A voice in the wilderness
STEPS 2 & 3 IN HAVING YOUR OWN
CONVERSATION WITH GOD

As I said in the first entry in this series of articles, I have been asked many times how people can have a conversation with God of their own, and so I have looked at my own experience carefully, and I have come up with a sort of informal Seven Step Process to help people do this.

I have already explained that the first step is to admit to the possibility that such a thing can take place, that people can actually have conversations with God; to simply accept at last that these things are not only possible, but that they are occurring right now, and have always occurred, in the experience of humanity.

In order to hold this as a possibility, one would have to hold as a possibility the existence of a God at all. So I call Step One: Possibility.

Moving now to the second step…we are invited to include ourselves in the circle of those beings we consider worthy of having such experiences.

For instance, we already know that people have had conversations with God. Moses said he did, and many believe him, Mohammed said did, and many believe him, the Buddha said he did, and many believe him, Joseph Smith said he did, and many believe him. These beings and others had some kind of personal revelation that made them feel touched by the hand of God.

Jesus said he talked to God and went so far as to say that he and his Father were One. Many believe him. Krishna, likewise, was said to be God made Man. This is the ultimate in “talking to God.” This is when the “talker” and the “talkee” become One. This is when the one conversing and the one being conversed with are One And The Same.

So we already acknowledge that some people have had these kinds of experiences. Then why couldn’t we?

Well, because often we think that those others who have been mentioned are somehow better then we are. They’re more holy or they’re more wise or they’re more pure or they’re something that we are not. Yet the fact is that they are nothing we are not. So the second step of the process leading to our own conversation with God is to acknowledge our own worthiness—that I am just as worthy to be spoken to by God as anyone else.

So I call Step Two: Worthiness.

The third step in the process is to move to a place of willingness to receive such communications—and that must manifest itself in behaviors that demonstrate willingness.

For instance, I set aside a few minutes each day for quiet contemplation. I don’t keep running my life as if I don’t have time to do that. I demonstrate a willingness to receive such communications from God by preserving and arranging for sufficient time for that to occur, and by creating environmental conditions that allow it to occur.

In my own case, I arise in the morning and I try very hard to spend some quiet time thinking and writing before I do anything else. Some mornings I get up early as 4:30 and some mornings it might be closer to 5:30 or 6:30, but it’s almost always before or as the sun comes up. And I set aside that time for myself, to be quiet. Maybe I do some writing, perhaps I do some reading, or I might do some in-place meditating.

(One doesn’t have to go to a special room or a particular location and sit down and light a candle or put on some special music to meditate. That’s a nice thing to do, but that’s not required. One can meditate anywhere. Right where you are when you decide to meditate, you can do that. Lying in bed just after you awaken. Standing in the kitchen while the coffee is brewing. Sitting in your favorite armchair.

And meditation does not have to take a certain amount of time or look a certain way. It can take just a quick few moments, and look like gentle observation, or thinking—but thinking from the level of Soul, not the level of Mind. This is really not thinking at all, but quiet contemplation…just being “still” in your mind.

It is written: “Be still, and know that I am God.”

Whatever it looks like to you, work ten minutes of this into your daily routine and you’ll be surprised at how easy it is to “find time to meditate.”

With me, it’s not the same every day. But I do give myself time every morning to be alone with my soul, and most people do not do that. If I miss that time in the morning…if life just will not allow that on a certain day, then I make sure that I find some time during that day to just STOP—just stop for a moment—and give myself even just ten seconds of peace.

This is what I call “Stopping Meditation.”

It’s when you just stop everything you are doing, just for 10-Blessed-Seconds, and do nothing. Say nothing, Think nothing. Just BE.

This “stopping” can occur, you can make this happen, at any time. While walking down the street. While doing the dishes. While standing in the shower.

What I described just now is unusual, I’m sad to say. Most people live their whole lives, and maybe they give their Mind a rest once or twice a month. They get inspired, read a book—“I’ll try it”—but after three days the rest period is over and they get back to “regular life.”

Yet if this becomes a regular part of “regular life,” if you set aside a time to commune with your soul every day, after a very few days you’ll find that you’re having the “conversations with God” that you’ve asked about. For God talks in the spaces between our thoughts, not during our thoughts.

Or better yet, I should say that God talks all the time, but we can hear God better in the spaces between our thoughts. And between our actions, Yes?

So I call Step Three: Willingness.

Just be willing to hear God—and demonstrate that by giving yourself some holy moments each day to just listen.

Comments

662 responses to “A voice in the wilderness
STEPS 2 & 3 IN HAVING YOUR OWN
CONVERSATION WITH GOD”

  1. Jethro Avatar
    Jethro

    Worthiness…. Not only are we worthy of such a conversation, it’s impossible to stop these conversations. We need not feel worthy to have the conversation, we need to feel worthy to realize it’s happening. If you don’t believe your having a conversation with God, you have given God a different name to suit your own beliefs. If you have given the voice another name, your having a conversation with…..

    Willingness… The conversation never stops. It’s always there, you must be willing to stop and listen and this may at times require you meditate, or tune out the world, or just stop and listen for a second. To form a decision of any kind is usually a casual conversation with God. I have heard it said that people forgot to talk to God about something, not true, they just didn’t “listen” to God, they listened to personal desire.

    Creating confusion about this seems to be the goal, maybe to keep people in charge and important. Maybe to defend something. It doesn’t really matter what title we give it, the conversation is the conversation and we can call it whatever we wish, but it will never go away. Call it what you wish but the only important thing is why your having the conversation to begin with. Your giving yourself the ability to give the greatest grandest expression of who you really are.

    “Simply accept at last that “a conversation with God” is not only possible, but that “conversations with God” are occurring right now, and have always occurred, in the experience of humanity.”

  2. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
    Spiritual_Annie

    Step 1 was, for me, easy.

    It looked to me like Step 2 was going to be fairly easy, too… Until I started to reply. And I kept tripping over one word: worthy.

    I’ve lived my life in such a way that it felt like there was a constant feedback loop of how unworthy I am. And I think a lot of us are. I’m not talking about being unworthy of having a conversation with God. That wasn’t even on the list. I’m talking about being unworthy of being noticed. Of being loved. Of being taught. Of making an A instead of a B. Of going to college. Of getting a job. Of getting a pay raise or a promotion. Of moving to a better neighborhood. Of getting a nicer vehicle. Of… Well, of living life to its fullest.

    I’ll leave out the ways in which my own particular family made me feel unworthy. I’ll even leave out the religious attitudes about being unworthy. What I think is a common struggle for all of us is all the way in which our societies tell us we’re unworthy. Even our friends and closest, most intimate relationships can give us a message that we’re unworthy.

    It happens all the time, even though it’s not always said out loud. A friend breaks a trust, giving us the message that we’re not worth their loyalty. A loving partner relationship ends badly (do they ever really end well?), and we get the message that we’re unworthy of love. I worked in a field that had been dominated by men, and I was told to go back to “my kitchen” quite regularly (and more rudely than that).

    Some of us get it a bit more than others. Women are generally seen as less worthy than men, whites are generally seen as more worthy than nonwhites (at least here in the USA), heterosexuals are generally seen as more worthy than anyone in the LGBTQ communities, someone with a job is seen as more worthy as someone unemployed or disabled (regardless of the circumstances)… It’s a pretty long list. It’s amazing to me that, by the time any of us reach the age of 25 we feel we’re worthy of ANYthing, much less a conversation with God.

    Fortunately, I’ve had conversations with God all my life, so my feeling of unworthiness didn’t really bleed over into that area of my life. But when I started to write that as my reply, it just didn’t sit well with me because of all of the other ways I’ve accepted someone else’s definition of whether or not I’m worthy. I don’t do that anymore. Well, I do when I’m depressed, but that just doesn’t happen nearly as much as it used to.

    So, that’s my long answer to Step 2 about being worthy to have a conversation with God.

    Step 3, Willingness, is much easier for me. Habits aren’t as hard to develop as we make them out to be, if we believe the outcome is to our benefit. I remember the Senior Pastor at a church I used to attend saying it takes six weeks for something to feel “normal” (which is why he changed the order of service every month–we were a mixed bag, so he didn’t want the service to become “too Catholic” or “too Evangelical” or “too” whatever). If I know it’s to my benefit, I can generally hang onto a new behavior for six weeks until it feels more normal to me.

    For those who are willing, but who have a difficult time with new habits, there are all kinds of helpful apps out there. Some include guided meditations, others are gentle alarms reminding that it’s time to take a break.

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    1. Jethro Avatar
      Jethro

      There is only one person in the universe who can deem us unworthy. it’s our “selfs”. Unworthy is an illusion. Don’t pay attention to it. Nobody is unworthy!

      Don’t trip this up by calling yourself Nobody. That’s incorrect too.

      1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
        Spiritual_Annie

        Awww… You caught it before I could (sarcastically) even reply. As soon as I read, “Nobody is unworthy!” my warped sense of humor already went there in my head.

        Guess that was my itty bitty conversation with God this morning. Me talking to myself expressing as God, and God expressing as Jethro replying, before I could even type a sentence.

        Man, you’re good! (That’s for the both of y’all.)

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        1. Jethro Avatar
          Jethro

          Consider yourself scolded… “WE” ARE GOOD!! Include yourself in that and whoever else should post here, or take a breath… or receive nourishment from the sun and soil… or, or, or exist. We’re all great actually!

          I got so excited I peed a little…

        2. Kristen Avatar
          Kristen

          Haha.
          Completely off topic for a change.
          Scary day here, the start of learning to hold my breath for two months. My 24yr old daughter has just got on a plane to travel across the world with a friend, a week in London then a long Contiki tour through Europe…just as crazies strike London!
          Aaaaaggggghhhhh!!!!
          Xx

          1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            Kirsten,

            Everything I’ve thought of saying sounds trite and I just can’t joke about it, so I’ll just say you and they are being immersed in love sent by me and I’m sure many others, and I’m honored you shared your fear here.

            Breathe!

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          2. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Thanks Annie.
            Its so sad that the world is too scary to travel now. Kiwis (New Zealanders) and Israelis are huge on doing an OE, travelling the world before they settle down, almost like a ritual.
            Fingers and toes crossed, and Ill listen to the song Breathe!
            Take care,
            Xx

          3. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            hey kiwi,

            don’t worry. She’ll be fine. Of course, moms never stop worrying but trust in God and all is well.

            Love,
            M

          4. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Thanks Michelle. Faith and trust wont work with this one, I dont know Gods plans for her, but do know if anyone so much as touches her shoulder, WW3 will start!
            The Moms army of the world….the toughest of all!
            Take care,
            K
            Xx

          5. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Amen on that one. I am one big Army when it comes to my kid 😉 Moms unite. WWIIIIIIIIIIII and then some 🙂

            You, too 🙂
            M

          6. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Amen, Halleujah and even a few Hail Marys to that.
            Xx

          7. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Hallelujah is a glory kind of thing 🙂 and Hail Mary to Mother Mary everywhere there is a Mother Mary and she is everywhere <3

  3. babybleustardust Avatar
    babybleustardust

    God speaks to everyone, but not everyone knows this fundamental part of our nature. It is our nature. It is part of who we are. We came this way. We just didn’t know it. Looking back, God spoke to me long before I knew we could speak in dialogue as in letters moving my hand across a page. There were signs. As a little girl, I saw an orange ball of light, and I would watch it. It happened when I would close my eyes. It had a circle of orange umber glow in the middle. Now, I think it is probably how God and I communed, but then there were other signs too magical but nonetheless real to me. Santa Claus exists in lightstreams of quarks moving for a little girl looking out a window pane. Did I believe? Yes, I did. It is real, Virginia. God is real and alive and at every breakfast table created as love, no matter what you believe. God is movement as us. Do we create as love? Do we create as one? Do we create in unison a divine mix focusing on true marriages of true minds of oneness? We can speak as many or one. As we move through this time and this space, we create movement through digit, bit, mind space, Mind space and beyond. God is Unseen and Seen, so as we lift others to a greater awareness of who they really are God is smiling. Happy Afternoon to All <3

  4. Marko Avatar

    “Listening to God means listening to ourselves.” NDW “What God Said” book.

    Further on page 326 “Call everything a conversation with God, and see what God is saying to you.”

    “Choose to have a specific conversation with God, and then watch for it. Observe closely what and where life is sending you.”

    I invite my soul to talk to me & guide me in any number of issues. I’ve yet to get any straight forward answers, but I’m in the practice of asking & listening without requiring instant feed back, but allow any forms that come to me to be part of all of the answer. I do prefer to have a part of my inner self or my soul commune with me in dialogue form and that may or may not happen. In the mean time it’s the practice and invitation that I’m focusing on.

    Interesting while asking my ancestors for guidance on my coloring book promotion in recent weeks, I got an answer unexpectedly from a psychic tarot reader friend. There was no prompting, she just said “Oh by the way your mother is hanging around” & so I asked and got a message that way.

    I have the meditation down, my life is a form of meditation, I have the positive self talk down at least 85 % or more. I take time just to “be” and I practice states of being that I choose & call forth.

    So it’s a matter of not just listening, but paying attention.

    1. babybleustardust Avatar
      babybleustardust

      Hi Marko,

      That is amazing. I think we open in increments, preferably gradually, because it can be frightening if it is so fast that we can’t comprehend parapsychology or paranormal or whatever it is called but psychic phenomena is how I began to open to a dialogue format. That is for sure. My family had always been psychic per se on my grandma’s side. It was called the “third eye” and the “thirty third” generation by everybody. My grandma, who meditated before it was cool, would go in a state, half dream, half awake, and once she screamed because her son was about to hit a tree as he was driving in a nearby town. It was late in the middle of the night, and he a teenager, and he was asleep at the wheel in real time and heard her voice, “Miiiiiiike, wake up!!” He swerved just in time. That is weird, but there are more stories. She once told my grandpa not to ride a plane home. It was small plane with just two driving and she told my grandpa “do not get on that plane.” My grandpa listened, but the other went on and the plane crashed. All on board died. So, when I began to open, I was at a yard sale and the lady walked up to me and began “reading me.” At the time, I was looking at antique jewelry and was a little not wanting to be read, but the lady said, “Spirit comes around you as a bird.” I freaked a little but she continued reading me and telling me about loved ones and at any rate, that night in the hotel, I had strange dreams and I think as we open, we become energized to a certain frequency and some drive at it, the love energy. I couldn’t sleep because of the howling like figures I was dreaming, so I stayed up. Why am I telling you? I think raising our frequency to a level where only love reaches is the way. The dream stopped but the wierdness began all in that weekend of the yardsale. Wow I was interested in paranormal and began reading my grandma’s encyclopedia brittanica. Oh my god. What a great set. Anyway, it’s late and here I am drinking coffee reading about ectoplasm and anything I could, psychic or whathave you. Suddenly, I had pen in hand as I was reading to take notes. Suddenly, my hand moved, the one with the pen in it and wrote the date coming up in that week. I was like “I did not write that. I wasn’t thinking of that. What the hell?” The date proved prolific in that I had a wreck that day on the day I was scheduled to drive a thousand miles towards home. The wreck is where it got even wierder. Oh my god. A car. It wasn’t a car. It was a big tank jeep/something from another land kind of car with no windows. It was dark. At any rate, the light turned green. I was exhausted. New baby and all and suddenly his tank/car/plane stopped with the light green. I was already moving in my car and banged into him. I was petrified but pulled over. He got out. The car was totalled. My son was in the backseat with no thing wrong. He slept through it. It was a gentle car crash but managed to total the front end. The man got out and wow what a gorgeous hunk. He looked like the lead flutist of Wuaukiquna and that is a true statement. I was like wow 🙂 married but not dead. 🙂 He said, gently as Godhimself and he said, “Is the baby okay?” I said yes. Of course, he was in my hands and he smiled and I smiled and suddenly a sparrow flew from the sky and landed on his shoulder. Spirit talking? yea. It was like the lady at the recent yardsale predicted so I am standing there with mouth wide open and he is looking at me like I’ll never forget it. It was a faraway look. The policeman came and I said, “Look at that bird on his shoulder.” The policeman said, “Damn. That’s like out of the movie Birds.” After the report was done, he looked at me, got in his car and the bird was on his shoulder and I am just standing with my mouth still open and he looked so faraway yet there, smiling back at me as he drove off. Wow okay. It was wierd and got even wierder with the birds. Once back at my grandma’s, a bird got into my bedroom from outside. It just kept happening. At my sister’s, I was debating on moving and went outside and hundreds of birds started swirling around me, literally swirling. It was a sign. We get signs before the big one when we are wow Anyhoo, I can’t believe I am typin this but your post reminded me of my own experience. So, tell me how you created the coloring book. I want to do it too. I looked on amazon. Is it listed there?

      Love,
      M

      1. Marko Avatar

        WoW! what a story! Thanks for the share. I can’t promote myself on this site, as it’s Neale’s and he rightly doesn’t like people piggy backing on his own sites.

        But if you click on my love/infinity profile you can get more info.

        Magically, -M

        1. babybleustardust Avatar
          babybleustardust

          Thank you! I’ll go there now 😉 I appreciate your share, too :))) Magically and wonderfully magical,

          M

          1. Marko Avatar

            I don’t think it’s appropriate for me to go into any of the site or book here, but you can go there & contact me where we can privately talk.

          2. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            oh I forgot. I’ll do that. Love to you 🙂

        2. babybleustardust Avatar
          babybleustardust

          Very cool design. I have not seen any coloring book like it. None have that thomas bentonn /salvidore dali look 😉 Marko color my world 🙂 your website is pretty cool. I love the picture. Is that a rust colored heart rock in the middle? It looks like one. I collect them.

          Love you,
          M

  5. Jean Avatar
    Jean

    ‘Stopping Meditation’ is very hard in our modern society. In our information society, we get distracted very easily and feel bored if our mind doesn’t have a constant flow of new information. We can see it very clearly with the addiction to smartphones. More and more people can’t for a few minutes detach themselves from their smartphones. We must feel connected to the entire world all the time, but we are less and less connected to our environment and to the present moment.
    Meditation is of course very fashionable as the mainstream media talk often about its good sides, but very few people practice on a regular basis. As we live in consumer society and there are a lot of different practices available, people try all the time new practices and never follow seriously one path.

    1. Jethro Avatar
      Jethro

      I meditated while leaning on an outdoor deep fryer stored in my garage the other day. If people have a hard time meditating, they’re trying too hard and expecting too much. If I were to get into the lotus position, an ambulance would eventually be called and I would be labeled a masochist.

      1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
        Spiritual_Annie

        A true master. It’s meditating wherever we find ourselves, that’s the trick. For reasons shared prior, most of my meditation is now done laying down. But I have also meditated for moments when Biscuit’s engaged in finding the right spot to do his business (there’s a lot of pacing involved, so I lean on a tree), or stuck in line at the grocery, or staring at a blade of grass at the bus stop. No altar, incense or candle necessary. A practice of setting aside what’s become for me a Holy way to start the day is great, but meditating wherever is cool, too.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        1. Jethro Avatar
          Jethro

          Annie, have I ever said your a sweetheart? You boost me up with every post! Never forget that every word that builds me up is applicable to yourself. No person is less or more. The more awesome I become, the more awesome we all become… isn’t that awesome!? Thank you. I was just thinking about the last time I laid down without sleeping… can’t remember. That could be a sad story.

          1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            A sadder one might be trying to remember the last time one laid down and did more than get an hour or two… all night long. Sleep disorders suck.

            At the moment, I needed that truth, so thank you, wise one.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          2. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            I go through a lot of melatonin, staying asleep is not a problem, getting there can take.. an act of god. Just the way I’m wired I guess. When I was a problem drinker I lost my license and worked in a factory, every other shift was nights. My sleeping problems were less after that but still there.

          3. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I think mine comes from hypervigilence for my own safety, starting as just a babe until I got into therapy in my early 30’s. Didn’t find out about it until I was tested for sleep apnea in my 40’s. They had me back for a second sleep study because of some “irregularities,” this time hooked up to an EEG.

            I have what’s called Alpha Wave Intrusion, which just basically means whenever I hit that wonderful place of restorative sleep called REM, alpha waves (like when we’re awake and aware) pop in multiple times hourly. I wake so briefly that I most often don’t know it, but still spend my nights going up and down through the stages that it’s not all that restful. Then every couple of weeks or so, when I feel like I’m going to start walking into walls, I crash for 24-48 hours. All I do then is sleep, eat, hydrate, “hit the head,” and back to sleep.

            I don’t fall asleep well, either. My head just won’t be quiet. Yeah, melatonin, and diphenhydramine (the stuff that’s in Benadryl), and what meds I’m on weighted to make me drowsy at bedtime. No caffeine past noon, and no meals just before bed. And guided imagery, and relaxation techniques (at least my body rests). And a whole routine around bedtime. When all else fails, the movie “Pitch Perfect” almost always knocks me out. It’s not that I don’t like it, because I do. It’s that it was the only movie I had downloaded when we were homeless, so I turned it on every night so Christie and I wouldn’t have to hear the night’s noises and it gave our brains something to focus on.

            Sleep deprivation is no laughing matter. That’s why it’s common as a torture technique. But I do OK. I’m used to it. I used to be angry about it, but let that go. Why be tired and angry? Actually, I let most anger go. It was about others more than me, and when I came to a larger understanding about my life, I saw that clearly I was only harming myself with it’s energy. I can still go there to visit, but don’t stay long at all anymore.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          4. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Sounds like my wife, she gets her best sleep in the last hour always saying she was awake all night. I tried to get her on a c-pap but she wouldn’t do it. She defiantly has sleep apnea. I wonder sometimes if she will take another breath.

          5. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            That’s scary. I had a mild case, until I dropped weight. Stopped my snoring, too. And her apnea mixed with your fears probably isn’t helping with your own sleep. Blessings for her, as well.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          6. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Annie has all these mental health and brain issues, but we’re supposed to trust her subjective experiences? (Hey if Annie can talk about me while blocking me, I can play too). Being in “in between” sleep states is when thoughts can bypass System 2 thinking, the part that assigns reality checks, and these thoughts may get laid down and interpreted as being more real than reality. What Annie is doing here, from my perspective, is presenting information about why her subjective experiences are even more open to question, than other people who do not experience such abnormalities or mental health issues. I have no idea whether her “conditions” contributes to her subjective experiences, but her symptoms certainly seem like they could contribute. What happens during an NDE or OBE:

            “The brain, in conditions conducive to such phenomena occurring, is prey to chaos. Physiological and pharmacological mechanisms are completely disturbed, exacerbated or, conversely, diminished. Certain studies have put forward a physiological explanation for certain components of NDE, such as Out-of-Body Experiences, which could be explained by dysfunctions of the temporo-parietal lobe. In this context the study published in PLOS ONE suggests that these same mechanisms could also could also ‘create’ a perception – which would thus be processed by the individual as coming from the exterior – of reality. In a kind of way their brain is lying to them, like in a hallucination. These events being particularly surprising and especially important from an emotional and personal perspective, the conditions are ripe for the memory of this event being extremely detailed, precise and durable.” University of Liège. “Memories of near death experiences: More real than reality?.” ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 27 March 2013.

          7. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            My favourite movies. Pitch Perfect. But hey, I love Snakes On A Plane and the Final Destination moves…no accounting for taste!! Even Sharknado was hilarious.
            Xx

          8. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            You’re either well-rounded, or weird. I vote for weird, as I don’t want to be the only off-beat one. I’m into the Underworld series, myself. And Marvel movies, too. Thor is a hunk and a half! Although I’ve always had a thing for Anthony Hopkins, who plays Odin Olfather.

          9. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Weirds good…which is actually well rounded….allowing ones self to express and experience the 100 main human traits…all mixed together makes weird.
            Anthony Hopkins scares me. I like anyone on the hot radar..tan, toned, good hair and teeth…personalities go out the window, the hot factor overrides everything. I like thoroughbreds, male bodies and faces are like any other mammal, plant or lifeform, if it looks good and is a thorougbred as it was intended to be then it meets the grade to me visually. And like any other animals as well, if it doesnt look good then Im not touching it. Incredibly superficial with anything, my standards are way above what they should be!
            Certainly makes dating difficult, I punch way above my weight and know it.
            Thor..yip.
            Xx

          10. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I like that—I’m well-rounded weird! Although I also like eccentric.

            What, did you first see Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs? The first time I started watching that (at my sister’s insistence), I made it to the point where Hannibal Lecter suggested “tit-for-tat” when I found myself screaming, “NO! Don’t let him in your head! You’ll never get him out!” So my sister turned it off.

            I think he’s his most dashing in The Mask of Zorro, though my favorite Zorro movie is with George Hamilton in dual roles in Zorro, the Gay Blade. When Mama passed, I totally lost it at the funeral home the first night. So, the second night, my sister took me to the movies and that’s what we saw. Laughed our butts off. We both needed it.

            I’m sure you must think George Hamilton was a hunk. ?

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

  6. Bishop Hollywood Avatar
    Bishop Hollywood

    There’s nothing like waking up early in the morning and taking a few minutes to meditate. It totally relaxes you and help you deal with situations that may develop throughout​ the day, with a different way or point of view. We have to continually exercise not just our body, but our mind and spirit as well. Be blessed everyone

  7. Marko Avatar

    I’ve not had 2 way conversations with God like Neale has, but I do get inspirations, not always in answer to my inquires, but this came recently.

    “Horrible-ness cannot exist without unresolved pain that has not been confronted or healed.”

    1. babybleustardust Avatar
      babybleustardust

      Wow that’s a conversation alright 🙂 amen 🙂

    2. Marko Avatar

      Here’s a few more Markoisms just for fun.

      “How big of a barcode do you think you need to scan the Milky way?”

      “Big DEAL! You own a couple of planets—whoop-tee-doo! My cousin owns a few galaxies, and my uncle is putting in a bid on the entire Universe!”

      “Earth is a floating pebble on the cosmic beach of the Universe, a molecule inside the body of God.”

      1. Jethro Avatar
        Jethro

        Earth is a floating pebble on the cosmic beach…. That explains the flood! 🙂

        1. Marko Avatar

          Ha, ah yes, but the cosmic beach I’m referring too is the galaxy/universe itself. 🙂

          1. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Wonderful quote Marko. My reply was to create a smile… maybe even a little laughter. 😉

          2. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            It did. ?

          3. Marko Avatar

            Oh, I got that! 🙂

    3. Jethro Avatar
      Jethro

      What sound would you have to hear to believe you had a two way conversation with God?

      1. Marko Avatar

        Good question Jethro. I’m talking about something where I’m getting replies back that are not from my normal in my head self talk, but somewhere else deeper, that is distinct, from it, but not separate.

        1. Jethro Avatar
          Jethro

          The voice is always there. How you choose to hear it or define it is up to you… but it’s there every moment.

          1. Marko Avatar

            I think I hear part of it, some of the time, but not more of it more of the time. 🙂

        2. Stephen mills Avatar
          Stephen mills

          The soul voice is the Highest form of love you can imagine .

    4. Jethro Avatar
      Jethro

      “Listening to God means listening to ourselves” …..2 way conversation with God?

