Worldwide Discussion:

Our purpose, our mission on the Earth right now is very clear. Our opportunity, our invitation, our challenge is to change the world’s mind about God.

To do this, we must first ask ourselves, and then ask the world, a profound question: Is it true that God threw us out of the Kingdom of Heaven, that we are born in sin, and that God will now not let us back into heaven unless we follow certain rules, the obedience to which is the only path allowing us to return?

Is it true, furthermore, that if we do not follow these rules we will not only be denied re-entry into heaven, but will be condemned to unimaginable and everlasting torture in hell?

Is this the God of our understanding? Does it matter?

Yes, it does. Because humanity’s belief in a violent, angry, and vindictive God justifies humanity’s embracing of — and approval of — violent, angry, and vindictive behaviors with each other. So long as we believe that judgment, violence, condemnation and killing are the Ways of God (the Bible tells us that over a million people were killed at the hand or the command of God), we will believe and behave as if judgment, violence, condemnation and killing are appropriate Ways of Humans.

We have based our behaviors on what we understand to be God’s behaviors. That is why God’s Message to the World is so very important at this moment in the evolution of our species.

“Okay, you claim to have talked directly with God, so tell us . . .what is God’s message to the world?”

The speaker was the world-famous host of one of America’s most popular national television morning shows, and he was asking me to answer the biggest question of all time.

“Can you bring it down to a sentence or two?” he added. “We have about thirty seconds.”

My mind raced. How could I say something in thirty seconds that would capture the essence of what Deity wants the world to know? Then, in one quick flash, I heard God’s answer in my head.

I blinked and made an announcement that surprised even me. “Actually, I can bring it down to five words.”

The host raised his eyebrows, showing a nanosecond of disbelief, then deadpanned to the camera: “All right then. Ladies and gentlemen, from a man who says he communes with The Divine, here is God’s message to the world . . . in five words.”

I knew that millions were watching in households around the globe. This was my chance to bring God’s most important communication to more people than I ever imagined I would, or could, in my lifetime. Looking straight into the lens I repeated the words I had just been given to say.

“You’ve got me all wrong.”

If that is true, it re-opens for all of humanity every question, every discussion, we have ever had about the Divine. It my answer is inaccurate, there is nothing further to discuss. The discussion is closed.

This is how most of the religious world would have it. The discussion is closed. God has spoken to us, we are told by virtually every one of the world’s major religions. And God has since stopped talking to us. There have been no further, no new, revelations.

This leaves us lingering for centuries — nay, millennia — with what God is reported to have said to us, which can now never, ever be explored or explained, and certainly never expanded. No one has the right to expand on What God Said. Anyone who does so will be condemned as a blasphemer, an apostate, a heretic.

Yet on page 3 of the 3,000-page dialogue known as Conversations with God this statement appears: “I talk to everyone. All the Time. The question is not to whom do I talk, but who listens?”

Our opportunity now on this Earth is decide whether there could be a shred of truth in that statement. As I said, our invitation is to Change the World’s Mind About God.  I believe this is the mission on which God has invited all of us to embark. It is work that will require great courage and deep conviction, for it contradicts every word of every religion in every culture and tradition on the Earth.

We are not children of a lesser God, who would judge us, punish us, and condemn us to everlasting damnation if we do not come to God through the right doorway, on the one and only pathway, by means of a singular means of salvation. Indeed, “salvation” itself is not even necessary, for God did not throw us out of the Kingdom of Heaven, then setting rules for our return.

The Good News is that we were not “born in original sin,” and we do not have to somehow earn our way back into God’s good graces so that we can go home. We are home right now, everlastingly in the arms of our loving creator, eternally embraced by Divinity, and imbued with It both now and even forevermore.

We are, indeed, “about God’s work.”

We have a chance, in this golden age of instant global communication, to launch a Civil Rights Movement for the Soul, freeing humanity at last from the oppression of its belief in a violent, angry, and vindictive God, and ending forever our telling and re-telling of the ancient and wholly inaccurate story of Separation.

We have been telling each other a story — and passing it on from generation to generation — that God is “up there” and we are “down here”, and never the ‘twain shall meet until Judgment Day, when we will be tried, judged, and convicted or acquitted…and if convicted, condemned and sent to everlasting torture as our punishment, that has produced our Separation Theology.

