure logic and intuition working together, like I always have done, making out puzzles. And quite frankly, the most uplifting, sparkling energy and reward in the world. This being just one more challenge to solve, and nothing else going on.

    I’ve been to many places over the years, not unlike this one. But the first time I’ve noticed something wrong. And to put forward the final conclusion first, and the explanation right afterward, you are all (you know who I mean) been recruited with the exchange of money, to put on a show of sabotage. And, of course, those with the money to spend, also with the support of advanced software.

    Show of sabotage, to have this place lay waste. Having every normal person run like hell. This is a true madhouse. Patrick, his real name is “total war”. Michelle, her real name is “total looney”. Kristen, her real name is “total loco”. Annie, her real name is “total gross”. Gross, because she forces everyone to listen to what makes the stomach turns, over and over.

    Just one of those characters, and you would have every normal running. To have em all is like the “total jackpot”. The surer thing.
    Jethro, on the other hand, is more of a caretaker. Always there, waiting, on guard, and gather the troops when a new schmuck like me shows up. When I did show up, the first time, this was like a nuked area. Only 10 comments a column at times. Then soared to 700-800 hundred a column right after (before some got deleted again). Quite the enormous coincidence.

    Oh, and I got the whole shebang, right in my face, one by one: War, Looney, Loco, and Gross. Even a bonus character, just in and out, slamming the doors, Gross Prophet. What a show. What a performance. Too bad for them I ain’t normal, and stuck it out anyway :)

    Still, I was out of the blog for quite a while. Just fast reading through the mail notifications. Then suddenly my name got mentioned many times over. Of course, to feel me out, to see if I was still around. Or else they would quit their act, and go back to the status quo. But yes, I came back, and just because of that :)

    In a nutshell, both Kristen and Michelle has the same line of work in their real lives. To talk some blah, blah, and from that get money. Hardly any difference from what they do in here. Just another gig. Certainly, Annie was in the need of money, and good with words as she is. And Patrick, all the time about earning that extra buck. Yes, this is real people. With real needs. Making a living. Recruited and signed up, for this very purpose on this blog, and others, with the support of advanced software.

    So, this puzzle is solved. Yay! But I am not here to judge. At all. If this is something Neale Donald Walsch wants, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. None of my business.
    But I am not done before I get that Neale has got my concerns. As only fair for him to know. I need this feedback before I go. Either here, somewhere, or to my email (samnoha@mail.com). This post will reemerge until I do.

    So, Neale, what to make out of all this, you might ask yourself?
    If I may be so bold, I would suggest taking out a notebook and a pencil, writing down a question about me being the real deal. I am sure there will be an answer :)

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Well, if somebody’s supposed to be paying me, they forgot to mail me the checks. I am a writer, so it makes sense that I’m “good with words.” I’ve also read a lot, which can add to how well one writes.

      I’ll take “Gross” as a compliment because it’s part of my purpose to point out what my reality has been and is, and if that makes people uncomfortable, it’s because they have issues and their reaction is pointing that out to them. And maybe they should have issues with some of what I’ve experienced. It’s appalling to me how Americans are blind to how children are treated by a portion of our own families, our own communities. In my opinion, it should make people scream and vomit and sob when they hear my story. That’s a human reaction.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Kristen

        Hi Annie…..we got promoted. From computer programmes yesterday, to now real people doing a paid job…thats something I guess, for us, as well as for Sams mindset. Progressively realising no computer programs can ‘think’ I assume.
        As sad as it all is, its actually a compliment. Like you, I read a lot as a kid, so I guess Sam doesnt quite realise that most avid readers can also write, and fast.
        Hopefully Neale will chat with him…and especially ask Sam to get our employer that we were unaware of, to pay us, mine will be 5 years backpay, some weeks maybe 8 hours a week, most just one or two, often not working for months at a time at all. What shall we charge for such talent….I bet Patrick charges $100 an hour, we’ll ask for that? Or bill Neale!!
        Take care,
        Xx

    • Spiritual_Annie

      I’m going to reconsider my reply.

      Sam, what is it in you that is so hurting or so damaged that you would create circumstances that ended up in you opposing each of us? Why is it that you would create such a fantastical story where the only one not part of a paid conspiracy is you?

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Sam

        There are several things not adding up regarding you, Annie. And some already mentioned. But there is one more major thing.
        Every time you tell your gross stories, what do you really say? What is it you really telling us? And this over and over endlessly? I will tell you. Your task is to hammer in that God is a sadist. That is what all your stories very graphically telling us. “God is a sadist. God is a sadist. God is a sadist.” And never let us forget it—as the goal.
        The next time you are on about it, we will all know the real reason. I am sorry if this may harm your income. But you are not playing fair. And I’m sure you and your gang are operating on other blogs as well.

        • Kristen

          Annies stories are not about God being a sadist….like everyones stories, they are about reincarnation and how screwed up crazies are still reincarnated. Something I clearly dont support.
          If reincarnation didnt happen, lives would be different, then all would certainly see that God isnt a sadist.

        • Spiritual_Annie

          When have I ever blamed God for my circumstances?

          God is most certainly not a sadist. God, or as I put it, Divinity is the same thing as Pure Love Energy is the same thing as Creation is the same thing as Divine Energy. I don’t personify Divinity, so I’m trying to cover all the bases here.

          Because I don’t personify Divinity, I don’t assign it human traits. For me, that would be as ridiculous as saying electricity gets anxious or magnetic forces are unhappy.

          I don’t even consider men to be sadists because I don’t generalize. Not even most powerful men. Just like not all priests are molesters. And not all Vets have violent flashbacks.

          The person responsible for my circumstances is me. It’s all about how I choose to see it, and use it to awaken people. It is ultimately a story of triumph.

          I don’t know where it is that this is coming from, and I’m concerned about you.

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

    • Kristen

      Sam,
      Im actually taking that as a compliment, that you cant possible process Im a real person. And that you think I could be a writer…..thank you, seriously. Loco is probably a compliment as well.
      I even put a quote card for you in my profile picture, just to calm your odd paranoia. Im a cake decorator with my own small shop, if you’d done your research you would have known that from in here. No money from any other source….please chase that up next time you go to this alien headquarters in your imagjnation…much appreciated, Annie wants her pay as well. What youve said is complete crock BUT AT LEAST NOW YOU ARE REALISING WE ARE REAL PEOPLE when yesterday we were just computer programmes.

      Sam, please listen. You need help. I have no idea of aything about you, but can say I only would have mentioned your name because when you said Sam I Am I found it hilarious, so when someone mentioned this was a sitcom, I wrote there could be a Sam Sam I Am with green eggs and ham….surely you know the Dr Seuss book. Thats it…I dont know you. The long threads were just chatter, like a lot are.
      Going back to your first paragraph, Sam, you are the only one not seeibg that you are somehow being deceived by dark entities, or have slipped into a severe paranoia. I somehow get the gist that this is something about Annie, you seem to really want to convey her as isolated from us, until she spoke up, and now shes the enemy as well. Thats your pattern, I became the enemy in your mind when I corrected from info about Michelle. I just read Jethro writing something about people fitting in in here….is that it? You feel excluded from general chatter or dont fit in? How can anyone not fit in when its just strangers chatting?
      All I can probably say, is similar to what I try to tell Michelle occasionally, Sam you are showing complete strangers your mental health state, if in a normal state of mind or around physical people you will regret this. The problem you are seeing is at your end Sam.
      Please get help, or focus on realising you need it as the first step. Surely you are aware that not one of the people going through your current experience realises its paranoia, hallucinations, deception etc. They all think like you…that its your reality so must be real.
      Good luck Sam, and perhaps lay off the green eggs for a while.

    • Jethro

      Your not a schmuck Sam. Understanding your message in the beginning was a bit tough for me, but I thought at least we were on good terms last time we talked.
      Caretaker… that’s what my family says too. They say I’m always to the rescue when someone has a problem. Is that a bad thing?
      As I told Kirsty earlier, we are all human and human is how each one of us acts. Baffling isn’t it? So different, yet so alike?

    • Kristen

      Sam…Ive thought back, in trying to help you, everything has a trigger or a core somewhere.
      I think this mental ‘game’ started or was triggered back a couple of weeks, when Patrick started his ‘thing’ of not liking people using false names.
      He actually accused Jethro of being both Jethro and Sam, that was the first I had heard of you. That must be the trigger, as this crock all seems to be an extension of that…people concerned or paranoid that others are not who they present themselves to be!!!!!!! Which you have now taken to extremes. In fact there are similarities with that ‘episode’ a lot with you….only you can explain why!!!
      In that discussion Jethro denied the accussation, and you spoke up saying you were Sam, saying “Sam I Am”.
      Then someone mentioned it looked like a sitcom, where I responded with characters, Annie liking Pebbles from the Flintstones etc, and you as the Dr Seuss Sam….Sam Sam I Am green eggs and ham, amonsgt others, being silly.

      Only you know what is going on with you…or don’t know, but its all clearly stemmed from that one discussion, this is now an extension of that, weeks later. Negative ‘spiritual’ matters DO manifest like that…my guess is something has latched on to you, playing dangerous games, starting with that information that you already have. Whether its an external force, or from deep within you, its a common game that entities play, theyre too thick to start from scratch, with no free thinking mind like humans have.
      Its what I call the inside out irony game…everything is presented as backwards, people are deceived into believing normal is abnormal and vice versa, good is bad and vice versa, innocent is guilty, and vice versa. An ongoing thread game, eventually revealed when theyve won….always an inside out irony reveal…..in this case, that they, or you, are trying to sabotage Neales site. And presenting your fake findings may well do that if Neale doesnt take responsibility for this in here. YOU are the one trying to sabotage this site, or the vulnerable gullible one being groomed first with conspiracy books before bam…you’re a ready ‘host’. If I was as paranoid as you I could write a story on why its all you, using your own methods…including what you stated is always a give away….like you mentioning you used to be into conspiracies, but not now. WHY say that?????

      Sam….two options here. Grow up, accept youve been conned and ffs stay away from all ‘invisible’ forces, and get help before this paranoia is your longterm state. OR you know exactly what you are doing, again, grow up.

