What do you think?
MY THIRD ANSWER TO THE
21 QUESTIONS POSED HERE

Recently I posted a series of questions that I suggested it would be fascinating to ask every person we met for the rest of our life. I promised that I would answer those questions myself — even though most of the visitors to this site already know how I would answer them — just for the record.

Here are more of my answers to those questions.

What is the point of human life? Does it have a point? Is it simply, and nothing more than, an expression of a biological entity that begins in utero and ends at death? Is there life (that is, individual existence, consciousness and awareness of self) after death — and, for that matter, before birth? Is there such a thing as the “soul,” defined as a metaphysical individuality? If so, what is its function or purpose?

I think these questions drive to the heart of the human condition. That is, I believe we experience our condition as humans differently — perhaps radically differently — depending upon our answers to these questions.

In my own mind, I want to go further. I find myself wanting to say that I believe humanity’s complete and total dysfunction…its appalling self-destructive behaviors…are all the product of what I perceive to be nonbeneficial  or incomplete answers to these questions.

There is no question as to our dysfunction. There are those who like to point to the “progress” we have made as a species through the centuries and the millennia, but I’m sorry…I’m unimpressed.

As we read this today, one-quarter of the human species lives without toilets. Some 1.6 billion do not have electricity. Just under 1.7 billion have no access to clean water. And these are not simply inconveniences. Thousands die each day from preventable health issues, such as malaria, diarrhea and pneumonia.

Wait. It’s worse. Over 650 children will die on this planet in the next hour because of starvation. Not because of some exotic or unfamiliar disease for which we have not yet found a cure. Because of not getting enough food to eat. This, on a planet where we throw away more unfinished dinners in the restaurants of Paris, Los Angeles, and Madrid than it would take to feed all of those 650 children for a week.

All of this raises some interesting questions: How is it possible for 7 billion members of a single species to all want the same thing—survival, safety, security, peace, prosperity, opportunity, happiness, and love—and be unable to produce it, even after thousands of years of trying? Is it possible — just possible — that there is something we don’t fully understand about God and about Life, the understanding of which could change everything? Is it possible that there is something we don’t fully understand about ourselves and about who we are, the understanding of which would alter our lives forever for the better?

Now I know there are those who answer “no” to those last two questions. And I think this is part of our dysfunction. We refuse to believe that there might be some data “still out there” that could alter our entire perception of reality.

I am not among them. I am not willing to look at the world the way it is and “tsk-tsk”, or downplay, those statistics, pointing instead to whatever “progress” we have made, such as it is, in improving the human condition. We are still threatening each other with total obliteration. The only difference has been the lethality of our weapons. Whereas before it was sticks and stones, then rocks and arrows, then knives and bullets, now it is bombs that annihilate millions in ten seconds. Such has been humanity’s “progress” from its caveman days.

Well, I am not willing to look at that and call it “progress.” And I’m certainly not going to stare into the face of those stark global statistics and point instead to all the good that we have achieved. I am, instead, going to paraphrase George Bernard Shaw here: “The worst sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them. That’s the essence of inhumanity.”

So out of my refusal to be indifferent to the progress we haven’t made, let me offer my answer to the questions above. First, my reply to those last two inquries…

Is it possible — just possible — that there is something we don’t fully understand about God and about Life, the understanding of which could change everything? Yes.

Is it possible that there is something we don’t fully understand about ourselves and about who we are, the understanding of which would alter our lives forever for the better?

Yes.

Now, my answer to the questions with which I began this writing.

“What is the point of human life? Does it have a point?”

Yes. The point of human life is to recreate ourselves anew in each golden moment of Now in the next grandest version of the greatest vision ever we held about Who We Are.

Put another way, the purpose of life is evolution. That is both its Purpose and its Process.

“Is it simply, and nothing more than, an expression of a biological entity that begins in utero and ends at death?”

No. Life is much more than that. It is an eternal expression of a singular spiritual entity that has no beginning and no end.

“Is there life (that is, individual existence, consciousness and awareness of self) after death — and, for that matter, before birth?

Yes. There is no such thing as death. What we call death is merely a process of re-identification.

“Is there such a thing as the ‘soul,’ defined as a metaphysical individuality?”

Yes. The Soul is the individuation of the pure energy, or the Essential Essence of the Universe, that some of us call God.

“If so, what is its function or purpose?”

The function of the Soul is to provide a vehicle through which this Essential Essence expresses and experiences Itself in discrete and individual form.

I believe we are all on a journey here. I call it The Journey of the Soul. I believe that (to speak metaphorically) we come through the Door of Birth and leave through the Door of Death. I liken this to white light beamed through a prism. Beamed one way, we divide into three parts — Body, Mind, and Soul. Beamed the other way, we reintegrate into the Single Essence of the Soul, which is the pure energy of the Essential Essence, singularized.

It is my understanding that our journey is cyclical, or circular, with no beginning and no end, but with a purpose that is served by the very fact that it is circular. It is my awareness that the cyclical nature of life’s endless expression is what creates the possibility of its expansion through evolution.

When I look at the world as it is today I again think of wonderful Mr. George Bernard Shaw, who offered us this: “I hear you say ‘Why?’ Always ‘Why?’ You see things, and you say ‘Why?’ But I dream of things that never were, and say ‘Why Not’?”

And I think of William Shakespeare, who wrote: “There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

Now I know…I know….what the rationalists and those who are deeply into Scienceism (the theology that Science has the only, and all, the answers) will say. “More ‘woo’,” they will say. While the religionists join them in declaring: “Blasphemy.”

But let’s get back to Mr. Shaw. It was he who observed: “All great truths begin as blasphemies.” He also said, “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

Finally, Mr. Shaw asked a question that actually brings pain to the heart: “Must, then, a Christ perish in torment in every age to save those that have no imagination?”

Do you want to see something that describes Who We Really Are with imagination? Watch this. Look what the geniuses at MindValley did with the messages of Conversations with God. I dare you to watch this and say, “Ho-hum…”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8EBwV9UctI

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  • Craig

    Neale, the question is have we met our greatest enemy… The great I am that I am. Not God, I am referring to ourselves. Have we found out why we fail even when we prosper?
    Do not put your hand into your bosom. Take the beam out our own eyes so that we can see the cancer that is eating away at our chest.
    Neale meet Neale. Now Neale understand Neale and cure Neale. Once we understand this principle there will be no famine but only abundance. As every Neale will be a better Neale created unto the image of focussed likeness or compassion towards all. Not what I can earn but what difference I can make…
    Teach them science to prosper in their environment, equip them to optimize the science and you have cured millions by donating wisdom, with a little expense.

    • AKA Patrick

      I have said for a long time we suffer from what I call “The Pogo Complex”. You know…”We is met the enemy, and they is us”….We really are (or at least have been, our own worst enemy.

      • We may be our worst enemy in many cases, but we are also our best savior as well.

        • AKA Patrick

          So very true, as well.

  • Christopher Toft

    I read Neale’s post. I watched a episode of a silly tv show and I went to bed. Then I got up again and watched Neale’s YouTube video. And I was moved. And uncomfortable. I am beginning to understand how I work, how my life has worked and how it will work. I understand the challenges we face as a species, I know what is holding us back. It is simply this: We do not understand love.

    I am horrified by Neale’s comments, Neale’s factual(there means to be italics on my I pad😢) observations about the world. I am used to reacting to facts and statistics like these with guilt and shame, or numb hopelessness and powerlessness. This is simply unsustainable. I know I am only one human being of many, I am 44 in January, yet I am still just beginning to create and imagine a role for myself in the world that helps to bring the kind of changes we need to move forward in a truly meaningful way as a species. I honestly have no idea what such a positive role in the world will look like yet. But I have some idea how it will feel. It requires acting from my courage, noticing every negative feeling, every restricting thought pattern and seeing through the illusion of them. I’ll fall over. A lot. And I’ll cry, I’ll mourn, I’ll learn and I’ll get up. And I’ll fight for us. Because the biggest lie I have ever been told is that I am not worth it and that human beings are not worth it.

    • AKA Patrick

      At 81, I’m in process to evolve just that for myself and my fellow humans. To me, we must quit the fighting, and learn to love our fellow beings. I was aghast to find we’ve been involved in 79 wars since 1700, and we’ve never really been out of war mode. Now I wonder which President will have the courage to quit warring on others. We need a peaceful world.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Christopher,

      I was given the same message, on many different levels and at many different stages of life. I was specifically told I was worthless by my father when I was young. I was told I was worth less by society while growing up simply by being female. I was ridiculed and hated by coming out first as a lesbian, then later as someone who simply loves without regard to gender. I was definitely told I was not only worthless, but a drain on “the system,” when I became disabled. I was told I wasn’t worthy by the helping agencies in St. Louis, which started a domino effect that led to my nearly starving to death in my own home. I was shown how worthless I was believed to be by law enforcement when I was homeless.

      They were all wrong in their assessment of my worthiness.

      If you ever doubt your worth, need a shoulder, a bandaid for a skinned knee, or a hand to help you get back up, just give me a holler. You–all of us–are very worthy, especially of being loved as and for who we are.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      • Christopher Toft

        Hi Annie, I soppose in our differing ways and to varying degrees we all have the message drummed into us(“Born in sin” anyone?). I am through with doubting my own work, except perhaps in moments of extreme fear/challenge and even these will quickly pass. I remember your story about your father and forgiveness. Kudos to you. X

  • Stephen mills

    Thank you Neale for that wonderful video ,a positive piece of news for once !!!

    Can I share with you something I discovered on my research on life on Planet Earth on this day ? It ties in what you are saying about 650 children dying of hunger every hour and the forces that the Spiritual Progressives and all those that wish to see an end to poverty are up against.

    We have to end the Ban in Africa on Hemp farming. This from the Cannibis Trust .

    While millions of impoverished people die of starvation and sickness every year in Africa ,the cultivation of HEMP ,one of the most NUTRITIONAL and USEFULL plants known to humanity ,is banned by law throughout most of the African continent .

    This ban comes direct from the United States which demands a total ban on Hemp production before giving aid through the World Bank and International Monetary Fund .

    Hemp seed benefits : The oil is the richest source of Essential Fatty Acids .No single food has everything but the hemp seed has all eight amino acids that humans can’t live without it’s a great source of protein and contains vitamins A ,B1,B2,B6,C and E ,Calcium,Iron,Photosterols,Phosphorous,Magnesium,Zinc,Manganese,Chlorophyll.

    1 in 6 people go a day without proper nutrition or enough food .

    A child dies every 6 seconds from malnutrition.

    All it takes is 2-3 Tablespoons of hempseed per day to get sufficient nutrient intake.

    The forces we are up against are long in place long in power . They care only about their own interests and survival . We know that they are mistaken and believe only in scarcity ,debt ,money ,control and subservience.

    Thanks for pointing us to a another way of being human and what that could entail if we embraced our collective divinity .

    • In CwG book 2 there is some talk about the great value and advantages of hemp and how it can really help the world.

      • Stephen mills

        Thank you Marko that’s where I first read about the value of this miraculous plant .
        🙃

  • As for all the incredibly enormous problems in the world that can be simply quite overwhelming, we always have a choice on how we live and respond to that. CwG has found a way to help the individual on a personal level with the cwghelpingoutreachdotcom

    I wonder if a way will be developed to use CwG more in the collective, the magnifier effect as explained in “Happier Than God” book.

    The conclusion in the books and on this blog has been stated repeatedly over & over. Work on our individual self as a key to our own healing and spiritual growth and that will effect the world positively as well.

    As of yet, I’ve not heard much about how we can effect the world as a group be it CwG or combined with other groups, cultural creatives etc. Except, as we work and heal our own issues etc.

    As for why we have all the incredibly overwhelming problems issues facing the world I have one possible reason why this is happening and being created.

    This is a way in which we unconsciously as a world collective, or even beyond that, to show and create a context to present and see our highest potential. What better way to do this, then to create ourselves the world we now have with it’s seemingly staggering and endless problems? — only to rise above it, eventually solve and resolve them?

    • Spiritual_Annie

      You might try googling Humanity’s Team, Evolution Revolution, the Center for Integral Wisdom, Evolutionary Church, Global Oneness Day, Barbara Marx Hubbard, or Jean Houston. (Those are off the top of my head–there are more.) Many crossovers are ocurring. There are regular book discussions and online meetings.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      (BTW, the “church” isn’t so much a “church” as it is an everything-there-is collective, just in case the word “church” is a trigger for some.)

      • There are tons of groups out there with spiritual messages but none are getting together to form more singular focused intent, they all have differ agendas and that’s sometimes the problem, too many agendas, not enough singular focus.

        CwG’s most profound impact with on the ground results is the WECCE site. I see no other equivalent for the larger collective with that same effectiveness or results.

  • Patrick Gannon

    Well, so much for the step back from woo!

    I strenuously object to the idea that anyone who doesn’t buy into woo gods, souls and such, but rather accepts what we know about our natural world, is somehow indifferent to the plight of those who are less advantaged. That is complete crap. This is the same concept Neale used back when he trashed atheists and agnostics and referred to us as “damaging.” That’s insulting and therefore, very Christian!

    The fact that there are any toilets at all is due to science. The fact that so many people are fed, is due to science. The fact that so many people are alive is because science came to understand germs and allowed millions of people to live who would have otherwise died in the past. It’s important for religious leaders to make sure people know just how terrible things are, so that they can reach out and offer the cure…. and reap financial rewards in the process.

    All the woo in the world has never solved anything. Neale’s proposal is based entirely on faith – pretending to know things we don’t know – like souls and afterlives. Faith has no epistemic (relating to knowledge or to the degree of its validation) status. It is an irrational leap over the need for evidence. It has no intellectual merit. It is not a virtue, it has no method, and it solves no problems. It is not worthy of thinking people. He’s dumbing you down.

    I’m disappointed to see Neale double down on the woo, but then, he won’t be around to see his legacy destroyed when the obituary for woo is finally published. In choosing to denigrate science, Neale has chosen to side with the anti-science Trumpists, the fundagelicals, and the willfully ignorant. In Donald Trump twitter terms: “Sad.”

    • Spiritual_Annie

      In my reading of the column, Neale points out that it’s the seven billion people on the planet who are allowing and causing the suffering and deaths of others. I certainly don’t think that all seven billion people on the planet are “Trumpists, the fundangelicals, and the willfully ignorant.” Did he somehow strike a nerve?

      The fact that so many people don’t have toilets, or clean drinking water, or food could, I believe, be solved by science. Instead, science’s focus has been on building larger and faster accelerators, or coming up with larger and more lethal weapons, or figuring out how to go to other planets instead of solving the problems on our own. How many people could have been fed, had clean drinking water, been clothed, and been housed with the money spent on those scientific ventures? Why is the focus not towards solving the real problems of billions of people on our planet?

