I don’t mind when people use the Bible as their Source and Authority on matters of spiritual consequence, but I do have a problem with people who use the Bible “buffet style,” choosing only those verses that suit their purpose or personal opinion, then ignoring anything and everything that does not—or that they think might make them, as staunch believers in the Bible, “look bad.”

The Rev. Tim Reed, pastor of First Baptist Church of Gravel Ridge in Jacksonville, Arkansas may not be a Buffet Bible Believer, but I would like to ask him some questions, just to make sure.

Rev. Reed was quoted in a news story the other day as saying that his church has no choice but to terminate its charter with Boy Scout Troop 542 because the Boy Scouts of America has lifted its ban on openly gay youths. Reed told one of the major television news networks that “it’s not a hate thing.” He said it is a “moral stance we must take as a Southern Baptist Church.”

The Christian minister was quoted by the network as saying: “God’s word explicitly says homosexuality is a choice, a sin.” Others likewise use “God’s word” as their authority in this matter, most often pointing to the Bible’s book of Leviticus at Chapter 18, Verse 22. As found in the King James Version that verse says: “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

Many Buffet Bible Believers also cite Leviticus 20:13, which offers this: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

And still others often point to 1 Corinthians 6:9, which says, “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind…”

Using the Bible in this way may seem to provide righteous authority to some Southern Baptist churches, most of which are predicted to end their charters with Scouting in the weeks ahead. That could amount to nearly 4,000 Boy Scout troops soon without a sponsor. Richard Land, head of the Southern Baptists’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, was quoted in the news story mentioned above as saying that “Southern Baptists are going to be leaving the Boy Scouts en masse.”

Okay. Now. Fair Question time. Which verses of the Bible should be operative in our lives if we are to live up to its moral injunctions, as the Southern Baptists feel that are doing in response to the Boy Scouts’ decision to admit gay youths?

Do you suppose it might be the verse in the Book of Deuteronomy where it says that if a man marries a woman and finds that she is not a virgin, and if her family cannot prove that she was a virgin before her marriage, “she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death”? Or perhaps it would be the verse that says that if found to be in an adulterous relationship, both the man and the woman are to be taken to the city gates and also stoned to death. (Before deciding, please keep in mind that if this were to be applied, some churches would have to stone to death their own ministers.)

Or perhaps it’s the verse that says that only certain people are welcome in God’s house of worship. If you happen to be a child born out of wedlock, or the great-great-great-grandchild of a person born out of wedlock, God says you may not set foot inside a church. The Bible makes this very clear. It says that no illegitimate child, “nor any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the Lord, even down to the tenth generation.”

And, did you know this? If a certain part of a man’s body happens to be injured in an accident or as a result of war, he may likewise not join with other worshippers of God in a House of the Lord. The Bible says: “If a man’s testicles are crushed or his penis is cut off, he may not be included in the assembly of the Lord.”

Yes, these are words right out of the Bible. Turn to Deuteronomy 23:1-2, New Living Translation. “Oh,” you might say, “one of those modern Bibles.” Yes. The King James Version has it this way: “He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord,” but it means the same thing.

And the Bible has some startling news for women who take some of those self-defense classes that are offered these days. They can find themselves in a lot of trouble because of some of what they might learn in those classes. The Bible says: “If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.”

God’s Word also provides us clear guidance on what to do about children who don’t obey their parents. These are probably not thoughts that many mothers would have—maybe even not Southern Baptist mothers, but we have no choice but to obey. As Rev. Reed would say, “God’s word explicitly tells us” how we are to respond. And what does God’s Word instruct us to do with rebellious children?

Kill them.

Now you might not believe that, but it’s right there, plain as day, and you can’t deny God’s Word: “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you.

I guess that would do it, all right…

So with respect, I ask you to excuse me, Pastor Reed, if I am not totally convinced that humanity’s infallible answers will be found in the Bible. You may not agree with all of the above verses, either. But if we are going to be Buffet Bible Believers, rather than a Literal Word of God Believer, then might you please tell us which verses of the Bible we are advised to ignore, and which we should apply to the letter?

Thank you, sir. That would be very helpful. We would not want to be called hypocrites for citing some verses of God’s Word when they support our personal prejudices, and ignoring others when they do not, now would we…?

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  • mewabe

    Most human beings seem to need to have enemies…someone to hate. It is difficult to understand. It seems to, once again, be a psychological need, a sickness.

    Once they have identified a type of person that they feel justified in hating because this person is different from the majority, they look for validation in so called holy books or teachings, traditions, etc, and usually find it, as prejudice is not new.

    If you look carefully, you will see that most human beings cannot live without “enemies”, whether it is an enemy nation or a minority. They have to define a group that is unlike them, and once they have identified this group, they unleash all their hatred upon them. It is a very strange process that makes about as much sense as if a majority of people with big feet decided to hate and oppress a minority of people with small feet.

    I do not think scriptures are the cause of it, I think this kind of madness predates all books and religious teachings.

    What these religious teachings do is validate a psychological illness. But this illness, this need to hate, seems to need an outlet, war being another channel.

    It seems that the only way humanity will ever be united is if an “alien” threat comes along…a common enemy that all human beings can hate and fear equally. This humanity isn’t yet ready to understand and accept the unifying power of love, it only seems to accept unity through fear and hate, as is implied in the slogan “united we stand”, meaning stand AGAINST the enemy.

    So, again, if the scriptures are not the origin of this problem, if they are only used to attempt to validate prejudice, then what is the problem, why can’t human beings get along, accepting and honoring their differences?

    Why is it that most of humanity believes that order, peace and unity can only be achieved through uniformity, through everyone being, thinking and acting the same?

    This belief in the need to conform to the group is the source of all oppressions and all conflicts. It contradict all we know about the human soul.

    • JOD

      This belief in the need to conform to the group is exactly why my son is having so many difficulties in school. He is intelligent beyond his years however he does not like writing things that don’t relate to him. He knows how to write and he can spell and form complex sentences but will not do anything when he feels commanded or ordered. If it is of no value to him he will not do the assignment. For this they punish him by trapping him in the principals office all day. I thank you for writing this as I have had a realization that the education system is oppressive and stifling. They do not accept nor do they honor the intelligence of the child. They discriminate against the child and pick on him and his parents to find fault with us yet they are the flawed ones.