      • Kristen

        Sam. And stage three…Kabbalists know with hard work, mysteries take 3 stages to crack. God helps those who help themselves….read Neales thread Sam, it explains how God is present, whichever God.
        God has given me the final answer on what has happened, since I bothered to put in the hard yards, presenting it to Him, wait to ‘feel’ a smile, then viola, the final answer appeared in my mind telepathically. The method those of good higher powers work…not through visions and crock Sam. You said you’ve done this before yet do not realise how the powers of good work. Dont play with fire.

        Youre the target, not us or Neales site, thats just a cover up front to drive you nuts, and it worked. Easily unravelled as its clear you are following a pattern in here…Patricks patterns as I spotted easily so knew the answer would be in here somewhere. Everything has a core, trigger and a trail.
        You can find what you did wrong, someone bigger and stronger than you is reacting, with karma in a very tough form that only you can fix…or go crazy. All craziness is spiritual based.
        You broke basic respect etiquette, forum etiquette, and personal etiquette. It involved the pleasure ‘situation’, where I tried to warn someone what could happen, but you took advantage of them not understanding why I told them to change their word choice. It was funny, but you then blamed me. You also ignored them mentioning they had a soul twin, around a lot in spirit, and clearly possessive. You basically implied cyber smut when someones soul twin was around and they are pissed. Google soul twins if you dont know what they are. You also failed to just accept someone for how they are, different, mocking them and implying addictions. They have been in Neales forums for years as a fan, thats what these sites are for. If you want to help someone, as I try, then go for it including protecting them from themself, but to insult someone you dont know is poor ettiquete on every level.
        Youve peed of some strong beings…..good luck trying to fix it, I cant help you sorry, they are reacting, and driving you nuts to teach you a lesson is their way…especially the lesson to never delve into the places youve been using as a playground. I can only suggest prayer or seeking spiritual protection for yourself.
        The big lesson is trust…dont trust most stuff going on.
        Good luck,
        K

  • Kristen

    Neale,
    Can you please be a responsible site host, and email Sam as he has requested. He clearly has a problem, and Im sure most people in life would agree thats its irresponsible to allow people to publically display their mental states, as well as personal email in any open forum.
    Leaving this undealt with, could potentially do exactly what Sam thinks others are doing…sabotage your website and drive new people away, other than the human aspect, where its just ‘wrong’. You have so few contributors in here now anyway, surely you want new ones, and to retain the old. We’re all hardy, with psychology learnings, others may not be so tolerant or resiliant.
    Take care,
    K

    • Jethro

      “most people in life would agree thats its irresponsible to allow people to publically display their mental states”… Kirsty. you forgot to specify which mental state on display that creates the irresponsibility on Neale’ part. It could be the difference between one conversation and many as we all have a separate mental state.
      An interesting question came about during a lecture I was listening to, How do we determine who is insane and who is not? By todays standards, The psychiatrist setting with a group of declared insane patients is the insane person. All that is required is thinking differently from the majority.

      Each one of us differs by quite a bit in our ideas about spirituality. Sam is expressing himself as everyone else is. What’s the harm in letting him do so? Is it emotional discomfort? If someone experiences emotional discomfort, which creates emotional discomfort, does everyone involved now experiencing the same problem regardless of it’s origin, have the same problem and is now displaying the same emotional/mental state? Fear/Pain?

      • Kristen

        Clear paranoia, thats all.
        But now Sam finally sees how upset Michelle is, and putting the blame on me hes removed all his posts about it anyway.
        Hopefully hes learned the lesson in not allowing some things to affect his view on others, but Karma has kicked him in the butt.
        Have to delete the posts about it now, now Sam appears to have done or it all reads out of context.
        Xx

        • Sam

          “and putting the blame on me”

          I wasn’t. I was talking about me, mainly.

          • Kristen

            Michelle is upset, and blaming me.
            Either right your own wrong or own it at least

          • Sam

            She certainly blames me too. It’s a long piece. But, she as well had some crazy going on and would understand that such things can happen. I guess you are deleting posts. Should turn out okay in the end.

          • babybleustardust

            I am not blaming anyone, Sam. I think all should stop pretending to be psychologists. Enough said. :)

          • babybleustardust

            I am not upset. Dear God. I have through too much to ever let a thing upset me. I honor how Neale deals with stuff like this. Sometimes silence is best. Love to all :)

      • Kristen

        See….now hes acknowledging a crazy mental state at the time!!
        : )

        • Jethro

          Cool, that means he’s in a not crazy mental state then. Good news.

          • Kristen

            Exactly, a clear indicator it was a spiritual or psychic thing as I thought from the start remember, rather than needing counselling or psychological help.

          • Jethro

            Just happy he feels much better now. Actually spiritual/psychic problems are counselable (I made a new word!) since the counselor helps the client figure out his or her own issues. And providing the counselor is working within the scope of practice, it’s possible and ethical.

            Are you about ready to release yourself from all of this? No need to stear a car that has stopped moving.

          • Kristen

            Exactly..but spiritual stuff needs to be understood and nipped in the bud urgently, before it develops into mental health issues. While its still an ‘external’ issue, not internal. The same as scizophrenia or hearing voices, and especially ‘multiple personality’ disorders. They all start when under extreme trauma, the past lives of a soul fragment and kind of go awol. Easily treatable in the first month before it affects the brain and head mind…then it becomes psychiatric. I know Neale teaches that there is no such thing as evil or bad..the irony of it first hand in here.
            Yes, I got to the bottom it, explained stuff to Sam in the three puzzle solving method that he should know as a ‘puzzle’ solver.
            Id moved on an hour later, but needed to ‘solve’ it like a mystery, as I said…too many possibilities to not try…the unknown can become known with good old fashioned hard work and experience.
            I am leaving here though. I was a month ago. House is fixed now, lots of physical labour to do now, Ive already half filled one huge skip today. Brother in law pruned huge trees so I have all that to clean up as well…a busy few weeks as I get life back to normal!!
            Although how a computer program can lift stuff is a problem I have yet to solve. Haha.
            Take care Roy Charles Jethro
            Xx

          • Jethro

            Glad to hear life is on the upside now. You take care too Kirsty, Kirsten,
            Kristen.

  • Sam

    Hm, when looking back, this been some very strange days. The weirdest in my life. By far. So that alone makes me evaluate it very carefully. Right now it feels like a hangover. Well, without actually knowing what that is, as I have never been drunk (regardless substances) in my life.
    It was as if someone turned on a switch somewhere, having us acting out on little insignificant things bugging us, blowing it way out of proportions and at each other’s throats.
    First Michelle had the “evil ray” on her, acting out her fears, seemingly turning all crazy. Then Kirsten totally starts rambling on what it all meant, all messy, incoherent, and endlessly. I thought she for sure gone crazy too.
    And then it was my turn being crazy. Little things I normally just ignore, suddenly became the most important thing in the world. Right now I couldn’t care less. Just like before all this started happening.
    One thing is for sure, though. This place is strange. Nothing I ever experienced before. I will delete my “final explanation”. And I won’t need any feedback from Neale. Of course.

    • Kristen

      Learning curve Sam, on how to do it properly, not delve into darkness, do proper detective work and look closely.
      Karma worked fast though, didnt it. Be more careful nexttime, all is not as it seems, and evil is not in here, not one of us, we would know. And never jump to conclusions.

      • Sam

        Well, it’s not like I am all new to this. Only, it took me by surprise, that it was absolutely all the way down dark, just by looking at one person: Pat. So strong, even you got affected, somewhat.

        • Kristen

          You got it wrong on all of us Sam, I see no apologies.
          Be more careful, Ive shown you a couple of ways things can work, learn from this, and own your ‘screw up’…..look at how Michelle is blaming me!
          Own it Sam.

          • Sam

            “Own it Sam.”

            I am fine with that. This one is all on me, Michelle. Kristen just tried to figure out all the mess I was making.

          • Kristen

            Wow…youre missing the point here, and saying that to me is pointless. Talk to Michelle about your screw up, not me. Im used to her anger at me…..a year ago she asked for my help, I tried, she didnt like it, so the next day the protective pyramid shield I had visualised was removed. I had said I dont tune into people, I would just create it, and ask a higher power to place it over her house, somewhere in America. Somehow its still an issue, but im used to that and it still comes up all the time. Thats just life.

            And Im used to everyone and try to understand them, because in here we bother to take the time to get to know eachother, all different, but all human, and all on some positive similar journey of good, nothing negative at all, other than Patrick who is open about trying to ‘de convert people’.
            Own what youve done…completely screwing up.
            You didnt listen to anything, I dont know if you are paranoid by nature, but boy karma isnt fun as youll now know.
            If you bothered to get to know people, or at least read, you would have clearly seen we were all getting to know eachother, while awaiting Neales findings on posts being deleted. The Schmoderator.
            Long term people were peed off, Mewabe upped and left.
            But would also have read that Michelle was in here a lot as she is recovering from a serious car accident, that I had crap weather and was living in a mess after 3 floods waiting for insurance and new carpet plus work was quiet so had time on my hands, and Annie is writing her memoirs, at Markos prompting, with our support as Marko felt its a life people should hear about….a hero journey that many would love, and were also abused. She also managed to get herself a tablet that week, after just using a phone, and had a rough couple of years of homelessness, then losing a close friend last year, finally having her own home, with Biscuit. And now with two weeks of constant rain so a bit housebound. If this is a place where we are supportive of a stranger, and Annie can discuss things as she writes her book, thats clearly a positive thing.