      That’s not “woo.” That’s indifference.

      • Raphael

        Science is unfortunately driven and controlled by government and financed by corporate money, in other words by the military-industrial complex. This is why practical, scientific solutions to the world problems are not coming forth, because the sick status quo profits the predatory class and the exploiters, and they do not want change.

        • Stephen mills

          Remember a dozen or more years ago they created Graphene …it was as hard as diamond but super light .
          You can bet the military got their hands on it and took it out of public domain .It just disappeared of the radar . Science is now so secretive used only to claim advantage and power over others .

          • Patrick Gannon

            You can all turn in your smartphones, GPS, internet connections, medicines, and other products that those secret science people hid from you..

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Obviously, those weren’t stolen or hidden. And the companies that produce and sell them make a huge profit off of them.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            As I understand it, there are also many “free energy” devices (along the lines of the Tesla Tower, where the energy in the “space” around us can be harvested) that have also been repressed by Big Oil politics. In my opinion, what we need is a true philanthropist–someone willing to build these devices (as well as other helpful produts) and freely give away their design instead of trying to patent them.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Google it on Wikipedia.

      • Patrick Gannon

        Yes he struck a nerve. For a couple articles there, he seemed to be looking for a way to make his message fit the natural world as it actually operates, but he abandoned that rational approach, it seems to me. His message is irretrievably tied to woo – to things for which we have no evidence, and which fly in the face of our state of knowledge. I guess his message was too difficult to reconcile with reality, so he went back to the magic path.

        Of course I did not say that 7 billion people were Trumpists – I said Neale (like others here) sided with them when it comes to accepting science as valid, dependable and useful. When it comes to toilets, science is still improving them with self-composting systems for the third world – technology that probably came from space. I don’t see anyone here improving the situation of the third world.

        Short sighted people whine about the money spent on space exploration or scientific projects, but you’ll be hard pressed to find a study that says we didn’t get a lot more out of it in the long run, than we ever put into it. I know you object to SpaceX and Musk’s goal of getting the human genome off of the earth so there is a backup. I guess the idea is that if you go down, we all should? You suggest that we fix the problems here. How do we fix an ELE (extinction level event) asteroid headed our way, if we don’t have the technology to do it? It’s not a question of “if” there will be such events, only a question of “when.” They have always happened and we are overdue. There are some elements and minerals on this earth that have become very important, and they are nearly all mined. If we don’t get to the asteroids to mine these elements, our progress will be affected.

        We are on the verge of a big increase in satellite coverage. SpaceX changed the rules with reusable craft, and in bringing down the cost of launching satellites, we are going to get covered with LEO (low earth orbit) satellites that will do all sorts of things. They will track cows and provide medical alerts, provide status and location of vehicles, including all the autonomous (self-driving) cars that are going to appear in the next decade. We’ll have amazing information about earth to help us plant crops, locate areas needing assistance, the list of applications just goes on and on. We’ll know who is diverting rivers, dumping pollutants, stealing livestock and truck loads… We are going to get back our investment in space technology in spades!

        What specifically do you propose that science should do to solve the real problems of billions of people on our planet, that they are not already doing? Along with that list, please tell me specifically how woo-meisters such as Neale are contributing to this effort. Science may give us artificial meat before too long. That would reduce a ton of pollution as live animals are phased out of production, and new food sources made available. Woo would have us sing Kumbaya but would feed no one; it would merely denigrate those who are trying to actually solve our problems.

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Patrick: “Of course I did not say that 7 billion people were Trumpists – I said Neale (like others here) sided with them when it comes to accepting science as valid, dependable and useful.”

          I did not read anywhere that Neale implied that science isn’t valid, dependable and useful. I have heard him wonder, however, about the funding of science, and who decides that it’s more important to find the Higgs boson than it is to save the lives of millions of people who are starving. I agree with him.

          Patrick: “When it comes to toilets, science is still improving them with self-composting systems for the third world – technology that probably came from space.”

          Why build a better toilet when there are so many who have none at all? I’m sure that those without would be perectly happy with a standard porcelain toilet and sanitation system, with wastewater retrieval, like we already have here.

          Patrick: “There are some elements and minerals on this earth that have become very important, and they are nearly all mined. If we don’t get to the asteroids to mine these elements, our progress will be affected.”

          Why should we go out into space and mine minerals from elsewhere, rather than changing what it is we use to a renewable resource? Scientists like to discover new things, right? Why not discover a way not to need those minerals?

          “We are on the verge of a big increase in satellite coverage.”

          Again, how many people could be fed, or clothed, or housed, with the money spent not only on these satellites, but on their launches and operation? And how much money will be made by those others will have to pay for the information gleaned by tracking our every move?

          Patrick: “We’ll know who is diverting rivers, dumping pollutants, stealing livestock and truck loads.”

          You think we don’t know this now? Of course we do! We simply allow those with political pull and money to get away with it. You might have forgotten that I worked for local governments almost my entire working life. I know what they knew then–and it was a lot.

          I believe that science could invest in better materials for infrastructure, so that our sanitary and storm sewers, roads, bridges and tunnels last longer and are cheaper to repair or replace; in better transportation and distribution systems so that food isn’t being wasted on one side of the planet while others are starving on the other side of the planet; on building materials that last longer, are safer during natural disasters, and are cheaper to build with and repair, using renewable resources; on giving up on Big Oil and how to frack more of it out of the ground and instead investing in more renewable energy sources.

          I believe that science could come to understand that when the Earth dies because of our actions, we all die. So, we save the genome when we all die here. Why should it survive, if we’ve already destroyed an entire planet? So that when it evolves, we destroy another?

          You ask what people like Neale, a Spiritual messenger, and others like him add to humanity. He’s not afraid to ask the tough questions, like why aren’t we caring for all of us, since we’re all connected. He reminds us that when one of us suffers, we all suffer. He provides the passion for humanity that science is missing. He adds love to the equation. He adds depth to the meaning of life. He has the courage to speak his own truth.

          I would add that Neale is hardly alone. There is Deepak Chopra, Oprah Winfrey, Jean Houston, Barbara Marx Hubbard, Marc Gafni, Marianne Williamson, Michael Beckwith, Iyanla Vanzant, Mike Dooley, SARK, and many, many others. There are also organizations, such as the Center for Integral Wisdom, Humanity’s Team, Hay House, DailyOM, Balboa Press, Evolution Revolution, and many, many others.

          • Victor

            Sometime ago I heard something like: “Science is about how’s. Spirituality, Ethics, Arts, are about why’s, what for’s, and meaning.”

            I can’t believe here is this old ‘battle’ between science and spirituality.

            For me, it is a false dichotomy.

            Greetings and blessings, Annie, Neale, Patrick, and everybody here…

          • Kristen

            You’re right Victor…there is no battle at all. In fact Priests, Monks and so forth were the original alchemists…..OT scriptures even had them doing STD checks, the medical procedures, treating mold and infections etc. Nuns started midwifery services….religion, spirituality, science and medicine all went hand in hand happily UNTIL medicine, science and technology became so profitable and people stopped sharing ideas nicely.
            Goodness knows where people came up with the idea there was a seperation, its all psychological.

    • Craig

      The truth Patrick is that if it was not for science and technological advancement we would not have been so informed of the global crisis…
      I just wonder is there really such a huge problem as every minute 13 workers die in the US alone while at work… Which is the worst no breadwinner or children in famine stricken areas that should not have been born had the parents acted more caringly. Cultures have caused these predicaments yet we as the more informed individuals still protect cultures that are more harming than good. Because we do not want to be impolite… We need to be political correct. Evolution realises this so evolution permits the deaths for a greater reality.
      The truth is 10% of the adult population earn 90% of the income. So us 90% are also in famine stricken realities… What are the 10% actually doing, making things more affordable or loading prices so that they can earn more… Robert K… Rich dad poor dad.
      Let’s promote teaching science to survive then equip so that they can use the science… A small donation to change a reality is all that is needed…. Not a sick propaganda by the wealthy to get the poor people to feel bad and make donations that promote the image of the wealthy.
      O yes 90% of humans only occupy 10% of the inhabitable earth… Wonder why?? Then we want to cry about the 10% that occupy the most land.
      Darn now I wrote from the heart and it does not make me feel any better…

    • NealeDonaldWalsch

      @Patrick Gannon: My dear Patrick — and others who may be following the discussion here: I do not have any desire to turn a “discussion” into an “argument,” so I hope you will allow me to comment on some of what you have written here, without either of us, or anyone else, being seen as becoming verbally combative. Let us endeavor to move to a place where both your point of view and mine may be exchanged and expressed with intellectual camaraderie.

      You have said, Patrick: “I strenuously object to the idea that anyone who doesn’t buy into woo gods, souls and such, but rather accepts what we know about our natural world, is somehow indifferent to the plight of those who are less advantaged. That is complete crap.”

      I couldn’t agree with you more, Patrick. It is complete crap. And I never intended to convey such a thought. Please forgive me if that was the impression I created. What I was trying and hoping to say is simply this: If we look at the progress that we HAVE made in the world in a way that suggests that this speaks well enough for us as a species for those who say that we have not made sufficient progress to be satisfied, and to keep still about the progress we have NOT made…THAT would be indifference to the plight of others. But I did not mean to say that ANYONE (to use the word that you used) who does not “buy into” my point of view falls into this category. I surely don’t think that you do. But there are those, Patrick, who do. Some say…and I have HEARD some people actually say… “Hey, listen…I’m tired of all this ‘We got problems’ stuff. We’ve made huge progress over the course of history, and we need to get some credit here as a species, and sciences needs to get some credit here for producing those results. Enough with the ‘ain’t it awful’ stuff.”

      You have not said that, Patrick. You have not suggested for one minute that we should be totally satisfied with the place to which science has taken us, with no need to wish for, or hope for, or call for more progress.

      So all I am saying is that we have not done enough. Not nearly enough. Too many people — billions — are still suffering from conditions that many of us left behind centuries ago. Not even access to something as basic as clean water? Not even toilets? Not even enough food to eat, in 2017? Really? This is a civilized species? A civilized species allows this? A civilized species can find no way, what with all its scientific and mechanical and technical advancements, to solve this? I’m sure you have the compassion to agree that this is not enough progress for us to be completely satisfied with.

      You have said, Patrick: “The fact that there are any toilets at all is due to science. The fact that so many people are fed, is due to science. The fact that so many people are alive is because science came to understand germs and allowed millions of people to live who would have otherwise died in the past.”

      I couldn’t agree with you more. I hope I have never suggested for a minute that science has done no good for our planet, or that the improvements you point out are NOT due to science. Since I have never made such an argument, I am not sure why you find it a valid part of our discourse to point all this out. What I am saying is that, all that science HAS done for humankind notwithstanding, our species has not made ENOUGH progress toward the alleviation of suffering. And I am suggesting that it may be because there are some things that the majority of us, as a species, have failed to seriously consider as being possibly helpful in this regard. That is all I have been saying, Patrick. Not that science has done NOTHING. So it feels that you are tilting at windmills here, fighting dragons that don’t exist.

      You have said, Patrick: “It’s important for religious leaders to make sure people know just how terrible things are, so that they can reach out and offer the cure…. and reap financial rewards in the process.” I am not quite as ready to ascribe such motives to religious leaders, my friend. Certainly not to all of them. And I “get” that you did not use the word “all,” so perhaps you agree with me that “some” religious leaders continue to point to “how terrible things are” so that they CAN, in FACT, “reach out and offer the cure”, in a genuine and honestly helpful way, both by assisting to impact in a positive way peoples’ attitude and response to those who are suffering, as well as by offering immediate, hands-on assistance, as many religious organizations seek to do for people in need, regularly.

      I think that to suggest that religious leaders point out the terrible suffering in our world is “so that they can reach out and offer the cure…and reap financial rewards in the process” is just as much of a sweeping indictment as you condemn me for in my writing. So I am left wondering if your condemnations of those portions of my writing that you say “trashed atheists and agnostics” is not a glaring case of “the pot calling the kettle black.”

      Perhaps we might both benefit — as might Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump — from toning down the rhetoric. I do see how some folks could view passages in my writing as trashing atheists and agnostics. Do you see how some folks could see some passages your writing as trashing religious leaders? What makes your “trashing” more tolerable or acceptable than mine?

      You have said, Patrick: “Neale’s proposal is based entirely on faith – pretending to know things we don’t know – like souls and afterlives.” While I wouldn’t use the word “pretending” (I don’t think that a person of faith is “pretending” anything, And I find the use of the word in this context to be, again, pejorative)…I do agree with your description of my proposal as being based “entirely on faith.” The difference between us seems to be that I don’t see anything wrong with that.

      I have mentioned before in this space that we — all of us, you and I and everyone else — operate on “faith” in our lives all the time, to our mutual and individual benefit. I have “faith” that my wife loves me and is loyal to me, and I do not experience this act of faith on my part as “pretending to know things” that I cannot prove factually or scientifically. To the contrary, I experience it as “an act of knowing that requires no physical evidence or scientific proof.”

      Let me give you another example — one that is perhaps a bit closer to home. I have “faith” in your basic goodness as a person, Patrick. From the many entries you have posted on this website, I have come to admire your intelligence, your sense of logic, your analytical approach to things, and your desire for basic fairness in all discussions and exchanges. From these particular evidences I deduce that you are, in many other ways that I have not seen direct evidence of, a good person — a person whose word and bond can be trusted, etc. And yes, Patrick, I have “faith” in my deductive abilities. I am not “pretending” that I know you are a good person, Patrick. I know. I have an internal and intuitive sense of it, based on my limited personal subjective experience, and a great deal of “good faith.”

      Likewise, from some particular evidences in my own experience, I have deduced some things about life itself for which I have no direct evidence. And in this, as well, I have “faith” in my deductive abilities. I don’t observe myself to be “pretending.” I have an internal and intuitive sense of it, based on limited personal subjective experience, and a great deal of “good faith.”

      You have said, Patrick: “Faith has no epistemic (relating to knowledge or to the degree of its validation) status. It is an irrational leap over the need for evidence. It has no intellectual merit. It is not a virtue, it has no method, and it solves no problems. It is not worthy of thinking people. He’s dumbing you down.