      • mewabe

        Thank you Jod, yes I believe that unfortunately, much of the educational system is not meant to teach people to think but to, above all, train them to submit to authority and conform.

        We have to remember that most of the educational process is focused not on “growing” intelligent human beings but on manufacturing compliant, obedient workers. Workers do not need to think outside of a given parameter, they are only asked to perform.

        Under such a system even “professionals” become performing robots, trained in a very limited manner…which is why we end up with lawyers who can’t spell or doctors who know nothing about history, not to mention nutrition.

        Interestingly, the most imaginative, innovative and creative people I have met in my life were those who had the least education.

        I was the same as your son when in school…I did not do what was expected of me, I excelled where I wanted and did not put any effort in what to me was senseless (because of the way it was taught). Consequently some of my teachers hated me, because I was at the top of the class in certain disciplines and at the absolute bottom for others, and they could not change me.

        • JOD

          Thank you for your reply. You have really opened my eyes to why it is so difficult to talk to these so called professionals and why they ignore my creative ideas on how to help my son. I will try different language with them now, like ‘we are growing an intelligent mind here’ and ‘we need to think outside the box and come up with creative solutions’. Last week when I took my son to the beach he was telling me how smart he was, so I said maybe he should think about being a doctor and he says to me “Oh I would have to do something more creative than that like be an artist.” I will never forget the way he said that. Then later we were sitting by the beach and the water was coming in and he said hey how come we don’t see much of that rock anymore and I said its because the tide is coming in, so he asks how does the tide work does it go out on the other side when it comes up on this side, I said no it comes up on both sides , we were looking at a small island across the water, so he says that means the water goes around in a circle , well I was a little stumped and said well I think the currents do go around in a circle then I told him maybe he should be a marine biologist and he could learn all about the oceans and the sea life… I watched him closely as he looked with wonderment at the ocean and I was really curious to know what he was thinking of but didn’t want to interrupt his thoughts…he’s a brilliant child for sure!

          • mewabe

            Thank you Jod, I think you may end up having to take your son out of public schools and find a more creative and accelerated way of educating him…

            I remember being extremely bored and frustrated in school because I understood in 5 minutes what it took most of the other kids an hour to understand. I doodled a lot (I am now an artist). I looked totally “distracted”, but when a teacher asked me to repeat what he had just said, hoping to “catch” me off guard, I repeated word for word what he had said, and the teacher was vexed. I had my fun with them…

            I am just making a point…an intelligent kid is too quick, mentally, for the grind that average education represents. He could even get in trouble because of it, particularly towards the teen age years. God forbid he could be forced to take medications, and in some cases the parents have no say.

            There are few things more rewarding than stimulating a brilliant mind and watching it bloom and expand, freely and as it was meant to do…this is a gift to your son and to the world. Beware of public schools, as they can kill this process.

          • JOD

            You are so right. I was that quick in school too, I used to daydream alot and stare at the clock waiting for the bell to ring. I think of school as a big babysitting center because I am a single mom I need the break but I can see that school isn’t going to give him all that he needs and so I am looking at ways to give him what he needs in terms of education, maybe he will need an alternate program when he comes into his teen years. As far as medications go I have already told the school that NO WAY will I ever medicate him EVER. And the pediatrician I am seeing right now that I was forced to take him to, I will tell him the same thing, medications don’t grow the brain, good and proper nutrition does. As I watch all this go down I laugh at the teachers as I watch them wasting their time and energy battling with this boy. I tried to tell them that this kid will not do what he doesn’t want to do and can’t be forced but they don’t listen. Next year he will be in grade 3 and I plan to teach him how to use the computer to do his schoolwork on and that he can learn how to do artwork on the computer. I plan to get a laptop for him to use in class. I have told him about this plan and he thinks that would be super cool awesome and fun. And the teachers are going to have to accept this is the way it is , like the pediatrician said ‘what you see is what you get’. And this doctor is going to tell the school to stop punishing him for not getting work done and to get him a teacher assistant so just hoping at this point that we can get something worked out. Hoping but knowing how retarded they are, this child is my 3rd one so I have had a lot of experience dealing with this so called education system. In the past I was afraid or didn’t know how to stand up to them and advocate for my kids but now I will not be pushed about and tromped by them I will stand up for my son and get him what he needs.

          • mewabe

            Good for you, you are a great mother…

            I had the same problems in school. Eventually some teachers understood me and allowed me to tutor some other kids during class…I usually got what was explained right away, and got very frustrated having to wait for the rest of the class to get it for the next hour or so. I doodled a lot…now I am an artist 🙂

            I also worked only on what interested me, like your son…I got the very top grades in some classes and the absolute bottom in others, and drove my teachers crazy, but my parents had the same attitude as you do…they understood me. For college graduation, I learned everything I needed to learn within a week, graduated at the top not only of my school but of the entire region, and promptly forgot everything in which I had no interest. It was in and out of my brain within a week, as I don’t like to keep junk in there 🙂

            Keep offering stimulation for your son’s mind in what interests him…you are doing a great job!

    • Adrian Hindes

      People hate what they don’t understand. Because people fear what they don’t understand. People don’t understand other’s political, religious or worldly views, and they hate them. We fear the unknown so much, that’s why we’re afraid of the dark as young children, we fear the possibilities and the unknown. It’s a heavily biological thing, a trait humans have evolved to have. And it’s resulted in such a complex web of hate and contempt.

      • Christopher Toft

        Hello Adrian,
        I would see it as a partially biological thing in the sense of emotions evolving from simpler mammals. I do believe that humans have the power to pacify & control their fear & anger though.

        • Adrian Hindes

          That’s exactly the thing. If we lived our lives coming only from natural impulses, we’d live in a very cruel world. The mind and soul are there for balance (amongst other things of course).

          • Christopher Toft


  • Frankie Alfaro Barón

    The subject is touchy, but your words not only inspire to settle this down in such a way that the people really an understand a feeling of what is going on. Thank you for helping those who cannot speak at times.

  • Sally

    Perhaps it comes down to choosing either the God of love or the god of hate.

    There is also something about “love thy neighbor” and “forgiveness”. How do we choose whether to stone our neighbor to death or to love and forgive them? Which verse do we believe? Maybe this is it: we love them enough to stone them to death while we are forgiving them. Or maybe we love and forgive them…no that won’t work because we have to stone them to death. It’s all so very confusing. Do I love them or hate them. How can I tell? Do I know them by their “fruits”? Does that mean if they hate they are breeding hate and if they love they are breeding love?

