Worldwide Discussion:

In an enlightened society of sentient beings, what is more important and what is most reflective of a spiritually advanced culture: (A) protecting the intellectual property rights of innovative creators within that culture, or (B) making the innovations of innovative creators within a society available for the benefit of the largest number of people everywhere?

And what if the innovations are life-saving, illness-curing, sickness-abating drugs that have been researched, invented and manufactured at considerable cost by major, privately owned pharmaceutical companies, and sold by those companies around the world?

The above is not simply a philosophical inquiry. It may be playing itself out very soon in international courts — and it drives to the question of why the large pharmaceutical companies produce their products to begin with: to save the largest number of lives, or to make the largest possible profit?

According to a report by writer Abby Zimet published at the website, the CEO of the German-based pharmaceutical manufacturer Bayer — a gentleman named Marijn Dekkers — gave the reasons that Bayer researched, created, manufactured and has sold its anti-cancer medicine Nexivar around the world . . . and it was not to make the potentially life-saving drug available in places like, say, India, where Nexivar cost around $5,500 a month to use.

“We did not develop this medicine (Nexavar) for Indians,” the Common Dreams website reports Mr. Dekkers as saying at a little reported pharmaceutical conference. “We developed it for Western patients who can afford it.”

A check with the global information reference site Wikipedia appears to have confirmed the report. The Wikipedia article says: “In an interview given to the Businessweek following controversies surrounding the Indian government’s decision to award a compulsory license to Indian company Natco Pharma Ltd. for Naxavar (sic) (Sorafenib), Bayer CEO Marijn Dekkers equated the compulsory license with theft.

“Regarding targeted markets, he said, ‘Is this going to have a big effect on our business model? No, because we did not develop this product for the Indian market, let’s be honest. We developed this product for Western patients who can afford this product, quite honestly. It is an expensive product, being an oncology product’.” (“Merck to Bristol-Myers Face More Threats on India Drug Patents”. 2014-01-21).

As noted above, Mr. Dekker’s comments came in response to media inquiries regarding an action taken by the government of India, which has compelled a local Indian drug manufacturer to produce a generic version of Nexavar for the Indian market, saying that because the product produced by Bayer violates Indian law because it is not available to the public at a reasonably affordable price.

The government invoked what it says is its authority to compel the manufacturing of sorafenib, a generic version of Nexavar, and have it made available to the Indian population as a life-saving measure for its citizens suffering from kidney cancer or liver cancer.

As a result, a local Indian company, Natco Pharma, is now allowed to manufacture and sell sorafenib in India for about $178 per month, rather than the $5,500 per month that Nexavar costs. By government order, Natco must make the generic drug available for  free to 600 Indian patients per year who cannot even afford this cost, and must pay a 6% royalty on all sales to Bayer quarterly.

The Bayer company — which reportedly finished 2011 with a near-doubling of net income year-over-year to €2.5 billion (about $3.3 billion) —  has said it will evaluate its options “to further defend our intellectual property rights in India,” a Bayer spokesperson said in media reports. Bayer said it was “disappointed by the decision” of the Indian government to grant a license to a local drug firm in India to produce a generic version of its highly touted cancer-treating drug so that India citizens could afford it.

As reported by the media, Bayer’s CEO equated the action with theft. The question, then, for highly evolved beings: Is Bayer being stolen from . . . or are the people whose lives are being taken by kidney and liver cancer in India being stolen from because they cannot afford $69,000 a year for a drug that could be made available to them for $178 a month in its generic form, if Bayer would only let it happen?

What responsibility — if any — does a company which nearly doubled its net income from 2011 to 2012 have to a global society? (A major percentage of India’s population lives below the poverty line. The government’s most recent estimate is 32%. The World Bank says it is ten percent higher.)

I’d very much like to hear your answer to the above question. Please post your comment below.  Thanks.

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  • IamI.M.W

    Cannabis Can help in most of the symptoms and even cure the cancer. Are they running from the cure just because they cannot patent a plant for their money making? O_O

  • Wanda Phelps

    As long as the world is incentivized by money there will be arguments about intellectual property laws. The pharmaceutical industry has, if not always, for a very long time been motivated almost entirely by the profit margin. Many illnesses can be remedied by naturally growing plants. This industry uses plants as it’s basis for “medicines” or their properties to create synthetics. There was a time when they offered an advantage for those who had no access to or knowledge of plant medicine. As they evolved, they explored life prolonging medicines. As is with the vast majority of financially compensated offering that goes global in scope, governments and politics become entwined in their growth. Power and greed become the motivating force behind their creations. I personally feel that today many of the pharmaceuticals offered to the public if they can be afforded are detrimental to health rather than an enhancement. They put them on the market and sell them until they are proven harmful and they are forced to take them off. Doctors prescribe them because pharmaceutical companies provide only those peer reviewed materials that they wish to highlight. It would take all of a physician’s time just to try and research the veracity of any of the many products that he is encouraged to prescribe. This industry is now contemplating reducing a person’s right to purchase plant materials to purchasing them from a pharmacy, their purpose so they say is to protect us from ourselves, from purchasing unsafe products from people not regulated. Personally I would prefer to do my own homework rather than to rely on an industry that cares not about health care as much as they do about the bottom dollar.
    I believe that pharmaceutical companies SHOULD bear responsibility for their impact on this earth and her inhabitants. I believe that they do not accept nor bear that responsibility. They have grown too large, too powerful. People who feel that they are dependent upon the products will not revolt, they would fear losing that which they consider essential to life.

  • mewabe

    Is there even a doubt in anyone’s mind that the love of money rules some sectors of society, and that some individuals who are in a leadership position in business hide behind the implacable logic of a cold and cynical profit ideology, thus not having to take any responsibility for the ruthlessness of their decisions and actions because operating “under” this all powerful system and taking their marching orders from it?

    Humans have proven, throughout history, to be extremely skilled at rationalizing anything, including the most gruesome actions. The rational in this particular case is not religion, it is not politics, it is Profit, which is rapidly becoming one of the new twin gods of humanity, the other being Power, and the multitudes seem to bow to these twin gods in submission and awe, while the very rich and powerful are worshiped at the altars of environmental destruction and social devastation.

  • Kristen

    I struggle with the entire concept of intellectual property laws, I understand and respect the reason for them as it is not necessarily right for people to profit from the hard work of others, but we are all constantly using things that are not covered under this. Pencils, paper, pens, chairs amongst millions of things that someone designed at some point and shared freely with the world to benefit all, not to mention the selling of art work copies by the greats, many of whom died poor, yet people are now making millions off them. The entire ‘old school’ human concept of everyone naturally working for the greater good of all has well gone. A part of natural law, when the benefits for all outweigh the personal gain for a few (money).

    Cancer is one of the biggest industries on this planet, and generates huge funds for a few. Like climate change, it is not in any scientists best financial interests to release huge break throughs and make them cheaply available – to them that is akin to redundancy.

    With regards to cancer – it is generally a manifestation of unhappiness with our bodies, negative energy transmitted to them and is 100% holistically caused, albiet generally deliberately as a part of reincarnation paths. If people want to die relatively young, it is against many Laws, therefore they have to suffer prior and after to accommodate in advance the suffering they are causing to their loved ones. This definately does not mean ‘people’ are deliberately getting cancer as conscious people, it means their guides, Neales God and the old soul that created them as a new hologram/conscious person is arranging it. Reincarnation sucks so much! CwG books go into this in depth, as do all reincarnation publications. The Universe therefore has no choice but to allow others to put in place the catalysts that will then be available to these people making this reincarnation choice, which is what a huge part of our world is about now. These death causing catalysts are huge industries, standard demand and supply stuff. IF no-one wants to be over 60 in the afterlife so want to die younger than that thenof course things will be in place to allow for this. Death more so than life, is governing our lives. We are also completely going against nature and our bodies, especially in relation to female hormonal cancers.

    A strong health immune system, in a happy healthy person cannot ‘get’ cancer. I would be boosting the immune systems of all ‘poor’, depressed, not coping with aging, generally unwell etc people, and obviously they should be more diligent about steering clear of cancer causing agents. Uncensored and Natural health mags are both online and this appears to be one of their main topics. Marijuana, hemp and coconut oil, colloidal silver, iodine, vit b12 and c, vit D from the sun (I think sunblock is the most dangerous invention ever), organic raw foods, mineral water, swimming in the ocean, olive leaf extract, avoiding all parabens and things like canned foods etc will all help.

    I believe (and have read articles but not enough to be able to define it as facts) that healthy happy people with good immune systems are also the ones resistant to HIV – they catch it and their body fights it like a very bad flu 3 days later with a high fever and a signature of rapid weight loss of around 5kg in the three bedridden days, but then recover and remain ‘normal’, without symptoms and do not develop AIDS or need meds. Unfortunately they will still test as HIV positive, but positive tests generally mean you have been exposed to a virus so now carry the antibodies. This is huge, and I KNOW it can happen the same with cancer. Why are they not using these resistant people, or their donated blood as some part of the treatment plans and science?

    They can cure it all if the scientists and medics want to, at low cost, but they do not want to as huge industries are dependant on these people getting sick.

    Neale – I do not think anyone needs the expensive drugs in India – things that are known to work just as well can be found in a health food store or outside. There is just no money in sending people to the store, and the good old fear of death is used as bullying – BUY MY DRUGS OR HAVE MY CHEMO OR YOU WILL DIE. Yeah right.

  • flojones

    The actions and thoughts of the pharmaceutical companies and their staff about their intellectual properties and how their products should be avalaible define themselves, they will experience the outcomes of their decisions sooner or later. If we decide that they are wrong and that we should prevent them from choosing how to deal with their products,
    whatever their choices, we define ourselves. Are we that righteous to know what’s best for others and prevent them to exprience the outcomes of what they want to create, even if if the experience could be suffering ? my answer is no.
    We, as human beings, are all responsable of the experience we have and create, but most people are unaware that what they experience is the direct outcome of their choosing. Choosing what society or company is used to doing is a choice even if most of the time it is not experienced as a choice.
    Pharmaceutical companies and their staff show that they don’t believe in equality of all human beings, that profit will bring them more happiness than sharing, that is their choice, not a very evolved one for sure.
    But are we all that sure that we act as if we really believed in equality ?

  • Christine Slaght

    i have been reading posts here. i see many informed reply’s.. and various ideas . i am rather comment will be simple.I am all for holistic and alternative meds..i prefer them myself..but it is important to have choices 1=people get ill 2= someone develops a ‘cure’ to heal them or lessen pain 3=pharmaceutical companies get richer watching ill people suffer. this equation has gone off path . is ill founded and its morally lacking. Americans and others can not afford the costs either.. people lose everything over it.. all i am hearing in my head right now is..Pharmaceutical companies are playing God..

  • Awareness

    In this “illusion” we have created, no one can create wealth in isolation. Therefore, a company such as “Bayer” cannot be profitable in isolation. “Bayer” cannot make profits without it’s customers (human beings). “Bayer” is “rich” because of it’s customers. The suggestion therefore is to share 🙂 This is not a judgement, but merely an observation 🙂

    By the way, Cosmic Awareness (GREAT SPIRIT! GREAT AWARENESS!) has indicated that a CURE for cancer already exists 🙂 Also, BASHAR of the Sassani (Living Light) Civilization suggests ASPARAGUS, AVOCADO and WALNUT as CURE for cancer 🙂

    Bless ALL 🙂

    • Awareness

      It is important for people to understand and appreciate the difference between a “CURE” and a “TREATMENT”. I suggest to always look for the word “CURE” in the description for any new “medicine” 🙂

      • Erin

        Very good suggest…Except that “Only a drug can cure a disease” is now a ‘law’ in the U.S., so one will never be told or read a label that makes such claim, not even those that created the law, because of liability involved. Quite the Catch-22, huh?

        • Awareness

          There are just too many unnecessary “man made” laws. “The only Law that matters” is “NATURAL LAW” as “Conversations with God” says* 🙂

          *God said this in the context of marriage vows, however, it applies here as well 🙂

          Bless ALL 🙂

  • Benny Hansen

    Alam tidak mentolerir manusia dengan mendatang banyak bencana alam adalah wajar… karena manusia yang telah merusak alam.

    Sangat ironis sekalidan tidak wajar ..ketika manusia menciptakan penyakit secara tidak langsung terhadap sesama manusia tetapi tidak mau menolong ketika banyak penduduk global yang sakit.

    Banyaknya makanan yang mengandung zat kimia yang beredar dan rusaknya lingkungan merupakan faktor utama timbul banyak ragam macam penyakit.

    Kasus obat nexivar yang diproduksi hanya untuk pasien barat yang sanggup beli dapat dianggap sebagai sikap yang kejam dan angkuh dari negara negara maju.

    Negara maju selalu melemparkan isu hak azasi manusia terhadap negara berkembang tetapi justru banyak negara maju yang melanggar hak azasi manusia.

    Hak azasi manusia hanya sekedar DOKTRIN saja dan merupakan alat politik untuk sebuah isu menekan negara lain.

    Jika hak azasi manusia benar benar dijunjung tinggi,niscaya obat nexivar dapat dibeli oleh seluruh lapisan masyarakat India.

    Kenyataannya hak kekayaan intelektual lebih beharga dan lebih mahal dari miliaran nyawa manusia.

    Penganut spritual dari negara maju mengatakan bahwa semua manusia di dunia adalah sama dan satu.Kenyataannya bagaimana kaum spritual negara maju yang selalu rajin beribadah bisa tetapi tidak melaksanakan Mateus 22: 39 ..???.

    Dapat ditafsirkan negara negara maju seperti Jerman dan lainnya,tidak pernah menghargai hak azasi dan nyawa manusia.Dan hanya kepentingan ekonomi negara diatas segala galanya.

    Inilah hidup,terkadang manusia lebih kejam dari binatang.

  • Carina Aduddell

    The company may choose either to help those of a lower income get the medicine they need..or they may not. But if they choose not is up to other members of the global community to see they get the help they need. Not everyone is going to be happy of course. Look at the Affordable Care Act…how many people are upset about everyone having health care and how “unfair” it all is? It is our moral responsibility to help others who we feel are being treated unfairly and unjustly..end of story. If we don’t take care of others when they are in need…why would we expect them to help us when we’re the ones in need? Treat others the way you want to be treated. God bless! 🙂

  • Steve Kostov

    Life will be held hostage for as long as we continue to see Health as a profit-making institution.

    In such a supply and demand market, the profiteers protect (and create) the demand at all costs, be it monetary cost, moral or otherwise.

    As long as we see health as a commodity, we will channel all efforts and talent towards managing disease, not curing it. As a matter of fact great deal of the efforts (financial or otherwise) go towards making sure we don’t cure illness and that we don’t make life-sustaining or life-saving drugs too cheap.

    Of course Health is not a commodity. It is what stands between you being here and being dead. You never see anyone trading their health or selling their kidney on the stock market.

    Having been raised under the Russian model of Communism in Eastern Europe (keeping in mind it was a very different model than the Chinese, Cuban or N. Korean Communism), the three things that blew my mind away when the Iron Curtain was lifted and I immigrated to the West and experienced a “cultural shock”, were:

    One – organized religion still existed (we were taught it was last significant in medieval times), and they haven’t updated the books on it to keep up with the other advancements in human evolution.

    Two – Education wasn’t free, society actually charges for it and had different levels of the quality of knowledge that provides to itself, based on…the row of the dice – what family a child is born in, in terms of income. The concept of people hoarding and keeping knowledge and information from each-other was a shock to me, it was as if I had landed on a different planet. And I was coming from behind the Iron Curtain – called that for the reason of effectively shielding and controlling information for half a century. We were subjected to brainwashing, misinformation and disinformation. And I still couldn’t believe what was happening on the other side of the fence.

    And Three – Doctors, the most noble of professions that differentiated Humans from animals, by being the only species that tries to save their weak and sick, asked for money!?! Health was being viewed as a commodity and Life bargained with and held hostage.

    It was incomprehensible to me at the time that an Ability would exist, but denied to someone or anyone based on conditionality. “I have a devise, it’s called a CAT scanner, I can see inside you without cutting you, and tell you why you are feeling so sick and then help you perhaps continue to exist. But I won’t. I will just let this machine stay here, unused today, as a matter of fact tomorrow too, we don’t have any appointments scheduled all day, but we will not use this marvelous creation devised to safe lives on you, because you are simply what we call a “poor person”. You are still a person, we acknowledge that, no problem. We have to, because we tell ourselves that we are the best nation, protect freedoms and all that stuff,… you studied our Constitution when you became a citizen – it starts with “We, the People” – so we acknowledge that you are a person. But the “person” part isn’t important to us here in the West. It’s the “poor” part we focus on and stay away from… Sorry! Maybe in another Life time you’ll get born rich, then we’ll take a look at you…”

    I still remember how my heart dropped to the floor, my dignity drained through my heels and into the ground, the first time I needed to see a doctor in the West, but embarrassed myself by going there with empty pockets and no clue what “insurance” was or meant. The only thing I brought with me was my broken English.

    “Insurance”, explained the receptionist to a 21 year old man at the time, with a whole room of bored, waiting patients behind me looking at me like I’m from Mars, and I may as well have been, “is when you pay a company monthly, so that when you need medical help, we can help you, if it’s covered”.

    “But I don’t understand. Didn’t you study to be a doctor so that you can help me when I’m sick, and in exchange I studied to be something else, so that I give that service to your family, should they want/need it. And the other guy there, he didn’t study, but he picks up our garbage every day, and the other one bakes our bread, so that we don’t have to do all this other things and each just focus on what we love to do and are good at?”

    And then they laughed. All of them. “Sure, that would be the day. Dream on, my friend, dream on” she said. “Next!!”…

    I remind myself all that every time I hear someone say: “I wonder if real aliens land here from outer space, what would they think of us”?

    Then I realized the power of perspective. If you were completely isolated from a concept, then you suddenly interact with it for a first time, your perspective is light years away from what it would had been, should you had been raised with it. As smart as we imagine ourselves to be, we are a gullible species. “It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they had been fooled” – Mark Twain.

    We give our children the same information we were given and they run with it, society gains tremendous momentum. We may be the only country in the world who tells its citizens on a continuous bases that they live in the greatest country there ever was. So why on earth anyone would strive to change that, if raised that way?

    Look at our progress soar virtually in any other field. Take computers. A program. Weeks, if not days after you buy it, it asks you to update it. You ask yourself – “Why, it works fine?”. “Oh, we have improvements. We are constantly fixing bugs, glitches. We just designed a whole new interface.”

    I went to a local computer repair shop last year. The kid from behind the counter, who was a wizard to me as far as technology goes, and who’s strict, traditional Catholic mom I know from debates I had with her church group and her kid regarding the nature of God and whether they see room for “updates” in that department, this very kid told me: “The good news is: it’s not a hardware problem, it’s a software problem. Your computer is crashing because your operating system is too old and you have incompatibility with three new programs. So either upgrade the Operating System, or just don’t use any new programs, they are not designed for this old system, they will crash it every time.” I said: “But I’m comfortable with this system, I’m used to it, can’t we find a middle ground “. Then he said, and I quote: “You don’t get it, do you? Just update the whole thing already, man, why resist it? Where have you been! Did you live under a rock or something? …Yea, I remember you, you argued with my mom about theology… Just buy a new machine already! Cheez, you are like a dinosaur.”

    Then I said: “Who, me? You haven’t even updated your Bible yet, or at LEAST your interpretation of it. You are operating on a Two Thousand Year-Old Operating System and interface, and you are calling ME a dinosaur? Everything you do in your life is within these and only parameters and frames of reference…except with computers. Give me your logic on that!”

    He said: “Well, that’s how it is! Get used to it!”

    So I left.

    Three days later I had a new system.

    This is why it seems insane to me for a society to have inflicted such an affliction upon itself and continue to live within its own contradictions and hypocrisy and refuse to change anything, even when stared in the face by a loud Truth.

    “Do private companies bare any responsibility for world citizens”?

    They bare lack of Consciousness, that much I know.

    And as long as we keep teaching our young about everything that did not work, and tell them is still the “best” system in the whole wide world – we will have THAT repair guy behind the counter, THAT pharmaceutical company growing beyond reach, THOSE lawyers defending it and so on, and so forth.

    And of course those people, inconveniently poor, who continue to blink from the shadows, waiting to expire.

    And if you are not careful, and look deeply into their gazing eyes, you may see a faint reflection of your own, primordial Self, for perhaps the same Spirit is part of your own Consciousness…

    But why bother? It’s just so “darn” inconvenient.

    • Awareness

      “managing disease, not curing it.”

      Are privately owned pharmaceutical companies “managing disease, not curing it.”?

      Bless ALL 🙂

      • Steve Kostov

        I did not phrase the sentence the way you phrased the question with the excerpt from the paragraph, but that would work too. It’s actually old news:

        “Big pharma and health care: unsolvable conflict of interests between private enterprise and public health.

        Brezis M.
        Isr J Psychiatry Relat Sci. 2008;45(2):83-9; discussion 90-4.
        A landmark paper on Game Theory showed that individual maximization of profit necessarily endangers the public good, and since the problem has no technical solution, “it requires a fundamental extension in morality” (1). We propose here that public health, as a public good, now emerges as a grave example of this problem. Recent events and reports increasingly suggest misalignment between the interests of the pharmaceutical industry and those of public health. Johnson & Johnson illegally and effectively promoted Propulsid off-label for children despite internal company documents raising safety concerns. Death in drug trial has been described as a “trade secret.” On Vioxx, Topol wrote: “Sadly, it is clear that Merck’s commercial interest exceeded its concern about the drug’s toxicity” (2). More and more concerns are raised by scholars and major journal editors about the type and the quality of published evidence, often biased towards efficacy of new products. The industry, funding over 80% of trials, sets up a research agenda guided more by marketing than by clinical considerations. Smart statistical and epidemiological tactics help obtain the desired results. Budget for marketing is by far greater than for research. Massive advertising to physicians and to the public gets increasingly sophisticated: ghost writing, professional guidelines, targeting of consumer groups and manipulating media for disease mongering. Pervasive lobbying and political ties limit the independence of regulatory bodies. Obligation to shareholders overriding public health considerations is not unique to the pharmaceutical industry. The chemical, tobacco and food industries share similar tactics: proclaiming doubts about safety issues, buying researchers, infiltrating universities, boards, media and legislative agencies. By contrast, powerful and cheap health promoting activities, poorly supported by industry because they are too cheap and not patented, are markedly underutilized: technologies for changing behavior (e.g., cardiac rehabilitation), palliative care and use of old, effective and safe drugs – all could benefit from industry’s tools of marketing and quality. As those most affected are the sick, the poor and the least educated, free market successes appear to pose unsolvable challenges to social justice in public health”….

        • Awareness

          Hi Steve Kostov 🙂

          Thank you for the enlightening Abstract 🙂 Actually the excerpt from the paragraph caught my eye and I decided to phrase my question with it (not meant as your full sentence) 🙂

          “it is clear that Merck’s commercial interest exceeded its concern about the drug’s toxicity”

          “The industry, funding over 80% of trials, sets up a research agenda guided more by marketing than by clinical considerations. Smart statistical and epidemiological tactics help obtain the desired results.”

          This raises the question: Do private pharmaceutical companies value “paper” money much more than human life and well being?

          Bless ALL 🙂

    • mewabe

      Very well said…I especially like the idea of a conflict of interest when disease is profitable!

      Indeed, the American Medical Association and the EPA routinely attack and shut down alternative healing practices, or at least attempt to do so, because they threaten profits from illness. And these profits make managing diseases a lot more profitable than curing them, in the long run.

      It is rather simple…if those who control society (politicians and their bosses, the military-industrial-banking-corporate complex) wanted to maintain a healthy population, they would no longer authorize or encourage the poisoning of our food supply, of our waster, air and soil, and they would promote a lifestyle that decreases stress rather than forever increase it with greater demands placed on the individual and on families.

      And then there are immense profits to be acquired from illnesses that are literally made up by the totally non scientific and equally profit driven American Psychiatric Association, that has targeted the young and their gullible parents with such fictitious “conditions” as “ADD” or “ADHD”, and better yet with “Oppositional Defiant Disorder”, and is attempting to medicate an entire nation and possibly the entire world with dangerous psychotropic drugs to such an extent that traces of a mixture of such drugs are now found in the water supply of many American cities.

      Will spiritual awakening ever take place in a doped up world?

      • Steve Kostov

        Hey mewabe, did not have a chance to reply to your old comment to me on the previous article, mean no disrespect by ignoring, I just juggle hectic schedule, often changing time zones, and do want to compare notes with you on the topic of “Spirituality” and “Love” or “Unconditional Love” from a certain perspective. I believe we may have been talking about the same or similar concepts, just using different language to dress it up… Maybe this weekend… I have to run at the moment 🙂

        • mewabe

          Thanks Steve, I had forgotten about it…no worries, I never feel disrespected or ignored…I understand that life is hectic for most of us, and I also understand that a response is always optional.
          I understood your perspective on spirituality…I was just trying to explore another angle, not to take away what you had expressed, but to add another element to it.

          I am sure we were talking about the same thing, with slightly different words.

  • mewabe

    What does it mean to actually be “spiritual”? It simply means being fully conscious that you are a spirit.

    It means opening the door.

    It means knowing that there is no separation between the “spirit” and the “flesh”, or between this world and the “other world”, there is merely a very thin veil that only exists in your consciousness.

    It means lifting this veil in your consciousness, and acquiring the abilities to see the “invisible” and hear the “inaudible”, that is to say to exist and experience the spiritual dimension at all times and everywhere.

    People who do not see the spirit, do not hear the spirit, and are limited by the apparent opacity and density of the physical experience, live in fear. This is the condition of much of humanity. This fear is deep, existential…it is the fear of the individual who has completely forgotten his or her spiritual dimension, who can no longer feel it, and can only identify with the mental and the physical, and with abstractions (spiritual and religious concepts).

    Greed is an outcome of such fear. The main outcome is violence, attack. Greed is a form of violence. In a dark world, a world that is perceived to be dark, cruel and meaningless by those who do not see its inner spiritual dimension, the laws of survival are merciless, ultimately rooted in the fear of annihilation, of death, of the destruction of the personality.

    Those few who, through the ages, have been able to communicate with the spiritual dimension have stood out as shamans, seers, prophets, holy men and women, and have been condemned as heretics or witches by religion. Some have taught, and their teachings have first been rejected then distorted by a world consciousness that neither knows nor understands what it is to live without fear. This is why all religions have guilt and fear as their main ingredient, except perhaps Buddhism, which when pure is more a psychological process than a religion.

    When a person cannot see, they have to have belief, faith…when they cannot love, they seek morality, a book of rules, divine laws…this is what religion is about, something to take the place of a vision and of a love that are absent in humanity…yet fear remains, with all of its consequences.

    Should we condemn people for being blind and deaf to the spirit, for living in fear in the darkness of perceived limitations? Could saying that “love is all there is” or “love your brother as yourself” ever mean anything to an individual whose mental world is ruled by fear because he cannot see past the apparent limitations of his body and his mind?

    How do you open the door of the spirit? First you have to want it…then you go within, and progressively become attuned to ever more subtle energies, understanding that all life is energy. Spending a lot of time in nature without distractions (alone) helps, as does following and completely trusting your inner guidance, your intuition.

    If you do not awaken your spirit and its abilities, spirituality is merely a concept. Saying that you are a spirit having a human experience may be comforting but it is not enough, you have to be it in order to know it, and it is possible.

    Fear, then, is seen for what it is: it is the fear of the blind and deaf…of those who do not know what they are, and where they are, who are lost in a world they do not understand and to which they cannot relate, because seen from the perspective of the mind and the body alone, or of a faith and a belief that cannot ever eradicate fear completely, and consequently cannot let a person be love, life does not make any sense.

  • Chocot


  • Judy Devlin


  • Judy Devlin


  • Erin

    Why on this planet would India want to involve themselves in the deluded Western Medical mindlessness that has over-taken the USA with Fears? Do they not See the results? Are We not sick enough to show the world that this is not a wise way to be of? idk…makes no sense!

    If it was an ethical, worth one’s consumer support, type of business, it would already have a responsible attitude toward it’s Home base, it’s customer base, & it’s shareholders…Their personal involvement & integrity in these areas would be reflected without doubt. But this is not so of Modern Medicine, Pharm USA, Insurance, nor the gov. depts. that get them what they want.

    Inglorious Genius is more like it. Excellent marketing, with heavy legal/political/medial back-ups. A control factor of Human Management that is the envy of All Big Biz of the USA…Their Death card trumps even the most intelligent of consumer minds. And profit…the success measure of any business…is immeasurable.
    What more could one ask for? Public responsibility??? In the exec. bathrooms, one would hear giggles of such a notion…all the way to the bank, while the lower staff truly believe they are ‘helping’ society through what they are adamantly taught as “the ONLY way” to do so.

    The intertwining of these private businesses & governance is so intricately webbed…A power-force unlike any other, including military might! Bio-warfare at it’s finest! In observing them over the past 40 yrs., through dismay & often absolute anger, I have to respect the planning & genius of their moves…They’ve got the U.S. by the loins in every sense…In less than a century! There should be a Monopoly game based on this structure! But they already play the real deal. Again, Why would any other country’s people want in on being this way?

    And what is the strong-hold of their immense success? Fear & Ignore-ance…There is no lack of either in present human about their own body vehicles, so it is an endless supply of market-targets…the perfect ploy.

    We only need look at Our short history to See that ‘make them sick, take their weapons, & you get easy-to-control’…Mission in accomplish mode…once again.

    Blessings to All…the structures We create & support, and to each who maintains their fiscal feeding schedules. We are in this Together! Dearest India…Listen to your elders, else you too will be ‘consumed’. Namaste’ <3

  • Blake

    Attractiveness, Fat, sick, and dumb the new American Patriot
    and all around good consumer.

    I admit it. I am all four. And that makes me a good American
    consumer that invests in American economic growth in our worldwide free market capitalism.

    Attractiveness- I am a Good Citizen, I spend thousands of
    dollars a year on McCosmedics, McExercise Programs, McTummytucks, McPlastic Surgery,
    McClothes, McShoes, McJewelry, and McNail Polish.

    Fat- I weigh close to 500 pounds, I seem to feel that I have
    been on every fad diet known to man. I have lost hundreds of pounds and gained
    back more than I have lost. I am a good citizen I am on a McDiet, no exercise, high
    fat, sugar, and salt intake. I have spent thousands of dollars on McDiet plans,
    McDiet supplies, McDiet food, McDiet drugs, McDiet doctors and I am exhausted of
    it all and yet I continue to consume more and more getting less and less

    Sick- Because I weigh 500 pounds, I have McHeart Disease, McHigh
    Blood Pressure, McDiebeties, McArthritis and McSex Problems which I treat with
    McPharmicuticals and more McDoctors, and more McHospitalizations.

    Dumb- I am a good citizen because I watch McTV at least 8
    hours a day, go to my McChurch and hear the weekly McMessage of what God
    expects from me, I read McNewspapers, I read McMagazines, I listen to McRadio,
    I have McInternet, and McBooks all written, produced and portrayed by McMedia
    people that hit me with McPropoganda from the McGovernment of McPoliticians,
    who are paid by the McCorporations that are controlled by the McBanks, that are
    owned by the Mc85 Persons in the world that control all the McWealth in the
    world. What a McMagical world I live in.

    All of this can be ignored, healed, and transformed by organizing
    Spiritual Action Groups (SAG) and teaching the world Churches, Synagogues, Temples,
    and Mosques what God wants, and that God is love, and we are all one and that
    this is not a better way it is just another way.

    SAG’s can transform sick spirits and heal them so that
    violence will not be accepted anymore in this world of ours. We can teach the
    new spirituality to all the McIll’s in the world and see a future of people
    supporting people.


    • Blake

      What is a Spiritual Action Group? I don’t know exactly what it will look like. I know that the concept is right in line with what Neale is proposing for the world.

      I also feel that we as community can begin the process of growing the idea of what a Spiritual Action Group will look like, act like and feel like?

      I would like some input from others about how I can make a Spiritual Action Group come alive?