      Wow, we keep agreeing with each other, Patrick — in part! I concede that faith has no epistemic status. I also agree that it is “an irrational leap over the need for evidence.” Love itself is often irrational, my friend. (Actually, very often!) I would not agree, however, that love has no value. Nor do I agree that faith has no value. I may go along with your observation that faith “has no intellectual merit,” but I believe that it can have considerable psychological merit, not inconsequential emotional merit, and powerful spiritual merit. Therefore, I also disagree with your assessment that “it solves no problems.” I could offer you vivid testimony of thousands of people (probably millions) who would tell you that faith, INDEED, has solved problems.

      I also disagree with your statement that faith “is not worthy of thinking people.” Once again, that feels denigrating, disparaging, and belittling, my friend. Plenty of “thinking people” have found faith to be worthy of them. And I don’t think that my offering my particular thoughts on life are “dumbing down” anyone.

      I have “complete faith” (ha!) in peoples’ ability to hear my ideas and decide for themselves, one way or the other, whether those ideas have any value or validity in their lives. And I do not agree that if a person feels that the ideas in Conversations with God DO have value in their life, that such a person has been dumbed down.

      Finally, Patrick, you have said: “In choosing to denigrate science, Neale has chosen to side with the anti-science Trumpists.” This surprises me, because I do not believe that anything I have said, now or ever, could be accurately interpreted as denigrating science or being anti-science. I have simply offered my opinion that the “Theology of Scienceism,” which I define as the idea that science offers ALL, and the ONLY, answers to EVERY life question, may not be the best approach for us to take on this planet…and that, indeed, the taking of such an approach can actually do us harm, by its failure to consider the possibility — even the POSSIBILITY — that there may be something we do not fully understand about God and about life, the understanding of which could change everything. This is not anti-science, Patrick. This is anti-absoluteism.

      And speaking of absoluteism…I have said something very often that I don’t recall you, Patrick, ever having said on this Comment Board. I have said: “I could, of course, be wrong about all of this.” I would (and I believe many of us here would) find it refreshing to hear you say the same thing about your views.

      Those are my comments in response to your post above, offered by me from the For What It’s Worth Dept.

      Wishing you a good day…Neale.

      • Patrick Gannon

        I appreciate that you took the time and consideration to respond to my post, Neale. I could go through it line by line countering some of it, and agreeing with some of it, but I see no sense in it any longer. Some of your followers are as blind as those of Jim Jones or Marshall Applegate. Your primary message relies on believing in things that have been demonstrated to be unscientific. It would be one thing if these things were still unknown, but they aren’t; yet you persist, and you bring along with you people who can’t force themselves to face truth. You know no more than the priests who told us as children that unbaptized babies went to LImbo and that a piece of bread turned into a god. You have no more evidence for your belief in gods, souls and afterlives than those priests did. So why were they wrong, and you’re right?

        I have to touch on one point. You said you have “faith” that I am a good person. No you don’t. You have “trust” because you have seen where I come from and you know by way of evidence that I am not a bad person. Trust is not the same thing as faith. You can call it pejorative if you like, but that definition of faith was dead-on accurate, and I stand by every word of it. Faith is not a virtue. It’s lying to ourselves. It’s not healthy. It is perhaps, our society’s biggest challenge. You help people lie to themselves. You help convince them to believe things that their brains know they don’t know. You see how they react when their beliefs are challenged… Challenging New Age believers is no different than challenging literalist fundamental Pentecostal fanatics. The response is the same. Why is that?

        I’m not in the same place you are, when you say, “I could of course be wrong about all of this.” You have zilch for evidence. If I don’t know something, I say so, but when it comes to things we know beyond reasonable doubt, I have little reason to add such caveats. I can point to the evidence. You can’t. That’s what this is all about. Actually I have admitted I could be wrong. In response to questions here, I have suggested that indeed it is possible that every single physics experiment ever conducted gave us wrong results; but the odds of that are pretty small, wouldn’t you say?

        Our situations in this regard, are not at all similar. I think we have to face truth in order to move forward. You believe we can keep lying to ourselves, as long as it’s your beliefs, and I think it’s time for mankind to face the music and deal with it – this is what we get. You could be right about the continued coddling. We may not be able to face the truth – but it seems inhuman and cowardly not to try.

        I still don’t know if you are deluded or a scoundrel. I’d like it better if you turned out to be a scoundrel in all honesty; but I don’t care anymore. All this writing, and I don’t get paid for it, like you do… I found someone willing to pay me for a little writing on the side, and I need the extra cash if I’m going to keep paying for Annie’s health insurance; so you won’t be seeing much of me here anymore. Hopefully I contributed to some stimulating discourse, but it’s time to move on… Best wishes to all of you, delusions and all!

        • NealeDonaldWalsch

          Fair enough, Patrick. Go well upon your way. I send you regards and every good wish.

    • Jethro

      The flushing toilet was invented by John Harington (Sir John Harington), was an English courtier, author and translator popularly known as the inventor of the flush toilet in 1596. Joseph Bramah, of Yorkshire, was an English inventor and locksmith. He is best known for having invented the hydraulic press. Along with William George Armstrong, he can be considered one of the two fathers of hydraulic engineering and patented the first practical water closet in England in 1778. George Jennings was an English sanitary engineer and plumber who invented the first public flush toilets and in 1852 also took out a patent for the flush-out toilet. In a time when bathroom fixtures were barely spoken of, Thomas Crapper heavily promoted sanitary plumbing and pioneered the concept of the bathroom fittings showroom. Crapper, an Industrialist, plumber, was born in Thorne, South Yorkshire, in 1836. In 1853 he was apprenticed to his brother George, who was a master plumber in Chelsea. After his apprenticeship and three years as a journeyman plumber, in 1861 Crapper set himself up as a sanitary engineer, with his own brass foundry and workshops in nearby Marlborough Road.

  • Spiritual_Annie

    Wow. Not only is this an incredibly moving column, but the video brought me to tears–tears of love, of joy, of possibilities yet to be discovered, of hope. I’m just going to ramble once again, letting the words come as they may, after such a moving column and video.

    One thing that has never happened, even though I have read and heard the statistics of those who do without and those who die needlessly many times over, is that my heart has never hardened to them. I am always appalled at what humans allow to happen, or cause to happen, to their fellow human beings (much less other species and our planet).

    I am with Neale on this one–I am unimpressed with those who cite as “progress” that we are no longer serfs (but are slaves to politial, legal and law enforcement systems); that some lives are longer (I believe in quality over quantity) and inequitably so (the best medical treatments are reserved for those with more money); that scientific funding goes to investigate things that do not necessarily save or improve lives; that someday our genome may be “saved” on Mars while our species perishes on Earth and ruins her for other species with reckless abandon; that the scientific discovery of the Higgs boson is seen as the be-all-and-end-all of discoveries (as if theres nothing left to be discovered that could impact us); or that scientists have discovered even more effective means for us to destroy ourselves and our planet.

    And thanks, Neale, for the term–paraphrased–“theology of Scienceism,” as I have long believed that scientists and their followers have, in some instances, become both as dogmatic and arrogant as fundamental religionists. I’m certain to use it regularly.

    Growing up, I used to hear often from my Mama (and hers) that “there is more than meets the eye.” Indeed. There is that which meets the mind, there is that which meets the heart, and there is that which meets the Soul. I knew what she was encouraging us to do, which was to look beyond the obvious, beyond what’s “normal,” beyond what’s ordinary. She was asking us to seek the extra-ordinary, the meaning behind every action, to never make assumptions, to dig deeply, and to love whomever seemed unlovable. That’s a lot of wisdom for a woman born during the Great Depression, who lived through World War II by serving at soup kitchens and taking in orphans, and was expected to be “no more” than a wife and mother (as if that isn’t enough).

    It has led me to come to believe many things. I believe that I live, here and now, and for all the moments of my life, with purpose. I believe that my Soul chose this particular life, and the family and circumstances that I was born into, with purpose–to undergo and share with others a deep healing journey that led me to better understand humanity and who I am, forever changing how I look at myself, my fellow human beings, and society. I believe that part of that purpose is to be as awake to who I am as is possible in all the moments of my life, and to share myself and my Spirituality openly with others. I believe that I am here to share unconditional love and compassion for all humanity, all species, and the Earth herself–openly and often loudly, to be heard above the din of self-interest and to awaken those stuck in disinterest.

    Yep, I believe Mama (and her maternal forebears) were right: there is much more than meets the eye. And my life has been much fuller, deeper, and more rich in experience for looking beyond the obvious and the ordinary. I have discovered much, and anticipate discoverng much more, by looking and listening deeply.

    I may have to post again to directly address the column, but this is what is in me to share here, now.

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • Patrick Gannon

      I have no words… the stupidity… it burns… .I’m done with this place. Return to your Kumbaya and your mindless chit chat. I shall not be intruding again. It was real and it was fun, but it was not real fun, and now it’s done. I’ve had enough of this lunacy.

      Jethro, Craig – we had a few decent chats. I appreciate that you both have some semblance of open minds. I just came up with a side job writing copy for a web newsfeed and I don’t have the time to waste here any longer. Good luck to you both.

      • Spiritual_Annie

        Patrick, I sincerely wish you well, even with the insults on your way out.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        • Want to take bets he will be back?

          • Kristen

            Ten bucks.
            If I lose it can be my donation to Annies medical insurance that he kindly pays. That one was a low blow!

          • Ha, let’s see what happens, I think he’ll return at some point. Probably sooner or later. But regardless, his religion was science and he was as rigid and fundamentalist on that point, not realizing the irony of his own rigid religious like position.

            I would confidently assert that CwG people and most all spiritual and metaphysical people believe and rally for science. They simply see that there is more to life than the physical. I mean who invented science? Did not God the all and all?

            He simply would not accept that. He didn’t have to believe it himself, but like a Christian Fundamentalist he used science as his conversional tool to try and convert us. He went from one prior metaphysical beliefs extreme to science extreme.

            He spent an incredible and enormous amount of time, energy here. I was a bit astounded at the amount of energy he put here. And apparently he does so on other sites as well. I personally found it quite tiring and boring after awhile. But certainly wish him well on his journey.

          • Kristen

            I was sympathetic at first, then he acknowledged he was a troll here arguing for his own entertainment….go figure?
            Time and energy in here…..Id say online addictions for many people.

          • You may be right on that addiction thing.

          • Kristen

            Oops, I didnt mean online addiction for many of us in here.
            I meant in general and what I think drives people to troll or end up in sites just for the sake of it.

      • Jethro

        Been a pleasure. Best wishes to you and your endeavors.

      • AKA Patrick

        Glad to see you go.

        • Jethro

          Whether agreeing or not, we’re all human beings. Every post is important.

        • Kristen

          Hahahahaha, the biggest balls trophy goes to you this week!

          • Jethro

            Balls? A person feels the way they do and That’s that, but a lack of understanding is a lack of understanding either way. It takes balls to be kind to that which you do not understand, no balls are required to be unkind, especially when facing no consequences.

          • Kristen

            Hi,
            Interesting, I think exactly the opposite to that…it takes HUGE balls to be unkind and facing consequences shouldnt make a difference to anything people do, it doesnt give me more freedom at all. I like those or that I dont understand, lack of understanding is just like that saying of a stranger is just a stranger we’ve never met.
            Once you understand them…..well, lets just say it takes huge balls to disallow dominance, bullying, deceptive atyempts, trolling and to and be unkind with honesty.

          • Jethro

            Huge balls to stand up to it as it’s happening, not as it’s walking away. I agree with what you have said otherwise.
            Patrick is hard to argue with, I didn’t like it in the beginning either but I never felt bullied by him. I can see how some might. I enjoyed the conversation even when not agreeing. Patrick is unwavering, it does a person good to agree to not agree, he and I did on several occasions. That’s ok.

          • Kristen

            I wouldnt use the word argue for anything Ive seen, perhaps I see it all differently as I told him. I see a grumpy man, angry as he feels the church and Neale have decieved him the past, who lost his faith somehow. Now he dedicates his spare time trolling, attempting to convince those of faith and KNOW God, The Universe or whatever exists, its been proven to them or us, that we are all wrong, therefore liars AND he is right. Because scientists he’s read about havnt discovered what we have.
            It was sad, then annoying, then rude and mean to Annie, then just downright silly when he knows hes wasting his time here….finally.
            Every person is enjoyable to talk with, and things dont make people a bad person, and arguements wouldnt bother me either, they’re two sided and generally acknowledging the other thinks differently to you, even debates are acceptable…..but I havnt seen any of that at all.
            Just someone trying to take peoples faith away. Hes just damn lucky we are such strong people in here, because its a HUGE HUGE thing to do, the same as Satans messengers do. I see it for what it is, not just a man with different views, what if he’s ever managed to get between a person and God….the Scripture God for example….thats serious stuff, not flippant as he plays. Hes completely playing you Jethro.

          • Jethro

            He never played me, and he did not change my thoughts about anything. He and I have something in common, We feel lied to about many things in religion. The ultimate question is, why? To make sense of many things after we feel betrayed or lied to we try to find the truth while refusing to accept anymore possible lies. There were times when he was over the top for sure and while he may deny that there may be something more that he doesn’t understand, we are all looking for more understanding. A 3 year old spends most of every waking moment asking why. I don’t think it ever leaves our thoughts, we just quit asking the question out loud.
            Your version of a deity is different from the version I was raised with and I have no problems with that, I’m intrigued and read your post when you speak of your understanding. If I was to take the churches word (that I grew up in) I wouldn’t be intrigued, I would feel sorry for you for being so, so wrong. I would pray for your lost soul. Religions are playing with peoples lives when they teach such things. I have thought about the people who have there different beliefs and accept that people must worship in the religion in which they are raised if they are going to worship a God at all and then I look at ISIS and the God they worship and the things God has told them. Maybe I don’t feel 100% about that. They are very dominant. Not cool at all.

            How can so much hate come from a religion in which the word love is used so much?

          • Kristen

            Last question….I have no idea. And I wouldnt say God told Muslims much, remember a lot was from other prophets….and Im not inclined to believe Gabriel was the chaneller either. Where do all the virgins come from for a start…their brothers or neighbours daughers? Who are banned from sex before marriage, so they then all kill eachother for defiling virgins, and there are also no virgins left to marry so extinct themselves? Defies all logic to me AND what the heck do adult men want to sleep with presumably teenage virgins for? Or are they actually the old Catholic nuns? Last I read God said thy shalt not kill, and if you sleep with someone bethrothed to another you should marry her. And only priests had to marry a virgin. Or are ISIS and many ‘sects’ all wannabe priests?
            It doesnt make sense to me anymore than Christianity as a concept. Israelites, Jewish people, Muslims as the offspring of Abraham yes, but Christianity, nope.
            Its all selective, everyone has the same OT, where God tells men to be a good husband, not to dominate or boss little kids around, to spare the rod and to spoil the child….go figure?