    I choose the God of love. Hate hurts too much.

    • JOD

      If you also choose jesus he said to love your enemies and to pray for them. He also said not to go to church Mathew 5:5. If you do not forgive then your father in heaven may not forgive you. God is a loving and forgiving God. And remember stoning to death was not accepted by Jesus. He said , he who is without sin may cast the 1st stone

  • Mary

    Definitely great food for thought here… the angle you’ve taken,….:-)

  • Victor Lomas

    In Australia on radio few years ago
    they had discussions about different holy books and the writings in it.
    People were calling and making fun of what was written there.

    This was so popular that Australian Government made a Law to punish any person reading a Holy Book in public, unless they were licensed to do so by a religious institution.
    This was announced a few days after on the
    same radio stations that started the dissociations about the writings’ in Holy
    It was so obvious how stupid were instructions in our holy Books that the

    Church and the Government were embarrassed over it.
    It shows that we, the people, must not read Holy Books at all, for we do not know

    how to interpret it, or worst, we could be labelled as racist and prosecuted by our Government.
    It is interesting to note that many
    Australian Schools are run by the Religious Institutions who teach about God
    who loves people of preferred religion thus creating prejudice and racisms.
    All Governments and Religions teach this to
    people, then creates laws to punish as who believe it and live it?
    This is a madness of Primitive Blind
    teachers who create human characters in our children’s on planet earth today.

    • NealeDonaldWalsch

      Are you serious? What was the name of that program? There is really such a LAW in Australia? Can someone confirm this for me? Is there anyone out there who can quote this law to me, Chapter and Verse? I mean, tell me exactly what it says, where it is found, and what the punishments are?

      Are you KIDDING ME?

  • Lucy_HC1956

    I have seen SO much hatred in the past couple of years on here, from political views to personal ones, that truly? Sometimes I despair for humanity! I was raised RC and went to Church for many years….until I could no longer go. The idea of a hateful, frightening God became SO impossible to even contemplate…and those preaching it who had done the heinous deed’s they’d done, while telling ‘us’..the masses…how to live our lives, was a concept my heart and soul couldn’t accept any longer. I DO believe in God, even more so after having read your books, Neale….and I too, have been ‘touched’ by God. I have family members who go to Church…sometimes twice on Sundays…and come out and do THE total opposite of what has been spoken to them…also a Baptist Church…and it came to a point where I chose to leave all of it and walk away. My soul couldn’t bear the hatred and gossip and contempt anymore, so yes, it WAS a very difficult thing to do…but my thinking on it? If someone can’t accept ‘me’ as ‘me’….a person who tries to live life the best I can, and tell’s it like it is? Then, I concluded it was their loss and not mine….and a lot of it started when my nephew ‘came out!’….I supported him. And to them? That was a sin. The way I see it? Gay people have enough hatred and prejudice to contend with, as it is, and nobody ‘chooses’ which gender they’re attracted to. I always told my kid’s…”Who am I, to tell you whom to love?”
    I guess most parents don’t feel that way, but I do. And I was scorned because of it.
    I feel SO sorry for those children whose parents are basically teaching them to hate…the same as I pity children who are exposed daily to ‘guns’ and ‘rights’ and on and on…because in reality? Life is SO transient that we could be here one moment and gone the next! And I find people are over-reaching more and more these days, to try and ‘condone’ their OWN behaviour, and the Bible is quoted only by the passages that those people choose….
    I myself do NOT read the Bible anymore…to me? It’s an outdated book, written LONG after Jesus walked this Earth…yet when I tell people of YOUR writings they look at me as if to say…”You BELIEVE this guy?” And I smile at them and say…”Well, according to YOU, God spoke to Moses, etc. etc. etc. so what would make you think he wouldn’t speak to someone in THIS time and age?” And they can’t answer…because there IS no answer to that question.
    I just find it sad and contemptible that parents think they ‘own’ their children….nobody ‘own’s’ anyone….they are ‘loaned’ to us to raise and guide and do our best with, to prepare them on their path into the world…or at least, that’s MY belief. And this act by this Minister is atrocious. It is belittling to God. It is ‘presuming ownership’ over a congregation….and it is insulting and ignorant, to put it mildly. And it is showing those kid’s who are involved a very wrong example of how we should live our lives…in peace and love and acceptance.
    Thank you for the insightful piece you’ve written, and I truly believe as you do…people just can’t take what they ‘like’ from the Bible, without taking it ALL….and they won’t do that…because then, they may have to admit their misled beliefs….I only pray for a day when there is peace and people love and trust again and help each other…not when tragedy strikes, but EVERY day….because values today come and go, and there is very little ‘character’ and ‘honesty’ out there. It’s like people are waging a war within themselves, and lashing out at other’s because the other person has different views or beliefs. And we all know how war’s end….and if people were smart, they’d remember that not too long ago, how one started…when one man decided he was going to rule the world….and nearly wiped out a whole race in doing so. People CHOOSE to hate…so yes, it can be stopped, and I was once a Girl Guide Leader, and I remember how we tried to teach those kid’s the values of love and stewardship and respect. This Minister is doing the total opposite, and he’s not the one going to suffer the long term ramifications from it…those dear children are…and that is heart-breaking!
    God Bless, Neale…and thank you, again.

    • JOD

      well said and the one bible quote I like the most is Mathew 5:5 , Jesus said not to go to church but to go to your private room to pray. Not a very popular quote amongst the church crowd!