            I am a puzzle solver, as you saw…..upgrade your skill and what you do…there was no puzzle here, I told you to be careful, you ignored it.there is nothing more dangerous than when ‘good’ screw up, and end up in dark places, full of lies, deception and crock. Look at the aftermath, of your unprofessionalism as a ‘worker’, probable paranoia you came in here with, and lack of normal human nature at the time.
            You screwed up Sam, own it properly, and fix it. Obviously we all have someone higher ‘leading’ or whatever us…you dont want to mess with them, never mess with the powers of good or even attempt to undo their good work, not even accidently. And never never ever ever tune into anyone or what is behind them…good spirirual work absolutely forbids that, although Michelle clearly somehow thinks I do it from what I read above. Never have, and never would. Anything you need to know will be laid out physically.
            Just learn from it, eat some humble pie, and learn to do what you do better…clearly this was all about a learning curve for you so as screwed up as this is, someones sees that seed of potential in you.
            I cant be bothered with this, rubbish skip has arrived and new carpet is laid so I can finally clean up my house and yard whole its not taining for once on a day off work…..things humans do, not aliens or computers.
            Dont brush this off Sam, Ive moved on, Ive raised kids, I move on fast and I was just peed off, then helped you explaining what it was….others may be hurt or upset. Remember the main part of karma is that you will suffer for suffering you cause.

            I would suggest a post at the top, acknowledging your screw up, that you delved into a dark deceptive place, went nuts, and karma bit you in the bum, and that you had no intention to lie about people especially personally, or destroy this thread. And apologise properly if you truly are sorry, especially about Michelle.
            K

          • babybleustardust

            Kirsten,
            Please stop discussing my name in these posts where you pretend to be a visionary that sees me at all as if you know me. Stop telling anyone a thing that is not of the light. No one ever screws up in my opinion. Sam didn’t screw up that I am aware of. What makes you believe anyone screwed up at all. Please stop sending me your energy field at all near my house. You are not there. You are not here where I am. You might think you are there but you aren’t. Take care and no hard feelings at all :)

          • Kristen

            Michelle…stop. I am not a visionary, have no idea where you live and Ive told you countless times I have never tuned into you nor anyone. Those are lies, all I know is what you have typed in here. Anything near your house is not me, I actually have no idea where you get that from, as Ive said time and time again.
            Im trying to help Sam understand what happened, so he doesnt make the same mistakes again.
            None of us have like Sam telling lies about us, and I dont like you doing it either.
            Enough is enough.

          • babybleustardust

            You said in a post today that I asked you to send energy to my house. I never did, never do desire it again. I don’t mean to be rude. I am stating in common English to please stop saying my name at all. I don’t like dialoguing with you so you don’t need to continue speaking my name here. This is an internet and to continue doing so when a blogger has repeatedly for over a year requested that you stop acting as if you know me personally, I am taking action now. That is my last conversation about it. Take care and I am not taking your continual discussion of me as kind. So be aware that in America Slander is illegal. Goodbye.

          • Sam

            “Dont brush this off Sam,”

            Well, somehow we made a special connection, Kristen. You are now very dear to me.
            I don’t’ brush anything aside. I solve it instead. And from my relatively long life, pretty much exactly your age, I for the first time have used the word “aliens”. And for the first time turned “crazy”, in my otherwise pretty square and boring life. I am somewhat over myself from what is going on at this place, as never experienced anything like it anywhere else. It’s like we are at an epicenter, where a big fight in the shadows is raging all around us, only with the short glimpse of it now and then. It’s pretty intriguing.
            Don’t be a stranger, Kristen. I miss you already :)

          • Kristen

            Sam,
            You just went about this wrong, stepping into a dark room and firing stuff out…a hard learning curve in your work, and we were all taken by shock. You know know how those dark rooms work….they dont.
            If you still have emails of those posts I did, explaining some, but very fast but thats how I think….a puzzle solver.
            Every puzzle is different as youve now learned, thrown in to the deep end without warning, that indicates to me someone believes in your potential.
            Aliens dont have the technology you would think, the internet works differently. Read things closely, everything in the ‘atmosphere’ behind will be played out in the front, Ive explained how complex games work, and lots are just games.
            You were and probably are on the right track, but got lost. The entire net is full of it, the first Apple computer sold for $666 (evils number) and logo is the apple from the forbidden tree of knowledge. Thats all Patrick is doing, and Ive told him that..he’s eating from the Tree of Knowledge, something I wont stoop to, as a Kabbalist Im on the Tree of Life. Thats clear and played out in here for all to see, no mystery or puzzles there, just let that one go, then if still trying, you can just look for other clear things. This site is constantly full of misunderstandings and false accusations, clearly being played out for you to see..work with that if you want to look into things, but be careful, and messing with good or peoples protectors is far more dangerous than messing with evil. Especially note misunderstandings over words! Constant!! Therefore the core of the background of this particular site is based on misunderstandings. Not ours, its just manifesting in the front, we’re just caught up in it all.
            It is also riddled with something we are warned against in scripture. 2 Timothy 2:14 “warn them before God against quarelling about words, it is of no value and only ruins those who listen. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid Godless chatter because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly, their teaching will spread like gangrene”, then a bit later “Dont have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lords servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Opponents must be gently instructed in the hope that God will grant them repentance, leading them to a knowledge and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do gheir will” which is why Im leaving now, there are so many disputes over the truth thats its getting really hard to just let things go.
            Plus Revelation states no liars can get through the pearly gates, nor those who practice magic arts…..so I steer completely away from anything new agey, mediumship etc, and certainly dont lie, Im already past that position, and cant let myself be dragged into dramas over this. Patrick was a devout Christian, almost an evangelist, he must know those scriptures from Timothy, but thats all thats going on with him as Patrick…just arguing with words, dont make it bigger than that.
            The strong energy you felt was just that so many are a bit psychic, Gods or guides etc are close etc…Jethro and I are piscies, so have an odd energy anyway. Just step back and like any website or anythjng online you will see the background in the forefront.
            Even youtube, look at how people unnecessarily make mean comments. Then look at the song…the song will tell you whats going on in there, or the video. Its how the internet monsters work, you dont need to crawl in dark caves etc to see anything you are curious about.
            Take care and keep safe,
            Xx

          • Sam

            “You just went about this wrong, stepping into a dark room and firing stuff out…a hard learning curve in your work, and we were all taken by shock.”

            I am glad you were taken by shock, as nothing like me at all. Thank you :) I guess you would do the same for everybody, but I can’t help taking it personally. You were there for me, really fighting, doing whatever possible. So yes, you will always have a high star in my book. Speaking of karma :)

            As it turned out not too damaging, bringing with it a great deal of wisdom, maybe nothing wrong to it at all. I was pretty much asking for it, wasn’t I, the answer to the enigma Pat. Suddenly I got a lot. Like: “Here you go. You get it now?” And I did :)

            Pat is the same thing as Neale, only the opposite polarity.

            You have a beautiful mind, Kristen, and what a heart—don’t hide it :)

          • babybleustardust

            Don’t worry. No one ever makes mistakes. That’s CWg :)

          • babybleustardust

            Kirsten, I did not blame you. I said what I meant. I took your comment a year ago as something I did not understand as funny but I don’t care to know why you thought it funny to say Mother Mary wasn’t a love of Yeshwa or Christ. You made a joke about laughing with Satan and I am laughing but I am done pretending to want to discuss people’s beliefs if they don’t align with CWG. I remember getting a little troubled by that one comment, and I shouldn’t have. Whatever you believe is okay. We each have our own belief to honor without being analyzed psychically or psychologically or in any way. :)

          • Kristen

            I know that Michelle…my comment was that for some odd reason I dont think I would personally get along with Mother Mary as a person. That was it. I never said anything else as you think….I have no idea where thats from, but definately not from me. You reacted badly, then decided I must be evil. And that some of the silly things I can see of Satan in reincarnation paths are funny, that some reincarnated souls are really gullible, that we agreed upon.
            I have no idea why you still bring these things up, but thats life.
            Smile and move forward, I did straight away.

  • babybleustardust

    Hi Neale,
    Will you please have the site moderator take down psychic readings mentioning my name. These ones pretending to view people they do not know are the ones sabotaging the site. I am not an alien, unless God is one, too. I did not meet Lucifer as someone claimed. I am not asking for her pyramid or Motherly love as she does not know me at all. I did not meet any psycho God as she claimed. I am not on anything like a substance, and I am not here to explain why I am taking vitamins or anything at all. I am one who is not rich. I am a teacher. I am not materialistic. I am a teacher. Enough said. I didn’t go out to be a big money maker. In fact, I have seen homelessness and know it well. I found peace sitting by a lake underneath the stars with nothing like money in my pocket. I don’t need money. I do not work with Patrick, whom I do not know Patrick or any other bloggers personally other than that they blog. Bloggers who pretend to really know other bloggers and present them and their profession in a negative light are actually breaking American Cyberbullying law. It is against the law to continually pretend to be someone who knows another blogger across the world and sabotage their good name on a continual basis. I do not know these people. I do not pay anyone. I do not earn money from anyone I do not know out of a workforce where I actually work. Patrick and I have disagreed on every point, and he knows this. I spoke with him about science on this blog because I have an interest in it but also disagreed publically in a debate format with his approach to science itself on this same blog. I am not a nerd. I am actually a hippy from way back. We don’t have a debate format when bloggers pretend to be able to envision another blogger personally and then slander their name and life mission itself across a blog meant to be a conversation with God. I am not an alien; I am not working with the underground agency some have talked about here. I don’t even know what that is about. I have seen talk of that on spiritual sites for years but I know nothing about those dark conspiracies. I am not a robot. I am not happy to walk in this room and have my name plastered and slandered. The one posting that I spoke to Lucifer or anything dark last year when I explicitly stated then that I don’t meet any energy insisting on meeting me in my own house. She actually stated last year that she loved Satan’s jokes for God’s sake. I took it as a joke, of course. However, she then said I was needing a pyramid of her creation all because I said I love Mother Mary. I do not believe that I need to explain my term predawn. I am not meaning that word as prelight. I am meaning it in a way that is aware that God changes as we change on Earth itself. God, He, She or it, however you think of God, has to recapitulate life lines of life energy itself as we Humans act on Earth recombining our own energy fields. Those coming near me to bring their own pyramids ought to know that I was hit by a car and am still recuperating healing In a nursing setting where old people are also healing and actually dying due to old age or injury. Four old people have died in the building where I am now. Maybe these so called psychics are meeting a ghost consciousness they don’t prefer to meet. I don’t know. I don’t hunt or mingle with dead ghosts. Some of these old people were not nice and I don’t chose to linger with their souls when they die, though I had to literally walk through their hall right after and before their death. Bloggers who speak as if they know another blogger in a personal way should stop saying you know me if you don’t see me as love. I was accused of the craziest things like I am attempting to steal your God Mind. Last I heard, you are doing well with the CWG book line and I thank you. I don’t need to write a book that has already been gifted to life. I love CWG and always will. I am also aware that these posts who pretend to zoom at others who desire no contact and have specifically stated so are actually in violation of CWG itself. It states in CWG Book 1 or 2 that psychics who zoom at others who do not ask to be zoomed near or at are not true visionaries and in the highest violation of God’s Love. Please remove all these posts that mention my name. I am sure that my tone now is not happy and I am not even trying to apologize for this at all. They are difficult to read because they are turning the site into something no new blogger would want to walk into. Why would new CWG lovers want to post a new life of love if some are blatantly and publicly humiliating bloggers who post love. I do not attack another poster and I won’t engage in any joking any longer on this wall unless I feel the honest heart of laughter with the Heart of Gold in it. Yes, God is Love and Laughter but not when the facets of Love return Fear for Love of Laughter itself. I love exchanging lovely posts with humor for God is Humor as all here know but the psychic visions which remind one of the show Cramer where the maid walks around “Oh dear. I feel another vision coming on. Let me analyze it and then send it to another who I think needs my vision of them as fear.” It is a real turn off for new and old bloggers when their visions don’t align with Love. It does not align with Love when bloggers begin to slander a name of anything or anyone. Thank you for CWG. I love it. Happy Father’s Day, Neale, and to all the other fathers here.
    Love and Peace,
    Michelle