          • Jethro

            How can so much hate come from a religion in which the word love is used so much? I mean “all” religions. Isn’t it all about being better persons to other persons and self? I have no desire to be connected with so much hate. The wisdom of caring is internal for all. I learned to be angry by going to church. I have not been to a church, aside from work, marriage, and death in many years and I have no desire to back to a place that is so angry and sad about the people they interact with daily. I choose to embrace them all… that’s a lie. I embrace most people. Not agreeing with someone does not make them wrong!
            You mention something above and I laughed a little at a thought I shared with my mother when I was 7 or 8. I asked her why we got so many spankings if the bible said spare the rod and spoil the child. She said, what that means is if we spare the rod our children will be spoiled, so we shouldn’t spare the rod, we should discipline our children so they learn to follow the rules. It made sense, but I was disappointed… very disappointed. I spanked my kids when they were young to get their attention, I spanked my son once when he was 8 for kicking the wall and talking back to his mother. It was so rare and shocking to him, he remembers it vividly at age 26. I went out to the front porch and cried for half an hour. If a person is hitting their children, the child has outsmarted them in their actions. Spanking is a lazy persons way.

          • Kristen

            Your mum was wrong…thats Catholic, Lutheran, Smish etc teaching, and goes against everything else God said. Solomon said it anyway, not God, and he worshipped other Gods, destroyed the environment, treated people as dlaves and ran a free brothel!….as much of a douche as Paul!

          • Jethro

            LOL, if it was in the bible God put it there as far as they were concerned. That is the Christian belief anyway. I’m not sure what all Christians believe of course. What is the truth? I’m going with what makes sense to me anymore. Hatred makes no sense. Learning about heaven has put many people through hell.

          • Craig

            Maybe fixed to hell as religion implies unwaivering compliance while love implies on going compassion like a mother has for the child in her womb…

          • Kristen

            I know. Although Yshua said Heaven is reserved for children, to be like children, only the righteous can get in, its hard for the wealthy to get in and to never mislead children. The only ‘adult’ Heaven seems to be at the very end when all are judged and no liars can get in….and its on Earth and its love and joy based. Joy is generally laughter, and Heaven refers more to a state of mind, bliss, happiness, no confusion etc. Just as Hell is a state of mind but both where the physical environment and people will ‘create’ that environment.
            I have no idea what bibles Christians have, certainly not the normal ones but based on what Scriptures actually say about Heaven, they’re in for one Hell of a shock!!! Its just a huge manmade cult based on deception.
            Or they’re all illiterate!

          • Jethro

            Holy Bible – King James version, until the other English versions came about. I think a whole lot of people are going to be in for one hell of a shock… the question would then be… who? Regardless of who you ask, everyone is saying the same thing and “their” belief is correct. So who is telling me the truth and who can prove it? Or is there another way? Maybe acceptance of different beliefs is the correct way.

          • Kristen

            Most their teachings arent in the King James, they ‘alter’ everything, scriptures forbid that, and from putting words in Gods mouth.
            If they all actually taught what is in the bible I wouldnt have a problem with them, thats between them and God. Then the truth about that would be “the Bible states that’, as I do, but thats just the truth on that matter. Then I would acknowledge Christianity as a religion, but I cant while they distort everything and teach lies. Classic example is Catholicism saying priests cant marry…God said priests are to marry, its His religion so His rules. If they dont want to teach or learn what the bible actually states then dont be Christian…simple as that!
            Beliefs are different to religion.

          • Jethro

            Sounds good to me, I’m surely not defending them. Just telling you what my experience was. Too many denominations for any of them to be right as far as I’m concerned. They have tweaked everything a great deal. It’s why I believe there is an alternate meaning to it all. nothing related to what I was taught.

          • Kristen

            Yeah, me too, so only listen to Rabbis.
            In Theology papers via Kabbalah we have to follow the subject through to make the story on each matter, from Genesis to Revelation, not adding one word nor taking one away. You end up with headings like Children, food, marriage etc with lists of scriptures. Gods words, or apparent words, in one colour, Priests and Jesus in another then everyone else in a 3rd colour. Then we follow Jesus telling people not to listen to any man over God and scriptures stating if anything differs to what God has already said then its not of God, cross those things out and believe what’s left is the closest to the truth of Gods views on that topic.

          • Jethro

            The Bible was not suppose to be scriptures. It was suppose to be a book of stories, complete stories. Maybe some day I’ll read it as such. Until then, it comes from within me. Following my own story of humanity has been working very well.

          • Kristen

            I go by whats within me as well, scriptures are for reading what God had to say in his various and varied inreractions with many people.

          • Craig

            I read heaven is here and now. It’s when we put it at the end that we miss the connection of salvation peace, righteousness and joy in our every moment.

          • Kristen

            I personally believe its a state anyone can reach at anytime when they are receptive to it and know what it actually is, BUT in saying that, when it comes to scriptures and Gods religion I will only acknowledge whats in scripture. So will only go by whats in Scriptures in association with God and Christians. I didnt write the bible, but also dont have the authority to change it so suit me, no one does.

      • Christopher Toft

        Hello Patrick, you may want to consider the possibility that a person can agree with ninety something percent of what Neale says and still be agnostic or undecided(not enough data) about supernatural ideas. This is my own position in the debates here. There is too much polarised thinking in this world in my opinion and the debate between science and religious worldviews has much in common I think with contemporary politics sadly. To my mind there is an enormous amount of value psychologically and socially in religious ideas, particularly in eastern religions. The philosophical concept of emptiness or interdependence for example is a profound tool for cutting through destructive emotions and increasing the wellbeing of ourselves and those we love. I care passionately about clear thinking and accepting reality as it is without sugar coating and the way that I pursue this aim in my life is through practicing awareness and compassion. I believe you are already aware of the fact that strong negative emotions and mind states twist and distort our perceptions so that we only see the aspects of reality that we are comfortable seeing. Reality contains a little of everything I find and the “spiritual” quest for me is about bringing together seemingly opposing points of view in order to see reality more and more clearly in all it’s complexity.

      • Kristen

        Farewell my bff.

      • Craig

        I learnt a lot from you thank you. Keep sharing honestly, I was taught to add some salt with hard words maybe this can help to share essential information others perceive to be a personal attack…

  • Raphael

    This is a bit off topic, yet distantly related, like a cousin twice removed.

    Let’s tweak George Bernard Shaw’s sentence a bit, and see what we get:

    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the NATURAL world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the NATURAL world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

    Progress? Not from this perspective…the unreasonable man destroys the natural eco-system, the natural order and balance, and creates chaos, attempting to impose his will on nature without actually understanding the consequences of his insensitive actions.

    I know this is not at all what Neale meant when he quoted Shaw. I just thought I would look at Shaw’s idea from a different angle.

    I cannot forget the earth and the natural world…it is in my dna. The earth itself URGENTLY needs, more than anything, love from us, and responds to it. Fear is not a practical response to natural disasters. Love the earth (actually feel love for it, be grateful for it and for its gifts) and humanity might survive the next few decades.

    • Craig

      Partially agree. Raphael. The unreasonable man sees what is wrong and tries to fix it, the reasonable shrugs his shoulders… Tomorrow’s another day.

      • Raphael

        That’s an other way of looking at it, assuming that there is something wrong with nature that needs “fixing”. I do not share this opinion.

        • Jethro

          Nature takes care of itself, it’s going to kill many of us if we keep attacking.

          • Kristen

            Hi Jethro
            Do you think at all along the lines of the new age thinking of Mother Nature or Gaia, ie Earth having it own almost personal energy? Just curious.

          • Jethro

            No. Earth, just like the rest of the universe does what it does. Everything is moving and we call all that movement energy. Humans have assigned that energy a name, different names in some cultures. The sun, the earth, the moon, the atmosphere, the ocean, volcanos, and we give the whole as the universe a name for the sake of analogy. We have divided the human experience into three parts of mind body and soul. All of these names given as analogies to help explain something. All of it together is just nature. I referred to nature as itself for the purpose of separating humans from nature. I have done that because humans are not existing to exist with everything else, we have separated ourselves and are damaging everything else in our greed and desires.
            We think for some reason we do not have enough of something here on earth and we are now trying to get away from the earth to get stuff from other places. To destroy and dismantle another part of the universe. Every time we travel these days, not on foot, we start a fire to get to where we want to go. Plains, trains, automobiles, rockets, all of them spewing heat and gasses that nature would not have made and now we wish to start fires somewhere else. We are burning up the earth and ending it all with fire.
            We are creating false prosperity and thanking a God for it without understanding that we are changing that which God/Nature has provided and now we are seeing the consequences of our manipulation. Nobody should have been thanking God as they have blessed their own damning actions and continue to call it good.
            As for Neale’ words… I have stated in the past that I do not agree with everything, but I deeply enjoy the way he has expressed his thoughts in his books. Is there possibly something we don’t understand about God? Is it possible that all of us could be wrong about all of this? Few if any do not believe that they might be thinking improperly about it all, but the question remains.

          • Kristen

            Thanks, I was just curious, Gaia worship is going to be the next ‘in thing’ I think.

          • Jethro

            I know nothing about it yet. Like I said, people need to apply a God name and follow old rules in order for something to make sense. Keeping in line with nature is not a religion, new rules must be followed to correct a new problem if the problem can be corrected. I hope they find a God that tells them to put out all the fires. But of course they would go over the top with it and everyone would freeze to death.

          • Raphael

            You hit the nail on the head…unintelligent people need rules, they cannot figure things out for themselves. Everything then becomes an ideology or a dogma, a rigid system, indeed. Loving the earth becomes worship and a new age religion, when it should simply mean loving all life, loving, naturally honoring and respecting all of the natural creation, as any truly feeling and intelligent creature would.

          • Craig

            Well explained thank you Jethro.
            I think we misunderstand God because we think he is Greek. Mind over matter. When in fact it is mind to understanding matter so that matter can serve and we can enjoy. When I look at the aged basting in the sun. I think about how much time we were told stay out of the sun… Seems like life lesson one is be like a reptile absorb the sun so that it can really energize you. Not eat vit ABC etc.

          • Jethro

            Part of our survival is to work. A shelter is for survival as needed, not to stay in 100% of the time. We get our time in the light if living right. Gardening is exercise, healthier eating, and plenty of vitamin D absorption. absurd is having to make time to lay in the sun. Choosing the proper clothing without concern for wanting to show ourselves makes a difference too.

        • Kristen

          It does need fixing….how dare this planet inconvenience me? Or animals, birds and other people for that matter? It needs to learn its place, lets drill down and steal all the water, oil and gas to teach it a lesson in who’s the real boss! Or is it just others that can decide that and not me?
          Damn.

          • Raphael

            Now you are takin’. Damn. Let’s squeeze this planet like a lemon, and throw it away when we are done…and start over on a new rock in space. That’s the agenda.

          • Kristen

            Exactly….although we have lots of Asian and Indian immigrants here, who have sort of done that!
            Thats all just science!!!

      • AKA Patrick

        I’m a reasonable man, but I hardly shrug my shoulders. As a teacher (like Neale), I don’t wish to see us undergo another Atlantis-type cataclysm.

        • Craig

          Accepted that reasonable and unreasonable in the quoted context does not refer to doing nothing or postponing. Or should I rather phrase this patience is a virtue will impatience makes life a race. As Raphael says nature needs no fixing only people’s interactions with it does….

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Since we’re tweaking words, there’s something I rewrote when I was in either Junior High or High School. “The grateful will not only inherit the Earth, but It will love them back.” (Never was all that “meek” in my thinking.)

      • Raphael

        That’s great Annie, I love it and so true!

  • I’m not sure how others see it. My current understanding is that all conscious beings, societies, cultures go through this thing called evolution from early primitive ape like man to the eventual advanced society and people.

    The ET’s in Lisette Larkins book who she claims are enlightened (HEB’s in CwG lingo) also went through all the same crap our world is going through & it took blowing themselves up twice before they finally got it. Apparently, it seems we’ve blown ourselves up before and are on our second round of getting it right before we blow ourselves uP again. Hopefully that does not happen!

    It’s somehow reassuring to me, to know that this is part of how this edge of the physical universe works. That we are not alone in being in the position we are in, that all worlds so to speak go through this same process.

    I’m sure there are places that advanced much quicker than we are on earth and others less so.

    Now it’s a matter of how we conduct ourselves as individuals and next as a collective. I feel CwG gives us great tools to do just that.

    As Neale points out in the blog. We have many problems/issues etc. We have made some great progress for sure! Great, but we don’t stop there, we continue to improve and advance as best we can. And what we have now is the best we can do. If we knew better we’d do better, and when we know better we will do better.

  • Jethro

    I have spent my days in the past three weeks with a person who doesn’t see the world as I see the world. Everything to me is a dimension, a straight line or crooked, level or not, parallel or not, loose, forgivable, manipulatable, all skills are to be judged. Everything has a reason, a definition. Life is about solving problems… my life is spent solving problems for people and I am good at it. “Anyone can do what I do” I’ve always said, and I maintain that. The next few weeks are going to be trying to my nerves and patience, but that person is going to learn if it kills him. He will know he is intelligent and good and worthy and then he will prove it because I proved it to him. No person is lesser than and no person is boss

    We are human. Our experiences define us and each person has had a different experience. Those who have shared an experience, experienced it differently due to their own personal past experiences. Human thought in all it’s majesty is rarely accepted entirely by another human who is of course thinking. We are blessed to have each other!!

    ““What is the point of human life? Does it have a point?”
    “Is it simply, and nothing more than, an expression of a biological entity that begins in utero and ends at death?”
    No. Life is much more than that. It is an eternal expression of a singular spiritual entity that has no beginning and no end.””
    No beginning and no end… I cannot give argument to this as I do not know and I have had no experiences that tell me it’s true or false, so I will accept it as possible. My biological form did start at birth and it will end at death and everything between shall be an expression of a singular spiritual entity who’s expressions shall be in consideration of all life yet mostly other singular spiritual entities, while doing my best to be the next grandest version of the greatest vision ever I held about Who I am. That is my current point of my life. Every person will have their own point and because we do, our points will change as we progress through life.