This in itself might be harmless enough, but the problem is that our Separation Theology produces a Separation Cosmology. That is, a way of looking at all of life that says that everything is separate from everything else.

And a Separation Cosmology produces a Separation Psychology. That is, a psychological viewpoint that says that I am over here and you are over there. And a Separation Psychology produces a Separation Sociology. That is, a way of socializing with each other that encourages the entire human society to act as separate entities serving their own separate interests.

And a Separation Sociology produces a Separation Pathology. That is, pathological behaviors of self-destruction, engaged in individually and collectively, and producing suffering, conflict, violence, and death by our own hands—as evidenced everywhere on our planet throughout human history.

Have we had enough now? Are we ready now to admit and to acknowledge that there may be something we do not fully understand about God and about Life, the understanding of which could change everything?

Are we ready now to, each of us, become messengers of a New Spirituality? Do we have the courage? Do we have the commitment? Do we even have an interest in doing so?


If so, how might we accomplish this? How can we change the world’s mind about God?

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  • mewabe

    “We have based our behaviors on what we understand to be God’s behaviors.”

    Yes I agree, but could the opposite not be true as well?
    Such as: we have conceived of a God that matches our nature and behaviors, thus validating them.

    In other words, as above, so below, and as below, so above.

    It may be that looking at problems through the linear mind does not always resolve them. For example once we get rid of what we think is the cause of our violence (and it is in many cases), such as a belief in an angry God, what do we do with the violence that still remains an integral part of human nature?

    Don’t atheists also kill and torture, also persecute and oppress in the name of some ideology?

    Don’t certain cultures cause men to kill their own daughters in the name of what they call honor?

    Don’t nations, including nations of non believers, wage wars and invade other nations simply to get their hands on resources and/or for geopolitical reasons (such as China with Tibet)?

    This is where most spiritual paths and methods fail, because they do not lead people far enough into the study and understanding of the universal human psyche.

    The simple answers spirituality provides are not enough, they need to be complemented with other knowledge and methods, all of which are spiritual when they actually help humanity heal and grow, even if they are not called spiritual in the traditional sense.

    In other words, it is my understanding that most of what is called spiritual is limited by its own definitions, and thus tends to dismiss what is not defined as spiritual. Yet all life is spiritual, as all life is spirit.

    How does this apply here? Let us not be satisfied with simple answers. These answers may be very true, but they do not form a complete picture. The human mind and layers of human consciousness are complex, and we know very little about them, and how the reality we know is actually formed, although theories abound, all of them probably at least partly true, but all of them incomplete.

    For example, we might say, in a spiritual way, that “love is the only reality”. This is true and not true at the same time, because incomplete. It is of little use to a person who is not capable of truly feeling and understanding love but at a superficial level, or who is as likely to experience love as to experience fear and hatred depending on circumstances, who cannot separate love and fear, whose fears increase the more s/he loves.

    Answers to all human problems may be given, but if someone has to carry a series of books or manuals around in order to understand themselves and to be reminded to think and act a certain way, or to “practice” a spiritual “discipline” every day, it may be that the key for real, deep and permanent change has not yet been found, perhaps because all have been looking for a single key, when the truth may be that we need to use many different keys.

  • Vladimir28

    Beings Of Light

    As beings of
    Light and God

    You must speak
    in That Nature

    You must celebrate

    But first you
    must believe in
    it yourselves

    Therefore, you must
    test it, challenge

    You must investigate

    Until you know
    there is no
    other way to

    Once you have
    found That solid

    You will plant
    your feet there

    You will deny
    violence and darkness

    And you will
    join God

    In the task
    of healing the

    Emmanuel, A manual
    for living comfortably
    in the cosmos

  • Vladimir28

    It is in these turbulent times that each of us bears full
    responsibility for the decisions we make everyday—as we choose between love and fear,
    self-esteem and self-denial, between sheer survival at the expense of all
    other forms of life on the one side and meaningful and fulfilling life in the
    interest of all on the other.

    Now is the time to ask the
    fundamental question: What do I really believe in? Now is the right moment
    to follow the Spark of Light within
    and use our spiritual powers to help co-create our New World.