    • Sam

      You are doing all right, babybleustardust :)
      From one energy-sensitive person to another, would you understand going temporary crazy having collided with a field of lower/negative/destructive energy?

      • babybleustardust

        :) I don’t mind. I don’t mind but there are real ghosts in the halls where I am living. I am still in a kind of old people’s home and like I said there are real not so nice souls actually crossing. I don’t meet dead people. I leave that to people who like to help souls cross. I prefer living. All the best to you :)

        • Kristen

          Yip ghosts are creepy, thats what Mewabe did, just their energy is horrible, like you feel watched.

    • Kristen

      Michelle…Ive sided with you on this, as soon as Sam made accusations about you. Sam had wrong information on us all so he reacted against me, and Annie as well.
      A learning curve for him I hope, Ive shown him how to do it properly, not delving into the darkness, and to do proper detective work, and explained a couple of ways thibgs can work. You know I dont ‘zoom’ and the pyramid was when you asked for my help, taken down as soon as you asked.
      But I was deleting my posts where Ive explained to him anyway that mention your name, I always would.
      Im not a bad guy here, you know that.
      Xx

      • babybleustardust

        Kirsten, I don’t need you to send energy my way. I really don’t recall asking for your help because I have God in my True Heart. He’s all I ever need, and I don’t really need him. I Am Him.. In fact, I asked for no help. I just prefer to smile. I hope that is okay :)

        • Kristen

          Good.
          You approached me in here early last year, under the name Giaon, talked about names, when I said Im identified by God as Amelia from the Lincoln Rhyme books, you said you knew that name and could trust me, asking for help as things were in your in your house, breaking your nativiety scene, breaking mirrors etc, so I tried. Just for one day.
          I agree…time to move on from that, I did straight away and prayed for you to Mother Mary, you were in a bad place, and until two weeks ago this has been a happy place of smiles.
          We both know negative energy can try to disestablish positive energy, and unfortunately Sam unwillingly allowed himself to be used to do just that. He should learn from it…never play with fire.
          We know good wins over evil, united front….screw this, just smile!!
          Xx

          • babybleustardust

            I knew Ameila from a book in literature by Tom Fielding. I do not recall you being asked for a thing. In fact, if you continue to talk about me as if you even know me at all, I am starting to know that you are a cyberbully and I will report it. That is all I am ever saying to you at all. I am through discussing anything with you. Bye means take care and I don’t like your energy is plain everyday enlish. Sorry but I don’t need you to say my name at all fro m now on.

  • babybleustardust

    Hi Neale,
    I think we’re all ready and willing for the worthy Step 4 and Step 5 posts on how to have a true conversation with God. I can’t wait to learn from you again :) Love to you :)

  • Sam

    What happened to me? I think I just might have the answer.
    What a place this is. The place of Neale Donald Walsch. A person that gets God’s words pretty much straight to his brain. And to be honest, I think good aliens are helping out with that.
    When I first came here, I looked at some old posts in the record. And one where Neale was exchanging views with a person, this time being very much in the “zone”, detailed, and quite a lot just pouring out. I think it was at the same time writing his last book and therefore was “connected”. That was my first thought about it anyway.
    But where else have I seen such smooth and detailed writing just pouring out? Of course, Patrick, when he is “switched on”. And now we maybe have the final answer regarding him. He is very much Neale’s counterpart, all right. Bad aliens “channeling” him everything. Exactly how Neale gets his, only, of course, from the good guys.
    So how did I figure this out? Because this is what happened to me, now. Someone was actually inside my brain putting words in my mouth. And, of course, it had to be at this place. Making me look paranoid, cocky, ice cold, and hostile, towards those I very much like the most, and in so doing destroying myself out of here. Or so they thought.
    Quite the sensation I can tell you, not being myself, but exactly how Patrick is all the time. Yuck. That’s how threaten they are with me.
    And because they were in my head, I was in theirs, and I figured out who Patrick really is.
    Oh, yes, hopefully being my own words this time. Grrrrr.

    • Sam

      Yes, this is how it all went down. I got violated by bad aliens messing with my head at Neale’s place. There you have a bunch of words I never thought I would put together. But there you have it. For real. And what a story for my grandchildren in some years.
      It was really quite a sensation, of which I would recognize if it should happen again. And therefore it won’t. They know that I know. And in any case a risky business of choice, as they get exposed. Like it did this time. The backfire turned them into coal. So then I say: What’s next? :)

      • Jethro

        Now, set aside a time to demonstrate a willingness to receive communications from God by preserving and arranging for a sufficient time for that to occur. By creating environmental conditions that allow that to occur you can deal better with the disagreements between the average human gathering, rather than concentrating on anger and that which has angered you. Regardless of any source of any received information, it must pass through your thought process before it passes through your vocal chords, or the assumed fingertips in this case. We never do what we don’t want to do. You have been forgiven.

        Have you commented on the above headline? A new train of thought could offer interesting results.

        • Sam

          “Now, set aside a time to demonstrate a willingness to receive communications from God by preserving and arranging for a sufficient time for that to occur. By creating environmental conditions that allow that to occur you can deal better with the disagreements between the average human gathering, rather than concentrating on anger and that which has angered you. Regardless of any source of any received information, it must pass through your thought process before it passes through your vocal chords, or the assumed fingertips in this case. We never do what we don’t want to do. You have been forgiven.”

          Lol. Can someone translate that to me? :)

          • Jethro

            Yes, take some time to think about everything. figure out what it was you like, figure out what it was you didn’t like and move on.

          • Sam

            Aha. And maybe the “move on” part be your main concern? And, of course, as everything now for the moment is all settled, obviously, the next new thing is all we are waiting for :)

            Btw, your plumber bills, you send out, must be pretty awesome with wordings like that, damn :)

          • Jethro

            Did I say something intelegent or stupid?

          • Sam

            Black or white? I don’t want to think in those lines. You had your reasons, and fine. And I had mine, for how I answered. And life goes on.

          • Jethro

            Agreed

  • Intrepid Planetary Occupant

    It seems as if we should get back on topic ? I am waiting for rest of Seven Steps…..

    • Jethro

      Agreed… Maybe you could share a few thoughts on the topic and redirect. Always good to get a new thought.

      • Patrick Gannon

        I’m pretty sure Neale posted another entry to this series in the weekly newsletter, but he didn’t put it up here. It was a piece about whether it was accurate to refer to his god as simply an energy or force – and he denied this. He wants a deity, a personal god. I already deleted the newsletter or I’d copy/paste it here.

        • Jethro

          This past Saturday morning? I’m pretty sure it was the one above.

          • Patrick Gannon

            The one above was posted June 1. I’m pretty sure I read another in the series in one of his recent newsletters. It’s been almost 3 weeks.

          • Jethro

            Well… I deleted all my stuff too. Guess we’ll find out Saturday. I quit looking so I wouldn’t be tempted to log out. Just let the wheels turn at there own speed. I mean really, where else am I gonna find a group of nut jobs like me of this wonderful caliber?

          • Patrick Gannon

            You guys are right. I was thinking of the post prior to this one. For some reason when I read it on my phone instead of my PC, I keyed in on a different part of the article, and thought it was a different one. I just checked the articles in this series, and you are right – there has not been a new one.

            Too bad I missed Neale’s insistence on a personal god the first time around. I would have commented further; however that thread is well beyond us now. Neale insists God is all that IS – well, in our natural world, all that IS, is made of quantum fields, which when vibrated are represented to us as particles, and we know all the ways those particles can be manipulated, and there is no room for magical forces or personal gods, or we’d already know about it.