    5. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
      Spiritual_Annie

      I heard a good one loud and clear at Evolutionary Church on Saturday: “Love explodes our shame.” Marc Gafni was talking about how unworthy feelings can almost always be traced back to shame that gets covered up and fester’s with time. If, however, we recognize the underlying shame, we can literally love who we were then and know the message was wrong, exploding our shame with Love.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

  8. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
    Spiritual_Annie

    Sorry to have been MIA. Have had a few rough days. But I’ve been keeping up on notifications.

    Seems Sam has taken on Patrick in the previous column. I wish him luck, but I blocked Patrick for a reason: he denigrates people, not just their beliefs and experiences and ideas. Good luck, Sam, but please don’t let him put you in a bad space. His twisting of ideas and jumping of subjects and arguing the same thing over and over are about him, not you.

    Marko, you have some incredible insights (conversations with God, in my book). Thanks for sharing so much here.

    Jethro, as always, you put things so straight forward that the truth is easily discerned. I’m glad you’re still here.

    Michelle, I love your tangents and flights into things that give me new perspectives. Keep on, sistah!

    Kirsten, still sending love. Know that all will be well, and it will. (I know, it’s a Mama thing. But do your best to worry as little as possible.)

    Not leaving anyone out intentionally, so if I missed ya, please don’t take it to heart. Miss and​ love y’all!

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    1. Jethro Avatar
      Jethro

      I was Patrick a few years ago. He means no harm, just sharing himself. I could be wrong but, Annie, he respects you deep down. Given the position I was in a few weeks ago I’d have to say I’m enjoying Sam’ comments to Patrick, but don’t think for a second Patrick is not enjoying it too. I’m happy to be here. Thank you.

      Love and Blessings Always

      1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
        Spiritual_Annie

        I’m not so sure that Patrick means no harm. He knows (or says he does) what it’s like to have one’s beliefs attacked by another, whose relentless badgering and need to control the conversation based on theories (he says proofs) he holds just as strongly as any “fundangelical” (as he calls them).

        Damage can be done, rather than him saving us from our “misguided beliefs,” which if he’s half as smart as he pretends to be, he knows won’t win anyone over. Where his logic might possibly start to work, his personality kills whatever inquiry one might have.

        I can honestly say that whether Patrick respects me isn’t something I think about. It’s bad enough having to read him nearly verbatim even though I have him blocked because everyone quotes him. He’s still controlling the conversation, which I believe (based on the evidence) is his true goal. I long for all to have their say, but that doesn’t mean we can’t choose to ignore them. With Patrick, that may be the only choice he leaves us with because engaging with him suits his purpose.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
          Patrick Gannon

          I mean a lot of harm. If possible, I would disassemble Neale’s and ever other religion’s imaginary, invisible gods that live in the sky. You bet. I don’t know about my “soul’s agenda” but I know about mine.

          Annie says I refer to “proofs” but I would need to see an example of that. I say again and again that science never “proves” anything. I work hard to avoid that word in most cases. Annie, as usual, is intent on misrepresenting me, apparently because I ignite her cognitive dissonance.

          Annie focuses excessively in this post on how I am controlling the conversation. So what? Is she upset because I took that role away from her? Blocking me isn’t going to fix that! That’s the childish approach – “if you don’t play by my rules, I’m going to take the ball and go home.” Boo hoo.

          What always happens with Annie, as in this instance, is that the conversation is directed away from the topic, to personalities. It’s a common tactic of fundagelicals who can’t face the hard questions.

          1. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Annie is doing just fine, so are you. The one thing none of us will ever screw up is being who we are in any given moment, which is guaranteed to change in any given moment. A gift that all living things have is the ability to accept anyone any way they wish to show up. It’s a tough lesson to learn but very very possible!!! We do not need to shun that which is different. Embrace it. Learn to enjoy it. The person you hate today may be the person who saves you tomorrow.

          2. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I am doing quite well, for now, thank you. I’m very much me, most of the time. ?

            I’ve chosen not to feed into Patrick’s reason for being here, especially when it can cause harm, to myself and others. Any response feeds into it, so I’ve chosen not to.

          3. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Armor baby, armor! I found I can only be harmed by that which I allow. I’m reading a page, it’s all just words.

          4. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            It took two years of intensive therapy to get my d*mned armor off. I’ll not put it back on for the likes of Patrick.

          5. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Are you sure that wasn’t the dismantling of a wall? I had one of those too, now it’s just armor, put it on take it off. Comfortable fit. No problems.

          6. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            No, it was armor. Layers and layers of it, some soldered together, some rusty, but definitely armor. I took it off one layer at a time, which is why it took so long. I didn’t know then that I could blow it up from the inside, but I might have blown myself to bits. Or maybe I could’ve used a ginormous can opener, but then there’s all those worms to deal with all at once.

            No, layers were good, because I came out ready to make different choices. Like not wearing armor, but living instead with an unguarded heart. Doesn’t mean I don’t take care of me, I just do it differently now.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          7. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            I was some else the other day, as soon as I got back the other person left. Intimidation at its best!

      2. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        “just sharing himself.”

        And that a lot. With you, he is the true and normal average joe. And wonderful, if that’s been the whole story. But it’s not. He is posting things here not at all written by himself, not even by a long shot. Let me exemplify.

        First the normal Pat, from two days ago, to me:

        “Again – hilarious. Sorry for not responding right away. I tend to stay away from the computer on the weekends. Virtual Patrick1 has to cut the grass, while Virtual Patrick2 washes the truck, and Virtual Patrick3 barbeques on the grill, and Virtual Patrick 4 washes his girlfriend’s car, etc. I had to program a lot of virtual copies of myself this past weekend, and I still didn’t have time to come in here and read your post. I am so sorry. Please forgive my lapse. I hope my delayed response wasn’t too painful for you.”

        Then only one hour later he supposedly wrote this as well, also to me:

        “I really don’t see much in this post to debate. We’ve each stated our positions. I’ve placed my reliance in consensus science, demonstrated by compelling objective evidence from countless experiments and observations, while others place their reliance in pseudo-science that relies only on subjective data. I know too much about how unreliable the subjective brain can be, so I’m going where critical thinking directs me.”

        This is not Pat for one second. He: “don’t see much in this post to debate.” Lol, when does the old bulldog ever give in? And: “We’ve each stated our positions.” Lol, such phrasings do not exist in Pat’s vocabulary, not even in his dreams. And so on, and so forth. Two examples, side by side, posted just one hour apart. Easy for anybody to compare, and come to the only conclusion possible. This is not the same person.

        1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
          Spiritual_Annie

          Well, now, I suppose we could give him the benefit of the doubt.

          He could have Dissociative Identity Disorder, or what used to be called having multiple personalities. It’s caused by severe trauma, usually in childhood. Or it could possibly be Borderline Personality Disorder, which my niece has. It’s commonly evidenced by the need to be the center of attention, whether good or bad. But what he reminds me of is Narcissistic Personality Disorder, where one is the center of everything or one acts like a 10 year old. (Trump is a classic case.) But, without more personal information, it can’t be said for sure.

          He does seem to have a thing for unicorns, at least with me…

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          (Good HTML, BTW ? )

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Yeah, there is really something different with Pat, as other blogs have noticed as well. Multiple personalities could be one explanation, and me confronting him be a good thing—to have him make bridges 🙂
            But the switch between personalities should then be even more noticeable, for this to be the case. And the capacity in question, for one person only, is not realistic. So no, this is really a joint operation which includes several people. Maybe a school project, of some sort, or Pat finding some atheist-sponsor, for the purpose to talk some sense into folks like us, using somewhat qualified personnel (he does love money, and always on the lookout for an opportunity). But who knows.
            In any case, it’s not like I’m guessing. I know when I am talking with different people. There will never be a moment where I be in doubt, on this account 🙂

          2. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            I’ll bet you $10,000 that I am who I say I am, and I alone am responsible for what is posted under this account.

            You should have stuck with multiple personalities – that would have been more subjective. You chose an option that can be objectively confirmed, so please find me on Facebook, send me a message, I’ll give you my address; you can show up here with $10,000 and watch me do my thing. And leave without the cash…

          3. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Oh my, you are even more “limited” than average joe. Where did they find you all? 🙂

          4. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            OK, so you won’t take the wager, and you won’t produce the evidence, thus you lose the game. I enjoyed playing, but it seems to have nowhere else to go.

          5. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Yep, you seem lost 🙂

          6. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Damn…Im lost. Patrick just said ‘Iam who I say I am’.
            Those are lots of small works for Patrick…..Zzzzz, puts me to sleep BUT perhaps thats another persona…a Sam Sam green eggs and ham form of speech??? Hes trying to morph into you. Or Dr Seuss.
            K

          7. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “Damn…Im lost. Patrick just said ‘Iam who I say I am’.”

            Of course, Patrick, the old bulldog, is himself. Those others are not. Not grumpy joe, the fundamentalist (he is “a child”), nor sophisticated joe, presented in the second quote of the two examples put side by side. Check it out 🙂

            “Hes trying to morph into you”

            Great, one more! Let’s call him morphy joe 🙂

          8. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Hey ya,
            What I said probably would make sense if Id typed the word ‘words’ rather than works!!
            Ie those are lots of small WORDS for Patrick!! Using your Sam Sam I am Dr Seuss words! Duh!
            Yip I read that about the two examples..I laughed, standard eye for an eye karma, he accused Jethro of similar a few threads ago. Except sane people dont put up a bet of ten grand to prove a point, the rest of us work hard to make a buck.
            You should have told him to pay your airfares and accommodation to go hang out watching him bbq grill and clean the car, free holiday, then not paid up if youre wrong….he would have no legal case!! Dont you live in Europe somewhere?
            As I said to Mewabe ages ago, anyone with strong opinions and fanatics are boring, and exhausting, no matter their beliefs. Born again science freaks are as boring as born again Christians, CwGers etc. Its rather torturous to even read what they write, let alone being trapped in a room with them. Hell has many faces!!. When you truly believe in something and know it to be the truth, you have no need to argue or really talk about it, other than casually with like minded people.
            Sad thing is, he was devout in Christianity, throwing God in the trash rather than working out the truth from that halfway point…not cool to throw things away completely, its virtually impossible to get them back when you realise you had something of value…which he will one day.
            Im typing this to you not him because I know he hates people ‘talking behind his back’….Isnt the name of the game dissing what anyone else thinks??
            Take care,
            K

          9. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “Except sane people dont put up a bet of ten grand to prove a point, the rest of us work hard to make a buck.”

            Ice cold joe is not sane, for sure. It’s like there was no brain at all.

            “You should have told him to pay your airfares and accommodation to go hang out watching him bbq grill and clean the car, free holiday, then not paid up if youre wrong.”

            Jovial joe could put up a live feed of himself, as a start. For this world champion, be a breeze.

            “As I said to Mewabe ages ago, anyone with strong opinions and fanatics are boring and exhausting,”

            And none more than ice cold joe. But then he suddenly becomes someone else, completely. Which is somewhat intriguing.

            “When you truly believe in something and know it to be the truth, you have no need to argue or really talk about it, other than casually with like minded people.”

            True. I am done long time ago, on the basics. And if I should say something like, “on any mission making the world a better place, there is a mental picture of something wrong going on, which is the very reason for this happening in the first place”. And all you have is dead silence. No takers. Too deep, or far out. Better than to have it all sorted out in a book, for whoever gets it, whenever.

            “Sad thing is, he was devout in Christianity, throwing God in the trash rather than working out the truth from that halfway point…”

            “Christianity” has done many things wrong over a long period of time, and why they now find themselves in a pickle. I use to say: pluck out the best and run 🙂

          10. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Again, so spiritual of this woman, to ponder and propose psychological conditions of a person whose posts she has blocked. UnSpiritual Annie, tries to talk the talk of spirituality, but she certainly doesn’t walk it. If she is an example of what we are to get from Neale’s books, then that’s quite disappointing, because there’s nothing spiritual in her attacks on me, particularly given that she’s blocked me and is only responding to posts of others responding to me! How ethical is that? Her highest version/highest vision thing is floating in the gutter. What this sounds like, is actually a self-diagnosis.

            I’m sorry to disappoint, but I’ve had no childhood trauma aside from the psychological child abuse that Catholic indoctrination imposes on millions of children, as yet incapable of critical thinking. I’ve recovered quite a bit from that “trauma.”

            Yeah, I like to be the center of attention sometimes. So does Annie, so does Neale, so does Jethro, so do most all of us who contribute on a regular basis. So what? I don’t act like a 10 year old, initiating discussions about someone’s mental health after blocking their responses. What could be more childish than that? But hey, if it’s OK for Annie, it’s OK for me to comment on her mental states, right?

        2. Patrick Gannon Avatar
          Patrick Gannon

          Hmm. So how do I prove that I wrote both of those comments? Actually I don’t have to. Sam, you are making the claim, so you have to prove that two different people posted that. You hold the burden of proof. Aside from the fact that the first post is intended to be humorous, and the second was me bailing out of a useless debate going nowhere, the language looks pretty much the same.

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            I say all the evidence speaks for itself. But everyone must, of course, come to their own conclusion. I will only pop in to remind us once in a while. As it’s only fair. You are not “all that” 🙂

          2. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            I’m all that… and a bag of chips!! I say that will moving my head like its separate from my shoulders, you’ve seen it I’m sure.

          3. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            You absolutely are All That. And That. And That over there…

            My God! You’re everywhere and everything! (Pun intended. Humor is often useful.)

          4. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Your all that yourself Annie.
            Humor can save a life… you described my everywhere-ness like a fart in a small car… with the heater on. God didn’t have to give us those moments, or the need for sleep! How much more time would we have if we didn’t need to sleep and look for bathrooms?

          5. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            ROFLMAO! So you’re the secret-farter-in-the-car culprit! I guess that’s what’s meant by Rauch, loosely translated to Holy Wind.

          6. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            It’s rarely a secret… no shame.

          7. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            No, no, no. You started this game. You insist that there is more than one of me. You’ve presented two pieces of texts that you claim come from two different people. How do you plan to go about proving your claim?

          8. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Ah, the fundamentalist is back, playing the objective judge, as usual. One more head on the frankenstein monster. Did you say something? I don’t think so 🙂

          9. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “No, no, no.”

            So, today the jovial average-joe was gone, and in his place, we got grumpy joe, the fundamentalist.
            Grumpy joe was the first Patrick I had a short conversation with when first coming to this blog. And where I, at one instance, said to him: “No, no, no” (and his reply was: “yes, yes, yes”). And as we see, he is now playing this back to me, as what he recall, from our last and only conversation from earlier. Not before again being the exact same grumpy fundamentalist, just like back then, he would “remember”, of course, as those others playing Patrick as well is not him.
            One more piece of evidence in the pile. Picking the frankenstein monster apart as we go 🙂

          10. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Grumpy!? Grumpy? I wish you could see the big smile on my face as I spar with you in this silly game of yours. I could have walked away, but I’m having fun with it. You want to see grumpy? You should hang out on the Catholic blog. I can be downright mean and nasty at times, there. Here, I only give in attitude, what I get in attitude.

            You haven’t provided any evidence for anything, and as with some of your other posts, I am having difficulty deciphering this one; given what appears to be grammatical issues.

            How can I be a fundamentalist? This is the definition: “a person who believes in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture in a religion.” What strict literal interpretation of what scripture in what religion, do you refer to? Now, here’s a suggestion for you. If you arbitrarily capitalize the word “Fundamentalist,” then like Neale, you can completely change the meaning of the word to whatever you want.

            How does this work by the way? What are the logistics? I have a bunch of Patrick’s in my office waiting their turn at the keyboard? Or I sign out and let another Patrick sign in? How does each Patrick know when it is his turn to post? This forum doesn’t seem to show who is online at any given time, so how would Patrick2 know that Patrick1 is not on the forum so that he can take over?

          11. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            All in good time, dear “Frankenstein”. How you argue is like from a “newborn”. Quite frankly, it doesn’t interest me. I need more meat on the bone to make the effort. You being a group of people playing a game, is more intriguing. Let’s see if I can bring it all down. I have a couple of years to spare. Could be fun 🙂

          12. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Meat on the bone? Where’s yours? I challenged you to a $10,000 wager. You’ve produced no evidence for multiple copies of me. As the lady on the old commercial used to say, “Where’s the beef?” You have as much evidence as Neale does.

        3. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
          Spiritual_Annie

          You left out having to have the last word. Which I presume is why it looks like he replied to me, below, even though I have him blocked.

          1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            You speak ill of a person and then block them so you can’t see their response. You are so spiritual, Annie. Your highest version/highest vision leaves much to be desired.

        4. Jethro Avatar
          Jethro

          I don’t find it intimidating in the least. Confusing sometimes, but my comprehension has a little left to be desired most times. If I’m speaking to AI that’s ok, I’m impressed by level of communication.

          I’ve learned a lot about my own beliefs while trying to defend it. Excellent exercise.

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            I somewhat agree. But it’s not fair: Many against the one, coming across as a bottomless authority. You can trick people like that, making them feel inferior, having them surrender to whatever. And just because you, Jethro, are strong, doesn’t mean everyone is. All authorities need to be brought down somewhat, for others to find some fresh air. And none more than this frankenstein-thing, calling itself Patrick Gannon.

        5. Kristen Avatar
          Kristen

          Girlfriend????? Really????
          Thats the bit that has me stumped..biarchy mood!!

    2. Kristen Avatar
      Kristen

      Rough few days? Is all ok now?
      Daughters texting daily as ordered to. In 3 days shes navigated the London underground, been to Ripleys, British museum, Maddam Tussards, London Dungeon, London Eye, M&M World, Choccywoccydoodah cafe and big ben.
      No terrorists so far thank goodness, but Ill feel so much better on Saturday when shes on a Contiki bus for 6 weeks. Although her first week in France is probably as nerve wracking! I just wont think about it.
      Then her dream after her tour….the Titanic museum and Ireland. Im sure the Titanic museum isnt a target!
      Take care Annie,
      Xx

      1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
        Spiritual_Annie

        Better, at any rate. It’s been raining here for days and days, and is to continue for days and days. Weather fronts moving through increase my pain.

        I’m glad you’re hearing from your daughter regularly. Sounds like a grand tour! I’ve never been out of the States, but traveling isn’t really my thing. Did my share of bus riding the year I went to college in Iowa, a 12-hour ride each way. Did my share of flying when I lived in California and Mama was in Missouri. I guess my butt’s planted here until we go underwater—I live on a peninsula on a peninsula—right next to a bay—in Florida, so when sea levels rise, we’re one of the first to know.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        1. Kristen Avatar
          Kristen

          Michelle can visit, she’s a dolphin today!

  9. Patrick Gannon Avatar
    Patrick Gannon

    1. Possibility – given the total lack of compelling, objective evidence, the possibilities are far, far greater, that there are no gods or afterlives. Yes, there is a possibility that unicorns exist, but it’s such a small possibility that it makes no sense spending any time on it. The possibility for gods and afterlives is about the same as for unicorns – actually unicorns may be more likely to have actually existed for a brief time. Maybe we’ll find fossil remains some day. We won’t find any compelling, objective evidence for gods though, will we?

    “we already know that people have had conversations with God. Moses said he did, and many believe him, ”

    NO, we do not “already know that people have had conversations with God.” We know people have claimed this – Jim Jones, Charlie Manson, Marshall Applewhite, etc. What we know, beyond reasonable doubt is that there was no mass Exodus from Egypt as described in the bible and hence no Moses. Just because people believe that these people have had a conversation with some imaginary, invisible being that lives in the sky, certainly does not mean it actually happened. Joseph Smith – how could Neale use that terrible example? Smith was a known fraud, for crying out loud. That’s his evidence? Joseph Smith? The man who claimed Jews moved to America in 500 BC, yet not a shred of Jewish DNA is found in native Americans? The man who claimed a huge battle was fought between dark and light skinned people in America using horses that were not introduced till the 1600s, and steel weapons that had never existed in America until about the same time, and for which zero evidence exists in the archaeological record. The man who said that people of dark skin were cursed by God? That was the communication Smith had with God. Come on Neale, you can do better than that!

    Like any religious leader, Neale is starting with an unproven conclusion. He wants to teach us about the care and feeding of unicorns, without having established that unicorns exist.

    2. Worthiness – I don’t understand this title or heading. What follows in this section is excellent advice regarding mindfulness and meditation. No gods required. This is all stuff that is good for our brains, good for our consciousness. Is “god” being defined as the state in which we stop our System 2 thinking so as to experience a different state of consciousness? God or no god, if you learn to meditate, we can learn to take greater control of the hamster on the spinning wheel in our brains. This has nothing to do with being “worthy.” It has to do with self-control and self discipline.

    3. Willingness – we shall see where that takes us. Being willing to believe in things for which there is absolutely no compelling, objective evidence should be off the table.

    1. Jethro Avatar
      Jethro

      The unicorns remains are laying under the missing links bones.

      1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
        Patrick Gannon

        Right next to the remains of gods and afterlives.

        1. Jethro Avatar
          Jethro

          If Gods and afterlife had bones we’d have physical proof. Truth is they’re both stored in a lightning bolt and those are dangerous to dig in!

    2. Marko Avatar

      “NO, we do not “already know that people have had conversations with
      God.” We know people have claimed this – Jim Jones, Charlie Manson,
      Marshall Applewhite, etc” Those might be more accurately called highly distorted conversations with God.

      If there is no God & we are just having conversation with ourselves, so be it. CwG as well as other spiritual disciplines conclude more or less this

      Sufi proverb:

      “I searched for God and only found myself, I searched for myself and only found God.”

      Meaning there is no difference. Save what Neale calls portion, we are a smaller portion, God is the larger portion. I personally think we purposefully incarnate in this smaller portion form to see/experience the vastness & wonder of the ourselves as the Universe, which is simply a larger part of us looking back at us.

      If you believe in intuition (which I think you do based on past talks here) that is the part of us that is psychic, which is very subjective, and can vary depending on our openness & current state of mind. It’s in this highly subjective state that NDE & afterlife experiences are experienced. To conclude it’s all in the mind only, is true. All experience is in the mind, even though it includes the body & it’s nebulous invisible brother the soul. Call him James Brown.

      CwG says of physical life that it’s all subjective. There is no objective truth. Thus we can conclude that even the afterlife is an illusion & subjective, as all life is physical even the hereafter according to CwG material. The afterlife being a different form than the physical we now experience.

      Unicorns do exist Pat, we simply have their ugly fat brother the Rhino on this planet! 😉

      Did Moses, Jesus, Bozo the clown really exist? Possibly, but only ET’s who have holographic proof of that time period will really convince some of us. Or, some future historical as yet found archeological discoveries. What matters to me personally, is less of the idea of whether say Jesus lived or not, but what was left, or purported to be said by him (which is disputable given early church editing & omissions) and can we use it. The church did omit the belief in reincarnation since it empowered the people to come back & get them later on.

      I can appreciate the logic you are coming from & it suits you well. But I don’t feel that anything I or others say here is really going to convince you to change your perspective. Perhaps I’m just slightly more amusing to you. 🙂

      So while I think you really do have an honest inquiry to these cosmic ontological existential matters, here and elsewhere in the internet blog world,–I’m not sure what else you are getting from us or this? Or why you stick around? I’m not sure. What is your purpose here & what keeps you coming back? Entertainment perhaps?

      1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
        Patrick Gannon

        Bozo existed. I used to watch him as a little kid! There is compelling, objective evidence for him! Moses almost certainly did not. Jesus – hard to say… the odds are against it… certainly not as depicted, but there may have been an itinerant preacher who ticked off the Romans and got himself (permanently) killed. I think he was a mythical figure, but we have insufficient evidence to say definitively one way or the other.

        I appreciate your perspective, but I think Neale insists on a real deity. My primary goal is to try and convince people to challenge their beliefs, by providing evidence and information that disputes those beliefs. I don’t think lying to ourselves is healthy, and that’s what you do when you tell your brain to believe something for which it has no evidence.

        Why do I stick around? Why not? The job’s not done. If Neale were to pen an article saying that he is retiring, that he manifested the whole thing out of his imagination, and thank everyone for their financial contributions to his well-being, then I’d be done. I could praise and admire him as a clever scoundrel, and chuckle over the fools who parted with their money (myself included) to his benefit. I will continue to badger the Catholic Church which unlike Neale’s organization, worships an evil god. The RCC is in trouble. Attendance is plummeting and what we’ve learned from DNA debunks the Church’s belief in original sin, and without that, there’s no justification for the existence of the Church. They know that – and they are trying to bury it and hide it behind other distractions like whether divorced Catholics who remarry, should be permitted to take Communion.

        Yeah, entertainment is part of it too. I enjoy matching wits. I enjoy the debate. My dad was a great debater. We used to go at it all the time. When he was no longer able to do so because of dementia, that told me that I needed to keep my mind sharp and active, which he didn’t do for reasons I won’t go into here. Part of the reason for being here is to stay frosty, stay active, keep learning, keep debating, keep questioning, keep answering, keep on keeping on. What else is there to do? I enjoy it. Why should I stop?

        Why do you stick around? Why does anyone? Why am I the only one asked this question? Again and again and again….

        1. Marko Avatar

          You get this question more probably because you seem a bit relentless in your challenges. I’ve seen others come and go who challenged as well, they too have taken a delight in getting some people worked up. I’d rather inspire, but I do know the game you are playing & I think you hope to eventually, or, at least here and there hit some really sweet spots, that bring you some reasonable satisfaction.

          It will be interesting to see how long you stay. At some point you accept the theory & how it works or doesn’t in your life, or even part of it. Otherwise I think you will eventually tire of being here, but, we will see.

          I on the other hand, study the CwG writings on pretty much a daily basis. So I’m here as an enthusiastic student.

          I’ve been on Neale’s blogs since the beginning, like 18 years or so. I’ve watched and seen a lot of changes & advancements.

          I’ve pretty much said all I can say to you without repeating what I’ve already said before.

          Good luck in your endeavors. I do think you are sincere in your efforts here. Perhaps I’ll weigh in on a few things with you here and there, but I doubt I will give you anything real satisfying, so doubt it will be helpful either. That’s okay, that’s just where it’s at.

          1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Thanks for sharing, Marko. You’ve got me beat. I read the first three books in 2009. I started with the “Conversations Movement” back in 2012. That’s when this idea floated that we enthusiasts should spread the CwG movement through personal contacts with media, stars, politicians, sportspeople, etc. but that was all canceled in favor of the standard New Age business model with DVDs and retreats and programs, and books, etc. Several of us were disappointed to discover that it was really all about money, and I think this startled some of the involved insiders at the time, who bailed out afterwards.

            I can’t say I “study” CwG as I did in the old days, but I search through it from time to time, and now, the more closely I read it, the less sense it makes to me. Of course I also made the mistake of learning enough real science to understand that there is a tremendous burden of proof on Neale for any gods and afterlives.

            Please understand that there are some things of great value, in his works, just as there are in any religious work. This particular article about mindfulness and meditation can be very helpful. On the other hand, caution is needed. I’ve been reading articles recently about people having very bad experiences meditating. Lots of people are getting into it, without really knowing what they are doing, and some are having bad meditation “trips.” I’ve never had anything like that happen to me, but we’re playing with people’s brains here.