  • Kristen

    If you want to stick to the Law, and understand it, Eden is a generic term for a place designated for only righteous people to live in as no suffering nor negativity is permitted in these zones. They are full of animals and children. Suffering is the result of most ‘wrongs’. The bible defines many other Universal wrongs for those who read it properly, the first one being Adam and Eves realisation that they were naked around others who were not their personal partner. A committee of the Biblical God in His role as the Universal God of Law, The Source and a very old Ancient who used to rule many realms are the ones who define wrong, and their decisions are fair and universal.The shrewd curse of mortality worked on the basis that humans life expectancy was originally 1000 years, at which point people were then permitted to eat from the Tree of Life and gain immortality IF they could prove themselves capable of being an Edenite (one who is permitted to dwell in an Eden zone). As people became more ‘horrible’, Genesis then explains this life expectancy was reduced down to 120 years, with the death ages of all the males shown in the bible from 800+ years until it gradually reduced down to the 120 years – Moses died at this age.

    For most people death on Earth is meant to be mortal as we are all watched very closely, and very few are invited into Gods proper heaven, which is an Eden zone, where they can then eat from the Tree of Life as Edenites. Some are taken on this Tree of Life journey on Earth if they are known Edenites, as I have done. This is Kabbalah, but it is by invite only, not by paying a Kabbalah Centre money to teach you. The Archangel Michael, Christs and Moses oversee this for people on Earth. Those who die on Earth but are not Edenites, do not go to the real Heaven – you know this Neale, they go to the Afterlife instead of being mortal as they are meant to be, and end up in a screwed up cycle of reincarnation. They can never be an Edenite or get into the real God’s heaven as people have to prove themselves BEFORE they have existed for 120 years. Your God runs the Afterlife Neale, he is not the real God who runs Heaven. The only options for most people are constant reincarnation or mortality as they are well past 120 years BUT the latest holograms of reincarnated souls can still have a chance if they consciously choose right over wrong, and will then be separated from the reincarnated souls and become their own person.

    Greasing up or pleasing any God will not make a difference to anyone. You are either proven righteous before you have existed anywhere for 120 years, or are not. Yes God runs heaven but it does not make any difference if people are religious or not anymore. It did many years ago as only religious people had access to Law, others did not have systems with consequences so there was more wrong doing, and executions for ‘evil’ played a huge positive role in life as many were executed before they went on the breed offspring who carried the ‘evil’ gene. Likewise with the idiot gene; they used to kill themselves taking risks, now we save them.

    Earth is now in the age of consequences, which will then lead into Earth being declared an Eden once wrong do-ers and non Edenites cease to exist. Revelation explains this a bit. A world of no negativity, complete safety and no suffering, for the original Genesis curses will be in place a lot stronger than they are now. The consequences from wrong doing (primarily causing suffering and ignoring the plights of others), is banishment from an Eden – and on Earth the only way to leave is via death! Get where we are heading???????? This is why no-one from above is now helping with any life saving matters, no more angels on the wings of planes, no more miracle cures, no preventing murders or terrorist attacks. God and those above are not longer trying to save lives, they are hoping for them to be shortened as a part of operation clean up.

    Sorry if this is confusing, I studied all of this for years and it took a 200 page assignment before I had it all sussed and correct, the condensed version sounds a bit irrational, I know.

    Non edited sorry.

  • Rahinatu Adamu

    Let us stop trying to change the minds of people,let us show and share more love and that will make it happen!

    • mewabe

      First, we would have to find their mind in order to change it…millions do not seem to have one.

      So yes, unconditional love may work. Could we have loved Hitler and its Nazi butchers into peace? I am not sure…

  • Blake

    I saw a documentary call “Waiting for Armageddon” it’s interesting to see millions of people who call themselves Evangelical Christians keeping the United States in a perpetual
    state of war so that when the second coming of Jesus happens all real believers
    will be drawn up into the clouds to joyfully celebrate the end of days.



  • Blake

    On the other hand, I hope their faith is realized and everything happens exactly the way the Bible says it will.

    When your drawn up into the clouds, can I have all your car?


    • Kristen

      Sure – hope you don’t mind that my daughter drove straight into it with my other car she drives, so one has two hugely dented doors and the other needs a new bumper. Will you look after my cats too??