  • Rural Missy

    Neale, I have read all of your books and love the messages. I was raised Southern Baptist and still live in my very rural hometown. It is interesting that there is a Bible verse in the New Testament that names gluttony along with homosexuality in its list of horrific sins, and many SB pastors are overweight. There are men in the area who say that they were molested by SB pastors when they were little boys. Of course there are plenty who live by their interpretation of the Word to the best of their ability. It is seriously doubtful that you will change their minds on this issue, I’m sad to say, even though what you’ve written here is a fabulous example of buffet style believing. If only the parishioners would think for themselves…

  • Christopher Toft

    I am a 39 year old man who is just moving into living my highest truths about love. I’m at the beginning of a wonderful relationship with a wonderful man. One of the things that has really struck me in the last month is just how frightening non heterosexual orientation is the the majority of the worlds religious population. All the “controversy” surrounding same sex marriage in the UK has compelled me to look deeply into this religious prejudice against gays & lesbians. I have come to the conclusion that most religious people are extremely threatened by gays because the idea that there is more than one kind of love that is equal in sacredness and holiness to the love between a man & a woman, seems to these people to be a literal impossiblity- a nonsense, “PC twaddle” as we say over here. It cannot be so because this requires them to accept the notion that “God” did not create in the sense of designing beings to be “for” a particular way of being. Evolution teaches us that sex did not evolve “for” procreation, it evolved as a means of procreation. In other words our lives are not about what god wants. Our lives do not revolve around the wishes, needs & desires of a cosmic overlord and this is what the anti gay religious cannot bear. It makes a terrible sense to notice that for them, gay marriage undermines the meaning and purpose of heterosexual marriage because most religious people believe that their marriage is not about their love for each other, it is about doing what god wants. In the new spirituality,”god” is not a cosmic superbeing and our lives are “about” expressing the next grandest vision of who we are in each moment, so it is easier for us to accept “infinite love in infinite combinations” to paraphrase Star trek. Somebody on the WECCE website said to me recently that the most effective & profound way of dealing with prejudice & homophobia is to live a gay life fully & truthfully & i believe this is so. There is nothing so profound, nothing so subversive as compassion.

    • NealeDonaldWalsch

      Wow, I love your final sentence there. Good heavens, is that quotable, or what? I’m going to use it! Did someone “famous” say that? Or will you become “famous” for having said that? In either event, I love it. Tnx. Hugs…Neale.

      • Christopher Toft

        It came to me the other day Neale, i was so blown away by it I posted it on my Facebook page. Feel free to quote it left right & center. I will!:)

    • JOD

      When I was a kid growing up we raised animals for food. Ducks turkeys chickens etc. We had 2 males ducks who were in love with each other. They cared only for each other. They did not have sex with any other ducks males or females(and there were plenty of both to choose from). We also had a male cat who fell in love with a male duck. My parents are anti gay and religious but don’t go to church. A few years ago we were debating this topic and I said to them ‘Love is love , let them be honest about who they are.’ We need to encourage honesty and faithfulness in love no matter what ….if we do not then we are nothing but hypocrites! so be true to yourself and others regardless of the discrimination you might face…btw we kept the ducks as pets because it was so interesting to see this in nature, we even gave them names!

      • Christopher Toft

        Thank you for the support & encouragement JOD. most appreciated!

    • mewabe

      I like your last sentence too Christopher…I wrote a couple of years ago that tears are subversive. Real subversion comes with the opening of the heart…It’s a little different…but FEELING (compassion towards the self and towards others) is subversive and revolutionary in a non feeling, suppressive world indeed!

      • Christopher Toft

        Yeah we’re definitely on the same page here:)

  • J.S.

    You make a lot of sense, but I just can’t help but wonder…if this wasn’t about gays, would you even care at all about what Southern Baptists do?

    • Christopher Toft

      Speaking personally yes i would. I care because it affects me, it affects the world & it affects humanity when our beliefs about the world cause divisions, hatred and ignorance on all sides. I care because this divisive either or kind of thinking could very easily be the death of us.

    • NealeDonaldWalsch

      I care about what anybody and everybody does, and if it is not loving, accepting, and reflecting the highest idea of Who We Areas human beings, I seek to offer a counterpoint observation, that we might all raise our decisions and our choices. I shine the same mirror, by the way, on myself, every single hour of every single day. Thank you, J.S., for asking the question.

  • Awareness

    Very clear words. Thank you Neale Donald Walsch 🙂

  • Susanne Koch

    What are all those Old Testament quotes for? I was waiting ;o) for the New Testament ones… I definitely prefer the New Testament and it’s call for unconditional love and unity.

  • Kim Jones

    It’s good to see evidence finally that Neale has read “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins and perhaps shares some ground with the thinking there.

    • NealeDonaldWalsch

      Actually, I have not read a word that Mr. Dawkins has written, as it happens. Perhaps, as it has been said, “truth is truth, no matter what the source.”

      • JOD

        well they do say great minds think alike

  • Erin

    “Buffet Bible Believers”…LMAO!!! Nearly fell off my chair! 😀

  • Erin

    OMG! Next on the Agenda: “Girl Scouts sponsor the BSA with cookie profits!” “The ‘Rainbow Badge’ is created!” “Lesbian GS wins national box car race!” heehee!

  • Shaman Elizabeth

    How we cling to hate and separateness, yet Jesus came to teach one thing…Love. Love is all encompassing, love is united, nonjudgemental, forgiving.

  • Laszlo Egry

    Too much law very little love, does anyone understand grace?

  • Lisa Doyon

    Thanks Neale. God is loving and inclusive, not hateful, vengeful, and exclusive

  • Victor

    Of course, the origin of this madness is not in the ‘holy books’, the Bible, the Quran, or whatever… It’s just an ancient dissociation in human psyche that uses religion as validation. So, religion is just a reflection of our collective madness.

    Of course, once our collective neurosis has been there, religion is one of the most powerful sources for justifying, reproducing, spreading, and perpetuating this neurosis and madness. No matter very much if sometimes a great master or soul with great wisdom, compassion, and love arises here or there. The mainstream madness will swallow and digest his/her teachings transforming them in a renewed form of more madness.

    So, you find people in History claiming: “believe in Christ or die!”, as in Crusades, or for mentioning current times: “Jesus wants USA to go to war against Iraq”, as Bush told to anyone that hear him… The old: “God told me so”, used throughout History…

    So you see Jesus fagocitated, perverted by Old Testament in the Bible, by the teachings of Paul -Paul of Tarsis-, the Church Fathers and again, by the whole superstructure created in his name.

    For me, it’s just unbelievable how many people, the majority of the world, still believe in these dogmas. Dogmas that reinforce the madness and pathology of this world.

