The true purpose of romantic relationships

GOD: Let Me address Myself specifically, and at length, to human love relationships—these things which continue to give you such trouble!

When human love relationships fail (relationships never truly fail, except in the strictly human sense that they did not produce what you want), they fail because they were entered into for the wrong reason.

(“Wrong,” of course, is a relative term, meaning something measured against that which is “right” —whatever that is! It would be more accurate in your language to say “relationships fail—change—most often when they are entered into for reasons not wholly beneficial or conducive to their survival.”)

Most people enter into relationships with an eye toward what they can get out of them, rather than what they can put into them.

The purpose of a relationship is to decide what part of yourself you’d like to see “show up,” not what part of another you can capture and hold.

There can be only one purpose for relationships—and for all of life: to be and to decide Who You Really Are.

It is very romantic to say that you were “nothing” until that special other came along, but it is not true. Worse, it puts an incredible pressure on the other to be all sorts of things he or she is not.

Not wanting to “let you down,” they try very hard to be and do these things until they cannot anymore. They can no longer complete your picture of them. They can no longer fill the roles to which they have been assigned. Resentment builds. Anger follows.

Finally, in order to save themselves (and the relationship), these special others begin to reclaim their real selves, acting more in accordance with Who They Really Are. It is about this time that you say they’ve “really changed.”

It is very romantic to say that now that your special other has entered your life, you feel complete. Yet the purpose of relationship is not to have another who might complete you; but to have another with whom you might share your completeness.

Here is the paradox of all human relationships: You have no need for a particular other in order for you to experience, fully, Who You Are, and. . .without another, you are nothing.

This is both the mystery and the wonder, the frustration and the joy of the human experience. It requires deep understanding and total willingness to live within this paradox in a way which makes sense. I observe that very few people do.

Most of you enter your relationship-forming years ripe with anticipation, full of sexual energy, a wide open heart, and a joyful, if eager, soul.

Somewhere between 40 and 60 (and for most it is sooner rather than later) you’ve given up on your grandest dream, set aside your highest hope, and settled for your lowest expectation—or nothing at all.

The problem is so basic, so simple, and yet so tragically misunderstood: your grandest dream, your highest idea, and your fondest hope has had to do with your beloved other rather than your beloved Self. The test of your relationships has had to do with how well the other lived up to your ideas, and how well you saw yourself living up to his or hers. Yet the only true test has to do with how well you live up to yours.

Relationships are sacred because they provide life’s grandest opportunity—indeed, its only opportunity—to create and produce the experience of your highest conceptualization of Self. Relationships fail when you see them as life’s grandest opportunity to create and produce the experience of your highest conceptualization of another.

Let each person in relationship worry about Self—what Self is being, doing, and having; what Self is wanting, asking, giving; what Self is seeking, creating, experiencing, and all relationships would magnificently serve their purpose—and their participants!

Let each person in relationship worry not about the other, but only, only, only about Self.

This seems a strange teaching, for you have been told that in the highest form of relationship, one worries only about the other. Yet I tell you this: your focus upon the other—your obsession with the other—is what causes relationships to fail.

What is the other being? What is the other doing? What is the other having? What is the other saying? Wanting? Demanding? What is the other thinking? Expecting? Planning?

The Master understands that it doesn’t matter what the other is being, doing, having, saying, wanting, demanding. It doesn’t matter what the other is thinking, expecting, planning. It only matters what you are being in relationship to that.

The most loving person is the person who is Self-centered.


Editor’s Note: If you would like to COMMENT on the above excerpt, please scroll down to the bottom of the ancillary copy below.

If Conversations with God has touched your life in a positive way, you are one of millions of people around the world who have had such an experience. All of the readers of CWG have yearned to find a way to keep its healing messages alive in their life. One of the best ways to do that is to read and re-read the material over and over again — and we have made it convenient and easy for you to do so. Come here often and enjoy selected excerpts from the Conversations with God cosmology, changed on a regular basis, so you can “dip in” to the 3,000 pages of material quickly and easily. We hope you have enjoyed the excerpt above, from Conversations with God-Book 1.


About Book-On-A-Bench…

If you believe that the messages in Conversations with God could inspire humanity to change its basic beliefs about God, about Life, and about Human Beings and their relationship to each other, leave those messages lying around.

Simply “forget” or “misplace” a copy of Conversations with God on a bench somewhere. At a bus stop, or a train station, or an airport—or actually on the bus, train, or plane. At a hairstyling salon, a doctor’s office, a chiropractor’s office, a park bench, or even just a bench on the street. Just leave a book lying around.

If everybody did this, the message of Conversations with God could “go viral” in a matter of weeks. So I invite you to participate in the Book-On-A-Bench program and spread ideas that could create a new cultural story far and wide.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

ABOUT the author of Conversations with God

Neale Donald Walsch is a modern-day spiritual messenger whose words continue to touch the world in profound ways.  With an early interest in religion and a deeply felt connection to spirituality, Neale spent the majority of his life thriving professionally, yet searching for spiritual meaning before beginning his now-famous conversation with God. His With God series of books has been translated into 27 languages, touching the lives of millions and inspiring important changes in their day-to-day living.

Neale was born in Milwaukee to a Roman Catholic family that encouraged his quest for spiritual truth. Serving as his first spiritual mentor, Neale’s mother taught him not to be afraid of God, as she believed in having a personal relationship with the divine — and she taught Neale to do the same.

A nontraditional believer, Neale’s mother hardly ever went to church, and when he asked her why, she told Neale: “I don’t have to go to church — God comes to me. He’s with me and around me wherever I am.” This notion of God at an early age would later move Neale to transcend traditional views of organized religion.

Neale grew into an insatiably curious child whose comments about life seemed to possess a wisdom beyond his years, and often caused relatives and family friends to ask, “Where does he come up with this stuff?” While attending a Catholic grade school, Neale would often pose questions in catechism class that would extend past the traditional grade school curriculum.

Finally, the parish priest invited Neale to his rectory to answer the difficult questions that he didn’t wish to address in front of the rest of the class. This meeting turned into a once-a-week visit that blossomed into an open forum in which Neale learned not to be afraid to ask questions about religion and spirituality—and also learned that his asking these types of questions did not mean that he would offend God.


Joyless spirituality is observed.
Is rigidity and anger sometimes produced by religion?

By the age of 15, Neale’s involvement with spiritually based teachings led him to observe that when people got involved in religion they too often seemed less joyful and more rigid, exhibiting behaviors of prejudice, separateness, and even anger. Neale concluded that for many people the collective experience of theology was not positive.

After graduating from high school, he enrolled at the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee, but academic life could not hold him and he dropped out of college after two years to follow an interest in broadcasting that eventually led to a full-time position at the age of 19 at a small radio station far from his Milwaukee home, in Annapolis, Maryland.

Restless by nature and always seeking to expand his opportunities for self-expression, Neale in the years that followed became a radio station program director; a newspaper reporter and, ultimately, managing editor; public information officer for one of the nation’s largest public school systems; and, after moving to the West Coast, creator and owner of his own public relations and marketing firm. Moving from one career field to another, he could not seem to find occupational satisfaction, his life was in constant turmoil, and his health was going rapidly downhill.


A life-changing accident.
A desperate questioning that touches the world.

He had relocated in Oregon as part of a change-of-scenery strategy to find his way, but Fate was to provide more than a change of location. It produced a change in his entire life. One day a car driven by an elderly gentleman made a left turn directly into his path. Neale emerged from the auto accident with a broken neck. He was lucky to escape with his life.

More than a year of rehab threw him out of work. A failed marriage had already removed him from his home, and soon he couldn’t keep even the small apartment he’d rented. Within months he found himself on the street, homeless. It took him the better part of a year to pull himself together and get back under shelter. He found, at first, modest part-time jobs, once again in broadcasting, then worked his way into full time employment and an eventual spot as a syndicated radio talk show host.

He had seen the bottom of life living outside, gathering beer and soft drink cans in a park to collect the return deposit, but now his life seemed to be on the mend. Yet, once more, Neale felt an emptiness inside. In 1992, following a period of deep despair, Neale awoke in the middle of a February night and wrote an anguished letter to God. “What does it take,” he angrily scratched across a yellow legal pad, “to make life work?”


The books that began a spiritual revolution.
The words that opened doors again.

Now well chronicled and widely talked about, it was this questioning letter that received a divine answer. Neale tells us that he heard a “voiceless” voice, soft and kind, warm and loving, that gave him an answer to this and other questions. Awestruck and inspired, he quickly scribbled these responses onto the tablet.

More questions came, and, as fast as they occurred to him, answers were given in the same gentle voice, which now seemed placed inside his head, but also seemed clearly beyond his normal thinking. Before he knew it, Neale found himself engaged in a two-way, on-paper dialogue. He continued this first “conversation” for hours, and had many more in the weeks that followed, always awakening in the middle of the night and being drawn back to his legal pad.

Neale’s handwritten notes would later become the best-selling Conversations with God books. He says that the process was “exactly like taking dictation,” and that the dialogue created in this way was published without significant alteration or editing. He also says that God is talking to all of us, all the time, and that he has come to understand that this experience is not unusual, nor does it make him in any way a special person or a unique messenger.

In addition to producing the renowned With God series, Neale has published 18 other works, as well as many video and audio programs. Available throughout the world, seven of the Conversations with God books made the New York Times bestseller list, with Conversations with God: Book 1 occupying a place on that list for more than two-and-half years. Walsch’s books have sold more than seven million copies worldwide and have been translated into 37 languages.

The With God series has redefined God and shifted spiritual paradigms across the planet. In order to deal with the enormous global response to his writings, Neale formed the Conversations with God Foundation, a nonprofit educational organization dedicated to inspiring the world to help itself move from violence to peace, from confusion to clarity, and from anger to love.


The work expands.
A movement begins.

Neale founded the School of the New Spirituality and its CWG for Parents program to bring parents the tools to share new spirituality principles of a loving, non-condemning God with their children. He also founded Humanity’s Team, with branches in over 30 countries, now promoting the concept of the Oneness of all people and of all of life.

What Neale calls his “final creation” is The Global Conversation, an Internet Newspaper dedicated to exploring day-to-day events on our planet within the context of The New Spirituality, and offering people across the globe the opportunity to not only witness the playing out of humanity’s Cultural Story in the news, but participate in re-writing that Story, through their contributions and posted comments on the newspaper’s site.

Neale’s work has taken him from the steps of Machu Picchu in Peru to the steps of the Shinto shrines of Japan, from Red Square in Moscow to St. Peter’s Square in Vatican City to Tiananmen Square in Beijing.

Everywhere he has gone—from South Africa to Norway, Croatia to The Netherlands, the streets of Zurich to the streets of Seoul—Neale has found a hunger among the people to find a new way to live; a way to co-exist, at last, in peace and harmony, with a reverence for Life Itself in all its forms, and for each other. And he has sought to help them develop a new, expanded understanding of God, of life, and of themselves that allows them to create and experience this.

(Neale Donald Walsch lives in Ashland, Oregon with his wife, the American poet Em Claire (

Please Note: The mission of The Global Conversation website is to generate an ongoing sharing of thoughts, ideas, and opinions at this internet location in an interchange that we hope will produce an ongoing and expanding conversation ultimately generating wider benefit for our world. For this reason, links that draw people away from this site will be removed from our Comments Section, a process which may delay publication of your post. If you wish to include in your Comment the point of view of someone other than yourself, please feel free to report those views in full (and even reprint them) here.
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  • Laura Pringle

    Thanks for the reminder:)

  • mewabe

    I just had a thought, so I will put it down even though it may somewhat contradict what is expressed in Neale’s commentary.

    It’s about unconditional love…we all speak about it, but what does it mean?

    We probably don’t quite know what it is, because very few among us are capable of expressing it, particularly in close, challenging relationships (friends, family, couples).