            However mindfulness is a powerful and useful personal tool, when you need to pull yourself together in a hurry, and clear your mind of the crap so you can think clearly, logically and critically, so I certainly endorse it, as do the Marines and the Navy Seals. But no gods are required. I don’t know if you read “Stealing Fire.” All this consciousness stuff is great – but it’s not other-worldly, and that’s what I object to, when someone like Neale takes advantage of widespread scientific illiteracy, in order to fill his wallet. So, I’m going to share stuff that actually has evidence behind it. Neale can’t claim that with regard to his god.

          2. Marko Avatar

            I hear you bro. I think you are actually doing what Neale suggests. Take from CwG what works for you & if other stuff does not, leave it. So congrats on using the material in a way that suits you and your logic.

            Use the practical mindful, psychological stuff etc. and leave the ethereal esoterics to others.

            ” That’s when this idea floated that we enthusiasts should spread the CwG
            movement through personal contacts with media, stars, politicians,
            sportspeople, etc. but that was all canceled in favor of the standard
            New Age business model with DVDs and retreats and programs, and books,
            etc. Several of us were disappointed to discover that it was really all
            about money, and I think this startled some of the involved insiders at
            the time, who bailed out afterwards.”

            Having been with Neale personally & with many others who are even closer to him, this sentiment has never come up.

            Some years ago I had lunch with his former personal secretary who is still much involved with his work and she told me that he gave most of his money away. That of course was her personal opinion.

          3. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “she told me that he gave most of his money away”

            That’s how I imagined it.

        2. Jethro Avatar
          Jethro

          “Why am I the only one asked this question? Again and again and again”…. Because you are viewed as someone who hates what this site stands for. It is viewed in the same manner as stepping in a large pile of dung and standing there even though you are aware of it and claim to not like the dung. It was hard for me to understand at first but figured out you enjoy the debate. A debate cannot be held between two people who agree, You have to be in a crowed of people who disagree if your gonna play the game. Nobody really understands you yet, even after all this time.

          1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            Jethro,

            Oh, my! An early morning image of dung heaps. Oddly, that’s got me smiling.

            I think you hit the nail on the head—Patrick is here because he enjoys it. I’d take it even further and say he’s addicted, since he apparently posts arguments on other blogs as well, or so he’s said.

            I won’t call it “debating,” though. That has rules, and he regularly breaks them. (One of my sibs was on the Debate Team for three years and I was enlisted to rip apart his weak points, so I’m familiar with the rules of civil debate.) He becomes judgmental and makes assumptions about personalities (or, at least he did with me, though he accused me of doing that very thing when I defended myself). Whenever I’d confront him with his own ideas, reworded but with the same meaning, he’d revert to calling it a “straw man” tactic when it wasn’t. And I believe he’s still angry about feeling he was taken in by a charlatan as that’s how he often has referred to Neale, so it’s personal. None of those things belongs in debate, though they’re common in arguments.

            I can tell by other people’s comments that he’s in attack mode against me because I’ve stopped playing his game. That just tells me he’s showing his true nature. By disengaging, I’ve taken away part of what he desires—to argue, be the center of attention, and be in control of the conversation. His reaction was predictable. I’d even bet good money he’s implied I’m not playing fair by commenting about him while I have him blocked, but when he’s the topic at hand, I certainly have the right to express my own opinion. (How long did it take for him to call me “Unspiritual Annie,” another of his tactics?)

            I will continue to stay disengaged as I’ve already given him more than a second chance. And I will continue to say a prayer for him every time I see “This user is blocked.”

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          2. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            “I will continue to stay disengaged.” WHAT! What the heck is she talking about? Post after post after post about me, and she claims she is “disengaged”????? What a riot! Somebody send her a dictionary so she can look up “disengaged.” To be “disengaged” is to be emotionally detached. Does any rational person here think Annie is emotionally detached?

            What crap – I have not initiated any posts to Annie, only responded to her rants. She apparently wants to spend more time talking about me than anything else. She never misses an opportunity to criticize me. If she wants it to stop, then she can stop making post after post after post about me! You’d think she had a crush on me, she’s so fixated on me.

          3. Gross Prophet Avatar
            Gross Prophet

            Yeah…we can all see. You display no sign of psychopathy, whatsoever…/s

          4. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Well, I certainly don’t “hate” what this site stands for. It’s supposed to stand for a global conversation, and I don’t think anyone here has spoken of the advantages of that more than myself. Recall, that I want to start a global conversation about the five pillars of the Abrahamic religions that have washed away, leaving those religions debunked. There’s no “hate” involved in participating in this site. I am concerned that so many people are led astray by people like Neale who enrich themselves by promoting beliefs that have no evidence.

            There are fundagelicals who show up here every once in a while. They go on about how Neale is a spawn of Satan for not following the bible literally, but they never last long – after all, they have no more evidence than Neale does. I, on the other hand, support things that have libraries and labs full of compelling, objective evidence, so it is not so easy to chase me away. Instead of running out of material, the evidence for my side continues to mount. Why would I walk away, when science is winning? The more I am challenged, the more I try to learn more.

            I prefer to think of myself as the person who takes up the pitchfork and picks up the dung, slinging it off to the manure pile on the side, and replacing it with clean straw, only for unfounded beliefs and faith, to crap all over it again.

            Yes, I do enjoy the debate. I guess it’s kind of cool that I’m an enigma. I’m OK with that. Never wanted to be just another member of a crowd. Go big or go home!

    3. babybleustardust Avatar
      babybleustardust

      Patrick, if it is true that “there is a total lack of compelling, objective evidence, the possibilities are far, far greater, that there are no gods or afterlives,” then why does the majority of the world believe in both a god of some sort and an afterlife? huh? Just answer that one, okay 🙂 I’m sticking on my horse and it can be purple and pink and gold and silver with a touch of blue and a pink bow on his head. He’s quantum, man, and if an atom blinks, it’s done. Species are born with a thought and evolution is a revolution. What we do is say what we don’t need and what the world needs is a god not a not-god but a quantum belief is still a belief in a god because god is quantum, so you believe in quantum energy. Therefore you believe. I guess I can’t call you pagan, Patrick, after all 🙂 .

      1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
        Patrick Gannon

        I have a soft spot for Pagans. I am FB friends with a pagan gal in Scotland. We used to participate in a blog about god. Back then, I was pitching CwG with great evangelistic zeal.

        As to why we believe in gods and souls, most researchers think it gave us an evolutionary advantage. There are several lines of thought on the subject and I’m not sure I can do it justice but I’ll try.

        Some suggest that it’s the result of bottom-up Darwinian evolution. There was an evolutionary advantage in creating these traits or preferences for gods and religions. They gave us a way to cope with out growing understanding (that animals do not seem to have) that we are food for worms, i.e. we’re gonna die. It was a way to explain the unknown, a way to be drawn together in tribes for mutual safety and success, a way to identify us versus them. Others think that the evolution was more top down, and point to a term originated by Richard Dawkins called “memes.” Memes are ideas, concepts, short stories, that like biological entities, take on a life of their own and evolve and change and mutate as they are passed down from generation to generation. Words, in this sense are memes. With the invention of language, Daniel Dennett a leading researcher on the subject, suggests that our minds are the result of top down meme evolution in addition to bottom up, biological evolution. To try and create the chain of logic he uses to arrive at this idea is more than I can put into a post here, but his argument is very compelling.

        Religion and gods in this sense, are memes. They are ideas that took root and they changed, mutated, evolved, and became ingrained in our societies. As it turns out, there are some, very few, isolated tribes that do not have belief in gods and souls, and that would support the top-down evolutionary idea; in other words it wasn’t the result of biological evolution, but something that evolved as part of society, a word meme that referred to a concept that caught on, reproduced and persisted. Like biological organisms it might be imagined that memes also reproduce, as did the Catholic Church, with countless offspring, being produced; and like biological organisms, the religion/god meme may have a limited life as well.

        The short answer is that we’re still working on the question (no, Sam, by “we” I don’t mean me personally), but the articles I’m reading indicate that other researchers think Dennett’s ideas make a lot of sense; and after all, he’s aggregating what the whole field of study is learning. Biological evolution normally happens quite slowly, but our minds apparently developed very quickly – something that has been puzzling – and this appears to have been linked to the word meme. It influenced natural selection, but at a faster rate since it was driven top down.

        Go back 50,000 years and you’re going to prefer to mate with someone else who can talk, and the trait is passed on. Those with brains that make word memes operate better reproduce at greater rates than their peers, so they pass on their genes, speeding up the process. Whatever biological advantage made the brain capable of it in the first place, the exercise of speech then advanced the evoluiton of the mind and even the brain, by making that trait more desirable; so it developed quickly. That’s the theory as I understand it. It’s a theory that does not have the weight of evidence behind it that something like the core theory of physics, has though. It’s a work in progress.

        Hope that helps.

        1. Sam Avatar
          Sam

          “The short answer is that we’re still working on the question (no, Sam, by “we” I don’t mean me personally)”

          Well, you are pretty high on yourself, I am not sure 🙂

          1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            “..you are pretty high on yourself..”

            If true, would that be so bad? If so, why? I wonder if a lot of issues people have are because deep down, they really don’t like themselves….

          2. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            And you are sure you’re not on something? 🙂

          3. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            I exercise my fifth amendment right not to incriminate myself.

            Actually, at the moment, no. I’m generally looking for my friend Jack this time of day, but I have karate class to teach tonight. I get to beat up a bunch of little kids twice a week! How cool is that! Jack has to wait till I get back.

            We had a test for a bunch of white belts last week, and we always ask the kids their names, ages, stuff like that, and why they took karate. Usually it’s because their parents make them. I turned to the parents in the stands and told them they should join karate with their kids, like I did. I explain that it’s the only place you’re allowed to hit your kids in public! I received an enthusiastic response! I left unsaid, that the day comes, after they advance in rank, when the kids are hitting the parents in public! I still tell my son I can take him, but I’m in no hurry to try to prove that! Uh oh, I’m rambling – because I’m putting off dealing with a business issue.

            As for other substances – see the first line again. LOL

          4. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Here I am having senseless conversations with you – doing exactly what I criticized Jethro for. I’m having fun, but might have to let this go.

          5. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            And hello there, jovial joe, old bulldog. Your brain is pretty slow, compared to grumpy joe, the fundamentalist. But on the other side, he is just “a child”, having no depth or baggage. Have a good watch. I am turning in 🙂

          6. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Mmmmmmm interesting. Interesting info and take on a lot of things…why the heck would anyone want to hurt a kid, let alone theirs?
            Now drinking comes up….wow! Looking for your friend Jack???? Whats with the LOL about drugs and drinking?
            And you dont like personal stuff or attacks in here?

          7. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Surely you can’t have misunderstood the humor? I live in Bible Belt territory and people do whip/spank their kids. They know they can’t do it in public or they will be in trouble. I’m chiding them. In karate class however, the JOKE is that they can hit their kids and get away with it. We call it sparring, and the hitting is very light, or it is quickly stopped. We only hit from the waist to the top of the chest. Nothing to the back, nothing to the knees, etc., nothing to the head. We take scared, intimidated, kids (and women) teach them basics and get them sparring – no pads, just personal control. I wear myself out dancing around the kids and teasing them about how they can’t hit the old man. They go from being afraid to hit me, to chasing me around and trying their best to do so. It’s a blast. Always, some kid is asking, “Do we get to spar today?”

            The kids pick it up pretty quickly with an instructor who can get them out of the shell, but you get moms who are too scared to hit, because they’ve been told all their lives to be demure, subservient, etc. They push the arm out, with nothing behind it. It sometimes takes a while, but those of us who have been doing this for a long time can take a hit, and to get them started, we encourage them to hit us harder than under normal sparring circumstances. Boy, the change on the women’s faces as they experience the pleasure of punching a guy in the stomach hard! Each shot a little harder and each smile a little wider. Some of them become quite proficient. It’s really fun to watch parent/child sparring. We’re sitting on the sideline, “Come on Tommy! Imagine your dad just took away your cellphone!” Now siblings sparring each other sometimes has to be more carefully monitored!

            You’re right – I let Sam suck me into a nonsensical debate, but you guys blather on about nonsensical stuff, so I figured I was overdue to waste data bits myself. Yes, I look for my friend Jack in the evening, but on weekends, my gal pal Margarita sometimes joins me in the evening. Every once in a while, though very rarely, my other gal pal Bloody Mary will show up for breakfast. I don’t know what any of this has to do with personal attacks. Nobody has insulted anyone else in this exchange.

          8. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Haha…you forgot that everything I say is said with a smile!!!
            Nice to see you felt a need to explain yourself and speak normally without a boring text book though..Another round to me.
            Blathering is good, general normal conversation.
            Cider and sparkling Rose here, plus Heineken as beer choice, but I hardly drink, maybe once a month if that. Cheap date, three drinks and Im trying not to heave! My bodies never been able to take much alcohol.
            Take care,
            K

          9. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Heineken is good. Samuel Adams comes in handy and a scottish lager Wow stiff one. Actually, my personal favorite is corona with lime and salt. mmmm I used to never drink but divorce allows me to have one. I went twenty years without a drink and now I can take two with a smile. Anymore and I am likely dancing not with a shade but viva le moment a little too much 🙂 I can’t hold any whiskey. Oh god. Never would I do whiskey. In college, it was martini with green olives. Wow but not now. I am light headed with two coronas once a month or so.

          10. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “Nice to see you felt a need to explain yourself and speak normally without a boring text book though..”

            True. Normal Joe is okay. But then someone has it switched to syco-mode, putting in 1200 words, time and energy, on quoting rules(!) (on a spiritual blog!), totally running people over, relentlessly attacking. That is no human, but a thing, having all kinds of information easily at hand, and therefore easy to do. Yuck 🙂

          11. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Yeah I l know. I said in here years ago, to Mewabe, that Ill only talk to people with personality and showing it, refusing to speak when people are robotic or speaking like a brainwashed clone vomiting out facts or quotes. Thats what boring text books are for, not people. Been there, done that, the boring books are demoted to collecting dust! Its scary when people dont show personality and somehow speak online different to how they would in real life and Im sheer stubborn when it comes to finding the person behind the “it”, mask, bullcrock, facts especially in real life.
            “That is no human, but a thing”‘….ref quote Sam on CwG Global Conversation, June 2017, I wouldnt want to get sued for plaigarism, what a douche!, yip…I ignore ‘it’, puts me to sleep, or redirect the conversation to human beings being human…then Normal Joe suddenly reappears. Funny that, there seems to be a stop button on the “it”, and its chit chat! Patrick has said he’s in here conducting a social experiment, just turn it around on him and make him speak as a person. Although how a science geek can present a true result based on this is beyond me…sounds like made up science. Especially since the word social in that context means ‘relating to human society or organised, or informal gathering (Collins NZ dictionary, 175 years of dictionary publishing publishing, page 771, again, so I dont get sued). No other definition fits the so called unscientific experiment.
            SINCE HE/IT HAS BEEN OPEN ABOUT THAT, ALTHOUGH PROBABLY ONLY TO ME, YOU SHOULD ASK FOR A COPY OF THE DETAILS AND ENSURE YOU ARE GIVING CONSENT BUT ITS NOT AN EXPERIMENT AT ALL, THERE IS MORE THAN ONE DEVIANCE, THEREFORE SUE FOR THE TEN GRAND HE HAS SPARE! haha.

            Even if a real experiment, legal and had a point, his professional opinion, therefore hypothesis, is that no matter what he does or says people will react exactly as he predicts (from an IT guy!). Well, hes forgotten the one factor about human reactions, and Universal Laws…THAT EVERY ACTION HAS A REACTION, AND THE REACTOR OWNS THEIR OWN REACTION, ITS SOMETHING THE INSTIGATOR CANNOT CONTROL, ESPECIALLY LONG TERM. ie If a sexual abuser gets the reaction 40 years later of someone cutting off his balls, then tough shirte. Thats how Karma works, it can bite you in the bum at anytime, in any form and anywhere, IF based on reactions.

            Ask “it” about shoes, or anything irrelevant, but ever so important in human lives, and the “it” dies a sudden death. Yahoo!
            I do hope your BFF Patrick, and his “it” buddy note that I’ve put all your references in speechmarks, and the source of it!
            Take care,
            K

          12. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Bible belt. Spare the rod and spoil the child never sunk into this southern belle. Never would I spank. I never believed in it ever. I wonder why any would feel the need to do this? Spanking is not normal, not that I was normal as a kid but I know I never deserved the “spankings” i got.

          13. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Define normal. Normal for who or what? Animals in the wild will cuff their cubs to teach them something to save their lives. I’m one of those who thinks a quick smack on the butt of the kid who almost jumped out of your hands and ran across the street into traffic is worth any future angst or mental anguish – if it serves to save the kid’s life in the future. Remember, we are animals. We survived because some of those animal traits kept us alive.

            Now, I know what’s next. Pat the child abuser. Sigh.

          14. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I am not saying that but I am that who did not spank at all and that scenario happened to me and I jumped in front of the car to get my kid. Would do it again and again and again all over again without a spank. Not saying you’re an abuser, just different strokes for different folks 😉

          15. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I never spanked my boys. Not even a swat on the well-padded diaper. David’s punishment, as he was eight years older than Brandon, was barring him from his electronics. He had an Atari game system and a Tandy PC. Man, he’d sulk! I always found with little ones that a sharp or loud calling of their name or just “NO!” stopped them in their tracks so they wouldn’t get hurt, then I’d follow with an explanation at their level of understanding. (I had lots and lots and lots of practice with my many nieces and nephews, being the go-to babysitter.)

            Sometimes it was letting them do something that was harder. Brandon falling on his butt when he was learning to walk. David riding his bike to school. Those kinds of things were more nerve wracking for me. Or when Brandon got a miniaturized and motorized Big Foot truck. Yikes!

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          16. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “Not saying you’re an abuser, just different strokes for different folks ;)”

            Violent behavior towards children. Indifference, smile, and a wink. Sad. I take your wings back.

          17. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “Now, I know what’s next. Pat the child abuser.”

            Here I live you are by law. And regardless any laws too, in my view.

          18. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Patrick, I can’t believe that you teach karate. Here is why. You said some of you woo goddesses try growing legs on a paraplegic. I thought you were in a wheelchair or something because of the war. I thought you were a vet or something. See how we dream and don’t know diddly squat. Here you teach karate. What degree? In my life, I am one known as the Black Jack Kid. Nevermind, I am a mama that doesn’t give a rip about the color of my belt. If somebody came at my kid, I whip out memory and whoa whoa whoa black jack mama swings with all she’s got and it’s a pink belt lined with blue baby blue. HeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeYaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah and that’s the loudest HeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeYaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah you’ll ever see, hear, taste, think in your moving and grooving quantum scientific brain. boomshakalaka nothing but something. Here is my fortune that just came in. One is for my black daddy jack cat who said this is my fortune. They gave me two cookies. This is his and I got that message apriori before opening my fortune cookie his fortune cookie. Here’s his quantum Guy in the apple of my eye the big tree in the orchard. Hold on. It says “Let there be magic in your smile and firmness in your handshake.” Me? I smile but I never give a big handshake. Here is my fortune: “Go after what you want. There is no time like the present.” That’s me. I’m taking it as a premonition. I’m going after aaah I don’t know something. I’m going after something. Guy is something. He must be something to put up with me 🙂

          19. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Hmm. I don’t know where you got the idea I was in a wheelchair. I have commented on the inability of prayer, or the “law” of attraction or anything else, to ever heal an amputee, but that’s about it. I’ve mentioned several times that I run two or three evenings a week, and read (listen to) audible books while I run. Something always hurts at my age, but you gotta keep moving.

            I’m not a Vet. My draft number was “16” back in 1973 when the Vietnam War was winding down and the draft ended. With that number, I was absolutely going to be drafted. My dad was military, and my son is military – I came of age when the military was downsizing.

            I’ve been doing karate for about 20 years, I guess. I had stopped but took it up again when my son got old enough. I always joked that it was so I could hit him in public, and we did have a lot of fun sparring. I still spar with him if he comes home on leave and comes to class with me – but I’m a bit more careful now, not to make him mad! I keep telling him I can still take him (but I don’t particularly want to test that!).

          20. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            That’s good. I wouldn’t test any kid called black jack. I am a black daddy jack and no kid is aiming higher than his daddy never. Every kid can win against the daddy jack. Why? Because kids are you kidding about kids or not? Kids are always smarter than their parents.

          21. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Don’t ask me that question. Don’t even think of it. I smile for nothing. Seriously, people see me and say “what are you on. I want some.” I am contagious, deliously happy on nothing but nothing. something is nothing. seriously, something is nothing. Why? because to have something is to have nothing. It’s magic. We’re here but not. To speak of nothing is to speak of something, and to speak of something is to speak of no thing :0)

          22. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Awwww Patrick. We really love you. Now everybody get off paga Patrick. He needs to go to confession and say a few hail Marys. In the name of the Father, the Mother and the HOly Ghost. Say your prayers man or count those beads. I’m going to New Orleans after the Mexican cavern but that is in spring when I wear my beads my damn self oh well. I better go to confession. Whew divorce has a way of making one tell endless streams of nothing. It’s probably my new belly button ring green emrald crystal. Okay. It’s magic. I confess I am the pink ribbon of the Green Man 🙂 Look it up in Scotland. Who said they are going to Scotland? I went Rosland Chapel 1988 touched the Green Man myself whew what a man wow wee

          23. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I’m jealous! That’s one of the places I would be willing to travel to, is Rosalind Chapel, just because it’s such an oddity. I hear they had to close it to tourists after Dan Brown’s book went Hollywood. Too much damage being done.

            Oh, the nostalgia! I don’t often think about all the posessions I’ve lost, but I do wish I still had my first rosary, only because I worked so hard to earn it from my Granny. I was so young that it was made out of seed beads—the itty bitty ones—and was still in its original snap-shut clutch that said “My First Rosary” on it in gold lettering. Had my great grandmother’s worn out one, too, since I was named after her. Don’t miss the forced praying, though. Spontaneous suits me much better.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

        2. babybleustardust Avatar
          babybleustardust

          Patrick, I know this response is worthy. I’m going to come back, of course, after I google a few of your references, and I will quote something because as an english teacher, I know that I can use block quotes perfectly in aligntment with MLA standard format according the Modern Literature Association, but here is what I want to comment on for now. Go back 50,000 years and find a mate who can speak a meme? or not. When was fire started? I want that guy, the fire starting. Who needs words man with a fire starting king. I am a queen fire fire fire I’m rambling on here. Time for a chinese cookie soon. Neale must make a post soon before we turn into another 555 thread blog. I’ll be back. Love you anyhoo. Don’t tell your girlfriend not. Tell her I love her for putting up with you 🙂

    4. Patrick Gannon Avatar
      Patrick Gannon

      I doubt many noticed that I like Neale’s Point #2, though I don’t care for the name “Worthiness” or see the connection to imaginary, invisible gods that live in the sky (grin). I stumbled across this video that I saw a while back, and for your friends who have no idea what meditation is all about, or how to do it, this is a really good, quick, short video of how to meditate. Google “youtube how to train your monkey mind” This is a great expansion of Neale’s 10-second meditation suggestion.

      1. babybleustardust Avatar
        babybleustardust

        monkey mind is for monkeys and so are bananas. I hate bananas. Will eat them if I need to but seriously I like berries much more. At any rate, give us the short version of what this “expert” does differently. There are so many ways to meditate that no one can create a perfect one for any one 🙂 I am perfect when I just close my eyes and see into the deep. It gets ramped up. All I got to do is look up into the forehead region and dreaaaaaam dream dream when I want to be at peace. Hold on. I am smoking and drinking coke zero woo baby woo

        1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
          Patrick Gannon

          He does nothing different – basic breath focus – but the way he teaches it, is amusing and easily interpreted by those who don’t know what meditation is all about. It’s a quick, short video – well worth the watch.

          1. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            oh yeah. You’re right. I forgot all about the breath focus. That gets really intense. Sometimes before my wreck. It’s been awhile since I’ve been that laid back but I could do like my grandma and play dead. It was like I wasn’t breathing. Just pure stillness. Whew that was bliss but my God told me kriya how do you spell it? yoga is good and that book taught about breathing too. I might take that up. Who knows. I might take up karate. I need a white belt to go on top of my pink one. I might need a black belt before it is ovrer 🙂 I know a very good shihan and damn he is a hunk too 🙂 oh well. I love martial arts.

  10. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
    Spiritual_Annie

    This just struck me, after years of experiencing it:

    “…I should say that God talks all the time, but we can hear God better in the spaces between our thoughts.”

    YES! Thank you, Neale, for you’ve solved a conundrum for me.

    People have asked me periodically what it is I am thinking about when I drift off during just an everyday conversation. I can’t give them an answer because I don’t remember thinking about anything in particular. I’m not daydreaming, nor do I find most conversations unpleasant enough to leave (exception here, noted). Those who’ve known me a while just let me be because, if no one brings me back to the here and now, I will end up blurting out something completely unrelated to the topic that solves a problem (mine or theirs), or they find profoundly wise.

    I do believe that I’m listening, just not to the conversation in the room.

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    1. Marko Avatar

      Fascinating.

      1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
        Spiritual_Annie

        Yeah, one more weirdness solved. But it now makes sense as I don’t remember thinking about whatever it is that I end up blurting out. I’ve noticed that pattern in some of my meditation. I keep paper and pen at the ready, just in case I hear something I want to remember. There’s the same veil between the Source and whatever it is that I hear that happens with both. I’m actively working on lifting that veil in meditation in the desire for a direct connection, or at least enough memory for context. It always applies somewhere, sometimes farther down the road or for someone I find myself listening to. I’ll get there. ?

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

    2. Patrick Gannon Avatar
      Patrick Gannon

      My dad used to do this and it got worse as his dementia increased.

    3. Jethro Avatar
      Jethro

      Oh my. Annie I do that too… bad news, everyone says I’m getting old. I’m going with your way of thinking. Hidden conversations with God… I like it.

      1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
        Spiritual_Annie

        If age were the issue, I wouldn’t have had it happening since I was a teenager (at least). And, like most “God things,” it has a particular “feel” about it, like my premonitions do. It was just sitting in front of my nose and I didn’t see it for what it was. One of those “duh!” moments, y’know?

        1. Jethro Avatar
          Jethro

          Me too, I lost a bit when I gave in to relieving emotional pains with alcohol. I disconnected myself you might say. I’ve been waking up/reconnecting though, very slowly.

          1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I do understand. I was a problem drinker myself. When I went into therapy, I also joined an open AA meeting. I explained I was about to embark on dealing with my crap and knew I’d have the urge to run inside a bottle, but didn’t want to give myself permission to do so, and asked for their support.

            Of course, many assumed I was alcoholic but in denial until they got to know me. When they started asking me to speak, I was suddenly popular. Not only did I talk about why I drank, but how I walked right up to that line and peered over it, then quit just before I crossed it. I was the one that gave them permission to talk about emotional drinking and their own issues, the one that got away, and the one who’d say out loud that I was taking the whole “higher power” thing on faith.

            I’ve come a long way since then.

            Reconnecting slowly is perfectly OK. Baby steps are way better than standing still.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          2. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            I introduced myself as an alcoholic for several years. Turns out I wasn’t. But I went through a lot of rehab and eventually became a counselor. Plumbing pays better. but I learned a lot about myself.