    One of the principle reasons for this, is one of the most relevant dogmas of all: the Holy book -whatever it is: the Bible, the Quran, the Book of Mormon, etc.- IS the ‘Word of God’. And for fundamentalists: “Every word, sentence, paragraph, every comma or sign in the Bible -or the Quran, etc.- IS ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT ANY FAIL, DOUBT, OR QUESTION, it is the complete, perfect, and ONLY WORD OF GOD, and our interpretation of it is the only one that is the ‘Truth’…

    So, if you observe a ‘god’ in the holy books that is ferocious, vengeful, neurotic, murderer, psychopath, schizophrenic -some times ‘loving’, some times full of anger and hatred-, a warlord that commits or commands genocide, and the killing of childrean and babies, so be it… The Bible -or whatever- tells me so…

    If we have a God of this kind, of course it is the perfect justification of anything in his ‘holy’ name…

    • mewabe

      “The mainstream madness will swallow and digest his/her teachings transforming them in a renewed form of more madness.”

      I think this is very true Victor…the best that can happen to anyone who has a message, is that his/her thoughts do not become mainstream, but remain limited to those with whom they truly resonate, and who can hopefully have a strong influence on the world.

      I have often wondered what would happen if Neale’s thoughts became mainstream…after he is no longer here to correct the potential distortions. The outcome could be as removed from Neale’s original intentions as any other message, because the majority would most likely do what it has always done: pick and choose certain thoughts and leave out the rest, and create a new dogma out of that which appears to validate its own preconceived notions rooted in neurosis, in fear, in dissociated perception, in emotional/psychological pathology.

      No matter how clearly one attempts to explain himself, to expend on her thoughts, to cover all grounds, group thinking (as opposed to individual thinking) is one of the most effective mechanism in grinding such thoughts into an often unrecognizable mess, something that is akin to the end product of the digestive process.

      When this end product is wrapped in “holiness” and becomes “higher law” or the foundation on which lay legal systems stand, it is very hard to flush from the global consciousness, for as you wrote Victor the masses have then found one of the best imaginable legitimation for they extended madness: “God said so”.

    • JOD

      Man wrote the bible… the only writings of God were the Ten Commandments he wrote in stone for Moses to give to the people that really is all we need to live by however there are 3 commandments not included in any bible but were founded in the Dead Sea Scrolls #11 THOU SHALT NOT MAKE WAR #12 THOU SHALT NOT BE ABSOLVED IN THE SINS OF THY LEADERS #13 THOU SHALT ALWAYS HELP THE NEEDY If we live by Gods laws how sane and peaceful the world would be. Really what we need is to have ONE WORLD RELIGION based on Gods laws alone!

  • Mike Brown

    I went to an evangelical church for a year. They had a really good music program for me to perform with professional quality equipment in services. The mega style churches never mention anything as controversial as homosexuality you had to ask directly. In my liberal canadian churches growing up I understood that the new testament teachings of Jesus were to transform the eye for an eye god of the old testament and other extreme vicious commandments of god . The United Church of canada liberal wing married gay couples years ago. One reason I left this evangelical church I attended was although I was good enough to perform for them for free I would forever have to hide a side of me in the closet. So southern baptists are just following the family tradition.

    Consider the Southern Baptist experience- from Wikapedia: In 1995, the Convention voted to adopt a resolution renouncing its racist roots and apologizing for its past defense of slavery, segregation, and white supremacism . So we’re moving on up

    to Jesus. Praise be !

    I believe at least buffet believers are doing some thinking. When my mother converted to catholicism I asked it she doesn’t believe in condoms or birth control now. She hadn’t changed anything and didn’t do anything other then listen to the pope and go to mass.

    According to Wikapedia there have been 2000 sex abuse charges prior to 1994 and one since in America and worldwide all kinds of them in scouting. They did create a youth protection program.

    so it couldn’t protect its own kids in a noble endeavor to grow character in kids in
    decades past and hasn’t grown to the point where it understand homosexuality is not
    a threat to their children.

    14 states still have anti sodomy laws a decade after they were declared unconstitutional. so everyones picking and chosing what to follow in the land of the free, the home of the brave.

  • 22 September 2012

    So God, what is your opinion on same-sex-relationships? Is it bad or good?

    It is neither bad nor good. It is what it is. You have viewed it as bad because it does not conform to your religious beliefs or scriptures. You are looking at it on the physical side. As in two bodies that are made the same weren’t meant to fit together. (Okay, I know what just went through your mind when I used the word “fit”) That is the problem right there. The bodies are just vessels for the soul or the spirit. Do you think your souls or spirits are made differently? Different components or elements that do not fit together? Please remember, you are all part of ONE. You are all part of ME. What could fit perfectly than that? Same sex relationships in fact are more profound. Two souls have met on a subconscious if not super-conscious level. Believe Me, these relationships will last longer. Divorce is prevalent now because most couples have only combined on a conscious level. Meaning, couples do not understand each other because they have not allowed their souls to meet or intertwine. Eventually all souls have only one destination. To come back to Me. Two souls connect in order to help each other make this journey. (There are souls that are able to go solo.) The sole purpose of souls is to fulfill Who They Really Are. If the journey is made with another soul, why not? To answer your question, I have no opinion whatsoever. It is what it is.

    • Christopher Toft

      Joy, greatly appreciate your open hearted point of view on this issue & i wish more of us thought as you do. you said: “Same sex relationships in fact are more profound. Two souls have met on a
      subconscious if not super-conscious level. Believe Me, these
      relationships will last longer.”

      This makes me feel sad. The way i see it, people are just people & any genuine love is as profound as any other, regardless of who has what & puts what where(Hope that’s not too risque Mods!). I am just beginning to live the truth of Neale’s teaching & one thing I am very clear on is that neither of us is perfect & that as with any relationship there will be friction between us, we will have “difficulties” because in my experience that is how life works.

      • You know what, Christopher, I’ve been thinking about my comment after I posted it. That “profound” part DID bother me. But upon reflection, I realized the deeper meaning of that aspect is that if more relationships would meet on a subconsious/superconscious level then there will be less lonely people in this world. I believe the only way to do that is to GO WITHIN. We have to meet our own soul on a subconscious/superconscious level before we can relate with others on the same level. Which in my opinion is the heart of Neale’s CWG. It’s cliched but what the heck–Life is what you make it. ^_^

        • Christopher Toft

          Well I’m in agreement with you here 100% joy!

  • mewabe

    Some things to consider:

    The old testament was directed to be used by a people who wanted their numbers increased…they wanted procreation. At the time, there were not 7 billion people in the world, and the Jews had suffered great losses and much hardship.

    Same sex couples do not procreate, so such sexual expression was condemned, in a rather fanatical manner (apparently also condemning bisexuality, although such individuals procreate).