    Perhaps the fact that we cannot love unconditionally comes from the fact that we do not love ourselves unconditionally, that we do not accept ourselves as we are. The number of self-improvement courses out there seems to attest to this…

    Imagine knowing absolutely everything about another and that she (or he) knows everything about you..all the little or big “secrets”, the hidden stuff, the faults and imperfections, all the things that may cause shame, embarrassment, guilt, regrets, fears and insecurities, all of it without a single exception…and yet that person loves you, and you love her or him, perfectly, and without any reservations, without holding anything back in judgment of any kind.

    It would be very healing…yet it should start with us, and within us…no longer having this all too common dichotomy, this inner conflict between who we really are, with all our faults and imperfections, and who we aspire to be.

    Because true love does not demand perfection…it creates it.

    That’s how true love is unconditional…because it abolishes the need for any and all conditions, yet in its presence, in its light, only perfection remains, and all that we thought shamed us is restored in beauty.

    And beauty expands, and this is how we really grow…not from aspiring for more, but from total acceptance here and now.

  • mewabe

    …so, even though I agree with Neale’s message above, I need to add, to clarify my former comment:

    In the presence of true love, of non-judgmental, unconditional love, held within and also received from and given to another, change is at once totally unnecessary and immediate, because such love literally disarms the ego (defense and attack) and allows the true self to emerge spontaneously and expands without efforts, without any struggles, without even striving…

    The paradox then being that only through absolute acceptance of the self can lasting change occur.

  • Erin/IAm

    I know this relationship stuff to be truth.
    I know that ‘Freedom is the grandest gift of Love & that Love always, & all ways, seeks to give the grandest gift’.
    I know this because I live this way, & it has Never Ever failed…no matter what relationship is involved, including that of my Self.

    This freedom is not of attachment, though it is of honesty.

    Sort of like being the perfect ‘other woman’…One who avails her Self as opportunity arises, enjoys the loving embraces of the moments, then closes the door with a kiss & a smile, and goes about her life happy in the resonating aromas…hoping that the elations shared are re-shared beyond that door, but knowing that is not a worry to be held by her. This ‘other woman’ need tell no lies, need hold no promises, expects nothing, & can give anything…and indeed is usually bestowed with way more than imaginable. Life is good within & without such relationship.

    It is good to be your own ‘other woman/man’…it allows for much Amazing to flow freely.:)

  • Stefania

    I really needed to be reminded of this in this moment of my life, thanks as always 🙂

  • Buzz

    1) Truly absolute unconditional love is only possible as God, because forgiveness is negated by understanding, which is reached through awareness, and only God is omniscient. Knowing every secret, flaw and weakness about a person is impossible without having lived their life with an idetic memory. Most people don’t even know most of their own weaknesses, often due to denial.

    2) The paradox runs a lot deeper than the question suggests. It can be traced into infinity. This is the nature of how there is an exception to every rule. The root cause can never be found, identified, categorized, resisted, labelled, or eliminated. It is written into the code that creates reality, and comes from us.

    We are subconsciously trying to confuse ourselves, in an attempt to wake ourselves up to the fact that we’ve been taking it too seriously. Not just relationships, everything, all of existence. It’s all a practical joke we’re playing on ourselves, that I’m playing on myself, and every single aspect of reality is actively, passionately trying to convince me to take it seriously. Including this room. But I’m off topic.

    3) I am male. I am not sexist, it’s just that I have no context to draw on about what being female means. Please remember this as you read.

    I am single. I am very introverted. I have learnt to appreciate my own company. I do not require other people to project my ideal person onto them.

    I do desire the company of others, especially female, however I will not allow people to attach themself to me like human parasites. I am comfortable with cooperation, but would rather be independent than take on a dependent just for the company.

    I see women as looking for the impossible partner. I am expected to be sure of my identity, but not egotistical. Impossible. … proud, and humble. Impossible. Trusting, and jealous. Impossible. Versatile, and dedicated. Impossible. A financial provider, organiser of romance, etc, and be spontaneous. Impossible. I have all this pressure forced on me, and expected to hold it together, and have a relaxed, easy going attitude. Impossible. I are expected to be perfect, and accept that my partner is not. Impossible. A woman is entitled to infinite double standards and hypocrisy, and I am supposed to make logical sense of her. Impossible.

    So why would I want to be in the company of this evil? It’s a paradox, but the question answers this, sorta. “In the absence of what I am not, what I am is not.” – NDW

    I will never be perfect. We all know that is impossible. Therefore, for me to seek physical perfection is insane. Yet this is expected in our culture, to be attractive. Strong, yet gentle. Impossible. Intelligent, yet not a smart arse. Impossible. Famous, but not up yourself. Impossible. Rich, but not greedy, illegal, or scrooge-like tight, penny pincher. Impossible.

    Attractive people are not attractive to each other for this reason. Love is a battlefield, relationships are a contractual business deal, and anything that goes wrong is dealt with by lawyers.

    Unattractive people are unattractive because they have deep insecurities about not being attractive, and everything is taken as an insult.

    I know this sounds like a female gender role bashing tirade, but I’m not sexist. Men do most of this stuff too, all of it projections of how people want to see others around them. The question I have, is:
    If I’ve stopped forcing my judgements on others, yet I’m still being judged by others for being imperfect in every way, am i forced to choose between taking on a leech or accept I’ll be alone the rest of my life?
    Is my aforementioned awareness of their expectation of the impossible man resulting in my expectation of their expectations? If so, what do I do?

  • Buzz

    Forgot to mention, we are to be the decisive, headstrong agressor male archetype, and the caring, compassionate, nurturing, yielding, ideal stay at home father material. Impossible. It is such a confusing time to be male, and this is reflected in modern American sitcoms (not just Hollywood).

    All of this was caused by the well meaning, yet brutal, feminist equal rights movement, especially male sympathizers / supporters like Mewabe (who’s in denial). The evidence in his own words is available at the following link redirecting within this site.

    I think what they really wanted was for the violent abuse to stop, and instead it became about equality as in sameness, as though gender is irrelevant (eg. workplace rights), everyone should be androgynous, and somehow this would be the magic bullet to kill all forms of conflict.

    Question of the week archive. Thread dated Oct 14, 2012, currently with 66 comments, as Mewabe argues with Your XL ansy sah, and I try to keep the discussion within known facts.

    Plz understand Mewabe, this is not an attack on you. Nothing wrong with being a feminist, in fact modern culture encourages it, so go with the flow. I need to use your point of view to demonstrate my point:

    The parameters within which males define themselves has become blurred, creating confusion, which often leads to frustration, which then leads to lots of unhealthy emotions, and all of the actions that spawn from these emotions are illegal, so we use drugs to suppress this inner conflict, which funds Big Pharma, and is the reason for the Colorado marijuana legalization. Anything that mellows us out is good, even the unhealthy ones. Hence the thread up at the moment on this.


  • Neale Walsch

    Wow. Somebody answer Buzz, above, right now. His is a remarkable post. Remarkable for its courage and transparency. Accurate or inaccurate in his conclusions and views, his transparency is amazing and admirable. Somebody, hurry…write him an answer! After some of you have, I will. But I don’t want to preempt what some of you might have to say here…

  • mewabe

    Buzz, I have noticed something…you ask questions, but you do not really have any questions…you already have it figured out. I know you are trying to draw people into a conversation…but it is not a straightforward way of doing it…you have to say what you mean and mean what you say, not just play intellectual fencing…I am saying this in a friendly way 🙂

    As far as the unconditional love of which I wrote, I used the word “imagine”, indicating that such a perfect and total knowledge of another would be otherworldly, not really possible in this reality. I was inviting others to try to use their imagination to feel what it would be like, to be so perfectly accepted.

    The point was that we should accept ourselves in this manner, again, the paradox being that when we do, the dynamics of growth and change come spontaneously into play and produce lasting results, as opposed to struggling…to attempting to change by “pulling ourselves up by our own shoe laces” and through judgment, which is an endless battle that cannot be won as the self is thus divided inwardly.

    Loving another unconditionally is of course impossible until we accord this love to ourselves…and then can be done not by knowing every detail about another, but but remaining open to the reality that no matter what, this other person will remain innocent in our eyes, that we will not judge anything ever.

    And this is possible…because when we no longer judge and fear ourselves, we no longer judge and fear others.

    On the other hand, you can bet that every time we dislike or judge a particular trait in another, this specific dislike reflects a dislike we have of ourselves for the same or similar trait, whether we are fully conscious of it or not (mostly not).

    Buzz, in your last sentence, you mention no longer judging others, then “taking on a leech”…isn’t this a judgement?

    Now…are you afraid of being needy? (It’s a friendly question, no meant to offend).

    I assume that Neale’s mention of being centered in the self also implies knowing thyself…without which no other knowledge is possible.

  • mewabe

    Buzz, here is my answer:

    I do not define myself as male in relation to social and cultural roles…as a matter of fact, being an artist is not considered a typical male activity.

    I only need to define myself as male in relationship to a female…just as night can only be defined in relationship to daylight. Not in relation to her role, but to her BEING. There is a huge difference. I am very fortunate in having met a woman who does not believe in traditional roles either.

    Social and cultural roles mean absolutely nothing to me, so I may not be qualified to enter this conversation and answer you. As a matter of fact I reject all roles, all expectations (even what is expected of an artist), all social norms, and have done so since I was a teenager (a “rebel” you might say). It comes with being creative in my case, I cannot follow any beaten path, I have an intense aversion to them, and I try to make my life my art as well (my own unique expression).

    The equality of which you speak is a given, as far as I am concerned…it is even ludicrous to talk about it, and insulting to women and to all human beings to still have to debate it in this century.

    You talk of sameness…In my experience, we are all humans. Apart from reproductive functions and some hormonal differences, all social roles and cultural expectations are just that: social and cultural choices, made long ago, at the dawn of history. Women are perfectly capable of being competitive and aggressive, and men to be gentle and nurturing.

    You speak of confusion…because you define yourself as male according to social norms, and roles are changing, so you feel that your maleness is taken away.

    But you are experiencing the effects of conditioning, of living an illusion engendered by society…nothing can take anything away from you. You can express aggression and competitiveness anytime you feel, if this is in your nature, without doing it destructively.

    Go play squash for 2 hours and work out a tremendous sweat with another competitive male…that should hold you for a day or two, and it’s fun.

    If you want to be gentle and nurturing, and sensitive, you can be that too…if that’s in your nature. This will not take your masculinity away either.

    Just be who you are…to do this, you will find, sooner or later, that you need to discard at least some of the old conditioning…because human nature, including gender, cannot be confined in a box. or else it suffocates…and leads to, guess what ? Abuse and violence.

    As a matter of fact it may be because most men are not allowing themselves to be fully human (to be sensitive, emotional, and to feel other feelings beside fear and anger) that they have become walking time bombs ready to explode at the first opportunity, and hurt others.

    See the paradox?

  • mewabe

    Another note Buzz, and I know this will defuse the conversation, not being conceptual but simple common sense.

    You speak of what you perceive to be the expectations of women. These may or may not be true, depending on where you live and according to your own subjective lenses.

    But let’s say, for the sake of argument, that some of it is true, that because roles are changing huge contradictory expectations are common place…that some men are expecting women to serve them as in the old days while contributing financially, to be successful in their career yet not to such an extent that they would make more money and bruise their male egos…that men are expecting their woman to be intelligent but not more intelligent, educated but not more educated, as the male ego would not survive it either, etc….that women expect men to be all you described in your comment.

    Let’s pretend all this is common place…the key word is common. The point is, you are intelligent. What you describe may, or may not, be true of the mainstream population. It is as if I said I can’t have male friends because all men only want to talk about football/baseball, politics or their car engine, none of which I care about. That may or may not be true of the mainstream…

    But since you are intelligent and perhaps different, raise your sight above the mainstream…you know you can find an intelligent and different woman, someone who resonates with you! Be who you are and you will attract the right person.

    On the other hand if you are afraid of being who you are, you will only attract confusion.

    So…why are you seemingly stopping yourself by putting limitations all over your mind and your life? (or so it appears…I don’t know you and don’t mean to be presumptuous…I am just talking at the level of ideas, don’t take anything too personally).