          • Jethro

            New thought… “Neales God” at least in the beginning, and what I believe about God in my understanding. We have an indescribable need to think about all things. We think of ourselves and have an idea of that, then we think about all that exists and have an idea about all that is. We must decide for ourselves what it is that Works for us and what does not, for ourselves. Nobody, not even science can make that decision for us, we must work it out for ourselves. We create new ideas daily of what works or doesn’t, it’s always changing. Our experiences tell us what to think about everything. Our experiences and sometimes the experience of others. This whole process begins and ends in the brain. The thought process can seem like a conversation with in. A process which can appear to produce new information, but it’s not. We link different experiences together to come to a new conclusion. We have our own thoughts to communicate and the thoughts of others in which we form our decisions about what works and doesn’t work for ourselves and in the world around us. In this process we have decided there is a wrong and a right. All decisions made with an idea that it is right is said to be made while talking to God, All decisions made that usually cause harm in even the slightest way are considered wrong, therefore a decision made without God. Usually a self serving idea in which we believe we gain something without considering the wellbeing of others. It’s desirable to include all that exists in our plans in a way that works for all and there is “The conversation with God”… Not a conversation with an invisible imaginary being in the sky. Of course the world will continue to call that a conversation with God because there is no other reasonable description. I’ve looked.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Quick comment on the point about talking to ourselves in our brains. Some researchers think animals may not do this. It could be that this development was what led to our extremely rapid evolution once we started talking and could run words through our minds in conversations with ourselves in order to plan and consider different ideas. Animals do not seem to have this ability to plan far in advance like we can. In order to do that we have to have the little voices in our heads… “Hmm, I think I’ll go to the beach next weekend.” “No, we can’t do that this week, we promised to do chores.” “Yeah, but the chores can wait. How about if we do the chores after work?” “Hey that could work, let’s go to the beach!”

            How do you work all that out with only one voice in your head?

          • Jethro

            More than one voice… enter demons, the devil etc. your conversation was a discussion about what was more important, Want..”go to the beach” and Need…” do the chores”. Which idea would be self serving and which is best for all concerned. Your Conversation ended up with happy ending, but what if they had to choose between one or the other. Some would say God would have them doing chores because it served a need rather than a want.

            Our brains are very mysterious for sure, but what do we really know about the animals brain? So far we have few facts, but we’re getting there… fast!

          • Patrick Gannon

            “God” has no impact on the decision to go to the beach. The individual decides for him/herself.

            I know you think of God as your conscience, but I think of it as something my brain developed in order to deal with the world we live in. If we lived in biblical times, our conscience wouldn’t think there was anything wrong with stoning a young gal to death because she failed to produce “evidence of virtue” on her wedding night. Presumably if there was a god, and that god was our conscience, then it would have known then that slavery, sexism, racism, genocide, discrimination against the disabled, and so on, was wrong.

            Why do we think animals don’t have that second little voice? Because they don’t make long term plans. They are driven by instinct produced by evolution.

          • Jethro

            God of “Abraham” has become the fantasy of the weary and has no impact on the decision to do anything. Though the idea of such a God has a lot of impact on how the current world decides things which is why Neale is trying to change that. Many people must look to God, its hard wired into them. So why not a gentler more accepting God. Why not a God that points out People as the God that exists, at least it makes more sense than a punishing invisible imaginary being in the sky.

            I do not think God is my conscience, I think my conscience is God. I am the creator, I decide. Whatever I choose to teach about God can become the Idea of God. An invisible imaginary being in the sky becomes whatever I want to teach those who wish to listen and people would fall for it. But the truth is, there is not an invisible imaginary being in the sky. How in the world did the God of Abraham ever help you deal with the world we live in? It about drove me nuts and had me wanting the lord to hurry back to get me outta here like everyone else is thinking. It had me angry, judging that people were destine for hell, including myself.

            Our conscience is controlled by the rules of the majority, the majority is the thought that brings the rules for everyone to follow. The rules change pertaining to time and place, today, in our time in this place America, it’s illegal to kill anyone for any reason. the majority voted and made it a law. In biblical times the majority had ideas that seem cruel to us today. Unless we jump on a plane and head to the birth place of Christianity. The rules would change dramatically and the majority would agree with those rules. You keep mixing what I say about God with what you learned as a catholic about God, so it confuses the conversation. My version you find in a book about psychology, the God you present is from a religious book. Not at all the same.

            Animals and that little voice, well after some thought, and remembering the actions of my pets who learn things. they contemplate the possibilities. They know there are things to fear, they know there are rewards, they decide what is most important to there well being when asking me to feed them, and they do ask. So their IQ is in question. Even short term thoughts require that we decide what works for us or does not work. Could be that they do have a little voice. A plant reacts in such a way to touch that science says it’s screaming. Does the plant decide what was dangerous without a brain attached, or does it have a brain that we don’t understand yet? If I were a hippy I might say that sounds groovy man.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            That is groovy, man! 😀🏵🌹🌺🌻 (I always wanted to be a flower child, but missed the movement by a few years.)

            From what I’ve gleaned from my reading and experience, consciousness exists at many levels, most of which we don’t understand. Part of science leans towards consciousness emerging from the brain, but I’m not so sure.

            If consciousness and intelligence and memories are simply brain functions, I shouldn’t have continued to self-identify during my latest NDE, or those of many others. If consciousness is part of Divinity (or whatever you want to call the essential life force of our universe) and carries with it our personality and memories and intelligence, then all things in existence have some level of consciousness, even rocks and water, much less animals and plants.

            Plants react to energy. I’m not as good at it as Christie was. She could take a dying plant and by merely touching it while exchanging energy, bring them back to life in just days. I’ve felt the energy of trees since I was young, but instead of my supporting them, they lift me up. And I’ve had a thing for the energy of rocks for a long time, too. And, now that I think about it, I feel energy from natural waters, too.

            Just my two cents.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            There are some careers out there which a person must operate within their scope of practice. It means they have experience and understand something well enough that they have been given permission to of service to another with there knowledge. I have not had a NDE nor an OBE, therefore I cannot honestly comment on either. It’s outside my scope of practice. I can say it’s never happened to me that I know of. Though the transfer of energy you talk about I feel, but I describe it differently.

          • Patrick Gannon

            How odd to insert oneself into a conversation when one has blocked half of it!

            “Part of science leans towards consciousness emerging from the brain,”

            What part of science does not lean in this direction? The number of scientists who think consciousness comes from elsewhere is rapidly shrinking, as supporting evidence comes in month after month – I read the articles. It’s like young earth creation. Every month or so, sometimes more frequently, there are discoveries made that once again support evolution. Never, never, never are there discoveries that support a young earth creation. The study of consciousness is going the same way. Everything new that we learn about the brain, confirms that consciousness is a product of that brain. The scanning techniques are getting better and better and more and more detailed and with each new advance, the possibility for an otherworldly source of consciousness becomes an ever more elusive hope for those unable to face facts.

            Annie’s suggestion of panpsychism has a long history, but it makes no sense, and she would know this if she had read Sean Carroll’s book, but she was more interested in imaginary HEBs, than in challenging her cognitive bias. So is consciousness everything? (Panpsychism)

            Here’s this photon that has been zipping through the universe for the last few billion years when it was emitted from a star, whizzing along through space thinking to itself how much it can’t wait to land on my nose and help create a skin cancer. What did this conscious photon do for billions of years until life emerged that would support consciousness by developing a brain? It must have really been bored! NO. Photons, like all other particles have states or degrees of freedom, such as spin and electrical charge. There are no happy/sad states. If there were, we’d have discovered it by now in particle accelerators. Panpsychism is a dead pipe dream.

            Annie refers to an essential life force of our universe. What is this life force? How does it work without having any effect whatsoever on the particles that make up our natural world including the brain cells that contribute to her hallucinatory NDEs? Annie has repeatedly shared her various conditions, mental and physical, and seems not to understand that this makes her subjective experiences far less valuable than those of a healthy person who is not afflicted with various mental conditions like supposed child abuse, focus and sleeping disorders.

            There are no “life forces,” there is a “life process” and it emerges from the physical matter that makes up our natural world. When the life process stops, stick a fork in it, because it’s done.

          • Patrick Gannon

            “God of “Abraham” has become the fantasy of the weary and has no impact on the decision to do anything.” I don’t understand this statement at all. A few billion people would disagree with you. The God of Abraham is responsible for people dying brutally every day in his name. If only he could become a fantasy.

            Sure, Neale’s more feminine god is kinder and gentler – or appears to be – as far as I’m concerned there’s little difference between reincarnation into our tumultuous lives and Hell – but that doesn’t make his god any more real; and as you know – that’s what I care about. The truth. We need to get off of our crutches. I’ll agree that CwG can be a short-term crutch to help get away from the Abrahamic gods, but I submit that it’s better if we can step directly into truth and bypass lying to ourselves, yet again, even if the lies are kinder and gentler.

            “I do not think God is my conscience, I think my conscience is God.” From a practical standpoint, what’s the difference? I know my conscience isn’t god. My conscience is the result of my genetics, my upbringing, my experiences, my thoughts, my education, and so forth. It’s a function of my brain – just like yours.

            I’m sorry if I’m confusing your idea of god, but that’s what Neale does. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the word has come to have no useful function. It means something different to everyone, and thus is a word of confusion, rather than a word of communication. Neale talks about what he calls “separation theology” and then contributes to it by creating yet another god, different from all the others, and therefore separate from them. You accuse me of misunderstanding you – when it is you who is redefining the word god yet again. The answer is not to keep redefining god, the answer is to get rid of the concept altogether. Besides, for most people in the west, when they refer to “god” they don’t refer to conscience or philosophy or psychology, they refer to one or more of the Abrahamic gods.

            I don’t support Neale trying to redefine the Abrahamic god, and I can’t agree with you trying to redefine it to mean “conscience” using psychology. We already have a word for that. It’s called “conscience!” It’s like saying God is all that IS. We have a word for that – it’s called “everything.” The word god either applies to personal gods, i.e. deities, which is what Neale has clearly advocated in his many articles including this most recent series, or we dump the word because it no longer has any useful meaning with every Tom, Dick, Harry, Jethro and Charles redefining the word to suit their own purposes.

            I wouldn’t agree that our conscience is controlled by the majority, although it is affected by what others practice and believe to be moral and just, but it emerges from the physical matter, the neurons of our brains, so it’s mostly ours. However, I think to some extent you are right. We know we are conscious because we observe others and decide that they are conscious. We assign the character of “consciousness” to them, and in the same way we assign the characteristic of self-aware consciousness to ourselves, and decide that we are conscious too. Conscience surely works in the same way. (See Michael Graziano – “Consciousness and the Social Brain”).

            As it turns out, according to a book I’m finishing up about the mind, wolves have larger brains. They have a harder time surviving, given that they are in a much harsher environment than the domesticated dog. They need to be more intelligent to survive. Our house dogs seem smart, but by comparison with wolves, they are apparently inferior. We “intelligently designed” them to be more friendly and helpful to humans, but in so doing, made them less intelligent, and their brains shrunk.

