Something to think about:
A CLOSING STATEMENT ABOUT
CONVERSATIONS WITH GOD

My dear, dear companions on this journey…

The time has come for me to make a closing statement about Conversations with God — this wonderful experience that has touched my life and, amazingly, the lives of millions of others around the world.

By “closing statement” I do not necessarily mean “final” statement. I may very well have more things to say about CWG before I die (and after I die, for that matter, as I am sure there will be writings released after my departure). So by “closing statement” I mean to say that the words here are intended to bring a close to any speculation about how I feel about, how I personally hold, the Conversations with God experience — and how I wish and hope that anyone who is, or becomes, aware of it will feel also.

I want to put to rest any thought, idea, notion, or claim that may lead to a misunderstanding that any person or group may have about me, and about the body of work that has filled over 30 books and consumed the last 25 years of my life.

I am aware, of course, that some people and groups have called me a blasphemer, a heretic, an apostate, and, in the extreme, an instrument of the devil. I understand how they could have come to that, for many of the ideas I have placed into the world directly confront and specifically contradict their most sacred beliefs.

Because of this, I am very okay with them calling me these names. I am okay with it because I admire and encourage the active and energetic defense of one’s own most sacred beliefs, so long as that defense does not involve or include the inflicting of emotional or physical violence. (No, not even to protect — much less, to extend) — those beliefs.) For in my heart’s deepest experience and my mind’s highest understanding, sacred beliefs lose the quality which rendered them “sacred” if they are demonstrated in a way that deeply or irrevocably damages another.

But so long as we create and maintain the space within which you can share and practice your beliefs and I can share and practice mine…and we can do so while loving each other purely, and admiring each other genuinely, for having the courage and the gumption and the willingness to do so without rage-filled hostility, without brutality, and surely without bloodshed…then we will have both venerated our beliefs and honored each other. And what better way can there be to reveal why our beliefs feel so valid to us?

It is true that in my writing and in my speaking I have offered critical commentary on certain beliefs held by and espoused by particular religions, but I placed each of those statements into the arena of ideas in the spirit of simple and honest disagreement — and I hope that I have always welcomed the spirited disagreement of others with a willingness for open engagement in ongoing and vibrant dialogue.

That said, I hope you will hear me when I offer, with as much clarity as I can muster, this “closing statement” on the messages of CWG: I could be wrong about all of this.

Don’t imagine for a second that I don’t think about that. I think about it all the time. Matt Lauer once asked me in an interview on The Today Show on NBC: “Neale, do you ever doubt that the experience you’ve had is what you say it is? Do you ever doubt the accuracy of the information you feel you’ve been given?”

My response was immediate, simple, and straightforward.

“Matt, the day I stop doubting is the day I become dangerous, and I have no intention of becoming dangerous.”

So I want to tell you to doubt as well. (I’m sure I don’t have to encourage this.) I want you to be clear that one of the most important messages of the Conversations with God dialogues is not to believe them.

Indeed, in the very first book of the nine texts we hear this in the voice of God:

“Believe nothing I say. Simply live it. Experience it. Then live whatever other paradigm you want to construct. Afterward, look to your experience to find your truth.”

We do well to remain our own authority in all matters regarding the Self and the Soul. No one can tell us what is True for us, and no one should try.

I will always be happy to tell you what is true for me. I became very clear about my truth when I read the recommendations and the suggestions on how I might live my own life found in the CWG dialogue. I couldn’t help but think: “I wish someone had told me these things fifty years ago. I can’t imagine a better way to live.”

 I hope that if and after you read and absorb the CWG material, you agree with me. I hold this hope because I truly believe its messages can profoundly change your individual life, and the world entire, for the better. But whatever your personal response to the 3,000+ pages of this dialogue, I think we can concur that this is a powerful subject we are talking about here, and it is good to proceed with care.

All of it is wrapped up in our relationship with The Divine—indeed, in the question of whether there even is a “God.” And that is not a small matter.

Our understanding of all of this is significant because most human beings need and seek and sooner or later deeply yearn to find some kind of meaning in life. Without that meaning, without some purpose for it all, many of us soon find ourselves simply trudging along with heaviness of heart, trying to make the best of something we haven’t even begun to understand, pushing through our days and nights engaged in what appear to be increasingly aimless, valueless, senseless activities that clarify nothing, produce little, and generate not much more than “things to do” while on our way to where, we don’t know, but an eventual end that we call death — the anticipation of which offers naught but a heightened sense of what feels like the almost bitterly laughable fruitlessness of it all.

And so we yearn, and we search. And giving it deeper thought as I write this, I arrive at a place of knowing that if we hold the notion that there is some sort of Higher Power in existence, our reaching clarity may very well be guaranteed.

Seek and ye shall find, God has said to all of us. Knock and it shall be opened unto you. We may very well be caused to remember that there is something greater going on here. Information may come our way that will make the “larger-ness” of all that is and all that occurs suddenly apparent.

But what is the larger reason for it? What is the greater purpose? What is the grander point? These are the questions we all ultimately ask about life. And this is what I believe only your own ongoing conversation with God can tell you. The ideas and the pronouncements of others can perhaps lead you closer to it, but only your own inner communion with The Divine can open your heart and mind to your deepest truth.

I hope, then, that you will allow yourself to experience such a communion, to have such a conversation, and to know . . . whatever your most sacred belief, whatever your religion, whatever your faith tradition, or if you have none at all . . . that you can experience your own first-person, one-on-one exchange with God.

For some it may come in the form of words. For others, as feelings, or a simple sense of “knowing.” For still others, pictures and thought forms and signs and signals may present themselves as life itself is being lived.

God’s “conversation” has no limits, no boundaries, no specifications in terms of “how” it may proceed and how its messages may be sent or received. But I do not believe that your interaction with The Divine was ever intended to be a one-way encounter. I believe it was intended to provide you with comfort, to produce for you wisdom and clarity and strength, and a goal worthy of your dedication, of your commitment, of your time and your effort.

And so, I encourage you to engage in your own conversation with God every day, in whatever way feels natural and good to you, based on your tradition or your innermost feeling. Call it prayer, call it meditation, call it inspiration, call it whatever you wish. And if my exchanges with God have lead you to your own, my publishing the CWG books will have succeeded in its goal—which was not to open you to my truth, but to put you directly in touch with your own.

God has blessed you, and me, and all the world. And if we simply extend God’s blessings to everyone whose life we touch, through all the days of our lives, in each of the encounters that fill our hours upon the Earth, we will have unlocked the Secret of the Ages held within the folds of the most sacred doctrines of all of humanity’s spiritual belief systems: Love is the answer. Love is all there is. Love is who you are. And the experiencing and expressing of love is why you are here.

There you have it. The mysteries of life have been solved.

 

 

I could, of course, be wrong about all of this.
(But I don’t think so.)

 

;o)

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  • Spiritual_Annie

    Dearest Neale,

    Usually words come to me readily, but this re-minder has me flashing back on so much of my own encounter with your Conversation With God experience that (for once) words aren’t flowing easily. That is so unusual for me.

    I must have come across Book 1 shortly after it was first published, because it’s been 20 years ago that I found myself Spiritually seeking expression for who I had become on the other side of intensive therapy for two years. I’m even flashing back farther than that to when I first discovered meditation as a teenager. It was the form of meditation that the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi was promoting at the time, which was Transcendental Meditation. While TM didn’t turn out to be “my thing,” it opened my mind to the idea that prayer and meditation are two sides of the same coin. In the first instance, we speak with Divine Energy, and in the second, we open ourselves up to hearing the answers we seek.

    My experience with Book 1 wasn’t that I was being presented with new information that I needed to either incorporate or dismiss. Mine was an experience of affirmation of many of the things I already knew, but which were so outside of “the norm” that I’d not seen them in print yet. I have been hearing the Divine Energy since I was a child, especially through Nature but also through premonitions, dreams, sudden “knowings,” synchronicities and the people who were brought into my life at just the right time to provide what helped me most.

    You and the CWG material are one of those “right time, right kind of help” instances. I had, through my mid-30’s or so, investigated religions. I found that, even under the best of circumstances in a church that was open and accepting of all, in which I was so invested I ended up helping keep it going during the absence of a Senior Pastor, it was just as dogmatic and cliquish. It became known as “the gay church” rather than a Christian church that ministered to those marginalized by mainstream churches, which was its stated mission. My time there served me well, though, as the Senior Pastor, before he left, taught me so much about the history of biblical translation, “lost books,” and gnostic writings. He taught me critical thinking about sacred texts and, later when I served as Administrator during his absence, I saw the church as the business that it was.

    Feeling somewhat stripped of my previous identification with “my story,” and feeling let down by what I felt was the best hope for organized religion, I began developing my own Spirituality outside of religion, with its own practices and beliefs based on my experiences. So, when CWG and you came into my life, I was ready for what I read. As I said, it was more an affirmation that I was on the right path for myself than it was a presentation of new ideas. Put into words, my thoughts would have been something like, “Wow. Somebody else has the same thoughts and ideas that I do. And believe in them so much to put them in print. And it’s selling like hotcakes, so I know there are others who are connecting with the same things. Wow.”

    It was the next natural step for me to want to share with others the depth and meaning I’d always felt in my life, especially as you and your CWG had helped provide the words for doing so. When confronted with skepticism, I’d ask people to read CWG as if it weren’t actually from God and see whether the messages within it resonated with them. I asked them to consider that, even if all of the information it contained came from your subconscious mind, to decide whether or not they found value in the wisdom it contained. (In my view, you most certainly had a conversation with Divinity as all is Divine, so even if it was from your subconscious, it was still with Divinity.)

    I was just really getting into what I call Spiritual Activism when I began my recent adventures with a near death experience, moving to Florida, becoming homelesss, getting off of the streets and starting to settle in, then having my best friend and roommate pass over to Spirit unexpectedly. Near the end of that, I was given the opportunity to participate in your 7-Week Course, which I had to make a considerable investment in as I live on meager SSDI income at the moment. I even discussed it with my roommate as it affected our joint plans for purchases for our still-new home, and she encouraged me to enroll because she already knew how much CWG meant in my life.

    As it turned out, CWG entered my life again at an opportune moment because it was after only the first couple of weeks that she passed over to Spirit. I took the chance of telling that truth and what I was feeling in the moment as it was occurring in the community for the participants. I made some deep connections with others that I suspect will last a long time, as well as being affirmed and comforted during my initial shock and grieving. The depth of the course spoke directly to the depth at which I was affected by the personal loss I felt, as well as my belief that, for her, the timing was appropriate. It helped me see her role in my life from a larger perspective, and her moving on as another experience I was able to define the meaning of for myself rather than trying to fit it into some “normal” I was “supposed” to think and feel.

    When the course reached the point where we did a meditation you guided that opened us up to having our own conversation with Divinity, I was inspired to finally start writing the book so many people said over my lifetime that I had within me. And I do mean “inspired,” as the book started writing itself through me rather than my even having to think about the words. Even the organization of it came easily to me, in three parts involving my personal history, the mentors and teachers that have been in my life, and concrete tools for healing from life’s challenges, especially abuses, mental health issues, being differently abled, and homelessness. Once the text took a break from flowing, I was able to easily do a mind map and make an outline of not just the book, but the entire process from start to finish.

    I share all of this because I want you to be aware of how deeply your CWG experience has affected my life, and to ensure you that the messages within it will not be lost even after your own transition to Spirit. You and the core messages of CWG will certainly play a large part in my own writing as it’s played such a large role in my life. I already know, even though I’ve not yet written any of the mentors and teachers section, that you will be included, as will the core messages of We Are All One and Ours is not a better way, ours is merely another way. Which brings me full circle (finally) to your post here.

    I know you have your naysayers because I’ve interacted with them on a regular basis, and realize that’s only a small percentage of the opposition you’ve dealt with since you first published. Fortunately, there are more there that are open to Spirituality than there are those who insist you are attempting to force your beliefs on others or start a new religion. Some of them, claiming to be familiar with the CWG materials, have completely missed that part of the CWG message is to test everything within it to find whether or not it is true for them personally and, if it is not, that’s perfectly acceptable. How they could miss it confuses and confounds me, and I speak my truth regardless of what has turned out to become, in one instance, a contentious personal back-and-forth that I’ve recently decided to withdraw my participation in. I haven’t left, just left my interaction with that one person because they are as dogmatic in their disbelief as any fundamental religionist I’ve met, and they made it personal. I will continue to post my own truth despite the possibility that I may again be attacked. It is, after all, a conversation meant to be open to debate, within the boundaries of respect for differing opinions even when we disagree.

    I know at some point I will return to more active Spiritual Activism as my circumstances change. CWG’s message is something I believe serves a purpose that’s important in the world today. A Spiritual revolution, or a turning away from the old dogmatic way of experiencing Divinity, is what I believe is necessary for us to choose to survive rather than creating our own demise as a species. Focusing on commonalities rather than differences, and understanding our connection rather than the illusion of separation, can (and I believe will) change everything. Spreading that message and the depth it’s provided in my own life is part of my Soul’s Agenda in expressing unconditional Love and compassion through understanding.

    Well, it looks like I found the words after all, didn’t I? Funny how that works. 🙂

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

  • A true friend

    Neale how could someoe time travel?

  • Jethro

    My life was surely changed for the better by the CWG series. As I read I felt that all the answers I had ever wanted answers for were being answered. I makes total sense that I brought myself to your books to find the answers and I found them. I believed as I read more and more that I could have wrote book 1 myself, yet never could have wrote a word of any of it. I am thankful. I could never express how thankful.

  • mewabe

    The way I look at it, nothing in life is about being right or being wrong…everything is about personal and collective evolution. It is not wrong to be a child, yet eventually the child grows into adulthood…it is not wrong to be a seed, yet the seed becomes a plant.

    When something works for you, and as long as it does, then it is valid for you. Others might borrow your thoughts or beliefs as one borrows a hammer, if and when they need these thoughts or beliefs, temporarily or permanently.

    In my view, it matters not from where these thoughts originate. I have received psychic messages, I have had visions and prophetic dreams, but I will never argue with anyone as to where these originate. As I mentioned in a response to Patrick, whether these come from my big toe or what is generally referred to as the spirit world is rather irrelevant when you realize that you are connected to all life, that there are no actual separation between the outer and the inner, between the above and the below, between the self and the cosmos and between the self and the collective unconscious.

    At some point, words become inadequate. This is when real knowledge begins, where words end. Imagine this: the entire universe manages to exist and function without words, without beliefs, without a written down system or operational manual. Are we so lost that we cannot even remember our own place in this universe, and live spontaneously and harmoniously according to our own nature?

    There is a great danger in assuming to speak for God. There is no doubt Neale is aware of it. The danger is that, in the mind of most believers, what God says is written on stone tablets. God cannot, by definition, be wrong about anything, even if “he” says “he” can. This is why people argue about religious belief, and about their “true God’ versus other “false Gods”. The “true God” has the true message, the “false God” has the false message, and those who say they do not speak for God have nothing but opinions, not really worth anything.

    Life is all around us, and within us. We could call it heaven…what difference would it make? It makes no difference if we cannot appreciate its beauty, if we cannot love and respect it. and restore it to wholeness. Where are the spiritual leaders on the front line of environmentalism? Who among them protects the land, the water, the air, the animal from rape and destruction by the forces of greed and domination? The Lakota keeper of the sacred pipe is on the front line in North Dakota with the DAPL protectors. Some church leaders came there as well. Where are the others?

    If there is a God, she most likely does not condone the destruction of her creation by fools, anymore than a painter would like to see his paintings destroyed.

    • Jethro

      I have yet to find someone who says the same thing I do. Through long and even short conversation we can agree to agree or sometimes disagree, but mostly when the conversation is about caring for life, all agree. With or without spirituality, not all people will agree. Indigenous Americans have always had a deep spiritual recognition for nature/earth/the land. It is true that Europe moved into this land, called it America and took away from others the very thing they came here to have. They used their God to do so. Had they not, I may very well live in the Appellation mountains.

      You have stated what is needed, you know in your heart what is needed. Then be that. You have begun to be already, the spiritual leader you have asked for. Heaven as it was explained to me, is a place where we do not have to fight to have our surroundings be the way we wish. Heaven the the place we wish it to be. To say heaven is here now is to say that you wish to destroy another persons heaven in place of your own. We cannot call this heaven, we must call it earth, home, our land. Many things on our earth is changing already, people are getting back to natural ways. It took a couple hundred years to reach this point in time that we exist. It will take time to go back if we can.

      There is no need to create a new spirituality, Indigenous Americans have always had the beliefs you desire others to have. Educate others. Spread the word, “preach” the words you so strongly want others to hear. Teach others how to be. Neale is just a man, he wrote down enough of his thoughts to write several books and has made quite an impact on the thoughts of people around the world. The deer and the groundhog will be deer and groundhogs because that’s what they are. Humans will be human too but humans are self important, we can change our minds about things. We can decide we need a pipe to damage our waters and call it “for the good of a nation” or we can decide we do not need a pipe full of oil and call it “for the good of our land”. I personally hope the pipe doesn’t go through. Oil is an evil we don’t need, I say it daily, yet I drive an oversized SUV full of tools to pay my bills.