  • Steve Bolas

    Re Buzz’s comments – I think you are setting yourself up for a fall. Isn’t the key to any relationship the ability to compromise, so long as you do not compromise the most important thing of all – self? Surely you view yourself as more than a stereo typical male?

    Steve (Gold Coast – Australia)

  • Buzz

    I don’t know what sort of personality characteristics I identify with. I’ve taken these contradictory expectations into my divided personality, creating confusion at the deepest possible levels of my beingness.
    For example I identify as male sometimes, androgynous other times. I really am impossible to understand. Because I am able to see things from every possible point of view, and because complete agreement is the fastest way to terminate a conversation or head into boredom territory, I use antagonism and devil’s advocacy to stimulate myself and the room / person. Sometimes I judge my audience as too tolerant and its still boring, so I turn up the juice. Other times my audience is hypersensitive to antagonism and I get called a variety of insults. Everyone is different.

    The point is that none of the perspectives I portray define me. My sense of identity (another paradox) is sometimes rather loose, indescribable, and yet when arguing a point I can give the impression I have an ego bigger than this universe, so self assured, self centered, self esteemed, that people give up trying to make their point.

    I am a walking paradox, sometimes so much I wonder if I even exist. Theoretically my whole life could be a dream, and I could wake up with the most fantastic “ah ha” moment at any time, in which case what I am being, doing and having in this life is completely irrelevant. If this were the case, and nothing I do matters, I would probably try all the things depicted in Groundhog Day and eXistenZ. Are my experiences real? This appeals to the antagonist in me.

    On the other hand, does it even matter if reality is real or not? We know we can’t prove it’s an illusion from within the illusion, and there are lots of reasons to believe it’s real, and almost everyone believes reality is real, so why not go with the flow? Deep down I like conformity and cooperation.

    Just to add an extra dimenion to my confusion, most of the people here have read CWG, and understand it’s all illusory, thereby creating a role reversal. To conform and cooperate is to agree it’s illusory, as the antagonist screams in my other ear “look around. How can you have such distrust in yourself to suspect reality is a lie?”

    Because of my internal division and versatility I am unable to support a dependent personality. Yes, this is a judgement on both them and I. Plz enter judgemental aspect of paradox …

    There are many definitions of the word “judge”. Most of the ones relevant to this thread use synonyms in the definition like opinion, infer, suppose, perspective, deem, consider, interpret, and regard. Is it possible we’ve been too judgemental toward the word judgement? (That deserves to be emboldend and underlined). It is part of our experience as human beings to interact with our world, form opinions, interpret events and circumstances, and suppose likely outcomes. This cannot be turned off.

    What you are suggesting is that we should form the right kind of judgements according to your brand of reality. But my reality, illusory or not, is vastly different, even if we were next door neighbors or family or whatever (relax, we’re not). In most cases this means positive, optimistic, hopeful, empowering, compassionate, supportive, tolerant judgements, which are all nice at times. “Everything in moderation, including moderation.” – Petronius’s Paradox

    “The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle.” – Stapp Ironical Paradox

    You do understand that describing yourself as rebelious to social norms is contradictory to your feminist attitudes, right? What you’re really doing is picking and choosing what you agree with, and your tendancy to fail to conform implies a fussyness. That puts you near the end of the scale. Now imagine someone so far to the other extreme toward indifference that they need to exist at both ends simultaneously in order to try new and different attitudes and charachteristics and see what resonates. I’ve been trying this over 25 years, with no clear results. “Logical thought is hard for humans and easy for computers, but picking a screw from a box of screws is an unsolved problem.” – Moravec’s Paradox. Which screw do I want?

  • Buzz

    Despite, or perhaps because of, my intelligence and curiosity, I am rendered inept at the most fundamental level of existence. Only by taking on the personality of another through my empathic abilities or devil’s advocate can I achieve anything, however if I stay with that personality style too long I get caught up in my story, and egotistical identity, and become that person. Sometimes I wish I was stupid, or totally accepting of everything thereby lacking curiosity. These traits are both a gift and a curse. However when I try personalities that include these alternative traits, I feel like an unfulfilled sheeple drone, yet calm and at peace. Heads I win and lose, tails I win and lose. Every choice is both a win and a loss.

    Poignantly, both the concept of choice, and the idea of fate / destiny / karma, are both part of this illusion. We are at choice when we say we are, and only because we think / believe we are.

  • Buzz

    Paradox definition from Wikipedia:
    ” A paradox is a statement or group of statements that leads to a contradiction or a situation which (if true) defies logic or reason, similar to circular reasoning.”

    In other words, our paradoxical existence is beyond our ability to understand, attempting to understand it is within the definition of insanity, and by factoring in what I’ve said above, all of the things we claim to want for this world and for ourselves are fundamentally impossible.

    Our ability to achieve any result is a miracle, and since lots of people are achieving lots of things, the word miracle has subsequently lost it’s strength as something special, rare, valuable. Yet to the person achieving their achievement it is very rare and valuable. Except if they are reaching their goals at an unnaturally fast pace, for example someone who has no goals. This would also seem insane. People who make insane choices appear sane, create unrealistic goals from themself to achieve, and when seen achieving them are said to understand this world encouraging others to understand it.

    This has been an example of circular reasoning that expresses many of my feelings. I know all paths lead to God, but I’m not concerned with my destination. I know that God’s love for me is absolute regardless of choices and circumstances I experience, and I know myself to be “of God”, but I’m not concerned with that ultimate aspect of my identity. It is what I am, my body, mind and soul vibrating cooperatively, but this is not my experience. I know CWG doctrine (laughs) better than most, and it cannot help me.

    I have been told I’m trying to out-think myself, and my peace comes from clearing the mind and feeling the energy of love, but this advice is unnecessary as I can be at peace whenever I like, and do frequently. This is where I experience epiphanies, but these do not help in this area.

    Every time it tries to involve me in reality and I get so caught up in the story I lose my awareness of it as an illusion. My enthusiasm to achieve something is energizing and empowering, and I forget it doesn’t matter what I do, or how well. It’s not that I fear either success, or failure, or change, or being needed, or being needy, or being neglected, or alone. However, depending on which suit I’m wearing I might be afraid of any or all of these and infinitely more.

    I am impossible, yet here I am!!

  • mewabe

    I understand some of what you are saying Buzz…what I get from you is that you are searching, perhaps because you may not feel a sense of belonging anywhere in this world. Am I mistaken?

    I identify with this:
    “The point is that none of the perspectives I portray define me. My sense of identity (another paradox) is sometimes rather loose, indescribable, and yet when arguing a point I can give the impression I have an ego bigger than this universe, so self assured, self centered, self esteemed, that people give up trying to make their point.”

    I believe that I am also guilty of these things, because I enjoy a stimulating exchange of ideas, unfortunately such thing usually scares people away unless every word is coated with powdered sugar or melted chocolate, which seems unnatural to me, unless one feels particularly sweet in the moment.

    I can also see and understand the validity of all points of view…there is a kernel of truth in everything, nothing is black and white, it’s all shades of grey within more shades of grey and reality is actually infinitely complex and intricate if we want to get serious about it.

    To make short statements about anything is ultimately counter productive and the most inept way of wasting time I have found so far on the internet…which of course I will need to end very soon, having an extremely busy life with endless projects, and in the process of changing everything in my physical environment.

    A blog is ultimately a very inadequate medium of communication, because “sound bites” cannot convey the complexity of anyone’s experience or thoughts. It can only give the impression that a person is very opinionated and limited or simplistic in his/her thinking process or glosses over issues while writing in general terms to present a perspective or belief, while missing all other aspects of an issue, aspects which, together, would form a complete and circular, or rather spherical type of reality if acknowledged. This sphere may strangely resemble the world!

    Indeed, when thinking by association rather in linear terms, we understand that all statements are incomplete unless they include all of reality…all of human and animal and earth experience…an impossibility, unless a person write a 100 000 pages book as a start, just for the introduction.

    So what do we do here instead? You and I make noises…we throw words out there, attempting to express a speck of what we experience as our truth on a particular day, while, because being by necessity incompletely expressed, it ends up sounding false. We then perhaps exchange comments with others about the incomplete statements we see all around the blog. What an absurd thing to do!

    While many agree and nod, and compliment one another, without any attempt at deepening the conversation, probably for lack of time.


    To go back to the above quoted paragraph, you may not want to define yourself, because that’s like putting a dam on a river…the water is caught and no longer flows freely…definitions are like a river dam, they stop you in your tracks. Once you are defined, you are in a box…you may put yourself in many different boxes, but they are still boxes.

    It’s funny to see how people act once they have put themselves, or society has put them, in a box. The “saint” and the “sinner” play their roles perfectly, and everyone is happy…but trouble starts for society when the “saint” act as a “sinner” and the “sinner” acts “saintly”…everyone then is disturbed and angry.

    Better to feel free, like the wind…to be like the wind, like flowing water. That’s the zen spirit by the way, of natural spontaneity.


    About illusions: if you can get to hear your inner voice, the whisper of your soul, and live according to this inner guidance, nothing that you do in life will be an illusion, even though physical life is temporal, and its only constant is change.

    Your soul is meant to sing its song, otherwise you would not be here. You have something to express, to manifest, to be…nothing else matters but being, contrary to what society teaches us (that having and doing are more important).

    We cannot hold on to anything, but the ephemerality of the world does not make it an illusion.

    Your soul only matters…not the expectations or demands of society, and not even your thoughts, unless they are coming from this deep inner well called the soul.

    Get in touch with this and you will know your being, even if you cannot define it any longer…as a matter of fact not being able to define yourself is a sure sign that you are getting in touch with your real self, getting closer to your soul! It may appear to be a loss in a social and cultural context, but it is a gain spiritually.


    PS: I am not really a “rebel”, because rebellion implies that one still defines himself in relation to society. Rebellion is just another form of slavery. The fact is, I do not define myself in this way…I am inwardly totally free of society…I only “define” myself in terms of being, in relationship to others (not necessarily their thoughts or beliefs and perceptions but their beingness) and to the earth and all its creatures and all life (to their beingness also).

    Life is all that concerns me, not ideas about life…I experience life directly, like a simple-minded person, childlike…which is the ideal state according to some spiritual paths, I heard.

    In other words I can sit under a tree, lean against the trunk and feel the presence and energy of the tree and of all life around me, and be perfectly satisfied, without struggles or efforts to gain or become or keep anything…just simple, pure presence or being…

    What else is there but noises we all make pretending to need more than just pure being? Some of these noises are beautiful, sophisticated, entertaining, even exquisite, but they are still noises as compared to what the soul is capable of holding within its eternal beingness.

  • Buzz

    Is this real, no BS?
    “… not being able to define yourself is a sure sign that you are getting in touch with your real self, getting closer to your soul! It may appear to be a loss in a social and cultural context, but it is a gain spiritually.”

    This may be the most profound thing I’ve ever seen or heard, and it was buried halfway through a post so inconspicuously I missed it first time. It wasn’t till my second read I saw the significance, and it’s the exact opposite of everything I’ve been taught to believe.

    I would very much like to generate discussion on this point alone, for some different opinions. I’m not even able to decide whether I believe or not. I’m still in shock.

  • Buzz

    I’ve been reading these words over and over for hours, between tasks, and still don’t know how to react. I am desperately hoping for opinions (for, against, indifferent, or otherwise) on this soon, but till then perhaps I could ask Mewabe to elaborate on how he reached this understanding, please….

  • Lisa

    I’m 43. And in my short time here, I’ve taken several long, hard relationship roads. Bad partner choices and a several year affair with someone so toxic to my soul that I look back now in awe of who I was then. In any case that’s a whole other story…

    In 2006, on the cusp of a serious meltdown, I began my own conversations with God (through my pen and onto the page which continue to this day) and became a Selfish person. I began to rebuild myself, rewire my thinking and reconnect with MY hopes and dreams based solely on how they would effect ME. No partners wanted, thank you. I fell in love with MY alone life and My personal achievements that came from this focus on ME.