  11. Sam Avatar
    Sam

    Ah, new day, new opportunities 🙂
    I would guess “Patrick Gannon” has quite a lot of spare time today as well (like nothing else to do).
    Yesterday I pointed him to this new column. He ran as fast as his frankenstein-legs could carry him. And now look, at all the “damage”. If this was a person, counting as one, we are talking some kind of disorder, an obsession. He really felt late for something, to always be the ever-present counterpart, in relentless length and no matter how nasty.
    But what explains it, is this being a team on a job, a task, or a mission (operating on several blogs).
    There you have it, one more piece of evidence in the pile 🙂

    1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
      Spiritual_Annie

      Having him blocked, I’ve made it a point to say a little prayer for Patrick whenever I see “This user is blocked.” (He’s the only person I’ve ever felt a need to block on Disqus.) I was kept pretty darn busy praying yesterday. And chuckling because every time you refer to him as “Frankenstein,” I get a flashback of Gene Wilder in Young Frankenstein screaming, “It’s Franken-steen!”

      1. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        Lol, yes, I very much remember. What a good memory 🙂

        1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
          Spiritual_Annie

          I love Mel Brooks’ movies. Blazing Saddles was our class’s movie my Senior year. (Yes, I’m that old!) Madeline Kahn was hilarious in both, especially when she sang. ?

          Trivia question (bonus if you get both right): What did Madeline Kahn sing in each of those two movies?

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Damn, I even saw a documentary about “Blazing Saddles” not that many months ago, bringing back good memories, but what did she sing… Hmm, I am sure I could google it, but I be fair, and say I don’t remember, grrrr. Wasn’t she a pretty bad singer? 🙂

          2. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            In real life, she’s an incredible singer, but when she played the stage floozie Lilly von Schtupp in Blazing Saddles they had her sing “I’m So Tired” horribly, and with an awful German accent.

            She sang only briefly in Young Frankenstein as the fiancee of Dr. Frankenstein. “Oh, sweet mystery of life, at last I’ve found you!” When she slept with his “creation.” Which Terri Garr also sang later. ?

          3. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I did not really finish Blazing Saddles. Does this make me a pagan, too 🙂 I thought it was stupid as heck. Anyhoo, I do love Young Frankenstein. That was good, especially the singing 🙂

          4. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I liked it when the horses would kick and whinny at the mere mention of the housekeeper’s name (which I can’t recall at the mo’).

            Aww, man! The ending of Blazing Saddles was funny as heck. You missed the best part. Yeah, it’s slapstick humor, but I was 17.

            I won’t even get into how many times I saw The Rocky Horror Picture Show, or who I went dressed as. ?

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          5. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            oh god. Rocky Horror. I forgot about that one. Went to the really cool theater always. Chandeliers and marble, mirrors everywhere, balcony a renovated thing. The cool artsy picture shows. All the literarys there. How about Brother Where art thou? That was funny as heck. One I saw when I was in high school at the cool theater was the hobbit, but also Firestarter. Anybody see that one? I actually left that one before it began. Now I would sit right through it, just to see the ending. Opening scene was a bit much at that time, even for my high school bo. Of course, he always hunted Arrowheads and me following him in dirt field. We saw hobbit, his favorite. I was too good for that, to be really truthful. I was what my husband always called me “Hoity Toity.” You’re such a hoity toity. He always called me “Dory,” too, which means boat, not dingy but not cruiseship either, which is my natural bend 🙂 My nickname for him? Mo. Why? Because of his haircut. poor guy. I was mean a little. Who calls anybody mo? But, he liked it then. I also called him my “hubcap” and my “rock.” What a rock, rock of gibralter never. Anyhoo, he is sweet to me now. go figure 🙂

          6. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            We had The Rocky Horror Picture Show at an older but updated theater, until Walgreens bought the building and converted it. Then it moved to the oldest theater in town, with chandeliers and red velvet and gold accents. Faithfully and lovingly restored, it became an historical landmark. They showed the movie faithfully every Saturday at midnight for years, but then it went to once a month. I wasn’t in town for the final showing, but Mama sent me all the press clippings. It was a freebie, and they hooked up speakers in the lobby and outside, guessing the crowd would be huge. It was. Dancing in the streets!

            O Brother, Where Art Thou is a gas! Never saw Firestarter, but read all of Tolkein’s “middle earth” books. Was afraid the movie wouldn’t do it justice. Don’t like it when a really good book gets poorly translated into a film. Then all I can focus on is what’s left out or new characters consolidating several from the book. An eidetic memory can ruin a movie made from a book I’ve read.

            One of my all-time faves is The Shawshank Redemption. I think that’s one of the first movies I loved Morgan Freeman in.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          7. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Wow an eidetic memory. I had to look that one up. It is apparently a rare phenomenon, yet not as rare as what I witness with my memory that actualizes on literal rocks. I know from being in literature that the imagination is much grander than the real movie version. We usually add our own personal talent of creative bends to the mix when we read a grand book. I agree. My readings of great works of art are always better than a hollywood version.

            I have something where I can visualize a scene like a movie but then it actualizes as scrolls of numbers and letters, greek and hebrew, for example on a rock that I find, like literal numbers and letters. It’s kind of freaky to witness in physical life. Don’t know but I am sure it is rare and inexexplicable, just as a photographic memory is rare.

            Loved the Shawshank and Morgan Freeman. I met his double at a goodwill looking at a painting. Wow

            take care,

            M

          8. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            There are both blessings and curses to having an eidetic memory, which isn’t as strong as it used to be. It was great in school, especially after I learned to color-code my class notes. I could flip through my notebooks in my mind while taking tests. But, like most kids I just wanted to be normal, so I tried to hide it. I’d take a few notes in class, then at home I’d write out detailed diagrams and notes in my “real” notebooks. It was the lecture classes that I had to really pay attention in and hope they’d at least write major points on the board.

            Wow, seeing numbers and letters—I haven’t heard of that. It must be kinda freaky. Do you look up their meanings, or do you recognize them when you see them? I don’t know Greek or Hebrew except just a few characters. I studied numerology for a bit, but found it wasn’t all that accurate when applied personally, like astrology. Runes, on the other hand, were spot on for me. But that’s more an exchange of energy. More like tarot cards.

            Hope you’re having a wonder-filled flight today!

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          9. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            It is freaky. I am a bit of an alchemist. I have made a few rocks by hand. ONce from a plastic bead no less. I am not lying either. My favorite rock I made is from two cigarette butts, no less. I made two of those. Some of the letters are recognizably significant, like my birdthday on a rock, my loved one’s birthday on a rock or 333 222 444 555 I have seen all kinds of combinations such as these. LOts of things happen when we begin to se greek and hebrew scrolled on rocks that I create by tossing them. Did this a lot still carry my cigarette rocks to this day 🙂 Have a good night 😉 weird but wonderful is what I call it 😉

          10. Gross Prophet Avatar
            Gross Prophet

            ‘…they’re always coming, und going, und going, und coming…and always too soon.’

            First time I saw Blazing Saddles, I was 17, had lived a sheltered life — and I don’t think I stopped laughing through the whole movie.

            ‘Anybody need more beans?’

          11. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            LOL… There are SO many good one-liners and scenes that still crack me up.

            “Candy Gram for Mongo! Candy Gram for Mongo!”

            “Yeah, but I shoot with this one…”

            The toll gate in the middle of nowhere…

            “Are we awake?” “I’m not sure. Are we… black?”

            How everyone in town has the last name of Johnson… including Howard, the Innkeeper…

            Crashing through the tribute to Hollywood musicals, with a young Dom DeLuise…

            Yeah, it was all silly, but as a teen, it was a riot.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

    2. babybleustardust Avatar
      babybleustardust

      Alright, we are coming close to defining Patrick–a machine, a pagan machine. He’s a robot 🙂 which explains his profession IT oh dear God. I am sure he is smiling. He is programmed that way. (grin)

      1. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        He has a machine like capacity, 4000 words each day, not rambling, from tending two blogs not his own. And have a life too? Whew 🙂

        1. babybleustardust Avatar
          babybleustardust

          two blogs. damn I’ve got three plus facebook and a wingmaking room for study. That makes five. No wonder he’s got me beat with 4,000 words wow I better catch up. Those are angel numbers. I’m going for 4444 just to win. 🙂

    3. Patrick Gannon Avatar
      Patrick Gannon

      Hmm. What makes more sense? Engaging in spirited philosophical debate or counting how many words another participant types?

      I probably typed twice that in business emails, and aside from an occasional post based on an ongoing feud with a priest who is upset that he’s having no luck pulling me back into the Church, there’s little going on there.

      Interesting info though. Yes, I was happy to hear of the new column. Somebody has to play the role of the loyal opposition. I’m happy to be of service.

      1. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        “Hmm. What makes more sense? Engaging in spirited philosophical debate or counting how many words another participant types?”

        Oh, I can do both. Don’t worry about it 🙂

        “I probably typed twice that in business emails, and aside from an occasional post based on an ongoing feud with a priest who is upset that he’s having no luck pulling me back into the Church, there’s little going on there.
        Interesting info though. Yes, I was happy to hear of the new column. Somebody has to play the role of the loyal opposition. I’m happy to be of service.”

        Hmm. Is this what you meant by spirited philosophical debate? Damn, and I just told babybleustardust that you didn’t ramble. My bad 🙂

        1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
          Patrick Gannon

          You told her I don’t ramble? Well, that was a mistake! I’ve never claimed that I don’t ramble! I’m reminded of it frequently. Don’t get me started!

          Hey, we’re having a spirited philosophical debate – the same one we always have here. You believe something for which you have absolutely no compelling, objective evidence, yet claiming it to be true, and I’m insisting that you support your claim with said evidence. Just as in a discussion about Neale’s god, we have beliefs vs. evidence, with beliefs, as always, coming up short.

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “I’m reminded of it frequently. Don’t get me started!”

            I rather kill myself. Honestly 🙂

      2. babybleustardust Avatar
        babybleustardust

        poor priest. Did you have a patron saint. Did you get baptized? I was and my saint was Luke, because I am wierd like that. I love Luke and Song of Solomon. Wow what a book. I was reading this today. Poetry. Wow it is pure poetry. Gazelles and frankensence and myrrh heck. How do you spell that. Okay. I am working my way through the bible and wingmaker materials simultaneously. Talk about quantum leap of word. Wow It’s fun. So Song of Solomon is a marriage of what a young man who refers to a young woman as treasure, a gazelle, but the word “treasure’ has biblical meaning of the word sister. Why is the biblical term for “treasure” sister? Wowwee that monad is sure spinning cycle after cycle looking not for a God particle but a lost Goddess particle. No wonder he’s messed up. He needs his True Mind. A sister, a brother, a wife, husband, mother, father God and Goddess. Which is he/she/it as a seed. what is the one seed that sprouted forth all life. Is it gendered at all? How it can it be life if it is androgyny. Alright, talk to you later. See if you can ramble as grand as me. I’ve got the crown that’ll spin you upside down and inside out and all around again and again on that account 😉

        1. Jethro Avatar
          Jethro

          “See if you can ramble as grand as me. I’ve got the crown that’ll spin you upside down and inside out and all around again and again on that account” – (babybleustardust) Patrick feels I should do this as to not commit plagiarism.

          You are most certainly the queen the a king couldn’t touch in this area. Keep up the awesome work!!

          1. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Thanks for the crown. My smile is not upside down 🙂 Now, I can get serious but so far we are trying to hold a conversation with God and Patrick doesn’t believe and he wants to tango with our converso. I am needing a taco myself. or mexican cafe au lait, okay 🙂

          2. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            my feelings are hurt. plagiarize all you want. So far, nothing but nothing is new under the sun but I am here to prove that theory wrong, el capaso el speako no mexicano I guess I better start learning how to speak Spanish or Mexican Indian. I can’t wait to ride horse down the Mayan Cavern whew wee

  12. Jethro Avatar
    Jethro

    Patrick has made the news as an imposter poster. The master debater, the arguer of arguers. The aggravation of the aggravated. A pain in the butt.

    Each and everyone of us has disagreed with Someone at sometime or another. we call another wrong or try to point out our personal thoughts, maybe just tweak the thoughts of another…a little. We as humans don’t like to believe we are wrong about something, so when someone calls us wrong or doesn’t agree, we defend ourselves to the fullest extent. We are not wrong because anybody says so, in turn, Patrick is not wrong just because somebody says so. He disagrees with some and some disagree back and vice versa.

    I’m not defending Patrick, or several Patricks, I’m pointing out a new way of thought for those who are upset by him, a new perspective. He’s a human being, even if he is several humans, it’s still a human typing. There is nothing you can do to change that. What any of us can do is change our own thoughts about him or anyone we choose to be angry with.

    One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself (positive or directive form).
    One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated (negative or prohibitive form).
    What you wish upon others, you wish upon yourself (empathic or responsive form).
    The Golden Rule differs from the maxim of reciprocity captured in do ut des—”I give so that you will give in return”—and is rather a unilateral moral commitment to the well-being of the other without the expectation of anything in return.
    The concept occurs in some form in nearly every religion and ethical tradition. It can also be explained from the perspectives of psychology, philosophy, sociology, human evolution, and economics. Psychologically, it involves a person empathizing with others. Philosophically, it involves a person perceiving their neighbor also as “I” or “self”. Sociologically, ‘love your neighbor as yourself’ is applicable between individuals, between groups, and also between individuals and groups. In evolution, “reciprocal altruism”, is seen as a distinctive advance in the capacity of human groups to survive and reproduce, as their exceptional brains demanded exceptionally long child-hoods and on-going provision and protection even beyond that of the immediate family. In economics, Richard Swift, referring to ideas from David Graeber, suggests that “without some kind of reciprocity society would no longer be able to exist.”

    How much time will we spend calling someone wrong while expecting that nobody will call us wrong? A conversation with God or did I just teach myself yet another lesson in humility?

    1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
      Spiritual_Annie

      Jethro,

      I get where you’re coming from. I really do. I’m even into turning the other cheek and giving people the clothes off my back and loving my enemies, because it just feels right to me because All is One.

      However (I’m sure you saw that coming), after one turns the other cheek again and again, one has the right to love someone unconditionally—from a distance. One has the right to not be a doormat or an emotional punching bag. I had to learn that because I thought I was supposed to let anyone treat me any way they liked. I now know better.

      I feel I had two choices: block Patrick so he couldn’t pull me back in yet again (he knows what buttons to push, and does so intentionally), or leave. I decided I will not be driven from this site by a materialistic science zealot.

      This is one of the places I come to share myself fully and openly with many here that I consider to be more than mere acquaintances, whether or not we agree, which we sometimes don’t. But I don’t get called “wrong” by them, nor do I feel a need to say I’m “right.” There need be no winners or losers, no one who’s right or wrong, no one attacking or being attacked.

      We are all unique individuations of Divinity, so we have unique relationships with it—even the choice not to. But differences don’t have to mean divisions, and disagreements don’t have to become about who’s “wrong.” We’re all “right,” because what we’re expressing is right for us, personally.

      I’ve been speaking my own truth about the subject at hand. It may be no one else’s truth, and that’s OK. But it is my truth.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      1. Jethro Avatar
        Jethro

        Annie, I’m not speaking to any individuals. I had a thought of my own and shared it. I went on a tangent with A True Friend and learned something about myself in the process. There is not a right way or a wrong way unless we decide to change ourselves because that’s what we see in ourselves. I make a choice to have a conversation with someone everytime I post to someone or respond. It’s my choice to invite further comment. I still have the choice to ignore everything beyond that. In Patricks shoes, Ignore what is said or don’t. He may continue to defend himself for entertainment or not. when He gets bored he will leave it alone.

        You are doing that which you must, as is Sam, as is Patrick… It’s ok. Could I have thought for myself my thoughts without this interaction? We have been blessed with an argument.

        1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
          Patrick Gannon

          I wonder what Neale thinks about you all deciding to talk about me, instead of his ideas….

          You know, for a change – and with the exception of the god woo – his post on meditation and mindfulness very good, very useful, and supported by a lot of evidence. It’s “real” enough that the Marines, Navy Seals and some top end corporations are instituting these techniques to great advantage.

          Let’s see…. Sam will think this was written by PatProgram ver. 3.2a

          1. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            It kind of matters what other people think even if we say it doesn’t. I would imagine he’s thinking the same thing as he was thinking when people got off on a tangent about me changing my name. Your presentations are going to tic somebody off now and then, I’m sure you understand that. If you’re going to saddle the horse, may as well ride it.

          2. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            And I do!

          3. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Can’t argue that. I use to love the rodeo, I think I just outgrew it…. The real rodeo.

          4. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Sadist…rodeos are for sadists!
            Not ok!!!!!!!!?

          5. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Yeah, rodeos seem quite useless, don’t forget the masochists, full of those too.

          6. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            kiwi, what is wrong with a rodeo. I wouldn’t mind being in one 😉

          7. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Me too, but its based on causing the suffering of animals, and thats never ok for entertainment.

          8. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            But damn, cowboys are hot.

          9. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            oh. I don’t kick ’em. I hug ’em. That horse that got mad and bucked me onto a tractor was ridden bareback all day. We went by the river. We had fun. He was just cranky but he loves me. He is not suffering just because I made him dance a little. My stepdad had to chase him down because he took off down ninevah all the way home. Wow what a speedy horse. Twin tornadoes about blew him away. My stepdad. Whew Have a good one.

          10. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            I meant organised rodeos.
            When I had a rib xray a few years ago the radiologist asked what happened for so many old cracked ribs in my back, all healed but obvious.
            Ooops..got thrown from a horse onto my back on a concrete road as a teenager. Badly winded and in pain for weeks, but to me not bad enough to mention it to Mum, she’d make me see a doctor and be a drama queen.
            I can just remember being in bed as much as possible with electric blanket on and a sheepskin rug in my bed as I couldnt get comfortable, for weeks.
            Probably shoulda told Mum, that was one heck of a fall.
            Time before that on a horse i didnt see a tree branch, got one hell of a knock, cut and fall.
            She doesnt know about a disclocated knee or many of my childhood war wounds, but I did tell her when a car knocked me off my bike. I kind of had to when a day later I realised the graze on my knee was actually a 2cm deep gaping hole, and about 5cm round. She nearly fainted!
            I had some great childhood war wounds, still do.
            Xx

          11. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I have adventurous wounds, too. The worst looking one is down the back of my right calf. I was jumping over the chain link fence in our yard when my sneaker slipped. Freaked out Mama, and that was hard to do! I forget how many stitches. Bled like crazy, though. Mama had to get me to leave it alone on the way to the emergency room because it was the first deep wound I could see, and I was fascinated. She wasn’t. Drove like a bat out of hell when she usually drove like an old lady.

            I hate getting x-rays, or CT’s, or MRI’s, or actually any test. Find out nearly half the time bones were broken or I had scars that led to some extremely awkward conversations with doctors. I mean, what do you say when the doc walks in and asks when your nose was broken? “Uh, gee, doc… Must’ve been when I was seven and my father beat me half to death.” (And that wasn’t the most awkward one.)

            I did fracture my wrist getting thrown off a horse. Never ride double with a single saddle. If you do, make sure you’re the one in front. Now, that one Mama had fun with. I’d been vacationing with family friends we’d known for years. I didn’t think it was that bad, and we’d iced it and put an ace bandage on it. My friend’s mom kept apologizing, and I told Mama that. She wanted x-rays just to be sure, and darned if I didn’t have a hairline fracture. Put me in a full forearm cast. When we got home, Mama said I should go visit my friend, and ask her mom for their lawyer’s and insurance info as a gag. Talk about freaking out! She got on the phone immediately, and Mama let her in on the joke. They laughed about it for years. That’s my Mama. Rather laugh than cry.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          12. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Ouch….the cut. I bet your friend was peeing herself, hilarious.
            Yip, wounds are fascinatingm the human body is. Mmmmmm,,,, now where did i hide that body I play autopsies on?

          13. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I have a few war scars, too many to mention. Once I was riding my bike in the middle of the high way, just a little girl on my blue looked like dorothy’s bike or was that witch. No dorothy has a bike with a basket and carried her dog. That’s what I did. I carried my dog who I named Puddles. She was solid black. Poor girl. Dumb big dog got her pregnant. Had to have a funeral for her. Died in labor. Lucky I didn’t get run over because my handle bars broke while I was in the middle riding the yellow line not holding on to any bars. The dog wasn’t in the basket then. But look no hands is what I did. You know. Had to be cool or it wasn’t me.

            My nearby became a real hit last year with a car, but prior to that I had a few close calls with cars. Once I was circling my grandma’s driveway and suddenly me? I lost control or the wheel did. At any rate, I fell and hoity toity here was so humiliated that I lied on the asphalt driveway. The bike was on me and I couldn’t believe I fell, so I sat there, began looking at clouds and trees. Suddenly a stranger pulled up. “Are you okay?” i scared him half to death. After that, I didn’t play drama in my real life ever. I was listening to the radio then to “The Night Chicago died. na na na na na brother what a fight it really was. Brother what a night it really was” and “Band on the run.” Also, “Good bye Michelle it’s hard to die. We had joy. We had fun. We had seasons in the sun. Good bye my love it’s hard to die.” Anyhoo, let’s see what else.

            Oh yea. a couple of times with a knife. I am that who loves watermelon. Okay I am a southerner. Nothing like a cold watermelon. Here I am in charge slicing the watermelon for everyone. What am I? four? with a big butcher knife sitting on grandpa’s grill. Oh god. Elvis’ house next door. Literally, I mean and suddenly the blade went into my thumb. Under my thumb da da da anyhoo, several stiches. That’s all. Oh yea. Same house. Sun was shining but the radio on in my hands I am singing and dancing and the dj said “There is a tornado coming in your area. Please seek shelter immediately,” and I began to alert the entire neighborhood. Suddenly, I am tripped by the long hall way and my grandma again rushing me to the er frantic just a few stiches in my chin chinny chin chin. Next up was let’s see. I am 25. Just broken up with tim. Back at grandma’s living like batchelorettes except for my uncle, who we babied. I am a good cook and made a homeade mushroom omelette with real butter, my favorite. Collelge still. Dear god. On my way out, i picked up a knife to cut his butter and damn who actually slices butter with a knife aimed at your thumb. Me. okay. 3 stitches is all I needed.

            Too many others to mention and I am here, just here. Have a good one 😉

          14. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Watermelon…the only food I can say I actually like. Yum. Actually, perhaps garlic and cheese grilled on toast, and sushi sometimes, but if Im not craving sushi it makes me heave. Smoked salmon with avocado, red capsicum and cream cheese sushi…white girl sushi!
            You sound like my close friend, she lives across the road from me on our little cul d sac, we moved there at the same time 14 years ago. Shes so accident prone, if theres a patch of mud, she finds it and falls over, her parents call her Becka the Wrecker, shes a walking disaster. Tjeres no way she’d be allowed to cut watermelon, and shes nearly 40.
            Im not accident prone thankfully, but I do wounds in style!! Or else its just pointless. Did break my ankle about 5 years ago, I was so impressed, my bruise was 18x12cm, hugely swollen, I was texting photos to friends and measuring it, it was impressive. Im still incerdibly proud. Opened the garage door and a heavy decking timber go cart fell on me. I was so impressed and fascinated I didnt go to the Dr or theyd cover my cool bruise with a cast, then a loser moonboot so I just wore UGG boots every. Went to the Dr after two weeks when it still looked like a swollen football, but it was healing well, crack right up my bone. Im not wearing a lamearse moonboot for anyone, hot pink light cast maybe, but moonboots? Sooooooo uncool!!
            The hilarious thing was for months my entire foot was purple and looked bruised, just gravity so all the bruise blood just pools in your foot. Dr told me he would prescribe hirodoid cream to make blood reabsorb, I freaked out, I thought he said hemmoroid cream so had to tell everyone what he said. What a dork!!
            Xx

          15. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I am not really accident prone per se 🙂 I do stupid stuff like skating with a makeshift roller skate down a literal 2×4. Yeah. It looked like fun and yet 9 cervical spinal x rays later taught me quantum jump is easier. That and falling two years in a row on new years’ eve while skating at the exact same location. Decided to give up skating except in an alternate reality.where I am queen ice skater. It looks like so much fun, so graceful. Actually, dad’s nickname for me was always “grace.” He said my feet were bigger than my body when I was little and he thought I was going to be tall like him and yet they’re a size 7 and I am nothing like that never again do I give a rip. I like being 5’3 always except for my 5’2 1/2 side. Actually, I think it’s growing or evening out because I refuse to wear clunky tennis shoes though PT people keep getting on me “Those are not working. You need to wear shoes that are practical.” Not me. No. I am wearing black leather lace up gladiators always. They called these “Jesus’ shoes” and they’re cool not that myne grey minnetonkas and brown ones aren’t practical. The grey ones are like UGGs, comfortable but more practical looking. My grandma wouldn’t be caught dead in them or in my artsy birkenstocks. Whew I prefer lace ups now and leather tight with a heel. Won’t be caught dead in practical, just not me. They finally got over my tea cup here which is pure platinum and porcelain, handed down by my grandma Anyhoo, where were we. Damn never heard of that hemorroid cream stuff. What the heck is it. I once had a smiley bruise. It was just 2×2 cm, went away. LIterally it smiled. And, that’s about it for war scar. Why dad called me grace is well, it’s better than what he called my half brother which is retard. Dad. He feels guilty but truthfully he loved me. He calls me knucklehead and hard head. Why? because I am stubborn like him. Oh well. I digress too much. I am . .let’s see. Nothing’s fallen on me yet, save for that humungous car. I am a living miracle man. I can’t complain about war scars. I am getting ready to renovate New Mexico. They even have a miss rodeo show every year. It’s called New Mexico Rodeo show pagent. I’m too old but alternate realities man are here for me to live. The Hopi have to welcome the new kachina, the blue star is on the way and I am gonna ride a horse through that territory. I can’t wait. Alright, I’m drinking coffee gotta go. No pastries good here so it just isn’t good unless it’s homemade. I loved my own homeade cinnamon buns and chocolate eclairs mmmm bye Xx

          16. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I have a few war scars, too many to mention. Once I was riding my bike in the middle of the high way, just a little girl on my blue looked like dorothy’s bike. dorothy has a bike with a basket and carried her dog toto. That’s what I did. I carried my dog who I named Puddles all around. She was solid black. Poor girl. Dumb big dog got her pregnant. Had to have a funeral for her. Died in labor. Lucky I didn’t get run over but puddles wasn’t in the basket then. my handle bars broke while I was in the middle of the road riding the yellow line not holding on to any bars, just flying in the wind. look no hands is what I did. You know. Had to be cool or it wasn’t me. suddenly i am lying in the middle of the road with 5 oclock traffic. no scars but that was that.

            My nearby became a real hit last year with a real car hitting my entire right body. Prior to this I had a few close calls with cars. Once I was circling my grandma’s driveway and suddenly me? I lost control as i was speeding around the bend, barely missed a car parked of course At any rate, I fell and hoity toity here was so humiliated that I lied on the asphalt driveway in disbelief that i could fall ever. I thought I could fly on wheels. The bike was on me and I couldn’t believe I fell, so I sat there, began looking at clouds and trees. Suddenly a stranger pulled up. “Are you okay?” i scared him half to death. He thought I was dead or something. After that, my aunt drove up and over a loading dock. Couldn’t drive with her. Stupid negel.