    • Erin

      LOL…Please donate all usable assets to my personal account in Switzerland. I solemnly swear to use your wealths toward giving richness back to this Earth place, so you can have a grander realm to return too. Thank you, in advance! 😀
      (Now let’s go shopping to redecorate Beingness!)
      Fun thought! 😀

  • mewabe

    Actually Blake, the rapture is a false doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830. It was not in the original Bible.
    Not that I care about the Bible one way or the other, but it is both amusing and sad to see people believe in old and new fairy tales.

    It is certainly extremely dangerous for the United States and the entire world to have these irrational fundamentalist and evangelical Christians infiltrate government and influence domestic and international policies, from environmental issues to the Middle East, as they do want to see global war and destruction to speed up what they believe will be the second coming.

    These are the nutcases who say that environmentalists and peace activists are working for the “devil”. They are so far gone that I am not sure anything can be done for them other than providing them with appropriate medications.

    Indeed the American Psychiatric Association comes up with new made up mental illnesses or conditions every year (such as oppositional defiant disorder), for which the drug industry is all to happy to create psychotropic medications at a huge profit, perhaps they can come up with a medical definition of religious fundamentalism, and proper treatment (aversion therapy?)

    • Gina

      I assume that Neale assumes fundamentalists cannot be de-converted, their effect can only be diluted by the larger number of them dying off and less and less of their offspring sharing their beliefs. It’s too time consuming and has too little of a return on the investment trying to change their mind. Rather, what is suggested is to form a so called critical mass out of the rational and nonreligious. This focused few with a clear conscience and the ability to think and feel are more powerful than billions of fundamentalists who are no different from addicts and/or automatons. Fundamental believers of capitalism and politics are likewise to be avoided. Only what we fear to be dangerous is dangerous. We can supposedly minimize their impact by making them a non issue in our mind, if I understand how the LOA works correctly. One should target the young and non fundamental as their audience. The older people get and the further into some theology they go, the more they cling to the existing belief system, because of compensatory mentality for their homage.

      • Kristen

        Oh dear, I’m old and beyond help. Oh well.


        • Kristen

          Great, and now Mewabe thinks I need drugs to cure my affliction, and he is anti drugs!.

          • mewabe

            Yeah, that’s telling you, ain’t it?
            No, I wouldn’t put you in the same bag as the fundies and others …unless you think I am the devil, that’s where I would draw the line.

          • Kristen

            Who upvoted Mewabes clinical drug recommendation?????

            Yup, you put an insane old woman with a mental old testament/God affliction, beyond help in her place! Heroism.

            I don’t mind being called a fundie – I like oddities on my CV. I’ll aim for mad cat woman and crazy hoarder when I’m older. You can be the devil if you want to, I am unaware of the existence of any entity with this identity so go for it, the roles vacant and yours for the taking. Grow a goatie, glue some icecream cones on your head, get a red spandex onesie and go for it. Inspiration for intuitive self portraits to put on cereal boxes????

      • mewabe

        My comment above was kind of tongue in cheek, about medications, as you know…

        I understand and I agree about the mass addiction to belief systems and lifestyles…I think that many different human non-violent approaches will be necessary, leaving the violence to the natural world, whose contribution might be the most critical and effective in the form of global natural disasters, to stop and change our world civilization.

        I do believe that all present movements, activist organizations, spiritual progressives, etc, could join forces to form some coalition to create a huge, consensus-ruled, egalitarian, cooperative, unstoppable force for good. But for this to happen, everyone would have to step out of the competitive ego identity momentarily and place the good of the world and of the future generation above all self-interest or personal glory considerations, which can be very difficult even for those whose ideals are high.

  • Blake

    Thanks to oil the population in the past 70 years has grown to 7 Billion people. When the oil gets to expensive to buy population figures will drastically decline because everything made has oil in it including our food and drugs.


    • mewabe

      Unfortunately, the oil may be replaced by natural gas (even to fuel cars), and the natural gas reserves of the US and of the world are huge. Our global civilization will not stop its rape of the earth or change its way of life anytime soon, the only hope to slow this global system down rests in the natural world, in global natural disasters.

      The earth itself must save us from our own insanity, I realistically do not see any other options.

      • Kristen

        Silly mood. Global Natural Disasters will sort everyone and everything out- it’s finally hit us in NZ. We had a major cyclone warning and civil defence warning last month – it was windy for a weekend and we had 1cm of rain. Tsunami warning last night – I think it was less than a metre high, lower than the rest of the waves anyway but of course half the country would head to the beach for a look if it was daytime. I can see three dormant volcanoes from my house – perhaps one of them may do a wee puff of smoke one year. It’s getting exciting!!