    • Kristen

      Im smiling…..boy you’re glad Im not your employee or co worker. I think the opposite to your first paragraph description. I define nothing, I just wake up, look at my phone to see what day it is, then go to work and do what I feel like doing. Everything is done before its due…generally three minutes! A line is a line, I wouldnt even try to define it. If I told you I needed a perfectly straight vertical line, 30cm long, and you drew me an angled or even horizontal crooked line with your tongue, Id just laugh and say a line is a line.
      Its dinner time because the world says its dinner time….so Im having dinner….two cream donuts. I might have asparagus for a midnight snack.
      Just examples, but for a word loving literal person, words that define are probably verbal or written words, in life they just dont matter other than a cake looking as it should. The more I ‘progress’ and the older I get, the more laid back I get…reverse OCD, not much matters. Food is fuel, does it matter what or when we eat? Does it matter our religion or teachings as long as we believe in the truth, that there are Gods, souls or whatever in existance? Does it matter what or who we are? One word covers it all…human.
      But the funny thing is, I think I would look at you like I was a moron if you were positive as you are with the new guy….Id say ‘you bought my time off me, just freaken tell me what to do, and Ill damn well do it the most cost effective, efficient way I can, you’re the boss, bark orders, Ill work, and remember Im here to get paid’.
      xx

      • Jethro

        My worker is doing fine. I give instruction and he follows as it should be. Lacking in experience of course but it will come, for both of us. My problem is not in my apprentice, he is doing fine, He is doing great. My problem is with myself. Will I teach him correctly, with patience and with good direction. His interest is astounding, he is driven to learn which is rare around here. I hope to do him justice. I am no boss, I am a teacher, because a great employee does not need a boss, they need good instruction. he will soon see the world as I do, that is, he will see the lines and dimensions and recognize center as fast, it doesn’t come naturally. Nothing does. Our past experience defines us and not everyone’s past experience has set them up to do what I have been doing all my life. It has taken me a long time to realize not everyone can do what I do. Anymore than I could step in the bakery and do what you do as efficiently, skills must be acquired. A line is a line… until your putting it on a cake… I trust!!

        • Kristen

          Isnt it nuts the skills we aquire that become a no brainer we could do with half a brain, no ears and crosseyed?
          Yjat always astounds me, how different people have a different ‘auto pilot’ mode.

          • Jethro

            I, like you, get lost in a song when work gets a bit straining, even when not. I am a plumber by trade but have accepted many jobs that are not plumbing such as a house that I recently raised 4″ and replaced the joists and subfloor that had rotted away, some of it termite damage. No auto pilot on that job. Plumbing? yes. It’s all repetition anymore. Few skilled workers in this area. I am still trying to decide if it’s a blessing or a curse some days… I usually reason it out to a blessing.

          • Kristen

            My house is a raised house, one storey to two. Go figure? Surely its cheaper and more logical to build up!
            I try to psyche myself out into convincing myself everything is a blessing as well. I just got in from work at about 9pm, and have a 7am start, working all day tomorrow so it will take some convincing, but hey, Im sure the shop landlord will appreciate how knackered I am and how hard Ive worked this week when it all ends up in his pocket on Tuesday!

          • Jethro

            I have had a great amount of help. An older gentleman in his 80’s with failing health has donated a building and property that my be my shop and office sometime soon. It pays to be unselfish and helpful to all people. This guy that I help along with his wife is known for being extremely greedy. I have shown him kindness and I don’t see the greed towards me but have heard him be greedy in conversation. He owns my house too. I will have the deed in about 5 months. He knocked 8000 dollars off of the agreed price. Kindness given gets reflected. Neale has stated so much.

          • Raphael

            “Kindness given gets reflected”.

            Could you please remind my ex wife? Ha ha…yes, ideally that’s how it works. However not always. Love doesn’t conquer all, if it did, Gandhi, MLK, and all the saints in the world wouldn’t have ended the way they did, in martyrdom. People who have sociopathic or psychopathic tendencies, or any other kind of mental disorder, or bullies, perceive kindness to be a weakness, and only respect force. That’s sad.

            I used to think love conquered all by the way.

          • Craig

            Maybe the secret is learning what Ex means. If there is still a connection it is not an ex but rather a burden. Pruning is needed on your side. I tried it some 25 years ago it works…
            You can always be kind to a person not to a situation. Treat ex as you treat me and you are light years ahead…

          • Raphael

            Thank you for the advice…there is no connection, just a clever and underhanded manipulation of the law in her favor, on her part. Have you noticed that marriage is the only contract people sign without reading the terms at all (except for the very wealthy who are advised by lawyers 24/7)? They then discover the terms, which are very fuzzy and can be manipulated by sly lawyers, upon divorce. How irrational is that?
            Marriage is not actually between 2 people, but between 3 entities: 2 people and the state, and the state gets to decide, in a manner that is completely unConstitutional, the terms of separation, and to deal with divorce as if it were a crime. This goes back to Judeo-Christianity, which initially created these divorce laws in the 14th century to discourage people from separating, and punish those who did.

            So, what is the purpose of life? One of them is: avoid marriage at all costs!

          • Kristen

            Man made Judeo-Christianity…God states that a man can give a female a writ of divorce plus al, the terms for who should financially support who! It’s Yshua was was anti divorce.

          • Craig

            I think it is this mentality that makes men believe they have power. The complete understanding of scriptural records is man in charge. But no one read what scripture referred to as man. Giving direction counseling and uplifting that is man. Setting boundaries supporting and caring for that is mannin. Woman well that was when male felt the only need for a mannin is in the wow factor…
            So scriptural understanding is about relation forming not relation purpose…

          • Kristen

            God was very pro woman in general, telling men to be good husbands, saying woman to sell beautiful embroidered clothes to Egyptians then use the profits for vineyards ie be land owners, and a lot. There is also lot about God giving beauty and adorning females in fibe clothes and jewels, and it thrown in His face when they rejected him.
            Kabbalic teachers dont generally take on female students, I was lucky to be offered teaching, because they say females are already as females are meant to be when the environment is right, but males in general still need teaching, learn understanding and how to be a man, and are still a work in progress. In general because of the way society has been teaching them wrong. Male dominance is about nothing other than being a size bigger, like all other bullying. If men were shorter than females it would have been the other way around, that I think would actually be worse. We are far more manipulating, I wouldnt want females to be the bigger and taller of the two genders.
            God made woman, liked it so made another. He was about to say His classic line of ‘that is good’ then looked down and saw he still had a spare part in the box. “Oh well”, He said, and just threw it randomly, where it landed would be where it could stay. And thus, the penis and man brain was born!

          • Raphael

            Both men and women are work in progress…believe me. There are some differences in the male and female psyche, and yes many men are taught, by their backward cultures, a form of masculinity that is toxic (dominance, control, perpetuating the patriarchy), but women are not as innocent as many are led to believe. The fact is, we are mirror reflections of each other.

            when I was a teenager I was very naive: I was not aware that there was a serious war of the sexes going on. I thought everyone just wanted and needed love. I came to the battlefield unprepared. I have since learnt that that many people want to struggle and overcome…they have a ton of bones to pick, they have a neurotic compulsion to fight and yes, to dominate, to be in control, even females. Had I known this, I would have become a monk.

          • Kristen

            Exactly…which is why I said I would hate a female dominated world. We have a manipulative streak that males dont, that could be incredibly toxic.
            You should join a ‘monkery’, never too late!
            Im assuming since nuns live in a nunnery that monks can live in a monkery if they want to.

          • Raphael

            I would never join anything…I am a lone wolf. I will be my own mocking monkey in my own monkery…
            No one should dominate anyone. Males are not meant to dominate but to use their strength to protect when necessary. They confuse protection with domination.
            Women dominate children, and use their strength over their own children to abuse them, more so than men according to US and UK statistics.
            Are we all a bunch of apes?

          • Craig

            You do have a lot against the poor first created incomplete creation…

          • Kristen

            ‘Adam and Eve’ are my gggggggggggggggggreat grand parents, and I love them, as with every generation, faults, wrong choices, uninformed decisions, and all.
            Or if you meant males….nope. I like males, most males, its females I struggle with, they’re downright odd. Males are like children, easy to understand with a little time, and much more fun.

          • Craig

            Because you just need to ring their bell… Eve done that got herself pregnant and the rest is history. Careful of what we ask for just niwcwe get it and the find out it’s all only on the outside. Empty on the inside useless carton to be tossed away after use…

          • Kristen

            Nope, I dont think that about guys at all and would say its much easier for a guy to ring a girls bell than the other way around. Girls give sex to get love, guys give love to get sex. And so much of female behaviour and the way they dress, revolves around wanting male attention, any male attention unfortunately. They fail to realise a guy may just want affection himself or sex, whether its her or the girl across the room.
            Males are so deep, that they come across as frivilious or a bit moronic. Females tend to just throw themselves into life in general and chat, but when males rarely have opinions or make decisions, its very carefully processed and thought through. I was talking to someone once who wanted to marry but he didnt propose even though living together. My response, although I didnt vocalise it was that for a guy its a HUGE decision, he needs to make it alone, its his and his only to make. The upside is if he does propose, that was a decision 5 years in the making, he really truly means it. Guys will generally fit in with plans, including often shunted to the side when kids are born, like he no longer has a wife for quality time, and can be reduced to just the breadwinner and guy who does all the outside chores. Then females wonder why they drink, go out with mates or up and leave. So with all the things swirling in his life, generally around everyone other than him, occasionally he will vocalise what HE wants to do, and I listen. And know when he says no, he means no, or makes any decision, that hes taken a long time to reach that decision rather than females who make 20 small ones every day.
            Im more supportive of males than females, and dont agree about the empty carton at all. A wish is a dream the heart makes (Cinderella), so what we perceive as wishes are more often than not, just a frivilious want, and thats fine. Sometimes we just want the outside looks for a shortterm fling, and thats ok. I believe everyone will look and dress exactly how they are, people are easy to read visually so we cant really go wrong. Id generally prefer the perfectly folded natural carton than the fancy one all tied up pretty.

          • Craig

            So I must be a woman in a male body. I decide and do without considering consequences and then deal with whatever comes out of the decision. I hate it when people ask for time to consider a request it is clear yes or no not maybe. Once I have the answer I proceed… Kate Smith may have had it right. When men get depressed they invade a country and conquer another woman. When women get depressed they eat . Simple and uncomplicated the woman seem to be…
            It’s all these countries and women that make men’s life complicated.

          • Kristen

            Nope, androgenous or evolved people are half and half male/frmale thinking, thats the ideal. Most in here think androgenous, thats how douls are meant to be, its brains and bodies that differ.
            Ive never been depressed, but hardly eat anyway.
            Ill agree with you that women make mens lives complicated. Because our lives arent how theyre meant to be.

          • Jethro

            “women make men’s lives complicated. Because our lives aren’t how they’re meant to be.”…. Huh? pretty much an equal amount of “aren’t” going on there. Think it could be a problem with expectations. It’s the first part of every screw up. No expectation, no disappointment.

          • Kristen

            Hi ya.
            I meant ‘our lives’ in the context of how society, bills and everything has made our lives now.
            If people look to the inner core of what each gender honestly wants, which takes a lot of soul searching, then we’ll find that it all works when put in place, and we are perfect for the opposite gender.
            All the natural behavious, like young guys wanting to just hang out with mates at night around a fire, from hunter gatherer days ehen they guarded the cave, and so many females wishing they could work from home, men having more patience with kids and are the better parent of kids between 3 and 12 when kids want to ‘play’ with dad, be outside etc.

          • Jethro

            I don’t think one gender makes it any harder on the other. Life today has certainly made things a bit more complicated. Rolls are being switched. Each person should know themselves better as you have said with some soul searching so that they can be honest about who they are, but life has become so complicated that we hardly have time for that. I tried to get my kids to live alone for a couple years before getting married to know themselves better without parent rules. Our traditional rolls work out pretty good actually. Not that I would say it belongs that way across the board. Taking care of a home alone is a time consuming job, men should realize their part at home as well. Women should understand that children are capable of home responsibilities too rather than trying to do it all. I like the old farm rules when the whole family worked at home getting things together for survival and I dream of it. Those days are gone for many. Another important part of our relationships is having the judgements of our family and the interactions of possible spouses in both family settings which allows us to really see the other and how they grew up. Those days may be gone too. what family gets together anymore when the kids are old enough to date? Just more things that are out of whack in our current timeline.

          • Kristen

            I agree, especially about family farms, and dont think for one minute that housework etc is ‘womens work’, we just do it all as we’re made to do whatever we see needs doing, multi taskers, whereas males tend to take on the bigger things that take longer.
            My two boys are still at home, at 23 and 19, the eldest ones girlfriend has lived with us for a couple of years (crazy bi polar mother so she moved to our house while at Uni). Daughter just left home at 25, so we have lots of family get togethers once they’re past dating age…..its called dinner in the Restaurant of Mum, next to the Bank of Mum and the Laundry and Housecleaning Services of Mum! They have it too cruisy at home BUT all live downstairs while I get to hide upstairs. Thank God or I’d move out first! And we still had family Summer hols until 2 years ago although obviously friends are involved and they go away with mates as well.
            Its always good to observe anyone in a family environment, they cant fake anything, especially with siblings.

          • Jethro

            Women’s work lol, what is that anyway? I do everything my wife does at home and she has worked with me side by side for several years and doing great. I just happen to have more physical strength, which isn’t always needed. I think women’s work is just an insulting term for taking care of the home. It was a man who found it too hard to handle and didn’t wish to belittle his cushy factory job that coined the term. Mothers keep the world turning and I curse the one who doesn’t believe it. Everyman who marries, marries a version of his mother. I enjoy setting back and watching the family when we are all together. That’s a grandpa chore, overseeing the get togethers.

          • Kristen

            No idea what womens work is, I get to busy with boring housework, laundry and cooking to have time to even get my head around what it could be.
            Maybe Ill find out when kids leave home, the house stays spotless and I buy dinner everynight…perhaps its sampling wine, reading, shopping, thinking on the beach and the like!

          • Jethro

            I think your right! Sounds like a man’s idea of the purpose of life though.

          • Jethro

            “I love them, as with every generation, faults, wrong choices, uninformed decisions, and all.” I feel the same about the human race. No perfection, just loveable people because of it.

          • Raphael

            Why should anyone support another after a marriage ends? Contributing to the support of children is fair and just, but spousal support, especially when there are no children involved? Unless a person is physically or mentally handicapped, and even then, the state or blood relatives can step in.

            Spousal support was created centuries ago when women were considered (by the religious authorities who came up with the idea) incapable of supporting themselves, so they wouldn’t end up in the streets. Times have changed, yet divorce laws haven’t kept up with the idea of male-female equality, with the realization that women are not helpless children. After all, we are not longer hunting mammoths for a living, a woman can take care of herself today and often be more successful than a man.