            Other than that, I had a few belly flops and head torn apart when I head locked with the boys playing football 🙂 at that time I was listening to “The Night Chicago died. na na na na na brother what a fight it really was. Brother what a night it really was” and “Band on the run.” “Good bye Michelle it’s hard to die. We had joy. We had fun. We had seasons in the sun. Good bye my love it’s hard to die.” I still love these songs. Billy don’t be a hero. Don’t be a fool with your life. blah blah blah Anyhoo, let’s see what else.

            Oh yea. a couple of times with a knife. I am that who loves watermelon. Okay I am a southerner. Nothing like a cold watermelon. Here I am in charge slicing the watermelon for everyone. kids only of course. What am I? four? with a big butcher knife sitting on grandpa’s built in brick grill. Oh god. Elvis’ house next door. Literally, I mean and suddenly the blade went into my thumb. Under my thumb da da da anyhoo, several stiches. That’s all. Oh yea. Same house. Sun was shining but the radio on in my hands I am singing and dancing and the dj says, “There is a tornado coming in your area. Please seek shelter immediately,” and I began to alert the entire household and neighborhood, screaming in fear—TORNADO is COMING!!! EVERYBODY TORNADO IS COMING!!!” Hey kansas ain’t seen nothing like a good ol’ southern twin tornado. Suddenly, I am tripped by the long hall way just skirting the bend and my grandma again rushing me to the er frantic out of her mind but just a few stiches in my chin chin chinny chin chin. It went away thank god. It was actually under the chin. No one could see it. Nothing like my sister who well, we were racing in the same house back and forth to the brick fireplace and the couch. She fell and got a big cut on her forehead, started passing out. Thank God for grandma who rushed her to the hospital. It’s a wonder my grandma survived. Of course, she had a maid–Annie. Good ol’ Annie. She could make the spiciest spagetti in Memphis. Nothing like it ever. Mmmm Next up was let’s see. I am 25. Just broken up with tim. Back at grandma’s living like batchelorettes except for my uncle, who we babied. I am a good cook and made a homeade mushroom omelette with real butter, my favorite. College still. Dear god. On my way out, i picked up a knife to cut his butter and damn who actually slices butter with a knife aimed at your thumb. Me. okay. 3 stitches is all I needed.

            Too many others to mention and I am here, just here. war scars and all and no visible scars. Have a good one 😉

          17. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            ride ’em cowboy. Don’t let ’em throw you down. You’re the fastest cowboy in town 🙂

          18. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            That horse bucked lol I once rode one and it really bucked. Of course, I had no saddle. It was me bareback and he was dancing and praying, literally. I was teaching him to pray with his front paws and he bucked the frig out of me onto a tractor and flew on high. Anyhoo, it matters. What idea, Patrick, should we talk about that you won’t buck :0) I’m just going to ride you bareback and teach you to dance and pray 🙂 you better not buck me or I don’t know. Can a pagan dance 🙂

          19. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Pull high on the rains, settles ’em right down… Most of the time.

          20. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I’ll remember that next time I’m on a riding trail. I might be on one soon. I am travelling to New Mexico soon. Greg Braden is taking a tour of a canyon I just have to be at in October Wow Thanks for the tip 🙂

          21. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Oh no, you are grumpy joe, all right 🙂

          22. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Hey Pagan, Patrick 🙂 Please define “God woo” or is it lower case “god woo”? How do you woo a God or a god anyhoo? What about the Marines and Navy Seals. I’m a dolphin, man, and I would ride a unicorn but I prefer horses colorful, gold and silver with a touch of blue. Don’t know about the horn in the middle. I like plain horse that flys. I’m learning to fly by Tom Petty yeah yeah but I got wings and coming down is the hardest thing. So don’t get down, Patrick. Don’t let them steal your crown. Youre the crown of the Pagans. There you go 🙂 I am kidding. Are you happy with your crown today 🙂 You’re irreligious so you should be. Hi have a grand day anyhoo 🙂

          23. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            woo:
            wo͞o
            verb: woo; 3rd person present: woos; past tense: wooed; past participle: wooed; gerund or present participle: wooing

            try to gain the love of (someone, typically a woman), especially with a view to marriage.
            “he wooed her with quotes from Shakespeare”

            synonyms: romantically pursue, pursue, chase (after); More
            dated: court, pay court to, romance, seek the hand of, set one’s cap for/at, make love to
            “Richard wooed Joan all through their college years”

            seek the favor, support, or custom of.
            “pop stars are being wooed by film companies eager to sign them up”

            synonyms: seek, pursue, curry favor with, try to win, try to attract, try to cultivate
            “the party wooed voters with promises”
            (Google)
            _____________
            Well, lookee there! All along, he’s been trying to gain God’s love!

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          24. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            here is my definition to shakespeare. I am updoing shakespeare, literally. To be or not to be his idea of beauty is always in question. actually he has a poem that is so funny and always a favorite where he woos something not like the sun.

            Sonnet 130.

            “My mistress’ eyes are nothing like the sun
            coral is far more red than her lips red;
            if snow be white, why then her breasts are dun
            If hairs be wires, why then black wires grow on her head;
            I have seen roses damasked, red and white
            But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
            And in some perfumes is there more delight
            Than in the breath from my mistress reeks.
            I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
            that music hath a far more pleasing sound
            I grant I never saw a goddess go
            My mistress when she walks treads on the ground
            And yet by heaven I think my love as rare
            As any she belied with false compare.”

            by William Shakespeare

            Did I quote that right, Patrick? I don’t have my MLA book handy 🙂

        2. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
          Spiritual_Annie

          Jethro,

          I wasn’t taking it personally, as if you were writing about me or my actions. Not at all. I was merely replying to what you wrote, and my own thoughts and feelings.

          We all make choices about what to share, or not, and what to read, or not, and what to reply to, or not. I love most of the interaction here, and I’ve learned and grown from it.

          Everything’s a blessing, if one chooses to see it that way. ?

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          1. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            I didn’t think you did actually but wanted to make sure didn’t.

            Everything’s a blessing, if one chooses to see it that way…. SO TRUE!!

            I didn’t put quotations or give you credit… sorry. LSHMSFOAIDMT.

          2. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            LSHMSFOAIDMT
            Laughing so hard my sombrero fell of and I dropped my taco…

          3. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            No worries. I don’t need quotations or credit when it’s there in plain view, in the post you’re replying to. I’m guessing from your side of the conversation that you’ve been called out on your (googled) attribution. I understood it.

            Sombrero? Maybe we should start calling you Jethrito. ROFLMAOAPIMP*

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

            *Rolling On Floor Laughing My *** Off, Almost Peed In My Pants

          4. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            *Rolling On Floor Laughing My *** Off, Almost Peed In My Pants… That one belongs to my sister, and she always did pee her pants. My wife came up with another That deserves a giggle. SUISMSATMT = So Upset I Stomped My Sombrero And Threw My Taco.

      2. Patrick Gannon Avatar
        Patrick Gannon

        Two choices – block me or leave. How about a third choice? How about some self control and discipline? If she lets me push her buttons, then is that my fault or her own? CwG would suggest that is her problem, not mine. If it feels better for her to blame me for her own weaknesses, that’s fine. Why does she spend so much time talking about me, even though she’s blocked me? Does anyone else find that odd?

    2. Patrick Gannon Avatar
      Patrick Gannon

      ” A pain in the butt.” LOL. Mission accomplished!

      Jethro, I’ve told you that some of your posts appear to have been written by someone else. This comment is an example of where your post appears in part, to have largely been written by someone else. And it was – you pulled it from Wikipedia, and didn’t put quotes in the right place or acknowledge the correct source. This is why I thought you were someone else, several articles ago. The style and grammar changes to something more polished, and it seemed like it was being written by someone else – and it was. Buddy, to be honest, you need to put quotes around everything you cut/paste and acknowledge the source. You should have put quote marks starting at “One should treat others….” and ending quotes at …able to exist.”” (add a second quote mark). You plagiarized this entire thing without giving proper credit, right? Saying “(googled)” is insufficient. You must give credit to the source, or you are plagiarizing.

      Sam – where are you? It appears that Jethro is also more than one person! He’s also Mr. Wikipedia, and who knows who else! (grin)

      1. Jethro Avatar
        Jethro

        What are you the grammar police. Pain in the butt! It’s only plagiarism if I try to take credit for it, I did not. i’m actually a little bit of everybody. Nothing anatomically grotesque though.

        1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
          Patrick Gannon

          You passed it off as your own. You didn’t give credit to the source. Just saying you googled it, is insufficient. You copied material from another source and did not give proper credit. I could say I googled Neale’s copy of CwG in pdf format on the web, and then cut/paste a whole passage without giving him credit and that would be plagiarism, and he wouldn’t be happy about it.

          Don’t make excuses – just start giving proper credit. Do the right thing.

          1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Would it be proper for me to drop something like this here, without giving attribution to the source? Suppose we’re discussing consciousness and I write this….

            In the five hundred years since the Reformation we’re experiencing another revolution in understanding how our nervous systems interact with our environment thanks to the expanding field of neuroscience. Impatient animals we are, some expect that all questions regarding biology not already answered must not exist, leaving the possibility of a ghost inside the machine wide open. Cognitive science is a relatively young discipline, however, and the progress made with the means at hand is already astounding.

            While the mechanisms of consciousness are not fully understood, one thing researchers agree on is that consciousness is body dependent. No body, no mind, and therefore not even a conception of a soul. It might be, as Daniel Dennett and others suggest, that consciousness is not created by a singular system in the brain or body, but rather is emergent: it arises from a series of small processes joining together in a unique fashion to create a larger phenomenon. This is born out in the numerous neurological diseases humans suffer, in which one link in the chain being thrown off creates its own unique circumstances.

            Whether or not the entire chain will be discovered is unknown. Yet explaining consciousness and feeling consciousness are separate phenomena, just as the way your brain contemplates itself is not a purely rational endeavor but unfolds over time through a series of physical sensations and intuitions.

            Now suppose I pick up the conversation, no quotes around the material above, and continue to discuss the nature of consciousness. Would I be plagiarising the author if I did not claim to have originated the content? You may recall Bruce the author dude – that’s what he did, and he tried to say that since he didn’t claim it as his own (and he stole from a famous astronaut!), that it wasn’t plagiarism. No. That’s unethical. That’s getting caught doing something wrong and trying to make an excuse for it. Is it only plagiarism, if you claim it’s your own? Aren’t you indirectly claiming it as your own through a failure to properly quote and source it? Sorry to be so adamant on this, but people deserve credit for their own work, even a source like Wikipedia.

            In this case, there should be a quote beginning with “In the five hundred…. and a closing quote at …sensations and intuitions.” The source is “Why Do Humans Still Believe in Souls?” Derek Beres, Big Think, May 4, 2017

            Derek’s writing style is not identical to my own, but I think I could have passed it off as my own if I had simply avoided quotes and not mentioned the source. I could have said I (googled) it. Would that have been the right thing to do? I certainly would have felt guilty about it.

            How can we have a useful global conversation if we can’t be honest? I’m direct, probably overly so, but it’s who I am, however, you can count on me not to intentionally lie. Which brings up a joke.

            What’s the difference between a used car salesperson and an IT (Information Tech) salesperson? Answer: The used car salesperson knows when they are lying!

            I walked out of a sales call with a new System Engineer one day after giving my usual spiel to a client, and on the way across the parking lot, he said, “You know it doesn’t really work like that, right?” I was astounded! It turned out I wasn’t too far off, but I had some detail wrong. So I know I can be wrong, and I’ll admit it when I am – but I’m not going to quote other people’s work without acknowledgment, and I would encourage everyone to do the same, and I’ll call you out on it when I see it. Yup – I’m a pain in the butt! Sorry Jethro.

          2. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “How can we have a useful global conversation if we can’t be honest?”

            So tell me, 1) how many people are posting under this name you use “Patrick Gannon”? 2) Or/and how many people are working on what get posted under this name you use? 3) Is anything posted under this name you use,“Patrick Gannon”, the result of software working independently in any degree?

            I will hold anything and everything against you 🙂

          3. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            You tell me. You made the claim. Where’s your evidence?

            You will “hold anything and everything against me”?

            Hmm is there any chance that “Sam” is short for Samantha, or something like that, and that you’re a beautiful, buxom redhead?

          4. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Ok, “Honest Patrick”, I will give you one more chance to answer the questions properly. Or else it will be a never ending story, for why you won’t. And be on top of this blog all the time. So, just be done with it 🙂

          5. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            “So tell me, 1) how many people are posting under this name you use “Patrick Gannon”? 2) Or/and how many people are working on what get posted under this name you use? 3) Is anything posted under this name you use,“Patrick Gannon”, the result of software working independently in any degree?”

            1. One. Me.
            2. One. Me.
            3. No. Unless you refer to the biological software in my brain.

            If you could prove otherwise, you’d have accepted my wager.

            I guess I can assume by your response that you aren’t Samantha the beautiful buxom redhead. Bummer.

          6. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “1. One. Me.
            2. One. Me.
            3. No. Unless you refer to the biological software in my brain.”

            Ok. So noted and on record 🙂

            “I guess I can assume by your response that you aren’t Samantha the beautiful buxom redhead. Bummer.”

            Now Patrick, you can way better than this. Get some sleep 🙂

          7. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Sam has blonde hair, dummy, and so do I thanks to dye :0)

          8. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Mines red. But Im not Sam.

          9. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            Mine’s purple, believe it or not. Actually, dark brown with deep purple undertones and violet highlights. Did it on a dare from Christie and liked it. She likes it, too. Told me so, from the Everywhereness.

          10. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Cool. Dares are good, forced confidence. Keep it purple.
            Mines been dyed reddy for probably 25 years. I think naturally its boring brown now or a bit gingery, was a sandy blond kid though and two kids are still blond.
            Actually, correction, probably getting grey now. I wont look.

          11. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I love purple and turquoise. I might blue before noon tomorrow. when I put this latest dye on it turned from ginger to blonde in a few minutes. no telling what it might be tomorrow when I sit in the sunlight 🙂

          12. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            red’s oool. I used to put henna on myne and I liked it but as a kid I was blonde blonde so I sit in the sun with lemon, real lemon. It makes it blonde 🙂

          13. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Almost right. This golden shine thing, it’s my halo 🙂

          14. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            angels always angle a shiny halo near myne 🙂 that’s why my hair turns golden in the sun. the dye i use on my hair is organic no chemicals or peroxide and is always all natural. shine away angel halo 🙂

          15. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Marko has the sandy blondy gingery hair, he had a pic up.

          16. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I know. Marko is gingery. Actually mine is more of a gingery caramely strawberry mix, a one of a kind, kind of like beyonce but the sun makes it lighter naturally. Last summer it was blonde blonde because I sat outside in the sun a lot 🙂

          17. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Patrick I expect you to be a pain in the butt. Your only a pain in mine if I allow it and in return. You have stated your desire to challenge and I accept that… I have fun with that.
            I get what your saying and You are correct, to a point. I didn’t give good source information but I did not pass it off as my own, I did not sign my name, fake or otherwise to it and had anybody given me praise or otherwise I would have stated it wasn’t mine.
            A certain part of my job is sales, but I don’t call it that because I’m not pushing anything, I give options for reasons of cost, and I’m honest about the benefits of each or the lack of. I quit a job that paid more than I like to think about because they wanted me to lie.

          18. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            I know you didn’t intentionally set out to steal someone else’s content, and I understand how you believe you didn’t. I know you meant no harm and that you had no intention to defraud. That wasn’t the point.

            Consider a couple things – 1) I suspect Neale would lean towards my side in this discussion. He was caught plagiarizing a poem or short story or something years ago, and I’m sure he understands how important it is to properly source your content if it’s not your own. He gave all the same excuses. He didn’t mean it, it wasn’t intentional, he couldn’t remember where he first heard it, etc. etc. He learned a lesson that I bet he never forgot. You aren’t a world class author (that I know of) so that may not be so critical to you, but it is part of 2) your reputation. Several people have commented on your pearls of wisdom here. I have not, and am not interested in fact-checking those pearls, but there’s a question now… were they all truly yours? Surely so, but you’ve created doubt (with my help in pointing it out, of course). This is another reason to keep it squeaky clean and do it right. It’s good for you.

            You mentioned sales – my profession. All we have is our reputation. We have to maintain it if we are to be successful in the long term.

          19. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            I’m aware of Neale’ misquote. I forgive him.

            Plagiarism is very much an issue as a substance abuse counselor. (or any profession relying on lectures). Especially when just getting started. If your going to memorize quotes and subjects, you better memorize the credits. I doubt very many things I have to say have never been said. I’ll have Annie check it out, she says she’s developed a list, then I’ll get back to you.

            “”I know you didn’t intentionally set out to steal someone else’s content, and I understand how you believe you didn’t. I know you meant no harm and that you had no intention to defraud.”” I know you know that and your being a pain in the butt (GRIN) I’ve been grinning about it most of the time. I believe you know I got the message the first time you wrote it. If it is found that I cannot be trusted by anyone then I will gladly click out of here. Feel free to check any of my statements against Google or a plagiarism finder. I’m giving information quite often and I seriously doubt Jethro will ever be convicted in a court of law as I’m not gaining any popularity or making money from my conversations hear. Now if anyone is going to use my words say in a book. Check it out, I may be untrustworthy!

            Aside from all that.. I never intend to commit plagiarism. I should probably learn how to spell it right first before I do it, spell correct has caught me every time on that one.

          20. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            Makin’ a list, checkin’ it twice, gonna find out who’s naughty or nice…

            Maybe I shouldn’t use that. I haven’t googled it for proper attribution. ?

            And you’d better not click outta here again. I’ll have to come find your butt to kick you in it!

          21. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            With regard to copying Wikipedia content:

            “To re-distribute a text page in any form, provide credit to the authors either by including a) a hyperlink (where possible) or URL to the page or pages you are re-using, b) a hyperlink (where possible) or URL to an alternative, stable online copy which is freely accessible, which conforms with the license, and which provides credit to the authors in a manner equivalent to the credit given on this website, or c) a list of all authors. (Any list of authors may be filtered to exclude very small or irrelevant contributions.) This applies to text developed by the Wikipedia community. Text from external sources may attach additional attribution requirements to the work, which should be indicated on an article’s face or on its talk page. For example, a page may have a banner or other notation indicating that some or all of its content was originally published somewhere else. Where such notations are visible in the page itself, they should generally be preserved by re-users.”

            Source: Wikipedia: Reusing Wikipedia content

          22. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            My God you’re boring.
            Are you actually like this in real life?

          23. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Yeah, so boring that people feel compelled to respond to me. I don’t understand it either.

          24. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Wow. Not really responding, and definately not combelled, just reading and chatting, bypassing the boring bits! Just pointing out an observation.
            Haha.
            But surely you cant be this boring in real life, with boring info?. Not humanly possible. Rhetorical.
            K

          25. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            So boring that it gets interesting how it is humanly possible 🙂

          26. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Cheers

          27. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Wow now that was nuclear, I’m with Kristen, that’s boring.. as I am fighting to not agree with you. Fine, you got me. I’ve got that whole Fred Sanford act going on too. hand over heart, falling stumbling back into my chair. Time to sulk. I’ll be over it by morning.

          28. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            Fred Sanford! Yikes, that’s an oldie but a goodie, for mindless fun. Redd Foxx lived in St. Louis, where I’m from. He was a real pain in the butt, in person. Did you watch Chico and the Man, too? The Jefferson’s? All in the Family?

            My temporary roomie was watching the Beverly Hillbillies on YouTube yesterday. Thought of you. ?

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          29. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Yes, all the above, and Starskie and hutch, Welcome back carter too. Of course, the Beverly hillbillies, The Adams family, the Munsters, and Batman & robin. Get smart, mission impossible, Hogan’s heroes and Gilligan’s island. There was only 12 stations and silence between shows and commercials. TV stations signed off for the night and the color bar was time for bed on the weekends.

            hadn’t thought about that for a long time.
            Love and Blessings Always

          30. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I remember when we got our first color TV, but we were like the last on the block to get one. I saw JFK’s funeral in black-and-white. 12 stations? We had six. And we had to cross the room to change channels. And, always at some point, we’d get out the tin foil for the tops of the rabbit ears.

            You left out F-Troop and McHale’s Navy. And there was the Dick van Dyke show, and Lost in Space, and My Favorite Martian. Red Skelton used to appear on the Ed Sullivan show regularly.

            Yikes, I’m old! When the heck did that happen?!??

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          31. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            damn. We always had three, including the fishing channel at 5 am, which wierdo here up at the crack of dawn always by five am. couldn’t stand to watch fishing too hoity toity to put a hook on a worm, a baby worm no. I don’t squish ’em. I don’t eat ’em. I don’t touch ’em 🙂 so instead of fishing show here I am reading Streetcar Named Desire at 5 am, just to be hoity toity. My grandpa said I looked like mae west of all things but he knew I was big lips and well anyhoo smart. I impressed him one morning. Iva that girl is something. She is smart. Look at her at ten reading Tennesee Williams. She’s going to be something. He made red eye gravy, country ham and coffee mmmmm I love my grandpa. What a guy. Died at 52. Taught me how to blow my nose just before he died while taking me sledding Whew Can’t take the country out of the millionaire 🙂 Rip Grandpa I am with you always hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

          32. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I went to college in Iowa. One of the first things on the morning news was the Hog Report rather than the stock exchange.

          33. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            lol if there’s one thing more boring than sitting all day with a fishing pole it’s watching someone fish. Actually, I kind of like fishing and just meditating but then what to do with the fish? Never could I eat it if I look at its eye so I throw it back, injured. It’s a crap shoot man. I like eating salmon but not fishing so much.

          34. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            You could always just skip putting bait on the hook, and not move it around much. Me, I like catching them, but gotta have somebody else do the gory stuff. But I’ll cook them once they’re cleaned.

            I never have understood catch-and-release. Why give the poor fish an injury if you’re gonna throw it right back in the water?

            At the last job I had, a bunch of the guys were into hunting and fishing. Every year there was an (unofficial—I worked for the gov’t) fish fry, and also an (unofficial) venison BBQ. Some of the guys even made their own sausage. Being German, sausage is a major food group. ?

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          35. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I am not a catch and release now. That was old life. I don’t try to catch them. I am more into communing in nature than capturing and releasing it. I don’t want to capture nature at all. I know. It’s really not about the worm, though when younger my boyfriend avid fisherman Canadian bound always put the worm on for me. I tended to sit in the canoe and get the thing caught in a tree hanging over our heads lol My ex is german. He loved sausage. I personally am mediteranean food lover and greek salad is more me. I love fishing but not really. It isn’t so much that but looking at them and then stabbing them with a hook is a turn off and then throwing them in a bucket, looking at them. Dear God. I can’t look at their eyes.. I once told a chef “I can’t eat tuna because I don’t want to eat a thing with eyes.” More and more I am not wanting meat these days.

            Love to you,
            M

          36. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            My favorite Martian! Omg! My favorite show! Along with family Affair with Buffy and Jody. Gentle Ben. We had creature feature, Sesame Street and the electric company. Scooby doo, loony tunes, speed buggy, woody woodpecker, droopy, the original Mickey Mouse club w/Annette F., Popeye, and Tom slick… and Godzilla. The dark wasn’t afraid of chuck Norris yet, but night of the living dead was the scariest movie ever produced. The mummy, warewolf, and Dracula were on top. To you remember the claymation children’s show, monster party?

            Talk about the good ol’ days….
            I figured out I was old at 40, about ten years ago, it was weird, not scary. I had to admit I was balding and gray hair is everywhere. Mostly in my skunk striped goat-tee. It’s kinda cool actually!

          37. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I figured out I was old when I hit 52, and realized I was older than my Mama when she passed. It’s really weird to live longer than a parent at only 52. Most of the women in my family live into their 80’s or 90’s, which might mean I still have another 25 or 30 years to go.

            I started getting silver hairs here and there when I was in my 30’s, but it’s not really noticeable. In fact, I’d prefer them because my brown hair is baby fine and straight, while the silvers are thick and wavy. I’d even be tempted to grow it long again. But for practical reasons, I keep it short. And for fun, I think I’m going to keep the hints of purple undertones. Keeps people guessing.

            Tom Slick! Omigawd. I was a Johnny Quest fan. But I did love Batman with all the *POW!* and *BLAM!* graphics. I remember Romper Room, where she’d look through her magic mirror and “see” her audience. Ahhh… Annette Funicello. Beach Party movies were my preference over monster movies. I saw The Fog once and had nightmares long after.

          38. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Johnny freakin quest.. and Hadji. shouldn’t forget bandit. I joke about the mirror all the time pointing out idiots to my wife. I know shame on me but I have to do it sometimes… especially in Walmart at the first of the month. Me watching the beach movies was my mothers doing. Pretty good too. Ive seen every monster movie ever produced until Friday the 13 appeared with 30 remakes and it became a fad. I quit those and concentrated on Merlin and king Arthur. Anything with a sword. It lead to a kitchen knife collection lol. only the best. in my opinion…

          39. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I love the Merlin myths! Did you watch the more recent series on BBC? A young Merlin, quite the change from the usual. He’s Arthur’s man servant and hiding his magic until the last couple of episodes. Silly me, already knowing the ending, still sniffled a bit.

            Oh, how could I have forgotten Bandit? Of course, we skipped many of the animals, like talking horses and the pig on Green Acres, not to mention all the cartoon ones like Top Cat, the whole Warner Bros gang with Bugs Bunny, the whole Disney gang with Mickey and Minnie.

          40. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Everything gets a little choppy from the early 80’s on.

          41. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            It’s not a movie but a literature that i love with King Arthur and the magic sword. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Arthur began there with Guinevere as a legend made up as heaven. What a great work!

          42. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Where did you and Annie live to get 12 and 6 channels. I always had 3 or five but never 6. Didn’t get 12 until the internet cable and all. Now heck I can see saudia arabia from my messenger wall on facebook, speaking of which I better check that wall. Take care, all 🙂

          43. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Well, I grew up in Bakersfield California. When we had cable, we had 12 channels. Otherwise we had 3, NBC, CBS, ABC. We were close enough to Los Angeles to get ktla if memory serves me. It’s rare that memory serves me so…

          44. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            3 is all i remember and I am always rare. Memory is rare. The air is rare and misty indeed as rare Whew what an air of mist Goodnight. Sleep tight. I’m off to slumber land 🙂

          45. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            :-)… goodnight.

          46. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I grew up in St. Louis. We had the three major networks, PBS, and two locals, one of which you had to have a special round antenna to get. We never had cable or satellite.

          47. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Yup, I’m over it.

          48. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Patrick,

            I know that blogging and internet chat is more lax and lenient on authors than let’s say a writer who speaks on a juried paper, juried by a panel of editors who know the subject well, so get over your bad self and be a little lenient on us. Did I get Shakespeare right below? I hope Shakespeare doesn’t mind if I left out a comma on blogdom land. It’s not like I am asking. I am printing his fifth best bed here on blog land. HIs wife got his second best bed. Hmmm nobody knows what that means still. It’s a quandary. maybe a divine dichotomy.

          49. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            One would anticipate on a forum about spirituality, that ‘doing the right thing’ would be the greatest version/highest vision thing. Is it wrong to download music that you haven’t paid for in violation of copyright laws? People do it all the time. Does that make it right?

            Everyone talks here about changing themselves in order to change the world – Kumbaya and all that – but I suggest we do that by granting credit owed to sources copied, and I’m my old “bad self.” Well so be it. Maybe I’m sensitive to it because I’ve had content stolen; maybe I had it drummed into my head when I was in school that you don’t plagiarize other people’s work. Maybe I’ve seen other people lampooned and verbally destroyed on other blogs for using content without attribution. Policing each other can be an effective way to keep standards up.

          50. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Patrick, I apologize for saying “bad self.” I was teasing ad shouldn’t have been. I realize the importance of plagiarism. As a teacher, that’s big to teach. People do it for different reasons, some intentional and some not, but I am not here to judge. I just wanted to point out that with the invention of internet, there is a lot of leeway due to the casual and sometimes flippant jocular mannerisms. I won’t say a word about it anymore. Have agood day to all 🙂

          51. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            pla·gia·rism ; the practice of taking someone else’s work or ideas and passing them off as one’s own. My source was google, I didn’t pass it off as my own. That’s about as right as your gonna get. If you are concerned enough, you know how to copy and paste my post back to a search engine and do your own search to find out if my source was credible enough for you. Nobody else seems to mind. You knew exactly what part was mine and what part I copied from Google. You must have taken some insult from my post this morning to be throwing such a fit and spending so much thought on my post. Few people care so much about me my friend.

          52. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            You took someone else’s work and idea and passed it off as your own.

            This has nothing to do with any prior post. It has to do with doing the right thing. I’m amazed you won’t admit that you’re should properly quote and source material you take from others.

            Google is not the “source.” Google is how you found the source. You did not acknowledge the source. You plagiarized the source.

            It’s not a question of caring about you, it’s a question of self-policing and using peer pressure to keep us all honest. That others don’t mind is not the point. You love Neale’s messages, so tell me, is taking someone else’s work without quoting and sourcing, the grandest version of the greatest vision you hold of yourself?

          53. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            the grandest version of the greatest vision I hold of myself. I was good with my post. I maintain, I did not claim it as my own.

          54. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            I care a great deal about you! And I understood what parts of your post was yours and what was googled. We’re not in college, writing theses. I think your attribution was fine for posting a comment on a blog. I mean, are we all supposed to start putting sources for our dictionary definitions, too?

            You just keep being you and doing what you do because it’s you and we love you for you.

            Love and Blessings Always,
            ~Annie

          55. Jethro Avatar
            Jethro

            Thank you Annie! Oh I won’t change anything. Patrick and I will surely have this conversation again:-) But he did present Wikipedia rules of credit. I have to recognize that. That’s the right thing to do. But change? it happens, but not likely in that manner.

            Love and Blessings Always

      2. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        Yeah, a painful grin there from grumpy joe 🙂

  13. babybleustardust Avatar
    babybleustardust

    Hi everybody 🙂

    What’s the conversation of the day? Myne is I’m learning to fly. How about God is learning how to fly as a Goddess on high hi 🙂 Hey Patrick, rock on with your pagan self. Let’s see what is a pagan? Well, I googled it. A pagan, other than a heathen, which is kind of mean, is irreligious, ungodly, idolatrous or ungodly idolotrous. I don’t know. I am just messing with you. You can add this to 3.22 verse, Patrick 🙂 Love to All. I’m learning to fly. Oh yes. Here is the final definition of pagan, Patrick. “A person holding beliefs other than than the world’s main beliefs 🙂 🙂 🙂

    1. Sam Avatar
      Sam

      Sorry, babybleustardust, grumpy joe is on duty today, and he doesn’t understand you, as you know 🙂

      1. babybleustardust Avatar
        babybleustardust

        I am not to understand, as you know 🙂 grumpy joe what does he know 🙂 he needs to . . .what did he say or didn’t he say. I haven’t scrolled yet. see ya :t)

        1. Sam Avatar
          Sam

          “I am not to understand, as you know :)”

          I understand your soul, and it checks out on top of the scale 🙂

          1. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Thank you, Sam. My soul is always at the top of all scales. Now for the rest of me 🙂 is that a compliment or not. Mind, Body, Soul all in all in me is at the top. This I know for the bible tells me so. Little ones ah heck. Lelt it go. Thanks for the smile 🙂

          2. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “Thank you, Sam. My soul is always at the top of all scales. Now for the rest of me :)”

            Oh my, girls 🙂 Give them a compliment, and at once they want ten more. Whew, I am just a man 🙂

          3. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Good for you that I love men. Don’t take this wrong but I do. I am all woman, literally. Feminine Goddess here prefers moving and grooving as only feminine. God says I am all life but I prefer exchanging with only women not but only real men. I am not printing this to ask you out. This is something i am seriously working on at a hi soul level. I am all feminine and God has got to get over it. It may be at the highest Soul that I am androgynous. Am still trying to work it out. Please don’t think I am trying to pick you up. This is real. I am only feminine at a high juncture, a converging bottleneck point of high soul level just get over it Guy.:) hi HU it’s why I had to create a new galaxy not but a damn universe but I get it. I did seem to need a compliment. That’s alright. I am a little bigger than all tht but I did smile when I read your post. Thanks 🙂

          4. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Wow, don’t take me wrong, but you take the phrase “women are complicated” to a whole new level 🙂 And me being just this simple guy and all. Hmm. “Looking at yea”. Okay, bump into you later 🙂

          5. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I know. That’s why I spend way too much time talking to the soul. I gotta get out of here and get some sunshine, maybe a beer 🙂 catch ya later 🙂

          6. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Hahaha, please leave women out of this one!

          7. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Not entirely! 🙂

          8. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            from a to z I am complexly simple and not even going to apologize to any simple guy or simply complex one at that. 😉

          9. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Cool. I got it. And nicely put 🙂

  14. Kristen Avatar
    Kristen

    Howdy folks,
    Just trying to catch up on the sitcom. Hope I have this right so far.
    Neale wakes up at some UnGodly hour, and makes it a Godly hour.
    Michelle/Babybluestardust is a flying dolphin, preparing for a big horse trek whkle practising flying.
    Annie has constant rain and will be underwater soon. I hope Biscuit the dog has a raft.
    Patrick Gower likes people to dislike him, now teaches karate encouraging parents to kick their kids butts, looks for his friend Jack and has a girlfriend, and is possibly multiple people. Possibly Patrick from Spongebob Squarepants.
    Sam is still Sam Sam Sam I Am with green eggs and ham.
    Jethro is a plumbing counsellor, and just being Roy this week.
    Kristen (me) thinks cowboys are hot but hates rodeos.
    There are possibly some quiet observers, but no ghost moderator, it seems.
    Whats the next chapter?…definately an under the sea setting, with Annie and Michelle, possibly encountering Patrick and Spongebob and seahorses. Biscuit could save everyone?

    1. babybleustardust Avatar
      babybleustardust

      alright. seahorse. That’s me. I had a shell collection from the time I was little with a real seahorse. and real coral reef, not reefer, but reef. Wow anyhoo, nice summary of the latest on as the global turns. I know Neale has approached 700,000 clicks and I have 500,000 plus two always on me and that makes 700,000 so here I am and here we all are but who is clicking on here but me. Neale. Time for a new post. Let’s wake him up everybody. We know what time he arises for meditative hour. shhh it’s around five sometimes four am. He’s going to kill me now but he loves me, I hope 🙂 syanara elcondito I ride to New Mexico on a real horse or a flying golden eagle pure yellow. I quantum dreamed him up actually it was a triarch family a new species like never seen before and that’s what I’m riding on my horse always. spongebob always me. I am spongebob. nobody gets spongebob not even that nerdy squirrel what’s her face. alright. Goodbye. that’s the latest as the globe turns.

    2. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
      Spiritual_Annie

      Actually, Biscuit’s a pretty good swimmer, but he is a miniature Schnauzer so he’d have to save us one by one. I used to be, but that was 40 years ago. Fortunately, I’m a natural floater, so I won’t need a raft. When I used to go on float trips down the river, everyone else was in their canoes or inner tubes while I floated alongside, just going with the flow. And I’ll bet I wake earlier than Neale, though I don’t take an hour for my Holy Connection. Usually about 30 minutes, then I journal. Always writing, I am.

      Michelle is always flying, and I enjoy her journeys. Puts a smile on my face every time. Sam and Jethro and you do, too. ?

      Cowboys are hot! But I don’t care for rodeos, either. Or circuses or zoos or safaris.

      I’ll bet Jethro would make for one heck of a good counselor. Down to earth. Humble. Kind as he can be, but strong, too. I don’t think I’d want to get on his bad side.

      You left out quiet Magic Marko, who doesn’t say much, but when he does, he can be quite profound. He must be trying to get back to the alternate reality where Trump didn’t become President. Wish I were there.

      There are quiet observers because I get upvotes from them from time to time. I’m not sure they appreciate our flights of fancy, or maybe they’re laughing their butts off behind the scenes. I prefer to imagine the latter.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      1. Kristen Avatar
        Kristen

        Oops, Im sure Marko’s traumatised, but not in the sitcom that Im aware. Welcome to an update suggestion if he is though.
        My morning holy communion involves dragging myself out of bed after pressing snooze 4x at 8.15, after a straight 8 hour sleep, quickly getting ready, feeding cats, grabbing a coffee from Wild Bean on the 5 min drive to work then opening my shop at 9. Then drinking that coffee and loving every sip, saykng thank God for good coffee! Days off differ a bit, I would sleep 12 hours if I didnt drag myself out of bed…bed is heaven. Warm, cosy, thick feather duvet and pillows, nothing like bed!
        Get a lilo, you just never do know, Biscuit can tow you if you get tired or too cold in the big flood!
        Yip….cowboys are hot!! Nothing like a hot cowboy.

      2. babybleustardust Avatar
        babybleustardust

        Thanks for the smile 🙂 I try to fly and sometimes land a little wildly. I am learning how to skirt the galaxies in live time remotely but OEB is different, and I am aiming high. I like to drive really fast per se and just love that I create new ships, new species everywhere I go. Sometimes in an altrnate world, but I love driving fast and looking at the stars twinkle. My god tells me to land that ship instead of driving all night. He said more and more not less so I am attempting to out of body somewhere soon. Oh god. I hope I don’t land in this alternate place. I am landing on Elohim too much fire fire fire in the plane I was in last night wow it is a bit much for heaven they say just yet:) Love to all here 🙂

    3. babybleustardust Avatar
      babybleustardust

      🙂 accordingly I am here to update. First Patrick does not have the last name “Gower” It is Gallan isn’t it or something like that 🙂 Me? I am definitely a mermaid who invented a new species to woo the captain. In fact, I shrunk, like Alice and Wonderland, the captain himself, so I get to be big mermaid and he is in my pocket in a bottle with a lable to heaven that says “Do not open before nothing like Christmas. It is do not open radioactive likely” I am kidding. The captain is really a merman in my envisionment and I am the sea captainette or something like Captainess like tEss. I am Tess. I read that book. Oh dear God. Alright. definitely I am the sea, the ocean itself and I am a spalash at least. I intend to intend to land my ship in heaven. EAt tuna or not 🙂 I ate egg foo yong mmm anyhoo, love to all 🙂

      1. Kristen Avatar
        Kristen

        Update done, thanks!!!

  15. Sam Avatar
    Sam

    Rise and shine 🙂
    Yesterday was interesting. And I was right, the frankenstein-thing did really have a lot of spare time, and nothing better to do, at all.
    How grumpy joe turned on Jethro, and then all the way (a long way) at the end there to throw in an out of place sorry, was pretty revealing. This is a classic psychopath behavior. Which also raise the question, if grumpy joe indeed is an AI. He is very good with references, now also pointing back at me, morphed in, just like Kristen suggested. Very program-like indeed.
    From now on, grumpy joe, the fundamentalist, also will be referred to as ice cold joe, the psychopath. As it fits just as well.
    But then we have jovial joe, the old bulldog, to smooth things over. He is human, in every sense, and not very hard to get along with (and will do anything for a buck). Ice cold joe and jovial joe should really be using different accounts. To block out ice cold joe, the psychopath, would be no loss to anyone.
    So, if this really is a company, or whatever, testing out an AI on us, there could be an aftermath, if this ever comes out. Quite sueable. Turning loose a vicious “dog” on people like that. Annie especially would have a good case.
    And btw, there is no use engaging ice cold joe in any real debate, being a one-way street anyway, no one actually home, only making a fool out of you.
    Well, we’ll see how it all turns out, and a lot of fun ahead of us 🙂

    1. Kristen Avatar
      Kristen

      Rise and shine? Damn, I was just getting ready for bed, 10.47pm on Fri night here. Oh well, Ill stay up.
      The name Joe means God will add, please no!!!!!!
      Debate??? Havnt seen one yet, just that one way street.
      Making a fool out of us??? Nope, havnt seen that either.
      Normal Joe has openly said I remind him of a sister that he tries to provoke, but her beliefs are too strong for her to even get involved! Guess Im off the hook.
      But yes, if you are right, if I was Annie I would sue. In NZ cyber and text bullying are imprisionable crimes, and personal or psychological abuse, including cyber, is punishable just like sexual or physical abuse. People kill themselves over people being really mean, thats never ok. AND we’re a country that can’t sue. But I do like your karma.
      Comments, retaliation or tit for tat are one thing, but everyone knows the human nature limitations of acceptability…..except NoJoe.
      Take care,
      K

      1. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        “Normal Joe has openly said I remind him of a sister that he tries to provoke, but her beliefs are too strong for her to even get involved! Guess Im off the hook.”

        Normal Joe (jovial joe) is quite okay. But he is only treading water, keeping things going, patching things up, before and after ice cold joe, the psychopath machine 🙂

        1. Kristen Avatar
          Kristen

          One Joe acknowledged or very clearly implied some form of substance abuse earlier when you talked about if someone was high or similar, then reiterated it to you in the last statement in that comment, just if you missed it. I think he told you whats going on.
          K

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            I see. And certainly jovial joe. Ice cold joe is on something much stronger, though, in my view 🙂

      2. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        “But I do like your karma.”

        Well, thank you. And right back at yea 🙂

    2. Patrick Gannon Avatar
      Patrick Gannon

      Sueable? I’ve already offered you $10,000 to prove your claim. I’m like James Randi who offered a million dollars to anyone who could provide a real ESP, miracle, paranormal, etc. event. Nobody ever won the prize, though many tried. You aren’t going to win the $10K either, are you, Sam?

      I’m not too happy about the term “psychopath.” If you want to insinuate that some AI is psychopathic and generating me, that’s fine, but if you are personally insinuating that about me, the person behind this keyboard, then you are insulting me and this conversation is over with. I stop when the personal insults get to that point. There’s no sense in it, after that.

      1. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        “Sueable? I’ve already offered you $10,000 to prove your claim. I’m like James Randi who offered a million dollars to anyone who could provide a real ESP, miracle, paranormal, etc. event. Nobody ever won the prize, though many tried. You aren’t going to win the $10K either, are you, Sam?”

        $10,000 won’t cut it, to settle things, when that time comes. $10,000? You are truly a child 🙂

        “I’m not too happy about the term “psychopath.” If you want to insinuate that some AI is psychopathic and generating me, that’s fine, but if you are personally insinuating that about me, the person behind this keyboard, then you are insulting me and this conversation is over with. I stop when the personal insults get to that point. There’s no sense in it, after that.”

        Hilarious. The bully drawing a line, so he won’t start to cry. Don’t be obtuse, “Patrick Gannon” 🙂

        1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
          Patrick Gannon

          Have it your way. I’m done. Bye.

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            You are far from gone from this blog. See yea around 🙂

    3. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
      Spiritual_Annie

      This came to me via Alan Cohen’s daily inspiration:

      In order for you to insult me, I would first have to value your opinion.
      ~Source unknown

  16. Marko Avatar

    “Do not have a thought regarding anyone, do not say a word regarding anyone, and do not do a thing regarding anyone that would you not want thought, said or done regarding you.” CwG 4 P. 104.”

    1. Sam Avatar
      Sam

      Everyone does their thing, and from that, we evolve. No right or wrong. Attack, defense, peace, war, hate, or love. Whatever we pick, and it was pretty much exactly what we had to do at that point, from where we came, and to where we are going; up the hill.

    2. Marko Avatar

      Life has nothing to do with what you are doing, and everything to do with what you are being. Be careful not to get caught in the “doingness” of your life. That is not what you are here for. You are a sacred soul, and you came here to the earth to Be something. And not just one thing, but many things. The wonderful thing is, you get to choose what that is. And you get to do that right now. Always Right Now. So what do you choose to Be right now? Happy? Content? Safe? Peace? Forgiving? Compassionate? Love? Go ahead, choose. As many as you wish! -NDW

      1. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        “Life has nothing to do with what you are doing, and everything to do with what you are being.”

        I agree.

        “Be careful not to get caught in the “doingness” of your life.”

        Well, there is never any real danger, though.

        “That is not what you are here for.”

        Okay, but this possibility, to have as a goal and thought, is still been created for us to choose if we want to, and pretty much as expected.

        “You are a sacred soul, and you came here to the earth to Be something. And not just one thing, but many things. The wonderful thing is, you get to choose what that is. And you get to do that right now. Always Right Now. So what do you choose to Be right now? Happy? Content? Safe? Peace? Forgiving? Compassionate? Love? Go ahead, choose. As many as you wish!”

        Very good. Think positive—I won’t mess with it 🙂

      2. Kristen Avatar
        Kristen

        My life is about what I am doing. Every part of it is some extension of me, has relevance and is a part of my story.
        Today is washing, washing, washing and more washing. Boring, and irrelevant? Nope…it means that as a person I do all my adult kids washing so they always have clean clothes and are free to do what they would rather be doing.
        I a billion percent disagree with Neales statement. Boring chores, work and everything is a huge part of peoples lives, a true reflection of THEM BEING.

  17. Sam Avatar
    Sam

    NDW: “That is not what you are here for.”

    “Okay, but this possibility, to have as a goal and thought, is still been created for us to choose if we want to, and pretty much as expected.”

    What a clever guy, who said that? Oh, it was me. Lol. Yeah, I knew it all along. Babybleustardust taught me how to toot my own horn—it’s great 🙂 But all funny businesseseseses aside (Kristen, don’t you start!). This is serious.

    And quite a contrast, as this gets me sad, for real.

    “That is not what I am here for”..?

    So, there is something obviously wrong with me then, that I am doing something seriously wrong? How stupid of me. I must be a moron. Even a sinner? This brings back all kinds of bad memories of self-blame, making oneself feel small. And not just me. The same sea of sorrow all over. Way more overwhelming and powerful than the punchline of thinking positive.

    Whatever, and it is what anyone is here for. No right, wrong, or any kind of chance. Ergo, blame free. And guess what? We don’t have to think positive anymore, it comes automatically.

    I know, I took it out of context, and so forth. But as it was bugging me, making me sad even, I had to get it out of my system. To NDW, peace and love, you are the best regardless.

    1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
      Spiritual_Annie

      Sam,

      You are here to BE someone, at which you cannot fail because you already ARE someone—a unique individuation of Divinity, without which Creation would be incomplete. I like the way Barbara Marx Hubbard puts it (paraphrasing): Each of our Unique Selves is an instrument, and together we create a Unique Self symphony. If any instrument were missing, the symphony wouldn’t sound so sweet.

      BTW: To sin, in its original context, means simply to “miss the mark,” kinda like in archery where you aim but don’t hit the bullseye. No guilt attached, just take aim again and be your best.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      1. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        Perfect, and wonderful! 🙂

        Sin. Aha, that one too. So many innocent words turned into monsters over the years.

        1. Kristen Avatar
          Kristen

          Sam, read my above reply to Annie.
          Christians and their lies should be shot.
          Xx

    2. babybleustardust Avatar
      babybleustardust

      I taught you to toot your own horn.:) If I did this, I am grateful. I always do this, because, like I tell my students,not that you’re a student, but my literal classroom students, if you aren’t being you, who are you being 🙂 So always be yourself, your true SelfSoulSong, your sweet SelfSoulSong all day and all night long, or who you are being is not you at all and that isn’t fun ever. Now, I just don’t understand where is the sin in being you. Forgive me, but I am always feminine and never so reticent as perhaps I should be :0) but why you feel sin is way over my head. Like the linda ronstadt song It’s cold as ice. Over my head. Or is that Linda? I can’t remember. Oh well. Love you 🙂

      1. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        I think you felt self-blame too, once or twice in your life. Usually, something we “inherit” from the parents. Intentionally or not. What you say? 🙂

        1. babybleustardust Avatar
          babybleustardust

          of course 🙂 humanity is that but no need to feel it or be it. You’re not it. As you said, you can’t really fail at this mirage of alife. We’re everywhere as love. What you say to that one 🙂

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            I say, at last, you’re talking my language, in every sense. I don’t think it will last long, though, which makes me treasure this moment even more. High-five! 🙂

          2. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Is it a language of the heart and soul or a mind? what language of a heart and soul doesn’t last? I don’t know. I’m going for the soul–whatever it might be 🙂 high five’s and deuce’s wild whatever hand we play in life 🙂

          3. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            I understand your soul, as said before, the level you are at, but your mind cannot all the time keep up. Well, at least how it translates to me 🙂

          4. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Translations are faulty for many strands are dividing always in a lightworker at a high level. Perhaps it is your mind that can’t keep up. Sorry to disillusion but I am not here to meet a soul at a mind level.

          5. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Haha, as I said, it wouldn’t last long 🙂 Hope you got that beer 🙂

          6. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Sam, what a quandary you appear to be. beer not needed. Thanks anyway 🙂 not sure why the little mind (yours not myne) presumes not only that it met at my High Soul level, but that it knows my little mind and states “it can’t keep up.” You don’t appear to have met any high soul of myne. Those who do are a little kinder, I must say.. You might have met an imposter on the ride, but you’ll have take that ride up with your own mirror or contact Elohim yourself. That’s all I deal with at a high soul level. As far as a little mind goes, I can tell you straight up I don’t strive at an esp at any level other than God. Let me know when you reach that level. Many have tried that esp trip on me as some like to do with many. But, I have been ordered at a high call Soul Level to not meet like that. I don’t know. why you seem quixotic, but maybe you need the beer. Take care dear 🙂 I might add that if there is something missing in a mirror, look in your own. 🙂 for as the old saying goes, if there’s something wrong in life, look in the mirror. take care 🙂

          7. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “High Soul level, but that it knows my little mind and states “it can’t keep up.””

            Like high from intoxication, and try to talk, making little sense, it’s the mind that can’t keep up. And for real too: The mind is smaller/dumber than the soul.
            Regardless type of high (if high enough), and the mind can’t keep up. Not your mind specifically, but by the law of nature. Don’t take it personally 🙂
            When you, in your own personal way, is high, any sensible interaction is made impossible. Because it’s too high, and beyond the capacity of your mind to be presented in a sensible way. As it would be for anyone, regardless. A phenomenon no one can bypass 🙂

          8. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            “the mind is smaller/dumber than the soul”

            Not always.

            “Regardless type of high (if high enough), and the mind can’t keep up. Not your mind specifically, but by the law of nature. Dob’t take it personally.:)”

            I won’t take it personally unless you say it personally,and since you specifically addressed my mind, I took it personally. Nature has a way of resolving what is personal and what is naturally followed by Nature’s Law. 🙂

            As far as making it or not legible, that is for the High Soul. Call it Elohim 🙂

            Love to you 🙂

          9. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “As far as making it or not legible, that is for the High Soul. Call it Elohim”

            Well, I think Elohim sometimes had a beer or two. But okay 🙂

          10. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            yeah I know all about those beers and the spin the bottle and every other thing under the sun 🙂

    3. Kristen Avatar
      Kristen

      Damn, I dont get to play. That makes me sad too, might even be what Im here for. Makes me feel like Im the kid left on the side when picking teams….or maybe a moron or sinner not allowed in Heaven. LOL.
      But I do have an important question though….is a businesseseseses where you have more than one business combined, are uber busy or just when morons or sinners have a stutter??? Im fine with being a moronic stuttering sinner.
      Yes…I recall the horn tooting thread! Hahahaha.
      Sorry, I know this is serious, but I read the last post from Michelle….when will you learn!!!!!!!!

      1. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        Haha. But businesseseseses? It’s when a business shoots up and act twice as big, in the state of battle, just like a cat, and making that weird sound too, just like the word. It’s all in the dictionary. Just ask Patrick, or his moron twin “it” 🙂

        I never learn. Too naive. This simple mind of mine. Grrrr. No task too huge 🙂

        1. Kristen Avatar
          Kristen

          Aha….that secret conspiracy word, Ive heard about that. You must be CIA or something. Ive heard its never mentioned aloud, like the song Tribute To The Greatest Song In The World, just hints about it. Damn I love that song.
          Im not saying it aloud, I might spit or dribble, not cool, but I guess thats a part of secret words, there has to be a deterrant. I will write it in my dictionary though. With the refs in case Patrick ever sees it.
          Take care,
          K

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Funny you should speak of CIA, conspiracies, and secrets, just when I myself being diving into similar waters, for once. And now all sorted out and back to normal. But you have been on a little visit 😉

          2. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Yip, Ive visited a lot, but always kept my feet on the ground. Theres a great magazine, which is online as well, Uncensored…thats it’s name…haha, dad joke. Just in case you missed it ‘Uncensored..that’s “its” name’, just like your buddy, the “it”. IT it.
            Interesting, but I’m not sure who’s crazier, the people who contribute or those they write about. They talk so much about the conspiracy to create fear and make people paranoid, therefore submissive, yet they’re the ones so paranoid and fearful they write about it and try to open peoples eyes.
            I dont really believe in conspiracies at all, people do what they do publically, like trying to force vaccinations, chemtrails etc, so it cant really be conspiracies by default, its not secretive!
            Plus human nature is to only ever act where there is some form of personal gain, so if people want to govern or make $$$$$ then will do anything to attain that, whats new? Not conspiracies either. Ive yet to read about anything that I would define as a conspiracy. If I was a wealthy middle aged man Id probably be a Freemason or something, just for fun to make people paranoid I was up to something and fuel it…heck, Id just be there to laugh at overgrown boyscouts and for a free cookie!!
            Take care,
            K

        2. babybleustardust Avatar
          babybleustardust

          Ahh I missed a thread. I know the word. It’s onomatapeia. However it is spelled. It means the word like tahootahoot toooohahoot your own whistle or crack pop crunch crackle and all that words that soundd like word but aren’t. When will you and Kristen or kirsten ever learn to be kind? bye

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            What the… What is it now then? Women! 🙂 Whatever it was, I’m sorry 🙂

          2. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            nothing 🙂 I thought you were asking about words that sounds like it is when you sound out the word. It’s called omonopeia I can’t spell it. That’s the meaning of that word like blot splat click clack. woosh swoosh tinkle quack buzz hiss splash. All of those are called onamonapia.

          3. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            I see 🙂

          4. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Im glad…Law of Attraction, see it works. Now Michelle has explained to you the language she often speaks in. Utopian Onamonapian. You asked, shes finally answered.
            You look at the ‘words’ she uses, and try to visualise what she is using her own words to explain. What she ‘sees’ dont have english words, so she makes them up or used a mix with ‘beyond Earth’ words, like myne, instead of mine. Look for the spelling changes she makes, then work out why. Using the word myne as an example, the change from the letter i to a y is easy…they are both words (I and WHY). Therefore what was hers, total ownership with the sub word I in it, is changed to the sub word WHY rather than I. Therefore in more advanced universal languages, where people may speak in code or tongues, she is a light worker, then it tells people like me, a translater, to ask WHY she is moving her ownership through the word MINE to something shared, yet still hers, as only one quarter, one letter, of the word has been altered or changed.
            Its all sub conscious and she possibly isnt aware of how it works as she just slips into it. Many beyond Earth dieties communicate visually with telepathic images that only good visualisers are able to translates, completely different to normal psychic images as they are often coded and take work to decipher. Or look at the properties of that image…her saying she was a dolphin refers to a caring psychic people liking person, aware of the dangers but still swimming in the sea of cosmic consciousness, and how she chose to feel that day, her mood! Unicorn means untouchable and just playing and obviously a lot more.

            Bet you wished you never asked now…why she often speaks in a way understandable to only her, or seemingly two weeks ago. I couldnt answer then as Michelle dismissed your question, but now shes explained it a little, I can go ahead!
            Ill get in trouble for this!!! Hahaha.

          5. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            “what she sees dont have english words so she makes them up”

            The word “myne” is actually English. It is Old English. It is derived from german and the word “minnow.” I use it from time to time because Elohim uses it in my writing. It is a word that means “memory, thought, emotion, desire, feeling, affection, love.” This is why my books on True Twin use the term. Beyond Earth? Yea. Beyond beyond beyond that’/s where it came from. Chaucer.

          6. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Hi,
            The entire english language, and all languages are made up on the same basis, just as you do. Even one of the early CwG books stated the entity that channels to Neale struggles as there aren’t English words for what it wants to say.
            Yes, I know the word Myne, but also know how spontanious language works, incredibly complex, but fun.
            The word myne is one of the ‘secret’ words that give clues to the revered traits of the perfect human soul, which goes back to the ‘I’ changed to a ‘y or why’. You just told Sam the answer why you use it precisely…when mine becomes myne, a sharing word as it involves emotions received and given that include others. In Language Majic, a true Universal Law, we have downgraded ourselves as a species so it became a selfish word, differing to the original, so the spelling changed for common use, from a y to an i.
            Beyond Earth…..yip, where all language and the language gene came from.
            I just use the term beyond earth to define all and everything, its faster!!
            Take care,
            Xx

          7. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Hi,

            The words to say that come to any God to speak come naturally or not at all to some. I am that who call the code, read the code, interpret the code and break the code. I know all about the code being called throughout time immemorial, and even on this blog. Many read throughout all time and space. I read all languages and the actual imprint through all lettering in all time and space of every facet, including those at the shroud of turin itself. We live a living word of the souls moving through the lettering and thread and hair and tooth and anything through all life as first life or not. I am that who sees imprint on the code and that who strives to drive at devouring the energy through any meme, any anything that decries against the original intent of all living meme words living as Living Word. No. I know all about the “spontenaity” of words and their playful engagement throughout time and space, but my motive of intent far outweighs any who have malintent in any time and space. For the betterment of Christ is always my call, so I know the full meaning of the word myne. It is not merely about emotions. It is about a True Twin Heart and that is not a selfish heart, nor does it include emotions from others that include falsity. Why share falsity with any Christed Ones? These are sifted by me so I know every imprint in every leaf. It’s freaky to see a face in an actual leaf on a tree.

          8. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Hi ya. I agree with most.
            Hey, if you look online, google Uncensored magazine, there are two really good articles about the story of Adam and Eve, and Elohim. Im not sure if you use the word Elohim meaning the original Hebrew word as a plural, meaning Gods, rather than a singular God before Jehovah/YWHW split himself off as one God working alone. Sometimes I wonder if Y’shua is the incarnate of Adam, trying to reverse the tree incident. Not sure. But psychically I can tell theres something in there about red skin or red hair. Red hair is in my blood, which is why Ive dyed it red for probably 25years, it just feel right.
            Articles are in the lasest copy, and kind of how I view things, well sort of. I would be interested to hear your views if you have time or inclination to take a look.
            And hey, Sam is just a person, he has no ill intent and is just conversing in general, not being negative at all, hes said he likes you and this thread started with him complimenting you.
            Just read it all with a smile, like a face to face chat. Everyone is different.
            Smile.
            Xx

          9. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I am smiling and I am not here to say I am not, but don’t shine a negative angle at me that says I don’t work as light. What articles do you refer to? Can you give me the sum total of them here? I am referring to God. Elohim is a fragment as you mention, but he is always God in the highest. Elokim is the plural, which was referred to as being defied and done away with is my guide’s answer. There is one God of creation. That’s all I can say about Elohim.

          10. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I am referring to God from now on as just God. Elohim is God as we all can be. Elohim was and is God but his lines change day to day as some depart from the tree that blooded out just yesterday from an old dead tree from old bible times. We speak and know each other but God is a term I use from now on to refer to All Life.

          11. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “Utopian Onamonapian. You asked, shes finally answered.
            You look at the ‘words’ she uses, and try to visualise what she is using her own words to explain. What she ‘sees’ dont have english words, so she makes them up or used a mix with ‘beyond Earth’ words, like myne, instead of mine. “

            Oh my, not my cup of tea, I’m afraid. Me and Michelle are opposite elements like that. I’m put on Earth to straighten things out. I very much appreciate when she makes sense to me though 🙂

          12. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Dear Sam,

            You certainly have a lot to learn about Earth. If you are just reading meme and now learning, you need to go back to square one. You don’t know me at all.

          13. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Hmm, whatever that was 🙂

          14. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            a Hmmm is for true bees that mix honey. I don’t mix with words like this:

            “me and Michelle are opposites. I am put on earth to straighten things out.”

            Sounds like, from your dream you posted about Patrick, you have a lot to work out. And, I am not here to judge. I am just noticing your vitriol at others, not inclusive am I in your idea that I am not here on Earth to “straighten things out.” Go jump up a level or ten million.

          15. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Oops, this is a wasp nest, all right 🙂
            Like when I said the mind can’t keep up. It was just to point out to me a fact of life. Nothing remotely vitriol. How you take my good intentions is not my responsibility. Fact: You have your own made up language, which at its most “advanced” absolutely no one else understands. On an information wire that pretty much looks like a tangle, only causing problems for the best possible way of exchanging information. My natural state is to straighten out any tangle whenever I see one. From my view, your natural state is the opposite, having them made all the time in that capacity. So, there you have it 🙂

          16. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Sam, you don’t have a natural view of me but you have a view of your perception, which has no view of my Living Word. I don’t speak in a way you can access. Those here need to know there are those who know hahaha and hehehe and all that stuff is also a code that I do know all lines to and all lines from and I detangle the tangle that thinks you’re viewing my tangled web. Angels mingle to detangle and you are not hearing angelic music when you point fingers at those reflections that see so scary to you. Those are your reflections, not myne.

          17. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Of which I am perfectly fine with 🙂 I speak my mind, how I see it. And you speak yours. This is what we do here 🙂

          18. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Hahahahahahahaha.
            Just for the record, Im on Earth for physical etc as well, feet firmly on the ground. But not sent here, I was just born here cos my parents shagged and that baby got a new soul as Israelites bodies generally get new souls, not second hand ones, not reincarnated, this is my first life.
            These conversations are hilarious. Ill take the rap for this one, as well as the other one as well!

          19. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “Ill take the rap for this one, as well as the other one as well!”

            Well, call it a break between life/lives 😉

          20. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            agreed 🙂 and as we work we sometimes disagree and that is just fine.

          21. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            speaking of a wasp nest. Those are lines coming near the angelic being light. You might be viewing those negative aliens you thought you dreamed. Those aren’t myne. That’s your tangled web to weave out of existence. Wasps are real popouts for me. As are moths, ants and all kinds of animals like cats, dogs, people. I have seen all kinds of popouts, which means they pop in and out of planes they aren’t meant to be in. I break down those lines. Stop messing with fire you can’t handle.

          22. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “Stop messing with fire you can’t handle.”

            Lol. I only solve puzzles. Pieces that fit together, making a bigger and clearer picture. I have no private dance with any of the pieces of a puzzle at all 🙂

          23. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            From the dream you spoke of where you pointed at Patrick as the culprit, when it is your own consciousness travelling to where? it sounds like you have quite a big puzzle to work on.

          24. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “babybleustardust
            From the dream you spoke of where you pointed at Patrick as the culprit, when it is your own consciousness travelling to where? it sounds like you have quite a big puzzle to work on.”

            No dream at all. Before sleep. A vision. Call it a state of meditation.

          25. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Sam, it’s still your view. A meditation is real or not, but it is still your dream to decode accurately. You are looking in a dark space using your contents and those are yours alone to decipher using your lens alone, not necessarily the lens through which All Life sees. It is those you think you see, but as God taught me in my first lesson Appearances are not always real.

          26. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Dark space? 🙂 You make me laugh again, babybleustardust 🙂 You seem lost regarding your own experiences. But I am not 🙂

          27. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I would quote you from your post on the octopus that is “something else alright” though it is your travel dream. You dreamt it. It’s yours. That’s all I meant. You’re something else alright. You yourself said it is dark. I was only quoting what you said about your vision. My question now, since you spoke about it, is why do you think it is Patrick? Because Patrick is an atheist or agnostic or whatever and is scientific and logical and argumentative? Does that make it a conspiracy of the most treacherous kind known to mankind involving 9/11? Is this what you said. I recall this being what you said. If you said about that about me I might sue you for slander. Dear God. Talk about someone having a lawsuit. Why go there if to only point a finger at everyone else. Fix it. It’s why you’re there apparently.

          28. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            I don’t understand. Sorry 🙂

          29. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Not sure what you do not understand about common english. You made a strong allegation that patrick is involved somehow in 9/11 based on the fact that he is nitpicky or something, cares about quotes, argues a little too often. I don’t know but this doesn’t sound like a blogger of peace that you give here. i hope you find love and peace to give others in return for love 🙂

          30. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “Not sure what you do not understand about common english.”

            Well, I do recognize when someone just wants to be in my face, having no other reason 🙂 But then let’s talk about why you don’t mind little children (or older for that sake) to be treated with physical violence. Seems to me you struggle with compassion. Also, when regarding Anni. What do you say? 🙂

          31. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Regarding Annie? what do you mean?

          32. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            What do I mean? And you are not on something? I won’t tell. Try to find out for yourself, as the only one not knowing. Damn.

          33. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Sam, you’re right. I am the only one not knowing what you mean. Maybe Annie can tell me. I have no clue. You are viewing something definitely not me.

          34. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I am not in your face. You are in myne when you speak of my words to others like a gossip.

          35. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Not only did you just admit it, but even gave it a reason 🙂 You are acting like a child, throwing a fit, not getting your ice cream. Oh my.

          36. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I am no child asking for any ice cream from you. That is not my dream from you. You directly posted by my hand to God I AM my name. When you post to Michelle’s name, I respond. You spoke directly about me as if I didn’t read the writing on this blog. Speaking of which, this is supposedly a conversation with God wall. I might return later to see the next post by Neale. So far, this conversation has gone no where and is going no where, as far as I am concerned.

          37. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “You directly posted by my hand to God I AM my name. When you post to Michelle’s name, I respond. You spoke directly about me as if I didn’t read the writing on this blog.”

            Even though still a bit far out from my standard, you at least try to explain me something. That is constructive. Something, in any case, to be appreciated. And how I am with you. To be in my face for the sake of being in my face is on the other hand destructive. Then the conversation will be about your lack of compassion, about this self-absorbed person, where personal high is all that matters—and nothing else.

            Btw gossip. You and Kristen did gossip about me (I don’t mind, Kristen) when I, at the time, was pretty much gone forever. And to the point where you said something like: “Wasn’t there a Sam on this blog?”. Which was the very line that brought me back, to confirm. So, blame yourself, Gossipgirl 🙂

          38. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Sam,

            I don’t take marching orders from you when I speak. You call me a “lack of compassion” if I respond to you when you are deliberately taking my words out of context and telling a lie as if I drew you to me some how? No. I did not. In that conversation, Kirsten, I think, so many were joking around about sitcoms and food fights, said I was Sam or confused me with you or insinuated I was attempting to confuse everyone by referring to me as Sam. God I Am called me Sam from Casablanca, from the book that was my favorite by Dr. Seuss, and from the show Bewitched, my favorite as a little girl. Never was I calling me you. I was really speaking a truth, a joke between God I AM and I. Why did I need to explain all of that and respond here? Because you called me here to say be compassionate and point out to you there is a need for you to discover why you are telling lies and taking my word out of context. Stop telling lies about me and then I will never post to you again.

          39. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Hi Michelle,
            Ive just seen this, its crazy. I thjnk I accidently started it explaining some of your language when Sam had previously been curious, and you dismissed his question as irrelevant, as well as possibly accidently dismissing him by saying ‘wasnt there a Sam on this blog?’ when you had spoken with him.
            Neither of you have ill intent, but this from a readers point of view is all clearly misunderstanding based, and as he said, you are speaking different languages and really not understanding eachother. You are difficult to understand sometimes, its a positive issue that Sam chose to try, and asked about things.
            There are so many people in the world that would just love strangers to want to talk to them or express curiosity about them, look at all the wierdos with fake facebook pages and their own blogs, just so people talk to them.
            Sam has nice energy, you know that, and this isnt like you at all, this isnt from a good place, I think the entire thing is misunderstandings. Sorry about my typos, this is really slow ton7ght and it wont let me go back and fix typos!
            Sorry to sound like Mom, but this isnt you Michelle, and Im confused, as well as concerned, but it may just be that you and Sam just clash and have zero in common.
            Xx

          40. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Kirsten,

            I am not happy with what I am seeing on the blog. No. You’re not my mom. No you’re not my Mom, You are a person I don’t know other than the blog here. That is all I know of Sam. At times, his energy feels good through his posts, but at other times he is in an attack mode and pointing a finger at me for merely saying in answer to I thought it was you who said something about my being called Sam of Casablanca by God I AM that it is an attempt to impersonate Sam of Green Eggs and Ham. Isn’t it crazy to go on. I don’t allow someone like Sam who is now accusing Patrick of being involved with 9/11 and what? He thinks he met me. He is crazy. No you’re concern for me dosn’t sound like you, Kirsten. You seemed lighthearted, which is why we engaged in all those silly sitcom chatters, isn’t it. I know all about the sitcom chatter mind and the score mind and all the aliens do too who witness this blog. I won’t be a party to Sam’s cyber bullying. I won’t ever meet Sam or anyone who is obviously feeling an energy field not Myne. Myne is a word that goes PREDAWN. That is my Word. I have to go.
            Talk to you later.

          41. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Im always concerned for you, you know that. You asked for my help over a year ago, but someone else took over going psycho, threatening me and making it clear that anyone who tries to help you will receive financial and other curses, reacting chronically when I tried with a protective pyramid around you, which was done by someone else not me, I just created it for them to take away and transfer to you. Which was taken down at your request as G… went completely pyscho. You stated you acknowledge Mother Mary as the motherhead, and Im sure that was passed on.
            You asked me not to try, or not to help, and Ive respected that, but that doesnt mean Im inhumane and unconcerned about you. You meaning Michelle the physical person, and no one or nothing else that you allow around you.
            Predawn is the word for Lucifer, the light of dawn, watch that one. And thats not an accusation, just what the word means in universal language, not a good choice of words.
            Just take care Michelle, you know this is all from a good place. I cant help, but I can be frustrated and care.
            Xx

          42. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Gossip? Nope, I would have just said Sam Sam green eggs and ham. I only talk about Patrick because he asked for a foodfight, BUT what on Earth is going on here. Ive just seen all of this, WTF??
            This is all crazy. I

          43. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Crazy indeed. But then in a way good crazy. When turning on me, defending Patrick as well, she opened Pandora’s box, showing me exactly who she really is. Things seem to expose themselves easy around there, without me actually having to do much. I couldn’t be more pleased. Me and Michelle are all over, just like me and Patrick, as they are of the same kind; all fake. In an upcoming post, on top, I will spill the beans on Michelle, oh my, explaining Michelle’s role on this blog down to the very specifics. But first, some other business, and some good sleep. A lot of fun ahead of us, just like I said 🙂

          44. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I did not turn on you, Sam, nor did I defend Patrick. I don’t like being around cyberbullies. I don’t like bullies. I think you are accusing me directly of things you do not understand. You are witnessing a “vision.” I am not in your vision. Sorry. You got the wrong girl. I am aware of a negative HEB or alien species. It is watching the blog, but that is not me. I am not a party to anyone accusing me of such junk. You are crazy yourself to accuse anyone like me. I have actually been run over by a car by such fields of force. It is not a person. It is a field of force where they play. They target me because I AM I AM and I do work hard in bringing down these negative fields. That’s all I am saying ever. Please stop bullying me, and if it’s not a bully then why are you talking about me as if I am not here to respond to your accusations. I don’t like exchanging these dialogues, but if you attempt to bully me again, I will report this to Neale myself as this is not a place to engage in notes on experiences with ancient races of aliens. I don’t think Neale would like it.

          45. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Be careful. But youre right, there are so many gifted or psychic people in here thats ‘majic’ has kicked in. Quite rare to see, with everyone affected by it and in a role in some form, interesting, but people were warned when it all started with discussions about honesty and true identities. Like a veil lifting.
            Xxx

          46. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Who said I didn’t mind children being treated with violence. What are you on? You sure are not reading my view accurately. I actually worked ten long years for Justice for Children. YOu need to back off. I worked legal work for Justice that went all the way to the State Supreme Court. Do get your mind together.

          47. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “Who said I didn’t mind children being treated with violence.”

            You did.

            Babybleustardust: “Not saying you’re an abuser, just different strokes for different folks ;)”

            You don’t mind at all. Even throwing in a smile and a wink. Disappointing.

          48. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            Sam, that was a post to Patrick about him. You took my quote way out of context. I clearly stated I am against spanking. Never did I say I ever believed in child abuse. He was talking about corporal punishment in his own house. I personally never would condone that behavior. Wow what a contorted view. You don’t read the rest of what I said. You are way out of line here and way out of context. Personally, please stop posting to me at all. I came here to read about Conversations With God and not this shmuck kind of chatter.

          49. babybleustardust Avatar
            babybleustardust

            I am not laughing, Sam. I am seriously saying you take everything to the lowest level of existence. You took a colloquial speech and turned it into a private dance? No one asked for a private dance with any puzzle piece, not my puzzle. Just to be clear with you. Wouldn’t want you to misinterpret any kind of lettering.

          50. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            It’s like you wrote nothing at all here, Michelle. It makes no sense to me.

  18. Kristen Avatar
    Kristen

    Mmmmmmmmmmm Ive been schmoderated, the serious few including about sins, which was important. Clearly manual.

    1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
      Spiritual_Annie

      Is that why you tell Sam to refer to a reply to me, which I can’t find? I got a little confused about that and was going to ask, but then I saw this.

      1. Kristen Avatar
        Kristen

        Yip. It was about the scripture difference between sins and crimes. I think there are about 15 sins listed, and are forgiveable and a part of religion only. Laws differ and are punishable and are for all. Was quite long but I cant retype it as its late, eyes are drooping and a cat is clawing me like they do before sleep so can hardly type….arm is trapped!!!
        Take care,
        K
        Xx

        1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
          Spiritual_Annie

          I didn’t even get a notification on that one. I just checked.

  19. Marko Avatar

    It just occurred to me that CwG book 4 “Awaken the Species” is not about awakening the species.

    It’s about awakening the individual more and, from that individuals expanded awakening, do they influence, model, example more to awaken others. From there, perhaps small groups emerge & perhaps later still larger groups, until it’s a natural process that the world collective will value awakening more, over being asleep.

    1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
      Spiritual_Annie

      Marko,

      Precisely put. That’s how I see it “dovetailing” with the previous books. I also see it as an extension of the Five Levels of Truth Telling, the last being to tell the truth to everyone all the time. We need to live it and, when asked, share it. Or if we’re on social media, share it to start more conversations.

      I’m encouraged that it says many of us are already awakened but don’t recognize it, so it’s a matter of moving from intellectualizing to living it. We can move from our internal beliefs and private practice to becoming magnets in our spheres of influence when others see how we express our grandest version of the greatest vision ever we hold about who we are. Who we all are.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      1. Marko Avatar

        I would agree!

  20. Sam Avatar
    Sam

    What I am about to tell you, is more fantastic than any fantasy could ever dream up. And therefore true. This revelation is not even remotely close to anything else I ever dealt with in my entire life. Something that normally couldn’t be further away from my everyday life and the direction of my mind. But there you are. This is something else all right. And it’s enormous. A gigantic “octopus” underground, of the darkest dark. Underground, both literally and figuratively.
    I’ve been a “zombie” for days, completely leaving my body, in search for the answer to this mystery on this blog. And from only grasping bits and pieces in the beginning, suddenly everything came to me last night. All the pieces, from all directions, floating together to the center, perfectly connecting, making out one crystal clear picture. A true moment of eureka, and my body all “electrified”. But what a dark picture it was. Very dark.
    This one piece, especially was bugging me for days, like knocking on my window, so to speak, for absolutely no reason at all, or so I thought. It irritated the life out of me, as I saw it as just interference and noise. I was like: “Get away from me!” But to my big surprise, it joined in with the overall picture, as it all came together yesterday. This disturbing piece, bugging me for days, is from 9/11.
    Every time going in depth and behind the scenes on “Project Patrick Gannon”, this disturbing piece was always there, on the side. So, in the end, I went with it, following it straight down into the ground to a vast underground facility. The headquarter of an organization of the darkest dark. This organization is in direct contact with bad aliens, on a daily basis, with the agenda to manipulate how the world develops.
    “Project Patrick Gannon”, is a stake out of Neale’s place. To monitor and to sabotage. Because of Neale being under the influence of good aliens. Their arch enemy. He is dangerous. And here they are, putting up a fight, in every way they can. And to do so in force, bringing a team: “Project Patrick Gannon”. With the use of advanced software and alien technology.

    This is the fight between good aliens “service to others” VS. the bad aliens “service to themselves”. Where the bad aliens join up with humans of the same mind. Those being selfish and egocentric. Which describes Patrick-everything-for-a-buck perfectly. But also when it comes to the overall philosophy, like we see defending even minor things like quotes fanatically and fiercely. It’s all about ownership and self-glory. And oneself put forward and up before anything and anyone else. They look down on others and want to rule us. Very much in line with the philosophy of Ayn Rand. No, I haven’t read anything from Neale’s last book (other than what’s being quoted here), but I would think it says similar things.
    Not in a million years I ever thought I be posting such a post. As my life only revolves around the research of spiritual truths. But this felt like destiny, actually, to have it out there, to make us aware.
    “Project Patrick Gannon” is one little tip of the coldest iceberg in the universe. Someone should melt it down.

    1. Marko Avatar

      The answer is simple. Stop engaging him & move on.

      1. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        Yes. If everyone would.

        1. Marko Avatar

          Well that’s their decision to make. For you, I’d suggest not engaging him anymore, and be done with it.

          I’m okay with engaging with him, but I’ve made most of my points to him & don’t know that I can add any more to him with out being repetitious.

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “For you I’d suggest not engaging him anymore.”

            Oh, my engagement with Patrick, and he with me, is pretty much over. Haven’t you paid attention? But I stay somewhat flexible. Static is never a good life situation or strategy. But thanks anyway 🙂

          2. Marko Avatar

            No, have not paid a lot of attention, some yes, but mostly I don’t bother with unless it’s relevant to the topic of the blog, not personalities.

          3. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            Yep, I figured as much. Just like the captain of the ship. Solid and loyal, and steady as she goes. No nonsense. Which we need, and to be admired 99.99 % of the time. But sometimes there really is an iceberg straight ahead. Just saying 🙂
            But no worries. I said my piece. All sorted out, the final explanation put forward, and back to main course 🙂

    2. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
      Spiritual_Annie

      Sam,

      In CWG Book 4, there are references to two different kinds of what we would call “aliens.” There are those that exist within our physical universe on other planets, and there are those referred to as “interdimensional” beings who exist in dimensions or realities most of us cannot (yet) access.

      In both instances, there are said to be some who are interested in what happens here on our small blue planet. Like all civilizations, there are varieties. Some advanced civilizations have no propensity for violence and some do. The HEB’s that have been referred to in his books who are desiring to assist in our evolution are interdimensional beings who used to physically visit us, but the visitations caused such strong reactions that they no longer do so. They do, however, send thought energies our way.

      I used to watch the series Ancient Aliens with some interest but also with some skepticism, trying to find what rings true for me. I do believe that, as it’s said in Carl Sagan’s Contact, if there aren’t other intelligent life forms in our universe, that’s an awful lot of wasted space. On the show, there were episodes of UFO’s coming from outer space, USO’s that suddenly fly out of deep waters, and ancient Native stories of subterranean beings.

      Anything’s possible. I’m not a conspiracy theory buff, but was a fan of The X Files, and your experience is in line with their plotline of certain influential ​people cooperating with aliens. It might just be science fiction, but previous science fiction has become now everyday fact—things like telecommunicators (cell phones), lasers and phasers, for example.

      I don’t have the patience or the desire to stand up against Patrick’s nearly cut-and-paste repeated arguments that only objective evidence should be considered, that there’s no objective evidence for God and therefore no reason to believe in God, that subjective experiences can’t be trusted even with commonalities amongst many, that what he calls “Neale’s New Age God” needs to be done away with as much as the Abrahamic God’s, ad nauseum, much less his insulting characterizations of people of faith and people here.

      If you ​have the wherewithal to keep taking him on, more power to you. I will interject here and there to your posts as I always have, and wish you the best.

      Love and Blessings Always,
      ~Annie

      1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
        Patrick Gannon

        I’m not going to buy the book, so can someone tell me: Does Neale provide any evidence at all for these aliens (or HEBs)? Annie says she is skeptical when it comes to “Ancient Aliens” but she doesn’t seem very skeptical when it comes to Neale’s account. AA at least tries to incorporate evidence, though the convolution they need to go through reminds one of a Catholic theologian attempting to explain the trinity at times.

        I’ll agree that aliens are more likely than gods though….

        1. Kristen Avatar
          Kristen

          Hi. Do you have any comments on what Sam had to say above? Just curious.
          K

          1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            No. It was all in good fun until Sam turned to personal insults. That’s the OFF switch for me.

          2. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Fun for you…..making it clear you dont believe a word anyone says, and discounting the experiences of others as a load of crock, lies, dementia, brain deception, mental health disorders, hallucinations, figments of their imagination etc is personal….YOU are the one that gets personal all the time, so you cant control peoples reactions. What YOU say are personal insults, you just cant see it, because you cant see past your own personal wall of science and the physical…your attitude is blocking everything else.
            Whats wrong with just saying ‘your experience differs to mine or what my personal beliefs are, for I only believe in proven science’ and leave it at that. You dont seem to understand what you do to people, not me, but clearly others. To tell people you basically think theh are lying about their own experiences is just you being mean, it serves no other purpose, and for your sake I certainly hope you dont do it in real life or face to face.
            Do unto others as you would have them do unto you….of course you would expect people to get personal, talk about you and be mean. Stock standard karma buddy! And Im doing it deliberately, you deserve it, once done, the entire situation is gone!
            Xx

          3. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            I never said anyone lied about their subjective experiences. I said they have very little value as evidence.

          4. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            They have 100% evidence, its been proven to them and something they have experienced…including God!!!!!!!
            You use every possible word other than the word lie.
            Its ok though, put out shite and youll get it back.
            Again, I win, you’re speaking as a normal person rather than a boring robot.
            And dont bother saying I havnt won, there is nothing to win….save time because you started a food fight so every hit counts, no matter what or where Im trying to hit, or what I use to throw.
            Haha, whats the score…me 20, you 0.

          5. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            They have 100% evidence for themselves, but that evidence is practically useless for any independent evaluation of these phenomenon. If they don’t like me saying that – tough. Not my problem.

            You are saying “they” so I assume you don’t believe in NDE’s, OBEs, and other paranormal experiences, or do you? The only difference between us, is that I say so. It’s called a “global conversation.” I’m conversing. What value is your testimony suggesting that they believe their experiences are 100% true, when I’m pretty sure that you agree with me that these experiences are delusions. What experiences of yours have I challenged? I don’t recall that you’ve ever shared any of these psi experiences. Why aren’t you on my side in questioning them?

            If you think you’re winning some game, then good for you! Go buy yourself a brownie and celebrate.

          6. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            I believe in the truth, no matter what it is. And that includes NDEs, OBEs and paranormal experiences, Ive experienced a lot. Also seen ‘ghosts’ and heard them including one yelling in my ear that was as clear as a person speaking physically, yet no one else heard. It was at a haunted house thing that a friend and I went to for fun. It was caught on tape heard later by the paranormal investigators, and hilarious, because he yelled ‘they dont know what theyre talking about’. I also heard footsteps upstairs, like a physical person that I assumed it was, until they said no one was up there, and others only heard it on the recording. It was actually a paranormal sceptics evening. Ive had a child spirit in my house, that I saw running, so clear I thought it was my son, and wondered why he ran from the ringing phone not answering it.
            I could have also been a medium, I could hear ‘guides’ and used to see images before things happened. Like my son with his arm in a cast a week before he broke it.
            Thats all a life I chose not to have, I prefer to be more a physical life and dont like or want any spirits or anything around me, they can influence a lot. God also forbids mediumship anyway, so you cant have that life, and God at the same time. People are kidding themselves if they think they can have both.
            But if they werent proven to me, I would still believe others when they speak of them, especially such high numbers.
            Take care,
            K

            Ill have that brownie now thanks, is the foodfight off?

          7. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Thank you again, for the on-topic response. You said you believe in the truth, no matter what it is; but how do we define truth? It’s such a slippery subject. Truth is defined as the quality or state of being true, or that which is in accordance with fact or reality – which implies compelling objective evidence, right? Otherwise how do we know for sure, if something is in accordance with fact and reality?

            The only “truth” we can all rely on, in my view, is the one that is supported by objective evidence. Subjective evidence does not meet the standard for determining that something is definitely true – and may suggest the opposite.

            I read a bi-monthly magazine called Skeptic, and they regularly check out these ghost things, and regularly debunk them – most are out and out frauds; others end up having natural explanations for them. If you only seek evidence that supports what you believe, you never see the evidence that debunks it. Using that term “debunk” in search terms, can yield a lot of really good information and is a good practice to get into, especially about things you believe. When someone presents an argument or idea I’m inclined to accept as true, I search with the “debunk” term and from time to time, what seems to be legitimate ends up being garbage or an outright scam. There’s a lot of pseudo-science out there that sounds really convincing till you dive into it.

            The question for any of the ghost people or anyone else who believes in miracles or the interactions of immaterial beings in our material world is – how does that happen? How does something immaterial affect the material world? The question has been asked for centuries – and the answer, as it turns out, is that the immaterial does not affect the material world, and if the immaterial exists, it is moot. It does not matter, and cannot participate here without breaking every single law of physics and overturning every single experiment ever run that supports the Standard Theory. Quantum field theory tells us the odds that all those experiments and the odds that the core theory is wrong, are exceptionally low – back to that likelihood of a pink polka-dotted dinosaur manifesting in your living room at 11PM this evening. QM says it could happen – but it also says – don’t wait up.

            You’re not going to believe the scientists who have confirmed this with decades of observation, experimentation and overwhelming objective evidence, right? Instead you are going to believe the subjective experiences of people like Annie? If Annie and a handful of other people say they experienced OBEs they must be true? What do you mean by “high numbers”? As a percentage of the population, these numbers are pretty low. You do know that we can manually manifest OBEs now, by stimulating the right part of the brain… it’s a brain thing, not a soul thing. To learn more, search out this article: “livescience out-of-body-illusion” You said you believe in the truth….

            You started off your post saying that “I believe in the truth, no matter what it is” but you finish by saying “But if they werent (sic) proven to me, I would still believe others when they speak of them, especially such high numbers.”

            Therein lies the gulf between us. I don’t trust my own subjective experiences, so why would I trust other people’s subjective experiences, and why should you or anyone else? If these paranormal events were real, we’d have amassed more than enough objective information to confirm them by now. Why isn’t the burden of proof on those who make the claims, when their claims fly in the face of everything we know to be “truth” about our natural world?

          8. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            If you’re going to go off on a rampage, get your facts straight. I have never discounted the experience of others as “lies.” I have certainly questioned the reliability of subjective experiences and will continue to do so. These are all well-documented issues.

            I try very hard to avoid personal insults, but if one is insulted because I question their beliefs, that is their problem, not mine. If one feels insulted because their beliefs are questioned, it probably means those beliefs should be pulled out and examined closely.

            Why should I stop responding to the claims of others? I will stop responding to the claims of psi woo, NDEs, OBEs, and other subjective claims, when they are no longer claimed. If others are able to make those claims in this forum, then clearly, in a “global conversation” I, or anyone else, is on stable grounds in questioning those claims. Neale has never attempted to edit content here. If you don’t like it, all you have to do is skip my posts.

            Have I been rough on Annie? Yes, I have; but always in response to her going off on me first. Annie is upset that I don’t accept her psi experiences; yet Annie is not a good candidate to be taken seriously for such things, by her own admission. She tells everyone who comes here her sad sob story about child abuse, physical and mental health problems, sleep problems, and then suggests that her experiences should be taken seriously. I don’t take my own subjective experiences seriously, and I have none of those issues; so why would I take her experiences more seriously than my own; and why should anyone else? She’s not a good subject to be taken seriously when it comes to all this psi stuff. Marko and Mewabe are more believable, and I don’t trust their subjective experiences either. They don’t appear to be insulted; or if they are, they’ve managed to deal with it in a more adult fashion.

            I imagine that you refer to Annie when you talk about me hurting her. If in fact, my criticism of her subjective experiences “hurts” her, then she’s making my point for me. If that’s true, then I suggest she may have issues that disqualify her subjective experiences from serious contemplation – and if that hurts her feelings or your feelings, then deal with it. I’m not insulting anyone, not calling anyone a pathological liar or a psychopath, as I’ve been called on several occasions here. Obviously I wouldn’t talk about any of this personal stuff – her mental/physical health issues, but Annie is adamant about putting her story on the table for all to see and do with as they will. If a new person shows up and contributes on this forum, it’s only a matter of time before Annie will spill her sad story again. I’ve been here long enough to see this pattern. I’m sorry for her sad case, but it doesn’t endow her subjective experiences with any more credibility – indeed the opposite strikes me as true. I won’t accuse her of any more mental or physical health issues than what she parades here for all to see.

            I’ll reiterate that I have never told anyone here (to the best of my memory), that they were lying about any particular subjective experience. Why would I? Do people lie about having OBE’s? Maybe so; it hadn’t occurred to me. I’m more inclined to think the subject had some sort of mental experience that wasn’t real, rather than to suspect they made it all up – but since you mention it, that’s possible. However, if you are going to make the claim that I have said other people on this forum lied about their subjective experiences, then you need to dig through miles of archives to find evidence for that, because I have no such recollection and it wouldn’t be my default response. Yes, I question the veracity of those claims – I know too much about the brain to accept subjective evidence as very useful evidence. That does not mean that I think these people are lying about their experiences. if it’s “mean” to tell them that I give their subjective experiences little or no credibility, that’s tough. Deal with it. The science is on my side. I don’t Kumbaya.

          9. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            Wow! You go, girl!

        2. Jethro Avatar
          Jethro

          No, but you know that. All spirituality exists somewhere between the ears and a view inches above. It reminds me of Peter pan, “Second star to the right and straight on ’til morning.”…. I love that one!

      2. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        “If you ​have the wherewithal to keep taking him on, more power to you. I will interject here and there to your posts as I always have, and wish you the best.”

        I wouldn’t leave you alone with that thing. That would be heartless.
        At the moment they have tuned “Pat” all the way down to pouting mode. They are evaluating the situation. Lying somewhat low for a while. They are exposed, but won’t give up just like that. Too much time and money spent already. A shred of hope is all they need to keep it going.
        “Pat” was strong on copyrights. Just as expected, as being part of their job here, to defend and promote the selfish point of view, always.
        “Pat” had, so happens, a long conversation with a priest laying around, about Pascal’s wager. He pasted it in under your post on the matter. Only 1600 words! Hand on heart, after two lines and I, was asleep. I swear to you, like killing-yourself-boring 🙂
        But this is the selfish bunch; they are not that very deep or advanced, but altogether primitive. When quality is beyond their means, obviously, they think quantity would weigh up for it. They don’t understand better, those poor bastards. And just how they think regarding arms too, as a show of strength, when in fact it only reveals them as scared little babies shitting their pants. But, of course, beyond their capacity to grasp. Primitive and selfish is the same thing.

        1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
          Spiritual_Annie

          I’m not surprised at what I gleaned from Jethro’s side of the conversation that Patrick got on him about attribution. He is a stickler for details and what he sees as proper.

          1600 words? Wow. And it was a reposting of an argument with a priest he’d already written? I must have picked up on that energetically, having actually said “nearly cut-and-paste” in my reply to you. Apparently some of it’s actual cut-and-paste.

          You’re not alone, either. I’m still here, I’ve just made the decision to change the way I interact (or don’t) with him. It’s about setting healthy boundaries for myself, not an indication of his somehow being right or my backing off of supporting those who oppose him.

          Personally, I’m enjoying my reading here much more now.

          Love and Blessings Always,
          ~Annie

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “Apparently some of it’s actual cut-and-paste.”

            Very much so. That’s how they operate. A vast database and software that reorganize, putting lines of general human feelings in between. Then the operator looks it over, have it personalized with a few more words, usually at the end, and off it goes.
            Any post of theirs, of some length, is put together in this way. Also being what people on other blogs has noticed.

    3. Kristen Avatar
      Kristen

      Life is crazy huh?? Remember I said I will only speak with people personally, not when they speak like a robot or machine!!!!!!!!!! There have been quite a few in here, two ‘aliens’ most the time, plus often govt officials obverving as this site and Neale used to be incredibly anti government. One ‘non human’ in here sometimes speaks as a good guy, Im just glad they dont see me as a threat, they can be incredibly dangerous.
      Good on you for following your instincts rather than brushing it off.
      This is our life now…everyones life, and the internet is dangerous…’evil’ aliens are almost powered by electricity, they need to be around electronics a lot, the internet sustains them and is shocking, many many ‘good’ pages are the opposite, often with a dark background and white print, lots of religious etc sites have them. I have them all blocked at home, the kiddy block for religion, new age etc.
      Take care Sam Sam I Am

      1. Sam Avatar
        Sam

        Thank you for telling, Kristen. I’ve been kinda waiting for you to do so. I know you have the ability to sense things too.

        1. Kristen Avatar
          Kristen

          Ive been a target before, on Neales old ‘book club’ The Spirit Forge, computer viruses etc and they blatantly lied about who were moderators, plus were prolific hackers and ‘snoops’.
          I actually think its all pointless but theres obviously a lot more to it than you and I would ever want to know, just ignore them, and him, let fools be fools.

          1. Sam Avatar
            Sam

            “I dont know the agenda though, or the point. Its a bit like a chase…Neales God is deceptive in implying its the same God as scripture, its definately not, so everything CwG is already misleading and lie based, then ones like Patricks It target Neales sites….another carriage on the train against the scripture God. So I dont actually see Neale as one of the good guys at all. Especially his lies telling people there are no consequences from above. Thats evil!”

            Bit like a chase? I wouldn’t say that. It’s easily explained. Well, how I see it anyway. You have a personal hang-up there I see, which brings out the temper 🙂 Don’t bite my head off, ok? 🙂 But that indicates something very subjective, something regarding very specifically you.
            One specific thorn is often the cause of such a view. And if it was to be “surgically” removed, the view would change. Well, again, how I see it anyway 🙂

          2. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Hey…it was all said with a smile…no issues or agenda, Im well over that, wouldnt be in here if I had issues! Lifes too short for issues. Ive told Neale that. I just think its dangerous and mean to tell people there are no consequences or judgements, no matter who tells people that.
            And zero temper unless someone tried to harm my kids.
            Xx

  21. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
    Spiritual_Annie

    I have been “off” in my mood today, but it didn’t strike me as to why until I read my midday news update. I probably saw reference to it yesterday, but ignored it.

    Today is the anniversary of the shooting at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando. In honor of those who passed over and those who loved them, and to honor my commitment to tell the truth to everyone about everything (which I recently referred to in a comment), I felt drawn here to say that this anniversary deeply saddens me.

    As a bisexual woman, I walk through this life knowing that there are people who would prefer to see me dead than in a relationship with another woman, regardless of what love we feel for each other. One of my exes is a female-to-male transman, and I know there are people who would prefer to see him dead than enter a man’s bathroom.

    It also strikes me that, during Pride Month and near the anniversary of the Orlando massacre, our President spoke at a religious gathering where he personally praised two men who are actively anti-gay, one of whom still promotes conversion therapy, which is nothing less than torture.

    So, I have this to say: Sexual orientation and gender identity are part of who we really are when we are born into this life. They’re not mental illnesses or birth defects of which we need to be cured. We are part of the vivid spectrum of humanity, in all its glorious expressions of Divinity.

    All we want are the same inalienable and legal rights and protections afforded anyone else. All we long for is the acceptance by family, friends and society, who can look beyond orientation and gender to see us as the fully human and Divine beings we truly are.

    All we want is for there to never have to be another Stonewall, or another Orlando.

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    1. Kristen Avatar
      Kristen

      Hi Annie,
      I’ll admit Im a trans phobe seriously, a phobia I have, as with any form of cross dressing, even a guy in a dress as a joke or with make up on. I seriously either have to fight back vomit, fight back flying into a rage or having a panic attack. I even struggle seeing females dressing masculine.
      It took me years to work out why, as it feels so mean and isn’t my business what people do. I finally worked out that lots of things freak me out…its my brain. With high functioning autism things are either black or white, if grey I have to work it out and sort it so I can move on mentally. My brain tells me girls are girls and look like girls, and boys are boys and look like boys, I cant process anything inbetween.
      Moving stumps freak me out…because its a thing on a body that should have other parts attached, yet Im fine with stumps until they move. My brain just cant ‘get it’ and my instincts are to run. Cant handle masks, balaclavas, those bald cats, hedgehogs with lost quills, elephant trunks, over flexible ‘rubber’ people, obese bodies where i can see rolls (extra body parts) and a lot! Its all visually like a foreign language that my brain completely rejects because conflicting information is already well and truly programmed in.
      Just telling you this because although its not my business, and are well aware orientations etc are not a choice, that there are possibly a lot of people like me that personally react for whatever reason, although wouldnt be mean, its kind of how we are made, just as others are made different as well.
      Take care,
      K

      1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
        Spiritual_Annie

        Kirsten,

        I don’t have a problem with people who have reactions like yours, or even people who react because they’re encountering something new to them. I see it as akin to a child who stares or has questions they blurt out because they’re curious or don’t understand. It’s those who pass moral judgements, especially without informing themselves, that I take issue with.

        My ex wouldn’t ​be mistaken for a female anymore, and in fact his birth certificate and license have been changed to male, but he’s farther along in transitioning.

        I appreciate your honesty. We are all unique, and our reactions reflect that uniqueness.

        Love and Blessings Always,
        ~Annie

        1. Kristen Avatar
          Kristen

          No one would know my reactions, I dont stare or treat anyone any different, I just freak out internally.
          Xx

  22. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
    Spiritual_Annie

    I was going through my morning readings and found this interesting bit in an article written by Beth Singlar of the Faraday Institute for Science and Religion, published in Aeon’s online magazine:

    Blaise Pascal, the 17th-century French mathematician and theologian, proposed that, since we cannot know of the creator’s existence through human reason, we can only take a bet. If we choose to believe, and if God does in fact exist, then we receive eternal happiness, and a mere nothing if we are wrong. By contrast, if we choose to not believe, then we risk eternal damnation if God does in fact exist – and again, only nothingness if we are correct and he does not. So weighing the respective possibilities of eternal torment against eternal salvation, the best course of action is to act as if God is real, and either receive his blessings or nothing at all.

    Just food for thought…

    Love and Blessings Always,
    ~Annie

    1. Patrick Gannon Avatar
      Patrick Gannon

      I posted this response to a priest, just a few days ago, in response to his assertion of Pascal’s ridiculous wager. Some of this response will not be pertinent here as its specific to Catholicism, but the main points apply. Pascal’s wager most certainly does not apply to the New Age god and he would be appalled at any attempt to use it to prove any god but the Christian god. Further I fail to see any applicability here, given that Neale says his god told him that there is no such thing as eternal torment. Is Annie suggesting that eternal torment is real? Here’s my response to the priest:

      “Let’s talk about your Pascal Wager argument. You mention a 50/50 shot at success for a medication to save my friend. We don’t get anything like that with religion. Researchers have identified at least 3000 global gods and religions, and that doesn’t include the thousands of offspring from many of them, including the Catholic Church which has generated more offspring than a field full of rabbits going at it with all the gusto they can muster! We have a 1/3000 shot just for the major gods, not a 50/50 shot. There is exactly the same evidence for all of those gods – ZERO. Any one of them, one not included in the 3000, or none at all, might be the reality, and choosing the wrong one may result in the same punishment as choosing none at all; which might actually be rewarded, if one is supposed to use the tools one of the gods gave us. There are many more ways to choose the wrong god.
      .
      Pascal’s Wager is about total self-interest, maximizing personal gains. People are willing to hurt other people in order to maximize their self-interest, if they believe that this god wants them to do so. It implies that people who are completely evil, can be rewarded for believing the right thing. As you know, if you’ve ever actually read the entire bible, Yahweh commands his people to do all sorts of evil things – genocide, slavery, rape, etc. Surely it can be argued that it would be more moral to endure eternal punishment, than to obey a god’s command to hurt other people.
      .
      What about children who die before having to make this choice – what happens to them? In the Catholic Church, as long as they are baptized they go to heaven, right? (If they aren’t baptized, then they go to Hell – which confirms that the Catholic god is evil to begin with). If they go to heaven, then isn’t the prudent thing, to kill your children while they are young in order to ensure that they go to heaven? Isn’t that the most important thing one can do for one’s children to ensure their salvation?
      .
      Obviously if Yahweh-Jesus is willing to punish people for all eternity simply for failing to believe the right thing, this being cannot be “good” as we understand that word. Since no particular god has a monopoly on goodness, there’s no reason to assume that Yahweh-Jesus is the correct god. Indeed being in Hell might be preferable to being at the beck and call of an evil god!
      .
      As mentioned above, there are thousands of gods and religions and no more evidence for the Christian god than any other god. In fact, the Christian god insists that we only worship him, while other gods, are not so demanding. It might be better to worship all those other gods just a little bit, rather than worship just one god, a lot. That would certainly improve your odds that you selected the right god. Without any compelling, objective evidence for any of these gods, there is no way to know which one to select, so better to select as many as you can to improve your chances, and these other gods are not going to punish you for worshipping more than just one god.
      .
      Next we have the problem of a soul. There is, of course, no evidence for this, and for it to exist and to have the ability to affect the particles in our natural world, which it would have to do in order for “miracles” to occur, would mean that everything we have learned about physics is wrong, and every experiment ever performed somehow produced incorrect results. A 100 years ago, we couldn’t have said this with confidence, but today, we are very confident of this. But can an immaterial soul be hurt in Hell?
      .
      I confess to being unsure of the whole mechanics of heaven and hell. We have a soul – but it is a physical body that is to be tortured, right? Yet the physical body is being consumed by worms, or gone back to the elements following cremation. So Yahweh-Jesus has to give us a new body, specifically so he can torture it? So we can feel pain? Is that the way it works? And you think I should worship this god?
      .
      The real problem though is belief. I cannot turn a switch and suddenly say, “I believe in Marc Solomon’s god.” I know too much to just “change my mind,” no matter how much I might want to. Oh, I could say the words – is that enough – but presumably your god would know I’m lying. Most non-believers are stuck. They can’t just turn a switch and believe. I can’t just wake up one morning and say, “I believe in unicorns – pink polka-dotted unicorns, and I believe this with my heart, my soul and my mind.” That’s not any more possible than waking up and believing in your god.
      .
      How do we know heaven will be any better? After a few million years, the joy of heaven or the pain of Hell will eventually become, “Meh,” just another day in eternity.
      .
      Is your god an egomaniac? Pascal’s wager assumes your god will be impressed by people who believe things just to avoid Hell. What does an all-powerful god gain from such an allegiance from puny humans? It would be like having allegiance from ants to a human god, wouldn’t it? Isn’t your god at least as distant from me, as I am from ants? I have no egotistical need for the ants to worship me, but your god it seems, is very insecure and requires such allegiance.
      .
      How do we know that your god isn’t perverse, and wouldn’t just damn us to Hell for his own amusement? What do we have to ensure that doesn’t happen – that he isn’t just playing games with us, pulling our strings, hardening hearts, etc. (as he does in the bible). What if it turns out there are more than one god? Don’t you run the risk of antagonizing several other gods, by worshipping just one of them?
      .
      What if your god changes his mind? What if we believe the right thing, he lets us in, then says, “SNAP! Joke’s on you. Off to the burner you go!” How do we know he won’t do this? In the OT, he’s incredibly capricious.
      .
      What if your god is the one who inspired the Parable of the Talents, and he punishes those who bury their talents in the garden (talents such as intelligence, logic, critical thinking, skepticism, etc.). This is probably one of the strongest arguments for me. If there is a god, and if this god is good, then this god is going to want us to use the tools we evolved. I go along with Michael Shermer in saying to some god, if there turns out to be one: ”Lord, I did the best I could with the tools you granted me. You gave me a brain to think skeptically and I used it accordingly. You gave me the capacity to reason and I applied it to all claims, including that of your existence. You gave me a moral sense and I felt the pangs of guilt and the joys of pride for the bad and good things I chose to do. I tried to do unto others as I would have them do unto me, and although I fell far short of this ideal far too many times, I tried to apply your foundational principle whenever I could. Whatever the nature of your immortal and infinite spiritual essence actually is, as a mortal finite corporeal being I cannot possibly fathom it despite my best efforts, and so do with me what you will.”
      —Michael Shermer
      .
      I think I’ve pretty completely disassembled your Pascal Wager argument, and there’s much more if we are to get really esoteric. We can dig into Bayesian probabilities, etc., but I can’t see where Pascal’s wager offers any help at all.
      So which Hell am I going to? Where is it? And how will I experience pain?”

      I ask him that last question at the end of every post because he refuses to address the question of why the Church translated four very different words to the pagan word “Hell.”

      Pascal’s wager is pretty easily debunked, and there are some YouTube videos that do a much better job of it than I did. But again, the question… why bring up a Christian concept that involves an eternal torment in a forum about a god who has no such concept? Annie said she was raised Catholic, and it’s hard to get those neural paths wiped clean so they can be overwritten, as I am well aware. Are there some vestiges remaining…. and I’d address these points specifically to her, but as we know, she’s childishly blocked me, so I have to refer to her in third person.

      1. Kristen Avatar
        Kristen

        Wow…..you just said ‘we have a soul’. Thats a turn around. Baby steps I guess.

        1. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
          Spiritual_Annie

          He did?!?? *passes out in shock*

          1. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            I know…just when I was already in shock he has a girlfriend.
            I now believe in miracles.
            Xx

          2. Spiritual_Annie Avatar
            Spiritual_Annie

            Yeah, I chuckled at your reaction when I read it, about the girlfriend.

            So, Patrick’s made a believer out of you? Oh, he’ll hate hearing that one! ?

          3. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Heck, he inspires me to be a Catholic….and thats my idea of hell!
            Maybe hes mastered reverse psychology….actually a Priest trying to drive us to church just to get away.
            Haha.

          4. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            Are you enjoying your gossip? It’s so spiritual.

          5. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Hahaha, Ive told you how boring those long threads are.
            Gossip….nope. Just common old karma.
            Spiritual…nope, Ive never said that. I dont do new age stuff, dont meditate etc. Im a physical person more than anything.
            Xx

        2. Patrick Gannon Avatar
          Patrick Gannon

          I did not say we have a soul. Why would you say that? Why would you intentionally misrepresent what I said? Don’t you abide by Jewish law: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour”

          I said, “Next we have the problem of a soul. There is, of course, no evidence for this, and for it to exist and to have the ability to affect the particles in our natural world, which it would have to do in order for “miracles” to occur, would mean that everything we have learned about physics is wrong, and every experiment ever performed somehow produced incorrect results.”

          I went on to speak of a hypothetical soul – the one that Annie’s post suggests will go to Hell if I don’t believe in the Christian God by taking Pascal’s Wager. I still can’t believe she posted that here, given that it is heretical to the New Spirituality religion she practices.

          1. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Your sentence states “we have a soul..but it is a physical body or something’ or similar.
            Hell is a state of mind, for which generally changes to our physical life are the catalysts for….most religions speak of it, and state the things that will result in this as a consequence. I havnt read what Annie said, but I think its great to inform anyone that its a real thing, nothing to do with Christians.
            Its in every teaching there is, even CwG and new age stuff. How often do people state ‘their life is hell, thats their idea of hell, they feel like shite, they are despondant, depressed when its not a brain depression etc.
            Its always a good thing to warn people and speak the truth, it happens constantly.

          2. Patrick Gannon Avatar
            Patrick Gannon

            If you read my full post, you know I was speaking hypothetically and argumentatively to the priest.

          3. Kristen Avatar
            Kristen

            Thats not your way or game…your way is to take things out of context and interpret things however you want. Your hands typed the words….own it!!
            Its too boring for me to read, Im at work, its not bedtime thanks, I need to stay awake.
            Remember you asked for a food fight a month or so ago, and I accepted the challenge. Pettiness, rotten eggs etc are all acceptable weapons.
            You’re so easy to beat.

          4. Patrick Gannon Avatar