    I realized that I didn’t NEED (or really want based on history) any human to romantically love me and became completely content with my life. And miraculously, when I stopped looking for romantic love is when my now husband gently walked into my life. An easy and effortless transition into a life with someone who is genuinely himSelf, yet appreciates my authenticity. Flaws and all. Everyday I am grateful for the differences in our human experience together.

    I’ve learned that maintaining a romantic love relationship is something that must be consciously practiced. Gratitude is the key to that for me. Gratitude for the opportunity for soul growth and for the quiet comfort that comes from appreciating that we are separate, yet on the same path.

  • Buzz

    Thanks Lisa,
    You’re being true to yourself, “and as you are liberated from your fears you unconsciously give others permission to do the same. You presence automatically liberates others.” – MW, reflections on ACIM.

    “I just want to say thank you Sir. You saved my life.” – Coach Carter


  • Lisa


    In the grander scheme of my life, thinking that my presence somehow liberates others (however slightly) is what gets me through my work days. I work in a career where perception is everything and everything is not as it seems…including me.

    Love the coach carter quote. If only everyone could see that our “playing small does not serve the world”.


  • mewabe

    Hi Buzz, yes what I wrote was real and coming from personal experience…I will try to explain, but some of the understanding is beyond words, and words are very awkward at best.

    Lisa, very strangely, I have to admit that I followed a very similar path as yours when it comes to relationships (2 marriages in my case), and only after I got to know and accept myself and gave up on the romantic idea of being made complete by another, and was actually perfectly fine alone and without any more desire for a new relationship did the perfect, “dream” partner appeared.
    Life always works in terms of paradox.

    Buzz, in my experience, the soul cannot be defined in the world’s limited terms…it is too vast, too fluid, too multidimensional. When in your soul, immersed in the deepest aspects of your being and on a constant basis, you can no longer be defined by the world either, and you neither need nor want to….you become….nothing and everything, the macrocosm and the microcosm, the past and the future, you are All and One. Words are inadequate to describe this…you have to try to understand in an intuitive way, trying to explain the soul is like trying to explain poetry or art with words, in a sense it kills it.

    I know it probably sounds too mystical and some sort of bs, but I can assure you it is not. As long as you try to define yourself in terms the world knows and understands, you are circumventing your true nature, short-circuiting yourself. Again, you are too vast to be contained. The paradox here again being that knowing who you really are implies being free from any all all definitions, liberating your being so that it can flow freely and manifest its beingness unimpeded by the world or any expectations.

    This may sound scary because human nature likes being rooted…grounded, not free-floating, and it seems to require a parameter, boundaries in order to orient itself. But your soul is naturally grounded in the universe, in the divine. As a matter of fact, again a paradox, being in this vast, seemingly undefined soul presence is the safest place to be of all, because in it you feel and know, without a doubt, your own eternity, and the fact that nothing could ever harm you but your own mind. It is also, while seemingly undefined, the truest place to be, because it is, without a doubt, who you truly are. All else are distractions.

    And so you let the mind reflect the soul…you let the soul be the center, the power, the essence and the substance of your existence, as it was meant to be because it is you. From this center of power, you can accomplish, achieve, have anything. This center is the cake…you can have any kind of icing you desire in this life, as long as you remember the icing is not the cake.

    How to get in touch with it? First you need the strong desire, then the patience…and to find your own path back to yourself, in an empirical, highly intuitive way. Using your own intuition is the key. If you want I will try to elaborate more…a little later as I have to work on some deadlines again.

  • Scott

    Hey Buzz

    Congratulations, you just had a peek at your Soul! And yes you should definitly believe it. From what I’ve read of your posts it seems to me as if you are locked into your mind so completely as if it is the only source of information availible to you. One of the problems with this is the mind is the home of the Ego ( no it’s not a dirty word ) and the Ego has no use for contact with the Soul. Yet the Soul is the only real way to stay in touch with who you really are, to experience divinity. Contact with the Soul happens intuitively, outside and beyond the mind, and to identify with your Soul is to identify with Being as Mewabe has said.

    How do you contact the Soul and stay in touch with being?

    Be still. Stop thinking. Start feeling and allow intuition to flow. Begin to separate thoughts from your mind from inspiration comming from beingness. Mewabe is right in saying that it is very difficult to define. The books ( CwG ) are so right when they say that “Feelings are the language of the Soul”. Identifying with Being, rather than identifying with “Things of this world” is something you feel and know, Not something easy to explain with words.

    The good news is, the more you move into that space of contact with Being, the easier it is to get back there again and again.

    Never give up, keep on keepín on, because you WILL get there if you really desire to do so.

    Love to you Brother Scott

  • Scott

    P.S. The sign off was suppose to read

    Love to you brother


    Not, Brother Scott ( sounds like I’m a monk or something which I’m not )

  • mewabe

    Hey Brother Scott 🙂

    It is great to know that you have experienced this as well…

    Brother Mewabe 🙂

  • mewabe

    Buzz, a quick thought:

    The voice of the soul is inspiration…Scott mentions inspiration, it is very important. Whenever you are inspired, follow this, do not let the mind stop you, even if the inspiration leads you to inconveniences or some temporary difficulties, and to some apparent losses and discomforts. These are all symptoms of shedding the unreal.

    Inspiration is your soul taking you by the hand and whispering gently…come here, come this way, follow me. Trust it, blindly, it will never lead you astray.

  • Scott

    Brother Mewabe, ( I don’t mind the tag, just didn’t want anyone to think I was an actual monk! )

    You, me and many “others” to numerous to count I’m sure. At least I hope they are too many to count.

    Dwelling in beingness means not needing to figure everything out, for you just begin to know how to live. All the questions that seemed so important, become un-important. You learn to love without condition ( which simply means expecting nothing in return ). You learn to live by giving everything you have ( because there’s no lack in beingness ). You learn to accept what is and be grateful for all there is ( because to do otherwise is madness ) You learn to live without fear and the whole world becomes a playground in which to experience life in it’s fullest sense. And you know Joy like you have never known it before.

    Yes, I do hope there are too many of us to count, for people that live out of beingness are the hope of our world.

    Namaste Scott

  • Buzz

    Exerpt analysis:
    ” When in your soul, immersed in the deepest aspects of your being and on a constant basis, you can no longer be defined by the world either, and you neither need nor want to….you become….nothing and everything, …”

    Almost everyone in the whole world, including (guessing) everyone here, has ‘a life.’ They have an identity, goals, hopes, dreams, desires, expectations, relationships, physical property, a career (or at least a job, university study program or volunteering) to keep the mind busy and distracted. I have tried all these things, but felt no bliss, no joy.

    I am now nothing, and everything, to the core of my identity. There are only a few personality characteristics left to define me. I am empathetic, curious, and intelligent.

    “… let the mind reflect the soul…you let the soul be the center, the power, the essence and the substance of your existence, as it was meant to be because it is you. From this center of power, you can accomplish, achieve, have anything.”

    Yet I am now experiencing that all I am is the soul, manifested. It is not my center, it is all there is. From this ultimate place there is nothing I desire to accomplish, achieve, or have. I know myself to be everything, so desiring anything becomes unnecessary. This place is very scary, AND an impossibly peaceful experience. Every now and then I become so sick I might die, others I feel healthier than any human being ever should.

    ” You learn to love without condition ( which simply means expecting nothing in return ). You learn to live by giving everything you have ( because there’s no lack in beingness )” I do this, and have been for a long time. I give 100 times what I receive in return, and I feel so alone with God.

    Returning to the original quote, if “… not being able to define yourself is a sure sign that you are getting in touch with your real self, …” and the soul is an impossibly complicated place that cannot be understood, why are we trying to get there?

  • Buzz

    If not expecting anything in return is unconditional love, I gotta say it’s a very anticlimactic experience.

    “Times like these you learn to live again. Times like these, you give, and give again. Times like these you learn to love again. Times like these, time, and time again.” – Foo Fighters, and words I live by, yet as I said near the top, if I try to make everyone happy, no one likes it. If I satisfy someone’s desires, and seen doing it, others get envious or jealous. This cycle repeated infinitely places enormous pressure on me to provide, to help, and I crack.

    Pressure turns coal into diamonds, but it can also shatter it to dust. I’m very sure Neale understands this, as any teacher would. When people’s expectations of you become too high, when every first time student expects instant and lasting enlightenment, some of the first words we are tempted to say in every encounter are:
    “I cannot give you what you seek. What you want can only be found within you. Now tell me … what do you want?”

  • mewabe

    “Returning to the original quote, if “… not being able to define yourself is a sure sign that you are getting in touch with your real self, …” and the soul is an impossibly complicated place that cannot be understood, why are we trying to get there?”

    Perhaps because we know there is no other “place” or state to be…as in pure, simple being…

    We don’t have to try to get there, we are it…all we need is to to let go of all the distractions, clear the static.


    I was going to ask you Buzz, at the very beginning: what is it that you want, what are you seeking? It can only be an aspect of you…a part of you that you are not yet fully experiencing and expressing.

    “Yet I am now experiencing that all I am is the soul, manifested. It is not my center, it is all there is. From this ultimate place there is nothing I desire to accomplish, achieve, or have. I know myself to be everything, so desiring anything becomes unnecessary. This place is very scary, AND an impossibly peaceful experience. Every now and then I become so sick I might die, others I feel healthier than any human being ever should.”

    As Native Americans say, the center is everywhere, in all things, not just in us. It is normal at that stage to no longer desire to play the games of the world, to feel that we are no longer involved.

    Yet we can learn to play a new game, one that is neither detached nor motivated by lack, by need, but that is free…a game for its own sake, living as the leaf dancing in the wind. What is the purpose of anything? Freedom, joy, beauty…expression…being…the goal is in the journey.

    Dance your life regardless of any outcome…sing the song of your soul no matter where it takes you…life is extremely short, it is a very short trip…be free of the world and its misplaced and dreadful sense of reality, we are here for joy, for laughs, for enjoyment, and to feel all there is to feel, to the fullest.


    Do you like nature? If so look at nature, it is forever immersed in the present, and forever renewed. Let your mind be as nature, have a new mind, at all times, here and now. Do not carry any baggage with you…let go of everything you think you need or want, and you will gain (you will be as) the universe, that holds nothing yet is everything.

    You say you feel so alone…it is not your true state, or condition. The soul is never, ever alone, unless the mind believes it is, and the mind takes over and creates the feeling of loneliness. Even your body is not alone…you interact at so many different levels with everything around you. You are connected to all life at all times. Feel it and you will feel full, and grateful.

    Again it is difficult to feel and experience life in its pure state when living within 4 walls…in a dead and artificial environment where your ideas and emotions bounce back and fester all around you.

    Go into nature away from cities and people, and let your mind and heart be cleansed by the wind, the sun, the rain. Take the time to be, let your watch and cell phone, and everything that ties you to the world, at home. Be free…Reconnect, ground yourself in the earth, through the soles of your naked feet, and feel the life of the earth through them, the heartbeat of mother earth as Indians say. Feel the life that is all around you. Open your eyes! All life is miraculous, and there is a power in all things, all things and creatures are teachers, if we can be present, still and silent long enough, if we can humble ourselves long enough, shedding all we think we are, becoming naked in heart and mind before the creation.


    You cannot make anyone happy, it is not your job as some would say, and it is not possible…but when you give, you have to do it out of compassion and love, and freely, letting go of the outcome…whether others get jealous, whether no one likes it should be of no importance, but you cannot give to others more than you give to yourself, otherwise you are out of balance, which is why you would crack.

    Also, give to those who are in real need…while realizing that their misfortune in only a temporary condition as their soul is as free as yours or anyone’s, but they may have forgotten who they are, and created specific challenges and difficulties that they think they need to experience in order to work out what they think they need to work out…they are taking a circonvoluted path, not the direct path, for whatever reason that only they can understand…perhaps guilt, which leads to self-punishment, or perhaps they are actually helping you, awakening something in you, and that may be their only purpose.