        The end is nigh!
        Off to dig me a basement, sick of waiting for Jesus and my cloud.

        • mewabe

          I am living next to an active volcano and on an earthquake fault, taking no chances…I want front row seats! And a tornado hit nearby, and it wasn’t my ex, so the signs are all here:
          look busy, Jesus is coming…

          • Kristen

            Yup, bring it on. My entire country is a huge faultline, we are formed by a big quake. Beat that!! Maybe I can send my ex to where you live. Assume your drought is over now?! Other than the 1cm cyclone of rain, we are currently having our first rain since late December. I’m pis..d, I like droughts and love barren ground rather than boring green everywhere. Dammit.

            Don’t need to look busy when Jesus is coming, I need to tell him how to do his job properly and make sure he isn’t corrupt on judgement day. And what pretty shape I want my cloud in.

          • mewabe

            I hear Australia has great areas of parched land…
            Seriously, the earth is going to kick some serious butt sooner or later. And between civilization and the earth, I hate to say it but I am on the earth’s side. I will be cheering along with the animals and some Indigenous people.
            A lot of people in Northern California already have their cloud, if you see what I mean (I don’t do this kind of thing, Jesus would not approve).

          • Kristen

            I’ll agree with it all, except there are more worthy people than just Indigenous people. Or do I have to shift to Israel to be indigenous in my early ancestors homeland??

            Yup, Oz has lots of parched land, its a desert continent. In fact when England was sending settlers there the advice was that it was pretty hostile as a whole, so not recommended which is why the English crims and prisioners got send to Oz, and the ‘normals’ to NZ. Long standing banter between our countries. They have constant droughts, storms, bushfires etc. All the fun stuff you and I love, but I’m from a country with no native animals, only birds and introduced farm and domestic animals so I am shirt scared of their scary spiders, crocs and especially snakes. And many Australians – they can be very odd and drink horrific beer. Lots of Walmart people!!! And the country with the worst carbon footprint after Dubai so it’s gonna get worse.

            I think Y’shua would be OK with weed, it’s obviously legal under Universal Law – I checked. But controlled as fortnightly and not around kids or outside of private homes, alcohol rations are three per person per session to a max of one per person per day total.

      • I’m quite suspicious that there are low to no cost clean energy solutions that are being well hidden by giant corporations & government. Even if this is true, our growing surveillance society along with social media (the peoples media), watchdog groups, will eventually expose this.

        Or, someone well put out for free how to do this on the internet. Think about it stranger things have happen. In the mean time:

        We visualize & be the change in ourselves & model this to the world.

        It appears very imperfect at times from our often smaller vantage point, but we can with love, compassion, creativity & grit, smooth the edges of a rigid old order & break into a creative spiritual renaissance awaiting our continued awakening & enlightenment.

        • Kristen

          You would find a magazine Uncensored very interesting Marko, it’s online as well as hard copy three monthly. Its American but published and distributed from NZ – the name of it makes it clear why. They expose a lot, especially about alternative fuels etc.

          • And the name of it it?

          • Gina

            Hahaha…. I guess she just said, the name of the magazine is Uncensored. There’s a online subscription too on the web site. It looks pretty interesting. Thanks, Kristen.

          • Kristen

            Ta. Sometimes I don’t know if the submitters or those they are writing about are loopier! Great for general knowledge, I’ve bought them all for probably the past 5 years.


          • Kristen

            Correct. I note my discus alert just showed “and the name of it” – that would be a bit thick! Not allowed to put sites in here but it’s pretty easy to find googling Uncensored magazine NZ. My copies have been round many people, at the moment with some customers – she recovering from 2nd bout of breast cancer and he was sitting online all night fascinated with conspiracies driving her nuts with an online addiction. Both love it and she especially has found the medical section very helpful.

    • Kristen

      NZ hasn’t even started into our oil yet, quite a few countries are choosing not to at this point, until desperate Americans will pay a fortune and do all the dirty work for us. American companies are constantly here in NZ snooping and doing tests for best locations for both oil and gas, another dozen exploratory permits have just been issued. I assume its NZ being sneaky and letting them pay to tell us where our reserves are for when we need them for ourselves! Smart!