    The Bible was written by men, and meant to create a PATRIARCHAL religion. Women were not trusted to be as fanatical and repressive, and their sexuality was suppressed as well, for centuries, as it was considered a “threat” to civilization (read Evil Sisters, this interesting book explains it).

    For a very long time in Christian nations, only “bad”, “fallen” girls were allowed to enjoy sex. A “proper” woman would only endure it, and only for the sake of procreation. Corsets and other instruments of torture were meant to keep the female body in armor.

    This makes sense, as much of what civilization is and represents (to this day) is the attempted SUPPRESSION of much of our human NATURE. The civilized mind still FEARS nature.

    Interestingly, many natural, wild animals engage in bisexual or homosexual activities. Are they a “mistake” God made? Are they under the influence of a “devil”? Will they go to “hell” for their “sins” or be “destroyed” as would a faulty artifact?

    • Christopher Toft

      Hi Mewabe,
      ” only “bad”, “fallen” girls were allowed to enjoy sex.”

      Oh I am “fallen”. I am so, so “fallen”;)

      “GOD IS NOT A PURITAN” That’s a fridge magnet that is!

      “Also, many wild animals engage in sex for pleasure or bonding only, rather than for procreation…will they too go to “hell”?”

      Indeed. I’ve come to think of myself as a Bonobo chimp. Bonobos as you probably know enjoy sex of all kinds just simply to express joy, passion & intimacy. Whether people procreate or not, I believe humans & Bonobos are very alike when it comes to sex.

      “Why is humanity having such a HUGE problem with sex (of any kind)?”

      An excellent question Mewabe. I’ve just been talking to my therapist about this & I’m pretty sure it’s because unfettered sexual expression requires deep intimacy & deep intimacy requires deep courage & love. Most relationships are of the “I trade you very much” variety & this implies two “incomplete” halves coming together to form a whole(Check out Robert Firestone’s book “the fantasy bond” if you’re interested.) True intimacy requires an honest declaration of the wholeness of both yourself & your partner. In most people’s minds, only god is whole, or there is no such thing as wholeness. That’s what I think anyway.

      • mewabe

        Thanks Christopher…

        Yes, the sexual experience is probably the one instance when a person’s mask falls and a more intimate and personal side of that person is revealed.

        And perhaps the human ego fears this…this nakedness that goes beyond the body’s nakedness and in sex temporarily strips the personality of its pretenses, of its social posturing and its persona, which literally means a mask, and by extension a role played by an actor on a stage.

        Perhaps it is because humans fear being true, being who they really are, that sex is such of problem with so many, because in or around sex, some form of truth usually comes out.

        Yes, we are not halves, we are whole, all of us, unless we believe we are not…and yes real intimacy requires great courage. Most people are not even intimate with themselves (they hide from their true selves, from the deeper truths of their own heart, which they fear), so they cannot be intimate and vulnerable with another, and many relationships are very superficial and a trade, not an intimate partnership.

        • Christopher Toft

          Agreed! Thanks for sharing!

  • Lindsey Lacker

    Most if those scriptures are quoted from the Old Testament. Fact: those were the laws and that IS how things were delt with. Stoning and killing. BUT, as you can see we had a savior die on the cross for our sins. When that happened a new way began. “The vail was torn” when Jesus died because HE died for us. Death is what we all deserve for our sins. All sin IS the same Gods eyes, only some carry a heavier consequence here on earth. No saved person can ever be perfect and none EVER claims to be. Just because someone says “Hey! What your doing us wrong!” Does not mean they themself don’t struggle with issues. And just because not any one of us is perfect does not mean we can not stand up and say that being gay or ANY other sin is wrong. It’s just the pride and less than humble attitude we all show on occasion when confronted with our bad choices. Being gay is a sin. It bleedes into others lives it tares down what God established as the family. So does divorce outside of adultery. My grandmother was beaten nearly everyday and stayed with him because she believed in marriage. Now she will struggle in this life but the reward in Heaven when she meets The Lord. She knows there is life beyond this one and is sowing seeds for then. Someone mentioned gluttony earlier… Just because someone is over weight does not mean they gourge themselves. I know that IS a sin. It carries a consequence. But your not shaking the orignal foundation with that. The family was established first. We should stand up and loves those who struggle but also humble ourselfs when our faults are pointed out. Does anyone REALLY think your going to go through life and live just however and nobody tell you that’s not good for you?? Your only kidding yourself. Stand for what is right and humble yourself when you are wrong. Hard to do… Pride has gotten the best of all of us and will many more times before we leave this world.
    But, understand this… There is a reason why we don’t stone and kill anymore for things. That is because Jesus made intersession for us. He died for us so that we can live. So all those “stoning quotes” can be laid to rest. We do not do that because we have Jesus blood to cover us. Those are the old laws before his death. So the buffet style Christian can take a deep breath! Most with biblical knowledge understand those were the old laws and not how God calls us to do things anymore. I would rethink this because your severely misleading people.

    • mewabe

      I am merely curious Lindsey, please don’t take offense…Being totally ignorant of the Judeo-Christian doctrine, I want to know.

      Can you actually explain, in rational terms, why a God would choose to sacrifice his “only son” to PAY for humanity’s “sins”? I mean, did humanity’s “sins” take something away from God, that he had to be paid back, and in the form of what looked like a human sacrifice, essentially?

      Why would someone or something have to bleed in order to compensate for or erase humanity’s “sins”?

      Are you aware of the original meaning of the word “sin”? It means “missing the right point”…in other words MAKING A MISTAKE. Do you really think, if you believe that some things that humanity does are indeed “mistakes”, that a God would kill his “only son” for mistakes? Would you kill your son when you think your daughter has made a mistake?

      The problem with believers is that they are only asked to believe. To any question asked, the answer is: read the Bible, and believe it. What they do not understand, they rationalize as the “mysterious ways and will of God”. I would love to hear YOUR thoughts.

      In my opinion we all have the right to personally believe what we want. We do not have the right to judge anyone, or to attempt to impose our beliefs on others.

      • Lindsey Lacker

        Christopher please post me a link to what you wrote! Or is it a comment on this page? I would love to read it. I can honestly say what I believe can not be shaken BUT I truly do try to understand other views. Even I I don’t agree I enjoy gaining understanding into what others believe! That’s why I normally don’t ever comment on what I read this just struck me because of the misrepresented information.