    If I was to help anyone, I would take them outdoor, in a natural place away from all distractions and all traces of civilization…and I would only tell them this: “now…just feel (your life, all life)”. There is nothing else to seek and have but being, and being means being connected, existing in direct relationship to life, all life.

    Civilized, artificial life takes this simple, this pure and powerful connection away from us…we look for it in our head, in concepts, but it is not there…it is in the earth, in the cosmos, it is where life is as it was meant to be.

  • Buzz

    Hello Mewabe,
    Been there, tried it. I lived nomadically in beautiful natural places for almost a year in 05/06. Fro years before, and most years since,, my holidays have involved my disappearance from civilization for unknown periods. Did exactly this, and got wonderfully lost for hours, a few days ago.

    What do I want? For a long time I thought I wanted to understand myself, my nature, and my world enough to decide what I want. I have come to understand that understanding is impossible. My world is not real, I am undefinable, and my nature is eternal confusion. I have tried more things in 15 years than most people try in 3 lifetimes. What do I want next? Nothing, I don’t know. Whatever it is, I want it to bring bliss into my experience.

    If I can’t make others happy, and allowing happiness into my experience by releasing fear has resulted in confusion, forcing happiness is impossible, choosing happiness is short lived without a doing action to channel happiness through, which is both a limitation and an enabler. There is nothing I can think of to do or have that I can use to reach new heights of happiness, to channel that beingness.

    “Freedom, beauty, joy, expression, being …” I already have all this now, in varying degrees. If I wasn’t quite so confused I’m sure my joy would be higher, especially if I had an artistic or creative form of expression to channel through. Except none appeal.

    People feeling they have needs subjectively. Everyone that thinks they need something believes their needs are the most important need in the world. Who am I to judge one persons needs as more important than another? What’s a ‘real need’?

    If left is right, and right is wrong, which way do I go?

  • Lisa


    I can relate to you in the sense that your awareness of being a Soul in a human body creates confusion about purpose. I have human daily responsibilities of the mundane variety, just as we all do. As I wander through the grocery store and observe the others around me who are in a rush, angry at the checkout girl for being new and moving to slow, or yelling at their children, I feel like I’ve been dropped into a world where I don’t belong. Because I See things differently, I guess.

    I struggle with this at my job too because I work with mostly with men (no offense to anyone) many who are very ego driven and unempathetic to the plight of those we serve, who are all having some sort of personal crisis.

    In a crisis, the only thing that matters is a particular problem or need that the person doesn’t have the knowledge, insight or resources to figure it out themselves. So they call for help. All I can do is be mySelf as an observer and problem solver, and See people as what they are and where they are spiritually…. another soul trapped in a human body, here to learn at their own pace. And I realize how far ahead I am on the earth learning experience.

    Sometimes it seems ridiculous to me how mean and inconsiderate many people are, but that’s where they are….I can’t judge (at least I try not to) or change that. I just acknowledge the spirit in them silently and hope that my interactions with them planted a seed somewhere.

    What I’ve learned so far is that the “knowing” inside me will never be reconciled for me here. The real answers are just beyond my mental reach as I know they should be. If we remembered everything, there would be not purpose in being here.

    The best I can do is be present in the moment, not think too much and be content with the fact that I am aware that I am aware. Aware that I am contained inside my physical body, but that outside of it, I stretch into infinity.

    Namaste ~ Lisa

  • Buzz

    Thank you for your opinion. It is valued.

    May I ask, what would you be, do or have if you believed, as you say, ” there would be not purpose in being here”? I know I am not omniscient, just lacking purpose. Reason unknown.

  • Buzz

    Damn, sorry Mewabe, Neale, Scott, Erin, Marko, and everyone else who has commented or may comment at some point in the future. You are all highly valued to me, and I’m proud to call you my friends. Even Kristen, as hard as that may be to comprehend, are a friend to me.

    Thank you all. This has been beautiful, but I see now I must look to a different environment, and to different people, for … I don’t even know what for. This group has impaired my ability to express myself, despite my vast vocabulary, but I’m not frustrated or angry as I once would have been, I have always been, when my confusion is pushed beyond tolerance limits.

    I am strong, and weak. I am proud, and so very humbled. I am impossible, yet here I am. What do you want from me?

    Only I can answer this. What happens to me when I am persistently unable to answer? What happens to me when I gradually cease to make mundane choices?

  • Lisa


    I do believe that everyone has a purpose here, including you. If not, who would I be talking to? When you look at the state of the world and the earth it’s hard to say for each individual what their purpose might be. What’s the purpose of the mentally ill homeless man? What’s the purpose of the sex offender, the gang banger, the thief? What’s the purpose of the drug addict who’s only quest in this moment in time is to get high, no matter who must get hurt to accomplish that goal?

    I ran into one of the above on the street the other day. He was on foot and he asked me for directions to the local employment computer lab. It was cold and he’d be walking a long few miles. I gave him directions and before he left I asked him his name and looked in his eyes to wish his a silent soul how-do-you-do. Then wished him good luck in his travels. I could’ve given him a ride, but I didn’t. Sometimes a long cold walk is exactly what someone needs. He thanked me and went on his way.

    And as he left, I could tell that he appreciated just being asked his name. Had he asked someone else for those directions, he may have been treated and judged according to who he is perceived to be. In that moment, my purpose was to let someone know that he still counts.

    For me, the answer to your question lies in my acceptance of not knowing the big picture of why I am here (this time around). And I have accepted that my purpose is what I am doing at every moment (not ground breaking or very exciting). Right now, my purpose is to communicate with you. In a moment, I am going to go exercise and my purpose is then to care for and nurture my body. Then I am going to put a roast in the oven, thank the animal who gave his life for me, then feed my husband something healthy for dinner. My purpose to keep him out of the potato chip bag. And so on.

    The culmination and mystery of how this all adds up at the end of my life here is what I have to look forward to…

  • Scott

    Hi Buzz

    You really are much closer to where you want to be than you realise. Awareness is a gradual process that seems to start and stop and then start again. It’s easy to get caught up in the things of this world and when we do we lose momentum and we feel like we aren’t getting anywhere. But it’s not true. You and I and everyone that contiues to ask will recieve what we truly desire. No one gets left behind unless they choose to stand still.

    You are so close to a shift in awareness, I can feel this for you. Keep going, don’t stop now, whether it’s here or some place else. Just keep going and never doubt that you will find the understandings you are seeking.

    I am not you but I too have asked the questions you have asked as have many others before us and I promise the answers are there. At the most unexpected times my shifts in awareness have come, often after a low point when I had begun to think things would never change, then BANG! everything changed. The change being completly internal with no outside circumstances changing at all.

    You have won my heart and I am proud to call you friend.

    Never give up Brother Bear

    Namaste Scott

  • Buzz

    I understand all that, Lisa. I really do.

    My question is not about my soul’s purpose, or my purpose in this life. I don’t know why I am, here and now. I don’t have a reason for typing this, and I expect no response, nothing in return at all. But I am asking …

    I have been some of the personalities you describe (not a sex offender in this life, but I can empathise. I got as close as possible to understanding without harming anyone). I’ve tried the other side too, powerful businessman, company director, home builder, trusted advisor, etc. These are all identities I couldn’t feel comfortable wearing.

    I’ve been a hermit, nomad, pilgrim, prepper, monk, martial arts devotee, religious devotee, environmental activist, anti-war activist, weapons distributor employee (legal), stock broker, political party supporter (both sides, and indi), military serviceman, and partook in an additional 3 or 4 dozen different positions of employment.

    I have tried more types of recreation than most are even aware of, including stunts that even some daredevils consider suicidal. Falling backwards from a bungee platform blindfolded, and I didn’t feel them strap my feet. Skydiving from <1000ft. Limestone caving by feel alone, no torch. Deep sea SCUBA, nitrogen poisoning, then gunning for surface to experience the benz (it didn't work, I never needed hyperberic chamber).

    I've tried every type of artistic expression I can think of, including creating architecture, music, painting, poetry, film, and abstract. I'm in the process of helping create the most amazing piece of digital beauty I've ever seen, 2 years going now.

    And I've had plenty of different types of relationships along the way, mostly delusionally dysfunctional, sometimes psychotic.

    I didn't enjoy any of them. Not 1. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

    I keep looking because everyone is so sure that everyone has something, at least one thing, that brings them bliss, joy and love into their experience, if they can find it. Why would I be the one and only living exception?

  • Scott


    This group has not impaired your ability to express yourself, being a part of this group has simply allowed you to let go of expressing yourself in ways that are no longer needed.

    In other words, you are allowing us to see really see you and that my friend is a beautifol thing

    Hang in there Brother Bear.

    Namaste Scott

  • Buzz

    Brother Bear is a very well made childrens film, the music of which was done by Phil Collins and has been among my favourites on my digital music player. I recommend it.

    “Only when we stare so very deeply into the darkness, can we experience ourselves as the light.” – Unknown

    Been there, done that. Many times! I have come to know that changes in awareness are eye-opening, but maintenance of epiphany levels of awareness are impossible to maintain. Intuitive flashes are glimpses of an energy we are biologically incapable of comprehending. I get glimpses irregularly and randomly, sometimes several in a day, sometimes only one in a fortnight. They have become familiar, trusted, valued, followed, then forgotten, like the passing advice of a close friend.

    The first time I got a clear message was about 15 years ago, which simply said “continue.” It wasn’t a word or phrase, but a feeling.

    “Keep moving forward.” – Meet The Robinsons

    I vowed that minute never to ignore it. I can also get a feeling now almost any time I like, and for some reason I sensed “ipecac”, but I suspect it’s just because I have flegm in my throat from this cold I’ve had 2 months now.

    Thanks for the advice Scott, but in a sense I gave up a long time ago, and the peace that came from that surrender was illuminating. I sometimes look for new ways to surrender without ending my life, which I’m keeping as a last resort, knowing the choice can’t be reversed the way most others seem to (not actually reversed, just changed). I’m not afraid to die, but I have to resist gravity and many other forces to stay alive, and can’t figure why I’m bothering.

  • Buzz

    Yes Scott, that’s a better articulation of what I meant to say, thanks.

    I’m losing my mind.

  • Scott

    You aren’t an exception Buzz but you are unique.

    After reading your list of accomplishments it becomes kind of obvious that your looking in all the wrong places. (meaning external to you)

    It’s a classic case of “If you don’t go within, you go without”. Now I know your going to say that you have done all the internal soul searching stuff too and still haven’t found what your looking for (is that a U2 song line?) but It’s the only place left to look Buzz and there are too many great teachers that have told us that it’s the only real chance we’ve got for the kind of bliss your talking about.

    I know from my own experience that they are right.

    Namaste Scott

  • Lisa


    Wow. And I thought I’ve worn alot of different hats. You should write a book!

    Do you really think that most people are comfortable wearing their different identities? I don’t. Maybe the truly self-actualized people are, but they are few. I think most people like to lock in what they do so that they are sure they know who they are and don’t have to think about it anymore.

    Speaking for myself, and probably why I’m here on this site, there is a disconnect between what I do for a living, what I believe, how I see the rest of my life playing out and how I can become whole in my daily life.

    The identity I wear on the outside at work determines who people think I am. I don’t like that. And there is not much about my job that brings me bliss, joy or love. I see sadness, violence, death and despair. And most of the time I feel a heartache for what is happening to the spiritual, mental and physical health of my fellow humans.

    You are not the one and only living exception. I don’t experience bliss. I’m not even sure what it is. I do experience love and the joy of being with someone who gets me. Only I had to love mySelf before he could’ve ever come into my life.

    I agree with Scott, you are close to a shift in awareness. The only thing I can offer, because I saw it happen in my own life, is the power of being present in the moment. Not dwelling on the past or worrying about the future. If you haven’t read it, I would recommend reading Eckhart Tolle’s The Power of Now. I think you would really connect with his own despair in his introduction and how he came to understand some very simple principles about living on this Earth.


  • Scott

    Brother Bear is just an just a handle I give to people I like and consider as friends. Kind of an Indian thing, I’ve got some Black Foot in my history.