          • Kristen

            In America. There is no such thing as spousal support here and never has been, thats the stupidest thing ever unless in the past, where a guy left a female through no fault of her own and needed time to get on her feet. Then its just basic principles.
            Weve always had a benefit system for anyone who cant support themselves, plus top ups if rent is too high and families with kids, where the househpld is supported by working, get a tax amount back fortnightly. Thats income based. The idea is to top everyone up to a liveable amount. If a family earns 50k a year, average here, and have two kids, they get back $120 a fortnight plus could get $$ towards rent or mortgage of $80 a week. Needless to say half the country needs top ups just to live, so we are now billions in debt!

          • Raphael

            Interesting…
            Yes America is very backward on so many levels, especially culturally.
            With my ex, it’s not that she can’t work, she just doesn’t want to. Why should she when she can milk me with the blessing of the state?
            When I met her, I saw so many red flags it was like fireworks…but, being stupid and helplessly romantic, I ignored them all. No regrets, just a lesson I had to learn, about myself.

          • Kristen

            Ive never heard of that…its actually the craziest thing Ive ever heard in my entire life. Id skip the country, there is no way Id support anyone else unless married. So how long does it last, two years or something?

          • Raphael

            It gets better…she can go back to court and keep getting more money if my income increases…and even if she remarries, she can keep collecting from me. There is no end to it because I was married 10 years.
            California has the worst divorce laws of the whole nation.
            I am seriously thinking about moving back to Canada, soon.

          • Kristen

            Im actually sitting here laughing, thats the most insane thing Ive heard in my life, now I can see how Trump got elected. Or erected!!!!

          • Raphael

            The stupidity is actually infinite. It’s difficult to imagine until you experience it in person, right here. I have to pinch myself every day, to check whether I am having a nightmare or have actually entered some episode of the twilight zone! You have no idea how widespread this insanity is…

          • Raphael

            Enjoy this one, and it’s not a joke, although you might fall on the floor laughing your head off: In California, you don’t have to be married for an ex to go after you for support…all you need is living together for a certain number of years, and for the ex to prove that she/he contributed to paying some household expenses. That’s it…spousal support just for living together!
            A comedy was made about this, and although it’s a comedy, the main facts aren’t fiction: the movie is called Love Stinks.

          • Kristen

            We’ve acknowledged living together, including gay couples, for more than two years like marriage BUT its not an automatic 50/50 split of assets, more to give next of kin rights etc.
            Thats freaken stupid… no wonder you’re opposed to marriage, and want to join the monkeyery. I couldnt live undervsuch stupid laws. How can you trust anyone? That completely undermines what marriage is about.
            An ex is an ex for a reason, and theres no need to ever have contact again unless you choose to stay friends or kids are involved. Money and the courts have no place in relationships. Heck, my ex had a house when I met him when I was just 20, and he 30. When I left 12 years later I only took half the profits we made on two houses we built, left him his original capital, plus his pension scheme and everything. I even paid off half our visa, my share. He earns 4x me, but only ever paid $1000 a month child support, dropped as each kid left school. I paid for private school, first cars, all holidays and supported them while studying etc. But hey, he did give SOME driving lessons…that was nice of him I thought! Maybe I should bill him for alimony when he retires in 5 years and gets that pension scheme that all our spare cash went into!
            How can females accept money from someone they arent with? No conscience in my view, its a system that encourages gold digging, deceit, greed and manipulaton.

          • Raphael

            Totally agree with everything you wrote…I am applying to renew my Canadian passport ha ha! Seriously, I have had it with this place…and especially now with the Trumpistas, the cultural climate is unhealthy to say the least.
            My ex has no conscience…she was born and bred in LA, a one time B movie wannabe actress, a sort of Michelle Pfieffer look alike. She thinks the entire world owes her just because she is breathing.

          • Kristen

            My reply fell off, I dont think I pressed post, if you got it…..well!

            That is the most insane thing Ive ever heard of, I had no idea. Id skip the country, there is no way Id support an ex, fork that. What a stupid law. How long is it in place? Two years or something?
            Butbdoes explain some American oddities, like why rich ugly men get wives for a start. It would never happen here. A divorce settlement would be it, 50/50 after two years with no pre nup. Child support is worked at 50% of a kids expenses, serms to be around $1000 a month for most with 2/3 kids. Anythjng above that can be agreed upon. If you divorce a billionaire, youre still legally only entitled to the same child support. It couldnt be fought in court as there is no law giving anyone ghe means to more than 50% of basic costs, and no spousal support laws.

          • Raphael

            In California, they have what they call the “living standard”…spousal support is meant not just to support an ex, but to do so in accordance with a living standard…so a billionaire might have to pay $50.000 a month to match the living standard.
            The so called justice system is very twisted in America. This nation is not what it wants to project to the outside world, it really reeks of stupidity, backwardness and plain lunacy. But mostly everything is about the dollars…everything here is about money.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            It’s no longer always true that spousal support goes from the man to the woman. My little brother got sole custody of his son, and child support payments. He didn’t ask for spousal support as he didn’t want to have anything to do with his first wife.

          • Kristen

            I love marriage BUT its a word for so much more, not a legal document.

          • Raphael

            People who like the marriage ceremony should just do the ceremony without the state involved, without the legal paperwork. Why would anyone need a contract when understanding the actual meanings of love and commitment? Isn’t the word of someone we love enough? And if not enough, why be with such a person? There is, in my view, a blatant contradiction in wanting a marriage contract.

          • Kristen

            We’re talking cross purposes. Im not a fan of weddings other than its nice to dress up for a party. The word marriage means man and woman living together, therefore man and wife. Its a biblical term, so I dont acknowledge the governments involvement in it. BUT I love people wearing wedding rings although not a jewellery person, and the words husband and wife, therefore I wouldnt stay in a relationship for more than say 2 years if we werent getting married. Its about the love, commitment, life and a lot more than the government or a wedding day.

          • Raphael

            I am confused…if a man and woman get officially (legally) married, isn’t the government involved? If one doesn’t want the government involved, why couldn’t they make their own form of ceremony to celebrate their union and commitment? Are their words not good enough, must they then have a government contract to seal the deal?

          • Kristen

            Governments GOT involved, its not their business, its a thing from Gods religion. Therefore I believe in just small commitment thing, acknowledging you are married in Gods eyes. The church and town hall just kept records, and that was it, and all it should be. But unfortunately you have to involve the govt just so you can use the words man and wife legally. When introducing people its so much nicer to say ‘this is my husband or wife’, rather than partner, girlfriend or boyfriend.
            I cant explain the difference, to me its a mental state of knowing someone loves you so much they are thinking ahead and committing to a future, and thats huge.
            Perhaps ask Jethro, he remarried so may be able to explain how different it ferls rather than just living together, I cant.

          • Raphael

            Agreed…
            So I take it that you wouldn’t like being introduced by your lesser half as his “main squeeze”?

          • Kristen

            Thats classy, I had a bene relationship for years (friends with benefits)…now thats an awkward one to introduce to people!

          • Raphael

            Yes awkward…but soon, people will say: “And let me introduce you to my robotic sex partner”, X0024….I got her at Walmart on sale…made in China, of course”.

          • Kristen

            Dont be stupid…..they’re made in Japan.
            You mean people have sex with them?…..WWWWOOOOWWWW!!!!!!
            I thought they were dress making mannequins, damn!
            Ill put your name down for one!
            I had to do a cake once of a blow up doll called Teilula, that a woman said her rather unfortunate looking 40 year old son (my words not hers) takes to parties and dances with as a joke. Erm….he needs help you niave woman, hes dating an ugly blow up doll and changes its clothes daily! She had no idea and thinks its a funny party thing he does!

          • Raphael

            I don’t know about the sex part (or parts), I just imagine. You are right, they are made in Japan. Japanese people work an average of 70 hours a week (seriously), so they have no time for human relationships.
            Put my name down for 3 or 4, might as well have variety, as long as they don’t fight…can robots get possessive? That’s a scary thought.

          • Kristen

            Sure, and stay in California….I want to be their lawyer when you ditch them, or they ditch you. Ill order Miss California for ya, high maintenance and only wears labels. Shes rather fake, like her boobs funnily enough, but theyre more to keep her afloat when you put her in a pool. And throw in Miss Russia, she’ll leave you after two years and take all your money. Miss Phillipines is always a hot favourite, great singer and comes with an annoying American accent. Shes good to answer the phone, years of experience in call centres. Then lastly Miss Naturele, I think you’ll quite like her. She has little knobs you turn to guage the length of armpit hair you like, shes rather feral, but incredibly popular for some reason only known to Northern Californians.

          • Raphael

            The Miss California you describe is actually Miss Southern California…And Miss Naturelle is Miss Northern California.
            Otherwise you are right on the money!

          • Kristen

            Youd know! Haha.

          • Craig

            I think Paul had the some feeling in CE 54 when he wrote to Corinth’s…
            That is the thing about law the one who argues it the best is right until someone argues it differently with a little more meaningless words….
            Kirsten says love is in the end. I have to toy with that as love is not a destination as a relationship. The concussion in love and marriage is the purpose of the relationship. I found sex not to be the goal as the body changes every day and if your goal does not change you will loose out..
            As for being right or wrong that is also changed with every interaction.
            Nope married for 30 years nearly committed murder a few times until I realized that I had to evolve with the changing life then time flew…

          • Kristen

            Hi Craig,
            I perhaps misworded, I meant I think its the ultimate at the end of the knowing ourselves journey, meaning remarriage and new relationships later rather than at 20. At that point I think we are more recptive to unconditional and know what we do and dont want, and can evolve good lives into great lives.

          • Jethro

            Yeah, If I only had a second chance at so many things!!

          • Kristen

            Mines a narcissist, very much like Patrick who was in here…always right, very smirky and smarmy, just a dick in general.
            Kids are finally old enough that he cant rant for hours upon end…heck, for years I got abused my using my hard earned $$$ to send my nerdy, pretty straight A student daughter to a private very small Christian school, away from all the skanks and players. She excelled with great friends, and got a scholarship to University…..and he still ranted about ‘that stupid Christian school of Jesus lovers’. Go figure, but thats narcissists for you.
            Now hes just identified at the Bank of Dad! His loss!
            You can be Jesus, I treat mine like the plain, overweight midde aged boring dick like he is…I just laugh in his face as he drives off in his late model BMW to his cloned sub division!

          • Jethro

            Anything with “ex” in it is the exception lol.
            Gandhi, MLK, and all the saints in the world, I don’t know about the saints actually, were all fuses on something that has exploded into something much larger. It was their love for something that meant something, not the love they received in return. Love given is given without desire for love in return. They fought for a cause of course and desired something, but they desired it for others and it’s still being strived for today. We keep bringing up their names because we know they did something awesome. Giving without expectation is love, Love given with expectations isn’t love at all, it’s manipulation and greed. I get what you are saying though, so I present you with another perspective. Twisted, yeah that’s a great description.

          • Raphael

            Yes I agree about unconditionally giving without an expectation of return in kind…otherwise love is just a form of commerce and motivated by selfishness.

          • Kristen

            Exes make great pets, everyone should have one!

          • Jethro

            So says the female…

          • Kristen

            Exactly!

          • Jethro

            LOL!

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Not all females! I always wanted to get as far away as possible, with one exception. She and I were friends first, for several years, and friends after, for a few years (until the testosterone really kicked in—female to male transgendered) and he started acting like an aggressive male. Of course, I managed to avoid “legal” marriage, even though I met the “common law” requirements more than once. I never wanted anything from them (except my stepsons), and would even change cities and states to make it harder to find me. But, then, having been around a master manipulator and narcissist, I fell for the familiarity…

            I’ve been single now for about 15 years. I miss having a roomie or best friend, but not the relationships.

          • Jethro

            Oh, I was just giving Kristen a hard time. She needed it! It’s in the code that nobody seen in her message… but I seen it.

            It’s always good to have friends, even if in a relationship with one.

          • Kristen

            I think love is best at the end of a journey and a period of being single…now I think it’s the cherry on the icing on the cake, and can conquer all. BECAUSE there isnt much left to conquer. Other than the last mysterious frontier in the song One Day. Ive told you before thats my fav song…cool score that tneyre playing at a vineyard conceet in Feb…sooooooooooooooo excited.

          • Kristen

            Thats so cool. I love the core of grumpy old men, they are probably my favourite personality type.

          • Jethro

            I get along very well with the older folks, always have. Very good friends to have.

          • Kristen

            Possibly because we’re nearly 50….practising!

          • Jethro

            You might be on to something there lol.

          • Raphael

            I do my work without a brain. I keep my brain in a jar by the window, so it can look at the birds and squirrels while I am working (it has a third eye, so it can see)…and I work while hanging upside from the ceiling, because just siting at my desk is so boring, I need the challenge.

          • Kristen

            A type of wierd almost OCD kicks in after about 7 years, our brains dort of dont notice the routine or auto pilot behaviours, so lots of people start questioning thrmselves, double checking the locked doors etc as you just dont remember doing it. I think its in place to make people crave change and want to move on from hunter gatherer days when they would have to move the ‘herd’ to find a new food supply. Most people want to change jobs and shift after 7 years.
            I actually like to work lying on my tummy, most customers dont mind that I decorated their cakes on the floor. I just say the crunchy bits, fluff and bits are a bonus and theyre lucky I dont charge extra.
            Whats a brain?

          • Raphael

            The seven years itch works in mysterious ways…for me, it takes less than 7 years. I can’t even stand living in the same house and town for too many years…I think that some of us are meant to be nomads, not sedentary…hunter gatherers, not farmers and shopkeepers…explorers, not workers.
            There is another fortune cookie thing somewhere in this paragraph. Can you find it?

          • Kristen

            Ill go with ‘some of us……..’ and make people work it out. My Nigerian laywer could of course charge a small fee to explain that its not an exclusive club, anyone can join, you just join by yourself at home!
            Hows that Professor Buddha?

            Ive been in my house and job for 14 years, and going nuts craving change.

      • Raphael

        I eat when I am hungry, sometimes just once a day, sometimes 4 times a day depending on whether I exert myself physically or not…I drink when I am thirsty, I sleep when I am tired even if in the middle of the day and I work when I want, day or night…but always meet my deadlines.

        I refuse to wear a watch, which in my view is a symbol of slavery and delusion.

        I am not cut to live in the civilized, regimented world. Free people are not…

        I understand Jethro’s point if view, to try to instill self-determination and initiative in his employees…but most employees have a different psychological make up. A lack of structure and instructions can confuses them, unless they already have an independent mindset, in which case they might already have their own business.

        • Jethro

          Independence in todays culture is a rare commodity. A self starting person who is driven and not afraid to ask questions is all I really need. The knowledge base of what I do is so broad that I don’t worry too much about training a competitor. It will take several years to just to learn the basics… I don’t give away my “old Indian tricks”.
          The only bad news so far is that I have become the lecturer that I use to despise, and I get the same blank stares that I used to give. When in the world did that happen!?! Might of been the counselor training, dig in an don’t shut up, until of course it looks like the right time to shut up. I’ve been called brutal recently.