        Mewabe I am not ignoring your question but would like to make sure I think through my answer and communicate it thourly. Sometimes it hard to read something and see the persons heart. I will respond ASAP! And I am not at all offended!! 🙂

        • mewabe

          Thank you Lindsey, I added a paragraph…and a couple of sentences. Sorry to put you on the spot, I would be very interested in your answers. I will not go into a debate, I promise, I will just acknowledge and accept your answers and respect your worldview.

        • Christopher Toft

          Hello Lindsey,
          I think t boils down to a difference in our beliefs about God and Life. I believe difference in worldviews & opinions are profoundly healthy so that’s okay. It was a post on this page expressing my views about what I believe are the origins of why in mainstream Christianity(& Islam & Judaism) Homosexuality is considered a sin. It’s a big long post & starts with “I am a 39 year old man..” You can’t miss it;)

      • Victor

        Yes, it is my oppinion also that anyone has the right to believe in whatever, a stone, a stick, an animal, a star…

        But in terms of what a supreme, wise, almighty, loving deity would be, this biblical god is a joke.

        It would be a funny joke, it it wasn’t for the tragic consequences of that belief, in past times, but even NOW…

    • Christopher Toft

      Hello Lindsey, You said:

      “Being gay is a sin. It bleeds into others lives it tares down what God established as the family”

      I would like to invite you to read my post from a day or two age regarding this topic.

      Thank you!

      • Christopher Toft

        Lindsey. Please disregard my last post(As “guest” for some reason). You are perfectly entitled to your opinion & I am afraid my post was a subtle attempt to deny you the right to your Christian beliefs. This was wrong of me & I apologise.

    • Victor

      A brief commentary about this:

      “Being gay is a sin. It bleedes into others lives it tares down what God
      established as the family. So does divorce outside of adultery”

      What the biblical god established as the family is a little weird. He created Adam and Eve, they procreated Abel and Cain. By force, Cain and Abel had to procreate with their mother, Eve, or with their sisters, if they existed, but were not mentioned. Abel was killed by Cain, and he had a son, Enoch. According to biblical data, Cain procreated him with Eve, or with a sister, there was nobody else. (Though there is a misterious “Nod’s land” where the Cain’s wife came from, so, it would mean that there were OTHER people besides Adam, Eve, and Cain, but that’s another story).

      So, in that family established by the biblical god, some kind of INCEST and/or ADULTERY took place…

      Oh yes, we just have to remember that in those times, god was a fallible god as Gn. 6:6 tells us… Of course something went wrong from the very begininning…

      P.D.: Cain could get his wife from a Set’s daughter… Set was the next Cain’s brother after Abel. But again, Set, necessarily, had to procreate with his mother Eve, or with a sister, so the INCEST issue is on topic…

      Really, a strange ‘god’ that set up things in this way…

  • Joycee17

    If one lives their life in the Old Testament, by constant quoting of it, then are their actions saying they do not believe in Jesus or they would actually at least try to BE like Jesus. To me the OT tells us stories about how people treated other people before Jesus came to show them how to treat people, with love, not fear in NT. Yet so many of the people that claim to be “Christians” are far from being Christ like. I wish they would re-read the red.

    Jesus said “Love one another as you love me”, “Judge NOT”, and “Fear NOT”. Amen, end of story.

  • Patrick Gannon

    Perhaps the problem with homosexuality is that it does not pass along original sin. Sex is “bad” in Christianity because it is the medium by which original sin passes from generation to generation. This concept developed over time. Paul, the first NT writer, has no idea of any virgin birth concept. He didn’t know Jesus at all. Mark the next writer and first gospel writer, does not have a virgin birth either; but the concept of using sex, a private and personal matter, to control people through guilt and fear must have been too good to pass up. Or perhaps, lacking the technology we have today, fear and guilt were the only way to keep people from killing each other with diseases and unwanted pregnancies. In any event, in the remaining gospels Mary became a virgin, in order to ensure that original sin could not be passed to Jesus – otherwise he could not have been sinless, as original sin stains us all through the sex of our parents. (I wonder about test tube babies… Do they have original sin?) The Catholics, as they must, took it even further, claiming later that Mary herself was born without original sin… (Not sure why they couldn’t do that for Jesus in the first place…)

    So perhaps the problem with homosexuality, besides not producing necessary offspring, is that no original sin is being passed along. We must all believe that we are separate and sinful in order that we might be frightened and controllable. Besides it’s a sex thing, and sex must be bad if it passes along original sin.

    The problem for intelligent and knowledgeable Christians today is that they believe evolution explains how we got here, and not a young earth creation. This huge, looming, yet un-discussed problem for moderate/liberal Christianity is that if there is no Garden myth; then there is no original sin. No fall from grace. No denial of God. No capacity for evil that we didn’t have before. You can’t point to a place in our evolution over the last couple million years and say, “this is when it became necessary to be saved, and this is why.” Belief that evolution explains the natural world, eliminates the need for salvation; and that has to change Christianity. I don’t think most Christians realize this yet. They are logical, educated, intelligent and so they discard young earth creationism, not realizing that they discard the need for salvation at the same time. And why else is Jesus so important?

    If you believe evolution, then nobody needs to be saved. Nobody needs to believe the right thing about Jesus in order to be saved. All that’s left of Christianity for those intelligent and knowledgeable believers is to follow the message of Jesus about love and peace, tolerance, and the abolition of fear.

    And what’s so bad about that? They can put away the fear and finally be Christians.

    • mewabe

      Very well put…and another advantage of believing in evolution is that Christians can put aside the fear of being inbred, all descending from Adam and Eve and their off springs, brothers and sisters 🙂

    • Christopher Toft

      Interesting take on this. Thanks!

  • Victor

    About homosexuality. My two cents:

    There are several web sites of homosexual christians.

    All of them explain that actually, the Bible does NOT condemn homosexuality. Some of the verses in the Bible used constantly to condemn homosexuals would be bad traductions and misunderstandings.

    For example, about the well known 1 Corinthians 6:9, it’s said:

    “The citations on this page indicate that the malakos word group was not
    used by our ancestors as a general reference to gay men and lesbians.

    When anti-gay conservative Calvinists like Phil Johnson support the gay
    Christian view, that the cultural, historical, religious context of 1
    Corinthians 6 was temple prostitution, that is an important admission.