    The ipecac thing really made me laugh, reminded me of a family guy episode.

    I say again you are Unique my friend. Be a real shame if you “pulled the pin” early. I can’t say I know what it’s like to be you and from what I do know of you, your life must be difficult.

    You have had the kind of insights that lead to greater ones just keep going with that, give it some focus over a longer period. The results will come. Probably in a much more spectacular way than most people experience because of the unique kind of person that you are. You have suffered more so the reward will be greater, that kind of thing.

    Anyway I’ve got to crash & burn. Talk to you later my friend

    P L & Y (peace love & yogurt) Scott

  • Buzz

    I left the soul searching stuff off the list because it’s damn near impossible to articulate, and you’re right. All my best memories have been when I’ve gone within.

    I’ve come to learn that going within means a lot less without experiential context. In other words, we need to believe that we need salvation for the experience of being saved to hold value in our memory that’s worth remembering.

    Perspective is everything, without which I have become an impartial, objective observer. This is the depicted experience of angels, which I don’t think I am. I can’t teleport, I’m not telepathic, etc., but I’m not quite like human either. I was a variety of HEB’s on another world in past lives. I also remember being many other types of life forms, but I have no memory of any human experiences in past lives.

    I have had a conversation with God in which time stopped. The conversation lasted about an hour, but people in the room said it’d barely been 2 or 3 minutes. I became privy to information I can’t repeat. During the conversation, looking around the room seemed like a video switching between pause, slow mo, and play.

    All of these experiences were somewhat anticlimactic. Breathtaking brilliance and fantasy beyond wildest dreams, but not what I’ve been looking for, especially since I don’t know what I’m looking for.

    Going offline for a few hours now.

  • Scott

    Thanks for your presence here too Lisa. If we don’t look after each other, who will?

    P L & Y Scott

  • Buzz

    PS. Thanks again Lisa. I’ve got Power Of Now on disc, read by the author, listened to over a dozen times. I have written a book, but it doesn’t go into any of that. Hats I’ve been trying to take off my whole life populate it, which I no longer wear. Most of the people here seem self-actualized with an identity, as writers, musicians, artists, etc., a few like yourself that don’t post much, and the super-unique me (I’ve been told I’m different my whole life, except when told I’m identical to the stiff next to me. Both are true).

    PPS. I like yogurt 🙂

  • Lisa

    Thank you Scott.


    Buzz, It’s been good talking with you. You’re interesting and filled with stories, with clearly so much to offer in any conversation. Please stay on Earth a while longer.

    Namaste ~ Lisa

  • mewabe

    Hey Buzz, Thank you for sharing more of who you are…but when you write, you seem to write about yourself as if you stood outside of yourself, as if you spoke of another person, a person you do not really like, a person you are loosing patience with.

    We have been talking about the soul here, but it would be difficult knowing the soul without the heart’s involvement.

    The goal, if there is one, is not to reach something out there, as Scott pointed out…and it is not really to reach a “place” or dimension within (such as the soul, this mysterious and ultimate dimension of being). So I might have mislead you before, not thinking totally clearly.

    The “goal” here on earth, while in physicality, is integration. Please pay attention to this word and it’s meaning…

    If the goal was to actually be in our soul, and nothing else, we would not have incarnated here, as Lisa was expressing.

    But we are not “trapped” anywhere, the way I see it. We only appear to be, as long as the soul and the body are in conflict. The only “way out” of this conflict, the only freedom actually, is integration. I will try to explain.

    What are we doing hanging around here? If you want to find something that will give you some of understanding what you are doing here, do this, and be patient because it takes a while: go for the integration of your heart, mind, body and soul. Integration means that they work together as one. it also means that your physical brain become integrated (right and left brain, upper and lower brain). It all works amazingly together.

    When you are integrated, you live in oneness. And only when you live in oneness are you absolutely free, as the universe is free. Because the only limitations or “prison” (feeling trapped) we experience here on earth are created by inner conflicts.

    Right now you feel no meaning because you are in conflict, inwardly. And you are using your mind to try to figure thing out, even when you try to get outside of your mind.

    But let the mind be a tool, not the master. Slowly, gradually, align your mind with your body, with your heart, with your soul, align yourself with the universe around you, with the cosmos. That’s how you become one and integrate your being with the divine essence or presence that is one also.

    Bring spiritual consciousness into your physicality, make your body spiritual and your spirit physical…involve your heart in all things…use your mind to become aware of oneness. Make this total integration your goal, your “practice”, every moment.

    Be patient, it will not happen overnight. What I get from you is lack of patience…you are a “doer”, you have accomplished much, but you need to slow down in order to get long lasting results on anything, you can’t just breeze through. It may take several years, persistence and trust are crucial.

    Expect some emotional healing.

    Finally I want to say that I have experienced some of what you have felt and experience, in terms of searching and feeling like I did not belong in this world.
    But the world is not really the problem, it’s us. The only place where you will ever feel like you belong is yourself. And you will not realize this if you are not integrated…if you are not one, living in coherence within yourself and within the cosmos.

    You seem to be very hard on yourself, almost punishing. Stop beating yourself, what is it about yourself you do not love? Your choice of partners (bad relationships) is a reflection of how you feel about yourself (many have been there, I have, it’s not a judgment, we have all struggled).

    Live in your heart. Align your heart with your mind, body and soul and involved them all coherently, align yourself and connect with the cosmos or universe, or macrocosm. Again the “door” to what some call “God”, this immense power or energy or intelligence or absolute being is unity, oneness…

    Being one within aligns you with the oneness of the universe.

    That’s the real secret no one talks about.

    You then resonate with All Life, All Reality, All That Is, you are extraordinarily in “sync”, and consistently.

    Take time to reflect upon this…these are not concepts. It’s a highly practical path, perfectly doable, with patience and dedication.

    The joining of hands in prayer, that can be seen in India (in meditation) and also in Christianity, means exactly this: integration. Making two as one, integrating all “opposites” (such as body and soul), all duality. The meaning has been lost.

    The “sacred pipe” of Native Americans is also about this: integration…when the pipe (female) and the stem (male) are put together, two are symbolically made one, which creates oneness, which aligns us with the divine essence which is one.

    So is the oldest spiritual or religious symbol in the world: the cross within the circle. It represents the heart, mind, body and spirit integration as one and aligned within the circle, which represents the universe, without beginning or end. The center, which is one, symbolizes the one divine presence within. The circle, which is also one, represents the one divine presence without, the creation. And one cannot exist separate from the other, one implies the other, the inner and the outer are also one.

    Do you see the meaning of all this? Integration can be done, within yourself. It is the door to actual liberation, and it is a paradox (I get that you understand paradoxes).

    Be patient, be more compassionate towards yourself, and trust you will get there, which is actually here.

  • mewabe

    I have a lot of typos in the comment above, I hope you can overlook them Buzz…I did not take the time to read my comment before posting it, I am in a rush.

    I could also have mentioned the integration aspect of sex…obvious, yet somehow missed by most. The joining together or integration or oneness of female/male…could it be a coincidence that such a thing produces a form of bliss (potentially), as well as leading to new life (potentially)?

    Oneness is life, life is oneness. The universe was not created by a prude or puritan God, as integration (in the form of some sexual activity) happens all around us at all time and for all creatures. We could say that the entire creation is an on going orgy.

    But the ultimate form of integration, again, is not just that of polarities (such as male/female, or the inner self and the outer universe, etc), although it is crucial…the ultimate is the integration of heart, mind, body and spirit. It can only be done through consciousness.

  • Inger Lise

    Hi everybody, and thank you very much, a new world of experiences by the reading of it all.
    Thou, of myself once upon a time of to have experienced living among the U.S. troops during the last five years of the Vietnam war. Took the driving-license of mine with the same model as of one 1945 jerry-army-jeep back then at the age of 23 years old.
    In a war the death became often experienced as surrealistic by many.

    But, oh well, the good humour is life-saving.
    Came to be thinking of what to have learned while to be with an Edgar Cayce study-group(the late, and the famous, american sleeping-prophet)once, and something catched the attention of mine during the study of the E.C.readings, it is: “Thoughts are THINGS,” and
    “Mind Is The Builder.”

    You are a bunch of amazing fellows, and I love ye all.

  • mewabe

    Thank you Inger about “Thoughts are things”.

    Yes thoughts have their own energy…they become forms.

    The power of anything is in the meaning we give to it, through consciousness.
    Consciousness affects water molecules, it affects subatomic particles, it affects others and our lives. Consciousness even affects the natural environment.

    Where you direct your consciousness, how you direct it, is what your life becomes.

    So Buzz, use your consciousness for integration.

    You will probably say “I have been there, done that”. But slow down and think more deeply about it, and take the time to see the implication and multi-layered meaning of this. Then take the time to apply it, and don’t expect results right away.

    Separation, polarization (such as a perceived conflict between body and soul, between physicality and spirituality) lead to feeling trapped. Integration, oneness lead to liberation. Integration is the shortest path to liberation, and another paradox (a huge one).

  • mewabe

    To explain the paradox in other terms:

    It is only when the soul becomes one (integrates) with what you think is your prison (your body) that it is freed.

    How is that for a complete contradiction?

    Bring your heart and mind into the equation, and you have reached the door to liberation. You have “overcome” the world as did Yeshua (meaning you have overcome all limitations by reaching oneness or God essence).

    Okay, I need to take a break (meaning going back to work actually).

  • mewabe

    I should have specified:

    It is only when the soul becomes one (integrates) with what you think is your prison (your body) that it is freed here in this physical world.

    Words are such an obstacle to communication at times…but I hope you get the jest of it Buzz.

    Food for thoughts, or food for the compost pile…ever way it will turn into something 🙂

  • Buzz

    I just wrote a reply that took 2 hours to articulate, and lost it all because the Captcha code was rejected, and when I pressed back I accidentally clicked it twice, and cache was overwritten, so I lost my text.

    I’ve tried writing it in a word processor first then copying across, but formatting like line breaks are all lost. What do I do?

    In the mean time I’ll try to rewrite my post again, shorter this time.

  • Scott

    Hey Brother Mewabe & everyone else

    Hard to stay away isn’t it?

    Your advice is good. The goal really is to get all 3 aspects of who you are to work in harmony with each other and it is a process that takes time and focus.

    I also think your right that Buzz moves to fast, changes direction to often to get the full benifit of his experiences. He is an amazing person & I have come to care about him a great deal as I know you do as well, hence the time you take out of your life to talk to him.

    Integration is a great word & works well to describe body, mind & spirit acting in harmony with each other. As it happens, I came across another idea about integration just yesterday ( there are no coincidences ) that I believe is relavent to the point you were making.

    The trauma of the birth experience and other tramatic experiences in life ( as well as past lives ) leave negitive ernergy trapped in the body & that this negitive energy must be integrated ( transmuted? ) in order to sutain the harmony between body, mind & spirit that we seek. That we must access & experience & express this negitive energy, to release it, so that we continue to grow in a healthy way.

    The unhappy feelings that sometimes seem well up inside for no good reason, I believe, relate to this latent negitive energy. We may not be able to remember the actual incident but the energy remains, suppressed, waiting to rise again. Ekhart Tolle calls this the pain body. This is something we all experience & need to deal with so that we can reach our full potential.

    Tolle says the pain body can be trasmuted by bringing it into the light of consciousness. Another method is something called rebithing, which I am not familiar with. What ever action we use it is important to understand what is happening & that we find a way to deal with this repressed negitive energy.

    As you say Brother, Food or compost, it’s up to you.

    Namaste Scott

  • Scott

    Hey Buzz, how are you my friend? After reading your last post
    my guess would be frustrated.

    When I write in word first & them paste to this blog I then add the line breaks back in before I submit. My last post also didnt go thru but I was lucky and it was still there.

    looking forward to reading your revamped post

    P L & Y Scott

  • Scott

    That should have read REBIRTHING

    Thought I got thru that one with no typos, no such luck.