            I am unconcerned about plants screaming. They release gasses when cut that we interpret as screaming or moaning – but they have no brain, thus no way to experience pain. It comes down to a discussion of comprehension versus competence. Organisms like plants or termites appear to be very competent at performing certain tasks. Termites build amazing air conditioned structures; clearly they are highly competent; but are the comprehending? No, of course not. We are the only species with a level of comprehension that puts us way, way, way, above all other species – including dolphins, birds and other primates. There may be a sliding scale of comprehension, but there is a huge gap between us and the next most comprehending critter on this planet. The biggest difference is that we have the ability to intentionally destroy ourselves and the rest of the planet.

          • Jethro

            I did add.. “THE IDEA OF”. You have said The Abrahamic God doesn’t exist, are you saying now the Abrahamic God did exist and doesn’t now?

            “it’s better if we can step directly into truth and bypass lying to ourselves”, It would be better for a baby to just stand and walk without all that falling over too, but there has to be some learning and experience that says for sure falling is going to hurt for us to demand balance of ourselves.

            “From a practical standpoint, what’s the difference?” How many times have I thought that?… I actually looked at what I wrote, thought the same thing as you and decided to leave it, since it seems to be legal when somethings are explained to me. But anyway… I did not have a God which I identified as Conscience, I have a conscience which I have Identified as God based on many descriptions by those who describe talking to god and listening. That’s the difference. I’m slowly learning this word game. Evolving maybe? (Grin)

            Your not confusing my Ideas, your not letting go of old ideas of God as I describe my idea of God. I describe something that exists, relate that to God and you respond as though I am speaking as a Christian when I am not, Neither is Neale in my opinion, as I have not heard any different. As far as the word God not having a definite definition, I think that was the point… shhhh, don’t say Gods name. But I have stated a name, conscience and common something, until further notice, which I believe is what people named God many years ago then ran a muck with different definitions to really create mass confusion in order to maintain control of the tribe. I am not “intending to create” another God with a new definition of a God, I am sharing my idea of the origin of God without looking into the clouds where people don’t live. All ideas originate in the brain, Period. The only people looking up to God is people who are short and must look up to see peoples heads. Tall people look down to God, and when we are not looking to God we are having a conversation with all of our experiences existing right inside our own heads and forming decisions that either work or don’t work for us.

            If we are going to pull people back into reality. That is, not feeling it’s ok to hurt others based on an imaginary being in the sky. Then we need to put God back into the people rather than in the sky, so they can be responsible for their actions, looking at the here and know rather than 2000 years ago. We don’t stone people to death anymore but some think it’s ok because the Bible says it was OK 2000 years ago. It’s holding on to ignorance. It’s like holding on to a form of early American language and calling it correct by giving it a name (ebonics) which makes it right by even todays standards even though it’s not on the English test at school. 2000 years ago a poll was taken, does everyone agree its wrong to kill someone? the answer was unanimous, yes it’s wrong… God has spoken! It’s wrong to kill!! The people were God, always has been. It’s also the reason we have little clauses that make it ok to kill… sometimes. People need a reason outside of the commandments to kill. to not believe in God is to not believe in humans.

            To be conscious is to be aware, conscience, awareness of thought. No reason to make it too complicated. Our conscience is the entity (grin) that we argue with when deciding to do the right thing. The right thing was taught to us by the majority. We did not get to decide that for ourselves. Our parents started it, school took over and our peers explained it and that’s how it has been since kindergarten. So here we are having a discussion about God because we got old enough to think, wait a minute, I’m the elder now, my turn to conduct some thoughts. The social brain, really? Someone wrote a book. The social brain is a brain that strives to be accepted, that’s it. Accepted = I’m doing good. Not accepted = I’m not doing so good, I need to change to be better.

            By your definition of the wolf, our brains should in fact be smaller than several years ago. Is that happening you think? or is there something happening creating a growth based on our change in scientific understanding. Not everyone is a scientist or is even close to understanding the possibilities. Unless of course we have confused the issues so much these days that survival is impossible based on any possible belief aside from the basics. kill or be killed, kill for money, kill to eat, kill to be in charge, kill to be important. Is that how the wolf does it? or are there submissives, those who don’t mind being ruled? Either way, which one has the largest body, the wolf or the domesticated dog? Has science missed something maybe?

            “I am unconcerned about plants screaming.” Me too! but we were agreeing way too much! You cannot challenge someone who is always agreeing. I have challenged you in return. Fun isn’t it? I told you in the beginning we are not that far off. But we have different ways of seeing “some” things.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Re: “idea of,” I missed that. Of course the Abrahamic god has never existed. I guess I’m like the kid in the playground who tells all the other kids that Santa isn’t real. It’s not appreciated, but it helps them mature faster.

            A lot of people manage to go from religious indoctrination to atheism or agnosticism without having to use the crutch of New Age God to get there. I stumbled into it, and it just delayed the inevitable, costing me a lot of time reading non-scientific woo that I know today to be nonsense.

            I’m not following your entire train of thought here. It still sounds to me like you’re trying to create your own definition of “god” and I don’t see how that is helpful. You said, ” to not believe in God is to not believe in humans.” That makes no sense to me. Exchanging “think that” in place of “believe in” (i.e. lying to ourselves), we come up with, “to think that God does not exist, is to think that humans don’t exist – and that’s silly. Of course humans exist. I don’t get your point. Clearly humans never voted that killing was wrong. It’s always been OK to kill people who don’t worship the same god as you!

            Your point seems to be that we need to put god into people in order to make them behave well, but I disagree. If everyone starts thinking they are god (as most understand that word), I fail to see how that will help the situation, given that gods never get along with each other for long.

            You would have to read Graziano’s book in order to get the concept of consciousness and the social brain. It’s not at all what you’ve described. It’s the idea that we are aware of our own consciousness by virtue of being aware of the consciousness of others. It has nothing to do with conscience – another subjective concept.

            I don’t know if our brains are getting smaller – but our gene pool certainly seems to be getting polluted, given that those whom evolution would have culled in the past, now propagate and pass on their less than optimum genes. We know that the more intelligent one is, the fewer kids they have – and this is the direct opposite of how evolution has worked in the past. In the past, the most intelligent usually managed to have the most surviving offspring. Having the most surviving offspring has always been the model for biological evolution as far as we know.There have been several articles recently promoting this idea. However the allegory to the wolf is not necessarily accurate. Wolves only evolve from the ground up via biological evolution. It is being argued now that humans evolved as well from the top down, as a result of learning to talk, to develop memes – starting with words, that allow the development and communication of ideas. Evolution would favor those who mated with others who could also form words and ideas, because they’d have had a significant advantage over others without those tools.

          • Jethro

            When you state there is no God, your stating that you personally do not believe in a god of any kind, you state there is absolutely no God whatsoever and your not counting the God in the minds of the believers. Because you refuse to acknowledge their belief. Your sure they are better off without God.
            I am looking at it from a different angle. I’m not saying there is an imaginary invisible being in the sky, I’m saying there is a God in the minds of others. A belief that there is a god. If there is one person on earth who says they believe in God, then the word still exists and someone is putting a definition to that word. As long as there is a word (God) and a definition or description of (God), then there is a God that exists if only in thought. I’m recognizing “that”. It’s the way it all started isn’t it? One person come up with an idea that grew into the many ideas of Gods that we are learning about or denying to this very day. As long as enough people agree in a God and the rules laid down by that God, and you live amongst those people, your living under and obeying the rules of that God even if you deny the existence of their God, even if you refuse to believe in any God. Your effected by God. That makes God a reality, but not necessarily real. So how did that God originate? Specifically for me, where did the God of my parents originate? How did the rules/laws of God originate? Why were they made and why were they accepted?
            We can state that it was all ignorance but I can’t believe that. I think there is more to it than exaggerated children’s stories. Humans have had false ideas about the universe but they knew how to overcome many things and managed to survive…. how many years now? 300,000 by last carbon dating. I believe many things related to humans created the description of God, first of all, our conscience. It’s why we feel guilty, guilt is like a punishment, to get relief from that guilt, what can we do? 2000 years ago, kill a lamb. Today? See a psychiatrist?

            To realaberate “to not believe in God is to not believe in humans.” … God is as much a part of humanity as food. There are no laws today in this country that force us to pretend to believe in God, but people do, and that belief creates a need to coexist with those beliefs…. as long as people believe in God, God is in your life and that’s real.

            Neale has a great explanation for people being god without turning everyone into Julius caesar. Removing God from some people just won’t happen, at least without strenuous cognitive therapy which will not happen. Letting people keep God, that is, quit telling them their God is false, but suggest that God is kinder and more forgiving than believed and you change the world without a holy war. It will be a long long time before bible thumpers believe the God they are talking to is their ideas of their experiences combined being experienced for the first time in their thoughts. When that happens, it seems we have received information we never had before. If we don’t think we are able to have these thoughts, and we find somebody else said it, we think something happened like telepathy or some weird unnatural communications.

            I would have to read Graziano’s book to get Graziano’s concept for sure. There was some humor in my post there.

            Our brains aren’t getting smaller or larger. Autopsies are performed all the time and brains are weighed. I’m sure if a change from one normal to another occurred, there would be an article about it. As you say though, something is happening (or not happening) in the thoughts of humans everywhere and we are obviously not calling it a good thing. We’re not being forced to think in order to survive. If we’re stupid enough, the gornment will take care of us. Something I read in a koosie, “You can’t fix stupid with duct tape, but you can muffle the sound with it!” I was pretty happy with the new message until my wife explained it was against the law… dang!!!

          • Patrick Gannon

            To your first paragraph: yes.

            (Jethro, do you mind if I help you with your grammar? You said: “When you state there is no God, your not counting….” “Your” should be “You’re” as in “you are” not counting. The word “your” implies ownership – it’s your house. The word “you’re” is two words: you are. You’re running to your house. You consistently get this word wrong so I figure it’s like a person with spinach stuck in their teeth who might want to know about it.) Sorry – my girlfriend got me a “Grammar Police” T-Shirt.