      There is a God, a Great Spirit, the power/energy of this great spirit drives you to speak out and act out against this evil pipe being forced upon not only your people but any human needing to use the land and water it may destroy. Speak out, not to argue with another humans words, but to teach your own words. Give knowledge, with kindness, let your anger drive you forward but let the kindness do the teaching. You are the spiritual leader you wish to have.

      I hope you succeed in your indever and that no harm will come to any person involved.

    • Stephen mills

      People are acting the way they are acting because they are confused .They only copy what they see or what their culture tells them is the truth .As in Greed is Good .Winner takes all or life is a competition to name a few of the hundreds of messages we get bombarded with daily .
      The culture of which we emerge is causing the demise of the culture .
      Power seems to be given to those with the most wealth ,and from there those chosen few feel entitled to use this power as a justification of continuing the onslaught and destruction of our precious planet and all its life forms .

      President Obama has been very quiet about the pipeline being build and of the feelings of the indigenous people that have to live in this area as well as the consequences of the decision, as have most of the leaders !

      Your so true this is heaven !
      John Trudell has an enlightened mind and I love your quote from him.

  • Patricia Hayward

    Neale, I want to thank you for who you are, for seeking to know yourself and bravely expressing yourself, in the light of the often cruelness of needy men. If you can keep your cool and not attack, you’ll be like the man, Jesus, doing the work of God. I’m not saying you’ll be Jesus or even really be compared to him for he was one man just like you or I are one man. I’m just saying you sure have and example quite a “calling.” How fun, an how fulfilling for you. God has richly blessed you! (I am a Christian who believes that Jesus is equal to God. I believe that the Bible is true (all of it) and I love you! Patricia Hayward

  • Patrick Gannon

    Nice column. I think it’s very good that Neale reiterates that he could be wrong, and we should all take that to heart, and afford him credit for admitting this.

    I’m pretty well convinced that his writing is the product of his early exposure to a wide range of spiritual and religious texts, including the Bible, the Rig Veda, the Upanishads and the Gospel according to Sri Ramakrishna. HIs bio says he delved into a lot of spiritual texts and held weekly discussions with priests who may have spoken of heretical gnostic texts, for example. Gnosticism is very closely related to Neale’s New Age God and New Spirituality religion, as is much of the eastern spiritual influence. All those neurological pathways wired when he was a young man, likely contributed to what came out years later. I know how words can flow out of your fingers when the brain just takes over, producing what it has stored and ruminated over inside our heads. Sometimes I look at the screen as words pour out of my fingers and it’s almost like someone else is doing it; but it’s just my brain sending the contents of neural pathways through my fingers and onto the screen.

    In his weekly newsletter this week, Neale mentioned that he did not know the information that came to him from God when writing his books, but I find that highly doubtful given all the eastern texts he’s read. Sure he put the ideas into his own words, but the concepts were already there. If he’s studied any of the early gnostic texts like the Gospel of James, I would not be at all surprised. I’m pretty sure from earlier conversations that he said he’d read “Stranger in a Strange Land,” by Robert Heinlein. I was very receptive to CwG when I first read it, in large part because I had read SiaSL many times before and there are many uncanny similarities. That amazing book is all about “knowing” God and being ONE with God, and returning to God where we remember who we are.

    Neale’s writings indicate that he does, or did, believe in things like Moses and the Exodus from Egypt, which practically all non-religious scholars agree did not happen – certainly not as described in the so-called holy book. I remember my first seeds of doubt when reading CwG because Neale seemed quite convinced that Moses was a historical person participating in a historical event – and the odds of either of these is next to zero. It seemed to me that God could have corrected him, and yet failed to do so, just as Jesus failed to tell Adam about evolution, or to let him know that end times weren’t really imminent after all. Revelation always seems to leave out important (and objective) details. Neale thinks Jesus was a historical person, but scholarship on this is quite active right now, and it’s not looking good as more documents the Church failed to destroy turn up from time to time and place to place, such as in Nag Hammadi, giving us a history the Church tried to destroy. Even Paul makes it clear Jesus was a celestial god, not a flesh and blood human who performed miracles on earth, as Neale said he believes in some of his books. The probability of a historical Jesus is probably not as low as for a historical Moses and Exodus, but it’s close.

    I went from believing Neale’s story, to questioning it, to doubting it. When he started pulling a Deepak Chopra and invoking quantum mechanics as evidence for his beliefs, I got really concerned, because Chopra was embarrassing himself, and I think he’s pretty much dropped that concept, and Neale seems to have done so as well. I’ve also learned a bit about the way the brain works. I’ve read a lot of spiritual literature, and I think it’s entirely possible that CwG and other so-called, god-inspired books, are simply a product of Neale’s amazing brain taking what is preserved deep inside and bringing it to the surface, as influenced by emotions, memories, etc.

    That being said, Neale has provided some wonderful ideas and concepts that I apply to my own life, and a lot of material I use when debating other believers. Thanks to Neale, I learned some basic “mindfulness” training which has been very beneficial. The “net” for Neale’s career is probably a mostly positive influence, but I fear he left the biggest problem unsettled. We don’t know. He admits we don’t know. He admits that he could be wrong – which makes him far more reputable than a typical fundagelical or Catholic member of the clergy. However, what he has not helped us deal with is the fact that we don’t know. His solution is to replace old beliefs with newer, nicer ones, but he does not address the distinct possibility that it is beliefs themselves that have created so much human angst and conflict. When we create internal cognitive conflict by telling our brains to believe things our brain knows we don’t know – how can that be good for us as individuals and as a society?

    I hope Neale will continue to focus on those three important words in the time he has left: “I don’t know.” He speaks of not having purpose without beliefs, but I don’t agree with that at all. Not knowing and admitting it, means a life of discovery, challenges, seeking, learning, evolving and sharing. That sounds like a pretty good purpose to me. To evolve to our next stage, I propose that this is what we have to learn to accept and face head on – that we just don’t know, and we (probably) shouldn’t lie to ourselves and say that we do.

    • Gross Prophet

      Again – stop trying to make your experience the only model for everyone else in the world. Simply because you yourself either can not, or will not, allow yourself to experience ‘god’ directly, does not mean that everyone else on the planet is so limited.

      • Patrick Gannon

        Stop trying to tell others on a public forum what they can and can’t say. It’s not your forum.

        • Gross Prophet

          Why don’t you take your own advice, and stop trying to negate everyone else’s experience? You are nothing more than a cynic, a critic, and a hypocrite.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’ll accept cynic and critic, but you’re going to have to prove hypocrite.

          • Gross Prophet

            What is every single one of your posts in this channel, but an attempt to stifle what others are relating as their experience? You never miss a single chance to try to completely nullify/negate their experience, simply because of your own fervent BELIEF. Then you say ‘stop trying to tell others on a public forum what they can and can’t say.’

            Hypocrite. It’s pretty well self-evident.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Questioning the subjective experiences of others, is not an attempt to stifle them. If one’s ego is so bruised and battered because someone questions their subjective experience, then perhaps they have more pressing mental health issues to deal with.

            You are confirming my hypothesis, as the questioning of beliefs surely generates hostility as I have suggested. The evidence supporting my assertion has been presented quite well here by folks like you, GP. Why should my questioning of beliefs, create so much angst and hostility with you? Do you realize that the exact same thing happens when fundagelical or other religious beliefs are questioned – resulting in exactly the same thing as what you do with juvenile name calling and insults? One would expect that if Neale’s beliefs have something of value to offer, a deeper sense of spirituality, then the response I get from fundies and Catholics, for example, would be greatly tempered and smoothed by a more spiritual response – but such is most definitely not the case. You and Annie could easily be fundies responding to me in other forums because I question a six day creation. There is no difference. You have no advanced spirituality with which to respond. Neale has accomplished nothing if you are an example of his work. Just like fundies, you respond in anger and hostility because a part of you – your beliefs – have been questioned, and it hurts because your brain knows that I’m right – that you can’t prove those beliefs and hence can’t be sure of them; so you lash out at the one who dares to be skeptical.

            Why not just ignore me? Have I hurt you so badly by questioning beliefs that you feel you must hurt me with childish name calling in order to feel better about yourself? I’m guessing deep down, you think I’m right, and that really pains you, doesn’t it?

            Yes, I will question subjective experiences (including my own) because I’ve learned a bit about how the brain works and I know how little we can trust it to be completely accurate. There isn’t a cop, lawyer, prosecutor, psychiatrist, psychologist or counselor who will not question subjective experiences if they are halfway competent. We know that subjective experiences are very much open to question, and very frequently wrong. This is well documented. As I’ve suggested before, a good place for those not willing to put in the time with reading the literature, is to watch the show “Brain Games.” Science Channel had on a show about how the brain works last night and it confirmed some of these points as well. I can’t remember the name of the show, it was on just before ‘Your brain on video games.’

            I have never told anyone to stop sharing their experiences, but if my questioning them stifles people from sharing them, what does that say about the confidence they have that those experiences are real? Even Neale admitted it could all be made up.

          • Gross Prophet

            Patrick, I treat you as a juvenile because you act like a juvenile. I am not personally angered by your constant badgering and belittling of the beliefs of others, I am disgusted and depressed that such an obviously educated individual has never learned to simply ‘live and let live’.

            You are doing every bit as much harm by constantly and consistently diminishing and/or denying the experience of others as what you BELIEVE they do to themselves simply by BELIEVING as they have been lead by their life experience.

            You couch this criticism as a general concern for the mental well-being of, what, humanity-at-large, and expect us to believe that is your sole, or even primary, motivation? That is absurd on its face. If you weren’t compelled by some inner demon of your own embracing, you wouldn’t be so obsessive about trotting it out EVERY, SINGLE time anyone posts ANYTHING in this venue. You would simply lay the idea out there, and let it germinate. That is all that TRUTH requires.

            You keep asking, ‘why not just ignore me?’, and yet can not see that you are the pattern that I have copied in that regard. Why can you not simply let others share their experience, and leave it at that? No, EVERY, SINGLE TIME you have to come on and drop the whole stinking pile of speculation yet again, as if no one had ever seen it.

            No, I do not ‘think’ you are right — I KNOW that you are wrong. But if you had not consistently exhibited this compulsiveness about trying to PROVE everyone else wrong (or at the very least ‘confused’) about their own life experience, I would leave you alone. I’m not trying to proselytize, or preach, or convert anyone. And I freely admit that, as far as ‘messengers of god’ go, I am about the absolute worst that anyone could choose (hence the choice of screen-name). But if I see someone who absolutely refuses to let others alone to do what they came here to do, I get a little testy.

            I also hoped that at some point I could get you to see that your life experience is your own trip, and is not NECESSARILY, IN SPITE of your supposed devotion to ‘science’ what everyone else on the planet needs at this point in their lives. As mewabe said in his post, it’s about ‘being’. You evidently have some things to work through that a whole multitude of others do not, at least not this time around. I have no need of ‘brain games’, or your reading list, as you have absolutely no idea of the extent to which I have already studied in these fields.

            Question subjective experiences all you want, as that is a good rule of thumb. But perhaps not do it quite so often, or so vociferously, FOR OTHER PEOPLE. At that point, you are essentially critiquing hearsay, and what cop, or prosecutor, or psychologist would ever bother with that? You, by definition, can have absolutely no clue as to either the nature, or profundity, of SOMEONE ELSE’S EXPERIENCE — especially as you have purposely chosen to preclude such from your own experience.

            You have also consistently mis-characterized my motivations and reactions, as evidenced above. So, just how trustworthy are we to take your observations about others’ even more meaningful discourse?

          • Patrick Gannon

            “You are doing every bit as much harm by constantly and consistently diminishing and/or denying the experience of others…”

            Prove that. Have I harmed you? Have I harmed anyone else here? Does anyone here feel that by questioning their experiences, I have harmed them in some way? Please tell me how and why you feel you have been harmed in being asked to question your own beliefs and experiences. How can personal introspection be harmful?

            It could be. I have asked the question several times, whether it might be a good thing to lie to ourselves, to tell ourselves to believe things we don’t know. Lying to ourselves – if that’s what it is – is somehow healthy or beneficial for us, then can you tell me why and how that would be so?

            I bought into NAG in a big way, and it did bring a level of feeling akin to a drug experience. You can see that look in the eyes of many believers of various denominations and religions. It’s almost like some of them are stoned on Jeebus, just as I was stoned on NAG. It was a great feeling, but it didn’t feel like truth,and when I questioned it, I could find nothing to support it as truth beyond my own subjective experiences which I know I must doubt if I am to be honest with myself. Truth is not as comfortable, but I think it’s a better path. Tell me why I’m wrong.

          • Gross Prophet

            If you BELIEVE that you do no harm in your posts, then how do you justify your BELIEF that others BELIEFS are doing them harm?

            I suspect, from your last post, that you feel personally hurt and/or betrayed by YOUR OWN ACTIONS/REACTIONS to Neale’s offerings in the past, and are now engaged in this crusade to deliver others from this ‘evil’. But it was YOUR OWN decisions regarding them, not anything that Neale wrote, that you should be mad at. It seems like you are, so, that’s at least a first step.

            Do you really not see that your assertion that you have found ‘the truth’ is the same thing that you say that you are attempting to eradicate in others? Are you really so blindly deluded, or is it just your own resentment which keeps you from seeing the real ‘truth’ of this matter?

            ‘Truth is not as comfortable, but I think it’s a better path.’ You are wrong in that you believe that you can define ‘truth’ for everyone else. The fact that you don’t see that gives me great concern for your present mental health.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Answer my question. Have I harmed you by questioning your beliefs and experiences? If so, tell me how? You made an accusation. Back it up. Put up or shut up.

            My “crusade” if you want to use that word, is with regard to all beliefs – not just Neale’s. Do you think the Catholics and Fundies don’t try to tear me to bits? Do you think my FB friends who believe vaccines cause autism don’t get angry at being presented with evidence to the contrary? Questioning beliefs is a dangerous game. I don’t question on Muslim sites any longer because I’ve had my life threatened twice and I don’t hide behind Avatars or fake usernames. Talk about hostility at having beliefs questioned!

            The “truth” I have found, is the understanding that I don’t know. The truth is the admission of ignorance, not the hiding from it; not lying to myself and saying I know things that I’m ignorant of. I have never said that I “can define “truth” for everyone else.” Please don’t join Annie with the straw man arguments – that’s her gig. Yours is insulting me. Don’t get confused.

          • Gross Prophet

            You constantly make the accusation that others’ BELIEFS are harming them, yet you have provided no justification for that BELIEF, other than your own set of BELIEFs.

            You also refuse to accept when someone throws your own line of reasoning back at you, consistently labeling it as a ‘straw-man’, because you refuse to see any point of view other than your own myopic tunnel-vision of ‘tough love’ against those things that YOU find damaging and distasteful for yourself, and go on to impute the exact same level of MIS-understanding to everyone else.

            YOU don’t know — that we get, abundantly. But to say that others absolutely, unequivocally, indisputably can not KNOW some things which they do KNOW, is the height of hubris and hypocrisy — and is precisely what you attempt to do in every single post here. That is not a straw-man. Caution someone all you want, but don’t attempt to completely negate the REALITY of THEIR subjective experience. Get off your home-built high-horse already.

          • mewabe

            I don’t mean to barge in on this conversation, but I would like to make a small comment.

            I will relate my own view about beliefs.

            On my own “spiritual” (self knowledge) journey, I made it a point of questioning and discarding as many beliefs, assumptions, perceptions and expectations, social and cultural conditioning as I could. It was not an easy path, for at some point I stood over a mental abyss, facing a nihilist void and very much against society, culture and all religions. But I feel fearless and I am a lone wolf by temperament.

            To me spirituality was always about one thing only: the pursuit of the truth. Not beliefs, theories, assumptions or wishes…and certainly not comfort, not security, nothing than would numb the mind in exchange for feeling safe…I despised this.

            I came to understand that there is only one truth: being. The truth of a tree is being a tree…that of a horse is being a horse. It is entirely subjective and each being is unique. I consequently endeavored to understand what being human meant for me, by being completely, fully in accordance with my own nature. That’s what Taoism and Zen teach by the way, to find your own spontaneous, innate nature.

            It is then that I also understood that knowledge was a mind thing. Knowing is a being thing. The knowing of being was all I needed.

            There is no need for mind-cluttering beliefs on such a journey. Like the calm surface of a clear lake, your mind comes to reflect the nature of the universe, which is….pure, simple being. There is infinite beauty and power in this, as your being resonates with all beings.

            Beliefs as to why and how we are here, where we come from and where we are going are the concerns of all religions and of anxious, busy minds.

            Being, here and now, is the domain of spirituality.

            I will grant the fact that beliefs are what hold cultures and societies together, through group thinking. But group thinking is not thinking, it is allegiance to the group, by which process individual, critical thought is suppressed through mild collective pressure or outright coercion. Group thinking is always extremely dangerous.

            These are my views, this my way, it needs not being anyone else’s…we are all on a different path, and I personally love being on an uncrowded one.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Mewabe. Your understanding of the nature of beliefs, and your attempts, like myself, to manage them, seems to result in less personal antagonism towards others who might question your experiences, for example.