      Oil will be like cigarettes – people say they have a financial limit but just adapt or cut back. Petrol here is around $2-50USD a litre and has been for a couple of years.I have noticed for the past ten years ago that petrol, milk, decent juice and soft drinks, ie most liquids are always the same price as each other per litre. I wonder if this is the same in most countries, I know it is in Australia?? If so, sounds like a conspiracy of price fixings to me.

  • Victor

    Yes, I agree very, very much that for changing current human culture and behavior, we have to change the God´s old story.

    But in the years I´ve studied around this subject, there´s a huge doubt that arises all the time:

    Everyone has the right to think as he/she thinks, so how can I interfere?

    In other words, everyone believes in what he/she believes, or in the way he/she´s been teached/indoctrinated, and that is for a ´good´ reason -and even, a sacred reason-, so, though I think that certain beliefs are dysfunctional and not serve humanity nor individual lifes, how can I dare to, not impose, but even, expose, or propose my view, as ´another way´, if those beliefs include that THERE IS NO OTHER way…? So, even talking about this would be a lack of respect for others…?

    So, not easy stuff…

    I guess that the only thing we can do -as far as I can see- is to offer our view to those that are ALREADY open to hear them, or at least, beginning to be open to start a dialog.

    Not that I am certain nor right about everything about God, but I´m pretty sure indeed in what God is not.

    But talking about numbers, it seems to be that we´re just beginning. If we see religion´s stats, we could see that we are a huge minority yet.

    Ok, always growing, I think that´s true too…

    Perhaps in one hundred years more, we might the job get done…

    Unless it wasn´t so…

    Unless we have some sort of catalizing events.

  • mewabe

    I think we need to make a distinction here. It is certainly very true that people use these diverse scriptures and beliefs in a judgmental and punishing deity as a VALIDATION for their violence towards one another.

    But it is not necessarily true that these scriptures and beliefs are the CAUSE of this violence. Humanity appears to be inherently violent, just as chimpanzees are violent, and go to war against other tribes of chimpanzees and rip each other apart, on occasion. VALIDATION is not CAUSE, it is used for self-righteousness and to ease one’s conscience.

    The Chinese army that invaded Tibet and killed one million Tibetans, raping nuns and forcing Tibetan children to shoot their own parents for entertainment did not believe in any deity. They used what they believed to be a SUPERIOR IDEOLOGY as a VALIDATION for their VIOLENCE.

    People who eat meat and condone the barbaric, sadistic treatment of animals in factory farms and slaughterhouse use as validation the belief that these animals have no feelings, as do scientists who engage in sadistic experiments on laboratory animals.

    It seems much more likely to me, given the violent, brutal. unfeeling nature of much of humanity, that a belief in a judgmental, condemning deity was born of a MENTAL PROJECTION of this violent nature in humans.

    In other words humanity imagined a deity that was just the same as it was: “my way or the highway (to hell)”.

    So we may rid humanity of its ridiculous beliefs, but not of it murderous NATURE. For this, I am afraid we will have to DIG DIPPER into the human psyche.

    • Erin

      Soul Sounds a-singin’ here, mewabe! 😀
      Funny, I have yet to hear much ado about how the Matriarchy was over-thrown for ‘this way’, but it was! A whole paradigm shifted. And still seems the US does not like to discuss the paradigm shift of here, either…the over-throw of ‘Native ways’ for ‘this way’. Both accomplished with atrocious violences, & in quick-time, to boot!

      Man-kind…primitive still of vast history, unfeeling with so many senses, intelligence of knowledge with little Wisdom…2 heads yet still thinking with the smaller one. Universal comic relief at best…unceasing scientific input at most.

      Crazy kind o’ peeps, indeed! 🙂

      • mewabe

        Thank you Erin…yes, the problem with patriarchy is seldom mentioned.
        Most people think that matriarchy means dominance as well, by women, because they cannot even imagine that life could be lived without the use of dominance and coercion. So they think that matriarchy and patriarchy are the same, that they are about dominance, by either men or women.

        I am not sure that it is a matter of being primitive….it looks primitive, but the problem may be that certain things are not used…like the heart, the soul. It may be that the only thing that is being used is the left brain, and very little else.

    • Victor

      “It seems much more likely to me, given the violent, brutal, mostly
      UNFEELING nature of much of humanity, that a belief in a judgmental,
      condemning deity was born of a MENTAL PROJECTION of this violent nature.”

      Yes, I think there is some sort of quid pro quo, or dialectic thing here: violent, brutal men created violent, brutal gods, that validated and in some way created, or arised, perpetuated, sacralized, spread, and deepened, violent, brutal cultures and behaviors in most of humanity.

      What was first? As the hen and egg analogy, I don´t know. Both arised together. But, yes, I agree that the most formidable way of validating this culture, was to create the greatest symbol of violence of all: GOD.

      Perhaps some things in nature are violent and brutal too, but in other ways. Not as in the horripilant and nonsense ways that humans use violence. So, we have ´added value´ here.

      But I would like to add what I think a very important observation here. Many researchers affirm that violence is not really our very true nature, and is not really in ´superior´ mammals such chimpances, gorillas, etc.

      I would reccomend the remarcable works of Ashley Montagu about this subject.

      • mewabe

        Thanks for the comment Victor…
        From my long above tirade, I will just repeat that which I think is the most important…perhaps it will help clarify my point better:

        A FEELING person, NO MATTER HIS OR HER BELIEFS, and if I could write this in bold letters I would because it is crucial, NO MATTER THE
        BELIEFS, could not kill, torture, persecute, oppress or otherwise hurt
        another human or sentient being willfully, BECAUSE HE OR SHE WOULD FEEL THE PAIN HE OR SHE WOULD CAUSE THE OTHER.

        THIS IS CALLED EMPATHY, but it is simply FEELING, it is being a FULLY feeling person.

        When you ACTUALLY FEEL FULLY, you do not look at the suffering of the world and think “these people over there are committing these atrocious acts because they believe in the wrong ideas.”
        No, you know IMMEDIATELY and without any confusion whatsoever that the problem in ALLcases when a person or a group willfully hurts another, regardless of the nature of beliefs, is A DEFICIENCY IN THE ABILITY TO FEEL, to have EMPATHY. When you actually FEEL, this truth becomes CRYSTAL CLEAR.

        From my experience and understanding, ideas, beliefs, are not the problem or the cause…they are merely symptoms. The pathology is a lack of feeling, or empathy.

        This lack of feeling or empathy is not normal.

        • Christopher Toft

          “When you ACTUALLY FEEL FULLY, you do not look at the suffering of the world and think “these people over there are committing these atrocious acts because they believe in the wrong ideas.”
          No, you know IMMEDIATELY and without any confusion whatsoever that the problem in ALL cases when a person or a group willfully hurts another, regardless of the nature of beliefs, is A DEFICIENCY IN THE ABILITY TO FEEL, to have EMPATHY. When you actually FEEL, this truth becomes CRYSTAL CLEAR.”
          Mewabe, does it have to be either/or? From my perspective, a lack of empathy is a direct result of distorted ideas and thinking and distorted ideas and thinking result in a lack of empathy, which results in distorted ideas and thinking..You get the point.

          • mewabe

            I appreciate your comment Christopher, obviously we disagree, and I have no reason to try to convince you to think or feel any differently than you do.

            As far as your personal analysis of my state of mind, it seems that I have triggered something in you, and you may want to feel what that is (pardon me…I meant think what that is). Honestly, you see anger where there is none, so that may be what is called a projection.

          • Christopher Toft

            I’m not sure we do disagree on any real fundamental level. I think it’s just a semantics thing. There is widespread fear of feeling which is also a widespread fear of thinking. 🙂

  • Erin

    You Guys are funny!

    Let’s put on our World Leader shoes & sit in our seats at the Round Table…”What shall We move today, and by what means, & in which direction, shall We move it?”

    We have whatever We desire, at any given moment…ANYTHING! There is No Fear of this ever not being ‘This Way’. We are sitting in a huge room of others of same giftedness. We are part of a management team who’s ONLY business is running a planet & It’s resources. We are each a CEO of Life here. You are one of Earth’s Gods/Goddesses.

    Given that scenario…Now, how are You thinking? Whatcha gonna DO today? You already Have what it takes to Be this, so what does one Do to make stuff interesting? What movement shall We endorse & play with? Hmmm…???

    Seems to me that if one thinks like a mover of stuff, one Can move stuff…including ways of thinking, No?
    Food for thought…:)

  • politics