            I’ll agree that the word “god” is a meme and that it, like genes has mutated and adapted and evolved and continues to do so – but in its most common usage, it refers to personal gods, to deities, to imaginary, invisible beings that live in the sky. That is the “god” that is in most people’s minds.

            The idea of the Abrahamic god – the one we are most concerned about, arose as the result of oral tradition – stories that attempted to explain what was then an unknowable universe. The god of your parents and mine trace their roots back to the invention of Yahweh, who in turn may have been derived from earlier gods. Those oral traditions were written down, and that was all-important. In the gospel of John it says, “In the beginning was the word…” Yes – the word. The written word. It persists, unlike oral tradition. The word was very critical to human evolution, and critical as well to religion and the invention of gods. A word is an idea, a meme, a concept, an expression. It’s time to put this meme to bed, given that it serves only to divide us.

            I still don’t get what you’re driving at, I guess. The rules evolved as society developed. With the advent of agriculture it made sense to draw into societies, and rules had to be established so that all might live together in some sort of harmony – men figured these rules out and then codified them. What else? Some of the rules were intended to empower the priests, but some were based on the altruism that we and many other species evolved – if you take care of your mate, there’s a better chance more of your offspring will survive, and they in turn will pass on those traits. it’s all evolution.

            I’m sorry, but I can’t equate conscience with god. My fellow humans and I decided what rules we would live by and my conscience is going to remind me of those rules, assuming I have accepted them or been indoctrinated into them. I have no belief in gods, but my conscience works just fine. We can play other word games with “god.” We can substitute “the unknown” in place of the word “god” and quite often it will fit just fine and make perfect sense. But we don’t need another word. We already have the word: “unknown.” Why create the word “god” as a synonym for either “unknown” or “conscience?”

            I still don’t like the phrasing, “to not believe in God is to not believe in humans.” That still makes no sense to me. Not all humans believe in god. Yes, god is a big part of our culture, but that seems to be changing. When god is gone that does not mean humans will be gone; we will simply be more rational. Yes, as long as people believe in God, then their god is in my life, but only if they try to pass laws legislating their god or their beliefs – otherwise they are just indoctrinated, uneducated or delusional, and can be safely ignored. The problem is that they won’t keep their gods out of everyone else’s lives – so they must be countered and their gods must be debunked until they learn to stop trying to run everyone else’s life.

            Removing god is already happening, and it all has to do with declining indoctrination. Church attendance is falling like a rock. The statistics are clear that if you don’t get the kids before they learn critical thinking, you don’t get them at all. Mainstream churches are being shuttered all over this country, as we finally start to catch up with the Europeans. The only place religion is growing is third world emerging countries where poor ignorant people pump out kids that they can’t support, but which the Church is quite happy to indoctrinate.

            Neale’s solution drags it all out longer than necessary, but it gives him an opportunity to run a successful New Age business. The priest class always figures out how to turn gods to their own advantage! What matters is the truth – and his god is no more true than your parent’s god, and we both know it. Why the struggle to maintain something we both know is not true? Yes, he sprinkled some great advice and good suggestions and points to ponder, but that’s all window dressing on yet another make believe god. We have to get beyond make believe gods – and we will. We are. It’s happening, and even faster than what might have been expected. We’ll know that we’re making real progress in the US when the first openly atheist politicians are elected to Congress. It’s just a matter of time.

            Our intelligence depends on more than just brain size. Einstein’s brain was very normal in that regard. He may have had more “white matter” than was normal. These are cells that play an assistance role for neurons. We’re still studying the brain to try and figure out what makes some more intelligent than others, and it may not be found within the structure of the brain, but rather in the processes that emerge from it. Some propose that consciousness isn’t something we are, it’s something we do. That could apply to intellect as well.

            The size and development of the brain appears to be limited by how much food a mother can process for herself and her child. In humans, babies are really not fully developed until 3 months or so after they have been born, and significant brain development continues at a rapid rate immediately after birth. The infant brain grows very quickly in the early months. It’s one reason human babies are so helpless, whereas in other primates, the brain is more fully developed so the offspring can hit the ground with at least some small ability to take care of itself. As one scientist put it – newborns are essentially a meatloaf! (Unfortunately all too many seem to remain in that state for their entire lives!).

            Read Graziano’s book – or better yet, read “The Big Picture” by Sean Carroll.

          • Jethro

            I don’t mind if you criticize any part of what I’m writing, I do it all the time and miss many things I’m sure. the one word I have to correct most is “There” when I should have written “Their”, it’s not ignorance, it’s a typo. My mouth doesn’t cooperate with my thoughts, so my fingers don’t recognize any authority either. Rebellious little buggers. Where that shirt proud! :-)

            “That is the “god” that is in most people’s minds.” Yes, in their minds. In everybody’s minds, and the more confusing, those who are influential, can make it all sound, the more important they will appear to be. That would be with anything and everything though, wouldn’t it? The more complicated something sounds, the more interested we are in hearing more. It’s when we become intelligent enough to dumb it down that we find we wasted our time.

            “I still don’t get what you’re driving at, I guess.” That’s ok. I gave it my best shot. I’ll leave it alone.

            “I’m sorry, but I can’t equate conscience with god.” That’s ok too. Wasn’t trying to change you, just explain my ideas of the origin and what I think could have been the first ideas of God may have been. It’s neither here nor there.

            “I still don’t like the phrasing, “to not believe in God is to not believe in humans.” That still makes no sense to me.” Well I tried and failed. Once again, neither here nor there, just typing. Not all conversations will move along without confusion. Not that you’re confused, you’re just not getting what I’m saying.

            “Why the struggle to maintain something we both know is not true?” I believe I understand why and I have stated it several times. I don’t know if I can say it any other way. I’ll just leave it at “I think I get it.” But I will not promote someone because they state they are Atheist anymore than I would support someone because they state they are Christians. When a politician believes in humanity They got it right. Can I believe they care about all humans if they are calling any person wrong for their beliefs? Wouldn’t it be wise to just not declare anything if not believing in anything. Just more politics.

            “white matter”, that’s the best they could do? That little white speck on top of chicken poop is still poop… and “white matter”, so that’s pretty generic. (And my wife added “don’t black matter too?” I gave her a blank stare until she smiled. Funny enough to share.) Part of my comment was based on the fact that Einstein’s brain was normal, now you mention White Matter. Is this white matter produced by a working synapse? That would agree with my statement that the brain does not have to be big to make someone smarter, just more sparks going off, and the location of those sparks seems to be important.

            I really wish I had more time to read… I will eventually. I still haven’t finished Neale’ book 4.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Actually, more often than not it’s a “need” to go to the beach versus, a “want” to get the chores done because that’s what I always do. The “need” to go to the beach for mental health may be far more important than the desire to stay on top of chores. The chores are always there! I am fast approaching that state of “need” this year! It’s probably best for all concerned if I go to the beach!

            Speaking of animal brains, do you think (as a percentage of animal size) that dogs brains have gotten larger or smaller since they evolved away from their wolf ancestors?

          • Jethro

            Now that’s quite a flip around, and in my current position I totally agree. I need some time off!! We are going to California for a wedding. 9 days off AND out of the state…and we’re going to the beach!

            I don’t believe a brain has to change size to get more intelligent, though it makes sense. New pathways only need to open to conduct chemicals, that’s all it takes unless they are all being used. Creation of new breeds has mad several breeds pretty stupid, though some are known to be very, very, intelligent, each one has a dogs brain.

          • Jethro

            “How do you work all that out with only one voice in your head?”
            I was re-reading through this morning and seen this in a new light. My wife and I spend every waking moment together, we live together, work together, play together. Rarely are we ever more than 50ft apart… for years now. We have had a couple arguments, at least :-) we have been talking lately about how the memory of some arguments can have an effect on new discussions. We have found ourselves trying to predict the outcome of some conversations based on past experiences with each other. She and I both came away from some traumatic relationships when we came together and it’s been kind of tough because we see our past people in each other rather than seeing each other as the new couple that we are. There are times when we should include someone else and their little voice in order to find the truth about something. Even though we spend so much time together, we are changing in leaps and bounds in the way we think, so much so that what we said last month may not apply this month, the voice in our heads are left without the proper facts in such changes and this is a dilemma amongst all humans. She and I have concluded that all assumptions are wrong so new discussions are mandatory before conclusions can be made. It’s not about 2 voices, it’s about 4 voices between the two of us.

          • Patrick Gannon

            He’s a more challenging read that Graziano or Carroll, but I think you’d like Daniel Dennett’s “From Bacteria to Bach and Back.” His story of top-down social or cultural evolution, in addition to bottom up biological evolution starts by recognizing the value of having two voices in your head, which then expands exponentially when you add the voices in other people’s heads – you are able to accomplish and consider so much more.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I’m going to chime in here.

            You had me right up to, “In this process we have decided there is a wrong and a right.” That’s optional, in my experience. I see things as cause and effect, without labeling them right or wrong, or good or bad.

            Then I’m good again at, “It’s desirable to include all that exists…”

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            The words chosen have many definitions in the way I used them. How can we get past using any negative terms as we must be able to describe positive and negative in some form… don’t we?

            Wrong – not correct or true, incorrect, mistaken, in error, erroneous, inaccurate, inexact, imprecise, fallacious, wide of the mark, off target, unsound, faulty, inappropriate, unsuitable, inapt, inapposite, undesirable, in a bad or abnormal condition, amiss, awry, out of order, not right, faulty, flawed, defective, unjust, dishonest, immoral, illegal, unlawful, illicit, criminal, dishonest, dishonorable, corrupt….

            Right – morally good, justified, or acceptable, just, fair, proper, good, upright, righteous, virtuous, moral, ethical, honorable, honest, true or correct as a fact, correct, accurate, exact, precise, the best or most suitable of a number of possible choices for a particular purpose or occasion, suitable, appropriate, fitting, correct, proper, desirable, preferable, ideal…

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I’m not saying societies don’t have the right to set boundaries and legal limits on behavior, or that we live with no sense of morals or ethics. We decide, as individuals and in conjunction with where we live, what’s acceptable and what is not.