            I know about the hostility first hand. It’s funny that my journey away from NAG (New Age God) actually began here when a participant several years ago liked what I said and asked me to join a forum called “The God Debate?” In that forum I questioned the Abrahamic religions and experienced the same sort of hostility that I get here for questioning beliefs. On the other hand, I strongly defended the NAG concepts at that time as a virtual Neale Walsch disciple, and I recall how angry it made me when others questioned my beliefs – particularly atheists. I sided with them in their battle against Yahweh, Allah and Jesus, but I reacted angrily to insistence on evidence for NAG, which, of course, like the fundies, I could not provide. I searched and searched for experiments that might confirm psi effects or the manipulation of matter by consciousness. It’s just not there in a clear enough way to be of any use. The results are all “in the noise,” that is within the range of statistical error.

            It took some time, and a lot of reading and study, but eventually I realized that I had simply exchanged one set of Christian beliefs for another set of NAG beliefs, without having accomplished anything useful and meaningful in my life. It was only when I began to question my own beliefs, that the level of hostility to others questioning those beliefs, began to abate and eventually go away. Yeah, I still get my back up when I am attacked personally, but since I hold few beliefs that I’m aware of, my level of hostility to those questioning what I think (rather than what I believe) is far less than when I held beliefs and they defined who I thought I was.

            There are probably a couple atheists I should go back and apologize to; but their atheism was almost a belief system, and they would get very angry and personal in their attacks, as well. Unlike them, I’m agnostic and acknowledge that I don’t know, but I really made a fool of myself getting angry at them, because I couldn’t provide evidence for my beliefs. I stopped believing, and started thinking, and what a remarkable improvement in my life that turned out to be!

          • mewabe

            Thanks for your reply Patrick…I never mentioned that my rejection of beliefs also caused me to become a world citizen, whose allegiance is to life and the earth, not to any nation, as I also reject all nationalistic beliefs. The more you travel, the more you realize that all humans are very similar, and all nations have positive and negative aspects.

            The American myth of superiority in particular is deadly as it allows for exceptionalism, justifying intervening in the internal affairs of other nations and brutal regime change.

            I have never understood the ridiculous pride people have in being of a specific nationality, as if being born on a specific spot on this planet was an actual achievement!…you will never ever see me wave any flag, not even an earth flag (perhaps a pirate flag).

  • Spiritual_Annie

    Hey, y’all, just wanted to let you know that Neale made it through the procedure yesterday. His son didn’t get the news out until later in the day or I would have posted sooner.

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • Jethro

      Thank you

    • Gross Prophet

      Yes, thank you.

    • Stephen mills

      Thanks Spiritual_Annie ,very much appreciated .

    • A true friend

      Shouldn’t God cure Neale in a blink of a eye. Surely he can. So why doesn’t he? Also where are the HEBs ? God should have told them by now to send me a time machine.

      • Jethro

        God has gifted Neale with the struggle of having a human body, as he has since Neale was conceived. That struggle will not be taken away as god will not take back that gift. Neales relationship with God may provide him with the best thoughts about his time of healing. He may understand that the struggle is a gift and not a curse. The HEBs understand that you do not have a need for a time machine and are giving you a chance to experience acceptance. When you are ready, Your thoughts about where you are in any place and time will place you exactly where you need to be. It is your will to be where you are.

        • Patrick Gannon

          If you go back in time to early Christianity and the various sects of Christian gnostics, you find that we were not given the “gift” of a body, but more accurately the “curse” of a body. For these people, the goal was to shed the body and this material world, all of which are evil, and were caused by a secondary god (now known as Yahweh) who was begotten in such a way as to not know that there were other gods. He thought he was the only one and he created our universe, while lacking in wisdom (Sophia). His creation is all messed up because he did not enjoy the “light” that comes from the top god – the God of Light. I forget the details of the story but he came into being without this light. This secondary god lacked wisdom (Sophia), of which a small measure was given to mankind so that we might recognize what a putz our creator is, and strive to get beyond this material world and all its evils and back into the light. In many ways, this idea parallels New Age concepts. Many of those Christian Gnostics thought Jesus’ job was to save us from Yahweh in a spiritual battle taking place in the firmament – something we now know doesn’t exist.

          I would need to see a HEB exercise some celestial skills that violate the rules of our physical matter reality, to be convinced that there are such things. Neale contends that such beings exist and he points to some of the prophets in the bible, invoking Moses and Jesus as examples. Moses is understood to be a mythical person by almost all non-religious scholars, and the same is coming to be said about Jesus as textual scholarship continues to advance and new texts are uncovered that support Paul’s apparent belief that Jesus was a celestial god, and not a historical person. The probability that these two HEBs, Neale uses as examples actually existed are very close to zero. If Neale were writing CwG today, I’m guessing that he wouldn’t have referenced Moses, as two decades later, he’d get a lot more pushback on what almost all non-religious scholars agree is a mythical story. Twenty years from now, I think there will be greater acceptance of Jesus as a mythical person, just as this acceptance has grown for the existence or lack thereof for Moses and the Exodus. HEBs, it seems, like some prophets, are mythical.

          Jethro, you basically parroted back Neale’s teachings, but let us not forget the article from him that is posted here. He admits that he might be wrong. I think he is. He believes that we have the ability to control and manipulate consciousness, and in that case, a HEB (which he does not claim to be) would heal himself by manipulating matter – something for which there is no objective evidence that I’m aware of. I don’t know anything about his condition or procedure, but if he could manipulate matter with consciousness, surely there would be no need for procedures to fix conditions. Apparently he knows of no HEBs willing or able to assist…. Certainly it can be said, that just as no amount of prayer has resulted in amputated limbs being grown back, so too there is no evidence for HEBs curing amputees. Some things are beyond the ability of the gods and their minions it seems, (but science will surely grow back limbs one day!).

          In reading your response here, I am struck by how much the New Spirituality is just like legacy religion. Just as Yahweh hardens hearts, controls events and pulls puppet strings, so too does New Age God control our lives, according to your post here. NAG “gifts” us with a body. We are told that suffering is essentially for our own good, just like Catholics tell their sheeple. The HEBs or “saints” may or may not work their magic depending on the whims of the gods; yet it is claimed that it is our will to be where we are; just as the Abrahamic religions insist we have free will, (while at the same time, their god is pulling our strings). I don’t see a lot of difference, aside from rejecting the wrathful actions of Yahweh and Jesus – the gods (i.e. NAG) are still running our lives and then telling us that it’s our (illusory?) free will.

          In both cases, it’s extortion. If you don’t believe, say and do what Yahweh wants, then you go to eternal torment. If you don’t believe, say and do what NAG wants, then you come back and do it over and over again till you get it right. Hmm, I’m seeing the mark of eternal torment there…

          Maybe things just happen out of coincidence, statistical probability, randomness, etc. and there are no gods pulling strings, and there is no afterlife and this is all we get and maybe we should make the best of it. Maybe we should try to live life to the fullest here instead of banking on some celestial reward, or another life in which to get it right. Maybe there are no second chances. All we know for sure – as Neale admits – is that we don’t know.

          As for free will, I highly recommend a very short book called “Free Will” by Sam Harris a neurologist who may give you a different view of that concept – one that is actually very humanizing. His conclusions support rehabilitation over punishment, which has always been the Abrahamic way. NAG simply shifts the punishing to ourselves, suggesting that we choose to “punish” ourselves by selecting many of the conditions of our next lives. We call this ‘learning,’ or ‘remembering’ but at it’s core it’s punishment for not getting it right. Hmm, it occurs to me that Christians use the same term, suggesting that we “choose” to reject their god and instead “choose” eternal torment – much I guess as a storekeeper chooses to hand over his receipts to an extortionist mafia goon rather than have his kneecaps destroyed. What kind of free will do you have when you’re being extorted?

          Gods always seem to be associated with punishment in some way or other, don’t they? It’s not that any of us think we need punishing – it’s that we just can’t let go of the idea that Joe who committed some horrible crime, will get away with it if there is no next life in which to punish him. We yearn for those we see as evil to get what’s coming to them, and NAG is no different in this; the means of punishment are changed and it’s claimed we choose to punish ourselves, but the net result is the same. We mere humans are punished for not living up to the standards of some imaginary invisible being that lives in the sky, just like the Abrahamic religions. Why do we put this pressure on ourselves when there is no objective evidence for any gods in the first place? Perhaps it’s time for us to evolve beyond this.

          • Gross Prophet

            Do you actually dislike your own life now so much, that you would view ‘coming back’ as a form of punishment? How truly bizarre, and telling of your personal perspective. By ‘coming back’ we either have the opportunity to simply enjoy being alive, and experiencing the wonderful world around us, or we can choose to work on some aspect of our character (wink, wink), or do both simultaneously.

            I personally find it exhilarating to believe that I have been allowed to personally witness some of humanity’s most pivotal moments/eras. and even more enthused about what the future holds.

          • Patrick Gannon

            No, I don’t dislike my life, nor did I say that. I’m a bit bored with my career, but I love the intellectual aspects of my life as well as ‘communing with nature’ as Mewabe would put it. I live in the country and love the heck out of being and working in and with nature. My life is pretty complete. But I don’t need to do it again. I don’t need a second chance. I don’t need to know I’m going to go on existing, or to believe I’m going to see people who have and will die before me. I’m content knowing that if I die and do nothing but decompose, I will have lived a full and productive life. It’s enough. I don’t want or need to come back and work on any aspect of my character – that sounds like punishment.

            Why is the gift of this life not enough? Is it perhaps because we waste it believing things we don’t know?

          • Gross Prophet

            Or perhaps waste it by railing against the validity of others’ experiences?

          • Patrick Gannon

            That’s possible, but I see it as a social experiment providing me with my own lab, my own experiments, and I’m learning a lot. If responses here and elsewhere weren’t authenticating my hypothesis, I’d move on. Others need only ignore me if they feel like I’m railing against the validity of their beliefs.

            I do agree with many of the things Neale teaches, and one is that we are responsible for our own feelings. Others don’t “make” us angry; we decide whether or not to be angry. We decide what our emotions are going to be. I agree with Neale in this regard, though it was news to me when I first read it, but I think he’s right in this regard. Those who decide to be angry and hostile because their beliefs are questioned are responsible for their own feelings – not me, not anyone else. If your panties are in a twist – untwist them yourself. It’s nobody else’s responsibility to do that for you.

          • Gross Prophet

            Once again, you completely mis-characterize my response. I have no animosity towards you, you evoke no anger or hostility in me. This is just the way I communicate.

            Again, I would say, ‘Physician, heal thyself.’ It is you who exhibit those characteristics which you project onto others.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I beg your pardon. A continuous stream of insults should not be taken as hostility. OK. Got that.

          • Gross Prophet

            No more than your constant and consistent insults to the REALITY of others’ subjective experience, by deriding, disavowing or outright denying them any validity whatsoever.

            ‘Got that.’ No, I really don’t believe you do, or ever have, or ever will…

          • Patrick Gannon

            There’s a difference. Your insults are personal and directed to me as an individual. You are not insulting what I believe; you have directed rather unsavory insults at me that have nothing to do with what I think or believe – they are merely cruel commentaries on my character. I point them out (because I won’t be a doormat), I do my best to avoid responding in kind (very difficult at times), and I shake my head, roll my eyes and try to move back to the topic at hand. You are insulting me as a person, repeatedly and directly in a very tangible way. You don’t hold the high ground here. I don’t see how I can interpret that as anything but hostility for questioning your beliefs.

            If you want to characterize questions about others’ subjective reality as insults to the reality of those subjective experiences, then fine, let’s go with that. I’m not insulting the person, I’m insulting something intangible – their belief in their subjective experience. I don’t see it as insulting; I see it as questioning, but I’ll go ahead with your definition for sake of argument.

            Now if a person has ingrained their beliefs to such an extent that the beliefs = the believer, then I guess I can see how the believer might feel like he or she is being insulted by questions regarding those beliefs. What that means is that the individual is unable to separate him/herself from his/her beliefs. (Which I agree, is not easy). So, I guess I can see how people who identify themselves by what they believe could feel insulted by having those beliefs questioned, as I did back when atheists used to question my NAG beliefs. In retrospect, I can now see that I was wrong to feel insulted, though I’m not sure I defined it that way. So some people are going to feel insulted because I question their beliefs. OK, I’ll accept that. But so what?

            Would it be wrong to question the beliefs of young men who fly airplanes into buildings, or throw gays off buildings, or to question the beliefs of those who insist that women have more children than they can take care of, or be denied equality with men? Is it wrong to ask believers to question their belief that homosexuality is a depraved sin? Is it an insult to question the beliefs of voters who think either Clinton or Trump is as clean as the driven snow? Is it an insult to question the beliefs of a scientist who believes that string theory explains the origins of the universe? Am I insulting that person by questioning their beliefs? Am I wrong to do so? Neale has certainly questioned (insulted?) the beliefs of billions of believers of other religions by questioning and criticizing their beliefs. Why am I the only one taking heat for “insulting” the beliefs of others? I’m just questioning beliefs, not suggesting that they be replaced with my own beliefs, as he is.

            Guess what? Here in the United States of the Offended, we do not have a right to not have our feelings hurt. That, by the way, is another emotion we are each individually responsible for. If you feel insulted because I question the reality of your subjective beliefs, then tough. Deal with it by insulting me and you’ll feel better. I’ll try to keep my eyes from rolling out of my head!

          • Gross Prophet

            You are not as pure as the driven snow, either, patrick, no matter how you try to parse your activity.

            When someone has demonstrated, or at least indicated verbally or in writing, that their beliefs DO NOT AFFECT YOU personally (regardless of your imputation of harm to their alleged or imagined political activity based on those beliefs), then you ought to have the good grace to simply STFU. You have no more claim upon their attention or their life experience. You are not simply questioning beliefs, you are haranguing everyone on here with the same steaming pile of YOUR BELIEFS, when every single one of them has heard it ad nauseum.

            Critique of a thought is one thing. The constant badgering of every single instance of a competing thought is not.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Unless this forum has been turned over to you for moderation, I’m afraid you have no choice but to endure me or stop reading my posts. I’m afraid I’m all out of cheese for your whines.

          • Gross Prophet

            Once again proving that you do not possess any of the moral high ground.

          • Jethro

            Good to meet you Gross Prophet. We all search for many things. We will always be searching. You have a wonderful perspective on life! I respect your writing a great deal. I also have a high respect for Patrick Gannon’s views. I have many things I could learn from both of you. I might set here responding in kindness while using the foulest of language and red faced angry, but it’s good practice to be kind, especially when your angry. You will teach yourself things you didn’t know you knew. There is no such thing as wasted life as all of life gives wisdom, it just takes a little life to help you understand you ever obtained any wisdom. I look forward to more of your posts.

          • Jethro

            My friend Patrick, hope your doing well and business is booming. Aside from knowing HEB stands for highly evolved being, I wouldn’t know a HEB if one walked up and gave my hair back. I could really use a time machine too!! I do believe we have the ability to just accept things for what they are which in turn changes a persons life. I was an alcoholic for 17 years. Simply put, I changed my mind. I had to change the way I thought about everything. Christianity was not and is still not my curing thought. I’m not a follower of Neales, but he had some pretty good thoughts. I’ve chosen to be kind and see people as I see myself, we humans are the same each and every one. I wasn’t always totally sane and I’m not real sure I am, but I feel much better (grin).

            Respond to the post below as kind as you can….

            “Shouldn’t God cure Neale in a blink of a eye. Surely he can. So why doesn’t he? Also where are the HEBs ? God should have told them by now to send me a time machine.”

          • Patrick Gannon

            Yeah, I’d like to get my hair back too. I think maybe you nailed my problem with Neale. I’m jealous of his full head of hair! LOL

            I completely agree that Neale has some great thoughts and ideas, and I leverage several of them in my daily life. Most of the things most beneficial require no belief at all, however. Mindfulness training is very well documented and the military even teaches it to some soldiers so they react better in the chaos of war.
            .
            As for “True Friend” I’m not quite sure what that’s all about. I think he or she is ridiculing the idea. I’m also guessing this may be a participant for whom English may not be a first language.

          • Jethro

            No sir, requires no belief, just action. When belief can be set into action, it becomes more than belief. I believe that people can be kinder to each other and I’m researching that daily by seeing what happens when kindness replaces arguements. Speaking of kindness, I’m having a little fun with true friend. I’d like to know that story a little better. Good mental exercise. I’ve also been cruising the religion/atheist portion of disqus. More good mental exercise! I’m becoming very aware of what’s most important to me, when I can post something that both sides agree with, success.

            Neale has awesome hair man. I’m a bit jealous too!

        • A true friend

          It is not your function, Neale’s ,HEBs, the human race, any other living soul or God to tell me what I am supposed to choose. You are not at freedom to discuss my free will.

          I choose to experience my life the way I choose too therefore I am free to choose whatever I desire regardless of my soul’s “agenda”.
          What I choose doesn’t affect you so it is irrelevant for you what I choose to do. I couldn’t care less of your souls agenda but you have no right at all to say what is my freedom.
          And at which point did I say I want a thing? I said and I quote “God should have told them by now to send me a time machine.”
          This shows only that it’s time for my time machine to arrive. They are already late. It would seem that they don’t make flying saucers like they used too such a shame!