    P L & Y Scott

  • Buzz

    Lol with Scott. I wouldn’t have noticed the the mistake if you hadn’t corrected it. It doesn’t need to be perfect. Who saw the extra “the” lol. I dont understand your question about friends and frustration. Plz rephrase.

    Okay guys, here it is.

    Hello everyone.

    Wow, Mewabe, you’re putting a lot of energy into this. I appreciate your compassionate intentions, and i can feel empathically you’re sending me positive healing energy. Please accept my gratitude, and i want to sincerely apologize for this, but i feel beyond help. My story has become a burdon on this community, and it should end today.

    My internal conflict is too powerful, integration is impossible, and you are sending your love into a black hole. Many other people here are too. Thank you, i feel it, now please redirect it to someone who can benefit from it.

    Here’s why:

    To start, i need to give a quick lesson in biochemistry, mostly Neuroscience. There are 3 bio-synthesized chemicals called neurotransmitters generally considered responsible for feelings of joy, happiness, bliss, comfort, reward, gratitude, appreciation, and love.

      These are called serotonin, dopamine, and noradrenaline/norepinepherine. All modern antidepressant drugs are designed to inhibit the reuptake of one or more of these transmitters by the brain, thereby allowing the drug to be absorbed and bring the patient happiness.

    In very rare cases of prolonged psychological trauma, and most noticeably if experienced during childhood, the human brain adapts to conditions and can simply reduce the manufacturing of these transmitters. In other rare cases a person is born with a reduced capacity for creating happiness hormones, and some neuroscientists suspect this could be passed genetically. In these cases antidepressants are ineffective, because theres nothing there for the reuptake inhibitor to inhibit.

      My entire family on both sides have this impairment. My father compensated for his flaws by suppressing his emotional self to be more like the computers he worships. He’s one of the most experienced artificial intelligence programmers alive. He treats people the same, like he’s programming them, and expects regular upgrades to hardware and software. I grew up with pressures and expectations tantamount to bullying, which extended into bullying in school, college, work, and home and it took decades of therapy to overcome. I still have some good feelings, or I’d be dead. Lack of hormones leads to organ failure.

    My uncle on mum’s side suicided in his teens, before i was born. A dozen or more family members are regular illicit drug users, half of which spend more than their share of time in prison. Almost everyone is in severe denial there’s a problem. Some have placed all their energy and faith into their devotion for some religion or another, on both sides. Every single peerson has a plethora of physical ailments, many incurable, and many of those even untreatable. The only family member i can think of that isn’t severely affected is my sister. The pain level increases with age, so when people tell me how much life i have ahead of me, i think of my parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents, etc and groan.

    Even among the special I’m special. Antidepressants have no effect on me. In fact, most of the phamaceuticals ive tried for my condition either made me worse or had no effect. Even some of the illicit ones had no effect. Alcohol makes me worse, and I have mild allergic reactions to caffeine and sugar. Drugs like valium, prozac, xanax, and pain killers have virtually no effect unless I take an amount exceeding safe limits  (I’m told the word overdose doesn’t apply here because I’m not trying to self harm).

      I used a variety of risky activities to force my attention into now, as a temporary distraction from the pain. I became so addicted to now i lost context, it became a drug beyond my control. I believed i needed to be on the edge of death to feel alive, because unless my physical survival was on the line the power of the distraction was insufficient. This is why I’m easily bored (meditation is not boring).

    I’m only 30. Thirty years to do all that. Doesn’t seem possible does it?

    People sometimes try to cheer me up. “Smell a rose, make a baby giggle, listen to Mozart, go hang gliding, the world is a playground. So i smile back to shut them up. I hate having to admit they’re correct, life is beautiful. I envy the facial expressions i see on happy people who do things that i do, and I think “so what?”, then wonder “am I smelling it wrong, hearing it wrong? If everyone’s laughing, the joke must’ve been funny, so why aren’t i laughing? Why was a snort, smile and a nod all i could muster?”

    Despite this, life is beautiful. There is so much beauty, I can’t bring myself to leave voluntarily, and it’s been made clear God won’t let me die by accident, so I’m stuck here, my heart and soul in heaven, my body in hell, and my mind creating an illusion in an attempt to make sense of it all, yet knowing it will never suceed.

    My biochemical imbalance cannot be corrected. Ive tried a variety of treatments, mainstream and alternative. The cumulative effect of genetics and upbringing, nature and nurture, has had a permanent effect on my hormone production. There are a few expensive forms of long term management, one of which requires regular transfusions of hormones from my body, and injected directly into my brain, to boost mood, but the patient is awake, local anasthetic only so it is painful, and i would need to visit a hospital every week, possibly for the rest of my life. No thanks.

    Thank you for all your compassion everyone, but i know there is no solution to this problem, i will always have this internal conflict, preventing integration and synchronization, and unless you have a way of helping someone ascend beyond the physical form without death in order to complete synchronization, like an out of body experience, or some other suggestion for completing integration, maybe we should return to idle mundane conversation about irrelevant worldly matters like who owns which patch of dirt, what the weather’s doing, and who likes the new talk show host.

  • Scott

    Let me try that again

    Hey Buzz, how are you doing? , my friend. My guess is you would be frustrated because of losing your last post in a computor glitch.

    That done let me say, I believe anything is possible. Even overcoming the situation you have described. Christ cured the sick & there are people in the world today that can heal when modern science hasn’t been able to give relief. Ask, Seek, Knock, this is a promise given to us & is always true if we can only find a way to believe & then know that it is true.

    I live in Brisbane & if you are ever over this side of Oz it would be great to talk in person. You can get my e-mail from the CwG village site & contact me anytime you want.

    I don’t have any great revelations for you, just friendship & all that goes with it.

    Never give up Brother Bear


  • mewabe


    Great point, about traumas trapped as energy in the body (and don’t forget the unconscious).

    If you want more information on this Scott, check out Arthur Janov writings, he goes very deeply into it and into how the brain works, from before birth to adulthood. You will be very surprised and I think it will interest you, but beware that as with anyone who has created a breakthrough (he made an accidental discovery), he has many detractors. However I can assure you that he is right on target. John Lennon did his form of therapy…so did I in LA.

    All spiritual quests lead to sooner or later coming face to face with what some people symbolically call our “shadow”, which is nothing more than suppressed trauma, suppressed memories, pain that has not been expressed and released, because an infant, a very young child cannot deal with some forms of pain, so the brain, as a form of self-defense, automatically suppresses it. But it does not vanish, it remains in the unconscious and seeps through, so to speak, and causes confusion and suffering later in life.

    Indeed suffering is pain that has not been felt, integrated and released.

    We cannot talk or think or medicate ourselves out of it…we must become fully conscious of it, integrate with the corresponding memory, feel it fully, express it, release it. That’s the natural way, the direct way.

    Beware of rebirthing, it is very dangerous, it can release too much trauma way too fast and actually cause the brain to shut down, to suppress feelings even further, which some people confuse with healing, because they feel less, so like someone on prozac or morphine they think they are now happy.

  • mewabe

    Buzz, we talked about Janov before, it could be a solution (his form of therapy has actually been scientifically verified and proven to alter brain chemistry for good, unlike meditation that one has to keep practicing every day forever and that does not heal trauma), but you rejected the idea.

    There are a lot of phonies out there claiming to do this form of therapy, who are neither trained nor qualified to do it properly, and are giving it a bad name because what they do is either inept or dangerous.

    I feel bad for you, you seem trapped in suffering, but you may realize that the hopelessness you feel about finding a solution is another expression of your old pain…that it is not necessarily justified. There may be hope.

    Why not taking a chance at wasting more time…read one of Janov’s books. I am not trying to push anything on you, it may or may not apply to you, but what do you have to loose, since you have already spent so much time and energy on other pursuits, a couple of dollars to buy a used copy on the internet? If anything, it could give you some great insights on the human condition, make you understand other people better, and why they are the way they are, and do what they do, even if you can’t use it for yourself.

    Take care Buzz

  • Buzz

    Okay Mewabe, I’ll look into it. People have suggested so many other books, it may take a while to get to janov. I’ve got 4 going simultaneously now. Thanks.

    Thanks Scott, I did flip out a bit, losing 10 pages of text, till I realised I wasn’t meant to post it. I was meant to rewrite it, so I could understand how I feel now, having written something so miserable and pessimistic. Sorry to put everyone through that. Everything can be healing from a certain perspective. I got so caught up with being unable to grow, I forgot how far I’ve come, and how great it feels to have healed those parts of me. Thank you Buzz 🙂

  • mewabe

    Don’t apologize Buzz, pain is universal and something everyone understands…it is humbling for all of us…pain is the great equalizer…you would be surprised, when you scratch the surface, how much unconscious pain most people carry.

    This is not anything most people like to talk about…they don’t want to “go there”…Yet “there” is precisely where they must go!

  • Scott

    Hey Buzz

    I know what you mean. I have lost stuff before & cursed the gods only to realise that I was meant to re-write it & was much happier with the second version.

    And let me say I don’t find it ironic at all that no sooner do I say : Anything is possible & believe in Ask, Seek, Knock……. Mewabe turns up with a possibility for you. Something that might help or lead to something that might help.

    Your comment about forgeting how far you have come is so relatable, we all fall into that paticular “trap for players”.

    There are so many stories of people that have stopped just short of the success they were looking for, don’t be one of them.

    Use your Intuition, Know that anything is possible & Never Give Up.

    Your Friend Scott

  • Buzz

    Saw something in the header of another new thread. What do you think?

    ” 11. Your life has nothing to do with you. It is about everyone whose life you touch, and how you touch it.”

    I’ve been concerned I’ve got nowhere left to grow, but this suggests my personal growth is irrelevant. I’m not here to grow myself, but to support others? Further, it suggests I can’t rationally have both. This is not about me, and definately not about my story. Never was. This is about sharing (I think), so tell me, have any of you benefited from me sharing my story? Is there anything else you’d like to know?

  • Inger Lise

    Buzz and all, ALL of you, by No Exemption(s), have given me “the new insights.”

    Buzz, You are only 30 YEARS OLD!!!! But already “an old soul”(if using the methaphysical/spiritual, language). What more to say?

    I am brought up within a protected bubble, until entering the Flight from Copenhagen(in Denmark), and for the very first time entering outside of Scandinavia, and the western world, with the destination Bangkok, Thailand, in the late 1960thies(since then have been stationed a couple of more places around in the world together with the aviator of a husband, and I have been married to the same guy in 47 years by now).
    A world long gone nowadays.
    Stepping out of the airplane unto the airfield( no aircondition at the airport back then) gasping for fresh air, as the heat made “a knock-out” on me, and not “a westerner” in sight, except for the folks in the arriving airplane, who disappeard somewhere.
    It is one of those traumatic experiences, even of to have been EDUCATED for it, watching the Far East on TV-screens.

    Yeap, Buzz, you have shared more than anyone else of ever of to have met(thou, of have learned of us to be the SAME). You are the god-given GIFT no matter what it IS.

  • Buzz

    Hello Inger,
    Thanks, I think. I’ve been told I’m an old soul most of my life, and while I’ve assumed it’s a kind of compliment, and possibly a expression of … what is the word here? Respect? Humility? Besides that, I don’t know what it means.

    I agree that Thai weather, and South East Asia climate in general, can be uncomfortably hot and wet, or warm and humid. Fortunately I don’t have to tolerate such extremes very often in Pala. In case you’re wondering, we’ve taken control of the abandoned city of Atlantis too, restoring it like new.

  • Scott


    Has anyone benifited from you sharing your story?

    The better question would be “Who hasn’t”

    It feels better to me to say “Your life is not ABOUT you” rather than saying it has nothing to do with you. That quote is not meant to indicate that you don’t count. The deeper meaning to that saying is that at one level ( I don’t want to say a higher level ) there are no “others” therefore anyything you do to or for anyone else you do to yourself. You are still part of the equation, it’s a two way street with u-turns at both ends, your growth helps others to grow & visa versa. Without both, nothing grows.

    When I first encountered you I thought “Who the heck is this guy & what the hell does he think he’s doing?”.

    Now, after what we have all gone through here together, I can’t tell you Buzz, how grateful I am that I have been a part of it. Did I benefit from your story? More than I can express to you in the space we have here.

    We are not our stories but our stories are what give us a reference point to live by, they guide us into the future & point the way to who we think we are. Without them we are lost.

    The greatest gift we have been given is that our story never ends & that we can create a new one any time we wish.

    So…………..What story shall we write now?

    P L & Y Scott

  • Buzz

    I think what the quote is trying to say is I shouldn’t count to me. It’s about humility and the aforementioned interpretation of what unconditional love is: “expect nothing in return from giving.” To give away to the world everything I have, and everything I am, all the things that define me, and my very identity, is a greater surrender than death. To place my trust in others so completely that I cease to exist as an unique individual is the ultimate act of love and trust, especially if nothing has been done to prepare for the leap of faith.

    I have made similar leaps of faith before, placing my trust in nature, but I always considered trusting humans that much too risky. Any thoughts?

  • Inger Lise

    The indicator of the new world will be: No Man Is Your Enemy.
    Well, it is a still a world of the diversities, because watching the news today from The Middle East, indicating absolutely something else.

    Hi, hello, came to be thinking of the UFO`s, and the many “followers.”
    Is it all A State of Mind? No matter of what others says, of have LOVED the old Star-Trek series, much wisdom in it( but not the new modernized ones ).

    Atlantis and Lemuria will be explained in the E.C. readings(and it is written the books about it within The Theosophical Society as well, long ago).
    The books are still in print.
    It is Timelessness.

  • Scott


    When you give to “others” & the world you are giving to yourself. How can you not count? Giving with the spirit of love & compassion without being attached to the result is the very essence of freedom & it is the engine that creates abundance for everyone. The universe is a big reflection machine & the “on” switch is never “off”. You said it yourself, be the change you want to see in the world.

    People can disapoint you if you are attached to what they do in responce to what you do, but if you give not worrying about the result, you are truly free.
    A very wise person once told me “Put your faith in a set of principals, not people, because unlike people, principals never change,

    To be humble is important, humility reminds us of the illusion of superiority & that we are all in this together, not separately.

    P L & Y Scott

  • Scott

    I was running out of battery during my last post so I probably rushed it a bit, more thoughts then:

    Trusting humans is never risky if you don’t have expectations about the results. Much can be anticipated by looking into past results but people still have the abilitiy to surprise. That’s what makes it all so much fun.

    I don’t think it’s possible to not exist as a unique individual nor is it something healthy to strive for, everything that exists is suposed to exist & has a reason to be here, including you as an indiviual. What we do while we are here is the important thing.

    I no longer seek to improve things for myself in terms of money or fame or any of the things that used to be important to me. What motivates me now is making things better for other people, helping to create a better world by helping others & I find one of the best ways to do that is by working on my own spiritual growth while I help others. Improving things from both ends at the same time.

    Gotta go, love you all

    P L & Y Scott

  • Buzz

    Interesting post. I hope you don’t mind me copying and modifying it to suit my perspective …

    ” When you give to “others” & the world you are giving to yourself. How can I not count to myself? ‘By ceasing to make ego in any form an aspect of my being. My sense of identity is then held solely in the judgements that others place on me, and only in their mind, not in mine.’ Giving with the spirit of love & compassion without being attached to the result is the very essence of freedom & it is the engine that creates abundance for everyone.

    The universe is a big reflection machine & the “on” switch is never “off”. ‘What if a person were to actively make themselves equally as reflective as the universe you describe? What happens visually when you stand behind one way glass directly opposite a mirror? Answer: you see infinity. So what of someone who gives infinitely of themself, and reflects back everything the universe reflects back to him? The build up of energy in the loop would be impossible to comprehend, with unpredictable results. Now!! What if the entire planet were doing this simultaneously?’ You said it yourself, be the change you want to see in the world.

    People can disappoint you, ‘with a lot of seemingly undesirable events and circumstances, many potentially of an extreme nature,’ if you are attached to what they do in responce to what you do, but if you give not worrying about the result, you are truly free.

    ‘My father has repeatedly told me “Put your faith in a set of principals, not people, because unlike people, principals never change.” This in flawed in so many ways. First, principles can and do change, both in the mind of the person and the public at large. Second, principles are like an internal set of rules and expectations. When in a relationship principles are used, it’s like trying to enforce a contract on someone that they didn’t sign or even know about. How can we judge another for disobedience to our principles? Third, many popular principles are in conflict with each other, forcing people to choose, and defend themselves with phrases like “I used my best judgement. Retrospect is 20/20. I deeply regret my actions and throw myself on the mercy of this court Your Honor.”

    And then

    ” Trusting humans is never risky if you don’t ‘care what happens, and have no desires for specific change or continuity about any aspect of life, health, wealth, or your legacy, loved ones, and valuables.’ Much can be anticipated by looking into past results but people still have the abilitiy to surprise. That’s what makes it all so much fun.

    I don’t think it’s ‘necessary’ to not exist as a unique individual ‘in my sense of identity’ nor is it something ‘often’ healthy to strive for, everything that exists is suposed to exist & has a reason to be here, including you as an indiviual ‘from my point of view’. What we do ‘for each other’ while we are here is the important thing.

    I no longer seek to improve things for myself in terms of money or fame or any of the things that used to be important to me. What motivates me now is ‘helping people believe they control themselves,’ & I find ‘one way’ to do that is by working on the spiritual growth of others. By helping others I am both a student and a guide, as I learn and remember both from the responses of others and my own creativity.

  • Steve Bolas

    Hey Buzz,

    Have you ever tried ditching the logical and analytical perceptions or attempt to come at things purely from the wonder of it all? What I find extremely beneficial is to purely experience the whole of it (life), simply with the thought that I’m creating it all and leave it at that. Where the relatively unfullfilled experiences arise is when I try to judge or justify or intellectualize what has just been created.


    Steve (Gold Coast – Australia)

  • Buzz

    Yes Steve,
    I have and do, but there is a time and place for everything, and sitting in wonder of a conversational online blog is called trolling, and I’d rather be a contributor. Without antagonistic people like myself, this place would be boring, lifeless. A community of drones worshipping Neale, questions left unanswered, suppressed problems continuing to boil within.

    I bring these out in people, get them emotional and angry, and hope they hang around long enough to allow healing to commence. I don’t care that I am hated for it, or that many leave as soon as I start probing, because the few who learn something new about themself make all that worth it.

  • Steve Bolas


    “time and place for everything” . . . I think that is somewhat limiting.

    I perceive that you are too closely identifying with your outer experiences . . . giving it a power that doesn’t really exist . .


    Steve (Gold Coast)

  • Buzz

    Even after all this conversing, over a VERY long thread, I still don’t have any straight answers to most of the questions I posed on Nov 13 at 11am. What gives?

  • Steve Bolas

    Buzz – I’ve tried the routine of being what I had thought was expected of me, being a male. For me, it’s not always fullfilling playing that role. I am much more content when I am simply me.

    I am . . . and Life is . . . try not to narrow or label it – then you likely miss a more full awareness.

    Steve (Gold Coast – Australia)

  • Buzz

    Being me is vague advice when my sense of being who and what I am is so fluid, versatile, adaptive that I have no identity. Please try a different question.

  • Lisa


    Going all the way back to some of the questions you asked at the beginning, in which you said “A woman is entitled to infinite double standards and hypocrisy, and I am supposed to make logical sense of her.” As a woman who thinks very much like you do in many ways and conducts herself accordingly in the one and only successful relationship she’s ever had, don’t you think there has to be someone out there for you who will be able to meet you where you are without judgement, double standards and hypocrisy?

    Logically, there are many women out there who want to be separate entities from their partner in a way that is accepting, content, no pressure, not hypocritical and nonjudgemental. I certainly can’t be the only one.

    Your question, “Is my aforementioned awareness of their expectation of the impossible man resulting in my expectation of their expectations?” Perhaps through your expectations (which is an intention, really) the universe is giving you just what you expect. An impossible woman. Start be grateful for your your yet unmet perfect match, and perhaps she will arrive in your life.

  • Buzz

    Finally a rational mind, willing to put aside their own story. There are others here, sure, but none attempted my questions.

    Lisa, I put that part in there as an infinity loop, a kind of psychological trap. It’s an aspect of the infinity paradox, in which we make and have intentions and expectations of expectations of expectations of expectations …

    Yet if we fail to set intentions then we have no goals, dreams, ambitions, and nothing happens. This is the B side of another paradox of reality: there is nothing we need to do, but we need to have needs.

    We are too stupid to understand that we both strive to understand and never will. I don’t even know what that means, and I wrote it.

  • Ruchir Garg

    Buzz, of course you know yourself best, but is it possible that you need some discipline – to be quiet and meditate every day for a few months/years. I say that because I notice that you have tried a zillion things by age 30, so you could not have done any one thing for too long.

    There isn’t any discussion of karma or destiny in this forum, but my belief is that our past determines our current, and it takes time for things to play out.

    You want bliss, and you know that it can only be found internally, so be silent and go find it. These questions and debates are not going to help.

    Here is a truly remarkable man – Andrew Cohen, in Lenox, MA – who may be able to see through you and help. I say this from my own experience with him 12 years ago. If you can, go meet him. It is not the same as reading his book.

    Have you heard of Stuart Wilde? He says he can heal people. I don’t have first hand experience, but you may want to check out his web site. There is plenty of internet chatter against him too, but in this day and age, I do not know who or what to believe. So go with your instinct 🙂

  • Buzz

    Hello Ruchir,
    I’ll grant you I didn’t spend a long time in freefall during my skydive, but many other ventures I spent years on, including practicing meditation (which I have continued to this day). This is not a spiritual problem. It’s an emotional, psychological and physical malalignment. Each part of me claims to be in sync with spirit, yet they can’t agree with each other about what that is.

    Mind is trying to understand the emotions and categorize physical needs according to new perceptions of spirit. Physical wants what it has always wanted, and I don’t listen because it’s list of wants never ends, it’s never satisfied even for a minute. And my heart is the most paradoxical. It wants company, but it wants to feel safe, and some part of me still doesn’t trust others. It wants to be loved (intimate affection), because feeling love toward others is not enough from experience.

    I’m so impossibly confused

  • Simone_Cecilia

    The excerpt made many points that would have helped save and could possibly save many future relationships.
    The problem is that the thoughts proposed in the excerpt doesn’t define a romantic relationship and the difference of it’s purpose between that of, let’s say, the relationship between one and a friend.
    It also doesn’t reveal how one can base their decision on who to have a romantic relationship with. The described relationship sounds akin to one way street. If followed word for word the proposed way of carrying out a relationship could practiced with someone’s dog or sister-in-law. I don’t think my romantic relationships could work with just any male on the street. Could someone please fill me in on the author’s intention (or your own) of choosing someone worth having a romantic relationship with.

  • You mention loving the soul – or to you the Self – but in my training, there is a Mighty “I AM” Presence to which we direct attention. The Chart of the Presence shows this great sphere of concentric circles of different colors and light rays jetting out from the center. It also shows a “Tube of Light” from above the Presence (above the head) streaming into the physical human form standing on earth. After a great deal of study in The Saint Germain Foundation and The Theosophical Society, I had an epiphany which suggests that a higher kingdom which I have named: girasas is descending into the human as part of an evolutionary process. I naturally associate this higher kingdom with the Presence and have read that during the next human race, the girasas will even be more functional at a side-by-side constitution with two distinct living beings existing in one body. I love this kingdom of nature, the girasas, with all my heart and while they are located within me, I am able to separate them from the human to such an extent that allows them to meet us (current race), join with us (6th race), and leave us (7th race). When they leave, I think I will be back to working with a human soul or Self, but currently I am more focused on what this higher kingdom is capable of doing both separately and when joined with the human. I also read (when you say Self) girasas and I am very interested in coming to know them better. Does this idea of evolution seem plausible to you?