            The labels of “right” and “wrong” and “good” and “bad” carry with them centuries of moral righteousness and bloodshed. And, what is legal in one country or state may be illegal in another. Neither is right or wrong. It doesn’t make the other “bad” because they’re different from us. And it doesn’t make us “good,” either. It just makes us different.

            That’s all I was saying.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            I agree with you Annie. what I am saying is we cannot eliminate Right and Wrong from the vocabulary, another word takes its place. How we choose to use the words on the other hand can differ a great deal. It makes no sense to refer to something as right if it is not working for another. Unless we include that it’s just our opinion and it works for us. We seldom make that observation so the words get abused.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Sorry—one of my pet peeves. I’m just tired of people being judgmental about others’ choices or differences. I’ve got a friend who’s bought into the hysteria that immigrants who are Muslim want to take over our government and institute Sharia Laws. I have this discussion with her regularly. That it’s extremists, not everyday Muslims, who incite violence and terrorism. That their faith makes them different, but that doesn’t make them wrong. That her Christian faith’s codified into law and it would take an overthrow of our government to change that.

            I just prefer to use more descriptive and less loaded words, like legal and illegal, or acceptable and unacceptable in our personal view. That way we can still include understanding the difference while we don’t agree with it. I’ve found most who are angry and fearful don’t make it a point to understand others. It takes effort to put oneself in another’s shoes, but I think we could use a lot more of it.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            We have lost the art of speech in the past couple hundred years. Were not using words with the wrong definition always, we’re using words loosely. So we need to have a little more understanding for what people say as a whole rather than the words they use. My wife and I have those discussions quite often, so much so that I say the same thing several ways before stopping what I’m saying or I have to argue the meaning of a word I chose. I then have to explain there were other words before and following that should keep me from dragging out the dictionary to form a meaning for what I’m saying. I dread the phrase.. “But you said”.

            However Christie was saying she feared a Muslim takeover. She felt they were “Wrong” for doing so and you were “Right” to give her a better understanding. Saying that Muslims are Wrong for being Muslims is Wrong because if it is serving them Right, and if due to being Muslim they treat others Right, then it can’t be Wrong for Them to be Muslim. But some Muslims and some Christians and Some Atheists are using there beliefs as a reason to harm others, which is wrong. If any belief we have allows us to treat others as we would have others treat us then it must be Right for them. Not everyone will agree with what I wrote here and say I’m wrong, others will say I am Right, so it’s depending on who you ask, if I am right or wrong. Does that sound about Right? Or am I incorrect, mistaken, in error, erroneous, inaccurate, inexact, imprecise, fallacious, off target, faulty, amiss, awry, out of order, not right, faulty,or flawed? It would have to be one of those words because I know I’m not Wrong.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            How I would hope to say it (I’m not perfect!):

            She feared a Muslim takeover. I explained why that’s unlikely to happen here in the US, where Judeo-Christianity has been codified into law. Beliefs vary because society reflects the variety of individuals. Some people use their set of beliefs to harm others, which happens in all belief systems because each reflects the whole of society, so each includes those wishing to harm or assert power over others. Fortunately for humanity, there are more people who’ve chosen to celebrate diversity, or at least tolerate it, than those who do not.
            __________

            Facts, man. I try to focus on facts rather than what could be construed as judgements, avoiding loaded words. It doesn’t mean I don’t have an opinion (obviously), but it’s more well-received by whomever I’m conversing with by bypassing emotional reactions to overused words that have different meanings for different people.

            So, you’re neither right or wrong, or you’re both. 😀

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            Lol, fair enough, and true. If I can achieve somewhere in the middle more often I would be satisfied with that. What fun is perfection? Acceptance of diversity is the secret to a peaceful end, but, it’s impossible to accept everything. What if the entire world could come together somewhere in the middle? What a thought.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            LOL, I gave up perfection when I had a toddler in the house. It was either settle for my best or die from exhaustion.

          • Jethro

            Children change the rules for sure. So its not a loss of perfection, but a change in its definition. I’m not as good at it as I once was. I’m a better grandparent than parent.

          • http://markoworld.com/ Marko

            Yes Jethro, the one I got on the 16th was the one above, of which is the current blog.

          • Jethro

            Thank you Marko. I thought so but wasn’t gonna say without being sure.

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Jethro,

        I had a new thought just the other day. Now, where did I put it? Oh, yeah!

        I’ve found that the animals in my life are good “interrupters” of thought. There have been many cats, and a few special dogs, who have been capable of getting me out of my thoughts and into the moment. I love to look into an animal’s eyes and stroke their fur, practically puts me in a meditative state all by itself.

        And it’s generally moments like those when I become inspired, or get past my writer’s block, or just feel peaceful.

        What is it that triggers meditative moments for others? Or what gets y’all out of your spinning thoughts and makes you present?

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Jethro

          Just let go for a moment. Quit solving. Do a mental body roll call. Start with your toes, you should be relaxed before you get to your shoulders.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I learned that as a standard relaxation technique years ago. I first do a “check-in” from toes to head. Then I relax each body part from toe to head. If I’m still feeling pain after relaxing, I numb each area from toe to head. It works fairly well, and is something I do regularly.

            What’s the “more to the story?” I have a problem with racing thoughts sometimes when inspiration hits (thinking faster than I can write or type), and racing thoughts while trying to go to sleep.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            I was going to explain more about what you’ve been doing for years already. :-) I personally do the steps of a remodel for a bathroom, or repiping a whole house. Any mundane mental interruption works when your needing to clear your thoughts to concentrate.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Oh, I like that! One of the things that’s happened recently is I made the final payment on my mobile home. So now, at 57, I own my very first home—a tin can with two add-on rooms, none of which is actually mobile anymore. I hope he doesn’t sell the property out from under me.

            And lots of work to be done. Remember those old silver trailers that were oblong with curves everywhere and no corners? That’s how old this thing is, curves and all. And termites. And cockroaches and spiders and even a kitchen lizard. And no insulation and I can see sunlight through the gaps around all the windows, all of which are plexiglass which rarely fits the frame, none of which are square anymore and don’t have screens. And soft spots in the flooring, especially the bathroom. (Who puts cheap wood planking in a bathroom?) And most of the “cabinets” (built, obviously) can’t be used in the kitchen. Then there are the cheap window-shakers that can’t keep the place cool. And these miniblinds! Oh, they have got to go. The extra bedroom could easily become a laundry and storage room. Then there’s the decorating, plus my mattress is still on the floor. Colors! I can have colors on the walls! But first I have to replace the kitchen appliances because the freezer doesn’t freeze and only two burners work on the stove. And I’m tired of my knee hitting the bathroom sink’s cabinet every time I sit down. But I haven’t installed a handheld shower head yet…

            See, that’s how stuff takes off for me. That’s just a made-up example, that wasn’t spinning around but thought out. Can you imagine that, out of control? And until I can break it down into smaller pieces I can focus on, it all swirls around. I’m an organizer for that very reason. I can break things down into groups of importance with some cheap little fun bit once a month, and keep it in check.

            Or, I can save all the money I was paying to the previous owner and find a little better place that needs less work and is in a better neighborhood. Haven’t quite decided. I’d have to let go of Christie a bit more, and I’m not sure if I’m ready for that yet.

            I have a tendency to count things to stop the high speed thoughts. Anything. I can count my steps as I walk, or numbers of cars, or the number of palm trees I see. It’s soothing when I do it rhythmically, like counting breaths during meditation.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          • Jethro

            I do that too. Racing thoughts are a booger.

          • Jethro

            When I start thinking about all of the things I need to do around my place, I have a hard time figuring out a starting point. we have crowded our little space with enough stuff that moving one thing requires moving another. It’s like one of those little puzzles with a bunch of squares, one missing and you need to put them in order. I demand organization just like you. Everything must have it’s place, so it’s been driving me nuts trying to get that done. I always wind up frustrated and confused for one major reason, I have to consider my wife’s stuff. She is the type who can get it to fit into say a cabinet and if the door shuts, yup, success! It’s organized!! We’re getting there though.

            Who puts cheap wood in bathrooms? You wouldn’t believe how many homes have particle board subfloors. Which is ok in most of the house…Until humidity condenses under a home. We replace a lot of particle board subfloors around here, mostly under toilets. As soon as we can, we are going to stop doing service calls and start flipping houses. I don’t know that I’ll totally quit doing service, but I’m going to slow it way down. People don’t realize how much money we need to charge to keep an income. They think I’m getting rich and we are barely making it. Too much windshield time in this area that is so spread out.

        • Jethro

          I’m home now!! laptop instead of phone, woo hoo. I get a bit of windshield time around here. Everything is 20 miles or 20 minutes away from each place. Did the government plan it that way? Hmmm Anyway. There is actually more to my story if you were looking for a possible surefire way to stop racing thoughts.

  • Sam

    Okay, getting back on track (whew), and on topic :)
    When everything is God, in endless variations, any communication must be “God-conversation”. But, of course, in this case, the point is a conversation with the top dog; God in pure state. The most sought after “commodity” on Earth.
    Neale explains it perfectly, as for one way to go about it. Being very much in line with many masters, priests, and monks over the centuries.
    But then we have this, and I would say a more natural way around it, getting your moments with pure God as well. Also being, so happens, the whole point of the physical world.
    I am talking about natural high. Those very best moments in your life—small and large. That is pure God. Pure perfection. And the place to BE. Of which we have little masters already, called children, where meditation is not in need.
    Natural high is the whole point of any of this; the whole universe. What it is to feel alive. Which only can be achieved in a place where there are opposites. Opposites like hardship, something to work hard for, before reaching those very best moments of your life.
    It’s a pulse, a rhythm, breathing. It is pure God hiding, for one reason only: to reappear. Only when suddenly finding pure God again, you will have your electric moment of satisfaction—never to feel more alive, or more in the moment BE.
    This big thing, we call the world, is solely put in motion for the sake of sweet peek-a-boo :)