          • Jethro

            There is a place to “reply”. You posted in a public forum. The freedom to comment on other posts was implied. My apologies. It’s true! Flying saucers have really slowed down. There going slow enough to be seen more and more these days. Still fast enough to be blurry in every photo though. I’m sure they’ll get fast again. Be patient, it’ll get here.

          • A true friend

            I said i’m ready! It means I’M READY!

            You should tell God that Mateia Cristian Andrei (my real name by the way) is ready so he should effective immediately send a time machine. Got it ? Oh and here is my proof www dot facebook dot com/profile.php?id=100007762966229. Now STEP IT UP Jethro.

          • Jethro

            You’ve had your time machine the whole time! You just haven’t figured out how to work it. The HEBs must have come to you in a dream that you cannot remember. I had to see a psychiatrist to locate the dreams I had lost. Sure enough I found that what I wanted had already been delivered. I just didn’t know it. To log into Facebook would cause me to forget again so I stay away from that. I take it on faith that you are who you are regardless of your name. Here in the matrix I understand my reality revolves around my thoughts and my body is protected by the caretakers, also known as “The HEBs”. Here in the matrix the power we have, which I have found to be limitless, is in our thoughts. What you are looking for, you cannot find because you believe you do not have it, know that you have it and it will appear. It’s all in the knowing.

          • A true friend

            And at which point did I say I want a thing? I said and I quote “God should have told them by now to send me a time machine.”
            This shows only that it’s time for my time machine to arrive
            Here is my repost to your answer. If you can’t read go back to first grade.

          • Jethro

            How did God know to tell them to send a time machine to you specifically? When you use the words “my time machine” it implies you own it already. For you to assume ownership, you would have had to talk to someone about it or at least had the thought to communicate your “want” or “desire” in order to obtain ownership. After all that, I never said “you” wanted anything, I said I found what “I” wanted.

            A “repost” implies that you are posting something you have posted already. I could not find the original post to this answer could you tell me where it is located? I would like to see if I actually read it incorrectly.

            The first grade was awesome! I would surely enjoy the experience again. At my age I would certainly relate to the teacher a lot better than the first time. Thank so much for the suggestion.

            Did you ever consider your position in the matrix?

          • A true friend

            (“my time machine” it implies you own it already)
            Reread CwG where it states clearly that concepts of ownership don’t exist in HEB societies. I used this form of language to express the subject (time machine) whom i will use to time travel hence the so called possessiveness. Enough about semantics.

            (A “repost” implies that you are posting something you have posted already) My first reply to you.
            (Did you ever consider your position in the matrix?)
            I care only my experience in a specific time space continuum in this case the year 1996 but not in this universe. A parallel world where I have chosen it for personal reasons.
            After i’m done with my experience I will leave the singularity (this multiverse composed of ultimate reality and relative reality)
            I will use my soul to create a new singularity composed of what is now called my soul and create a new reality composed by my formed soul where only I can exist. It will be great for me!

          • Jethro

            (“my time machine” it implies you own it already)
            Reread CwG where it states clearly that concepts of ownership don’t exist in HEB societies.
            “”””You and I are not in an HEB society, nor are we HEBs. You changed the semantics while I wasn’t looking.””””

            A “repost” implies that you are posting something you have posted already) My first reply to you.
            “””I never seen your first post reposted to me, maybe you meant to “refer” the first post to me. Though you did repost it to Spiritual Annie with additional comment.”””

            I care only my experience in a specific time space continuum in this case the year 1996 but not in this universe. A parallel world where I have chosen it for personal reasons.
            After i’m done with my experience I will leave the singularity (this multiverse composed of ultimate reality and relative reality)
            I will use my soul to create a new singularity composed of what is now called my soul and create a new reality composed by my formed soul where only I can exist. It will be great for me!
            “”””I’d have to say you have quite an awesome plan. I wish you the best in your travels!””””

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Hey, friend,

        As I’ve heard Neale say, we are all where we are, when we are, facing the challenges we do in order to fulfill the agenda of our Souls. That agenda may not be immediately obvious to us unless and until we get in touch with Divinity by going within, and certainly may not be obvious to another.

        Neale has also been known to say that the agenda of his Soul is to express and experience that part of Divinity that brings awareness to others about his CWG experience and their own Divinity. (I’m paraphrasing.) Apparently the agenda of his Soul isn’t yet done as one only passes over when it’s complete. In the same way, it’s apparently not part of his Soul’s agenda to heal instantaneously or he would have done so. Maybe he needed to contemplate the way he spends the rest of his time here. Maybe it was the only way to slow him down to rest.

        Maybe the HEB’s, far more advanced than we infants, are aware of the fact that your Soul’s agenda is to be here and now. There’s also a process that the Divine Energy uses which reads “wanting” something as a direct request to confirm that we do, in fact, want that something, actually pushing it out of our experience. Instead, maybe focusing on outcomes without specifics and being grateful that what we prefer already exists but has yet to be available or evident to us in the here and now will be more productive.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • A true friend

          “Maybe the HEB’s, far more advanced than we infants, are aware of the fact that your Soul’s agenda is to be here and now”

          It is not your function, Neale’s ,HEBs, the human race, any other living soul or God to tell me what I am supposed to choose. You are not at freedom to discuss my free will.

          I choose to experience my life the way I choose too therefore I am free to choose whatever I desire regardless of my soul’s “agenda”.
          What I choose doesn’t affect you so it is irrelevant for you what I choose to do. I couldn’t care less of your souls agenda but you have no right at all to say what is my freedom.
          And at which point did I say I want a thing? I said and I quote “God should have told them by now to send me a time machine.”
          This shows only that it’s time for my time machine to arrive. They are already late. It would seem that they don’t make flying saucers like they used too such a shame!

      • Neale has said he has yet to meet an HEB.

        • A true friend

          Reread my comments again.

          • Read my above comment to Patrick.

          • A true friend

            So Marko will HEBs visit you tonight? If not what is they’re excuse?

          • I’m not concerned whether I’m visited by HEB’s or not.

            I would say, they will probably show up when we are ready. Or they are helping me or us in ways that I’m/we’re unaware of, until I or others are ready for physical contact.

            Of course, like this blog says, you don’t have to believe any of this.

          • A true friend

            “when we are ready”
            Well I AM READY. So where are they?
            I thought they would come with their flying saucer and beam me up with their tractor beam!!!
            Don’t tell me that they got scared by Donald Trump’s alien wall.

          • We may think we are ready & I understand your eagerness, as I share that too. I think that while we have an eagerness & desire for such things, we may not be as prepared as we think.

            Some people think they are ready for the big leagues & when they get there prematurely, they realize they are no where near as prepared as they thought they were.

            For me, I seek to find my inner peace & to be & live there as consistently & as often as I can, & from there, live & make my decisions from that space of being.

          • A true friend

            I said i’m ready! It means I’M READY!

            You should tell God that Mateia Cristian Andrei (my real name by the way) is ready so he should effective immediately send a time machine. Got it ? Oh and here is my proof www dot facebook dot com/profile.php?id=100007762966229. Now STEP IT UP Marko.

        • Patrick Gannon

          Then how does he know they exist?

          • I think he would simply say that he trusts the info that was given him. Our current understanding limits us from fully proving many spiritual concepts, but that doesn’t make them untrue.

            For what I would consider HEB’s, try reading Lisette Larkins book Talking to Extraterrestrials: Communicating with Enlightened Beings.

            If you go to amazon you can read the reviews. You may be interested in reading the first top review among others, which is mine.

            They wear no clothes, have no weapons, do not eat, (they get all their nutrition from starlight) or sleep. They very much fit the HEB’s NDW talks about in CwG book 3 & the upcoming CwG book 4

          • Patrick Gannon

            Hmm. I would say he trusts the information that he “believes” was given to him. I think his information came out of the recesses of his brain. I’ve read his bio. He’s been exposed to all sorts of western and eastern spirituality, if we are to believe his bio. I looked up some of the texts his bio references and they are all very much related to NAG in one way or another. I think his brain multiplexed what he knew, mixing it and managing it with emotions and memories, and out came CwG. No big mystery. No revelation. Just an active and productive brain.

            I will agree that not being able to prove spiritual concepts doesn’t make them untrue, but that is an extremely weak argument. Just because I can’t prove that the center of the moon is made of green cheese, doesn’t mean it’s not made of green cheese. This is the same excuse the Exodus apologists make. There isn’t a shred of evidence that the Exodus occurred, but they say that just means we can’t prove that it didn’t occur. Nonsense. Those who make outrageous claims have the burden of proof. If I claim the center of the moon is made of green cheese, the burden is on me to prove that. Aliens with no clothes, weapons and who don’t eat or sleep are extremely rare – so rare that there isn’t a single objectively documented and proven case of such, right? I read through several reviews. I don’t see any discussions about evidence.

            When looking at any possibilities to solve a problem, we must necessarily start with what is most likely, not least likely. The fact that something is rare – so rare that it can’t be objectively documented – means it is extremely unlikely and the last possible explanation, rather than the first.

            I find it interesting that you indicate Neale is going to write more about HEBs without having ever met one. Wouldn’t that be like me writing about string theory when my last physics class was over 40 years ago?

          • If it’s just coming from Neale’s fertile imaginative brain then you are correct. If it’s coming from another place that’s of a spiritual nature that’s another way to look at it.

            It’s my understanding that ET’s show up to those ready for them & the proof is, they don’t have to be physically present to help either.

            Lisette, like Neale make proclamations that can be hard to substantiate. I take what is written & see how it can be applied to my life.

            Things like Hitler went to heaven as said in CwG book one probably is not found anywhere in any literature I know of. For more far out original ideas see Neale’s home with God & the 17 remembrances many of which I’ve never heard of before. And like this blog says, you don’t have to believe any of it.

            How can one substantiate a out of body experience? Or a psychic experience? We don’t have the instruments to gauge that yet.

            I read where a woman prayed to her grandfather for advice to make money. He came to her in a dream & told her to make a clip for women’s purses so they don’t lose their keys. She’s since became a millionaire & created other products too. I don’t think she cares if people believe her story or not. But that’s her experience. Again, just because you can’t prove something doesn’t exist, doesn’t make it true.

            This is especially true in the experience of spiritual, mystical, psychic experiences.

            I think at some point we will bridge the world of the physical with the afterlife through a combination of technology mixed with mental spiritual applications. That’s just me.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Thanks for your response, Marko. The preponderance of evidence (or lack thereof) is surely stacked in favor of the scenario that is most likely, rather than least likely. We know people can have knowledge, information, etc. that is deep in their brains waiting to be released so to speak. Many a psychic claim has been debunked by going back into the subject’s past and finding that they knew something they had forgotten. There’s a famous case of a boy who believed he was formerly a pilot shot down in WWII as he described his plane and being shot down, etc. but it turned out later, “At 18 months old, his father, Bruce Leininger, took James to the Kavanaugh [sic] Flight Museum in Dallas, Texas, where the toddler remained transfixed by World War II aircraft. A few months later, the nightmares began.” This information was left out of news stories about the event.

            How can one substantiate an out-of-body experience? That seems pretty simple to me. Identify something that you could not possibly know otherwise that can be objectively proven. I read Robert Monroe’s book about OoBs and he tried as hard as he could to document his OoBs in this way, but it just wasn’t convincing – it wasn’t objective enough. There was always a way to show that it could have come from his mind. Neurologists know how to manually induce OoBs today, and not once, according to what I’ve read, has a subject been able to identify an object placed out of their sight, for example. There are a number of OoB stories that have been debunked in this way. This has been going on long enough that we should have more objective and compelling evidence by now. I’m not saying it’s not possible; but I think it’s highly unlikely, and as with gods and afterlives, I think we should admit that until science confirms it – we don’t know. I’m not sure it’s healthy to believe in these things given that our brains don’t know – but I can’t get anyone to debate that possibility here. It seems, nobody wants to admit or even explore the idea that beliefs might not actually be good for us.

            The story of the grandfather dream – classic case of digging up what’s already in the brain. Completely unconvincing.

            I agree with your last couple statements. In time science will tell us if there’s anything outside our PMR (physical matter reality) that affects us. When computer power gets advanced enough, we will one day be able to map all the billions of neurons in the brain. If those neurons always act in accordance with the laws of nature, that will tell us there is no external soul or consciousness, or if there is, it’s moot because it doesn’t interact with us. If there is an interaction, then it will no longer be supernatural. By observing and measuring the affects, we will be able to indirectly study it, just like dark matter. Till then, I’ll take your last sentence to heart, only instead of using the word “believe,” I’ll say that I think the probability of real psi effects is very low, based on what we know today.

          • Hi Patrick. There is the scientific rational objective perspective & the subjective mystical perspective. They both exist side by side. We get to choose. We can choose one or the other or both.

            Now (for example) If there is no afterlife, then if believing in it creates a more positive life for someone, that works in their favor, then so be it. If one feels better not believing, so be it.

            If you don’t believe in an afterlife then the subject is finished, there is no debate or further argument. You live & move from that perspective. That’s it.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Marko you said, “Now (for example) If there is no afterlife, then if believing in it creates a more positive life for someone, that works in their favor, then so be it.”

            That is the THE question that I’ve been trying to get at. How do we know that believing in something your brain knows that it does not know, is not actually harmful? After all if our brain knows we don’t know, but we tell it we believe anyway, why wouldn’t that set up a cognitive conflict between what the brain knows and what one has told it to believe? (Exchange word “mind” for “brain” if you prefer).

            I can see that people who actually do know very little, who truly are ignorant (that does not imply stupid, only lacking in knowledge/education), would not have the same cognitive conflict as say someone who does know much more. Using the Abrahamic religions for example, if a person knows there was no six day creation or global flood, for example, because they learned it in school. When their Fundy minister tells them that they must believe in young earth creation and a literal Genesis, wouldn’t that create an internal cognitive conflict? Would that be healthy? Would or could suppressing what you know (particularly if you have objective evidence for it as we do in the case of evolution and geological history) in favor of what you believe, create angst, agitation, and desire to kick the dog or at some point, fly planes into buildings?

            In the case of NAG, we don’t have so much evidence against psi and group consciousness and souls and all that, but we all know that we don’t have any objective evidence FOR these things either; thus the cognitive conflict might not be so bad – yet I certainly endured a lot of anger and hostility for questioning these beliefs here, in the exact same way that I do in other religious blogs.

            Perhaps those who feel better for believing things they don’t know, really don’t know much, so there is little conflict. In that case, is that a good thing? Is religion correct? Is ignorance bliss? Or blessed? Would we all be better off if we were as ignorant as our ancestors who worshipped a myriad of gods and had no understanding of the physical world as we do today? (Personally, I’m not a fan of outdoor plumbing, so I’ll go with knowledge over ignorance!)

            Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

          • I don’t think believing in the afterlife means ignoring progress.

            Neale of course says we accept progress in all the fields except where God is concerned. Sure science, medicine, technology can progress, but our concept of God seems forever stuck in ancient times.

            My personal belief as I’ve said several times is we eventually out grow our need for struggle, pain & suffering & even negativity. In the mean time the best way to see these things is as an opportUNITY for our spiritual growth.

            Suffering is necessary until you realize it is unnecessary.” – Eckhart Tolle 🙂

          • Kirsten

            Hi Patrick,
            When studying psychology, we had to do an exercise, like you feel has happened to Neale, based on the theory ‘you are what you write’. We had to start with characters from any books we liked, a minimum of 4, then age them by 5 years and write our own book staying true to those characters (I did the Trixie Belden books).
            It was crazy, a true learning curve of how much we have within our minds and brains, with regard to anything we needed to ‘pull up’, a log of it distorted and merged with similar topics.
            I was especially shocked at how much I recalled from childhood as mine was set in the 1970s. The fashions, hundreds of songs, you name it.
            I managed to avoid it as I understood the exercise, but most people did mix so many things together that the plots were completely distorted, information innacurate, and they became incredibly defensive about it all, even when rereading the original books later, their original characters and their beliefs and truth about their pasts were completely lost.
            You should try it, its actually fun, and hard to stay on track being true to the originals, rather than brainwashing them with your own ideas. NOT a good teaching or psychology method, unless there is a deliberate agenda or $$$ but a scary exercise in what comes out of the minds of others who may now be practising psychologists now…very scary.
            Take care,
            K

          • Patrick Gannon

            Interesting exercise. I was playing some old Moody Blues albums this weekend and it again occurred to me that there were many places Neale’s ideas came from – including some lyrics in their music. Perhaps one can go “”Steppin’ In A Slide Zone” and end up talking with God…?

          • Kirsten

            Perhaps!! Music is the best way to absorb subliminal messages or information. I had one of those weekends too, a 70s weekend. I think I played Perfect Day and Whiter Shade of Pale a thousand times. Maybe my God book can be about stoned ghosts….oh hang on, thats already what CWG promotes! But if nothing else I learned to play Whiter Shade of Pale on water glasses in my head!! One of those people that does things over and over in my head until I can physically do it….saves time!! Very productive use of time I must say!!!
            K
            Xx

    • Awareness

      The Law of Gratitude is Given 🙂
      Blessings 🙂

    • Jethro

      Hi Annie, have you heard if Neale will be back with us here or was the closing statement truly a closing statement?

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Hey, Jethro,

        The latest I’ve heard is that Neale was released from the hospital already last Sunday. When my ex’s Dad had the same kind of surgery, Dad was in the hospital for a week and a half so I’m thinking Neale is doing very well. I sent a message to his friend who runs his charitable organization yesterday, but I’m sure they’re flooded with inquiries.

        If I hear anything else, I’ll be sure to post it here. Neale’s dedication to awakening people to their own Divinity and freeing humanity from an ancient cultural story will most likely have him back here as soon as he’s able.

        Love and Blessings Always,

        ~Annie

        • Jethro

          I hope for fast healing and full recovery for both. Thank you.

  • Patricia G Howell

    Thank you Annie. I came just to see how Neale was doing. Blessing in a comfortable and easy healing now.

  • mewabe

    Fun facts and updates about the on-going struggle to stop a pipeline i(the “black snake”) n N. Dakota:

    8 representatives from 8 different Christian churches (including the Baptist and Evangelical Lutheran, amazingly, and Episcopal, United Methodist, etc) went to the Sacred Stone Camp in N. Dakota to stand in solidarity with the Indigenous people against the DAPL (Dakota Access Pipeline), and to denounce and completely repudiate the Christian Doctrine of Discovery and of dominance (which Cristopher Columbus used to validate invasion and enslavement and on which the United States still bases its prejudiced and obviously backward legal relationship with Indigenous people, believe it or not).

    Now for the fun facts: I did not see or heard of any “spiritual teacher” showing up. I am not directing this criticism at Neale, evidently he went through a very challenging time with his operation and must take care of himself, and I hope he recovers fully and feels better than ever. I am addressing this criticism at all of the well known New Age gurus who do not seem to be able to muster either the concern, the courage or the moral integrity to take a stand for the earth, for all life on this planet, for the environment, the future generations, and for Indigenous people and all people.

    This is blatant example of why I consider most of the New Age movement ridiculously irrelevant and truly detached from true spirituality (not to mention reality) which is about our connection, our oneness with all life, not about polishing our belly button, brightening our aura or channeling the Great White Brotherhood.

    Among Native Americans, a spiritual leader stands for the life of the people and for the earth, for the land, the water, the air, the animals, for all of creation. That’s why such a person is relevant and respected, and loved by his or her people.

    • Kirsten

      Bonjour,
      YOU forgot to turn up Mr Mewabe. YOU should have gone to N Dakota….why someone else?? BE the change you want to see and all that yaddayadda!!
      Ive been so busy polishing my belly button ring, that I’m completely lost, and Dr Google must be off attracting wealth…not helpful either!!
      Whats wrong with Neale, Professor Mewabe Biltongburg…why not have some dried meat? Ill send you some all the way from South Africa. Not that I’m there so may take a while.
      I didnt know Neale was unwell or having surgery, and Im nosy!!
      Take care,
      Kirstein

      • mewabe

        Hau kola (not coca cola, kola),
        I went to N. Dakota for a few days with some Pomo friends. Unfortunately I have a mortgage to pay and had to come back. I did not get arrested (darn). This is the front line of change. Our corrupt politicians, our corrupt judges, our corrupt system will not change anything, the people have to by all possible peaceful means.
        “They got the guns, but we got the numbers” (Morrison).
        Neale had heart surgery, I heard it through the grapevine (Spiritual Annie, right here on a previous post).
        How’s that moldy fried bread?
        Chief Lame Buffalo

        • Spiritual_Annie

          My friend, mewabe,

          Don’t be too perturbed at not being arrested. In my younger years, I was hauled off as part of a group of peaceful protesters (ah, the rebel years, pre-mortgage et al). We were released when a parent showed up to claim us. Mama was there in a heartbeat but even just sitting in the police station was fairly intimidating (ah, pre-civil liberties and pre-cell phone–much less instant uploading). No witnesses but other cops. Helplessly handcuffed. Manhandled during our “arrest” at the scene when we went limp, certainly aware that angry cops could be violent and cross personal boundaries and threaten more to come that would be worse.

          Yep. Made an impact. Or, started to. Probably would have imprinted had Mama not immediately told me how proud she was to be getting a call from the police for me instead of immediately worrying about bail money for my oldest brother (the proud-to-admit-black-sheep-but-later-postal carrier-and-union rep). And then heard from a friend of mine who had also been hauled in just how much crap my Mama had given the police on the phone because they were being warned of her imminent arrival and she was “coming in hot” and almost feeling sorry for the cops. They’d ruffled the Mama Hen’s protective instincts, and about the baby girl no less. Pure as the driven snow. (Ever seen snow that’s been driven over?) I’d call it pre-getting caught.

          At least you made it a priority to show when you could. Being spiritual doesn’t mean acting saintly. Oh, wait. Some of them actually lived, didn’t they? 😉

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          • mewabe

            Thank you Annie, my experience in N. Dakota was very spiritual, as the camp is full of very interesting and committed, conscious people who really stand for life rather than against anything (the pipeline is against life so they stand in its way), and there is constant prayer (sweat lodges, etc). I wish I could have stayed forever!
            Take care!

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I’ll bet it was spiritual, mewabe. And what you say matches what I’ve been reading and seeing from the indigenous people. It’s why all the official word from the Sacred Stone Camp reflects what’s going on most accurately – – peaceful prayer meetings held by water protectors. And why I keep pointing out that the Missouri empties into the Mississippi, which empties into the ocean. All is connected.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

        • Kirsten

          Hi Chief,
          Nice name…since Im having a French week, lame is a type of glittery ribbon so Im sure you look real pretty!!!!
          Glad you went, and damn mortgages are a pain in the buffalo wing, althour utilities here are shocking as well. In USD approx, in our average household apparently, electricity $200 mth, water and waste $100 mth, phone internet tv etc $200 mth, insurances $300mth, council rates $200 mth. NZ has become so expensive to live in now, its insane. And the average rent is now $500 week. People just cant survive on one income, generally because of immigration, welthy americans, asians and indians flocking here AND buying up real estate as investments when the live off shore so real estate has doubled in ten years. In Auckland where half the population luves the average house price is now around $700k in USD. The next generations are all screwed, they just cant afford their own home, and arent having kids because they just cant afford them. Shocking.
          Corruption sure makes the world spin…right off its axle.
          But the laws in America must be pretty lax since you didnt get arrested, surely being a streaker at such a function, other than your cap with Walmart on it must be a crime! No? Not even the cap?
          Breads still holding out strong thanks, I think its crystalising and the stack is forming into a sculpture. Very impressive I must say. Has pride of place on the dining room table next to my cow dung placemats.
          Anyway take care Mewbob.
          Princess Leastein

          • mewabe

            Prices are kind of high in California as well…you have to work hard to get ahead, or else drop out of the rat race and become a beach bum…in Baja California. Sounds good to me…Wealthy Americans are ruining everything aren’t they? You didn’t get wealthy investors from Hong Kong, who buy sight unseen?…they ruined Vancouver in Canada (prices went through the roof).
            Cow dung will not do with a fried bread sculpture…you need buffalo dung to keep the theme consistent, don’t you know? It’s on the way!
            Chief Charging Cricket

          • Kirsten

            Hey…..you’ve just solved one of the great mysteries of life……cicadas dont rub their wings constantly to try to score…they have a stutter!!!
            The mainstream media do their jobs well….report what they are paid and bribed to report by the wealthy that employ them, thats their job, not to tell us the facts. We’re just the dumb mugs that give them $$$.
            Take care Chief Beerstein and I eagerly await the new placemats, well as much as one could possibly await a pile of shirt!
            K
            Xx

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Kirsten,

        Neale had what turned out to be quintuple bypass surgery, though they only knew about four going in. His son has reported Neale making it through the procedure well, his sharing with Neale how many were meditating and praying and such, and Neale’s thanks and wonder at what the concentrated healing energies of a group of people could do. Last I heard, he was doing well for what he’s been through.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Kirsten

          Hi Annie,
          Thanks for that..huge surgery.
          Take care,
          K
          Xx

    • James Twyman is one spiritual leader who has gone around the world & continues to do so in regards to hot spots. He often gets as many people to do collective prayer. He’s talked to political leaders as well. Yet even people like himself & Neale have soooo many projects going they by that very nature have to limit what they do.

      Neale too has so many of his own programs going on. Mentor programs, talks, book writing, websites & blogs, news bulletins & a vast amount of emails & people inviting him to do talks & workshops. Plus he has 9 kids & many people he employees just so he can focus on his work to keep up with his writing and answering what letters & emails he is inundated with. Plus much more going on in his life that most of us are unaware of.

      I mentioned to a reporter friend of mine the lack of coverage of certain things going on in the world & not giving the full story. His response was, that it was a hard thing for reporters & such because there is only so much space in a paper & time limits that prevent everything from being reported.

      We all pick & choose our battles that we fight for. We can’t do everything or we will go crazy. I pray & visualize world peace daily. I don’t fret about it, I just put the energy out because I think it does some good. It hopefully attaches to like minded energy & grows & expands.

      If you think DAPL is a big issue, imagine if Trump gets elected! Blessings.

      • mewabe

        Corrected version:
        I think continuing to heavily invest in oil extraction and infrastructure is a huge issue…as we have already, according to scientists and based on the oil we have already extracted, guaranteed a major climate shift and its terrible consequences…and that’s not mentioning the 8000 significant incidents that occurred with pipelines in the US since 1986, which reportedly caused over 500 deaths and over 2000 injuries, and left an extremely toxic trail.

        I don’t think the mainstream media’s lack of coverage of such issue is due to a lack of time or space…there is plenty of time and space to talk about the Kardashians and other totally irrelevant topics. Most of the media is not independent but owned or controlled by corporations that have a financial interest in promoting war and in promoting the interests of the oil industry, weapon industry and others. Journalists who do not toe the corporate line get fired, those who do get promoted.

        The point I often make here is that the spiritual, who in our western cultures is often a reformed and former religious person, with a likely Christian background, keeps doing as Christians do: ignoring the earth and concentrating on the welfare of humanity, missing the fact that without a healthy natural environment, there will likely be no or very few people left. We cannot live without earth…but if we could, should we? Should we trash everything we touch, and isn’t this the symptom of a profound spiritual illness, one that does not seem to be addressed by anyone but a couple of western mystics and by Indigenous people?

        Trump is very dangerous, and his followers are even more so. With him would come the death of the environment. Furthermore, he might be tempted to be a little dictator, which is apparently what his followers want, and as all the laws are on the book to make it legally possible. Unfortunately the Republicans and Democrats are as 2 heads arguing with each other but attached to the same body, which moves forward in the same constant direction, that of the supremacy of and near absolute control by the military-industrial-corporate-banking complex.

        • All great points Mewabe. I just read where Noam Chomsky in an interview with Ralf Nader has never been interviewed on any of the ABC, NBC, CBS news & rarely anywhere else. Yes Democracy Now is good & I’ve seen her speak in Madison WI during the Bush Administration.

          By the way NBC, ABC, CBS do not report a lot of bogus stuff that is on the internet. Example Bush said McCain fathered a black child. None of the mainstream media reported this, but it was all over the internet. These mainstream media have some accountability. In truth McCain had adopted a black child.

          The abundance of internet news is also bogus, but like all times of great transition, it pinnacles & peaks to a glorious end, burning to the ground. That time is not yet.

          But Trump is a product of a CERN accident that created a warp in our reality, creating an alternative reality we now have. I’m joking slightly, but the absurdity is grand! Trump is like a billionaire bad guy in a Marvel comic book. Who while saying the most ludicrous things, gets taken seriously. It’s a grand farce!

          But it’s the beginning of the end. We are in a transition to a new renaissance. It can’t come soon enough! But in the mean time we do what we can.

          • mewabe

            Yes there is a ton of non credible or totally crazy stuff on the internet, especially Youtube, including someone who believes the earth is flat. It’s comical…Youtube is an open window into the contemporary pathological human mind. A bit frightening as well…

  • Today is 11/9 and look what happened!

    • Patrick Gannon

      Is this the “The Storm Before the Calm”? The storm just doesn’t seem to let up, does it? I’m not seeing any wave of mass consciousness in America – at least not a mass consciousness that is interested in spirituality.

      I can’t wait to see Mexico pay for the new wall. Let the games begin.

      • I believe this is the storm, but I will embrace the uncertainty & as Neale says in his WECCE book. “Move from worry to wonder.” “From fear to excitement.

        In the mean time, I will process this moment in my disbelief that we appear to be living in an alternate reality as real as any science fiction movie.

        • Patrick Gannon

          Problem is, the “storm” has been going on for over 3 million years since the time of Lucy ( australopithecus), and with no end in sight besides the grave. Who knows. It could be an alternate reality. There are some scientists who are pretty convinced that we’re part of a simulation.

          • mewabe

            The human world qualifies to be a “reality show” for the entertainment of a more evolved alien race.

          • Stephen mills

            It’ s probably the greatest spectacle in the galaxy watching a species evolve consciously so it doesn’t annihilate itself . Finally ready to meet other higher evolved races in the cosmos .

          • Patrick Gannon

            On the other hand, perhaps one of the reasons we see no signs of extraterrestrial life is because life forms that evolve consciousness such as ours inevitably kill themselves off.

          • Stephen mills

            Then again perhaps higher consciousness considers consequence .Ever heard of the prime directive .There has to be millions of other civilization out there …its logic Captain .Some more highly evolved and some less so .We will find out for sure probably in this century ? If we make it past 2020 .

          • Patrick Gannon

            “We will find out for sure probably in this century ? If we make it past 2020.” LOL. You don’t sound too confident…

            The nice thing about aliens if they exist and if they visit us, is that we will have objective evidence.

          • mewabe

            I would not say that our consciousness has evolved much…we are still primarily motivated by animal drives, such as a drive for dominance (the alpha male or female), to protect territory, possessiveness, fear of the unknown and of what is not understood, etc

          • It’s my understanding that all societies & beings go through this same evolution that we are going though. So we are not alone & like the butterfly who will die if you try to help it out of the cocoon, we need to go through this. Now remember, once the butterfly breaks free from the cocoon it doesn’t spend the rest of it’s life in struggle.

          • Patrick Gannon

            How do you come by this “understanding”? What is that based on? What evidence is there for other beings? (Just jerking your chain).

            Not bad being a butterfly. Once you emerge, you have two things on your mind – eating and mating. That works!

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Thank you, Marko!

          I really needed a good belly laugh to release some of the pent up energy of my shock and augh upon waking to the news.

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

  • mewabe

    Trump the populist won. The Democrats did not loose, this is merely a changing of the guard. The military-industrial-corporate-banking cartel is still in charge. The only thing that will upset this power is an uncorrupt third party, which the establishment won’t allow, as the establishment is the military-industrial-corporate-banking cartel.
    It seems America has to face its inner demons before it can evolve.

    • Oh if we only had Bernie for president!

      • mewabe

        Or else Jill Stein…or both.

    • A true friend

      I can’t wait for everything to blown up in their face.

      • mewabe

        It will, sooner or later…humanity cannot be abused forever without consequences, and neither can mother nature.

      • Patrick Gannon

        “I can’t wait for everything to blown up in their face.”

        Not a very spiritual comment….

        • mewabe

          True spirituality is not about being angel like…that’s a Christian concept. The way I see it, spirituality is about being in harmony with universal laws (natural laws). When we aren’t, there are nasty consequences. That’s part of the natural order, and that’s spiritual. It’s a form of teaching for the deaf and blind, or the slow witted.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I was thinking in terms of how Neale defines and describes spirituality. Being anxious to see another hurt, is not something I think he’d consider to be a good representation of the “highest version of the grandest vision we ever had about ourselves.” I think he would propose that wishing ill will on another will attract that same force to one’s self, and perhaps to some extent that’s true.

            It’s an easy thing to wish for – harm to those we disagree with – but I have a hard time seeing that as spiritual – based on my understanding of the word.

            I’d like to modify part of your characterization of Christians. They do indeed believe in consequences if you don’t believe, say and do the right thing – trust me, they believe there are consequences! I call it extortion, but that’s another discussion. What Christians don’t believe in is consequences for themselves, given that of course they believe, say and do the right things as directed by their clerical masters. I do agree that this is dangerous, but we seem to have evolved a trait that leads us to believe authority without question, and we have to struggle to overcome that trait as we grow into adulthood.

            You don’t stop to question authority when someone in the tribe yells – “watch out for the snake,” or “don’t go out there now,” or “stay away from that sort of spider.” Failing to evolve this trait would likely mean dying young and not passing on your genes; but it’s a trait that seems difficult to overcome or grow out of as some people mature. We’re programmed to accept authority when it says “worship Yahweh or burn in Hell.” Given that we live in a less primitive and dangerous environment, perhaps this trait will begin to fade away… some refer to this as the “God gene.”

          • mewabe

            I am not sure “A true friend” was wishing harm on anyone as much as he wanted to see consequences and an end to this circus. That’s the way I understood it, but I can’t speak for him/her.

            I have no problem watching certain people reaping the consequences of their actions, since negative consequences are a learning tool, as I mentioned before. But spirituality has nothing to do with being or acting “good” or “bad” as defined by religion or spirituality…trust me, these judgments are very relative, and do not exist in the “spiritual realm” according to my experience.

            I never got the trait you describe, to accept authority…on the contrary, I questioned it before I could talk…well, almost. I went further, I rejected all forms of authority very early, and still do. This is why I am as a stranger in a strange world. I do not see any form of authority as being legitimate.

            The example that you mention about snakes or spider…this is how many people teach their children indeed: do this, don’t do that…Why daddy?…because I said so! I am the parent, I know better, you can do what you want when you are on your own, but under my roof you follow my rules!
            That’s authority, and it is as widespread in our societies as herpes.
            Since you bring up the tribe, this is not at all the way Native Americans raised their kids. They appealed to their intelligence, explaining why and how it was better to make certain choices than others. They led their kids through example, not by coercion. They never humiliated their children, hit them, punished them.
            That’s also the way I was raised. My parents were not authoritarian in any way. for this reason I do not fit well in authoritarian systems, because I do not accept the idea of authority. I am a responsible, mature individual, and do not need a master above me to dictate, authorize, forbid, and plan my own actions.

            The exercise of authority is a disease that is very prevalent throughout the world and in many cultures. Native Americans were not exposed to this disease until Columbus landed.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I understand your attraction to the native Americans, but I think you’ve created a myth in your mind that is not completely supported by the record. There were about 150 different tribes and like other people everywhere else, sometimes they raped, robbed, and wiped each other out. Across the country they were as different as Germans and Turks. Apaches were warriors and Hopi were pacifists. They were as different as we are. Apaches and Navajos fought each other continuously like the Germans and French over territory.

            In any event, does it make sense to hold so fast to the past? We have to look forward. Those days are gone and won’t return until and unless we have a major cataclysm, or is that what you’re really holding out for? It may be what we need, but I find it difficult to wish for so many to die.

            You seem to be advocating anarchy, and that’s fine when the population is sparse, as it was for native Americans. Because many tribes lived in loosely connected small groups, formal government was not as essential. What was there to govern? You have hunting, sanitation, childrearing, what else? We have far more complex lives today. I don’t think anarchy is going to cut it. We have to have authority. Someone has to get the job done.

          • mewabe

            No Patrick, no myth. I am perfectly aware of the imperfections of all of humanity…including Native Americans.

            They had and still have however a different worldview than Turks or Germans. You might not be aware of it. This worldview is what I relate to. It is one that is based on the understanding that all life is interconnected and interdependent (in their ceremony, the Lakota end with “all my relations”, meaning that they understand that they are related to all life) It is scientifically as well as spiritually accurate, and leads to a lifestyle that seeks sustainability.

            Sustainability is not an obsolete concept…it is the only one worth fighting for.

            Anarchy is not disorder, but government by the people, in cooperation and egalitarianism rather than competition, hierarchy and exploitation.

            However, I respect your opinion and acknowledge your freedom to think differently. Will our government keep doing the same for all of us? I am not sure…

          • Patrick Gannon

            Sure they had a different worldview than Germans or Turks, but the eastern tribes and western tribes were as far apart in their world views as Germans and Turks – that was the point.

            Anarchy – the dictionary definition: a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.

          • mewabe

            Yes all tribes had different cultures. However most had what they called “the original teachings”, that of living in harmony with the earth, which parallels the teachings of Taoism.

            Of course dictionaries will support the dominant paradigm, and express bias towards alternative worldview.
            The bias here is that without authority there is chaos. This is however a belief, not a fact. Look at nature, do you see a king, a commander in chief, a boss governing nature from the top down? Yet nature is very orderly, and this order is organic, not a top down dictatorship, even though the religious wishes it were. Look into Taoism and you will understand what I mean.

          • Patrick Gannon

            This is confusing to me. On the one hand you wax on eloquently about how wonderful nature is, and point out it’s self-organizing power structure, which can be clearly seen in the pecking order of many, if not most species that live in groups, as we do. You want us to become more like that nature, but then you disparage the animal part of us that is driven by nature, saying we have to evolve out of the alpha drive that is responsible for the societal structure of many species in nature.

            Animals certainly exert authority, control and power over others in their groups, and are in a perfect position to exploit those who are below them. This is, whether we like it or not, “natural” behavior for many species. I think we’ve evolved quite a bit, and in a positive way. You do realize that most animals in nature die while being eaten alive, right?

      • Joni

        A true friend to who. You don’t sound like a friend I would want.

        • A true friend

          “A true friend to who”
          He is already rich and he being a president could even be a conflict of interest. He didn’t even built his riches on his own efforts since he was born in a privileged family He wants to deport mexicans but is okay marring foreign top models. Twice! Boy I haven’t even had a girlfriend and im 25. Is this really what Americans what to represent them.
          “You don’t sound like a friend I would want.”
          I thought conversation with god message was that love is unconditional but don’t worry i don’t need your friendship or God’s friendship.
          Just tell God to send me that times machine I’ve chosen so I can experience life in a new way.

        • A true friend

          “A true friend to who”
          He is already rich and he being a president could even be a conflict of interest. He didn’t even built his riches on his own efforts since he was born in a privileged family He wants to deport mexicans but is okay marring foreign top models. Twice! Boy I haven’t even had a girlfriend and im 25. Is this really what Americans what to represent them.
          ” If Ivanka weren’t my daughter, I’d be dating her”
          -Trump
          dot youtube dot com/watch?v=diMp241gAcw
          I bet if my statement “I can’t wait for everything to blown up in their face.” would come out of his Trump own mouth if Hillary had won supporters would be like. That’s the firend I want!!
          “You don’t sound like a friend I would want.”
          I thought conversation with god message was that love is unconditional but don’t worry i don’t need your friendship or God’s friendship.
          Just tell God to send me that time machine I’ve chosen so I can experience life in a new way.

        • A true friend

          ” If Ivanka weren’t my daughter, I’d be dating her”
          -Trump
          So it’s alright for Trump to make outrages comments but it isn’t okay for somebody else. Nice double edge sword you got there.

          • Patrick Gannon

            No, it’s really not OK for Trump, and it’s not OK for somebody else. Didn’t your mom teach you that two wrongs don’t make a right? Anything that blows up will be in all our faces, since we all live here and we’re all interconnected – even if not through consciousness or some god-thing as Neale proposes. As a side note, Trump said a lot of things far more disturbing than the quote you posted. So what. He said his daughter was beautiful and sexy and that if she wasn’t his daughter he’d be attracted to her. I don’t see anything in that to deserve moral outrage. Now stating that because you are a star you are entitled to grab women when and where you want – that deserves moral outrage. Taking it a step further, we cannot forget that no matter how outrageous, we have a first amendment right to say what we will and that’s a good thing. It makes putting up with crap from Trump acceptable. It’s also acceptable for you to wish harm on others, including your fellow Americans – but if that’s who you really are, why do you hang out on a spiritual site that is supposed to be all about ONEness?

            Besides, I don’t think you can plan on it blowing up in anyone’s face. Put your anger to use. I think we have to stay actively engaged and resist bullying with greater intensity given that some number of folks will take this election as a ticket to exercise their bigotry. We can’t just wait for it to blow up, or it may become the status quo and we turn to a nation of sexist, racist, homophobic religious nuts. At the same time, we can’t wish ill on our fellow Americans. We have to seek middle ground of compromise and cooperation through education and communication – no gods required.

  • Jethro

    Never been much for politics, no matter who made it into office there has been gifts and bad consequences. We don’t have to be happy about it, but anger has rarely ever been of great service. Well physiologically speaking, anger makes us move, but few understand anger on that level. Rage over the president destroys cars, other property and people’s lives. Still feel blessed that I can make a statement here without being executed by my government for poor spiritual beliefs.

    • mewabe

      It is a sad reflection on the nature of government when the people come to think that the only option they have left is to go in the street and break things and yell, because realizing that they are no longer represented by such a corrupt government, and have been made to be powerless.
      The rage of the American population is not so much about the election as it is about realizing that the government no longer works for them but for the elite, corporations, industry, the military and Wall street.

      • Patrick Gannon

        I’m normally on your wavelength, Mewabe, but not this time. These people (many of them young) who are out breaking things up are giving power to Trump’s “Law and Order” message, and giving him an excuse to clamp down hard if this nonsense is still going on when he takes over. It’s dumb.

        According to ‘civicyouth’ “As of this writing (noon on November 9, 2016), an estimated 23.7 million young voters participated in the 2016 presidential election, which is 50% of citizens aged 18-29 in the United States. We estimate that 13 million youth voted for Secretary Clinton and almost 9 million youth voted for Donald Trump. An additional 2 million young people either voted for third-party candidates or chose not to vote for any of the Presidential candidates on the ballot.”

        Given that half of eligible youth voters did not bother to vote, I’m willing to bet that a high percentage of those out protesting did not vote. In any event the youth did not vote with a unified voice. There’s no sense in being mad at Trump; be mad at the DNC who insisted on Hillary’s coronation, when they had a candidate who probably would have beaten Trump.

        Next, the statement about the “undemocratic electoral college” must be addressed. It’s not undemocratic – in fact it tries to keep the process democratic by ensuring that the candidates have to win over a large number of states, rather than just a couple of them with the largest population. If the electoral vote is replaced by a popular vote, the only states that will get any attention whatsoever are those with large populations. I support the 12th Amendment to the Constitution. I don’t want a popular vote – I want everyone to be represented, not just a couple large states.

        Not to speak for Jethro, but if I had to guess, he’s expressing his thanks that he lives in America rather than Iran or Saudi Arabia where he can be killed for having the “wrong” beliefs. Try “reminding” those Islamic governments that they are the humble servant! America has a long, long way to go before we degrade to that level of depravity. (Well, let’s see what Pence does. I suspect he’d be happy to stone gays to death).

        • mewabe

          As I previously wrote, I agree that taking it to the streets is not the way. A massive general strike paralyzing the nation until the government listens would be more effective, without breaking any law or using violence. But for this to happen, the people would have to take leadership into their own hands…unfortunately, most Americans are conditioned to comply and follow their leaders, not to lead.

          As far as the electoral college, why should we care if the states are represented equally? What matters in my view are the people, not the states. The people are voting, not the states. As far as getting attention and representation, no one is but the elite, the military-industrial-corporate-banking complex, Wall street. The rest of us get ridiculous promises and bad puppet theatre.

          I wouldn’t have made it past the age of 15 in Saudi Arabia. But then again it is better to die fighting for freedom than live in slavery. The way I see it life is about quality, not the quantity of years.

          • Patrick Gannon

            “As far as the electoral college, why should we care if the states are represented equally in the election? What matters in my view are the people, not the states.”

            But that’s the very point of the electoral college. If you are a person living in Montana or the Dakotas for example, and the election is based on the popular vote, do you think the candidates are going to waste a minute of their time visiting N. Dakota, or caring in the least about those people, their problems, their needs? Without the electoral college, that’s what will happen, because the votes of those people will not matter in the least, to the final outcome. California, Florida, Texas, Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania – those and a few others will be the only states to get visits from candidates, because those are the ones whose popular vote will decide the outcome. However if a state itself has to be won by electoral votes – a representative system rather than a democratic system – which is what our government is based on in order to avoid the tyranny of the majority – then the candidates will have to care about every single state, or at least a lot more of them, in order to accumulate the votes they need.

            I’m not sure i see how a paralyzing strike would be of value. Everyone would lose. People would lose wages, businesses would lose revenue, government would lose taxes, the streets would fill with trash, and a guy like Trump would feel justified in using harsh “law and order” methods to get things moving again. We have a mechanism to change things – and that’s to vote. We voted. We decided that we’ve had a bit too much multiculturalism and that the white, racist, sexist portion of our country, which unfortunately is larger than we all thought, wants a turn at bat, and they voted it for themselves. The rest of us will be fielding their hits for a few years, but that’s how progress works – two steps forward, one step back.

            Obama may be partly to blame for the outcome with his executive actions on LGBTs and bathrooms, for example. He was moving too fast for rednecks, and it’s being forced on us instead of letting us acclimate to it as we are doing with gay marriage. He shouldn’t have pushed so hard until the greater population was ready for it, but Obama is no more in touch with the average American than Hillary Clinton, or they’d have seen what was happening. Trump works construction – perhaps because of the workers in this profession, he had deeper insight into the American psyche at this time and did a masterful job of tapping into it. We don’t have to like it, but we have to admit it exists and figure out how to change it… peacefully. Sure a lot of Trump voters would love to put David Duke and the KKK in charge, but I think most people just felt like they were being ignored. They lost their jobs, they have limited education, they see the recovery going better for others than for themselves, and they see nothing in the news about themselves, but only issues concerning women, minorities, sexual preferences, an overturning of what has been their way of life, and so on. They felt left out, and their frustration is understandable. Many of these are good people, and now that they have some representation, perhaps they will ease off a bit.

            I don’t know about paralyzing strikes, but a rapid, firm confrontational response to any bullying, discrimination, bigotry, etc. is the best thing the average citizen can do till we get past this, I think. The good news out of the election is that Clinton did win the popular vote, and that tells us that there are enough people to stand up to the bullies on an equal footing.

          • mewabe

            I understand you points, but I have a different perspective. Perhaps I am a little more cynical than you are. I do not believe that our candidates actually care about the people…except a few such as Bernie or Jill. Their speeches and debates are superficial, fake and are insulting to our intelligence. The candidates are very condescending, counting on the ignorance of the public and on the cowardice and corruption of the mainstream media, so that real issues are not covered, and if they are brushed upon, it is not in any truthful and meaningful way.

            As a perfect example, Amy Goodman of Democracy Now, a real and courageous journalist, one of the few left in America, once asked Bill Clinton a few real and pertinent questions. She was polite and friendly, but she did not cower down to him. He chastised her for being “hostile” and “disrespectful” for daring asking real rather than softball and pre agreed upon questions! While he lost his temper, she kept her smile and composure, as the professional she is.
            This is what we are dealing with, the unbelievable arrogance and corruption of power. It permeates all of the government and institutions, that now act as though they are the masters and we are the servants.

            Presidential candidates visiting all the states and making empty speeches and posing for pictures with babies account to absolutely nothing, except swaying the naive and uniformed populace to respond emotionally rather than rationally and to believe in their rhetorics and fake promises and vote for them. It benefits the candidates, not the people.

            The sates are represented by Senators and Congressmen, at least in theory.

            I would not advocate a strike to protest an election, because all elections are essentially nothing more than a change of the guard. The king is still in the palace. A general strike, whereby the people help and support each others as strikers did in the past, would however work to demand an overall of government, a return to a government of the people, by the people, for the people, and an end to the oligarchy.

            Voting will never get us there. Even if Bernie had been elected, he would have been paralyzed by the special interests that today run our nation. He couldn’t have done anything, or very little. I am sure you have heard of the military-industrial complex. This elite only allows for superficial social change (such as LGTB’s and bathrooms or abortion). Politicians are allowed to move on these issues either way according to ideology, but not ever publicly discuss the fact that or the reasons why the US is currently bombing 7 nations, why 10 million people are currently starving in America, or why we have had the largest redistribution of wealth to benefit the elite in human history, as examples of pertinent topics.

          • Stephen mills

            This Cultural model we have is survival of the fittest and the more possessions and wealth you have the more deserving of power you become.
            So we deserve what we get….me thinks. Rich individuals and powerful interest groups only interested in their lot in keeping the wealth and resources that belongs to all of us. This greed that is on steroids now sucks up most of the new wealth created .

            Here is a statistic ; Globally the incomes of the top 1% have increased 60% in twenty years .The growth in income for the top 0.01% has been even greater .The crises of 2007-200 onwards made matters worse .The top 100 billionaires added $240 billion to their wealth in 2012 – enough to end world poverty four times over .

            Why would someone want more and more when they have so much already. This greed will be the end of all of us as someone always has to have less and less .
            We have a complete systems failure of our culture and only a massive consciousness shift can change this .Humanity is losing it ….giving away its own power to survive under a few people (Corporations) who’s only purpose is to own and squander the worlds wealth that rightly belongs to life and all the people on this planet and to those responsible to use it wisely for future generations .

            Things are going to get very ugly !

          • mewabe

            Very well said Stephen, I couldn’t agree more!

          • Patrick Gannon

            OK, that was quite a whine, but what do we do about it if voting isn’t the answer. I’ll still take our system over many others. I forget who it was that said democracy is a horrible system, but it’s ten times better than anything else.

            It can be argued that the best thing we could do for the earth is to remove about 4 billion people. Do we need a good nuclear war, or asteroid strike or global pandemic to set our clocks back so we can go live in tents again? I like camping, but in time I would really miss indoor plumbing!

          • Patrick Gannon

            Just read that in the city closest to me where protesters shut down the freeway, 4 out of 12 people arrested did not vote. I have no sympathy for them.

          • mewabe

            Patrick, here is more whining:

            “A Republican Washington state senator who supported Donald Trump is proposing a bill that would slap an “economic terrorism” label on protest activities already prohibited by law and dramatically intensify their penalties.
            Those activities earning a “terrorism” label go way beyond the kind of violence you might expect.