        • Kristen

          Bottom paragraph, good point. Id want orders barked if an employee, but complete independance as self employed. I cant handle staff, they annoy me, I like working alone when I can.

          First paragraph…you eat when you’re hungry, drink when thirsty, sleep when tired……you astound me, that concept is so profound, you must be so ‘evolved’…..WOW. You should write fortune cookie things, whatever fortune cookies are!

          • Raphael

            I was merely trying to point out that most people live by the clock rather than following their actual needs. It must be an exceedingly profound concept, as most people miss it, apparently, and function like robots, even when having time off from work or vacationing.

            It seems that most people are bound so tight (like an old fashioned clock) that the only way they can relax a bit is by having a drink. Weird, if you ask me…

            It’s funny how independent people piss off the regimented folks, have you noticed? I have always been accused of “only doing what I want” by some family members, as if they were not doing exactly the same while claiming duty, self-righteousness and ultimately victimhood.

          • I too eat when hungry and sleep or rest when tired.

            I do adjust for social events and sometimes do things I don’t always desire to do because others want my presence or participation in an event. In doing so, I find I actually enjoy myself and if I don’t, I’m there for others. It’s not just about small me as an individual but a bigger me that includes others.

            I don’t worry much about being late for events if things happen to prevent me from being on time, as there is not much I can do about it, but keep my peace. This attitude has shown me that I can be late for an event and actually be early. That I can be late for an event and be right on time. And sometimes I’m simply late. Yet, the world still turns on it’s axis. I do try to be on time for such things but can’t control others or events outside of my individual influence.

            If we were only and always doing only what we desired and wanted, that too, can become a rigid dogma that can be detrimental to peace and flexibility.

          • Raphael

            I agree…
            In all decision that can affect others, I include them in the decision making and of course compromise. I am also very responsible concerning all commitment I make, large or small.
            But I claim the right to find my own happiness away from the beaten track, and this is what irks some family members, who are conformist and got caught in the mainstream stranglehold, as if someone had twisted their arms and had forced them to give up their dreams early in life.

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Except for those of us who worked within the system and were one day in trouble for it, and the next day praised. (There’s not really a way to start a business in Civil Engineering Tech/Supervisor work. It’s the government or nothing.) I was regularly called on to (sometimes secretly) work on “special projects” that we’re waaaay beyond my pay grade, then I guess I had to be “put back in my place” when they were finished. But then the next thing my boss’s boss was incapable of would come along, and I’d be called on once again. I never cared about getting credit for the work. I just hated being bored.

    • Craig

      If you find the recipe for ongoing performance please advise as I find myself repeating things after a pleasant month of adherence… Or am I just to pushy…

      • Jethro

        The recipe is internal, the only thing I put into it is caring. I have not found a way to get others to do that yet. They either care or they don’t.

        • Craig

          Jethro thank you. Attitude. How do we change an attitude that is manifested through a culture..

          • Jethro

            Same answer, Care about the change you wish for and make it happen. The only change you have complete control over is your own. A culture cannot be a culture without followers. To change a culture, you become a leader. not a boss or tyrant, a leader.

          • Craig

            Jethro with you on setting the example. Maybe my example is wrong I should investigate… Slow and steady wins the day… Craig not fast and furious. Will toy around with these absurd principles… Thank you.

          • Jethro

            Your personal example is only wrong if “you” find something wrong with it. You instinctively know what is wrong or right without being taught. Right? We all do.

          • Craig

            Making activity a rush that is my problem. Life is precious so I just want to get over with the activity to find another…

          • Jethro

            I can relate to that. I have slowed down my thoughts about it all. Every time I start rushing, I make mistakes and the activity requires more of my time. To start a project is to finish one. I have removed the deadlines and that has created better outcomes. The only thing we are racing with is anxiety. Our own or somebody elses.

          • Craig

            I accept my own. Midlife crisis some call it. Too much to do to little time to do it…

          • Kristen

            Id love a midlife crisis, unfortunately I dont have time for one!

          • Craig

            If that was my comment I would respond Craig you are living one without acknowledging it…
            You see midlife crisis is all about time running out. If you don’t have time that would imply you have a timeline problem…

          • AKA Patrick

            Why, pray tell?

          • Craig

            AKA that is what causes heart attacks our fear that we are not doing enough. Our fear for rejection. Our low self worth… These are the things that keep us from evolving….

          • AKA Patrick

            Amen, Jethro!

          • AKA Patrick

            This is somewhat akin to Neale’s LARGE headline stating that when a CULTURE believes it has nothing to do with the problems of the world, it CAN’T do anything ABOUT them Which is simply dumping responsibility for any part the individual might have in the given situation. That’s a little like the underlings in Herr Hitler’s regime: Oh, we’re not responsible for these atrocities; we were simply following orders. (Which actually amounted to, do it, or be killed yourself. Which amounts to FORCE. ILLEGAL FORCE.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Craig,

            This got rather longer than I expected when I first began to reply, but my passion took hold. It’s not meant as negativity about your comment so much as it is about the assumptions people tend to make. It’s certainly not meant to be taken personally. That being said…

            Being of German heritage (100%, or close to it), I have studied the German people both before and after Adolph Hitler appeared on the scene. I start my setting at the end of WWI, where the “winners” dictated to the “losers” what their country’s boundaries would be, and what reparations were required to be paid for their having lost. In WWI in Germany, an “agreement” was basically forced on the German Chancellor, which was dictated by the “winners” of that war.

            This “agreement” was designed to destroy the German economy, which it succeeded in doing. (This is when there was a huge influx of German migrants to America.) What Adolph Hitler was able to offer the people of Germany was, first and foremost an option to communism, and second much akin to “a chicken in every pot”–a promise to turn the economy of Germany around by ignoring the “agreement,” a promise to return many unemployed Germans back to earning a living wage, and a promise to revitalize Germany in the world’s eyes (what eventually turned into his “pure Aryan” promise).

            It was only after Adolph Hitler executed most of his communist rivals that his “Socialist Democratic” party really took hold, and what allowed him to take power away from the Chancellor, making himself “de Fuhrer,” or a dictator. But even that would not have happened had the people not been fed with propaganda about communisms and its evils, the evils of “foreigners,” and the promise to return the “Fatherland” to its former glory before its boundaries were redrawn by the winners of WWI. Adolph Hitler promised to return to a German state those lands where people of German heritage lived, outside of the “new” borders. This is why he moved on Austria and Poland first, because they had large native German communities.

            A majority of the German people were for Adolph Hitler, regardless of or on spite of his views on “rebuilding” an “Aryan nation.” He promised the people of Germany their pride back, that their economy would turn around, and that he would be their best leader because he had a “plan” for Germany and it’s neighbors, which was basically “Germany first.” (Sound familiar?)

            Yes, it ultimately became about the extermination of those he saw as “less than,” like the Jewish people, Gypsies, political enemies, homosexuals, and anyone else he felt like classifying as an “enemy of the State.” The jobs he primarily created were those that drove his war machine–whether in scientific technology, or manufacturing, or as foot soldiers.

            The return of Germany to “greatness” was eventually at the cost of the Souls of the German citizenry, who were too afraid to oppose him. By then, neighbors were snitching on neighbors, family members turning on other family members. and Nazis were turning in other Nazis–whether or not the allegations were true, when often they were not. If one didn’t file a complaint on a regular basis, one came under suspicion–whether civilian, part of the troops, or part of Adolph Hitler’s inner circle.

            My point is that how Adolph Hitler and the German citizenry are now depicted, on the other side of WWII and after exposure of his “final solution,” is not how he started. Many of the German citizenry, and even those in the Nazi army, had no clue that he even considered a “final solution to the Jewish problem” (which wasn’t just about Jewish peoples, but about anyone who opposed him or who he felt were less than the “ideal Aryan,” which he at first only shared with his inner circle, the SS).

            I’m not saying that Adolph Hitler wasn’t certifiably insane, or that the German army and the German citizenry didn’t turn a “blind eye” to the horrors he inflicted on anyone he saw as an enemy. A crematorium creates a noxious odor, so those citizens around the camps and those in the Germany army who ran them certainly had to at least wonder what was happening, and news from outside Germany and rumors within Germany were heard often. But, by then, the German army and citizenry were trapped in Adolph Hitler’s nightmare. By then, it really was “do or die.”

            I’m not trying to excuse Adolph Hitler, his inner circle, his loyal followers, or those that acquiesced in silence. But in the end, there were many who really were “just following orders” or turning others in, in order to save their own lives. What people don’t remember is that the ending of Adolph Hitler’s rule was very different from his beginning. People remember the ending–all the horrors of the extermination camps, the constant fear that there may be a knock on one’s own door in the middle of the night, the bizarre attraction he and Himmler had to the occult, and the fact that he escaped justice. What they don’t remember (beyond Valkyrie, which has been memorialized on film), is that there were dozens of attempts by Germans to kill Adolph Hitler.

            My question would be, what is the difference between the beginning of Adolph Hitler, with his warnings about communism and a failing economy, and the beginning of the Trump campaign, with it’s warnings about “the swamp” and a promise to “make America great again?”

            Trump has recently said that the man who was only inspired by IS, not a soldier of IS, who drove his car on a bike path, killing and maiming Americans in New York, should be sent to Gitmo. Then he said that maybe it was a “good thing” he would be tried with federal charges, which carry the death penalty. Anyone Trump deems a “terrorist” deserves death. Even before, however, he turned our country into an “us vs. them” mentality, or played on what was already there. He has vilified Muslims, North Koreans, Iraqis, Afghanis, Syrians, and more–and he does it much in the way of Adolph Hitler, making them appear to be subhuman.

            By contrast, what Neale promotes is the changing of the culture through the awakening of individuals to who they really are. He doesn’t negate individual power, but (at least the way I read him) asks us to enhance our ideas about our individuality. To expand our ideas about who we are, where we are, why we are where we are, and what we intend to do about it. It’s through this individual deepening and expanding awareness of who we are that the culture itself changes, because as each individual becomes awakened, they understand that, though unique and irreplaceable, they are part of something much larger than their “little me.”

            OK. Rant ended. My ancestors left Germany between the wars, when the economy was failing. I just get a little frustrated with the assumption that Adolph Hitler’s plans for Germany were clear to the German citizenry when he first started out, and see the similarities in our current narcissistic president and “de Fuhrer.”

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

  • Raphael

    I agree with Neale as to his assessment of the world…I would actually have a much longer list, and a lack of toilets would not be the first problem that would come to my mind.

    But I suppose we all have our own focus, and mine is the natural world. Without this natural world, there would be no humanity, at least not in this form, so logically we should think of the earth first, for the sake of our present populations and for the future generations.

    Unfortunately this is not how most people think. They see human problems, and seek to fix those exclusively, no matter what the cost to the natural world. I am not implying that Neale thinks this way…but many other people do, so this needs to be repeated.

    Humanity, while “in the flesh”, is a part and an expression of nature. It is not, and cannot be separate from the natural world, no matter how deluded it becomes while living within the confines of its artificial, toxic, polluted and highly neurotic environments.

    Human problems will never be solved without including nature…they will only be postponed by temporary solutions that will create more problems (as do medications, with their side effects that require more medications until a person takes 40 pills a day and ultimately dies of toxicity), because there is only one way to live correctly, and that is to be in harmony with nature.

    All else is mere survival and a postponement of the inevitable, when nature presents you with the consequences of your actions according to natural law, such as with global warming, with plastic islands floating in the middle of the ocean, or with the exhaustion of major underground aquifers worldwide.

    An alcoholic or drug addict can live many years while terribly abusing his own body…but eventually, the price for indulging in such self-destructive behavior must be paid. The body of the earth can take centuries of abuse…but let’s not this much greater tolerance to abuse fool any of us: the price for destructive, irresponsible behavior will be paid, not because “God” is angry, but because of natural law: you reap what you sow.

    Nature, in this sense, is not at all indifferent, on the contrary, it is the greatest teacher, because it cannot be cheated. You cannot lie your way out of a situation in the natural world. Nature teaches you honesty and responsibility…and rather fast when you live in the wilderness!

    The teaching has began. Civilization will collapse, worldwide, because it has, for centuries, worked against nature rather than with it. The mindset hasn’t changed, the ideas of dominion (which in primitive minds is translated as domination) and the fantasy of achieving power over nature, or beating nature into submission and making it our slave are still very much current, as our civilization is very clearly a perfect expression of the human ego rather than one of the human heart and soul: civilization seeks absolute control over that (nature) from which it perceives itself to be separate and consequently believes to be threatening (as does the ego).

    Indeed, to the civilized man, the wilderness (the outer and the inner wilderness, the untamed nature) is threatening.

    Toxicity begins in the mind, and finds its way into your bloodstream in the form of fire retardant chemicals or jet fuel. It begins in the mind that defines itself to be separate from nature, and that fails to understand that everything that you do to nature, you ultimately do to yourself.

    To the natural person, natural law is clear as day. But the civilized man will need to complete, over many years, a million dollars study to “prove” that whatever poison an industry pours into a river ends up in the ocean, in the fish that inhabits the ocean, and in the human who eats the fish.

    • Kristen

      Yip, toilets are sooooo overrated!
      Please dont tell us you’re a naturalist, and do those raindances naked? No wonder the fire gods struck back!!!
      Xx

      • Raphael

        Who needs toilets when we have Walmart on every block selling cr-p?

        No, not a naturalist…I care too much about the trees and don’t want to traumatize them. Have you ever had a tree mock you? It’s not pretty…not to mention when large rocks make jokes at your own expense and start rolling down the hill laughing their heads off (some people call this an earthquake but I know better, and I am sure you do as well…we are not awakened for nothin’).

        • Kristen

          Thank God! And yip, we know it all really works, I struggle with weeds growing so fast they can almost tackle me…boy weeds, or plants for a purpose and just weeds to humans as they call themselves, are nasty, tjey just have that dominant stubborn streak like all plants do. Every damn time I mow the lawns the weeds go feral and try to eat…or is that just my 50 foot venus fly trap?
          He can argue all he wants, we used to paint rocks as kids, so I KNOW rocks have heads and a sense of humour.