    It is historically inaccurate and factually incorrect to translate the
    malakos word group to mean homosexual. The evidence indicates that 1
    Corinthians 6 is dealing with temple prostitution – even our most ardent
    foes agree with us about that.” “.

    And about the greek word “arsenokoites”:

    “Dr. Ann Nyland, Faculty in ancient Greek language and Ancient History in
    the Department of Classics and Ancient History, the University of New
    England in Australia, Translator of The Source New Testament and The Gay and Lesbian Study Bible, says about arsenokoites:

    “The word arsenokoites in 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 has been assumed to mean “homosexual.”

    However the word does not mean “homosexual,” and its range of meaning includes
    one who anally penetrates another (female or male), a rapist, a murderer
    or an extortionist.

    When used in the meaning “anal penetrator,” it does not apply exclusively to males as the receptors, as it was also used for women receptors. The word does not appear in any
    Greek literary source until the poets of the Imperial period. This late occurrence is most significant as the Greeks wrote at length on male-male sexual relationships.”

    Many information about these and other related topics around homosexualism in the Bible, can be found everywhere. The main reason because so many homosexuals are christians and feel not subjugated or condemned by Jesus or the Bible…

    I found those quotations in the web site ‘gaychristian101’.

  • poniesnpaint

    I think this is a great approach. I was raised as a PK (preacher’s kid) and could scarcely wait to get away from home to be able to express the things I knew years ago were true for me—but dared not say them at home (physical abuse would have followed –the psychological and emotional abuse were daily events). The illogic and downright blind obedience that was expected just never did sit with me. They say one thing and deny it in the next breath, so how can they say their foundations are “unshakeable”?? When people say their beliefs are unshakeable and unchangeable because they are Absolute Truth, it seems to me they’re running scared—
    They are scared to look beyond the parameters given by their group/authority figure/etc. because they’re afraid to confront the control issues, the complete illogic of many of the arguments and the just plain lack of common sense. A faith that isn’t strong enough to allow a little questioning isn’t faith, it’s blind obedience to something you don’t really believe, but everyone says it’s the right way, so everyone falls into line.
    A strong faith not only allows questioning and searching for understanding, it demands it. Because faith is supposed to be a living thing, it cannot survive if it is never fed curiosity, doubt or outright shouting anger at God—sometimes it takes a mixture of all three to grow a good faith. Those with a buffet-style justification have not figured out that doubt is not only an element of faith, it’s a requirement—to make it Your Own Experience, your own Faith, and not a rubber stamp approval from somebody. So, they continue to “strain at gnats and swallow camels” and make inane statements like this group has.
    If they could get back to the basic concept that God is Love and Love is All There Is, then these discussions wouldn’t even really be necessary. It would be as natural as breathing to love and accept. Justification wouldn’t be an issue, in fact, it probably wouldn’t even be in the dictionary—because it implies judgment and love doesn’t judge, it just loves.

    • Christopher Toft

      Hello poniesnpaint,
      I completely agree with your point of view on faith. It’s sad that many religious people & atheists equate “faith” with blind belief & blind obedience. This is not “faith” to my mind, it’s living fossilization. As you say, faith is a living thing & I would see curiosity, courage and trust as being elements of what the word faith really means to me. “Doubt is an requirement of faith” I love that!

  • poniesnpaint

    Thanks for your kind words, Christopher. It’s been a long struggle — not so much to break away from old teachings, but to accept new ones. Because of my disillusionment with the Southern Baptist teachings and the hypocrisy I saw it was hard to embrace another set of beliefs. My father would preach love, love, love, and the minute the last person was out of the door, he’d cuss and damn and carry on about what fools they were, etc. —lots of instances where what was said was not what was lived and we’d darn better keep our mouths shut about it. I was afraid of turning into a carbon copy of his actions. But I learned better with the help of some good friends and lots of thinking and rethinking about things.
    Granted, I can still get my back up pretty easily, but I’m learning how not to be so reactive around these folks. I know they’re coming from a place of fear and power-mongering in order to try to make sense of their world. They can’t do differently if they don’t know differently, so that’s my opportunity. So, all I can do is try to hold myself to my own standards.
    It’s great to read/participate in these discussions and know there are plenty of other good folks who are taking this same kind of journey with me. That makes it way more “fun” if you like but it also is comforting to know that if I need help in understanding there are people like yourself who are willing to explore honestly and fairly. Thank you for that and I’m sure we’ll be visiting again—
    Enjoy your day and again, thanks for the good words—

  • Dear Neale

    I would like to join your team and see if I can help in any way. To help you to position me in your team, here is how I see the world.

    I have come to understand that humanity as well as I my self, have need to re-create human character with understanding, that it is our character as a acting filter that is filtering our inspirational thoughts and creating ideas and the meaning of life that we add to all events and to our self expressions.

    Our human character is a self view inherited from our description of God by primitive theological belief that was created when the humanity lived in caves, today perpetuated by our Religious Institutions and our Holy Books.
    Character of Cave man Theological mentality, with space age technology is creating self destruction on a planetary scale.
    Idea of the Self must be enlarged and seen as the Essence of all life, in all expressed life forms.
    We desperately need to create public awareness and attention to people who manage our corporations in; Education, Banking, Pharmaceutical companies, Weapons’ productions, Religious Institutions, Political Arenas; where people, our leading scientists, are employed by those who are interested in more money and control disregarding the consequences.
    If personal self and self interest is not seen in all humanity as one self, we are on the road to hell.

    This is Emergency call to all who can help to lovingly expose our Cave Man Character created by FEAR Theology.
    I believe we need to act publicly, and not jest talk about it privately.
    I hope to be of some use to you who have started the Spiritual Awakening on Planet Earth, dear Neale.

    Kind regards.

    Victor Lomas

    Melbourne, Australia

  • Adrian Hindes

    One of the big things science has over religion is that science doesnt mind change, it embraces change. When something unexpected happens or something is proven wrong, nobody gets angry (usually), it’s exciting and they move on with it. But bring this sort of stuff up with any hardcore religious person (who seem to be more common than you’d think, even in Australia), and they cannot accept anyone questioning their “faith”.

    It makes them uncomfortable to have their set in concrete beliefs shaken a bit by something so logical. It’s not that we’re being mean, we’re just pointing out some flaws that you religious people really need to take a look at.