            The proposed bill would allow police to charge protesters who “block transportation and commerce, cause property damage, threaten jobs and put public safety at risk” with a class C felony.
            Blocking traffic is a tactic often used to bring attention to protests. Currently, protesters who are arrested are charged with a misdemeanor and released, but a felony charge would bring significant fines and jail or probation. It can also result in at least temporary loss of voting rights and limit rights of association.

            Terms like “threaten jobs and put public safety at risk” provide for an extremely wide interpretation. If protesters march past a store, are they “blocking commerce”? Is marching in any street potentially putting public safety at risk?”

            From Mark Sumner, at the Daily Kos 11/17/16

            Is America looking more like a dictatorship by the day, and would it if some people had their way? This is getting truly unhealthy, don’t you think?

          • Patrick Gannon

            Well first we need to take a deep breath because politicians propose legislation that never comes into being all the time – just to make a political statement to their constituency, which for the RNC largely consists of white racists right now, as best I can tell. Getting such legislation passed is another thing. Long live the filibuster! However, I do favor consequences for blocking traffic and destroying public property.

            No, walking past one’s store is not blocking commerce unless the protesters specifically do that by force, in which case they should be prosecuted.

            Unfortunately it’s looking like both sides want to see blood in the streets and if we don’t get our act together, we may indeed get what we’re asking for. I don’t care what side it is – if you’re violent or doing something like blocking traffic on an interstate freeway, then you should be arrested and charged with disorderly conduct and prosecuted.

          • mewabe

            Take a deep breath? Are you joking? Why do you think this nutcase proposed this legislation? He knew he had no chance to pass it in Washington state, which is a blue state. What this is, is a signal to other Republicans, now that Trump will be in charge, to propose the same legislation in red states, which will be a sure way to shut down any kind of opposition to their corporate agenda. You basically call your opposition “terrorists” and get rid of them. That’s the extreme right wing agenda. Under this legislation, the DAPL protestors who impede the progress of the pipeline in North Dakota and hurt the company economically are all terrorists. Wait and see North Dakota representatives propose the same legislation!

            And with spineless Democrats in government who also support the absolute corporate takeover of this nation although they are more discreet about it, and a rightwing supreme court, who do you think will stand against such legislation?

            Prepare yourself for extremely quick change, and not for the better!

          • Patrick Gannon

            You are speaking to someone who lived through Richard Nixon and GW Bush. It’s not the end of the world. In fact, it could spark the kind of social revolution that was the 60’s and early 70’s in response to widespread racism, sexism and the war in Vietnam. Remember, even though Trump won the electoral college, more people voted for Clinton, so the majority of the country is not racist, sexist and homophobic – though certainly many are. The numbers are on the right side. The question is whether peaceful activism can turn the tide. The generation where everyone got a trophy for showing up, may not have what it takes to do what we did. I was on the tail end – but we ended a war, we addressed racism and poverty, and we improved women’s rights.

          • mewabe

            “The late 1960s became increasingly radical as the activists felt their demands were ignored. Peaceful demonstrations turned violent. When the police arrived to arrest protesters, the crowds often retaliated. Students occupied buildings across college campuses forcing many schools to cancel classes. Roads were blocked and ROTC buildings were burned. Doves clashed with police and the National Guard in August 1968, when antiwar demonstrators flocked to the Democratic National Convention in Chicago to prevent the nomination of a pro-war candidate.”
            US History website

            Where did you get the idea that antiwar protests in the late 60’s were non violent?

          • Patrick Gannon

            I never said they were non-violent. It is my opinion, however, that the peaceful demonstrations were far more effective. When people are tearing things down, your average American is going to want some “law and order,” but when you are sitting still and taking mace and being hauled off in handcuffs on camera, there’s a powerful image that does something very different inside of us.

            Watching violent protesters throwing bottles at police is very different from watching a group of people peacefully sitting on the ground as they are attacked. How you go about achieving your goals, matters. Peaceful civil disobedience in a civilized republican democracy is, I think, the best way to achieve valuable goals.

            I’m not in any way suggesting that there aren’t causes worth fighting for, but peaceful demonstration in our society will, I think, produce the best results in the long term. Take some of the BLM protests, for example – particularly the violent ones. What will average people remember? They will remember that black people are violent and should be feared, and we all know where fear leads.

            The real point of my post though, was that we’ve been through this before, and we’ll be through it again if we don’t destroy ourselves. We had the opportunity to do so with nuclear war when I was growing up, and the number of ways we can wipe ourselves out has only increased since then – but somehow we’ve continued to move forward, improving the lives of billions of people – thanks mainly to science, I might add.

            My favorite book in the bible is Ecclesiastes. There is a time to protest and there is a time to “be.” I think this might be the latter – at least for a while till we calm down and remember that it could always be a lot worse. Thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of our kids aren’t dying right now, and it would be nice if we could keep it that way.

          • mewabe

            You are so right Patrick…after all, governments have a monopoly on terror, oppression, brutality and claim the exclusive right to kill. People should never try to compete with that.

            People blocking a highway (yes it is kind of stupid and ineffective) should be prosecuted according to you…but the oil police in North Dakota shooting peaceful protestors in the head with ribber bullets, tear gassing them, using water cannon against them at night in freezing weather (23 degrees-one person has the skin ripped off his hand, most, over 400, suffered from serious hypothermia), none of this barbarism seems to arouse any anger in you, does it?

            That’s okay, we must all take sides, at some point. You are on the side of the so-called authorities. As you may have guessed, I am not when the authorities abuse their power, which is almost all the time.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Wow – now you sound like some of the others here who go off on personal attacks when their cherished beliefs are challenged, and like them you do so without knowing anything at all about me. How disappointing.

            It’s hilarious that you would put me on the side of the “so-called authorities.” I’m the guy who challenges the established authority. I voted against the two-party system by voting for a third party. I challenge “authority” such as Neale in this forum, and I challenge the “authority” of Yahweh, Jesus, Allah and every other imaginary, invisible god that lives in the sky along with the organizations like the Vatican or other denominations that promote them, in other forums, local newspaper media, and in social media. I am usually the contrarian in the room – the one who always challenges authority and the prevailing view. I learned how to educate myself, thanks to my dad, by taking the opposite of the prevailing view and challenging it. If you want to learn fast – that’s the best way there is, as the prevailing view will be happy to show you how wrong you are – if they can. I spend way too much of my day challenging authority for you or anyone else to call me Goliath! I have my own company because I don’t always deal well with “authority.”

            You are mistaken in your characterization, and I think my words here over the last few years make that pretty clear. The authority I last challenged was that of a small group of disgruntled young people, many of whom didn’t even vote, out blocking traffic, asserting their own authority over fellow citizens, endangering lives, blocking commerce, and inconveniencing people trying to get home to their families, just because their candidate didn’t win. Some of them showed up to vote, but they didn’t get the trophy so they blocked the roads to protest – or did even worse in some other cities. Yes – I challenge the authority of undisciplined rabble when its cause is a crybaby rant. Next time, vote. Clinton took my state. If the youngsters had gotten out in force during the primaries, perhaps Sanders might have won, but they stayed home and were stuck with a really poor candidate, and now they want to complain about it. Spare me your anguish, and get off the highway children. I voted. I guess that makes me Goliath!

            I have not said a word about the incident in N. Dakota, but I have read up on it, and as I said in another post, there are always two sides to a story. I can see points for both sides, and the best way forward is to try and do so peacefully. With regards to the latest incident, the “oil police” as you call them, insist that they were attacked first, bottles thrown, and that the protesters (some armed) rushed the bridge. I wasn’t there. I don’t know. I’m not jumping to conclusions without more data. I’ve seen stories submitted to FB regarding this incident that are completely fabricated, so my skepticism meter is on full alert.

            I tend to be influenced by peaceful protests such as what King and Gandhi promoted. I don’t see any leadership like that right now.

          • mewabe

            Your definition of authority is different than mine…I think you mean legitimacy. You challenge the legitimacy of certain groups or individuals. I do as well…

            But by authority I mostly mean control and power. I challenge those who are in control, the elite, government and other institutions such as all religions, and even some of the scientific establishment, such as the practice of torturing animals in laboratories for some useless research to validate grant money (some tests and researches are useful, others are not).

            The people who protest in the streets do so precisely because they feel powerless, and kind of hopeless. They see no other recourse, and no longer believe in a rigged system. That they might want to start breaking stuff is something I fully understand, and do not condemn, although I would not do it myself, because I haven’t reached this state of powerlessness, this sense of futility and desperation.

            Challenging religion is not really a great accomplishment…I did it when I was 12 years old (I was not raised religious), and never fell for the new age god either. Instead I turned to Zen, Taoism and Krishnamurti’s writings very early (14 years old), which are about philosophy, not religion.

            Using a systematic approach, such as being a contrarian regardless of what is presented, is not the best approach, precisely because it is systematic. Although challenging accepted ideas is crucial, and I tend to do this a lot, debating is not always the best way of communicating. This comment, by the way, is from a lone wolf contrarian, one that goes north when the multitudes are going south, so I understand your personality more than you know!

            As far as North Dakota, you are obviously free to think what you want…I was there for a few days, I saw it with my own eyes. The people who are the loudest in these protests, yelling “shame” when someone gets arrested, “we have no weapons” etc, are the non-Indians. My perception was that it might have been a mistake to allow non-Indians to join…Native Americans there are soft spoken, prayerful and very disciplined about non-violence. They are not even displaying or showing anger…while the non-Indians are occasionally angry. But I saw no violence on their part. What the police calls “rioting” is simple a refusal to disperse when ordered to do so, even though this refusal is peaceful, non-violent.

            There is a war that is waged with words out there…to mentally condition people to submit completely to authority, from the police calling non-compliance “rioting”, to large businesses officially calling employees who openly criticize the company or management “terrorists” (I am not making this up, I wish I were).

            You have to also understand that the police has been paid, by the corporation, millions of dollars to protect the pipeline, so that makes it, for all intents and purposes, the oil police. You should, as well, look at the issues of illegality on the part of the pipeline corporation as presented by Robert Kennedy junior. The tribal chairman will definitively pursue the legal route, since the government does not enforce its own laws when it comes to industry and other big players (no big surprise here, corruption is endemic).

            They have many elders to lead them, one is the keeper of the sacred pipe and very respected, but he is not like King or Gandhi, he is purely spiritual, not political. If you are interested check out what he says in videos about the DAPL, his name is Arvol Looking Horse. Also check what the chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe says…another traditional, rational, soft spoken individual (Native Americans are traditionally very soft spoken, not aggressive and loud like Americans, but unlike most Americans, they say what they mean and mean what they say).

            Lastly, you mention Bernie Sanders. Did you see his latest speech about the pipeline? “This pipeline has to be stopped by any means!” Couldn’t agree more, although I hope he did not mean violence.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Well I always turn to definitions: Authority:

            1.the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience.

            2.a person or organization having power or control in a particular, typically political or administrative, sphere.

            Given this definition of authority, I stand by my original assertion. I do not automatically take the side of the “authority” but I will confess to having an inclination for the middle ground on most social issues, the land of compromise and cooperation. So much more could be accomplished if we stopped thinking that there must always be a winner and a loser.

            Speaking of Bernie, when I see the youngsters protesting against Trump’s win, I can’t help but wonder how many of them voted in the Primaries for either Clinton or Sanders. The percentage is very, very low – but even though they didn’t participate, they seem to feel entitled to protest because the rest of America didn’t pick up the slack for them. I vote in Primaries. I voted for Bernie. I’ll bet that very few of the Trump protesters voted in the Primary for anyone. Heck, less than 29% of registered voters participated in the primaries, and then they complain about the hand they were dealt. Screw them. They have no right to complain.

          • mewabe

            Patrick, you are using 2 very common and predictable arguments that mainstream Americans always use when their society or culture is criticized: “well, it’s not perfect, but it’s still the best system in the world” (untrue)…and “you want to go back to live in caves?”

            We don’t have to go back in time but move towards a sustainable future (see for example Stephen info on hemp partly replacing oil), and neither do we have to put up with near total corruption because other populations are worse off than we are in China, North Korea, Iran or Saudi Arabia. African slaves could have, with this mentality, accepted their fate by saying “Well at least they don’t kill us right away, we should be happy and grateful working for our masters”.

            Do you actually believe that stating facts is whining?

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’m good with whining as long as the whiner offers up solutions. One of the best ways to be an activist is to get involved in your local government and most of all VOTE. If you didn’t vote, you don’t get to complain (not directed to you personally as I have no idea whether you voted).

            I’m not making excuses for America. I know we aren’t perfect and that there are other countries ahead of us in all manner of things such as education, quality of life, child care, health care, etc. I’m guessing they got a lot of those things through a democratic process, because I don’t recall reading about a lot of protests in Scandinavian countries, for example, that are ahead of us in a number of these criteria.

            Activism includes signing letters and petitions (as I do), regarding things like Hemp. I’m on a mailing list of people trying to get our state to permit that it be grown, and have contacted my Congressman regarding my support. A couple of our country’s founders lived within 45 minutes of me and they grew hemp. What it will come down to is a vote. We have a process. Blocking traffic on I-95 because you didn’t get your whiny butt out to vote and don’t like the results you helped put in place by failing to do so, is not going to win any sympathy from those of us who are activists. Peaceful activists.

            I’m a child of the 60s and 70’s. Trust me you aren’t the first generation to think it was screwed by its parents generation and the establishment.

          • mewabe

            You and I differ in our viewpoints. I do not think voting will make any difference until the system is changed from the ground up, as it is totally corrupt and in the grip of 2 political parties that are both serving the military-indutrial-corporate-banking complex equally.

            Most Democrats in America today, politicians and voters, are essentially center-right, like Obama and Clinton, while Republicans are way off the chart in their extreme rightwing ideology. Those few who dare to be kind of progressive, like Bernie Sanders or Jill Stein, are viciously attacked and ridiculed by the establishment and the media, as are their supporters.

            I am actually seriously considering leaving this country…it’s really not worth fighting for. Let the corporations rape the land, pollute and destroy everything, let the government take all your rights away. Americans are not concerned, the latest sitcom or celebrity scandal is more important, and as long as they can have a job and cheap made-in-China junk, they are satisfied. They can have it!

          • Patrick Gannon

            Mewabe, you go on and on about activism, but now you say you’re going to tuck tail and run? The US is not worth fighting for? OK then. Don’t let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. You apparently aren’t who I thought you were. I’m going to assume this is just a rant and you’ll get over it, but if you decide to leave, let us know what country wants Americans who don’t have the backbone to work to improve their own country in a peaceful way.

          • mewabe

            Really sorry to disappoint you Patrick! I am not sure who you thought I was, but I am not one to keep banging my head against a brick wall…sometimes you have to realize that you can’t win.

            I was however ranting…suffering from Post Trump Stress Disorder, as are many others.

            I am not here to change humanity…it will keep doing what it wants or must, probably all the way to self-destruction and extinction. But I will keep trying to protect those who do not have a voice to the best of my ability…animals, and all of nature. Nature is my world…the human world is not, because it lives in opposition to nature.

            I can fight to protect the natural world from anywhere on the planet, I do not need to live in the belly of the beast.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Much as environmentalists deny it, homo sapiens is part of nature. We may be a scourge at the moment, a destructive force, just like an overabundance of rabbits or deer or any other animal that is not kept in balance by the forces of nature, and therefore destroys its own environment leading to extinction or restart. We’re all part of nature. It’s inescapable and seems short sighted to think otherwise, as it seems many idealistic tree huggers do.

            Keep in mind that in some places where the indigenous population is the majority, as in some near arctic areas, the natives want drilling and mining and things that will bring them employment, and they are being denied this by governments. There is always more than one side to a story.

            You say nature is your world, but what does that mean? You aren’t out in nature, you are communicating and participating with the contemporary human world right here. How much time do you spend in “nature” and how do you define that?

            I don’t know how many western human beings have any idea of how hard and cruel and heartless nature can be. Unless you’ve sat in a tree or crouched on the ground for hours and hours on end, like any other predatory animal, dealing with freezing cold, or blazing heat, or ticks and mosquitoes and snakes and poison ivy, and so forth, what do you really know about nature? Trying to outwit animals that have evolved various amazing advantages such as a turkey’s vision or a deer’s sense of smell, provides realization that our best (or worst, depending on your view), evolutionary advantage is our brain.

            The (ethical) human hunter’s goal is a short quick death by arrow or bullet. This death for a majestic animal might be considered a gift compared with being eaten alive as many animals in nature experience. Without participating in real nature, does one really know nature? Can we know nature without taking part in it by killing, dressing and eating our prey; getting our hands bloody and our bones and muscles aching as we drag the product of our difficult hunt out of the woods till we are almost crying with exhaustion? In many places, as one drags the kill out of the bush, one becomes the prey to predators looking to relieve the hunter of the prize, or to become prey himself. That is true nature. It isn’t always pretty.

            I’m not sure that bird watching, tree hugger type people who don’t actually become part of nature by participating in how it really works – particularly with more primitive methods like bow hunting, can really claim to know what nature is all about. Can one claim to know nature until spending at least a little time as prey, and not just as predator or simple observer? In spite of the countless hours I have spent in nature (including diving in oceans where I did have reason to think of myself as prey) I know that I am but a neophyte when it comes to “knowing nature.” However I do what I can to help the nature around me. I build brush piles and seed the powerline with flowers for insects and birds, and legumes for deer and turkey. My small pond provides habitat and food (frogs, fish, salamanders, etc. for local wildlife like herons and raccoons. I’m not about to run away from America when there is so much that I can do here. Besides, my job is with the global community, and America is still a pretty good place to live by comparison with other places where population is totally out of control.

            I’m certainly not challenging your love for nature, but there’s a lot of idealism going on here. Nature is the struggle for life, and we’re part of that, whether we like it or not. The big difference is that we know we’re going to die, and that leads us to places like this to ponder the larger questions that don’t fret our furry, fluffy, feathery friends in the woods.

            You said, “sometimes you have to realize that you can’t win.” Well, the truth is none of us win. We are all going to die, and that’s probably the end of it for us aside from whatever memories and good that we leave behind. Does going back to nature imply a desire to hide away from that unpleasant truth of our evolution? The fact that we know we’re going to die?

          • mewabe

            Patrick, I do not actually know on which side of the fence you stand, but your denigration of environmentalists, of “tree huggers”, of the BLM movement, of “undisciplined rabble” protestors seems to put you on the side of conservatism (nor necessarily Republican, a lot of Democrats are conservative in their own way).

            That’s okay and you absolutely have the right to your beliefs and opinions, but be honest about it and own it. You know where I stand, I don’t hide it, I make it very clear. Why not do the same?

            As far as my relationship with the natural world, you make many assumptions which are false. You also come from a different place than I do, mentally. You have chosen to be a materialist, not seeing past what your eyes can see. That’s okay too, it’s just a different choice. I am not saying that my choice is better, but it is very different. I deal with energy rather than pure matter. To me nature is a living world, and civilization a dead world (full of human energy, but this energy is weak and chaotic).

            Glad to know you do what you can for your natural environment! This alone makes you a good person in my eyes…

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’m sorry you took my comments as “denigration” of tree-huggers, and in re-reading it, I can see how you might feel that way. I was trying to show that there’s a sense of idealism from many ‘nature’ people that does not accurately reflect reality. Nature is amoral. It can be very beautiful and it can be very cruel. I can’t help but question those who call themselves nature people who don’t understand and haven’t experienced a wider spectrum of that which we call nature. I do not know your experiences with nature, and if I implied that I did, I didn’t mean to do so. I was speaking in more general terms.

            It seems to me that you are averse to a middle road, where one is neither conservative nor liberal, but who looks instead to cooperation, compromise, and mutual benefit on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes I’m on one side, sometimes the other. I see no need to be labeled as I try to look at every situation as an agnostic – one who seeks knowledge. That’s why I haven’t taken a strong stand on the N. Dakota thing – I lack knowledge, and the last thing I trust is social media to give it to me accurately. I know better than that. From what I’ve read, there are two sides to this story. Let’s face it; if you really and truly want to put an end to pipelines, you have to figure out a way to convince your fellow Americans to stop burning carbon. You have to end the demand. It’s just like the drug war. You can try as hard as you like to shut it off, but as long as there is a demand, it will flow from somewhere. It seems to me that this isn’t so much about whether the oil should flow as it is a NIMBY (not in my back yard) issue, or where it should flow. To be successful, the approach has to switch from NIMBY after NIMBY to something greater.

            I really have no response to the new-agey bit about dealing with energy. We live in a physical matter reality. Whether there is a non-physical matter reality or not is unknown and certainly unproven, so until such time as that happens, I’m going to abide by the space/time laws of this universe we live in – also we have no choice in the matter!

            What I will say in parting, is that humans are part of nature. We evolved on this planet just like everything else. To speak of humans as being somehow separate from nature makes no sense. We have immense power by comparison with most other organisms on this planet, but we all come from the exact same “stuff.” And to it, we shall all return.

            Does anything we do, really matter? Who knows. We’re pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I like the discussion on this page from time to time when people advocate that we should just “be.” There is a time to protest and a time to “be.” Given recent events, I’m trying to focus more on the second option.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            mewabe, my friend,

            I think you make some excellent points about how our political, financial, law enforcement and government systems in America currently work, as well as the military-industrial-oil-banking oligarchy. It can feel insurmountable with so many decks stacked against individuals, most of whom are uneducated and misinformed about the most important issues of our times: the environment so that we don’t cause our own extinction; our loss of personal freedoms (especially under such laws as the “patriot act” and the right to peacefully protest under proposed law that would constitute such protests a felony); and even our voice (exampled by the candidate with the most American votes losing the election).

            I’ve signed more petitions and researched more news stories since the Republicans chose their nominee for president than I have in other election years. It’s felt necessary to do so both due to the amount of misinformation being passed off as legitimate news on both sides and the potential consequences of electing someone whose narcissism and questionable emotional stability could truly end life as we know it (not to mention the many examples and accusations of sexual assault, fraud and ties to organized crime). I’ve also donated more (though meager by comparison with what was requested) to specific movements such as the water protectors and the repeal of Citizens United, as well as supporting independent news such as Mother Jones, than I have in years.

            There are movements out there worth noting. One of the prominent members of the Anti-Defamation League (whose name I can’t immediately recall) has said that if there is a registry of American citizens who are Muslim, he will register in support of fellow Americans even though he’s not a Muslim. I think that’s an excellent idea and would love to see the system either overloaded or made useless by having huge numbers of people following suit. There are legal actions that will probably prove futile to defeat state laws criminalizing traditional peaceful protests, but having the pressure of the spotlight and public opinion has swayed many a local politician. And I not only wear a safety pin but promote all these ideas on social media where I’ve gained more followers and friends than I’ve lost by speaking out.

            I didn’t get the chance to vote as my ID had an old address and, by the time a run of personal challenges and crises settled down, it was too late to be able to jump through all the necessary hoops in time to register. However, I believe even nonvoters can make a difference. Before I was old enough to vote, I’d already worked as a volunteer for two political campaigns because they stood for civil rights and were anti-establishment (in ways that didn’t breed fear and rage like the president-elect has done and continues to do). I may not have much money, but I can choose where to spend it, supporting local growers, craftspeople and artists rather than chain stores and corporations like Nestlé (whose CEO says water isn’t a basic right and should be privatized).

            Even drops of water can change the shape of a stone when applied over time. We’re running out of time so we must gather into trickles and creeks and streams and rivers based on commonalities rather than differences to speed up the process. I’m not familiar enough with the specific laws to explain them, but even the oligarchy recognizes the danger and tries to dam us up by criminalizing, publicly condemning or spreading misinformation about peaceful protestors, those exercising freedom of speech and those who promote unifying against the establishment. It’s not an easy road, but to paraphrase an oft-heard quote I haven’t found the attribution for (it sounds JFK to me but could well be from a popular movie), nobody promised Citizenship would be (or should be) easy, and we’re all Planetary Citizens.

            Do I do all this perfectly? Of course not, but I put my intention and energy into it regardless. Do I get distracted by personal challenges? Sure I do because life changes all the time, but I return to activism in between putting out personal fires. Do I sometimes fear that there will be repercussions? Absolutely, but I have found that courage is about acknowledging fear and taking action anyway. Do I get tired of being an activist? Yep to that one, too. I’d rather sit back and enjoy life, but I can’t while even the least of us fall through the cracks or are targeted, and while my planet is in danger.

            Just my two cents. Or maybe a nickel’s worth. 😉

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

      • Jethro

        Patrick ended his post not speaking for me but had it pegged…. “Not to speak for Jethro, but if I had to guess, he’s expressing his thanks that he lives in America rather than Iran or Saudi Arabia where he can be killed for having the “wrong” beliefs. Try “reminding” those Islamic governments that they are the humble servant!”,….. 100% and many other places you can be killed, jailed, fined, tortured. If our government is serving the arrogant elite, corporations, industry, the military, and Wall Street then that is where the battle lies. I have no problem stating that the government is a puppet of the wrong hand.

        If it’s trump they’re angry about then why damage anything belonging to a Clinton supporter? They claim its trump, but have a “kill’em all and let God sort it out” attitude. I really think it’s just a reason to exercise their need for anarchy. I would say the same if Clinton had won and trump supporters acted like barbarians. People are using the march as an excuse. If it starts near my home, people will leave with lead poisoning, or lay there and rot, I’m done mowing for the winter. They can take their battle to the White House.

        Hope there has been positive movement for you and those fighting, concerning the pipeline. Best wishes to all of them!

        • mewabe

          I do agree that breaking things and causing chaos in the streets is not productive. However many social changes historically began in the street, when the people had a vision and were organized towards a goal.

          Simply venting anger is not the way, even when anger is valid. Since we live under a system that only grant governments and their institutions the right to use violence, the people must use non-violent means to achieve what they want. Our relationship to government is as that of a child to a parent…it is absurd, but widely accepted through early conditioning.

          I am rather detached from all of is, because I truly do not relate to what I call the “civilized” mindset…I do not relate to hierarchical systems, to patriarchies, to the obsessions with control, power and authority that permeate society, to the chains of command. I was born free and never lost this inner understanding of my own sovereignty as an individual (which has nothing to do with the sovereign movement).

          Whatever I write is simply an expression of this feeling of being a stranger in a strange world…I know that the “civilized” world will not change, it will simply trade one leader for another, one belief for another, one master for another. Hierarchy and dominant power are here to stay. Not my cup of tea…

          • Jethro

            There are many of us who are angry with the world. A stranger in a strange place says it perfectly. I am not a great mind of our world and I can see the land changing around me, I can see the air that was once not visible, the air now hides the trees and the hills that use to seem feet away but were really miles away. It is mid November and I remember wearing two pair of coveralls to stay warm in -0′ weather while on the tractor… that was 1988. I’ve worn a light jacket twice a couple hours of a couple mornings

            Sheep need herders and there’s lots of sheep. I hate being in the herd! But as much as I hate to admit it, I complain about the oil companies but drive an expedition as a work truck. 50.00 a tank every two to four days. Plastics are my go to materials for plumbing. Humanity has landed us where we are. Ignorantly allowing oil to serve so many needs. We are now in a place where we cannot turn away from it. Oil has made many jobs, but has removed many as well. To stop using oil would kill many people. The easy life would go away as we transform back to a strong family structure to stay alive. We would need skills that have been forgotten to return. The economy would have to be reshaped, our lives would be reshaped. The world would have to replace the plants and animals that we used to provide heat and light. The changes would require more than I can understand in all my studies of it. We are too lazy to let go of oil. I say we because everyone of us follow the rules of oil like good little sheep, and we actually led ourselves here and called it good every step of the way.

            I feel good on horseback and would like to try a buckboard wagon for work. We grow a garden, I’m putting in a well with hand pump. I’ve purchased the tools needed to preserve vegetables and meat as if I can’t run to the grocery store in a moment. But I’ve also watched the food change over the years. Ice burg lettuce was green in the 70’s. I pay cash or barter for everything, no credit cards. I have wood burning stoves in both my house and garage. I tend to move against the rules. A stranger in a strange place? It’s ok.

            We must share our thoughts on anything we feel is worth fighting for or against. There may be someone who thinks they are alone in there thoughts and needs to hear what we (everyone) is saying. Aside from try to live the way I feel we should all live, I don’t know what else to do, but I have located others who believe as I do. I preach moving away from our lazy spoiled ways and teach it often as possible. A civilized mindset is one that cares deeply for other people, that has faded with the color and taste of the vegetables, and hits a road block with the color of another persons skin.

            Keep complaining! We have good reasons too! While your complaining though, think about all the good around you and be thankful. I don’t have to tell you that, I do have to remind myself though, often.

          • Stephen mills

            Here is secret the oil companies do not want anyone to know,anything made from the hydrocarbons in oil could just as easily be made from the carbohydrates in vegetable crops . Like HEMP .Henry Ford made a car by growing it from the soil more durable than steel .Hemp could replace so many non renewable resources that there is a huge lobby working against it this is how greed replaces common sense. 50 000 products and counting from one plant . Its here for a reason !

            Thanks for your post Jethro we must live simply so others can simply live .
            Create decentralised local economies … Mega Corporations and Globalization are obviously against these ideas but we take the power back and give it to the people .

          • I believe CwG book II makes similar favorable comments on hemp.

          • Stephen mills

            Hey yes that’s where I first read about Hemp and have researched it since , it’s an extrodinary plant .Providing us with so much,food,clothing,paper,plastics ,insulation,fuel,building materials and so much more .One could assume that it was placed here for a reason …

            Funnily enough I’am reading book 2 again at this time .So much information to create a spectacular tommorow .

          • I agree! Your statement “funnily enough” sounds european.

          • Stephen mills

            Yeah I live in Scotland we are using 2.5 planets worth of resources per person if everyone decided to live as we do .

            Great to be amongst the most wasteful decadent society’s ever in the history of mankind ….

          • Well, we do our part & influence others.

          • Stephen mills

            yep totally agree but zero debate about this on the main stream media .And that’s where most folks are numbed down. They can’t contemplate any new ideas or thoughts because of the system serving mammon .

          • My answer is visualize the change you desire to see regardless of opinion & appearance. Allow that to influence your next action step.

          • Jethro

            I have watched documentaries on hemp, USA claims there afraid someone will get high in spite of the low THC content. I had also forgotten about vegetable oils. There are lots of people who feel the way we do, like me their not sure how to do anything. I have ideas with few facts, please rant all you like! I enjoyed your post very much. Thank you.

          • Patrick Gannon

            We’ll get there. There is too much money to be made. A Hemp special interest group will get it through Congress in due course. We’re getting there, slow but sure. My state is actively studying the issue now and I send petitions and letters to my elected officials, and I think as more and more people do so, changes will come.

          • Jethro

            I’m hoping the United States can wake up soon! We’re the only country against hemp.

            So is that Kentucky lake in your photo? The first time I seen the picture I told my wife you were fishing Kentucky lake. I’m in southeast Missouri.

          • Patrick Gannon

            I live in central VA not far from where Thomas Jefferson and James Madison grew hemp. Where did you see the picture of the lake – on my Facebook page? I have a small pond on my property full of catfish, blue gills and bass, which I expect to help feed me for a while when (and if) the SHTF.

          • Jethro

            I was making a total guess based on pictures friends have shown me from the lake. Whoops! I missed it. Man I would love to have that pond too. Same reason. We plan to move when we get this house remodeled. My choice of property will include a pond, and space for animals, growth of food for us and the animals. 5 acres may be as large as I get but sounds like I need 40 to include a patch of trees.

          • mewabe

            Thanks Jethro for your comments and you effort at living a better life!
            Indeed we all must make lifestyle choices that are in sync with the earth, not against it…otherwise we are borrowing against the future generations, who will be the ones to pay the bill, and that’s coming sooner than anyone thinks according to scientists.
            Unfortunately there is an information war out there. Most people would make the right choices if they had the proper knowledge, but many are kept ignorant by the controlling elite. That’s one of the reasons Bernie Sanders did not get nominated, and Jill Stein did not have a chance. However the internet is an opportunity to spread such information very fast!
            People need to be inspired…facts are okay, but most people respond to feelings and emotions, which is something the elite understands and uses perfectly to control them almost completely.

            We need an inspiring voice for the earth and for all life…an eloquent individual who will touch people’s hearts and souls and remind them that they are part of nature, nature is part of them, and that at this time the earth needs love above all.

          • Jethro

            I wish I could be that inspiring voice alone, speaking good, true words, that could last as long as the mountains. I believe that the majority of our worlds people are wanting things to be simple again, but simple is hard work and that leap is a hard one to take. People feel trapped, they cannot see another way. Stephen mills talked about things that many people are not aware of and even the documentaries don’t tell us how to start, who is already fighting, where to go to become part of the battle. To save the earth at this time, it’s looking like we will have to polish the lenses on our high powered rifles and aim for the Windsor knot. It’s been said many times by the people I know, I’ll say it’s said with a chuckle. Nothing serious. But it is a sign that nobody knows what else to do. It’s good to know there are people getting started though.

          • Stephen mills

            If not you who if not now when ?

            Note of interest : If everyone on the planet lived like they do in America we would need 4.5 planets to sustain us in Australia its 3.5 and the UK is 2.5 … we have some work to do in the western world and its ..you must have your own copy of everything culture.
            Buckminster Fuller said ” the way to change the existing reality is create a new model and make the old one obsolete .”

          • Jethro

            Population density in USA, 35 per sq kilometer, Australia 3 per sq kilometer, United Kingdom 269 per sq kilometer…. looks like we should be looking to the United Kingdom for answers, while there not at all perfect. I don’t claim to know enough about any countries including my own to give an educated statement. I just thought I would compare, use to population. I strongly believe cars are the biggest problem. Beliefs are not facts in my case, I’m trying to learn though.

          • Stephen mills

            The UK has 99.9% of its population on 7.5%of the land .40 000 acres – around two-thirds of the land mass is owned by just 189 000 families.Its one of the most fuedal countries on Earth .Where I live in Scotland the worst concentration of land ownership in the world with 1,252 families owning 66% of the land .
            There is no answers here my friend at the moment .