          • Raphael

            Weeds are very sneaky…they start growing like mad as soon as you turn your back. Then they trip you and giggle. We have 8 ft weeds here, I cut them with a chain saw, except when using dynamite. I was thinkin’ of trying a flame thrower, but for some strange reason the fire department does not approve.
            My neighbor shoots his weeds with a semi automatic assault riffle, the American way while waving old glory (no, I don’t mean his wife…I mean the starts and stripes) OK I made this up but doesn’t it sound real?
            One man’s weeds are another woman’s basket weaving material (Confucius uttered these words on his death bed, don’t ask me why).

          • Kristen

            He was a wise man for sure!
            My main weeds at the moment are huge lillies, theyre everywhere, its nuts after such a wet humid winter. They just sprout and grow a metre high. There must be a good dozen or so. Ill make one my profile pic, that shrouted in my vege garden on the deck…its rather impressive. Oops, its dark…another time!
            My finest weed crop is a huge toitoi, google it, I dont know what you call them, they grow on beach bank dune thingeys.
            We trim it with the hedge trimmer but its one of those nosy ones….it just grows and grows, comes in the upstairs bathroom window. Its a flax type, yip, great for weaving….if you have steel hands since its ‘cutty grass’, which could be Kiwi slang for weeds that rip your hands to shreds!
            Cool neighbour…are you sure he doesnt shoot the wife, while smoking weed wearing the stars and stripes?.
            I struggle with dynamite, can never get it right, we have to make our own. The damn cow wont fart the methane at the right time.

          • Raphael

            You have a nosy edge trimmer? Not good, especially if it is also prone to gossiping.
            Have you ever heard of Kudzu vines? Now there is a “weed” worthy of the name…it will literally make your entire house disappear (or your neighbor’s…sounds like an idea I might explore). But the root makes good starch…
            Hey these toe toe plants are nice and native to New Zealand, unlike the Pampa grass…which is considered an invasive weed (amazing what you can learn from a google search).

          • Kristen

            Yip, the freaken hedge trimmer and waterblaster are just so damn nosy. Thats why the never quite make it back to the shed and stay by the garage, just so damn nosy (nothing to do with my boys deciding the shed needed its own luxury deck, but two years later there are still no steps. I can do brick wall walking yoga and manouvres with empty arms, and jump down, but carrying the nosy toys back is pushing my luck).
            Toitois are nice……at the beach! Not in a garden by a path trying to slit your throat when you walk past, mines over 4m high. Hedgehogs live under it. Most introduced plants are defined as weeds here, and animals are pests! NZ had no animals 150 years ago, just birds, they were all bought here from England. Everything native is protected, and we have lots of little islands off NZ, some are designated bird sanctuaries. Google pukekos, I love them although Australian (never forgiveable), we have heaps in my area, as well as wild ducks. They like the ‘burbs’ but all have their own parks and ponds. Im coastal with stinky estuaries so lots of birds.
            Ill google Kudzu vines, I love vines, but have enough plants for ten houses, they breed like rabbits. When my house was built 40 years ago, some idiot thought one of each native tree would be a good idea. So I have trees 10m high that cant be removed as theyre natives. Plus Australian trees, huge bottle brushes, a macadamia etc. 12 massive trees on 750sq mtr section…go figure! But it feels like living in a forest, like I have no neighbours. Random wierdos going for walks probably enjoy the native experience of a huge rata pine with branches at face height across the sidewalk! Who wouldnt?

          • Raphael

            No don’t try the kudzu vines!…it would be a disaster…it’s considered a weapon of mass destruction here in California.
            I am planting 3 “tree of the gods” (deodar cedar, originally from the Himalayas) today…they are already 10 ft tall. I am creating my own forest.

  • Kristen

    My contribution is two poems, that call to everyone. The best poems are the ones put to music, in this case, Pink Floyd. Who is speaking (God, Earth, Jesus and Christs, The Universe? all of us?….who will answer? Who will try….and who will give up?

    HEY YOU
    Hey You
    Out there in the cold, getting lonely, getting old
    Can you feel me?
    Hey you
    Standing in the aisles, with itchy feet and fading smiles
    Can you feel me?
    Hey you
    Don’t help them to bury the light
    Don’t give in without a fight
    Hey you
    Out there on your own, sitting naked by the phone
    Would you touch me?
    Hey you
    With your ear against the wall, waiting for someone to call out
    Would you touch me?
    Hey you
    Would you help me to carry the stone?
    Open your heart, I’m coming home
    But it was only fantasy
    The wall was to high as you can see
    No matter how he tried he could not break free
    And the worms ate into his brain
    Hey you
    Out there on the road
    Always doing what you’re told
    Can you help me?
    Hey you
    Out there beyond the wall
    Breaking bottles in the hall
    Can you help me?
    Hey you
    Don’t tell me theres no help at all
    Together we stand
    Divided we fall

    WISH YOU WERE HERE
    So, so you think you can tell Heaven from Hell
    Blue skies from pain
    Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
    A smile from a veil?
    Do you think you can tell?
    Did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?
    Hot ashes for trees?
    Hot air for a cool breeze?
    Cold comfort for change?
    DID YOU EXCHANGE A WALK ON PART IN THE WAR
    FOR A LEAD ROLE IN A CAGE?
    Oh how I wish
    How I wish you were here
    We’re just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl
    Year after year
    Running over the same old ground
    What have we found?
    The same old fears.
    Wish you were here

    The images on youtube with triangles are great as the story of the human journey…life here on Earth is the trangle. The same as Neales interpretation of white light through a prism.

    • Raphael

      Great songs…!

      • Kristen

        Poems….just ones good enough to put to music.

  • Janine

    We all already know what is wrong with the world, and everyone wants to point their finger and blame. But the way I see it is that we are not going to change what we think is the cause if it is outside ourselves. It all comes down to “Love your neighbor as your self” and “Do unto others and you would have think them do unto you”. It makes no difference what your religious or political beliefs are for religion and politics will always be corrupt because they have a “we and them” perception. When people begin treating others with aspects of love: kindness, respect, compassion, understanding etc. no matter who they are or what they believe, only then will our world change for the better. We don’t have to do grandeosus things but little things like making a meal for a sick person, giving someone a ride who is walking down the street with an arm full of groceries, holding a door open for someone, visiting people at a nursing home….you get the picture. The only way to change the world is to change yourself. Michael Jackson had it right in his song Man in the Mirror. Money is not thr root of all evil, selfishness is.

    • AKA Patrick

      Even selfishness is but misuse of the abundance (of health, Life, energy, thought, etc)..

    • Raphael

      I do not think that “good” or “evil” (to use common terms) come exclusively from within ourselves or from the outer world. They originate from both the inner and the outer.

      So does change. We can change ourselves, and must. But we must also stop those who won’t change and who continue to destroy life, using force when necessary.

      If you think respect, kindness, compassion, understanding make that much of a difference, go ahead and show kindness and understanding to an ISIS member who is about to cut someone’s head off, or to a Louisiana jury and judge who are about to condemn a homeless black man to a life sentence in prison without the possibility of parole for selling $5 worth of marijuana to an undercover agent, and see how that works.

      I get what you are saying, but beware that nothing is that simple, if it were, the human world would have resolved its problems long ago.

      • Comedian and political commentator Bill Maher often says the democrats are too nice and they are people who bring knives to gun fights and that the dems should go low like the republicans in order to get back their political dominance. What are your thoughts on that?

        I wonder too, on a differ subject, if you can recommend any books that talk about the Native Americans life styes like sexual practices and resolving issues and day to day life. Also, the same for any of what we would call primitive tribes/cultures.

        • AKA Patrick

          I remember from a long time ago, a brief discussion about the fact that indigenous tribes respected tribal members who were gay. Apparently they were thought to have special psychological powers.

          • Raphael

            They were usually called “two spirits” and were respected for their unique gifts, such as extra sensory perception. A woman who took on the role of a male warrior could even lead a group of men, a revolutionary concept for the Euro-Americans who witnessed such events in the 18th and 19th centuries (they had apparently forgotten Joan of Arc).

          • I read an article where the Native Americans honored several types of sexual identity including transgender. I think there were 5 to 7 types. Don’t know where to locate the article, but I hope to run across it again.

        • Raphael

          On the subject of politics, I have a nagging suspicion that the American public is being played. It is not that the establishment Democrats are “too nice”, but that they have roughly the same agenda, except for a few social issues such as abortion and gay marriage. They consequently have, in partnership with Republicans, a “good cop bad cop” con act. Democrats sound very nice and smooth but do nothing to change the status quo. Republicans sound like thugs. Yet both serve and are equally loyal to Wall street, corporate control, neoliberalism, an imperialist foreign policy, and the total surveillance state. Bernie Sanders of course is different, not being a Democrat.

          On the other topic, I will get back to you in a few hours with book recommendations. I will only recommend books written or dictated by Native people. Nothing else is truly reliable.

        • Raphael

          I got the titles, a good start:
          -Seeker of Vision (it gives a very accurate and rich feel of the Native spirit). One of my favorites.
          -The Soul of the Indian (a classic written by someone who grew up the old way at the end of the 19th century)
          -The Lakota Way: Stories and Lessons for Living (focuses on the twelve core qualities that are crucial to the Lakota way of life–bravery, fortitude, generosity, wisdom, respect, honor, perseverance, love, humility, sacrifice, truth, and compassion).

          • Thank you Raphael, I copied and pasted your post and hope to eventually buy or check out these books where available. I very much look forward to reading them. 🙂

          • Raphael

            You are welcome Marko, I hope you enjoy them!

    • AKA Patrick

      Your selfishness comment makes me think of Foster Gamble (an heir to the Proctor and Gamble dynasty’s fortune) He did a documentary telling how he and his wife have spent a fortune determining exactly what all the world’s problems are. Then he wouldn’t spend any of his own money to fund the solutions. Go figure.

      • Kristen

        Hi ya..am I reading this wrong?
        Did you perhaps mean selflessness rather than selfishness?, or has Janine edited her post?

        • AKA Patrick

          Janine’s final sentence read: “Money is not the root of all evil; selfishness is…” That’s what I’m referring to.

          • Kristen

            Ahhhhh, thank you, now I can see it in context.

  • Spiritual_Annie

    COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC, but want to shout it out in joy: my doctor called Friday to let me know that I’ve finally finished jumping through all the hoops and he’s finished cutting his way through all of the red tape so that I will FINALLY be hearing from the neurosurgeon he’s referred me to, to set up an appointment! It’s only taken about two years, during which I’ve lost a lot of physical abilities, hopefully not permanently. I’ll still have to see if he’s willing to take on what’s now become a very complicated surgery, but it’s a HUGE step forward. If he’s not, he’s going to have to put me in a motorized scooter or wheelchair, which is what I’ve been trying to avoid. But I can be pretty darn persuasive, especially when it comes to life-altering situations. Meanwhile…

    Yeeeehaaaaaaaaaaa!

    • Kristen

      Yeeeèeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Since Patrick pays your medical insurance bills you should ask for a quad bike instead, then Biscuit can sit on the back! Worth a try, hes a generous guy!
      Xx

      • AKA Patrick

        Are you talking Patrick Gannon? He will pay her health bill? I sorta doubt that. (Maybe he can wave a magic wand and find a magical way for Science to pay for it.)

        • Spiritual_Annie

          Nah, he just believes his taxes are subsidizing it. He’s wrong, but it’s what he believes.

        • Kristen

          If you didnt read it, in his lovely farewell post to Neale, he said he had wasted enough time in here and had been offered a paid job writing so was taking it, since he has to work to pay Annies medical expenses.
          The lowest blow possible.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Pfffft… I laughed when I read it because it’s like the little kid who’s just gotta throw some silly insult over their shoulder after deciding to leave. That, or stick their tongue out at ya. Childish and wrong is all it was.

            So have you Googled to see where he’s writing yet?

          • Kristen

            Nope, this is really the only website I go on. I did ask him what ir was so we could be trolls, but he didnt reply.
            It was a nice tantrum…more honest than the usual one of saying the conversation was over!
            I liked Neales response…along the lines of of ok, good luck, see ya!
            If you see where he is, remember to ask for a quad bike rather than a motorised wheelchair. Its probably cheaper and since he lives rural he may have a spare!
            Xx

      • Spiritual_Annie

        You caught that, huh? I personally think it’s the Medicare premium, taken out of my check now for about 22+ years and is now well over $100/mo, plus the premium I pay to have a “Medicare Advantage Plan” that covers more than the mere minimum and without the $200 annual deductible, that would cover the cost of my surgery. But if Patrick wants to think he’s subsidizing my surgery… well, we had enough to argue about. And, the latest budget bills passed by both our Senate and House have HUUUUUGE cuts to Medicare. I hope to get the surgery before the budget is finalized.

    • Raphael

      Two years wait and a ton of red tape!…Wow! And they say the Universal Health Care System in Canada is inefficient…The American public is so propagandized!
      Anyway, I hope that you will get what you need…don’t forget to visualize a good outcome, the mind is powerful and your best ally!

      • Spiritual_Annie

        I’m also eating healthier foods and taking supplements. And since I’ve been visualizing being a nonsmoker, it would be the ideal time because smoking interferes with healing, as well. (I’ve had a couple of years to research how to prep for this surgery.) 🙂

  • Spiritual_Annie

    Raphael,

    I saw this quote and thought of you:

    “Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ‘crackpot’ than the stigma of conformity.”

    -Thomas J. Watson

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    • Raphael

      Thanks Annie…

    • AKA Patrick

      To put it simply: Be a KISS person: Keep it simple, stupid! Now don’t misunderstand me. I believe we all are children of God–meaning having been created by Him. We have the capacity to evolve, but haven’t done so as much as we could, because we get lost in this business of “making a living” (instead of a Life). WE are often our own worst enemy. So we put ourselves in the business of
      living lives of “quiet desperation” WE ALWAYS have to go inside to find the answers–not outside. Outside there is only confusion to be found. I have yet to find a human being who can explain how we got here in any other way than a human womb.

      • Spiritual_Annie

        I would agree that going inside is, for me, the most reliable way to find answers. I would not discount, however, those things that happen outside of ourselves. Sometimes it’s those “outside” things that drive us to start asking questions and seeking answers.

        Personally, I’ve never experienced “living a life of quiet desperation.” I’ve certainly felt despair at times in my life, but I simply don’t stay there long. It feels unnatural to me, so I look for ways to improve myself, or my circumstances, to bring me up out of despair. Sometimes that help comes from outside of myself in the form of a close friend, or a therapist, or a book I read. They help lead me inside to where the answers are. I bless those people and things that lead me to go within.

        As for how we got here, I would ask: Who created the human womb that birthed us into this physical existence? Or, for that matter, the egg and sperm that combined to start the process? Or the DNA that exists in each? Or the quarks and other quantum particles and fields that make up all of what we experience as physical? For myself, I can come up with no answer other than Divinity.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie