Something to think about

I am intrigued and impressed with the fascinating explorations and observations posted on this site recently by Mewabe regarding the future of our civilization on this planet.

Among other things, Mewabe has offered the idea that humanity is heading for a collective disaster the likes of which we have never known because “we are destroying this divine creation, looking for God, love and enlightenment in all the wrong places, such as in religions that define nature to be fallen, while science, the other ruling god of our world, also defines nature to be of no spiritual value.”

Mewabe adds: “This is why this global civilization is doomed, because it is out of touch with spiritual reality, from life, the world now being populated by human creatures who are disconnected from themselves and from all life, and literally lost in their minds.”

I must say that to a large degree I agree. Some of these ideas and conclusions, articulated in my own way, will be found in my book The Storm Before the Calm, which is posted in its entirety on this website. My point in making that statement: I think many of us are seeing the same thing. Specifically, the end of life “as we know it” on the Earth.

The question is, how much misery are we as a species going to have to endure before those remaining in future generations can get on with the business of continuing to live on this “third rock from the sun,” and evolve the species sufficiently to continue its existence?

The second question is, what will it take for us to do so? I can tell you that my own thought about it is that it will have nothing to do with political interventions around the world, nor with military actions, nor with social engineering, nor with technological achievements or medical miracles or scientific advances. None of these things are going to “save the day” for humanity.

There is only one thing that will, in my view, and that is a resurgence of individual spiritual transformation, through an expansion of consciousness that heightens our awareness of who we are, where we are, why we are here, and what we have the opportunity to do about that.

By spiritual transformation I mean to suggest a shifting of the very way in which we hold ourselves in our own perception. If we continue to see ourselves as not much more than mammals living upon a planet of diminishing resources, we will live an “eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we shall die” existence, turning our future into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If, on the other hand, we are startlingly awakened by the upheaval of events sufficiently to admit, finally and at long last, that there is something we have not understood about Who We Are and what we are doing here on Earth, we stand a chance to survive as a species — albeit, as Mewabe suggests, in an entirely different way, living an entirely different kind of life, for entirely different purposes and with entirely different objectives, producing entirely different experiences and realities.

There is another way to produce this outcome, however. We could make this shift in understanding in advance of any self-created upheaval, side-stepping it at least in part, and thus reducing the amount of death, suffering and anxiety we have to go through in order to evolve our species.

I do not see this, though, as a group effort. That is, no religion, no social movement, no political party, no organization espousing particular objectives and supporting those who agree, is going to produce this expanded understanding and turn it into our jointly held experience. This is going to have to be an individual effort. It will have to be done on a one-by-one basis. At the very least, at the outset. There may be some “snowball rolling downhill” effect later on, but humanity’s present inertia will only be broken by individual after individual after individual reaching a level of spiritual clarity such as to finally and ultimately produce critical mass.

That means the work is up to you and me. We can stop looking to political leaders (as the recent election campaign in the U.S. is demonstrating clearly), we can forget about being inspired by religious figures (who are moving entirely too slowly to keep up with the speedily advancing need for spiritual enlightenment), and we can release any hope that we’ll find our opening through the work of social activists (who are focused on an entirely misplaced set of objectives).

If the generation of our children and our children’s children is to find itself living in, and joyfully co-creating the expansion of, the world of humanity’s highest potential, it will only be because enough of us did the lonely work of personal transformation. Side by side, if we are amazingly lucky, with a collaborative life partner or beloved personal friend accompanying us in this undertaking, but very few others available to diminish our sense of isolation. We are going to have to rely on the God of our understanding as our primary source of companionship on the journey.

Indeed, it will be our conversations with God that will have to supply us with our encouragement and our enlightenment. I observe that no currently existing group or collective is even close to being able to do so.

And the purpose of our individual spiritual work will not be to change the world, but to bring our own unique experience of being human to the level of the Divine, that we may complete the Agenda of our Soul, and fulfill its purpose for bringing us here. This, and only this, can produce, almost as a side effect, the experience of humanity’s collective transformation.

It is my everlasting hope that your own conversations with God will invite you to this encounter and open you to its successful conclusion: the uniting of your Human and Divine self, bringing you peace, joy, comfort, tranquility, wisdom, and everlastingly unconditional love at last as part of your life itself, realized in moment-to-moment expression.

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  • AKA Patrick

    Not to take away from you for a moment, Neale, but A Course in Miracles recommends we engage in something it calls the two-step–a sort of stepping back from the picture we’ve drawn of our lives (individually and collectively),looking at it a second time and then asking Ourselves (the God Self within us): “What is the Truth here, Father?” What is the More of You that I Am not seeing here? And then shutting up, and listening to the response of that still small voice within us. And then having the courage to act as it recommends. The Course in Miracles terms itself a Mind-Training course, and indeed it is. It took me over two and a half years of intense, daily study to even come close to understanding what this course teaches. The Course also clearly delineates that it’s not for everybody, because there are those who will not persist in its study.

    • Diane Alméras

      I think that there is no “but” between A Course in Miracles and the comment of Neale. Taking that distance and listening to the still voice within us, IS holding our own conversation with God. And it is for every one… but we will have to wake up one by one… which is why the Course says that it isn´t, not yet. Stating that all is an Illusion means that we are free and able to co-create another reality, that is what is REAL. But it does not mean that we should cross our arms and give no importance to what is going on, only because it is not REAL in the truest sense. If there is Love in us, we will see, feel, that it is damn too real for the majority of the hurting Humanity. Breaking this illusion is the work Neale is talking about.

      • AKA Patrick

        One thing that would help immensely would be to have a world full of empaths: PEOPLE WHO REALLY CARE FOR AND ABOUT EACH OTHER–regardless of the skin color, or place of birth. 30 years ago, Ken Wilber wrote a wonderful book entitled: “No Boundary”, which, when I read it, set me to thinking about BORDERS (AND IMMIGRATION). If WE ARE truly “one- world- citizens”, then why not erase all the borders? They’re ONLY lines drawn on a map! The lines are drawn to bring money to governmental entities, not to help the people. Did not Jesus help “the little guy”, the common people? Yes. He turned the money changers’ tables in the temple upside down. (One version of an attempted OVERHAUL of HUMANITY)..We must realize BEING ONE means that what we do TO another, we do TO ourselves, just as what we do FOR another we do FOR ourselves. These are all things to think about–food for spiritual thought, so to speak.

    • NealeDonaldWalsch

      AKA Patrick… You have written: “Also the Course speaks volumes about the importance of forgiveness, BECAUSE what others MAY have seemed to have done TO us, is not REAL.” It’s not real, because it’s actually illusory.Have you read the CWG material on Forgiveness Forgone? There is a huge section of the book devoted to this in “The Only Thing That Matters.”

      CWG makes the case that “Forgiveness is the biggest obstacle to spiritual growth,” because in holding the idea that you have to forgive someone — or that you are hoping someone forgives you — you have rejected outright your True Identity and the Identity of everyone else. Given Who You Really Are, you cannot be hurt, injured, or damaged in any way. Imagining that you can, or have been, amounts to a complete rejection of the truth of your being, thus stopping you from experiencing it. Thus, forgiveness is the biggest obstacle to spiritual growth.
      Says The Only Thing That Matters: “Understanding replaces Forgiveness in the mind of the master.”

      You might find this book very interesting reading.

      • AKA Patrick

        Already read it in its entirety.

  • Some thoughts:

    Neale says: “There is another way to produce this outcome, however. We could make this shift in understanding in advance of any self-created upheaval, side-stepping it at least in part, and thus reducing the amount of death, suffering and anxiety we have to go through in order to evolve our species.”

    Amen brother! I would like to see this happen this way. I’m often saying we eventually outgrow violence, pain & suffering. First as individuals, then as a collective.

    I work & play to experience that beingness. Living with out struggle pain and conflict. In being and creating this, I often say there’s no guarantee, but the probability goes way up as I practice this. Certainly problems, even conflicts may come up but are handled differently, challenges come up, but are seen as opportunities etc.

    I’m working and playing toward mastership, with more concern about my beingness moment to moment, than being a master, which appears quite a ways off but getting there can be enjoyable. Live in original blessing I say. Live in the solution, not the problem.

    Neale continues: “I do not see this, though, as a group effort. That is, no religion, no social movement, no political party, no organization espousing particular objectives and supporting those who agree, is going to produce this expanded understanding and turn it into our jointly held experience. This is going to have to be an individual effort. It will have to be done on a one-by-one basis.”

    It seems from my experience that this is what a lot of spiritual people are already doing & being. They generally like to read a lot of spiritual literature, books. They listen to recordings, watch youtube talks, do conference calls, blogs, workshops, retreats etc. They love doing such things as they are very motivated to self improve. That’s why I think if we all teach & master the LOA, Law of Attraction, we will create more good simply out of self interest!

    Neale also says: “…but humanity’s present inertia will only be broken by individual after individual after individual reaching a level of spiritual clarity such as to finally and ultimately produce critical mass.”

    I often wonder when will we reach critical mass??? I heard about this in the 1990’s even before the internet took off, now 16 years into the new century when will the dominoes fall? I’ve heard it only takes about 3% of the population to get there. Which sounds very hopeful!

  • mewabe

    I hope that the transformation happens through an expanding of consciousness that won’t need to be triggered by global disaster and despair.

    Hopefully humanity will see the writing on the wall and change course voluntarily, discarding denial, letting go of erroneous beliefs, and abandoning its false hopes that a scientific or a technological miracle, a last minute Divine intervention, or even martians will save the day after we have basically made life as we know it no longer possible on this planet.

    I just want to add that we are never alone on a spiritual journey. The isolation that we feel in this world when on such a spiritual journey is part of discarding anything that is false, such as relationships or friendships that are not grounded in anything real, and such as ways of relating to others that are tainted with perceptions ans assumptions that have become obsolete as we move towards our own truth.

    But even then, those who are on such a journey are connected in other ways…at the level of pure consciousness. They are connected even when they do not consciously know it…or have never met…or do not even know of each other existence. They are also connected to the spirit world even when they do not know it, and have much support and companionship there as well. They also have the support of the entire creation…and of course of the Creator.

    So, yes, although we each must, alone, pass through the threshold of our own healing and realignment with the universe and the Divine, (by the way this passing through the gates of our own illusions alone is the very definition of what constitutes a paradox), and although looking at those who seem lost and who are suffering and causing suffering all around them can make our hearts feel heavy and our mind feel tired ( a feeling expressed in Leonard Cohen’s song The Faith), the truth is that there is no actual isolation, and no one will ever be lost. Isolation is impossible…because consciousness is one, and it is in this oneness that profound joy, that spiritual bliss is found again.

    For those who are on such a spiritual journey, take courage! You will soon find that it will be when you feel the most discouraged and are ready to give up that you will be the closest to your goal. Giving up is the last part pf the journey…as you must abandon all to find the All!

    • “I indeed hope that the transformation happens through an expanding of consciousness that won’t need to be triggered by global disaster and despair.”
      This indeed is my vision.

      • mewabe

        Hold on to this vision and keep it strong 🙂

  • cloutierfamily

    Wonderful Neale. I have begun my own conversation with God, and to my surprise it is turning into a friendship with God (I have read your books as inspiration) At first I read ‘Conversations with God’ as fiction. As many of the things that you wrote about seemed to resonate with me and come true, I read it again a second time with curiosity. Now I’m well past a personal point of denial, and I am studying the three books as literal truth to commit to memory.

    On my personal spiritual path I have also found that Lincoln Gerber of the youtube channel ‘Channel higher self’, is also on the direct personal path to self-realization. He has created literally hundreds of free spiritual self-help videos to help people to self-realize, I’d be interested in your take on the personal spiritual path that he suggests?

    • Therese

      Hi! Are you aware that there are more than 3 books in the “Conversations” series? In fact, there are 9! The way book 3 ends it is often misunderstood as the end. There are also several important books after that series that you may wish to check out…

    • Awareness

      Heavenletters(dot)org presents daily “letters” from God which I find uplifting 🙂 I found todays letter relevant to what you have written:

      God’s Invitation to Godwriting
      Heavenletter #5699 Published on: July 2, 2016

      God said:
      Whether I have or have not told you before about your possible reluctance in hearing what I whisper to you, the fact is that I sing to you and everyone all the time. This is the meaning of Omnipresence.

      I sing to you and spin a world and you into existence through My Consciousness of Love which is to say Our Oneness. I speak to all, not just a few who are esteemed. Only in the world is anyone considered a cut or two above anyone else.

      You must know that judgment is not My Way of Thinking. Judgment tires out everyone. I love and welcome every single one of My children. I leave no one out. Therefore, I am never tired.

      There is a vibration I strum through the Universe. From My Vibration of Love, a sense of My Meaning reaches you, possibly an image of what I sing of thee to you that you can pick up at any moment. I am not philosophy. I am real. If I speak or sing to anyone, it is of thee I sing.

      Hearing what I communicate to you is a natural event. It does not take training. If it takes anything, it takes daring. You see hearing Me as a far-off thing. You may never have considered it possible let alone likely. Once again, consider the possibility, for this possibility is a certainty.

      Here’s one way for you to begin, and this is to write to Me. I suggest writing to Me because you can also read your words. When you write down: Dear God, this is you speaking, and you pour out your heart to Me. It doesn’t matter where your heart turns out to be at this moment. Wherever you are, whatever you think of yourself or don’t think of yourself, you are coming closer to Me even when this may seem impossible to you or even contrary to your will.

      You are on your way to Me. You may skirt the possibility, yet even unwillingly, you can only be coming closer to Me. Regardless of whatever grudges you may hold about Me, you are making your way to Me.

      I am already as close to you as close can be. It is for you to approach Me. I am not missing. You have been stand-offish, perhaps aloof, distancing yourself from Me because of shyness and unspoken apprehensions. You don’t want to be overwhelmed. You don’t want to be kidnapped! You may fear that your world will turn topsy-turvy and you will be demolished.

      You may feel more important the way you appear right now. You fear letting go of yourself as though you will lose yourself. You not lose yourself. You will find your Self. This paste-up of you that you carry around never was your identity. Your present identity is a mock-up, a costume you picked up at the Good Will or Salvation Army. You may even have picked up a costume of good guy when inside you seethe. There are no limits to the costumes you find.

      In terms of Our Communication, none of this matters. A disguise can only be a disguise.

      Know once and for all, you don’t have to be a saint in the world’s view or your own view to hear Me as close as a bell right within your own heart and ears.

      All the power that is within Me is within you. You are a Gold Mine of Consciousness. You may pull on that mask and wear a veil of forgetfulness with determination, yet I never forget you. I echo to you unto Infinity.

      You may be so caught up in a spider web of the world that you may distract yourself from Me. Allow the possibility that I am listening to you now, yes, you, right now. Wherever you may reach or not reach in the ordinary world, I am reachable to you. I am not even across the aisle from you.

      Anyway, I suggest you write to Me. You may be surprised at what you say. Let writing to Me be something you do every day like combing your hair. You don’t expect miracles when you comb your hair every day.

      In writing to Me from your heart, what you are doing is introducing yourself to YOU.

      Nothing has to come from this writing. Nothing has to happen. You are not making demands. You are simply keeping in touch with yourself. You may not have known all that you care about. I already know you. You are writing and revealing yourself to you. Yet I will hear you. I listen to your heartbeat.

      Say whatever occurs to you. What you are doing is opening your heart. You are turning the key to your own heart.

      Begin with Dear God, and use a complimentary closing such as Love, and, of course, your name. In this way, you embrace Me and clarify that it is you who is writing to Me. You are listening to yourself.” – Heavenletter #5699 Published on: July 2, 2016 🙂

      Bless ALL 🙂

  • Patrick Gannon

    “…. while science, the other ruling god of our world, also defines nature to be of no spiritual value.” Mewabe, I enjoy your posts, but what is your source for this? What makes you think science says nature has no spiritual value? Have you read anything from Neil DeGrasse Tyson, or Carl Sagan, for example? Even Richard Dawkins goes on and on about spirituality he experiences – and Sam Harris wrote an excellent book “Waking Up; A guide to spirituality without religion,” much of which you would agree with, I suspect. But he’s a scientist; a neurosurgeon who knows that things like OBEs can be generated through stimulation of specific parts of the brain – so does that makes him (i.e. science), a threat to those who believe they’ve had such or similar experiences?

    There’s a big difference between religion and science. One of them actually works, and everyone can see it! Science does not have to make us less spiritual. Scientists speak of spirituality when looking into microscopes and telescopes – observing nature in more levels than the rest of us mortals are aware of.

    I understand the hostility to legacy religions, but they have nothing in common with science. I understand that legacy religions, particularly the Abrahamic religions would be hostile to science, because science destroyed the foundation for their god. (No six day creation, no global flood, no mass Exodus from Egypt, no Conquest of Canaan, and without these things, no basis for Yahweh). Religions are based on beliefs and faith which is almost always a case of pretending to know things you don’t know.

    Science is not based on beliefs, but on evidence, so the spirituality that derives from science, such as that expressed by Sagan and Tyson, for example, might be said to be the more truthful spirituality. I struggled with the hostility to science that I found in the New Age movement since it was supposedly not based so much on that Abrahamic god, but just like any other religion, it’s based on beliefs, whether those have to do with Reiki or chakras or crystals or OBEs, automatic writing, oneness or quantum woo. And beliefs without evidence mean lying to ourselves – telling our brains we believe something the brain knows it has no evidence for.

    In recent decades, Christianity has become more and more the “religion of hostility to the other.” This increasing hostility seems to track alongside the rising level of knowledge about the undermined foundations for their religious beliefs. Ten years ago very few people knew that the word “Hell” was incorrectly translated by the Church or knew that there was no evidence for the mass Exodus (and hence Moses, whom Neale believes(d) to have been a real person), or the genocidal conquest of Canaan. It wasn’t widely known ten years ago that DNA evidence does away with any two-person bottleneck in human evolution, which means no Adam and Eve, no fall from grace, no original sin, nothing for which we need to believe, say and do the right things in order to be saved. None of that stuff happened, and that realization is slowly spreading among Christians, and with it internal individual and societal cognitive conflicts are growing, and with that, the hostility is rising….. or so it appears to me. In discussions here with people who refer to themselves as spiritual, the hostility is no less if beliefs are challenged, than they are on any fundamentalist or Catholic forum I might participate in. The problem is not what the beliefs are – the problem is the beliefs themselves. I am becoming ever more convinced of this.

    If there is to be an individual revolution or uprising, then it can only come about by linking vast numbers of people together in unified effort – and without science that wouldn’t be possible. Smoke signals just wouldn’t get the job done. I would like to suggest that it is an error to demonize science because it insists on evidence rather than belief. I don’t think belief is healthy for us. I think Neale really wants to help humanity, and he has some wonderful ideas, but I think he’s going about it all wrong by insisting that we change our beliefs to his beliefs (just like any other religion) rather than question whether it is beliefs themselves that are the problem.

    Sadly, I think Mewabe may be right about future events, but just as one could easily utter prophesy about the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem prior to the fact, it’s not a very great stretch to prophesize some bad stuff headed our way. It would be more surprising if we found a way to avert it. We need something like the Zika virus to convince the Catholic Church to do away with its Iron Age policies on sex, so we can get about the one thing that might make a difference, and that’s to reduce our population growth gradually, rather than catastrophically.

    • I think it was on 60 minutes or something where the church admitted it knew Newton was right & told him they (the church) believed him, but that his new knowledge was too dangerous for the public & so the truth was hidden, but not denied, by the church.

      I do have an article where a priest tells how hell was a made up concept in order to control the people. I posted it on Facebook.

      Many do make science their religion, same with sports. Spirituality is the bridge to science & religion & to all life. It’s only a matter of time.

    • mewabe

      The Bible is obviously not history but mythology, and should be read and understood as such for those who are interested, a group from which I happily exclude myself, because Middle Eastern cultures (from which Christianity arose) do not resonate in any way with me, rooted as they are in “God/Allah/Yahweh speaks”.

      If people listened to the tees, the rivers, the animals, the wind, the mountains, to life itself, rather to what they think or imagine is God (such as a bearded man in the sky), we might be better off.

      Science is a vast field comprised of many disciplines and individuals. Evidently I have nothing against it, but I am always suspicious of anything that proposes to rule our lives, whether it is religious or spiritual dogma (yes there is such a thing as spiritual dogma), political ideology, science (or pseudo-sciences like psychiatry which forces children to be medicated in the school system) or technology. That’s what I meant by the words “science, the other ruling god”. Anything that is used to rule our live mentally becomes just like religion and a new god, and a likely tyrant.

      It seems that most humans have a need to police their own thoughts and that of other people. There is a little Hitler hiding within everyone’s brain, across the political spectrum and from the atheist to the ultra religious, and everywhere in between. Have you noticed? I personally have no problem with any belief, thought, concept, idea, realistic or fantastic, as long as none of it is forcefully imposed on anyone else. If this way of being free and letting others be free means anarchy, so be it, I am all for it!

      • Patrick Gannon

        Thanks for the explanation, Mewabe. I didn’t think you were really that hostile to science. You suggest that if people listed to trees, rivers, wind and mountains we might be better off. I propose a little sympathy for those who will never even see a forest or rivers or mountains… Technology can bring these things to them in terms of meditative streaming of the sounds of wind, rain, ocean, but getting the real thing may be difficult for many people. To let more people enjoy these things – we need fewer people – and science has the answer for that, even though some religions would rather see Armageddon than get out of bedrooms they don’t belong in.

        I’d also point out that anything that is used to rule our lives mentally, can only do so if we permit it. One of the few really useful things I got from my sojourn into New Age land was the idea of mindfulness. That turns out to be one of the most useful things ever for me. Not only does it keep me from wasting time thinking about things I can’t change – like some perceived insult by some jerk, but it’s easier to control my mind and command it to be more open to things that challenge my beliefs, and not to automatically resort to confirmation bias for current beliefs. It’s so easy to look for things that reinforce one’s beliefs, but the real mind power is in being able to specifically look for things to challenge those beliefs. Doing so, eased me out of New Age land.

        I would not favor anarchy. Complexity requires organization and cooperation, and we are very complex people in a very complex world. We need to figure out how to work together. Neale’s way is to speak of how we are all ONE, by being part of the same consciousness, but this is too ethereal and may be complete bunk. It’s a complete unknown at this point. What we can know is that we are all ONE with respect to the human genome. Each of us, to use Neale’s term, is an individuation of the whole genome. We don’t need consciousness to be all ONE – we are already all ONE, and the question is whether that genome is going to survive. I like Elon Musk because he’s convinced we have to get our genome off this planet so that it’s in safety deposit boxes, so to speak – on different planets, because going back to the original post – we may indeed be on the verge of extinction – meaning the end of our genome.

        • mewabe

          Thanks for the answer Patrick…
          All beliefs, assumptions, perceptions, concepts, ideas should be questioned or challenged constantly…that’s a form of “permanent revolution-evolution” I endorse! Beside, the only constant in life is change, so we better get with the program if we want to float and swim rather than sink.

          Anarchy does not mean disorder or disorganization. It means self-empowerment, self-government, having no authority above you and no one below you. As Native Americans say: “don’t walk ahead of me, don’t walk behind me, walk beside me.” That’s equality, and that’s cooperation based on equality.

          About oneness, I understand it differently than Neale. I don’t think we are part of one consciousness. I think that oneness means that all life is interconnected and interdependent. That’s obvious at the physical level, and it is becoming obvious at the mental, emotional, psychological levels. It is also obvious at the material level, in terms of world trade, economies, resources, pollution, wars, etc…For people who resist it or feel uncomfortable with it, we don’t even need to bring the spiritual dimension into this idea of oneness. A true understanding of interconnection and interdependence, with all its ramification, would be enough to bring peace and cooperation in the world, without even a word about spirituality or the debated existence of a divine source.

          We need to bridge differences, not argue about theology at this point…we need to see how what people have in common, and what they can agree with, can help our world. This would be a wiser and more practical approach.

          I don’t think that the human specie will vanish on this earth, at least not until the sun becomes a red giant. But our civilization will be drastically transformed, and needs to be as it is totally unsustainable. Whether we create the change willingly and wisely or nature creates it for us by kicking us in the rear end is up to us. I personally think that we will be kicked because the present world is totally addicted to its lifestyles.

  • Lloyd Bradsher

    Been gone by choice for some time now, but when I read this it seems we are still caught up in thinking that Creator, God, whatever you wish to name it, exist outside of each of us and our environment. The discussion about how we save others from themselves is as old as ever, when what we really must find is how to save ourselves first. We can not and never could save others, as it is their choice not ours that saves them.
    Science has proven that everything is connected, we are all made up of the same elements, and even thoughts are energy manifest within the physical plane. Our perspective of this energy connection determines how we view our personal relationship to Creator as part of us. Science is just a tool to help us explain and expand our understanding of SELF, Creator, so for me when I could view others as part of SELF, the joy that shined forth lights up Life. So the idea of religion that there is a god outside of our world/physical plane experience just does not resonate within me. Everything is part of Creator, and I exist within Creator, as well as all existence, so my existence is about showing this in my life experience and interaction with others.
    So the question is why would I worry about saving our existence, when reality is we all are already within the flow of Creator Energy? The struggle to save others is egoistical, because the fact is we CAN NOT save anyone except ourselves when we change our perspective of SELF. I raised children and have many grandkids, and I love them all deeply but part of the lesson of raising kids is to allow them to be themselves and learn their own lessons and create their own lives that feel good to them. The way I lived my life is the best way I can teach others about Creator within each of us.

    • Patrick Gannon

      Mind if I make a point for conversational purposes? I don’t think I overtly disagree with anything you said, but you made a point that bears more discussion.

      “Science has proven that everything is connected,” might be a bit overstated. First we have to start with what is meant in saying “everything is connected.” The sense in which that phrase is meant may have significant bearing on how valid the statement is and what “proof,” if not “evidence” is provided to support that view. There is very little that I can find on this subject that doesn’t come from new age-ish publications. I haven’t yet found anything from a mainstream scientific journal – but I haven’t looked that hard yet. There are explanations based on quantum mechanics that “demonstrate” (not prove), that everything is “connected” in the same sense that whatever you do to one particle has indirect effects on all others. If I move one molecule of water in a bathtub, every other molecule of water is going to shift a tiny bit. Does that make them “connected?” Are we all in a field like a tub of water, such that anything affecting the field affects the whole thing? How significant is that, given that our “bathtub” is pretty big! I don’t know that mainstream science would agree that anything has been “proven,” or that there is even an agreement by what “connected” means.


      • Patrick Gannon

        I would like to offer up another idea for the concept of “self” that is not so nebulous and based on vague definitions of “connectedness,” but instead is based on something very real, very measurable and observable, and that is very pertinent to our current place in history – seemingly headed for a waterfall with no paddles on-board…

        Our “connected self,” I propose, is our human genome. We all have it. We’re all “connected” to each other and to all living things by it. When we express altruistic love and compassion for others, we start with those whose genome is closest to our own – our kids and their offspring, however, it seems we evolved this trait, not for personal survival, but for the survival of the entire genome. Evolving altruism was beneficial for our (and other) species. The genome is the oneness we can point to, and know for sure that it exists. No belief is necessary. Isn’t that enough to work with? Why do we need new beliefs to face the problems we face? When you get down to it, we are simply mechanical, yet apparently sentient, carriers for the real life here – the real oneness – the genome.

        Can we agree that preserving our physical oneness, the human genome is a worthy goal? If so, how do we go about it? Elon Musk wants to put it on different planets and space stations. Mewabe’s approach is the more likely – something catastrophic will thin the population, as it did in the dark ages, to the eventual and significant benefit of the genome. The problem with such approaches, is that a catastrophic thinning can go too far. The earth has mass extinctions roughly every 62 million years, and the dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago… Should we be debating whether connectedness has something to do with consciousness, which we don’t understand yet, or should we be debating how best to preserve the human genome from the inevitable?

        • Spiritual_Annie

          “Should we be debating whether connectedness has something to do with consciousness, which we don’t understand yet, or should we be debating how best to preserve the human genome from the inevitable?” (Patrick Gannon)

          To be fair, Patrick, that sentence ought to have a similar caveat for science that it does for consciousness: how best to preserve the human genome which we don’t understand yet. There is, according to science itself, more “junk” in the human genome than parts which science understands. We (regular people) can only “know” what science understands (or believes it does) until the next best detector/smasher/discovery is made, or what the people who control information want us to know. How is that a more valid “knowing” than “knowing” the earth is flat or round, both of which have been believed true by science?

          And, if it’s “inevitable,” it can’t be done. Look it up. Why debate anything at all if we’re just doomed?


          • Patrick Gannon

            Ok, I’ll change it to “which we don’t fully understand yet.” I don’t see how this changes anything. Yeah, we have a lot more to learn about the human genome, but what I said was valid – we all share it and we know this beyond any reasonable doubt. We don’t have a clue as to whether there is any sort of shared consciousness.

            I have to take issue with your line about only knowing what they want us to know. The way scientific information becomes known is by publishing it in public scientific journals. If you want to know something – read the journals. There are no “science police” who dole out knowledge based on what they want everyone else to know – it’s religion that does that.

            I don’t know that it can be said that science ever believed the earth was flat – sailors have known for as long as people have sailed that the earth is round because you can see masts rising on the horizon as you get closer to them. In any event, science certainly has made errors – but the very fact that these errors were discovered and corrected confirms that the scientific process is the best way to move forward – given that it is based on objective evidence, unlike the “knowing” that is purely subjective when it comes to things like consciousness.

            OK, Miss Nit-Pik, I’ll revise the last line to: “should we be debating how best to preserve the human genome from that which seems inevitable to many?” Maybe I should hire you as my editor.

            We can be concerned about the survival of the shared human genome, a real thing known to exist, or we can be concerned about a shared consciousness for which no evidence exists. The second approach basically says it’s OK for human life to end because the consciousness lives on – but what if it doesn’t?

          • Spiritual_Annie

            “Miss Nit-Pik”? Name calling is one of the oldest tricks in the book, a fail-safe for when logic fails.

            My point (which I made) is that science doesn’t stand still even when we think we know the answers. You make statements that we are to accept as correct when even science cannot be certain. Yet I sit here typing this, with all of my senses intact. Which is my reality? Knowing I exist is.

            You believe you know everything scientists know? Wow. I believe you’re deluding yourself.

            And, what if it does?


          • Patrick Gannon

            No sense of humor…(!) OK, no surprise there. I’ll make a note for future reference.

            You got me to change two sentences, Miss Annie. Few people are able to do that. I agreed with your editing suggestions. I see it as nit-picking, and I doubt my original language created that much confusion; but two points for you! Congrats!

            I agree that science doesn’t stand still even when we think we know the answers. That sounds like something I would say. I’m not sure what point you are making since we seem to agree on this point.

            What statement did I make that you are to accept as correct when even science is not certain? We don’t know everything, but we are certain that humans have a genome and that we are all related to each other (and indirectly with other species). I doubt there’s anyone here who would question the reality of the human genome, is there?

            I would also agree that as you sit there with your physical, testable, observable, senses intact, that you know that you exist… unless that “knowing” or “awareness” is an illusion – which we don’t “know” yet! What you don’t know objectively is whether your consciousness survives your physical presence, and whether it is shared with anyone or everything else. These are only conjectures for which there is only subjective evidence.

            That you exist physically – including your genome, is supported with overwhelming objective evidence (however there is always the slim possibility that we are a simulation). Few people doubt that you and your share of the genome exist – so why don’t we focus on preserving that which we know exists – or are pretty darn sure of – versus that which we have no objective evidence for? Isn’t saving our genome a worthy effort? If the focus is on believing that consciousness survives the genome, that could spell our doom if it turns out to be wrong. It strikes me at times like mankind wants to snuff out the genome, as though it recognizes some defect, or has been convinced that such exists and can’t be overcome, kind of a self-inflicting Noah’s flood.

            And where did I say that I believe I know everything scientists know? I very rarely use the word “believe” when referring to myself, and I would never pretend to think I know everything scientists know and I’m confident that I have never asserted that. But we’ve played this straw man game before, so I’m calling your bluff.

            Now, to your last line – “what if it does?” I assume by “it” that you mean some sort of shared consciousness. If it does survive death, then I see it as a bonus. If it exists then it’s not illogical to assume that this shared consciousness would like us, as part of it, to preserve the genome of which it is a part and which is a part of it – else why bother having evolved it in the first place. It would be a demonstration of wasted opportunity and failure. I neither believe nor disbelieve in this consciousness; I only point out that there seems to be no real objective evidence for it, and it makes sense to me, to put our efforts into preserving something we know exists – our genome, our species – real people.

            I agree with Elon Musk that we need to get our genome off this planet so there’s a ‘safety deposit’ box of humans so to speak, in case we blow ourselves up or are destroyed by some sort of cosmic or man-made catastrophe. Mass extinctions happen about every 62 million years, according to what I’ve read, and it’s been over 65 million. We’re due.

            The focus on shared consciousness strikes me as being just as dangerous as the religious types who look forward with glee to Armageddon and the end of the earth. It seems to create a complacency such that we don’t care; and it doesn’t matter if we wipe ourselves out because our consciousness will survive anyway. Both of these beliefs may lead us to doom – if anyone actually cares about that.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            Without hunting down specific quotes, I have read many, many posts wherein you refer to “truth” and “knowing” as those things that can be “objectively” proven by science, either stated outright, implied or inferred. I’ve also read many posts where you say, in one way or another, that if it can’t be figured out by the brain or science, then (whatever the subject is) can’t be accepted.

            What you continue to leave out is one of the basic precepts of science, which is that the act of observation itself affects the outcome of any experiment. Therefore, no experiment is purely objective and cannot be accepted as THE truth. Additionally, the quality of the tools used in experiments continues to advance, including the evolution of the human brain and mind. Whatever may be thought to be “true” today could be proven wrong tomorrow. (And that’s leaving out the other tools many you use but discount such as psychic ability, out-of-body experiences, personal enlightenment, etc., that might also show us something science has not, or not yet.)

            Therefore, a scientific “fact” that has been affected by the observer and which might be disproven with the next great advancement is not more true to me than an experience I’ve had myself.

            I have proof consciousness is not individual and that it survives death through my own experiences.

            How do you know you’re hearing all that’s been discovered by reading scientific journals? Many carry advertising, and where there’s money there’s the possibility of influencing the content. Do you really believe if there’s something that threatens the planet that we’ll be told, thus creating mass hysteria? That when mistakes are found later that open companies to massive lawsuits, that information is shared freely and openly?

            Who’s deluding themselves?


          • Patrick Gannon

            I would add the words “as true” to the end of your first paragraph; but essentially that is my stance. If we can’t objectively prove it, we probably shouldn’t believe it for the sake of our mental health.

            When you speak of observation affecting the outcome, I assume you refer to the double-slit experiment in which observation (which really means “measurement” in that instance – it’s not really observing) of particles leads them to behave in a different way; but the act of measuring means using light particles to “see” or more accurately “measure” other particles, opens up the very real possibility that the ‘observation’ particles affect the experimental particles. If I bounce light off the particles headed to the double slits, so I can see which route they take, how do I know that the particles that I use to measure (or observe) those particles didn’t affect them and cause their behavior to happen? Scientists are still working on this and trying to come up with ways to remove potential interference. Don’t take this quantum observation strangeness to for example, assume the moon isn’t there if nobody is looking at it, or that your upstairs disappears when you go downstairs, which is pseudoscientific woo without evidence.

            I agree that what is accepted as true today could be found to be otherwise in the future, including those who believe it’s true that consciousness, for example, can survive without the brain. We may prove that one way or the other some day; but in the mean time to believe either position without verification is to lie to, or delude, oneself. I have my suspicions, and I assign probabilities based on what information we have – but an open, skeptical mind is the only rational option when we don’t have all the answers.

            Your subjective “proof” is of no value to me or anyone else from a scientific standpoint, because you have no objective evidence for it. Subjective evidence can have some value – if it’s based on objective experience. In other words a professional mountain climber might suggest that “N” is the best way to get to the top of the mountain. I might “believe” him based on the objective evidence of his experience having climbed this or other mountains. When you can illustrate objective evidence for your subjective beliefs, then those beliefs would carry more weight – but without it they are good only for you.

            I have not suggested that I’m hearing “all” that has been discovered by science. (Straw man – can you get through a post without one?). I have a job and don’t have time to read journals all day long, but you are going to have to provide at least one example of how a legitimate peer reviewed journal such as Nature has been influenced by advertising revenue. I’m not saying that’s never happened, but I see no evidence for it – what have you got to offer? Like “Snopes” the credibility of the material is dependent on avoiding such influences, otherwise the journals would be useless if this happened to any significant degree.

            As to whether scientists would squash knowledge of impending disaster – I don’t know about that. Would a government do that? Of course it would, and I suspect that the scientists with the discovery would have a hissy fit.

            Who’s deluding themselves? Well, not me. If I have no objective evidence then I don’t know and I’m not going to delude myself by believing it. The brain is unbelievably unreliable. It fills in the blanks when information is missing with incorrect information. There are many people languishing in prison today because people believed their brains when they pointed a finger and said: “He did it,” when the DNA evidence later proves conclusively that “he did not do it.” The least reliable evidence in a trial is eye witness testimony because eye witnesses seldom agree with each other in full.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I’ve replied, but it’s being held for approval because of a link.


          • mewabe

            Hey Patrick, reading your response to Annie, I have a comment.

            Quote: “Don’t… assume the moon isn’t there if nobody is looking at it.”

            This is partly true. There is a mass and energy there, even if no one is looking at it. But it is not the moon, it is pure energy. We translate energy through our senses (touch, smell, vision, sound) so that our brains “read” energy, so to speak, and give form and substance to what would otherwise be as unknown as a sound wave without a pair of ears to hear it. For a blind man, there is no moon, since his brain cannot use his sense of sight to make this mass/energy called the moon real to him. For a deaf individual, the world is silent.

            We do not “create” the world inside our brains as some people have suggested, but we read mass and energy as form, color, substance, temperature, feel and sound. And we do this in a highly subjective, individualistic manner. In other words the living energy structure that is the universe is intricately connected to our receptors, our physical senses, nervous system and brain, and does not make any sense (pun intended) without them.

            A fly sees and therefore experiences a different world than we do, because it has a different sight. Different sense receptors produce a different experience, therefore a different world. Animals that have an extremely acute sense of smell experience a different world than we do.

            So the moon exists for us humans, but it does not exist for an earth worm, because the worm does not have the sense receptor to translate the energy/mass we call the moon into anything real, such as a little speck in the night sky.

            You will probably say, “So what, what’s your point, who cares about worms?”
            My point is that all living creatures experience the universe subjectively, not objectively. Science is aiming for pure objectivity, for intangible truths. That’s a very noble effort. But are we truly meant to experience life objectively, since everything we experience, think and do is grounded in our physical senses, which themselves are subjective and uniquely human, as well as varying from individual to individual?

            This is more of a philosophical question by the way.

            My thoughts are that objective knowledge has very practical applications, and is very useful in the development of certain technologies, and the pursuit of a very reliable form of knowledge. Yet it is incomplete without subjective experience, which is the “human” (and beautifully imperfect) aspect of our being. Speaking of perfection, have you ever seen a perfectly symmetrical face? It is frightening and alien…and what a machine (or science) would most likely produce. Imperfection and subjectivity are awesome, and an intrinsic aspect of our humanness.

            So let’s not deny the validity and necessity of subjective experience, of which what we call spirituality is an aspect (as is art, poetry, music, love, dreams and imagination, see one of my older response to you).

          • Patrick Gannon

            I don’t devalue subjective experience, unless it is used as evidence or proof for objective questions. The worm may not experience the moon (actually, it might, as tidal pull or light that tells it when to reproduce), but that doesn’t change the fact that the moon is there. All the subjective ruminations of worms about that bright light in the sky, doesn’t change the fact that there is a moon up there. From my perspective, you’ve made a good argument for why we can’t trust subjective experience, in highlighting how individual it is. We all experience things differently, so how can we trust this subjective experience to give us anything useful when it comes to objective truths, given my experience is not the same as yours? Objectively there IS a moon and any subjective experience that says otherwise is incorrect. (Unless everything is an illusion, which is possible).

            That is not to say that subjective experience has no value. I’m sure many objective accomplishments came about because someone having a subjective experience came up with an idea to do things in a different and better way. Subjective experience in terms of beauty, art, music, nature, etc. are wonderful and useful things that give human lives value – but they are still subjective, and of little value in determining the reality of things like “souls” as many people understand that word. Just because one has subjective experiences doesn’t prove the existence of souls, gods, or afterlives. All we objectively know when it comes to gods, souls, afterlives, etc. is that we don’t know. What’s wrong with admitting that to ourselves?

          • mewabe

            Admitting that we don’t know.

            Yes, of course, this would be a giant step forward towards sanity.
            But that’s precisely what Taoism did, calling the force or energy or event that created the universe or caused it to come into being “the unnameable origin”, and further stating that the Tao that can be named or explained is not the Tao.

            Taoism, like Zen, is more of a philosophy than a spiritual discipline. It is a philosophy that proposes that wisdom and mental and physical health can be attained through attuning and aligning ourselves with nature, with the way of nature (the Tao). This is very close to the ancient Native American way, which also calls this unknown force “the great mystery”. Most Native Americans have no theology, they do not ascribe human qualities to this unknown force or energy or thing. This is why they have never argued about “religion” among themselves, at least not until they were forcefully converted to and brainwashed by Christianity at an early age in Indian schools.

            I was attracted to this form of Taoist and Zen philosophy from the get go (very young) and always rejected all forms of religious dogma, or theology. Today I also reject much of the new age dogma, or new theology.

            The reason? Obvious…for example, religions teach that there is a conflict between “good” and “evil”, that “evil” is to be avoided, and that “good” will win in the end. “God” and the “Devil” are at war, on earth and in “heaven”, accordingly. The new age postulates that there is a conflict between the “positive” and the negative”, that the “negative” is to be avoided, and the the “positive” will win in the end. Exact same dogma of division, separation and conflict between two competing forces, with different words.

            The new age is a “feel good” form of reformed Christianity, because it has eliminated guilt, fear and shame. This is why it appeals greatly to former Christians. I was never a Christian, so I can see right through it.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Good post Mewabe. I would part ways perhaps on the idea that exploration of outer space is odd, or that it manifests as a feeling of dislike or lack of interest towards earthly life. All the astronauts speak of their attachment to the earth when they look down on it. All are affected by that experience. It makes many of them take a larger role in preserving it when they get back. The very act of exploring, seeking new knowledge, new horizons, new secrets…that’s the very opposite of hiding and trying not to feel. The person who takes their life in hand to explore anything new, is “feeling” to the very limits of their senses!

            It may be necessary to leave earth in order to save it. We may need to get our genetic material and enough samples of earth’s biodiversity off of this planet, so that we can reseed it if necessary. And it may be necessary!

          • mewabe

            Yes, you have very good points about the feelings that come with seeing the earth from space. And the desire to explore unknown territories is very natural and human. Many scientists are awed by the complexity and beauty of nature and of the universe, and work towards protecting the environment.

            But short-sighted and idiotic commercial interests nevertheless forces almost everyone to be an agent of destruction, from the average individual generating an unbelievable amount of trash every year to the oil industry spilling oil from a pipeline in Saskatchewan and the US slyly building a new pipeline that is almost a carbon copy of the cancelled Keystone pipeline.

            Reseeding is about survival, but if we don’t learn our lessons at some point we will just keep repeating the same patterns and destroy our home wherever we go.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Mewabe, I agree that you have very valid concerns. Humanity has been looking forward to the end of the world, since biblical times. We actually have Christianity because of a failed prophecy in Jeremiah that Daniel, (which many scholars believe to be forged; i.e. there was no real Daniel) tried to fix by pointing to an end times by using a different math formula to arrive at approximately 30 CE – but given that we’re still here, that prophecy held by Paul and the mythical Jesus, failed too!

            As you mentioned, given this, what is there that would incent us to fix this place up? Those in the Abrahamic religions look forward with breathless anticipation to the end of the world in hopes of justifying Bronze and Iron Age beliefs. New Agers insist that we are all ONE, and can’t be destroyed, so even if we blow this place up, no harm, no foul. It seems to be the atheists and agnostics who are more interested in what we do here and now because we don’t think there’s anything coming after this.

            As long as people believe there’s something even more wonderful that comes after this, then we’ve got a real problem. There’s just no incentive to fix things, even for our children, because it will all be OK when they die too. If anything New Age just makes it worse, because we believe everything will be peaches and roses, no matter what happens; we don’t even have to worry about punishment. What’s not to like about the afterlife in that case? What reason is there to worry about this place?

            But what if this is all we get? If we all thought that this is all we got, would we change our ways?

          • mewabe

            I agree with you Patrick, atheists and agnostics have more of an incentive to save this planet. Believers tend not to care that much or to look forward to destruction, for the reasons you mentioned…and yes new agers are even worse, their denial of reality is unbelievable. If religion is the opium of the people, new age is the crack cocaine. Which may be why it has been so non threatening to the status quo, and consequently so promoted everywhere.

            I am different, because whether there is life after this or not, to me all life is worthy of respect, love and care, and shouldn’t be trashed. Nature is beautiful and should be inspiring awe and respect. Life is precious and should be appreciated, here and now.

            In the end, what might cause our demise may not be greed, hate, and all of the other shortcomings that are often mentioned, but plain human stupidity. We might destroy our home planet out of a simple lack of intelligence. That’s even sadder than if greed or hate were the cause, because there is no cure yet for a lack of intelligence. You cannot get inside an unintelligent mind and turn the key to basic common sense and comprehension (unless science finds a way!)

          • Patrick Gannon

            I wish I didn’t have to agree with you on this one: “We might destroy our home planet out of a simple lack of intelligence.” When I look at the two major candidates for President in our country, I fear that intelligences is indeed, in ever-shorter supply.

            On the other hand, from time to time there are bright notes. Pew Research recently declared that the largest religious voting block in the US is now the “nones” coming in at 21% of registered voters, while Catholics and Evangelicals tie at 20%, both of them having dropped as the “nones” increased. Not everyone is stupid!

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I’m not certain what you would consider “objective proof” other than a psi experiment or someone being able to find an object they owned in a previous life, both of which you’ve mentioned here before.

            I believe that I have objective proof of my out-of-the-ordinary experiences. I was given the sudden knowledge at the age of 12 that my eldest sister was pregnant, which was true. When I lived in California in my early 20’s, my other sister had three rear-end accidents, which I knew and confirmed when I called her each time. I also called my mother to ask if she’d heard from her mother because I sensed she was ill, only to find she’d been snowbound for days and was eating spoiled food. I called my mother again when I suddenly knew my sister was on her way to a family meal when her car broke down in a blizzard, and was able to tell my mother where the car was and that my sister was walking with her toddler and infant.

            I could go on with more examples of verified knowledge that came to me suddenly, as well as out-of-body experiences where I verified what I observed, and knowing exactly when my mother had passed over because she said goodbye to me after she did. The time of her death and the circumstances surrounding it were also verified. I need no further proof that there is much more to human abilities and consciousness than most accept. And I need no acceptance from others.

            As for your example of the moon, you are using your “unbelievably unreliable” brain and the experiences of others as “proof” that it exists. How is that more objective than the experiences I mentioned above? And how can you be certain that mine have no value for others when I share them? I often get positive responses when I share such things. I’ve been told I inspire others when I do so.

            I will have to do some research on the scientific journals when I have the time. I will also find the articles I read that Snopes isn’t as unbiased as it claims to be.

            From your many posts here at this site, it appears that you are convinced that consciousness is a function of the physical brain that doesn’t survive death. Yet you say above, in reference to there being no objective proof one way or the other if consciousness survives death, that “in the mean time to believe either position without verification is to lie to, or delude, oneself.” So I ask again: who’s deluding themselves?


          • Patrick Gannon

            Annie your experiences, while interesting, are subjective, and were not documented using rigorous standard scientific standards, right? Therefore they are extremely limited in value – basically they are of value to you alone. Your experiences may “inspire” others, but that doesn’t prove anything. ISIS members are “inspired” to throw gays off buildings because of their beliefs, so we must be very cautious of what we believe.

            The existence of the moon is verified by far more than subjective evidence from the brain. We’ve actually been there and brought back samples.

            Yes, we have an energy field that surrounds us. No, there is no evidence I am aware of that this indicates any direct communication. I don’t rule it out – I await the evidence. I think the possibility exists that such communication could take place. We know we can convert brain signals to IP packets and send them over the internet, convert them back to brain waves, and have another brain decode the word that was spoken or thought, at the other end. Whether we can do this wirelessly without an internet connection, human brain to human brain, remains to be seen (pretty unlikely I think), but if the brain is just data, just information, and it’s in an electrical format (which is what computer data is), then perhaps there’s some ability to go from brain to brain – but irrefutable evidence is required to make this factual.

            I am not fully convinced that consciousness emerges from the brain, and I read articles that promote both possibilities and stay on top of the latest research. I think it is likely that this is the case, but it’s not proven either way definitively yet, so I leave my options only. I admit my ignorance: I don’t know. That’s far superior to believing and telling myself that I do know something that my brain knows it doesn’t know. The subject of consciousness is very intriguing, but all we know for sure at this point, is that we don’t know, so why lie to ourselves and say we do know? How can that be healthy?

            You in no way illustrated that I am deluding myself. If I admit my lack of knowledge – how can that be delusional?

          • Spiritual_Annie

            “Annie your experiences, while interesting, are subjective, and were not documented using rigorous standard scientific standards, right? Therefore they are extremely limited in value – basically they are of value to you alone.”

            Wow. That’s an incredibly judgmental statement. I had to re-read it to make sure I understood what you wrote. And you are wrong. My experiences have had value for others, beyond inspiration.

            In the case of my grandmother being sick from spoiled food, my mother called her neighbor. That call not only got my grandmother the medical help she needed and fresh food, but she and her neighbor set up a system for signaling she was OK. If the blind in her bedroom wasn’t raised by 10:00a, Mrs. Quist was to check on her. That was very valuable.

            In the case of my sister and the blizzard, my eldest brother was able to find her walking along the highway carrying her two children. When he found her, she was already exhibiting the symptoms of hypothermia, confused about what happened and where she was. She and her children were treated at the ER. That had a great deal of value for many.

            When I shared one of my out-of-body experiences with the person I visited, she verified what I had observed of her in her home, alone, the previous night. That had value for her and our mutual friends because it opened them up to inquiry into the paranormal, and some to spirituality.

            It’s obvious that my experiences have no value for you. But to state that, simply because it wasn’t a controlled scientific environment, my experiences only have value for me is so judgmental as to be incredibly disrespectful. It reminds me of my father trying to convince me that, since he didn’t “recall” abusing me and it was only ever he and I in the room, the abuse couldn’t be verified and therefore wasn’t “true.” It made me incredibly sad that any experience he had with no witnesses wasn’t true for him, and I feel that same sadness for you. Your insistence on scientific proof cuts you off from so much. Can love be proven by the scientific method? Can the joy of watching children play be proven by the scientific method? Can the bond between mother and infant?

            If your reality includes only what can be proven by the scientific method, you are cutting yourself off from so very much. I pray that someday you’ll resolve your feelings of having been duped by Neale and open yourself up to other possibilities.


          • Patrick Gannon

            You love playing the victim, don’t you; and you would equate me with a sex abuser? That’s how your highest vision of yourself operates?

            I thought it was pretty clear I meant that your experiences had no evidentiary value. Your experiences bring nothing to the table in terms of determining objectively whether such experiences are real, imagined or merely coincidental. They are things that can only be believed, not known with any significant degree of probability. Carefully, and scientifically documenting them might increase their value as evidence, something Robert Monroe (Journeys Out of the Body) tried to do – although I did not find his material very convincing. Further I acknowledged that your experiences might be “inspirational” to others, even if they lacked evidentiary value.

            Can love or joy be proven? Sure they can. Why not, they are observable and measureable and create fingerprints – electrochemical reactions – in the brain. My acknowledged lack of knowledge regarding the existence of gods, afterlives and psi effects has no bearing on my ability to love and experience joy; though I recognize that if consciousness is a product of the brain, then these feelings, like free will, may be illusory.

            Out of body experiences can be manually stimulated. We’re coming to understand how that illusion happens. It has something to do with the strong feeling of owning a body that is ingrained in us. From an article on the subject: “Perhaps out-of-body experiences may end up being like synesthesia, a neurological phenomenon that was largely ignored during the mid-20th century. Synesthesia—which makes some people to automatically see colors in their brain when they read or hear letters, numbers and words—is now accepted, studied and understood.” Note that it’s a “neurological phenomenon.”

            Please don’t waste too much time feeling sad for me. I’m a pretty contented guy.

          • Spiritual_Annie

            I don’t see anywhere in my post where I play the victim. I pointed out that you devalue my experiences, and in the same manner that my father does. That had nothing to do with the abuse itself but with the way he views life and the world. He, too, places no value on anything that cannot be verified.

            I wasn’t equating your actions with the acts of a sex abuser, which I think was pretty clear. And, living from my grandest vision doesn’t mean I have to play doormat when someone discounts some of the most pivotal experiences of my life, whether by my father or you. Spirituality often involves awakening others by pointing out their patterned or rigid thought processes.

            I don’t consider feelings a waste of time, but rather my Soul expressing itself through my emotions. In my experience, there is so much more to life than contentment. There is awe, and ecstasy, and joyfulness, and transparent honesty, and openness to incredible possibilities, and deep internal investigation leading to growth, and bonding with others who feel those same emotions and have similar experiences.

            I don’t consider the prayers I say for you a waste of time, either.

      • mewabe

        If I may interject, we don’t have to look very far to understand interconnection and interdependence.

        Language itself is deceiving, particularly western languages. For example we (not scientists but regular people) generally think of a tree, or a human body, or a planet, as an object. They are actually processes, not separate objects. The tree is processing sunlight, carbon monoxide and nutrients from the soil, including water…it is therefore connected to the air and the ground, and would not exist without them. It is interdependent, because the soil also benefits from the tree’s dead leaves nourishing it, and young, small plants benefit by growing in its protective shade. The tree emits oxygen, which benefits all mammals. The same principles of interconnection and interdependence apply to every other life forms, nothing exists in a vacuum. Let’s keep it simple!

        And yes, there is a lesson in this…the lesson is to end the common illusion of the separate ego wrapped in a bag of skin and alienated from the universe. Call it a spiritual or philosophical lesson, it makes little difference, the point is that we are not separate but intimately connected to our natural environment, and yes, dependent upon it, which calls for a return to humility, or a connection with hummus, the very earth, meaning nature and all life.

        • Great reply! I have said that I break down the entire CwG cosmology into one word. Beingness. What is it we desire to be & experience? Move into that.

          • mewabe

            Thanks Marko! Beingness is all there is, whether we are conscious of it or not. All life is in the process of being, in relationship with all life. We could say that the universe is as s symphony (not a very original thought, it has been said before) and every minute particle of it has a role to play.

  • Awareness

    I found this fascinating documentary titled “Erik’s Documentary” on youtube about “communication” between a Mother and her “dead” son from the “afterlife” 🙂 Below is part of the video description:

    “Dear Viewer:

    The journey on which you’re about to embark will take you through stories that are deeply personal and involves a relationship between a mother and her son.

    As a physician raised by two atheists, I had no personal belief system about life after death. In a word, I was a confirmed skeptic. As my journey progressed, my mind opened. It is my sincerest hope that yours will open as well and that you will have a greater understanding of your own life and what’s to come ahead.” – Dr. Elisa Medhus MD 🙂

    This lead me to read the book “My Life after Death A Memoir from Heaven” by Erik Medhus with Elisa Medhus MD. Very fascinating, it reminds me of the book “Home with God” by Neale Donald Walsch 🙂

    Bless ALL 🙂

    • What I’d like to know about in the afterlife is what happens to the mass shooters, their victims, the murderers, the cruel & violent people? Do people in the afterlife get in touch with those on earth to help them solve their own murders, crimes etc. Of course, one never hears of this in such books.

      • Patrick Gannon

        I don’t want to encourage belief in such things, but Dr. Michael Newton’s “Journey of Souls” touches on your question Marko. The problem of course, is that there is no objective evidence for what people say when they are regressed. Newton claims to regress people back to the time between lives when people meet each other and even arrange in advance to do bad things to each other for the purpose of personal growth. By now, thousands and thousands of these regressions have been performed by people trained by Newton, and I’m unaware of anyone delivering up any objective evidence. You’d think by now someone would have said, “In 1478 I buried my mother’s necklace in exactly such and such a place” and then go dig it up. I was excited about the prospects when I first read the book quite some time ago, but as much time has passed and there are no new announcements providing any significant objective evidence for this or any other psi event, I’ve become more skeptical. I can see what looks to me like influence from Newtons’ work embedded in Neale’s work.

        We have to face the real possibility, if not likelihood that there is nothing beyond death but the composting of our brains and bodies. I think most people really believe this deep inside, even if they don’t admit it, else why not leave revenge till the afterlife? People seem to need their revenge in this life, probably because deep down, they don’t think there’s any afterlife.

        • Well most people believe in the afterlife. We have caterpillars whom turn into butterflies as one of life’s messages of the hereafter.

          But whether one believes in the afterlife or not is simply an individual philosophical decision.

          I had a beloved cat pass on & yes she paid me a visit a few years later for about 15, 20 minutes. Can’t explain it. We don’t have the technology (yet) but there it was for me in my experience.

          Our recent cat got lost for a few days & a psychic animal communicator got the inside of the garage description where the cat was, from the cat. Plus a google map of energy points where the cat might be. He was right!

          I had a cat who was afraid of a friend of ours Mary who was under 5 feel tall. I ask the cat why & the cat responded that it was not afraid of Mary at all, but that she simply gave too much energy toward him & so the cat ran away. I told this to my skeptical & bemused friend & she changed her approach & so that cat become more receptive.

          I walked out of a movie last April of 2015 & was in a great state of inner peace for like 3 days. How do you explain such things? You can’t you can only experience them.

          In countries like India reincarnation is a more strongly held societal belief. People can recognize stuff from their past. I believe the current Dali Lama was picked that way when he showed the monks what glasses or some items he had from a past life.

          So I know from my experience that there is more out there than science currently understands. I read an Aol article of a women who prayed to her decease grandpa for help in money matters & she dreamed he came to her with an idea to create a hook for keys in a women’s purse. She became a millionaire & has added more products.

          In the 90’s I belonged to a group that studied the hereafter by listing to white noise, tape recorders & computers. This stuff is so marginalize but I find it fascinating. Never say never is my motto.

          But I have no problems with atheists & those who don’t believe in an afterlife even though I do.

          James Twyman has a book out called the “Barn dance” and in it his former wife is murdered & he finds out the reason why & who. Plus, he finds a lucid dream technique to communicate with the other side. This book may be of interest to you.

          Thanks for the discussion.

          • Patrick Gannon

            Well, not to be too argumentative, but most people once believed the earth was flat and that the sun and stars revolved around it. We are as knowledgeable of any possible afterlives as they were about our cosmos. They didn’t have the tools to study it, and we don’t have objective tools to study afterlives. I don’t see what the caterpillar has to do with this – that’s a purely biological function that evolved over millennia because it provided a survival advantage for that insect.

            Your stories about cats are very interesting, but completely subjective, and of no value to anyone else as evidence for any afterlife. There’s nothing you described that could not have happened through pure coincidence and happenstance. Indeed what you propose is not ordinary, but very rare, and that by its very nature means it is very improbable. Miracles, for example are not standard fare, thus they are highly improbable and one must start from a position of skepticism, if one is to be fair in examining the concept.

            I’m sorry to say that we just can’t trust our brains. We know that people see different things at accidents or crime scenes. We know that it’s very easy for the brain to fool us. We all have “visions” or “dreams” or “delusions” sometimes similar to what you described, but they are of no value without objective evidence because they are by their very nature, highly improbable. To learn more about how little you can trust your brain, watch the series “Brain Games.”

            Let’s say for the sake of argument, that your brain is tricking you. In that case, it means you are delusional, right? Now if it doesn’t affect your normal life, that’s OK, I guess, but maybe it means there is something about your brain or mental health that needs attention. I’m not suggesting you are nuts, just pointing out that there have been many people with revelations for which there is no basis. The Apostle Paul for example received everything he knew about Jesus from revelations. He didn’t learn a single thing about Jesus from other people (probably because he thought Jesus was a celestial god who never actually existed on earth – it was the author of Mark who apparently made Jesus “human”). Paul got all his information about what we now call Christianity from visions – he was delusional. There was no first man (Adam) from whom sin and death came into the world. We know that beyond any doubt today, yet his delusions resulted, with help from Augustine, in creating a religion that persists in spreading fear to this very day. Thus I think we have to be very careful when it comes to visions, hallucinations, dreams, etc. Manson, Koresh, Jones, Applewhite, Yates, etc. all had visions that resulted in people dying. Why were their visions false and yours true? How can you prove that?

          • You see these as negative experiences for people, mine are positive. Anyway, it’s fine that you don’t agree. I have no need for you to agree with me & I’m not offended by your questions but respect them. There is just a difference of opinion & experience.

            I published a book recently. In the process a young man came to me saying he had dreams of working on a creative project with me. He thought it was music but when he saw my book he got really enthusiastic & he’s been helping me promote the book in ways I would not have thought.

            The caterpillar is a metaphor. The computer I write this on is a metaphor for communication & interconnectedness. I’m a creative person who writes, does music, art etc. I can hold seemingly contradictory truths in the same place & not be bothered. I’m not attached to my own opinions either. But I do enjoy many of them.

            When the cat told me about my friend Mary, I was so surprised at what I got, I would never had expected to receive that information, but it proved useful & I saw it play out in real life. The animal psychic who help find our kitty also worked out in real life.

            Live your truth, I’ll live mine & at points they will converge & also separate. It’s part of evolution & the ability of our beliefs to move beyond the stereotypes of society.

            P.S. I believe mental illness can be treated many ways, no one size fits all. Now this week an NPR radio show had a one hour segment of a town in Belgium where mentally ill people stayed at peoples homes sometimes for decades. The people in this town did not treat them, but accepted them with all their quirks & they actually got along fine. This went contrary to my beliefs but I now have shifted them as a result of this show. One man saw tigers coming out of the walls in the bed room! The host family went in a scared the tigers away with a broom. It worked! If they came back they’d since & repeat.

          • Patrick Gannon

            “You see these as negative experiences for people…” That’s not entirely true. The experiences themselves would be described in positive terms by the people experiencing them – but IF they are delusional, then perhaps having these experiences – and acting on them – could have undesirable repercussions – just like religious revelations do.

            Sorry – the way you worded your post – I didn’t pick up on the butterfly metaphor. I get it. The problem is, we don’t know if there’s a “butterfly” stage for us, or if this is all we get. I propose that we live as though this is all we get until and unless we learn otherwise.

            I agree that we have much to learn about how to treat people with mental illnesses, including in some cases, delusions and hallucinations. A paper I read recently suggested that the best technique might be to “overwrite” what is presently written in the brain with consistent, gradual information that “erases” what was previously there. There’s a saying, that when synapses fire, the brain is wired – and with that another saying, that every time you read or speak something you make another copy in your brain. Say that again – every time you read or speak something you make another copy in your brain. By doing this you can “overwrite” what was there before – or so the theory goes. It’s like what we do with computers. When we delete a file, it’s still in the hard drive, and over time we overwrite it with new information, so that eventually the old stuff can’t be retrieved any longer. This sounds a little like what the townspeople in the show you saw are doing. I’d like to learn more about that – it’s pretty cool.

          • Look for NPR story “For Centuries, A Small Town Has Embraced Strangers With Mental Illness”

            I do a lot of overwriting, reprograming all the time for my own spiritual practice & growth. It is not laborious, but simply my way of creating a better experience for my self as we move about in this beautiful & troubling world of ours.

            To do so does take practice, discipline & a passion to elevate ones consciousness & experience.

        • NealeDonaldWalsch

          I have never read Michael Newton’s work, Patrick, so his work has not influenced my own. It is clear, however, that, as CWG says: “Truth is truth, no matter what the source.”

          • Patrick Gannon

            I will take you at your word, that you have not read his works, though you may have been indirectly influenced by them through other sources. Lots’ of folks jumped on his bandwagon. I’m going to also guess that you’ve read Heinlein’s “Stranger in a Strange Land.” (?)

            In any event, as I’ve said many times – I neither believe nor disbelieve, but await objective evidence rather than believe what others suggest I should believe, while my brain knows it has no evidence for these things. I don’t think that’s healthy. (It certainly wasn’t for me!).

          • Patrick Gannon

            I’ve been thinking about that “truth is truth” line and can’t help wondering about all the thousands of gods and religions throughout human history, each of which claimed it had the real truth. “Truth is truth, no matter the source” requires a great deal of selectivity in picking out the “truths” in the religions that you have disparaged for many years now. Truth is about what one can objectively confirm to be valid. Truth is truth no matter the source is not true of the belief you expressed in CwG that Moses was a real person and Jesus performed real miracles. It’s unlikely that Jesus was even a real person, and we know beyond any reasonable doubt today that there was no mass Exodus out of Egypt and no conquest of Canaan by Hebrews (Persians yes, Jews no).

      • Awareness

        There is no “judgement” or “punishment” in the “afterlife” 🙂 These “incidents” can be explained as part of “spiritual contracts” 🙂 And this reminds me of the following remembrances from the book “Home with God” by Neale Donald Walsch:

        2nd Remembrance: You are the cause of your own death. This is always true, no matter where, or how, you die

        3rd Remembrance: You cannot die against your will 🙂

        Yes “people” in the “afterlife” do get in touch with those on Earth 🙂 There is a video on youtube where Erik Medhus (from afterlife) assists with interviewing the “San Bernardino Shooters”. The youtube video is titled “Afterlife Interview of the San Bernardino Shooters”. This interview was facilitated via a “spirit translator” (a medium). Check out other videos covering similar scenarios on the youtube channel called “Channeling Erik” 🙂

        There is also an interesting video titled “Channeling Erik: Jamie and Erik Communicate Through an RF Detector” where Erik Medhus (from afterlife) cause the light on an RF Detector to “turn ON” 🙂

        Fascinating 🙂

        Bless ALL 🙂

        • Read below my response to Patrick & a book I reference. I’ll take a look at the youtube video too. Peace.

          • Awareness

            Thanks, I read your response a second time 🙂 Fascinating story about the cat. I will look into James Twyman’s “the barn dance” which you suggested 🙂

            Eternal peace Marko, Eternal Peace 🙂

            Blessings 🙂

  • francisco

    Hi Patrick, I was wondering if you’ve read any of Dr. Joe Dispenza’s material or seen any of his videos.

    • Patrick Gannon

      I have not read his material or seen his videos, though I have seen some of “What the Bleep Do We Know.” As you probably know, most mainstream scientists refer to it as pseudoscience, and point out that most people can’t tell when quantum mechanics leaves off and quantum nonsense begins. Consciousness and quantum mechanics are two fields in which we don’t have all the answers.

      I’m quite familiar with the proposals that go down this line of thought – having read Tom Campbell’s “My Big TOE” (theory of everything) a couple times, and it goes down this same path of using things we don’t understand to propose as possible explanations for existence. Deepak Chopra went down this path for a while until he was embarrassed by real physicists who demonstrated his lack of understanding about quantum mechanics.

      I am open mindedly skeptical, but very interested in any objective evidence that may arise in the future. I want to see peer reviewed papers published in well known scientific journals like “Nature” before jumping on any such bandwagons.

      • Patrick Gannon

        I just did a little more research on this guy, and he like Chopra seems to think that things that apply at the micro level in QM also apply at the macro level, and there’s simply no evidence for that and is not part of the theory. It seems to me to be another twisting of facts, and selective use of little understood concepts to make money selling to gullible people. Wish-fulfilling fantasies are substituted for real knowledge and information, according to scientists who have reviewed this stuff. And this whole “Ramtha” thing – that’s just too much woo for me!

        • francisco

          Thanks for sharing your point of view.

      • francisco

        Thanks for responding. I personally like Dispenza’s discussions and just wanted to share the info in case you hadn’t heard of him. Have a nice day!

  • Awareness

    Happy New Day 🙂

    “Heavenletter #5708 Happy New Day Celebration, July 11, 2016

    God said:
    Oh, yes, the New Year is celebrated. Let Us celebrate every day of the New Year this time around in the Year numbered 2016 in books and on cards. There is no time except as time is perceived and touted, yet the world celebrates time as if it were as real as real can be.

    I suggest a new holiday called Happy New Day Celebration. Filled with love, let Us celebrate this Happy New Day. The bells are ringing. Hear the clarion bells welcoming the New Day. Let Us celebrate every roll-out of Life in the World.” – heavenletters(dot)org 🙂

    Bless ALL 🙂

    • I like it!

      • Ronald Cogan

        I like it also. Ron.

  • Well I’ve certainly decided to work & play at my own spiritual transformation. I am being the experience I desire to what ever degree I’m able. I love to talk to others about it when the opportUnity comes. I’m sure most people reading this blog are also on their own individual journey to spiritual transformation.

    I’ve programmed myself to consciously work & play in a more peaceful joyous state. This is not a stagnant place but an ever evolving one. One that accelerates without the need for negative drama & experience. That stuff has not completely disappeared from my experience, but has been reduced to a large degree.

    I do think that part of our own spiritual transformation is accelerated & greatly helped by groups who come together to create a particular outcome like inner & world peace.

    I tend to feel that the world is actually less violent & more peaceful than in the past. It doesn’t appear that way simply because we are influenced, seduced, manipulated & hypnotized by what the media & entertainment field brings.

    That is not to minimize the upheaval & violence that is reported, but to realize that it is what currently seems to sell. But peace is not a selling point for the media, not yet.

    Some say the upheaval is the ending of the old world consciousness & it’s battle to stay alive, even as it’s dying into a new world consciousness.

    As we awake & transform ourselves, hopefully that positive joyous influence helps others who are less awake to consider that advantage of spiritual transformation.

    • mewabe

      I agree with your perspective on peace as it relates to humans versus other humans. Humans are not quite as violent toward each other as they were centuries ago.

      But there is no peace (not yet) in the way modern civilization relates to the natural world, while it attempts to conquer and dominate nature in order to exploit it ever faster and more brutally and destructively, and in the way it relates to animals, millions being essentially tortured and then slaughtered daily to feed humanity’s unnecessarily carnivorous appetite.

      There is no peace where there is neither unity nor harmony, and there is no harmony yet in the way our global civilization interacts with nature. This is where mainstream religions fail completely, as most are completely unconcerned with the fate of the earth, while some actually welcome mayhem and destruction, believing it will speed up the second coming or, in the case of Moslem, the victory and rule of Islam over the entire world.

      Our relationship to nature reveals our beliefs and attitudes towards life. It seems that the majority of humanity hasn’t yet developed a basic respect for life, and considers it perfectly appropriate to destroy the natural world to turn it as fast as possible into energy, cash, trash and toxic waste, except where it may threaten the survival of human civilization, such as it is.

      Where is the love for the earth? in a loving and respectful relationship with the earth, with the natural world, is the seed of a greater peace, of a respect towards all life. This is what Native Americans mean when they talk about peace…it means a sense of unity, kinship and harmony with all life, not just with other humans.

  • Stephen mills

    I agree separating the divine from us is causing and has caused most of the problems on Earth .For at least 5 Millenia . Apart from many older Indiginous cultures who knew of cooperation and not domination .

    Spiritual disconnection is all around ,we have neglected our environment and view the natural world as the enemy to be subdued .Our actions against nature and ourselves are bringing us face to face with us once again .

    Wise teachers inform us again of looking into the eyes of God .

    “Then look into the eyes of any other living creature ” There in the eyes of a cow a cat or a fish in the eyes of a friend or enemy ,you are looking into the eyes of God ”

    Seeing everything as sacred on the Earth that diversity in nature strengthens living systems that perpetuate survival of all . When we bless something like a blade of grass or a tree then all grass and trees will bless us .Blessing is another form of gratitude to thank respect ,revere and love .

    Simple no ! but perfect …. Transformation will begin when we understand this Older Cultural world view and how things really work .All creation is sacred and part of us and us part of it ,this has the real value .

  • Ken

    Interesting point of view…I heard a line in the newest Star Trek movie “Beyond” that caught my attention…”But if the universe is truly endless, then are we not striving for something forever out of reach.”
    During the movie it made me think of something from CwG Book One where God said that God is infinite(endless) and I thought “are we not then striving for something forever out of reach, in God.”
    But in thinking over the past few hours I came to realize we are not striving for something out of reach because God, an intangible, is within us, always within our reach. While the universe may be infinite, it is tangible, but outside of us… interesting juxtaposition…

    I love when lessons learned from CwG come to mind in everyday experiences…

  • mewabe

    Another thought about the world: violence seems to be increasing because it is more reported today than it ever was. But looking beyond it, we can see the following, specifically about terrorism:

    Terrorists are unintentionally forcing the world to examine the nature of war and violence. War is deemed acceptable when it is limited to a “battlefield”, a time frame, a method, when it is waged by people in different costumes (uniforms), and more or less controlled by some basic “laws” of warfare. Throw all those out the window and what is left is the real nature of war: unspeakable and absurd barbarism. We will be forced to face that, sooner or later, if we ever decide to use our intelligence, our souls and our hearts.

    Terrorists are also, and unintentionally as well, forcing us to examine the nature of certain beliefs, by taking them to the extreme, and applying them literally. We think of ISIL as being psychopaths, and they are without a doubt, but they are actually more logical and consistent than most believers. They do not pick and choose what to follow from their holy book while pretending that the word of God is totally infallible, which is a contradiction. They read their book and proclaim: “God (or Allah or Mohamed who spoke for Allah) said this, I must therefore obey.” By doing this they will, again unintentionally, force the world to question all religious beliefs, if we choose to use our intelligence.

    Every challenge and difficulty is an opportunity to become aware (self knowledge) and for change (inner growth), when we see through the difficulty and do not become blinded by the apparent drama. The new age version of avoiding “negativity” like the plague while calling on “love and light” to fix everything is however a sure way of stunting growth, which is why this form of effete spirituality has reached a plateau and is becoming irrelevant in the face of the world’s current chaos.

    • I tend to think that the war on terrorism is exaggerated in the media as a diversion to bigger problems of resource declines & environmental damage. We have some serious overwhelming problems. They are created unconsciously to put us in a position to solve them in a way that actualizes our potential & brings us to a new era of living.

      There is also a lot of peace & spiritual growth that is being suppressed in favor of negative drama. This too, we will out grow.

      • mewabe

        The “war on terrorism” is no more real than the “war on drugs”. Terrorism and ISIL are however real, and Wahhabism, the extreme fringe of Islam from which ISIL grew, and which has been exported from the Saudi Arabian dictatorship for many decades with the blessing of the US in a bid to keep Arab nationalism and socialist/communist influences in the Arab world under control (especially during the cold war), is very real and dangerous as well.
        There are many other ways to keep people’s minds off the main problems facing us, which I agree are resources declines and environmental damage…such as endless and bitterly dividing debates about abortion, immigration, gay marriage and guns.

    • Patrick Gannon

      Mewabe, I love that last paragraph! “…it has no valid answers for humanity.” Certainly none it can prove with objective evidence. However, why isn’t Neale “new age”? Of course he is. If you google ‘most popular new age authors’ you’ll find him all over it. He’s number (10) to the Dalai Lama (1) in one list. He uses their methods, he puts his own spin on the new age story. He refers to pseudoscience to support his beliefs, and he makes money with seminars, programs, CDs, etc. just like all the others. It’s a business, but you might be right that it is plateauing.

      The new age pseudoscience articles continue to show up on the internet – last week, one reprinted from 2014 and presented as though it was new evidence proclaimed boldly in the title and article that evidence had been found to prove consciousness survives death. Nonsense. If you work hard enough, you can almost always follow the tracks back to the original research and in this case, discover that perhaps the brain lives a little longer than we thought when we proclaimed it dead – that’s it. No followup, and you really had to dig to find links to the original source. These pseudoscience mags often point to each other as references, hiding the original source. In this case the study found no useful evidence that consciousness survives death – it wasn’t really looking for that. The title and article were essentially a lie, or as close to misleading as you can get and not call it a lie. The credibility of that publication, and the many like them are damaged every time they do this. Each time they do this, they lose smart people who have learned to check for the truth. As time goes by these ridiculous claims get called out by more people like me who check the facts. The anti-vax and anti-GMO movements are similarly facing the continued onslaught of verifiable, objective, empirical evidence, that refutes the basic claims of the movement. In the end, truth usually wins. The New Age movement is associated with such discredited movements, and fake articles about consciousness will discredit the whole movement further, just as some of the key leaders in the movement have misused quantum mechanics as pseudoscience to support nebulous claims, and ending up on the wrong end of the facts. Better to say “I don’t know,” than to lie and mislead, which is what the movement does – and no matter how much we love him, and no matter how good some of his advice, and some of his ideas for thinking about ourselves, Neale is very much a part of that (declining) business model.

      While writing this I started wondering if the New Age movement was growing. I saw a number of articles speaking of fast growth in the late 90s, and then found a Pew Research study that was very detailed and covered, for most categories, from 2007 to 2014. The information was fascinating. Yeah, I think the movement has plateaued and is even starting to drop off. Like almost all the other religions, New Age is losing the next generation.

      A couple of the categories caught me by surprise, but in general I saw what I expected – the movement seems to have peaked, perhaps several years back. The only thing I saw that really surprised me was that the number of people who meditate had fallen off as well, whereas given that this process does produce objective benefits, and all the talk about real benefits of meditation, I would not have expected to see if falling off. I will credit my time with the New Age movement with introducing me to mindfulness, which is quite useful. Hmm, perhaps meditation has just fallen off among New Agers but not among the general population. This study just looks at that group.

      Google: pewforum religious-landscape-study religious-family new-age

      • mewabe

        I agree that those who attempt to mix science and spirituality often end up with egg on their face. Science relies on objectivity. Spirituality is a totally subjective experience, like art, poetry, love, and like dreams and imagination.

        Spirituality is an art, not a science. It is the art of the intangible, of relating to the unknown through highly personal and unique means. This individual, subjective, flowing characteristic is what differenciates it from religion, theology, dogma, from anything written in stone in perpetuity.

        Let’s call it dreaming, if you prefer. Should we contest the validity of a person’s unique dreams, even if they appears strange or foolish to the detached, so-called objective observer?

        Spirituality seems to trigger objections when it comes close to religion by affirming “truths” in a manner that is authoritative.

        For this reason spirituality might be better and more appropriately expressed through art and poetry, music and dance, even through ceremony if certain people relate to this approach, than through theology, and might be better shared as one shares a dream or a poem, than taught as one teaches algebra.

  • Jenny

    I feel that we need to stop focusing on how to change the world, or “make a difference” on a grand scale, and start focusing on ourselves! We are all wounded and need to heal. I have been going through the process of awakening and the main thing I have learned is we all need to HEAL! Turn inward and look at your “stuff”. Heal up and then we can create a ripple effect to the rest of the world. That should be the first step. We are all very powerful spiritual beings and we need to take our power back and own that… Our old worn out belief systems have got to go, and the only way that will happen is to tell yourself the truth, about YOURSELF, and heal. I also believe that most of the people in this world have a closed heart because of their wounds. We are the walking wounded! We all need to turn inward… Ask what needs to be healed and go from there. Amazing things will happen! Stay positive! Feel joy! I know my message is very simple and not as detailed and complex, but as deep into this situation as we are, I FEEL a very strong need to simplify. Love to all…

    • mewabe

      I think your message is extremely good and essential. Indeed we are all wounded and all need to heal. Many strange and destructive beliefs have their very source in our wounds, in our emotional history, in a mind that can no longer grasp reality as it is because it see things through the distortion of trauma or of chronic emotional or psychological suffering.

      Most individuals are not actually molded or changed by beliefs, unless programmed from early childhood…they are attracted to certain belief systems because these fit their psychological make up. Beliefs that teach fear or guilt resonate with people who feel fearful or guilty.

      Opening our hearts takes the most courage of all human endeavors. Many people would rather die, and do so, than open their heart and feel their wounds, vulnerability, and needs. Additionally, it is a very humbling experience, one which the ego and its many defenses do not welcome. It also takes total honesty with oneself. All these quality must be relied upon for healing, as well as the trust that the heart has the answer, and can heal all wounds, all pain, all suffering.

      We cannot force others to heal, we cannot fix anything from the outside…all transformation must come from within. This is the way life works, from the single cell to the seed and the womb. All life grows from within and outwards, not the other way around.

      Those who do not heal themselves, who do not know themselves, are the most dangerous among us, because they project their inner confusion, turmoil or suffering on others and on the world, and often attempt to “fix” them in accordance with their own inner distortions and confusions, creating more chaos in the process. This is the definition of unconscious living.

      To become fully conscious is not just a mental process…it must involve feeling at the deepest levels…there is no knowledge without heart knowledge.

      • Jenny

        Mewabe, I could not agree more… When I first began my journey I felt like a may die because the first step in healing is taking a good, hard look at yourself, which is not an easy thing to do. You are absolutely right that we can not force people to heal. They must choose it for themselves and do the hard work involved in such an endeavor. And you are right, that some people would rather die than open their hearts. You can not heal with a closed heart. Or, they want someone outside of themselves to heal them. That has been my experience.

        I realized early on in my awakening that I am a healer. At first I wanted to heal everyone! For some reason in particular, men. I have had several men “sense” this about me, and try to “steal” my energy because they are not capable of creating their own. Or they just do not recognize their own power to do so. I have finally realized that I can not heal them. I can only heal myself, and assist others in their healing if they ask. But I have had to say no to men in particular that expect me to do it for them. It is not possible. I can try to help, but we all have to do our own “work” on ourselves.

        I am still working on myself and am continuing to open my own heart. In my opinion, it is important to “turn inward”! That was my first intuitive message 1 1/2 years ago. Turn inward! Look within yourself to find all of the answers you are looking for. Turning inward, spending time alone to evaluate yourself is a necessity to healing. People are so busy, being busy, to avoid the present moment. And they are afraid of being with themselves. I just wish that people could find the courage to “turn inward”. It is not an easy thing to do… Things get dark for awhile. I feel that I am starting to come out of my cocoon and I am very excited about that. I want to help as many people as I can to do the same thing. Let us not forget that by raising our own vibration, we will raise other’s as well! Just with your presence. People can feel that you are being your authentic self. I am not totally there, but feel that I am close. It is my passion and purpose to help others to find themselves. Love to all…

  • hanno

    Ich finde, es wäre an der Zeit, das Unterbewustsein der Menschen in GmG Richtung zu beeinflussen, die nicht in der Lage sind bewusst an sich zu arbeiten.
    Hunderte Millionen Menschen würden mit Hilfe von Games beeinflusst, in denen versteckte spirituelle Warheiten verborgen wären.
    Video Games beinhalten jetzt schon spirituelle Wahrheiten.
    Ich kann das Spiel jederzeit beenden und am letzt gespeicherten Punkt wieder laden. Ist es mit dem Leben anders?
    Ich kann in Games physikalische Gesetze beeinflussen und umgehen. Das kann ich mit hilfe von spirit und visueller Vorstellung im Leben auch.
    Möglichkeiten, die in GmG klar gesagt werden.
    Neal, gib gas.

  • Glenda Brown

    I have been observing for a long time that we are “going to hell in a hand basket”(as Grandma use to say). I believe we all have a role to play. I also believe we are going to need people to help us find the way. For me that has been Neale.

  • Robert

    In the Dutch language we have a beautiful word for remember ” her..inner “; seek for you’re inner self. In “a course in wonders” Jesus said: Be gentle for yourself. Forgiv yourself, so you can forgiv others.

  • Mariana Rack Piporé

    I’m not sure about the “this is going to have to be an individual effort” part.
    I live in a country (Argentina) where “collective effort” and social movements have really important impact on individual transformations (at least for an large portion of individuals). Our individual spiritual work it’s important, but we need to develop a strong desire to communicate our thoughts with others, to make a difference.

  • What’s uP Neale, only one blog the entire summer. Now it’s labor day………..

    • Patrick Gannon

      He’s still putting out his Sunday newsletters, but they are often repeats of earlier columns. Yesterday he posted the one about how the Pope and Billy Graham rejected the biblical Hell – which is not at all true. I researched that the last couple times he posted it. Hell is absolutely in the Church catechism, and I could find no good evidence that Billy Graham rejected the biblical Hell.

      I participate in Catholic blogs and Hell is very much alive and well in the Catholic Church – and as a result, the exodus of the young continues. Now we can look up the origins of the pagan word “Hell” and find the four words the Church translated to that word – Sheol, Gehenna, Hades and Tartarus. None of them are Hell as we think of it. Hell is the product of Dante’s “Inferno,” Milton’s “Paradise Lost” and all the medieval paintings of people in flames.

      But I digress. He’s not a young guy, you know – but he’s still doing appearances. There are only so many ways you can say the same thing again and again… Focusing on current events seems like a way to keep a discussion going…

      Hmm, perhaps this forum has ceased to serve as a recruiting tool and does not contribute to the “New Revelations” religion… It’s no secret that the mainstream religions are falling off at an accelerating rate in the US. The “Nones” are now the largest voting block. I don’t know whether these people are moving to New Age religions such as the “New Revelations,” but I don’t think there’s much of that going on. Perhaps some bounce in and out as I did, recognizing in time that a belief is still a belief, no matter how bad or good, and it just doesn’t make good sense to believe and pretend to know things we don’t know.

      Maybe I could take over the column…. LOL

      • HI Pat, I will be attending one of his retreats later this month.

    • Spiritual_Annie

      Hey, Marko,

      I think he’s out of the country, though I could be mistaken. He’s also going to have a new book coming out sometime next year, though I’m not sure how far along the process he’s gotten. I do know that he’s been available weekly for a call-in portion of a course I’ve been taking for six weeks, but he could be doing that from nearly anywhere.

      Glad you’re getting to go to a retreat! My course is online, but hearing even his energy as he records lessons is different from reading the written words. Have fun!

      Love and Blessings Always,

      • Thanks Ann! Be well!